Sports Gambling Scandal, World Series Preview and NBA Season Outlook

Thad and Ryan react to the massive NBA gambling scandal that’s shaking the league, discuss how they’d handle it as GMs, and unpack the bigger implications for pro sports. Then, a World Series position-by-position breakdown and full NBA season preview.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to rosters, to rings everyone. I am Ryan mcdonod,
joined as always by fad Levigne.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Thad.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is a busy time of year across sports. We
now know the World Series matchup. The LA Dodgers will
be playing the Toronto Blue Jays in the World Series
that starts on Friday night. It is opening week in
the NBA, NFL, and college football are in full swing
approaching the middle of their respective seasonstad But where I
want to start this show with you is a listener question,

(00:33):
and this is from DJ and Sacramento, California, and that
he's looking at the San Francisco Giants and their situation
out there. Buster Posey is running the front office now.
And his question that is, it looks like the San
Diego San Francisco Giants may hire Tennessee manager Tony Vittello
as their manager.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
How unusual would.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
It be for a Major League Baseball team to hire
a college manager to run their club? And have there
been any other untraditional hires in Major League Baseball that
would be comparable to the Giants potentially Hiringvtello.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Hey, Ryan, before we get into that, I think we
have to give credit where it's due. I believe there
was somebody on the show who, when the Toronto Blue
Jays were down to nothing, called that they were going
to win this series. Do you recall that at all?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I do. That was me.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
I lead off every dinner conversation with my wife and
kids referencing that they have no idea what I'm talking about.
But yeah, I said at the time, you could probably
make a lot of money if you bet that when
the Blue Jays were down two to Seattle. Unfortunately I
did not bet that. But what a game George Springer's
three run home run. Really happy for the people in Toronto,
the Blue Jays fans, and really devastated. But for the

(01:40):
fans in Seattle. I know you've talked about They've been
waiting for this a long time. This is closer than
they've ever been to the World Series and they were
right on the precipice on Monday night. They just couldn't
get over the hump and seal the deal.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
What a tremendous season for both teams. The stars shined
in this series. Who was something tremendous for the fans.
Hopefully this is a precursor of what we'll see in
the world. He's starting on Friday. But to get back
to DJ from Sacramento's question, so little homework on Tony Vtello.
You know, he has been the head coach of the
Tennessee Volunteers since twenty seventeen. He joined. The first season

(02:15):
was twenty eighteen, and he's really transformed that program from
what had been a doormat of the SEC to being
one of the prominent programs across all of the NCAA.
In his tenure, the team has won seventy two percent
of their games, which is truly remarkable playing in what
is the best conference in the nation. They've appeared in

(02:35):
three College World Series, winning in twenty twenty four. He's
won the National Coach of the Year multiple times.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
When I talked to Jase Tangler, the bench coach of
the Minnesota Twins, also a former teammate of Tony's at
University of Missouri, he said he's known for being exceptionally competitive, energetic, positive,
hard worker, and an excellent communicator. Scouts like Sean Johnson,
of the assistant GM and scouting director for the Minnesota
Twins say he's regarded as the best recruiter and motivator

(03:06):
almost across all college coaches. His father's a Hall of
Fame high school coach both in baseball and soccer in Missouri,
and something of note. You know, djted it up that
this would be the first time somebody ever goes straight
from college to the pros. But one thing to note
is since twenty twenty, forty five players have been selected

(03:28):
out of the University of Tennessee to play in Minor
League Baseball and ultimately Major League Baseball. That's the most
in the country. So you could argue he's been coaching
pro players for quite some time and it won't be
that big of a transition for him. But other things
that the listeners should know about him is since they
won the World Series in twenty twenty four, Tony signed

(03:48):
an extension through twenty twenty nine that pays him approximately
three million dollars per season, making him the second highest
paid coach in Division One, and as we've discussed in
previous shows, that actually would put him towards the top
tier of major league managers. In addition to that, the
Giants would have to deal with something that no pro
team in Major League Baseball has had to deal with,
which is that he also has a three million dollar biot,

(04:11):
which presumably would have to be paid by the San
Francisco Giants. Layer that on top of the fact that
the Giants are also paying former manager Bob Melvin at
least four million dollars for next year as well. So
that's kind of the level set of the opportunity that
could be presented to Tony and also some of the
background that goes into the decision that Giants have to make.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
And one of the interesting aspects of this that I'd
love to get your take on is the man making
the decision, Buster Posey, in conjunction with the San Francisco
Giants ownership group. Buster Posey was a untraditional hire. We
know his background as a player, one of the great
catchers in recent Major League Baseball history. Looks like he's
headed to the Hall of Fame someday. I believe he's

(04:52):
also a part owner. I think he has a small
equity stake in the San Francisco Giants. So he was
an unusual higher thad to run a front office. I
believe he was promote voted from within and now he's
a big part of this decision, maybe the key decision
maker in this thad. What aspects of that do you
think are a little bit unusual and unique? And its
POSI one of the you guys in Major League Baseball
who may have the confidence to pull off what you

(05:13):
just said, going after a college manager, which historically hasn't
been done, and encouraging his ownership group to pay a
buyout to the University of Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Well, Ran, I think he nailed it. I think all
those facts are central to this decision that ultimately Buster
will have to make. And let's later on. Something else
that we learned from Jeff Barry in our episode with
him longtime agent and friend and now advisor to Buster Posey,
is that he says Buster is really viewing winning and
entertaining his fans as its northstar, and his action since
he's been hired has certainly supported that. So about two

(05:45):
months into his hire, he ended up signing Willie Domas
to a seven year, one hundred and eighty two million
dollars deal. Those were franchise records for the San Francisco Giants. Furthermore,
than the middle of the season, he acquires Raphael Devers
and what proved to be the biggest trade of this
season in Major League Baseball, he acquired not only an
All Star player, but his two hundred and fifty million
dollars left on his contract. So but I would still

(06:08):
say if he hires Tony Vittello, this would be the
first thing he's done, which is a first, which is
bringing a guy straight from the college ranks to the
major league ranks. And you really illuminated it there, Ryan, like,
why would he be willing to act so boldly? Well,
I mean, he's not only the president of the team,
but he's a three time World Series champion for the
San Francisco Giants. He's undoubtedly going to be a first

(06:30):
ballot Hall of Famer in twenty twenty seven when he's
eligible to go into the Hall of Fame. And as
you reference, he's a part owner of the Giants. I
would think all those things combined to say he's willing
to take on a little bit more risk, be a
little bit more of a pioneer than maybe the rest
of us would who don't have quite the same level
of security that Buster Posey does.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's a great point that we've talked about it before
on the show. The balance of doing what's best for
the franchise and taking care of your family, staying and employed,
keeping the paychecks coming. Buster Posey does not have to
worry about that. That's how well he's done as a
player and financially, as evidence by not only his career earnings,
but the ownership equity has in the San Francisco Giants

(07:08):
as well. So that are there any other examples, putting
maybe the Giants aside, and Vitello and Posey aside, what
are some of the other untraditional hires that Major League
Baseball teams have made over the past couple decades and
how do you think those hires have ended up working
out well?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Right?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
The first one I'd like to bring up, we'ved into
a past episode we had with aj Hinch in two
thousand and nine. Josh Burns was the general manager of
the Arizona Diamondbacks and he paved the way by hiring
aj Hinch as the first manager with no managerial experience
at all. But now, hiring managers with no managerial experience
is kind of a blueprint for success. Think of Rocobal
Deli and Minnesota, and Kevin Cash in Tampa Bay Kit

(07:47):
and Steven Vote in Cleveland, just to name a few.
And then the headlines this offseason have been riddled with
the thought that Albert Poohols and Tory Hunter are both
interviewing from multiple open managerial positions and very well may
get hired as former players who never have managed as
well some kind of wild ones. In two thousand and one,
the Arizona Diamondbacks hired Bob Brenley to be their manager. Well.

(08:10):
He came straight out of Fox's broadcast booth to the
managerial seat at that time and actually did quite well
in the role. In twenty eighteen, when I was with
the Minnesota Twins, we hired Wes Johnson to be our
major league pitching coach. He came straight from the University
of Arkansas. He was one of, if not the first
major league coach to make the leap from the collegiate

(08:31):
ranks directly to the major leagues, and he went on
to have a lot of success with the Twins and
now he's the head coach of the University of Georgia.
Tampa Bay blazed a trail by hiring Andrew Friedman and
to a certain extent, Matt Silverman as well. Andrew Friedman
was hired by them in two thousand and four straight
out of Wall Street. His background was Bear Stearn's mid
Mark Capitol and then everyone knows how much success he's

(08:53):
had as the general manager of the Tampa Bay Rays
and now the Los Angeles Dodgers. A few more just
to throw your way tooenty eighteen, the New York Mets
hired Brody van Wagen and the first guy to come
straight from being an agent to being a president of
baseball operations. He joined the Mets straight out of CIA,
which is one of the most prodigious sports agencies that

(09:13):
there is, where he was a partner and then lastly
kind of a fun one. In twenty twenty one, the
Anaheim Angels hired Perry Manesian to be their general manager. Well,
Perry's had an illustrious career, but where he got to
start was he was a batboy for the Texas Rangers,
ultimately working in their clubhouse with his father, Zach Manesian.
He climbed the ranks there, went on to be a

(09:34):
very successful executive in both Toronto and Atlanta before becoming
a general manager. Ryan, how about you on the NBA side,
what were some of the more out of the box
hires that you've experienced a witness?

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah, decent amount of similarities to Major League Baseball. I
would say the thing that's been done more certainly in
the NBA going back decades now, that is hiring head
coaches out of college. We could go back to Lon Krueger,
Leonard Hamilton, Rick Patino, John Klapari. You know, I could
go on, but that's been done in the NBA with
mixed results for a number of decades now, but more recently,

(10:07):
I'll give you a couple in the last handful of years.
You mentioned guys coming out of the broadcast booth in
the NBA. That's been Steve Nash as head coach of
the Brooklyn Nets, Jj Reddick most recently as head coach
of the LA Lakers. Reddick nor Nash neither one of
them had any coaching experience at all, that at lower
levels as an assistant coach. This is their first coaching experience. Obviously,

(10:28):
both guys have a ton of NBA experience. They grew
up around the games and had long and illustrious careers,
in Nash's case, a Hall of Fame career, but they
didn't have any coaching experience, so that was a leap
of faith in the front office. There are a couple
of different examples David Kahn. He was a former writer.
I believe he owned some minor league baseball teams as well.
He was hired to run the Minnesota Timberwolves. He gets

(10:49):
blamed fairly or not for drafting Ricky Rubio and Johnny
Flynn over steph Curry in. A guy that I worked
with in Boston way back now, going back a couple
decades that who's done pretty well is Daryl Morey running
the Houston Rockets now the Philadelphia seventy six ers. He
worked in the Celtics business offices. When I worked for
the Boston Celtics, there were two different offices. The business

(11:11):
offices were in downtown Boston right by the TV Garden,
and the basketball offices where the team was was out
in the western suburbs and the town Waltham. Well, Daryl
worked in the business offices. So talking about hiring a
guy who's not around the team, he did his status model,
and that's got him some recognition. He was a pioneer
in that regard. But it wasn't a traditional hire, certainly
when Les Alexander, the owner of the Rockets at the time,

(11:33):
hired him as kind of a GM and waiting and
then promoted him a year later. A few other example STAD,
the Dallas Mavericks hired Bob Valgarris, who was a sports
Better an expert sports Better reportedly made a lot of
money betting on games. They hired him in twenty eighteen
as their director of Research and Quantitative Development. Sticking with
the Mavericks, Nico Harrison, the much malign Nico Harrison who

(11:55):
had his team in the finals about a year and
a half ago in the NBA and then was vilified
last year for the Luka Dansis trade. He was a
longtime Nike executive who was hired by Mark Cuban to
be the MAVs GM. And then the group that's probably
had the most success STAD you referenced relative to Major
League Baseball, the former player agents. Bob Myers won four
championships with the Golden State Warriors, Rob Polenka won one

(12:17):
in twenty twenty in the Orlando Bubble with the LA Lakers,
and Leon Rose has the Knicks right there in the
Eastern Conference finals. Those three guys had a lot of success,
had big time clients and made a lot of money
as agents. And then a few across sports STAD that
I thought we're interested in one touches your world as well.
In Major League Baseball. Sashi Brown former Cleveland Browns executive.

(12:39):
He became one of the top execs for the Washington
Wizards in twenty nineteen when they had a bit of
an unusual front office structure. And then that guy, I imagine,
you know, Paul the Dee Podesta, longtime Major League Baseball executive,
got a lot of attention and accolades at a young
age for what he did in MLB and money bit
ball and all that. Now he's the chief strategy officer
for the Cleveland Browns.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, I just have to make a few comments about
the guys you referenced, right. I don't know if this
is right or wrong, but Darryl Morey has given a
lot of credit for revolutionizing analytics and baseball as well.
I know he accomplished so much. But one of the
things that is central to all of our draft models
now is the concept that we're more aware of the
older college kid and how they perform. And I think

(13:21):
that was something that Darryl claims to have uncovered when
he was building championship teams. And then with regards to Paul,
Paul and I grew up in the same neighborhood, a
really good friend, exceptionally dynamic person. But also he was
a guy who we played high school baseball against each other,
and he happened to intentionally walk the three hole hitter
ahead of me, and I may or may not have

(13:41):
hit a grand slam off at some point. We may
have him on to defend that point, but that's my
recollection of the event.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, there's probably no film right unless we go back
and get grainy VHS tapes, maybe eight tracks.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I don't know if that.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
I'm not trying to date you at all, but that
was ancient history at this point. With that, we had
planned on in segment two doing a World Series preview
and in NBA season preview. We are still going to
do both of those things after the break, but stick
with us because coming back, we have breaking news that
is dominating the sports landscape on Thursday morning. It impacts

(14:15):
the NBA, it impacts players, coaches, some of the biggest
names in basketball. There are crossovers to Major League Baseball
as well. After the break, we're going to get into
all of that and more right here on Rosters the Ring.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Welcome back to Rosters to rings as always alongside Ryan McDonough.
I am Thad Levine. Ryan, you said it. The World
Series is on the docket, so too is the NBA season.
But there's breaking news. What can you tell us about
the arrests of Terry Rogier and Chauncey Billups.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Surprising news in the NBA fad breaking early Thursday morning.
Keep in mind that the NBA ri season just tipped
off with two games on Tuesday night, and then just
about everybody else in the league who did not play
Tuesday played Wednesday night. And then that we wake up
the news early Thursday morning that current and former NBA
players and coaches Chauncey Billups, who is the current head

(15:15):
coach of the Portland Trailblazers, a Hall of Famer. You
remember him as a player from the Detroit Pistons and
other NBA clubs. Terry Rozier, a current player on the
Miami Heat. Damon Jones, a former player and assistant coach,
a longtime teammate of Lebron James. All three of those
guys have been arrested. That this was tied into an
illegal gambling and sports rigging operation that allegedly spanned a

(15:38):
number of years across eleven states, and it's serious. The
FBI is involved. In total, thirty individuals have been arrested,
and the FBI is said that thirteen of those individuals
are members of the mafia. So this is now getting
beyond sports. They're alleging that the case involves La Coosa Nostra,

(15:59):
which is the Italian and charges are being brought including
illegal gambling, wire fraud, and extortion. So it's complicated that
and this is breaking news. It's just continuing to break
as we come on air. The most recent development as
we record this midday on the East Coast on Thursday,
is that the two individuals currently associated with NBA teams,

(16:22):
Chauncey Billups, the head coach of the Portland Trailblazers and
Terry Rozier, the guard for the Miami Heat, longtime NBA player.
That both of those guys have been suspended immediately or
placed on leave is the way the NBA put it,
but that this is a huge story. We're just learning
more about it as we go. But this is something
that you and I have talked about off air that
transcends sports, and frankly, this is what the league was

(16:45):
scared of. I think when they opened up Pandora's box
in these sports leagues and brought in fan duel and
DraftKings and all these sports betting partners, which are a
significant revenue stream and enjoyable hobby for a lot of
folks who follow these things closely. The concern was, well,
what if it impacts play on the field or the court.
And unfortunately that this isn't US, you know, making allegations

(17:07):
or accusations. This is the FBI who usually when they come,
they come with heart evidence. They're saying, yeah, this involves
multiple current and former NBA players and coaches, and that
I think with this news breaking on Thursday, we're just
starting to see the tip of the iceberg, you.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Know, Ryan and I I think the listener may benefit
from hearing from us as to as general managers. How
would we handle this news if we were working currently
for the Miami Heat or Portland Trailer Blazers. And I
would just say from our perspective, we always basically would
comply with all the league officials they're conducting. They usually
are conducting an investigation and coordination within this case the FBI,

(17:46):
we kind of step back, We provide all the information
we possibly can, we try to aid as best we can,
but mostly we're getting out of the way. There's no
judgment that we are levying in the short term. We're
working alongside the league until all the facts are ascertained.
Once they're ascertained, usually you work in coordination with the
league to understand what the discipline, if any, is going
to be, and then what the team wants to do

(18:07):
on top of that. But do you what was your
experience if any was something like this? And then the
other question I'd ask you as an NBA executive is
one other player who's kind of embroiled in this, but
kind of more tangentially is Malik Beasley. He's still a
free agent. So not only how would you handle this
as the GM of the Portland Trail Blazers or the
Miami Heat, but as a perspective GM who may be

(18:29):
looking at Malik Beasley and saying he could really help
our team, but there's some transgressions that maybe heat or
overhanging his head right now there yet to be resolved.
How do you handle those two situations?

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, great question, Thad, because it's a very complicated and
nuanced situation, and I think it's important for our listeners
to realize they're going to be two different investigations. One
that the NBA or Major League Baseball or whatever league
conducts in this case the NBA, but there's also the
federal one led by the FBI or whomever, that is
obviously a lot more intensive, a lot more rigorous. They

(19:02):
have a lot of time and resources, and this is
what they do, right, this is their wheelhouse, whether it's
you know, stock rigging, insider trading, things like that, they're
they're well equipped to handle all of this. I would
say the league's Frankly thad less so right that the
NBA in Major League Baseball, they want to preserve the
integrity of the game and they do everything with in

(19:23):
their power to make sure that happens. But there are
limits to what they can and can't do in terms
of time, resources, and kind of the wherewithal to be
able to do it. So I bring that up relative
to you know, Malik Beasley and Terry Rozier, the two
players current players who have been involved in some of
the sports betting scandal, either today or over the last
few months. And the Beasilely case is interesting that because

(19:45):
one of the things the thirty NBA teams have been
trying to figure out is okay, the league has said,
you know, we're not doing anything that would prevent you
from signing him, but the government is putting out there,
if not publicly, then at least privately from people I've
talked to. Well, we haven't fully cleared him yet. He's
not exonerated yet, and so the question becomes on the
team side, do we want to be the one of

(20:06):
thirty teams to take the risk and hope that it
works out? Okay, hope that whatever allegations are made against
Malik Beasley, who had a terrific year shooting the ball
for the Detroit Pistons last season. He was a big
part of their success. And that's where, frankly, that the
timing for the individual in that case, Malik Beasley couldn't
have been worse because he was approaching unrestricted free agency

(20:27):
about to get paid a lot of money. And if
I remember correctly, it was just days before free agency started.
This all broke, and now we're sitting here in late October,
the NBA seasons underway, and he's still unsign I mean,
he would have signed for tens of millions of dollars guaranteed.
Now he's sitting on his couch waiting for a team
to call. So that's how it impacts individual players. But

(20:47):
the bigger question here is the integrity of the game,
you know, and are there people and this is a
scary thing to meet that I'd love to get your
take on it as well. But I think even the
more frightening thing beyond did somebody say get you know,
caught up with a sports betting site and owe too
much money and get themselves in a hole? Well, the

(21:08):
bigger concern I have this morning seeing the FBI saying
the Italian mafia is involved, is are there you know,
mob bosses and people with influence and power exerting control
and putting pressure on people playing in these games to
make sure a certain thing happens, either you know, prop
bet is hit or even a result you know, and

(21:29):
that leads into question the integrity of the game. That
and and that's the thing that I think these leagues
are most concerned about the integrity of the game. And
I don't think it got as much attention that they
certainly not as this scandal. But there was, you know,
an issue in Major League Baseball. I believe it involved
the Cleveland Indians. If you could bring us and our
listeners up to speed on Cleveland what happened with the

(21:50):
Indians and how that went in the middle of Major
League Baseball season.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Absolutely, and Ryan, I think it's it stems directly from
what you just said. The integrity of the game was
in questions. So as you mentioned earlier, sports books are
becoming such embroiled with professional sports teams. They're sponsors. You know,
two sponsors of the Cleveland Guardians right now is bet
three sixty five and Fanatic sports book. And to the
two pitchers in question that you reference to Manuel class

(22:16):
they're exceptionally gifted closer Luis Ortiz, a middle reliever. Believe
it or not, we're accused of singular pitches in the
course of games in which there was quote unusual betting
behavior around those specific pitches. Happened in July for both
players or teas get suspended in July. Third Manuel Class

(22:36):
A on July twenty eighth, and they're still on non
disciplinary paid leave as the league has start continuing to
do an investigation. But in sports right now, there's entities
out there in baseball. One of them is called the
Integrity Firm IC three sixty. That is singularly looking at
all of these bets and trying to understand when there's
unusual amounts of bets placed on very unique things. So

(22:59):
in these guys cases, there was a specific pitch in
a specific inning in which there was an unusual amount
of bets that it would be a ball or that
it would be a slider in the ball, and the
pitchers in each of those cases delivered against those and
a lot of money changed hands. So that's a significant
issue there that I think will have to be resolved.
And keep in mind, from twenty twenty two to twenty

(23:20):
twenty four, Emmanuel class A was by and large the
best reliever in Major League Baseball. He had thirty more
saves than the next highest guy, which is almost a
full seasons worth of saves. He led the major leagues
in war accumulated by relievers, and now he has suspended
potentially indefinitely. That's going to be very harmful for the
Cleveland Guardians. The other thing I just want to add

(23:41):
to this conversation is the integrity of the sport is
certainly at hand, but what we're hearing in baseball now
is that individuals are starting to receive death threats based
upon a poor performance. And you know, we know how
big fantasy sports are and betting on sports are. You know,
the concern I have is, in addition to the entire
this sport being held accountable here, it's also the fact

(24:03):
that fans, individual fans now feel that it's okay to
reach out to professional athletes through social media or otherwise
and actually levy death threats against them or bodily harm
or concerned about their children based upon the fact that
they didn't throw an extra pass in a game, or
make an extra shot, or hit an extra base hit
in a game. That to me is pretty frightening and

(24:25):
it's something that I'm sure these leagues are massively concerned about.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
It is that, and it should be.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
And I'll give you one example of this goes back
about twenty years now. But when I was a young
guy in the Celtics front office, we brought in Chris Duhan,
a guard from Duke, for a workout. And I think
if anybody remembers from a couple of decades ago, but
I believe it was in the final fourth that it
was definitely in the NCAA tournament. I think it was
the final four. Duke was losing a game they were

(24:53):
going to lose. The final seconds were ticking down. I
think they were down four and Chris Duhan threw up
a half court shot. So instead of losing by four,
I think Duke lost by one if I remember correctly.
But either way, it flipped the line from one direction right,
it flipped. It didn't had no material impact on who
won the game, but it flipped the line in the
other direction. And dou Hans said he heard from all

(25:15):
kinds of people. You know, guys, what are you doing?
Why didn't you dribble out the clock? And you know,
didn't you know? He said, well, no, of course not.
I had no idea. I was hoping, if if my
memory is correct, we were down four and maybe somebody
follows me and I tie the game if the three
pointer goes in, or you know, just playing sports growing up,
you do everything you can till the final buzzer goes
off to give your team a chance to win. So
that's going back twenty years now. What the league is

(25:38):
concerned about now that and this is why today's announcement
was a real eye opener. I think for a lot
of people with the league always thought and I always
thought the folks who were most susceptible to this were
the people on the fringes the periphery of the NBA.
A couple of years ago, John Tay Porter, who's best
known as Michael Porter Junior's younger brother, he was, you know,

(25:59):
in indicted or threatened to participate in a sports gambling
scheme because of his gambling debts, and the way he
did that that was making sure he hit the unders
on his prop bets. You know, these sports books have
bets for points, rebounds, assists in the NBA, maybe a
few other categories as well. And so what players were doing,
and this is what the FBI on a bigger scale

(26:21):
is accusing Terry Rozier of doing in a game on
March twenty third, twenty twenty three, is making sure the
unders hit and the books flag these things and track
these things that and so I think that's something that
I wish the athletes were more aware of. Frankly, I
hate to say it that way, but you know, there's
sophisticate that the betting companies in particular have sophisticated technology

(26:42):
that monitor all the action and if anything comes unusual,
it sets off flags and alarms and then they go
investigate and look at it further, especially if the sports
book is liable, you know, to pay out a big
handle on one side or the other because actions flooded.
So why in the world, you think of it logically that,
why in the world would so many people loading up
the under on a two way player on the Toronto

(27:03):
Raptors named John day Porter. You know, however, many multiples
above what is usually bet on John day Porter's over run,
you know, so that sets off an alarm and then
they go investigate.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
And that's what.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Terry Rozier is being accused of as well, and that
I want to get your take on it, but it's
scary to me because to me, those are pretty different things,
even though we're talking about players in the same league.
I always thought that it was likely that a player
like John day Porter who's not made a lot of
money is probably not going to make a lot of
money playing basketball. You would get in, you know, debt
to the wrong people, or fall on hard times and

(27:36):
do something drastic, and frankly, it wasn't you know, as
big as yes, in the NBA was a big story,
but I don't think nationally it was as big of
a story.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Outside the NBA.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Today's news is different because you're talking about two guys
in Chauncey Billips, who is the current head coach or
the Portland Trailblazers, who made around one hundred million dollars
in his NBA career and recently get put in the
Hall of Fame as a player. And then Terry Rozier,
who has not played as well in Miami, but played
very well to start his career with the Boston Celtics
and then the Charlotte Hornets. The Miami Heat gave up

(28:08):
a first round pick to get him of that He's
made around one hundred million dollars as well.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
So if those guys, the guys.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Making nine figures guaranteed and NBA career contracts are susceptible
to falling in you know, the traps of sports betters
and mafia members, it's really concerning for the NBA Thad
And that brings us back to what you said earlier.
I think there's a lot of angs right now, not
only at the league office in the NBA, but across
Major League Baseball, the NFL, and the other sports as well.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
And you know, Ryan, as we transition into talking about
the World Series and the opening of the NBA season,
the leagues are having to deal with this right now.
So this is still a story in Major League Baseball
about Emmanuel class A because the Cleveland Guardians just dedined
him permission to go pitch in Venezuela this summer. I
mean this winner. So this is the story again on
the eve of the World Series starting. The NBA is

(28:56):
starting what should be a prolific season for them, and
this is this story day two of the season opening.
This is disastrous for these leagues. They do not want
to be having to address these things integrity, player safety,
but also just the popularity of these sports is kind
of in the balance as these stories unfold.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
And it's a distraction for the league. Obviously for the teams.
The league has a huge headache right now going on
with the LA Clippers and the allegations with Steve Balmer
and Kawhi Leonard. In aspiration, now two more teams get
brought into the mix. That actually more than two more
teams because Terry Rozier, the behavior he's accused of happened
when he did not play for the Miami Heat who

(29:35):
recurreent to the place for I believe it goes back
to when he was a member of the Charlotte Hornets.
So it's really a you know, a distraction, which is
unfortunate because a lot of great stuff has happened in
the NBA just over the first two nights. We'll talk
about that here later in this segment, but this is
going to dominate the conversation, and that one of the
things that I think the NBA will have to take

(29:56):
a long look at is, you know, what is the
right amount of pushback they give to the sports betting
providers who you know, make them a lot of money
and pay not only the league a lot of money,
but the team's a lot of money, the broadcast partners
a lot of money. But you know, Adam Silver has
said recently, even before this scandal broke over the last
couple hours, that he would like to see prop bets

(30:17):
go away.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
You know, just okay, e can beut.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
On which team wins the game, but individual player prop bets,
which are the most rifer manipulation, he'd like to see
those removed. I don't know if the NBA can kind
of unwind that at this point. But is there a
way to do that that to take individual player stance
off the table, make it more of a team performance
based thing. Obviously that's a lot harder to manipulate. I
don't know the answer to that, But that will have

(30:41):
more on rosters to rings. Certainly, as this story develops,
because this is just the beginning, more information will come
out and there's a lot yet that we don't know.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah, And the last thing I just would say is
there is a lot that we don't know yet. But
one thing I just want the listeners to understand is
most of the players, coaches, officials that are boiled in
this are not miminal masterminds. The people who are the
criminal masterminds are on the other side of the ledger.
They're the ones who are manipulating people to the point
where they probably in some regards, have almost no idea

(31:10):
that they're involved in something that's nefarious or it's dismissed
as something that is so minimal that it will never
impact the outcome of games. So they're not guilt free
in these situations. But it's not likely that the players, coaches,
people of whom we're discussing now approach to the criminal
elements and said, let's hatch this plan. And they were

(31:32):
the people who were the architects of this. They were
pawns in this and guilty, yes if if the facts
are display that they were indeed guilty, But they probably
aren't criminal masterminds here who are hatching these plans.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
And one final point I need to make that is
that what Terry Rozier and Jontay Porter in the past,
and Malie Beasley have been accused of is different than
what Chauncey Billups is being accused of. Right, Chauncey Billups
the head coach of the Portland Blazers. He is not
accused of manipulating games or player props. His involvement, allegedly,
according to the FBI, is in rigged poker games the

(32:09):
chance to play alongside professional athletes. I guess the games,
you know we're rigged or allegedly rigged that. You know,
they had card counting machines and things like that that
would basically stack the deck in favor of the house,
you know, La Cosa Nos or whoever the bad operators were,
so that we could spend all show, multiple shows on this,
and I'm sure we'll circle back to this probably frequently

(32:31):
here over the next few weeks and months. But let's
get into the World Series because that's about to start
on Friday night in Toronto. And one of the things
that I thought was so interesting that that I'd love
to get your take on off the top is for
all the talk of parody, isn't it great what Milwaukee's
done with the best regular season record. Isn't it fantastic
what Seattle has done? And I think both our hearts

(32:51):
break for the Mariners fans who are closer than they've
ever been to the World Series. But that as we
sit here on the eve of the World Series once again,
it's the La Dodgers going for their third title in
six years, and the Toronto Blue Jays who haven't been
there in a.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
While but have a top five payroll.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
And that your stats are really fascinating along these lines,
because at the end of the day, it seems like
to win at the very highest levels, to win your league,
and especially to win the World Series. The teams that
have those top payrolls keep showing up in the final
grouping time and time again.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Well, we had a breath taking ALCS and NLCS because
we had two teams that were fifteenth or lower in
the payroll. Seattle was hovering around fifteenth or sixteenth. Milwaukee
is around the twenty first or twenty second highest payroll,
depending on which metric.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
You look at.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
And so this is the ying and the yang of
professional sports, which is Major League Baseball, and all the
sponsors loved last year it was the Dodgers versus the Yankees,
two of the biggest markets in the game. This year
we now get Toronto against the Dodgers, which is a
tremendous marketing opportunity showcase for the sport. So I think
there's elements of the revenue generators that really love this outcome.

(33:59):
The notion of having Seattle or Milwaukee supplant the Dodgers
or Toronto is actually a really bad outcome for them.
But yet again, we're going to have another season where
a team outside the top fifteen payroll will not get
a chance to hoist the World Series trophy. And I
think that's a real issue. As we face and go
into twenty twenty six collective bargaining agreement expires, I think

(34:20):
the owners the union will be focused on this issue
of the perceived parody in Major League Baseball, which juxtaposed
against the NBA that we'll talk about in a little bit.
There's just no equivalent of an Oklahoma city market getting
a chance to win a championship in baseball right now,
or at least it hasn't played out that way since
two thousand and three when Miami won, which by and
large is still a major media market within the United States,

(34:43):
just isn't as.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Prolific in the game of baseball.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
But as I'm looking at the World Series, it is
a fascinating matchup. I think on the surface, everyone just
assumes the Dodgers are going to go and win this thing,
and they very well might, and maybe at the end
of the segment you and I will pick our champions.
But the reality is, over the course of the season,
the dog the Toronto Blue Jays are second overall in
offense in the major leagues with a war of thirty

(35:07):
two point six. The Dodgers were fifth at twenty eight
point nine. The separation really occurred on the pitching side.
The Dodgers were ranked second, the Blue Jays, believer or not,
were ranked twenty first overall in pitching. Total War favors
the Dodgers forty nine to forty four. But as we've
talked about on this show, that's what they did to
get to the playoffs. It's now in the playoffs, and

(35:28):
so guys that really didn't factor in for Toronto. Max
Schurz are a long time ace in a you know
is going to be a luck Hall of Famer, has
now joined their starting rotation. Back from injury. Treya Sevitch,
who was one of the best pitching prospects in the game,
came up at the end of the season. Has availed
himself as the number two starter for the Toronto Blue
Jays and has had a really great run in the

(35:48):
playoffs here and then similarly for the Dodgers, Otani the
incredible O'tani now is in part of their starting rotation.
Tyler glasnow comes back off the il so as good
as the pitching once throughout the course of the year,
they really didn't have those two guys. So let's take
a quick spin around the diamond and see where the
advantages lie. Both teams have great catchers. The Dodgers have

(36:11):
Will Smith, one of the best offensive catchers in the game.
We just saw cal Rally who was the best catcher
in the offensive catcher in the game lose to the
Toronto Blue Jays. Well, Will Smith has a chance as
the next best offensive catcher, and he's up against Alejandro Kirk,
who's one of the best defensive catchers in the game.
I think overall you'd have to give a slight edge
to the Dodgers there. First base, you have a battle

(36:34):
of two behemos. Vladimir Guerrero and Freddie Freeman are two
of the three or four best first basemen in the game.
Point War separated those two guys over the course of
the season. It's a toss up at first base. Second
base will be an interesting matchup because with Bobashek coming
back at shortstop, it may either push andres him Andez
to second base, who is one of the best defensive

(36:56):
second basemen in the game, who oh, by the way,
had a tremendous offensive ALCS, or we may see more
of Ernie Clement there, a guy who's kind of been
an unsung hero for the Toronto Blue Jays as an
offensive player. They're both up against Tommy edmund All he
was was the MVP of the World Series last year.
Probably a toss up at second base shortstop. You got
to go to Mookie Betts. What a tremendous story for him.

(37:20):
You know, we talked so much earlier in the show
about Raphael Devers and is not he wasn't willing to
move position, to move from third base to first base
for the Red Sox, so he gets traded. Well, Mookie
Betts moved from being a Gold Glove right fielder to shortstop,
a position he never played in the big leagues, just
because the team needed him to do it, and boy
has he done exceptionally well. They're Bobaschet's coming off of injury,

(37:42):
so I think the jury still owed as to how
he'll perform. Maybe, you know, we talked about rust versus rest, like,
let's see how rusty Bobaschett is. Third base is gonna
you know, you're going to go to the veteran Max
Munsey from the Los Angeles Dodgers, Addison Barger and Ernie
Clement will probably platoon over there to young guys. Those
guys are up and coming. Munths he's a little bit

(38:03):
more established. It's probably close to a wash, but you
got to give a little bit of a nod over
there to the Dodgers the outfield impossible to bet against
Key k Hernandez. This is a guy who somehow just
gets better as the season goes on, elite performer in
the postseason. This is his fifth postseason run with the Dodgers.
And then Dalton Varshow in centerfield is just an elite

(38:24):
center fielder. For the Toronto Blue Jays, I think the
advantage goes to them. They're Taoska, Hernandez and right field,
so the overall advantage is going to go certainly to
the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
There.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
I have one word for you to break down the
DHS and that is Otani, you know. But where I
think the real separation is for me is on the
pitching side. With the health of the Dodgers. With Otani
pitching now, in Glasnow pitching to go with Blake, Snow
and Yamamoto, I honestly would say that their four starters
are better than any starter on the Toronto Blue Jays.

(38:56):
And that's not a slight to the Toronto Blue Jays.
The Dodgers will genuinely be running out four aces at
the top of their rotation. If somehow Toronto can battle
against those guys, they've got a puncher's chance here. Another
thing which I think is a wild card in this
series is just simply the home field advantage for the
Toronto Blue Jays is significant for fans who've never seen

(39:18):
a game up there. It is absolutely hostile. It's a
bunch of hockey fans watching baseball. They are very boisterous.
Toronto's going to need to take advantage of that. I
think to level the playing field. They do have a
home field advantager. They'll get to play four games at home.
They're going to need to hold home a home field here,
win at least one of the first two games. If

(39:38):
they do, they then need to go to Toronto and
figure out, like they did in Seattle, a way to
get home, even if they're down three to two, with
a chance to win it out at the end. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I Vlad Guerrero is on a tear right now of
Lad Junior having one of the best postseason runs we've
seen in recent history. I think over the course of
the postseason he's probably played better overall than Show hey Otani,
that who got off to a slow start. But what
showey Otani did to close out the league championship series
in the National League three home runs ten RBI. We've

(40:10):
never seen a player do that before. We may never
seen a player see a player do that again. So said,
I'll go first here prediction time in the World Series,
I'm going the Dodgers win in six games. I love
the Blue Jays, love what they've done. I'll take a
break to pat myself on the back because I did
call them coming back when they were down two and
look like they were down against the Seattle Mariners in

(40:31):
the ALCS. But as I look at the Dodgers with
a fraction of your knowledge about Major League Baseball, I
see everything you saw, a star studied rotation and around
the diamond, very few weaknesses. If I'm on the other side,
I don't really know where you attack or take advantage
of a team like that. I just think they're too
talented the top and too solid throughout. So I'm going
to go the Dodgers four to two to win the

(40:53):
World Series. And if that happens, that'll be LA's third
championship in six years, which I don't know if that
in the modern era, would that make the LA Dodgers
a dynasty because there are a lot of the same
players you know been on those teams from twenty twenty
through this year, we're potentially looking at their third title.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah, and I think unequivocally they'd be a dynasty. You
also add in the number of times they've won the
n West. It's been an exceptional run for that franchise.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
I think you actually shed light on something very interesting here, Ryan,
which is the scary thing for the Toronto Blue Jays
is so far, the Dodgers have lost a grand total
of one game, and they had to beat the Cincinnati Reds,
and then they beat the Philadelphia Phillies and they beat
the Milwaukee Brewers to do this, and they've been on
the road for two of those three series and so

(41:41):
they didn't have home field advantage, so that is significant.
They knocked off the number one and number two seeds
in the National League, and the offense really hasn't started
clicking yet. So you still have the potential that Otani Freeman,
Will Smith, Mookie Betts, these guys have yet to reach
their peak. On the other side of the Ledger to
the stars have shined so far. George Springer of Vladimir Guerrero,

(42:04):
who referenced they literally could not have shown up bigger
in big moments, and then their complimentary players have been
excellent guys like Lukes and Barger and him Andez and Clement.
These guys have performed exceptionally well for them. So you
could argue Toronto needed seven games to get past Seattle,
and they were playing about as well as they could

(42:24):
play offensively. The Dodgers have only lost one game so
far and their offense is yet to really dominate like
they can. So I'm going to take I was going
to take the Dodgers and six, but just to change
it up a little bit, I'm going to take the
Dodgers in five. I'm hopeful that it gets closer than that.
I hope that we get to a game six or
seven back in the Rogers Center in Toronto, because if
we do that, I think it will be absolutely electric baseball,

(42:47):
great theater. I think the Dodgers going to win at home,
and I think they'll end up winning that third championship
and just cement themselves as one of the pre eminent
dynasties in recent memory in Major League Baseball.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Say that, and I think the the Dodgers are going
to take it. We'll see what happens here in a
few weeks. I like you, as a fan of the sport,
I'd like to see it go at least six or
seven games, right, I think that's that's good for the sport.
And one team thad that, you know one in seven
games last year after a dominant regular season, was the
OKC Thunder. They had a terrific opener the other night,
one of the best games of the year. I think

(43:21):
it's hard to say that about game one of over
one thousand, but that's that's what happened between the OKAC
Thunder and the Houston Rockets. The Thunder prevailed in double
overtime with Shay Guilders Alexander getting fouled by Kevin Durant.
Katie rarely falls out of the game, s g a.
I got him up in the air, drew a foul,
and hit two game winning free throws in double overtime

(43:42):
for the Thunder. So that I'm gonna you know, I
know it's not maybe your wheelhouse necessarily, but I'm going
to put you on the spot here. It'll stick along
the prediction theme. You know, what do you think of
the thunders chances to repeat? Because this is a very
unique team. They're the second youngest team to ever win
an NBA championship. They return everybody from last year. They're
the rere team that brings everybody back. As you know

(44:03):
in sports, usually if you win a title, you have
free agents. The other teams tend to pay or some
would say overpay those guys to get them off your squad.
That is not the case for OKSEA. They return turned
the core of the team that dominated in the regular season,
and then I wouldn't say there was dominant in the playoffs.
So the Denver Nuggets pushed them to seven games in
the Western Conference playoffs, as did the Indiana Pacers in

(44:24):
the finals. And the question that will never have an
answer to is how would Game seven have gone had
Tyrese Haliburton not blown his achilles after he knocked down
those early three pointers and it looked like the best
player on the court on the game's biggest stage. So
that I'm going to throw the ball back in your
court the OKC thunder. What do you think as a fan?
Did they repeat which which would be a little bit

(44:45):
unusual In the recent NBA We've had seven different champions
in the past seven years for the first time in
NBA history. That is does OKC repeat or is there
a new team that comes in and it makes it
eight out of eight, which would extend the the NBA's
record as far as having different champions over an eight
year period, Ryan.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
It's the opposite of Major League Baseball, right that you
guys had the Indiana Pacers in Oklahoma City Thunder in
the finals last year.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Two.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
You know, really small market teams that are exceptionally well run,
and I think that's wonderful for the sport. So I mean,
if you're asking me if I would take the field
over Oka, See, I would take the field. But I
do think they're an exceptional team. You know better than
I do. But living in Minnesota, the Western Conference just
seems like a gauntlet, and what we saw in an
opening night just seems to be a taste of what

(45:34):
is going to be in store for all these Western
Conference teams. You know, even the Timberwolves open last night
with Portland, which I don't think is necessarily regarded as
at the top of the conference, but it's an up
and coming team that one almost went to two overtime.
It just seems like there's going to be such attrition
over the course of the season. Relative to these guys

(45:54):
just beating each other up over the long haul. So
the fact that they're young probably helps them stay a
little bit heier. I think they have arguably one of
the best general managers in all of professional sports running
their team in Sam Presty. They're head coach you know
better than I do, but seems to have managed that
roster exceptionally well last year. I think it's going to
take all that and then some because even as good

(46:15):
as they were, you reference, they had two Game sevens
last year and maybe needed the injury to Tyrese Haliburton
to shifty the momentum back to them in that Game seven.
They may be one injury away from some major concerns happening,
and I just think it's going to be tough for
them to come out of the Western Conference again unscathed,
whether it be in the regular season or the postseason.

(46:37):
So I'm going to take the field against them, but
tons of respect for how they're doing it, and I
think they're set up for tremendous success over the long haul.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
They are they're set up as well as any NBA
team in recent history, maybe in NBA history, given their age,
their salary, flexibility. The draft picks they still have coming
so they can get top players in the draft. Those
picks are not Okay C's picks, which would be you know,
at the end of the first round. There are other
teams picks that could be in the lottery or mid
first round or can be traded to facilitate basically any

(47:08):
deal if they want to add salary, move off of salary.
They have the ultimate flexibility. That's what Sam Presty, Rob
Hennegan and company in the thunderfront office have created. They've
really done a masterful job. There another theme sad that
then I'm really keeping my eye this year in the
NBA are the injuries to star players. You know, you
mentioned the one to Tyre's Halliburton, which was devastating. I

(47:28):
was watching Game seven of the NBA Finals from my
six year old son Jack. He became a huge Pacers fan,
and he literally started to cry. You know, he was
so upset that he was, you know, on the Pacers bandwagon.
They're the closest team to us here. We went to
Game one of the NBA Playoffs last year and they
played Milwaukee. But in addition to Haliburton, who's likely out
for the year. Damian Lillard, who keep in mind, was

(47:49):
waived and stretched by the Milwaukee Bucks and now returned
to the Portland Trailblazers. He's going to rehab and almost
certainly missed the entire season. But a big, big one
that the biggest one in the Eastern Conference is probably
Jayson Tatum in Boston also blew hiss achilles tendon. Unfortunately,
there's a rash of achilles injuries to Eastern Conference star
backcourt players. It was kind of surprising how quickly that

(48:11):
happened to three of the best in the game, and Tatum,
Halliburton and Lillard. So the Celtics, the twenty twenty four champions,
who were the odds on favor to defend last year.
And I think that's an interesting tie in ad with
OKC because every year it's easy to say, well, how
are you going to beat those guys? They look unbeatable,
and Boston was in twenty twenty four, and they looked
like they were going to be again in twenty twenty five.

(48:32):
But as you know, everything changes in sports. Nothing is fluid,
even to start the year for the sorry, everything's fluid,
and so even to start the year in the NBA.
The OKAC Thunder, the defending champions, have Jalen Williams, arguably
their second best player. He is not healthy. He did
not play in the opener. It seems like he'll get
back in the lineup soon. But that as I look

(48:54):
at the Eastern Conference, two teams in particular I want
to get your take on because of the injuries to
Jason Tatum, Tyres Aliburton and the departure of Damian Lillard.
I think there's a real opportunity in the Eastern Conference
and the two teams that seemingly have a significant chance
to go farther than than they've been in decades is
are the Cleveland Cavaliers and the New York Knicks. That

(49:15):
one of those teams stand out to you? Or is
there somebody else you like in the Eastern Conference? Maybe
as nutset with the conference as wide open as it's
ever been.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Well, there's no better way to answer question is by
asking a question. So I'm going to I'm going to
shoot something back to you because I need a little
information before I answer that. What is on the calves
the Calves of Memory Service was that they were for
a long time the number one seed in the Eastern
Conference last year, and then they had some injuries late, right,
so they were a team that was regarded as a

(49:45):
prohibitive favorite and somebody who's going to contend with the
Celtics and Knicks and Pacers, and then they just kind
of ran out of steam when they got hurt. How
healthy are they now? I know Darius Garland is still hurt.
I don't know how long he's going to be out,
but by and large, so.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
They lost Ty Jerome, the backup point guard. He was
signed by Memphis. Had a great regular season. He was
a contender for a six Man of the Year. You know,
he struggled some in the playoffs. They also made a trade,
an interesting trade with Chicago Bulls. Did the Cleveland Cavaliers.
They sent Isaac Ocorro, who was a wing they lottery
pick a few years ago. Didn't pan out the way

(50:22):
they had hoped in Cleveland. They traded him to the
Chicago Bulls for a name that I think a lot
of our listeners probably have forgotten about much hyped as
a youngster out of UCLA and with the Lakers, and
that is Lonzo Ball, who was the starting point guard
in Chicago. Had a number of significant injuries over a
multi year period. Now in that time period, the Chicago

(50:44):
Bulls made a trade with the OKC thunder to bringing
the young point guard Josh Giddy, the Australian who had
fallen out of the rotation for OKC, and Giddy played
extremely well in a Bull's uniform. The Bulls just extended him,
so that limited the opportunity for Lonzo Ball. Those are
the main changes for Cleveland. Ty Jerome is out. You're right,
Darius Garland is injured, you know, likely to return or

(51:06):
is going to return sometime in the season. This is
not you know, Tatum Haliburton Lillard situation where he could
miss the entire year. And then the other core three
guys to call him the core four in Cleveland, the
other core three beyond Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley
and Jared Allen are all back and your memory is accurate.

(51:26):
They won sixty four games last year. They were the
number one seed in the Eastern Conference by a pretty
significant margin. They just did had some injuries and that
they ran into a buzzsaw in the second round in
the Indiana Pacers team that after a slow start, was
playing as well as anybody. So I think, you know,
this is the years. You know, in pro sports, sometimes
you have windows that can be opened for a while,

(51:48):
sometimes they open and shut quickly. I'd say for Cleveland,
maybe for the New York Knicks as well, that this
is the year to take advantage of it, because you
have to assume the year from now, Tatum's back healthy,
Haliburton's back healthy, maybe some of these other teams reload.
And the Knicks and Calves, who respectively were in the
Eastern Conference finals and had the best record in the
conference last year, I think really see this as an

(52:09):
opportunity to break through, to represent the East in the finals.
And as you know, if you represent your conference in
the finals, anything can happen, even if you're playing okay,
So you're one of the loaded Western Conference teams.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
When you get to that level.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Well, it just seems to me like looking at the
Calves in the Knicks, they have stars. They have stars
in those teams, and those seem to separate in the postseason.
And Donovan Mitchell as you mentioned, and Evan Mowgley, and
then you certainly have Karl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson,
who's availed himself as one of the biggest, you know,
big game players and leaders. I'd be curious, Ran, what

(52:41):
do you think the impact will be Your longtime friend
and professional colleague, Tom Thibodeau gets relieved of his duties.
Now Mike Brown is heading up the Knicks. It seems
as if that was the most material change they made
this offseason. How do you think that that impacts that team?
And the other thing I would say, observationally watching them play,
you know better than I do, seem to be an
incredible chemistry on that next team. So they seem to

(53:03):
be playing above their individual talents, and that is always
something I'm in tune with. You know, you can conglomerate
as much talent as you can, but do they play
better as a unit or do they play less well
as a unit? And they seem to be a team
that really started gelling in the playoffs and put their
foot down and saying, hey, we're going to be here
and be here for a long time to count.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah, as you know, if that in pro sports, fair
really has a whole lot to do with anything. You know,
maybe biased because of my friendship relationship with Tom Thibodeaux,
but I thought what happened to Tom was pretty unfair.
I mean, you get a team to the conference finals
for the first time in about twenty five years, you
beat the mighty Boston Celtics at defending champions and you know, people,

(53:44):
it's easy to say, in hindsight, well that's because Tatum
got injured. Well, the Knicks were leading the series and
controlling the series before Tatum got injured. Even with a
healthy Tatum, hypothetically it looked like the Knicks were going
to win that series. So, you know, I would say
that there's as much pressure on Mike Brown as any
first year head coach. I can remember that because of
what we just discussed with the injuries to the teams

(54:06):
in the Eastern Conference, because the Knicks were in the
conference finals for the first time in twenty five years
last year, and I think, you know, Tom Thibodeau's firing
is hard for guys like us who have made our
lives and careers in pro sports. You look at it
objectively say well, if that's not good enough, what is
good enough?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Right?

Speaker 1 (54:24):
What is the standard? The Knicks were not the most
talented team last year. They weren't certainly weren't in the League.
OKC was and you can make an argument they weren't
even in the Eastern Conference when you look at the
roster on Cleveland. We just discussed with the Celtics had
Indiana the way that we're playing at the time.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Okay, they were the hot team. So what is the standard?
What are the expectations for here?

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Is Mike Brown going to get fired after one year
if the Knicks don't make the NBA Finals or win
the NBA Championship. I don't know, but you know so,
I think it's a great opportunity for Brown and the
Knicks players. As I mentioned, the East is wide open,
but there's a lot of pressure too. It's not like,
all right, well, if we don't do it this year,
we'll kind of bring the same group back again and

(55:06):
try it again next year. That is not necessarily the case, Dad,
because now, especially with these high spending teams, you get
into that luxury tax second aprin era and you have
to make some pretty quick decisions about shedding payroll to
have anything sustainable. The Boston Celtics were a great example
of that this year, what they had to do, and
I think those are some of the questions the next
are going to have to answer win or lose, but

(55:27):
especially if they don't win win the Eastern Conference or
the championship this season, They're going to have some tough
decisions to make, and those decisions are going to come
quicker than most people think.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
So I'm going to circle back and actually answer your
question now, which is to say, Ryan, I'm going out
on a limbit. I'm going to pick the Knicks to
be in the NBA Finals this year. I think they'll
be late surges by some of the other teams in
the Eastern Conference, but I'm going to say that Knicks
will be the strongest team entering the postseason and they're
going to come out on top this year and get
a chance to play for a championship. I living in Minnesota,

(55:57):
I I would love for the Timberwolves to get the opportunity.
I think Anthony Edwards is one of the rising stars
in the game. Put the team on his back last night.
I actually think he has a very good supporting cast there.
There's some depth there. I think they may be one
year away from also getting opportunities to play for those
I just think that Western Conference winning multiple series and
getting to the conference championship and ultimately to the NBA

(56:20):
Finals is so difficult right now, and any of those
teams can trip you up along the way. Literally, probably
the one through eight seats all will have a claim
to a path to the NBA Championship.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Just to be different from you, Thad, I'll go with
the Houston Rockets and the Cleveland Cavaliers. Houston, after trading
for Kevin Durant, look pretty impressive despite the loss. On
Opening Night, they started the tallest lineup, longest lineup in
NBA history, Amen Thompson, who's one of the leagues emerging
young stars six to seven.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
He played the point guard. Thad.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
They did have a significant injury in the offseason, Fred
Van Vliet, the point guard in Houston, got injured. He's
out for the year. But I think the Rockets have
enough talent to overcome that. We know what Kevin Durant
can do, especially late in close games. Even at thirty
seven years old, he's still that guy FAD who can
close out a game and get a shot off at
any time against good defenses. So I like Houston and Cleveland.

(57:11):
I think, you know, it's two teams ahead of the
pack in the East, at least perception wise, I think
if Darius Garland comes back healthy for the Cavs, they'll
build on what they did last year. There won't be
the pressure to chase, you know, sixty four wins and
the best regular season record and all that. They'll be
able to settle into a groove and hopefully be peaking
at playoff time. One last question I had for you

(57:31):
before we wrapped the show is, you know, the World
Series is getting a lot of the attention now in
Major League Baseball, but I thought the Anaheim Angels did
something very interesting that's probably a polite way to put
it a little bit unusual, and that is after a long,
drawn out, heavily publicized managerial search stat that involves some

(57:51):
household names in Major League Baseball. Albert Kouhols, a Tory
hunter who I think probably spent most of his interview
talking about his appearance on Rosters to rings that they
hire somebody who was you know, maybe a little bit
surprising that. But what really surprised me was the contract
that this side. So why why don't you take our
listeners inside within this is you know, breaking in the
last couple of days. What the Anaheim Angels just did

(58:14):
this week well, I.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Think Ryan, you went, you did the verbal equivalent of
the triple jump to get from the initial word to
the source, helping you get to interesting and describing what's
going on in Anaheim. So, just as a quick reminder,
from two thousand to twenty eighteen, Mike Sosho was the
manager for the Anaheim Angels. That's a nineteen season run
for him. Since twenty nineteen to this year, they've had

(58:38):
this will be their sixth manager in eight seasons, which
is a remarkable, in staggering figure of just you know,
categoric you know, insecurity and instability for a franchise. So
are we all collectively shocked that he signs a one
year deal? Probably not. This maybe the only the only
actual franchise that would propose that to a manager and
have them accept it. Just as a point of reference,

(59:00):
I think the average manager is signing somewhere between a
three and four year deal. That is average, The most
recent of which was Skip Schumacher in Texas. He just
joined the franchise as their manager, assigned a four year deal.
I think that's very common. But some things that we'd
seen in the paper recently was that Albert Poolhols had
kind of in a huff, rejected the notion of working

(59:21):
for the Anaheim Angels as their manager. He clearly seemed
to be their first choice. They got to the negotiating table,
he walked away. Tory Hunter, whether he was offered the
job or not, he preemptively also pulled himself out. Well,
now I think we know why neither of those guys
was willing to work on a one year term. Now,
keep in mind, Kurt Suzuki, I think, has earned close
to forty two million dollars in his career, So if

(59:42):
anyone can work under this level of insecurity, it's probably
somebody with that level of career earnings. But it doesn't
speak well to the future stability of the franchise. Now.
In the press conference, general manager Perry Manasian made a
big point of saying, I am also under a contract
that only spans one more seasons, So they are linked together,

(01:00:02):
but I think in common terminology and sports, they're linked
together as lane ducks, where they're both going into a
season in which clearly the owner is saying, if the
performance isn't at a certain level, most likely both of
you will be gone again, and that would then lead
to the seventh manager and potentially nine seasons for this team.
It's a fascinating to follow. It seems as if we're

(01:00:25):
all looking at at Eclipse because I'm not sure that team,
from a roster standpoint, is really poised to strike or
win in what is now a very formidable Ale West.
They feel like they're being set up to fail. I
don't know what the criteria looks like for success for
these two gentlemen entering this season, but the fact that
both on the last year of their deal seems very
precarious to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Me, no question about it that. I think those of
us who work in pro sports, all we can realistically
ask for is a chance to be successful. I don't
know Kurt Suzuki at all, but it seems to me
he is set up to fail. I hope I'm wrong,
and I will I admit I'm wrong. If I come
back and the Angels have a great year next year,
but on a one year contract, I've never seen that
in not only Major League Baseball but across sports. You know,

(01:01:06):
I have some concerns about how that's gonna go. In
Anaheim really enjoyed the show today. He is Dad Levine.
I am Ryan McDonough join us here next week. In
every Week on rosters to rings,