March 30, 2023 • 46 mins
In the final episode of the series, Cassidy and Nikko are joined by PBA legend and current Assistant Coach for the NBA G League's Stockton Kings, as well as ESPN and Meadowlark's Pablo Torre, to discuss what it would mean for the first born and raised Filipino player to make it to the NBA.
Thank you for listening to the series and coming with us on this journey to explore the Philippines' basketball culture. We are grateful for everyone who sat down for an interview with us, helped us track down archive audio, and brought this story to life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I think people literally pray for this, and of course
they do. I mean, look at the I mean the DNA,
and I'll move to the science as well as the
spirit of this. Like the DNA of the Filipino right,
it is defiant. It is so defiant in the face
of a basic fact that says this sport is not
(00:23):
for you. This is our final episode and we want
to look into the future and ask what it will
take for the Philippines to develop the player who will
eventually make the dream come true. The country, with what
I believe are the most passionate basketball fans in the world,
(00:44):
can't wait much longer for it. But the good news
is I don't think they'll have to. Thanks to everyone
for listening throughout the series and for sharing the love
of the game that exists in the Philippines like no
other place in this world. Welcome to Episode six of
Hoops Paradise. The Philippines love up the game basketball basketball.
(01:09):
Archell stand Nico. I hate to say it, but disappointed
in you. Whoa whoa whoa me? What did I do?
It's just that if you believed in yourself like I
believe in you, I think the Philippines could have already
(01:30):
had that elusive first born and raised NBA player that
the entire nation's been waiting decades to see. Well, well, well,
you know when I watched the league these days, I
can't tell you how often I find myself sitting there
watching just the absolutely dominant play of so many, so
many five foot nine and three quarter inch guards who've
(01:53):
lost a step and maybe never even had anything to
deserve to be called a step to begin with, and thinking, wow,
I really am the prototype for the modern NBA. Fully,
I had you around to push me to greatness when
I was just a little bit younger. It's what I do.
But seriously, though, Nico, I'm curious why you think the Philippines,
a country of more than one hundred million people where
(02:15):
basketball is the unrivaled number one sport, hasn't produced an
NBA player yet. I mean, before we get there, let's
look at the history of NBA players from East Asian
nations and remember that any single kids' chances of being
one of the four hundred and fifty players on an
active NBA roster at any given time they're tiny, no
(02:36):
matter where you're born, true, true, I mean, despite the
NBA's growth, and popularity in the region. East Asia is
still in its developmental stages as a potential source for
NBA talent. I mean, only ten players in history have
grown up in the region and then made it to
the league, six from China, three from Japan, and one
from South Korea, and Southeast Asia has yet to produce
(02:59):
an b A player. There have been several more NBA
players of Asian descent who were raised in the States,
like Jeremy Lynn, the pioneering Japanese American guard wat Missaka,
and the Filipino Americans Raymond Townsend, Jordan Clarkson, and Jalen Green.
Of those ten East Asian players, only Yalming, the former
Houston Rockets center who was inducted into the Naysmith Memorial
(03:22):
Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen, made an MBA
All Star team. Eight of them if you're keeping count,
sure we're in the Wariam Shark. Others like Jan Lyon
(03:45):
and Wang Gigi, had long, significant careers in the NBA
but never quite broke through among the league's best players.
Japanese forwards Rui Hachimura of the Washington Wizards and Utawatanabe
of the Brooklyn Nets are off to promising starts in
their careers, but they don't project to be future All Stars.
So basically, even the most powerful and well resourced nations
(04:07):
in the Philippines global Neck of the Woods have been
slower to produce NBA talent as rapidly as other continents
outside of North America, like Europe, Africa, and Australia. And
that's fine as basketball fans, or sports fans in general,
or just plain old human beings for that matter, But
we don't have to treat everything like the metal count
(04:27):
at an Olympic Games. But here in the Philippines, the
elephant in the room when it comes to why the
nation hasn't produced an NBA player yet has always been hyped.
I remember in episode four what coach Dick Mada said
in nineteen seventy nine after his Washington Bullets beat a
team of PBA All Stars in the first ever exhibition
game between NBA players and Filipino pros held on Philippine soil.
(04:52):
Good big men will surely beat good little men, but
come on, that can't be the whole story. The fact
that Filipinos on average are among the shortest people in
the world is a major factor but there's got to
be more to it than that. Absolutely, and each next
generation of PBA players seems to be blessed with a
little bit more height than the last. But height will
(05:14):
probably always be a limiting factor in the country's ability
to develop NBA talent. But there's an interesting wrinkle to
that idea. Filipinos have always been among the best short
basketball players in the world in the PBA. When imports
with NBA experience are asked if they see any local
players who might have what it takes to compete at
the highest level, they often say yes, the best PBA
(05:37):
guards are up there with the best of them in
terms of raw talent, skill development, and shot making ability. Now,
I'm sure those imports know it'll be good for their
PBA careers if they engage in a little bit of
flattery when it comes to complimenting the local talent. But
we've heard it enough times from enough different players to
believe that there's really some truth to the idea. Of course,
(05:59):
that doesn't mean that you can pluck legendary Filipino guard
out of the PBA, drop him into an NBA roster,
and he'll be ready to contribute what those imports are
saying is that if the most talented Philippine pros, regardless
of height, had an opportunity to start training for the
NBA at a young age, they possess the rats tools
to get there. So what you're saying is that whoever
(06:21):
figures out how to unlock that potential and send a
Filipino to the NBA will basically become a national hero
and have their face put on one hundred pacel bill.
But how come nobody's cracked that code yet? One factor
that I think gets overlooked is how when it comes
to giving our local talent the time and space to
reach their full athletic potential, the Philippines passion for basketball
(06:44):
sometimes it goes too far and actually can become an
obstacle in a player's development. It's like an unintended consequence
of having such a strong local basketball culture, and it
can affect Filipino players in a few different ways. For example,
how about those great homegrown talents who win multiple PBA
Most Valuable Player awards and lead their teams to championship dynasties.
(07:08):
Is it really worth it to them to leave the
Philippines and their prime of their hall of fame? PBA
careers to chase an NBA dream. Maybe the dream isn't unreachable,
but it's still a long shot. And when you're already
established as an MVP level talent in one of the
world's true hotbeds of basketball fandom, I guess it's hard
(07:28):
to walk away from the security and the wealth you've
already built in your home country. Take June Mar Fahardo,
the best Filipino player of the past decade. Beginning in
twenty fourteen, the six foot tenh center won six straight
six straight MVPs and made the Sun Miguel beer Man
nearly unbeatable in an all Filipino conference. When he retires,
(07:50):
he'll probably be remembered as the greatest player in the
history of Philippine basketball. June Mar's game was never tailor
made for the modern NBA. He's an overpower, low post
scorer with soft hands, can vacuum up rebounds, and pretty
much guarantee two points anytime he catches the ball in
the paint. But even though he wasn't the exact type
of player NBA teams looked for early in his career,
(08:12):
NBA scouts saw how hard June maran the floor his
natural finishing instincts and the impact he had on games,
and a couple of franchises suggested he joined a summer
league roster just to see how it might go. Maybe
he'd be a learning experience, maybe it opened the door
to something bigger. He said no thanks, and he was
probably thinking no way. He was already living the dream
(08:36):
as a multiple time MVP in the league he grew
up dreaming of playing in. If it ain't broke, don't
fix it. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to argue with that,
who leaves in Hall of Fame career for what would
be a still long shot chance at cracking an NBA roster.
But even the players who've tried and not quite made
(08:56):
it to the NBA have accomplished something. I know. There've
been a number of players from the Philippines who at
least dipped a toe in those waters, exploring chances to
play high school or college ball in the States and
then maybe reach the NBA that way. And it seems
like each time a new player takes the leap, he
gets a little bit closer than his predecessors did. When
(09:16):
someone finally breaks through, it'll be because of the other
Filipino NBA hopefuls who blaze the trail before him. In
two thousand and seven in athletics, six foot nine four
named Jopeth Aguilar transferred from the Philippine College hoops powerhouse
Attaneo de Manila University to NCA Division one College Hoops
at Western Kentucky, where he was teammates with future NBA
(09:40):
guard Courtney Lee, But injuries limited jobhets playing time there,
and eventually he found his way back to a sterling
career in the PBA. Kobe Paras, a six foot six
guard who showed early flashes of brilliant talent and explosive
hops in Manila high school tournaments, moved to Los Angeles
in twenty thirteen to finish his high school career in California.
(10:01):
He was on the right track, putting up big numbers
against strong competition in earning D one scholarship offers, first
from UCLA and then at Crayton. But Kobe, the son
of former PBA MVP turn comedic actor Benji Paras, struggled
to find a role at the college level and returned
home to finish his amateur career at the University of
(10:22):
the Philippines. He since turned pro and now plays as
an import in the Japanese B League. And then in
twenty fifteen, Bobby Ray Parks Junior, the son of legendary
PBA import Bobby Parks, tried to make the jump to
the NBA level after playing college ball in the Philippines.
He went undrafted in the twenty fifteen NBA draft, but
(10:42):
showed enough promise in pre draft workouts that the Dallas
Mavericks added him to their Summer League roster and then
signed him to play a season in the G League
with the Texas Legends. Both of those accomplishments made history
the first born and raised Filipino to play in Summer
League and to make a G League roster, and that
brings us to the seven foot two twenty year old
(11:05):
center Kai Soto. I started playing basketball because of mostly
of my dad, because he played professionally in the Philippines.
I'm from a city of Laskina City. It's a city
in the Philippines, in Manila. The culture of basketball and
Philippines is just amazing. It's just it's like a religion. Now,
in his second year as a professional with the Adelaide
(11:25):
thirty six ers of the Australian abl Kay went undrafted
in last year's NBA draft, but he's still working to
catch an MBA team's eye, and he still represents the
philippines best chance to achieve the NBA dream. Now, I
(11:51):
promise I'm not bringing this up to torture you, but
can you give us a quick scouting profile? One more
time of the Cassidy hoverth who Once upon a time,
I'm dominated middle school basketball competition up and down the
North side of Chicago and the surrounding suburbs. What are
you doing? I mean, I'll play along because I trust you, Nico,
(12:13):
but this better be going somewhere. Okay. From sixth to
eighth grade, I ran local basketball leagues, ran them, Okay.
I grew early, so I was already close to my
adult height, bigger than most of the girls I played
against back then. I was athletic enough, I was coordinated enough,
I was competitive enough, and I just out hustled people
(12:36):
and scraped my way to back to back to back
MVPs three three of them things. And I wasn't the
most skilled. But you know, like no one at middle
school is so my tenacity one out three times. Basically,
you know, I was your classic undersize power forward who
(12:56):
peaked too early. Should have practiced more ball handling, mainly
my left and shooting skills instead of you know, my
baby shack drop step game in the low post, grab
and rebounds like I'm Dennis Rodman, which you know, became
kind of useless as soon as I got to high
school and I stopped growing and couldn't overpower anyone else
on the court anymore. And I mean, can I stop now?
(13:16):
Is that enough? I have enough regret that I live
with day in and day out. Could that be a
whole episode? Can we just go off on a whole
episode just deep diving that talking to all the young
girls that you dominate? It then perfect story though, it's
a perfect description. Work on your left, boys and girls. Yeah,
I mean yeah, I think your experience as you moved
(13:40):
from middle school to high school it really helped illustrate
one of the challenges regarding skill development in Philippine basketball,
at least in terms of training a player for a
potential NBA future. In middle school, you were successful with
a skill set that suddenly became less productive when you
made the leap up to the high school level and
found yourself competing against girls just as big or bigger
(14:03):
than you. Once he lost that physical advantage, your game
wasn't three time MVP worthy anymore. Well. The lack of
overall height among Filipino players has historically left our prospects
in a similar bind when it came to making the
leap to higher levels of play, whether it's international competitions
like the Olympics or the Feeble World Cup, or even
(14:25):
the distant dream of the NBA. I mean, I was
over here crying, so I'm glad you brought it back
because I see where you're going. So if you're an
athletic six foot four teenager in Manila, you're probably getting
more experience in a big man role than a perimeter player,
even though that height would still be small for an
MBA wing exactly. And even if that six four pinoy
(14:46):
had the dexterity and lateral quickness to develop perimeter skills
that a player of his height would need to succeed
in the NBA or in Europe, he might not get
the opportunity to develop that side of his game enough
to make the leap to higher levels of play. The
talent could be there, but he might never get the
chance to nurture it. And what's he going to tell
his high school coach who just sees that he's got
(15:07):
the biggest kid on the floor and his team and
he naturally wants that player in the paint. I mean,
imagine stepping to some toughest nails high school coach and
being like, Sir, I can't play center because I need
to develop an outside game for the NBA. Yeah, you'd
better be ready to run laps all around Lunetta, Manila's
(15:28):
answer to New York Central Park until you collapse if
you run that plan by the coach. That's really at
the heart of this cruel catch twenty two of basketball development.
The Filipino hooper is still having completely managed to break
free from The players with the most NBA ready skill
sets tend to be guards who are barely scraping six feet,
(15:49):
while the players with more conventional NBA body types don't
develop the outside game that they'd need to stand a
chance against the best players in the world. I mean,
you'd know better than may. But it does seem like
the country's basketball coaches and trainers are working hard to
reverse that trend and develop more versatile, taller players. Take
Kai Soto literally the tallest prospect the Philippines has ever
(16:13):
produced at seven foot two, and he's been working on
his touch on three pointers and running offense through his
high post passing for pretty much as long as he's
been playing basketball, and it shows. If anything, I get
the sense that the NBA teams would like to see
him develop a little more physicality to go with all
that finesse he flashes one hundred percent. It's definitely getting better,
(16:34):
and access to an infinite library of training techniques and
philosophies throughout YouTube University is helping players expand their games
in ways previous generations never had the chance to, and
the difference is already obvious in young national team players
like my guy six foot seven UAAP champion up Fighting
(16:55):
Maroon Carl Damayo, a twenty one year old forward whose
three point range ality to create off the dribble allow
him to switch comfortably between roles as a big and
as a wing, depending on the role his team needs
for him to play in different lineups. If Carl becomes
a model for future Filipino players with similar height and
athletic profiles, then it starts to become much easier to
(17:17):
imagine the country producing talents worthy of the NBA's interest,
and to get a deeper understanding of what it will
take to develop not just the first born and raised
Filipino NBA player, but a consistent pipeline of MBA worthy talent.
We wanted to speak with a Philippine basketball legend who
has an insider's knowledge of both the PBA and MBA worlds.
(17:39):
Jimmy Allipague, a Filipino American guard from Southern California, is
currently an assistant coach with the Stockton Kings, the g
League affiliate of the NBA Sacramento Kings. As a player,
the five nine point guard had anything but MBA height,
but in moments that are unforgettable to Filipino fans, he
gave MBA guards like Pablo Prigioni and JJ Borea all
(17:59):
they could handle when Jimmy and the Philippine national team
matched up against Argentina and Puerto Rico in the twenty
fourteen Feeble World Cup. And that's really just scratching the
surface of a career full of international heroics to go
along with six PBA Championships, two PBA Finals, MVP Awards,
and the twenty eleven PBA regular season MVP. Between his
(18:21):
fourteen season pro career playing in the Philippines and his
current role helping the Stockton Kings G League players improve
their games in hopes of earning full time roles in
the NBA. There's probably nobody on the planet with a
better understanding of these strengths and weaknesses of Filipino players
and exactly what the country needs to do to develop
more NBA talent. You know, I think I think it
(18:43):
would be groundbreaking. You know, again for a country that
has such a deep love and passion for the game.
I think it would just serve as a huge inspiration
for the next generation to say, hey, this kid was
born and raised here in the country, and now he's
playing against the best in the world. You know, obviously,
you know, Kay, you know, is working his way towards
blazon that trail. M And I think up to this point,
(19:05):
he's he's done a great job. You know, he's only
twenty years old. Um, I think I think he's still
you know, he still has things to work on his game,
but you know, he just went through the draft process.
You know, he already played professionally in a very competitive
league in Australia. So I think he's on his way,
you know, and hopefully he stays healthy and just continues
to grow with his game and continues to just improve
(19:25):
because at this level, I mean, it's it's the best
in the world for a reason. But it's great to
see him really carry the hopes of an entire country
on his young shoulders. But getting a chance to talk
to him a few weeks ago in Sacramental when he
came to work out for the team, um, it was
really good. And again I think he does have time
on his side, and it's just a matter of him
(19:46):
continuing to work on his game and continue to improve,
and hopefully he'll get that opportunity. So what do you think?
How long will it be before the Philippines makes history
with its first born and raised NBA player? Oh? Man,
I don't know. I also don't want to say something
presumptuous that it jinxes us and then I wind up
never seeing that moment come in my lifetime. I mean,
(20:07):
all right, I asked the question, but like, relax, just
looking for an over under here. No need to get
like existential on us. But we're beIN noise. Basketball is existential. Fine, okay, okay.
Let me think ever since Japetaguilar a College in Manila
to make a run at US Division one ball, there's
been a steady trickle, trickle of Filipino talent willing to
(20:31):
chase the NBA dream. And over that time that trickle
has become more like a stream. And each new player
in that lineage, from Kobe Paras to Bobby ray Park's
junior to Kai, they all seem to get a little
bit closer to the NBA. That's promising, But I don't
want to make the mistake of assuming it'll always go
that way. That just because Kai got so close to
(20:54):
the next hopeful who comes along as a short bed
to make it all the way, and it won't be
anything to be a shamed of if more players try
and ultimately fall short. I mean, it is the NBA
and there's only room for four hundred and fifty of
the most gifted basketball players alive. But the way things
are going and how fast Filipino players seem to be
(21:14):
gaining the sort of skills they'll need to get the
league's attention, someday, Hey, here it is, I think we
could see the first NBA player born and raised the
Philippines within I don't know, ten years time, twenty thirty three,
mark your calendar. Oh okay, marked, I think we need
(21:34):
to talk about one more big subject before we wrap
a bow around this podcast. What will it mean to
each of us personally, to our families, to everyone living
in the Philippines, and to the Filipinos based in countries
all over the world when that first born and raise
Pinoy finally makes it to the league. And to have
(21:54):
that conversation, I asked a friend to join us. He
has a way of putting things in perspective, which is
my nice way of saying. He's a world class overthinker.
And you know he went to Harvard, so you know
he's got class. A fellow member of the ESPN Filipino
Cabayan Club and a proud chronicler of every major sporting
achievement by Pinoy athletes ESPN and Meadowlarks. Pablo Esturing, what
(22:22):
would it mean to Filipino fans to see the first
born and raise Filipino player in the NBA? You know,
have you ever thought about that and what do you
think that would mean? Yeah, I've literally dreamed it. It is.
It's a messianic concept. And I say that with all
of the knowledge of Catholicism, of religiosity informing our ancestry,
(22:46):
Like I think people literally pray for this, and of
course they do. I mean, look at the I mean
the DNA, and I'll move to the science as well
as the spirit of this, like the DNA of the
Filipino right. It is defiant. It is so defiant in
the face of a basic fact that says this sport
(23:08):
is not for you. The universe. It seems at some
point like God was like, you know what, I know.
You guys like boxing, grade you can go do that.
You guys like cockfighting. It seems like maybe a little
questionable ethnically, but can rock with it basketball. It is
staggering how unrelenting we are in chasing this as the
(23:32):
thing we love the most. I never got over that.
I'll never get over it, and I refuse to give
it up for that reason. So is that how you
would describe what it would mean to you personally? If
as a fan, you're watching the NBA Draft and whoever
(23:53):
Juan de la Cruz it is, and the two twenty something,
hopefully it's the twenties draft, it's called up with the
you know in pick of the draft, like, are you
just gonna completely just lose it? What does it look
like in the Tory household? In my dream? There are
two versions that I'm not sure which version is best.
In the one dream, of course, he's a lottery pick, right,
(24:17):
and he's on stage and he's dapping up Adam Silver
and he's dancing in a way that also shows another
great Filipino talent, maybe grabbing the microphone, doing a little karaoke,
a little air supply. Maybe it's that. But in the
second version of this dream, which I'm actually kind of
more intrigued by, he's like, not there, it's a late
(24:39):
round pick. But ESPN cuts to the home and you
just see the spread. You see the titas, you see everybody,
like everyone has a plate. They're like they got let
chone in their mouth. The csig is still it's still sizzling.
You can hear it, like right off screen, you can
smell it through the television. I kind of want the
(25:02):
chaos of like and there he is with all of
his cousins, or at least the people that he says
are his cousins. It's really impossible to know based on
the sheer numbers inside of this box. Uh yeah, man,
I want I want the most Filipino version of this,
and I think that might be it. I think, I
think though, that that second version happens. And then right
(25:24):
behind him, it's the three of us because the family
has reached out and like, these three are vaguely somehow
connected to me. You know, we know them, we know
them in Yeah, they're Tina baby, knew my Tino junior,
and we're we're they went to school together, like you
know they they went to mass once. We're related. I mean,
(25:49):
while we're talking about family, who in your life do
you feel like would have the greatest sense of joy
or pride when it happens. Is it you? Or do
you have you know other family members who you feel like, like,
does your mom you know, always point out, you know,
versus Filipino like anyone. I mean, my life is constantly
(26:12):
people pointing with their mouths towards people who are plausibly
Filipino and being like miss Usa, y Erican idol, that
girl from high school musical. It's all that. And so
I do have to credit like I inherited love of
basketball truly from my dad and my mom. I'm first
(26:32):
generation American. They came over. I inherited, I mean mostly
from my dad. My mom really, I mean she supports,
she now supports what I do in sports. So they're
candidates for this question. But the answer really is I
have an almost three year old daughter now, and I
am trying to raise her to care about basketball in
(26:54):
the way that half of her, the Filipino half, truly
he needs to to continue my legacy. And so by
the time this happens, and I believe she, I fear
and actually hope, I suppose that, yes, she's conscious enough,
she's old enough to have the ability to form memories
of this moment when this hypothetical Filipino, this Juan de
(27:18):
la Cruz is drafted that she will see that television
screen and recognize herself, like and that's what this is
about in the end, right like it's it's the Philippine.
I mean, look, Asia as a concept is vast, billions
of people across so many countries and in America, lots
(27:43):
of places, honestly across the world. Everything gets shrunk into
one thing. We're all Asian, and I and part of
me that resonates I feel it I take pride in
that on some level, but really, the Filipino experience is
a particular one. It's a particular one in the way
that all cultures are, but ours when it comes to basketball,
(28:04):
is ours. Like I can't think of anything else that's
like basketball in the Philippines as a matter of love,
as a matter of family, as a matter of faith,
and that shit to me, Like, I want, I want
everyone in my bloodline to know and to feel that
(28:25):
in the way that I think we do. And I
think it's the ultimate achievement, right, because over the last
few decades there has been this diaspoor of Filipino people
just going out into the world and joining workforces. It
pick whichever country, right, I think it's the ultimate achievement
that the peak elites avenger level ofw Filipino overseas foreign
(28:51):
worker is an NBA player. Yeah, it's storybook. That's just
where all of this is supposed to be headed. No,
you've met our nurses, right you you you you know us.
We're good to you. We speak startlingly good English. Look
at this guy. You have to dunk on your head.
(29:13):
Enjoy that now. But what if you can't dunk on
your head, like doesn't matter if that player goes on
to have like a great career, like a regular one
or poor one, like it's just being drafted. You know
good enough, you know it's a great question. And I
don't want to put all of this pressure on somebody
(29:34):
who realistically, although Nate Robinson, I have learned in my
extensive research is like fractionally Filipino, So I don't want
to absolutely claimed claimed. We tried to make Andre Blatch
of Filipino through legislation to play for the national team
back to back baskets there by black step back. Remember
this is six powerfully we will take a sixteenth of
(29:56):
Nate Robinsons. But even still, I don't want to put
all the pressure on like, Okay, he needs to be
like you know, he needs he needs to do the
exact things that our height would not suggest that we
can do. Um fare. I think it just needs to
be the style it needs to be. It needs to
(30:16):
be a little reckless or a lot reckless. It needs
to be unnecessary. Spin moves between the legs on layups
like give me that three sixties, just like you know,
a little jelly as the kids say now, but like
it's the flare. It's the confidence, it's the it's the
idea of like this is a culture that dances and
things karaoke, and this is how they play basketball. I
(30:38):
want all of this. I want I want the clogged
arteries of the Filipino digestive system. It's indulgence, the cholesterol,
the unnecessary fat. I want all of that in this
person's game. That's all I ask for it. Yeah, that's
all you ask. I mean, it's poetic. You are a
poetic I have a lot of space in my back
(31:03):
for just like a massive tattoo. I think I just
found out what I'm going to put there, and it's
just like beautiful, perfect curative, entire the entire ten seconds
I'm just gonna have in my back. Yeah, it didn't
go as well when I went to my doctor's office
and got my physical and he was like, you need
to stop eating what you whatever? It is. Yeah, it's
(31:25):
like this ray, this X ray just has a picture
of a pig on it. I don't understand how this
is possible. Follow I know we laugh about it, I
know we poke fun about you know us. Really covetting
is the word covetting just like a home grown Filipino
born and raised Lichon eating basketball player in the NBA.
(31:50):
Is there though a lesson here somewhere about us maybe
not being so overly covettis of that one thing that
the Philippines hasn't yet achieved in basketball, which is a
homegrown NBA player when look at all the other things
we have, you know, burden hand, burden bush, you know. O,
We're a country that has a basketball culture that's maybe richer, deeper,
(32:13):
definitely on the elite, you know, and it goes back
through history, you know then compared to anywhere else on
the planet. No, it is I mean true to the
whole idea of like exporting Filipinos wherever, right, like there
is something truly as a human as a matter of
the human condition. It's objectively impressive that this culture has
(32:37):
bloomed in the way that it has in the absence
of the most conventional ways to install love in someone
for something. Right, the way you install love for someone
in something most easily is you say, hey, here is
something that looks like you. Do you identify with it?
(32:57):
We didn't do that. There is so little to identify
with in terms of basketball being sold to us from
the very beginning, right, And even the origins story remains
a little confusing to me, a little mystical to me,
Like in my mind, it's just sort of like it happened.
And I'm sure it happened in the way that spam
became a thing that my doctor tells me to eat
(33:20):
less of, right, like exported from the United States an
army base somewhere World War two. I'm sure there are
roots in that. But the fact that we built a
flourishing culture, economy, dream dream world around something that isn't
(33:40):
for us explicitly that you sent us out somewhere and
we thrived in alien circumstances, Like that's the story of
the Philippines too, And even if we never get the
thing that we dream of, I love that. I love
act literally for us. I love it. I mean, you've
(34:04):
said it all, I guess, like, just to put a
final bow on this conversation, I don't know how much
more poetic you can get, but if you could, just
what is the first thing that comes to mind when
you think of Filipino's relationship to basketball. Yeah, this is
(34:24):
less poetic, but it's real. I have the one of
my most treasured possessions is I want I try to
explain the Philippines and like the Philippine Basketball Association to people, right,
like in what it's like over there, and the rules
about imports and height and I mean just all of it, right,
all of its. I just show them this jersey that
(34:47):
I have. It's an Alvin patrimonial autograph jersey. It is
the Tender Juicy hot Dogs emblazoned across the front. And
I'm like, I know, you thought I was joking. I
was talking about all the pork stuff. But just imagine,
just imagine an NBA team called the Tender Juicy hot
(35:08):
Dogs being like the greatest team in the league, and
you'll have a little sense as to how it is
that our mash up of culture is is both special
and in every possible way extremely delicious. Yeah, that's that's
(35:29):
the choice of an adjective. Pablo. I mean, they're very red, Nico,
They're so red. I mean the hot dogs on question
that you gotta know what they are. It's like it's
almost like chemically red. You know, it's like package pre package.
It's it's a it's it's not it's it's not necessarily
what your doctor wants, but my god, man, with some
white rice, and it's always with some more white rice.
(35:51):
It's white Pablo the poet Torre. Everyone. Now, we're going
to take a quick break before we wrapped this full
thing up in a ball. Nico, I can't believe this
(36:12):
experience is over. This has been, I mean enlightening. It's
been just special to not only talk to you every
single episode, but to learn more about the Philippines, which
obviously I have this strong connection too, but still kind
of feel incredibly distant from. So you know, this has
(36:35):
been a really, really um wonderful experience and I couldn't
think of a better person than you to share it with. Yeah, No,
I mean absolutely, I think that our friendship and how
it's grown is my favorite thing out of this entire experience.
But also I've really felt much more connected to the
Philippines and being Filipino, and I feel extremely validated by
(36:59):
this basketball craz that I've had ever since I was
like two years old, you know, just by talking to
all these other people from all around the world who
feel the same way, tracing back a little bit of
our history. It's I'm so proud to be Filipino and
to be part of this crazy basketball country. I mean,
Sames's you said it validation, I will say, you know,
(37:23):
it's just learning more and feeling more connected and understanding
just the passion that the Philippines has for basketball. I
think also makes me understand myself a little bit in
the connection that you know, I've always had to basketball
my whole life. I will say, I think my mom,
who will definitely be listening, Hi, Mom, I don't know
(37:44):
she'll be you know, happy with like the tagala lessons
that you gave me throughout the show, or just disappointed
in herself since she didn't teach me tegala growing up,
because that's only your fault, Mom, Like, like, let's have
a real one on one conversation here, like you and
Lola should have taught me to gala growing up. But
not that I hold it against you or anything, but
(38:05):
at least I found my friend Nico to help me out,
you know, thirty eight years later. I think to wrap
it up, this would be a good point to finally
give you your grade. After all the lessons each episode, right,
so not good? I think. I think given the limited time,
limited exposure to it, and the fact that I put
(38:26):
you on the spot with super difficult terms each and
every episode. I think you get away from this with
a really strong B B. I mean, we all know
in every Asian household, a B is zon won't cut it.
But I will take a BEE because I was more
like behind the scenes, there's a thing called an edit button.
Our producers, Peter and Grace, I think they would probably
(38:49):
grade me more like a D, but I will. I
will take a bee, not a curb. No, I think
I think a B is strong with a possible B
plus if you put in a little bit of their credit.
But your mom and your Lola, they both get sea viruses. Sorry,
exactly exactly, but I will say this. It just was
(39:09):
so great to talk to so many different people. I
think my favorite interview was with Eric Spoelstra because I
felt a connection to him, both of us being half
Filipino raised and born of course Stateside, but always having
this like deep love for the Philippines. What you hope
for is that young kids cannot put limits on what
(39:31):
their dreams may be, and so if they see more
role models and see more possibilities of what could be,
and it maybe you know to be an NBA player
you know, like Jordan Clarkson or Green. But it also
may be a dream just to work in NBA, to
work for the NBA main offices, to be involved somehow,
some way in this great association. There are so many
(39:55):
different opportunities and possibilities now and hopefully you and I
you know, and everybody else can kind of pull back
the curtain for kids that may have just been fans before,
they may be able to think bigger now. It was
funny at the end of it he called me his
sister because we just had this connection of oh, yeah, okay,
we're kind of the same person. We both have our
(40:18):
both of our mothers are born and raised in the Philippines,
both of our fathers are from you know, European descent,
and we also found our careers in the NBA. And
to kind of like talk about just the super nova
that he is in the Philippines, I mean he is
like he is Michael Jackson meets Michael Jordan when he
goes over there. And he did extend an invitation for
(40:40):
all of us to join for a big party in
the Philippines. So we better take him up on that.
I am ready willing and able to be at that party.
It's it's great to be able to kind of speak
to him now here for this podcast, and the conversation
that you guys had is such a fun listen. I
remember the first time he came over to the Philippines
(41:02):
as head coach of the Heat and he wasn't in
a two time champ yet, um, and you know, he
was just the guy that we were so proud of
for making it to be an NBA head coach. And
obviously we're a whole lot proud of him now. And
also we you know, we had conversations with guys who
are still deep in it in terms of pushing Philippine basketball,
(41:27):
whether it's Tim Cohen who when we spoke to him,
he was in the middle of getting ready for practice
for a PBA Finals game. And happy belated birthday, Yes,
yesterday it's been Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was. It
was a weird day yesterday. One of the very few
times I've won a game on my birthday. Usually I
(41:52):
feel like I broke the broke the curse. Yesterday? Are
you getting ready for practice? Is this? Yeah? In a
few hours, a couple of hours, we have a practice
and we have another game tomorrow. Game two is tomorrow. Yeah,
so we play a game one yesterday, we play game
two tomorrow. Or Jimmy Lapage, who Kim Cohen famously passed
(42:15):
on in the draft, Jimmy never forgets and is now
coaching in the NBA G League of all places. You know,
what I try to do is just with with our
young guys and the GI League, just try to help
them understand what it means to be a pro and
the type of work habits that you need to have
and really develop, you know, a routine for yourself, you know,
you know, coming in early, staying late, and doing all
(42:37):
the things that are prod used to give them the
best chance. Because I know their goal ultimately is to
be in the NBA, and so whatever we can do
for them the GI League to build those habits to
help them work on their game improve growth. We're everywhere.
The Filipino basketball diaspora is incredibly impressive and we're gaining power. Well.
(42:59):
The one thing, the last infinity stone that we need
is that Filipino board and raised basketball player. But everything
else we've we've got it covered. Yeah, I mean, and
we still rep hard. Jalen Greene and Jordan Clarkson like
they we'll take the happies for right now. I also
really enjoyed the conversation with Andy Thompson and the story
(43:23):
he told us about the bus trip, Like that was
that stopped me in my tracks. Literally, we came out,
they shook our hands, We gave them some high fives.
There was no autographs. They just wanted to meet us.
Coach said okay, now go get back on the bus.
And we got back on the bus visibly shaken, and
we didn't say anything. The coaches got back on the
(43:44):
bus and we drove away. And to this day I
still think I am so fortunate that these were like
thumb wife fans are not fans of Janet buy or
Toyota or somebody else. What a roller coaster of emotions.
What was your teammate thinking And did any of your
teammates who were local, did they say anything to you
(44:05):
before you got off the bus. Yeah, when everybody finally
felt comfortable enough to talk, they said, you guys are
very lucky because normally they take you and they hold
up of hostage. Because the United States at that time,
when they had a policy, they wouldn't negotiate, and so
it was just like once again after the fact, when
(44:25):
you when you get back to your hotel room, we
still had a game to play. To this day, I
know I have some photographs of where we played, but
I don't remember anything about the game because my mind
was still on the back of that bus and in
that in that jungle. And when you get back to
your room and at night, then you lay down in
your bed, that's when you realize we definitely dodged a bullet,
no question. That to me was a standout interview and
(44:49):
story from the podcast. I also loved learning about just
the style uh in the PBA because it does it
reminds me of my scrappy style in middle school. I
can't believe I continue to talk about my middle school career.
I am the saddest person alive. That was my last bit.
That was my last bit, being able to visit your
(45:10):
middle school greatness. That and Raymond Townsend paving the way
for all basketball players with Filipino heritage, and him also
being like a top five just nicest person ever in
the world. Yes, it touches your heart to know that
these people are so proud and you know, my legacy
(45:30):
was forty two years ago but these people act like
it was yesterday, so you can imagine. I'm so humble
and grateful and I think Jesus every day for the
blessed life that He's given me through this wonderful game
of basketball. That and revisiting your middle school three year
(45:53):
MVP run are tied for me for I guess best
experiences of this podcast. Sorry sorry Raymond, but you know
three time MVP over here Chicago's finest. Here you go,
here you go, hub in the building, humum fume um.
But it was a pleasure and just an absolute wonder
(46:17):
to be able to spend this time with Eunico and
let's let's do it again. Can't believe it's done.
I think people literally pray for this, and of course
they do. I mean, look at the I mean the DNA,
and I'll move to the science as well as the
spirit of this. Like the DNA of the Filipino right,
it is defiant. It is so defiant in the face
of a basic fact that says this sport is not
(00:23):
for you. This is our final episode and we want
to look into the future and ask what it will
take for the Philippines to develop the player who will
eventually make the dream come true. The country, with what
I believe are the most passionate basketball fans in the world,
(00:44):
can't wait much longer for it. But the good news
is I don't think they'll have to. Thanks to everyone
for listening throughout the series and for sharing the love
of the game that exists in the Philippines like no
other place in this world. Welcome to Episode six of
Hoops Paradise. The Philippines love up the game basketball basketball.
(01:09):
Archell stand Nico. I hate to say it, but disappointed
in you. Whoa whoa whoa me? What did I do?
It's just that if you believed in yourself like I
believe in you, I think the Philippines could have already
(01:30):
had that elusive first born and raised NBA player that
the entire nation's been waiting decades to see. Well, well, well,
you know when I watched the league these days, I
can't tell you how often I find myself sitting there
watching just the absolutely dominant play of so many, so
many five foot nine and three quarter inch guards who've
(01:53):
lost a step and maybe never even had anything to
deserve to be called a step to begin with, and thinking, wow,
I really am the prototype for the modern NBA. Fully,
I had you around to push me to greatness when
I was just a little bit younger. It's what I do.
But seriously, though, Nico, I'm curious why you think the Philippines,
a country of more than one hundred million people where
(02:15):
basketball is the unrivaled number one sport, hasn't produced an
NBA player yet. I mean, before we get there, let's
look at the history of NBA players from East Asian
nations and remember that any single kids' chances of being
one of the four hundred and fifty players on an
active NBA roster at any given time they're tiny, no
(02:36):
matter where you're born, true, true, I mean, despite the
NBA's growth, and popularity in the region. East Asia is
still in its developmental stages as a potential source for
NBA talent. I mean, only ten players in history have
grown up in the region and then made it to
the league, six from China, three from Japan, and one
from South Korea, and Southeast Asia has yet to produce
(02:59):
an b A player. There have been several more NBA
players of Asian descent who were raised in the States,
like Jeremy Lynn, the pioneering Japanese American guard wat Missaka,
and the Filipino Americans Raymond Townsend, Jordan Clarkson, and Jalen Green.
Of those ten East Asian players, only Yalming, the former
Houston Rockets center who was inducted into the Naysmith Memorial
(03:22):
Basketball Hall of Fame in twenty sixteen, made an MBA
All Star team. Eight of them if you're keeping count,
sure we're in the Wariam Shark. Others like Jan Lyon
(03:45):
and Wang Gigi, had long, significant careers in the NBA
but never quite broke through among the league's best players.
Japanese forwards Rui Hachimura of the Washington Wizards and Utawatanabe
of the Brooklyn Nets are off to promising starts in
their careers, but they don't project to be future All Stars.
So basically, even the most powerful and well resourced nations
(04:07):
in the Philippines global Neck of the Woods have been
slower to produce NBA talent as rapidly as other continents
outside of North America, like Europe, Africa, and Australia. And
that's fine as basketball fans, or sports fans in general,
or just plain old human beings for that matter, But
we don't have to treat everything like the metal count
(04:27):
at an Olympic Games. But here in the Philippines, the
elephant in the room when it comes to why the
nation hasn't produced an NBA player yet has always been hyped.
I remember in episode four what coach Dick Mada said
in nineteen seventy nine after his Washington Bullets beat a
team of PBA All Stars in the first ever exhibition
game between NBA players and Filipino pros held on Philippine soil.
(04:52):
Good big men will surely beat good little men, but
come on, that can't be the whole story. The fact
that Filipinos on average are among the shortest people in
the world is a major factor but there's got to
be more to it than that. Absolutely, and each next
generation of PBA players seems to be blessed with a
little bit more height than the last. But height will
(05:14):
probably always be a limiting factor in the country's ability
to develop NBA talent. But there's an interesting wrinkle to
that idea. Filipinos have always been among the best short
basketball players in the world in the PBA. When imports
with NBA experience are asked if they see any local
players who might have what it takes to compete at
the highest level, they often say yes, the best PBA
(05:37):
guards are up there with the best of them in
terms of raw talent, skill development, and shot making ability. Now,
I'm sure those imports know it'll be good for their
PBA careers if they engage in a little bit of
flattery when it comes to complimenting the local talent. But
we've heard it enough times from enough different players to
believe that there's really some truth to the idea. Of course,
(05:59):
that doesn't mean that you can pluck legendary Filipino guard
out of the PBA, drop him into an NBA roster,
and he'll be ready to contribute what those imports are
saying is that if the most talented Philippine pros, regardless
of height, had an opportunity to start training for the
NBA at a young age, they possess the rats tools
to get there. So what you're saying is that whoever
(06:21):
figures out how to unlock that potential and send a
Filipino to the NBA will basically become a national hero
and have their face put on one hundred pacel bill.
But how come nobody's cracked that code yet? One factor
that I think gets overlooked is how when it comes
to giving our local talent the time and space to
reach their full athletic potential, the Philippines passion for basketball
(06:44):
sometimes it goes too far and actually can become an
obstacle in a player's development. It's like an unintended consequence
of having such a strong local basketball culture, and it
can affect Filipino players in a few different ways. For example,
how about those great homegrown talents who win multiple PBA
Most Valuable Player awards and lead their teams to championship dynasties.
(07:08):
Is it really worth it to them to leave the
Philippines and their prime of their hall of fame? PBA
careers to chase an NBA dream. Maybe the dream isn't unreachable,
but it's still a long shot. And when you're already
established as an MVP level talent in one of the
world's true hotbeds of basketball fandom, I guess it's hard
(07:28):
to walk away from the security and the wealth you've
already built in your home country. Take June Mar Fahardo,
the best Filipino player of the past decade. Beginning in
twenty fourteen, the six foot tenh center won six straight
six straight MVPs and made the Sun Miguel beer Man
nearly unbeatable in an all Filipino conference. When he retires,
(07:50):
he'll probably be remembered as the greatest player in the
history of Philippine basketball. June Mar's game was never tailor
made for the modern NBA. He's an overpower, low post
scorer with soft hands, can vacuum up rebounds, and pretty
much guarantee two points anytime he catches the ball in
the paint. But even though he wasn't the exact type
of player NBA teams looked for early in his career,
(08:12):
NBA scouts saw how hard June maran the floor his
natural finishing instincts and the impact he had on games,
and a couple of franchises suggested he joined a summer
league roster just to see how it might go. Maybe
he'd be a learning experience, maybe it opened the door
to something bigger. He said no thanks, and he was
probably thinking no way. He was already living the dream
(08:36):
as a multiple time MVP in the league he grew
up dreaming of playing in. If it ain't broke, don't
fix it. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to argue with that,
who leaves in Hall of Fame career for what would
be a still long shot chance at cracking an NBA roster.
But even the players who've tried and not quite made
(08:56):
it to the NBA have accomplished something. I know. There've
been a number of players from the Philippines who at
least dipped a toe in those waters, exploring chances to
play high school or college ball in the States and
then maybe reach the NBA that way. And it seems
like each time a new player takes the leap, he
gets a little bit closer than his predecessors did. When
(09:16):
someone finally breaks through, it'll be because of the other
Filipino NBA hopefuls who blaze the trail before him. In
two thousand and seven in athletics, six foot nine four
named Jopeth Aguilar transferred from the Philippine College hoops powerhouse
Attaneo de Manila University to NCA Division one College Hoops
at Western Kentucky, where he was teammates with future NBA
(09:40):
guard Courtney Lee, But injuries limited jobhets playing time there,
and eventually he found his way back to a sterling
career in the PBA. Kobe Paras, a six foot six
guard who showed early flashes of brilliant talent and explosive
hops in Manila high school tournaments, moved to Los Angeles
in twenty thirteen to finish his high school career in California.
(10:01):
He was on the right track, putting up big numbers
against strong competition in earning D one scholarship offers, first
from UCLA and then at Crayton. But Kobe, the son
of former PBA MVP turn comedic actor Benji Paras, struggled
to find a role at the college level and returned
home to finish his amateur career at the University of
(10:22):
the Philippines. He since turned pro and now plays as
an import in the Japanese B League. And then in
twenty fifteen, Bobby Ray Parks Junior, the son of legendary
PBA import Bobby Parks, tried to make the jump to
the NBA level after playing college ball in the Philippines.
He went undrafted in the twenty fifteen NBA draft, but
(10:42):
showed enough promise in pre draft workouts that the Dallas
Mavericks added him to their Summer League roster and then
signed him to play a season in the G League
with the Texas Legends. Both of those accomplishments made history
the first born and raised Filipino to play in Summer
League and to make a G League roster, and that
brings us to the seven foot two twenty year old
(11:05):
center Kai Soto. I started playing basketball because of mostly
of my dad, because he played professionally in the Philippines.
I'm from a city of Laskina City. It's a city
in the Philippines, in Manila. The culture of basketball and
Philippines is just amazing. It's just it's like a religion. Now,
in his second year as a professional with the Adelaide
(11:25):
thirty six ers of the Australian abl Kay went undrafted
in last year's NBA draft, but he's still working to
catch an MBA team's eye, and he still represents the
philippines best chance to achieve the NBA dream. Now, I
(11:51):
promise I'm not bringing this up to torture you, but
can you give us a quick scouting profile? One more
time of the Cassidy hoverth who Once upon a time,
I'm dominated middle school basketball competition up and down the
North side of Chicago and the surrounding suburbs. What are
you doing? I mean, I'll play along because I trust you, Nico,
(12:13):
but this better be going somewhere. Okay. From sixth to
eighth grade, I ran local basketball leagues, ran them, Okay.
I grew early, so I was already close to my
adult height, bigger than most of the girls I played
against back then. I was athletic enough, I was coordinated enough,
I was competitive enough, and I just out hustled people
(12:36):
and scraped my way to back to back to back
MVPs three three of them things. And I wasn't the
most skilled. But you know, like no one at middle
school is so my tenacity one out three times. Basically,
you know, I was your classic undersize power forward who
(12:56):
peaked too early. Should have practiced more ball handling, mainly
my left and shooting skills instead of you know, my
baby shack drop step game in the low post, grab
and rebounds like I'm Dennis Rodman, which you know, became
kind of useless as soon as I got to high
school and I stopped growing and couldn't overpower anyone else
on the court anymore. And I mean, can I stop now?
(13:16):
Is that enough? I have enough regret that I live
with day in and day out. Could that be a
whole episode? Can we just go off on a whole
episode just deep diving that talking to all the young
girls that you dominate? It then perfect story though, it's
a perfect description. Work on your left, boys and girls. Yeah,
I mean yeah, I think your experience as you moved
(13:40):
from middle school to high school it really helped illustrate
one of the challenges regarding skill development in Philippine basketball,
at least in terms of training a player for a
potential NBA future. In middle school, you were successful with
a skill set that suddenly became less productive when you
made the leap up to the high school level and
found yourself competing against girls just as big or bigger
(14:03):
than you. Once he lost that physical advantage, your game
wasn't three time MVP worthy anymore. Well. The lack of
overall height among Filipino players has historically left our prospects
in a similar bind when it came to making the
leap to higher levels of play, whether it's international competitions
like the Olympics or the Feeble World Cup, or even
(14:25):
the distant dream of the NBA. I mean, I was
over here crying, so I'm glad you brought it back
because I see where you're going. So if you're an
athletic six foot four teenager in Manila, you're probably getting
more experience in a big man role than a perimeter player,
even though that height would still be small for an
MBA wing exactly. And even if that six four pinoy
(14:46):
had the dexterity and lateral quickness to develop perimeter skills
that a player of his height would need to succeed
in the NBA or in Europe, he might not get
the opportunity to develop that side of his game enough
to make the leap to higher levels of play. The
talent could be there, but he might never get the
chance to nurture it. And what's he going to tell
his high school coach who just sees that he's got
(15:07):
the biggest kid on the floor and his team and
he naturally wants that player in the paint. I mean,
imagine stepping to some toughest nails high school coach and
being like, Sir, I can't play center because I need
to develop an outside game for the NBA. Yeah, you'd
better be ready to run laps all around Lunetta, Manila's
(15:28):
answer to New York Central Park until you collapse if
you run that plan by the coach. That's really at
the heart of this cruel catch twenty two of basketball development.
The Filipino hooper is still having completely managed to break
free from The players with the most NBA ready skill
sets tend to be guards who are barely scraping six feet,
(15:49):
while the players with more conventional NBA body types don't
develop the outside game that they'd need to stand a
chance against the best players in the world. I mean,
you'd know better than may. But it does seem like
the country's basketball coaches and trainers are working hard to
reverse that trend and develop more versatile, taller players. Take
Kai Soto literally the tallest prospect the Philippines has ever
(16:13):
produced at seven foot two, and he's been working on
his touch on three pointers and running offense through his
high post passing for pretty much as long as he's
been playing basketball, and it shows. If anything, I get
the sense that the NBA teams would like to see
him develop a little more physicality to go with all
that finesse he flashes one hundred percent. It's definitely getting better,
(16:34):
and access to an infinite library of training techniques and
philosophies throughout YouTube University is helping players expand their games
in ways previous generations never had the chance to, and
the difference is already obvious in young national team players
like my guy six foot seven UAAP champion up Fighting
(16:55):
Maroon Carl Damayo, a twenty one year old forward whose
three point range ality to create off the dribble allow
him to switch comfortably between roles as a big and
as a wing, depending on the role his team needs
for him to play in different lineups. If Carl becomes
a model for future Filipino players with similar height and
athletic profiles, then it starts to become much easier to
(17:17):
imagine the country producing talents worthy of the NBA's interest,
and to get a deeper understanding of what it will
take to develop not just the first born and raised
Filipino NBA player, but a consistent pipeline of MBA worthy talent.
We wanted to speak with a Philippine basketball legend who
has an insider's knowledge of both the PBA and MBA worlds.
(17:39):
Jimmy Allipague, a Filipino American guard from Southern California, is
currently an assistant coach with the Stockton Kings, the g
League affiliate of the NBA Sacramento Kings. As a player,
the five nine point guard had anything but MBA height,
but in moments that are unforgettable to Filipino fans, he
gave MBA guards like Pablo Prigioni and JJ Borea all
(17:59):
they could handle when Jimmy and the Philippine national team
matched up against Argentina and Puerto Rico in the twenty
fourteen Feeble World Cup. And that's really just scratching the
surface of a career full of international heroics to go
along with six PBA Championships, two PBA Finals, MVP Awards,
and the twenty eleven PBA regular season MVP. Between his
(18:21):
fourteen season pro career playing in the Philippines and his
current role helping the Stockton Kings G League players improve
their games in hopes of earning full time roles in
the NBA. There's probably nobody on the planet with a
better understanding of these strengths and weaknesses of Filipino players
and exactly what the country needs to do to develop
more NBA talent. You know, I think I think it
(18:43):
would be groundbreaking. You know, again for a country that
has such a deep love and passion for the game.
I think it would just serve as a huge inspiration
for the next generation to say, hey, this kid was
born and raised here in the country, and now he's
playing against the best in the world. You know, obviously,
you know, Kay, you know, is working his way towards
blazon that trail. M And I think up to this point,
(19:05):
he's he's done a great job. You know, he's only
twenty years old. Um, I think I think he's still
you know, he still has things to work on his game,
but you know, he just went through the draft process.
You know, he already played professionally in a very competitive
league in Australia. So I think he's on his way,
you know, and hopefully he stays healthy and just continues
to grow with his game and continues to just improve
(19:25):
because at this level, I mean, it's it's the best
in the world for a reason. But it's great to
see him really carry the hopes of an entire country
on his young shoulders. But getting a chance to talk
to him a few weeks ago in Sacramental when he
came to work out for the team, um, it was
really good. And again I think he does have time
on his side, and it's just a matter of him
(19:46):
continuing to work on his game and continue to improve,
and hopefully he'll get that opportunity. So what do you think?
How long will it be before the Philippines makes history
with its first born and raised NBA player? Oh? Man,
I don't know. I also don't want to say something
presumptuous that it jinxes us and then I wind up
never seeing that moment come in my lifetime. I mean,
(20:07):
all right, I asked the question, but like, relax, just
looking for an over under here. No need to get
like existential on us. But we're beIN noise. Basketball is existential. Fine, okay, okay.
Let me think ever since Japetaguilar a College in Manila
to make a run at US Division one ball, there's
been a steady trickle, trickle of Filipino talent willing to
(20:31):
chase the NBA dream. And over that time that trickle
has become more like a stream. And each new player
in that lineage, from Kobe Paras to Bobby ray Park's
junior to Kai, they all seem to get a little
bit closer to the NBA. That's promising, But I don't
want to make the mistake of assuming it'll always go
that way. That just because Kai got so close to
(20:54):
the next hopeful who comes along as a short bed
to make it all the way, and it won't be
anything to be a shamed of if more players try
and ultimately fall short. I mean, it is the NBA
and there's only room for four hundred and fifty of
the most gifted basketball players alive. But the way things
are going and how fast Filipino players seem to be
(21:14):
gaining the sort of skills they'll need to get the
league's attention, someday, Hey, here it is, I think we
could see the first NBA player born and raised the
Philippines within I don't know, ten years time, twenty thirty three,
mark your calendar. Oh okay, marked, I think we need
(21:34):
to talk about one more big subject before we wrap
a bow around this podcast. What will it mean to
each of us personally, to our families, to everyone living
in the Philippines, and to the Filipinos based in countries
all over the world when that first born and raise
Pinoy finally makes it to the league. And to have
(21:54):
that conversation, I asked a friend to join us. He
has a way of putting things in perspective, which is
my nice way of saying. He's a world class overthinker.
And you know he went to Harvard, so you know
he's got class. A fellow member of the ESPN Filipino
Cabayan Club and a proud chronicler of every major sporting
achievement by Pinoy athletes ESPN and Meadowlarks. Pablo Esturing, what
(22:22):
would it mean to Filipino fans to see the first
born and raise Filipino player in the NBA? You know,
have you ever thought about that and what do you
think that would mean? Yeah, I've literally dreamed it. It is.
It's a messianic concept. And I say that with all
of the knowledge of Catholicism, of religiosity informing our ancestry,
(22:46):
Like I think people literally pray for this, and of
course they do. I mean, look at the I mean
the DNA, and I'll move to the science as well
as the spirit of this, like the DNA of the
Filipino right. It is defiant. It is so defiant in
the face of a basic fact that says this sport
(23:08):
is not for you. The universe. It seems at some
point like God was like, you know what, I know.
You guys like boxing, grade you can go do that.
You guys like cockfighting. It seems like maybe a little
questionable ethnically, but can rock with it basketball. It is
staggering how unrelenting we are in chasing this as the
(23:32):
thing we love the most. I never got over that.
I'll never get over it, and I refuse to give
it up for that reason. So is that how you
would describe what it would mean to you personally? If
as a fan, you're watching the NBA Draft and whoever
(23:53):
Juan de la Cruz it is, and the two twenty something,
hopefully it's the twenties draft, it's called up with the
you know in pick of the draft, like, are you
just gonna completely just lose it? What does it look
like in the Tory household? In my dream? There are
two versions that I'm not sure which version is best.
In the one dream, of course, he's a lottery pick, right,
(24:17):
and he's on stage and he's dapping up Adam Silver
and he's dancing in a way that also shows another
great Filipino talent, maybe grabbing the microphone, doing a little karaoke,
a little air supply. Maybe it's that. But in the
second version of this dream, which I'm actually kind of
more intrigued by, he's like, not there, it's a late
(24:39):
round pick. But ESPN cuts to the home and you
just see the spread. You see the titas, you see everybody,
like everyone has a plate. They're like they got let
chone in their mouth. The csig is still it's still sizzling.
You can hear it, like right off screen, you can
smell it through the television. I kind of want the
(25:02):
chaos of like and there he is with all of
his cousins, or at least the people that he says
are his cousins. It's really impossible to know based on
the sheer numbers inside of this box. Uh yeah, man,
I want I want the most Filipino version of this,
and I think that might be it. I think, I
think though, that that second version happens. And then right
(25:24):
behind him, it's the three of us because the family
has reached out and like, these three are vaguely somehow
connected to me. You know, we know them, we know
them in Yeah, they're Tina baby, knew my Tino junior,
and we're we're they went to school together, like you
know they they went to mass once. We're related. I mean,
(25:49):
while we're talking about family, who in your life do
you feel like would have the greatest sense of joy
or pride when it happens. Is it you? Or do
you have you know other family members who you feel like, like,
does your mom you know, always point out, you know,
versus Filipino like anyone. I mean, my life is constantly
(26:12):
people pointing with their mouths towards people who are plausibly
Filipino and being like miss Usa, y Erican idol, that
girl from high school musical. It's all that. And so
I do have to credit like I inherited love of
basketball truly from my dad and my mom. I'm first
(26:32):
generation American. They came over. I inherited, I mean mostly
from my dad. My mom really, I mean she supports,
she now supports what I do in sports. So they're
candidates for this question. But the answer really is I
have an almost three year old daughter now, and I
am trying to raise her to care about basketball in
(26:54):
the way that half of her, the Filipino half, truly
he needs to to continue my legacy. And so by
the time this happens, and I believe she, I fear
and actually hope, I suppose that, yes, she's conscious enough,
she's old enough to have the ability to form memories
of this moment when this hypothetical Filipino, this Juan de
(27:18):
la Cruz is drafted that she will see that television
screen and recognize herself, like and that's what this is
about in the end, right like it's it's the Philippine.
I mean, look, Asia as a concept is vast, billions
of people across so many countries and in America, lots
(27:43):
of places, honestly across the world. Everything gets shrunk into
one thing. We're all Asian, and I and part of
me that resonates I feel it I take pride in
that on some level, but really, the Filipino experience is
a particular one. It's a particular one in the way
that all cultures are, but ours when it comes to basketball,
(28:04):
is ours. Like I can't think of anything else that's
like basketball in the Philippines as a matter of love,
as a matter of family, as a matter of faith,
and that shit to me, Like, I want, I want
everyone in my bloodline to know and to feel that
(28:25):
in the way that I think we do. And I
think it's the ultimate achievement, right, because over the last
few decades there has been this diaspoor of Filipino people
just going out into the world and joining workforces. It
pick whichever country, right, I think it's the ultimate achievement
that the peak elites avenger level ofw Filipino overseas foreign
(28:51):
worker is an NBA player. Yeah, it's storybook. That's just
where all of this is supposed to be headed. No,
you've met our nurses, right you you you you know us.
We're good to you. We speak startlingly good English. Look
at this guy. You have to dunk on your head.
(29:13):
Enjoy that now. But what if you can't dunk on
your head, like doesn't matter if that player goes on
to have like a great career, like a regular one
or poor one, like it's just being drafted. You know
good enough, you know it's a great question. And I
don't want to put all of this pressure on somebody
(29:34):
who realistically, although Nate Robinson, I have learned in my
extensive research is like fractionally Filipino, So I don't want
to absolutely claimed claimed. We tried to make Andre Blatch
of Filipino through legislation to play for the national team
back to back baskets there by black step back. Remember
this is six powerfully we will take a sixteenth of
(29:56):
Nate Robinsons. But even still, I don't want to put
all the pressure on like, Okay, he needs to be
like you know, he needs he needs to do the
exact things that our height would not suggest that we
can do. Um fare. I think it just needs to
be the style it needs to be. It needs to
(30:16):
be a little reckless or a lot reckless. It needs
to be unnecessary. Spin moves between the legs on layups
like give me that three sixties, just like you know,
a little jelly as the kids say now, but like
it's the flare. It's the confidence, it's the it's the
idea of like this is a culture that dances and
things karaoke, and this is how they play basketball. I
(30:38):
want all of this. I want I want the clogged
arteries of the Filipino digestive system. It's indulgence, the cholesterol,
the unnecessary fat. I want all of that in this
person's game. That's all I ask for it. Yeah, that's
all you ask. I mean, it's poetic. You are a
poetic I have a lot of space in my back
(31:03):
for just like a massive tattoo. I think I just
found out what I'm going to put there, and it's
just like beautiful, perfect curative, entire the entire ten seconds
I'm just gonna have in my back. Yeah, it didn't
go as well when I went to my doctor's office
and got my physical and he was like, you need
to stop eating what you whatever? It is. Yeah, it's
(31:25):
like this ray, this X ray just has a picture
of a pig on it. I don't understand how this
is possible. Follow I know we laugh about it, I
know we poke fun about you know us. Really covetting
is the word covetting just like a home grown Filipino
born and raised Lichon eating basketball player in the NBA.
(31:50):
Is there though a lesson here somewhere about us maybe
not being so overly covettis of that one thing that
the Philippines hasn't yet achieved in basketball, which is a
homegrown NBA player when look at all the other things
we have, you know, burden hand, burden bush, you know. O,
We're a country that has a basketball culture that's maybe richer, deeper,
(32:13):
definitely on the elite, you know, and it goes back
through history, you know then compared to anywhere else on
the planet. No, it is I mean true to the
whole idea of like exporting Filipinos wherever, right, like there
is something truly as a human as a matter of
the human condition. It's objectively impressive that this culture has
(32:37):
bloomed in the way that it has in the absence
of the most conventional ways to install love in someone
for something. Right, the way you install love for someone
in something most easily is you say, hey, here is
something that looks like you. Do you identify with it?
(32:57):
We didn't do that. There is so little to identify
with in terms of basketball being sold to us from
the very beginning, right, And even the origins story remains
a little confusing to me, a little mystical to me,
Like in my mind, it's just sort of like it happened.
And I'm sure it happened in the way that spam
became a thing that my doctor tells me to eat
(33:20):
less of, right, like exported from the United States an
army base somewhere World War two. I'm sure there are
roots in that. But the fact that we built a
flourishing culture, economy, dream dream world around something that isn't
(33:40):
for us explicitly that you sent us out somewhere and
we thrived in alien circumstances, Like that's the story of
the Philippines too, And even if we never get the
thing that we dream of, I love that. I love
act literally for us. I love it. I mean, you've
(34:04):
said it all, I guess, like, just to put a
final bow on this conversation, I don't know how much
more poetic you can get, but if you could, just
what is the first thing that comes to mind when
you think of Filipino's relationship to basketball. Yeah, this is
(34:24):
less poetic, but it's real. I have the one of
my most treasured possessions is I want I try to
explain the Philippines and like the Philippine Basketball Association to people, right,
like in what it's like over there, and the rules
about imports and height and I mean just all of it, right,
all of its. I just show them this jersey that
(34:47):
I have. It's an Alvin patrimonial autograph jersey. It is
the Tender Juicy hot Dogs emblazoned across the front. And
I'm like, I know, you thought I was joking. I
was talking about all the pork stuff. But just imagine,
just imagine an NBA team called the Tender Juicy hot
(35:08):
Dogs being like the greatest team in the league, and
you'll have a little sense as to how it is
that our mash up of culture is is both special
and in every possible way extremely delicious. Yeah, that's that's
(35:29):
the choice of an adjective. Pablo. I mean, they're very red, Nico,
They're so red. I mean the hot dogs on question
that you gotta know what they are. It's like it's
almost like chemically red. You know, it's like package pre package.
It's it's a it's it's not it's it's not necessarily
what your doctor wants, but my god, man, with some
white rice, and it's always with some more white rice.
(35:51):
It's white Pablo the poet Torre. Everyone. Now, we're going
to take a quick break before we wrapped this full
thing up in a ball. Nico, I can't believe this
(36:12):
experience is over. This has been, I mean enlightening. It's
been just special to not only talk to you every
single episode, but to learn more about the Philippines, which
obviously I have this strong connection too, but still kind
of feel incredibly distant from. So you know, this has
(36:35):
been a really, really um wonderful experience and I couldn't
think of a better person than you to share it with. Yeah, No,
I mean absolutely, I think that our friendship and how
it's grown is my favorite thing out of this entire experience.
But also I've really felt much more connected to the
Philippines and being Filipino, and I feel extremely validated by
(36:59):
this basketball craz that I've had ever since I was
like two years old, you know, just by talking to
all these other people from all around the world who
feel the same way, tracing back a little bit of
our history. It's I'm so proud to be Filipino and
to be part of this crazy basketball country. I mean,
Sames's you said it validation, I will say, you know,
(37:23):
it's just learning more and feeling more connected and understanding
just the passion that the Philippines has for basketball. I
think also makes me understand myself a little bit in
the connection that you know, I've always had to basketball
my whole life. I will say, I think my mom,
who will definitely be listening, Hi, Mom, I don't know
(37:44):
she'll be you know, happy with like the tagala lessons
that you gave me throughout the show, or just disappointed
in herself since she didn't teach me tegala growing up,
because that's only your fault, Mom, Like, like, let's have
a real one on one conversation here, like you and
Lola should have taught me to gala growing up. But
not that I hold it against you or anything, but
(38:05):
at least I found my friend Nico to help me out,
you know, thirty eight years later. I think to wrap
it up, this would be a good point to finally
give you your grade. After all the lessons each episode, right,
so not good? I think. I think given the limited time,
limited exposure to it, and the fact that I put
(38:26):
you on the spot with super difficult terms each and
every episode. I think you get away from this with
a really strong B B. I mean, we all know
in every Asian household, a B is zon won't cut it.
But I will take a BEE because I was more
like behind the scenes, there's a thing called an edit button.
Our producers, Peter and Grace, I think they would probably
(38:49):
grade me more like a D, but I will. I
will take a bee, not a curb. No, I think
I think a B is strong with a possible B
plus if you put in a little bit of their credit.
But your mom and your Lola, they both get sea viruses. Sorry,
exactly exactly, but I will say this. It just was
(39:09):
so great to talk to so many different people. I
think my favorite interview was with Eric Spoelstra because I
felt a connection to him, both of us being half
Filipino raised and born of course Stateside, but always having
this like deep love for the Philippines. What you hope
for is that young kids cannot put limits on what
(39:31):
their dreams may be, and so if they see more
role models and see more possibilities of what could be,
and it maybe you know to be an NBA player
you know, like Jordan Clarkson or Green. But it also
may be a dream just to work in NBA, to
work for the NBA main offices, to be involved somehow,
some way in this great association. There are so many
(39:55):
different opportunities and possibilities now and hopefully you and I
you know, and everybody else can kind of pull back
the curtain for kids that may have just been fans before,
they may be able to think bigger now. It was
funny at the end of it he called me his
sister because we just had this connection of oh, yeah, okay,
we're kind of the same person. We both have our
(40:18):
both of our mothers are born and raised in the Philippines,
both of our fathers are from you know, European descent,
and we also found our careers in the NBA. And
to kind of like talk about just the super nova
that he is in the Philippines, I mean he is
like he is Michael Jackson meets Michael Jordan when he
goes over there. And he did extend an invitation for
(40:40):
all of us to join for a big party in
the Philippines. So we better take him up on that.
I am ready willing and able to be at that party.
It's it's great to be able to kind of speak
to him now here for this podcast, and the conversation
that you guys had is such a fun listen. I
remember the first time he came over to the Philippines
(41:02):
as head coach of the Heat and he wasn't in
a two time champ yet, um, and you know, he
was just the guy that we were so proud of
for making it to be an NBA head coach. And
obviously we're a whole lot proud of him now. And
also we you know, we had conversations with guys who
are still deep in it in terms of pushing Philippine basketball,
(41:27):
whether it's Tim Cohen who when we spoke to him,
he was in the middle of getting ready for practice
for a PBA Finals game. And happy belated birthday, Yes,
yesterday it's been Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was. It
was a weird day yesterday. One of the very few
times I've won a game on my birthday. Usually I
(41:52):
feel like I broke the broke the curse. Yesterday? Are
you getting ready for practice? Is this? Yeah? In a
few hours, a couple of hours, we have a practice
and we have another game tomorrow. Game two is tomorrow. Yeah,
so we play a game one yesterday, we play game
two tomorrow. Or Jimmy Lapage, who Kim Cohen famously passed
(42:15):
on in the draft, Jimmy never forgets and is now
coaching in the NBA G League of all places. You know,
what I try to do is just with with our
young guys and the GI League, just try to help
them understand what it means to be a pro and
the type of work habits that you need to have
and really develop, you know, a routine for yourself, you know,
you know, coming in early, staying late, and doing all
(42:37):
the things that are prod used to give them the
best chance. Because I know their goal ultimately is to
be in the NBA, and so whatever we can do
for them the GI League to build those habits to
help them work on their game improve growth. We're everywhere.
The Filipino basketball diaspora is incredibly impressive and we're gaining power. Well.
(42:59):
The one thing, the last infinity stone that we need
is that Filipino board and raised basketball player. But everything
else we've we've got it covered. Yeah, I mean, and
we still rep hard. Jalen Greene and Jordan Clarkson like
they we'll take the happies for right now. I also
really enjoyed the conversation with Andy Thompson and the story
(43:23):
he told us about the bus trip, Like that was
that stopped me in my tracks. Literally, we came out,
they shook our hands, We gave them some high fives.
There was no autographs. They just wanted to meet us.
Coach said okay, now go get back on the bus.
And we got back on the bus visibly shaken, and
we didn't say anything. The coaches got back on the
(43:44):
bus and we drove away. And to this day I
still think I am so fortunate that these were like
thumb wife fans are not fans of Janet buy or
Toyota or somebody else. What a roller coaster of emotions.
What was your teammate thinking And did any of your
teammates who were local, did they say anything to you
(44:05):
before you got off the bus. Yeah, when everybody finally
felt comfortable enough to talk, they said, you guys are
very lucky because normally they take you and they hold
up of hostage. Because the United States at that time,
when they had a policy, they wouldn't negotiate, and so
it was just like once again after the fact, when
(44:25):
you when you get back to your hotel room, we
still had a game to play. To this day, I
know I have some photographs of where we played, but
I don't remember anything about the game because my mind
was still on the back of that bus and in
that in that jungle. And when you get back to
your room and at night, then you lay down in
your bed, that's when you realize we definitely dodged a bullet,
no question. That to me was a standout interview and
(44:49):
story from the podcast. I also loved learning about just
the style uh in the PBA because it does it
reminds me of my scrappy style in middle school. I
can't believe I continue to talk about my middle school career.
I am the saddest person alive. That was my last bit.
That was my last bit, being able to visit your
(45:10):
middle school greatness. That and Raymond Townsend paving the way
for all basketball players with Filipino heritage, and him also
being like a top five just nicest person ever in
the world. Yes, it touches your heart to know that
these people are so proud and you know, my legacy
(45:30):
was forty two years ago but these people act like
it was yesterday, so you can imagine. I'm so humble
and grateful and I think Jesus every day for the
blessed life that He's given me through this wonderful game
of basketball. That and revisiting your middle school three year
(45:53):
MVP run are tied for me for I guess best
experiences of this podcast. Sorry sorry Raymond, but you know
three time MVP over here Chicago's finest. Here you go,
here you go, hub in the building, humum fume um.
But it was a pleasure and just an absolute wonder
(46:17):
to be able to spend this time with Eunico and
let's let's do it again. Can't believe it's done.
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