July 7, 2021 • 58 mins
James Golden, a.k.a. Bo Snerdley, is joined by renowned political consultant and Conservative Mary Matalin and her husband, Democratic strategist and commentator James Carville. As decades long friends of Rush, the two share deeply personal stories about their relationship with him and his legacy on broadcasting and politics. This episode also contains a special feature about Rush’s radio program during the George W. Bush presidency, narrated by the host of Coast to Coast AM, George Noory.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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to t to t dot org. That's t the number
two t dot org. You are the most generous audience
there is, and we thank you for your support. On
this edition of Rush Limbaugh, The Man behind the Golden E.
I B. Mike, we have a treat today, and without
(02:14):
further introduction, Mary Mattlin and husband James Carvel, welcome both
of you to this podcast series. So we don't do
this together, I have to start by asking Mary and
James separately, when did you meet Rush? Mary gonna go first,
I thank you. I know you met him before I did.
Go ahead, I met him. We visited him and had
(02:38):
used to have an apartment like right on Fifth Avenue
in New York. And the first time I met him
was at his condo apartment whatever you call it was
Upper east Side, his Upper east Side digs and Mary,
you was that the time, honey? We went with Russert
and his wife with Tim, remember that we had dinner
(02:58):
at that but that was no that was at Central
when he lived in Central Park. We went and at
dinner with Russers. But Russian James ironically hit it off
and I knew Brush before he was rushed. We kind
of I think my dad turned me onto him in
the eighties, late eighties, and then we've been constant companions
(03:19):
since then, as James will tell you, since I never
turned him off. I miss seeing both of you. Remember
those Tim Russer Christmas shows, and we sure do missing
those of us who I mean, we love seeing your
family on Meet the Press with Tim Russer and I
gotta tell you Meet the Press. Of course, that was
back in the golden age of Meet the Press. James.
Let me, James elaborate on Meet the Press, because I
(03:40):
think this is a turning point in a lot of things.
When Tim Russer passed but interesting, sad, bitter sweet, but
tribute to Tim Russert in our relationship is, um James
tell him first of all, I think, James, you said
we were on there more than anybody else, Like, let's
elaborate at Tim. I don't know I was on I
(04:01):
was on that a lot. I don't know about more
than I think Bob Doe Will holds the whole time
record for me depress, but I could be the longest.
Probably changed since then. Um, well and I were just
they were like best friends. I mean we've had our
baseball tickets together with you know, professional basketball or Wizards
tickets together. His son and I did a top sports
(04:21):
talk radio show for some time. And uh, you're right.
When he died in June the first night we're in
New Orleans and and part of Washington journalism, I think
it died with Tim, but you know, it was just
it was one of those kind of similar events and uh,
you know it was to was to day. It's it's
(04:42):
difficult and it was, uh what twelve years ago, thirteen
years ago kind of order to believe it was the
first he died the first night that we were going
to spend in our house in New Orleans. So it
was it was almost to the date if you look
it up, maybe it was June eighth and ninth, the
day died, but before probably topa. I guess it would
be unfortunately, thirteenth year anniversary. Warm Alright. I don't want
(05:04):
to talk politics, because that is kind of not why
we're here. I do want to talk about Rush though. Now, James,
you know Rush had a nickname for you, what washing?
Somebody's Chelby? But what remind me again? It was serpent head. Yeah,
very calm any any nickname is good. Where that came from? Where? Um?
(05:32):
Jeb Bush? Well, it was a jabb or ales No, no, no, Jeb.
It was Jeff Bush. Because I was so smitten with James,
and I was on this rocket of a career trajectory
and I fell in love with him. And it was
in the middle of that campaign that I was running.
He was running Clinton's, and so everybody was like, who
is this guy? Nobody knew, And when Jeff saw my
(05:53):
TV goes that's it. That's the guy. And Roddrill said
this verse, he looks like I issue swam too close
to a nuclear reactor. And Jeff goes he it's like
a serpent head. I love you head. Well that quickly
be yeah, that quickly became. That quickly became your nickname
(06:15):
on the Russi Limbo Show and James, as you may know,
I don't know whether you know this or not. Rush
We had a lot of bits. Yeah, people would tell
me about it not you know, and that you know.
I never you know. It's part of being in a
public person. But you're right, married Right, every time I
get in her car that she had previously driven, it
(06:38):
would be on RUSH Radio. So I don't I think
I'd changed it right away to NPR. But but I
I think if I say something about Rush, if when
you've become famous, and I've noticed some right, people only
know you for what you're famous for, all right, So
(07:00):
if if you're a baseball player and you're famous, you
have a life outside of baseball, people are just not
that interested in it, are marginally interested in it, and
they want to talk to you about that. Well, obviously,
probably two people that Mary was closest to it was
Russian Vice President Cheney, and as a result of that,
(07:22):
I had to spend a fair amount of time and
but both of them word. They were multidimensional people. So
whoever I was gonna talk about politics, because I sure
they didn't agree to anything they said, and they would
say the same thing about me, but we could talk
about other things very easily. Was it wasn't a stilted
to force conversation that were They're both multidimensional people, so
(07:46):
you didn't have like uncomfortable small talk. And I think
that's something that's kind of important because, like I said, people,
when people come famous, they're only known for the thing
that they become famous for. But they have families, and
they have interests, and they have you know, children, or
(08:06):
they have any number of things that they deal with.
And I always found it, you know, easy to in
a social situation, uh, with both of these men and
not feel uncomfortable or anything like that. What did Dreames
tell my James tell Russia's James? What are Rush gave
(08:27):
us for a wedding present? Because that was one of
his things he knew a lot about. I said, let's
just say it was, hey gave us a magnum of
Obreon whoa of which, Yeah, it's pretty nice. I mean
it was any knew whe I mean he did, you
know and I would, I could talk, you know, vintages
(08:50):
with him or anything like that. And I uh, I
think we're gonna open it Thanksgiving if they it's getting
a little long in the tooth yet, I don't want
to sell it because you know when somebody gives you
a gift like that and they don't give it to sell.
And I still have it the Shanador Valley and it's
under control temperature, so I think that I think it
will drink just fine come November. The great cut post
(09:13):
COVID Thanksgiving, right, yeah, I'll tell you post COVID, I
just I'll spent a week in Las Vegas. You know
that was his re entry, James Golding, wonderful. Well, I'm
glad you. I am glad that you are post COVID. Now,
can I just get your reaction to this? Okay, So
(09:33):
those of us old enough to remember what the campaign
was like between Bush UH forty one and Bill Clinton,
remember it was a pretty heated campaign there. And then
comes this surprise, and you two took everybody by surprise
when news I don't know, was it leaked out or
(09:55):
did you announce it that you two were indeed in
love with each other and you were having a relationship.
How did what was the reaction at that time that
both of you encountered what we had a relationship prior
to the campaign. In fact, when I was doing the
Harris Wofford Race and the fall of but very well,
(10:18):
I've to go to the Durious three station in Philadelphia,
gorgeous building, you know, the angel holding the fallen soldier,
and uh, it was among people in Washington insiders, it
was pretty well. It was not the secret. I mean
we'd go to dinner together and do all kinds of things.
(10:38):
And and then once the campaign started, I think that
the public became sort of more aware of it. And
it's kind of funny for all of that and that campaign, Uh,
President H. W. Bush and President Clinton became really close.
I mean it was almost like an uncle to President Clinton.
And I'd go to the library, you know, and done
(10:59):
Evensford very you know, a couple three times, and you know,
always gracious and everything. And you know, it was a
different era in politics. And we'll just leave it at that.
Do you wish that that some of that Eric could
come back? I wish I was you know, forty eight. Again,
you know, nothing stays the same That's what people got
(11:20):
to realize. It is you're in a place now, but
you know, the place we were in is a different
place than we were in in two thousand and six,
which is a different place, and we're gonna be in
in two thousand and twenty six. I mean, I I
don't know exactly how it is this ends, but it's
the one thing I know. It'll morph into something else,
(11:41):
whether whether it moss into something better or worse. Uh,
promisic kind of got something better. But but it's what
it is right now. The Democrat part never James Carvill,
James Carvil, the Democrat Party that's never been, that's never been.
This polace in life boat. That was after Trump was elected.
(12:02):
James Kerver was on yesterday, Biden's gonna be Biden. He's
gaff pro but he got a hard to go, hard
to go all out there. You can't say another man
about on. Joe, Joe are the greatest guys in the
Democratic body. Leader that we need is exactly kind of leader.
He's a kind of the leader of the world. Day
Joe back. Over the course of this series, we've been
(12:22):
taking you on the biographical journey of Russia's life narrated
by his friends, family, and colleagues. Today we welcome Premier
Networks and nationally syndicated host George Norri. There's so many
commonalities between Russell and Bat and George Norri, both experienced
broadcasters from the Midwest and both from Missouri. Both broadcasters
(12:44):
host radio programs that are heard on over six hundred
radio stations daily, many of the affiliate stations bearing the
same call letters. George Norri is best known as host
of the Coast to Coast AM radio program All About
the Unexplainable now the incomparable George nor The Life of
(13:05):
Russia Limbaugh Chapter nine, narrated by George nor The nineties
drew new lines in the political battlefield, ultimately leading to
a hotly contested two thousand presidential election. But by the
time George W. Bush was inaugurated and the dust began
to settle, the era of compassionate Conservatism seemed poised for
(13:26):
smooth Saley. The Clinton presidency was in the rear view mirror.
The House had a Republican majority, and because Conservatives were
riding high, Russia's critics predicted, without anyone to complain about,
his show would soon be on the decline, and then
on a clear Tuesday morning, everything changed and debris is
(13:46):
just falling off the building. I mean it's underwardly looking
at the trade towers exactly when it happened. We need
to unite, We need to understand together. September eleven, two
thousand one profoundly impacted America, the presidency and Russia limbus.
All different sets of emotions start taking over. Then in
(14:08):
the course of the next few weeks, learned that I
knew people who lost people, family members and friends of
the World Trade Center. They are still not the same.
The tone of politics changed on a dime, and Russia's
audience grew dramatically as Americans turned to a familiar, soothing
voice to calm the chaos, pick up the pieces, and
(14:30):
move America forward. The Bush White House also recognized the
breach of his program, as both President Bush and Vice
President Dick Cheney became regular contributors. Welcome back to the
program the Vice President, Dick Cheney, Mr Vice President, thank
you as always, it's a it's an honor and a
delight to have you here with us. Great talk to
you again. After two successful terms and despite expertly guiding
(14:53):
America through an unprecedented crisis early in his administration. President
Bush left Washington with the waning popular the and a
miss harsh criticism. In the years that followed. Rush tried
to set the record straight. Bush was a solid leader
dealing with nine eleven of me. How in the world
you go from that perception to go to being approval,
(15:13):
hated and reviled. You do that by letting the media destraw.
You're not fighting back and not getting political because you
don't want to sully the office or whatever. To the end,
Russell Limbaugh had profound respect for his friend, President George W.
Bush and his stewardship of the American President's Bush has
been rehabilitated. In the eyes of the drive by media,
Bush is gracious. Now. What's missing in this transformation, of course,
(15:37):
Bush the evil, to Bush the gracious is the acknowledgment
that he has always comported himself this way. Despite the
relentless attacks these past eight years, George W. Bush has
been a class act. He considered Bush a strong leader
who was unfairly defined by his opponents, and for his part,
George W. Bush had a mutual respect for Rush, and
a statement after his death, Bush praised Russia's belief in
(15:59):
God in country as an indomitable spirit with a big
heart like his father before him. Perhaps the same could
be said about number forty three. Hey, James Golden, here,
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on to my pillow dot com, clicking on the new
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incredible offers there. Now that's my pillow dot Com promo
code icon. Let me just say this to you, and
(17:24):
I'll get your reaction to it. I don't know whether
you two realizes it or not, but for a lot
of people um that that are really political people, I
believe that you two are an inspiration because in a
way you symbolize something. You symbolize that two people who
are on opposite ends of the political spectrum can still
(17:48):
have a very loving relationship with each other. You guys
have been married for a while, you have kids now
that have grown, and I can still hear the love
between both of you, and this is his apparent always
been a real thing with you since you've guys decided
you were in love with each other. And so do
you share the belief that this is somehow that this
(18:10):
is in a way you two are larger than yourselves. Well,
all right, and don't you have a long conversation with Mary.
I just I'll go back to the original thing is
if you're famously you're known for something, of course this
is the way that we're in the living. There was
a guy, I think Walter Shapiro, wrote a review of
our book, and his point was, it's not surprising that
(18:34):
something like this happened in Washington, but would really be
surprising if Mary married a tree surgeon in Idaho. I mean,
if you put thought that would have been you know,
if you put when you put you know, boys and
girls in the same kind of profession, you know, and
that there are other examples of of people like us.
(18:57):
I mean, I guess, you know, passed the baton to Kelly,
Anne and George with which I'm happy to do. But
like Anna been At and John Buckley, they were good
friends of ours. They were you know, definitely John Buckley
was one of the famous Buckley's of Connecticut. And Anna
ben it's a fort worth uh. And she's a very
accomplished poster. I worked, I thought in New Jersey some
(19:22):
So I mean that they're instances of it, because it's
just the way that nature is. When you start mixing
compounds someone we're gonna stick m and uh. And I
think that what's helped us as we maintain interest in
things outside of politics, I think that's it. I think
(19:42):
that's you know, we both have a describe as a
healthy interest in politics, and I don't deny that, but
we have, you know, all kinds of stuff, but we
also enjoy we enjoy so many other things, football, family, food,
friends history. Okay, now let's take the politics if we
(20:02):
can aside out of the question. All right, what do
you think Russian blaws legacy is going to be, James, Well,
I mean it saved an entire medium of communications. I
mean they saved a m radio. And the way that
you know a person's legacy is how many knockoffs did
(20:23):
he create? You know, let Mary go through the list
of names of people you know. And I want to
only limit my remarks to positive remarks, and would note
that not the appropriate time to make. But but but
but well, in a nation that is really divided into
(20:45):
people that think difficions is a problem, kind of harder
to say, what a divisive guy. But having said that,
what I'd like to focus on because you know, he
created a lot of knockoffs and none of them ever
became him. And that's that's when you you know you've
done something when you've got successful people imitating you. And
(21:10):
I know in my own life, I mean have any
talk radio, but I always take such pride and people
in the campaigns that worked for me to have gone
on to do a lot of great things. Uh, So
that that that's what you gotta feel good. No, I mean,
I'm sure that that rush. You know, I don't have
any doubt that he believed in the things that he said,
(21:32):
and I'm sure he had to take a certain amount
of pride that so many people imitated him, and that
I think is is I don't think anybody has had
that kind of you know, influence and the right wing
media at all. And I mean I was listening to
(21:53):
him and I was working in Kentucky, and I mean
it's like that's that that uh, you know, to do.
I'm sorry, but I couldn't do three hours of programming
five days a week for anything in the world, and
you know he was doing. I mean, he was not
(22:14):
an overly modest man, but be honest, in terms of
his professional career, he didn't have a lot to be
modest about. You know, I'll say I I you know,
and I love coming on here, but Marry, I don't
know how much she loved r I should love you.
And oh, I was glad that you all asked me
to participate for a few minutes in this. I'm happy
(22:35):
that you did, and I'm so happy that you did. James,
thank you so much. We do appreciate your time. You honey,
love you by now married the attention. I mean, actually
we can't talk together. This is how we why we
were halfway decent on Tim because he we just talk
(22:56):
over each other. But can I just pick up on
one point that that James made that's so important and
its it's tied a little bow around everything you've been
saying about this period, and there's things that people didn't
know about Rush. I mean, of course he was more talented.
He was talent on loan from God, and you too, James.
(23:19):
The other James were saying confusing and James, but he
picking up on that point that James made. In real life,
Rush was an overly modest, humble he had he knew
what the data was. But I think to the very
end he was moved, struck, shocked, awed by his own reach.
(23:40):
He also was a gentleman. He was courteous, he was gentle,
He was patient. He taught me how to use it
iPhone when in the flip phone days. He knew something
about He was a Polly math or self taught Polly
Matthew knew wine and no architecture, new aviation, economic spycraft.
The guy was a real renaissance man and that's why
(24:04):
that that's how I think of Rush and the other
thing that James used to st James listened to him
a lot when we were in the car together. He
does he could do more better than anybody I've ever seen,
including James. But this is one of James's talents make
the complex understandable. But it's just there's just now you
(24:28):
know everybody, I don't. I don't want to make comparisons,
but I don't know anybody else that had as deep
a philosophical and and literal understanding of so many topics.
And he had first principles, and he was steeped in history.
And you know what else he knew that I don't
know anybody else that knows is is he turned me
(24:51):
onto this is what real liberalism, real legacy socialism is like.
He understood liberals, if you really, and he inspired me
to do this. Read a lot about the Russian Revolution
and even proceeding that marks and you know, the Enlightenment
and all that. He knew the whole thread of history
that led to liberalism, and he understood how it became
(25:14):
a racket and how it beat, how it transited the globe.
And that's why he was always a step ahead of
He always knew what the Democrats were gonna do before
we even knew what was going on. One of the
problems I had with Rush early on was I was
kind of a hippie dippy, you know, environmentalist in my
old days, and he when it started to turn into
(25:36):
a racket, and he connected it to environmental wackos, which
I kind of understood, but I couldn't understand the motivation.
That was the other thing that he could suss out
and explain the motive. And he never attributed ill motives.
He attributed the reality he was. He was the mayor
of Realville, so he knew what they were gonna do,
(25:56):
and he would say these things that people go, oh, rush, oh, Rush.
And he was always literally literally sometimes decades, always years
ahead of where the culture and the zeitgeist was. He's
he's literally an all time twentieth century genius. I said.
I used to tell him it was uncanny. He would
(26:19):
make predictions about the way something would roll out, and
sometimes I would be one of those voices. I'll come
on Rush seriously, and within a few months or a year,
sometimes maybe longer, whatever he predicted would start to happen.
But you know the beauty the gift you gave him,
and you would challenge him, and you would poke holton him,
(26:40):
and you made his particularly as he was thinking. That
was another thing he did that I've never seen anybody
do with the aplom that he did it. He would
think out loud, and he would think in full paragraphs
and complete narratives. But you would push him at prod
him and pick at him and understand what he understood
(27:00):
was in his head. And he thought everybody knew you
guys were a great team, James, a fabulous team. Thank you. Well.
I wanted to know and I always found him interesting
and I wanted to know how he arrived at these conclusions.
And you know, he gave me the freedom to disagree
with him publicly, which was just amazing and astounding. And
he could sometimes tell by a look because I'd look
(27:21):
at him a certain way, Why are you looking at
me like that? Do you not agree? And that was
if I didn't, Okay, I don't, and why and then
he would explain it. He was wonderful that way. That's
the that is the hallmark of a genius is somebody
who is always challenging their own perspectives, their own ideas,
(27:42):
and is trying to understand how other people think and
how they're perceiving what he is that the person here,
she is saying he always hadn't and he liked to
be disagreed with, didn't y'all just always tee up the
liberals first? That's right, that's right. He would demand that
if someone disagreed, put him up at the top. I
want to talk to them first. These people are not
(28:03):
interested in democracy. They're not interested in representative democracy or
a republic. We are in a battle for the overall
kind of countries is gonna be. We're not in a
battle over who is going to win every four years.
We're not in a battle over who's going to be president,
who's going to run the senator, who's going to run
(28:23):
the House. The battle we are in is virtually and
literally about will this remain the United States of America
as founded? That is what is being waged here now,
Mary you um uh. The people that have been with us,
the lifers, the people that were with us for the
(28:45):
full ride, remember full well that in our very first
compliment of guest host, we had a guest host rotation.
Dr Walter Williams love him me too, Tony Snow, miss
m too, and Mary Mattlin. You're too kind, James, I
would know I'm not you were you were in our rotation.
(29:07):
You guest hosted the show many times. What was it
like when you sat down? We used to do the
show out of Washington, d C. A lot at the
ABC studios. UH their their headquarters in Washington, d C.
They allowed us to come in and use their studios
and they were always, by the way, very nice with us,
very gracious. Um and you used to come in in
(29:28):
those days, and I used to fly down. We used
to do the show from from those studios. What was
it like for you guest hosting the Russia Limbus show? Nobody,
and that is that you're You're only like a guest
in the orbit of Rush. But I think it was
pretty good when I forgot about those days in Washington,
because then I did have a daily radio show, which
(29:50):
when I cut my contracts, in no way I want
to be on any position except after Russia Limb but
I don't want to be on that. But I the two.
The thing that that I don't remember most is how
bad I sucked when I came up to New York
and I was frazzled and frenzied, and I was sitting
in his actual chair behind the e I b my
and I just could not get my ship together. And
(30:12):
you were so kind and you just the only highlight
of when I did that, and I was so terrible.
It's like a week was my dad came on and
devoted to my dad and the way Russia was devoted
to his dad, and it just that's what I remember,
is your kindness and my dad coming on and that
I was so inept in the world of Russian limbo.
(30:34):
And it really makes you understand the skill set that
he had in addition to being brainy, like radio is
the is the most pleasing medium if you're a chatter,
and it's what's the most difficult. And I do remember
always missing the heart out, always missing the clock, always
talking over people. So he thank you for having me on.
(30:57):
But I remember you kindly said, well you're in the rotation.
I said, well then you're gonna have a you're gonna
have a big loss of listeners. And now, folks, if
you didn't hear it, don't believe her. She was Mary
was great because I'll tell you one thing Mary always did,
which was come prepared, and Mary knew and knows subject
(31:17):
matter of politics like nobody else. I mean, this is
your this is I mean, I hear you saying that
you and James, you know, you don't talk about politics,
and maybe with the rest of the family you don't,
but you are a political person and you you understand politics.
You know it from the inside and the outside. All
of the stuff that's quote unquote in the weeds, you
(31:39):
understand that stuff, and you can talk about that stuff.
But you can also talk about big picture politics and
and all of that. And so that's what you brought
to the table. And I'm and that's what I know
you still bring to the table Mary, except I've banned
myself because I just this this environment is it's so
(32:00):
ugly and uncivil, and I don't want to be cliche
about it. But the speaking of the weeds, you mentioned
earlier that uh Russian I we were so on the
same wavelength and we went through so many campaigns together
that if I if and he knew a lot about politics,
as you knew a lot about everything, but he wouldn't
(32:21):
have these like blind spots. So I would email him
and in real time. I don't know how you guys
did this. In real time, he'd sort three find out
of his thousand emails a minute, he'd find the one
and he it would be just I just sent him
in a headline in the in the title, or a
quick sentence, uh where he was offered another fact to
(32:42):
add or some poll date or something I had that
he didn't know, and he seamlessly incorporated into his subsequent remarks.
And it just was I felt like we had such
a such a team thing going on. And then the
last year, I I I've never seen such courage and bravery.
(33:05):
I happened to have had health issues with contemporaneous lessly
with his and some of my friends were going too,
and my friends were going through the same thing. And
I don't know how he got up and went to
the studio as often as he did, and he put
off this team. I mean, if people don't, it's just
so unusual in this sort of I don't want to
(33:27):
say snow flaky, but this in the in this self
uh immediate gratification and uh un uncourageous and the easiest
way out side guys that we find ourselves in rush
showed the courage of of George Washington. I mean, I can't,
I can't even I don't even know how he did that.
(33:48):
Bo you were there, I mean, it just it just
stunning to me. And he made a huge difference and
he it. I really felt like he was going to
bring it over the line, just like he did in
which was amazing. Ye explained the marked to people by
the way he the ninth the Republicans had been but
(34:11):
we had been friends for some time here at that point.
I literally like a month after I got married, I
flew out to California for a book party. I think
he quit doing book parties, but this might have been
one of the very first books. And his mother was
that Millie was there, his beloved Millie. I loved her
and he so all the time that I knew him.
(34:33):
Preceding this, Republicans were wandering around in the desert and
they had been in the minority for over half a century.
And he became an honorary member of the Congress because
he they couldn't get there, and there you can see
this problem today. Republicans have a hard time speaking with
one voice because they're speaking into immediacy. Rush went above
(34:58):
that and laid out the principles and how the policies
of this uh, the New Gingridge Revolution at that time
was really Russia's revolution, how it how the first principles,
how these policies were predicated on these first principles, and
everybody was shocked. We won that. No one saw this
(35:19):
coming except for Russia. The Republicans won the majority, they won,
We won the New York governors that Rudy Giuliani. It
was a complete sweep. And I I credit and many
do too. And anybody who knows anything about policies and
how messages delivered and penetrates would attribute to the victory
(35:42):
and the finest victory in the last century for Republicans
to rush Limbaugh's and I can't call it anything else
but a campaign. His other completely transformational act was um
Operation Chaos. He watching fluence on politics way more than
anybody who's in politics. I shouldn't say that. That's a
(36:05):
little hyperbole, but he had as much influence as everyday
operatives have on politics. But in the big picture and
the historical picture there he had more influence than anybody else,
and that is fair to say. And towards the his
his let's say in the sixties when he and Katherine
(36:25):
started doing the history book. He had identified the problem
the way ahead of the curve, that we weren't learning
history right. So he's covered so many generations, uh with
with this unique talent of his, and it it just
I'm I can't even keep a train of phone. When
(36:46):
I think of him. My whole brain just smiles, It
just lights up. I just this everything about him was
such a special thing. He also was in real life.
This is a really main point about living happily in
all eras. That man had a sense of humor. Yes
he did. He was funny in the sophisticated way, and
(37:12):
he just was. He was always so much fun to
be around. I just I just miss him so much.
Dreams I miss him too. And some days I'm I mean,
all of us on were I think, you know, I
still have dreams I miss him. I was talking with
Dawn the other day and Dawn was saying, you know,
she still expects to wake up and just one day
(37:34):
all of us to be back in the studio together.
And it's just still really um, it's still mind numbing
that that that when did you find out he was sick? Well,
I guess I literally found out or when everybody else did.
But I knew, I just know. I mean, I just
I just I don't. This sounds weird, but we were
(37:56):
telepathically connected, and I knew something was freighting him before
didn't when he announced it. I just was not I
remember not being remotely surprised, just sad. And I thought
he was gonna beat it. I really thought he was
going to beat it. And I he I think he
(38:17):
I don't want to say, stepped up his game because
he never had a bad day even though he thought
he did. That's another thing. How many people, do you know,
do something as long as they he did that, who
come to work talk about being prepared, who come to
their job every day with the level of intensity and
depth that he did in those days. He come back
(38:39):
and said, look, yesterday, I don't think I did a
good job. I let me try. I he just who
keeps that that that self criticism and that self improvement
and that reaching for the stars uh as part of
their fundamental being? And he kept that on at a
whole different level, like a transcendent i'd given level in
(39:01):
his last year, and I and I could feel when
he was having good days and bad days, and it
had so screwed up his time, not his time even
looking at the clock. You know this because I never
saw many clocks as he did in that last year.
He was so in his zone. And I'm sure he
was doing it on all kinds of drugs too, because
(39:24):
you can't just take him, mom, And I still don't
to this. I've never I've never seen that, and we
can expect to never see that again. He's he's actually
a medical miracle, you know. He um he That's what
I said, And I was in one of the earlier
podcast I mentioned how at the end of his show
sometimes he would be so exhausted he couldn't even stand up,
he could barely stand up. But he gave everything that
(39:48):
he could into each one of those shows. And and
this was something else, you know, going into thirty three
years of being a syndicated holes before, before he real
eyes he was sick, before he realized that something was wrong,
Rush was still and even of course afterwards, but he
(40:08):
always gave it his best shot. He didn't mail it in,
he never mailed it. He was still excited about being
on the radio. This hadn't become just a dull routine.
To him, this was something that he honestly did believe
he was born to do, and he enjoyed it. This
is he loved it, and he gave it his best
(40:30):
every single day. You know when he used to say, uh,
more more fun than any human beings should be allowed
to have. That's how he lived his life. And you
know it wasn't without problems, and he overcame so many things,
as you and David's brother know and all that, but
(40:53):
he he never even phoned it in when he was
going through his various trials and tribulations like who doesn't
have those in life? And those trials and tribulations that
he overcame that were of his own doing, took enormous courage.
And then so much of the things he had to
overcome were externally imposed on him. And I know in
(41:15):
the beginning, now everybody knows we're in a psycho toxic
you know, social media world. But when people started coming
after him, I think it surprised an It hurt him
in a way that he didn't understand because he was
his person. He was never mean. Now, I don't know
how people ever thought he was mean. There was nothing
(41:35):
ever mean about him. Did he have a mean bonus?
I've never talked anybody. No, No, Nor was he racist,
nor was he bigoted, nor was he all these other
things that the left through on him as a means
of trying to hurt him and diminish his credibility. You know,
they came at him. What what we're all accused of
(41:58):
these days. You know, you want sovereign borders, you're a
racist if you like you know, whatever it is, you're racist,
no matter what. We know all that. But they did
that to him first. So in a way, he was
like a punching bag in a in a learning vehicle
or a preparation vehicle for now all of us that
(42:19):
are called racist at any moment. And you know before
that he was a misogynist, and and he was aside,
he was a a feminazi. That was my favorite thing
because I I left, I left the feminist whatever way.
I'm sixty eight, so we're kind of the same age. Well,
I could hang in with them when they said a
man a woman needs a man like a bike needs
(42:41):
a fish. And then they turned in all the id
politics instead of really, you know, equal opportunity and all
that and feminine you can't even use the word nots anymore.
But when he said feminazi, I just to this day
I crack up because it was so perfect and it
was such so port entious, like they were so untouchable
(43:03):
when he started doing that, and it was and he
really had the nail on the head. If I may
say this, A lot of feminists that took took feminism
in the wrong direction. He couldn't be not you know,
I don't really even want to say this, but he
knew what the problem, what the essence of that fanaticism
was as and it's the same with all kinds of
liberal fanaticism. He understood that and it never tainted his soul.
(43:28):
It just inspired him to get people to understand not
only what they were doing, what they were planning to do,
but what to do about it, and to keep doing it,
and to keep doing it and to keep fighting and
the other thing. Besides never being mean to anybody. He
I'm sure he had some depressed days, but you he
(43:50):
how many times did people call in and they were
crying or they're about to cry, or they were so forlorn,
or they've just given up, including people lost their jobs
and stuff. He would just talk him back from the brink.
And it's just that had such a magnifying force for
so many people that didn't call in. I can't tell
you how many. When I was on the road, everybody
(44:13):
everywhere I went people asked this, And you know, I
must have coasted more than you that I remember, But
everybody always asked me about Rush. But what was he
really like? And was he really that good? And Bubba
he really well, I'm missing him, James, I'm having I'm
having having Rush rushed through me. He were channeling Rush
(44:35):
right now and he's saying he misses everybody, and he
loves everybody, and he's so grateful. And he really was grateful. Member.
He used to say, no matter what you've given me,
and no matter how much you think you've done for me,
is nothing, and compared, he would tell his orderence to
what they did for him, and how he was eternally
grateful and gratified by what this audience had given to
(44:59):
him and his family. And he really meant every single
word of that. Mary, I hope people realize how rare
that is, because he was completely not just rarefied atmosphere,
but his own level. You know, he was his own level,
and he always believed that. And that's such a rare
(45:20):
occurrence because I've seen too many James says. My James
has two people who get famous and then start believing
their own press. And this is not antiliar to the
right or the left. It's like everybody who gets famous
thinks they're untouchable, and they in a way, they become isolated.
I mean, you couldn't go out with rush I remember
we went to Patsy's once after his TV show, and
(45:41):
you know, I just couldn't go anywhere with him. So
it's isolating. But he always stayed genuine and knowledgeable and
not angry. He wasn't not There's no anger that fueled
his like it does so much in politics. The man
(46:02):
was a happy man who was born to do what
he was doing, and in Katherine found the love of
his life. And I think it's life changed a lot
when he moved to Florida to that was a lot.
That was a big I don't want to say. When
he could have a normal, kind of a normal life.
He could drive where he wanted to drive himself, he
didn't need to have people around him for security all
(46:23):
the time. He could have a somewhat normal life. Yes,
of course it wasn't a somewhat normal life because he
was so surrounded himself with objects of interest and beauty
and all. He wasn't in any way showing, but he
wanted to share it. Marry. He'd have the Spring Fling
every spring obviously did be sports people. And one year
(46:44):
I asked him to invite Vince Flynn and they became
great friends. And then he had the He had the
twenty four people one year, and he just shared everything.
He put everybody up when he got married, he and Katherine,
he put everybody up at that at that hotel hell
and we had hair day, you know, like he's just
so generous with his uh success and and she was
(47:11):
the biggest sharer of anybody an entertainer, um and and
and trying to and host. That's what I'm trying to
think of host. He's always made everybody so happy, comfortable, entertained,
and it was never a big foot about it, you know.
And I'll tell you another story like that right after. Well,
this was when we were first won the White House
(47:32):
in two thousand four, and I was then working with
I had two little babies. Our babies are a little bit.
I wanted to work with Dick Chase. I went back
in the White House, and the first thing Dick Cheney
wanted to do, and this was the first party we
planned at the Vice President's residence, was to do it
in honor of Rush, because Cheney understood what happened in
and he really loved Rush and respected Russian in many ways,
(47:55):
got the same kind of incoming that Rush got. So
then nine eleven happened, so we had to scrap everything
because Cheney and I could not be in town the
same time that Bush was the president was so for
continuity of government. So when we finally had it, it
was after he started losing his hearing, and that was
(48:17):
very frustrating for him. He couldn't be in a crowd.
It was too cacophonous for him, right, It actually was
painful for him to act and being a crowd and
half his cochlear implant, it was painful. And this was
even before his cochlear thing, and he was just he
was trying to deal with, you know, like the whole
that was another thing. Who else what is more important
(48:38):
to speech than hearing? Okay, communicating? He never lost his voice,
It never became unrecognizable. But I do remember that night,
how humble and moved he He wasn't but he couldn't
really hear everything. So I was sitting next to him,
trans not translating, you know what I mean, repeating everything,
(48:58):
and I knew ta he He's talked many times well
then at that time. I don't know if he got
a note or he talked about that party and how
he wished his dad had been around to see it.
And he again another instance of so beloved and and
so humbled and and so in a he was so
(49:20):
rarefied in in a way that every so many people admired.
But it never failed to surprise him. Never, he never
took it for granted. He was always in awe every
time he came to the White House. The man has
perpetual childlike awe and wonder over things historic in this
country and people who were true public servants, and they
(49:44):
just he was he and he and Dick Cheney had
a very lovely relationship. You everybody used to say, I
think I knew Rushed before anybody else in my world.
And they'd say, your reason, charge of Russia, And I'm
not in charge of him? And everything? Can I get
on rushed. Can you call Russian? I never never ever
ever called. He told me I could call for anybody,
(50:04):
and the only one I just made a liaison with.
And then he had his own relationships subsequent to the
first time was with Dick Cheney and he I think
he enjoyed those shows. I think they enjoyed each other.
Yes they did. It was apparent on the air that
they did, because you could almost feel the bond of camaraderie,
that they had your perseverance here and your devotion to
(50:25):
service you and you and rumsfelt both. I mean, you've
given your lives, your country, You've taken all kinds of
slings and arrows for it, and I just want you
to know that, Um, I am at the top of
the list among people have a great sense of appreciation
for what you've done. Well mean, in the world count
from you. Well, I'm I'm flattered, but but you really,
it's it's an honor to have have been able to know
(50:47):
you and get to know your family and and your friends,
and we wish you the best. Mr Vice President. Keep on.
So last thing, Mary, Here's legacy. What is Russia's legacy?
You know it's I try to separate out myself as
a friend and a mentee if you will, because he
(51:09):
really was a guiding force from my personal life in
addition to what I just said as an inspiration, but literally,
like I didn't want to write a book about our experience.
He goes, are you crazy? One percent of the people
in the world have ever done what you've done. You
owe it to them to to you owe it to
the public to say what it's like. If you're going
to tell the truth, I always tell the truth. So
you talked me into writing that book. And it turns
(51:32):
out I'm not a bad writer, and I write all
my stuff Longhand, And as you said, I come prepared
and I'm just you know, the firstborn girl child perfectionist.
And he made me do that and he opened up
all new horizons. So there's a personal legacy for me.
But his public legacy is in addition to what James said,
(51:55):
absolutely Tran talk about transformation. He was a transformational force
in the in the industry. But he I think in
history will show him to be the this era is
equivalent of like a Socrates. Do you know I know,
(52:15):
I'm know how I'm the dumbest man in the world.
That's how I know I'm smart, because I know how
much I don't know, and I am the smart And
he was the smartest man that I ever knew. But
he always was seeking and explaining virtue. And the essence
of a representative republican freedom is virtue. It takes virtuous people,
(52:36):
and virtue requires and freedom requires constant vigilance. And he
I think in the span of history it will he
will be understood by fair people, by fair historians, which
there aren't very many, as a pivotal, transformational, socratic type person.
(52:58):
And if I if you could flash forward, he was
in the modern era, post Enlightenment. He was more like
Edmund Burke than Rospierre, you know, like he a good revolution,
a controlled revolution, and incremental revolution, a constructive revolution. Uh.
He just I think his legacy will be that he
(53:20):
guided us through a very from the industrial age to
the information age, very very, very tricky, while maintaining the
principles that got us to the position that we could
continue to progress constructively and humanely and globally if we
(53:42):
if we had taken his and it wasn't his advice
and as the wisdom of the ages, and it was reality,
it was reality. I just think his legacy will will
really be that honestly, that transformational. And I think Catherine's too.
You know, she really brought the kind of support and
(54:02):
structure and love and faith and in him that that
he was always kind of not missing, but you know,
like she really hit that sweet spot. And man, im,
that's what I want to remember about him, is that
he found not just success, he found his true love
(54:24):
and his true place and his his his true life.
He lived his best life. And that's that's a legacy
in and of itself. Mary, I cannot thank you enough.
And I and and you know what, I also want
to thank you, not just for me, not just for
the time you did here, but you know, all of
us that love Rush, we thank you for being such
(54:47):
a good, steady, wonderful friend to our Rush. It was mutual.
And I want to just say this about Rush. There's
no body that ever was in the presence of the man,
ever that I know of liberals or conservatives or a
(55:07):
political people who didn't think he was the most gentlemanly, interesting, humble,
informative person they've ever met. And that's true. The man
was just he was just everything the likes of rush,
we're not going to see again and forever and and
(55:28):
and I have to call you. Ooh, he knew he
and you. I don't think he could have done it
without you, without the whole team, of course, but you
were like the his constant touchstone, like you know, everything
he said, he would take a look at you, or
how many times as he said, we're talking about this,
(55:50):
you don't believe you don't think that you disagree with me,
And it was it's like he was never you never talked,
which is so cool, Like you just we knew where
you were and he would describe it, said, behind the thing,
and it just was that. That was a beautiful relationship.
And I think a legacy too, because it's something that
some somebody can have for the length of time that
(56:10):
he had the same team. You have to be a
good person with loyalty which goes both ways to have
the kind of team that he had, which you were
the spearhead of. So we thank you both, Snarley, James,
Golden and best, best best for you and please let
me be a part of your life going forward. Oh yes,
you know you are. You know. I love you so much, Mary,
(56:32):
and thank you for everything. And thank you for doing
this with us. And you know it's just in a way.
I mean, I'm still heartbroken, Mary, but you know, just
speaking with you it brings its smiles. It smiles. You're
so handsome, You're so cute and so articulate. Please you
keep doing what you're doing. And I don't think anyone
(56:53):
can maintain in further the Limbaugh legacy better than you can. Both,
what an episode. Thank you, Mary Madlen and James Carville.
(57:14):
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I B. Mike, we have a treat today, and without
(02:14):
further introduction, Mary Mattlin and husband James Carvel, welcome both
of you to this podcast series. So we don't do
this together, I have to start by asking Mary and
James separately, when did you meet Rush? Mary gonna go first,
I thank you. I know you met him before I did.
Go ahead, I met him. We visited him and had
(02:38):
used to have an apartment like right on Fifth Avenue
in New York. And the first time I met him
was at his condo apartment whatever you call it was
Upper east Side, his Upper east Side digs and Mary,
you was that the time, honey? We went with Russert
and his wife with Tim, remember that we had dinner
(02:58):
at that but that was no that was at Central
when he lived in Central Park. We went and at
dinner with Russers. But Russian James ironically hit it off
and I knew Brush before he was rushed. We kind
of I think my dad turned me onto him in
the eighties, late eighties, and then we've been constant companions
(03:19):
since then, as James will tell you, since I never
turned him off. I miss seeing both of you. Remember
those Tim Russer Christmas shows, and we sure do missing
those of us who I mean, we love seeing your
family on Meet the Press with Tim Russer and I
gotta tell you Meet the Press. Of course, that was
back in the golden age of Meet the Press. James.
Let me, James elaborate on Meet the Press, because I
(03:40):
think this is a turning point in a lot of things.
When Tim Russer passed but interesting, sad, bitter sweet, but
tribute to Tim Russert in our relationship is, um James
tell him first of all, I think, James, you said
we were on there more than anybody else, Like, let's
elaborate at Tim. I don't know I was on I
(04:01):
was on that a lot. I don't know about more
than I think Bob Doe Will holds the whole time
record for me depress, but I could be the longest.
Probably changed since then. Um, well and I were just
they were like best friends. I mean we've had our
baseball tickets together with you know, professional basketball or Wizards
tickets together. His son and I did a top sports
(04:21):
talk radio show for some time. And uh, you're right.
When he died in June the first night we're in
New Orleans and and part of Washington journalism, I think
it died with Tim, but you know, it was just
it was one of those kind of similar events and uh,
you know it was to was to day. It's it's
(04:42):
difficult and it was, uh what twelve years ago, thirteen
years ago kind of order to believe it was the
first he died the first night that we were going
to spend in our house in New Orleans. So it
was it was almost to the date if you look
it up, maybe it was June eighth and ninth, the
day died, but before probably topa. I guess it would
be unfortunately, thirteenth year anniversary. Warm Alright. I don't want
(05:04):
to talk politics, because that is kind of not why
we're here. I do want to talk about Rush though. Now, James,
you know Rush had a nickname for you, what washing?
Somebody's Chelby? But what remind me again? It was serpent head. Yeah,
very calm any any nickname is good. Where that came from? Where? Um?
(05:32):
Jeb Bush? Well, it was a jabb or ales No, no, no, Jeb.
It was Jeff Bush. Because I was so smitten with James,
and I was on this rocket of a career trajectory
and I fell in love with him. And it was
in the middle of that campaign that I was running.
He was running Clinton's, and so everybody was like, who
is this guy? Nobody knew, And when Jeff saw my
(05:53):
TV goes that's it. That's the guy. And Roddrill said
this verse, he looks like I issue swam too close
to a nuclear reactor. And Jeff goes he it's like
a serpent head. I love you head. Well that quickly
be yeah, that quickly became. That quickly became your nickname
(06:15):
on the Russi Limbo Show and James, as you may know,
I don't know whether you know this or not. Rush
We had a lot of bits. Yeah, people would tell
me about it not you know, and that you know.
I never you know. It's part of being in a
public person. But you're right, married Right, every time I
get in her car that she had previously driven, it
(06:38):
would be on RUSH Radio. So I don't I think
I'd changed it right away to NPR. But but I
I think if I say something about Rush, if when
you've become famous, and I've noticed some right, people only
know you for what you're famous for, all right, So
(07:00):
if if you're a baseball player and you're famous, you
have a life outside of baseball, people are just not
that interested in it, are marginally interested in it, and
they want to talk to you about that. Well, obviously,
probably two people that Mary was closest to it was
Russian Vice President Cheney, and as a result of that,
(07:22):
I had to spend a fair amount of time and
but both of them word. They were multidimensional people. So
whoever I was gonna talk about politics, because I sure
they didn't agree to anything they said, and they would
say the same thing about me, but we could talk
about other things very easily. Was it wasn't a stilted
to force conversation that were They're both multidimensional people, so
(07:46):
you didn't have like uncomfortable small talk. And I think
that's something that's kind of important because, like I said, people,
when people come famous, they're only known for the thing
that they become famous for. But they have families, and
they have interests, and they have you know, children, or
(08:06):
they have any number of things that they deal with.
And I always found it, you know, easy to in
a social situation, uh, with both of these men and
not feel uncomfortable or anything like that. What did Dreames
tell my James tell Russia's James? What are Rush gave
(08:27):
us for a wedding present? Because that was one of
his things he knew a lot about. I said, let's
just say it was, hey gave us a magnum of
Obreon whoa of which, Yeah, it's pretty nice. I mean
it was any knew whe I mean he did, you
know and I would, I could talk, you know, vintages
(08:50):
with him or anything like that. And I uh, I
think we're gonna open it Thanksgiving if they it's getting
a little long in the tooth yet, I don't want
to sell it because you know when somebody gives you
a gift like that and they don't give it to sell.
And I still have it the Shanador Valley and it's
under control temperature, so I think that I think it
will drink just fine come November. The great cut post
(09:13):
COVID Thanksgiving, right, yeah, I'll tell you post COVID, I
just I'll spent a week in Las Vegas. You know
that was his re entry, James Golding, wonderful. Well, I'm
glad you. I am glad that you are post COVID. Now,
can I just get your reaction to this? Okay, So
(09:33):
those of us old enough to remember what the campaign
was like between Bush UH forty one and Bill Clinton,
remember it was a pretty heated campaign there. And then
comes this surprise, and you two took everybody by surprise
when news I don't know, was it leaked out or
(09:55):
did you announce it that you two were indeed in
love with each other and you were having a relationship.
How did what was the reaction at that time that
both of you encountered what we had a relationship prior
to the campaign. In fact, when I was doing the
Harris Wofford Race and the fall of but very well,
(10:18):
I've to go to the Durious three station in Philadelphia,
gorgeous building, you know, the angel holding the fallen soldier,
and uh, it was among people in Washington insiders, it
was pretty well. It was not the secret. I mean
we'd go to dinner together and do all kinds of things.
(10:38):
And and then once the campaign started, I think that
the public became sort of more aware of it. And
it's kind of funny for all of that and that campaign, Uh,
President H. W. Bush and President Clinton became really close.
I mean it was almost like an uncle to President Clinton.
And I'd go to the library, you know, and done
(10:59):
Evensford very you know, a couple three times, and you know,
always gracious and everything. And you know, it was a
different era in politics. And we'll just leave it at that.
Do you wish that that some of that Eric could
come back? I wish I was you know, forty eight. Again,
you know, nothing stays the same That's what people got
(11:20):
to realize. It is you're in a place now, but
you know, the place we were in is a different
place than we were in in two thousand and six,
which is a different place, and we're gonna be in
in two thousand and twenty six. I mean, I I
don't know exactly how it is this ends, but it's
the one thing I know. It'll morph into something else,
(11:41):
whether whether it moss into something better or worse. Uh,
promisic kind of got something better. But but it's what
it is right now. The Democrat part never James Carvill,
James Carvil, the Democrat Party that's never been, that's never been.
This polace in life boat. That was after Trump was elected.
(12:02):
James Kerver was on yesterday, Biden's gonna be Biden. He's
gaff pro but he got a hard to go, hard
to go all out there. You can't say another man
about on. Joe, Joe are the greatest guys in the
Democratic body. Leader that we need is exactly kind of leader.
He's a kind of the leader of the world. Day
Joe back. Over the course of this series, we've been
(12:22):
taking you on the biographical journey of Russia's life narrated
by his friends, family, and colleagues. Today we welcome Premier
Networks and nationally syndicated host George Norri. There's so many
commonalities between Russell and Bat and George Norri, both experienced
broadcasters from the Midwest and both from Missouri. Both broadcasters
(12:44):
host radio programs that are heard on over six hundred
radio stations daily, many of the affiliate stations bearing the
same call letters. George Norri is best known as host
of the Coast to Coast AM radio program All About
the Unexplainable now the incomparable George nor The Life of
(13:05):
Russia Limbaugh Chapter nine, narrated by George nor The nineties
drew new lines in the political battlefield, ultimately leading to
a hotly contested two thousand presidential election. But by the
time George W. Bush was inaugurated and the dust began
to settle, the era of compassionate Conservatism seemed poised for
(13:26):
smooth Saley. The Clinton presidency was in the rear view mirror.
The House had a Republican majority, and because Conservatives were
riding high, Russia's critics predicted, without anyone to complain about,
his show would soon be on the decline, and then
on a clear Tuesday morning, everything changed and debris is
(13:46):
just falling off the building. I mean it's underwardly looking
at the trade towers exactly when it happened. We need
to unite, We need to understand together. September eleven, two
thousand one profoundly impacted America, the presidency and Russia limbus.
All different sets of emotions start taking over. Then in
(14:08):
the course of the next few weeks, learned that I
knew people who lost people, family members and friends of
the World Trade Center. They are still not the same.
The tone of politics changed on a dime, and Russia's
audience grew dramatically as Americans turned to a familiar, soothing
voice to calm the chaos, pick up the pieces, and
(14:30):
move America forward. The Bush White House also recognized the
breach of his program, as both President Bush and Vice
President Dick Cheney became regular contributors. Welcome back to the
program the Vice President, Dick Cheney, Mr Vice President, thank
you as always, it's a it's an honor and a
delight to have you here with us. Great talk to
you again. After two successful terms and despite expertly guiding
(14:53):
America through an unprecedented crisis early in his administration. President
Bush left Washington with the waning popular the and a
miss harsh criticism. In the years that followed. Rush tried
to set the record straight. Bush was a solid leader
dealing with nine eleven of me. How in the world
you go from that perception to go to being approval,
(15:13):
hated and reviled. You do that by letting the media destraw.
You're not fighting back and not getting political because you
don't want to sully the office or whatever. To the end,
Russell Limbaugh had profound respect for his friend, President George W.
Bush and his stewardship of the American President's Bush has
been rehabilitated. In the eyes of the drive by media,
Bush is gracious. Now. What's missing in this transformation, of course,
(15:37):
Bush the evil, to Bush the gracious is the acknowledgment
that he has always comported himself this way. Despite the
relentless attacks these past eight years, George W. Bush has
been a class act. He considered Bush a strong leader
who was unfairly defined by his opponents, and for his part,
George W. Bush had a mutual respect for Rush, and
a statement after his death, Bush praised Russia's belief in
(15:59):
God in country as an indomitable spirit with a big
heart like his father before him. Perhaps the same could
be said about number forty three. Hey, James Golden, here,
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(17:04):
on to my pillow dot com, clicking on the new
radio listeners specials and use promo code icon. Lots of
incredible offers there. Now that's my pillow dot Com promo
code icon. Let me just say this to you, and
(17:24):
I'll get your reaction to it. I don't know whether
you two realizes it or not, but for a lot
of people um that that are really political people, I
believe that you two are an inspiration because in a
way you symbolize something. You symbolize that two people who
are on opposite ends of the political spectrum can still
(17:48):
have a very loving relationship with each other. You guys
have been married for a while, you have kids now
that have grown, and I can still hear the love
between both of you, and this is his apparent always
been a real thing with you since you've guys decided
you were in love with each other. And so do
you share the belief that this is somehow that this
(18:10):
is in a way you two are larger than yourselves. Well,
all right, and don't you have a long conversation with Mary.
I just I'll go back to the original thing is
if you're famously you're known for something, of course this
is the way that we're in the living. There was
a guy, I think Walter Shapiro, wrote a review of
our book, and his point was, it's not surprising that
(18:34):
something like this happened in Washington, but would really be
surprising if Mary married a tree surgeon in Idaho. I mean,
if you put thought that would have been you know,
if you put when you put you know, boys and
girls in the same kind of profession, you know, and
that there are other examples of of people like us.
(18:57):
I mean, I guess, you know, passed the baton to Kelly,
Anne and George with which I'm happy to do. But
like Anna been At and John Buckley, they were good
friends of ours. They were you know, definitely John Buckley
was one of the famous Buckley's of Connecticut. And Anna
ben it's a fort worth uh. And she's a very
accomplished poster. I worked, I thought in New Jersey some
(19:22):
So I mean that they're instances of it, because it's
just the way that nature is. When you start mixing
compounds someone we're gonna stick m and uh. And I
think that what's helped us as we maintain interest in
things outside of politics, I think that's it. I think
(19:42):
that's you know, we both have a describe as a
healthy interest in politics, and I don't deny that, but
we have, you know, all kinds of stuff, but we
also enjoy we enjoy so many other things, football, family, food,
friends history. Okay, now let's take the politics if we
(20:02):
can aside out of the question. All right, what do
you think Russian blaws legacy is going to be, James, Well,
I mean it saved an entire medium of communications. I
mean they saved a m radio. And the way that
you know a person's legacy is how many knockoffs did
(20:23):
he create? You know, let Mary go through the list
of names of people you know. And I want to
only limit my remarks to positive remarks, and would note
that not the appropriate time to make. But but but
but well, in a nation that is really divided into
(20:45):
people that think difficions is a problem, kind of harder
to say, what a divisive guy. But having said that,
what I'd like to focus on because you know, he
created a lot of knockoffs and none of them ever
became him. And that's that's when you you know you've
done something when you've got successful people imitating you. And
(21:10):
I know in my own life, I mean have any
talk radio, but I always take such pride and people
in the campaigns that worked for me to have gone
on to do a lot of great things. Uh, So
that that that's what you gotta feel good. No, I mean,
I'm sure that that rush. You know, I don't have
any doubt that he believed in the things that he said,
(21:32):
and I'm sure he had to take a certain amount
of pride that so many people imitated him, and that
I think is is I don't think anybody has had
that kind of you know, influence and the right wing
media at all. And I mean I was listening to
(21:53):
him and I was working in Kentucky, and I mean
it's like that's that that uh, you know, to do.
I'm sorry, but I couldn't do three hours of programming
five days a week for anything in the world, and
you know he was doing. I mean, he was not
(22:14):
an overly modest man, but be honest, in terms of
his professional career, he didn't have a lot to be
modest about. You know, I'll say I I you know,
and I love coming on here, but Marry, I don't
know how much she loved r I should love you.
And oh, I was glad that you all asked me
to participate for a few minutes in this. I'm happy
(22:35):
that you did, and I'm so happy that you did. James,
thank you so much. We do appreciate your time. You honey,
love you by now married the attention. I mean, actually
we can't talk together. This is how we why we
were halfway decent on Tim because he we just talk
(22:56):
over each other. But can I just pick up on
one point that that James made that's so important and
its it's tied a little bow around everything you've been
saying about this period, and there's things that people didn't
know about Rush. I mean, of course he was more talented.
He was talent on loan from God, and you too, James.
(23:19):
The other James were saying confusing and James, but he
picking up on that point that James made. In real life,
Rush was an overly modest, humble he had he knew
what the data was. But I think to the very
end he was moved, struck, shocked, awed by his own reach.
(23:40):
He also was a gentleman. He was courteous, he was gentle,
He was patient. He taught me how to use it
iPhone when in the flip phone days. He knew something
about He was a Polly math or self taught Polly
Matthew knew wine and no architecture, new aviation, economic spycraft.
The guy was a real renaissance man and that's why
(24:04):
that that's how I think of Rush and the other
thing that James used to st James listened to him
a lot when we were in the car together. He
does he could do more better than anybody I've ever seen,
including James. But this is one of James's talents make
the complex understandable. But it's just there's just now you
(24:28):
know everybody, I don't. I don't want to make comparisons,
but I don't know anybody else that had as deep
a philosophical and and literal understanding of so many topics.
And he had first principles, and he was steeped in history.
And you know what else he knew that I don't
know anybody else that knows is is he turned me
(24:51):
onto this is what real liberalism, real legacy socialism is like.
He understood liberals, if you really, and he inspired me
to do this. Read a lot about the Russian Revolution
and even proceeding that marks and you know, the Enlightenment
and all that. He knew the whole thread of history
that led to liberalism, and he understood how it became
(25:14):
a racket and how it beat, how it transited the globe.
And that's why he was always a step ahead of
He always knew what the Democrats were gonna do before
we even knew what was going on. One of the
problems I had with Rush early on was I was
kind of a hippie dippy, you know, environmentalist in my
old days, and he when it started to turn into
(25:36):
a racket, and he connected it to environmental wackos, which
I kind of understood, but I couldn't understand the motivation.
That was the other thing that he could suss out
and explain the motive. And he never attributed ill motives.
He attributed the reality he was. He was the mayor
of Realville, so he knew what they were gonna do,
(25:56):
and he would say these things that people go, oh, rush, oh, Rush.
And he was always literally literally sometimes decades, always years
ahead of where the culture and the zeitgeist was. He's
he's literally an all time twentieth century genius. I said.
I used to tell him it was uncanny. He would
(26:19):
make predictions about the way something would roll out, and
sometimes I would be one of those voices. I'll come
on Rush seriously, and within a few months or a year,
sometimes maybe longer, whatever he predicted would start to happen.
But you know the beauty the gift you gave him,
and you would challenge him, and you would poke holton him,
(26:40):
and you made his particularly as he was thinking. That
was another thing he did that I've never seen anybody
do with the aplom that he did it. He would
think out loud, and he would think in full paragraphs
and complete narratives. But you would push him at prod
him and pick at him and understand what he understood
(27:00):
was in his head. And he thought everybody knew you
guys were a great team, James, a fabulous team. Thank you. Well.
I wanted to know and I always found him interesting
and I wanted to know how he arrived at these conclusions.
And you know, he gave me the freedom to disagree
with him publicly, which was just amazing and astounding. And
he could sometimes tell by a look because I'd look
(27:21):
at him a certain way, Why are you looking at
me like that? Do you not agree? And that was
if I didn't, Okay, I don't, and why and then
he would explain it. He was wonderful that way. That's
the that is the hallmark of a genius is somebody
who is always challenging their own perspectives, their own ideas,
(27:42):
and is trying to understand how other people think and
how they're perceiving what he is that the person here,
she is saying he always hadn't and he liked to
be disagreed with, didn't y'all just always tee up the
liberals first? That's right, that's right. He would demand that
if someone disagreed, put him up at the top. I
want to talk to them first. These people are not
(28:03):
interested in democracy. They're not interested in representative democracy or
a republic. We are in a battle for the overall
kind of countries is gonna be. We're not in a
battle over who is going to win every four years.
We're not in a battle over who's going to be president,
who's going to run the senator, who's going to run
(28:23):
the House. The battle we are in is virtually and
literally about will this remain the United States of America
as founded? That is what is being waged here now,
Mary you um uh. The people that have been with us,
the lifers, the people that were with us for the
(28:45):
full ride, remember full well that in our very first
compliment of guest host, we had a guest host rotation.
Dr Walter Williams love him me too, Tony Snow, miss
m too, and Mary Mattlin. You're too kind, James, I
would know I'm not you were you were in our rotation.
(29:07):
You guest hosted the show many times. What was it
like when you sat down? We used to do the
show out of Washington, d C. A lot at the
ABC studios. UH their their headquarters in Washington, d C.
They allowed us to come in and use their studios
and they were always, by the way, very nice with us,
very gracious. Um and you used to come in in
(29:28):
those days, and I used to fly down. We used
to do the show from from those studios. What was
it like for you guest hosting the Russia Limbus show? Nobody,
and that is that you're You're only like a guest
in the orbit of Rush. But I think it was
pretty good when I forgot about those days in Washington,
because then I did have a daily radio show, which
(29:50):
when I cut my contracts, in no way I want
to be on any position except after Russia Limb but
I don't want to be on that. But I the two.
The thing that that I don't remember most is how
bad I sucked when I came up to New York
and I was frazzled and frenzied, and I was sitting
in his actual chair behind the e I b my
and I just could not get my ship together. And
(30:12):
you were so kind and you just the only highlight
of when I did that, and I was so terrible.
It's like a week was my dad came on and
devoted to my dad and the way Russia was devoted
to his dad, and it just that's what I remember,
is your kindness and my dad coming on and that
I was so inept in the world of Russian limbo.
(30:34):
And it really makes you understand the skill set that
he had in addition to being brainy, like radio is
the is the most pleasing medium if you're a chatter,
and it's what's the most difficult. And I do remember
always missing the heart out, always missing the clock, always
talking over people. So he thank you for having me on.
(30:57):
But I remember you kindly said, well you're in the rotation.
I said, well then you're gonna have a you're gonna
have a big loss of listeners. And now, folks, if
you didn't hear it, don't believe her. She was Mary
was great because I'll tell you one thing Mary always did,
which was come prepared, and Mary knew and knows subject
(31:17):
matter of politics like nobody else. I mean, this is
your this is I mean, I hear you saying that
you and James, you know, you don't talk about politics,
and maybe with the rest of the family you don't,
but you are a political person and you you understand politics.
You know it from the inside and the outside. All
of the stuff that's quote unquote in the weeds, you
(31:39):
understand that stuff, and you can talk about that stuff.
But you can also talk about big picture politics and
and all of that. And so that's what you brought
to the table. And I'm and that's what I know
you still bring to the table Mary, except I've banned
myself because I just this this environment is it's so
(32:00):
ugly and uncivil, and I don't want to be cliche
about it. But the speaking of the weeds, you mentioned
earlier that uh Russian I we were so on the
same wavelength and we went through so many campaigns together
that if I if and he knew a lot about politics,
as you knew a lot about everything, but he wouldn't
(32:21):
have these like blind spots. So I would email him
and in real time. I don't know how you guys
did this. In real time, he'd sort three find out
of his thousand emails a minute, he'd find the one
and he it would be just I just sent him
in a headline in the in the title, or a
quick sentence, uh where he was offered another fact to
(32:42):
add or some poll date or something I had that
he didn't know, and he seamlessly incorporated into his subsequent remarks.
And it just was I felt like we had such
a such a team thing going on. And then the
last year, I I I've never seen such courage and bravery.
(33:05):
I happened to have had health issues with contemporaneous lessly
with his and some of my friends were going too,
and my friends were going through the same thing. And
I don't know how he got up and went to
the studio as often as he did, and he put
off this team. I mean, if people don't, it's just
so unusual in this sort of I don't want to
(33:27):
say snow flaky, but this in the in this self
uh immediate gratification and uh un uncourageous and the easiest
way out side guys that we find ourselves in rush
showed the courage of of George Washington. I mean, I can't,
I can't even I don't even know how he did that.
(33:48):
Bo you were there, I mean, it just it just
stunning to me. And he made a huge difference and
he it. I really felt like he was going to
bring it over the line, just like he did in
which was amazing. Ye explained the marked to people by
the way he the ninth the Republicans had been but
(34:11):
we had been friends for some time here at that point.
I literally like a month after I got married, I
flew out to California for a book party. I think
he quit doing book parties, but this might have been
one of the very first books. And his mother was
that Millie was there, his beloved Millie. I loved her
and he so all the time that I knew him.
(34:33):
Preceding this, Republicans were wandering around in the desert and
they had been in the minority for over half a century.
And he became an honorary member of the Congress because
he they couldn't get there, and there you can see
this problem today. Republicans have a hard time speaking with
one voice because they're speaking into immediacy. Rush went above
(34:58):
that and laid out the principles and how the policies
of this uh, the New Gingridge Revolution at that time
was really Russia's revolution, how it how the first principles,
how these policies were predicated on these first principles, and
everybody was shocked. We won that. No one saw this
(35:19):
coming except for Russia. The Republicans won the majority, they won,
We won the New York governors that Rudy Giuliani. It
was a complete sweep. And I I credit and many
do too. And anybody who knows anything about policies and
how messages delivered and penetrates would attribute to the victory
(35:42):
and the finest victory in the last century for Republicans
to rush Limbaugh's and I can't call it anything else
but a campaign. His other completely transformational act was um
Operation Chaos. He watching fluence on politics way more than
anybody who's in politics. I shouldn't say that. That's a
(36:05):
little hyperbole, but he had as much influence as everyday
operatives have on politics. But in the big picture and
the historical picture there he had more influence than anybody else,
and that is fair to say. And towards the his
his let's say in the sixties when he and Katherine
(36:25):
started doing the history book. He had identified the problem
the way ahead of the curve, that we weren't learning
history right. So he's covered so many generations, uh with
with this unique talent of his, and it it just
I'm I can't even keep a train of phone. When
(36:46):
I think of him. My whole brain just smiles, It
just lights up. I just this everything about him was
such a special thing. He also was in real life.
This is a really main point about living happily in
all eras. That man had a sense of humor. Yes
he did. He was funny in the sophisticated way, and
(37:12):
he just was. He was always so much fun to
be around. I just I just miss him so much.
Dreams I miss him too. And some days I'm I mean,
all of us on were I think, you know, I
still have dreams I miss him. I was talking with
Dawn the other day and Dawn was saying, you know,
she still expects to wake up and just one day
(37:34):
all of us to be back in the studio together.
And it's just still really um, it's still mind numbing
that that that when did you find out he was sick? Well,
I guess I literally found out or when everybody else did.
But I knew, I just know. I mean, I just
I just I don't. This sounds weird, but we were
(37:56):
telepathically connected, and I knew something was freighting him before
didn't when he announced it. I just was not I
remember not being remotely surprised, just sad. And I thought
he was gonna beat it. I really thought he was
going to beat it. And I he I think he
(38:17):
I don't want to say, stepped up his game because
he never had a bad day even though he thought
he did. That's another thing. How many people, do you know,
do something as long as they he did that, who
come to work talk about being prepared, who come to
their job every day with the level of intensity and
depth that he did in those days. He come back
(38:39):
and said, look, yesterday, I don't think I did a
good job. I let me try. I he just who
keeps that that that self criticism and that self improvement
and that reaching for the stars uh as part of
their fundamental being? And he kept that on at a
whole different level, like a transcendent i'd given level in
(39:01):
his last year, and I and I could feel when
he was having good days and bad days, and it
had so screwed up his time, not his time even
looking at the clock. You know this because I never
saw many clocks as he did in that last year.
He was so in his zone. And I'm sure he
was doing it on all kinds of drugs too, because
(39:24):
you can't just take him, mom, And I still don't
to this. I've never I've never seen that, and we
can expect to never see that again. He's he's actually
a medical miracle, you know. He um he That's what
I said, And I was in one of the earlier
podcast I mentioned how at the end of his show
sometimes he would be so exhausted he couldn't even stand up,
he could barely stand up. But he gave everything that
(39:48):
he could into each one of those shows. And and
this was something else, you know, going into thirty three
years of being a syndicated holes before, before he real
eyes he was sick, before he realized that something was wrong,
Rush was still and even of course afterwards, but he
(40:08):
always gave it his best shot. He didn't mail it in,
he never mailed it. He was still excited about being
on the radio. This hadn't become just a dull routine.
To him, this was something that he honestly did believe
he was born to do, and he enjoyed it. This
is he loved it, and he gave it his best
(40:30):
every single day. You know when he used to say, uh,
more more fun than any human beings should be allowed
to have. That's how he lived his life. And you
know it wasn't without problems, and he overcame so many things,
as you and David's brother know and all that, but
(40:53):
he he never even phoned it in when he was
going through his various trials and tribulations like who doesn't
have those in life? And those trials and tribulations that
he overcame that were of his own doing, took enormous courage.
And then so much of the things he had to
overcome were externally imposed on him. And I know in
(41:15):
the beginning, now everybody knows we're in a psycho toxic
you know, social media world. But when people started coming
after him, I think it surprised an It hurt him
in a way that he didn't understand because he was
his person. He was never mean. Now, I don't know
how people ever thought he was mean. There was nothing
(41:35):
ever mean about him. Did he have a mean bonus?
I've never talked anybody. No, No, Nor was he racist,
nor was he bigoted, nor was he all these other
things that the left through on him as a means
of trying to hurt him and diminish his credibility. You know,
they came at him. What what we're all accused of
(41:58):
these days. You know, you want sovereign borders, you're a
racist if you like you know, whatever it is, you're racist,
no matter what. We know all that. But they did
that to him first. So in a way, he was
like a punching bag in a in a learning vehicle
or a preparation vehicle for now all of us that
(42:19):
are called racist at any moment. And you know before
that he was a misogynist, and and he was aside,
he was a a feminazi. That was my favorite thing
because I I left, I left the feminist whatever way.
I'm sixty eight, so we're kind of the same age. Well,
I could hang in with them when they said a
man a woman needs a man like a bike needs
(42:41):
a fish. And then they turned in all the id
politics instead of really, you know, equal opportunity and all
that and feminine you can't even use the word nots anymore.
But when he said feminazi, I just to this day
I crack up because it was so perfect and it
was such so port entious, like they were so untouchable
(43:03):
when he started doing that, and it was and he
really had the nail on the head. If I may
say this, A lot of feminists that took took feminism
in the wrong direction. He couldn't be not you know,
I don't really even want to say this, but he
knew what the problem, what the essence of that fanaticism
was as and it's the same with all kinds of
liberal fanaticism. He understood that and it never tainted his soul.
(43:28):
It just inspired him to get people to understand not
only what they were doing, what they were planning to do,
but what to do about it, and to keep doing it,
and to keep doing it and to keep fighting and
the other thing. Besides never being mean to anybody. He
I'm sure he had some depressed days, but you he
(43:50):
how many times did people call in and they were
crying or they're about to cry, or they were so forlorn,
or they've just given up, including people lost their jobs
and stuff. He would just talk him back from the brink.
And it's just that had such a magnifying force for
so many people that didn't call in. I can't tell
you how many. When I was on the road, everybody
(44:13):
everywhere I went people asked this, And you know, I
must have coasted more than you that I remember, But
everybody always asked me about Rush. But what was he
really like? And was he really that good? And Bubba
he really well, I'm missing him, James, I'm having I'm
having having Rush rushed through me. He were channeling Rush
(44:35):
right now and he's saying he misses everybody, and he
loves everybody, and he's so grateful. And he really was grateful. Member.
He used to say, no matter what you've given me,
and no matter how much you think you've done for me,
is nothing, and compared, he would tell his orderence to
what they did for him, and how he was eternally
grateful and gratified by what this audience had given to
(44:59):
him and his family. And he really meant every single
word of that. Mary, I hope people realize how rare
that is, because he was completely not just rarefied atmosphere,
but his own level. You know, he was his own level,
and he always believed that. And that's such a rare
(45:20):
occurrence because I've seen too many James says. My James
has two people who get famous and then start believing
their own press. And this is not antiliar to the
right or the left. It's like everybody who gets famous
thinks they're untouchable, and they in a way, they become isolated.
I mean, you couldn't go out with rush I remember
we went to Patsy's once after his TV show, and
(45:41):
you know, I just couldn't go anywhere with him. So
it's isolating. But he always stayed genuine and knowledgeable and
not angry. He wasn't not There's no anger that fueled
his like it does so much in politics. The man
(46:02):
was a happy man who was born to do what
he was doing, and in Katherine found the love of
his life. And I think it's life changed a lot
when he moved to Florida to that was a lot.
That was a big I don't want to say. When
he could have a normal, kind of a normal life.
He could drive where he wanted to drive himself, he
didn't need to have people around him for security all
(46:23):
the time. He could have a somewhat normal life. Yes,
of course it wasn't a somewhat normal life because he
was so surrounded himself with objects of interest and beauty
and all. He wasn't in any way showing, but he
wanted to share it. Marry. He'd have the Spring Fling
every spring obviously did be sports people. And one year
(46:44):
I asked him to invite Vince Flynn and they became
great friends. And then he had the He had the
twenty four people one year, and he just shared everything.
He put everybody up when he got married, he and Katherine,
he put everybody up at that at that hotel hell
and we had hair day, you know, like he's just
so generous with his uh success and and she was
(47:11):
the biggest sharer of anybody an entertainer, um and and
and trying to and host. That's what I'm trying to
think of host. He's always made everybody so happy, comfortable, entertained,
and it was never a big foot about it, you know.
And I'll tell you another story like that right after. Well,
this was when we were first won the White House
(47:32):
in two thousand four, and I was then working with
I had two little babies. Our babies are a little bit.
I wanted to work with Dick Chase. I went back
in the White House, and the first thing Dick Cheney
wanted to do, and this was the first party we
planned at the Vice President's residence, was to do it
in honor of Rush, because Cheney understood what happened in
and he really loved Rush and respected Russian in many ways,
(47:55):
got the same kind of incoming that Rush got. So
then nine eleven happened, so we had to scrap everything
because Cheney and I could not be in town the
same time that Bush was the president was so for
continuity of government. So when we finally had it, it
was after he started losing his hearing, and that was
(48:17):
very frustrating for him. He couldn't be in a crowd.
It was too cacophonous for him, right, It actually was
painful for him to act and being a crowd and
half his cochlear implant, it was painful. And this was
even before his cochlear thing, and he was just he
was trying to deal with, you know, like the whole
that was another thing. Who else what is more important
(48:38):
to speech than hearing? Okay, communicating? He never lost his voice,
It never became unrecognizable. But I do remember that night,
how humble and moved he He wasn't but he couldn't
really hear everything. So I was sitting next to him,
trans not translating, you know what I mean, repeating everything,
(48:58):
and I knew ta he He's talked many times well
then at that time. I don't know if he got
a note or he talked about that party and how
he wished his dad had been around to see it.
And he again another instance of so beloved and and
so humbled and and so in a he was so
(49:20):
rarefied in in a way that every so many people admired.
But it never failed to surprise him. Never, he never
took it for granted. He was always in awe every
time he came to the White House. The man has
perpetual childlike awe and wonder over things historic in this
country and people who were true public servants, and they
(49:44):
just he was he and he and Dick Cheney had
a very lovely relationship. You everybody used to say, I
think I knew Rushed before anybody else in my world.
And they'd say, your reason, charge of Russia, And I'm
not in charge of him? And everything? Can I get
on rushed. Can you call Russian? I never never ever
ever called. He told me I could call for anybody,
(50:04):
and the only one I just made a liaison with.
And then he had his own relationships subsequent to the
first time was with Dick Cheney and he I think
he enjoyed those shows. I think they enjoyed each other.
Yes they did. It was apparent on the air that
they did, because you could almost feel the bond of camaraderie,
that they had your perseverance here and your devotion to
(50:25):
service you and you and rumsfelt both. I mean, you've
given your lives, your country, You've taken all kinds of
slings and arrows for it, and I just want you
to know that, Um, I am at the top of
the list among people have a great sense of appreciation
for what you've done. Well mean, in the world count
from you. Well, I'm I'm flattered, but but you really,
it's it's an honor to have have been able to know
(50:47):
you and get to know your family and and your friends,
and we wish you the best. Mr Vice President. Keep on.
So last thing, Mary, Here's legacy. What is Russia's legacy?
You know it's I try to separate out myself as
a friend and a mentee if you will, because he
(51:09):
really was a guiding force from my personal life in
addition to what I just said as an inspiration, but literally,
like I didn't want to write a book about our experience.
He goes, are you crazy? One percent of the people
in the world have ever done what you've done. You
owe it to them to to you owe it to
the public to say what it's like. If you're going
to tell the truth, I always tell the truth. So
you talked me into writing that book. And it turns
(51:32):
out I'm not a bad writer, and I write all
my stuff Longhand, And as you said, I come prepared
and I'm just you know, the firstborn girl child perfectionist.
And he made me do that and he opened up
all new horizons. So there's a personal legacy for me.
But his public legacy is in addition to what James said,
(51:55):
absolutely Tran talk about transformation. He was a transformational force
in the in the industry. But he I think in
history will show him to be the this era is
equivalent of like a Socrates. Do you know I know,
(52:15):
I'm know how I'm the dumbest man in the world.
That's how I know I'm smart, because I know how
much I don't know, and I am the smart And
he was the smartest man that I ever knew. But
he always was seeking and explaining virtue. And the essence
of a representative republican freedom is virtue. It takes virtuous people,
(52:36):
and virtue requires and freedom requires constant vigilance. And he
I think in the span of history it will he
will be understood by fair people, by fair historians, which
there aren't very many, as a pivotal, transformational, socratic type person.
(52:58):
And if I if you could flash forward, he was
in the modern era, post Enlightenment. He was more like
Edmund Burke than Rospierre, you know, like he a good revolution,
a controlled revolution, and incremental revolution, a constructive revolution. Uh.
He just I think his legacy will be that he
(53:20):
guided us through a very from the industrial age to
the information age, very very, very tricky, while maintaining the
principles that got us to the position that we could
continue to progress constructively and humanely and globally if we
(53:42):
if we had taken his and it wasn't his advice
and as the wisdom of the ages, and it was reality,
it was reality. I just think his legacy will will
really be that honestly, that transformational. And I think Catherine's too.
You know, she really brought the kind of support and
(54:02):
structure and love and faith and in him that that
he was always kind of not missing, but you know,
like she really hit that sweet spot. And man, im,
that's what I want to remember about him, is that
he found not just success, he found his true love
(54:24):
and his true place and his his his true life.
He lived his best life. And that's that's a legacy
in and of itself. Mary, I cannot thank you enough.
And I and and you know what, I also want
to thank you, not just for me, not just for
the time you did here, but you know, all of
us that love Rush, we thank you for being such
(54:47):
a good, steady, wonderful friend to our Rush. It was mutual.
And I want to just say this about Rush. There's
no body that ever was in the presence of the man,
ever that I know of liberals or conservatives or a
(55:07):
political people who didn't think he was the most gentlemanly, interesting, humble,
informative person they've ever met. And that's true. The man
was just he was just everything the likes of rush,
we're not going to see again and forever and and
(55:28):
and I have to call you. Ooh, he knew he
and you. I don't think he could have done it
without you, without the whole team, of course, but you
were like the his constant touchstone, like you know, everything
he said, he would take a look at you, or
how many times as he said, we're talking about this,
(55:50):
you don't believe you don't think that you disagree with me,
And it was it's like he was never you never talked,
which is so cool, Like you just we knew where
you were and he would describe it, said, behind the thing,
and it just was that. That was a beautiful relationship.
And I think a legacy too, because it's something that
some somebody can have for the length of time that
(56:10):
he had the same team. You have to be a
good person with loyalty which goes both ways to have
the kind of team that he had, which you were
the spearhead of. So we thank you both, Snarley, James,
Golden and best, best best for you and please let
me be a part of your life going forward. Oh yes,
you know you are. You know. I love you so much, Mary,
(56:32):
and thank you for everything. And thank you for doing
this with us. And you know it's just in a way.
I mean, I'm still heartbroken, Mary, but you know, just
speaking with you it brings its smiles. It smiles. You're
so handsome, You're so cute and so articulate. Please you
keep doing what you're doing. And I don't think anyone
(56:53):
can maintain in further the Limbaugh legacy better than you can. Both,
what an episode. Thank you, Mary Madlen and James Carville.
(57:14):
On the next episode of Rush Limbaugh The Man Behind
the Golden E I B Microphone, Russia Limbaugh in print,
the most widely read political news letter in America was
the Limball Letter. Meet two of the people behind it,
the edit tricks of the Limball Letter, Diana a Loco,
and the creative director, Denise May. That's coming up in
(57:36):
our next episode. Rush Limbaugh The Man Behind the Golden
E I B Microphone is produced by Chris Kelly and
Phil Tower, the Best Producers in America, Production assistant Mike
Mamone and the executive producers Craig Kitchen and Julie Talbot.
Our program distributed worldwide by Premier Networks. Found on the
(57:57):
I Heart Radio app or wherever you list to your
favorite podcast. This is James Golden. This is both Snrvey.
This is James Golden. I'm honored to be your host
for this in every single episode of Russia Lumbaugh, the
man behind the Golden E I B microphone, Thank you
for being with us.
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