July 21, 2021 • 49 mins
Host James Golden (a.k.a. Bo Snerdley) explores Rush’s impact on radio with a couple of industry experts who knew and worked with him. Talkers Magazine founder Michael Harrison provides insight and shares stories from the start of Rush’s rise to fame. Also, former WABC/New York Program Director and current VP of Spoken Word for Salem Communications, Phil Boyce, talks about what it was like to work side by side with Rush (and James!) at his flagship station during the early days of the national radio show. This episode also contains an appearance from film and television star Nick Searcy, who narrates a special feature dedicated to the Trump era of the Rush Limbaugh show.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you missed any episodes of Russia Limbaugh The Man
behind the Golden E I B Microphone, you've missed more
great stories from some of Russia's closest friends, family, and colleagues.
All previous episodes are available now on I Heart Radio
or wherever you listen to your podcast. On this episode
(00:20):
of Russia Limbaugh The Man Behind the Golden E I
B Microphone, we'll be speaking with two industry icons, Michael
Harrison of Talkers magazine and Phil Boyce, who was the
program director at w ABC in New York when Rush
was there and was the p D who hired Sean Hannity,
currently VP of Spoken Word for Salem Communications. Whether you
(00:43):
listened every day you are at the E I B
Network and the Russia Limball program heard on over six
hundred great radio stations every now and then, nation's leading
radio and talk show, the most eagerly intisepated program. Stories
you've never heard from the people behind the scenes who
knew him best and loved him most. Rushman having more
funds the human being it could be allowed to have
(01:04):
Rush Limpough The Man behind the Golden E I D
Microphones hosted by James golden Through the Stand Up for
Betsy Ross campaign, you changed the lives of dozens of
hero families in need. The campaign benefited The Tunnels Are
Towers Foundation. Tunnel to Towers bills mortgage free smart homes
(01:25):
for our nation's most catastrophically injured veterans and first responders
to give them their independence. For gold star families and
fallen first respond to families with young children, Tunnel to
Towers pays off mortgages in full for these families and
(01:46):
provides them with the comfort of a home when their
world has literally been turned upside down. And thanks to
this campaign to Stand Up for Betsy Ross campaign, you
have seen to it that we have been able to
send a charital donation in total of five million dollars
(02:07):
to Tunnel the Towers. Your kindness, generosity, and patriotism brought
hope when it was needed most but more of America's
heroes in their families need your support. Donate eleven dollars
a month to Tunnel to Towers at T two t
dot org. That's the letter T the number two t
(02:28):
dot org. First up, the founder of Talkers magazine, Michael Harrison. Now, Michael,
you've you've interviewed dresslan Ball. You interviewed him early on.
But before we get to that, I'd like you to
tell our audience how it came to be that you
published the leading magazine for the entire talk radio industry.
(02:52):
I had a background in trade publishing and in broadcasting,
and i've i've I've always led a double life or
a double career of being involved in the trades and
also being involved in just about every end of being
on air or managing or I even owned a radio station.
I've been a program director, and I've been a personality,
(03:13):
and I've been involved in music radio and in talk radio.
In the trade arena, I was involved in the development
of Radio and Records. I was its first managing editor
when it started, and had also worked with Billboard magazine
and published a couple of newsletters and tip sheets along
the way. So uh, and I was doing talk radio
(03:34):
on a rock station in l A for eleven years,
and I always felt that when the nineties would would come,
this was during the eighties, that the nineties were going
to be the decade of talk radio, that talk radio
was going to become the dominant form of radio. So
I wanted to do it professionally as a broadcaster, and
(03:55):
I also wanted to be involved in it as a
trade publisher. So when came around, I decided to take
all the experience I had in both on air management
and trade publishing and put them into a trade publication
that dealt with talk radio back as if it were
(04:15):
the talk radio industry. We called it the the industry,
even though it was just at that time basically a
small portion of the radio industry. And uh, fortunately I
was right, and that was thirty one years ago. Talkers
Magazine is still operating and still thriving, thank goodness, for
which I'm very grateful and it's extremely gratifying. When did
(04:39):
you first meet When did you first become aware of
Russia Limball? How did that happen? I heard him on
the station that I had owned, UM shortly after I
sold the station, they put Rush Limbaugh on. I'm driving
down Route Highway ninety one in Springfield, Massachusetts, and I
hear on my former station, the that I owned, UM,
(05:01):
this is Rush Limball, and how I go, who the
heck is that? It was like it's like the first
time I heard Elvis Presley. I remember that I'm that old,
and I remember the first time I heard the Beatles.
I remember the first time I heard Rush Limbaugh on
the air, and it just came through the speakers like
(05:22):
a ton of bricks, that that voice, and and that
whole ownership of the airwaves, the ownership of the air
And that was the first time. And and of course,
being a student of the industry, I had not started
talkers yet, so I was in the process of thinking
about it. Obviously. Um, I asked, who who is this
(05:43):
Rush Limbo? First of all, the name is funny, rush Limball,
you know, and similar to Elvis Presley. When he first
showed up on the scene, the name sounded very funny.
People are making fun of it. They called him Elbow Parsley,
rush Limbaugh, and UM, you know, you become used to
a name after a while, and uh, we're certainly used
to the name rush Limbaugh now. But that's how I
(06:04):
first became aware of him. And it's very interesting. The
evolution that followed in terms of syndication during the midday
was not something that major market radio was very quick
to do. That was considered to be very daring to
put a syndicated program program on in the middle of
the day and Rush talked about that. By the way,
(06:26):
he was told at the time, this is never gonna work.
It's not going to work. Radio stations will not pick
you up, et cetera. But he went ahead and and
he and Ed McLaughlin. Did you know Ed McLaughlin? I,
I subsequently knew Ed. I did not know Ed personally.
He was a major executive at ABC Radio. So being
in the broadcasting business, I knew who he was, but
(06:46):
I had not yet met him or interacted or done
business with him. But I certainly knew who he was,
and I knew that his starting a syndicated venture after
leaving ABC was something to be taken seriously because he
was what we call in the business, a heavyweight, and
obviously he was. So let's let's advance you hear him,
(07:07):
this is before you started Talkers magazine. Correct, follow your
own evolution as a listener. Well, I certainly understood the
need to fill a void, because that's why I call
that positioning, and in radio, positioning is everything. And so
it immediately struck me that his approach to UH talk
(07:30):
radio from the conservative perspective, especially with humor, in many ways,
he was sort of what on the right, what Jon
Stewart was on the left. Heavy use of satire, heavy
use of humor, heavy use of production and entertaining elements
and parodies and wordplay and double entendres. Uh So he
(07:52):
was very entertaining and filled a void because talk radio
was political. It was post fairness doctrine, so you could
be opinionated without being too restrained by fear that you'd
be sense sword or sensored by the government. And uh,
I knew right away, Oh this tap, this makes total sense.
There's a there's a giant market out there for conservative
(08:16):
politics because, let's face it, most of the media was
either moderate or liberal, and conservative politics was marginalized as radical,
far right, very negative, pejorative. So I knew right away
this guy's got it all. He's positioned properly to fill
the political void, politics being the major topic of interest
(08:36):
on news talk radio. And he's entertaining and he sounds good.
His his mechanics were that of a really seasoned top
forty jock. He knew that mechanics. And I'm very, very
into mechanics because I just love radio, So I knew
this was a guy to watch. Explain what you mean,
because we have a lot of people here that are
not radio people. So when you say mc planics, okay,
(09:00):
what are they talk What is he talking about? What
is mechanics? But you know, people think you just get
on the radio and you sit there and you spout
your politics, you spout what you want to do. But
radio is a symphony. Radio is a combination. It's a
continuum of elements. There there's music, and there's commercials, and
there are breaks, and there's timing, and we're working our
way up to the clock and at one o'clock we've
(09:22):
got the news and then we'll be back. And there's
it's a whole dance of thirty second elements, ten second elements,
sixty second elements, bed music. Um, there's a pacing to it.
There's a sound and a texture to it that DJs
who came out of the sixties and the seventies and
(09:44):
the eighties inherently knew how to do. It's it's the reps.
It's if you want to be a pianist, you have
to learn how to make your fingers work on the
on the piano. If you want to be a baseball player,
you have to do batting practice. You have to you
have to learn how to throw, how to catch the
basic mechanics of an entity, and radio is the same way.
So and you can hear it right away. Rush played
(10:08):
the continuum of sound, the symphony of a sound of
a radio station or a radio show as one of
its elements. He knew how to integrate his voice into
that flow. I know it sounds esoteric and maybe I'm
over analyzing it. No you're not, because this is one
of the things that Russie Rush talked about this on occasion.
(10:29):
He would talk about it, but but he wouldn't talk
about it in depth the way that you are now
explaining it. What he would say is that radio is theater,
and you have to understand just as as an actor
would or or someone in the theater business. You have
to understand the theater. You have to understand and and
and there are no visuals, so what you have is
(10:53):
the complete attention of someone who's listening. It's an active
process to listen to somebody, as opposed to look at
something while you're busy doing something else. Absolutely, and and
and the theater is a perfect analogy. When you go
into a theater, there's the curtain, there's the chandelier at
the top of the roof. If it's if it's a
(11:13):
classic old theater, there's there's the whole atmosphere of the theater,
and then the lights go down, and then if it's
a musical, the orchestra comes up, and then the curtain
opens and the lights start. It's not just somebody standing
on a stage talking to you. There's a whole environment
and the actor or the writer or each of the
elements finds its place within this whole, you know, montage
(11:39):
of synchronized entities, and Rush brought that to talk radio,
so it's like listening to a music radio station with
the station's format was part of the program, was it
was actually part of the show. The format was part
of the show. He did that in Talk before anybody else,
and um, that is one of the things that made
(12:03):
him successful. Obviously he brought content and and a lot
of intelligence and other things to it. But that was
the first thing I noticed was his position politically that
he's filling a gap and that's good for democracy, and
that's good for radio because people that feel left out, disenfranchised,
hungry for that type of a point of view, empowered
and and franchised as opposed to disenfranchised. They would like that,
(12:26):
but they're also radio listeners, and a radio listener knows
when they're hearing the radio that it's not television. When
you hear a television soundtrack on radio, it doesn't sound
like a radio station. It sounds like there's something different
about it has a hollowness to it. This was full
radio and that voice. It just was the right package
at the right time. But I definitely think that his mechanics,
(12:49):
back to that word, were one of the pillars upon
which his success was built. AM radio was in trouble
at that time. People were wondering if AM radio would
survive five talk about that for a moment please. AM
radio was in big trouble, and, as I think Chris
Christofferson wrote in the Janice Joplin hit, freedom is just
another word for nothing left to lose. There was nothing
(13:11):
left to lose. FM radio was eating AM Radio's lunch
with the music. It just didn't sound as good. So
here's what happened AM radio. First, of all radio fans
post war Baby boomers uh knew how to use radio.
They grew up with radio and they knew what AM
radio was, so they were not strangers to the dial um.
(13:33):
Talk sounded good on AM. The aforementioned fairness doctrine was repealed,
which means now you can talk about politics and have
opinion without having to hold back for fear that you're
not giving every side at the proper exposure. And that's
impossible to do because there are more sides two sides
than anybody can believe. It's very subjective. So rather than
be fair and have more points of view on the air,
(13:55):
radio station said we're not messing with this, they just
never talked about anything controversial. That was gone, so controversial
politics suddenly was was fair game. The post war baby
boomers that grew up with pop radio and AM rock radio, Um,
we're getting older and suddenly interested in politics, Suddenly interested
in taxation, suddenly interested in in in various aspects of
(14:18):
freedom of government, of community, education, health care, public safety,
foreign affairs, all of these things suddenly were of interest
to basically the same audience that grew up listening to
rock and roll. The demographic shift had happened. They were
getting older, so suddenly the audience was was there for that.
(14:42):
And the thing that Rush did and that talk radio
did was it provided uh, the listeners with something that
was important in their life, something that was more than
just back crowned. It was it was heavy duty, It
(15:03):
had teeth, It reflected the culture, and radio to succeed,
going all the way back to the beginning, unlike other
forms of media, had to be hip, grassroots, the sound
of the street, uh, the everyday person, and RUSSI accomplished
that and and and as a result, it kept AM
(15:25):
Radio alive, and I think to a certain extent, it
kept all of radio alive. Not only you, my professor,
but you're also a friend and a mentor and somebody
that I've looked up to and I dare say a hero,
uh due to the value that the true life values
that you have expounded out there. I remember many years
(15:45):
ago you spoke to being able to get a job,
and you talked about the different levels and what's required
and whether it was a high school, college education. And
I think that the top level of that had something
to do with integrity and respect. And I think that
those are parts of values that you teach out there
that are invaluable. And I just I'm thankful that I've
been able to experience you for all these years and
many years to come. Well, I thank you very much.
(16:07):
You know, I'm I'm always flattered and deeply appreciative when
I find out how detailed people's listening is, and you
have heard the details and they've obviously made an impression
on you. I remember many of the times, not all,
I'm sure, but I remember many times I've talked about
getting a job, versus finding a career, versus becoming productive,
(16:33):
versus finding what it is that you are born to do.
We are all born to do something, including be lazy.
Some people just have to find what what they were
born to do, and it's a rewarding thing to get
calls like yours. I deeply and and profoundly appreciated. In
(16:57):
each episode, we've been documenting the story of Russia's life,
narrated by some of his closest friends and colleagues. This
week a good friend of the program, a good friend
of mine, the actor, the director, and he was a
guest host once on the Rustling Ball program, none other
than our friend Nick Sercy. The Life of Russia Limbaugh,
(17:20):
Chapter eleven, narrated by Nick Searcy. After the election of
Barack Obama in two thousand and eight, Russia Limbaugh was
immediately concerned for the direction America was headed as he
intuitively sensed the growing loss of freedoms and liberty to
come over the next eight years, and as the end
of the Obama regime neared, Russia's listeners trusted him more
(17:43):
than ever as Conservatism's most vocal champion and opinion maker.
As a well known businessman, a non political outsider, started
gaining steam in a long shot bid for the Republican
presidential nomination, Rush made clear where his priority stood. Whatever
you think I'm advocate aiding, it's not because I care
what happens to the Republican Party. I care about what
(18:04):
happens to America, and I know that any more of
what we've had the last eight years, it's gonna be America.
But it's not gonna be America. You and I know.
As then candidate Donald J. Trump took off on a
meteoric rise, the mainstream media and political pundits were dumbfounded
by his success and his refusal to play by the usual,
tired set of rules. But Russ knew early on that
(18:27):
Trump was different and why he connected with the American people.
He's real, he isn't phony, he is not politically correct,
and he's fearless. He's not afraid to tell people what
he actually thinks about other people or things. Trump is
showing that the things the Republican Party is afraid of
(18:47):
are baseless. They don't need to be afraid. With his
signature insight, Limbaugh told his listeners why the experts were
failing to understand the man who was promising to make
America great again. Despite the scores of critics and doubters,
Trump never gave up, and he campaigned relentlessly right until
the early morning hours of election day, November eight, two
(19:08):
thousand sixteen. So it's so officially Tuesday November. Did you
ever think you'd be hearing a major speech like it
around close to one o'lock in the morning? Are we phrasey?
And as America came alive the next morning, it discovered
Trump had shocked the world with a decisive win over
(19:30):
Hillary Clinton. For his part, Rush became one of President
Trump's most vocal advocates throughout his presidency and the election.
He saw Trump as a uniter who would be good
for America in the long run. He is out trying
to get as many people in this country as he
can to join his movement. He's not trying to lose.
He's not trying to clean things up and make the
(19:52):
party something that it isn't. He's trying to rename it,
reshape it, so that is a party of victory. And
what's the slogan, America great again? America First. Everything he's
talking about is real. The outcome of the last presidential
election of Russia's lifetime didn't produce the results for which
he had hoped. And if the world ever needed his
(20:13):
insight and commentary, it does today more than ever. But
if you listen close, even though the Golden E I
B microphone sits empty, through the speakers of radio stations
across the country, you can still hear the man we
knew and loved for more than thirty years. The voices
offering their opinion on the radio now may be different,
(20:33):
but the footsteps in which they follow undoubted belong to
Rush Limbaugh. Hey, James Golden, here, you know what it's
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(21:37):
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code icon. Lots of incredible offers there. Now that's my
pillow dot com promo code icon. Back with Michael Harrison. Mike,
(22:00):
when did you meet Rush? I met Rush? Uh, it
was I think it was nine. I met Rush on
the telephone when I interviewed him for the second issue
of Talkers magazine. UM, but I met him personally. I
believe it was at the National Association of Broadcasters convention
in San Francisco, in which he and I were on
(22:22):
the same panel, and UM the panel had a couple
of other people. I think ron Owens from KGO and
San Francisco was on it, and the conversation was or included,
is it possible for a national syndicated personality to to
appropriately put a mid day on on a major market
(22:43):
radio station. That was the issue. It was that outrageous,
and the audience was a little hostile to Rush and
very positive about ron Owens and UM. I believe the
moderators were Kennan Daria Dolan, and I was on there
as the observer. Talker was only one year old at
the time, but fortunately we already were very popular and
I was the I was the impartial observer UM and
(23:07):
that was where I met Rush Limbaugh. You know, one
of the things that I've thought for years is that
so many broadcasters and not just broadcasters. It's it's because,
as you know, this is an industry that, to use
a political phrase, trickles down into other areas. Jobs are
not just created in a radio and just where you
(23:29):
have the jobs that come from advertising, you have all
the jobs that come from the advertising support, and it
goes on and on. So Rush coming in and and
and doing what he did for radio at such a
critical time, one would think that there would be this
swell of appreciation for it. Yet you mentioned there was
(23:52):
a little bit of hostility. What did you attribute that to? One,
A lot of people in the business felt he was
taking away jobs because, UM, I don't know, maybe there
were a hundred stations fifty two, it was far less
than today. Um, during the original ascent of Rush Limbaugh
and what I call the modern era of talk radio.
(24:12):
So a lot of a lot of radio personalities felt
he was taking away their jobs. There was the feeling
that it was sacrilegious to have something that wasn't local
on a radio station in the middle of the day.
So there was hostility towards that. And I have to
say that at that time, most of the ownership and
most of the people in the radio business were of
(24:33):
a moderate to liberal bent, and they found his politics
offensive and disagreed with it. So the combination of what
they perceived to be taking away jobs, which which mathematically
turned out not to be absolutely true. And we can
talk about that if you want to. But um, there
was hostility from an industrial standpoint, in terms of the
economics of it, the aesthetics of it, in terms of
(24:55):
local versus national, and uh, politically, Um, there wasn't a
fully developed conservative constituency within the radio business. Um And
And one of the interesting things James that happened in
that encounter because I was on the panel with him,
and we also had dinner together. UM. I had dinner
(25:16):
with Rush and the Dolans, and that was a very
interesting dinner. But I had an encounter with him in
the whole way. Um withstanding, it was just the two
of us, and he looked at me and he said, Michael,
I have a question I want to ask you. Maybe
you can give me an honest answer. I said, sure, Rush.
What he said, how come people don't like me? Blew
me away. It blew me away when he said, how
(25:38):
come people don't like me like I like like today
in the panel, I just get the sense that people
in this business don't like me. I think. He then,
you know, specifically pointed out as in this business. And
I looked at him and I said, hey, they're jealous.
Don't worry about it. Because I knew this guy was
was heading for start um. I mean, it was just
(25:58):
obvious to me. I've always been prey about that type
of thing, and I certainly was in that time. But
I said, don't worry about it, they're jealous, but he
was very The thing that I learned and that moment
was that he even though he's tough and and and
and uh, you know, his teeth, as I said before,
in terms of what he did on the air, personally,
(26:20):
I got the impression that he's a very sensitive individual
and was first coming around to understanding what it was
like to be a public figure, even though the public
in this case was in the industry. Who who meets
with tremendous resistance and enemies? And I think it should
come up a little bit, you know that. It is
really an interesting observation. Let's and you mentioned before the jobs.
(26:43):
I do want to hear what you have to say
about that. Well, he did take jobs from people that
would be local on the stations that he was installed at,
but conversely, he created more stations as a result of
the success he brought to the format. So he may
have taken one job or two jobs from each station
(27:04):
that existed when he first emerged on the scene. But
as a result of Rush Limbaugh, hundreds of radio stations
across America turned to the talk format, which created countless jobs,
from management to sales to on air to engineering. So
I sat down and figured it out because it was
a major issue. The guy's taking jobs. He's not taking
(27:25):
jobs at all. He was making jobs in terms of
the total sum of his impact. Michael, here's the here's
the money question, as it were, What is the legacy
of Russia Limbaugh in the radio industry and beyond? Will
there ever be anyone that does what Rush was able
(27:49):
to do by way of accomplishment in this industry. I
certainly hope somebody comes along and gives a shot in
the arm to this industry going forward that would be
equal or greater than Rush, But I doubt that's going
to happen. I do believe there will be other media,
other platforms, other chapters of history, and other great movements.
So you know, I'm a I'm a believer in the future,
(28:10):
and I'm optimistic. But in terms of the time and
space the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty
one century that Rush Limbaugh operated in, I think his
legacy will be that he was certainly one of the
greatest I'm not talking about whether I agree with him politically,
just one of the greatest broadcasters of the first one
(28:30):
hundred years of radio UH and a major figure in
keeping radio iconic and pertinent. And I believe also he
will go down in history as being one of the
most influential leaders of the modern conservative movement, the American
conservative movement of the late twentieth century and early twenty
(28:53):
one century. And that's a hell of a lot, it
really is. Let me give you my view for a
moment on honest this. You know, I when I first
started with Rush, he was the first radio host I
had ever heard that integrated email, this new thing that
people were using. And back then he was using compu serve,
(29:14):
used to give his compu Serve address out invite listeners
to to UH to to be in contact with them,
and in real time during the show would read some
of those emails and respond to them and integrated that.
And well, of course today we have this direct messaging
all over the place, instant messaging, and now it's text.
Now it's instantaneous that you can get through. We have
(29:36):
entire social media platforms built on interactivity. When Rush started
and and and as the show became what it was,
it wasn't just radio. Television changed. What you mentioned about
radio and the ownership was certainly true. Of television too.
There was no conservative space on television for conservative politics.
(30:02):
That has changed. The publishing world has changed, and that
happened after Rush too. So my own view is that
he is all of that and more in radio, but
his impact on electronic and print media is sometimes not recognized.
What do you think about that? I think you're absolutely
right as a matter of fact, as you were saying,
(30:23):
and I'm going, yeah, I missed that. That's that's definitely
part of it. He definitely was a catalyst for our
evolution during the aforementioned time from the analog era to
the digital era in terms of communications, and that of
course goes way beyond any of the individual media platforms
(30:44):
that we've cited. It really ties into a rapid jump
ahead in terms of the wiring of the human nervous system.
I mean, the way we're wired, the way we think,
the way we are ties into this analog to digital
transition which he did play a major role in in catalyzing.
So yeah, I agree with you fully, Michael. This has
(31:06):
been a real treat Um. You and I have known
each other for quite a while, UM, and you are
just an incredible force in this industry. You know, It's
amazing that you your passion and you were equipped, you
were born to do what you're doing, apparently because you
had this dual interest in radio and in trade publications,
(31:28):
and you were able to execute both of them flawlessy.
And thanks to you you have we have now an
informed media. You are doing something unique, and you've done
something unique in this industry, and you are just one
of the giants, and so it is certainly our honor
and pleasure to have you here with us today. Thank
(31:49):
you so much for saying that. I really appreciated, James,
and Um, I wish you and everybody associated with that
great chapter of broadcasting history the best going forward. Thank you.
This whole experience, not one bit of it is work,
not one bit of it. It is all just more
fun than I've ever had in my life. It is
(32:10):
absolutely no hardship whatsoever to fly around the country to
see people, to be on the radio, or any of that.
You enjoy my show, and I appreciate that more than
you'll ever know. I don't want to beat this into
the ground. I'm sure you've all felt like you aren't
going to ever amount to anything, even though you knew
you were capable of and I felt that way. The
(32:32):
only difference between you and me is that I'm up
here and you're out there, And the only reason I'm
up here is because you're out there. Right. It's true
you may enjoy my show, but I'll tell you people,
especially you people, you don't know it. So I'm gonna
tell you you rejuvenated my life because a successful radio
(32:54):
person is not a success simply because he does what
he does. People have to listen to it, appreciate it,
and support it. And everybody in this room has. I
mean for me six years ago to be mired in
loneliness and aimlessly walking through life and then to come
here and have tickets sell out in two hours, My friends,
that hits me in the heart like nothing you can
(33:16):
ever imagine will nothing you can ever imagine will Well. Today,
we are so pleased to have a man. His title
in the business is about a paragraph long, and I'm
gonna read one sentence of it, so the rest of it,
you know, would take about half an hour. Phil Boyce,
(33:38):
the senior vice president of Spoken Word for Salem Media Group.
Now this is I think impressive on a number of levels.
Salem is a competitor, but yet Phil is here with us,
and Phil welcome. James, Thank you so much. It's an
honor to be on with you. I think I met
you in when I joined w ABC as program director.
(34:04):
The station at the time when I got there was
the most listened to the news talk station in the nation.
And I'll never forget sticking my head around the corner
and seeing you sitting there at the control seat of
the E. I B Network with Kick Carson and I
think it was Brett winter Bull. It was like looking
into the Starship Enterprise and seeing uh Spock and Kirk
(34:28):
and Zulu and you guys were at the center of
the universe. I mean at that time, this was so
You've been doing the syndicated show with Rush for I
think seven or eight years. You guys were the top
of the world at that time, and you stayed there.
That was the amazing thing. You stayed there for a
(34:49):
long long time. Now, you already alluded to the to
Rush when you came into w A b C and
you saw him. What was it like the first time
you met Rush? Well, I want to go back for
the first time I heard Rush coming out of the
speaker because That's a Kennedy like moment for me. I
remember where I was and what I was doing when
I first heard Rush Limbaugh coming out of the speaker.
(35:11):
So I was the news director in Denver of Khal
kho W and I had worked the morning ship. So
I was driving home in the middle of the day
and I was in the car right next to the
Wiltshire Hills golf course when Rush comes out of the speaker.
Apparently somebody was on vacation at k o A that
day and Ed McLaughlin convinced them to try Rush for
(35:32):
a day. Well, I was immediately blown away. I mean,
this guy was saying things that I had been thinking
in a way that I had never heard anybody before.
And back at Khal, we had been thinking about going talk.
We were still playing music back in and we we
just didn't have the right talent. We needed horses to
(35:54):
do it. And I drove back to the station, went
into the g MS office right that moment, and I said,
turn on k Away, You've got to hear this guy.
He's the guy we need to get to build the
station around. So he did, and he liked Rush, and
he called his boss, the president of viacom Bill Figgenshu,
and he asked Bill Figgenshu, could we grab this guy
(36:16):
Rush Limbaugh. Apparently he's available. And Bill Figginshu said, you
know what, that guy's not gonna make it. He was
my roommate when we were both rock chocks at KQB
in Pittsburgh, and he was a slab. He left half
eaten pizza in boxes around the apartment. I don't think
he's gonna make it. No, you cannot do that. He's
(36:36):
not gonna make it. Well, of course we know the
rest is history. Uh. But and and Bill Figgershu was
a nice guy. He just missed it. A lot of
people missed it on Rush Rising like he did. But
you know, stations that picked up Rush back in the
day would get massive complaints from listeners who just hated Rush.
(36:58):
But what they didn't understand was that every time somebody
hated Rush, two or three or four people fell in
love with him, and by the time they started looking
at the numbers, he was just like on fire. So
by the time I got to W A. B C.
And I was so honored to be the PD of
a station with Rush. I mean I was in Detroit
for four years trying to get Rush off the other station,
(37:19):
and they were so loyal they wouldn't move him over
to w j R, even though I was a fifty
one flamethrower and he was on a pea shooter. They
were loyal to that station. And I always admired that
about how they built the Russia Limbaugh network. They were
very loyal to those that went with them at the beginning.
And so now you're at w ABC. You're the program
(37:41):
director at w ABC. This is the flagship station. By
the way, it was the flagship station, the most iconic
call that is perhaps in the radio industry. And here
you are program director and Russia Limbaugh is the lead
show on w ABC. Now take use. What was it
your first interactions with Rush? Well, the thing that amazed
(38:03):
me about Rush was how humble he was. And I'll
never forget walking down the hallway to his office to
stick my head in and ask him about something. And
I said, you know, I've only been there a few weeks,
and I said, Rush, I just have to tell you
what an honor it is for me to be the
p D of w ABC, where you are our lead
(38:24):
lead pony. And this has been a dream come true
for me. I've been an admirer of you for years
and now I get to work with you. And you know,
he was embarrassed, he was humble. Uh. He didn't react
the way I expected. Uh. And I saw him like
that in many occasions. Here's Rush Limbaugh, the king of
talk radio by that time, and he was always a
(38:47):
little bit embarrassed and shy to be given that kind
of high praise. And I admired that about him because
he didn't take it for granted. He knew the humble
beginning he had. You know, here's a guy that had
been a rock jock. I mentioned Pittsburgh. He had been
a rock jocks seven different places and fired seven different
(39:10):
a M rockers. And I think he was probably fired
because he wanted to talk. He didn't want to play rock.
He wanted to talk, and the p d s said,
drive him crazy, and they would eventually get tired of
his talking and fire him until finally one day somebody said,
you know, you need to be on a talk station.
They put him on in Sacramento. The p D There
(39:30):
is a friend of mine, Tyler Cox. He's the guy
that put him on in Sacramento. I think it was
KF B K and uh he just took off. He
took off like Gangbusters. So yeah, it was a joy
and an honor for me to to work with Rush
and working with him in New York. Do you recall
any story that stands out about the experience, that just
(39:52):
stands in your mind? Is this maybe the singular story?
And I'm sorry if I put you on the spot
with that one, philm No, no you didn't. I to
tell two stories, but the first one is what happened
to me at w ABC one year into my fourteen
year run there. So uh wait, wait, wait, wait what
second home on my second Folks? A fourteen year run
(40:17):
at any radio station for a program director is an
amazing feat. I just wanted to insert that. It is.
It's like a hundred years and dog years. And I'm
convinced one of the reasons I lasted fourteen years was
because I had Rush Limbaugh. Because with Rush Limbaugh, you
(40:39):
could tear the station down to nothing. As long as
you had Rush, you could rebuild it around Rush. And
you know why, I know that I did that so
and and it did take five years to build w
ABC back. I didn't know if I get five years.
You know, they treat us like NFL head football coaches.
They hire you one year, they expect Super Bowl the next.
(41:00):
It took me five years to rebuild the damage that
we had done and bring in the talent like Hannity
and Levin, and we got back to the most listen
to the news talk station in the nation in two
thousand one. And it was that year that I told
Sean Hannity, we want to syndicate you after Rush Limbaugh,
and I'm convinced that it's because of Russia limbaugh success.
(41:22):
We were able to syndicate Hannity, and before long, Hannity
became the fastest growing syndicated talk show host in history.
Because what happened to Hannity was amazing because we syndicated
him on and you know what happened on day two
of Hannity in syndication. Happened and Sean knocked off Dr
(41:45):
Laura a hundred places in six months. So he became
the fastest growing syndicated host in history. Okay, Phil, So
one question for you, as time quickly evaporates, what do
you think Russia's legacy he will be not just in
the radio industry, but in the largest sense for the country. Yeah,
(42:06):
I think he'll go down as a icon of our time.
I think he will go down much bigger than just
the guy who we did talk radio and we launched
talk radio, or the grandfather of talk radio. I think
he'll be an icon of our time in his wisdom,
(42:27):
in his knowledge, in the things that he said that
resonated with people. The thing that I always will never
forget is people who hear Rush for the first time
say he's saying what I'm thinking, and nobody else is
saying it for the first time. When he came on
the scene, we realized we weren't alone those of us
(42:47):
who thought this way. And today we need that kind
of wisdom more than ever. Uh. We'll never forget Rush,
will never forget the legacy, will never forget what he
taught us, and will benefit from it for many many
years to come. What was it like for you when
you saw Rush being given the Middle of Freedom Award
by President Trump? Well, I admit I teared up a
(43:08):
little bit because I realized, first we're getting close to
the end for Rush. I don't think I realized that
till I saw him there. You know, he had just
come out. I think of rehab or or some kind
of cancer treatment when he went up on on the
platform there at the Capitol, and uh, but to see
them give him a standing ovation. And I know the
(43:30):
Democrats didn't stand, but the Republicans did and showed him
so much praise. But what really amazed me, Well, I
talked about the humility of Russia Limbaugh. He was genuinely
touched by that, and that I will never forget. Here's
a guy who had it all, but you could still
bring him to tears by giving him a much deserved
(43:54):
honor and that meant a lot to a lot of people. Well,
speaking of an honor, Phil, this is in a real
honor for me. You have been one of the most
incredible success stories of our time in the radio business.
And more importantly to me, um than all of that,
(44:16):
you are a great and decent human being. You treat
people with respect, you treat people with kindness. You can
be a demanding boss when you have to be. I
know this from experience, but even in those circumstances, you
do it without being demeaning and without making someone feel bad.
(44:40):
And let me tell you, there are so many bad
actors in that people come across during their careers. It
is truly a pleasure and an honor to be to
know someone that's really one of the good guys, and
that's who you are. Well, now you're making me feel embarrassed,
sort of like I made Rush feel embar us. I
(45:01):
really appreciate you saying that. Uh, you know, you never
know in this business. You know, we joked about fourteen
years being a hundred years and dog years as a
p D in this format, you never know when they're
going to call you in and say that's it. Here's
a box, put your stuff in it. Uh, and security's
gonna escort you out. You really don't. And for me
(45:22):
to be still in this business, still doing what I
get to do, Uh, it's just an honor. And uh,
you know, look, I give credit to God. God wanted
me here, He gave me this career and I'm honored
to do it every day. And thank you so much
for what you said, because James, you're the same way.
I mean, you're You're one of the kindest, most decent
(45:44):
people I've had the privilege of working with in this business.
So let's let the good guys succeed. Amen to that.
Thank you so much. Phil We really appreciate you that
having you here. Thank you, James. What is American exceptional
is just not that we're better people. It's not that
we're smarter. It's not that we have an advantage because
of our geography, because we clearly don't. But what what
(46:06):
is it that sets us apart? And there's one answer,
and it's found in the Declaration of Independence. We're all
endowed by our Creator, so we acknowledge God as a
country when we were founded, we acknowledge God that we
were all created. We are rolling down by our Creator
(46:28):
with certain inalienable rights, undeniable. They're just there and they
come from the Creator among them, but not just life, liberty,
pursuit of happiness. That's pretty simple to me. Those three things,
the acknowledgement of our creation by God, loving God, that
(46:51):
our creation, that our that our spirit has this natural
yearning to be free and to be happy, and that
there's nothing wrong with either of thom. There's nothing wrong
with being created, nothing wrong with being happy or trying
to be and there's certainly nothing wrong with living. It
was that codification that made one crucial thing possible, and
(47:14):
that is for ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things. Not
the smartest, not the brightest, not the wellborn, not the richest. Ordinary.
This is a nation. It became the greatest nation in
human history. However, many hundreds of thousands, billions, whatever years
(47:37):
you want to say, we've been plotting the earth, ordinary
people accomplishing extraordinary things. Thanks to Michael Harrison and Phil Boyce,
coming up on our next and final episode of this series,
loaded with special treats. First of all, the broad cast
(48:00):
engineer for almost the entire length of the Russiland Black Program.
Our good friend Mike Mamone joins us for a few moments. Plus,
We're going to share the thoughts and words of many
of those in Russia's world, whose voices you already know
because they sat in the seat they were the guest
host on the show. If that weren't enough, we have
(48:21):
a very special v I P guest who will share
his thoughts on Russia, lan Ball, none other than the
forty President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, will
join us for a few minutes as well. All that
in our jam packed final episode, Russia. Limbaugh, The Man
behind the Golden E I B Microphone, is produced by
Chris Kelly and Phil Tower, the best producers in America,
(48:46):
Production assistant Mike Mamone and the executive producers Craig Kitchen
and Julie Talbot. Our program distributed worldwide by Premier Networks.
Found on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you
listen to your favorite podcast. This is James Golden. This
is both Snerdley, This is James Golden. I'm honored to
(49:06):
be your host for this in every single episode of Russia. Lumbaugh,
the man behind the Golden E I B microphone, thank
you for being with us,
If you missed any episodes of Russia Limbaugh The Man
behind the Golden E I B Microphone, you've missed more
great stories from some of Russia's closest friends, family, and colleagues.
All previous episodes are available now on I Heart Radio
or wherever you listen to your podcast. On this episode
(00:20):
of Russia Limbaugh The Man Behind the Golden E I
B Microphone, we'll be speaking with two industry icons, Michael
Harrison of Talkers magazine and Phil Boyce, who was the
program director at w ABC in New York when Rush
was there and was the p D who hired Sean Hannity,
currently VP of Spoken Word for Salem Communications. Whether you
(00:43):
listened every day you are at the E I B
Network and the Russia Limball program heard on over six
hundred great radio stations every now and then, nation's leading
radio and talk show, the most eagerly intisepated program. Stories
you've never heard from the people behind the scenes who
knew him best and loved him most. Rushman having more
funds the human being it could be allowed to have
(01:04):
Rush Limpough The Man behind the Golden E I D
Microphones hosted by James golden Through the Stand Up for
Betsy Ross campaign, you changed the lives of dozens of
hero families in need. The campaign benefited The Tunnels Are
Towers Foundation. Tunnel to Towers bills mortgage free smart homes
(01:25):
for our nation's most catastrophically injured veterans and first responders
to give them their independence. For gold star families and
fallen first respond to families with young children, Tunnel to
Towers pays off mortgages in full for these families and
(01:46):
provides them with the comfort of a home when their
world has literally been turned upside down. And thanks to
this campaign to Stand Up for Betsy Ross campaign, you
have seen to it that we have been able to
send a charital donation in total of five million dollars
(02:07):
to Tunnel the Towers. Your kindness, generosity, and patriotism brought
hope when it was needed most but more of America's
heroes in their families need your support. Donate eleven dollars
a month to Tunnel to Towers at T two t
dot org. That's the letter T the number two t
(02:28):
dot org. First up, the founder of Talkers magazine, Michael Harrison. Now, Michael,
you've you've interviewed dresslan Ball. You interviewed him early on.
But before we get to that, I'd like you to
tell our audience how it came to be that you
published the leading magazine for the entire talk radio industry.
(02:52):
I had a background in trade publishing and in broadcasting,
and i've i've I've always led a double life or
a double career of being involved in the trades and
also being involved in just about every end of being
on air or managing or I even owned a radio station.
I've been a program director, and I've been a personality,
(03:13):
and I've been involved in music radio and in talk radio.
In the trade arena, I was involved in the development
of Radio and Records. I was its first managing editor
when it started, and had also worked with Billboard magazine
and published a couple of newsletters and tip sheets along
the way. So uh, and I was doing talk radio
(03:34):
on a rock station in l A for eleven years,
and I always felt that when the nineties would would come,
this was during the eighties, that the nineties were going
to be the decade of talk radio, that talk radio
was going to become the dominant form of radio. So
I wanted to do it professionally as a broadcaster, and
(03:55):
I also wanted to be involved in it as a
trade publisher. So when came around, I decided to take
all the experience I had in both on air management
and trade publishing and put them into a trade publication
that dealt with talk radio back as if it were
(04:15):
the talk radio industry. We called it the the industry,
even though it was just at that time basically a
small portion of the radio industry. And uh, fortunately I
was right, and that was thirty one years ago. Talkers
Magazine is still operating and still thriving, thank goodness, for
which I'm very grateful and it's extremely gratifying. When did
(04:39):
you first meet When did you first become aware of
Russia Limball? How did that happen? I heard him on
the station that I had owned, UM shortly after I
sold the station, they put Rush Limbaugh on. I'm driving
down Route Highway ninety one in Springfield, Massachusetts, and I
hear on my former station, the that I owned, UM,
(05:01):
this is Rush Limball, and how I go, who the
heck is that? It was like it's like the first
time I heard Elvis Presley. I remember that I'm that old,
and I remember the first time I heard the Beatles.
I remember the first time I heard Rush Limbaugh on
the air, and it just came through the speakers like
(05:22):
a ton of bricks, that that voice, and and that
whole ownership of the airwaves, the ownership of the air
And that was the first time. And and of course,
being a student of the industry, I had not started
talkers yet, so I was in the process of thinking
about it. Obviously. Um, I asked, who who is this
(05:43):
Rush Limbo? First of all, the name is funny, rush Limball,
you know, and similar to Elvis Presley. When he first
showed up on the scene, the name sounded very funny.
People are making fun of it. They called him Elbow Parsley,
rush Limbaugh, and UM, you know, you become used to
a name after a while, and uh, we're certainly used
to the name rush Limbaugh now. But that's how I
(06:04):
first became aware of him. And it's very interesting. The
evolution that followed in terms of syndication during the midday
was not something that major market radio was very quick
to do. That was considered to be very daring to
put a syndicated program program on in the middle of
the day and Rush talked about that. By the way,
(06:26):
he was told at the time, this is never gonna work.
It's not going to work. Radio stations will not pick
you up, et cetera. But he went ahead and and
he and Ed McLaughlin. Did you know Ed McLaughlin? I,
I subsequently knew Ed. I did not know Ed personally.
He was a major executive at ABC Radio. So being
in the broadcasting business, I knew who he was, but
(06:46):
I had not yet met him or interacted or done
business with him. But I certainly knew who he was,
and I knew that his starting a syndicated venture after
leaving ABC was something to be taken seriously because he
was what we call in the business, a heavyweight, and
obviously he was. So let's let's advance you hear him,
(07:07):
this is before you started Talkers magazine. Correct, follow your
own evolution as a listener. Well, I certainly understood the
need to fill a void, because that's why I call
that positioning, and in radio, positioning is everything. And so
it immediately struck me that his approach to UH talk
(07:30):
radio from the conservative perspective, especially with humor, in many ways,
he was sort of what on the right, what Jon
Stewart was on the left. Heavy use of satire, heavy
use of humor, heavy use of production and entertaining elements
and parodies and wordplay and double entendres. Uh So he
(07:52):
was very entertaining and filled a void because talk radio
was political. It was post fairness doctrine, so you could
be opinionated without being too restrained by fear that you'd
be sense sword or sensored by the government. And uh,
I knew right away, Oh this tap, this makes total sense.
There's a there's a giant market out there for conservative
(08:16):
politics because, let's face it, most of the media was
either moderate or liberal, and conservative politics was marginalized as radical,
far right, very negative, pejorative. So I knew right away
this guy's got it all. He's positioned properly to fill
the political void, politics being the major topic of interest
(08:36):
on news talk radio. And he's entertaining and he sounds good.
His his mechanics were that of a really seasoned top
forty jock. He knew that mechanics. And I'm very, very
into mechanics because I just love radio, So I knew
this was a guy to watch. Explain what you mean,
because we have a lot of people here that are
not radio people. So when you say mc planics, okay,
(09:00):
what are they talk What is he talking about? What
is mechanics? But you know, people think you just get
on the radio and you sit there and you spout
your politics, you spout what you want to do. But
radio is a symphony. Radio is a combination. It's a
continuum of elements. There there's music, and there's commercials, and
there are breaks, and there's timing, and we're working our
way up to the clock and at one o'clock we've
(09:22):
got the news and then we'll be back. And there's
it's a whole dance of thirty second elements, ten second elements,
sixty second elements, bed music. Um, there's a pacing to it.
There's a sound and a texture to it that DJs
who came out of the sixties and the seventies and
(09:44):
the eighties inherently knew how to do. It's it's the reps.
It's if you want to be a pianist, you have
to learn how to make your fingers work on the
on the piano. If you want to be a baseball player,
you have to do batting practice. You have to you
have to learn how to throw, how to catch the
basic mechanics of an entity, and radio is the same way.
So and you can hear it right away. Rush played
(10:08):
the continuum of sound, the symphony of a sound of
a radio station or a radio show as one of
its elements. He knew how to integrate his voice into
that flow. I know it sounds esoteric and maybe I'm
over analyzing it. No you're not, because this is one
of the things that Russie Rush talked about this on occasion.
(10:29):
He would talk about it, but but he wouldn't talk
about it in depth the way that you are now
explaining it. What he would say is that radio is theater,
and you have to understand just as as an actor
would or or someone in the theater business. You have
to understand the theater. You have to understand and and
and there are no visuals, so what you have is
(10:53):
the complete attention of someone who's listening. It's an active
process to listen to somebody, as opposed to look at
something while you're busy doing something else. Absolutely, and and
and the theater is a perfect analogy. When you go
into a theater, there's the curtain, there's the chandelier at
the top of the roof. If it's if it's a
(11:13):
classic old theater, there's there's the whole atmosphere of the theater,
and then the lights go down, and then if it's
a musical, the orchestra comes up, and then the curtain
opens and the lights start. It's not just somebody standing
on a stage talking to you. There's a whole environment
and the actor or the writer or each of the
elements finds its place within this whole, you know, montage
(11:39):
of synchronized entities, and Rush brought that to talk radio,
so it's like listening to a music radio station with
the station's format was part of the program, was it
was actually part of the show. The format was part
of the show. He did that in Talk before anybody else,
and um, that is one of the things that made
(12:03):
him successful. Obviously he brought content and and a lot
of intelligence and other things to it. But that was
the first thing I noticed was his position politically that
he's filling a gap and that's good for democracy, and
that's good for radio because people that feel left out, disenfranchised,
hungry for that type of a point of view, empowered
and and franchised as opposed to disenfranchised. They would like that,
(12:26):
but they're also radio listeners, and a radio listener knows
when they're hearing the radio that it's not television. When
you hear a television soundtrack on radio, it doesn't sound
like a radio station. It sounds like there's something different
about it has a hollowness to it. This was full
radio and that voice. It just was the right package
at the right time. But I definitely think that his mechanics,
(12:49):
back to that word, were one of the pillars upon
which his success was built. AM radio was in trouble
at that time. People were wondering if AM radio would
survive five talk about that for a moment please. AM
radio was in big trouble, and, as I think Chris
Christofferson wrote in the Janice Joplin hit, freedom is just
another word for nothing left to lose. There was nothing
(13:11):
left to lose. FM radio was eating AM Radio's lunch
with the music. It just didn't sound as good. So
here's what happened AM radio. First, of all radio fans
post war Baby boomers uh knew how to use radio.
They grew up with radio and they knew what AM
radio was, so they were not strangers to the dial um.
(13:33):
Talk sounded good on AM. The aforementioned fairness doctrine was repealed,
which means now you can talk about politics and have
opinion without having to hold back for fear that you're
not giving every side at the proper exposure. And that's
impossible to do because there are more sides two sides
than anybody can believe. It's very subjective. So rather than
be fair and have more points of view on the air,
(13:55):
radio station said we're not messing with this, they just
never talked about anything controversial. That was gone, so controversial
politics suddenly was was fair game. The post war baby
boomers that grew up with pop radio and AM rock radio, Um,
we're getting older and suddenly interested in politics, Suddenly interested
in taxation, suddenly interested in in in various aspects of
(14:18):
freedom of government, of community, education, health care, public safety,
foreign affairs, all of these things suddenly were of interest
to basically the same audience that grew up listening to
rock and roll. The demographic shift had happened. They were
getting older, so suddenly the audience was was there for that.
(14:42):
And the thing that Rush did and that talk radio
did was it provided uh, the listeners with something that
was important in their life, something that was more than
just back crowned. It was it was heavy duty, It
(15:03):
had teeth, It reflected the culture, and radio to succeed,
going all the way back to the beginning, unlike other
forms of media, had to be hip, grassroots, the sound
of the street, uh, the everyday person, and RUSSI accomplished
that and and and as a result, it kept AM
(15:25):
Radio alive, and I think to a certain extent, it
kept all of radio alive. Not only you, my professor,
but you're also a friend and a mentor and somebody
that I've looked up to and I dare say a hero,
uh due to the value that the true life values
that you have expounded out there. I remember many years
(15:45):
ago you spoke to being able to get a job,
and you talked about the different levels and what's required
and whether it was a high school, college education. And
I think that the top level of that had something
to do with integrity and respect. And I think that
those are parts of values that you teach out there
that are invaluable. And I just I'm thankful that I've
been able to experience you for all these years and
many years to come. Well, I thank you very much.
(16:07):
You know, I'm I'm always flattered and deeply appreciative when
I find out how detailed people's listening is, and you
have heard the details and they've obviously made an impression
on you. I remember many of the times, not all,
I'm sure, but I remember many times I've talked about
getting a job, versus finding a career, versus becoming productive,
(16:33):
versus finding what it is that you are born to do.
We are all born to do something, including be lazy.
Some people just have to find what what they were
born to do, and it's a rewarding thing to get
calls like yours. I deeply and and profoundly appreciated. In
(16:57):
each episode, we've been documenting the story of Russia's life,
narrated by some of his closest friends and colleagues. This
week a good friend of the program, a good friend
of mine, the actor, the director, and he was a
guest host once on the Rustling Ball program, none other
than our friend Nick Sercy. The Life of Russia Limbaugh,
(17:20):
Chapter eleven, narrated by Nick Searcy. After the election of
Barack Obama in two thousand and eight, Russia Limbaugh was
immediately concerned for the direction America was headed as he
intuitively sensed the growing loss of freedoms and liberty to
come over the next eight years, and as the end
of the Obama regime neared, Russia's listeners trusted him more
(17:43):
than ever as Conservatism's most vocal champion and opinion maker.
As a well known businessman, a non political outsider, started
gaining steam in a long shot bid for the Republican
presidential nomination, Rush made clear where his priority stood. Whatever
you think I'm advocate aiding, it's not because I care
what happens to the Republican Party. I care about what
(18:04):
happens to America, and I know that any more of
what we've had the last eight years, it's gonna be America.
But it's not gonna be America. You and I know.
As then candidate Donald J. Trump took off on a
meteoric rise, the mainstream media and political pundits were dumbfounded
by his success and his refusal to play by the usual,
tired set of rules. But Russ knew early on that
(18:27):
Trump was different and why he connected with the American people.
He's real, he isn't phony, he is not politically correct,
and he's fearless. He's not afraid to tell people what
he actually thinks about other people or things. Trump is
showing that the things the Republican Party is afraid of
(18:47):
are baseless. They don't need to be afraid. With his
signature insight, Limbaugh told his listeners why the experts were
failing to understand the man who was promising to make
America great again. Despite the scores of critics and doubters,
Trump never gave up, and he campaigned relentlessly right until
the early morning hours of election day, November eight, two
(19:08):
thousand sixteen. So it's so officially Tuesday November. Did you
ever think you'd be hearing a major speech like it
around close to one o'lock in the morning? Are we phrasey?
And as America came alive the next morning, it discovered
Trump had shocked the world with a decisive win over
(19:30):
Hillary Clinton. For his part, Rush became one of President
Trump's most vocal advocates throughout his presidency and the election.
He saw Trump as a uniter who would be good
for America in the long run. He is out trying
to get as many people in this country as he
can to join his movement. He's not trying to lose.
He's not trying to clean things up and make the
(19:52):
party something that it isn't. He's trying to rename it,
reshape it, so that is a party of victory. And
what's the slogan, America great again? America First. Everything he's
talking about is real. The outcome of the last presidential
election of Russia's lifetime didn't produce the results for which
he had hoped. And if the world ever needed his
(20:13):
insight and commentary, it does today more than ever. But
if you listen close, even though the Golden E I
B microphone sits empty, through the speakers of radio stations
across the country, you can still hear the man we
knew and loved for more than thirty years. The voices
offering their opinion on the radio now may be different,
(20:33):
but the footsteps in which they follow undoubted belong to
Rush Limbaugh. Hey, James Golden, here, you know what it's
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Don't forget the incredible slippers from my Pillow. They're available
(21:37):
from my Pillow. They have a level of comfort you
need to experience. Log on to my pillow dot com,
clicking on the new radio listeners specials and use promo
code icon. Lots of incredible offers there. Now that's my
pillow dot com promo code icon. Back with Michael Harrison. Mike,
(22:00):
when did you meet Rush? I met Rush? Uh, it
was I think it was nine. I met Rush on
the telephone when I interviewed him for the second issue
of Talkers magazine. UM, but I met him personally. I
believe it was at the National Association of Broadcasters convention
in San Francisco, in which he and I were on
(22:22):
the same panel, and UM the panel had a couple
of other people. I think ron Owens from KGO and
San Francisco was on it, and the conversation was or included,
is it possible for a national syndicated personality to to
appropriately put a mid day on on a major market
(22:43):
radio station. That was the issue. It was that outrageous,
and the audience was a little hostile to Rush and
very positive about ron Owens and UM. I believe the
moderators were Kennan Daria Dolan, and I was on there
as the observer. Talker was only one year old at
the time, but fortunately we already were very popular and
I was the I was the impartial observer UM and
(23:07):
that was where I met Rush Limbaugh. You know, one
of the things that I've thought for years is that
so many broadcasters and not just broadcasters. It's it's because,
as you know, this is an industry that, to use
a political phrase, trickles down into other areas. Jobs are
not just created in a radio and just where you
(23:29):
have the jobs that come from advertising, you have all
the jobs that come from the advertising support, and it
goes on and on. So Rush coming in and and
and doing what he did for radio at such a
critical time, one would think that there would be this
swell of appreciation for it. Yet you mentioned there was
(23:52):
a little bit of hostility. What did you attribute that to? One,
A lot of people in the business felt he was
taking away jobs because, UM, I don't know, maybe there
were a hundred stations fifty two, it was far less
than today. Um, during the original ascent of Rush Limbaugh
and what I call the modern era of talk radio.
(24:12):
So a lot of a lot of radio personalities felt
he was taking away their jobs. There was the feeling
that it was sacrilegious to have something that wasn't local
on a radio station in the middle of the day.
So there was hostility towards that. And I have to
say that at that time, most of the ownership and
most of the people in the radio business were of
(24:33):
a moderate to liberal bent, and they found his politics
offensive and disagreed with it. So the combination of what
they perceived to be taking away jobs, which which mathematically
turned out not to be absolutely true. And we can
talk about that if you want to. But um, there
was hostility from an industrial standpoint, in terms of the
economics of it, the aesthetics of it, in terms of
(24:55):
local versus national, and uh, politically, Um, there wasn't a
fully developed conservative constituency within the radio business. Um And
And one of the interesting things James that happened in
that encounter because I was on the panel with him,
and we also had dinner together. UM. I had dinner
(25:16):
with Rush and the Dolans, and that was a very
interesting dinner. But I had an encounter with him in
the whole way. Um withstanding, it was just the two
of us, and he looked at me and he said, Michael,
I have a question I want to ask you. Maybe
you can give me an honest answer. I said, sure, Rush.
What he said, how come people don't like me? Blew
me away. It blew me away when he said, how
(25:38):
come people don't like me like I like like today
in the panel, I just get the sense that people
in this business don't like me. I think. He then,
you know, specifically pointed out as in this business. And
I looked at him and I said, hey, they're jealous.
Don't worry about it. Because I knew this guy was
was heading for start um. I mean, it was just
(25:58):
obvious to me. I've always been prey about that type
of thing, and I certainly was in that time. But
I said, don't worry about it, they're jealous, but he
was very The thing that I learned and that moment
was that he even though he's tough and and and
and uh, you know, his teeth, as I said before,
in terms of what he did on the air, personally,
(26:20):
I got the impression that he's a very sensitive individual
and was first coming around to understanding what it was
like to be a public figure, even though the public
in this case was in the industry. Who who meets
with tremendous resistance and enemies? And I think it should
come up a little bit, you know that. It is
really an interesting observation. Let's and you mentioned before the jobs.
(26:43):
I do want to hear what you have to say
about that. Well, he did take jobs from people that
would be local on the stations that he was installed at,
but conversely, he created more stations as a result of
the success he brought to the format. So he may
have taken one job or two jobs from each station
(27:04):
that existed when he first emerged on the scene. But
as a result of Rush Limbaugh, hundreds of radio stations
across America turned to the talk format, which created countless jobs,
from management to sales to on air to engineering. So
I sat down and figured it out because it was
a major issue. The guy's taking jobs. He's not taking
(27:25):
jobs at all. He was making jobs in terms of
the total sum of his impact. Michael, here's the here's
the money question, as it were, What is the legacy
of Russia Limbaugh in the radio industry and beyond? Will
there ever be anyone that does what Rush was able
(27:49):
to do by way of accomplishment in this industry. I
certainly hope somebody comes along and gives a shot in
the arm to this industry going forward that would be
equal or greater than Rush, But I doubt that's going
to happen. I do believe there will be other media,
other platforms, other chapters of history, and other great movements.
So you know, I'm a I'm a believer in the future,
(28:10):
and I'm optimistic. But in terms of the time and
space the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty
one century that Rush Limbaugh operated in, I think his
legacy will be that he was certainly one of the
greatest I'm not talking about whether I agree with him politically,
just one of the greatest broadcasters of the first one
(28:30):
hundred years of radio UH and a major figure in
keeping radio iconic and pertinent. And I believe also he
will go down in history as being one of the
most influential leaders of the modern conservative movement, the American
conservative movement of the late twentieth century and early twenty
(28:53):
one century. And that's a hell of a lot, it
really is. Let me give you my view for a
moment on honest this. You know, I when I first
started with Rush, he was the first radio host I
had ever heard that integrated email, this new thing that
people were using. And back then he was using compu serve,
(29:14):
used to give his compu Serve address out invite listeners
to to UH to to be in contact with them,
and in real time during the show would read some
of those emails and respond to them and integrated that.
And well, of course today we have this direct messaging
all over the place, instant messaging, and now it's text.
Now it's instantaneous that you can get through. We have
(29:36):
entire social media platforms built on interactivity. When Rush started
and and and as the show became what it was,
it wasn't just radio. Television changed. What you mentioned about
radio and the ownership was certainly true. Of television too.
There was no conservative space on television for conservative politics.
(30:02):
That has changed. The publishing world has changed, and that
happened after Rush too. So my own view is that
he is all of that and more in radio, but
his impact on electronic and print media is sometimes not recognized.
What do you think about that? I think you're absolutely
right as a matter of fact, as you were saying,
(30:23):
and I'm going, yeah, I missed that. That's that's definitely
part of it. He definitely was a catalyst for our
evolution during the aforementioned time from the analog era to
the digital era in terms of communications, and that of
course goes way beyond any of the individual media platforms
(30:44):
that we've cited. It really ties into a rapid jump
ahead in terms of the wiring of the human nervous system.
I mean, the way we're wired, the way we think,
the way we are ties into this analog to digital
transition which he did play a major role in in catalyzing.
So yeah, I agree with you fully, Michael. This has
(31:06):
been a real treat Um. You and I have known
each other for quite a while, UM, and you are
just an incredible force in this industry. You know, It's
amazing that you your passion and you were equipped, you
were born to do what you're doing, apparently because you
had this dual interest in radio and in trade publications,
(31:28):
and you were able to execute both of them flawlessy.
And thanks to you you have we have now an
informed media. You are doing something unique, and you've done
something unique in this industry, and you are just one
of the giants, and so it is certainly our honor
and pleasure to have you here with us today. Thank
(31:49):
you so much for saying that. I really appreciated, James,
and Um, I wish you and everybody associated with that
great chapter of broadcasting history the best going forward. Thank you.
This whole experience, not one bit of it is work,
not one bit of it. It is all just more
fun than I've ever had in my life. It is
(32:10):
absolutely no hardship whatsoever to fly around the country to
see people, to be on the radio, or any of that.
You enjoy my show, and I appreciate that more than
you'll ever know. I don't want to beat this into
the ground. I'm sure you've all felt like you aren't
going to ever amount to anything, even though you knew
you were capable of and I felt that way. The
(32:32):
only difference between you and me is that I'm up
here and you're out there, And the only reason I'm
up here is because you're out there. Right. It's true
you may enjoy my show, but I'll tell you people,
especially you people, you don't know it. So I'm gonna
tell you you rejuvenated my life because a successful radio
(32:54):
person is not a success simply because he does what
he does. People have to listen to it, appreciate it,
and support it. And everybody in this room has. I
mean for me six years ago to be mired in
loneliness and aimlessly walking through life and then to come
here and have tickets sell out in two hours, My friends,
that hits me in the heart like nothing you can
(33:16):
ever imagine will nothing you can ever imagine will Well. Today,
we are so pleased to have a man. His title
in the business is about a paragraph long, and I'm
gonna read one sentence of it, so the rest of it,
you know, would take about half an hour. Phil Boyce,
(33:38):
the senior vice president of Spoken Word for Salem Media Group.
Now this is I think impressive on a number of levels.
Salem is a competitor, but yet Phil is here with us,
and Phil welcome. James, Thank you so much. It's an
honor to be on with you. I think I met
you in when I joined w ABC as program director.
(34:04):
The station at the time when I got there was
the most listened to the news talk station in the nation.
And I'll never forget sticking my head around the corner
and seeing you sitting there at the control seat of
the E. I B Network with Kick Carson and I
think it was Brett winter Bull. It was like looking
into the Starship Enterprise and seeing uh Spock and Kirk
(34:28):
and Zulu and you guys were at the center of
the universe. I mean at that time, this was so
You've been doing the syndicated show with Rush for I
think seven or eight years. You guys were the top
of the world at that time, and you stayed there.
That was the amazing thing. You stayed there for a
(34:49):
long long time. Now, you already alluded to the to
Rush when you came into w A b C and
you saw him. What was it like the first time
you met Rush? Well, I want to go back for
the first time I heard Rush coming out of the
speaker because That's a Kennedy like moment for me. I
remember where I was and what I was doing when
I first heard Rush Limbaugh coming out of the speaker.
(35:11):
So I was the news director in Denver of Khal
kho W and I had worked the morning ship. So
I was driving home in the middle of the day
and I was in the car right next to the
Wiltshire Hills golf course when Rush comes out of the speaker.
Apparently somebody was on vacation at k o A that
day and Ed McLaughlin convinced them to try Rush for
(35:32):
a day. Well, I was immediately blown away. I mean,
this guy was saying things that I had been thinking
in a way that I had never heard anybody before.
And back at Khal, we had been thinking about going talk.
We were still playing music back in and we we
just didn't have the right talent. We needed horses to
(35:54):
do it. And I drove back to the station, went
into the g MS office right that moment, and I said,
turn on k Away, You've got to hear this guy.
He's the guy we need to get to build the
station around. So he did, and he liked Rush, and
he called his boss, the president of viacom Bill Figgenshu,
and he asked Bill Figgenshu, could we grab this guy
(36:16):
Rush Limbaugh. Apparently he's available. And Bill Figginshu said, you
know what, that guy's not gonna make it. He was
my roommate when we were both rock chocks at KQB
in Pittsburgh, and he was a slab. He left half
eaten pizza in boxes around the apartment. I don't think
he's gonna make it. No, you cannot do that. He's
(36:36):
not gonna make it. Well, of course we know the
rest is history. Uh. But and and Bill Figgershu was
a nice guy. He just missed it. A lot of
people missed it on Rush Rising like he did. But
you know, stations that picked up Rush back in the
day would get massive complaints from listeners who just hated Rush.
(36:58):
But what they didn't understand was that every time somebody
hated Rush, two or three or four people fell in
love with him, and by the time they started looking
at the numbers, he was just like on fire. So
by the time I got to W A. B C.
And I was so honored to be the PD of
a station with Rush. I mean I was in Detroit
for four years trying to get Rush off the other station,
(37:19):
and they were so loyal they wouldn't move him over
to w j R, even though I was a fifty
one flamethrower and he was on a pea shooter. They
were loyal to that station. And I always admired that
about how they built the Russia Limbaugh network. They were
very loyal to those that went with them at the beginning.
And so now you're at w ABC. You're the program
(37:41):
director at w ABC. This is the flagship station. By
the way, it was the flagship station, the most iconic
call that is perhaps in the radio industry. And here
you are program director and Russia Limbaugh is the lead
show on w ABC. Now take use. What was it
your first interactions with Rush? Well, the thing that amazed
(38:03):
me about Rush was how humble he was. And I'll
never forget walking down the hallway to his office to
stick my head in and ask him about something. And
I said, you know, I've only been there a few weeks,
and I said, Rush, I just have to tell you
what an honor it is for me to be the
p D of w ABC, where you are our lead
(38:24):
lead pony. And this has been a dream come true
for me. I've been an admirer of you for years
and now I get to work with you. And you know,
he was embarrassed, he was humble. Uh. He didn't react
the way I expected. Uh. And I saw him like
that in many occasions. Here's Rush Limbaugh, the king of
talk radio by that time, and he was always a
(38:47):
little bit embarrassed and shy to be given that kind
of high praise. And I admired that about him because
he didn't take it for granted. He knew the humble
beginning he had. You know, here's a guy that had
been a rock jock. I mentioned Pittsburgh. He had been
a rock jocks seven different places and fired seven different
(39:10):
a M rockers. And I think he was probably fired
because he wanted to talk. He didn't want to play rock.
He wanted to talk, and the p d s said,
drive him crazy, and they would eventually get tired of
his talking and fire him until finally one day somebody said,
you know, you need to be on a talk station.
They put him on in Sacramento. The p D There
(39:30):
is a friend of mine, Tyler Cox. He's the guy
that put him on in Sacramento. I think it was
KF B K and uh he just took off. He
took off like Gangbusters. So yeah, it was a joy
and an honor for me to to work with Rush
and working with him in New York. Do you recall
any story that stands out about the experience, that just
(39:52):
stands in your mind? Is this maybe the singular story?
And I'm sorry if I put you on the spot
with that one, philm No, no you didn't. I to
tell two stories, but the first one is what happened
to me at w ABC one year into my fourteen
year run there. So uh wait, wait, wait, wait what
second home on my second Folks? A fourteen year run
(40:17):
at any radio station for a program director is an
amazing feat. I just wanted to insert that. It is.
It's like a hundred years and dog years. And I'm
convinced one of the reasons I lasted fourteen years was
because I had Rush Limbaugh. Because with Rush Limbaugh, you
(40:39):
could tear the station down to nothing. As long as
you had Rush, you could rebuild it around Rush. And
you know why, I know that I did that so
and and it did take five years to build w
ABC back. I didn't know if I get five years.
You know, they treat us like NFL head football coaches.
They hire you one year, they expect Super Bowl the next.
(41:00):
It took me five years to rebuild the damage that
we had done and bring in the talent like Hannity
and Levin, and we got back to the most listen
to the news talk station in the nation in two
thousand one. And it was that year that I told
Sean Hannity, we want to syndicate you after Rush Limbaugh,
and I'm convinced that it's because of Russia limbaugh success.
(41:22):
We were able to syndicate Hannity, and before long, Hannity
became the fastest growing syndicated talk show host in history.
Because what happened to Hannity was amazing because we syndicated
him on and you know what happened on day two
of Hannity in syndication. Happened and Sean knocked off Dr
(41:45):
Laura a hundred places in six months. So he became
the fastest growing syndicated host in history. Okay, Phil, So
one question for you, as time quickly evaporates, what do
you think Russia's legacy he will be not just in
the radio industry, but in the largest sense for the country. Yeah,
(42:06):
I think he'll go down as a icon of our time.
I think he will go down much bigger than just
the guy who we did talk radio and we launched
talk radio, or the grandfather of talk radio. I think
he'll be an icon of our time in his wisdom,
(42:27):
in his knowledge, in the things that he said that
resonated with people. The thing that I always will never
forget is people who hear Rush for the first time
say he's saying what I'm thinking, and nobody else is
saying it for the first time. When he came on
the scene, we realized we weren't alone those of us
(42:47):
who thought this way. And today we need that kind
of wisdom more than ever. Uh. We'll never forget Rush,
will never forget the legacy, will never forget what he
taught us, and will benefit from it for many many
years to come. What was it like for you when
you saw Rush being given the Middle of Freedom Award
by President Trump? Well, I admit I teared up a
(43:08):
little bit because I realized, first we're getting close to
the end for Rush. I don't think I realized that
till I saw him there. You know, he had just
come out. I think of rehab or or some kind
of cancer treatment when he went up on on the
platform there at the Capitol, and uh, but to see
them give him a standing ovation. And I know the
(43:30):
Democrats didn't stand, but the Republicans did and showed him
so much praise. But what really amazed me, Well, I
talked about the humility of Russia Limbaugh. He was genuinely
touched by that, and that I will never forget. Here's
a guy who had it all, but you could still
bring him to tears by giving him a much deserved
(43:54):
honor and that meant a lot to a lot of people. Well,
speaking of an honor, Phil, this is in a real
honor for me. You have been one of the most
incredible success stories of our time in the radio business.
And more importantly to me, um than all of that,
(44:16):
you are a great and decent human being. You treat
people with respect, you treat people with kindness. You can
be a demanding boss when you have to be. I
know this from experience, but even in those circumstances, you
do it without being demeaning and without making someone feel bad.
(44:40):
And let me tell you, there are so many bad
actors in that people come across during their careers. It
is truly a pleasure and an honor to be to
know someone that's really one of the good guys, and
that's who you are. Well, now you're making me feel embarrassed,
sort of like I made Rush feel embar us. I
(45:01):
really appreciate you saying that. Uh, you know, you never
know in this business. You know, we joked about fourteen
years being a hundred years and dog years as a
p D in this format, you never know when they're
going to call you in and say that's it. Here's
a box, put your stuff in it. Uh, and security's
gonna escort you out. You really don't. And for me
(45:22):
to be still in this business, still doing what I
get to do, Uh, it's just an honor. And uh,
you know, look, I give credit to God. God wanted
me here, He gave me this career and I'm honored
to do it every day. And thank you so much
for what you said, because James, you're the same way.
I mean, you're You're one of the kindest, most decent
(45:44):
people I've had the privilege of working with in this business.
So let's let the good guys succeed. Amen to that.
Thank you so much. Phil We really appreciate you that
having you here. Thank you, James. What is American exceptional
is just not that we're better people. It's not that
we're smarter. It's not that we have an advantage because
of our geography, because we clearly don't. But what what
(46:06):
is it that sets us apart? And there's one answer,
and it's found in the Declaration of Independence. We're all
endowed by our Creator, so we acknowledge God as a
country when we were founded, we acknowledge God that we
were all created. We are rolling down by our Creator
(46:28):
with certain inalienable rights, undeniable. They're just there and they
come from the Creator among them, but not just life, liberty,
pursuit of happiness. That's pretty simple to me. Those three things,
the acknowledgement of our creation by God, loving God, that
(46:51):
our creation, that our that our spirit has this natural
yearning to be free and to be happy, and that
there's nothing wrong with either of thom. There's nothing wrong
with being created, nothing wrong with being happy or trying
to be and there's certainly nothing wrong with living. It
was that codification that made one crucial thing possible, and
(47:14):
that is for ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary things. Not
the smartest, not the brightest, not the wellborn, not the richest. Ordinary.
This is a nation. It became the greatest nation in
human history. However, many hundreds of thousands, billions, whatever years
(47:37):
you want to say, we've been plotting the earth, ordinary
people accomplishing extraordinary things. Thanks to Michael Harrison and Phil Boyce,
coming up on our next and final episode of this series,
loaded with special treats. First of all, the broad cast
(48:00):
engineer for almost the entire length of the Russiland Black Program.
Our good friend Mike Mamone joins us for a few moments. Plus,
We're going to share the thoughts and words of many
of those in Russia's world, whose voices you already know
because they sat in the seat they were the guest
host on the show. If that weren't enough, we have
(48:21):
a very special v I P guest who will share
his thoughts on Russia, lan Ball, none other than the
forty President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, will
join us for a few minutes as well. All that
in our jam packed final episode, Russia. Limbaugh, The Man
behind the Golden E I B Microphone, is produced by
Chris Kelly and Phil Tower, the best producers in America,
(48:46):
Production assistant Mike Mamone and the executive producers Craig Kitchen
and Julie Talbot. Our program distributed worldwide by Premier Networks.
Found on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you
listen to your favorite podcast. This is James Golden. This
is both Snerdley, This is James Golden. I'm honored to
(49:06):
be your host for this in every single episode of Russia. Lumbaugh,
the man behind the Golden E I B microphone, thank
you for being with us,
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