Alison Loehnis and I have much in common — we’re two American women living abroad, we both adore the small seaside towns of Liguria, and we share a favourite bookstore: Heywood Hill in Mayfair.
Alison grew up in Manhattan with a mother who was a passionate cook. She discovered the joy of food and fashion early on—licking brownie spoons next to her mother and elegantly accessorising her school uniform. She channelled her ambition into a dynamic career spanning Saatchi & Saatchi, Disney, LVMH, and now YOOX NET-A-PORTER.
Today, Alison and I are here at Table 4 to talk fashion, leadership, balancing work and family—and, of course, food in our lives and the memories we share.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The last time I saw Allison Leerness, I had just
arrived in New York. It was November, right before the election.
Walking down Madison Avenue, I heard Ruthie, you're here. It
was Alison. She immediately whisked me into her best friend's
jewelry store, Sydney Garber, told me in detail about the
Peter Doig show at Cogozi and Gallery, and took me
(00:24):
for a coffee at our favorite sant Ambrose. Just like that,
I was swept immediately back into the best of New
York City. Alison and I have much in common. Were
two American women living abroad. We both adore the small
seaside towns of Liguria, and we share a favorite bookstore,
Haywood Hill and Mayfair. Alison grew up in Manhattan with
(00:46):
a mother who was a passionate cook, and she discovered
the joy of food and fashion early on, licking brownie
spoons next to her mom and elegantly accessorizing her school uniform.
She channeled this ambition into a dynamic career spanning Sachi
and Sauchi, Disney, LVMH and now Netta Porte. Today, Allison
(01:06):
and I are here at table four to talk about
food and fashion, leadership and womanhood, balancing work and family,
and of course we're going to plan our next trip
to New York City.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
What could be better?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So here we are. It's so good to see. I
had to Swiss has been on the cards for a while.
Hasn't it your schedule? My schedule?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I know, I'm up and down, But here we are.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I'm not going to let you go.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm not going to leave.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
No, I'm going Where have you been most recently? So?
I just got back.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
From New York and prior to that, I was in Providence,
Rhode Island. Oh yes, visiting my alma mater with the
next generation, with my son who's going to be starting
in the fall semester.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So with they had an open day. So we just
did that.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You feel very connected to Brown, very I mean saying
that I haven't there do?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I think?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I felt just a really you know, the first time
I step foot back on campus after the last time
I was there, I started crying, you know, joyful tears.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
How much time was it?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
It had been probably ten years or so, not since
I graduated, sadly, but since I had last since I
had last been. And actually this is this is actually
very relevant to our discussion today because Brown for me
has many men and memories, but also quite a few
food memories.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I was going to ask you, yeah, tell me what
they are well.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Because Providence is such an interesting place. There were lots
of Portuguese, lots of Italian Americans, and then of course
there's Johnson and Wales, which is you know, incredibly famous,
has turned out lots of chefs. So the restaurant's seen,
at least in my you know, during my time, was
always very vibrant, very sort of ahead of its time.
And there was one restaurant which you will know in particular,
(02:48):
which everyone begged to be taken to by your parents
or your friend's parents called Alfno.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I know, I remember when they opened.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It was a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I think it might have been around the time that
we opened the River Cafe. I think I might have
been there, like maybe early in ninety yes, exactly exactly.
It would oven right and made wood oven.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And they were known for pizzas and it was the
kind of thing that you dreamed about. And I hadn't
been for years, and so I thought, you know what,
let me take my son. And I went, both with
excitement and a bit of trepidation because sometimes your memory
doesn't anyway, it was as good as ever.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Did you eat out a lot when you were colored?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
God, no, I mean no, only when you could get someone,
you know, someone's to take generous parents to take it.
And then we would go to some you know, really
gross place which was cheap and you could bring your
own wine basically, so no.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Did you kind of cook when you were there? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I mean we thought we would do dinners at our
house once we moved off campus, I think after our
after my sophomore year I had off campus, and so
we cooked, and then we would take turns as housemates.
And I mean I remember thinking I was terribly sophisticated
because I made couscous, which was probably really sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Totally flavorless and gross.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
And then I remember having a guy over for a
date and being, you know, having no time whatsoever, and
buying will be outraged, buying Newman's own tomato sauce, yes,
and pretend pretending I made it.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh yeah, fine, and that's fine. A lot of people
can remember doing all these podcasts. The meal they cooked
for somebody they wanted to sort of impress in a date,
and there's that great do you ever see the fcraft smile?
One of the great scenes in the movies Michael Caine
cooking a meal as as an active seduction.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
This definitely was not that evidenced by the jar.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So we have a little drill here, which is to
read a recipe, and you chose the Bandukada. You also
brought in a recipe for a meat loaf, so we
can read the recipe for the Bandcada. But I definitely
want to discuss the meat loaf because it's interesting people.
Edward Shape brought in a recipe for his chili and
with a chefs with Eric Repair, he read a recipe
(05:01):
from his book, and so did well Wolfgang.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
We had a recipe of his.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So I like the idea that you brought in your
meat loaf recipes, so we'll go through that.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Tell do you want to tell me about that first?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, I mean it was just basically thinking about early
memories of food and I just remember my mom making
this meat loaf, which is.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
By the way, super.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Dated, and you know, the greens, everything I think it
came out of like a sixties cookbook, and you know,
there's catch up, there's all kinds of things in it,
but it's just one of those because I remember I
remember asking her years ago and saying, can you just
unearth that recipe for me?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It was just the one thing I remember here.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It is barbecue style with hunts tomato sauce, nineteen sixties. Yeah,
there you go, beef bread crumbsy, I'm reading it out.
I can read it out. An egg salt, pet seasoning,
hunts tomato sauce.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Do you know what that was?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Two cans and then water, water, vinegar, brown sugar. So
it's a little sweet mustard and worcesterd she put it.
All sounds delicious.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Do you make it now?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Years ago made it and it's not anything actually want
to make or necessarily eat, but it just brought memory.
I just have this memory of it sitting in a tin,
baking tin and just and having it. And sometimes it
was good, sometimes it was a little bit dry. And
Funnily enough, when I found it, I showed her to
this young woman who works with me, she goes, oh, yeah,
my mom used to make that ti.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
My mother made me love. So it's of an era.
I don't know if it's an English thing. I don't think.
I don't not very No.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I tried to explain it to my husband and you didn't.
I think you found the recip your revolting.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Tell me about growing up in the Limo's household in Manhattan.
First of all, it's really glad that you grew up
in Manhattan as child.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Tell me what what that was like.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So I grew up in Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
And it's so funny because anytime, you know, I would
meet people who weren't from me had to be like,
what was it like?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Did you live in one of those buildings? Yes? And
they said, well, what was that like? And I was like, well,
I don't. I mean, I don't know. I didn't know
anything else. I was in a building.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
So, Yes, grew up in Manhattan with my parents and
my younger sister. Both of my parents worked, although saying
that my mom had been a teacher, and when she
had me she stopped working, and then she had my
sister and she was looking after us. And I remember
it was one summer and she was out in the
island and we were at camp or doing something, and
(07:15):
she was just super bored, and she ran into a
guy she had gone to high school with, who said, hey,
you know, I've just started this advertising agency.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Do you want to come and do some work?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
And lo and behold she did, and that she's, you know,
launched this incredible career in advertising.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
She was a really great.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Cook, and I remember sort of her being very pretty
sophisticated in a few ways. One I think in the
recipes that she chose. My parents loved to travel, and
they would come back and share with us, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Their experiences, bring us little treats.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And also I'll never forget they went to Morocco and
they came back and they said that they'd eaten pigeon pie.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, I just kid, you know, I came back from
Rocca two days and then.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But I remember, as a kid living in New York
in the building, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I was like, I was like, that sounds absolutely party.
But so they used to travel, so I think their exposure.
My mom always loved friends, and she would experiment with
all these different things, and they used to have these
dinner parties.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I was gonna ask you about entertaining.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I remember, like some of my earliest memories of my
mom cooking.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
It's probably even before she went to seventies.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Seventies and my mom, I remember what have they'd have
these dinner parties and she'd make all these super what
I thought.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Were elegant starters or little sort of what do you
call it? Yes, it canopies.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And so there was one that she used to make
there was almost like a little spinach souflet, and she
did it in like a muffin tin, and then there
were always these dips and lots of crud de tay.
And then she used to make something which was like
a pita bread with paprika, and anyway, I just remember
it all being hearing clinking glasses and thinking it was all.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Used to sitting on the steps of sitting in the.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Exactly exactly coming and asking for like assaulted, not yes
exactly and begging for stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Did she have help? Would you have people to No?
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I remember once, you know, if she did a big party,
but by and large it was just her doing it.
And so at the weekends, yeah, she would do the
cooking again when she went back to work. And I
remember us we went to Long Island every weekend, and
I remember having lots of sort of seasonal and locally
sourced stuff. I remember bay scallops and corn when it
(09:30):
came into season, and when the tomatoes came into season,
and just there's being really sort of hallmarks of end
of school and summer and just having The other thing
is my parents got curious about quote unquote health food
really early on.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
We used to have whole wheat pancakes and they would exactly,
they would.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Never buy white bread.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
All I wanted in life with white bread, and like
I would have these brown bread. I remember listening to
one of your previous guests talking about brown bread.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
We always had the.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Precisely we would have like brown bread.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
And I'll never forget having a sleepover at my friend's
house and we were going to summer camp together in
the next day, and so her mom made me lunch
and I came home and I was like, Mom, I
just had the best lunch ever. It was like I said,
I had a baloney a bologney sandwich with white bread,
and then I had like twinkies like you know kids,
(10:24):
and my mom being totally horrified. I mean, we were
allowed treats, we were allowed a little you know, but
so It's not like we couldn't have sugar or anything
like that. But I just remember thinking all white bread
and bologney was really where it's at.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
What did your life?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
So my dad worked in the fragrance business when I
was really really little. He ran the salariant fragrance and
beauty business in the US. And I remember seeing these
photos of him being in Paris and like, I don't
know why they needed him on a shoot, but like
him on location and seeing this incredibly beautiful model and
they were shooting the ad campaign for this very you know,
(10:59):
famous a theme called.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Reeve Ghosh, which is.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I remember the bottle, the blue.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then here, you know, he remained
in the beauty business. And so I think it's funny.
I think, you know, somehow I didn't think of myself
as following my parents from a career standpoint, but obviously
their their interest in business resonated in some way. And
while my mom was the sort of key to food,
if you will, I also experienced food through my dad
(11:26):
in a slightly different way. One My dad has always
been He's the he would pretend to cook, I mean,
the dishes that he made for us, He made a
good milkshake, peach milkshakes, so he would get the local
peaches with ice cream and like run them through the thing,
which is delicious. And then his specialty, which I tease
him about to this day, which he tried to conn
my sister and I and thinking was a good thing,
was karaokey eggs.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
What's that exactly?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It's scrambled eggs with cherryo akisaws drivels on that, which
is repulsive. So you don't need anyway, But he always
loves about the good things. He loved to eat, and
so what he would do is he had this file
in his office of you know, tears from newspapers and
magazines of restaurants he wanted to go to, and that
informed a lot of the travel he and my mom
would do. They'd go to the middle of nowhere in
(12:12):
Italy because they had he had seen this place. But
then also he introduced me to Japanese food. My school
finished early on a Friday, and so every Friday I
would go after school and meet him in his office.
And he was really into art, as was I. So
he would go to a museum. So let's say we'd
go to the met or we'd go to Mama, and
then he'd take me out to lunch, either before or after,
(12:34):
and I'll never forget one day he was like, I'm
going to have you try sushi, and I was like,
what sushi? And gosh, probably like eleven or so, and there's.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
This whole world opened up.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
So I remember, say, for my dad has always been
around sort of curiosity, and he was a very willing
consumer of food.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
He's a big eater, but not a cook.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So restaurants in New York was part of your would
you go out well that routine, which is very touching.
My father used to take me when I was a child.
We lived in the country two hours north of Woodstock
of New York, and our thing was not every week,
but to go take me in the car to New York.
We'd go past the big ships, you know, this is
(13:17):
probably in the late fifties, early sixties, the big boats
and see the SS France and the Queen Elizabeth. Then
we would go to have lunch, to take me to
the Russian tea room.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That was a great.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Place, and then we would go see musical And so
we would always go see a musical of the day,
which we're you know, we Side Story or My Fair Lady,
and then we would go to sam Goodies you know
the record my car and buy the record and then
go back up and then just play the record, which
means that I can remember every show tune from you know,
every musical. And I think those those rituals with your dud.
(13:52):
Have you had done any of that with your children?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely we did.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
We would do the same thing sort of you know, amuseum,
I think they are less willing attendees, but museum and
then food. Yeah, it was that food or like a light,
nice long walk and food. Yeah, there's always there's sort
of always that at the end, but I just remember, Yeah,
it was just this incredible time. And actually all these
interests sort of were peaked off the back of that,
(14:19):
you know, an interest in art, history, interested in food,
this idea also that you don't have to spend ten
hours in a gallery to make it interesting. You can
And that's something I actually learned with my children. You know,
sometimes a little bit less as a little bit less
is more.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Tell me about grandmothers in your life. Yeah, did you
have grandparents living? Yeah, so I had.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I grew up with my My maternal grandfather had died
when I was really young, so I grew up with
basically two grandmothers and grandfather. My dad's parents house to
me was like food central. My grandmother. They lived in Westchester,
and my grandmother was a really good cook, and she
had sort of you know, traditional sort of old world staples,
(15:01):
a stuffed cabbage thing, but she made a phenomenal lisag.
It was all very delicious food, and she always I
remember she had these cookie jars in her house with
various like keebler and off the shelf things. I'll never
forget shed these cookies, Vienna fingers, which I thought were
like the best single in the world.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
But I just remember going to her house. She always
had an apron on.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
She had unbelievably retro menus, so as a starter, you
were either offered a glass of tomato juice.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Or half a grapefruit half a grape right.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
She used to keep My grandfather would come home from
work and he had a glass beer mug and she
would keep it in the freezer. So then I remember
he would have it like nice frosty beer. And I
think because she was really so house proud, she didn't
let the men in the house go near the kitchen,
which might explain why my dad is not exactly a chef,
but that really I remember she was just the coziest grandmother.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
When you were growing up in New York, was here
memory that you have of going to a shop or
a restaurant or a place that you associate with your
childhood in New York?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, I'd say the Chinese restaurant nearby always and having
very Americanized Chinese food, and Shirley Temples to drink completely
Zay Bars, which was just about so Za Bars, which
is this I think they call themselves a gourmet store,
which sounds so dated.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
On the Upper West Side where we.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Would just go actually we'd go there to get bread,
I think largely. And then there was a place across
the street called H and H Bagels, which was like
the most famous bagel place in New York. And I
just have really strong memories of going to both of
those and just having warm, this sort of feeling of
warm bagels in a waxy paper bag and eating them
(16:47):
before you could even get home.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as
chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in
the restaurant sharing how we cook their food, where the
ingredients come from, as well as hints and advice for
cooking the recipes in the books. And now we're bringing
that same ethos to our podcast, a question and answer
episode with me and our two executive chefs, Sean Winnow
(17:18):
and Joseph Travelli. All we need is to hear from
you about what you would like to know. Send a
voice note with your question to Questions at Rivercafe dot
co dot uk and you might just be our next
great guest on.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Ruthie's Table four.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You grew up with a mother who was a passionate
cook and entertained and saw food and sharing and friends,
and then your father who did this beautiful time with
you to eat out and then even at Brown. You
talk about the name of the restaurant you went to
to the outside world when you left Brown.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Did you have your own apartment, did you? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So I lived at home for a couple of years,
and then I had my own place where you were working.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
So I was working. So my first job was in advertising.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
An advertising yet your mom's place.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
I worked at Yes and no. I worked at Sauchi
and Sachi Oh did you. I did in New York,
so where was the building was three story?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I have Hudson. You know, it's funny. I I don't know.
I think it's like a Manhattan thing.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
So you basically you're at college, you can't really afford
to go out to eat much, and if you do,
it's like a really easy local place. You then get
your first job. And I mean I was not making
much money at all yet somehow nobody cooked. And I
think partly because you know, you lived in these tiny
apartments which barely had a kitchen, but you could cook in.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Those kitchens, but no, no one cooked. So it was
basically takeout.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I mean, this is SACI and Sachi.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah, it's like well, actually then I was still living
at home for at least the first part of it,
and then I moved into my tiny little apartment and
I did take out the whole time. I mean I
didn't have enough money to get my shirt drag clean,
so I don't know how I was doing.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
My son went to Columby and claimed that it was
cheaper to you know, you look at home. I never
got the economics of that, but.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
No, no, no, A friend of mine, a friend of mine,
I remember I used to keep sweaters in his oven.
I'll never get He's very chic. He worked for Ralph
Lauren and then he worked for our money, and he
had this great taste.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And I remember going to his apartment.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I was like, this is super and he's like he's
from the South and he's like, honey, I keep I'm.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Like, show me, that's such a nice what's going to name? Honey?
I keep my sweaters in the oven.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
On his first line and her podcast with me was moothies.
You know what my mom kept in her oven? And
I went, you know, I don't know what she said,
filing cabinet. How she mused to oven filing Cavin.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
That's hilarious. Okay, yes, so it's a very variation on
a theme.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
However, the spirit did move me to start cooking a
bit when I was on my own.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I love the movies. I've always always loved the movies,
and to.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Me, the Oscars were like watching the Academy Awards on TV,
like it couldn't be more exciting. I mean, I felt
like every year I was up for an award, That's
how excited I got.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
So we're in the nineties, we're in like mid early mid.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Nineties, and I would have friends over and I would
have these oscar parties and it was so.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Late, I guess it wouldn't be no, it was civilized.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
It started at like, you know seven, I think, because
on the West Coast it's really early. And I remember
and I would go and I'd make I remember doing
like some chicken breast. My mom had this like dijon
chicken breast marinate thing. I remember doing that in making
a you know what I used to use a lot
was the Barefoot Contested cookbook, The Barefoot Contestia, and I
(20:34):
remember making the kind of couscouse like a couscous salad,
or making or Zo's or various p LOFs and things.
So I remember cooking at that moment in time. And
then when I really started cooking more actually is when
I moved to London. And I'll never forget I moved here.
It was during the May Bank holiday weekend of two
thousand and one, so just before nine to eleven, and
(20:57):
I was really excited about coming. I was coming for
a short stant for a job. I was allowed to
come and work out of our London office for six months.
Moved over and moved into this corporate flat, and I
realized that the weekend I was going to arrive was
a bank holiday, and that maybe people wouldn't be around,
so I might be all on my own. And I
remember thinking, gosh, I'm going to be so lonely here.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What am I going to do? And I thought I
did two things.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
One I wrote a little notebook the name of everyone
I knew in London, just so I could remind myself
that I wasn't alone, even if they weren't in town.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
And then the second thing is I'm just going to cook.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
And I remember going to the grocery store and going
to Waitros, which was like a revelation because it was
so much nicer than any grocery store I'd ever seen
in New York. And of course when I moved here,
I don't think London was even you know, it was
not nearly where it is now in terms of its
reputation in terms of food, and I remember all these
Americans would be like, oh my god, you're not gonna
be able to eat anything. And by the way, they
don't refrigerate their eggs.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
That was amaz have that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I was like, I think it's going to be Okay,
I think.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
It's in the supermarket. Yeah, that's right, they don't it,
doesn't you remember.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh my gosh, thank you please, no, thank you please? Okay,
fathe don't thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I've said this just so many people over the years,
the number of dinners I've been to by delicious, yummy,
cozy dinners at home seasoned hosts, and I would sit
there and I'd reach for the thing to.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Put on my and then when your napkin. Okay, so
I'm not a weirdo. Okay, that makes me feel so
much better.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Than the napkin thing was, like, yeah, shocking. I think
it's changed now.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, well it seems too.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
That's what I can't say. Even if I have, like
a piece of bread, I always have to have.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Of course, Yes, I mean even if I'm meeting someone
for a drink and there's a napkin on the table.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Napkin.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I love napkins. Yeah, and for hours about napkins.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Has anyone ever ask you here for a black napkin?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh? No.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I discovered this in New York. It's such a New
York thing.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I was having dinner with a friend who's wearing black
and your napkins actually don't shed, but there's a number,
you know, some of those really lineny napkins you're wearing black.
And a friend of mine was called the waiter over
and said, may I please have a black napkin?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh wow?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And I was like, what's the black nap gin? And
she goes, they have black napkins. They don't get on
your stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
A friend of mine worked at Soho House in New York.
One of our chefs went to open Soho House in LA.
They had square plates. I think it was fashionable at
the time. Eddie said there were clients who just would
only eat on a round plate, you know, so they go, you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Can only have a black name plate, any Eddie.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I digress.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
And you know it's funny because I love trying different
foods and different dishes.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But however, I'm very happy.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Once I like something, I'm happy to stick with it
for a long period of time. And my friends have
always made fun of me. I mean I would literally
remember in New York, this was this one place we
used to go and I used to order the same thing,
and I probably ordered the same thing for two years
and then I'm done.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So you know what the equivalent of that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Is wearing the same clothes everything.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I mean there was a period when my husband was
very sick, and here there were all these things that
were going and I realized that that I could just
wear the same denim skirt every single day.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
As a matter of.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Fact, the denim skirt was stolen not long ago in
my suitcase which they put out on the street, and
the person forgot to put it in the boot. So
the suitcase is still and I came back until Charles,
our manager, I said, you know, and then the suitcase
was still, and then my denim skirt was in it.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
He said, well, every cloud has a silver life.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
It was only one of the skirts, or did you
have a few?
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, but the choice.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
What I realized is that you know, decision, decision, decision,
like you in a restaurant that somehow just knowing that
every day, O care, I just put on the denimsk
uniform though, and whatever it is, So maybe there is
you probably would never ever think about wearing the same
thing the way you chose the same Yeah, it was true,
so you could eat and I don't think i'd go
to a restaurant have the same So there's no fashion.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, there's really a fashion food thing.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
I mean I was thinking about it a lot in
the sort of run up to today and just in general.
And I mean, everyone has to eat, but there are
people that have very transactional relationships with food. You know,
they just look at the Ar'm just gonna eat, and
you know, it's fuel similar to sort of clothes in
that you know, everyone has to get dressed, and you
can either just treat it as Okay, I need to
cover my body to go out, but for me in
(25:08):
the same way, it's such a source of creativity and joy.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And you know, I've been asked a lot, you know,
why do you why do you love clothes? Why do
the fashion?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I always assumed it's because my mom was really into
fashion and I threw us most successa aw the joy
that it brought her. But I think also, you know,
I went to a school where we had a very
strict uniform.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Tell me about what was the school.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
It was called Shape in in New York, and I
don't know it's prime less strict now, but we had
you know, for lower school, you had to wear a
little either yellow seersucker or green tunic. And in the
winter months there was this like polyester version, and then
you were white blouse and you would to wear green
or yellow sox and brown hard shoes.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Later on you could wear it like boat shoes and things.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And then for the upper school you'd wear kilt and
you had to have a collar and specific colors. But
it was quite you know, it was strict. When we
would have a field day, a sports day, I would
lie in thinking like, oh my gosh, what am I
going to wear it? Not what am I going to
wear it to like wow, anyone, but just I get
to choose, I get to che I would drive my
mom insane. Do you think I could wear anyway? And
(26:11):
so I realized that to me, fashion is self expression.
It's freedom, and it's the same thing being able to choose,
you know, to have the privilege to choose what you eat,
where you eat it, putting things together, experimenting, and it's
choice and it's just having that, the freedom to choose.
And actually it's really funny. I was thinking, sorry, this
is a bit of attention, but about choice, and I
(26:33):
was we used to do. There was this candy store
out in Watermill called the Penny Candy Store that was
around for years. It was like the equivalent of like
a little news agent here that sold candy. And when
we would have this tradition with my dad where he
would take us to the penny candy store and we
each would have I remember at first was a dollar
and then it was two dollars and you could choose
(26:55):
what you wanted, and the people in the store were
super strict, so literally like if you went over by
a cent, you had to put something back. But I
remember there was this thing around I don't know what
made me think of this just now, but there's this
thing around choice. And I always knew exactly what I
wanted from that penny candy thing, and might go to
my sister and she would take like an hour, and
the question was do you want one big thing? Do
you want lots of little things? And how do you
(27:16):
sort of like your grandmother that can I have two lunch? Like,
how do I get the most out of this.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Little The thing is that it's also about I certainly
think about it and food, and I know you think
about it and clothes. The other issues, the issues of
food poverty, of the fact that there are people who
don't have a choice because there are no well, first
of all, we know that in the Bronx where you
and I know very well that there are no vegetable
(27:42):
shops and if you want to buy a carrot, there
aren't any. And then people who can't afford to give
their children a home cooked meal because they're working at
Amazon and they have to be there for the night shift.
Or maybe there's a mother who'd rather do homework with
her kid than cook for kids, so they order out
or they go to you know, fast food places, or
(28:04):
and we know that there are no choices, as we
know also with fashion, and you know what we can
wear and what we can afford to wear, and what
people can express their identity. And there's vintage clothes and
there's used clothes, and there's difficult times for that. But
I know it's a concern of yours very much. So
I mean, and I think that'd be interesting to discuss.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean, I've always felt, or we've always felt
such a huge responsibility to give back from a business
respective to give back to the communities that we serve
so really great you know. Example is for nott A Porte,
we have these vans where we do a same day
delivery in certain cities around the world, and the dream
was always Okay, we're delivering beautiful clothes to discerning, wonderful customers.
(28:46):
But then the vans come back empty, right, and could
there be a way that we could use those vans
for the greater good?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So we've done all kinds of things. So, for example,
we worked with a Good Plass Foundation in New York
where we were collecting from customers lightly used or unused
children's clothing, toys, you know, accessories the parents might need.
Call it a baby carrier or things like that. So
when you get your delivery from the van, and then
(29:13):
you might say, well, guess what, my kid has just
outgrown their toddler bed or what have you. And then
we would collect that in our vans and then bring
it back to bring it back to the charity, which
really was great. And during COVID, you know, we were
able to use, you know, the deepest, darkest moments of
lockdown to use some of our vehicles for food delivery,
things that nature.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think with clothes, and I.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Think the awareness is so much greater now, and I
see this wonderfully in my kids and their generation, this
notion of clothing not just having a second life, but
a third life. And so on the one hand, there's
an industry around that. Okay, you can rent things, you
can buy things secondhand. If you want something designer, you
can't afford it, okay, great, and it democratizes fashion. But
I think the other thing that's that's wonderful is you know,
(29:56):
there's so much it's not wonderful that there's so much access,
but the access can be put to good use. You know,
these wonderful organizations like Dress for Success which work with women,
right and.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It's just it's fabulous.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So tell us about well, we've worked.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
With them in the past where you know, they're bringing
women back into the workforce and so they're women who
have either come out of very hard domestic situations, women
who've come out of prison, and they come and they're
doing these interviews and they're trying to get back into
sciding and they don't have anything to wear. They don't
have a pair of shoes that are decent, they have
an old pair of sneakers, and so it's Dressed for Success.
(30:31):
It's you know, they have these outposts where essentially you
could go in, you're given interview training, but also how
do you show up what's the appropriate thing to wear,
and then there's a wardrobe that you can choose from
and it really sets you up. And so I think
there's so many ways that one can get involved. And
you know, in London there's so many friends who are
doing great car boot sales and things in this nature,
(30:52):
just as a way, you know, because if you're in
a private position where you have not only enough, but
you've got too much, what can you do with it
to help someone else or to sort of help, you know,
even in a small way, try and tackle these gargantuan problems.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
And tell me more about Netaporte. When did you start working?
Speaker 4 (31:09):
So I started almost well eighteen years ago and we
were it wasn't gosh, it wasn't a start at.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Start, did it. It's going to be twenty five seven
years into seven.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Years in a remarkable business, a remarkable founder, a remarkable team.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And I remember, I mean I had been there.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
But was a newsletter that was that had launched in
the nineties called Daily Candy.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Of this, and I remember, and it was all things
sort of what's going on in fashion and what's going
on with the restaurants, go in the culture. And I
remember seeing I was in New York and seeing this
email saying there's this website that's going to be selling fashion,
and I remember signing up immediately thinking, God, what could
be better? I always loved fashion. This idea could you
get stuff delivered? I remember the very first thing that
(31:55):
I bought, which I still have, which is this Chloe
satin dropwat dress.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I haven't worn it probably for a long time, but
it still sits there. It's this wonderful memento. And you know,
the mission was really to make.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
This fashion consumer's life easier and to also inspire her.
And so what we've seen firsthand and where I feel
so privileged is not just to work with super teams
and really amazing individuals, but really just to see the
joy that fashion can bring. Again, you're not solving the
world's problems, but it really can put a spring in
(32:30):
your step. Just like you see here every second of
the day, people sit down and whatever troubles they had
or whatever they've got going on, they take a bite
and you see the shoulders come down and this spark
in their eyes and it's.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
That celebratory, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, And so you started working there, and then what
was a trajectory for being.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
So I stayed? So I started.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So I started working there running sales and marketing, and
then I started running Netta Protein in its entirety. We
then launched a number of other businesses, is the Outnet,
which is a discount business, Mister Porter, which was a
men's business, and over the eighteen years was involved in
those launches with great teams. And then I started running
Netaportein and mister Porter. And then I ran Netaportein, Mister
(33:14):
Porter and the Outnet, and then we merged with an
Italian business called Yuks, and then I ran all four.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Stores how many people? And then well, you.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Well, when I joined, we were probably about one hundred,
one hundred and fifty people, and today we're twenty five
hundred and change. And there's been different ownership and everything
along the way. So I feel like I've worn lots
of different hats under the same.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
What does it feel like to be a woman who
is in this position? Is it something that you are
thinking about other women? Are you thinking about your own kids?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
You know?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Is it thinking about the future now, what we've achieved,
what we have to do?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I mean, especially in this.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
World right now that we're here, where there seems to
be so much back going on rather than yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah, you know it's I think I had a couple
of great role models.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
My mom, as I said, was you know, a work
She's not just a working woman. But I think she
really taught me indirectly that being a mom and being
a working woman and having a successful career are not
mutually exclusive. I also had at my school in New York,
this phenomenal headmistress named Mildred Berenson who would stand at
(34:25):
a podium.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
She was amazing.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
She would stand at a podium our little lectern when
we had our assemblies, and she was always immaculately dressed,
and she wore these little pumps.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I think they must have.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Been those Ferragama pumps with the bows. And she had
this habit of just sort of clicking her heels together,
and I remember she would be sort of immaculate, clicking
her Pharamagama pumps. And she'd say because it was a
girls school I went to, and she'd say, girls can
do anything. One day a woman will be president. And
as a kid, I mean I barely was paying attention
I'm sure just I thought it was washing over me.
(34:54):
But it was interesting because when I eventually went to
a co ed school, I never for a second thought
I would lesser of anything by being a girl.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So I think it did kind of sink in.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
And then as I, you know, started a career and
advanced in a career, the question that I gat from
younger women all the time is, you know, how do
you how do you not even like, how do you
do it? Because you're so great, but how do you
do all these things?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
How can you do all these things?
Speaker 4 (35:21):
And I remember reading something and one of the supplements
here and I can't remember it might have been Nigella
Lawson who said it, which was around just it was
something around prioritization, and I think that piece had said,
you know, you can have an active social life, you
can have out, you can have all these things. You
can't necessarily have them all on full volume at the
same time. But what I took away was this priority piece,
(35:43):
and the thing that I believe in so strongly is
just you need to know what.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Your priorities are.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
You don't have to justify them to anybody, but know
what they are, and then your answer will always sit
comfortably with you, you know. So for me, I always
knew it with my family. For someone else it might
be their career. That's that's their choice. But then you know, okay,
it's this thing and it's that thing, and so you
have to okay, sometimes you have no choice, right but
in the instances where you can make it. And I
think the other piece of advice I would always give
(36:09):
is just set your stall out early on. If you're
meaning you're starting a job. Let's say I'm coming to
work for you and I've just had a lucky me.
If I were and I'm kind of work for you
and i've just had a baby, yeah, and I have
there are only certain hours I can do instead of
or I need to make sure i'm out of you.
In a Restaurant's probably not the best example, but I'm running,
I'm running the shop, and these are Instead of being
(36:30):
embarrassed about it, instead of looking at my watch and
stressing out, I would say to you, hey, Ruthy, I'd
really love to come and you know, work with you,
but every day I need to make sure that my
bag is packed at six pm because I have a chut.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And then you can choose whether you hire me or not.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
But just lay it out, just lay out the ways
in which you work and sort of what works.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Anyway, and just being upfront about it.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I think that also is the responsibility of all of
us who hire people. When I did my first book,
cal Reebuck was head of Random House, and she would
not let a meeting be scheduled after five o'clock. There
are just no meetings that you could have where women.
I was thinking about her kids being picked up from school.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
You know, men could stumble home like seven and was late.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
At the office, and so there was a whole initiative.
But I think for us, for me, I think about
the people who have no choice, you know, the people
who are packing shelves, yeah, supermarkets, are taxi tab driver
or working. You know that the responsibility is on us
to provide workspaces that for the person who's washing the
(37:41):
dishes or coming in one day a week.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
How we do that?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
And I think women helping women, women I'm directing, is
so crucial.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
You know, women in leadership too.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I mean, luckily were far more evolved than we were
as a society years and years ago. But still, you know,
I look at my industry and way less than a third.
Leadership roles are held by women. You always in fashion,
there's lots of women working in fashion. When you look
at leadership, it's same thing. Architecture schools are full. I
think it's something like sixty percent women forty percent men.
(38:14):
And then partnerships. You know, the boards are really low.
So there's a lot of work to do. And by
the way, do we think that we will have a
woman president?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
It's been drilled into me from parents and rest in
Peace knew what she was talking about.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for
the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our
subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each
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each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River
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(38:57):
really care for them with the gift. At our website
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Speaker 3 (39:02):
Co dot uk to place your order.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
So you chose the recipeta, which is really a great thing,
So tell me why you chose it. All the recipes
and all the River Cafe so you chose the bandicada.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
First of all, it's very hard to choose. I think
in the case of Banicouda one, I'm a savory person.
I love Anthoon's and it's got a real umamminus to it.
I feel like the bandicotta sauce. Interestingly, we've never had
it in Italy. We've only ever had it either here
or at home.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Have you ever been to the north north of Italy, Yes,
because that's where it comes from, like the mountainous region
of Piedmonte.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And it's so you know, it's been a tradition in
our house for years where we always used to have it.
My husband's a phenomenal cook, and we always used to
have it on New Year's Day and it'll be one
of those things where you'd kind of wake up a
little bit tired. Yeah, yeah, and it was just it
sort of hit all the spots that you needed it too.
So we would always have binding count and that was
(40:06):
our thing. And so we do it with cooked vegetables
and you know, winter months, but we also do it
with fresh crud de tay.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
In the summer time. I'll say, you dip it and
use it as a dip as opposed to a dressing.
I mean I could drink it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I love it too.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I love the as you say, the saltiness, and then
as you say, the seasonality of it in the winter.
Will the recipe that you have we kind of. I
think it had carrots, it had charred, and it had
fennel and had something else, a nauto choke. It's really
nice with a nauto choke because visually to see a
whole auto choke.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Okay, so batya kouto with prosecco, serve six people. You
will need seven hundred and sixty mili of prosecco, three
garlic cloves peeled, three hundred grams of Swiss chart two
fennel bulbs cut into six wedges, three celery hearts quartered,
(40:57):
twelve salted anchovies cleaned and filled it, two hundred and
fifty grams of unsalted butter, and fifty.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Mil of olive oil. Yum.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
You put the prosecco into a saucepan, add the garlic
and boil it until the prosecco has reduced and the
garlic is soft. Remove from the heat, blanch the Swiss charred,
remove and then boil fennel and celery until soft.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Drain.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Return the saucepan with the reduced prosecco and soften garlic
to the heat and add the anchovy filets. Allow them
to melt into the mixture. Gently whisk in the soften butter.
Remove the pan from the heat. After the first edition
of butter. When all the butter has been incorporated, add
the olive oil and black pepper. Arrange the warm vegetables
(41:44):
on a serving plate, pour over the sauce, and serve immediately.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yum, yeah, you're you're just saying that Al's a really
good cook.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Owl's a very good cook.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Tell me about his cookbait.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
So he is the second of three boys, and growing
they spent a lot of time in Wales, and my
father in law was a way a lot for work,
and so my mother in law very wise, they thought,
oh wait, I'm spending this time in Wales. I'm at
the top of this hill. The weather's horrendous, and I've
got these three boys. I'm going to teach them to
cook or I'm going to become a short order Cook's
(42:17):
lo and behold you these three men who became great cooks.
And my husband trained actually as a chef, so he
always worked in restaurants and things during his gap year
and right after I think it was just finishing university.
You know, he was trained by the Rue Brothers, and
he has this just incredible I think curiosity, but also.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Imagination and creativity.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
I mean he can open a cupboard and see all
these desperate ingredients and see a dish and I I
always laugh because to me, I just see desperate ingredients.
So I think my fashion corollary is I can up
up a closet and I can see lots of different
ways of wearing things.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
But I do not have his skills in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
But I think it's been touching from a great conversation,
is that how many of your memories, whether it's going
to brown, whether it's meeting your father and Friday afternoons,
whether it was your mother's cooking or her work, or
coming to London and making a notebook of friends to call,
which I shared as well, or right now trying to
(43:23):
you know, deciding what to eat with your husband is
about food and memories and memories and food and how
if food is alleviating hunger, and food is sharing, food
is entertaining, food is creating a framework for your children
of adventure.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
It's also comfort.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, if you do need comfort, if you feel like
something that will just give you comfort.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Is there something that you would go to? Chicken service, chicken.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Chickens your pants down.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Just from a really young age, soup was always the
thing that I was given to make you feel better.
But unlike things, let's say, like ginger ale, which you
were given when you felt sick, and anytime I even
smell it now I feel sick because of sensation, chicken
soup was one of those things where immediately you would
feel better. And I remember my grandmother, my maternal grandmother,
(44:13):
who was not a sensational cook, made a great chicken soup,
lots of dill. She had matza balls in them that
my father described as hockey pucks. But I loved them,
and it.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Was always my thing.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
And there was this place in New York that closed
down years ago, but when I was having take out
all the time called the International Poultry Company, and I
remember ordering like quarts of mats of ball soup. And
so that's always been my thing, and I go to
and I remember I wasn't married to my husband yet
I think we weren't even engaged.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I had come back from China and I got
I was.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Incredibly sick, like six six sick, and I wasn't able
to eat anything for about ten days.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
And my mother in law, who's phenomenal, came over with this.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Pot of chicken soup, and I just remember it was
the first thing that I could eat, and it was
like it was like putting water on a wilting flower.
And so always to me, it's chicken soup. And I've
you know, idealing my husband's chicken soup. There's a place
in New York called Butterfield Market, these two sort of
food stores on that bree side, and they do a
(45:18):
great chicken soup. So when I'm in New York, I mean,
it could be a thousand degrees outside and I'm eating
chicken soup.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Okay, well we'll have that.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Thank you so much, Thank you for having me. Thank you, Yes,
stay forever. What are we going to do when we
go to New York together? We're gonna go where We're
gonna go.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Back to that brookstore, Sanding Garbor. We're gonna go to eat.
We'll have a two inch sandwich and from the met Okay,
come on Let's do It.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Thank you, thank you, Thank
Speaker 4 (45:50):
You for listening to Ruthie's Table for in partnership with
Montclair
You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The last time I saw Allison Leerness, I had just
arrived in New York. It was November, right before the election.
Walking down Madison Avenue, I heard Ruthie, you're here. It
was Alison. She immediately whisked me into her best friend's
jewelry store, Sydney Garber, told me in detail about the
Peter Doig show at Cogozi and Gallery, and took me
(00:24):
for a coffee at our favorite sant Ambrose. Just like that,
I was swept immediately back into the best of New
York City. Alison and I have much in common. Were
two American women living abroad. We both adore the small
seaside towns of Liguria, and we share a favorite bookstore,
Haywood Hill and Mayfair. Alison grew up in Manhattan with
(00:46):
a mother who was a passionate cook, and she discovered
the joy of food and fashion early on, licking brownie
spoons next to her mom and elegantly accessorizing her school uniform.
She channeled this ambition into a dynamic career spanning Sachi
and Sauchi, Disney, LVMH and now Netta Porte. Today, Allison
(01:06):
and I are here at table four to talk about
food and fashion, leadership and womanhood, balancing work and family,
and of course we're going to plan our next trip
to New York City.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
What could be better?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So here we are. It's so good to see. I
had to Swiss has been on the cards for a while.
Hasn't it your schedule? My schedule?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I know, I'm up and down, But here we are.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I'm not going to let you go.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm not going to leave.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
No, I'm going Where have you been most recently? So?
I just got back.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
From New York and prior to that, I was in Providence,
Rhode Island. Oh yes, visiting my alma mater with the
next generation, with my son who's going to be starting
in the fall semester.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So with they had an open day. So we just
did that.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
You feel very connected to Brown, very I mean saying
that I haven't there do?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I think?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:57):
I felt just a really you know, the first time
I step foot back on campus after the last time
I was there, I started crying, you know, joyful tears.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
How much time was it?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
It had been probably ten years or so, not since
I graduated, sadly, but since I had last since I
had last been. And actually this is this is actually
very relevant to our discussion today because Brown for me
has many men and memories, but also quite a few
food memories.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I was going to ask you, yeah, tell me what
they are well.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Because Providence is such an interesting place. There were lots
of Portuguese, lots of Italian Americans, and then of course
there's Johnson and Wales, which is you know, incredibly famous,
has turned out lots of chefs. So the restaurant's seen,
at least in my you know, during my time, was
always very vibrant, very sort of ahead of its time.
And there was one restaurant which you will know in particular,
(02:48):
which everyone begged to be taken to by your parents
or your friend's parents called Alfno.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
I know, I remember when they opened.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It was a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I think it might have been around the time that
we opened the River Cafe. I think I might have
been there, like maybe early in ninety yes, exactly exactly.
It would oven right and made wood oven.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
And they were known for pizzas and it was the
kind of thing that you dreamed about. And I hadn't
been for years, and so I thought, you know what,
let me take my son. And I went, both with
excitement and a bit of trepidation because sometimes your memory
doesn't anyway, it was as good as ever.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Did you eat out a lot when you were colored?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
God, no, I mean no, only when you could get someone,
you know, someone's to take generous parents to take it.
And then we would go to some you know, really
gross place which was cheap and you could bring your
own wine basically, so no.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Did you kind of cook when you were there? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
I mean we thought we would do dinners at our
house once we moved off campus, I think after our
after my sophomore year I had off campus, and so
we cooked, and then we would take turns as housemates.
And I mean I remember thinking I was terribly sophisticated
because I made couscous, which was probably really sophisticated.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Totally flavorless and gross.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
And then I remember having a guy over for a
date and being, you know, having no time whatsoever, and
buying will be outraged, buying Newman's own tomato sauce, yes,
and pretend pretending I made it.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh yeah, fine, and that's fine. A lot of people
can remember doing all these podcasts. The meal they cooked
for somebody they wanted to sort of impress in a date,
and there's that great do you ever see the fcraft smile?
One of the great scenes in the movies Michael Caine
cooking a meal as as an active seduction.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
This definitely was not that evidenced by the jar.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So we have a little drill here, which is to
read a recipe, and you chose the Bandukada. You also
brought in a recipe for a meat loaf, so we
can read the recipe for the Bandcada. But I definitely
want to discuss the meat loaf because it's interesting people.
Edward Shape brought in a recipe for his chili and
with a chefs with Eric Repair, he read a recipe
(05:01):
from his book, and so did well Wolfgang.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
We had a recipe of his.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So I like the idea that you brought in your
meat loaf recipes, so we'll go through that.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Tell do you want to tell me about that first?
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, I mean it was just basically thinking about early
memories of food and I just remember my mom making
this meat loaf, which is.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
By the way, super.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Dated, and you know, the greens, everything I think it
came out of like a sixties cookbook, and you know,
there's catch up, there's all kinds of things in it,
but it's just one of those because I remember I
remember asking her years ago and saying, can you just
unearth that recipe for me?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It was just the one thing I remember here.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It is barbecue style with hunts tomato sauce, nineteen sixties. Yeah,
there you go, beef bread crumbsy, I'm reading it out.
I can read it out. An egg salt, pet seasoning,
hunts tomato sauce.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Do you know what that was?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Two cans and then water, water, vinegar, brown sugar. So
it's a little sweet mustard and worcesterd she put it.
All sounds delicious.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Do you make it now?
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Years ago made it and it's not anything actually want
to make or necessarily eat, but it just brought memory.
I just have this memory of it sitting in a tin,
baking tin and just and having it. And sometimes it
was good, sometimes it was a little bit dry. And
Funnily enough, when I found it, I showed her to
this young woman who works with me, she goes, oh, yeah,
my mom used to make that ti.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
My mother made me love. So it's of an era.
I don't know if it's an English thing. I don't think.
I don't not very No.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I tried to explain it to my husband and you didn't.
I think you found the recip your revolting.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Tell me about growing up in the Limo's household in Manhattan.
First of all, it's really glad that you grew up
in Manhattan as child.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Tell me what what that was like.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So I grew up in Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
And it's so funny because anytime, you know, I would
meet people who weren't from me had to be like,
what was it like?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Did you live in one of those buildings? Yes? And
they said, well, what was that like? And I was like, well,
I don't. I mean, I don't know. I didn't know
anything else. I was in a building.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
So, Yes, grew up in Manhattan with my parents and
my younger sister. Both of my parents worked, although saying
that my mom had been a teacher, and when she
had me she stopped working, and then she had my
sister and she was looking after us. And I remember
it was one summer and she was out in the
island and we were at camp or doing something, and
(07:15):
she was just super bored, and she ran into a
guy she had gone to high school with, who said, hey,
you know, I've just started this advertising agency.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Do you want to come and do some work?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
And lo and behold she did, and that she's, you know,
launched this incredible career in advertising.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
She was a really great.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Cook, and I remember sort of her being very pretty
sophisticated in a few ways. One I think in the
recipes that she chose. My parents loved to travel, and
they would come back and share with us, you know.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Their experiences, bring us little treats.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
And also I'll never forget they went to Morocco and
they came back and they said that they'd eaten pigeon pie.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, I just kid, you know, I came back from
Rocca two days and then.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But I remember, as a kid living in New York
in the building, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
I was like, I was like, that sounds absolutely party.
But so they used to travel, so I think their exposure.
My mom always loved friends, and she would experiment with
all these different things, and they used to have these
dinner parties.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I was gonna ask you about entertaining.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
I remember, like some of my earliest memories of my
mom cooking.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
It's probably even before she went to seventies.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Seventies and my mom, I remember what have they'd have
these dinner parties and she'd make all these super what
I thought.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Were elegant starters or little sort of what do you
call it? Yes, it canopies.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And so there was one that she used to make
there was almost like a little spinach souflet, and she
did it in like a muffin tin, and then there
were always these dips and lots of crud de tay.
And then she used to make something which was like
a pita bread with paprika, and anyway, I just remember
it all being hearing clinking glasses and thinking it was all.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Used to sitting on the steps of sitting in the.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Exactly exactly coming and asking for like assaulted, not yes
exactly and begging for stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Did she have help? Would you have people to No?
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I remember once, you know, if she did a big party,
but by and large it was just her doing it.
And so at the weekends, yeah, she would do the
cooking again when she went back to work. And I
remember us we went to Long Island every weekend, and
I remember having lots of sort of seasonal and locally
sourced stuff. I remember bay scallops and corn when it
(09:30):
came into season, and when the tomatoes came into season,
and just there's being really sort of hallmarks of end
of school and summer and just having The other thing
is my parents got curious about quote unquote health food
really early on.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
We used to have whole wheat pancakes and they would exactly,
they would.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Never buy white bread.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
All I wanted in life with white bread, and like
I would have these brown bread. I remember listening to
one of your previous guests talking about brown bread.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
We always had the.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Precisely we would have like brown bread.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
And I'll never forget having a sleepover at my friend's
house and we were going to summer camp together in
the next day, and so her mom made me lunch
and I came home and I was like, Mom, I
just had the best lunch ever. It was like I said,
I had a baloney a bologney sandwich with white bread,
and then I had like twinkies like you know kids,
(10:24):
and my mom being totally horrified. I mean, we were
allowed treats, we were allowed a little you know, but
so It's not like we couldn't have sugar or anything
like that. But I just remember thinking all white bread
and bologney was really where it's at.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
What did your life?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
So my dad worked in the fragrance business when I
was really really little. He ran the salariant fragrance and
beauty business in the US. And I remember seeing these
photos of him being in Paris and like, I don't
know why they needed him on a shoot, but like
him on location and seeing this incredibly beautiful model and
they were shooting the ad campaign for this very you know,
(10:59):
famous a theme called.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Reeve Ghosh, which is.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I remember the bottle, the blue.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then here, you know, he remained
in the beauty business. And so I think it's funny.
I think, you know, somehow I didn't think of myself
as following my parents from a career standpoint, but obviously
their their interest in business resonated in some way. And
while my mom was the sort of key to food,
if you will, I also experienced food through my dad
(11:26):
in a slightly different way. One My dad has always
been He's the he would pretend to cook, I mean,
the dishes that he made for us, He made a
good milkshake, peach milkshakes, so he would get the local
peaches with ice cream and like run them through the thing,
which is delicious. And then his specialty, which I tease
him about to this day, which he tried to conn
my sister and I and thinking was a good thing,
was karaokey eggs.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
What's that exactly?
Speaker 4 (11:50):
It's scrambled eggs with cherryo akisaws drivels on that, which
is repulsive. So you don't need anyway, But he always
loves about the good things. He loved to eat, and
so what he would do is he had this file
in his office of you know, tears from newspapers and
magazines of restaurants he wanted to go to, and that
informed a lot of the travel he and my mom
would do. They'd go to the middle of nowhere in
(12:12):
Italy because they had he had seen this place. But
then also he introduced me to Japanese food. My school
finished early on a Friday, and so every Friday I
would go after school and meet him in his office.
And he was really into art, as was I. So
he would go to a museum. So let's say we'd
go to the met or we'd go to Mama, and
then he'd take me out to lunch, either before or after,
(12:34):
and I'll never forget one day he was like, I'm
going to have you try sushi, and I was like,
what sushi? And gosh, probably like eleven or so, and there's.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
This whole world opened up.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
So I remember, say, for my dad has always been
around sort of curiosity, and he was a very willing
consumer of food.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
He's a big eater, but not a cook.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So restaurants in New York was part of your would
you go out well that routine, which is very touching.
My father used to take me when I was a child.
We lived in the country two hours north of Woodstock
of New York, and our thing was not every week,
but to go take me in the car to New York.
We'd go past the big ships, you know, this is
(13:17):
probably in the late fifties, early sixties, the big boats
and see the SS France and the Queen Elizabeth. Then
we would go to have lunch, to take me to
the Russian tea room.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
That was a great.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Place, and then we would go see musical And so
we would always go see a musical of the day,
which we're you know, we Side Story or My Fair Lady,
and then we would go to sam Goodies you know
the record my car and buy the record and then
go back up and then just play the record, which
means that I can remember every show tune from you know,
every musical. And I think those those rituals with your dud.
(13:52):
Have you had done any of that with your children?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely we did.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
We would do the same thing sort of you know, amuseum,
I think they are less willing attendees, but museum and
then food. Yeah, it was that food or like a light,
nice long walk and food. Yeah, there's always there's sort
of always that at the end, but I just remember, Yeah,
it was just this incredible time. And actually all these
interests sort of were peaked off the back of that,
(14:19):
you know, an interest in art, history, interested in food,
this idea also that you don't have to spend ten
hours in a gallery to make it interesting. You can
And that's something I actually learned with my children. You know,
sometimes a little bit less as a little bit less
is more.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Tell me about grandmothers in your life. Yeah, did you
have grandparents living? Yeah, so I had.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I grew up with my My maternal grandfather had died
when I was really young, so I grew up with
basically two grandmothers and grandfather. My dad's parents house to
me was like food central. My grandmother. They lived in Westchester,
and my grandmother was a really good cook, and she
had sort of you know, traditional sort of old world staples,
(15:01):
a stuffed cabbage thing, but she made a phenomenal lisag.
It was all very delicious food, and she always I
remember she had these cookie jars in her house with
various like keebler and off the shelf things. I'll never
forget shed these cookies, Vienna fingers, which I thought were
like the best single in the world.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
But I just remember going to her house. She always
had an apron on.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
She had unbelievably retro menus, so as a starter, you
were either offered a glass of tomato juice.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Or half a grapefruit half a grape right.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
She used to keep My grandfather would come home from
work and he had a glass beer mug and she
would keep it in the freezer. So then I remember
he would have it like nice frosty beer. And I
think because she was really so house proud, she didn't
let the men in the house go near the kitchen,
which might explain why my dad is not exactly a chef,
but that really I remember she was just the coziest grandmother.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
When you were growing up in New York, was here
memory that you have of going to a shop or
a restaurant or a place that you associate with your
childhood in New York?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, I'd say the Chinese restaurant nearby always and having
very Americanized Chinese food, and Shirley Temples to drink completely
Zay Bars, which was just about so Za Bars, which
is this I think they call themselves a gourmet store,
which sounds so dated.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
On the Upper West Side where we.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Would just go actually we'd go there to get bread,
I think largely. And then there was a place across
the street called H and H Bagels, which was like
the most famous bagel place in New York. And I
just have really strong memories of going to both of
those and just having warm, this sort of feeling of
warm bagels in a waxy paper bag and eating them
(16:47):
before you could even get home.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as
chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in
the restaurant sharing how we cook their food, where the
ingredients come from, as well as hints and advice for
cooking the recipes in the books. And now we're bringing
that same ethos to our podcast, a question and answer
episode with me and our two executive chefs, Sean Winnow
(17:18):
and Joseph Travelli. All we need is to hear from
you about what you would like to know. Send a
voice note with your question to Questions at Rivercafe dot
co dot uk and you might just be our next
great guest on.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Ruthie's Table four.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You grew up with a mother who was a passionate
cook and entertained and saw food and sharing and friends,
and then your father who did this beautiful time with
you to eat out and then even at Brown. You
talk about the name of the restaurant you went to
to the outside world when you left Brown.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Did you have your own apartment, did you? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (18:04):
So I lived at home for a couple of years,
and then I had my own place where you were working.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
So I was working. So my first job was in advertising.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
An advertising yet your mom's place.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
No, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
I worked at Yes and no. I worked at Sauchi
and Sachi Oh did you. I did in New York,
so where was the building was three story?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I have Hudson. You know, it's funny. I I don't know.
I think it's like a Manhattan thing.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
So you basically you're at college, you can't really afford
to go out to eat much, and if you do,
it's like a really easy local place. You then get
your first job. And I mean I was not making
much money at all yet somehow nobody cooked. And I
think partly because you know, you lived in these tiny
apartments which barely had a kitchen, but you could cook in.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Those kitchens, but no, no one cooked. So it was
basically takeout.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
I mean, this is SACI and Sachi.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Yeah, it's like well, actually then I was still living
at home for at least the first part of it,
and then I moved into my tiny little apartment and
I did take out the whole time. I mean I
didn't have enough money to get my shirt drag clean,
so I don't know how I was doing.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
My son went to Columby and claimed that it was
cheaper to you know, you look at home. I never
got the economics of that, but.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
No, no, no, A friend of mine, a friend of mine,
I remember I used to keep sweaters in his oven.
I'll never get He's very chic. He worked for Ralph
Lauren and then he worked for our money, and he
had this great taste.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And I remember going to his apartment.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I was like, this is super and he's like he's
from the South and he's like, honey, I keep I'm.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Like, show me, that's such a nice what's going to name? Honey?
I keep my sweaters in the oven.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
On his first line and her podcast with me was moothies.
You know what my mom kept in her oven? And
I went, you know, I don't know what she said,
filing cabinet. How she mused to oven filing Cavin.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
That's hilarious. Okay, yes, so it's a very variation on
a theme.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
However, the spirit did move me to start cooking a
bit when I was on my own.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I love the movies. I've always always loved the movies,
and to.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Me, the Oscars were like watching the Academy Awards on TV,
like it couldn't be more exciting. I mean, I felt
like every year I was up for an award, That's
how excited I got.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
So we're in the nineties, we're in like mid early mid.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Nineties, and I would have friends over and I would
have these oscar parties and it was so.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Late, I guess it wouldn't be no, it was civilized.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
It started at like, you know seven, I think, because
on the West Coast it's really early. And I remember
and I would go and I'd make I remember doing
like some chicken breast. My mom had this like dijon
chicken breast marinate thing. I remember doing that in making
a you know what I used to use a lot
was the Barefoot Contested cookbook, The Barefoot Contestia, and I
(20:34):
remember making the kind of couscouse like a couscous salad,
or making or Zo's or various p LOFs and things.
So I remember cooking at that moment in time. And
then when I really started cooking more actually is when
I moved to London. And I'll never forget I moved here.
It was during the May Bank holiday weekend of two
thousand and one, so just before nine to eleven, and
(20:57):
I was really excited about coming. I was coming for
a short stant for a job. I was allowed to
come and work out of our London office for six months.
Moved over and moved into this corporate flat, and I
realized that the weekend I was going to arrive was
a bank holiday, and that maybe people wouldn't be around,
so I might be all on my own. And I
remember thinking, gosh, I'm going to be so lonely here.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What am I going to do? And I thought I
did two things.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
One I wrote a little notebook the name of everyone
I knew in London, just so I could remind myself
that I wasn't alone, even if they weren't in town.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
And then the second thing is I'm just going to cook.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
And I remember going to the grocery store and going
to Waitros, which was like a revelation because it was
so much nicer than any grocery store I'd ever seen
in New York. And of course when I moved here,
I don't think London was even you know, it was
not nearly where it is now in terms of its
reputation in terms of food, and I remember all these
Americans would be like, oh my god, you're not gonna
be able to eat anything. And by the way, they
don't refrigerate their eggs.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
That was amaz have that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I was like, I think it's going to be Okay,
I think.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
It's in the supermarket. Yeah, that's right, they don't it,
doesn't you remember.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh my gosh, thank you please, no, thank you please? Okay,
fathe don't thank you.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
I've said this just so many people over the years,
the number of dinners I've been to by delicious, yummy,
cozy dinners at home seasoned hosts, and I would sit
there and I'd reach for the thing to.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Put on my and then when your napkin. Okay, so
I'm not a weirdo. Okay, that makes me feel so
much better.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Than the napkin thing was, like, yeah, shocking. I think
it's changed now.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, well it seems too.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
That's what I can't say. Even if I have, like
a piece of bread, I always have to have.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Of course, Yes, I mean even if I'm meeting someone
for a drink and there's a napkin on the table.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Napkin.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I love napkins. Yeah, and for hours about napkins.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Has anyone ever ask you here for a black napkin?
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Oh? No.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I discovered this in New York. It's such a New
York thing.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
I was having dinner with a friend who's wearing black
and your napkins actually don't shed, but there's a number,
you know, some of those really lineny napkins you're wearing black.
And a friend of mine was called the waiter over
and said, may I please have a black napkin?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Oh wow?
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And I was like, what's the black nap gin? And
she goes, they have black napkins. They don't get on
your stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
A friend of mine worked at Soho House in New York.
One of our chefs went to open Soho House in LA.
They had square plates. I think it was fashionable at
the time. Eddie said there were clients who just would
only eat on a round plate, you know, so they go, you.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Can only have a black name plate, any Eddie.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I digress.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
And you know it's funny because I love trying different
foods and different dishes.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
But however, I'm very happy.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Once I like something, I'm happy to stick with it
for a long period of time. And my friends have
always made fun of me. I mean I would literally
remember in New York, this was this one place we
used to go and I used to order the same thing,
and I probably ordered the same thing for two years
and then I'm done.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So you know what the equivalent of that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Is wearing the same clothes everything.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
I mean there was a period when my husband was
very sick, and here there were all these things that
were going and I realized that that I could just
wear the same denim skirt every single day.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
As a matter of.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Fact, the denim skirt was stolen not long ago in
my suitcase which they put out on the street, and
the person forgot to put it in the boot. So
the suitcase is still and I came back until Charles,
our manager, I said, you know, and then the suitcase
was still, and then my denim skirt was in it.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
He said, well, every cloud has a silver life.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
It was only one of the skirts, or did you
have a few?
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Yeah, but the choice.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
What I realized is that you know, decision, decision, decision,
like you in a restaurant that somehow just knowing that
every day, O care, I just put on the denimsk
uniform though, and whatever it is, So maybe there is
you probably would never ever think about wearing the same
thing the way you chose the same Yeah, it was true,
so you could eat and I don't think i'd go
to a restaurant have the same So there's no fashion.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, there's really a fashion food thing.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
I mean I was thinking about it a lot in
the sort of run up to today and just in general.
And I mean, everyone has to eat, but there are
people that have very transactional relationships with food. You know,
they just look at the Ar'm just gonna eat, and
you know, it's fuel similar to sort of clothes in
that you know, everyone has to get dressed, and you
can either just treat it as Okay, I need to
cover my body to go out, but for me in
(25:08):
the same way, it's such a source of creativity and joy.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And you know, I've been asked a lot, you know,
why do you why do you love clothes? Why do
the fashion?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I always assumed it's because my mom was really into
fashion and I threw us most successa aw the joy
that it brought her. But I think also, you know,
I went to a school where we had a very
strict uniform.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Tell me about what was the school.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
It was called Shape in in New York, and I
don't know it's prime less strict now, but we had
you know, for lower school, you had to wear a
little either yellow seersucker or green tunic. And in the
winter months there was this like polyester version, and then
you were white blouse and you would to wear green
or yellow sox and brown hard shoes.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Later on you could wear it like boat shoes and things.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And then for the upper school you'd wear kilt and
you had to have a collar and specific colors. But
it was quite you know, it was strict. When we
would have a field day, a sports day, I would
lie in thinking like, oh my gosh, what am I
going to wear it? Not what am I going to
wear it to like wow, anyone, but just I get
to choose, I get to che I would drive my
mom insane. Do you think I could wear anyway? And
(26:11):
so I realized that to me, fashion is self expression.
It's freedom, and it's the same thing being able to choose,
you know, to have the privilege to choose what you eat,
where you eat it, putting things together, experimenting, and it's
choice and it's just having that, the freedom to choose.
And actually it's really funny. I was thinking, sorry, this
is a bit of attention, but about choice, and I
(26:33):
was we used to do. There was this candy store
out in Watermill called the Penny Candy Store that was
around for years. It was like the equivalent of like
a little news agent here that sold candy. And when
we would have this tradition with my dad where he
would take us to the penny candy store and we
each would have I remember at first was a dollar
and then it was two dollars and you could choose
(26:55):
what you wanted, and the people in the store were
super strict, so literally like if you went over by
a cent, you had to put something back. But I
remember there was this thing around I don't know what
made me think of this just now, but there's this
thing around choice. And I always knew exactly what I
wanted from that penny candy thing, and might go to
my sister and she would take like an hour, and
the question was do you want one big thing? Do
you want lots of little things? And how do you
(27:16):
sort of like your grandmother that can I have two lunch? Like,
how do I get the most out of this.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Little The thing is that it's also about I certainly
think about it and food, and I know you think
about it and clothes. The other issues, the issues of
food poverty, of the fact that there are people who
don't have a choice because there are no well, first
of all, we know that in the Bronx where you
and I know very well that there are no vegetable
(27:42):
shops and if you want to buy a carrot, there
aren't any. And then people who can't afford to give
their children a home cooked meal because they're working at
Amazon and they have to be there for the night shift.
Or maybe there's a mother who'd rather do homework with
her kid than cook for kids, so they order out
or they go to you know, fast food places, or
(28:04):
and we know that there are no choices, as we
know also with fashion, and you know what we can
wear and what we can afford to wear, and what
people can express their identity. And there's vintage clothes and
there's used clothes, and there's difficult times for that. But
I know it's a concern of yours very much. So
I mean, and I think that'd be interesting to discuss.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean, I've always felt, or we've always felt
such a huge responsibility to give back from a business
respective to give back to the communities that we serve
so really great you know. Example is for nott A Porte,
we have these vans where we do a same day
delivery in certain cities around the world, and the dream
was always Okay, we're delivering beautiful clothes to discerning, wonderful customers.
(28:46):
But then the vans come back empty, right, and could
there be a way that we could use those vans
for the greater good?
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Right?
Speaker 4 (28:52):
So we've done all kinds of things. So, for example,
we worked with a Good Plass Foundation in New York
where we were collecting from customers lightly used or unused
children's clothing, toys, you know, accessories the parents might need.
Call it a baby carrier or things like that. So
when you get your delivery from the van, and then
(29:13):
you might say, well, guess what, my kid has just
outgrown their toddler bed or what have you. And then
we would collect that in our vans and then bring
it back to bring it back to the charity, which
really was great. And during COVID, you know, we were
able to use, you know, the deepest, darkest moments of
lockdown to use some of our vehicles for food delivery,
things that nature.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think with clothes, and I.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Think the awareness is so much greater now, and I
see this wonderfully in my kids and their generation, this
notion of clothing not just having a second life, but
a third life. And so on the one hand, there's
an industry around that. Okay, you can rent things, you
can buy things secondhand. If you want something designer, you
can't afford it, okay, great, and it democratizes fashion. But
I think the other thing that's that's wonderful is you know,
(29:56):
there's so much it's not wonderful that there's so much access,
but the access can be put to good use. You know,
these wonderful organizations like Dress for Success which work with women,
right and.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It's just it's fabulous.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So tell us about well, we've worked.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
With them in the past where you know, they're bringing
women back into the workforce and so they're women who
have either come out of very hard domestic situations, women
who've come out of prison, and they come and they're
doing these interviews and they're trying to get back into
sciding and they don't have anything to wear. They don't
have a pair of shoes that are decent, they have
an old pair of sneakers, and so it's Dressed for Success.
(30:31):
It's you know, they have these outposts where essentially you
could go in, you're given interview training, but also how
do you show up what's the appropriate thing to wear,
and then there's a wardrobe that you can choose from
and it really sets you up. And so I think
there's so many ways that one can get involved. And
you know, in London there's so many friends who are
doing great car boot sales and things in this nature,
(30:52):
just as a way, you know, because if you're in
a private position where you have not only enough, but
you've got too much, what can you do with it
to help someone else or to sort of help, you know,
even in a small way, try and tackle these gargantuan problems.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
And tell me more about Netaporte. When did you start working?
Speaker 4 (31:09):
So I started almost well eighteen years ago and we
were it wasn't gosh, it wasn't a start at.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Start, did it. It's going to be twenty five seven
years into seven.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
Years in a remarkable business, a remarkable founder, a remarkable team.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
And I remember, I mean I had been there.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
But was a newsletter that was that had launched in
the nineties called Daily Candy.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Of this, and I remember, and it was all things
sort of what's going on in fashion and what's going
on with the restaurants, go in the culture. And I
remember seeing I was in New York and seeing this
email saying there's this website that's going to be selling fashion,
and I remember signing up immediately thinking, God, what could
be better? I always loved fashion. This idea could you
get stuff delivered? I remember the very first thing that
(31:55):
I bought, which I still have, which is this Chloe
satin dropwat dress.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
I haven't worn it probably for a long time, but
it still sits there. It's this wonderful memento. And you know,
the mission was really to make.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
This fashion consumer's life easier and to also inspire her.
And so what we've seen firsthand and where I feel
so privileged is not just to work with super teams
and really amazing individuals, but really just to see the
joy that fashion can bring. Again, you're not solving the
world's problems, but it really can put a spring in
(32:30):
your step. Just like you see here every second of
the day, people sit down and whatever troubles they had
or whatever they've got going on, they take a bite
and you see the shoulders come down and this spark
in their eyes and it's.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
That celebratory, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, And so you started working there, and then what
was a trajectory for being.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
So I stayed? So I started.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
So I started working there running sales and marketing, and
then I started running Netta Protein in its entirety. We
then launched a number of other businesses, is the Outnet,
which is a discount business, Mister Porter, which was a
men's business, and over the eighteen years was involved in
those launches with great teams. And then I started running
Netaportein and mister Porter. And then I ran Netaportein, Mister
(33:14):
Porter and the Outnet, and then we merged with an
Italian business called Yuks, and then I ran all four.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Stores how many people? And then well, you.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Well, when I joined, we were probably about one hundred,
one hundred and fifty people, and today we're twenty five
hundred and change. And there's been different ownership and everything
along the way. So I feel like I've worn lots
of different hats under the same.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
What does it feel like to be a woman who
is in this position? Is it something that you are
thinking about other women? Are you thinking about your own kids?
Speaker 3 (33:47):
You know?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Is it thinking about the future now, what we've achieved,
what we have to do?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I mean, especially in this.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
World right now that we're here, where there seems to
be so much back going on rather than yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah, you know it's I think I had a couple
of great role models.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
My mom, as I said, was you know, a work
She's not just a working woman. But I think she
really taught me indirectly that being a mom and being
a working woman and having a successful career are not
mutually exclusive. I also had at my school in New York,
this phenomenal headmistress named Mildred Berenson who would stand at
(34:25):
a podium.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
She was amazing.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
She would stand at a podium our little lectern when
we had our assemblies, and she was always immaculately dressed,
and she wore these little pumps.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
I think they must have.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Been those Ferragama pumps with the bows. And she had
this habit of just sort of clicking her heels together,
and I remember she would be sort of immaculate, clicking
her Pharamagama pumps. And she'd say because it was a
girls school I went to, and she'd say, girls can
do anything. One day a woman will be president. And
as a kid, I mean I barely was paying attention
I'm sure just I thought it was washing over me.
(34:54):
But it was interesting because when I eventually went to
a co ed school, I never for a second thought
I would lesser of anything by being a girl.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So I think it did kind of sink in.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
And then as I, you know, started a career and
advanced in a career, the question that I gat from
younger women all the time is, you know, how do
you how do you not even like, how do you
do it? Because you're so great, but how do you
do all these things?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
How can you do all these things?
Speaker 4 (35:21):
And I remember reading something and one of the supplements
here and I can't remember it might have been Nigella
Lawson who said it, which was around just it was
something around prioritization, and I think that piece had said,
you know, you can have an active social life, you
can have out, you can have all these things. You
can't necessarily have them all on full volume at the
same time. But what I took away was this priority piece,
(35:43):
and the thing that I believe in so strongly is
just you need to know what.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Your priorities are.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
You don't have to justify them to anybody, but know
what they are, and then your answer will always sit
comfortably with you, you know. So for me, I always
knew it with my family. For someone else it might
be their career. That's that's their choice. But then you know, okay,
it's this thing and it's that thing, and so you
have to okay, sometimes you have no choice, right but
in the instances where you can make it. And I
think the other piece of advice I would always give
(36:09):
is just set your stall out early on. If you're
meaning you're starting a job. Let's say I'm coming to
work for you and I've just had a lucky me.
If I were and I'm kind of work for you
and i've just had a baby, yeah, and I have
there are only certain hours I can do instead of
or I need to make sure i'm out of you.
In a Restaurant's probably not the best example, but I'm running,
I'm running the shop, and these are Instead of being
(36:30):
embarrassed about it, instead of looking at my watch and
stressing out, I would say to you, hey, Ruthy, I'd
really love to come and you know, work with you,
but every day I need to make sure that my
bag is packed at six pm because I have a chut.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
And then you can choose whether you hire me or not.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
But just lay it out, just lay out the ways
in which you work and sort of what works.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Anyway, and just being upfront about it.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
I think that also is the responsibility of all of
us who hire people. When I did my first book,
cal Reebuck was head of Random House, and she would
not let a meeting be scheduled after five o'clock. There
are just no meetings that you could have where women.
I was thinking about her kids being picked up from school.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
You know, men could stumble home like seven and was late.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
At the office, and so there was a whole initiative.
But I think for us, for me, I think about
the people who have no choice, you know, the people
who are packing shelves, yeah, supermarkets, are taxi tab driver
or working. You know that the responsibility is on us
to provide workspaces that for the person who's washing the
(37:41):
dishes or coming in one day a week.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
How we do that?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
And I think women helping women, women I'm directing, is
so crucial.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
You know, women in leadership too.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
I mean, luckily were far more evolved than we were
as a society years and years ago. But still, you know,
I look at my industry and way less than a third.
Leadership roles are held by women. You always in fashion,
there's lots of women working in fashion. When you look
at leadership, it's same thing. Architecture schools are full. I
think it's something like sixty percent women forty percent men.
(38:14):
And then partnerships. You know, the boards are really low.
So there's a lot of work to do. And by
the way, do we think that we will have a
woman president?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yes, we will.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
It's been drilled into me from parents and rest in
Peace knew what she was talking about.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for
the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our
subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each
oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with
each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River
Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you
(38:57):
really care for them with the gift. At our website
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Speaker 3 (39:02):
Co dot uk to place your order.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Now.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
So you chose the recipeta, which is really a great thing,
So tell me why you chose it. All the recipes
and all the River Cafe so you chose the bandicada.
Speaker 4 (39:20):
First of all, it's very hard to choose. I think
in the case of Banicouda one, I'm a savory person.
I love Anthoon's and it's got a real umamminus to it.
I feel like the bandicotta sauce. Interestingly, we've never had
it in Italy. We've only ever had it either here
or at home.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Have you ever been to the north north of Italy, Yes,
because that's where it comes from, like the mountainous region
of Piedmonte.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
And it's so you know, it's been a tradition in
our house for years where we always used to have it.
My husband's a phenomenal cook, and we always used to
have it on New Year's Day and it'll be one
of those things where you'd kind of wake up a
little bit tired. Yeah, yeah, and it was just it
sort of hit all the spots that you needed it too.
So we would always have binding count and that was
(40:06):
our thing. And so we do it with cooked vegetables
and you know, winter months, but we also do it
with fresh crud de tay.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
In the summer time. I'll say, you dip it and
use it as a dip as opposed to a dressing.
I mean I could drink it. I love it.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I love it too.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I love the as you say, the saltiness, and then
as you say, the seasonality of it in the winter.
Will the recipe that you have we kind of. I
think it had carrots, it had charred, and it had
fennel and had something else, a nauto choke. It's really
nice with a nauto choke because visually to see a
whole auto choke.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Okay, so batya kouto with prosecco, serve six people. You
will need seven hundred and sixty mili of prosecco, three
garlic cloves peeled, three hundred grams of Swiss chart two
fennel bulbs cut into six wedges, three celery hearts quartered,
(40:57):
twelve salted anchovies cleaned and filled it, two hundred and
fifty grams of unsalted butter, and fifty.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Mil of olive oil. Yum.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
You put the prosecco into a saucepan, add the garlic
and boil it until the prosecco has reduced and the
garlic is soft. Remove from the heat, blanch the Swiss charred,
remove and then boil fennel and celery until soft.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Drain.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Return the saucepan with the reduced prosecco and soften garlic
to the heat and add the anchovy filets. Allow them
to melt into the mixture. Gently whisk in the soften butter.
Remove the pan from the heat. After the first edition
of butter. When all the butter has been incorporated, add
the olive oil and black pepper. Arrange the warm vegetables
(41:44):
on a serving plate, pour over the sauce, and serve immediately.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yum, yeah, you're you're just saying that Al's a really
good cook.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Owl's a very good cook.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Tell me about his cookbait.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
So he is the second of three boys, and growing
they spent a lot of time in Wales, and my
father in law was a way a lot for work,
and so my mother in law very wise, they thought,
oh wait, I'm spending this time in Wales. I'm at
the top of this hill. The weather's horrendous, and I've
got these three boys. I'm going to teach them to
cook or I'm going to become a short order Cook's
(42:17):
lo and behold you these three men who became great cooks.
And my husband trained actually as a chef, so he
always worked in restaurants and things during his gap year
and right after I think it was just finishing university.
You know, he was trained by the Rue Brothers, and
he has this just incredible I think curiosity, but also.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Imagination and creativity.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
I mean he can open a cupboard and see all
these desperate ingredients and see a dish and I I
always laugh because to me, I just see desperate ingredients.
So I think my fashion corollary is I can up
up a closet and I can see lots of different
ways of wearing things.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
But I do not have his skills in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
But I think it's been touching from a great conversation,
is that how many of your memories, whether it's going
to brown, whether it's meeting your father and Friday afternoons,
whether it was your mother's cooking or her work, or
coming to London and making a notebook of friends to call,
which I shared as well, or right now trying to
(43:23):
you know, deciding what to eat with your husband is
about food and memories and memories and food and how
if food is alleviating hunger, and food is sharing, food
is entertaining, food is creating a framework for your children
of adventure.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
It's also comfort.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, if you do need comfort, if you feel like
something that will just give you comfort.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Is there something that you would go to? Chicken service, chicken.
Speaker 1 (43:49):
Chickens your pants down.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Just from a really young age, soup was always the
thing that I was given to make you feel better.
But unlike things, let's say, like ginger ale, which you
were given when you felt sick, and anytime I even
smell it now I feel sick because of sensation, chicken
soup was one of those things where immediately you would
feel better. And I remember my grandmother, my maternal grandmother,
(44:13):
who was not a sensational cook, made a great chicken soup,
lots of dill. She had matza balls in them that
my father described as hockey pucks. But I loved them,
and it.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Was always my thing.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
And there was this place in New York that closed
down years ago, but when I was having take out
all the time called the International Poultry Company, and I
remember ordering like quarts of mats of ball soup. And
so that's always been my thing, and I go to
and I remember I wasn't married to my husband yet
I think we weren't even engaged.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
And I had come back from China and I got
I was.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Incredibly sick, like six six sick, and I wasn't able
to eat anything for about ten days.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
And my mother in law, who's phenomenal, came over with this.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Pot of chicken soup, and I just remember it was
the first thing that I could eat, and it was
like it was like putting water on a wilting flower.
And so always to me, it's chicken soup. And I've
you know, idealing my husband's chicken soup. There's a place
in New York called Butterfield Market, these two sort of
food stores on that bree side, and they do a
(45:18):
great chicken soup. So when I'm in New York, I mean,
it could be a thousand degrees outside and I'm eating
chicken soup.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Okay, well we'll have that.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Thank you so much, Thank you for having me. Thank you, Yes,
stay forever. What are we going to do when we
go to New York together? We're gonna go where We're
gonna go.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
Back to that brookstore, Sanding Garbor. We're gonna go to eat.
We'll have a two inch sandwich and from the met Okay,
come on Let's do It.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Thank you, thank you, Thank
Speaker 4 (45:50):
You for listening to Ruthie's Table for in partnership with
Montclair
Host
Ruth Rogers
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