December 20, 2025 • 21 mins
In this bonus episode of Ruthie’s Table 4, we’re talking Christmas at The River Cafe, with our executive chefs Sian Wyn Owen and Joseph Trivelli.
What’s on the menu this December? How do we make it, and why do we love it? All this, and stories of Dada’s Christmas Cake.
Merry Christmas!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ruthie's Table four is now on YouTube. To watch this
episode and others, just visit Ruthy's Table four dot com
forward Slash YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in collaboration with me
and m Intelligence Style for Busy Women. Today's December eighteenth,
and you can feel the festive quality the River Cafe,
the Christmas trees on the lawn, and the room looks great.
(00:29):
We have lights, we have people coming in to spend
more time at lunch, and there is a feeling of
the celebration. So we're going to talk about what we're
actually cooking in the River Cafe right now. And so
here we are with Sean Owen and Joseph Tavelli, the
executive chefs, and we're all going to talk. So tell
me about what we're cooking today, Sean. We both have
(00:50):
your chef's sites on Joseph in preparation for tonight. Sean,
running away from the.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
The middle of lunch.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Don't worry idea what they're celebrating in there, because we're
in here. So what did you I was on the menu?
What are you thinking about when you're thinking about your menu?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah, this week I think is pulling out all the
stops for decadent dining. I think people feel that they
can eat in a way this last week coming up
to Christmas, than the way that they're not going to
be eating in January. So I'd like to just put
on some things I just think sound quite flamboyant decadent.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I mean, today at lunchtime, what is it Thursday?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I've put on the penne with the vodka and tomato
and Chilian cream. But I was trying to explain to
the chefs how to cook that. So it's not just
a tomato sauce with a vague hint of vodka, but
it has to be a tomato sauce with vodka cooked
into it. And then what we've also done is put
(01:51):
it through the movie. So it's very smooth.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Why did you take it through the recipe?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Just say it tastes step by stay.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, so with vodka cream and.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, so been using the penne. That is a smooth penney,
so it hasn't got the ridges on it, which I
think is really nice for that kind of dish.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I don't know if you disagree with it.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
And then fry some garlic, a couple of clothes of garlic,
drain the liquid off the tomatoes and chopped tomatoes, put
them in, and then I put like a good glug
like probably I mean for a whole restaurant of people,
I would use a whole bottle of vodka, but if.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You're making it for two, maybe not a whole bottle.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
It good.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
It's a good, good, generous shot of Vogora two depending
on how in our case, probably half a bottle of vodka.
Then cook it down with a flick of chili and
let that cook down so it's really well cooked down
for about twenty minutes, and then we put it through
the movie so it's really smooth. And another thing we
never do it, Yeah, I think so nice, there's no gesture.
(02:57):
And then put a splash of cream in to just
give it a bit of kind of extra lux feel.
And then when we're serving it, we're warming up the penne,
well we're heat cooking the penneating the penne, adding that
to the tomato sauce, and then putting what I would
think would be an extra shot of voka in it,
and a good big massive pinch of black pepper and
a bit of olive oil. So it's really like don't drink,
(03:20):
don't drive offter and many don't.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Give it to a king. I was going to say,
may the taste.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Everybody probably wanted to taste the tomato sauce like never before.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah, well I put it on for staff lunch and
I said, without the extra shot of AKA. But it's
really warming and it's got a bit of a kick.
It feels a bit like a bit of fun, which
is just nice on lunchtime.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think beautiful.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
It's funny how somethings just suit certain moments, isn't it.
It's obviously a Christmas thing, you know, Like in fact,
someone said to me, what keep asking me what's your
Christmas drink? And maybe I was thinking a bit morning after,
but anything, it was bloody Mary. You know, it's not
something I have very often, but for some reason it
sort of suits now.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, and of course you could have it on a
Monday in March.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
But somehow that last week of the year where you
pulling out o the stops, I've put on the tagler
Reini with cavia, which is something that is just the
real last week of the year, something that's a bit like.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
People, Yeah, how do you make that taller?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Reini, just some butter, like a few drops of lemon juice,
a little bit of black pepper, and then put that
on the plate in a nice tower and put a
spoonful of caviar on top.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Yeah, it's really nice here in these things. Because you know,
I'm not there by definition when you're telling people how
to do this, because I'm at home waiting for my shift.
But you've just described exactly what I said last night.
Almost won't work. Well.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
The other night I came in, I was on the
other side. I was in the kitchen. I was a
table and there was belita on me still, which I
think was also partly inspired by the time of year,
but also inspired by the fad that we had some
much delicious mustarda that had been made.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
It's also true, oh my gosh, we've never had such
good mustada from Jeneva, and a mustarda is supposed to
be from Cremona. But this Jeneva mustada is what did
you think was just the actual fruits that the way
they come from a special sweet factory.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Let's tell people what it is.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
So it's a fruits with mustard essence, mustard essence which
you can't buy here. You know, it's the same essence
I think you'd used for mustard gas. So you can't
go to a pharmacy, and it's not I think even
in Italy it's not easy to get hold of. So
it's generally because quite often, you know, people would have
a jar of fruits and just add a few drops
from a pipet. But these days you just buy already done.
(05:43):
So you've got this lovely sweet fruit which is often candied,
although not always, but in our case very much is
this year so kind of candied fruits with just these
few little drops of mustard essence, and it has that
lovely you know, sweet hot kind of an equal kind
of an equal balance, really nice, and it's great with
loads of things, you know. It's you know, certain mustadas
are delicious with cheese, for example. But the thing we
(06:07):
do with it more often than not here is have
it with boiled meats.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
This bullito misto with these kind of three sauces is
really fundamental. And in fact, when I'm asking a chef
like I did the other night, to make this billito,
probably for the first time, she'd ever like put it
on the plate, you know, the plate of the meats
with a few lentils and maybe a carrot or whatever
else is good, but it's nothing. I have to just
(06:31):
take them to the past and say, now look with
the sauces, because it's so much, you know, part of
the mustada. Then we have horse radish, which is obviously
equally spicy and still sweet as we put cream.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
In, so.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Horse radish with great horse radish and then chop it
more finely still, and then we always mix it with
crem fresh because we have this most amazing crem fresh
from the nils Yard dairy they make for us. So
we mix the two together and then just a few
drops of vinegar and salt and pepper and that's it,
you know, and we probably make that more days than not.
You know. It's really loads of things. Yeah, you know,
(07:12):
so that's oneful. So it has that. It's kind of
like creamy, rich hot sauce. These mustard fruits, you know,
which can be figs or pears or the jars we have.
At the moment you open there is one, yeah, one
at the moment there's actually a strawberry in there. I've
been avoiding the strawberries, but anyway, there's a yeah, but
(07:36):
the factory that makes these. This roman ango is amazing.
They candy strawberries, you know, like that is just like
it's another thing.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yesterday I was putting mustada on the blast, but there
was little tiny orange like.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
It wasn't a apricot maybe or even nothing. There's all
sorts of it's.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
A kind of tiny orange like maybe like a mandarin
or something.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
And then there's a third sauce, which is we make
two versions of a similar source. One we call dragon
Cello because it's with tarragon. It's probably the only thing
we ever do with tarragon here or Bangyette, and they're
exactly the same. But the Bangyette sauce is probably more
traditional pier montee sauce, similar to like a sort of
(08:17):
Southern French sauce, I suppose, but with boiled eggs chopped
and tons of parsley and the yellow.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Do you just use the yellow?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, but there's some When I was in bowl and
Aisy and in real they were only using yellow. But
Richard's mother used to make it all on a board,
never used a bowl, and so you would you know,
you'd have the egg, you'd have all the ingredients and
then you combine it, chop it all on the board
and then scoop it up.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Nice to make it with.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Yeah, just shoppened it yesterday, just ready for you.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Just how it used to make that. We used the
medical or time.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I mean in the early early days we were all
on the matalon and then it became kind of uncor.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Knives. Let's bring back maybe we could do.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
That for.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
It's a great.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Workout.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
At once, well there was a double bladed one which
was that very nice, and then the big really big
one like that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
It's really like upper body.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, okay, to the left way. So so what about
the let's talk more about the meats.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
So then the meats. Yeah, you can have all sorts
of things. I mean, and there's loads. I mean, you know,
I think I like blito actually all year round is delicious.
And there's plenty of restaurants, you know, all over the
sort of central and northern ity that just specifies, you know,
like we have carveries, you know, just you know, boil
and roast things. But what's lovely about this time of
(09:57):
year is people are more likely to order it. I
mean that's the truth. You know, people fancy it, you know,
it's freezing, it's raining. Something warming with this burjawed fruits.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
On that we had the other night that we.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Had tongue, which is very commonly we have tongue ox tongue.
We had beef. We had some beef brisket that we cooked,
and I came in early and put them on at eleven,
so they were boiled slowly the day until the evening.
And then coin. I think coachino is pretty much essential
for us for a blito mistake.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I just love.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I really like what we do.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Just a coin and lentils as a as a plate.
Nothing else we do.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
We never get zamponi anymore. I'd love to. I haven't
tried it for years. Actually, I'd like to try it again.
Maybe it's too much.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
It's like eating like.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I did belita yesterday language and I didn't put tongue
in it. I don't know why, because I wonder whether
that's one of those sort of ingredients that's slightly less approachable.
I don't know if it puts people off.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
So I put.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I mean it's not it's perfectly delicious, but we didn't
have any left anyway, But I really put. I got
spatchcocked chicken and just cooked it with white wine and
a bit of water, but like not boiling it, but
kind of raising it or boiling it probably, And then
did the sort of chicken cocino and brisket and that
(11:21):
was just and then we sold a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
But I didn't think.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
She did it with massive artichokes tolio on a plate
and lentils on the same plate.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Sorry. Wow, I just put on.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
The sideplate and I put the lentils on the plate
because I thought why not?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And then we were talking about, you know, but to
chicken and not to chicken, you know, sometimes.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Funny put the chicken out. We sold loads more.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, that's probably more than put it.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Out when I put the chicken in the night had it.
We didn't sell as many. The next lunch, I didn't
bother with the chicken and just had the tongue and
the brisket and we sold loads of it. It's just
the weather and the day, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then we have the Christmas desserts.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
One of the most easy desserts I think you can
knock up at home for maximum impacts and low workload.
It's a pressed chocolate cake because it's really looks it
tastes amazing, but it's very easy to make. But it's
like and also it's basically a chocolate soufle, so you're
(12:32):
not set up for failure by not letting it rise fully.
If you're making it home, you press it so no
one knows how it really did rise. And it's just chocolate, sugar,
are butter and eggs, but the eggs separated and then
folded through the white. It's just really delicious. So it's
as light as a souffle, but slightly pressed so it's
(12:53):
a little denser. And we serve it here at the
River Cafe around Christmas with either the zabagli or ice
cream or the most shocking to anyone that makes vincentto
Vincanta ice cream, which is like sort of borderline sacrilege
but also amazing.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I don't know. I think if you're gonna cook with vincentto,
I think Vincanta ice cream is the thing that kind
of keeps its because it's not like reduced. You know.
I was actually thinking of making something to go to
Christmas pudding. It's like, you know, you don't cook the
wine down, you just add the eggs and it's just perfect.
No I don't think. I think it's well.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I always feel embarrassed when we go to Tuscany and
if they're like, there was somebody who really objected to it.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Do you remember one of our or it was somebody
who saw who how can you possibly make ice cream?
But you know it comes from with Vincentta, but it
comes also from again Dada Rogers, who when she came
here and wanted said Boni, but during the war you
couldn't get Marcella, and so she combined Bristol cream sherry
(13:58):
with rum. That's a recipe for the ice cream. And
I love that ice cream. I like it better than
I don't like a heart.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, but that ice cream is really that ice cream.
I mean you don't have to have an ice cream
machine to make it, and so that is what you know.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You can make it at home. I could make it
in my house because I don't. I bet you have
an ice cream machine.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Well I do, but I really put it in the freezer.
And actually I love making ice creams like that at
home more.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I think because you make the does that you make
the egg yolks, the sugar, the vincanto alcohol, cook that
over a bammary volumeizes then you just make folding whipped
cream and then you can just put it in your
freezer done.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
You don't have to.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
It's a lot of whipping press chocolate ice cream and
the big balloon.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think the hint about thee or the Vincena ice
cream is that when you are cooking it at the
on the top of the stove, and one of the
nice things about making that ice cream is always that
you don't have to worry about it curdling. When you
make a vanilla ice cream, you'res have always worried that
it's going to curdle, but doing that ice cream because
there's no cream in one of let a bubble. But
(15:11):
I always think it's really important to cook it a
long time because it gets that taste where it's almost
sticks to the side.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I always used to stop.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Making it when it started sticking to the edges and
you knew it was getting thick and it was sticking,
and sometimes it would even go a bit dark. It
would go darker, and sometimes you'd get those little kurdles
of little.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Lumps from the eggs.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And I rather like that, yeah, because otherwise it can
taste a bit eggy and insipid and if you just
have to keep cooking and cooking and cooking it. I
remember always putting it back on the stove, and that
memory not taking it off too soon. And then the
other last Christmas go on Italian and adaptation of I
(15:57):
think the Christmas cake again from Trieste, from a recipe
that was changed over the years.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
So I met.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Data in nineteen sixty eight, but she was cooking and
teaching Rose for years. Rose was a friend of Richard's
and Rose new daughta before I did, and really talked
about her influence to Wendy Foster, to Rose, to Natalie Gibson,
the group of Richard's friends. She showed me all the recipes,
the recipes that she'd written for her Christmas cake, and
(16:29):
it was so beautiful to see. I wish I had
it because every year something would be crossed off.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Every year, something would be.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Changed every year, and ultimately what you had it started
out with. You know, I've never made a British Christmas cake,
but I guess it has a lot of nuts. It
has a lot of fruit. I don't know if it
has a lot of nuts, but it's fruit, and you know,
it's a bad with butter and sugar and and eggs
and data. What she did was she put more alcohol
(16:59):
in so marinated everything she put in. Everything that went
in was marinated first in brandy. And then I remember
she also became quite healthy and really had a really
hated butter. She thought butter was cholesterol. It was all
that cholesterol, and that was really bad for you. And
(17:19):
she I would kill Richard. You one said to me,
You're gonna kill Richard, you know, because you put so
much butter your food and her own husband. So she
was really reducing the butter, increasing the alcohol, and decreasing
the fruit. And so in the end what you had
was mostly cake with nuts, with chocolate with raisins and
(17:42):
some candied fruit, but maybe just you know, enough to
be in there. And then she every year kind of
increased chocolate, and so again it was a kind of
strange to have it really a Christmas cakes that has
so much chocolate. And the first recipe that Rose and
I put in I can't remember which book we put
it in, but it was pages and pages.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It was in the.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And then I think we also adapted it. Then it
was in the Green Book. And I know that when
I make it now I also cut out the the
fruit and put more nuts and chocolate in it, and
then more alcohol.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It's so good, it's a really good case.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I meant to bring some in for you because I.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Still have, Like I I was thinking I was going
to make a christ also thinking maybe I should make
a Christmas cake. But then the boring thing about Christmas
cake is all I mean, it's a lot of the
currants and yeah, kind of with Dada's cake, it's just
all the good stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
It's all the glasses and so it's not too dry.
I'll bring them in. I have some.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And then also the I think the great thing about
that cake is the marissap he came over anywhere, and
I put as much sugar, put all the ground almonds
in and then equal amount of sugar, so there's like
sugar and ground almonds. And then to hold it all together,
you just we just put our brand and so the
(19:09):
whole thing becomes it's quite a dry paste, but it
is it's total.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Was that does I think I did, because I think
it's coreat.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So you put the mars, so you make this paste
and then you press it on the top and then
you get it. You make it flat, and then you
get a fork and you kind of take the fork
and run it through, so it kind of lifts up
with the idea and being that when you put it
under the grill, you know, the top bits of it
will get grilled. And so he did that and it's
not a cake that the kids really like that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, more alcohol and the end. That's the case.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It reminds me when I was a really young chef.
I came to your house to help make that for
a photoshoot or something, and Rose and Ruth were both
there making it and I was just helping, like make
the cake. And then it came to the bit to
grill the masa panel. Not to grill the mas pan.
I presume you wanted to, Yeah, otherwise didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I think if you don't, if you don't grill it,
I can't. You know, you need to cook the mars pan. Yeah,
that's to make it sort of tasty.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Then we always I remember it was quite heated. I
remember you were getting heated and I was like, I
don't know what.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Okay. So we have the ice, we have the with vadka,
we have the bulita mista with sauces and Maustada and
then we have the Vincento ice cream with the Saboni
and we have a candied hazel nut and Clemantine Christmas cake.
Happy Christmas, Happy Christmas, Happy Christmas.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Next week, I'm with the Table for I'm with the
absolutely wonderful Rashida Jones, actor of The American Office, Parks
and Rec and Black Mirror. We're going to talk about
her parents, cooking, eating on set, traveling, and all the
memories she has of food and music. Watch this conversation
(21:17):
on Tuesday, December twenty third, along with all our other episodes.
Just head over to our YouTube channel or simply listen
wherever you find your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Ruthie's Table four was produced by Alex Belle and Zad Rogers,
with Susannahlot, Andrew Sang, and Bella Silini. This has been
an atomized production for iHeartMedia.
Ruthie's Table four is now on YouTube. To watch this
episode and others, just visit Ruthy's Table four dot com
forward Slash YouTube.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in collaboration with me
and m Intelligence Style for Busy Women. Today's December eighteenth,
and you can feel the festive quality the River Cafe,
the Christmas trees on the lawn, and the room looks great.
(00:29):
We have lights, we have people coming in to spend
more time at lunch, and there is a feeling of
the celebration. So we're going to talk about what we're
actually cooking in the River Cafe right now. And so
here we are with Sean Owen and Joseph Tavelli, the
executive chefs, and we're all going to talk. So tell
me about what we're cooking today, Sean. We both have
(00:50):
your chef's sites on Joseph in preparation for tonight. Sean,
running away from the.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
The middle of lunch.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Don't worry idea what they're celebrating in there, because we're
in here. So what did you I was on the menu?
What are you thinking about when you're thinking about your menu?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yeah, this week I think is pulling out all the
stops for decadent dining. I think people feel that they
can eat in a way this last week coming up
to Christmas, than the way that they're not going to
be eating in January. So I'd like to just put
on some things I just think sound quite flamboyant decadent.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I mean, today at lunchtime, what is it Thursday?
Speaker 4 (01:31):
I've put on the penne with the vodka and tomato
and Chilian cream. But I was trying to explain to
the chefs how to cook that. So it's not just
a tomato sauce with a vague hint of vodka, but
it has to be a tomato sauce with vodka cooked
into it. And then what we've also done is put
(01:51):
it through the movie. So it's very smooth.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Why did you take it through the recipe?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Just say it tastes step by stay.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Yeah, so with vodka cream and.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah, so been using the penne. That is a smooth penney,
so it hasn't got the ridges on it, which I
think is really nice for that kind of dish.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I don't know if you disagree with it.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
And then fry some garlic, a couple of clothes of garlic,
drain the liquid off the tomatoes and chopped tomatoes, put
them in, and then I put like a good glug
like probably I mean for a whole restaurant of people,
I would use a whole bottle of vodka, but if.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You're making it for two, maybe not a whole bottle.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
It good.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
It's a good, good, generous shot of Vogora two depending
on how in our case, probably half a bottle of vodka.
Then cook it down with a flick of chili and
let that cook down so it's really well cooked down
for about twenty minutes, and then we put it through
the movie so it's really smooth. And another thing we
never do it, Yeah, I think so nice, there's no gesture.
(02:57):
And then put a splash of cream in to just
give it a bit of kind of extra lux feel.
And then when we're serving it, we're warming up the penne,
well we're heat cooking the penneating the penne, adding that
to the tomato sauce, and then putting what I would
think would be an extra shot of voka in it,
and a good big massive pinch of black pepper and
a bit of olive oil. So it's really like don't drink,
(03:20):
don't drive offter and many don't.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Give it to a king. I was going to say,
may the taste.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Everybody probably wanted to taste the tomato sauce like never before.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Yeah, well I put it on for staff lunch and
I said, without the extra shot of AKA. But it's
really warming and it's got a bit of a kick.
It feels a bit like a bit of fun, which
is just nice on lunchtime.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think beautiful.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
It's funny how somethings just suit certain moments, isn't it.
It's obviously a Christmas thing, you know, Like in fact,
someone said to me, what keep asking me what's your
Christmas drink? And maybe I was thinking a bit morning after,
but anything, it was bloody Mary. You know, it's not
something I have very often, but for some reason it
sort of suits now.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, and of course you could have it on a
Monday in March.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
But somehow that last week of the year where you
pulling out o the stops, I've put on the tagler
Reini with cavia, which is something that is just the
real last week of the year, something that's a bit like.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
People, Yeah, how do you make that taller?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Reini, just some butter, like a few drops of lemon juice,
a little bit of black pepper, and then put that
on the plate in a nice tower and put a
spoonful of caviar on top.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Yeah, it's really nice here in these things. Because you know,
I'm not there by definition when you're telling people how
to do this, because I'm at home waiting for my shift.
But you've just described exactly what I said last night.
Almost won't work. Well.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
The other night I came in, I was on the
other side. I was in the kitchen. I was a
table and there was belita on me still, which I
think was also partly inspired by the time of year,
but also inspired by the fad that we had some
much delicious mustarda that had been made.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
It's also true, oh my gosh, we've never had such
good mustada from Jeneva, and a mustarda is supposed to
be from Cremona. But this Jeneva mustada is what did
you think was just the actual fruits that the way
they come from a special sweet factory.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Let's tell people what it is.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
So it's a fruits with mustard essence, mustard essence which
you can't buy here. You know, it's the same essence
I think you'd used for mustard gas. So you can't
go to a pharmacy, and it's not I think even
in Italy it's not easy to get hold of. So
it's generally because quite often, you know, people would have
a jar of fruits and just add a few drops
from a pipet. But these days you just buy already done.
(05:43):
So you've got this lovely sweet fruit which is often candied,
although not always, but in our case very much is
this year so kind of candied fruits with just these
few little drops of mustard essence, and it has that
lovely you know, sweet hot kind of an equal kind
of an equal balance, really nice, and it's great with
loads of things, you know. It's you know, certain mustadas
are delicious with cheese, for example. But the thing we
(06:07):
do with it more often than not here is have
it with boiled meats.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
This bullito misto with these kind of three sauces is
really fundamental. And in fact, when I'm asking a chef
like I did the other night, to make this billito,
probably for the first time, she'd ever like put it
on the plate, you know, the plate of the meats
with a few lentils and maybe a carrot or whatever
else is good, but it's nothing. I have to just
(06:31):
take them to the past and say, now look with
the sauces, because it's so much, you know, part of
the mustada. Then we have horse radish, which is obviously
equally spicy and still sweet as we put cream.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
In, so.
Speaker 5 (06:48):
Horse radish with great horse radish and then chop it
more finely still, and then we always mix it with
crem fresh because we have this most amazing crem fresh
from the nils Yard dairy they make for us. So
we mix the two together and then just a few
drops of vinegar and salt and pepper and that's it,
you know, and we probably make that more days than not.
You know. It's really loads of things. Yeah, you know,
(07:12):
so that's oneful. So it has that. It's kind of
like creamy, rich hot sauce. These mustard fruits, you know,
which can be figs or pears or the jars we have.
At the moment you open there is one, yeah, one
at the moment there's actually a strawberry in there. I've
been avoiding the strawberries, but anyway, there's a yeah, but
(07:36):
the factory that makes these. This roman ango is amazing.
They candy strawberries, you know, like that is just like
it's another thing.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yesterday I was putting mustada on the blast, but there
was little tiny orange like.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
It wasn't a apricot maybe or even nothing. There's all
sorts of it's.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
A kind of tiny orange like maybe like a mandarin
or something.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
And then there's a third sauce, which is we make
two versions of a similar source. One we call dragon
Cello because it's with tarragon. It's probably the only thing
we ever do with tarragon here or Bangyette, and they're
exactly the same. But the Bangyette sauce is probably more
traditional pier montee sauce, similar to like a sort of
(08:17):
Southern French sauce, I suppose, but with boiled eggs chopped
and tons of parsley and the yellow.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Do you just use the yellow?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, but there's some When I was in bowl and
Aisy and in real they were only using yellow. But
Richard's mother used to make it all on a board,
never used a bowl, and so you would you know,
you'd have the egg, you'd have all the ingredients and
then you combine it, chop it all on the board
and then scoop it up.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Nice to make it with.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Yeah, just shoppened it yesterday, just ready for you.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Just how it used to make that. We used the
medical or time.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I mean in the early early days we were all
on the matalon and then it became kind of uncor.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Knives. Let's bring back maybe we could do.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
That for.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
It's a great.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Workout.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
At once, well there was a double bladed one which
was that very nice, and then the big really big
one like that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
It's really like upper body.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, okay, to the left way. So so what about
the let's talk more about the meats.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
So then the meats. Yeah, you can have all sorts
of things. I mean, and there's loads. I mean, you know,
I think I like blito actually all year round is delicious.
And there's plenty of restaurants, you know, all over the
sort of central and northern ity that just specifies, you know,
like we have carveries, you know, just you know, boil
and roast things. But what's lovely about this time of
(09:57):
year is people are more likely to order it. I
mean that's the truth. You know, people fancy it, you know,
it's freezing, it's raining. Something warming with this burjawed fruits.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
On that we had the other night that we.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
Had tongue, which is very commonly we have tongue ox tongue.
We had beef. We had some beef brisket that we cooked,
and I came in early and put them on at eleven,
so they were boiled slowly the day until the evening.
And then coin. I think coachino is pretty much essential
for us for a blito mistake.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I just love.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I really like what we do.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Just a coin and lentils as a as a plate.
Nothing else we do.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
We never get zamponi anymore. I'd love to. I haven't
tried it for years. Actually, I'd like to try it again.
Maybe it's too much.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
It's like eating like.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I did belita yesterday language and I didn't put tongue
in it. I don't know why, because I wonder whether
that's one of those sort of ingredients that's slightly less approachable.
I don't know if it puts people off.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
So I put.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I mean it's not it's perfectly delicious, but we didn't
have any left anyway, But I really put. I got
spatchcocked chicken and just cooked it with white wine and
a bit of water, but like not boiling it, but
kind of raising it or boiling it probably, And then
did the sort of chicken cocino and brisket and that
(11:21):
was just and then we sold a lot.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
But I didn't think.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
She did it with massive artichokes tolio on a plate
and lentils on the same plate.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Sorry. Wow, I just put on.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
The sideplate and I put the lentils on the plate
because I thought why not?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And then we were talking about, you know, but to
chicken and not to chicken, you know, sometimes.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Funny put the chicken out. We sold loads more.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, that's probably more than put it.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Out when I put the chicken in the night had it.
We didn't sell as many. The next lunch, I didn't
bother with the chicken and just had the tongue and
the brisket and we sold loads of it. It's just
the weather and the day, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
And then we have the Christmas desserts.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
One of the most easy desserts I think you can
knock up at home for maximum impacts and low workload.
It's a pressed chocolate cake because it's really looks it
tastes amazing, but it's very easy to make. But it's
like and also it's basically a chocolate soufle, so you're
(12:32):
not set up for failure by not letting it rise fully.
If you're making it home, you press it so no
one knows how it really did rise. And it's just chocolate, sugar,
are butter and eggs, but the eggs separated and then
folded through the white. It's just really delicious. So it's
as light as a souffle, but slightly pressed so it's
(12:53):
a little denser. And we serve it here at the
River Cafe around Christmas with either the zabagli or ice
cream or the most shocking to anyone that makes vincentto
Vincanta ice cream, which is like sort of borderline sacrilege
but also amazing.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
I don't know. I think if you're gonna cook with vincentto,
I think Vincanta ice cream is the thing that kind
of keeps its because it's not like reduced. You know.
I was actually thinking of making something to go to
Christmas pudding. It's like, you know, you don't cook the
wine down, you just add the eggs and it's just perfect.
No I don't think. I think it's well.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I always feel embarrassed when we go to Tuscany and
if they're like, there was somebody who really objected to it.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Do you remember one of our or it was somebody
who saw who how can you possibly make ice cream?
But you know it comes from with Vincentta, but it
comes also from again Dada Rogers, who when she came
here and wanted said Boni, but during the war you
couldn't get Marcella, and so she combined Bristol cream sherry
(13:58):
with rum. That's a recipe for the ice cream. And
I love that ice cream. I like it better than
I don't like a heart.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
Yeah, but that ice cream is really that ice cream.
I mean you don't have to have an ice cream
machine to make it, and so that is what you know.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You can make it at home. I could make it
in my house because I don't. I bet you have
an ice cream machine.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Well I do, but I really put it in the freezer.
And actually I love making ice creams like that at
home more.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
I think because you make the does that you make
the egg yolks, the sugar, the vincanto alcohol, cook that
over a bammary volumeizes then you just make folding whipped
cream and then you can just put it in your
freezer done.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
You don't have to.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
It's a lot of whipping press chocolate ice cream and
the big balloon.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I think the hint about thee or the Vincena ice
cream is that when you are cooking it at the
on the top of the stove, and one of the
nice things about making that ice cream is always that
you don't have to worry about it curdling. When you
make a vanilla ice cream, you'res have always worried that
it's going to curdle, but doing that ice cream because
there's no cream in one of let a bubble. But
(15:11):
I always think it's really important to cook it a
long time because it gets that taste where it's almost
sticks to the side.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
I always used to stop.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Making it when it started sticking to the edges and
you knew it was getting thick and it was sticking,
and sometimes it would even go a bit dark. It
would go darker, and sometimes you'd get those little kurdles
of little.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Lumps from the eggs.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
And I rather like that, yeah, because otherwise it can
taste a bit eggy and insipid and if you just
have to keep cooking and cooking and cooking it. I
remember always putting it back on the stove, and that
memory not taking it off too soon. And then the
other last Christmas go on Italian and adaptation of I
(15:57):
think the Christmas cake again from Trieste, from a recipe
that was changed over the years.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
So I met.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Data in nineteen sixty eight, but she was cooking and
teaching Rose for years. Rose was a friend of Richard's
and Rose new daughta before I did, and really talked
about her influence to Wendy Foster, to Rose, to Natalie Gibson,
the group of Richard's friends. She showed me all the recipes,
the recipes that she'd written for her Christmas cake, and
(16:29):
it was so beautiful to see. I wish I had
it because every year something would be crossed off.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Every year, something would be.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Changed every year, and ultimately what you had it started
out with. You know, I've never made a British Christmas cake,
but I guess it has a lot of nuts. It
has a lot of fruit. I don't know if it
has a lot of nuts, but it's fruit, and you know,
it's a bad with butter and sugar and and eggs
and data. What she did was she put more alcohol
(16:59):
in so marinated everything she put in. Everything that went
in was marinated first in brandy. And then I remember
she also became quite healthy and really had a really
hated butter. She thought butter was cholesterol. It was all
that cholesterol, and that was really bad for you. And
(17:19):
she I would kill Richard. You one said to me,
You're gonna kill Richard, you know, because you put so
much butter your food and her own husband. So she
was really reducing the butter, increasing the alcohol, and decreasing
the fruit. And so in the end what you had
was mostly cake with nuts, with chocolate with raisins and
(17:42):
some candied fruit, but maybe just you know, enough to
be in there. And then she every year kind of
increased chocolate, and so again it was a kind of
strange to have it really a Christmas cakes that has
so much chocolate. And the first recipe that Rose and
I put in I can't remember which book we put
it in, but it was pages and pages.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
It was in the.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And then I think we also adapted it. Then it
was in the Green Book. And I know that when
I make it now I also cut out the the
fruit and put more nuts and chocolate in it, and
then more alcohol.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It's so good, it's a really good case.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I meant to bring some in for you because I.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Still have, Like I I was thinking I was going
to make a christ also thinking maybe I should make
a Christmas cake. But then the boring thing about Christmas
cake is all I mean, it's a lot of the
currants and yeah, kind of with Dada's cake, it's just
all the good stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
It's all the glasses and so it's not too dry.
I'll bring them in. I have some.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And then also the I think the great thing about
that cake is the marissap he came over anywhere, and
I put as much sugar, put all the ground almonds
in and then equal amount of sugar, so there's like
sugar and ground almonds. And then to hold it all together,
you just we just put our brand and so the
(19:09):
whole thing becomes it's quite a dry paste, but it
is it's total.
Speaker 5 (19:15):
Was that does I think I did, because I think
it's coreat.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
So you put the mars, so you make this paste
and then you press it on the top and then
you get it. You make it flat, and then you
get a fork and you kind of take the fork
and run it through, so it kind of lifts up
with the idea and being that when you put it
under the grill, you know, the top bits of it
will get grilled. And so he did that and it's
not a cake that the kids really like that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, more alcohol and the end. That's the case.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It reminds me when I was a really young chef.
I came to your house to help make that for
a photoshoot or something, and Rose and Ruth were both
there making it and I was just helping, like make
the cake. And then it came to the bit to
grill the masa panel. Not to grill the mas pan.
I presume you wanted to, Yeah, otherwise didn't want to.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I think if you don't, if you don't grill it,
I can't. You know, you need to cook the mars pan. Yeah,
that's to make it sort of tasty.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Then we always I remember it was quite heated. I
remember you were getting heated and I was like, I
don't know what.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Okay. So we have the ice, we have the with vadka,
we have the bulita mista with sauces and Maustada and
then we have the Vincento ice cream with the Saboni
and we have a candied hazel nut and Clemantine Christmas cake.
Happy Christmas, Happy Christmas, Happy Christmas.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Next week, I'm with the Table for I'm with the
absolutely wonderful Rashida Jones, actor of The American Office, Parks
and Rec and Black Mirror. We're going to talk about
her parents, cooking, eating on set, traveling, and all the
memories she has of food and music. Watch this conversation
(21:17):
on Tuesday, December twenty third, along with all our other episodes.
Just head over to our YouTube channel or simply listen
wherever you find your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Ruthie's Table four was produced by Alex Belle and Zad Rogers,
with Susannahlot, Andrew Sang, and Bella Silini. This has been
an atomized production for iHeartMedia.
Host
Ruth Rogers
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.