Bonus: Dame Jacinda Ardern on unexpectedly becoming a world leader

Dame Jacinda Ardern reflects on how she became Prime Minister of New Zealand in unexpected circumstances, the challenges of governing through COVID, and the importance of dignity within the welfare system.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Just take me to your life as the prime minister.
That is a big deal.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
It was relatively unexpected.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I was the deputy leader in twenty seventeen when New
Zealand had an election and my boss decided that he
was unlikely to win, and so he seven weeks out
from the Andrew Little was his name?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Was he Labor?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
He was? He was an ex trade union lawyer and
president of one of our bigger trade unions. A great guy,
but was struggling in the polls. So he came to
work and one day and then just quit and nominated
me to be the leader. And so I suddenly found
myself campaigning unexpectedly to be prime minister.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
How much time was there between being made leader and
having to run?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Actually roughly seven weeks, I said, it's very short. That's
very sure, very short. Yeah, I mean we already had
the billboards up with his name on them.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
So have you met Kamala?

Speaker 2 (00:59):
I have got the time.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, the same experience, same experience, and you know there
are parallels being thrust into the situation.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yes, it was, Yeah, it was a real situation. And
then of course New Zealand has an MMP system, so
it means that you don't always know who's going to
be able to form governments. We then, after the election
went into negotiations for a couple of weeks. During most
negotiations was when I found out I was pregnant. And

(01:30):
then threeish days later they the small party who was
making a decision over who they would form a government with,
chose us and I became Prime minister. Governed for five years.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
And we know that. I do have to say, you know,
I said in my introduction, how you are heroic. You
are heroic and the world was watching you.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
And thankfully I didn't know that at the time, which
is quite helpful. I think, you know, really snippets during COVID,
I remember the UK media covering our COVID response and
you know, at times thinking, you know, everyone's just doing
the best they can, you know, and you know, I
remember thinking, how could things that are meant to be

(02:16):
based on science, how do they become political? I feel
the same way about climate change. You know, these issues
where actually we have an evidence base around the problem
that exists, and sure, you know, there might be different
interpretations around what the best thing is to do, but
so often now politics creeps into things where I just
don't think it belongs, you know, and it was nothing's

(02:37):
ever universal, but in New Zealand, some of those values
of actually we're an island nation where we expect people
to do their bit to look after one another, that
mentality really shone through.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
How did you meet?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, my father very proudly. I remember him arriving and
announcing very proudly to everyone, don't worry, I have bought
the bread maker.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Sat amazing how bread was It became such a huge.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Thing, fascinating, fascinating. I remember, of course we had just
like everyone ounced, we had flower worries about flower and
new shortages. And I remember walking home after we'd made
an announcement and just saying, everyone, look, Supermarke is going
to stay open. You don't need to hoard It's going
to be okay. I was walking home from Parliament towards
Premier House and as I was walking over the over bridge,

(03:25):
there was this couple and they flipped open the boot
of the car and pulled out a big five kg
bag of flower. And they saw me and immediately said,
look it was the only thing. There was only size
we could get.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
There were four of apologies I was like, it's fine,
it's fine, but it almost felt illicit, you know, But
so we had we had we had the bread maker,
and of course my mum bought everything out of her
store cupboard and then we would just do what others
do and we just cooked it on.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah. One of the great concerns of COVID, many many
concerned was poverty. Yeah, the effect which was awakening from
many many people that children who didn't go to school
didn't have lunch. How many families depended on the school lunch. Yeah,
very often it was there only meal of the day. Yes,

(04:21):
did you approach that?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
We were mindful of that. I remember when we were
planning for having to be in lockdown, thinking about what
about our rough sleeping community, how do we house them?
What about those who experience family violence because the stress
of these circumstances works as about it and for some
children their their relief from family violences school and what

(04:46):
about of course those on low incomes. And so we
thought about all of that. We increased rates about in
our benefit system, we were providing essentially forms of care
packaging for families, both of essentials but also of school
educational equipment, so that schooling could continue at home. We

(05:07):
used two of our TV channels to run education shows
in English and a Maori. I remember that constantly being
on my mind. I was a Minister for Child Poverty Reduction,
so kids were always in the front of my mind
and so we did what we could. But it was tough.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
And is it is it food poverty in New Zealand?

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, yes it is. We put we created a Lunches
in Schools program when we were in office, targeting low
income schools and we provided universal food in schools and
those we didn't. I hated the idea of stigma facings.
So if we were going to provide a program, it
would be for the kids, it would be for the teachers.
Everyone would have access because before that that'd run, you'd

(05:51):
have kiboxes. Kids would have to go and ask and
I didn't want that. We did the same for period poverty,
so we would put we've put period products into all
New Zealand schools because we wanted to overcome stigma around
those issues as well. What I really want is to
ensure that people have dignity, and there is dignity and

(06:13):
financial security, and yes we have to have a welfare
system that needs to be a decent welfare system, because
you can fall on hard times, you can lose your work,
you can find yourself an illness, you can find yourself
suddenly caring for children on your own. So we need
to have a dignified welfare system. We can't forget that
the call work still required of lifting incomes, decent jobs,

(06:34):
job security, decent housing,