February 24, 2025 • 35 mins
Erling Kagge is one of the world's great explorers - a man whose life embraces solitude. That is, when he‘s not being attacked by a polar bear… thankfully, he lived to tell the tale. He is the first person to reach, by foot, the North Pole, South Pole, and Mount Everest. Erling and my life might be dissimilar, but we share a love for the unknown. For him, it might be a new horizon. For me, a discovery of a little-known Sicilian recipe. Today, we're here on our own adventure, not on the top of a mountain or in the icy North Pole, but safe and warm in the River Cafe.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Arling Caaga is one of the world's great explorers, a
man whose life embraces solitude. He is the first person
to reach by foot the North Pole, South Pole, and
Mount Everest. His new book, The North Pole, The History
of an Obsession, is published this week, a compelling read,
taking us into his world of adventure, hidden dreams, adversity
(00:28):
and silence. Arling in My life might be dissimilar, but
we share a love for the unknown. For him, it
might be a new horizon for me, a discovery of
a little known Sicilian recipe. To day, we're here on
our own adventure, not on the top of a mountain
or in the icy North Pole, but safe and warm
(00:48):
in the river.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Cafe ha so Everest, South Pole, The North Pole.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Can you remember the times when you actually thought you
might die?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I never felt I might die, But if my mother
had seen me, she would certainly believe I was close
to dying quite a few times when you fall into
the water. But also, like we were attacked by a
polar bear.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Stop there, tell us. Many people start a sence like that,
what happened? Story?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
We were close to the north pole. Suddenly heard my
partner but shouted hoy, which I never heard him showed before.
So I looked up and then saw polar bear at
twenty meters distance. How big was the bear probably if
you got after maybe two hundred and fifty kilos and
this far north, as we said as a joke afterwards,
(01:43):
is nothing to eat but polar explorers. So we knew
we knew it was going to charge. But when the
polar bears saw that we had seen seen it, it
stopped and we were able to dig into over sledges
and get a handgun each among forty four each. So
(02:04):
I got the gun and it was this short barrel
because we want to say, wait, so only two inches barrel,
so you can't hit the bear at twenty meters distance.
You had to wait until this close. But then my
partner berg, Yeah, he had this idea that he really
wanted to be published in National Geographic Magazine, which was
(02:26):
the biggest thing at the time. This was over Bible.
We kind of read like every Thursday.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I was an American who received it. Do you get
it every month?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Actually get that yellow exactly every third is or something
that had something on an expedition, which we always read
like it was like the New Testament. So he got
this idea, this is my chance. So he dropped the gun,
got the camera. He didn't have a film camera. This
was the time he had a film camera. And then
he got me posing between him and the bear. So
(02:56):
it took some photos and soon after the bear turned
towards us start to dig its four feet into the snow,
lowered its neck, so you knew of those gone to
charge and it can run up to sixty kilimelan over,
so it's so it's and it's twenty meters, so it's
it's let's say it was forty k over, so it's
(03:18):
really close up. Were both hired and hit it in
the chest, so it's and it's like, you know, neither
of us are you know, any desire to kill an animal,
and definitely not a polar bear. But when it's a
matter about who's having who for dinner, the choice for
simple even Gandey said you should kill an animal, want
(03:38):
to kill you.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're here with Sean Renowan, who is director of The
River Cafe, the executive chef of the River Cafe, a
great friend of mine and has also wanted to talk
to you when I told you you were coming about food.
What we do as chefs, what you do is and
explore what is the food? If I was coming Sean
and I were coming to Norway and you were cooking
(04:02):
something to represent your kind of history in your life,
what would you give us?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I would in terms of meat, I would give you
sever reindeer, a low reindeer. And what reasonal low reindeer
is because reindeer lives a happy life from born until
its suddenly is dead, which I find very comfortable that
that the animal hasn't suffered because of meat. So and
also it's super tasty.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Is it like venison? Is it sweet?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
No, it's it's I think it's richer in taste, of
course depends on what part of the of the reindeer,
and it's tasted a little bit wilderness. It tastes like,
you know, a little bit like being above the tree line,
you know, well cooked or you know, it's it's really
outstanding meal. And of course in Norway we have so
(04:52):
much seafood. Now it's cold season and I had some
cold a few days ago and it's just believe amazing.
And it's if you have a good piece which I
will get is almost ful proof.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
How do you cook it?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
The most important thing with cod is that which people
kind of forget or do not do not know, is
that you need to first of all, of course, get
a great piece, but then you need to salt it
heavily and leave it for at least twenty minutes, and
then rinse it with cold water because that makes the
(05:29):
fabric of the meat you call the meat and fabric
or the much more like almost like lobster meat, so
it doesn't fall apart in a way, like you know,
and also the tastes get a little bit richer. And
then afterwards you salt it and pepper it, and I
usually then put it in the oven on maybe two
(05:49):
and twenty degrees for twenty five minutes, maybe a plus
minus depending on the size of the piece, with some herbs,
and maybe I make some mash the root vegetables, but
definitely have a great salad and some good wine.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Okay, let's go.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I love having people visiting and make food, because that's
one of the great pressures you can have is to
share great food that you're really pretty heart into and
some good wines.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, what was it like? Growing up in Oslo. Will
you talk to your family what was food like in
your house?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
You know, I grew up in Olslow in the born
in sixty three and in the typical middle class family,
and middle class family at that time in Norway was
very different from middle class families today because post oil
fortune and mid class in Norways is different. So we
had like typical was you start the week Mondays Tuesdays
(06:51):
with something called fish balls like and then whale steaks whale.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Really, let's take this slowly, fish.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like you made this kind of instead of meat balls
like fish balls like very popular Norway. Kind of simple,
not super healthy. I'm totally okay food. And at that
time fish is quite often cold, and whale was very
popular Norway.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
In the six.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
You know, if you have the best part of the whale,
it's delicious, but whale is huge, and of course we
had we didn't have the best part. And then it's
quite rough, raw, rough taste a little bit like seal.
But that maybe doesn't say it's so much either.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I've never been to the fish well steal.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, it's rough, but that's you know, it's a common
course in Norway at the time. And then and the
rest of the week. You know, it's the quality increased.
And then typically on Saturdays we had stimps or a
good piece of meat, and the same on Sundays and
always pudding.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
What would you have pudding?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
You know, this kind of chocolate thing or like the
strawberry thing, kind of quite simple but still cutting.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Everything that's important to your family.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yes, and it became more and more important. My father
was a jazz critic, and not to have something extra
to do, he became a restaurant critic, so he took
me to the restaurant quite often when he meta critics.
So yeah, it became more and more important.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And did you play a lot of jazz.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Just all the time. My father said that pop music,
TV and cars are diseases in society and we should
only listen to jazz, blues and gospel music because it
was a just critic. We've got to we've got to
meet all this, you know, just musicians. He left his jail.
(08:50):
They all came to Norway, like you know, because in
Norway's they were superstars, you know. They came to our
house and every alcohol was very expensive and away at
the time, so we my father's sailed over sailed boat
to Germany every summer, and we bought dicker and took
it back home to Norway, and then we had a
big parties in the house. People got drunk and they
(09:12):
were playing and jamming into the night. I don't unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And what about school? Tell me about going to school
every day?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
School was not good to me.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You were dyslexic. Yeah, my husband is dyslexic, exactly, but
in those days they didn't actually well in his days
he was older than you.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
They just called it being stupid exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
I think, you know, it's the good thing having those
disadvantages is that you learn all of the teacher tries
to help you. You learn not to trust authorities. I
had to find my own way to learn the same
as everyone else in class, so the teacher really couldn't
help me. And also you learn that life is brutal
(09:59):
at the early age. And I think you know, the
sooner you learn it, the better it this in your life.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You have children.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I have three daughters.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
You want them to know that life is brutal.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Actually, actually I want them to know life is brutal.
And they know life is brutal, but of course they
have to learn it their own way.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
When did you first become in love with a pole?
Speaker 4 (10:24):
With the first time I became aware of the North Pole,
I was seven years old. My parents gave me this globe,
this globeust for my birthday present, and this was in
nineteen seventy. So at that time, the globes were small,
a bit bluish, dark blue where the oceans were deep,
it was dark brown where the mountains were high. And
(10:47):
at the top of the globe it was a little
flat metal plate to kind of hold the globe together.
And then I was wondering what's below that metal and
of course that was a North Pole. And then, as
you know, then I was wondering about it, and then
slowly through my life I got more and more interested
(11:07):
and eventually obsessed about walking to the North Pole. So
I was in love with the North Pole for many years.
And of course, as soon as I got to the pole,
I understood my real obsession had been about walking towards
the poll and not getting to the pole. The arrival
is like you know, it's the hunt is always more
(11:29):
fascinating than actually the killing.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Tell us the early days of walking.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I remember the first time I understood that I could
walk in any direction I wanted. I walked home from
kindergarten norway safe you walked back and forth to the
kindergarten by yourself, And I was walking towards over home.
Then suddenly understood I could just turn ninety degrees and
walk straight into the forest. That was a beautiful feeling.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And then.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
And then I was dreaming, and I was dreaming about
sailing the oceans, which I eventually did through my twenties.
And then this idea about, like you know, really fulfilling
my dream about walking to the North Pole kept on
popping up in my head, and eventually, in nineteen ninety
(12:23):
Berga Aslan and myself we did it, and they prepared for.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
More than ski.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
He was a guy I had never met before. He
had the same dream, obsessed by getting to the North Pole,
and obsessed by getting to the North Pole in the
most difficult way, not using ski doos or dogs or
air supply, but just walking, dragging over sledges all the
way to the North Pole. The first thurday nights we
(12:53):
shared sleeping bag. And then eventually, like you know, off
doing such an expedition, he either become friends or the opposite. Unfortunately,
we became very close friends.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
You had a great question. Oh no, I was.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
We were just asking how you know when you get
to the North Pole, is it like a sign.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Welcome to Because when you get to the pole, the ice,
you're standing in the ice. The ice is moving all
the time, so after a few hours you're a little
bit off the North Pole, depending on the drift. But
the thing at the North Pole which is interesting is
that the sun has the same angle above the horizon
for twenty four hours, so the needly goes up and down,
(13:37):
and then of course and of course the compass needle
is pointing to ourselves. The wind comes from the south,
it blowing towards the south. It's one day and one
night every year. The sun rises once and it sets
once during a year, so it's but then again it's
it's just ice. It's just a mathematical point there.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
You have to lose yourself to get the place.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
That's the interesting thing, because when they get to the
northfoll it's not there. There, it's nothing. It's just ice,
gray white, and maybe the horizon is blue. That's it,
and it's moving. It's it's it's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Perhaps we should actually talk about you and iron chine.
We're going to the north pole.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Were going.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Okay, we can slow, you can slaughter halfway and.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
The north So we're there, and I would like to
know what is my food daylight? What will I be eating?
What's the longest time you've gone on a trip? Would
it be for a month? Would it be seas too much?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Like sixty six to five days?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Sixty five?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Bring all the food you need, we do the whole time.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Okay, So what are the disciplines around that? How much
it will wait to carry, how much space it will take,
and how much nutrition will it give you?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yes? Balance it's you eat around one kilow every day
with dried food and they mix it with water. It's
all dry old dryeder say weight because what is it
for breakfast? You have a o oat meal?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
You have to use a lot of water.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Then, Yeah, from melting ice and snow. Oh so you
don't bring in the water. So that's a good noise,
that's a goodness. So don't worry about that.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Take any you just take the snow and just let it.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah, you need to find all old ice because fresh
fresh ice contains lots of salt. So you can tell
by the color of the eyes if it contains salt
or not. And then how do you melt it? You
melt it by having little primasies that what they call
it little heater, which is made in a way so
all the heat from the flame goes to the pot.
(15:56):
So even when it's minus fourteen fifty degrees, we're not
heating the tent. It gets a little bit warmer because
of the body heat, but it's we don't heat the tent.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Why don't you want to eat?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Because you want to say weight. So you have like
two des liters of fuel per day, and then you
have to really save everything because you've got the drag
everything you need for more than two months. And then
you're not having enough fuel to heat the tent, so
you're freezing so much to actually you know you sometimes
you start crying because you're freezing so much. But anyway,
(16:33):
so this this old milk, but also we mix it
with formula milk, dried formula milk, because that's what gives
the most energy. Program and then eat the same for
larnch throughout the day. Maybe some chocolate or definitely some chocolate,
but with extra calories, especially made chocolate. The extra calories
just as ack like a snack having brakes and maybe chocolate,
(16:56):
like you have to get used to the taste, I
really because it's so much fat in it, so it
doesn't really taste well at home. But you know, the
thing is this food is none of this food tastes
really good when you start eating it. But then as
it days and weeks pass by and you get more
and more tired and more and more hungry, it tastes
(17:18):
better and better and better, and eventually it tastes as
good as a food that we recoffee. Absolutely, that's the
whole thing that expeditions. You need to be really well prepared.
It's like this Nowigian explorer Amundson road that victory awaits
the one who has everything in order. People calls it
(17:41):
good luck, while defeat always follows bad preparations, people calls
it bad luck. It's brutal and true. Are you hungry
all these hungry? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Always?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
So we are still meeting twice a year, but me
and we're eating the food we're dreaming about while walking
towards the pol Oh that's nice.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So then that's all the through the day, and.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Then then we have dinner, which is dried meat and
either some pasta or some mushed potatoes to get some volume.
And again lots of fat. And that's when.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
You say lots of fats. What would that be like?
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Quite a few spoonfuls every evening. And then because we're starving,
one had to split the portions and the other one
had to choose. So then you make sure that we
get you know, equal portions.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
I have to take like implements to cook like a
regular billy can or would you take special lightweight kit
that you can use to cook and.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Supert Everything is light, Everything is light. That's the thing
you need to keep everything of. The slogan is think
had travel light and leave the fairs behind.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
You your fears.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yeah, that's sort kind of recipe for getting to the
North Pole.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
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(19:36):
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Speaker 3 (19:43):
Now, I was.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Going to ask you if you ever on a trip
were aware that it might be your birthday, it might
be Christmas, it might be a Norwegian holiday.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Do you celebrate in any way?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yes. When I walked to the South Paul alone, I
had Christmas and New Year's by myself. I was alone
for fifty days and nights.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And fifty were alone for fifty days and.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
No radio and no telephone contact, so in total solitude.
So then I was still remembering Christmas Eve, which is
a big day in Norway. I ate a little bit extra,
had a piece of cake with me. When you're alone
for such a long time, you kind of stop thinking
in the sense that the past and the future don't
(20:36):
matter so much. And of course that's a kind of
a noise too, because thinking and think about the past
or the future, but very much in the present. You
kind of stop thinking, which is a beautiful feeling. But
then on Christmas Eve, I sat there eating this cake,
I felt like, at least like, you know, then I
was thinking about people back home and that they were
(20:56):
thinking about me. Because also when you're alone for such
a long time you don't really believe people, then you
kind of you kind of get a feeling that you're
also kind of forgotten.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And was ther pleasure that you had when you were okay?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
The pleasure is I think the pleasures on an expedition
are there original sources to gratefulness in the sense that
you get rest when you're tired, you get warm after
having been cold, you get full after having been hungry,
and that kind of that's what gratefulness is about. And
(21:35):
I think gratefulness is one of the most undervalued things
in life. And as I say, Norway, where most people
should be super duper grateful all day hard and one
is grateful, so you know you should almost learn in
that school to be grateful. But anyway, on an expedition,
you really feel gratefulness for those three reasons and the
(21:57):
same reasons why humans very grateful one hundred thousand years ago.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
When you walk to the North Pole, when you walk
to climb Everest, when you what is the difference between
walking to it and walking towards home?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Is there a different at It's.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Most accidents are happening on the way down from the mountain,
because then you are more self confident you're happy with yourself,
you kind of reach your goal, at least that's what
you believe. Then suddenly you do take a wrong step
or forget being careful, and then you may have an excellence.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
We've talked about getting there and preparing to leave, but
what about returning and what kind of process is that
to return from being fifty days on your own, eating
porridge with fat, walking and feeling cold, feeling hungry, feeling tired,
coming back to an embracing life of friendship and people.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
And it's especially coming home after having not speaking with
en one for fifty days. It's really strange. And eventually,
after a few weeks, I didn't really miss speaking to
anyone either. I'm a very social person, but I kind
of liked it. I like the rhythm, I like the routee.
(23:25):
I like you know, it's you're getting a part on agu.
It's like your body doesn't stop by your skin or
your thing, your tips, but kind of extended into the
eyes on the horizon, and you have a dialogue with
the nature. You send some ideas out to get all
the thoughts back again without words, and Sunday you're back home.
(23:46):
After a few days, you're washing machine breaks down or
whatever you need, you need to have help. But after
a few weeks you get you know, you get into
the rhythm of daily life in olslow and I like
that too.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
When you're back in that world, do you dream of
the world of walking on your own?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I don't dream about it, but I keep on going
back to nature. I think that's maybe the biggest mistake
humans are doing today, that we are we have separated
over cells from nature, that we think we are above nature,
we don't need nature, we have conquerent nature. And I
think that's one of the sources for many of the
(24:26):
problems we have in the world today, that we don't
relate to nature, not understanding or accepting that we are
part of nature.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
We've talked about being solitary.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
We've talked about going far away from a community, from family,
from friends. We've talked about thinking about them when you're away.
We thought about leaving them. We've talked about coming back.
Can you tell us the effect of your obsession on
people you love or people you want to love, people
(24:58):
you want to be with.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
How is that affected You're exploring?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
It is difficult because when you have this desire, you
leave so many things behind you, your family, your kids,
wives and girlfriends in order and a kind of expression.
All expression that every girl loves an explorer, and the
recent girl loves an explorer is because it's so much fun.
It's so much going on, so much curiosity, so much wonder,
(25:25):
so many things are happening, so many adventures, et cetera.
But eventually the girl that understand that this is not
going to stop. All these men they went out, they
had wives, girlfriends, fiances, kids, and quite often they ever
came home and nobody knew what had happened.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
How many people died? Going to were you under the
few survivors or no?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
It's traditionally until nineteen hundred, let's say, you know, the
numbers are not hard, not easily figure out, but I said,
around one thousand people child and seven hundred and fifty
one died, So it was The North Pole has been
the most difficult place to reach on Earth, and also
(26:12):
where people had sacrificed the most, I would think, and
also the longest period because people tried for four hundred years.
And what's interesting is that no one knows who got
to the pole. The North Pole remains mysterious, and that's
also one of the reasons I want to write the
book from prehistoric times, when people sitting in the northern
(26:34):
Hemisphere looking into the skies ten thousand years ago, one
hundred thousand years ago, everything was going around and routed
all the stars, the Earth was moving in circles. Just
one fixed point in the whole world, and that was
the north star to Polaris. And then people start to wonder,
why is that this one fixed point and what's below
(26:59):
it on Earth? And understood this probably midnight Sun. And
then they started to have this idea that it was
original life was at a north pole. And as late
as eighteen eighty four the dean at Boston University brought
a full book to prove that Adam and Eve and
the Garden of Eden had been at a north pole.
(27:20):
That was a common idea, belief until the eighteen eighties.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
When did you go to Cambridge to study philosophy?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
In nineteen ninety five, I already had a law degree.
But in ninety five, I or ninety four I kind
of felt going on expeditions had become a routine like
any other routine. You get a goal, you get sponsorships,
you do the expedition, you do talks, you do maybe
(27:50):
a writ a book and then another expedition. So I
want to break free from it. And I was also
fed up kind of talking about it. Fortunately they let
me in on Cambridge like a besitting scholar. It was
true privilege to be there and really dig deep into
(28:11):
moral philosophy.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Do you have a philosopher that has had an impact
on you?
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yes, quite a few. It is Spinulza and also this
Norwegian philosopher RNNs who also an expert on Spinulsa. I
knew it, but he kind of also explained to me
that kind of importance in life, that you need physical pain,
you need psychological pain to have a great life. I
(28:38):
think it's important every day to make life more difficult
and the best things in life are difficult to achieve.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
The River Cafe, when you said lunch is now running
from Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking at www. Rivercafe
dot co or give us a call. Can I go
back to one thing, which is about food? When you
were growing up and you've had this obsession in walking,
(29:14):
and did you find food an interesting discovery? I went
to Norway probably in nineteen ninety or very very early
on I think when Rose and I were doing a
TV series and we went to where we flew from
Oslo the north to see where they make the salt
cod because that's you know, salt cod is one of
(29:38):
the great industries because of religion. So people who live
in Brazil or lived far away and had to have
fish Catholics on a Friday. They depended on salt cod
travel and.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
It was the most important thing Norway exported for several
hundred years. So it may kind of the west coast
of Norway, you know, people get really rich. And also
the Northern Park because of the black export.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Has the fishing change.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
With climate, everything kind of changes. Yeah, so it's it's
the further north to get like the northern part of
Norway and small wine. Everything is changes because the temperature
is increasing like around small but three times more than
the rest of the world. Are they still whales there
are whales. Yeah. Fortunately, you know they're protected such a whales.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, they can't fish well meat anymore.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Now you know, they can do it for scientific purposes
and then some you know, yeah, so it's yeah, so
you can still get whale beats.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
I was thinking about when you're training to do the walk.
Do you need to like put on waste? So you
have to eat to put on weight, and because you
must be training to do you have to train to walk,
you get like starving, but have to eat really carefully
or are you're allowed to just go madly.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Like you have to. It's a good question because you
have to gain weight at the same time as exercising
a lot, and then you also have to train your
body to absorb everything you eat. More like so you
need on an expedition, you need to get as many
calories program as possible, and then you need to eat fat.
(31:24):
And if you eat lots of fat, your body won't
absorb it. So what we did is the time before
we left, I had porridge in the morning, lots of
extra fat. Yeah, so I had a bucket with this
fat in my kitchen and I'll add it in every
meal for a long time, for like, you know, a
(31:45):
half year or something, and then again twelve fourteen kilos
and then yeah, fourteen killers.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
See, when you're out in the North Pole, you must
be going how many calories do you need a day there?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
You need probably need maybe ten thousands of day whatever.
But that's too much to eat. So we eat around
six thousand calories a day. But then you all the
fat is just you know, draining off you. So eventually
you get rid of the fat and then also lots
of muscle mass. So it's it's it's not super healthy.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
So when you're training, you're eating, you're bunking up. And
is there any enjoyment in eating when you're trying to
add tablespoons of fat to everything you eat?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
No, you know, and eat a lot of chocolate, et cetera,
and it's it's, of course, as everyone knows, when you
eat chocolate, the first bite is the best and then
you keep on eating. Yeah, but you know, it's it's
a part of the game.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
When I talk to a footballer now, as I did
with someone called Ian Right or Garry then, and they
talk about how the concept of what you eat now
when you're an athlete has changed so much in totally
even thirty years four years, they used to eat a
huge meal before a game. You know, they didn't think
(33:04):
about any idea that food would have an effect on
your performance, whereas now the science of performance and food
is so sophisticated. If someone was going on or you
were going on a trip, would you still have powers
with all that fat change.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I think you know, we in the nineties we kind
of reinvented what you could eat on an expedition. People
said to us, it's not possible to eat so much
calories program as we did, but by training over bodies
to do it, we were able to. And of course
what we were eating are very different from what top
athletes are eating. So I think you know, the way
(33:45):
you know the food we had is still relevant today.
It is. But of course, like in the nineties footballers
in England they were after the games, they were stopping
and buying fish and chips and hamburgers. Favorable after the
game all the players was absolutely ridiculous by today's standard.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And if you were, as I was saying, experience pain,
experience hunger, loneliness, and you think that you do need comfort,
is there a food that you reach for.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
When you are on the expedition and if you're hungry,
just want as much as possible, and you want fat.
So this polar bear was shot. We cooked parts of
it when it got to the pole. Tasted like cold oil,
like an oil to get from cold so that tastes
doesn't taste good Bye. Civilized standards, but we kind of
(34:42):
you just loved it.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
What would be your top meal that you'd be like,
Oh my god, I'd do anything to just eat that
right now.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Lots of meat and fat. Yeah, I loved it as
a kid. And then I think about those happy moments,
and I think that's also why I love a great
pasta today.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Thank you very much, thank you
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with Montclair
You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Arling Caaga is one of the world's great explorers, a
man whose life embraces solitude. He is the first person
to reach by foot the North Pole, South Pole, and
Mount Everest. His new book, The North Pole, The History
of an Obsession, is published this week, a compelling read,
taking us into his world of adventure, hidden dreams, adversity
(00:28):
and silence. Arling in My life might be dissimilar, but
we share a love for the unknown. For him, it
might be a new horizon for me, a discovery of
a little known Sicilian recipe. To day, we're here on
our own adventure, not on the top of a mountain
or in the icy North Pole, but safe and warm
(00:48):
in the river.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Cafe ha so Everest, South Pole, The North Pole.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Can you remember the times when you actually thought you
might die?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I never felt I might die, But if my mother
had seen me, she would certainly believe I was close
to dying quite a few times when you fall into
the water. But also, like we were attacked by a
polar bear.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Stop there, tell us. Many people start a sence like that,
what happened? Story?
Speaker 4 (01:19):
We were close to the north pole. Suddenly heard my
partner but shouted hoy, which I never heard him showed before.
So I looked up and then saw polar bear at
twenty meters distance. How big was the bear probably if
you got after maybe two hundred and fifty kilos and
this far north, as we said as a joke afterwards,
(01:43):
is nothing to eat but polar explorers. So we knew
we knew it was going to charge. But when the
polar bears saw that we had seen seen it, it
stopped and we were able to dig into over sledges
and get a handgun each among forty four each. So
(02:04):
I got the gun and it was this short barrel
because we want to say, wait, so only two inches barrel,
so you can't hit the bear at twenty meters distance.
You had to wait until this close. But then my
partner berg, Yeah, he had this idea that he really
wanted to be published in National Geographic Magazine, which was
(02:26):
the biggest thing at the time. This was over Bible.
We kind of read like every Thursday.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I was an American who received it. Do you get
it every month?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Actually get that yellow exactly every third is or something
that had something on an expedition, which we always read
like it was like the New Testament. So he got
this idea, this is my chance. So he dropped the gun,
got the camera. He didn't have a film camera. This
was the time he had a film camera. And then
he got me posing between him and the bear. So
(02:56):
it took some photos and soon after the bear turned
towards us start to dig its four feet into the snow,
lowered its neck, so you knew of those gone to
charge and it can run up to sixty kilimelan over,
so it's so it's and it's twenty meters, so it's
it's let's say it was forty k over, so it's
(03:18):
really close up. Were both hired and hit it in
the chest, so it's and it's like, you know, neither
of us are you know, any desire to kill an animal,
and definitely not a polar bear. But when it's a
matter about who's having who for dinner, the choice for
simple even Gandey said you should kill an animal, want
(03:38):
to kill you.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
We're here with Sean Renowan, who is director of The
River Cafe, the executive chef of the River Cafe, a
great friend of mine and has also wanted to talk
to you when I told you you were coming about food.
What we do as chefs, what you do is and
explore what is the food? If I was coming Sean
and I were coming to Norway and you were cooking
(04:02):
something to represent your kind of history in your life,
what would you give us?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
I would in terms of meat, I would give you
sever reindeer, a low reindeer. And what reasonal low reindeer
is because reindeer lives a happy life from born until
its suddenly is dead, which I find very comfortable that
that the animal hasn't suffered because of meat. So and
also it's super tasty.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Is it like venison? Is it sweet?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
No, it's it's I think it's richer in taste, of
course depends on what part of the of the reindeer,
and it's tasted a little bit wilderness. It tastes like,
you know, a little bit like being above the tree line,
you know, well cooked or you know, it's it's really
outstanding meal. And of course in Norway we have so
(04:52):
much seafood. Now it's cold season and I had some
cold a few days ago and it's just believe amazing.
And it's if you have a good piece which I
will get is almost ful proof.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
How do you cook it?
Speaker 4 (05:07):
The most important thing with cod is that which people
kind of forget or do not do not know, is
that you need to first of all, of course, get
a great piece, but then you need to salt it
heavily and leave it for at least twenty minutes, and
then rinse it with cold water because that makes the
(05:29):
fabric of the meat you call the meat and fabric
or the much more like almost like lobster meat, so
it doesn't fall apart in a way, like you know,
and also the tastes get a little bit richer. And
then afterwards you salt it and pepper it, and I
usually then put it in the oven on maybe two
(05:49):
and twenty degrees for twenty five minutes, maybe a plus
minus depending on the size of the piece, with some herbs,
and maybe I make some mash the root vegetables, but
definitely have a great salad and some good wine.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Okay, let's go.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I love having people visiting and make food, because that's
one of the great pressures you can have is to
share great food that you're really pretty heart into and
some good wines.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, what was it like? Growing up in Oslo. Will
you talk to your family what was food like in
your house?
Speaker 4 (06:30):
You know, I grew up in Olslow in the born
in sixty three and in the typical middle class family,
and middle class family at that time in Norway was
very different from middle class families today because post oil
fortune and mid class in Norways is different. So we
had like typical was you start the week Mondays Tuesdays
(06:51):
with something called fish balls like and then whale steaks whale.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Really, let's take this slowly, fish.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Like you made this kind of instead of meat balls
like fish balls like very popular Norway. Kind of simple,
not super healthy. I'm totally okay food. And at that
time fish is quite often cold, and whale was very
popular Norway.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
In the six.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
You know, if you have the best part of the whale,
it's delicious, but whale is huge, and of course we
had we didn't have the best part. And then it's
quite rough, raw, rough taste a little bit like seal.
But that maybe doesn't say it's so much either.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I've never been to the fish well steal.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, it's rough, but that's you know, it's a common
course in Norway at the time. And then and the
rest of the week. You know, it's the quality increased.
And then typically on Saturdays we had stimps or a
good piece of meat, and the same on Sundays and
always pudding.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
What would you have pudding?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
You know, this kind of chocolate thing or like the
strawberry thing, kind of quite simple but still cutting.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Everything that's important to your family.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yes, and it became more and more important. My father
was a jazz critic, and not to have something extra
to do, he became a restaurant critic, so he took
me to the restaurant quite often when he meta critics.
So yeah, it became more and more important.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And did you play a lot of jazz.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Just all the time. My father said that pop music,
TV and cars are diseases in society and we should
only listen to jazz, blues and gospel music because it
was a just critic. We've got to we've got to
meet all this, you know, just musicians. He left his jail.
(08:50):
They all came to Norway, like you know, because in
Norway's they were superstars, you know. They came to our
house and every alcohol was very expensive and away at
the time, so we my father's sailed over sailed boat
to Germany every summer, and we bought dicker and took
it back home to Norway, and then we had a
big parties in the house. People got drunk and they
(09:12):
were playing and jamming into the night. I don't unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
And what about school? Tell me about going to school
every day?
Speaker 4 (09:22):
School was not good to me.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
You were dyslexic. Yeah, my husband is dyslexic, exactly, but
in those days they didn't actually well in his days
he was older than you.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
They just called it being stupid exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
I think, you know, it's the good thing having those
disadvantages is that you learn all of the teacher tries
to help you. You learn not to trust authorities. I
had to find my own way to learn the same
as everyone else in class, so the teacher really couldn't
help me. And also you learn that life is brutal
(09:59):
at the early age. And I think you know, the
sooner you learn it, the better it this in your life.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You have children.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
I have three daughters.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
You want them to know that life is brutal.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Actually, actually I want them to know life is brutal.
And they know life is brutal, but of course they
have to learn it their own way.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
When did you first become in love with a pole?
Speaker 4 (10:24):
With the first time I became aware of the North Pole,
I was seven years old. My parents gave me this globe,
this globeust for my birthday present, and this was in
nineteen seventy. So at that time, the globes were small,
a bit bluish, dark blue where the oceans were deep,
it was dark brown where the mountains were high. And
(10:47):
at the top of the globe it was a little
flat metal plate to kind of hold the globe together.
And then I was wondering what's below that metal and
of course that was a North Pole. And then, as
you know, then I was wondering about it, and then
slowly through my life I got more and more interested
(11:07):
and eventually obsessed about walking to the North Pole. So
I was in love with the North Pole for many years.
And of course, as soon as I got to the pole,
I understood my real obsession had been about walking towards
the poll and not getting to the pole. The arrival
is like you know, it's the hunt is always more
(11:29):
fascinating than actually the killing.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Tell us the early days of walking.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I remember the first time I understood that I could
walk in any direction I wanted. I walked home from
kindergarten norway safe you walked back and forth to the
kindergarten by yourself, And I was walking towards over home.
Then suddenly understood I could just turn ninety degrees and
walk straight into the forest. That was a beautiful feeling.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
And then.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
And then I was dreaming, and I was dreaming about
sailing the oceans, which I eventually did through my twenties.
And then this idea about, like you know, really fulfilling
my dream about walking to the North Pole kept on
popping up in my head, and eventually, in nineteen ninety
(12:23):
Berga Aslan and myself we did it, and they prepared for.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
More than ski.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
He was a guy I had never met before. He
had the same dream, obsessed by getting to the North Pole,
and obsessed by getting to the North Pole in the
most difficult way, not using ski doos or dogs or
air supply, but just walking, dragging over sledges all the
way to the North Pole. The first thurday nights we
(12:53):
shared sleeping bag. And then eventually, like you know, off
doing such an expedition, he either become friends or the opposite. Unfortunately,
we became very close friends.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
You had a great question. Oh no, I was.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
We were just asking how you know when you get
to the North Pole, is it like a sign.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Welcome to Because when you get to the pole, the ice,
you're standing in the ice. The ice is moving all
the time, so after a few hours you're a little
bit off the North Pole, depending on the drift. But
the thing at the North Pole which is interesting is
that the sun has the same angle above the horizon
for twenty four hours, so the needly goes up and down,
(13:37):
and then of course and of course the compass needle
is pointing to ourselves. The wind comes from the south,
it blowing towards the south. It's one day and one
night every year. The sun rises once and it sets
once during a year, so it's but then again it's
it's just ice. It's just a mathematical point there.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
You have to lose yourself to get the place.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
That's the interesting thing, because when they get to the
northfoll it's not there. There, it's nothing. It's just ice,
gray white, and maybe the horizon is blue. That's it,
and it's moving. It's it's it's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Perhaps we should actually talk about you and iron chine.
We're going to the north pole.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Were going.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
Okay, we can slow, you can slaughter halfway and.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
The north So we're there, and I would like to
know what is my food daylight? What will I be eating?
What's the longest time you've gone on a trip? Would
it be for a month? Would it be seas too much?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Like sixty six to five days?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Sixty five?
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Bring all the food you need, we do the whole time.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Okay, So what are the disciplines around that? How much
it will wait to carry, how much space it will take,
and how much nutrition will it give you?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yes? Balance it's you eat around one kilow every day
with dried food and they mix it with water. It's
all dry old dryeder say weight because what is it
for breakfast? You have a o oat meal?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
You have to use a lot of water.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Then, Yeah, from melting ice and snow. Oh so you
don't bring in the water. So that's a good noise,
that's a goodness. So don't worry about that.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Take any you just take the snow and just let it.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah, you need to find all old ice because fresh
fresh ice contains lots of salt. So you can tell
by the color of the eyes if it contains salt
or not. And then how do you melt it? You
melt it by having little primasies that what they call
it little heater, which is made in a way so
all the heat from the flame goes to the pot.
(15:56):
So even when it's minus fourteen fifty degrees, we're not
heating the tent. It gets a little bit warmer because
of the body heat, but it's we don't heat the tent.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Why don't you want to eat?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Because you want to say weight. So you have like
two des liters of fuel per day, and then you
have to really save everything because you've got the drag
everything you need for more than two months. And then
you're not having enough fuel to heat the tent, so
you're freezing so much to actually you know you sometimes
you start crying because you're freezing so much. But anyway,
(16:33):
so this this old milk, but also we mix it
with formula milk, dried formula milk, because that's what gives
the most energy. Program and then eat the same for
larnch throughout the day. Maybe some chocolate or definitely some chocolate,
but with extra calories, especially made chocolate. The extra calories
just as ack like a snack having brakes and maybe chocolate,
(16:56):
like you have to get used to the taste, I
really because it's so much fat in it, so it
doesn't really taste well at home. But you know, the
thing is this food is none of this food tastes
really good when you start eating it. But then as
it days and weeks pass by and you get more
and more tired and more and more hungry, it tastes
(17:18):
better and better and better, and eventually it tastes as
good as a food that we recoffee. Absolutely, that's the
whole thing that expeditions. You need to be really well prepared.
It's like this Nowigian explorer Amundson road that victory awaits
the one who has everything in order. People calls it
(17:41):
good luck, while defeat always follows bad preparations, people calls
it bad luck. It's brutal and true. Are you hungry
all these hungry? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Always?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
So we are still meeting twice a year, but me
and we're eating the food we're dreaming about while walking
towards the pol Oh that's nice.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So then that's all the through the day, and.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Then then we have dinner, which is dried meat and
either some pasta or some mushed potatoes to get some volume.
And again lots of fat. And that's when.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
You say lots of fats. What would that be like?
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Quite a few spoonfuls every evening. And then because we're starving,
one had to split the portions and the other one
had to choose. So then you make sure that we
get you know, equal portions.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
I have to take like implements to cook like a
regular billy can or would you take special lightweight kit
that you can use to cook and.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Supert Everything is light, Everything is light. That's the thing
you need to keep everything of. The slogan is think
had travel light and leave the fairs behind.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
You your fears.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yeah, that's sort kind of recipe for getting to the
North Pole.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for the
River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our subscription
is available for six or twelve months, with each oil
chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with each delivery.
It's a perfect way to bring some River Cafe flavor
into your home or to show someone you really care
(19:36):
for them with the gift. Visit our website shop the
Rivercafe dot co uk to place your order.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Now, I was.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Going to ask you if you ever on a trip
were aware that it might be your birthday, it might
be Christmas, it might be a Norwegian holiday.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Do you celebrate in any way?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yes. When I walked to the South Paul alone, I
had Christmas and New Year's by myself. I was alone
for fifty days and nights.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And fifty were alone for fifty days and.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
No radio and no telephone contact, so in total solitude.
So then I was still remembering Christmas Eve, which is
a big day in Norway. I ate a little bit extra,
had a piece of cake with me. When you're alone
for such a long time, you kind of stop thinking
in the sense that the past and the future don't
(20:36):
matter so much. And of course that's a kind of
a noise too, because thinking and think about the past
or the future, but very much in the present. You
kind of stop thinking, which is a beautiful feeling. But
then on Christmas Eve, I sat there eating this cake,
I felt like, at least like, you know, then I
was thinking about people back home and that they were
(20:56):
thinking about me. Because also when you're alone for such
a long time you don't really believe people, then you
kind of you kind of get a feeling that you're
also kind of forgotten.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And was ther pleasure that you had when you were okay?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
The pleasure is I think the pleasures on an expedition
are there original sources to gratefulness in the sense that
you get rest when you're tired, you get warm after
having been cold, you get full after having been hungry,
and that kind of that's what gratefulness is about. And
(21:35):
I think gratefulness is one of the most undervalued things
in life. And as I say, Norway, where most people
should be super duper grateful all day hard and one
is grateful, so you know you should almost learn in
that school to be grateful. But anyway, on an expedition,
you really feel gratefulness for those three reasons and the
(21:57):
same reasons why humans very grateful one hundred thousand years ago.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
When you walk to the North Pole, when you walk
to climb Everest, when you what is the difference between
walking to it and walking towards home?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Is there a different at It's.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Most accidents are happening on the way down from the mountain,
because then you are more self confident you're happy with yourself,
you kind of reach your goal, at least that's what
you believe. Then suddenly you do take a wrong step
or forget being careful, and then you may have an excellence.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
We've talked about getting there and preparing to leave, but
what about returning and what kind of process is that
to return from being fifty days on your own, eating
porridge with fat, walking and feeling cold, feeling hungry, feeling tired,
coming back to an embracing life of friendship and people.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
And it's especially coming home after having not speaking with
en one for fifty days. It's really strange. And eventually,
after a few weeks, I didn't really miss speaking to
anyone either. I'm a very social person, but I kind
of liked it. I like the rhythm, I like the routee.
(23:25):
I like you know, it's you're getting a part on agu.
It's like your body doesn't stop by your skin or
your thing, your tips, but kind of extended into the
eyes on the horizon, and you have a dialogue with
the nature. You send some ideas out to get all
the thoughts back again without words, and Sunday you're back home.
(23:46):
After a few days, you're washing machine breaks down or
whatever you need, you need to have help. But after
a few weeks you get you know, you get into
the rhythm of daily life in olslow and I like
that too.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
When you're back in that world, do you dream of
the world of walking on your own?
Speaker 4 (24:05):
I don't dream about it, but I keep on going
back to nature. I think that's maybe the biggest mistake
humans are doing today, that we are we have separated
over cells from nature, that we think we are above nature,
we don't need nature, we have conquerent nature. And I
think that's one of the sources for many of the
(24:26):
problems we have in the world today, that we don't
relate to nature, not understanding or accepting that we are
part of nature.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
We've talked about being solitary.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
We've talked about going far away from a community, from family,
from friends. We've talked about thinking about them when you're away.
We thought about leaving them. We've talked about coming back.
Can you tell us the effect of your obsession on
people you love or people you want to love, people
(24:58):
you want to be with.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
How is that affected You're exploring?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
It is difficult because when you have this desire, you
leave so many things behind you, your family, your kids,
wives and girlfriends in order and a kind of expression.
All expression that every girl loves an explorer, and the
recent girl loves an explorer is because it's so much fun.
It's so much going on, so much curiosity, so much wonder,
(25:25):
so many things are happening, so many adventures, et cetera.
But eventually the girl that understand that this is not
going to stop. All these men they went out, they
had wives, girlfriends, fiances, kids, and quite often they ever
came home and nobody knew what had happened.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
How many people died? Going to were you under the
few survivors or no?
Speaker 4 (25:50):
It's traditionally until nineteen hundred, let's say, you know, the
numbers are not hard, not easily figure out, but I said,
around one thousand people child and seven hundred and fifty
one died, So it was The North Pole has been
the most difficult place to reach on Earth, and also
(26:12):
where people had sacrificed the most, I would think, and
also the longest period because people tried for four hundred years.
And what's interesting is that no one knows who got
to the pole. The North Pole remains mysterious, and that's
also one of the reasons I want to write the
book from prehistoric times, when people sitting in the northern
(26:34):
Hemisphere looking into the skies ten thousand years ago, one
hundred thousand years ago, everything was going around and routed
all the stars, the Earth was moving in circles. Just
one fixed point in the whole world, and that was
the north star to Polaris. And then people start to wonder,
why is that this one fixed point and what's below
(26:59):
it on Earth? And understood this probably midnight Sun. And
then they started to have this idea that it was
original life was at a north pole. And as late
as eighteen eighty four the dean at Boston University brought
a full book to prove that Adam and Eve and
the Garden of Eden had been at a north pole.
(27:20):
That was a common idea, belief until the eighteen eighties.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
When did you go to Cambridge to study philosophy?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
In nineteen ninety five, I already had a law degree.
But in ninety five, I or ninety four I kind
of felt going on expeditions had become a routine like
any other routine. You get a goal, you get sponsorships,
you do the expedition, you do talks, you do maybe
(27:50):
a writ a book and then another expedition. So I
want to break free from it. And I was also
fed up kind of talking about it. Fortunately they let
me in on Cambridge like a besitting scholar. It was
true privilege to be there and really dig deep into
(28:11):
moral philosophy.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Do you have a philosopher that has had an impact
on you?
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yes, quite a few. It is Spinulza and also this
Norwegian philosopher RNNs who also an expert on Spinulsa. I
knew it, but he kind of also explained to me
that kind of importance in life, that you need physical pain,
you need psychological pain to have a great life. I
(28:38):
think it's important every day to make life more difficult
and the best things in life are difficult to achieve.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
The River Cafe, when you said lunch is now running
from Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking at www. Rivercafe
dot co or give us a call. Can I go
back to one thing, which is about food? When you
were growing up and you've had this obsession in walking,
(29:14):
and did you find food an interesting discovery? I went
to Norway probably in nineteen ninety or very very early
on I think when Rose and I were doing a
TV series and we went to where we flew from
Oslo the north to see where they make the salt
cod because that's you know, salt cod is one of
(29:38):
the great industries because of religion. So people who live
in Brazil or lived far away and had to have
fish Catholics on a Friday. They depended on salt cod
travel and.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
It was the most important thing Norway exported for several
hundred years. So it may kind of the west coast
of Norway, you know, people get really rich. And also
the Northern Park because of the black export.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Has the fishing change.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
With climate, everything kind of changes. Yeah, so it's it's
the further north to get like the northern part of
Norway and small wine. Everything is changes because the temperature
is increasing like around small but three times more than
the rest of the world. Are they still whales there
are whales. Yeah. Fortunately, you know they're protected such a whales.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, they can't fish well meat anymore.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Now you know, they can do it for scientific purposes
and then some you know, yeah, so it's yeah, so
you can still get whale beats.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
I was thinking about when you're training to do the walk.
Do you need to like put on waste? So you
have to eat to put on weight, and because you
must be training to do you have to train to walk,
you get like starving, but have to eat really carefully
or are you're allowed to just go madly.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Like you have to. It's a good question because you
have to gain weight at the same time as exercising
a lot, and then you also have to train your
body to absorb everything you eat. More like so you
need on an expedition, you need to get as many
calories program as possible, and then you need to eat fat.
(31:24):
And if you eat lots of fat, your body won't
absorb it. So what we did is the time before
we left, I had porridge in the morning, lots of
extra fat. Yeah, so I had a bucket with this
fat in my kitchen and I'll add it in every
meal for a long time, for like, you know, a
(31:45):
half year or something, and then again twelve fourteen kilos
and then yeah, fourteen killers.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
See, when you're out in the North Pole, you must
be going how many calories do you need a day there?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
You need probably need maybe ten thousands of day whatever.
But that's too much to eat. So we eat around
six thousand calories a day. But then you all the
fat is just you know, draining off you. So eventually
you get rid of the fat and then also lots
of muscle mass. So it's it's it's not super healthy.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
So when you're training, you're eating, you're bunking up. And
is there any enjoyment in eating when you're trying to
add tablespoons of fat to everything you eat?
Speaker 4 (32:29):
No, you know, and eat a lot of chocolate, et cetera,
and it's it's, of course, as everyone knows, when you
eat chocolate, the first bite is the best and then
you keep on eating. Yeah, but you know, it's it's
a part of the game.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
When I talk to a footballer now, as I did
with someone called Ian Right or Garry then, and they
talk about how the concept of what you eat now
when you're an athlete has changed so much in totally
even thirty years four years, they used to eat a
huge meal before a game. You know, they didn't think
(33:04):
about any idea that food would have an effect on
your performance, whereas now the science of performance and food
is so sophisticated. If someone was going on or you
were going on a trip, would you still have powers
with all that fat change.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I think you know, we in the nineties we kind
of reinvented what you could eat on an expedition. People
said to us, it's not possible to eat so much
calories program as we did, but by training over bodies
to do it, we were able to. And of course
what we were eating are very different from what top
athletes are eating. So I think you know, the way
(33:45):
you know the food we had is still relevant today.
It is. But of course, like in the nineties footballers
in England they were after the games, they were stopping
and buying fish and chips and hamburgers. Favorable after the
game all the players was absolutely ridiculous by today's standard.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And if you were, as I was saying, experience pain,
experience hunger, loneliness, and you think that you do need comfort,
is there a food that you reach for.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
When you are on the expedition and if you're hungry,
just want as much as possible, and you want fat.
So this polar bear was shot. We cooked parts of
it when it got to the pole. Tasted like cold oil,
like an oil to get from cold so that tastes
doesn't taste good Bye. Civilized standards, but we kind of
(34:42):
you just loved it.
Speaker 5 (34:44):
What would be your top meal that you'd be like,
Oh my god, I'd do anything to just eat that
right now.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Lots of meat and fat. Yeah, I loved it as
a kid. And then I think about those happy moments,
and I think that's also why I love a great
pasta today.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Thank you very much, thank you
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with Montclair
Host
Ruth Rogers
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