July 15, 2024 • 32 mins
When I’m asked why I love Mexico, the answer is the culture, cities, food, the seas, the mountains, and the history. But what I really love most are the people, and Frida Escobedo is one of those people.
A prominent architect in today’s world, Frida is reimagining the contemporary and modern galleries at New York’s Metropolitan Museum of Art, the first woman architect ever to be appointed to do so. From reinventing the world-renowned Centre Pompidou in Paris to designing the Serpentine Gallery’s annual Summer Pavilion, Frida’s unique vision now influences many of the most iconic architectural landmarks of our time.
Today, in The River Cafe, we’re making deep-fried zucchini flowers—their stunning colours remind me of our beautiful Mexico, and when she’s not with me, they remind me Frida.
Ruthie’s Table 4 is made in partnership with Moncler.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Was not con god most fancier.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
When I'm asked why I love Mexico and why we
return every year for nearly thirty years, the answer is
the culture, cities, food, the seas, the mountains, the history.
But what I really love most are the people. And
Frida Escobedo is one of those people. We met in
(00:42):
twenty eighteen. She had just won the international competition to
design the Serpentine Gallery's annual summer pavilion. Richard was on
the jury. Her building brought the refined spirit of Mexico
to Hyde Park. Richard and I gave a fabulous party
celebrating this bright and beautiful young architect not long after
(01:04):
living in Mexico for four months. In a difficult time,
Frieda made the impossible possible with her care and concern
for us both. In the years since, Frida has become
one of the world's great architects. Along with other projects,
she's reimagining the contemporary and modern galleries at New York's
(01:24):
Metropolitan Museum of Art, the first woman architect to be appointed.
Today in the River Cafe, we're making deep Fried zucchini flowers.
Their stunning colors remind me of our beautiful Mexico, and
when she's not with me, the zucchini flowers remind me
of frieda.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Really, it's so nice to be with you again.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Nice to have you here. We have lots to talk
about it. But the first thing, why don't we read
the recipe? So people listening to you can learn how
to make zucchini flowers.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Okay, deep fried zucchini flowers. So for six people. Recipe
quantity of batter twenty four zucchini flowers, seven hundred and
fifty million liters, some flower oil and sea salt, and
the recipes. Make the batter and let it rest for
thirty minutes. And to prepare the flowers, remove the stamens
(02:16):
from the center and the green sepals from.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
The base of each flower. Keep the stalks attached.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Heat the oil until hot about one hundred and eighty
centigrees in a deep pan, and dip the flowers, holding
them by the stalks, into the batter. Top off any
excess batter on the side of the bowl, and place
them one at a time into the hot oil. Turn
the flowers over in the oil as they become golden.
Remove the flowers when crisp and drain on the kitchen paper,
(02:44):
Scatter with sea salt, and eat immediately.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Do you like them? I love them and I had
Would you if you ever cooked them? Would you ever
have a recipe? And here they are, there's the zucchini flowers.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
An Archie has just brought them in the chef at
the River Cafe. Would you like to talk about the
zucchini flowers that you just made?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yes? So these are zucchini flowers.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
They're part of the Fritto Misto dish today, so they're
being served alongside scallops, cuttlefish, zucchini batons, and sage and lemon.
These are I think so special because something you can
only get the summer, and to each one zucchini, it's
one flower, so you have to take real care when
you're prepping them to keep the shape when you're cooking
(03:28):
them as well.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Ours are quite delicate.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
When you make the batter as light as this, I
like to always be able to see the zucchini through it.
We always have them in Tuscany when we're there in
the summer, and one of the things I really like
about them is everybody can make them.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
Once they're picked away from the zucchini itself. They don't
last very long, so they're always going to be really,
really fresh.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
And is there a Mexican version.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Yes, actually it's one of my favorite foods in Mexico,
and we have them in casari, yes, that's right, or
you can have them with eggs or in soups. And
what I like it is that it's also very fragile,
so I only have them for a day, so you
have to be like eating them right away, and the
calories are pretty yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Good, thank you, pleasure enjoy.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So let's talk about your early days. Tell me more
about your family.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
I have two sisters, and I grew up in Mexico City.
I was living there for my first five years, and
then the earthquake happened and my parents got divorced at
the same time, so there were two earthquakes in my life.
And then they moved to very close neighborhoods to each
other so they could still see me all the time,
(04:41):
both of them.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And both your parents were your father was my dad
is a doctor. There is a doctor, yes, and.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Your mother, my mom is a sociologist.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So tell me.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
About food in your household, would you sit down to
dinner altogether? Did you have a cook? Tell me about
what life was like food wise in their house.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
We did have a cook and someone who was helping
in the house all of the time. But my dad
was also very much into cooking, and he makes like
these simple but really delicious recipes, especially.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Good with Mexican food.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
He's great with soups and stews.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
So it's a kind of a lighter version of molet.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
It's more like a soup and it has vegetables and
meat in its.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Likely describe is to people who don't know.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Molay is this very intricate, very elaborate paste that is
made out of chilis, spices, chocolate, banana, and it changes
with every family and the type of region that you
have it in Mexico, so it can be a darker chocolate,
or it can be made out of squash seeds, so
(05:53):
it can be green or yellow depending on the nuts
or the spices that you use.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
So it's sort of like a verst and of courie.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And then you always have mode in the French.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Yes, I think it's a it's a very typical staple
in Mexican homehouse and yes, And you can make with chicken,
and you can have it with rice, you can have
it with eggs. You can have it with cassadillas or
infri coladas, which is basically just tortilla with beans inside.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Would your father cooked during the week it would it
be something special he would do.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
It would be mostly on the weekends, but he would
also like to make breakfast.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Or dinner sometimes. And one of my.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Favorite dishes from him is to rikas what's which is
like the leftover bread that you have from.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
The week that is a little bit hard.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
You would put it on an egg butter with vanilla
and cinnamon, a French.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Tas French toast.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I think it's like a Spanish version of that. And
then instead of using powdered sugar, you would use this
raw sugar that comes in like this cone.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
We call it biloon cio.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
I don't know the exact translation in English, but you
will melt the biloonsiu with a little bit of like
lemon juice and the lemon how do you call the
zest the lemon sest? Yes, and then you just create
the syrup.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So on the weekends.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
If cooking was something your father did love to do,
would he engage you and your sisters in the cookaine.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Yes, he would love to have me in the kitchen,
and he would just tell me these recipes actually very
simple ones, most of them coming from my grandmother.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I remember you talked about a pestle and mortar that
you have. Yes, just someone that was from your grandmother
to your father to you tell me about that.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Yes, that was a very special gift I received, and
I had to fight for it a little bit with
my dad because it's like in every Mexican house you
have this volcanic rock mortar. It's called mart and you
make everything in that from salsas to grindening spices or
(08:06):
just like grinding garlic for some other recipes, and it's
passed on from generation to generation. And I think this
is a very old one. It's very smooth on the inside,
and my father had it when my grandmother passed away.
So when I moved into my first apartment, I was
asking my dad to give it to me, and he
(08:28):
would say, like, not yet. And by the time I
returned from my master's degree, I think I was ready
to receive the mokat if you finally gave it to me.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Would your parents take you to restaurants.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yes, not too often.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
It was not as common as nowadays, not where people
eat out all the time. I remember it being like
once a week at most. But what I remember is
my mother used to enjoy a lot having desserts outside. Yes, yes,
And she's really good at making desserts. And so one
of my favorite things was on a rainy day, she
(09:03):
would just tell me, like, would you like to go
get some cake and tea, and we would drive to Polanco,
which was actually very far away from where we lived.
I think she just enjoyed like the time and the
car and just talking to me and being able to
be on one single space.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
What did your mother do?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
She was starting to work at you and women at
the time. And we would go to this place in Polanco,
which is in a little passage one of these like
pedestrian streets inside one of the older buildings, and we
would have tart or cake or some chocolate and tea.
(09:41):
And I thought it was such a treat to have
this in the middle of the week and then just
go back and you know, like it seemed like a
little celebration, And it was a very intimate time between
her and me because it was just like something she
and I would do, like no one else was in
that bubble, so it felt really special.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Sounds like food was important in your home, it was
important to your parents. And then when you went to university,
how did you cope with not having those meals?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Did you go home a lot? Did you eat out
with other students? Did you cook by yourself?
Speaker 5 (10:17):
I have to say that when I was a small child,
I ate everything, like everything that was presented to me
I would eat. But then I had like this short
period as a teenager where I wasn't even like liking
food too much, and I think it was more like
building my personality because it didn't last too long, and
as soon as I moved out of my parents' house,
(10:38):
I needed to start cooking by myself. So at the beginning,
I was like, I don't know how to cook anything,
and it was almost like an a statement, no, like I'm.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Against that, yeah, because of course my dad was.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Good at that, my mom was good at that, and
I was like, I'm not good to be doing this.
But then it was really silly because of course I
enjoyed food so much, so I just started cooking no
with my boyfriend at a time or with friends. They
would come over and we started making like small simple dishes,
and then slowly we became like more elaborate and just
(11:13):
enjoyed having time spending on the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
The River Cafe cafe, steps away from our restaurant, is
now open. In the morning an Italian breakfast with cornetti,
ciambella and crostada from our pastry kitchen. In the afternoon,
ice creamed coups in River Cafe. Classic desserts come in
the evening for cocktails with our resident pianists in the bar.
No need to book see you here.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
We went to the University of Mexico. When you decide
to study.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Architecture, yes, because you didn't go thinking you were going
to be an architecture No.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
I was very decisive as a teenager, and I knew
that I wanted to do something with art or design
something with my hands. But it was just like until
a few days before they closed the exams that I
made up my mind.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
You were no longer in a domestic situation with your family,
and so you lived in an apartment and.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
It was actually until I graduated that I moved to
my own apartment. When you're studying architecture. That's a blessing
because it's like very long hours and other ways you
just don't take care of yourself at all, no, like
it's just like working.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
But then the big change must have been when you
went to Harvard, and so what was that like to
go from Mexico to in food terms, at Cambridge, it.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Was quite a shock because of course, like there was
again this culture of spending very very long hours looking
on your thesis or whatever you were supposed to be
doing at the time. Because I had a very generous
scholarship to have a small apartment for myself, I didn't
have to share, which was a blessing for me because
I could really.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Manage my time.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
And I had a small kitchen and a group of
friends who liked to cook, and we would have the mescal,
which is a mescale Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Okay, and Tuesday at night or.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Tuesday at night Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
And we were supposed to cook for each other, So
we would go around each other houses and we would
bring ingredients sometimes from our trips to Mexico, and we
would either you know, like small old tortillas or mallet,
or we would be doing like the small dishes and
then we wouldn't invite all the friends that were not
Mexican also, and that kind of started a nice tradition
(13:51):
of being able to think of yourself and what you needed,
how to bring people that were close to you as
a support system, because it's really heavy when you're starting,
like you spend all of this time and there's a
lot of pressure. It's very competitive, so it's a good
reminder that you also have a support system and people
that are just there to be with you and that
(14:15):
become friends for a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Did you go to restaurants? So when you were in Boston,
did you go out?
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Sometimes we usually did, like Chinese or the less expensive
versions of feeding out. It was also nice to try
new things and that was actually one of the few
ways which you could start getting to know Boston and
not just Cambridge. Otherwise you just stay on campus and
you basically never leave school. So for me, it was
(14:41):
like a little window to what the city of Boston
was not like hutting oysters were a lobster.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
That was a treat, very big portions. Did you ever
go to Mexican restaurant when you were in Boston? I
tried once and it was so that was such a
revelation for us when we went to Mexico that you.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Realized that the food that you had.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I didn't even go near it in Europe, but even
in the United States we thought it was heavy. You
get these big plates of six different different ingredients, different
ways of cooking them, and it just was so heavy.
And then we went to Mexico and as I said,
it was a revelation. It was a piece of beautiful
(15:24):
fish with as you described as salsa made of tomato
and onion and garlic and could use quite a lot
of chilantro. Yeah, and we haven't talked about guacamole, and
that it was so it was so delicate, and we
find and I wonder why well Mexican food didn't travel well,
(15:45):
you know, and whether it became a simple I think
now it's better. There are more really good restaurants in
New York, and there's a great restaurant here in London
doing Mexican food, and again the focus on ingredients, you know,
but it is it is a very different, different version
of what you the Mexican do you think it is?
Speaker 5 (16:07):
And also because Mexican food is so different from bridging
to region, then it's hard to tell, like what is
Mexican food.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
No, overall, you have the food from the coast, which is.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
Like these grilled fish and just oysters, but also shrimp,
and it's very simple, very few ingredients, very simple recipes.
And then you have the more elaborate we see No
Puebla and elba Hillo with these moorless and salsa that
are almost by roque and it's it's making.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
And then Yukata, when you have like the pooled pork.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Is there a region that you particularly like.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
I love Yukata.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
I think it's just like so tasty and it feels
like a comfort food. Sopa the lima, which is like
the chicken broth with lima, which is like these sweet lime.
I just feel like that is like food for the soul.
Every time you have like a something bad happened to you,
you go and have soap by the lima and it
makes better everything.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
And you started very quickly, didn't you with your own office.
You didn't work for anyone else. No, I've never worked
for anyone. I have no idea how a restaurant runs,
because I've only done it our way.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Did you ever bring food into your work life?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Yes, sometimes we would go to my place and we
would do like these cooking parties and we would cook together.
But it was when we were like just five or four.
Now it's a little bit more difficult, but it's a
nice tradition. I think it brings the team together and
then you really see the personalities and actually you see
how they collaborate also in the studio.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Okay, So as an architect, when you're designing, do you
think about public space and food where people will eat,
what they'll look at while they're eating, Will they have
a view? Will they kitchen be visible? Have you ever
designed a restaurant?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Yes, I am, I am right now?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Are you whereas it?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
It's going to be in the US, and it's going
to be for a dear friend. I'm very happy working
with her.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Tell us about her.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
She has like a very strong personality. She's very charming
and she just like walks into the room and everyone turns.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Around because she's there.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
And I think she has a very magnetic personality. In
her restaurant is Contra March Well one of them. She
has many, but that's probably the most famous one, and
I think it has become like.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
This icon in Mexico City.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Everyone knows Contra Maage and part of the success is
not just the food, which is amazing, but also how
it becomes.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
It became.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Like a gathering space. It's an epicenter for culture and
people watching, and everyone wants to go there to CMB scene.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
We had this routine in Mexico when Richard was in
the hospital. I would have kind of breakfast with my
friend family. They were always late, you know. I'd love
the Mexican breakfast at about ten maybe in the morning,
ten thirty and then a really delicious breakfast at Nido
at Karen, and then I would go to the hospital
(19:14):
and then we would meet at about four in the afternoon,
very often at Contramar, because everybody came to visit me
wanted to go to Contomar, and I loved going. It's
a very dramatic space, dramatic and democratic as well. You know,
it just feels like you're all in there's no good table,
You're all in one big space. You see the kitchen,
and then you would have a very late lunch and
(19:37):
then I'd go back to the hospital and then a
piece of fruit or something very simple for dinner. There
was no that was it, and I just thought it
was a great way of eating, you know, to have
that you know, not big heavy dinner before you go
to bed.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
And you're right like the a theist democratic space.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
It's just like a field condition of tables and I
think I've only seen or like that at Contra Mart,
but also at the Met Cafe, the staff cafet. It
was a big surprise, and I love that because it's
like the canteen for all the employees and everyone goes
(20:15):
to have lunch there and it's really special.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
And the director, yes, yes, curators.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
The curators, the people from maintenance, we that we we
spent a year at the Met with our offices there,
so we would go down and have lunch there and
you would see these mix of people. Some of them
would bring their own foods, some people would buy food there,
and it was just like a place where you can
encounter everyone and actually like really interesting conversations happened there.
(20:42):
So it was a working launch, but in a very
informal setting, which I feel.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Like it's very unusual for Americans.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
You know, like usually they're very hard working and they're
like very pragmatic, So having these moments of just like
casual conversations about work were really special and SPONTANEU.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
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Speaker 2 (21:22):
Thank you. How do you find New York for food?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
It's amazing.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
I like that It's so diverse and you can have
food from every country really authentic, so you can have
great Mexican, great Indian food, Chinese, Japanese everything.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Are you there much? Are you in New York question?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I'm there every month.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And are you're talking there or do not have time
to cook?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
No? I also cook like I find like that's my
way of relaxing. And I come back from work because
lunch is so short in America. Then I'm able to
come back home and then just do something simple and
I feel like I'm taking care of myself again. And
I live in Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah. Nice. So there's good markets there?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yes, yes, yeah, my son used to live in Chelsea
and we use the Chelsea Market and then the wonderful
one is the Union Square exactly.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
That's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Isn't a great market? It is love that.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I thought it was very beautiful what you said about
a book that I also loved and also a writer
that I admire, Joe Didion's Blue, Blue, Blue Lights, Blue Nights.
And you said, there's a quote from you saying that
about it's a book about loss, but also being a woman,
(22:48):
being a mother or not being able to be a mother,
about aging and all things that fascinate and terrify me
at the moment. And it's a book about utter acceptance.
And then you talk about your sister's books, and so
do you think we could just talk for a moment
about women and writing and women and architecture.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
A few months later, after I finished reading for the
second time Blue Knights, my sister finished her first book
and it's a series of poems and it's talking about
the female body and the female body rhythm, and it
has to do with all of the things that happen,
know in cycles, And I think it's really special because
(23:27):
of course, as women, we know that we're always changing,
but they're like these constant flows, so we go back
and forth and we understand each other in such rhythms.
But some of these rhythms, I think are longer and
for me to see someone who's younger than me explaining
all of these processes, not like the idea of becoming
(23:48):
a woman, of becoming of fertile age, or becoming a
woman in menopause or aging, and the whole idea of
how people experience manhood from outside but also from the
inside became really like an important revelation. No for someone
that I saw from being a baby to now expressing
(24:11):
all of these very powerful ideas became almost liberating because
I couldn't explain them to myself so well as she
did with her poetry.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
You know, we're so excited that you're doing the Metropolitan Museum.
It meant a lot, I think, as as both a
confidence of the established museum to commission this to a
relatively young woman. First of all, how do you see it?
And also what are the challenges that you face in
(24:42):
that Well.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
It's an incredible opportunity, of course, and I think it's
almost a reminder that everything big that has happened in
my career felt a little bit like that now. I
remember the first time that I did a public commission.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I couldn't believe it. Not like I'm doing this on
my own.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
I was working almost by myself in my kitchen, and
then this commission happened, and then that led to the
Serpentine Pavilion, for example, which I couldn't believe, No, like
I was the youngest at the time to be doing
that that commission. And then now we get the commission
for the Metropolitan Museum, and it feels a little bit
(25:23):
like that. I No, I felt like, am I up
to the task? Am I too young? I've never done
a museum like that before. But this is just a
series of first times, no like one after the other,
and fortunately like each one of them has led to
a new adventure. So I've been thinking that I just
(25:43):
want to get very good at doing things for the
first time.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
What is the what is the brief?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
We're commissioned to do the renovation for the Modern and
Contemporary wing, And of course the challenge is that it's
an encyclopedic museum and you have like all the history
of humankind condensed into one single building, you know, with
many different ways of seeing human culture and approaching it.
(26:09):
But contemporary culture is growing and extending, and it's something
that is open ended. But it's also what's so fascinating
to me because it's not something that has been closed
as a moment in history. It's something that continues to evolve.
So that was kind of like the departure point, something
that would be flexible and open to interpretation, and that
(26:30):
would allow for new publics to come in. And that
was in the constant process of becoming. And there's this
beautiful moment in the Metropolitan Museum facade that Cosue Palma,
someone who's working in the project, pointed out very early
on during the competition, to me, and it's this detail
of an unfinished piece in the facade, and it's right there.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
A few people notice it.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
So you come up the steps and it's not the
right it's on the cornices, on the top of the
curs and you can see like the these raw blocks of.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Stone that are uncarved, and it's strange. And some people say, like, well,
they ran out of money at the time, they didn't
finish it. But to me, it's one of the most
beautiful and interesting moments because it's this idea that this
is the full potential. This is in the project and
on the process of being inscripted. It hasn't been yet,
(27:23):
but someone might tell the story in the future. And
I think that was the most inspiring thing, and that's
what we want to do, not like something that becomes
not just a container, but also a place where people
can gather and express themselves and to see themselves reflected
in the art that they're going to see, and therefore
to continue to tell other stories that have not been
(27:45):
inscripted yet in that space.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Where actually is the I'm trying to think where that
way is? So it's the hot you go straight through,
don't you.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
Yes, it's on the southwest corner of the museum.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
And where at stage are you in now?
Speaker 5 (28:00):
We just finished concept and we're starting schematic design, so
we still have a few more years ago and the
completion is expected to happen in twenty thirty.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
And I look at your work and I see the
way you've progressed. Have seen your work and your office.
You have office in Mexico, and you're working in New York,
and you're working now hopefully in Paris, and I hope
in London. I'm jealous. Now I want to do a
restaurant with you. Well, then, but that would be the
incentive to do another restaurant.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
But do you feel that you're growing slowly?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Or in that way, or do you I think so
to conquer the world in a big way too.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Not in a big way.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I think we're similar in that I never worked for anyone.
So it's this combination between being in my case being
a little bit stubborn, you know, like saying like I
can do this, and of course the easier path would
be to follow someone's steps, and it's non arrogant to
(29:00):
say like, I don't want to follow someone, because you're
at the same time admiring so many people no and
just looking.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Up to them.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
But it's just like trying to do it yourself, and
it's more painful sometimes and it's slower, and you need
to rely a lot on the people that are working
with you. But I enjoy that very much because it's
almost a way of building an extended family because you
work so much time with them, you share your hopes
(29:29):
and dreams with them, and you have to really trust
them because that's all you've got, you know, like you
can lose everything, and then you lose everything and you
start over again. So it starts very very small. I
still consider my office to be very small.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
We're eleven in.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
New York and nineteen in Mexico City, something like that.
The numbers fluctuate a little bit, but I still consider
it to be a small studio and I know all
of them. I try to spend time as much as
I can with them, and it has been a matter
of also explaining to them, like how we want to grow.
(30:06):
Sometimes they will come to me and say like, how.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Do you want to grow? Where are you heading?
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Like these things that are happening so fast, like the
met or these new competitions.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
How do you want to handle them?
Speaker 5 (30:18):
And to me, it's the idea of growing is maturing, no,
rather than being bigger and getting bigger projects, is like
better projects, better clients. And then finally, the ultimate goal
would be to have more time on each project and
then you can really spend some time thinking about something.
And I know that architecture is really slow, but I
(30:40):
want to have even more time, and so I want
to go even slower. That would be the ultimate goal.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I always ask if food is something that connects you
to your family, is something you do with your parents,
that you explore with friends or with lovers, or travel
or work the people you work. It's also comfort and
I think in times of my own experience with certain
(31:06):
foods that I when I needed comfort, that I would
associate with comfort.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
What would be your comfort food?
Speaker 5 (31:14):
My comfort food would be my father Striquez, And that
dish from my dad is to me like the thing
that brings me back to my feet and makes me remind.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Myself that everything will be all right.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
And the other one is my mom's start at I
and associate that with a more celebratory aspect of life.
So one is about comfort and the other one is
about like the joys of life.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
And we usually have.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
It for birthdays or for special occasions or I feel
also when she's feeling a little bit down, she would
cook at tatatan and then everything is just like sweet
and crisp.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Again. Yeah, I love Inflida.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Thank you, thank you so much, really
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with montclaird
You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Was not con god most fancier.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
When I'm asked why I love Mexico and why we
return every year for nearly thirty years, the answer is
the culture, cities, food, the seas, the mountains, the history.
But what I really love most are the people. And
Frida Escobedo is one of those people. We met in
(00:42):
twenty eighteen. She had just won the international competition to
design the Serpentine Gallery's annual summer pavilion. Richard was on
the jury. Her building brought the refined spirit of Mexico
to Hyde Park. Richard and I gave a fabulous party
celebrating this bright and beautiful young architect not long after
(01:04):
living in Mexico for four months. In a difficult time,
Frieda made the impossible possible with her care and concern
for us both. In the years since, Frida has become
one of the world's great architects. Along with other projects,
she's reimagining the contemporary and modern galleries at New York's
(01:24):
Metropolitan Museum of Art, the first woman architect to be appointed.
Today in the River Cafe, we're making deep Fried zucchini flowers.
Their stunning colors remind me of our beautiful Mexico, and
when she's not with me, the zucchini flowers remind me
of frieda.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Really, it's so nice to be with you again.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Nice to have you here. We have lots to talk
about it. But the first thing, why don't we read
the recipe? So people listening to you can learn how
to make zucchini flowers.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Okay, deep fried zucchini flowers. So for six people. Recipe
quantity of batter twenty four zucchini flowers, seven hundred and
fifty million liters, some flower oil and sea salt, and
the recipes. Make the batter and let it rest for
thirty minutes. And to prepare the flowers, remove the stamens
(02:16):
from the center and the green sepals from.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
The base of each flower. Keep the stalks attached.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Heat the oil until hot about one hundred and eighty
centigrees in a deep pan, and dip the flowers, holding
them by the stalks, into the batter. Top off any
excess batter on the side of the bowl, and place
them one at a time into the hot oil. Turn
the flowers over in the oil as they become golden.
Remove the flowers when crisp and drain on the kitchen paper,
(02:44):
Scatter with sea salt, and eat immediately.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Do you like them? I love them and I had
Would you if you ever cooked them? Would you ever
have a recipe? And here they are, there's the zucchini flowers.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
An Archie has just brought them in the chef at
the River Cafe. Would you like to talk about the
zucchini flowers that you just made?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yes? So these are zucchini flowers.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
They're part of the Fritto Misto dish today, so they're
being served alongside scallops, cuttlefish, zucchini batons, and sage and lemon.
These are I think so special because something you can
only get the summer, and to each one zucchini, it's
one flower, so you have to take real care when
you're prepping them to keep the shape when you're cooking
(03:28):
them as well.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Ours are quite delicate.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
When you make the batter as light as this, I
like to always be able to see the zucchini through it.
We always have them in Tuscany when we're there in
the summer, and one of the things I really like
about them is everybody can make them.
Speaker 6 (03:44):
Once they're picked away from the zucchini itself. They don't
last very long, so they're always going to be really,
really fresh.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
And is there a Mexican version.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Yes, actually it's one of my favorite foods in Mexico,
and we have them in casari, yes, that's right, or
you can have them with eggs or in soups. And
what I like it is that it's also very fragile,
so I only have them for a day, so you
have to be like eating them right away, and the
calories are pretty yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Good, thank you, pleasure enjoy.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
So let's talk about your early days. Tell me more
about your family.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
I have two sisters, and I grew up in Mexico City.
I was living there for my first five years, and
then the earthquake happened and my parents got divorced at
the same time, so there were two earthquakes in my life.
And then they moved to very close neighborhoods to each
other so they could still see me all the time,
(04:41):
both of them.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And both your parents were your father was my dad
is a doctor. There is a doctor, yes, and.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Your mother, my mom is a sociologist.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So tell me.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
About food in your household, would you sit down to
dinner altogether? Did you have a cook? Tell me about
what life was like food wise in their house.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
We did have a cook and someone who was helping
in the house all of the time. But my dad
was also very much into cooking, and he makes like
these simple but really delicious recipes, especially.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Good with Mexican food.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
He's great with soups and stews.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
So it's a kind of a lighter version of molet.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
It's more like a soup and it has vegetables and
meat in its.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Likely describe is to people who don't know.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
Molay is this very intricate, very elaborate paste that is
made out of chilis, spices, chocolate, banana, and it changes
with every family and the type of region that you
have it in Mexico, so it can be a darker chocolate,
or it can be made out of squash seeds, so
(05:53):
it can be green or yellow depending on the nuts
or the spices that you use.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
So it's sort of like a verst and of courie.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And then you always have mode in the French.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Yes, I think it's a it's a very typical staple
in Mexican homehouse and yes, And you can make with chicken,
and you can have it with rice, you can have
it with eggs. You can have it with cassadillas or
infri coladas, which is basically just tortilla with beans inside.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Would your father cooked during the week it would it
be something special he would do.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
It would be mostly on the weekends, but he would
also like to make breakfast.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Or dinner sometimes. And one of my.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
Favorite dishes from him is to rikas what's which is
like the leftover bread that you have from.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
The week that is a little bit hard.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
You would put it on an egg butter with vanilla
and cinnamon, a French.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Tas French toast.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I think it's like a Spanish version of that. And
then instead of using powdered sugar, you would use this
raw sugar that comes in like this cone.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
We call it biloon cio.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
I don't know the exact translation in English, but you
will melt the biloonsiu with a little bit of like
lemon juice and the lemon how do you call the
zest the lemon sest? Yes, and then you just create
the syrup.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So on the weekends.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
If cooking was something your father did love to do,
would he engage you and your sisters in the cookaine.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Yes, he would love to have me in the kitchen,
and he would just tell me these recipes actually very
simple ones, most of them coming from my grandmother.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I remember you talked about a pestle and mortar that
you have. Yes, just someone that was from your grandmother
to your father to you tell me about that.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Yes, that was a very special gift I received, and
I had to fight for it a little bit with
my dad because it's like in every Mexican house you
have this volcanic rock mortar. It's called mart and you
make everything in that from salsas to grindening spices or
(08:06):
just like grinding garlic for some other recipes, and it's
passed on from generation to generation. And I think this
is a very old one. It's very smooth on the inside,
and my father had it when my grandmother passed away.
So when I moved into my first apartment, I was
asking my dad to give it to me, and he
(08:28):
would say, like, not yet. And by the time I
returned from my master's degree, I think I was ready
to receive the mokat if you finally gave it to me.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Would your parents take you to restaurants.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
Yes, not too often.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
It was not as common as nowadays, not where people
eat out all the time. I remember it being like
once a week at most. But what I remember is
my mother used to enjoy a lot having desserts outside. Yes, yes,
And she's really good at making desserts. And so one
of my favorite things was on a rainy day, she
(09:03):
would just tell me, like, would you like to go
get some cake and tea, and we would drive to Polanco,
which was actually very far away from where we lived.
I think she just enjoyed like the time and the
car and just talking to me and being able to
be on one single space.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
What did your mother do?
Speaker 5 (09:21):
She was starting to work at you and women at
the time. And we would go to this place in Polanco,
which is in a little passage one of these like
pedestrian streets inside one of the older buildings, and we
would have tart or cake or some chocolate and tea.
(09:41):
And I thought it was such a treat to have
this in the middle of the week and then just
go back and you know, like it seemed like a
little celebration, And it was a very intimate time between
her and me because it was just like something she
and I would do, like no one else was in
that bubble, so it felt really special.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Sounds like food was important in your home, it was
important to your parents. And then when you went to university,
how did you cope with not having those meals?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Did you go home a lot? Did you eat out
with other students? Did you cook by yourself?
Speaker 5 (10:17):
I have to say that when I was a small child,
I ate everything, like everything that was presented to me
I would eat. But then I had like this short
period as a teenager where I wasn't even like liking
food too much, and I think it was more like
building my personality because it didn't last too long, and
as soon as I moved out of my parents' house,
(10:38):
I needed to start cooking by myself. So at the beginning,
I was like, I don't know how to cook anything,
and it was almost like an a statement, no, like I'm.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Against that, yeah, because of course my dad was.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Good at that, my mom was good at that, and
I was like, I'm not good to be doing this.
But then it was really silly because of course I
enjoyed food so much, so I just started cooking no
with my boyfriend at a time or with friends. They
would come over and we started making like small simple dishes,
and then slowly we became like more elaborate and just
(11:13):
enjoyed having time spending on the kitchen.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
The River Cafe cafe, steps away from our restaurant, is
now open. In the morning an Italian breakfast with cornetti,
ciambella and crostada from our pastry kitchen. In the afternoon,
ice creamed coups in River Cafe. Classic desserts come in
the evening for cocktails with our resident pianists in the bar.
No need to book see you here.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
We went to the University of Mexico. When you decide
to study.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Architecture, yes, because you didn't go thinking you were going
to be an architecture No.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
I was very decisive as a teenager, and I knew
that I wanted to do something with art or design
something with my hands. But it was just like until
a few days before they closed the exams that I
made up my mind.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
You were no longer in a domestic situation with your family,
and so you lived in an apartment and.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
It was actually until I graduated that I moved to
my own apartment. When you're studying architecture. That's a blessing
because it's like very long hours and other ways you
just don't take care of yourself at all, no, like
it's just like working.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
But then the big change must have been when you
went to Harvard, and so what was that like to
go from Mexico to in food terms, at Cambridge, it.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Was quite a shock because of course, like there was
again this culture of spending very very long hours looking
on your thesis or whatever you were supposed to be
doing at the time. Because I had a very generous
scholarship to have a small apartment for myself, I didn't
have to share, which was a blessing for me because
I could really.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
Manage my time.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
And I had a small kitchen and a group of
friends who liked to cook, and we would have the mescal,
which is a mescale Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Okay, and Tuesday at night or.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Tuesday at night Tuesday.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
And we were supposed to cook for each other, So
we would go around each other houses and we would
bring ingredients sometimes from our trips to Mexico, and we
would either you know, like small old tortillas or mallet,
or we would be doing like the small dishes and
then we wouldn't invite all the friends that were not
Mexican also, and that kind of started a nice tradition
(13:51):
of being able to think of yourself and what you needed,
how to bring people that were close to you as
a support system, because it's really heavy when you're starting,
like you spend all of this time and there's a
lot of pressure. It's very competitive, so it's a good
reminder that you also have a support system and people
that are just there to be with you and that
(14:15):
become friends for a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Did you go to restaurants? So when you were in Boston,
did you go out?
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Sometimes we usually did, like Chinese or the less expensive
versions of feeding out. It was also nice to try
new things and that was actually one of the few
ways which you could start getting to know Boston and
not just Cambridge. Otherwise you just stay on campus and
you basically never leave school. So for me, it was
(14:41):
like a little window to what the city of Boston
was not like hutting oysters were a lobster.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
That was a treat, very big portions. Did you ever
go to Mexican restaurant when you were in Boston? I
tried once and it was so that was such a
revelation for us when we went to Mexico that you.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Realized that the food that you had.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I didn't even go near it in Europe, but even
in the United States we thought it was heavy. You
get these big plates of six different different ingredients, different
ways of cooking them, and it just was so heavy.
And then we went to Mexico and as I said,
it was a revelation. It was a piece of beautiful
(15:24):
fish with as you described as salsa made of tomato
and onion and garlic and could use quite a lot
of chilantro. Yeah, and we haven't talked about guacamole, and
that it was so it was so delicate, and we
find and I wonder why well Mexican food didn't travel well,
(15:45):
you know, and whether it became a simple I think
now it's better. There are more really good restaurants in
New York, and there's a great restaurant here in London
doing Mexican food, and again the focus on ingredients, you know,
but it is it is a very different, different version
of what you the Mexican do you think it is?
Speaker 5 (16:07):
And also because Mexican food is so different from bridging
to region, then it's hard to tell, like what is
Mexican food.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
No, overall, you have the food from the coast, which is.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
Like these grilled fish and just oysters, but also shrimp,
and it's very simple, very few ingredients, very simple recipes.
And then you have the more elaborate we see No
Puebla and elba Hillo with these moorless and salsa that
are almost by roque and it's it's making.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
And then Yukata, when you have like the pooled pork.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Is there a region that you particularly like.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
I love Yukata.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
I think it's just like so tasty and it feels
like a comfort food. Sopa the lima, which is like
the chicken broth with lima, which is like these sweet lime.
I just feel like that is like food for the soul.
Every time you have like a something bad happened to you,
you go and have soap by the lima and it
makes better everything.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
And you started very quickly, didn't you with your own office.
You didn't work for anyone else. No, I've never worked
for anyone. I have no idea how a restaurant runs,
because I've only done it our way.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Did you ever bring food into your work life?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Yes, sometimes we would go to my place and we
would do like these cooking parties and we would cook together.
But it was when we were like just five or four.
Now it's a little bit more difficult, but it's a
nice tradition. I think it brings the team together and
then you really see the personalities and actually you see
how they collaborate also in the studio.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Okay, So as an architect, when you're designing, do you
think about public space and food where people will eat,
what they'll look at while they're eating, Will they have
a view? Will they kitchen be visible? Have you ever
designed a restaurant?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Yes, I am, I am right now?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Are you whereas it?
Speaker 5 (18:03):
It's going to be in the US, and it's going
to be for a dear friend. I'm very happy working
with her.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Tell us about her.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
She has like a very strong personality. She's very charming
and she just like walks into the room and everyone turns.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Around because she's there.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
And I think she has a very magnetic personality. In
her restaurant is Contra March Well one of them. She
has many, but that's probably the most famous one, and
I think it has become like.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
This icon in Mexico City.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
Everyone knows Contra Maage and part of the success is
not just the food, which is amazing, but also how
it becomes.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
It became.
Speaker 5 (18:43):
Like a gathering space. It's an epicenter for culture and
people watching, and everyone wants to go there to CMB scene.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
We had this routine in Mexico when Richard was in
the hospital. I would have kind of breakfast with my
friend family. They were always late, you know. I'd love
the Mexican breakfast at about ten maybe in the morning,
ten thirty and then a really delicious breakfast at Nido
at Karen, and then I would go to the hospital
(19:14):
and then we would meet at about four in the afternoon,
very often at Contramar, because everybody came to visit me
wanted to go to Contomar, and I loved going. It's
a very dramatic space, dramatic and democratic as well. You know,
it just feels like you're all in there's no good table,
You're all in one big space. You see the kitchen,
and then you would have a very late lunch and
(19:37):
then I'd go back to the hospital and then a
piece of fruit or something very simple for dinner. There
was no that was it, and I just thought it
was a great way of eating, you know, to have
that you know, not big heavy dinner before you go
to bed.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
And you're right like the a theist democratic space.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
It's just like a field condition of tables and I
think I've only seen or like that at Contra Mart,
but also at the Met Cafe, the staff cafet. It
was a big surprise, and I love that because it's
like the canteen for all the employees and everyone goes
(20:15):
to have lunch there and it's really special.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
And the director, yes, yes, curators.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
The curators, the people from maintenance, we that we we
spent a year at the Met with our offices there,
so we would go down and have lunch there and
you would see these mix of people. Some of them
would bring their own foods, some people would buy food there,
and it was just like a place where you can
encounter everyone and actually like really interesting conversations happened there.
(20:42):
So it was a working launch, but in a very
informal setting, which I feel.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
Like it's very unusual for Americans.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
You know, like usually they're very hard working and they're
like very pragmatic, So having these moments of just like
casual conversations about work were really special and SPONTANEU.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you
please make sure to rate and review the podcast on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, O, wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Thank you. How do you find New York for food?
Speaker 4 (21:33):
It's amazing.
Speaker 5 (21:35):
I like that It's so diverse and you can have
food from every country really authentic, so you can have
great Mexican, great Indian food, Chinese, Japanese everything.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Are you there much? Are you in New York question?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
I'm there every month.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
And are you're talking there or do not have time
to cook?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
No? I also cook like I find like that's my
way of relaxing. And I come back from work because
lunch is so short in America. Then I'm able to
come back home and then just do something simple and
I feel like I'm taking care of myself again. And
I live in Chelsea.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah. Nice. So there's good markets there?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yes, yes, yeah, my son used to live in Chelsea
and we use the Chelsea Market and then the wonderful
one is the Union Square exactly.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
That's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Isn't a great market? It is love that.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I thought it was very beautiful what you said about
a book that I also loved and also a writer
that I admire, Joe Didion's Blue, Blue, Blue Lights, Blue Nights.
And you said, there's a quote from you saying that
about it's a book about loss, but also being a woman,
(22:48):
being a mother or not being able to be a mother,
about aging and all things that fascinate and terrify me
at the moment. And it's a book about utter acceptance.
And then you talk about your sister's books, and so
do you think we could just talk for a moment
about women and writing and women and architecture.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
A few months later, after I finished reading for the
second time Blue Knights, my sister finished her first book
and it's a series of poems and it's talking about
the female body and the female body rhythm, and it
has to do with all of the things that happen,
know in cycles, And I think it's really special because
(23:27):
of course, as women, we know that we're always changing,
but they're like these constant flows, so we go back
and forth and we understand each other in such rhythms.
But some of these rhythms, I think are longer and
for me to see someone who's younger than me explaining
all of these processes, not like the idea of becoming
(23:48):
a woman, of becoming of fertile age, or becoming a
woman in menopause or aging, and the whole idea of
how people experience manhood from outside but also from the
inside became really like an important revelation. No for someone
that I saw from being a baby to now expressing
(24:11):
all of these very powerful ideas became almost liberating because
I couldn't explain them to myself so well as she
did with her poetry.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
You know, we're so excited that you're doing the Metropolitan Museum.
It meant a lot, I think, as as both a
confidence of the established museum to commission this to a
relatively young woman. First of all, how do you see it?
And also what are the challenges that you face in
(24:42):
that Well.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
It's an incredible opportunity, of course, and I think it's
almost a reminder that everything big that has happened in
my career felt a little bit like that now. I
remember the first time that I did a public commission.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I couldn't believe it. Not like I'm doing this on
my own.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
I was working almost by myself in my kitchen, and
then this commission happened, and then that led to the
Serpentine Pavilion, for example, which I couldn't believe, No, like
I was the youngest at the time to be doing
that that commission. And then now we get the commission
for the Metropolitan Museum, and it feels a little bit
(25:23):
like that. I No, I felt like, am I up
to the task? Am I too young? I've never done
a museum like that before. But this is just a
series of first times, no like one after the other,
and fortunately like each one of them has led to
a new adventure. So I've been thinking that I just
(25:43):
want to get very good at doing things for the
first time.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
What is the what is the brief?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
We're commissioned to do the renovation for the Modern and
Contemporary wing, And of course the challenge is that it's
an encyclopedic museum and you have like all the history
of humankind condensed into one single building, you know, with
many different ways of seeing human culture and approaching it.
(26:09):
But contemporary culture is growing and extending, and it's something
that is open ended. But it's also what's so fascinating
to me because it's not something that has been closed
as a moment in history. It's something that continues to evolve.
So that was kind of like the departure point, something
that would be flexible and open to interpretation, and that
(26:30):
would allow for new publics to come in. And that
was in the constant process of becoming. And there's this
beautiful moment in the Metropolitan Museum facade that Cosue Palma,
someone who's working in the project, pointed out very early
on during the competition, to me, and it's this detail
of an unfinished piece in the facade, and it's right there.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
A few people notice it.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
So you come up the steps and it's not the
right it's on the cornices, on the top of the
curs and you can see like the these raw blocks of.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Stone that are uncarved, and it's strange. And some people say, like, well,
they ran out of money at the time, they didn't
finish it. But to me, it's one of the most
beautiful and interesting moments because it's this idea that this
is the full potential. This is in the project and
on the process of being inscripted. It hasn't been yet,
(27:23):
but someone might tell the story in the future. And
I think that was the most inspiring thing, and that's
what we want to do, not like something that becomes
not just a container, but also a place where people
can gather and express themselves and to see themselves reflected
in the art that they're going to see, and therefore
to continue to tell other stories that have not been
(27:45):
inscripted yet in that space.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Where actually is the I'm trying to think where that
way is? So it's the hot you go straight through,
don't you.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
Yes, it's on the southwest corner of the museum.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
And where at stage are you in now?
Speaker 5 (28:00):
We just finished concept and we're starting schematic design, so
we still have a few more years ago and the
completion is expected to happen in twenty thirty.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
And I look at your work and I see the
way you've progressed. Have seen your work and your office.
You have office in Mexico, and you're working in New York,
and you're working now hopefully in Paris, and I hope
in London. I'm jealous. Now I want to do a
restaurant with you. Well, then, but that would be the
incentive to do another restaurant.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
But do you feel that you're growing slowly?
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Or in that way, or do you I think so
to conquer the world in a big way too.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
Not in a big way.
Speaker 5 (28:40):
I think we're similar in that I never worked for anyone.
So it's this combination between being in my case being
a little bit stubborn, you know, like saying like I
can do this, and of course the easier path would
be to follow someone's steps, and it's non arrogant to
(29:00):
say like, I don't want to follow someone, because you're
at the same time admiring so many people no and
just looking.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Up to them.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
But it's just like trying to do it yourself, and
it's more painful sometimes and it's slower, and you need
to rely a lot on the people that are working
with you. But I enjoy that very much because it's
almost a way of building an extended family because you
work so much time with them, you share your hopes
(29:29):
and dreams with them, and you have to really trust
them because that's all you've got, you know, like you
can lose everything, and then you lose everything and you
start over again. So it starts very very small. I
still consider my office to be very small.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
We're eleven in.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
New York and nineteen in Mexico City, something like that.
The numbers fluctuate a little bit, but I still consider
it to be a small studio and I know all
of them. I try to spend time as much as
I can with them, and it has been a matter
of also explaining to them, like how we want to grow.
(30:06):
Sometimes they will come to me and say like, how.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
Do you want to grow? Where are you heading?
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Like these things that are happening so fast, like the
met or these new competitions.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
How do you want to handle them?
Speaker 5 (30:18):
And to me, it's the idea of growing is maturing, no,
rather than being bigger and getting bigger projects, is like
better projects, better clients. And then finally, the ultimate goal
would be to have more time on each project and
then you can really spend some time thinking about something.
And I know that architecture is really slow, but I
(30:40):
want to have even more time, and so I want
to go even slower. That would be the ultimate goal.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I always ask if food is something that connects you
to your family, is something you do with your parents,
that you explore with friends or with lovers, or travel
or work the people you work. It's also comfort and
I think in times of my own experience with certain
(31:06):
foods that I when I needed comfort, that I would
associate with comfort.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
What would be your comfort food?
Speaker 5 (31:14):
My comfort food would be my father Striquez, And that
dish from my dad is to me like the thing
that brings me back to my feet and makes me remind.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Myself that everything will be all right.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
And the other one is my mom's start at I
and associate that with a more celebratory aspect of life.
So one is about comfort and the other one is
about like the joys of life.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
And we usually have.
Speaker 5 (31:42):
It for birthdays or for special occasions or I feel
also when she's feeling a little bit down, she would
cook at tatatan and then everything is just like sweet
and crisp.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Again. Yeah, I love Inflida.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Thank you, thank you so much, really
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with montclaird
Host
Ruth Rogers
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