In The River Cafe, we like a question. One of the reasons we have an open kitchen is that everything is on view and even our customers ask for tips on how to prepare their favourite meals.
This week, Sian Wyn Owen, Joseph Trivelli and I are answering questions you have sent in. When and what to eat, our favourite seasons and much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
So in the River Cafe, we love a question. We're
always saying to the young chefs is to come to
work for us, ask questions, Ask questions, and we tell
the people who've been working for us for quite a
while answer a question. I always answer a question. And
I think one of the reasons we love having an
open kitchen is it nothing's behind closed doors and customers,
(00:27):
guests come up to us and ask a question, where
did you get this ingredient? If I don't eat meat,
can I still make risotto with a stalk that's vegetables?
If you know I'm a vegetarian, Can I take the
anchovies out of salsa verde? What can I do? And
so it's how we learn, it's how we communicate, and
so we thought it'd be really nice on the podcast
(00:49):
for all of you who listen to ask us some questions.
And so Sean Owen and Joseph Travelli, the executive chefs,
who know the answers to every question, and if they don't,
we can ask them of each other. I hear, and
we just thought it would be a nice way to
listen to our listeners and to respond with questions because
(01:15):
we love a question people.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Then in the restaurant, you know, not so much anymore
in the old days. In the olden days, phone the
River Cafe kitchen, so you could get through to the
kitchen and someone would be on the phone and say
I'm having a dinner party in an hour and my
chocolate nemesis hasn't set, and we'd be like, okay, yeah,
you know, and then people would be questioning recipes. And
(01:39):
it's I think now with the sort of how receptions changed,
doesn't it you can't.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Get directly straight through the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
A professional always run for the phone.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I remember where the phone was, it was on the wall.
I remember somebody once say about a lemon sorbe. I
had to give the whole direction because the lemon sorbe
hadn't worked.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, And also you feel vaguely responsible for the fact
that they're having a big stress out at home, even
though you may you don't know the size of even
the pan that they've put a nemesis in. Often and
things like that, or how hot the other has actually
even think so.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
I remember someone saying they were roasting some pork and
they asked me if it was ready.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So I've been having smith. I don't know if your
pork's ready.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So what is the first question?
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Hello, Ruthie and team. My name is Penny. I'm here
in Bristol. I love listening to Ruthie's table and end
up being hungry by the end of it. My question
for you and your team of chefs is what's your
favorite season for the menu? Summer salads with obviously lots
(02:47):
of olive oil and fresh ingredients, or do you really
enjoy cooking over the colder months stews and maybe more
pastas and warming dishes. Anyway, I'd love to hear thanks
again for such a great podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Many from Bristol. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I think?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I would say my favorite season is generally the season
I'm in, because every season is exciting and so in
the contrary to what you might think about winter food,
it doesn't have to be stews and slow cook things.
It can be amazing winter citrus and amazing bitter salad
leaves and summer food. You can have a wet summer
(03:31):
and decide to do a vil shin and so I
love that all the seasons and as the seasons transfer
from one to the next, day to day. You follow
the seasons with excitement because because we write the menu
twice a day, you know, every day is another day
long in the season. But then as chefs often, I
(03:52):
think autumn is one of the favorite seasons of the
chef because of it has some super tasty ingredients.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
The best place is where you are. I get most excited.
I suppose at the start of things like I am,
you know, always longing for basil, you know, all winter,
and then when it comes, because it's not even just
the flavor, but it's the fact that there's the spring all.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Of a sudden, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
So I love I love the start of the seasons,
or that bit where the seasons maybe one's finishing and
one's starting. So maybe now once we're through, you know,
this hungry gap or the start of autumn when you've
still got the tomatoes are incredibly ripe and the poor
cheli mushrooms are ready, you know, that's my probably my favorite.
But everything has its own place, and if you don't
(04:43):
have the things all year, you know, the obvious ones.
I think in England that I grew up with were
strawberries and asparagus. You know, the benefit of not having
had them all year just makes them so much an
icer and that goes for everything. Like another thing we
have all year we rely on having is pastley. But
all of a sudden the middle the summer, something that
pasty gets delicious. You realize that actually everything's gone at season, and.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Then you get the exciting season crossover, like Joseph said,
at the end of the summer and the beginning of
the autumn. For one brief month, I guess you have
mushrooms and tomatoes, but when tomatoes begin, like in July,
you don't have mushrooms. It's like doing one of those
color charts where you lap over colors. Those crossovers. Sometimes,
(05:29):
if I go to a restaurant, I probably shouldn't say this.
I'd tick off things on the menu that if I
was going to a restaurant today and it had like
gyroles on it, I'd be like, where are they from?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And also you sometimes see combinations that could.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Never work, like yeah, celearia sparagus, and well, they're just
they're not already at the same time, how do you.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Have in my head if I go to a restaurants.
It's like that I'm just screaming no. But this is
just because we've worked here for so long that that's
just how we see it, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I remember somebody coming in one tomato salad in January
February and we didn't we didn't have winter tomatoes then,
and we did, and they were absolutely incredulous. I think
Adrian Girl used to be furious about the seasonality of
a restaurant critic.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
I get where Adrian or if this I mean, I'm
just gonna I'm going to guess this is what he
meant me doesn't like the idea, this kind of snobbish
like I'm not going to have.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
This now, denial.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You know It's the other way, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
It's like, actually, I'm a greedy glutton, so I want
everything when it's at best. You know, it's not because
I'm you know, high minded about it.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I just want to have.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You're a bit high minded.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Though. My daughter she was desperately wanting pesto, and I
was like, I like, it's any may past yet, and they're.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Like like, no, police.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah. I probably would respond more openly to say that
I love the autumn For me, it's when game and
porcini and pumpkins and the kind of darker food that
looks longer, and also, probably, as you say, relief from
the summer, when you have a lot more green and
fresh and somehow the darkness of autumn and the colors
(07:11):
of the food something I love. Thank you Penny from Bristol,
and let's hear our next question.
Speaker 7 (07:17):
Hello, Ruthie, this is Troy from New York City. My
question for the chefs and for you is a very
simple question, and it's about asparagus. I don't think that
there's a vegetable or a fruit that we get more
excited about. In our home. We make risotto, we steam it,
we roasted. I just made alice waters soup from Chapannice vegetables.
(07:42):
And there's a place we love to go to in
the Pioneer Valley in Massachusetts where they make asparagus ice
cream with almonds. But this is my question. I don't
want to waste the asparagus, and I'm never quite confident
in how much cut off each spear. I'd love to
(08:02):
know how you deal with it, what you advise, and
then what your chefs also love most about making with asparagus,
and you too, Ruthie. I'd love to hear what it
is that you love to make with asparagus. Well, thank you.
I love your show. I don't think i've missed an episode.
I'm eager to hear more.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Thank you, Thank you, Troy.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Okay, asparagus, Well, I think that, and I often tell them.
You know that everyone gets an asparagus and they just
snap it where it naturally snaps, and they throw this
bit away. Worse best, they put it in a stock,
and I think you can. Actually I think he's right,
because I'm a miser. You waste a bit of asparagus
if you do that. I think if you could just
cut it with a knife, probably a centimeter, but you
just cut the first one and you see where it's hard,
(08:48):
and depending on how fresh it is, you can go
further down the spear. So just cut the first one,
maybe eat a little bit raw, and see if it's
still nice or not, and then you're away. He wasted
than as possible to pay.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
In the River Cafee kitchen, we we snap the asparagus
at the natural snapping point, don't we, And that's what
everyone's taught to do. That's just the kind of house style.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
So sometimes when I see that happening these days, I
tell them not to because I think that you do
just you lose.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
When they're in their peak.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
You can eat the whole of the Have.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You ever been in a situation where you're talking and whatever?
Certainly I have, and then I eat the whole asparagus,
and I look at everybody else's plate. I've always left
the plate is full of asparagus. You're embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You're embarrassed. Actually the other way around. They're embarrassed. They're
thinking I could have.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Had more ers. It's alway asparagus. So what else do
you feel?
Speaker 8 (09:52):
Well?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
What else did he have? Asparagus? Ice cream? Maybe we
better go to that valley in Massachusetts and see what
that tastes like.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
You don't like asparagus served with the main course, that's
one of.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Our Yeah, I never use asparagus as a vegetable with something.
I love asparagus with risotto or in pasta, But you're
quite right, I would never have it as.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
When you sometimes get the the coal on the red
phone asparagus on dover soul, and you're like that definitely, will.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You know?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Because there's some things that are just house rules that
we all bye by. Not that you couldn't have asparagus
as a vegetable, but we don't serve it as a
vegetable as a side dish. Do we serve it as
a as its own thing.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm really loving the asparagus that we've done a lot
this year with either anchovy butter or bottargat butter, because
I love butter. Also, I like butter when it isn't melted,
but it's just melts from the heat, especially in the
whitest sparagus. I like it.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So I like the fonder I liked, which is a
rich dish where you have we make a sauce from
crumb fresh and egg yolks and parmesan and cook it
over a bamerie. It goes thick and it just tastes
like a cheesy, creamy sauce. Yeah, and it is. It's
quite decadent. You could have that as a meal. It's
(11:26):
it's really nice. I was having that every day for
the week before.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
And this time of the year, like when it's a
bit sunnier, I actually quite like eating this sparagus.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
You know, it's lovely hot fresh when it's just.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Come out the oven or just come out the off
the grill or whatever. But I also like it when
it's cooled down, you know, when it's cold, particularly the whitestparagus.
I think the flavor comes out more as it gets
as it cools down a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was going to go on to white versus green asparagus,
What are your feelings about that?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I reckon white atparagus is an acquired taste. I've just
come back from Switzer actually, and they had massive bundles
of it in the in the market, like for nine
euros for huge buns of white esparagus. And I cooked
a load of it the other night actually, and my
daughter just couldn't eat it. It was so bitter, and
I was like that I really cooked in salted water.
(12:18):
But it was so delicious. But I thought for a
younger palette, maybe it's a harder because.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I really discovered it when we were living in Paris,
and once we discovered white asparagus all we wanted to eat.
We would bring it back to London to bring to
friends or to the kids, and they didn't like it
at all.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It's white asparagus, the burgundy of asparagus, because it seems
like it's quite a bit more high brow than green.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
It's like it's like a completely different thing, isn't it.
We quite often have green asparagus and whitespagus after each
other on the menu, and really they are just completely
I actually I have done it this evening. They're completely different.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
I don't like to mix them.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
On the same pate. Okay, thanks, that was a great question,
and come and see us soon. Hi, Ruthy. This is
Jen from New York City.
Speaker 9 (13:06):
I'm actually a personal chef myself, so I really really
love the recipes and the guests, and I love the
whole conversation. Is there a guest that you've always wanted
to have on the show that you just can't get
because of timing scheduling. I'd love to know who your
white whale is.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Thanks so much. Well, I'm going to say something because
I have been asked this question before, and I suppose
if there was one guest that I could have, it
would be my husband, Richard Rogers, because I'll start to cry.
But he died before we came up with the podcast,
so he never was and I think it had been amazing,
(13:46):
don't you that, Richard on because he would have talked
about he had a great childhood, he grew up with
Lawrence and then he came to London. And you know,
the podcast is really about stories, and so I think
you would have had a lot of stories about living
in Paris and having an Italian mother who is a
great cook. And he never cooked himself, but he was
(14:07):
a great eater and he loved eating in the River Cafe.
Kind of we made the River Cafe for him because
he couldn't work without having lunch, and so we brought
lunch to the office in sense that we put a
restaurant right near the office. So I think it would
have been great. I would have also loved to have
had Rose as a guest, and she would have been
(14:28):
frightfully honest and would have been very direct and again,
stories to tell. But whenever I hear about somebody coming
out of think, oh, that's a good idea. They would
be great, let's have that person. So a lot of
my guests are slightly older. I realized that too, that
there is something about life and stories that come through age.
(14:50):
But you know, I've also had very young people who
are funny, and yeah, I'm just always waiting for the
next person imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and
bottled for the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month.
Our subscription is available for six or twelve months, with
(15:13):
each oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying
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Speaker 10 (15:35):
Hello Ruthie, I'm a massive fan down in Sydney, Australia.
In the past few years, I've become a massive fan
of Booya bass and any bisc based dishes. I've tried
a few times to make a really good stop to
use in my recipes, but have always failed. I suspect
I'm cooking my brawn heads as we call them here,
(15:58):
not shrimp a bit too long. Do you have any
tips on making a really good shrimp or prawn stock?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Thank you? Okay, over to you.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
We've actually been doing quite a bit of this the
last kind of year. One of the other head chefs
lies there is a big fan of bisk type stocks
and you.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Know when I make them.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I actually be honest, it's not something I do at home,
but yeah, roasting the bones or the heads or frying
them in the pan, having quite a lot of them
to water or wine or whatever you're using. Instead of
putting in cold water, maybe put in try putting in
some ice cubes so that it's the thing that when
(16:44):
she mentions cooking it for a long time, that's right.
Boiling for a long time doesn't help a bisk, but
bringing it up over a long time to boiling point
or just you know thereabouts definitely helps. So yeah, cooking
it initially quite slowly and then not overdoing it is
really my advice.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We put quite a lot of vegetables alongside it, don't
We don't just do the shells. We do like a
full base of things like onion, garlic, celery, red chiliese tomatoes, fennel, seeds,
parsi stalks, bay leaves, whatever, white wine like you name
it isn't it probably you know, there's a lot of
(17:23):
other aromatics going in that. Some of our chefs make
amazing bisks that you just think we should just be
soup because they're so good. Because we don't really use
biscus us as a pass the sauce or but not
as a lovely fish soup. Well we do sometimes, but
not as often as we might. But it's all about
(17:44):
the aromatics as well, isn't it. And getting the balance right,
like not too much onion, not too much of anything.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's really rewarding thing to make.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
It's a real chefy kind of balance, you know, to
get those things right, you know, it's kind of old
school cooking.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It also makes such a difference to the risotta. You
can taste. It just tastes so much whether the beski
has been cooked too long and it's too strong. But
then also in a fish resutta, I prefer to have
whatever fish is put in teeny tiny and maybe not
too much of it. And so the bisk really plays
a role, I think in terms of the taste rather
(18:22):
than the actual fish that you're eating. But then in
the River cafe, we don't boil our stalks for very long,
do it. We don't make those kind of long cook
stocks that you often see. I remember the first time
I went into a restaurant kitchen and I just you know,
they had special parts of whether they stock in the
equipment and it just was cooking for so long and
(18:45):
it was so dark. And I think all our stocks
are kind of uniquely very light.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Don't you make fish stock, We don't always just use
fish bones. You know, you can sometimes use fish in
it as well.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Which.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Sorry, fish stock, they're unusual. But if you make a
fish stock, you don't have to just use fish.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Boat white fish.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And you can change the sweetness or the minerality by
if you put carrot in or onion and things like
this is it sweetness, whereas if you have less of
that and more other flavors like fennel, and they can
get minerally flavors.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And just so you can taste. Sometimes you can just
taste that taste of a stock that's been cooked too
long and it is too intrusive.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I really agree.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
I think chefs that come to work here they're often
surprised that you know, you say, you know, ten o'clock.
They're like, what would you like? What would you like
me to do? Make a risotte? First of all, put
some stock on. You know that it would ordinarily they'd
be made at least the day before and in the fridge,
but that's just not how we work.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We do sometimes make chicken stock in the wood even
though overnight.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Oh that's true. That's really good.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
If you're going to make a lot of a chicken
stock at home, and you didn't have chicken stock, and
you would.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Probably use like a quarter of the cube, and you
just a tiny bit, you wouldn't use anything. You wouldn't
any if you could do.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Nothing exactly, you don't have to use because.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
We'd be lying to say I'd be lying to say
I make chicken stock at home to make risotto.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
That would be a lie.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
So I want you to lie on this.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Chef, but I would be I would be lying. I
didn't make chicken stock every week at home?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Do you make it every week?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I always make This is the working mother versus a
working father.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Thank you, Julie, and I think our next question is
from Glasgow.
Speaker 11 (20:44):
My name is Sean.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I'm not a bad coop, but I can never get
or pushing rate.
Speaker 11 (20:50):
Can you maybe run through some tips or help?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Thank you you Joseph. How about you?
Speaker 5 (20:59):
I don't know like this is a classic like it?
I do like it a lot, and I think it's
something that can't be bad. However, runny or you know,
and I've gone through loads of different ways to make it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Frying the aubergine.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
You know at home probably more often, might roast it instead,
But I just think having all nice ingredient it's really
boring answer, but I think the most best way is
just to have all the ingredients as nice as you can.
The best tomatoes, tomato sauce, really nice mozzarella. Doesn't have
to be buffalo mozzarella or anything, but something really nice
mozzarella and parmesan.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Maybe cook the tomatoes long enough, drink he used cheddar.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
No, I love it, don't you?
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Really, I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I think I came to it rather late in life,
but I like it, and I have a friend who
makes it really well. I think that for me, the
thing I feel really strongly about obortunes is that there's
nothing worse than an undercooked obrain. You have an undercooked
other vegetable. But I think if it hasn't been fried
or cooked or that long enough so that you have
(22:07):
that difference between the aubergine and everything else that's in it,
then it loses its definition. And I definitely agree on
the watery bit. Watery tomato sauce isn't good in anything,
So when you cook the tomatoes. Tomatoes, tomatoes, you before
you start cooking, you want to try and get as
much water out of them, if they're either fresh or
(22:29):
if they're in a in a tin or in a jar,
because it's just water really, and so I think you
want to get rid of that and then just cook
them slowly until the oil almost comes to the top
of the sauce, so you really see the oil at
the top, and then you have a nice thick tomato sauce.
Speaker 11 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
And the other thing that might make it water easier
the mozzarella it's been sitting in, yeah, water, So I
would normally I take it out. Either I buy a
specifically a hard mozzarella that you would make pizza with.
I think that's the best for parmeagina or else if
it's you know, very soft, bring it out of the water,
cut it into bits, and let it sit in the
calender and drain the water liquid away and.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
The abergines because nothing anti water water us You've got
is that, you know, very often we put those roasted
aubergines in a dish, there's always that liquid. Yeah, So
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
But also if you let it sit for a bit,
at the end the water will probably absorb in at
some point.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
That's you think you can.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Tell if the abergine's cooked, Yeah, sort of if you
push down the sides of the abogine to push together.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So if it's the abergines are not cooked enough, you
can't sort of squat between your fingers and we.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Do when we do those slow roasted aubergines. And then
you open one and if it looks all white inside
and it's side, you just don't want to go near it. Yeah,
you know, it's really that would be something that I
would really watch out for. Here at Ruthie's Table four,
we have something exciting to tell you. Our new substeck
has just launched. You will find all kinds of extra
(24:09):
material from the River Cafe, including recipes, our latest news,
and bonus content from the podcast. If you enjoy listening
to this series as much as I enjoy talking with
our guests, visit the Rivercafe dot substeck and subscribe. See
you there, hi, Ruthy, Jean and Joseph.
Speaker 12 (24:32):
I am going to be going to Florence in a
few weeks and then to the Ligraan coast. I have
been to Italy a few times and have some family there,
but I haven't spent a ton of time in this
particular region, and I've been so inspired by the way
you talk about going to Italy to educate yourselves firsthand
about the food, and I am just wondering if you
(24:56):
have any suggestions for things to seek out in particular
in this area and maybe things you really love about
the region, foods or places or things that I should
make sure to experience. I'm not a professional chef, but
I love to cook and eat and I love to
listen to this podcast every week. So thank you so
(25:17):
much and hope to be back at the River Cafe.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Maybe on this trip team.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
We could do a whole podcast on that.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I think we're each going to give you one place
if we can, and mine would be to go to
a town called Vernatza, and that's on the Chinquitera, the
Five Towns. It's a town that we've been going to forever.
My son was married there. We have a very strong link,
and one of the strong links we have is with
(25:44):
a treacherya called Johnny Francie, and it's in the square.
It's all local. The wine is local, the olive oil
is local, the basil comes from the hills and the
fish from the sea. And I think that if I
were you, I would have everything with pesto. Try the
trinetti with pesto. I'd have the minnestrone with pesto, and
(26:05):
then great grilled fish that's just come from the sea.
It's kind of my ideal meal. I would go in
the evening because for nuts to like many towns now
on the coast, it's so crowded during the day, but
in the evening it empties out. And just tell them
that he sent you and have a wonderful meal.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
They're going to be like all the rest of the list.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
And if you're going to get if you're going on
the way so you're getting the train or in that direction,
then you should stop in Recco, a town sort of
halfway between there and Jennifer, and have for catchur ereco
in any of the bakeries. I am nuts for the
bakeries in the Gura and that you know, incredibly thin
type of for catcher with cheese inside is not to
(26:51):
be missed.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Do you have a go to.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Would you in Florence or if you're if you're in Florence,
you I would say, you just want to sit in
the cafe on the main square and look at the yeah,
and just have a cornetti and a cappuccino and watch
people go by and just soak up the kind of
(27:16):
the feeling of the city, which I think once you
feel that, the food tastes even better, doesn't it. Like
you can recommend ten restaurants in Florence of the you know,
but the actual the culture of the people having a
perativo before dinner and walking around and just just absorbing it,
just sitting there and smelling the air and hearing the
(27:37):
bells of the church and going to the your fitzy
gallery and just absorbing. Florence's just such a beautiful city.
It's packed, isn't it. But you know, there's obviously Panzano,
but it's Panzano on the tourist trail too much. Maybe
everyone goes there.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's not a good recommendation. It's not a bad recommendation.
It's a great recommendation. But they'd probably be like, oh
my god, another person recommends Planzano.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
That's all right, give us a break, the tourists.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
The mayor.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Actually I'm on the.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Payroll, okay, thank you. So much, have a great trip
and enjoy both places. Florence, Renazza and Pensana.
Speaker 11 (28:15):
Hi Ruthian team. I'm looking forward to visiting the River
Cafe as soon as possible from the culinary capital of Ireland, Cork.
My question is the River Cafe is so entwined with
Italy and all the things wonderful and wonderfully Italian. But
has there ever been a time where you thought, maybe
we'll extend to a slightly different cuisine to bring something
(28:40):
new in, maybe a spin off in a different discipline.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Different discipline, maybe Chinese colly we've in just twenty five
years and doctrinated.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's like, how can we think of something else?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I think we're still What we find is that after
thirty eight years over the River Cafe, we still have
so much to learn from Italian cooking. Although I do
have to say that we do love cooking and eating
other cultures. You know, we love food from Indian food, Chinese, Thai,
(29:16):
I love Mexican food, so we're constantly eating and tasting.
But I think that for us, our language is Italian
and we probably will keep speaking it.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
When I go out to me, I often go somewhere
that maybe Japanese or something, just to get sort of
a palette change, isn't it. But the me and Joseph
went through a phase of watching people making sober noodles
and we were like, just, you know, should we follow
a YouTube as hed Chest of the River Cafe and
try and make soutorials.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You've seen the one where they teach you to make
five sauces or something, and I don't know, for some reason,
it's on my Instagram constantly had this guy saying this
is how you make them week days. I look at it,
I think, wow, a couple.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Of what whisks it's done.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But we do because he always Because you spend a
lot of time in Paris, you you know, there's always
that thing of the love of French food and the classics,
the kind of classic culinary tradition, and sometimes we would
imagine what we'd cook if we had the River Cafolic
Cafe as a French restaurant, and what we'd cook and
taking the same approach to the French that would be.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
You know, as you remember times and after service we've
sat around and talked about our favorite French food and
there is an ongoing conversation you had Canal and we
had had estra girl and the garlic and what about
a souffle? And you know, we start talking that way
and then as you said, I do the same. I
cook the same food at home that I cook here.
(30:48):
But I love eating out and having another culture's food
in the restaurant. That's what I'm going for. Yeah, and
now we have our last question from Caitlin, Sean and Joseph.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
A leader once told me that they hire for their
team based on the two c's culture and competence. How
do you know an individual is going to be a
culture fit for your team? What competencies are non negotiable?
And does one see outrank the other. I'm a longtime listener,
(31:21):
hopeful future diner, and I look forward to hearing your
insight on this because you're obviously master curators of talent.
Thank you from Caitlin in New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Thank you, Caitlyn, over to you too.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
I think the thing when you're employing a chef is
do you quite quickly get a feel over a conversation
if you'd like them to come and spend a day
with you. And I think everyone does come and spend it,
you know, at least today and then over the day
you get a really nice you know, it's a lovely way.
I mean to sort of conduct an interview or a trial,
(31:56):
not just with Sean and I as the you know,
executive chefs, but we use the whole team.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So you're right. That does speak to the.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Culture of the place, and I think the culture is
probably more important than there than anything else.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
We people come to work here and they stay for
years and years, so we really like them to fit.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It was funny because we'll talk about that todayt lunchtime,
where we were saying, how sometimes you interview people and
they say they they haven't got much experience. You can,
we don't need much experience, will teach or everything you
need to know. But some people like I love cooking
at home, Okay, Like some people are lawyers and they're like,
(32:36):
I want to be a chef because I love cooking
at home. You're like, maybe stick to your like legal
professional job and cook at home because being a chef
is it's a way of life, isn't it. It's a
kind of funny game. I think, having been a chef
for thirty years, I think most of your friends will
be chefs. You wor at nights weekends, you stand up
all day, So you look for someone that's kind of
(32:58):
going to know that they're most likely kind of have
less nights at home than more, you.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
Know, and really enjoys that as well. You know, you
can quickly see sometimes We were actually talking about a
boy that came to do work experience from a school
last year, and he was so clearly, you know, a
natural fit in a kitchen and liked being in there
and standing up and enjoyed all that. That suited us,
but it doesn't suit everyone.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I also think that it's really important nowadays more than
ever that is a very respectful working environment, and I
think obviously that comes from Rose and Ruth, you know,
as you know, the pioneers of that kind of kitchen.
Being able to run a kitchen that's like with what
you would say, hope rather than fear, and a kitchen
that's built on good working hours, really nice conditions, great ingredients.
(33:45):
All lends itself to a really kind working environment where
people are very respectful to each other. And we are
very hardline on that kind of behavior. So if there's
any non negotiables, it's people that come in having maybe
worked in aggressive kitchen, and you can see that they
might bring some of that with them, and you have
to nip it in the butt or they're not going
to fit in. And you can quite clearly see if
(34:07):
someone comes with that, you can say, you know, this
isn't that kind of kitchen. So if you want to
bring banter, innuendo, any of that aggressive behavior, it doesn't
fit in here. And so that's probably our hard line.
And as a result, it's just a really nice place
to work generally.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
And also I'm not incredibly superstitious, but I think people
find us to you know, so often have been there
over there twenty years and more that we've worked here
together and be like, oh my gosh, how did this other?
You know, like they're just a perfect fit. Where did
they come from? Literally all over the world, somehow they
seem to find us.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So thank you. This is a great time spent with you.
I think you answered questions from people listening and hearing
your responses. You as answered questions that maybe I would
ask for. Maybe you answered things in a way that
I was expected and unexpected. So as we started this
program saying we questions, we do and thank you so much.
Speaker 11 (35:08):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with Montclair
You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
So in the River Cafe, we love a question. We're
always saying to the young chefs is to come to
work for us, ask questions, Ask questions, and we tell
the people who've been working for us for quite a
while answer a question. I always answer a question. And
I think one of the reasons we love having an
open kitchen is it nothing's behind closed doors and customers,
(00:27):
guests come up to us and ask a question, where
did you get this ingredient? If I don't eat meat,
can I still make risotto with a stalk that's vegetables?
If you know I'm a vegetarian, Can I take the
anchovies out of salsa verde? What can I do? And
so it's how we learn, it's how we communicate, and
so we thought it'd be really nice on the podcast
(00:49):
for all of you who listen to ask us some questions.
And so Sean Owen and Joseph Travelli, the executive chefs,
who know the answers to every question, and if they don't,
we can ask them of each other. I hear, and
we just thought it would be a nice way to
listen to our listeners and to respond with questions because
(01:15):
we love a question people.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Then in the restaurant, you know, not so much anymore
in the old days. In the olden days, phone the
River Cafe kitchen, so you could get through to the
kitchen and someone would be on the phone and say
I'm having a dinner party in an hour and my
chocolate nemesis hasn't set, and we'd be like, okay, yeah,
you know, and then people would be questioning recipes. And
(01:39):
it's I think now with the sort of how receptions changed,
doesn't it you can't.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Get directly straight through the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
A professional always run for the phone.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I remember where the phone was, it was on the wall.
I remember somebody once say about a lemon sorbe. I
had to give the whole direction because the lemon sorbe
hadn't worked.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, And also you feel vaguely responsible for the fact
that they're having a big stress out at home, even
though you may you don't know the size of even
the pan that they've put a nemesis in. Often and
things like that, or how hot the other has actually
even think so.
Speaker 5 (02:14):
I remember someone saying they were roasting some pork and
they asked me if it was ready.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
So I've been having smith. I don't know if your
pork's ready.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
So what is the first question?
Speaker 6 (02:25):
Hello, Ruthie and team. My name is Penny. I'm here
in Bristol. I love listening to Ruthie's table and end
up being hungry by the end of it. My question
for you and your team of chefs is what's your
favorite season for the menu? Summer salads with obviously lots
(02:47):
of olive oil and fresh ingredients, or do you really
enjoy cooking over the colder months stews and maybe more
pastas and warming dishes. Anyway, I'd love to hear thanks
again for such a great podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Many from Bristol. What do you think?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
I think?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I would say my favorite season is generally the season
I'm in, because every season is exciting and so in
the contrary to what you might think about winter food,
it doesn't have to be stews and slow cook things.
It can be amazing winter citrus and amazing bitter salad
leaves and summer food. You can have a wet summer
(03:31):
and decide to do a vil shin and so I
love that all the seasons and as the seasons transfer
from one to the next, day to day. You follow
the seasons with excitement because because we write the menu
twice a day, you know, every day is another day
long in the season. But then as chefs often, I
(03:52):
think autumn is one of the favorite seasons of the
chef because of it has some super tasty ingredients.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Yeah, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
The best place is where you are. I get most excited.
I suppose at the start of things like I am,
you know, always longing for basil, you know, all winter,
and then when it comes, because it's not even just
the flavor, but it's the fact that there's the spring all.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Of a sudden, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
So I love I love the start of the seasons,
or that bit where the seasons maybe one's finishing and
one's starting. So maybe now once we're through, you know,
this hungry gap or the start of autumn when you've
still got the tomatoes are incredibly ripe and the poor
cheli mushrooms are ready, you know, that's my probably my favorite.
But everything has its own place, and if you don't
(04:43):
have the things all year, you know, the obvious ones.
I think in England that I grew up with were
strawberries and asparagus. You know, the benefit of not having
had them all year just makes them so much an
icer and that goes for everything. Like another thing we
have all year we rely on having is pastley. But
all of a sudden the middle the summer, something that
pasty gets delicious. You realize that actually everything's gone at season, and.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Then you get the exciting season crossover, like Joseph said,
at the end of the summer and the beginning of
the autumn. For one brief month, I guess you have
mushrooms and tomatoes, but when tomatoes begin, like in July,
you don't have mushrooms. It's like doing one of those
color charts where you lap over colors. Those crossovers. Sometimes,
(05:29):
if I go to a restaurant, I probably shouldn't say this.
I'd tick off things on the menu that if I
was going to a restaurant today and it had like
gyroles on it, I'd be like, where are they from?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And also you sometimes see combinations that could.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Never work, like yeah, celearia sparagus, and well, they're just
they're not already at the same time, how do you.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Have in my head if I go to a restaurants.
It's like that I'm just screaming no. But this is
just because we've worked here for so long that that's
just how we see it, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I remember somebody coming in one tomato salad in January
February and we didn't we didn't have winter tomatoes then,
and we did, and they were absolutely incredulous. I think
Adrian Girl used to be furious about the seasonality of
a restaurant critic.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
I get where Adrian or if this I mean, I'm
just gonna I'm going to guess this is what he
meant me doesn't like the idea, this kind of snobbish
like I'm not going to have.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
This now, denial.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
You know It's the other way, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
It's like, actually, I'm a greedy glutton, so I want
everything when it's at best. You know, it's not because
I'm you know, high minded about it.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I just want to have.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
You're a bit high minded.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Though. My daughter she was desperately wanting pesto, and I
was like, I like, it's any may past yet, and they're.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Like like, no, police.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah. I probably would respond more openly to say that
I love the autumn For me, it's when game and
porcini and pumpkins and the kind of darker food that
looks longer, and also, probably, as you say, relief from
the summer, when you have a lot more green and
fresh and somehow the darkness of autumn and the colors
(07:11):
of the food something I love. Thank you Penny from Bristol,
and let's hear our next question.
Speaker 7 (07:17):
Hello, Ruthie, this is Troy from New York City. My
question for the chefs and for you is a very
simple question, and it's about asparagus. I don't think that
there's a vegetable or a fruit that we get more
excited about. In our home. We make risotto, we steam it,
we roasted. I just made alice waters soup from Chapannice vegetables.
(07:42):
And there's a place we love to go to in
the Pioneer Valley in Massachusetts where they make asparagus ice
cream with almonds. But this is my question. I don't
want to waste the asparagus, and I'm never quite confident
in how much cut off each spear. I'd love to
(08:02):
know how you deal with it, what you advise, and
then what your chefs also love most about making with asparagus,
and you too, Ruthie. I'd love to hear what it
is that you love to make with asparagus. Well, thank you.
I love your show. I don't think i've missed an episode.
I'm eager to hear more.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Thank you, Thank you, Troy.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Okay, asparagus, Well, I think that, and I often tell them.
You know that everyone gets an asparagus and they just
snap it where it naturally snaps, and they throw this
bit away. Worse best, they put it in a stock,
and I think you can. Actually I think he's right,
because I'm a miser. You waste a bit of asparagus
if you do that. I think if you could just
cut it with a knife, probably a centimeter, but you
just cut the first one and you see where it's hard,
(08:48):
and depending on how fresh it is, you can go
further down the spear. So just cut the first one,
maybe eat a little bit raw, and see if it's
still nice or not, and then you're away. He wasted
than as possible to pay.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
In the River Cafee kitchen, we we snap the asparagus
at the natural snapping point, don't we, And that's what
everyone's taught to do. That's just the kind of house style.
Speaker 5 (09:10):
So sometimes when I see that happening these days, I
tell them not to because I think that you do
just you lose.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
When they're in their peak.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
You can eat the whole of the Have.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
You ever been in a situation where you're talking and whatever?
Certainly I have, and then I eat the whole asparagus,
and I look at everybody else's plate. I've always left
the plate is full of asparagus. You're embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
You're embarrassed. Actually the other way around. They're embarrassed. They're
thinking I could have.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Had more ers. It's alway asparagus. So what else do
you feel?
Speaker 8 (09:52):
Well?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
What else did he have? Asparagus? Ice cream? Maybe we
better go to that valley in Massachusetts and see what
that tastes like.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
You don't like asparagus served with the main course, that's
one of.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Our Yeah, I never use asparagus as a vegetable with something.
I love asparagus with risotto or in pasta, But you're
quite right, I would never have it as.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
When you sometimes get the the coal on the red
phone asparagus on dover soul, and you're like that definitely, will.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You know?
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Because there's some things that are just house rules that
we all bye by. Not that you couldn't have asparagus
as a vegetable, but we don't serve it as a
vegetable as a side dish. Do we serve it as
a as its own thing.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I'm really loving the asparagus that we've done a lot
this year with either anchovy butter or bottargat butter, because
I love butter. Also, I like butter when it isn't melted,
but it's just melts from the heat, especially in the
whitest sparagus. I like it.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So I like the fonder I liked, which is a
rich dish where you have we make a sauce from
crumb fresh and egg yolks and parmesan and cook it
over a bamerie. It goes thick and it just tastes
like a cheesy, creamy sauce. Yeah, and it is. It's
quite decadent. You could have that as a meal. It's
(11:26):
it's really nice. I was having that every day for
the week before.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
And this time of the year, like when it's a
bit sunnier, I actually quite like eating this sparagus.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
You know, it's lovely hot fresh when it's just.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
Come out the oven or just come out the off
the grill or whatever. But I also like it when
it's cooled down, you know, when it's cold, particularly the whitestparagus.
I think the flavor comes out more as it gets
as it cools down a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I was going to go on to white versus green asparagus,
What are your feelings about that?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I reckon white atparagus is an acquired taste. I've just
come back from Switzer actually, and they had massive bundles
of it in the in the market, like for nine
euros for huge buns of white esparagus. And I cooked
a load of it the other night actually, and my
daughter just couldn't eat it. It was so bitter, and
I was like that I really cooked in salted water.
(12:18):
But it was so delicious. But I thought for a
younger palette, maybe it's a harder because.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
I really discovered it when we were living in Paris,
and once we discovered white asparagus all we wanted to eat.
We would bring it back to London to bring to
friends or to the kids, and they didn't like it
at all.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It's white asparagus, the burgundy of asparagus, because it seems
like it's quite a bit more high brow than green.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
It's like it's like a completely different thing, isn't it.
We quite often have green asparagus and whitespagus after each
other on the menu, and really they are just completely
I actually I have done it this evening. They're completely different.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
I don't like to mix them.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
On the same pate. Okay, thanks, that was a great question,
and come and see us soon. Hi, Ruthy. This is
Jen from New York City.
Speaker 9 (13:06):
I'm actually a personal chef myself, so I really really
love the recipes and the guests, and I love the
whole conversation. Is there a guest that you've always wanted
to have on the show that you just can't get
because of timing scheduling. I'd love to know who your
white whale is.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Thanks so much. Well, I'm going to say something because
I have been asked this question before, and I suppose
if there was one guest that I could have, it
would be my husband, Richard Rogers, because I'll start to cry.
But he died before we came up with the podcast,
so he never was and I think it had been amazing,
(13:46):
don't you that, Richard on because he would have talked
about he had a great childhood, he grew up with
Lawrence and then he came to London. And you know,
the podcast is really about stories, and so I think
you would have had a lot of stories about living
in Paris and having an Italian mother who is a
great cook. And he never cooked himself, but he was
(14:07):
a great eater and he loved eating in the River Cafe.
Kind of we made the River Cafe for him because
he couldn't work without having lunch, and so we brought
lunch to the office in sense that we put a
restaurant right near the office. So I think it would
have been great. I would have also loved to have
had Rose as a guest, and she would have been
(14:28):
frightfully honest and would have been very direct and again,
stories to tell. But whenever I hear about somebody coming
out of think, oh, that's a good idea. They would
be great, let's have that person. So a lot of
my guests are slightly older. I realized that too, that
there is something about life and stories that come through age.
(14:50):
But you know, I've also had very young people who
are funny, and yeah, I'm just always waiting for the
next person imagine a state bottled olive oil chosen and
bottled for the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month.
Our subscription is available for six or twelve months, with
(15:13):
each oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying
with each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some
River Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone
you really care for them with the gift. Visit our
website shop the Rivercafe dot co UK to place your
order now.
Speaker 10 (15:35):
Hello Ruthie, I'm a massive fan down in Sydney, Australia.
In the past few years, I've become a massive fan
of Booya bass and any bisc based dishes. I've tried
a few times to make a really good stop to
use in my recipes, but have always failed. I suspect
I'm cooking my brawn heads as we call them here,
(15:58):
not shrimp a bit too long. Do you have any
tips on making a really good shrimp or prawn stock?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Thank you? Okay, over to you.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
We've actually been doing quite a bit of this the
last kind of year. One of the other head chefs
lies there is a big fan of bisk type stocks
and you.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Know when I make them.
Speaker 5 (16:22):
I actually be honest, it's not something I do at home,
but yeah, roasting the bones or the heads or frying
them in the pan, having quite a lot of them
to water or wine or whatever you're using. Instead of
putting in cold water, maybe put in try putting in
some ice cubes so that it's the thing that when
(16:44):
she mentions cooking it for a long time, that's right.
Boiling for a long time doesn't help a bisk, but
bringing it up over a long time to boiling point
or just you know thereabouts definitely helps. So yeah, cooking
it initially quite slowly and then not overdoing it is
really my advice.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
We put quite a lot of vegetables alongside it, don't
We don't just do the shells. We do like a
full base of things like onion, garlic, celery, red chiliese tomatoes, fennel, seeds,
parsi stalks, bay leaves, whatever, white wine like you name
it isn't it probably you know, there's a lot of
(17:23):
other aromatics going in that. Some of our chefs make
amazing bisks that you just think we should just be
soup because they're so good. Because we don't really use
biscus us as a pass the sauce or but not
as a lovely fish soup. Well we do sometimes, but
not as often as we might. But it's all about
(17:44):
the aromatics as well, isn't it. And getting the balance right,
like not too much onion, not too much of anything.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's really rewarding thing to make.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
It's a real chefy kind of balance, you know, to
get those things right, you know, it's kind of old
school cooking.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
It also makes such a difference to the risotta. You
can taste. It just tastes so much whether the beski
has been cooked too long and it's too strong. But
then also in a fish resutta, I prefer to have
whatever fish is put in teeny tiny and maybe not
too much of it. And so the bisk really plays
a role, I think in terms of the taste rather
(18:22):
than the actual fish that you're eating. But then in
the River cafe, we don't boil our stalks for very long,
do it. We don't make those kind of long cook
stocks that you often see. I remember the first time
I went into a restaurant kitchen and I just you know,
they had special parts of whether they stock in the
equipment and it just was cooking for so long and
(18:45):
it was so dark. And I think all our stocks
are kind of uniquely very light.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Don't you make fish stock, We don't always just use
fish bones. You know, you can sometimes use fish in
it as well.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Which.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Sorry, fish stock, they're unusual. But if you make a
fish stock, you don't have to just use fish.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Boat white fish.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And you can change the sweetness or the minerality by
if you put carrot in or onion and things like
this is it sweetness, whereas if you have less of
that and more other flavors like fennel, and they can
get minerally flavors.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And just so you can taste. Sometimes you can just
taste that taste of a stock that's been cooked too
long and it is too intrusive.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I really agree.
Speaker 5 (19:36):
I think chefs that come to work here they're often
surprised that you know, you say, you know, ten o'clock.
They're like, what would you like? What would you like
me to do? Make a risotte? First of all, put
some stock on. You know that it would ordinarily they'd
be made at least the day before and in the fridge,
but that's just not how we work.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
We do sometimes make chicken stock in the wood even
though overnight.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Oh that's true. That's really good.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
If you're going to make a lot of a chicken
stock at home, and you didn't have chicken stock, and
you would.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Probably use like a quarter of the cube, and you
just a tiny bit, you wouldn't use anything. You wouldn't
any if you could do.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Nothing exactly, you don't have to use because.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
We'd be lying to say I'd be lying to say
I make chicken stock at home to make risotto.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
That would be a lie.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
So I want you to lie on this.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
Chef, but I would be I would be lying. I
didn't make chicken stock every week at home?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Do you make it every week?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I always make This is the working mother versus a
working father.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Thank you, Julie, and I think our next question is
from Glasgow.
Speaker 11 (20:44):
My name is Sean.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I'm not a bad coop, but I can never get
or pushing rate.
Speaker 11 (20:50):
Can you maybe run through some tips or help?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Thank you you Joseph. How about you?
Speaker 5 (20:59):
I don't know like this is a classic like it?
I do like it a lot, and I think it's
something that can't be bad. However, runny or you know,
and I've gone through loads of different ways to make it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Frying the aubergine.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
You know at home probably more often, might roast it instead,
But I just think having all nice ingredient it's really
boring answer, but I think the most best way is
just to have all the ingredients as nice as you can.
The best tomatoes, tomato sauce, really nice mozzarella. Doesn't have
to be buffalo mozzarella or anything, but something really nice
mozzarella and parmesan.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Maybe cook the tomatoes long enough, drink he used cheddar.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
No, I love it, don't you?
Speaker 8 (21:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Really, I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I think I came to it rather late in life,
but I like it, and I have a friend who
makes it really well. I think that for me, the
thing I feel really strongly about obortunes is that there's
nothing worse than an undercooked obrain. You have an undercooked
other vegetable. But I think if it hasn't been fried
or cooked or that long enough so that you have
(22:07):
that difference between the aubergine and everything else that's in it,
then it loses its definition. And I definitely agree on
the watery bit. Watery tomato sauce isn't good in anything,
So when you cook the tomatoes. Tomatoes, tomatoes, you before
you start cooking, you want to try and get as
much water out of them, if they're either fresh or
(22:29):
if they're in a in a tin or in a jar,
because it's just water really, and so I think you
want to get rid of that and then just cook
them slowly until the oil almost comes to the top
of the sauce, so you really see the oil at
the top, and then you have a nice thick tomato sauce.
Speaker 11 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
And the other thing that might make it water easier
the mozzarella it's been sitting in, yeah, water, So I
would normally I take it out. Either I buy a
specifically a hard mozzarella that you would make pizza with.
I think that's the best for parmeagina or else if
it's you know, very soft, bring it out of the water,
cut it into bits, and let it sit in the
calender and drain the water liquid away and.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
The abergines because nothing anti water water us You've got
is that, you know, very often we put those roasted
aubergines in a dish, there's always that liquid. Yeah, So
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
But also if you let it sit for a bit,
at the end the water will probably absorb in at
some point.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
That's you think you can.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
Tell if the abergine's cooked, Yeah, sort of if you
push down the sides of the abogine to push together.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So if it's the abergines are not cooked enough, you
can't sort of squat between your fingers and we.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Do when we do those slow roasted aubergines. And then
you open one and if it looks all white inside
and it's side, you just don't want to go near it. Yeah,
you know, it's really that would be something that I
would really watch out for. Here at Ruthie's Table four,
we have something exciting to tell you. Our new substeck
has just launched. You will find all kinds of extra
(24:09):
material from the River Cafe, including recipes, our latest news,
and bonus content from the podcast. If you enjoy listening
to this series as much as I enjoy talking with
our guests, visit the Rivercafe dot substeck and subscribe. See
you there, hi, Ruthy, Jean and Joseph.
Speaker 12 (24:32):
I am going to be going to Florence in a
few weeks and then to the Ligraan coast. I have
been to Italy a few times and have some family there,
but I haven't spent a ton of time in this
particular region, and I've been so inspired by the way
you talk about going to Italy to educate yourselves firsthand
about the food, and I am just wondering if you
(24:56):
have any suggestions for things to seek out in particular
in this area and maybe things you really love about
the region, foods or places or things that I should
make sure to experience. I'm not a professional chef, but
I love to cook and eat and I love to
listen to this podcast every week. So thank you so
(25:17):
much and hope to be back at the River Cafe.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Maybe on this trip team.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
We could do a whole podcast on that.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I think we're each going to give you one place
if we can, and mine would be to go to
a town called Vernatza, and that's on the Chinquitera, the
Five Towns. It's a town that we've been going to forever.
My son was married there. We have a very strong link,
and one of the strong links we have is with
(25:44):
a treacherya called Johnny Francie, and it's in the square.
It's all local. The wine is local, the olive oil
is local, the basil comes from the hills and the
fish from the sea. And I think that if I
were you, I would have everything with pesto. Try the
trinetti with pesto. I'd have the minnestrone with pesto, and
(26:05):
then great grilled fish that's just come from the sea.
It's kind of my ideal meal. I would go in
the evening because for nuts to like many towns now
on the coast, it's so crowded during the day, but
in the evening it empties out. And just tell them
that he sent you and have a wonderful meal.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
They're going to be like all the rest of the list.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
And if you're going to get if you're going on
the way so you're getting the train or in that direction,
then you should stop in Recco, a town sort of
halfway between there and Jennifer, and have for catchur ereco
in any of the bakeries. I am nuts for the
bakeries in the Gura and that you know, incredibly thin
type of for catcher with cheese inside is not to
(26:51):
be missed.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Do you have a go to.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Would you in Florence or if you're if you're in Florence,
you I would say, you just want to sit in
the cafe on the main square and look at the yeah,
and just have a cornetti and a cappuccino and watch
people go by and just soak up the kind of
(27:16):
the feeling of the city, which I think once you
feel that, the food tastes even better, doesn't it. Like
you can recommend ten restaurants in Florence of the you know,
but the actual the culture of the people having a
perativo before dinner and walking around and just just absorbing it,
just sitting there and smelling the air and hearing the
(27:37):
bells of the church and going to the your fitzy
gallery and just absorbing. Florence's just such a beautiful city.
It's packed, isn't it. But you know, there's obviously Panzano,
but it's Panzano on the tourist trail too much. Maybe
everyone goes there.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
It's not a good recommendation. It's not a bad recommendation.
It's a great recommendation. But they'd probably be like, oh
my god, another person recommends Planzano.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
That's all right, give us a break, the tourists.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
The mayor.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Actually I'm on the.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Payroll, okay, thank you. So much, have a great trip
and enjoy both places. Florence, Renazza and Pensana.
Speaker 11 (28:15):
Hi Ruthian team. I'm looking forward to visiting the River
Cafe as soon as possible from the culinary capital of Ireland, Cork.
My question is the River Cafe is so entwined with
Italy and all the things wonderful and wonderfully Italian. But
has there ever been a time where you thought, maybe
we'll extend to a slightly different cuisine to bring something
(28:40):
new in, maybe a spin off in a different discipline.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Different discipline, maybe Chinese colly we've in just twenty five
years and doctrinated.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
That's like, how can we think of something else?
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I think we're still What we find is that after
thirty eight years over the River Cafe, we still have
so much to learn from Italian cooking. Although I do
have to say that we do love cooking and eating
other cultures. You know, we love food from Indian food, Chinese, Thai,
(29:16):
I love Mexican food, so we're constantly eating and tasting.
But I think that for us, our language is Italian
and we probably will keep speaking it.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
When I go out to me, I often go somewhere
that maybe Japanese or something, just to get sort of
a palette change, isn't it. But the me and Joseph
went through a phase of watching people making sober noodles
and we were like, just, you know, should we follow
a YouTube as hed Chest of the River Cafe and
try and make soutorials.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
You've seen the one where they teach you to make
five sauces or something, and I don't know, for some reason,
it's on my Instagram constantly had this guy saying this
is how you make them week days. I look at it,
I think, wow, a couple.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Of what whisks it's done.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But we do because he always Because you spend a
lot of time in Paris, you you know, there's always
that thing of the love of French food and the classics,
the kind of classic culinary tradition, and sometimes we would
imagine what we'd cook if we had the River Cafolic
Cafe as a French restaurant, and what we'd cook and
taking the same approach to the French that would be.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
You know, as you remember times and after service we've
sat around and talked about our favorite French food and
there is an ongoing conversation you had Canal and we
had had estra girl and the garlic and what about
a souffle? And you know, we start talking that way
and then as you said, I do the same. I
cook the same food at home that I cook here.
(30:48):
But I love eating out and having another culture's food
in the restaurant. That's what I'm going for. Yeah, and
now we have our last question from Caitlin, Sean and Joseph.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
A leader once told me that they hire for their
team based on the two c's culture and competence. How
do you know an individual is going to be a
culture fit for your team? What competencies are non negotiable?
And does one see outrank the other. I'm a longtime listener,
(31:21):
hopeful future diner, and I look forward to hearing your
insight on this because you're obviously master curators of talent.
Thank you from Caitlin in New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Thank you, Caitlyn, over to you too.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
I think the thing when you're employing a chef is
do you quite quickly get a feel over a conversation
if you'd like them to come and spend a day
with you. And I think everyone does come and spend it,
you know, at least today and then over the day
you get a really nice you know, it's a lovely way.
I mean to sort of conduct an interview or a trial,
(31:56):
not just with Sean and I as the you know,
executive chefs, but we use the whole team.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So you're right. That does speak to the.
Speaker 5 (32:04):
Culture of the place, and I think the culture is
probably more important than there than anything else.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
You know.
Speaker 5 (32:10):
We people come to work here and they stay for
years and years, so we really like them to fit.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It was funny because we'll talk about that todayt lunchtime,
where we were saying, how sometimes you interview people and
they say they they haven't got much experience. You can,
we don't need much experience, will teach or everything you
need to know. But some people like I love cooking
at home, Okay, Like some people are lawyers and they're like,
(32:36):
I want to be a chef because I love cooking
at home. You're like, maybe stick to your like legal
professional job and cook at home because being a chef
is it's a way of life, isn't it. It's a
kind of funny game. I think, having been a chef
for thirty years, I think most of your friends will
be chefs. You wor at nights weekends, you stand up
all day, So you look for someone that's kind of
(32:58):
going to know that they're most likely kind of have
less nights at home than more, you.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
Know, and really enjoys that as well. You know, you
can quickly see sometimes We were actually talking about a
boy that came to do work experience from a school
last year, and he was so clearly, you know, a
natural fit in a kitchen and liked being in there
and standing up and enjoyed all that. That suited us,
but it doesn't suit everyone.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I also think that it's really important nowadays more than
ever that is a very respectful working environment, and I
think obviously that comes from Rose and Ruth, you know,
as you know, the pioneers of that kind of kitchen.
Being able to run a kitchen that's like with what
you would say, hope rather than fear, and a kitchen
that's built on good working hours, really nice conditions, great ingredients.
(33:45):
All lends itself to a really kind working environment where
people are very respectful to each other. And we are
very hardline on that kind of behavior. So if there's
any non negotiables, it's people that come in having maybe
worked in aggressive kitchen, and you can see that they
might bring some of that with them, and you have
to nip it in the butt or they're not going
to fit in. And you can quite clearly see if
(34:07):
someone comes with that, you can say, you know, this
isn't that kind of kitchen. So if you want to
bring banter, innuendo, any of that aggressive behavior, it doesn't
fit in here. And so that's probably our hard line.
And as a result, it's just a really nice place
to work generally.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
And also I'm not incredibly superstitious, but I think people
find us to you know, so often have been there
over there twenty years and more that we've worked here
together and be like, oh my gosh, how did this other?
You know, like they're just a perfect fit. Where did
they come from? Literally all over the world, somehow they
seem to find us.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So thank you. This is a great time spent with you.
I think you answered questions from people listening and hearing
your responses. You as answered questions that maybe I would
ask for. Maybe you answered things in a way that
I was expected and unexpected. So as we started this
program saying we questions, we do and thank you so much.
Speaker 11 (35:08):
Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership
with Montclair
Host
Ruth Rogers
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