December 8, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of Sacred Lessons, host Mike de la Rocha sits down with world-champion hoop dancer, filmmaker, and cultural ambassador Eric Michael Hernandez. Together, they explore how hoop dance became a path of resilience, healing, and cultural belonging. From growing up Lumbee and Chicano in Southern California to touring the world with Cirque du Soleil, Eric shares how movement reconnected him to his ancestors and purpose. He also reflects on his award-winning film Courage, a reclamation of identity and family legacy that continues to inspire. This conversation weaves themes of masculinity, Indigenous visibility, and the courage to heal generational wounds.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What are the cycles fathers passed down that son so
they're left to heal. What if being a man was
about holding it all together but learning how to let go.
This is a space where men speak truth and find
the power to heal and transform.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Welcome to Sacred Lessons.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Movement is ancestral, memory, dance is dialogue, and our cultural
practices and traditions are our lifelines. For many Indigenous and
Chicano communities, culture is everything. It's the medicine we carry,
the lessons ingrained in our bodies, and the blueprint for
our way forward. Welcome to Sacred Lessons. I'm Mike Dela Rocha.
(00:44):
Today's guest bridges worlds derived from Lumbee ancestry and Higana
roots through the circle of hoop dance and the lens
of film. Eric Michael Hernandez is a world champion hoop dancer,
culture ambassador, tedex speaker, and filmmaker who has transformed the
hoop into a canvas of identity, healing, and representation. Eric's
(01:07):
story isn't only about the hoop dance. It's about family.
It's about a father who shaped him in both spoken
and unspoken ways for so many men. Our relationship with
our father is where we first learned about manhood, strength
and vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's so good to see you, Eric. Thank you for
being a part of this whole journey. And I wanted
to take it to where we first met. At the
Risawa Festival. We had crazy experiences. I want you to
briefly quickly talk about the town Poet and the Black
Bear and late night pizza.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
First of all, thanks for having me. Congratulations all this man.
So what we watched the We watched the film, We
went to an incredible events and then after we went
for some late night pizza, apparently the most popular pizza
in town. Because we were there was a line all
the way up the stairs. You guys got in line,
(02:09):
you went up. I ended up hanging out outside for
a little bit with a special surprise guest. Yeah. Ran
into the town Poet and just he basically was begging
me to bring him back down a slice and he
was just selling me on that, and I said, well,
what you got, man? I heard you know, you're the
town poet. Give me something. You want to slice pizza?
Let me hear something. And he laid it down. He
(02:30):
gave me like a whole two minute poet poem, and
then as he's doing his poem, a bear walks by,
straight up bear, a full on black bear, right in
the middle of town. Pulled out my phone and captured
it and that was unbelievable. And then I went up
to meet you guys with the pizza, and you guys
(02:51):
are like, oh, where were you? What was going on?
And I was like, oh, I was just down there
with a town poet and we were eating our pizza.
And then we left the shop and I was like, oh, yeah,
there was a too, and we were like, you're crazy.
And I showed you guys the.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Video, showed us the video man.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So that was a good time. And that festival is
really special, very really special for community and the Latino community,
and it was. It was an incredible time up there.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well big ops to uh Monica Ramirez and the whole team.
But what brought us together was this remarkable film called
Courage that you wrote and directed. But before even getting there,
I want the listeners to know, like, how did you
even fall into hoop dancing? Like what was that calling?
(03:36):
What was that kind of story that brought you there.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah. So on my mother's side, I come from the
Lumbee tribe from North Carolina. My father's from East Los Angeles,
so we grew up in La.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
My mom's a twin and my mom's twin married a
man named Terry Godell who's from the Yakama to Lalup tribe,
Washington State, and he was a hoop dancer. He was
a nine time world champion hoop dancer. And when my
parents separated, I was about eleven years old, my mom
started to send me more and more to my uncle
(04:11):
Terry as like a father figure. And he used this
dance called the hoop dance to kind of fother me
and to teach me traditional ways and to teach me
how to become a man. There's a lot of stories
and wisdom inside of this dance, and he taught me
(04:31):
and my cousin Michael, and we just kept dancing and
we fell in love with it. At first, I didn't
really gravitate towards it, you know, I wanted to be
more like my dad. Actually, my dad was a professional
football player and he was my hero. And now I
have my uncle stepping in trying to play dad and
I'm like, you're not my dad, you know. And it
(04:53):
wasn't until I realized that that dance and that tradition
was actually something that allowed me to share a very
unique story and a unique side of myself in the
world that I was living in amongst my peers. And
(05:14):
it gave me an opportunity to show them something that
I didn't think that they would understand, you know, and
show them these traditions, and I just fell in love
with it. Yeah. Man.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And so you're half Lumby, half Chicano growing up in
Los Angeles and we have this conversation about we're all indigenous,
a lot of us ma's Chicano's what have you? What
was that tension like and were you were you resistant
to like showing your school, your friends the dance and
(05:48):
that part of who you are.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, And you know, on my Mexican side with my father,
culture wasn't too present, right, you know, even my grandparents.
You know, it was more about fitting into society. It
was more about speaking English and you know, blending in
and wanting to be you know, just mixed in with
(06:16):
the capitalist society, right. And uh, as a young boy
being in school and in high school. I wanted to
thrive in sports. I wanted to, you know, be a
star basketball player like my two older brothers were. And
the hoop dance, the idea that I would ever show
anybody this hoop dance was just like terrifying, you know,
(06:40):
especially as you know, a freshman in high school or
a sophomore, you just kind of want to fit in,
right uh And and that wasn't the way to do it.
You know, I wasn't going to show up and use
these hoops. You know, I thought that they would call
these hula hoops or call my regelia a costume, and
I think they would understand. And I learned later on
(07:02):
that it's because they don't understand that I now have
a very clear purpose, and that's to create that understanding.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Well, take me back, though you're fourteen thirteen freshman in
high school. That takes a lot of kind of internal
strength to be like, I'm going to step outside of
just fitting in, which is what the society wants us
to do, right, assimilate and be that.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
But what was it? Was it your.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Uncle's guidance or what was it that gave you like
the ump to do that?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Though?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You know what, man, I got cut from the team,
and everything that I thought that I wanted to be,
everything I was chasing, had just got pulled from under me.
I didn't make the basketball team. I didn't even feel
like I fit into my own family with my brothers,
And I'm like, man, who am I? What do I
(07:53):
do if I don't get to go practice and play sports?
What do I even do? I was lost.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I was lost.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I hit like a rock bottom. I didn't even want
to go to school, like I didn't want to be
around people. And I think at that very low point,
I found myself connecting to something deeper, which was my culture.
(08:22):
And you know, I think in those super low points,
a lot of times, in our ceremonies and in practices,
we create those environments for ourselves to be able to
have those enlightening moments. And I think that as a kid,
I had that moment where I just I didn't know
(08:43):
which way to turn, I didn't know what else to do,
and that hoop dance, it was almost like it was
calling me and I denied it it first. And I'm
lucky that I had a mentor, which was my uncle,
and you know, he led me in the right direction.
But I didn't want it, and eventually I think I
(09:07):
just realized, you know what, my strength, my way in
this world, my way at school, my way in high school,
is not going to be blending in fitting in. I'm
never gonna be as good as them playing their game.
Let me find my own lane and let me play
(09:28):
my own game. And for me, that was hoop dancing,
and it was the scariest thing at the time, but
it was the greatest decision, most courageous decision I've ever
made in my life, and it really changed the whole
trajectory of my path.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I just want to affirm that because I know folks,
grown men that have difficulty doing what you just said
as a young thirteen fourteen year old, and so one
just humbly thank you for doing that. He also says
something earlier about your uncle's guidance and mentorship and you
(10:05):
use the word father, father figure, and like, hey man,
you're not my father, but you are my uncle. What
was that relationship between you and your dad and your uncle?
Was it copacetic? Was it difficult? I mean, obviously you
took stuff from both, but what was that Like.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, my dad didn't understand at the time, what I
was doing. He thought it was a waste of time
to drive three hours on a Saturday to a pow
wow and go hoop dance. You know, he was kind
of like, oh, well are you are you getting paid
or you know what's going on here? What? How come
you're going off? You know, you got you got better
(10:43):
things you could be doing. And him and my uncle,
you know, they went to college together. It was my
mom and her twin sister. My mom met my dad
in college, and my dad's twin met my uncle, Terry
in college. It was the four of them. They were
a bunch in college and they were close, but you know,
(11:04):
they had their differences. My dad, my dad never fully
supported the time that I spent until he eventually saw it.
Until he eventually saw it in person, I think I
showed him something that he didn't even realize was a thing.
(11:29):
And yeah, I think I opened up a piece of
my own father. You know, I was able to teach
him something as a young kid. And I see my
dad as somebody who may have, you know, needed to
reflect and go through healing on his own right that
(11:50):
he may not have done the work on. You know,
he was such a successful athlete and he loved talking
about his stories. Still to this day. My dad's that guy,
you know. Oh yeah, Colorado State nineteen seventy six. Yeah,
three interceptions in a single game.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's like, I know, Dad, you told me yesterday and
the day before and right He's like, yeah, but you
got to remember it, you know. I'm like, we know, Dad,
And so when I talk about hoop dancing and that
vulnerability of getting on stage and arts and expressing yourself,
it just wasn't his world at all. So yeah, there
(12:31):
definitely was a.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, let me ask you from you know that dance
is a is a ceremonial dance. It's a sacred dance,
and it's vulnerable, like you said, which is aware that
men don't often use that much. Did you see your
dad try to figure out like who he was culturally
(12:53):
from that from the moment he first saw you dance
on that stage or did he start to be like
a little bit more open with you or like what
was that done?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I think that even just to hear him say good job,
even just to you know, hear him kind of clap
and give one of those oh okay, that was cool.
You know that for me was huge, and seeing that,
did he open up culturally? I don't think that he's
(13:25):
had the exposure to his own culture to be able
to open up. Even my two older brothers that were
a little bit older when my parents separated, they didn't
get the exposure to my uncle's teachings. My two older
brothers don't hoop dance. They aren't necessarily as involved in
(13:48):
Indian country, in this community. I was blessed enough to
be exposed to it through my uncle and to be
interested in it. So I think my dad, although he
saw it, I don't think that he wasn't inspired or
(14:09):
you know, to go deeper into his roots or anything.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
But it obviously changed your career in trajectory because from
that moment of I don't want to say bloshemy, but
that moment of like remembrance of who you are, then
all of a sudden, you're doing a ted talk, You're
going on tour with circ Desolet for almost ten years,
and then you're bringing that tradition to others that may
(14:35):
have never known it, like your dad, right, like almost
that full circle.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, So what was that whole? What was that journey like? Then?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Obviously you the who transformed your life, and obviously you're
transforming others through the dance.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
How did that all go down?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I mean, I think just like anything as an individual,
like you have a vision, you can see something, and
a lot of times the people around you can't see
that vision, right, and it's kind of just like just
hold on, just wait, just watch, and you take the
steps that you take and things start to happen and
they start to see your vision come to life and
(15:13):
then they go, oh, okay. So I think that as
I started to dance as a kid, it was kind
of like, okay, what do you you know playing with
these hoops? Yeah, and then Cirque de Silea called me
and said, hey, we have a show called Totem and
we'd love you to come be the main character and
hoop dance all around the world. And I remember even
(15:37):
one of my older brothers, Sean, after about a year
of being on tour with Cirque Silat, he says, hey,
they want to teach me how to hoop dance, you know.
And I started working with my brother a little bit
and teaching him how to hoop dance, and he gained
an interest of it and wanted to get more involved.
(15:59):
And then when I did my TED talk, that gave
me a chance to not just dance and perform, but
it gave me a chance to use my voice and
to tell my personal story, just like we're doing here
right now. And that was the first time that anybody
had ever really heard me talking that way. I was
(16:19):
always kind of talking through my dance all those years,
and then going on that ted X stage, I was
able to formulate the message that I wanted to share,
which was my journey of growing up as an urban
native and connecting to the dance. And there's such a
(16:42):
message in there that is not just particularly cultural, particularly
about the hoop dance, but it's just a general message
of having the courage to just tap into that authentic
side of yourself, you know, to let go of what
you think the world is going to think of you,
(17:04):
to let go of trying to blend in and actually
digging deep and doing that work and saying who am
I and what message do I have to share with
the world. What is the light that I can give
to this world? And when I talk or I perform,
I'm using the hoop dance and I'm using my story
as the vehicle right, But there's a message in there
(17:26):
that I helpe resonates, you know, with anybody's story.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Which is the title of the film.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Courage, like you just said, the courage to tell your
story as medicine to help somebody else, or the courage
to just be yourself in a world that wants you
to be someone other than who you are. And so
I saw the film. I felt honored to see the film.
But can you talk about that, Like, obviously it's another
vehicle to get your voice out and inspire others, but
(18:00):
talk about courage.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, man, making a film. I think everybody at some
point should make a biopic about themselves. Talk about inner
work and healing and vulnerability. You know, getting on stage
and hoop dancing is one thing. Getting on stage and speaking,
But to sit down and write a script about your
(18:23):
life and understand those story arcs, and understand the antagonist
and the protagonists in your life, and to tell that
story and to sit in the theater and watch it
with those people who are in the story, and then
they start to know that that's how you wrote about them,
and you start to just heal from whatever it is
(18:48):
you know that you may have been carrying and it's
just been such an incredible process of creating this film.
It's been resonating with audiences all over I really wanted
to create a film that depicted Indigenous people in the
modern day in an urban environment. I wanted to get
(19:10):
away from cowboys and Indians and western and these John
Ford movies where the natives the bad guy, and wanted
to create I wanted to tell a story that I
knew how to tell because it was my experience, and
I knew that there's a large demographic of urban natives.
You know, eighty percent of Natives live off of reservations,
(19:32):
live in cities, and I wanted to tell one of
those stories. And it's been It's been a really truly
rewarding process. I've had the chance to share it all
across Indian country. We've gone to like over twenty different reservations.
And at first I was like, you know, is this
(19:54):
going to resonate with natives on the reds? Are they
going to are they going to be like wait, what
is this? And it has been. It has been because
that message is digestible, you know, by all different walks
of life, and it really has given me a tool
to be able to uplift our people, to uplift the
(20:14):
next generation. And it's it's just been an incredible journey
so far. And the team, the team building that it
requires to bring together a project like this is probably
one of my favorite things. Too. It was really important
that we had as many Indigenous people as we could
involved in the film, and we truly brought together a
(20:35):
cast of Indigenous excellence and and and we're able to
tell that story in an authentic way.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
And one of the things I love is that your
uncle actually plays your uncle in the film. Yes, and
then the person that plays you is the national youth
champion of hoop dancing, So you're bridging generations in real
time on a screen, but also in life. So what
was the calculation for that? Like why did you decide
(21:03):
to go that way like your real uncle? Like was
I a cognizant thing or you just said, Hey, I'm
going to do this because I need someone that can
be as badass as me and dancing or like what
was the whole thing?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
When COVID hit and I lost my job with circ
Disilay and I ended up doing my ted talk. Yeah,
I also started to get into acting. I started to
train a bit, learning how to break down scripts, you know,
learning different techniques on set, and I became really passionate
for acting. And as I was writing this script, I
(21:36):
wanted to give my chance also, you know, an opportunity
to be on screen and act. I wanted to play
my uncle. That was the original goal. And about two
weeks before we shot, I prayed about it and prayed
about it, and I had to just take my ego
out of it and ask myself, what's the best choice.
(22:00):
Do I play my uncle or do we need my
uncle to come and play himself and give us that
elder those elder vibes, you know, And that was the
best choice. And I decided not to put myself in
the film. You know, here I was already having the
opportunity to tell my story. I wanted to focus on directing.
(22:24):
And I brought him in and he was a natural.
We've always grown up. We've always told him that he
gives like he gives like Denzel Denzel vibes. Yeah, he's
a native Denzel and and he killed it man. And
then Mateo Ulaberry, who's the three time teen World hoop
Dance champion. I've been watching him grow up and dance.
It's a very small world hoop dancers. We meet once
(22:46):
a year in Phoenix, Arizona at the Herd Museum hoop
dance competition. And Mateo also is half Mexican. Yeah, yeah,
and uh, I felt like he be perfect for the role.
He was very timid, very shy, never acted before.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And I thought to myself, Okay, I can get an
incredible hoop dancer, which is Mateo who's never acted, or
I can try to find an experienced actor and try
to teach them how to hoop dance. I was like, Nah,
you can't really just teach the hoop dance like that,
and the hoop dancing has to be great in this film.
I had an incredible mentor. Her name was Lehia Via Lobos.
(23:27):
She was one of the writers on Coco, and she
helped me a lot with writing writing the script. And
she also told me, she said, what's gonna make this
film is the hoop dancing has to be incredible.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Right, and it is.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, Mateo killed it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, let me ask you something.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, we live in a world that wants us
to believe in binaries, right, and so when you sit
down and do script, you have a protagonist and antagonist.
Like you said, I oftentimes think like I'm both right,
I'm my own protagonists and antagonist. But in this when
you talked earlier about your uncle and your dad, who
played what roles and were they shifting and changing and
(24:10):
after they saw it, how was the reaction.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
My dad was the antagonist in the story and my
uncle was the protagonist. And when they saw it, my dad,
you know, he hesitated to say anything at first, but
you know then he he owned it, you know, and
(24:37):
he said, you know, I see, I see, and I
think that he's I was able to talk to him
through this film, and that was really powerful for me.
And you know what's crazy is I didn't even intend
to do that. As I was writing the script and
as I was thinking of the story and the and
the challenges of the main character, I didn't plan on
(25:01):
targeting the father as the antagonist. But it just it
happened that way, and it was truth that came out subconsciously.
And my uncle loves seeing himself on camera, and I
love that we captured that of him. He had a
(25:23):
heart attack about a year and a half ago, and
it was really special to be able to put him
on camera and you know, immortalize him and put him
in this movie, capture his teachings. You know, he he's
one of the few hoop dancers that is known as
(25:43):
just carrying some of the deepest knowledge within the dance.
He's been dancing for fifty years. When he started dancing,
it was nearly a dying art. He's he's a big
part of the revival of this art form. So to
how Terry this legend and have Mateo the future and
(26:04):
me kind of in the middle directing it, it was
a dream come true to bring that hoop dance world
and hoop dance community and to tell my own story
using these incredible hoop dance figures.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Well, it's funny because.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Father figures, right, Terry, your dad father figures in some
respects of being a father figure for the young man
who played you. And even this whole podcast came about
because of the words unspoken between my father and I.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And it was the practice of the paper.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And the pen and writing writing out kind of my trauma,
really not knowing subconsciously like you like, oh man, this
is how my relationship really was. And my dad I
was actually running away from the complexity and the beauty
and the trauma and everything else. But I was able
to say things to my dad that I wasn't able
to say when he was alive through the book. But
(27:03):
with your uncle Terry and your dad, is there anything
that you want to tell him that you haven't through
the film or anything else that's left unspoken?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, you know, recently with my dad, this is something
that was never said growing up, never said until recently,
and even even now it's still you have to push it,
you have to push for it. But even just telling
my dad I love you, you know, when I'm with
(27:32):
him and I'm hanging out with him and he's and
he's leaving, he's getting this car to leave. Love your dad,
That for me is a huge step forward. And when
he hears this, you know, for me, I'm giving him
the permission to say I love you, son. And then
(27:59):
it'll which one time I'll see him, I'll say love you, Eric,
and it hits and it's like, love you Dad. And
we've started to create that exchange very recently, within the
last six months. And that's beautiful, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Mean interiotic because.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I would tell my dad I love you, Papa, right,
But it was hard for him to reply back, you know,
and so much of man, we just hold it in
because no one teaches us the language of love, and
so when you receive it, especially from a son, it's
hard to process, let alone like reply back, you know.
(28:44):
And so I just want to say, man, that's a
beautiful thing to like heal those cycles where you allowed
the space for you, not only to have a courage
to tell your dad, hey, I love your dad, for
him if he feel vulnerable enough to reply back and
say I love you too.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Eric, and then to say it first, that is profound.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
And it's like pulling teeth, I trust it is it
ain't you know you're gotta generate that out of thin
air because there's no energy towards it. No, it's not like,
oh you know, it's you got to create that.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And yeah, so what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Just like, why do you think it's so hard for
us men just to be like, you know, like I
always say, when I'm drunk with my brother or my friends,
all of a sudden, I love you, I love you more, No,
but I love you more. It's all just flowing obviously,
But why what are your thoughts? Why is it so
hard for US men to tell our fathers, let alone
(29:44):
our friends or family that we love them.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Man, that's that's a great question, that's not question.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
My experience with Circus LA being on tour with these artists.
I was one of forty seven artists in our show,
and I was one of two Americans in our show.
Everybody else was European and Russian and Chinese and different cultures.
Seventeen different languages spoken backstage, and they all embrace one
(30:16):
another in different ways, different cultures. I got a chance
to witness that and be a part of that, and
you know, be around the Russians, who you can't really
get much of a smile out of them. A lot
of times they may even, you know, tell you a joke,
but they're still serious. And that's just their cultural you know.
(30:37):
Being when we were in Japan, we were performing, and
the Japanese, you know, even as much as they love
the performance, for them, it's respectful. They don't want to
clap because they're scared they're going to make you have
a mistake on stage. So they're so respectful, and that's
how they show their love and respect. In Spain, they're
(30:57):
stomping their feet the whole show, and that's how they
showed their love and their support. I think growing up
the way I did with a father like mine and
brothers like mine, I think we just showed it. It's there,
it's deep in there, but we show it in different ways.
(31:18):
That doesn't always it's not clear enough, and it's not
it's not always felt because the person. I think it's
just the person doesn't know how to express how to
express it. And when you can, when you can express it,
(31:39):
you just give so much permission to the other person.
I was given so much permission on tour with Circusila,
being around these different cultures.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
One of my best friends was Massimiliano Medini from Italy.
Every time he saw me, you know, they you know,
big hug anda dah, you know. And I'd come home
from tour and see my brothers and be like I
didn't give him and they're like like you know, and
I'm like grabbing the back of their nag and it's like, well,
what's going on? And I just realized that, you know,
(32:11):
here it's different. I was raised different, yea, But I
realized I had an opportunity to have that impact on
my family about how to express love, how to show love.
I think that generation before us, just right, our fathers,
in that generation, their fathers, there was something there that
(32:36):
didn't make them feel like they were able to express that.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, I mean, I always say, may weelo. My grandfather
came as a breastsetto farm worker, and he came from Chiwawa,
Mexico to actually Oxnar, where I was born. But he
came in a cattle car and they sprayed them with DMT,
and for all intents and purposes, he was like an
indentured servant or a slave in Oxnard.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
They wouldn't let him out.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
He would work from beginning to end, so he was
beat down so any emotion feeling. So therefore my dad
never heard the words I love you, let alone a
hug or anything else. Of course, my compassion for my
father is like he's doing the best he can given
what was given to him. And then for our generation,
it's like knowing this history but also knowing that we
(33:22):
can give ourselves permission to then give for other people
the space to consider being more emotionally expressive or more
emotionally like vulnerable. That's where like the medicine lies. And
I feel like with you and the hoop dance. You're
inviting us into a ceremony that then these conversations can happen.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, you know, I mean you just said it.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Your brother wants to learn, and you know, millions of
people have seen you hoop in some shape or form,
whether it was on tour, whether it's the film, or
whether it was on Ted Talk. But I guess that's
kind of what one of my final questions really is,
what do you hope people get from your film? But
more than your film? Eric, like you from like you
(34:07):
know what I mean, like you like, I'm I'm I'm
already learning so many things in my mind, But what's
your message through your life and through the film.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
You know, I hope that it just unguards people. And
just whenever I dance, I realized that, you know, the
flashiness and the storytelling and the way that the hoops
move and the story that I'm telling As I dance,
(34:42):
people's hearts open up. And when I'm finished dancing, the
words that I speak after the dance are received so
much more than before I danced. Before I start dancing,
you know, there's a lot of times the audience is
kind of like all right, what's this guy gonna do?
You know? Then I dance and their hearts open. I
(35:05):
hope that this film and I hope that as I
continue to share my dance, that it just creates that openness.
It helps people drop their guard, let go of their ego,
let go of you know, worrying what you know, people
are thinking of them and they're able to just feel,
(35:27):
you know. As an artist, we just want to make
people feel and I hope that it does.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
That, all right, Eric, So this is one of my
favorite parts of the whole podcast. But we call it
five Sacred Prompts. I'm literally just gonna ask you five
questions in one word or one sentence.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Just answer it.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
And it's our opportunity to give like listeners, like practical
things that folks can do and Offishally, I want to
know some of these things. So number one, what are
three things that make you feel safe?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Connected? And whole?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Prayer movements? Okay, community love it.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
All right?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
As a musician, this one's close to my heart. What song,
book or prayer brings you back to yourself?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Redbone, Come and get your love.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Come and get your love. Yeah, and tell the story.
Well that's the native chi Ghana. Right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
All right, what's one daily ritual or practice that grounds you.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Morning walk?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Okay, what's one action that listeners can take today to
help them on their healing drip?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Ask yourself what advice would you have given yourself ten
years ago?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Man, I want to.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Go like in age one of these. All right, last question,
the Sacred Five. Share a one line blessing or quote
that inspires you.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, I think just being aware of Uh there's a
quote that I've heard from Jay Shetty. Actually, Okay, what's
you say? He says, Uh, I'm not who I think
I am. I am who I think you think I am.
(37:58):
And being aware of that as powerful.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Boom. That's it. Jay Shetty.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
If you're listening on the podcast, gotta be j Shetty
out here. She's so Anyways, Eric, So there's a lot
going on the film's coming out, theatrical release and everything else.
Yes where can folks find out more? Go see the film,
learn about what you're doing all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, we're posting all the updates on Courage the Film, Instagram,
Courage the Film, Courage the Film, and we have a
theatrical release in Santa Monica September twelfth through eighteenth. This
is going to come out after that, so that doesn't
make any sense. Yeah. The Instagram we keep We put
all the updates in there, and we talk about where
(38:49):
the film's going to be screened. That's a great place
to check it all out, check out the cast, the crew,
follow along, so.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Follow on ig and what about if someone wants to
follow you?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Website?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah yeah gee. So my production company is called Legacy
Vision Productions.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Okay, Legacy Vision, yes.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And my performances and my film and whatever future films
are going to be under that umbrella. So Legacyvision Productions
dot Com is where you can find all of my stuff. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, Well I want to close by. You said a
lot today.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Number one.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I just want to humbly say thank you for even
agreeing to be on the show.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Thanks for having us for your story.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Some of the nuggets I'm really gonna process and really
reflect on, as you said, for us to take the
practice of writing our own story as if it was
a film and just uninhibited like write it out. Who
are those characters, what are those arcs? But then the
next step is actually perform it or do it publicly.
(39:54):
So that was something super profound. And then the other
thing is you're your courage to embrace your culture through
the hoop dance is healing not only others like myself,
but healing your relationship with your father, your relationship with
(40:15):
your brothers, letting your uncle live for immortality through the film,
through your relationships. And so I just want you to
know like you're an incredible, incredible person. I am so
blessed creator brought us together, and that you are just
a reminder of the sacredness of our culture. And that's
to love up on the culture the way you loved
(40:36):
up on all those cultures when you were on tour
Recircaslet so thank.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
You, thank you, thank you for having me. And I'm
excited to read your book and excited to see all
these incredible guests that you have. Yes, you're on an
incredible journey helping men. You know, even being here and
answering the questions that you asked me brought that out.
So keep doing what you're doing. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Sacred Lessons is a production. My heart's Michael through it.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Our podcast network, Sacred Lessons Media and the Prints group.
For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What are the cycles fathers passed down that son so
they're left to heal. What if being a man was
about holding it all together but learning how to let go.
This is a space where men speak truth and find
the power to heal and transform.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Mike Dela Rocha. Welcome to Sacred Lessons.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Movement is ancestral, memory, dance is dialogue, and our cultural
practices and traditions are our lifelines. For many Indigenous and
Chicano communities, culture is everything. It's the medicine we carry,
the lessons ingrained in our bodies, and the blueprint for
our way forward. Welcome to Sacred Lessons. I'm Mike Dela Rocha.
(00:44):
Today's guest bridges worlds derived from Lumbee ancestry and Higana
roots through the circle of hoop dance and the lens
of film. Eric Michael Hernandez is a world champion hoop dancer,
culture ambassador, tedex speaker, and filmmaker who has transformed the
hoop into a canvas of identity, healing, and representation. Eric's
(01:07):
story isn't only about the hoop dance. It's about family.
It's about a father who shaped him in both spoken
and unspoken ways for so many men. Our relationship with
our father is where we first learned about manhood, strength
and vulnerability.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's so good to see you, Eric. Thank you for
being a part of this whole journey. And I wanted
to take it to where we first met. At the
Risawa Festival. We had crazy experiences. I want you to
briefly quickly talk about the town Poet and the Black
Bear and late night pizza.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
First of all, thanks for having me. Congratulations all this man.
So what we watched the We watched the film, We
went to an incredible events and then after we went
for some late night pizza, apparently the most popular pizza
in town. Because we were there was a line all
the way up the stairs. You guys got in line,
(02:09):
you went up. I ended up hanging out outside for
a little bit with a special surprise guest. Yeah. Ran
into the town Poet and just he basically was begging
me to bring him back down a slice and he
was just selling me on that, and I said, well,
what you got, man? I heard you know, you're the
town poet. Give me something. You want to slice pizza?
Let me hear something. And he laid it down. He
(02:30):
gave me like a whole two minute poet poem, and
then as he's doing his poem, a bear walks by,
straight up bear, a full on black bear, right in
the middle of town. Pulled out my phone and captured
it and that was unbelievable. And then I went up
to meet you guys with the pizza, and you guys
(02:51):
are like, oh, where were you? What was going on?
And I was like, oh, I was just down there
with a town poet and we were eating our pizza.
And then we left the shop and I was like, oh, yeah,
there was a too, and we were like, you're crazy.
And I showed you guys the.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Video, showed us the video man.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So that was a good time. And that festival is
really special, very really special for community and the Latino community,
and it was. It was an incredible time up there.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I loved it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well big ops to uh Monica Ramirez and the whole team.
But what brought us together was this remarkable film called
Courage that you wrote and directed. But before even getting there,
I want the listeners to know, like, how did you
even fall into hoop dancing? Like what was that calling?
(03:36):
What was that kind of story that brought you there.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah. So on my mother's side, I come from the
Lumbee tribe from North Carolina. My father's from East Los Angeles,
so we grew up in La.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
My mom's a twin and my mom's twin married a
man named Terry Godell who's from the Yakama to Lalup tribe,
Washington State, and he was a hoop dancer. He was
a nine time world champion hoop dancer. And when my
parents separated, I was about eleven years old, my mom
started to send me more and more to my uncle
(04:11):
Terry as like a father figure. And he used this
dance called the hoop dance to kind of fother me
and to teach me traditional ways and to teach me
how to become a man. There's a lot of stories
and wisdom inside of this dance, and he taught me
(04:31):
and my cousin Michael, and we just kept dancing and
we fell in love with it. At first, I didn't
really gravitate towards it, you know, I wanted to be
more like my dad. Actually, my dad was a professional
football player and he was my hero. And now I
have my uncle stepping in trying to play dad and
I'm like, you're not my dad, you know. And it
(04:53):
wasn't until I realized that that dance and that tradition
was actually something that allowed me to share a very
unique story and a unique side of myself in the
world that I was living in amongst my peers. And
(05:14):
it gave me an opportunity to show them something that
I didn't think that they would understand, you know, and
show them these traditions, and I just fell in love
with it. Yeah. Man.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And so you're half Lumby, half Chicano growing up in
Los Angeles and we have this conversation about we're all indigenous,
a lot of us ma's Chicano's what have you? What
was that tension like and were you were you resistant
to like showing your school, your friends the dance and
(05:48):
that part of who you are.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, And you know, on my Mexican side with my father,
culture wasn't too present, right, you know, even my grandparents.
You know, it was more about fitting into society. It
was more about speaking English and you know, blending in
and wanting to be you know, just mixed in with
(06:16):
the capitalist society, right. And uh, as a young boy
being in school and in high school. I wanted to
thrive in sports. I wanted to, you know, be a
star basketball player like my two older brothers were. And
the hoop dance, the idea that I would ever show
anybody this hoop dance was just like terrifying, you know,
(06:40):
especially as you know, a freshman in high school or
a sophomore, you just kind of want to fit in,
right uh And and that wasn't the way to do it.
You know, I wasn't going to show up and use
these hoops. You know, I thought that they would call
these hula hoops or call my regelia a costume, and
I think they would understand. And I learned later on
(07:02):
that it's because they don't understand that I now have
a very clear purpose, and that's to create that understanding.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Well, take me back, though you're fourteen thirteen freshman in
high school. That takes a lot of kind of internal
strength to be like, I'm going to step outside of
just fitting in, which is what the society wants us
to do, right, assimilate and be that.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
But what was it? Was it your.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Uncle's guidance or what was it that gave you like
the ump to do that?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Though?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You know what, man, I got cut from the team,
and everything that I thought that I wanted to be,
everything I was chasing, had just got pulled from under me.
I didn't make the basketball team. I didn't even feel
like I fit into my own family with my brothers,
And I'm like, man, who am I? What do I
(07:53):
do if I don't get to go practice and play sports?
What do I even do? I was lost.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I was lost.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I hit like a rock bottom. I didn't even want
to go to school, like I didn't want to be
around people. And I think at that very low point,
I found myself connecting to something deeper, which was my culture.
(08:22):
And you know, I think in those super low points,
a lot of times, in our ceremonies and in practices,
we create those environments for ourselves to be able to
have those enlightening moments. And I think that as a kid,
I had that moment where I just I didn't know
(08:43):
which way to turn, I didn't know what else to do,
and that hoop dance, it was almost like it was
calling me and I denied it it first. And I'm
lucky that I had a mentor, which was my uncle,
and you know, he led me in the right direction.
But I didn't want it, and eventually I think I
(09:07):
just realized, you know what, my strength, my way in
this world, my way at school, my way in high school,
is not going to be blending in fitting in. I'm
never gonna be as good as them playing their game.
Let me find my own lane and let me play
(09:28):
my own game. And for me, that was hoop dancing,
and it was the scariest thing at the time, but
it was the greatest decision, most courageous decision I've ever
made in my life, and it really changed the whole
trajectory of my path.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I just want to affirm that because I know folks,
grown men that have difficulty doing what you just said
as a young thirteen fourteen year old, and so one
just humbly thank you for doing that. He also says
something earlier about your uncle's guidance and mentorship and you
(10:05):
use the word father, father figure, and like, hey man,
you're not my father, but you are my uncle. What
was that relationship between you and your dad and your uncle?
Was it copacetic? Was it difficult? I mean, obviously you
took stuff from both, but what was that Like.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, my dad didn't understand at the time, what I
was doing. He thought it was a waste of time
to drive three hours on a Saturday to a pow
wow and go hoop dance. You know, he was kind
of like, oh, well are you are you getting paid
or you know what's going on here? What? How come
you're going off? You know, you got you got better
(10:43):
things you could be doing. And him and my uncle,
you know, they went to college together. It was my
mom and her twin sister. My mom met my dad
in college, and my dad's twin met my uncle, Terry
in college. It was the four of them. They were
a bunch in college and they were close, but you know,
(11:04):
they had their differences. My dad, my dad never fully
supported the time that I spent until he eventually saw it.
Until he eventually saw it in person, I think I
showed him something that he didn't even realize was a thing.
(11:29):
And yeah, I think I opened up a piece of
my own father. You know, I was able to teach
him something as a young kid. And I see my
dad as somebody who may have, you know, needed to
reflect and go through healing on his own right that
(11:50):
he may not have done the work on. You know,
he was such a successful athlete and he loved talking
about his stories. Still to this day. My dad's that guy,
you know. Oh yeah, Colorado State nineteen seventy six. Yeah,
three interceptions in a single game.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
It's like, I know, Dad, you told me yesterday and
the day before and right He's like, yeah, but you
got to remember it, you know. I'm like, we know, Dad,
And so when I talk about hoop dancing and that
vulnerability of getting on stage and arts and expressing yourself,
it just wasn't his world at all. So yeah, there
(12:31):
definitely was a.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, let me ask you from you know that dance
is a is a ceremonial dance. It's a sacred dance,
and it's vulnerable, like you said, which is aware that
men don't often use that much. Did you see your
dad try to figure out like who he was culturally
(12:53):
from that from the moment he first saw you dance
on that stage or did he start to be like
a little bit more open with you or like what
was that done?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I think that even just to hear him say good job,
even just to you know, hear him kind of clap
and give one of those oh okay, that was cool.
You know that for me was huge, and seeing that,
did he open up culturally? I don't think that he's
(13:25):
had the exposure to his own culture to be able
to open up. Even my two older brothers that were
a little bit older when my parents separated, they didn't
get the exposure to my uncle's teachings. My two older
brothers don't hoop dance. They aren't necessarily as involved in
(13:48):
Indian country, in this community. I was blessed enough to
be exposed to it through my uncle and to be
interested in it. So I think my dad, although he
saw it, I don't think that he wasn't inspired or
(14:09):
you know, to go deeper into his roots or anything.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
But it obviously changed your career in trajectory because from
that moment of I don't want to say bloshemy, but
that moment of like remembrance of who you are, then
all of a sudden, you're doing a ted talk, You're
going on tour with circ Desolet for almost ten years,
and then you're bringing that tradition to others that may
(14:35):
have never known it, like your dad, right, like almost
that full circle.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, So what was that whole? What was that journey like? Then?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Obviously you the who transformed your life, and obviously you're
transforming others through the dance.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
How did that all go down?
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I mean, I think just like anything as an individual,
like you have a vision, you can see something, and
a lot of times the people around you can't see
that vision, right, and it's kind of just like just
hold on, just wait, just watch, and you take the
steps that you take and things start to happen and
they start to see your vision come to life and
(15:13):
then they go, oh, okay. So I think that as
I started to dance as a kid, it was kind
of like, okay, what do you you know playing with
these hoops? Yeah, and then Cirque de Silea called me
and said, hey, we have a show called Totem and
we'd love you to come be the main character and
hoop dance all around the world. And I remember even
(15:37):
one of my older brothers, Sean, after about a year
of being on tour with Cirque Silat, he says, hey,
they want to teach me how to hoop dance, you know.
And I started working with my brother a little bit
and teaching him how to hoop dance, and he gained
an interest of it and wanted to get more involved.
(15:59):
And then when I did my TED talk, that gave
me a chance to not just dance and perform, but
it gave me a chance to use my voice and
to tell my personal story, just like we're doing here
right now. And that was the first time that anybody
had ever really heard me talking that way. I was
(16:19):
always kind of talking through my dance all those years,
and then going on that ted X stage, I was
able to formulate the message that I wanted to share,
which was my journey of growing up as an urban
native and connecting to the dance. And there's such a
(16:42):
message in there that is not just particularly cultural, particularly
about the hoop dance, but it's just a general message
of having the courage to just tap into that authentic
side of yourself, you know, to let go of what
you think the world is going to think of you,
(17:04):
to let go of trying to blend in and actually
digging deep and doing that work and saying who am
I and what message do I have to share with
the world. What is the light that I can give
to this world? And when I talk or I perform,
I'm using the hoop dance and I'm using my story
as the vehicle right, But there's a message in there
(17:26):
that I helpe resonates, you know, with anybody's story.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Which is the title of the film.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Courage, like you just said, the courage to tell your
story as medicine to help somebody else, or the courage
to just be yourself in a world that wants you
to be someone other than who you are. And so
I saw the film. I felt honored to see the film.
But can you talk about that, Like, obviously it's another
vehicle to get your voice out and inspire others, but
(18:00):
talk about courage.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, man, making a film. I think everybody at some
point should make a biopic about themselves. Talk about inner
work and healing and vulnerability. You know, getting on stage
and hoop dancing is one thing. Getting on stage and speaking,
But to sit down and write a script about your
(18:23):
life and understand those story arcs, and understand the antagonist
and the protagonists in your life, and to tell that
story and to sit in the theater and watch it
with those people who are in the story, and then
they start to know that that's how you wrote about them,
and you start to just heal from whatever it is
(18:48):
you know that you may have been carrying and it's
just been such an incredible process of creating this film.
It's been resonating with audiences all over I really wanted
to create a film that depicted Indigenous people in the
modern day in an urban environment. I wanted to get
(19:10):
away from cowboys and Indians and western and these John
Ford movies where the natives the bad guy, and wanted
to create I wanted to tell a story that I
knew how to tell because it was my experience, and
I knew that there's a large demographic of urban natives.
You know, eighty percent of Natives live off of reservations,
(19:32):
live in cities, and I wanted to tell one of
those stories. And it's been It's been a really truly
rewarding process. I've had the chance to share it all
across Indian country. We've gone to like over twenty different reservations.
And at first I was like, you know, is this
(19:54):
going to resonate with natives on the reds? Are they
going to are they going to be like wait, what
is this? And it has been. It has been because
that message is digestible, you know, by all different walks
of life, and it really has given me a tool
to be able to uplift our people, to uplift the
(20:14):
next generation. And it's it's just been an incredible journey
so far. And the team, the team building that it
requires to bring together a project like this is probably
one of my favorite things. Too. It was really important
that we had as many Indigenous people as we could
involved in the film, and we truly brought together a
(20:35):
cast of Indigenous excellence and and and we're able to
tell that story in an authentic way.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
And one of the things I love is that your
uncle actually plays your uncle in the film. Yes, and
then the person that plays you is the national youth
champion of hoop dancing, So you're bridging generations in real
time on a screen, but also in life. So what
was the calculation for that? Like why did you decide
(21:03):
to go that way like your real uncle? Like was
I a cognizant thing or you just said, Hey, I'm
going to do this because I need someone that can
be as badass as me and dancing or like what
was the whole thing?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
When COVID hit and I lost my job with circ
Disilay and I ended up doing my ted talk. Yeah,
I also started to get into acting. I started to
train a bit, learning how to break down scripts, you know,
learning different techniques on set, and I became really passionate
for acting. And as I was writing this script, I
(21:36):
wanted to give my chance also, you know, an opportunity
to be on screen and act. I wanted to play
my uncle. That was the original goal. And about two
weeks before we shot, I prayed about it and prayed
about it, and I had to just take my ego
out of it and ask myself, what's the best choice.
(22:00):
Do I play my uncle or do we need my
uncle to come and play himself and give us that
elder those elder vibes, you know, And that was the
best choice. And I decided not to put myself in
the film. You know, here I was already having the
opportunity to tell my story. I wanted to focus on directing.
(22:24):
And I brought him in and he was a natural.
We've always grown up. We've always told him that he
gives like he gives like Denzel Denzel vibes. Yeah, he's
a native Denzel and and he killed it man. And
then Mateo Ulaberry, who's the three time teen World hoop
Dance champion. I've been watching him grow up and dance.
It's a very small world hoop dancers. We meet once
(22:46):
a year in Phoenix, Arizona at the Herd Museum hoop
dance competition. And Mateo also is half Mexican. Yeah, yeah,
and uh, I felt like he be perfect for the role.
He was very timid, very shy, never acted before.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
And I thought to myself, Okay, I can get an
incredible hoop dancer, which is Mateo who's never acted, or
I can try to find an experienced actor and try
to teach them how to hoop dance. I was like, Nah,
you can't really just teach the hoop dance like that,
and the hoop dancing has to be great in this film.
I had an incredible mentor. Her name was Lehia Via Lobos.
(23:27):
She was one of the writers on Coco, and she
helped me a lot with writing writing the script. And
she also told me, she said, what's gonna make this
film is the hoop dancing has to be incredible.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Right, and it is.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, Mateo killed it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, let me ask you something.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, we live in a world that wants us
to believe in binaries, right, and so when you sit
down and do script, you have a protagonist and antagonist.
Like you said, I oftentimes think like I'm both right,
I'm my own protagonists and antagonist. But in this when
you talked earlier about your uncle and your dad, who
played what roles and were they shifting and changing and
(24:10):
after they saw it, how was the reaction.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
My dad was the antagonist in the story and my
uncle was the protagonist. And when they saw it, my dad,
you know, he hesitated to say anything at first, but
you know then he he owned it, you know, and
(24:37):
he said, you know, I see, I see, and I
think that he's I was able to talk to him
through this film, and that was really powerful for me.
And you know what's crazy is I didn't even intend
to do that. As I was writing the script and
as I was thinking of the story and the and
the challenges of the main character, I didn't plan on
(25:01):
targeting the father as the antagonist. But it just it
happened that way, and it was truth that came out subconsciously.
And my uncle loves seeing himself on camera, and I
love that we captured that of him. He had a
(25:23):
heart attack about a year and a half ago, and
it was really special to be able to put him
on camera and you know, immortalize him and put him
in this movie, capture his teachings. You know, he he's
one of the few hoop dancers that is known as
(25:43):
just carrying some of the deepest knowledge within the dance.
He's been dancing for fifty years. When he started dancing,
it was nearly a dying art. He's he's a big
part of the revival of this art form. So to
how Terry this legend and have Mateo the future and
(26:04):
me kind of in the middle directing it, it was
a dream come true to bring that hoop dance world
and hoop dance community and to tell my own story
using these incredible hoop dance figures.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Well, it's funny because.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Father figures, right, Terry, your dad father figures in some
respects of being a father figure for the young man
who played you. And even this whole podcast came about
because of the words unspoken between my father and I.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
And it was the practice of the paper.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And the pen and writing writing out kind of my trauma,
really not knowing subconsciously like you like, oh man, this
is how my relationship really was. And my dad I
was actually running away from the complexity and the beauty
and the trauma and everything else. But I was able
to say things to my dad that I wasn't able
to say when he was alive through the book. But
(27:03):
with your uncle Terry and your dad, is there anything
that you want to tell him that you haven't through
the film or anything else that's left unspoken?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, you know, recently with my dad, this is something
that was never said growing up, never said until recently,
and even even now it's still you have to push it,
you have to push for it. But even just telling
my dad I love you, you know, when I'm with
(27:32):
him and I'm hanging out with him and he's and
he's leaving, he's getting this car to leave. Love your dad,
That for me is a huge step forward. And when
he hears this, you know, for me, I'm giving him
the permission to say I love you, son. And then
(27:59):
it'll which one time I'll see him, I'll say love you, Eric,
and it hits and it's like, love you Dad. And
we've started to create that exchange very recently, within the
last six months. And that's beautiful, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Mean interiotic because.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I would tell my dad I love you, Papa, right,
But it was hard for him to reply back, you know,
and so much of man, we just hold it in
because no one teaches us the language of love, and
so when you receive it, especially from a son, it's
hard to process, let alone like reply back, you know.
(28:44):
And so I just want to say, man, that's a
beautiful thing to like heal those cycles where you allowed
the space for you, not only to have a courage
to tell your dad, hey, I love your dad, for
him if he feel vulnerable enough to reply back and
say I love you too.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Eric, and then to say it first, that is profound.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
And it's like pulling teeth, I trust it is it
ain't you know you're gotta generate that out of thin
air because there's no energy towards it. No, it's not like,
oh you know, it's you got to create that.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And yeah, so what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Just like, why do you think it's so hard for
us men just to be like, you know, like I
always say, when I'm drunk with my brother or my friends,
all of a sudden, I love you, I love you more, No,
but I love you more. It's all just flowing obviously,
But why what are your thoughts? Why is it so
hard for US men to tell our fathers, let alone
(29:44):
our friends or family that we love them.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Man, that's that's a great question, that's not question.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
My experience with Circus LA being on tour with these artists.
I was one of forty seven artists in our show,
and I was one of two Americans in our show.
Everybody else was European and Russian and Chinese and different cultures.
Seventeen different languages spoken backstage, and they all embrace one
(30:16):
another in different ways, different cultures. I got a chance
to witness that and be a part of that, and
you know, be around the Russians, who you can't really
get much of a smile out of them. A lot
of times they may even, you know, tell you a joke,
but they're still serious. And that's just their cultural you know.
(30:37):
Being when we were in Japan, we were performing, and
the Japanese, you know, even as much as they love
the performance, for them, it's respectful. They don't want to
clap because they're scared they're going to make you have
a mistake on stage. So they're so respectful, and that's
how they show their love and respect. In Spain, they're
(30:57):
stomping their feet the whole show, and that's how they
showed their love and their support. I think growing up
the way I did with a father like mine and
brothers like mine, I think we just showed it. It's there,
it's deep in there, but we show it in different ways.
(31:18):
That doesn't always it's not clear enough, and it's not
it's not always felt because the person. I think it's
just the person doesn't know how to express how to
express it. And when you can, when you can express it,
(31:39):
you just give so much permission to the other person.
I was given so much permission on tour with Circusila,
being around these different cultures.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
One of my best friends was Massimiliano Medini from Italy.
Every time he saw me, you know, they you know,
big hug anda dah, you know. And I'd come home
from tour and see my brothers and be like I
didn't give him and they're like like you know, and
I'm like grabbing the back of their nag and it's like, well,
what's going on? And I just realized that, you know,
(32:11):
here it's different. I was raised different, yea, But I
realized I had an opportunity to have that impact on
my family about how to express love, how to show love.
I think that generation before us, just right, our fathers,
in that generation, their fathers, there was something there that
(32:36):
didn't make them feel like they were able to express that.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Yeah, I mean, I always say, may weelo. My grandfather
came as a breastsetto farm worker, and he came from Chiwawa,
Mexico to actually Oxnar, where I was born. But he
came in a cattle car and they sprayed them with DMT,
and for all intents and purposes, he was like an
indentured servant or a slave in Oxnard.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
They wouldn't let him out.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
He would work from beginning to end, so he was
beat down so any emotion feeling. So therefore my dad
never heard the words I love you, let alone a
hug or anything else. Of course, my compassion for my
father is like he's doing the best he can given
what was given to him. And then for our generation,
it's like knowing this history but also knowing that we
(33:22):
can give ourselves permission to then give for other people
the space to consider being more emotionally expressive or more
emotionally like vulnerable. That's where like the medicine lies. And
I feel like with you and the hoop dance. You're
inviting us into a ceremony that then these conversations can happen.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, you know, I mean you just said it.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Your brother wants to learn, and you know, millions of
people have seen you hoop in some shape or form,
whether it was on tour, whether it's the film, or
whether it was on Ted Talk. But I guess that's
kind of what one of my final questions really is,
what do you hope people get from your film? But
more than your film? Eric, like you from like you
(34:07):
know what I mean, like you like, I'm I'm I'm
already learning so many things in my mind, But what's
your message through your life and through the film.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
You know, I hope that it just unguards people. And
just whenever I dance, I realized that, you know, the
flashiness and the storytelling and the way that the hoops
move and the story that I'm telling As I dance,
(34:42):
people's hearts open up. And when I'm finished dancing, the
words that I speak after the dance are received so
much more than before I danced. Before I start dancing,
you know, there's a lot of times the audience is
kind of like all right, what's this guy gonna do?
You know? Then I dance and their hearts open. I
(35:05):
hope that this film and I hope that as I
continue to share my dance, that it just creates that openness.
It helps people drop their guard, let go of their ego,
let go of you know, worrying what you know, people
are thinking of them and they're able to just feel,
(35:27):
you know. As an artist, we just want to make
people feel and I hope that it does.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
That, all right, Eric, So this is one of my
favorite parts of the whole podcast. But we call it
five Sacred Prompts. I'm literally just gonna ask you five
questions in one word or one sentence.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Just answer it.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
And it's our opportunity to give like listeners, like practical
things that folks can do and Offishally, I want to
know some of these things. So number one, what are
three things that make you feel safe?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Connected? And whole?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
Prayer movements? Okay, community love it.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
All right?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
As a musician, this one's close to my heart. What song,
book or prayer brings you back to yourself?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Redbone, Come and get your love.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Come and get your love. Yeah, and tell the story.
Well that's the native chi Ghana. Right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
All right, what's one daily ritual or practice that grounds you.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Morning walk?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Okay, what's one action that listeners can take today to
help them on their healing drip?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Ask yourself what advice would you have given yourself ten
years ago?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Man, I want to.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Go like in age one of these. All right, last question,
the Sacred Five. Share a one line blessing or quote
that inspires you.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, I think just being aware of Uh there's a
quote that I've heard from Jay Shetty. Actually, Okay, what's
you say? He says, Uh, I'm not who I think
I am. I am who I think you think I am.
(37:58):
And being aware of that as powerful.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Boom. That's it. Jay Shetty.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
If you're listening on the podcast, gotta be j Shetty
out here. She's so Anyways, Eric, So there's a lot
going on the film's coming out, theatrical release and everything else.
Yes where can folks find out more? Go see the film,
learn about what you're doing all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Yeah, we're posting all the updates on Courage the Film, Instagram,
Courage the Film, Courage the Film, and we have a
theatrical release in Santa Monica September twelfth through eighteenth. This
is going to come out after that, so that doesn't
make any sense. Yeah. The Instagram we keep We put
all the updates in there, and we talk about where
(38:49):
the film's going to be screened. That's a great place
to check it all out, check out the cast, the crew,
follow along, so.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Follow on ig and what about if someone wants to
follow you?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Website?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yeah yeah gee. So my production company is called Legacy
Vision Productions.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Okay, Legacy Vision, yes.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
And my performances and my film and whatever future films
are going to be under that umbrella. So Legacyvision Productions
dot Com is where you can find all of my stuff. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, Well I want to close by. You said a
lot today.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Number one.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I just want to humbly say thank you for even
agreeing to be on the show.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Thanks for having us for your story.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Some of the nuggets I'm really gonna process and really
reflect on, as you said, for us to take the
practice of writing our own story as if it was
a film and just uninhibited like write it out. Who
are those characters, what are those arcs? But then the
next step is actually perform it or do it publicly.
(39:54):
So that was something super profound. And then the other
thing is you're your courage to embrace your culture through
the hoop dance is healing not only others like myself,
but healing your relationship with your father, your relationship with
(40:15):
your brothers, letting your uncle live for immortality through the film,
through your relationships. And so I just want you to
know like you're an incredible, incredible person. I am so
blessed creator brought us together, and that you are just
a reminder of the sacredness of our culture. And that's
to love up on the culture the way you loved
(40:36):
up on all those cultures when you were on tour
Recircaslet so thank.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
You, thank you, thank you for having me. And I'm
excited to read your book and excited to see all
these incredible guests that you have. Yes, you're on an
incredible journey helping men. You know, even being here and
answering the questions that you asked me brought that out.
So keep doing what you're doing. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Sacred Lessons is a production. My heart's Michael through it.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Our podcast network, Sacred Lessons Media and the Prints group.
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