November 12, 2025 • 40 mins
We’re halfway through season 2, so this episode is an interlude of sorts. As you can probably imagine, the work that goes into this project is massive. We’re fighting an uphill battle against Kremlin state media. FSB interference, and a huge Russian wall of silence. We want to share with you some of the behind the scenes struggles of the Sad Oligarch extended universe...
Jake Hanrahan's projects: www.hanrahan.tv
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Something strange is going on.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Another member of the Russian elite has been found dead.
Reports suggests that he fell out of a window, poisoned
with mushrooms.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Died of heart failure, died.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Of carbon monoxide poisoning. How comes you are they?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Dozens of Russian oligachs, politically motivated millionaires have died in
the space for three years, most of them in suspicious circumstances.
Many have hidden links to the Kremlin. This is sad
Oligach season two, an ongoing investigation into these recently dead
Russian power brokers. Sad Oligach is created by me Jake
(00:42):
Hanrahan and my Ukrainian colleague, Sergey Slipchenkong. This is a
H eleven studio and Coolso Media production. We're now halfway
through season two of sad Oligach, so this episode is
(01:03):
an interlude of sorts. As you can probably imagine, the
work that goes into this project is absolutely massive. We're
knackerd We're essentially fighting an uphill battle against Kremlin state media,
FSB interference and a huge Russian wall of silence. It's
(01:25):
all become extremely difficult to navigate, especially for season two.
We also don't have the resources to spend months on
the ground in Russia. I actually can't even go to
the country, and as a proud Ukrainian, Surgery is of
course not about to jump on a flight to Moscow.
(01:46):
So for this interlude, we want to share with you
some of the behind the scenes struggles of what you
could call the sad Oligach extended universe. Now, this is
not to be like, oh for us. The point I'm
making is things have shifted massively since when we first
started reporting on this in twenty twenty two to twenty
(02:08):
twenty three. I think that in itself is a big
indicator of what's going on with this possible deep state
Russian conspiracy to take out perceived enemies of the state.
So me and Surgery sat down to discuss all of
this going forward. When we first started this project two
(02:31):
years ago or now, it definitely was not easy, but
I feel like it was a lot easier perhaps than
it is now. This second season, it's just been chaos,
trying to dig into stuff. Add one and two together.
It's been a lot. What would you say has been
the hardest part this series? Like, what's been more difficult
(02:54):
than it was previously.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Honestly, it's like it almost seems like people are maybe
tired of this or bored of it in a sense,
like it lost its novelty or something. Because a lot
of these stories I'm looking at, like articles, like even
like English media or like Western media and Russian media,
it almost seems like they're it's like lost its novelty again, right,
a lot less details. I mean, with all of these stories,
(03:19):
there's practically no updates at all. It's usually like, oh,
like the guy hung himself and yeah, there's no updates.
You know, with the previous stories, like so the first
season was like what twenty two the deaths were from
like twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, right, there was
a bit more details. They would dig in a bit more.
(03:42):
You'd get maybe like oh, like the police were investigating,
and like the case is open and they're doing something.
Now it just seems to be like the bare minimum.
It's like, oh, this person was working at this office,
they did this thing, and now they're dead. It's really
like it's almost like a little blurb at this point.
And you know, on one hand, you could say maybe
(04:02):
some of the deaths are less notable. You know, we
had like Pregosion, we had like Rapaport, like these big
profile cases, but we've had some pretty big profile cases
in the second season as well. So it's not to
say that like, oh, these people are less interesting or
less important, like I would say, you know, it depends
(04:23):
on the case by case, but some of these people
are just as big as the previous cases we covered.
But the information is just really hard to find. I
don't know if it's you know, intentional censoring or kind
of like the government being more the Russian government being
more kind of like maybe kind of like selective with
what to announce, on what to say, or maybe it's
(04:45):
just a genuine kind of like getting tired of it
kind of thing, right, like a fatigue. But the overall
effect is there's just way less information, way less details.
I feel like the most details I find is independent
like telegram channels posting stuff. Maybe people who were like
walking by it like a like a death right, like
(05:08):
some citizens came over and filmed it and then they
send it to a telegram channel. Like that's where I
find the most information. Like the the guy that like
allegedly shut himself with a shotgun that was only because
somebody stopped behind his car and like filmed it, right,
and that's all I was kind of that was like
the epitome of the reporting that we saw from that.
The actual news outlets didn't they get into anything past that,
(05:31):
and it's just kind of tough finding anything.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that's a good point.
I don't know if it's fatigue Ukraine fatigue, which I
think is a knock on effective it And I say
that and I don't mean it that way because it
sounds brutal, but unfortunately, I think the way the press is,
especially with war and conflict, it will focus wholeheardly on
something that they feel people will read and get clicks on,
(05:58):
as opposed to what information should we be letting the world? No,
you know what I mean. I feel like there's a
very big shift in journalism in general in that way.
And I feel like there was a lot of attention
on Ukraine of course for the first year, massively rightly so,
and then the second year at Wayne and now I
feel like it's even less and hand in hand, yeah,
(06:20):
the press is definitely a lot less interested. I don't know,
do you think it may be linked to that? It
feels like that to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Me, it could definitely be an. I mean, it can
entirely blame them. It's like the first time Ukraine hit
a I don't know, like something in Crimea, or when
it invaded Kursk, right, Like those are exciting things, new things,
but if you look at it, like if you follow
with day by day, it's a lot of the same
kind of happening, Like how many times can you say,
you know that Ukraine hit oil refinery in Russia. A
(06:50):
lot of people don't know where it is. They just
hear like a different city or maybe like a target,
like the target was a far distance away, so that's interesting.
But other than that, it's you know, it's really kind
of same thing over and over again, like how many
times can you report on it? And I think that's
kind of what's happening here. You know, another guy thought
out the window, another person hung themselves, and especially with
(07:11):
them giving so little details, it's almost like they wanted
to be boring, like as boring and uninteresting as possible, right,
And I think it's like the only thing that's changing
is the names basically maybe the name of the city
and then maybe like one or two details around it
even like you remember some of the first that's we'd
have a death and there would be a note, and
we'd have like a picture of the note or at
(07:32):
least that transcribing of the note written out. Now it's like, oh,
he left the note, but let's say we don't know
what they wrote. They kind of don't publish that anymore.
It almost seems like they kind of like don't want
attention on it, and like they kind of want to
kill the interest before it kind of gets out there
and people start looking into it more.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I think you're right, but I think regarding the Ukraine thing,
it's almost a problem with the media not necessarily what's happening.
You are right, like, there's only so many times you
can say this front line got breached and blah blah.
Unless you're like kind of you know, kind of conflict
anoraks as we are. It's not that interesting to your
average person. However, there are so many stories within that
(08:12):
that could be told. You know, I know so many
reporters that are out there finding really interesting human stories.
You know, Granny is on the front line. She's turned
her house into like a makeshift hospital for soldiers, and
you know, stuff like this, and I feel unfortunately there's
a lot less funding for that style of reporting. I
think the two go hand in hand. It's kind of
not enough shocking new things are happening, but there's also
(08:35):
not the resources to tell the more deeper stories out there.
For example, I can't see anyone else would have done,
you know, like I did with Frontline Huligan when we
were out there trying to find out, you know, what
was the makeup of the territorial forces, which obviously, by
the time we finished editing, the war had fully stied.
(08:56):
I feel like there's two things going on there. But
definitely the side of things with the media is crazy.
For example, when we did like episode one of season
one that we did so Vasilli Melnikov, the guy who
allegedly murdered his old family and killed himself Nizgy Novgorod,
(09:16):
that very nice area in Moscow where a lot of
these oligs actually had strange deaths. You know, there was
so many details, Like you said, there was I think
there was a note with that. There was the knife
that he allegedly did it with. There were scenes photos
from the crime scene. There was even one of the
other deaths where the guy had you know, cut his
(09:37):
wrists and he was in the bath and there was
even images from the bathroom this season. I don't know
about you. Obviously were halfway through, but we've done a
lot of research already for the rest of it. I
haven't seen a single crime scene photo regarding any of
these deaths. I've not even seen a photo of evidence
of what happens. At best, we get some kind of
(09:58):
long range show of like authorities pulling a body out
of somewhere. Maybe okay, now it's time for a quick outbreak,
all right, not for that, now back to the shore.
(10:20):
I feel like there's been a kind of concerted effort,
maybe straight from the Kremlin. I mean, the press is
mostly controlled by the Kremlin, so maybe they kind of
understand not to but I do feel like there's almost
a concerted effort to be like, right, we're going to
continue if this is what happening, which I think it's clear,
is we're going to continue taking out people that mess
(10:41):
with the state mostly. I think this kind of points
back to stealing and spying. We're going to take them
out the way we do it, but there's going to
be a lot less details. I don't know, am I
being paranoid.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I know, I think that's right. Like as you mentioned
with Melnico, No, it was the very first one call
his name, but yeah, he's the guy that was in
the gas Promb's nest. Right that episode, we had a
photo not of the bathtub. We had a photo of
him next to the bathtub, right like clearly a crime
scene photo. He's laying on the floor. I believe it
was face down. You can see the cast on his
(11:14):
leg that they attributed, like that he was in too
much pain and that's why he did it. We have
like a full on photo of him laying there like
clearly dead, you know, on the floor, Like the crime
scene is right there. It's not like it's not like
a distance photo or anything like. It's it had to
have been taken by like I assume some kind of
you know, like police examiner, like crime scene investigat or
(11:35):
something like that. We had that online within like the day,
if if not like hours, you know, And then like
you said in the in this recent instances, the only
time we see a crime scene is if the public
posts it. We don't see anything like extra like there's
no police like statements or posts about it. It's all
(11:56):
very like we're just investigating, like we're investigating. Usually they
say there's no criminal like element or whatever, and that's it,
and then like like finding updates has been hell, I
can't find anything. The only thing that's like posted, like
besides the like breaking news story or like, oh, this
person died, it's always like, oh, Russian oligarchs are dying
(12:16):
and here's a list of them. Were just like regurgitating
the information we already have. Like there's barely any updates,
barely anything kind of being followed up on. Can't find
any like maybe like police or like like kind of
like government like statements or reports. Nothing comes up in
a sense, maybe they just don't want it to come up, right,
(12:39):
let's kind of like it happened, let's let's forget about it.
Let's not bring attention to it. We don't want want
people asking questions. Yeah, I think it's just like again,
I don't think you're being crazy. It's it's pretty obvious
that the information is very limited. I mean Russia does
this with other avenues, you know, with the war. If
you're talking about how the army is struggling, or if
(13:00):
the government's not doing enough for the military or whatever,
like that's a big no no. So why wouldn't the
same apply to you know, potentially government sponsored or you know,
ordered murders and stuff like they definitely would have want that.
It's like, why would you want to write you don't
want to kind of like people know if that's enough
for them to know, you don't need to have all
the details of who, how and all that.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I don't know how much luck you've had in Russian,
and I know you say you're not fine a lot,
but even updates from series one I in English, I
have not found anything. I even tried to reach out
again to Vasily Melnikov's son, if you remember, he was
kind of shouting off online saying like my dad didn't
kill himself. I'm pretty sure the state did this. And
(13:45):
before I reached out to him, like I found him
via LinkedIn and then via Facebook. Nothing, just just absolutely zero.
He's gone completely silent. What about Russian? In Russian, if
you found like anything from any of the guys from
season one.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Nope, again, so pretty much just like here's what happened,
the death happened, and that's it, and just radio silence
after that. After trying for quite a few days to
just find anything. I thought, like, you know, well, Russia,
like okay, let's say they're suppressing it, right, Like, but
what about the Western cases? I looked into those, so
like there was like the Protestenia what was like triple
(14:23):
homicide suicide where he killed his wife and daughter in Spain.
Then there was Dan Rapaport who fell out of his
apartment in Washington, d C. Who else is Zeleno Zeleanov?
He died in France where he like tripped over his
railing and like hit his head on the car or whatever.
No updates pretty much for Rapaport. I found that, like
(14:45):
his investigation was, it's basically so like it's open, but
they're not investigating it unless something new comes up. So
they can't close it officially because they don't have a
specific manner of death. So at this time it's like
undetermined and the death is listed as sudden or unexplained.
And the report from the chief Medical Examiner, so this
(15:07):
was in November, a few months after his death in
August twenty twenty two. I believe it says multiple blunt
force injuries due to a fall from height, Like that's it,
like he fell out of his apartment. That's it. They
and they have this like conclusion, but they also don't
have a definitive answer. So because of that, it's kind
(15:27):
of like a limbo. Apparently the case is open, but
it's not being investigated, so they also don't have like
so it's not closed, so you can't access the details
of the investigation because it's technically ongoing. So it's kind
of stuck in this limbo where nobody can access it,
but nobody's investigating it, so which is kind of weird.
I could also find an update that his wife was
(15:48):
allegedly looking to do like a because you say, like
a personal investigation. She ordered his blood to be tested
for like texacology report to kind of I guess see
maybe he was at very at least maybe he was drunk,
or if he has something in a system. But there
was no updates since it was just like a mention
that she wanted to do that, and she I think
it was like immediately after his death she was very
(16:11):
very certain that there's no way that it was a suicide.
And then but that was really the only case where
I could find updates even in the West. There was
another one in UK. Was it Michael Watford. I think
his name is same thing. No updates. A lot of these, interestingly,
are ruled like suicides and they're closed, so there is
(16:32):
no way of investigating it further, right, because they're kind
of they kind of kind of like a close and shutcase,
so there's no really like like they're not intending to
follow up on it at least seems like they just
rule it a suicide and the case is closed.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
How I'm stronger the press over there right now, it's
gotten worse, I reckon, like, I don't think there's any
real room for independent media out there. Is that, and
even when there is, they still know, like we can
get this close to the edge, but we can't go
over it. It's still kind of self censorship. Just in case.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You know, it's not even just the media. I mean,
I think yesterday on Twitter or an X, people were
posting photos of a new Russian history book where they're
talking about the Special Military Operation, how it started because
NATO has biolabs in Ukraine, right, all this kind of
like propaganda that they've used to justify it. I mean,
(17:27):
if it's coming into history books, right, if they're willing
to kind of spread that lie in their official like
I think it was a Grade eleven or something. History
books and the media is known to be on the
very strict tight control. The narrative is typically very like
manufactured and decided on by the state, Like I don't
(17:48):
see why they wouldn't also control this narrative, right, And again,
it's not even controlling it. There's just no information. It's
not like it's not like there's a wealth of information
that is out there and they're trying to suppress it,
like itses doesn't come to begin with, Like I'm finding
it really hard to find stuff for the new cases
and basically no updates on old cases.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, I've found as well people are a lot less
interested in talking about it. So I've been trying, you know,
I've been reaching out to people like hey, can I
get like an opinion on this or someone from an
area will say yeah, sure, but I'm not going on
the record, you know, Like there's just not like even
people that are not necessarily attached, people that are not
(18:29):
even in Russia. It's almost like there's this kind of
understanding now that this shit is happening, and people don't
want to be involved. I don't know, I feel like
maybe that might be because it's not just oligarchs now right. Obviously,
the kind of sad oligarch monika is because a lot
of oligarchs were falling out of windows and the state
(18:52):
was saying, oh, they were just depressed, or the police
were saying they would depressed. Oh yeah, hah, sad oligarch.
But of course there's a lot of people that are
maybe not necessarily in the bracket of oligach, but they
are definitely political, their power brokers, they're attached to the state.
It feels as if they're going to go for anybody.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Now.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I don't know. I don't know if it's a thing
of connecting dots that you see or if it's actually
happening that way. But the recent one, for example, the
old fella that died from the mushroom poisoning attached to
Ross Cosmos. There seems to be a lot of tension
around that example. We did the last episode. Okay, it
(19:31):
wasn't Ross Cosmos but a parent company. There was also
a hell of a lot of corruption going on, several
people there dying arrested. No one's saying anything. I feel like,
if my theory is true, I feel like the state
is using this kind of deep state possibly FSB attacks
(19:52):
on their critics or their people next to them that
aren't behaving. Okay, now it's time for a quick ad break.
Well enough for that, Now back to the shore. I
feel like it's extending further, Like the to pus, his
(20:14):
legs are gone from oil and weapons to other industries
that the state controls. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah? And I think I think it'd be several things. Like,
first of all, you know, when we initially started that
oligarch made sense because what brought attention was oligarchs and
people who were more so like easier defined as oligarchs, right,
And that was kind of the start of like what
brought our attention to it to begin with. And they
were like I think I would say like ninety percent
(20:41):
of them were definitely like just playing all oligarchs. And
it's not to say that maybe there were like suspicious
that's happening before that, right, but they kind of brought
that spotlight onto it the war in Ukraine, and then
like all of these deaths happening suddenly. I'm sure like
there were deaths of like minor or smaller kind of
like maybe see eos or kind of these like scientists
(21:02):
that happened, but maybe nobody noticed, right, and then this
attention was brought onto it. Even when I'm working on
these different cases, I'm like, well, does this person count
is an oligarch? Right? Like this does he even count?
Should he be included? I think a lot of times
it's like if they're tied to the state, and if
their deaths are really sus suspicious, it's like, I think
(21:23):
it's worth looking into it. I think part of it
could be that, like before the war in Ukraine, there
was like an illusion of what a great state Russia is,
you know, second and greatest military like economic powerhouse by
its own kind of like that's what it saw itself.
I think most people didn't see it that way, but
Russia wanted to be or at least pretend to be right.
(21:43):
And then I think the failed invasion of Ukraine now
reaching it, like the three Day operation going into like
the third fourth year, I think it kind of shattered
that illusion for the world. But I also think I
think maybe Putin thought that there really were you know,
like they were going to go in in three days.
Like I think he might have believed that because you know,
you're not gonna tell putin Dada. Oh yeah, Actually our
(22:05):
military has been corrupt and I've been sealing money from you.
There's probably a lot of bullshit of like the reports
being sent forward, right, And I think I think the
case we talked about last with the zelenorghs and the
well what is it called Reshetnev, Like, I think that's
kind of it's a good case study for the overall
(22:26):
situation because this kind of corruption is kind of like
you know, taking some money off the top from the budget.
That's very common, and that's just very like standard practice almost,
you know. And I think maybe after seeing these failings continually,
you know, continue failing in Ukraine. But also like there
were reports definitely in the beginning of the war and
(22:46):
like thing this second year. I don't see it as
much now, but like that a lot of like equipment
wasn't up to standard. A lot of things were like
tanks were like fixed and fitted out to you know,
to operate on paper. But then when you go to
the storage, they're all rusting away and the money that
was allocated for that is in somebody's bank account, right.
I think a lot of that is being kind of
(23:08):
like I think the government itself is kind of finding
out just the scale of the corruption and like money
just kind of sinking, and now that they actually need
this money, they kind of need every penny to count
at this point, right, Like they're clearly struggling against Ukraine,
Like yeah, they're making advances, but like how much soldiers
are they're losing, how much money are they spending into this.
I think at this point they need every penny to
(23:29):
count kind of thing. And I think this is where
they come in and they're like okay, like for example,
again going back to Shetny of like okay, we have
this company that's supposed to do our satellites, it's supposed
to help with our targeting, and fifty million rubles just
went to some bullshit media company. You know. I think
they can't sustain this kind of corruption at this point,
and I think that's what we're seeing, Like how they
(23:51):
send somebody from Moscow instead of this seventy year old
guy who was there for I think it was like
two decades. Like he's clearly not doing his job. He's
part of the corruption. We need to like they're like
stealing the holes in the boat right, they're they're kind
of leaking, they're gonna they're they're not getting their results
they want, and they need to patch it up. I
think that's kind of what we're seeing here, and I
think that can apply to multiple cases. I just think
(24:12):
this shading of case was kind of the most most
kind of like out there, Like we have the court filings,
we're seeing that, like multiple people are getting either arrested
or under criminal investigations for stealing money, and like a
very open and clear case of what's happening. But there's
no way that that's a unique case or like, oh,
this is like a once in a million kind of thing,
(24:35):
Like this is pretty standard across Russia. And I think
they're realizing that they can't keep you know, this war
and keep their economy going with all this corruption, and
they're trying to fix it up. And I guess maybe
some of the ways of fixing it is getting rid
of some people who you know, like kind of worked
against the state, Like it's trees and right, kind of
stealing money, delivering goods that aren't good and just delivering
(24:59):
like on pay You're like, yeah, yeah, everything's good, we
have this. I don't know, like weapons system, or we
have these I have this like munition, and then you
get delivery and it's half missing, or it's or it's
like rotting or you know, like old stuff that know
what you paid for. I think it's catching up to
them and they're trying to kind of clear house.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I think that's exactly what's happening in my so on
my notes, so I got like pretty much the same theory. So,
I mean, again, this is a theory we don't know
for some but I feel like if you look at
the way Putin insulated himself with s men right again,
he didn't I mean, okay, three days, four days, whatever
(25:39):
the actual thing was, they essentially did not think this
would happen. And I don't think anyone thought this would happen.
I saw some smart, respected journalists and analysts at the
time being like, wow, Ukraine has been invaded. It's all
over and lo and behold. You know, Ukraine fought back,
of course, with a lot of help from the West,
but Ukraine has really held it up. Things will look
(26:00):
bad on the front lines. I've got friends out there,
and things are doing very badly on the front not
necessarily just because of Russian firepower, often because of corruption
on the front lines as well on the Ukrainian side,
but that's another story. But things are bad, but still
they are resisting, they're still holding up. And Putin has
made a you know, a really miscalculated move here, and
(26:22):
I really do believe that it's because people told him like,
it's all going to go fine. This is always the
quandary of the tyrant. If you act like a tyrant,
people around you are scared to tell you what's really
going to happen because they don't want to fall out
of favor. And I really think that's what's happened. We've
seen Putin get rid of certain corporal, certain military men
that would have been helping them. We saw the absolute
(26:43):
madness with a progosion who you know got toasted in
the plane. Well, an accident. We all know what happened there.
It's very clear. We covered it in season one. And
I think you're right. I think he's kind of got
to a point where he's gone, right, this is not
how it was meant to go. He's reshuffled things. He said,
let me look at this, let me look at that.
(27:04):
And again, you're right, people that were maybe within an
industry like Russia. Nev like, oh, it's you know, it's
satellite systems. Glossnos, it's like the GPS system. They're not
necessarily directly thinking about the soldiers on the front line
that are invade in Ukraine. However, Putin will be, people
attached to him will be if they look, oh right,
(27:24):
this this satellite business that is meant to be creating
a good radar for our soldiers. Oh, there's literally billions
of rubles have gone. Literally almost a billion dollars in fact,
was essentially pilled for the way. No one really knows
where it's all gone. Several people have been arrested involved there,
as we know. The head of account at Rashiat Nev
(27:48):
committed suicide, maybe by proxy, maybe someone got to him.
And it's that thing where well, yeah, you're essentially now
stopping your country winning the war. That's what could be
in his mind. This is so bad, this corruption is
so bad that you're directly involved in stopping the country
(28:08):
winning the war. Of course they're not winning the war
because of many different factors. But if you are the
kind of tirant minded megalomaniac that I think it's clear
Pooting is again most Western leaders are the same, just
from a different avenue. But I think it's clear that's
what Putin is. And yeah, it's gonna look like right,
you know, you're gonna feel my wrath. I really think
(28:29):
that's what's happening. I think it's spread to different sectors,
and I think it's almost this kind of blood for blood,
you know, like, okay, well this many of our troops died.
And I can link it in a way, however esoteric
you want to do it. I can link it back
to the amount of money you've stolen. Okay, well, blood
(28:49):
for blood. Your head will roll as well. And you know,
if we look at what happened to so many reporters,
so many politicians, even if you look at the madness
with navalni Vignenko, you know, poisoning people across the world.
I don't think it's at all a stretch to say, yeah,
(29:12):
Putin is probably or maybe not poohing, but people around
him are probably not just clearing shop as I feel
like a lot of it was in Season one. I
think now this is almost a war within, like an
offensive against these people that might be seen as traders.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, definitely, it's kind of giving this like whatever kind
of reminds me of is the kind of post World
War One Germany where the military blamed you know, the
home front for losing the war. This is kind of
what it's feeling like, Like maybe Putin sees the failure
is like, well, it's not that the Russian military is bad.
It's not that we're like, you know, a bad military.
(29:47):
Is that we were failed by all these corrupt CEOs
and all these industries that aren't doing they're all that
aren't giving their all. Like we're actually like the military
is fine, but we just need like support these people
who failed. They were stealing money, they weren't delivering contracts,
they weren't you know, fulfilling the like whatever, like refurbishments
of like different vehicles and stuff. And Yeah, at this point,
(30:10):
it's like who do you blame? Right, Like you imagine
you're like a security service person, Like on their Putin
You're like you're hearing his pissed he needs to find
somebody who to blame. Like maybe you'll find who to blame, right,
You'll you'll find the somebody to fall on the sword
instead of yourself. Right. I think that's kind of the
environment he created, like I think any of the dataship
(30:30):
has that, you know, if he can just get pissed
and like fire people, put them under arrest or even
get them killed, put them on a goolag like navoliny rate.
You don't want to be You kind of want to
give him somebody to be angry at rather than him,
like maybe lashing out whoever's closest to him. So it's
like you start looking for like, yeah, like where where
is you know, where's the issue? Was it the arms
(30:52):
not being like up to standard or they're not being
enough of like like the contract wasn't filled out because
half the money's gone to somebody's pocket. I think I
think I feel like it would create like a rippled
through the system where everybody's kind of like panicking. They're like,
well shit, I don't want to be the one that's
taking the fall for this because like I also think
for Putin, the war is more like ideological at this point,
(31:12):
whereas a lot of people in the system were just
there for the money, you know, and they're I think
you've saw like a lot of reports were like oligarchs
and like some higher ups weren't happy with the war.
In Ukraine because it just interrupted their like their money making, right.
I think they were satisfied with selling oil kind of
getting their money through whatever means they were doing it,
and this war in Ukraine kind of jeopardized that. And
(31:35):
I think there, I just think a lot of people
there aren't as like ideologically driven as Putin is with
kind of restoring the Soviet Union and having like an
empire or Russia be like this great nation. I think
they were just happy to be there for the money.
But now Putin's ideology is overtaking that, and they're like,
oh shit, okay, we got we gotta save our ass.
(31:55):
We gotta like show Putin that we're committed. And then
some people have to go as like you said, like
a blood for blood, like who's gonna who's gonna pay
for this? And who's gonna answer for our failures kind
of thing.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, totally, And if even if you put it on
like a kind of macro level, right, like let's say,
I don't know, you need some building work done in
your house, and get you get the building work done,
and then each time it's not really working and you're like,
what the fuck is happening. I've spent all this money,
what's going on? And then you find out one of
the contractors is stealing a bit of the dough and
(32:30):
doing a half fast job, but just so we can
make a little bit extra, right, you find out, you
get rid of that contractor like you're out here, what
the fuck are you doing? Times a thousand and put
a war and put one of the most powerful countries
in the world, with the leader being a complete authoritarian
happy to kill Tyron. It makes sense. It makes sense
that he's gone, Okay, you'll learn you'll be so scared
(32:53):
to do this in future because you might actually die.
And I can really see that being a possibility. One
one last thing. And I don't want us to think
we're too fucking important. I know journalists have a real
sometimes an ego complex, like they think the work is
so huge, But do you think people in the Kremlin
are at all aware of this series we're doing. I
(33:15):
think it's possible if someone's gone, what the fuck, like
what is this? Not that they care? Not that like, oh,
they're gonna come after us, Like why would they give
a fuck? Like they do this themselves. A lot of
these deaths are kind of with a nod too. Yeah,
we did that. But yeah, do you think they know
about this?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Uh? Yeah, I don't know. I thought about that too.
I mean it would be nice to think of putting
sitting there and he's like got it wrong, and then
he's like, oh, you're getting close on that one.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah right, Like who these little dickheads, like why are you?
Like the last season when we spent like fucking two
weeks looking into the moldings of a knife to prove
it was like from the military. I could imagine someone
like being tasked to listen to it and being like
fuck or just being like not wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And they're like, oh hot, hot, cold cold.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It would make sense, right, Like there must be the
department when they have to kind of I mean we
know it for a fact, you know, with like bot
farms and like trying to influence stuff, there is definitely
a part of the Kremlin, as with any government, is
completely tasked with influencing stuff abroad and keeping track. That's
why you get, you know, I don't want to talk
anyone's name, but that's why you get kind of alternative
(34:20):
media that we're very against. Put in linked wars who
suddenly went to Moscow, got a load of dough and
came back flipped and did the other thing and started
doing the propaganda for Moscow. I think there must be
someone keeping track of that shit. I reckon it's possible
they've at least heard.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Of it, definitely, I think so. I mean they have
whole dedicated like departments and like you said, bot farms
and other like kind of internet like cyber stuff, right
tracking and spreading misinformation and paying different media. I think
we had here in Canada a lot of like conservative
links or like old right linked influencers are not creators
(34:59):
who were like being paid by the Kremlin. Right, They're
very much like in like I guess could say they're
advanced in that sense, like they they have a pretty
deep kind of like understanding of how it works how
to influence things online. And Yeah, I think I think
they definitely at least heard of it, right. I think
they probably would have checked out to see, like is
(35:19):
this concern? Do we need to care about this? I
think a lot of the time, just ignoring it would
probably be best for them because like either like if
they do anything related to this, it's like almost like
like legitimizing it. I guess, right, I think they can
be like, oh, just let them talk, let them like,
let them do what they think they're doing, and like
(35:41):
doesn't bother us. Again, It's like for them, it's like,
you know how a lot of the time the Kremlin
will put out like just a bunch of different narratives
and it's kind of twisting and it contradicts itself. Like
that's kind of the point. You put out so much
information from all different perspectives that the person is like, well, shit,
I don't know what to believe. And I I think
that's kind of where it is, where it's like they
(36:03):
just don't care. They just need people to be confused
and not know what's happening. I think the limited information
is kind of doing its own work. It's like if
if there's nothing to report on, then who cares. Right,
we can't find anything at this point pretty much, it's
really hard to find like more details. It's hard to
find any court cases and information on it. So I
(36:23):
think that kind of fixes itself in a sense because
it's like you only know as much as we want
you to know, and yeah, I don't know. I mean
we'll see, maybe we'll have like a somebody reach out
to us be like, hey, comrade, we're listening the worry
I love.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
The word, or I'll just get like a cheeky polonium
tea like one day from the cafe. Fuck that. Yeah,
I think you're right, though. It's like like if you
look up, for example, like Litvinenko, Right, so he wrote
the book Blowing Up Russia, which essentially, with tons and
tons of evidence, exposed that it's highly likely that the
Kremlin was setting up the bombs that detonated in Russia
(36:58):
and then blamed it on the Chechens as a way
to create public support for invading Chechnya. That's a big
fucking deal. He was a Russian uh citizen, and so
I completely understand. It's very sad, but I completely understand
why they went for him. But I do think you're right.
(37:18):
I think probably someone's looked at this and like dickheads,
like you know what I mean, even if they're like
I dare say, they're kind of interested as well in
a way, just on a personal level, because if you
look at all the comments on anything in Russian, the
reports on any of this stuff, even now, you can
just tell the citizens, no, this is nonsense, Like they're
laughing they're like, wow, another one. Oh he tripped and fell.
(37:39):
Oh he fell out of a window. They're so clumsy.
Like we're still seeing that, right. People know, or at
least they suspect that it's bogus.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, one hundred percent, Like I see it on every article,
like even as recently as like the ones from the
past month, like from October. People are like, oh, right,
like sure that that was an accident or oh you
know some people are like yeah, that's what they deserve.
They were stealing or whatever, like they like where you know,
they'll say like it's a Sudas suicide, it's an accident,
and they'll be like no, no, the state is cleaning
(38:07):
up and they're doing good. So that you kind of
get all perspectives on that. I also think it's a
bit of a different time, right. I think at this point,
the government is not as concerned with looking good, you know,
like back in two thousands when the whole thing with
Chichina and the bombings happened, it's like Putin was still
kind of solidifying power orreas. At this point, I think
it's such a stranglehold that it doesn't really like nothing's
(38:29):
gonna shake it from the outside especially. It also might
have been kind of more kind of threatening because this
is like a Russian reporter, right, that was in Russia,
and kind of I feel like, I feel like they're
more concerned with their domestic audience and they don't really
care what the West thinks. Right, the West is the enemy,
(38:50):
the West is this is that like they don't don't
they don't really need to save face with the West,
especially at this point where they're in the full on invasion.
You know, they're saying that they're not out a war,
would you there word with NATO, But it's just like
NATO's being sneaky and like there's like videos of like
oh yeah, like American commandos were found in like in
like Ukraine fighting against Russia. It's like, right, you know,
(39:13):
they're kind of past the it's just Ukraine. They're they're
on full on like yeah, it's NATO fighting US.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I know, way to say face, Yeah, that's totally it,
Like the vibrus shifted. There's never gonna be kissing makeup
situation here, at least not for not for this regime,
not for the next decade. It's going to take something massive,
And I think you're right they're just like, eh, fuck it.
It is what it is now. You know, we're at it. Sergio.
It's been a pleasure working with you again and we'll
(39:43):
hammer away at the next five cases we've got left.
Thanks very much, Mine speak. So you've been listening to
sad Oliga Season two, Produced by H eleven Studios for
Cool Zone Media. Writing, editing, producing, concept and recording by
(40:04):
myself Jake Hanrahan. Research and reporting by Sergei Slipchenko, me
and Victim Mihail. Executive producing by Sophie Lichtman. Music by
Sam Black, artwork by George Jutefu. Soundmixed by Splicing Block.
(40:27):
See my other projects at Hanrahan dot tv. Get me
on social media at Jake Wonder School Hanrahan. That's h
A N R A H A M
Media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Something strange is going on.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Another member of the Russian elite has been found dead.
Reports suggests that he fell out of a window, poisoned
with mushrooms.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Died of heart failure, died.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Of carbon monoxide poisoning. How comes you are they?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Dozens of Russian oligachs, politically motivated millionaires have died in
the space for three years, most of them in suspicious circumstances.
Many have hidden links to the Kremlin. This is sad
Oligach season two, an ongoing investigation into these recently dead
Russian power brokers. Sad Oligach is created by me Jake
(00:42):
Hanrahan and my Ukrainian colleague, Sergey Slipchenkong. This is a
H eleven studio and Coolso Media production. We're now halfway
through season two of sad Oligach, so this episode is
(01:03):
an interlude of sorts. As you can probably imagine, the
work that goes into this project is absolutely massive. We're
knackerd We're essentially fighting an uphill battle against Kremlin state media,
FSB interference and a huge Russian wall of silence. It's
(01:25):
all become extremely difficult to navigate, especially for season two.
We also don't have the resources to spend months on
the ground in Russia. I actually can't even go to
the country, and as a proud Ukrainian, Surgery is of
course not about to jump on a flight to Moscow.
(01:46):
So for this interlude, we want to share with you
some of the behind the scenes struggles of what you
could call the sad Oligach extended universe. Now, this is
not to be like, oh for us. The point I'm
making is things have shifted massively since when we first
started reporting on this in twenty twenty two to twenty
(02:08):
twenty three. I think that in itself is a big
indicator of what's going on with this possible deep state
Russian conspiracy to take out perceived enemies of the state.
So me and Surgery sat down to discuss all of
this going forward. When we first started this project two
(02:31):
years ago or now, it definitely was not easy, but
I feel like it was a lot easier perhaps than
it is now. This second season, it's just been chaos,
trying to dig into stuff. Add one and two together.
It's been a lot. What would you say has been
the hardest part this series? Like, what's been more difficult
(02:54):
than it was previously.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Honestly, it's like it almost seems like people are maybe
tired of this or bored of it in a sense,
like it lost its novelty or something. Because a lot
of these stories I'm looking at, like articles, like even
like English media or like Western media and Russian media,
it almost seems like they're it's like lost its novelty again, right,
a lot less details. I mean, with all of these stories,
(03:19):
there's practically no updates at all. It's usually like, oh,
like the guy hung himself and yeah, there's no updates.
You know, with the previous stories, like so the first
season was like what twenty two the deaths were from
like twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, right, there was
a bit more details. They would dig in a bit more.
(03:42):
You'd get maybe like oh, like the police were investigating,
and like the case is open and they're doing something.
Now it just seems to be like the bare minimum.
It's like, oh, this person was working at this office,
they did this thing, and now they're dead. It's really
like it's almost like a little blurb at this point.
And you know, on one hand, you could say maybe
(04:02):
some of the deaths are less notable. You know, we
had like Pregosion, we had like Rapaport, like these big
profile cases, but we've had some pretty big profile cases
in the second season as well. So it's not to
say that like, oh, these people are less interesting or
less important, like I would say, you know, it depends
(04:23):
on the case by case, but some of these people
are just as big as the previous cases we covered.
But the information is just really hard to find. I
don't know if it's you know, intentional censoring or kind
of like the government being more the Russian government being
more kind of like maybe kind of like selective with
what to announce, on what to say, or maybe it's
(04:45):
just a genuine kind of like getting tired of it
kind of thing, right, like a fatigue. But the overall
effect is there's just way less information, way less details.
I feel like the most details I find is independent
like telegram channels posting stuff. Maybe people who were like
walking by it like a like a death right, like
(05:08):
some citizens came over and filmed it and then they
send it to a telegram channel. Like that's where I
find the most information. Like the the guy that like
allegedly shut himself with a shotgun that was only because
somebody stopped behind his car and like filmed it, right,
and that's all I was kind of that was like
the epitome of the reporting that we saw from that.
The actual news outlets didn't they get into anything past that,
(05:31):
and it's just kind of tough finding anything.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I definitely agree. I think that's a good point.
I don't know if it's fatigue Ukraine fatigue, which I
think is a knock on effective it And I say
that and I don't mean it that way because it
sounds brutal, but unfortunately, I think the way the press is,
especially with war and conflict, it will focus wholeheardly on
something that they feel people will read and get clicks on,
(05:58):
as opposed to what information should we be letting the world? No,
you know what I mean. I feel like there's a
very big shift in journalism in general in that way.
And I feel like there was a lot of attention
on Ukraine of course for the first year, massively rightly so,
and then the second year at Wayne and now I
feel like it's even less and hand in hand, yeah,
(06:20):
the press is definitely a lot less interested. I don't know,
do you think it may be linked to that? It
feels like that to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Me, it could definitely be an. I mean, it can
entirely blame them. It's like the first time Ukraine hit
a I don't know, like something in Crimea, or when
it invaded Kursk, right, Like those are exciting things, new things,
but if you look at it, like if you follow
with day by day, it's a lot of the same
kind of happening, Like how many times can you say,
you know that Ukraine hit oil refinery in Russia. A
(06:50):
lot of people don't know where it is. They just
hear like a different city or maybe like a target,
like the target was a far distance away, so that's interesting.
But other than that, it's you know, it's really kind
of same thing over and over again, like how many
times can you report on it? And I think that's
kind of what's happening here. You know, another guy thought
out the window, another person hung themselves, and especially with
(07:11):
them giving so little details, it's almost like they wanted
to be boring, like as boring and uninteresting as possible, right,
And I think it's like the only thing that's changing
is the names basically maybe the name of the city
and then maybe like one or two details around it
even like you remember some of the first that's we'd
have a death and there would be a note, and
we'd have like a picture of the note or at
(07:32):
least that transcribing of the note written out. Now it's like, oh,
he left the note, but let's say we don't know
what they wrote. They kind of don't publish that anymore.
It almost seems like they kind of like don't want
attention on it, and like they kind of want to
kill the interest before it kind of gets out there
and people start looking into it more.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I think you're right, but I think regarding the Ukraine thing,
it's almost a problem with the media not necessarily what's happening.
You are right, like, there's only so many times you
can say this front line got breached and blah blah.
Unless you're like kind of you know, kind of conflict
anoraks as we are. It's not that interesting to your
average person. However, there are so many stories within that
(08:12):
that could be told. You know, I know so many
reporters that are out there finding really interesting human stories.
You know, Granny is on the front line. She's turned
her house into like a makeshift hospital for soldiers, and
you know, stuff like this, and I feel unfortunately there's
a lot less funding for that style of reporting. I
think the two go hand in hand. It's kind of
not enough shocking new things are happening, but there's also
(08:35):
not the resources to tell the more deeper stories out there.
For example, I can't see anyone else would have done,
you know, like I did with Frontline Huligan when we
were out there trying to find out, you know, what
was the makeup of the territorial forces, which obviously, by
the time we finished editing, the war had fully stied.
(08:56):
I feel like there's two things going on there. But
definitely the side of things with the media is crazy.
For example, when we did like episode one of season
one that we did so Vasilli Melnikov, the guy who
allegedly murdered his old family and killed himself Nizgy Novgorod,
(09:16):
that very nice area in Moscow where a lot of
these oligs actually had strange deaths. You know, there was
so many details, Like you said, there was I think
there was a note with that. There was the knife
that he allegedly did it with. There were scenes photos
from the crime scene. There was even one of the
other deaths where the guy had you know, cut his
(09:37):
wrists and he was in the bath and there was
even images from the bathroom this season. I don't know
about you. Obviously were halfway through, but we've done a
lot of research already for the rest of it. I
haven't seen a single crime scene photo regarding any of
these deaths. I've not even seen a photo of evidence
of what happens. At best, we get some kind of
(09:58):
long range show of like authorities pulling a body out
of somewhere. Maybe okay, now it's time for a quick outbreak,
all right, not for that, now back to the shore.
(10:20):
I feel like there's been a kind of concerted effort,
maybe straight from the Kremlin. I mean, the press is
mostly controlled by the Kremlin, so maybe they kind of
understand not to but I do feel like there's almost
a concerted effort to be like, right, we're going to
continue if this is what happening, which I think it's clear,
is we're going to continue taking out people that mess
(10:41):
with the state mostly. I think this kind of points
back to stealing and spying. We're going to take them
out the way we do it, but there's going to
be a lot less details. I don't know, am I
being paranoid.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I know, I think that's right. Like as you mentioned
with Melnico, No, it was the very first one call
his name, but yeah, he's the guy that was in
the gas Promb's nest. Right that episode, we had a
photo not of the bathtub. We had a photo of
him next to the bathtub, right like clearly a crime
scene photo. He's laying on the floor. I believe it
was face down. You can see the cast on his
(11:14):
leg that they attributed, like that he was in too
much pain and that's why he did it. We have
like a full on photo of him laying there like
clearly dead, you know, on the floor, Like the crime
scene is right there. It's not like it's not like
a distance photo or anything like. It's it had to
have been taken by like I assume some kind of
you know, like police examiner, like crime scene investigat or
(11:35):
something like that. We had that online within like the day,
if if not like hours, you know, And then like
you said in the in this recent instances, the only
time we see a crime scene is if the public
posts it. We don't see anything like extra like there's
no police like statements or posts about it. It's all
(11:56):
very like we're just investigating, like we're investigating. Usually they
say there's no criminal like element or whatever, and that's it,
and then like like finding updates has been hell, I
can't find anything. The only thing that's like posted, like
besides the like breaking news story or like, oh, this
person died, it's always like, oh, Russian oligarchs are dying
(12:16):
and here's a list of them. Were just like regurgitating
the information we already have. Like there's barely any updates,
barely anything kind of being followed up on. Can't find
any like maybe like police or like like kind of
like government like statements or reports. Nothing comes up in
a sense, maybe they just don't want it to come up, right,
(12:39):
let's kind of like it happened, let's let's forget about it.
Let's not bring attention to it. We don't want want
people asking questions. Yeah, I think it's just like again,
I don't think you're being crazy. It's it's pretty obvious
that the information is very limited. I mean Russia does
this with other avenues, you know, with the war. If
you're talking about how the army is struggling, or if
(13:00):
the government's not doing enough for the military or whatever,
like that's a big no no. So why wouldn't the
same apply to you know, potentially government sponsored or you know,
ordered murders and stuff like they definitely would have want that.
It's like, why would you want to write you don't
want to kind of like people know if that's enough
for them to know, you don't need to have all
the details of who, how and all that.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I don't know how much luck you've had in Russian,
and I know you say you're not fine a lot,
but even updates from series one I in English, I
have not found anything. I even tried to reach out
again to Vasily Melnikov's son, if you remember, he was
kind of shouting off online saying like my dad didn't
kill himself. I'm pretty sure the state did this. And
(13:45):
before I reached out to him, like I found him
via LinkedIn and then via Facebook. Nothing, just just absolutely zero.
He's gone completely silent. What about Russian? In Russian, if
you found like anything from any of the guys from
season one.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Nope, again, so pretty much just like here's what happened,
the death happened, and that's it, and just radio silence
after that. After trying for quite a few days to
just find anything. I thought, like, you know, well, Russia,
like okay, let's say they're suppressing it, right, Like, but
what about the Western cases? I looked into those, so
like there was like the Protestenia what was like triple
(14:23):
homicide suicide where he killed his wife and daughter in Spain.
Then there was Dan Rapaport who fell out of his
apartment in Washington, d C. Who else is Zeleno Zeleanov?
He died in France where he like tripped over his
railing and like hit his head on the car or whatever.
No updates pretty much for Rapaport. I found that, like
(14:45):
his investigation was, it's basically so like it's open, but
they're not investigating it unless something new comes up. So
they can't close it officially because they don't have a
specific manner of death. So at this time it's like
undetermined and the death is listed as sudden or unexplained.
And the report from the chief Medical Examiner, so this
(15:07):
was in November, a few months after his death in
August twenty twenty two. I believe it says multiple blunt
force injuries due to a fall from height, Like that's it,
like he fell out of his apartment. That's it. They
and they have this like conclusion, but they also don't
have a definitive answer. So because of that, it's kind
(15:27):
of like a limbo. Apparently the case is open, but
it's not being investigated, so they also don't have like
so it's not closed, so you can't access the details
of the investigation because it's technically ongoing. So it's kind
of stuck in this limbo where nobody can access it,
but nobody's investigating it, so which is kind of weird.
I could also find an update that his wife was
(15:48):
allegedly looking to do like a because you say, like
a personal investigation. She ordered his blood to be tested
for like texacology report to kind of I guess see
maybe he was at very at least maybe he was drunk,
or if he has something in a system. But there
was no updates since it was just like a mention
that she wanted to do that, and she I think
it was like immediately after his death she was very
(16:11):
very certain that there's no way that it was a suicide.
And then but that was really the only case where
I could find updates even in the West. There was
another one in UK. Was it Michael Watford. I think
his name is same thing. No updates. A lot of these, interestingly,
are ruled like suicides and they're closed, so there is
(16:32):
no way of investigating it further, right, because they're kind
of they kind of kind of like a close and shutcase,
so there's no really like like they're not intending to
follow up on it at least seems like they just
rule it a suicide and the case is closed.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
How I'm stronger the press over there right now, it's
gotten worse, I reckon, like, I don't think there's any
real room for independent media out there. Is that, and
even when there is, they still know, like we can
get this close to the edge, but we can't go
over it. It's still kind of self censorship. Just in case.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You know, it's not even just the media. I mean,
I think yesterday on Twitter or an X, people were
posting photos of a new Russian history book where they're
talking about the Special Military Operation, how it started because
NATO has biolabs in Ukraine, right, all this kind of
like propaganda that they've used to justify it. I mean,
(17:27):
if it's coming into history books, right, if they're willing
to kind of spread that lie in their official like
I think it was a Grade eleven or something. History
books and the media is known to be on the
very strict tight control. The narrative is typically very like
manufactured and decided on by the state, Like I don't
(17:48):
see why they wouldn't also control this narrative, right, And again,
it's not even controlling it. There's just no information. It's
not like it's not like there's a wealth of information
that is out there and they're trying to suppress it,
like itses doesn't come to begin with, Like I'm finding
it really hard to find stuff for the new cases
and basically no updates on old cases.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, I've found as well people are a lot less
interested in talking about it. So I've been trying, you know,
I've been reaching out to people like hey, can I
get like an opinion on this or someone from an
area will say yeah, sure, but I'm not going on
the record, you know, Like there's just not like even
people that are not necessarily attached, people that are not
(18:29):
even in Russia. It's almost like there's this kind of
understanding now that this shit is happening, and people don't
want to be involved. I don't know, I feel like
maybe that might be because it's not just oligarchs now right. Obviously,
the kind of sad oligarch monika is because a lot
of oligarchs were falling out of windows and the state
(18:52):
was saying, oh, they were just depressed, or the police
were saying they would depressed. Oh yeah, hah, sad oligarch.
But of course there's a lot of people that are
maybe not necessarily in the bracket of oligach, but they
are definitely political, their power brokers, they're attached to the state.
It feels as if they're going to go for anybody.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Now.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I don't know. I don't know if it's a thing
of connecting dots that you see or if it's actually
happening that way. But the recent one, for example, the
old fella that died from the mushroom poisoning attached to
Ross Cosmos. There seems to be a lot of tension
around that example. We did the last episode. Okay, it
(19:31):
wasn't Ross Cosmos but a parent company. There was also
a hell of a lot of corruption going on, several
people there dying arrested. No one's saying anything. I feel like,
if my theory is true, I feel like the state
is using this kind of deep state possibly FSB attacks
(19:52):
on their critics or their people next to them that
aren't behaving. Okay, now it's time for a quick ad break.
Well enough for that, Now back to the shore. I
feel like it's extending further, Like the to pus, his
(20:14):
legs are gone from oil and weapons to other industries
that the state controls. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah? And I think I think it'd be several things. Like,
first of all, you know, when we initially started that
oligarch made sense because what brought attention was oligarchs and
people who were more so like easier defined as oligarchs, right,
And that was kind of the start of like what
brought our attention to it to begin with. And they
were like I think I would say like ninety percent
(20:41):
of them were definitely like just playing all oligarchs. And
it's not to say that maybe there were like suspicious
that's happening before that, right, but they kind of brought
that spotlight onto it the war in Ukraine, and then
like all of these deaths happening suddenly. I'm sure like
there were deaths of like minor or smaller kind of
like maybe see eos or kind of these like scientists
(21:02):
that happened, but maybe nobody noticed, right, and then this
attention was brought onto it. Even when I'm working on
these different cases, I'm like, well, does this person count
is an oligarch? Right? Like this does he even count?
Should he be included? I think a lot of times
it's like if they're tied to the state, and if
their deaths are really sus suspicious, it's like, I think
(21:23):
it's worth looking into it. I think part of it
could be that, like before the war in Ukraine, there
was like an illusion of what a great state Russia is,
you know, second and greatest military like economic powerhouse by
its own kind of like that's what it saw itself.
I think most people didn't see it that way, but
Russia wanted to be or at least pretend to be right.
(21:43):
And then I think the failed invasion of Ukraine now
reaching it, like the three Day operation going into like
the third fourth year, I think it kind of shattered
that illusion for the world. But I also think I
think maybe Putin thought that there really were you know,
like they were going to go in in three days.
Like I think he might have believed that because you know,
you're not gonna tell putin Dada. Oh yeah, Actually our
(22:05):
military has been corrupt and I've been sealing money from you.
There's probably a lot of bullshit of like the reports
being sent forward, right, And I think I think the
case we talked about last with the zelenorghs and the
well what is it called Reshetnev, Like, I think that's
kind of it's a good case study for the overall
(22:26):
situation because this kind of corruption is kind of like
you know, taking some money off the top from the budget.
That's very common, and that's just very like standard practice almost,
you know. And I think maybe after seeing these failings continually,
you know, continue failing in Ukraine. But also like there
were reports definitely in the beginning of the war and
(22:46):
like thing this second year. I don't see it as
much now, but like that a lot of like equipment
wasn't up to standard. A lot of things were like
tanks were like fixed and fitted out to you know,
to operate on paper. But then when you go to
the storage, they're all rusting away and the money that
was allocated for that is in somebody's bank account, right.
I think a lot of that is being kind of
(23:08):
like I think the government itself is kind of finding
out just the scale of the corruption and like money
just kind of sinking, and now that they actually need
this money, they kind of need every penny to count
at this point, right, Like they're clearly struggling against Ukraine,
Like yeah, they're making advances, but like how much soldiers
are they're losing, how much money are they spending into this.
I think at this point they need every penny to
(23:29):
count kind of thing. And I think this is where
they come in and they're like okay, like for example,
again going back to Shetny of like okay, we have
this company that's supposed to do our satellites, it's supposed
to help with our targeting, and fifty million rubles just
went to some bullshit media company. You know. I think
they can't sustain this kind of corruption at this point,
and I think that's what we're seeing, Like how they
(23:51):
send somebody from Moscow instead of this seventy year old
guy who was there for I think it was like
two decades. Like he's clearly not doing his job. He's
part of the corruption. We need to like they're like
stealing the holes in the boat right, they're they're kind
of leaking, they're gonna they're they're not getting their results
they want, and they need to patch it up. I
think that's kind of what we're seeing here, and I
think that can apply to multiple cases. I just think
(24:12):
this shading of case was kind of the most most
kind of like out there, Like we have the court filings,
we're seeing that, like multiple people are getting either arrested
or under criminal investigations for stealing money, and like a
very open and clear case of what's happening. But there's
no way that that's a unique case or like, oh,
this is like a once in a million kind of thing,
(24:35):
Like this is pretty standard across Russia. And I think
they're realizing that they can't keep you know, this war
and keep their economy going with all this corruption, and
they're trying to fix it up. And I guess maybe
some of the ways of fixing it is getting rid
of some people who you know, like kind of worked
against the state, Like it's trees and right, kind of
stealing money, delivering goods that aren't good and just delivering
(24:59):
like on pay You're like, yeah, yeah, everything's good, we
have this. I don't know, like weapons system, or we
have these I have this like munition, and then you
get delivery and it's half missing, or it's or it's
like rotting or you know, like old stuff that know
what you paid for. I think it's catching up to
them and they're trying to kind of clear house.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I think that's exactly what's happening in my so on
my notes, so I got like pretty much the same theory. So,
I mean, again, this is a theory we don't know
for some but I feel like if you look at
the way Putin insulated himself with s men right again,
he didn't I mean, okay, three days, four days, whatever
(25:39):
the actual thing was, they essentially did not think this
would happen. And I don't think anyone thought this would happen.
I saw some smart, respected journalists and analysts at the
time being like, wow, Ukraine has been invaded. It's all
over and lo and behold. You know, Ukraine fought back,
of course, with a lot of help from the West,
but Ukraine has really held it up. Things will look
(26:00):
bad on the front lines. I've got friends out there,
and things are doing very badly on the front not
necessarily just because of Russian firepower, often because of corruption
on the front lines as well on the Ukrainian side,
but that's another story. But things are bad, but still
they are resisting, they're still holding up. And Putin has
made a you know, a really miscalculated move here, and
(26:22):
I really do believe that it's because people told him like,
it's all going to go fine. This is always the
quandary of the tyrant. If you act like a tyrant,
people around you are scared to tell you what's really
going to happen because they don't want to fall out
of favor. And I really think that's what's happened. We've
seen Putin get rid of certain corporal, certain military men
that would have been helping them. We saw the absolute
(26:43):
madness with a progosion who you know got toasted in
the plane. Well, an accident. We all know what happened there.
It's very clear. We covered it in season one. And
I think you're right. I think he's kind of got
to a point where he's gone, right, this is not
how it was meant to go. He's reshuffled things. He said,
let me look at this, let me look at that.
(27:04):
And again, you're right, people that were maybe within an
industry like Russia. Nev like, oh, it's you know, it's
satellite systems. Glossnos, it's like the GPS system. They're not
necessarily directly thinking about the soldiers on the front line
that are invade in Ukraine. However, Putin will be, people
attached to him will be if they look, oh right,
(27:24):
this this satellite business that is meant to be creating
a good radar for our soldiers. Oh, there's literally billions
of rubles have gone. Literally almost a billion dollars in fact,
was essentially pilled for the way. No one really knows
where it's all gone. Several people have been arrested involved there,
as we know. The head of account at Rashiat Nev
(27:48):
committed suicide, maybe by proxy, maybe someone got to him.
And it's that thing where well, yeah, you're essentially now
stopping your country winning the war. That's what could be
in his mind. This is so bad, this corruption is
so bad that you're directly involved in stopping the country
(28:08):
winning the war. Of course they're not winning the war
because of many different factors. But if you are the
kind of tirant minded megalomaniac that I think it's clear
Pooting is again most Western leaders are the same, just
from a different avenue. But I think it's clear that's
what Putin is. And yeah, it's gonna look like right,
you know, you're gonna feel my wrath. I really think
(28:29):
that's what's happening. I think it's spread to different sectors,
and I think it's almost this kind of blood for blood,
you know, like, okay, well this many of our troops died.
And I can link it in a way, however esoteric
you want to do it. I can link it back
to the amount of money you've stolen. Okay, well, blood
(28:49):
for blood. Your head will roll as well. And you know,
if we look at what happened to so many reporters,
so many politicians, even if you look at the madness
with navalni Vignenko, you know, poisoning people across the world.
I don't think it's at all a stretch to say, yeah,
(29:12):
Putin is probably or maybe not poohing, but people around
him are probably not just clearing shop as I feel
like a lot of it was in Season one. I
think now this is almost a war within, like an
offensive against these people that might be seen as traders.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, definitely, it's kind of giving this like whatever kind
of reminds me of is the kind of post World
War One Germany where the military blamed you know, the
home front for losing the war. This is kind of
what it's feeling like, Like maybe Putin sees the failure
is like, well, it's not that the Russian military is bad.
It's not that we're like, you know, a bad military.
(29:47):
Is that we were failed by all these corrupt CEOs
and all these industries that aren't doing they're all that
aren't giving their all. Like we're actually like the military
is fine, but we just need like support these people
who failed. They were stealing money, they weren't delivering contracts,
they weren't you know, fulfilling the like whatever, like refurbishments
of like different vehicles and stuff. And Yeah, at this point,
(30:10):
it's like who do you blame? Right, Like you imagine
you're like a security service person, Like on their Putin
You're like you're hearing his pissed he needs to find
somebody who to blame. Like maybe you'll find who to blame, right,
You'll you'll find the somebody to fall on the sword
instead of yourself. Right. I think that's kind of the
environment he created, like I think any of the dataship
(30:30):
has that, you know, if he can just get pissed
and like fire people, put them under arrest or even
get them killed, put them on a goolag like navoliny rate.
You don't want to be You kind of want to
give him somebody to be angry at rather than him,
like maybe lashing out whoever's closest to him. So it's
like you start looking for like, yeah, like where where
is you know, where's the issue? Was it the arms
(30:52):
not being like up to standard or they're not being
enough of like like the contract wasn't filled out because
half the money's gone to somebody's pocket. I think I
think I feel like it would create like a rippled
through the system where everybody's kind of like panicking. They're like,
well shit, I don't want to be the one that's
taking the fall for this because like I also think
for Putin, the war is more like ideological at this point,
(31:12):
whereas a lot of people in the system were just
there for the money, you know, and they're I think
you've saw like a lot of reports were like oligarchs
and like some higher ups weren't happy with the war.
In Ukraine because it just interrupted their like their money making, right.
I think they were satisfied with selling oil kind of
getting their money through whatever means they were doing it,
and this war in Ukraine kind of jeopardized that. And
(31:35):
I think there, I just think a lot of people
there aren't as like ideologically driven as Putin is with
kind of restoring the Soviet Union and having like an
empire or Russia be like this great nation. I think
they were just happy to be there for the money.
But now Putin's ideology is overtaking that, and they're like,
oh shit, okay, we got we gotta save our ass.
(31:55):
We gotta like show Putin that we're committed. And then
some people have to go as like you said, like
a blood for blood, like who's gonna who's gonna pay
for this? And who's gonna answer for our failures kind
of thing.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, totally, And if even if you put it on
like a kind of macro level, right, like let's say,
I don't know, you need some building work done in
your house, and get you get the building work done,
and then each time it's not really working and you're like,
what the fuck is happening. I've spent all this money,
what's going on? And then you find out one of
the contractors is stealing a bit of the dough and
(32:30):
doing a half fast job, but just so we can
make a little bit extra, right, you find out, you
get rid of that contractor like you're out here, what
the fuck are you doing? Times a thousand and put
a war and put one of the most powerful countries
in the world, with the leader being a complete authoritarian
happy to kill Tyron. It makes sense. It makes sense
that he's gone, Okay, you'll learn you'll be so scared
(32:53):
to do this in future because you might actually die.
And I can really see that being a possibility. One
one last thing. And I don't want us to think
we're too fucking important. I know journalists have a real
sometimes an ego complex, like they think the work is
so huge, But do you think people in the Kremlin
are at all aware of this series we're doing. I
(33:15):
think it's possible if someone's gone, what the fuck, like
what is this? Not that they care? Not that like, oh,
they're gonna come after us, Like why would they give
a fuck? Like they do this themselves. A lot of
these deaths are kind of with a nod too. Yeah,
we did that. But yeah, do you think they know
about this?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Uh? Yeah, I don't know. I thought about that too.
I mean it would be nice to think of putting
sitting there and he's like got it wrong, and then
he's like, oh, you're getting close on that one.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah right, Like who these little dickheads, like why are you?
Like the last season when we spent like fucking two
weeks looking into the moldings of a knife to prove
it was like from the military. I could imagine someone
like being tasked to listen to it and being like
fuck or just being like not wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And they're like, oh hot, hot, cold cold.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It would make sense, right, Like there must be the
department when they have to kind of I mean we
know it for a fact, you know, with like bot
farms and like trying to influence stuff, there is definitely
a part of the Kremlin, as with any government, is
completely tasked with influencing stuff abroad and keeping track. That's
why you get, you know, I don't want to talk
anyone's name, but that's why you get kind of alternative
(34:20):
media that we're very against. Put in linked wars who
suddenly went to Moscow, got a load of dough and
came back flipped and did the other thing and started
doing the propaganda for Moscow. I think there must be
someone keeping track of that shit. I reckon it's possible
they've at least heard.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Of it, definitely, I think so. I mean they have
whole dedicated like departments and like you said, bot farms
and other like kind of internet like cyber stuff, right
tracking and spreading misinformation and paying different media. I think
we had here in Canada a lot of like conservative
links or like old right linked influencers are not creators
(34:59):
who were like being paid by the Kremlin. Right, They're
very much like in like I guess could say they're
advanced in that sense, like they they have a pretty
deep kind of like understanding of how it works how
to influence things online. And Yeah, I think I think
they definitely at least heard of it, right. I think
they probably would have checked out to see, like is
(35:19):
this concern? Do we need to care about this? I
think a lot of the time, just ignoring it would
probably be best for them because like either like if
they do anything related to this, it's like almost like
like legitimizing it. I guess, right, I think they can
be like, oh, just let them talk, let them like,
let them do what they think they're doing, and like
(35:41):
doesn't bother us. Again, It's like for them, it's like,
you know how a lot of the time the Kremlin
will put out like just a bunch of different narratives
and it's kind of twisting and it contradicts itself. Like
that's kind of the point. You put out so much
information from all different perspectives that the person is like, well, shit,
I don't know what to believe. And I I think
that's kind of where it is, where it's like they
(36:03):
just don't care. They just need people to be confused
and not know what's happening. I think the limited information
is kind of doing its own work. It's like if
if there's nothing to report on, then who cares. Right,
we can't find anything at this point pretty much, it's
really hard to find like more details. It's hard to
find any court cases and information on it. So I
(36:23):
think that kind of fixes itself in a sense because
it's like you only know as much as we want
you to know, and yeah, I don't know. I mean
we'll see, maybe we'll have like a somebody reach out
to us be like, hey, comrade, we're listening the worry
I love.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
The word, or I'll just get like a cheeky polonium
tea like one day from the cafe. Fuck that. Yeah,
I think you're right, though. It's like like if you
look up, for example, like Litvinenko, Right, so he wrote
the book Blowing Up Russia, which essentially, with tons and
tons of evidence, exposed that it's highly likely that the
Kremlin was setting up the bombs that detonated in Russia
(36:58):
and then blamed it on the Chechens as a way
to create public support for invading Chechnya. That's a big
fucking deal. He was a Russian uh citizen, and so
I completely understand. It's very sad, but I completely understand
why they went for him. But I do think you're right.
(37:18):
I think probably someone's looked at this and like dickheads,
like you know what I mean, even if they're like
I dare say, they're kind of interested as well in
a way, just on a personal level, because if you
look at all the comments on anything in Russian, the
reports on any of this stuff, even now, you can
just tell the citizens, no, this is nonsense, Like they're
laughing they're like, wow, another one. Oh he tripped and fell.
(37:39):
Oh he fell out of a window. They're so clumsy.
Like we're still seeing that, right. People know, or at
least they suspect that it's bogus.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, one hundred percent, Like I see it on every article,
like even as recently as like the ones from the
past month, like from October. People are like, oh, right,
like sure that that was an accident or oh you
know some people are like yeah, that's what they deserve.
They were stealing or whatever, like they like where you know,
they'll say like it's a Sudas suicide, it's an accident,
and they'll be like no, no, the state is cleaning
(38:07):
up and they're doing good. So that you kind of
get all perspectives on that. I also think it's a
bit of a different time, right. I think at this point,
the government is not as concerned with looking good, you know,
like back in two thousands when the whole thing with
Chichina and the bombings happened, it's like Putin was still
kind of solidifying power orreas. At this point, I think
it's such a stranglehold that it doesn't really like nothing's
(38:29):
gonna shake it from the outside especially. It also might
have been kind of more kind of threatening because this
is like a Russian reporter, right, that was in Russia,
and kind of I feel like, I feel like they're
more concerned with their domestic audience and they don't really
care what the West thinks. Right, the West is the enemy,
(38:50):
the West is this is that like they don't don't
they don't really need to save face with the West,
especially at this point where they're in the full on invasion.
You know, they're saying that they're not out a war,
would you there word with NATO, But it's just like
NATO's being sneaky and like there's like videos of like
oh yeah, like American commandos were found in like in
like Ukraine fighting against Russia. It's like, right, you know,
(39:13):
they're kind of past the it's just Ukraine. They're they're
on full on like yeah, it's NATO fighting US.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I know, way to say face, Yeah, that's totally it,
Like the vibrus shifted. There's never gonna be kissing makeup
situation here, at least not for not for this regime,
not for the next decade. It's going to take something massive,
And I think you're right they're just like, eh, fuck it.
It is what it is now. You know, we're at it. Sergio.
It's been a pleasure working with you again and we'll
(39:43):
hammer away at the next five cases we've got left.
Thanks very much, Mine speak. So you've been listening to
sad Oliga Season two, Produced by H eleven Studios for
Cool Zone Media. Writing, editing, producing, concept and recording by
(40:04):
myself Jake Hanrahan. Research and reporting by Sergei Slipchenko, me
and Victim Mihail. Executive producing by Sophie Lichtman. Music by
Sam Black, artwork by George Jutefu. Soundmixed by Splicing Block.
(40:27):
See my other projects at Hanrahan dot tv. Get me
on social media at Jake Wonder School Hanrahan. That's h
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Rewarded for bravery that goes above and beyond the call of duty, the Medal of Honor is the United States’ top military decoration. The stories we tell are about the heroes who have distinguished themselves by acts of heroism and courage that have saved lives. From Judith Resnik, the second woman in space, to Daniel Daly, one of only 19 people to have received the Medal of Honor twice, these are stories about those who have done the improbable and unexpected, who have sacrificed something in the name of something much bigger than themselves. Every Wednesday on Medal of Honor, uncover what their experiences tell us about the nature of sacrifice, why people put their lives in danger for others, and what happens after you’ve become a hero. Special thanks to series creator Dan McGinn, to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society and Adam Plumpton. Medal of Honor begins on May 28. Subscribe to Pushkin+ to hear ad-free episodes one week early. Find Pushkin+ on the Medal of Honor show page in Apple or at Pushkin.fm. Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkin Subscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plus
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