September 18, 2025 • 46 mins
From thirty strangers to the top of the West, San Diego FC’s debut season has been shaped by one man: Head Coach Mikey Varas. This week, Behind the Flow steps off the pitch and into the dugout to uncover the story of San Diego’s first head coach — his Chilean-American roots, his coaching journey, the inspiration he’s drawn from football’s biggest names, and the philosophy that drives his bold style of play.
Adrian García-Márquez is joined by ESPN’s Katia Castorena and San Diego Sports 760’s Darren Smith to unpack Varas’s impact on and off the field. We unlock the archives to revisit interviews with Mikey over the past year, reflect on how he’s grown into the role, share what we’ve observed at training sessions, and recount some of our own experiences with him. Guardian journalist John Muller also joins us to discuss his in-depth article on San Diego’s record-breaking build-up play — and why it already ranks among the very best in world football.
From locker-room moments to leadership lessons, we ask: What makes Mikey Varas so effective, and just how far can he go in the game?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
First, you have to feel this kind of football deep, deep,
deep in your bones, because you take a lot of
risks right, and you have to believe in it. And
if the coaches don't believe in it, the players won't
believe in it. And if the players don't believe in it,
it won't work.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Adrian Garcia Markis and this is Behind the Flow,
the podcast where we dive in deep, week by week
into the heart of San Diego. He's very first season
in Major League Soccer. In recent weeks, we've explored how
San Diego scores goals and how they defend them. Now
it's time to meet the person orchestrating it all, the
coach who took thirty strangers six months of preseason and
(00:38):
turned them into one of the boldest Major League soccer
clubs we've ever seen. In this episode, you're going to
hear from Mikey himself talking about his Gilane American roots,
the journey through youth and national team coaching, and why
San Diego already feels like home.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
The first two most important ingredients for success are talent
and characters slash motivation. So as a coach, I want
talented guys who are hungry and have good character and
if we have that then I'll never complain.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We'll also hear from journalist John Muller, who's feature in
The Guardian compared by us this daring style to some
of the biggest names in world football.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
San Diego is less likely to launch the ball along
from the goalkeeper than PSG or Man City or Barcelona.
That is just a remarkable amount of trust to put
in a young player.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Beyond the tactics.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
What kind of leader is he and how far can
he take San Diego and himself.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
That's all coming up. I'm behind the floor.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm Adrian Garcia Markis and I'm joined as always by
Kantia Castorna and Darren Smith. Great to see you both,
so I should say, you know, Gantia and I are
speaking to you guys from biv Las Vegas. What Darren's
in Imperial Beach, California, enjoying the surf. We're here getting
ready for Monday night football.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Oh, you've got a couple of high rollers here behind
the What are you guys doing there, Vegas?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Baby?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Tell me all about the comps that you guys are
getting out there in Sin City.
Speaker 6 (02:05):
Vegas, Baby, Not much I mean, we're here for work
American football, as marker producer was saying, or football Americano,
some NFL, and then at football tonight.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm excited, always excited that the autumn wind is about
to get blasted into another area.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Code.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, send the Raiders away. That's Charger Raiders, that's coming up.
That's why we're here. But we're also here for SDFC
and wherever you are, thank you for joining us. We're
back in action, guys. After the international break, and it
was the visit of Minnesota, they dropped purple rain on us.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Guys. They did, they did.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
There was a title fight in Vegas, right where you
guys are, and we talked about styles and how styles
make fights. You have two completely different styles between Minnesota
United and San Diego Football Club.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
One side is obsessed with possession, the other one couldn't
care less intricate passing on one side, we don't give
a rip on the other. So it was the style
that made the fight. And give credit. Minnesota United came
into Snapdragon Stadium and walked out with all three points
in a huge match in the Western Conference.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
Of course, in true as EFC styled a dominated possession
sixty one percent compared to Minnesota's thirty nine percent. And
then San Diego completed five hundred and fifty eight passes
against two hundred and eighty three of Minnesota's completed passes.
And yet seventy minutes San Diego dominated. And the story
(03:30):
as we see the final score three to one to Minnesota. Incredible.
Speaker 7 (03:34):
What happened in that game.
Speaker 8 (03:35):
I could not believe in stick a listen.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
Losado truest to play it by tahit That what a
size who would have been one of the candidates for
going to the season.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I mean the football right now, axtacular.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
Sign foe my coy kind.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Of get a plucked the job say the game, I
ain't say club player takes one out of the year.
Speaker 8 (04:03):
Golf fucking fun.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
That pad a great run at the goalkeeper horn on
his left foot, goes to.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Goal with good hunts.
Speaker 8 (04:09):
Brian to Amazona, hevny times they connect.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
We'll say I'm just over.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Them.
Speaker 7 (04:15):
Not what goes on on.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
It's on set pieces.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
That was always going to be their avenue to get
into the game.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
They look a little bit shell some fright out San Diego.
They're on the back foot here again. But Hobby cuts inside.
Speaker 7 (04:26):
On the lift foot out long right shot the goalkeepers out.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
That does say that it's right now.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
How the puddle for top foot in the west, it's
just getting started that I'm tugget now.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
He's far to pick.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
That's what goes well to rise high amongst the venders.
We have to give a ton of credit to Dane
Saint Clair. He's the goalkeeper from Minnesota United who's Canada's
number one. He was amazing And you can't convince me,
you know, as mentally tough as we think s DFC
is that that isn't psychological when you you go out
of the break and you've outshot them twelve nothing or
(05:02):
twelve one, whatever the statistics were at the half. And
then you know, to Katia's point, you look up and
in the seventy fourth minute, how are we trailing this match?
I mean, we've had all the possession, we've made all
the passes, we've taken all the shots, and yet we're
trailing now against this team which just squeezes the life
out of us.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
We were praising as EFC's defensive style last episode, contrary
to what their style usually is, and then when we
compared it to other teams. Minnesota United know exactly who
they are, and that's something completely opposite because they are
comfortable letting you have the ball, taking all those chances,
and then they know they can rely on their system.
(05:40):
I guess they got lucky on that corner cake that
weird bounds at the far post when that first goal
for them goes in, and that changed everything. And their
second goal is also And what to say about the
one from the middle of the field. That was just insane.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, that was a revenge shot for Andre's doing that
to them back in Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Guys. It was, you know, kind of like going back
to the.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
American football stuff that we were talking about here at
the beginning. Good old coach Dennis Green said, they were
who we thought they were. Yes, exactly who we thought
they were. They were going to defend, but they were
able to sneak a couple of those in. So it
ended three to one, Visitors, And uh, what a goal there,
Like like you said that one at the halfway line,
(06:22):
but I'd like that Jet Bank put a little makeup
on this and made it three to one. But at
the end of last week's episode, we asked for predictions
and Darren said.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I'll go to Minnesota United three to one. Just a
lake goal from one of the SDFC players returning from
international break. You know that they come off the bench
and they put one in there at the end. Wait
a minute, here is that aid? I didn't say that,
did I?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
That is?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
That has got to be AI. I would never make
such a prediction on behind the floor, would I?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Darren Domini?
Speaker 5 (06:55):
I can't imagine that.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Darren Domis.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yes, I might have gotten that one backwards. I might
have been saying I'm gonna go SDFC. Well whatever, I
will take it, I will take it. And especially since
you guys are in Vegas, you let me know what
you want to invest in.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, I was about to make it out.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I guess yeah, right, roam with some lucky numbers that
amount of you know what, technically, just so we could
put this on record technically, and this is something we observe.
This is crazy with all the changes in the history
of sports. Guys, we work for an NFL team in
this case, there's absolutely zero room for gambling when we're
in Vegas. So I'm about to take those numbers out there.
(07:31):
Maybe when I get back to Southern California and go
to one of those casinos out there. But playing with
house money, I think is the right term. When it
comes to Minnesota United, they were just ready, ready, just waiting, waiting,
then chilling, chilling. They hit the jackpot at the end
and they walk out of the building and took as
dfc's money. But that's all right now, guys, we're recording
this show twenty four hours away, maybe a little bit
(07:52):
more from the Baja Cup and at the point of
you know, in other words, by the time they air
this show, we're already going to know the So but
one thing's for sure, none of this happens without the man.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
At the touch line.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So today we're shining the spotlight on San Diego's first
ever head coach, Mikey bout Us. In the last few weeks,
I've asked you for your favorite goals and defensive moments,
but Mikey's such a charismatic figure. I think we've all
got our favorite Mikey moment. So Katia, I'm going to
start with you. What's yours.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
It's a very personal one. Is the day that I
met Mikey. So they organized this media match before the
season even started and This was back in December. So
then we're out there by a snapdragon playing some football
all the media members, and little did we know, Mikey
about us was there watching all of us, and I'm
(08:47):
just like playing my heart out. I hadn't played in
so long, out of shape, but I didn't care. I
was just having a good time. And then he's like, oh,
I've been watching you guys, nice.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
To meet you.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
I'm as EFC's head coach. And I'm like, oh my god,
how embarrassing. But oh well, we were just having a
good time. But that's my favorite Mikey moment.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
And Darren, what about you? What was or has been
a standout requ of Mikey Boudis. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
I mean I could rattle off a whole bunch here,
but I would say the first time that I met
mike it was right after he was introduced, and it
was well before there were any players, and there was
a supporter event in downtown San Diego at a place
called Courtyard and it was just for the supporter, so
it was a private event. I was hosting it, and
(09:32):
I was queueing a Q and a session with Mikey
and Tyler Heaps, and so you know, fans had a
chance to interact and we're learning a little bit about
these guys. And after the event was done, our supporters
were there and they start going into some of their
songs and they bring their drums. Mikey comes off the stage,
goes right into the supporter's mix, grabs the drumsticks, and
he's asking these guys, how do I play this song?
(09:53):
What are the lyrics to this song? Teach me this
right now? Like he was so invested in learning the
supporter culture before before we even had supporter culture. And
I was like, Oh, this guy, like he gets it.
He just understands it. And I always remember that I
have a picture on my phone of him playing those
drums at this event just because he wanted to learn
what it was that was making our supporters group tech.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
For me, guys, there have been several moments, but there's
one before the season that truly stands out for me.
I guess it was pretty much the introduction for Frontea
SD as they finally put together, and that's something you
guys could catch also here on behind the flow on
the first ten shows, where Sep Morua had to kind
of show up all the supporter groups put them all
(10:36):
in the one so that they can coexist and just
be part of the beginning and such an important thread
to what they've been weaving here at San DIEGOEFC. Anyway,
So they're under the mirf Dragon at snap Dragon Stadium
and the underbelly where at the bottom they're at the
elevators pretty much area, going into the locker room area.
(10:56):
Mikey comes out with Jet Bank and some of the
players and then the Frontea as these supporters were also there.
So it was kind of like a like in a movie,
you know, like when there's a truce between two gangs.
It was really really cool to watch, but it was
very heartfelt because of what Mikey said to the supporter group.
And I had never seen a coach direct himself that
way to a fan base, especially at the beginning. I
(11:18):
know in football, the culture is way different than in
the NFL. In baseball, you're not going to see a
manager of baseball go talk to the fans and see
what they feel. No way they're gonna do that. But
Mikey is different. One of those moments where it almost
brings a tear to your eye to see this team
connect with you and say, guys, you're just as much
a part of this as Evening Losano. And I think
that that meant so much to the supporter group. And
(11:40):
look look what they've been able to accomplish because of
that nurturing. And it all started with mikey Abadas, you know,
just depositing that faith in the fan base.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
I don't want to sound overly dramatic about it, but
he uses a term that I now use in my
everyday life about growth mindset, approaching the sport, approaching training,
just approaching life with a growth mindset. And I hear
myself saying that, not just in the microphones. I hear
myself saying that when I'm having dinner.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
One of my favorite quotes I was during an interview
that we had with him on this podcast, and then
he said, for you to enjoy and be passionate about
what you do, what you love, and enjoy those moments,
you have to write the difficult moments too, and know
that they're going to be those lows that are part
of it that nobody talks about. And then you're like, yes.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, but there's something crazy here, God damn that we
need to just discuss and.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Throw it out there.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You see, we might be taking cues from Mikey as
far as you know, the philosophies of life and being
relentless and just having that growth mindset there. And but
Mikey is also becoming a fashion icon thanks to Darren
smith He's basically copying your wardrobe. I know you've given
him a couple of ideas there on T shirts. Next thing,
(12:52):
you know, Mikey's supporting them. Darren Smith Man, you got
to get yourself your own line in Milan.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I don't know about that. I mean, I've just noticed,
and I mean I did ask him, I out of curiosity.
It was sort of like a like a throwaway question
at the end of an interview for our pregame show Adriana,
and I said, who's picking out your clothes? Like are
you putting some thoughts into this? And he said, yeah,
he goes, I don't pick them out, he said, his
wife and Sonny the equipment manager, they give him some options.
(13:19):
But you know, this is what is important is when
you talk about his clothing, he said, I want to
represent myself in a way that is a reflection of
San Diego. I want to be casual. I want to
represent the club and I want to reflect the community.
So you know, he does what he thinks. You know
how it is that that San Diego see themselves right
like how we all see ourselves. And again, it just
speaks to the mindfulness that he approaches almost every aspect
(13:39):
of life with which I do really appreciate from him.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's simple enough, guys that we can just say he
feels the flow.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
We go with the flow.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
Adrian, your next assignment is to come up with this
poster with fashion trends by Darren and Mikey.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
All right, you see, and this goes back to last
week when we were talking about the backline boy is
coming up. We're gonna hear the words from the wizard himself.
We're going behind the curtain. See what he's gonna tell
us after the break, We're gonna dig.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
In to who is Mikey.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
About us and the journey that he's taken and what
drives him every single day at San Diego f c's
first head coach. And we're back on behind the flow.
(14:34):
Mikey is a man who many feel like they know,
but when he first joined s DFC, he was relatively
unknown to many. At is unveiling, he was asked about
his life up until taking the hot seat a year
ago in September twenty twenty four, stake a listen.
Speaker 8 (14:52):
Well.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, born
and raised. My father's from Chile, South America. My mother's Americans,
dual national, multicultural, dual lingual family. I got the love
for the game from my father one hundred percent and
started playing from the youngest of ages. I think I
got the bug most specifically when I saw my first
(15:15):
South American qualifier live. I was fortunate to watch Chile
play pataway and watching the fans and how much passion
there was in the stadium.
Speaker 8 (15:24):
I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Played at every youth level and then had the opportunity
to train with Santiegra Wonders, but never made it as
a professional. Started coaching really young about a year and
a half after college, and worked at every level. I've
coached five year olds, boys and girls all the way
up to professional players with the national team that played
(15:46):
Champions League games. I've been fortunate enough to coach some
amazing people and really high level players. Funny enough, I
coached Naomi, Grandma and Terna Davidson who just want to
go medal at the U nineteen level at ECNL. After that,
I went to Sacramento Republic, which was an amazing opportunity
(16:07):
for me to join the professional game. I coached the
U fifteen boys and was the director of twelve to fifteens.
That was an amazing experience with a really passionate fan
base and club. Went on to FC Dallas after that
with the academy, coaching the U fifteens, sixteens and seventeens
before being moved up to the first team with Luci Gonzalez.
(16:28):
Had three amazing seasons with them before moving on to
the U twenty national team. That was an amazing journey,
just going through a qualifier and going to a U
twenty World Cup with a really special group of people.
After the World Cup, I was promoted up to the
men's national team as an assistant. Spent the last year
working with those players and feel very blessed to have
(16:52):
shared my time with them and feel the tremendous amount
of growth that I had as a coach, just working
with players that played Sampions League weekend and week out,
play at the highest level and are really the pinnacle
of American players. As soon as I found out San
Diego got a team, I immediately started looking into it
because my wife's originally from San Diego. We met and
(17:15):
fell in love in San Diego, and it's a it's
a city that was always home that I never actually
lived in. So many friends that I made here, and
so much of the culture that just felt always right
to me.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I've heard a lot about Mikey.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
We've seen a lot of Mikey, but never really knew
the full story there Darren and Kantient. But it's good
to hear his links with the finest city.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
I thought that was a huge leg up to learn
that that he actually had been connected to the city
through marriage, and not only that, because you know that's
one part of it. So you figure, Okay, he's familiar,
he knows his way around. The guy's not going to
get lost on the freeways. But he also had a
really in depth knowledge the two freeways. Yeah, well, he
did know a lot about the soccer culture. First conversation
(18:02):
I had with him, he was talking about soccer's, he
was talking about Wave, he was talking about San Diego, Loyal,
he was talking about nineteen oh four, Like there were
just a lot of things that came from Mikey that
I was like, this guy is going to be a
really good fit here.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
What I also really liked and the fact that he
is also this person that is bicultural, bilingual, that understands
what it's like to have two countries, two cultures, his
Chailian roots and his American roots, and because of that,
he can connect so well with what the city of
San Diego stands for. And I think even in other sports,
(18:40):
for example in LA and the reason why someone like
Kobe Bryant had such an impact on all the fans
in the city was also because of that. You know,
he made the effort to speak the language, and that
makes the bond even stronger.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I'm glad you brought up Kobe being Bryant, because God
was that guy that challenged Kobe to do a full
interview in Spanish opening night when we were first starting
off with Time Warner Cable. It was the first ever
all Spanish fully in Hispanol Laker channel, and Kobe was
our first guest for that opening night, and I was
to sit down with Kobe to do the interview, and
then I asked him, I go, oh yeah, because that's
(19:15):
what I would call me. I'm not sure you get
you want to do this in Spanish at least okay,
because I know you've thrown out phrases. I know you've
said a couple of things here in Spanish. Year you
tried to communicate, let's do this, bro, I'm dropping the challenge.
He's like, noa na nah, I'm not doing that tonight.
But give me one year. Just give me one season.
Come next year on opening night, let's remix this. We'll
redo this, and I will do the entire interview in Spanish,
(19:39):
no English, all this final Fast forward a year later,
we're sitting.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
There, it's media day.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Gellna mancho ready he goes bambos and we knocked it
out and it was just so impressive. But again, it's
because of that nurturing of the fan base. It's understanding
who's out there in the stands, who's buying the tickets,
who's watching the games, listening to the games, and.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
How you're just that lightning rock. You need to be
that player.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And in this case, the manager in Mikey Banas, and
this is a guy.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Who's really truly had to craft himself.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
See now, Mikey also spoke to us about life as
a soccer manager, where he gets his inspiration and the
names he reels off, since we're dropping names are pretty special.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The older I get, the more I recognize that I'm
a mixture of every person that I've ever interacted with.
Like that's what I know for a fact. When I
first started coaching in the local club, I coached that
there were four coaches in that club that were much
better than me. And ultimately what I did was I
hung around, I listened, I studied, I took their ideas,
(20:46):
I adapted those ideas and then I personalized it. But
ultimately I'm them and they are me. I'd have to
mention Pep Guardiola was clearly an inspiration for everybody in
my generation. Then you have to say, well, if Pep
Guardiola was an insp than Johann Kroife is definitely in inspiration,
and then Randess michaels will have to be inspiration as well.
And then of course I'm Chilean Americans. So Marcelo Bielsa,
(21:09):
the work he did with the national team was massively
important for our country. I mean, he turned us into
a world world class international team in two years and
I know Jrges and PAULI was benefited the most from
the Copa America wins, but let's be honest here, Bielsa
laid the foundation for all of that. I would say like,
(21:29):
these are the coaches I learned the most from in
terms of tactics, methodology, being organized. But then all of
a sudden, the more experience I get and the more
I study, then I start gravitating towards different type of
coaches because I start thinking all these guys are like geniuses,
the tactical geniuses. I don't view myself as that. That's
not my profile. I'm happy to learn from them and
(21:51):
take ideas from them, because I think I'm very good.
Speaker 8 (21:53):
I have a good learning ability.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But then I started looking at these Ancilotes club Manuel Pelligrini,
where everybody that's played for them says like they love
playing for this person, and you start to see, Okay,
there's this other side of it, which is this human side, right,
this leadership side. And then I start to study these
guys and I personally think that my profiles some sort
(22:16):
of mixture, because the other thing with some of those
profiles is they're also bigger than life characters and I'm
a pretty calm person, you know what I mean. I
like being in the background, and ultimately what I think
is I'm a bit of a mix. You know. I
believe that the best teams play because the individual person
and player is taken care of. This is where it
(22:37):
starts for me. And then but I have to have
enough clarity about tactics and game model to put them
in conditions where they can be successful beyond coaches. The
best way I could describe what has inspired me in
terms of leadership is this, like taois leadership model that
I heard and it stuck with me forever. And basically
it's as simple as just saying.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
To lead like water.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So water is like my biggest inspiration at the moment.
And the reason is is because water is clear, so
you have to be clear when you lead. It's also transparent,
so it's honest. Water is powerful when it needs to be,
yet flexible and mouldable so it's liquid, right. It can
take many many forms. Water is mostly unseen. Most of
(23:18):
the water that exists is underground. We don't see it,
so it's not a superstar profile. Water is very subtle.
And then ultimately, what water does is it nourishes people,
which is the most important thing. We can't live without water,
and so I would say, like, as of right now
where I'm at in my career, I have these models
of coaches who I've really leaned on, and then I'm
kind of a balance between wanting to make sure the
(23:40):
team plays really good football and have a high knowledge
of that, but make sure that we take care of
the human side, nourishing players so that they want to
give more to the club and to each other.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
All right, So that was in November. Mikey Bodis. I
love that he's got that like sort of a Taoist
sort of idea philosophy, like to take it's Bruce Lye.
I know he stole the frontil, but it's be like water,
my friend.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
That's a nice blend he's got going on.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Definitely, he draws that inspiration from Guerriola and crow If
and the structure, the style of play, but then also
that human side when we see why he's able to
manage the youngsters in such a way, and you hear
names like Carlo Ancelotti and Jurgen Club and these managers
(24:26):
that have had such a successful career in Europe because
not only what they do on the field, but because
they know how to manage those locker rooms and in
Ancilotti's case, not only with youngsters and developing these young
players and young talent, but also knowing how to handle
the egos, because when you're managing those big clubs, that
real Madrids of the world, you have to deal with
(24:49):
the egos. And here in MLS it's a very different experience,
especially when we're talking about a first year team. But
you do have your DPS, you do have players that
have experience that have played in Europe, that I played
in those big clubs, and that's very important knowing how
to speak to those players, but also to the young
academy guys. And when I was looking up Mike's bio,
(25:10):
what really stood out to me. He has a master's
degree in kinesiology with an emphasis in physical education, and
he has a master degree listen to this an organizational leadership,
so you understand also where he's coming from.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
He also is a former yoga instructor, like he is
a yogi. I do consider myself a yogi and I
appreciate what it's done for me in terms of breathing,
what it's done for me in terms of not just
you know, physically, but also mentally. And I love that
about Mikey that he takes that with him into the squad.
You know, there was a time where media is not
(25:46):
allowed to watch all the training, but we're allowed to
go in there for the last fifteen minutes. And they
take us all down there at the end of training
and I was like, Oh, they're all gone. Where is everybody?
Nobody's here, We've missed it. Well, they were there, but
they were all lying down on the ground in savasana.
Corpse pos write what you do at the end of
a yoga class at any session, And he had all
(26:07):
twenty five players lying on the grass on the training
ground because he said, life is a professional athlete's hard.
These guys are going to go into the weight room,
they're going to listen to music, they're going to get
on their phones, they're going to call their people. I
just wanted them to have a little bit of mindfulness
for five minutes.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
What's that quote, a man who has control over his
mind is able to realize its full potential.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
That's him.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yes, yes, and I love it. And remember he's still
a rookie. Head coach.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
In MLS terms, the bravery could have gone absolutely south wrong.
But MLS has eaten up expansion sides before. But it's
not happening to Mikey Wadas because he's flipped the script
on absolutely everyone. And back at the end of July,
we were invited to sit in the locker room ahead
of a coaching session, and here's a little extract of
Mikey giving a team talk and praising players, and it
(27:01):
sounds good.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Take a listen.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
We don't need to be that safe.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
We don't need to receive that ball there, but it's okay.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
We go here.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
I think we do a great job.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Look at that look out for you guys are actually
playing here in that quick distance.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
Foom out right.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
Positive full backs.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
I need to challenge the full backs because you saw
it a little bit.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Yes, they need to make the runs, but also sometimes
they aren't.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Your guys' first priority should need to take this touch,
open your body and live on the farthest line. If
we have these runners here or these runners here, you
need to utilize it because play it for this second plausive.
You can see with the opposite.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Movements that we made that we would make trouble.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
Can we be more than the form these woes?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I love how clippable mikey wadis is locker room moments
that we've heard plenty throughout this season, Darren Smith. But
your thoughts on that locker room moment in particular.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
You're right about it being very clippable, right, like this
is very instagrammable in this in this day and age.
But you know it's just it's very simple, it's powerful,
it's not overly complicated. He speaks with so much clarity,
so obviously it's part of the incredible success.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
That we've had here. And Katya, what about you?
Speaker 6 (28:13):
Funny you say this, Adrian, because back in early August
I asked Mike directly about this how he manages to
see the potential in players.
Speaker 7 (28:22):
Here's what he told me.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
The first two most important ingredients for success are talent
and character slash motivation. So as a coach, I want
talented guys who are hungry and have good character. And
if we have that, then I'll never complain because those
type of players they always get better when given the
right opportunity in the right environment, they shine more often
(28:46):
than not. So ultimately it's about getting to know the
player on a personal level, making sure that they know
that we value them as an individual, we want them
to achieve their goals. That it's about being as clear
as possible with them in terms of what we're looking for,
because this game of football can be played in so
many different ways, but it's important they understand our style
of play. And then it's really important that we give
(29:08):
him an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Talent, character, clarity, opportunity. That's the recipe. And when you
look at Doa for example, or Luca Bombino, you can
see exactly how it's working in practice.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yeah, and a lot of this has to do with
who Mikey is and where he's been in his career right,
having managed the under twenties for the US youth national team,
or being in charge of some academies and Sacramento in Dallas.
You know, the one thing I think we talk about
how consistent the messaging has been, it's the patience. He
will live with mistakes, but what he will not live
(29:44):
with is somebody who's afraid to make them or somebody
who's not learning from them. Right, that's the thing that
really stands out because that's not only football, but that's life.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Growth, mentality, seek perfection. You'll arrive at excellence every single time.
And that's why his leadership keeps coming up, not just
his tactics. The outside the world, guys is noticing as well.
By the way, I noticed they see the batphone ringing
that redline. It's a you're being summoned. It's time for
you to go. You got work to do on Monday
(30:14):
night football.
Speaker 8 (30:15):
I have work to do.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
I'm sorry, guys, so I have to jump out of here.
But we are going to talk more about as DFC
of course as usual next week, and about that fan
connection between the Mexican side of the border and then
San Diego FC and how it's developed that connection also
on the other side.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
One of your specialties, one of many got ays, yes,
win big for us. All right, so got this, got
her assignment for Monday night football. But we're going to
keep telling this story, the inside story. In fact, we've
been telling it. Now the outside is telling it.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
After the Break the Guardians, John Muller on why San
Diego's build up is breaking records and what that says
about my keys ceiling.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Let's go cooling.
Speaker 7 (30:59):
Break Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
In late July, Guardian journalist John Muller wrote a piece
all about San DIEGOFC, looking in particular at Mikey Badis,
his influences and the data behind the team's style. We
caught up with him last week to get his take
on San Diego's success so far.
Speaker 8 (31:31):
My name is John Muller. I'm a soccer journalist.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I worked for years at The Athletic UK writing about
a lot of analytics and tactics, sort of the nerdier
side of the game, and I'm now the founder of
a company called Footie that's building a live score app
that brings club quality analytics to fans. I follow them
mols closely and I have known about San Diego since
they existed, which hasn't been very long. But I was
really impressed very early in the season with how distinctive
(31:56):
their style of play was, which I think is very
unusual for an expansion team to come into the league
with a very clear concept of how they want to play.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
And I found them really attractive to watch.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
There were outliers and all sorts of interesting corrections, and
so I started paying close attention to San.
Speaker 8 (32:09):
Diego and recently wrote about it for The Guardian.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Now this is really interesting, John, What is ASDFC doing
so differently than from the rest of MLS.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Sure, so, I wrote about a few different things in
the article, but I think the easiest starting point is just.
Speaker 8 (32:23):
That San Diego plays a lot in the build up.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Now.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I think most soccer fans probably know what the build
up is, but if you listen to coaches talk about
the game, they'll frequently break it into phases. That's something
that we do with Foodie. We break data on the
game into phases of play. And so when we looked
at phase of play data for the build up specifically,
which is roughly organized possession in a team' zone half
before they get up around the center circle, san Diego
(32:48):
plays more passes in the build up than any team
in MLS history. And you know this is in part
it's because of a continuing trend. MLS plays an average
of two hundred and fifty touches in the build up
now compared to one hundred and fifty ten years ago.
So like the whole league has been moving in this
direction where teams build up more, they high press more
against the opponent's build up. But even in light of
(33:10):
that trend, San Diego are still outliers. They averaged three
hundred and sixty seven build up touches per game, which
is just freakishly high.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
I'm very surprised that they're doing this.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Typically, if you play that many touches in the build up,
you are taking a lot of risks at the back.
Anything that goes wrong is going wrong very near your
own goal, and a lot of coaches don't like that.
They would rather just boot the ball along and then
try their chances and the opponents have. San Diego has,
i think, the opposite philosophy, where they want to draw
the opponent as close to their goal as possible. So
the point of all these passes in the build up
isn't just a play passes near their own goal, take
(33:40):
risks for the hell of it. What they want to
do is draw the opponent out and then attack quickly.
So the other interesting thing that I saw in San
Diego's data, besides all these build up touches, is that
they're also leading the league in touches in the fast
break phase. So when they're coming out of organized possession
into a very rapid attack, so not a counter attack, right,
It's not they just won the ball and they're attacking fast,
but it can look a lot like a counter attack.
(34:00):
Sometimes when they play these build ups, they draw out
the high press and then they attack through it very quickly.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's well documented that as DFC is a right to
dream model, but how much of the success actually comes
down to Mikey's influence? Is he shaping the team in
his own way or just carrying out a system that
was already in place.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I am generally skeptical of the impact of managers on
soccer teams. Data bears out that very frequently we tend
to overrate how important the manager is. But I do
think that particularly with guys who had never played together
before January of this year, bringing them in and getting
them all on the same page, teaching them little patterns,
teaching them how one or another plays, I think that
(34:38):
takes a lot of coordination, a lot of teaching, and
I think that it's evident on the pitch that Mike's
doing a very good job of that. And we hear,
you know, from coaches like BJ Callahan at Nashville, who
worked with Mikey for US Soccer before they both became
MLS head coaches. You know, he talks about what a
great teacher Mikey is and what a great job that
he's doing with his players. San Diego's distinctive and very
well defined style of play anybody at the club. I
(35:01):
think that the folks that write to Dream had been
thinking about how they wanted all of their teams to
play for a long time before San Diego FC existed,
and that gave the club a head start.
Speaker 8 (35:10):
Tyler Heaps talks about how.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Much easier it made his job when he was trying
to build this squad to come into a club that
had a style of play already well defined, that had
specific profiles well defined, so he knew what types of
players he needed to go out and get and when
he was hiring a head coach. Part of the reason
why he hired Mikey, who had never been a club
head coach before. You know, he had coached the under
twenties with US Soccer, but that was his only head
coaching experience that was seen as.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
A risky higher around MLS circles.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
A lot of people didn't necessarily think that he had
the experience to succeed. But Tyler talks about, Look, when
I talked to Mikey, we were fully aligned on style
of play. The way that he thinks about football is
the way that I think about football is the way
the Right to Dream thinks about football.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
And I think that that just makes.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Everybody's job a lot easier when you're trying to build
a club and get everyone on the same page. MLS
roster rules are weird, and they incentivized teams to build.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
In weird ways.
Speaker 8 (35:56):
And one of the weird ways.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
That teams tend to build is they put all of
their money in front line, and then that leaves them
with a very low budget for the back line. And
San Diego the way that they've constructed their team follows
this pattern, maybe even to an extreme. The center backs
are experienced, but the two fullbacks a lot of the
times are teenagers, and the goalkeeper CJ. De Santos had
very little top flight experience before this season. And so
(36:19):
you're taking these players who you know are not veterans
by any means and giving them a whole lot of touches, right,
all those build up touches those involved those back five
players a lot, And so you're trusting the judgment of
a guy like CJ. Dosantos, who I wrote about in
the article Dos Santos does not boot the ball long
at all. To an extent that San Diego's launch rate
for their goalkeeper, which is the percentage of passes that
(36:39):
the goalkeeper hits more than forty yards, is not only
the lowest in MLS, ever, it's the lowest for the
European Big five leagues as well. San Diego is less
likely to launch the ball long from the goalkeeper than
PSG or Man City or Barcelona. That is just a
remarkable amount of trust to put in a young player
and experienced player like Dosantos, and for those teenage fullbacks
as well, right, the amount of pressure that they are
(37:00):
placed under out there against the sidelines, and then they
have to play through that pressure.
Speaker 8 (37:04):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
That was one of the things that Tyler Heaps looked
for when he was trying to build the team was, Hey,
I don't have a lot of money to spend on
these spots, but I'm going to find players who have
shown that they can solve situations under pressure, and then
I'm going to trust Mikey to coach them up in
our style of play.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
Mikey called himself a football.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Junkie, right, and he was able to rattle off all
of these coaches who have influenced him. One of the
first names that you would expect to hear namechecked when
you're talking about a team that likes to build up
is Pep Guardiola, and I think that we can see
specific elements of San Diego's play that have been influenced
by Guardiola, as most modern soccer teams have. Other coaches
that Mikey talked about, he mentioned sorry at Napoli, and
I think that we saw a lot of similarities. So
(37:41):
that team was remarkable for the way that Georgina would
play a thousand short passes at the base of midfield
and then they would attack pretty quickly. Deserve bees Brighton
another one who I think we see a lot of
very specific similarities with the way that San Diego overloads
the space right in front of their center backs right
They bring a lot of bodies into that central space
in the build up, and then they play very short, fast,
(38:02):
third man combinations in order to get past those first
lines of pressure. So I think that Mikey would probably
tell you he's drawing on some things from all of
these coaches.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
So last one, John, how far can Mikey about us
actually go? Could we see him real soon getting that
knock on the door from some European club, mikey Ola.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
If I were a club in Europe looking at MLS
coaches right now, there are two that I would have
my eye on, and Mikey is absolutely one of them.
Wilford Nancia Columbus Crew is another excellent coach, excellent team,
and there are a lot of stylistic similarities between San
Diego and Columbus, and it's evident that both of those
coaches are really good teachers, are really good at getting
their players on the same page. One of the interesting
(38:42):
differences between San Diego and Columbus. Both teams have super
high possession. They're almost tied for the league lead and
possession of MLS. Both teams play a lot in the
build up. Both teams play a fairly central build up.
That's another distinctive feature of San Diego style of play
is that they tend to crowd the middle a lot. Right,
They're not passing out the wings and then up the wings.
They're trying to play through the middle. But where they
(39:03):
differ Nanci and Mikey varis and again this goes back
to the right to dream style of play. San Diego
wants to draw that pressure in and then break quickly,
whereas Columbus, Yes, they play a lot in the build up,
but they tend to circulate side to side and push
the opponent back more slowly than San Diego does, and
so they play the most passes in the league in
the phase after the build up, what we call progression
(39:24):
of foody. So they're kind of setting up shop higher
up the pitch, passing around more like what you would
expect from Men's City and less like what you would
expect from Deserbe's brighton a coach like mikey Varus, I mean,
he's being very successful for sure. San Diego is on
pace to be the best expansion team in MLS history,
and that alone will get you looks as a coach,
that'll get you recruited. But I think that the fact
that his style of play maps on well to how
(39:45):
the best teams in the world play is going to
possibly get him looks from outside of MOLS as well.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's fascinating stuff from John, and he's shown us just
how bold and unusual San Diego's approach really is. And Darren,
looking at San Diego specifically, how much of this season's
success comes down to Mikey's impact.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
A ton and maybe not just because he has the
ability to process all the information that we just heard,
but you know, it's it's also his ability to process
all that information and explain it to the players in
a way that they can understand. We've a ton a
ton of time today talking on this podcast about all
the different elements that make mike Evadis who he is.
(40:25):
But you could have gotten it wrong when you were
thinking about who the first head coach was going to
be in this club's history. Obviously, you know, we all
would agree that this is the perfect person on all
of those levels to get the job done for what
it is that they're asking of him.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, they could have gone and say, you know, the
proverbial low hanging fruit, the star power that was available,
Ugo Sanchez, bra We've heard those names through the wind.
But when we heard Mikey Vadas, we're like, all right,
wait a minute, now, this is an interesting pick here,
Mikey Vadis And from the outside perspective, you know, do
you think he's already edging in to the bigger conversation,
(41:01):
leaving his own imprint on the game.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
Well, It's not every day that you see a first
year Major league soccer head coach written about in these
terms in an international publication like The Guardian. So you
know that's going to catch everybody's eye, whether it's Premier
League or La Liga or wherever they're putting this name
on the radar screen. So I selfishly think, hey, this
(41:28):
is just like our first couple of steps of this
long process, and I would love for Mikey to stick
around for as long as possible, obviously from a selfish standpoint,
but the fact that he is getting this kind of attention,
you know, through the first what two thirds of his
first MLS season, to me just shows you, like, the
ceiling is so high for this guy. It's almost impossibly
(41:50):
been to recognized where it is.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, we've been absolutely impressed with everything that he is.
Mikey about us and Pach watch yourself, Potchetino. He might
just come back into the fold of the US men's
national team, surprise, surprise, But San Diego observers to have
Mikey about us leading the club and it's very first
season with all the challenges still to come. Darren, I
think both you and I agree it's unanimous and Katia,
I know she's gone out, but I.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Know she feels the same way.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Check check check, yes, yes, yes, we're all very happy.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
It's Mikey about us.
Speaker 5 (42:18):
We are, indeed, And you know, sometimes there's that phrase.
I'll take the phrase and turn it around a little bit.
You know, sometimes you find the club, sometimes the club
finds you. And in this case, when Mikey talks about
all the things that are happening, we sayago football club
and write to dream.
Speaker 7 (42:34):
He says.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
The second I heard about this, I knew I wanted
to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
And you know we always say that this is behind
the flow, and the word flow, well, guess what else flows?
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Water?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
And Mikey leads like water clear, flexible, nourishing, refreshing, And
it's why this team is just moving, flowing the guilo
with the winds and the nature and all of the
elements and why the future feels so full of possibility.
Next up, it's a trip to Atlanta United, and remember
(43:05):
that one kicks off much earlier than usual. Atlanta have
built a roster stacked Darren with attacking talent a minuita.
They've got real match winners who could decide a game
in an instant, but Atlanta all foot tended to concede
a lot, especially in the second half. They've given them up,
and that's one of San Diego e fse's specialties. Could
(43:26):
that be an opportunity now for Andres Dreyer to strike Darren?
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Do you think as.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
DFC alters their approach even a little bit or do
they stay relentless, keep flowing like water and go right
at it with Atlanta United.
Speaker 5 (43:39):
I think that they are consistent, They are relentless, and
they are what is that Willie Nelson song on the
road again?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
So this is seven I lack to score my goals
on the road again.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
All right, we're going to pick up three points on
the road again, So seven straight. I like riding trends.
You know, you're in Vegas there, so you know sometimes
when you're on a hot streak, you got a on
the hot streak, and SDFC is on a heater when
it comes to playing matches away from Snapdragon Stadium. So
let's say that seven becomes eight. So I think they
picked back up where they left off when we saw
(44:10):
them at Bemo Stadium, and bringing three points home is
what I'm expecting coming up on Saturday AGM.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
And as Willie Nelson said, I'm on the road again
with all of my friends. Yes, we'll see how far
this journey really goes, starting with Atlanta and with only
three more matches left after that, this is the business
end of the season. And next week, fresh from Hispanic
Heritage Week and Mexican Independence Day and the friendly I'm
(44:38):
gonna say not so friendly, it's gonna be the Bacha Cup.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
It's gonna have some fire against Iaquan. At the Murph Dragon.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
We're gonna explore sdfc's unique relationship, in particular San Diego's
relationship with Mikio. But for now, big thanks to John
Muller for joining us, and of course Go and Darren
together we are the campaign managers for Andres Dreyer's MVP claim.
By the way, so just Darren, do you want to
start sing in the background while I say bye?
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (45:02):
Absolutely, I'm still bullish on him. MVP MVP, and we're
going to see it in Atlanta. Everybody's going to pay
attention to it.
Speaker 8 (45:10):
Now.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
I'm tired of hearing about Lionel Messi. I'm still we're overlooking,
we're looking over our shoulders. At Minnesota United. There's no
doubt about it. We're going to be scoreboard watching here
for the final couple of weeks of this MLS season.
But we have the MLS favorite for MVP and his
name is on Deirstryer.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Mb Paltereo Dara, but don dataa, don deliver some ice
cream in Atlanta, United, Baby, let's go. So we're going
to close it out with Mikey's words since we were
focused on Mikey about us today. Lead like water, that's
Mikey's philosophy. We're going to go with the flow behind
the flow. You've been flowed today ultra extra right.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
All right, Well, thank.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
You for listening, guys, and don't forget to drop us
a follow wherever you listen to your podcast and to
join us as we write out this incredible inaugural sea
for Darren forgot that and everybody that was with us
in our production team. Am Adrian Garcia Marquis, you've been
dipped in Chromina tool and what
First, you have to feel this kind of football deep, deep,
deep in your bones, because you take a lot of
risks right, and you have to believe in it. And
if the coaches don't believe in it, the players won't
believe in it. And if the players don't believe in it,
it won't work.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm Adrian Garcia Markis and this is Behind the Flow,
the podcast where we dive in deep, week by week
into the heart of San Diego. He's very first season
in Major League Soccer. In recent weeks, we've explored how
San Diego scores goals and how they defend them. Now
it's time to meet the person orchestrating it all, the
coach who took thirty strangers six months of preseason and
(00:38):
turned them into one of the boldest Major League soccer
clubs we've ever seen. In this episode, you're going to
hear from Mikey himself talking about his Gilane American roots,
the journey through youth and national team coaching, and why
San Diego already feels like home.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
The first two most important ingredients for success are talent
and characters slash motivation. So as a coach, I want
talented guys who are hungry and have good character and
if we have that then I'll never complain.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
We'll also hear from journalist John Muller, who's feature in
The Guardian compared by us this daring style to some
of the biggest names in world football.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
San Diego is less likely to launch the ball along
from the goalkeeper than PSG or Man City or Barcelona.
That is just a remarkable amount of trust to put
in a young player.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Beyond the tactics.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
What kind of leader is he and how far can
he take San Diego and himself.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
That's all coming up. I'm behind the floor.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I'm Adrian Garcia Markis and I'm joined as always by
Kantia Castorna and Darren Smith. Great to see you both,
so I should say, you know, Gantia and I are
speaking to you guys from biv Las Vegas. What Darren's
in Imperial Beach, California, enjoying the surf. We're here getting
ready for Monday night football.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
Oh, you've got a couple of high rollers here behind
the What are you guys doing there, Vegas?
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Baby?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Tell me all about the comps that you guys are
getting out there in Sin City.
Speaker 6 (02:05):
Vegas, Baby, Not much I mean, we're here for work
American football, as marker producer was saying, or football Americano,
some NFL, and then at football tonight.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm excited, always excited that the autumn wind is about
to get blasted into another area.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Code.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yes, send the Raiders away. That's Charger Raiders, that's coming up.
That's why we're here. But we're also here for SDFC
and wherever you are, thank you for joining us. We're
back in action, guys. After the international break, and it
was the visit of Minnesota, they dropped purple rain on us.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Guys. They did, they did.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
There was a title fight in Vegas, right where you
guys are, and we talked about styles and how styles
make fights. You have two completely different styles between Minnesota
United and San Diego Football Club.
Speaker 6 (02:50):
Right.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
One side is obsessed with possession, the other one couldn't
care less intricate passing on one side, we don't give
a rip on the other. So it was the style
that made the fight. And give credit. Minnesota United came
into Snapdragon Stadium and walked out with all three points
in a huge match in the Western Conference.
Speaker 6 (03:08):
Of course, in true as EFC styled a dominated possession
sixty one percent compared to Minnesota's thirty nine percent. And
then San Diego completed five hundred and fifty eight passes
against two hundred and eighty three of Minnesota's completed passes.
And yet seventy minutes San Diego dominated. And the story
(03:30):
as we see the final score three to one to Minnesota. Incredible.
Speaker 7 (03:34):
What happened in that game.
Speaker 8 (03:35):
I could not believe in stick a listen.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
Losado truest to play it by tahit That what a
size who would have been one of the candidates for
going to the season.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I mean the football right now, axtacular.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
Sign foe my coy kind.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Of get a plucked the job say the game, I
ain't say club player takes one out of the year.
Speaker 8 (04:03):
Golf fucking fun.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
That pad a great run at the goalkeeper horn on
his left foot, goes to.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Goal with good hunts.
Speaker 8 (04:09):
Brian to Amazona, hevny times they connect.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
We'll say I'm just over.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Them.
Speaker 7 (04:15):
Not what goes on on.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
It's on set pieces.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
That was always going to be their avenue to get
into the game.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
They look a little bit shell some fright out San Diego.
They're on the back foot here again. But Hobby cuts inside.
Speaker 7 (04:26):
On the lift foot out long right shot the goalkeepers out.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
That does say that it's right now.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
How the puddle for top foot in the west, it's
just getting started that I'm tugget now.
Speaker 8 (04:40):
He's far to pick.
Speaker 5 (04:41):
That's what goes well to rise high amongst the venders.
We have to give a ton of credit to Dane
Saint Clair. He's the goalkeeper from Minnesota United who's Canada's
number one. He was amazing And you can't convince me,
you know, as mentally tough as we think s DFC
is that that isn't psychological when you you go out
of the break and you've outshot them twelve nothing or
(05:02):
twelve one, whatever the statistics were at the half. And
then you know, to Katia's point, you look up and
in the seventy fourth minute, how are we trailing this match?
I mean, we've had all the possession, we've made all
the passes, we've taken all the shots, and yet we're
trailing now against this team which just squeezes the life
out of us.
Speaker 6 (05:19):
We were praising as EFC's defensive style last episode, contrary
to what their style usually is, and then when we
compared it to other teams. Minnesota United know exactly who
they are, and that's something completely opposite because they are
comfortable letting you have the ball, taking all those chances,
and then they know they can rely on their system.
(05:40):
I guess they got lucky on that corner cake that
weird bounds at the far post when that first goal
for them goes in, and that changed everything. And their
second goal is also And what to say about the
one from the middle of the field. That was just insane.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, that was a revenge shot for Andre's doing that
to them back in Minnesota.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Guys. It was, you know, kind of like going back
to the.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
American football stuff that we were talking about here at
the beginning. Good old coach Dennis Green said, they were
who we thought they were. Yes, exactly who we thought
they were. They were going to defend, but they were
able to sneak a couple of those in. So it
ended three to one, Visitors, And uh, what a goal there,
Like like you said that one at the halfway line,
(06:22):
but I'd like that Jet Bank put a little makeup
on this and made it three to one. But at
the end of last week's episode, we asked for predictions
and Darren said.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
I'll go to Minnesota United three to one. Just a
lake goal from one of the SDFC players returning from
international break. You know that they come off the bench
and they put one in there at the end. Wait
a minute, here is that aid? I didn't say that,
did I?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
That is?
Speaker 5 (06:50):
That has got to be AI. I would never make
such a prediction on behind the floor, would I?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Darren Domini?
Speaker 5 (06:55):
I can't imagine that.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Darren Domis.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
Yes, I might have gotten that one backwards. I might
have been saying I'm gonna go SDFC. Well whatever, I
will take it, I will take it. And especially since
you guys are in Vegas, you let me know what
you want to invest in.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Yeah, I was about to make it out.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I guess yeah, right, roam with some lucky numbers that
amount of you know what, technically, just so we could
put this on record technically, and this is something we observe.
This is crazy with all the changes in the history
of sports. Guys, we work for an NFL team in
this case, there's absolutely zero room for gambling when we're
in Vegas. So I'm about to take those numbers out there.
(07:31):
Maybe when I get back to Southern California and go
to one of those casinos out there. But playing with
house money, I think is the right term. When it
comes to Minnesota United, they were just ready, ready, just waiting, waiting,
then chilling, chilling. They hit the jackpot at the end
and they walk out of the building and took as
dfc's money. But that's all right now, guys, we're recording
this show twenty four hours away, maybe a little bit
(07:52):
more from the Baja Cup and at the point of
you know, in other words, by the time they air
this show, we're already going to know the So but
one thing's for sure, none of this happens without the man.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
At the touch line.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So today we're shining the spotlight on San Diego's first
ever head coach, Mikey bout Us. In the last few weeks,
I've asked you for your favorite goals and defensive moments,
but Mikey's such a charismatic figure. I think we've all
got our favorite Mikey moment. So Katia, I'm going to
start with you. What's yours.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
It's a very personal one. Is the day that I
met Mikey. So they organized this media match before the
season even started and This was back in December. So
then we're out there by a snapdragon playing some football
all the media members, and little did we know, Mikey
about us was there watching all of us, and I'm
(08:47):
just like playing my heart out. I hadn't played in
so long, out of shape, but I didn't care. I
was just having a good time. And then he's like, oh,
I've been watching you guys, nice.
Speaker 7 (08:56):
To meet you.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
I'm as EFC's head coach. And I'm like, oh my god,
how embarrassing. But oh well, we were just having a
good time. But that's my favorite Mikey moment.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
And Darren, what about you? What was or has been
a standout requ of Mikey Boudis. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
I mean I could rattle off a whole bunch here,
but I would say the first time that I met
mike it was right after he was introduced, and it
was well before there were any players, and there was
a supporter event in downtown San Diego at a place
called Courtyard and it was just for the supporter, so
it was a private event. I was hosting it, and
(09:32):
I was queueing a Q and a session with Mikey
and Tyler Heaps, and so you know, fans had a
chance to interact and we're learning a little bit about
these guys. And after the event was done, our supporters
were there and they start going into some of their
songs and they bring their drums. Mikey comes off the stage,
goes right into the supporter's mix, grabs the drumsticks, and
he's asking these guys, how do I play this song?
(09:53):
What are the lyrics to this song? Teach me this
right now? Like he was so invested in learning the
supporter culture before before we even had supporter culture. And
I was like, Oh, this guy, like he gets it.
He just understands it. And I always remember that I
have a picture on my phone of him playing those
drums at this event just because he wanted to learn
what it was that was making our supporters group tech.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
For me, guys, there have been several moments, but there's
one before the season that truly stands out for me.
I guess it was pretty much the introduction for Frontea
SD as they finally put together, and that's something you
guys could catch also here on behind the flow on
the first ten shows, where Sep Morua had to kind
of show up all the supporter groups put them all
(10:36):
in the one so that they can coexist and just
be part of the beginning and such an important thread
to what they've been weaving here at San DIEGOEFC. Anyway,
So they're under the mirf Dragon at snap Dragon Stadium
and the underbelly where at the bottom they're at the
elevators pretty much area, going into the locker room area.
(10:56):
Mikey comes out with Jet Bank and some of the
players and then the Frontea as these supporters were also there.
So it was kind of like a like in a movie,
you know, like when there's a truce between two gangs.
It was really really cool to watch, but it was
very heartfelt because of what Mikey said to the supporter group.
And I had never seen a coach direct himself that
way to a fan base, especially at the beginning. I
(11:18):
know in football, the culture is way different than in
the NFL. In baseball, you're not going to see a
manager of baseball go talk to the fans and see
what they feel. No way they're gonna do that. But
Mikey is different. One of those moments where it almost
brings a tear to your eye to see this team
connect with you and say, guys, you're just as much
a part of this as Evening Losano. And I think
that that meant so much to the supporter group. And
(11:40):
look look what they've been able to accomplish because of
that nurturing. And it all started with mikey Abadas, you know,
just depositing that faith in the fan base.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Guys.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
I don't want to sound overly dramatic about it, but
he uses a term that I now use in my
everyday life about growth mindset, approaching the sport, approaching training,
just approaching life with a growth mindset. And I hear
myself saying that, not just in the microphones. I hear
myself saying that when I'm having dinner.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
One of my favorite quotes I was during an interview
that we had with him on this podcast, and then
he said, for you to enjoy and be passionate about
what you do, what you love, and enjoy those moments,
you have to write the difficult moments too, and know
that they're going to be those lows that are part
of it that nobody talks about. And then you're like, yes.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, but there's something crazy here, God damn that we
need to just discuss and.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Throw it out there.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You see, we might be taking cues from Mikey as
far as you know, the philosophies of life and being
relentless and just having that growth mindset there. And but
Mikey is also becoming a fashion icon thanks to Darren
smith He's basically copying your wardrobe. I know you've given
him a couple of ideas there on T shirts. Next thing,
(12:52):
you know, Mikey's supporting them. Darren Smith Man, you got
to get yourself your own line in Milan.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I don't know about that. I mean, I've just noticed,
and I mean I did ask him, I out of curiosity.
It was sort of like a like a throwaway question
at the end of an interview for our pregame show Adriana,
and I said, who's picking out your clothes? Like are
you putting some thoughts into this? And he said, yeah,
he goes, I don't pick them out, he said, his
wife and Sonny the equipment manager, they give him some options.
(13:19):
But you know, this is what is important is when
you talk about his clothing, he said, I want to
represent myself in a way that is a reflection of
San Diego. I want to be casual. I want to
represent the club and I want to reflect the community.
So you know, he does what he thinks. You know
how it is that that San Diego see themselves right
like how we all see ourselves. And again, it just
speaks to the mindfulness that he approaches almost every aspect
(13:39):
of life with which I do really appreciate from him.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's simple enough, guys that we can just say he
feels the flow.
Speaker 7 (13:46):
We go with the flow.
Speaker 6 (13:47):
Adrian, your next assignment is to come up with this
poster with fashion trends by Darren and Mikey.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
All right, you see, and this goes back to last
week when we were talking about the backline boy is
coming up. We're gonna hear the words from the wizard himself.
We're going behind the curtain. See what he's gonna tell
us after the break, We're gonna dig.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
In to who is Mikey.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
About us and the journey that he's taken and what
drives him every single day at San Diego f c's
first head coach. And we're back on behind the flow.
(14:34):
Mikey is a man who many feel like they know,
but when he first joined s DFC, he was relatively
unknown to many. At is unveiling, he was asked about
his life up until taking the hot seat a year
ago in September twenty twenty four, stake a listen.
Speaker 8 (14:52):
Well.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, born
and raised. My father's from Chile, South America. My mother's Americans,
dual national, multicultural, dual lingual family. I got the love
for the game from my father one hundred percent and
started playing from the youngest of ages. I think I
got the bug most specifically when I saw my first
(15:15):
South American qualifier live. I was fortunate to watch Chile
play pataway and watching the fans and how much passion
there was in the stadium.
Speaker 8 (15:24):
I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Played at every youth level and then had the opportunity
to train with Santiegra Wonders, but never made it as
a professional. Started coaching really young about a year and
a half after college, and worked at every level. I've
coached five year olds, boys and girls all the way
up to professional players with the national team that played
(15:46):
Champions League games. I've been fortunate enough to coach some
amazing people and really high level players. Funny enough, I
coached Naomi, Grandma and Terna Davidson who just want to
go medal at the U nineteen level at ECNL. After that,
I went to Sacramento Republic, which was an amazing opportunity
(16:07):
for me to join the professional game. I coached the
U fifteen boys and was the director of twelve to fifteens.
That was an amazing experience with a really passionate fan
base and club. Went on to FC Dallas after that
with the academy, coaching the U fifteens, sixteens and seventeens
before being moved up to the first team with Luci Gonzalez.
(16:28):
Had three amazing seasons with them before moving on to
the U twenty national team. That was an amazing journey,
just going through a qualifier and going to a U
twenty World Cup with a really special group of people.
After the World Cup, I was promoted up to the
men's national team as an assistant. Spent the last year
working with those players and feel very blessed to have
(16:52):
shared my time with them and feel the tremendous amount
of growth that I had as a coach, just working
with players that played Sampions League weekend and week out,
play at the highest level and are really the pinnacle
of American players. As soon as I found out San
Diego got a team, I immediately started looking into it
because my wife's originally from San Diego. We met and
(17:15):
fell in love in San Diego, and it's a it's
a city that was always home that I never actually
lived in. So many friends that I made here, and
so much of the culture that just felt always right
to me.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
I've heard a lot about Mikey.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
We've seen a lot of Mikey, but never really knew
the full story there Darren and Kantient. But it's good
to hear his links with the finest city.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
I thought that was a huge leg up to learn
that that he actually had been connected to the city
through marriage, and not only that, because you know that's
one part of it. So you figure, Okay, he's familiar,
he knows his way around. The guy's not going to
get lost on the freeways. But he also had a
really in depth knowledge the two freeways. Yeah, well, he
did know a lot about the soccer culture. First conversation
(18:02):
I had with him, he was talking about soccer's, he
was talking about Wave, he was talking about San Diego, Loyal,
he was talking about nineteen oh four, Like there were
just a lot of things that came from Mikey that
I was like, this guy is going to be a
really good fit here.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
What I also really liked and the fact that he
is also this person that is bicultural, bilingual, that understands
what it's like to have two countries, two cultures, his
Chailian roots and his American roots, and because of that,
he can connect so well with what the city of
San Diego stands for. And I think even in other sports,
(18:40):
for example in LA and the reason why someone like
Kobe Bryant had such an impact on all the fans
in the city was also because of that. You know,
he made the effort to speak the language, and that
makes the bond even stronger.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I'm glad you brought up Kobe being Bryant, because God
was that guy that challenged Kobe to do a full
interview in Spanish opening night when we were first starting
off with Time Warner Cable. It was the first ever
all Spanish fully in Hispanol Laker channel, and Kobe was
our first guest for that opening night, and I was
to sit down with Kobe to do the interview, and
then I asked him, I go, oh yeah, because that's
(19:15):
what I would call me. I'm not sure you get
you want to do this in Spanish at least okay,
because I know you've thrown out phrases. I know you've
said a couple of things here in Spanish. Year you
tried to communicate, let's do this, bro, I'm dropping the challenge.
He's like, noa na nah, I'm not doing that tonight.
But give me one year. Just give me one season.
Come next year on opening night, let's remix this. We'll
redo this, and I will do the entire interview in Spanish,
(19:39):
no English, all this final Fast forward a year later,
we're sitting.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
There, it's media day.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Gellna mancho ready he goes bambos and we knocked it
out and it was just so impressive. But again, it's
because of that nurturing of the fan base. It's understanding
who's out there in the stands, who's buying the tickets,
who's watching the games, listening to the games, and.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
How you're just that lightning rock. You need to be
that player.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And in this case, the manager in Mikey Banas, and
this is a guy.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
Who's really truly had to craft himself.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
See now, Mikey also spoke to us about life as
a soccer manager, where he gets his inspiration and the
names he reels off, since we're dropping names are pretty special.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
The older I get, the more I recognize that I'm
a mixture of every person that I've ever interacted with.
Like that's what I know for a fact. When I
first started coaching in the local club, I coached that
there were four coaches in that club that were much
better than me. And ultimately what I did was I
hung around, I listened, I studied, I took their ideas,
(20:46):
I adapted those ideas and then I personalized it. But
ultimately I'm them and they are me. I'd have to
mention Pep Guardiola was clearly an inspiration for everybody in
my generation. Then you have to say, well, if Pep
Guardiola was an insp than Johann Kroife is definitely in inspiration,
and then Randess michaels will have to be inspiration as well.
And then of course I'm Chilean Americans. So Marcelo Bielsa,
(21:09):
the work he did with the national team was massively
important for our country. I mean, he turned us into
a world world class international team in two years and
I know Jrges and PAULI was benefited the most from
the Copa America wins, but let's be honest here, Bielsa
laid the foundation for all of that. I would say like,
(21:29):
these are the coaches I learned the most from in
terms of tactics, methodology, being organized. But then all of
a sudden, the more experience I get and the more
I study, then I start gravitating towards different type of
coaches because I start thinking all these guys are like geniuses,
the tactical geniuses. I don't view myself as that. That's
not my profile. I'm happy to learn from them and
(21:51):
take ideas from them, because I think I'm very good.
Speaker 8 (21:53):
I have a good learning ability.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But then I started looking at these Ancilotes club Manuel Pelligrini,
where everybody that's played for them says like they love
playing for this person, and you start to see, Okay,
there's this other side of it, which is this human side, right,
this leadership side. And then I start to study these
guys and I personally think that my profiles some sort
(22:16):
of mixture, because the other thing with some of those
profiles is they're also bigger than life characters and I'm
a pretty calm person, you know what I mean. I
like being in the background, and ultimately what I think
is I'm a bit of a mix. You know. I
believe that the best teams play because the individual person
and player is taken care of. This is where it
(22:37):
starts for me. And then but I have to have
enough clarity about tactics and game model to put them
in conditions where they can be successful beyond coaches. The
best way I could describe what has inspired me in
terms of leadership is this, like taois leadership model that
I heard and it stuck with me forever. And basically
it's as simple as just saying.
Speaker 8 (22:56):
To lead like water.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
So water is like my biggest inspiration at the moment.
And the reason is is because water is clear, so
you have to be clear when you lead. It's also transparent,
so it's honest. Water is powerful when it needs to be,
yet flexible and mouldable so it's liquid, right. It can
take many many forms. Water is mostly unseen. Most of
(23:18):
the water that exists is underground. We don't see it,
so it's not a superstar profile. Water is very subtle.
And then ultimately, what water does is it nourishes people,
which is the most important thing. We can't live without water,
and so I would say, like, as of right now
where I'm at in my career, I have these models
of coaches who I've really leaned on, and then I'm
kind of a balance between wanting to make sure the
(23:40):
team plays really good football and have a high knowledge
of that, but make sure that we take care of
the human side, nourishing players so that they want to
give more to the club and to each other.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
All right, So that was in November. Mikey Bodis. I
love that he's got that like sort of a Taoist
sort of idea philosophy, like to take it's Bruce Lye.
I know he stole the frontil, but it's be like water,
my friend.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
That's a nice blend he's got going on.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
Definitely, he draws that inspiration from Guerriola and crow If
and the structure, the style of play, but then also
that human side when we see why he's able to
manage the youngsters in such a way, and you hear
names like Carlo Ancelotti and Jurgen Club and these managers
(24:26):
that have had such a successful career in Europe because
not only what they do on the field, but because
they know how to manage those locker rooms and in
Ancilotti's case, not only with youngsters and developing these young
players and young talent, but also knowing how to handle
the egos, because when you're managing those big clubs, that
real Madrids of the world, you have to deal with
(24:49):
the egos. And here in MLS it's a very different experience,
especially when we're talking about a first year team. But
you do have your DPS, you do have players that
have experience that have played in Europe, that I played
in those big clubs, and that's very important knowing how
to speak to those players, but also to the young
academy guys. And when I was looking up Mike's bio,
(25:10):
what really stood out to me. He has a master's
degree in kinesiology with an emphasis in physical education, and
he has a master degree listen to this an organizational leadership,
so you understand also where he's coming from.
Speaker 5 (25:26):
He also is a former yoga instructor, like he is
a yogi. I do consider myself a yogi and I
appreciate what it's done for me in terms of breathing,
what it's done for me in terms of not just
you know, physically, but also mentally. And I love that
about Mikey that he takes that with him into the squad.
You know, there was a time where media is not
(25:46):
allowed to watch all the training, but we're allowed to
go in there for the last fifteen minutes. And they
take us all down there at the end of training
and I was like, Oh, they're all gone. Where is everybody?
Nobody's here, We've missed it. Well, they were there, but
they were all lying down on the ground in savasana.
Corpse pos write what you do at the end of
a yoga class at any session, And he had all
(26:07):
twenty five players lying on the grass on the training
ground because he said, life is a professional athlete's hard.
These guys are going to go into the weight room,
they're going to listen to music, they're going to get
on their phones, they're going to call their people. I
just wanted them to have a little bit of mindfulness
for five minutes.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
What's that quote, a man who has control over his
mind is able to realize its full potential.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
That's him.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Yes, yes, and I love it. And remember he's still
a rookie. Head coach.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
In MLS terms, the bravery could have gone absolutely south wrong.
But MLS has eaten up expansion sides before. But it's
not happening to Mikey Wadas because he's flipped the script
on absolutely everyone. And back at the end of July,
we were invited to sit in the locker room ahead
of a coaching session, and here's a little extract of
Mikey giving a team talk and praising players, and it
(27:01):
sounds good.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Take a listen.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
We don't need to be that safe.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
We don't need to receive that ball there, but it's okay.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
We go here.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
I think we do a great job.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Look at that look out for you guys are actually
playing here in that quick distance.
Speaker 7 (27:11):
Foom out right.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
Positive full backs.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
I need to challenge the full backs because you saw
it a little bit.
Speaker 8 (27:19):
Yes, they need to make the runs, but also sometimes
they aren't.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Your guys' first priority should need to take this touch,
open your body and live on the farthest line. If
we have these runners here or these runners here, you
need to utilize it because play it for this second plausive.
You can see with the opposite.
Speaker 5 (27:39):
Movements that we made that we would make trouble.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
Can we be more than the form these woes?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I love how clippable mikey wadis is locker room moments
that we've heard plenty throughout this season, Darren Smith. But
your thoughts on that locker room moment in particular.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
You're right about it being very clippable, right, like this
is very instagrammable in this in this day and age.
But you know it's just it's very simple, it's powerful,
it's not overly complicated. He speaks with so much clarity,
so obviously it's part of the incredible success.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
That we've had here. And Katya, what about you?
Speaker 6 (28:13):
Funny you say this, Adrian, because back in early August
I asked Mike directly about this how he manages to
see the potential in players.
Speaker 7 (28:22):
Here's what he told me.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
The first two most important ingredients for success are talent
and character slash motivation. So as a coach, I want
talented guys who are hungry and have good character. And
if we have that, then I'll never complain because those
type of players they always get better when given the
right opportunity in the right environment, they shine more often
(28:46):
than not. So ultimately it's about getting to know the
player on a personal level, making sure that they know
that we value them as an individual, we want them
to achieve their goals. That it's about being as clear
as possible with them in terms of what we're looking for,
because this game of football can be played in so
many different ways, but it's important they understand our style
of play. And then it's really important that we give
(29:08):
him an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Talent, character, clarity, opportunity. That's the recipe. And when you
look at Doa for example, or Luca Bombino, you can
see exactly how it's working in practice.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Yeah, and a lot of this has to do with
who Mikey is and where he's been in his career right,
having managed the under twenties for the US youth national team,
or being in charge of some academies and Sacramento in Dallas.
You know, the one thing I think we talk about
how consistent the messaging has been, it's the patience. He
will live with mistakes, but what he will not live
(29:44):
with is somebody who's afraid to make them or somebody
who's not learning from them. Right, that's the thing that
really stands out because that's not only football, but that's life.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Growth, mentality, seek perfection. You'll arrive at excellence every single time.
And that's why his leadership keeps coming up, not just
his tactics. The outside the world, guys is noticing as well.
By the way, I noticed they see the batphone ringing
that redline. It's a you're being summoned. It's time for
you to go. You got work to do on Monday
(30:14):
night football.
Speaker 8 (30:15):
I have work to do.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
I'm sorry, guys, so I have to jump out of here.
But we are going to talk more about as DFC
of course as usual next week, and about that fan
connection between the Mexican side of the border and then
San Diego FC and how it's developed that connection also
on the other side.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
One of your specialties, one of many got ays, yes,
win big for us. All right, so got this, got
her assignment for Monday night football. But we're going to
keep telling this story, the inside story. In fact, we've
been telling it. Now the outside is telling it.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
After the Break the Guardians, John Muller on why San
Diego's build up is breaking records and what that says
about my keys ceiling.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Let's go cooling.
Speaker 7 (30:59):
Break Welcome back.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
In late July, Guardian journalist John Muller wrote a piece
all about San DIEGOFC, looking in particular at Mikey Badis,
his influences and the data behind the team's style. We
caught up with him last week to get his take
on San Diego's success so far.
Speaker 8 (31:31):
My name is John Muller. I'm a soccer journalist.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
I worked for years at The Athletic UK writing about
a lot of analytics and tactics, sort of the nerdier
side of the game, and I'm now the founder of
a company called Footie that's building a live score app
that brings club quality analytics to fans. I follow them
mols closely and I have known about San Diego since
they existed, which hasn't been very long. But I was
really impressed very early in the season with how distinctive
(31:56):
their style of play was, which I think is very
unusual for an expansion team to come into the league
with a very clear concept of how they want to play.
Speaker 8 (32:03):
And I found them really attractive to watch.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
There were outliers and all sorts of interesting corrections, and
so I started paying close attention to San.
Speaker 8 (32:09):
Diego and recently wrote about it for The Guardian.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Now this is really interesting, John, What is ASDFC doing
so differently than from the rest of MLS.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Sure, so, I wrote about a few different things in
the article, but I think the easiest starting point is just.
Speaker 8 (32:23):
That San Diego plays a lot in the build up.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
Now.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
I think most soccer fans probably know what the build
up is, but if you listen to coaches talk about
the game, they'll frequently break it into phases. That's something
that we do with Foodie. We break data on the
game into phases of play. And so when we looked
at phase of play data for the build up specifically,
which is roughly organized possession in a team' zone half
before they get up around the center circle, san Diego
(32:48):
plays more passes in the build up than any team
in MLS history. And you know this is in part
it's because of a continuing trend. MLS plays an average
of two hundred and fifty touches in the build up
now compared to one hundred and fifty ten years ago.
So like the whole league has been moving in this
direction where teams build up more, they high press more
against the opponent's build up. But even in light of
(33:10):
that trend, San Diego are still outliers. They averaged three
hundred and sixty seven build up touches per game, which
is just freakishly high.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
I'm very surprised that they're doing this.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Typically, if you play that many touches in the build up,
you are taking a lot of risks at the back.
Anything that goes wrong is going wrong very near your
own goal, and a lot of coaches don't like that.
They would rather just boot the ball along and then
try their chances and the opponents have. San Diego has,
i think, the opposite philosophy, where they want to draw
the opponent as close to their goal as possible. So
the point of all these passes in the build up
isn't just a play passes near their own goal, take
(33:40):
risks for the hell of it. What they want to
do is draw the opponent out and then attack quickly.
So the other interesting thing that I saw in San
Diego's data, besides all these build up touches, is that
they're also leading the league in touches in the fast
break phase. So when they're coming out of organized possession
into a very rapid attack, so not a counter attack, right,
It's not they just won the ball and they're attacking fast,
but it can look a lot like a counter attack.
(34:00):
Sometimes when they play these build ups, they draw out
the high press and then they attack through it very quickly.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
It's well documented that as DFC is a right to
dream model, but how much of the success actually comes
down to Mikey's influence? Is he shaping the team in
his own way or just carrying out a system that
was already in place.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I am generally skeptical of the impact of managers on
soccer teams. Data bears out that very frequently we tend
to overrate how important the manager is. But I do
think that particularly with guys who had never played together
before January of this year, bringing them in and getting
them all on the same page, teaching them little patterns,
teaching them how one or another plays, I think that
(34:38):
takes a lot of coordination, a lot of teaching, and
I think that it's evident on the pitch that Mike's
doing a very good job of that. And we hear,
you know, from coaches like BJ Callahan at Nashville, who
worked with Mikey for US Soccer before they both became
MLS head coaches. You know, he talks about what a
great teacher Mikey is and what a great job that
he's doing with his players. San Diego's distinctive and very
well defined style of play anybody at the club. I
(35:01):
think that the folks that write to Dream had been
thinking about how they wanted all of their teams to
play for a long time before San Diego FC existed,
and that gave the club a head start.
Speaker 8 (35:10):
Tyler Heaps talks about how.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Much easier it made his job when he was trying
to build this squad to come into a club that
had a style of play already well defined, that had
specific profiles well defined, so he knew what types of
players he needed to go out and get and when
he was hiring a head coach. Part of the reason
why he hired Mikey, who had never been a club
head coach before. You know, he had coached the under
twenties with US Soccer, but that was his only head
coaching experience that was seen as.
Speaker 8 (35:32):
A risky higher around MLS circles.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
A lot of people didn't necessarily think that he had
the experience to succeed. But Tyler talks about, Look, when
I talked to Mikey, we were fully aligned on style
of play. The way that he thinks about football is
the way that I think about football is the way
the Right to Dream thinks about football.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
And I think that that just makes.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Everybody's job a lot easier when you're trying to build
a club and get everyone on the same page. MLS
roster rules are weird, and they incentivized teams to build.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
In weird ways.
Speaker 8 (35:56):
And one of the weird ways.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
That teams tend to build is they put all of
their money in front line, and then that leaves them
with a very low budget for the back line. And
San Diego the way that they've constructed their team follows
this pattern, maybe even to an extreme. The center backs
are experienced, but the two fullbacks a lot of the
times are teenagers, and the goalkeeper CJ. De Santos had
very little top flight experience before this season. And so
(36:19):
you're taking these players who you know are not veterans
by any means and giving them a whole lot of touches, right,
all those build up touches those involved those back five
players a lot, And so you're trusting the judgment of
a guy like CJ. Dosantos, who I wrote about in
the article Dos Santos does not boot the ball long
at all. To an extent that San Diego's launch rate
for their goalkeeper, which is the percentage of passes that
(36:39):
the goalkeeper hits more than forty yards, is not only
the lowest in MLS, ever, it's the lowest for the
European Big five leagues as well. San Diego is less
likely to launch the ball long from the goalkeeper than
PSG or Man City or Barcelona. That is just a
remarkable amount of trust to put in a young player
and experienced player like Dosantos, and for those teenage fullbacks
as well, right, the amount of pressure that they are
(37:00):
placed under out there against the sidelines, and then they
have to play through that pressure.
Speaker 8 (37:04):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
That was one of the things that Tyler Heaps looked
for when he was trying to build the team was, Hey,
I don't have a lot of money to spend on
these spots, but I'm going to find players who have
shown that they can solve situations under pressure, and then
I'm going to trust Mikey to coach them up in
our style of play.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
Mikey called himself a football.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Junkie, right, and he was able to rattle off all
of these coaches who have influenced him. One of the
first names that you would expect to hear namechecked when
you're talking about a team that likes to build up
is Pep Guardiola, and I think that we can see
specific elements of San Diego's play that have been influenced
by Guardiola, as most modern soccer teams have. Other coaches
that Mikey talked about, he mentioned sorry at Napoli, and
I think that we saw a lot of similarities. So
(37:41):
that team was remarkable for the way that Georgina would
play a thousand short passes at the base of midfield
and then they would attack pretty quickly. Deserve bees Brighton
another one who I think we see a lot of
very specific similarities with the way that San Diego overloads
the space right in front of their center backs right
They bring a lot of bodies into that central space
in the build up, and then they play very short, fast,
(38:02):
third man combinations in order to get past those first
lines of pressure. So I think that Mikey would probably
tell you he's drawing on some things from all of
these coaches.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
So last one, John, how far can Mikey about us
actually go? Could we see him real soon getting that
knock on the door from some European club, mikey Ola.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
If I were a club in Europe looking at MLS
coaches right now, there are two that I would have
my eye on, and Mikey is absolutely one of them.
Wilford Nancia Columbus Crew is another excellent coach, excellent team,
and there are a lot of stylistic similarities between San
Diego and Columbus, and it's evident that both of those
coaches are really good teachers, are really good at getting
their players on the same page. One of the interesting
(38:42):
differences between San Diego and Columbus. Both teams have super
high possession. They're almost tied for the league lead and
possession of MLS. Both teams play a lot in the
build up. Both teams play a fairly central build up.
That's another distinctive feature of San Diego style of play
is that they tend to crowd the middle a lot. Right,
They're not passing out the wings and then up the wings.
They're trying to play through the middle. But where they
(39:03):
differ Nanci and Mikey varis and again this goes back
to the right to dream style of play. San Diego
wants to draw that pressure in and then break quickly,
whereas Columbus, Yes, they play a lot in the build up,
but they tend to circulate side to side and push
the opponent back more slowly than San Diego does, and
so they play the most passes in the league in
the phase after the build up, what we call progression
(39:24):
of foody. So they're kind of setting up shop higher
up the pitch, passing around more like what you would
expect from Men's City and less like what you would
expect from Deserbe's brighton a coach like mikey Varus, I mean,
he's being very successful for sure. San Diego is on
pace to be the best expansion team in MLS history,
and that alone will get you looks as a coach,
that'll get you recruited. But I think that the fact
that his style of play maps on well to how
(39:45):
the best teams in the world play is going to
possibly get him looks from outside of MOLS as well.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
That's fascinating stuff from John, and he's shown us just
how bold and unusual San Diego's approach really is. And Darren,
looking at San Diego specifically, how much of this season's
success comes down to Mikey's impact.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
A ton and maybe not just because he has the
ability to process all the information that we just heard,
but you know, it's it's also his ability to process
all that information and explain it to the players in
a way that they can understand. We've a ton a
ton of time today talking on this podcast about all
the different elements that make mike Evadis who he is.
(40:25):
But you could have gotten it wrong when you were
thinking about who the first head coach was going to
be in this club's history. Obviously, you know, we all
would agree that this is the perfect person on all
of those levels to get the job done for what
it is that they're asking of him.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, they could have gone and say, you know, the
proverbial low hanging fruit, the star power that was available,
Ugo Sanchez, bra We've heard those names through the wind.
But when we heard Mikey Vadas, we're like, all right,
wait a minute, now, this is an interesting pick here,
Mikey Vadis And from the outside perspective, you know, do
you think he's already edging in to the bigger conversation,
(41:01):
leaving his own imprint on the game.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
Well, It's not every day that you see a first
year Major league soccer head coach written about in these
terms in an international publication like The Guardian. So you
know that's going to catch everybody's eye, whether it's Premier
League or La Liga or wherever they're putting this name
on the radar screen. So I selfishly think, hey, this
(41:28):
is just like our first couple of steps of this
long process, and I would love for Mikey to stick
around for as long as possible, obviously from a selfish standpoint,
but the fact that he is getting this kind of attention,
you know, through the first what two thirds of his
first MLS season, to me just shows you, like, the
ceiling is so high for this guy. It's almost impossibly
(41:50):
been to recognized where it is.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, we've been absolutely impressed with everything that he is.
Mikey about us and Pach watch yourself, Potchetino. He might
just come back into the fold of the US men's
national team, surprise, surprise, But San Diego observers to have
Mikey about us leading the club and it's very first
season with all the challenges still to come. Darren, I
think both you and I agree it's unanimous and Katia,
I know she's gone out, but I.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Know she feels the same way.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Check check check, yes, yes, yes, we're all very happy.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
It's Mikey about us.
Speaker 5 (42:18):
We are, indeed, And you know, sometimes there's that phrase.
I'll take the phrase and turn it around a little bit.
You know, sometimes you find the club, sometimes the club
finds you. And in this case, when Mikey talks about
all the things that are happening, we sayago football club
and write to dream.
Speaker 7 (42:34):
He says.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
The second I heard about this, I knew I wanted
to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
And you know we always say that this is behind
the flow, and the word flow, well, guess what else flows?
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Water?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
And Mikey leads like water clear, flexible, nourishing, refreshing, And
it's why this team is just moving, flowing the guilo
with the winds and the nature and all of the
elements and why the future feels so full of possibility.
Next up, it's a trip to Atlanta United, and remember
(43:05):
that one kicks off much earlier than usual. Atlanta have
built a roster stacked Darren with attacking talent a minuita.
They've got real match winners who could decide a game
in an instant, but Atlanta all foot tended to concede
a lot, especially in the second half. They've given them up,
and that's one of San Diego e fse's specialties. Could
(43:26):
that be an opportunity now for Andres Dreyer to strike Darren?
Speaker 4 (43:30):
Do you think as.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
DFC alters their approach even a little bit or do
they stay relentless, keep flowing like water and go right
at it with Atlanta United.
Speaker 5 (43:39):
I think that they are consistent, They are relentless, and
they are what is that Willie Nelson song on the
road again?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
So this is seven I lack to score my goals
on the road again.
Speaker 5 (43:49):
All right, we're going to pick up three points on
the road again, So seven straight. I like riding trends.
You know, you're in Vegas there, so you know sometimes
when you're on a hot streak, you got a on
the hot streak, and SDFC is on a heater when
it comes to playing matches away from Snapdragon Stadium. So
let's say that seven becomes eight. So I think they
picked back up where they left off when we saw
(44:10):
them at Bemo Stadium, and bringing three points home is
what I'm expecting coming up on Saturday AGM.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
And as Willie Nelson said, I'm on the road again
with all of my friends. Yes, we'll see how far
this journey really goes, starting with Atlanta and with only
three more matches left after that, this is the business
end of the season. And next week, fresh from Hispanic
Heritage Week and Mexican Independence Day and the friendly I'm
(44:38):
gonna say not so friendly, it's gonna be the Bacha Cup.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
It's gonna have some fire against Iaquan. At the Murph Dragon.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
We're gonna explore sdfc's unique relationship, in particular San Diego's
relationship with Mikio. But for now, big thanks to John
Muller for joining us, and of course Go and Darren
together we are the campaign managers for Andres Dreyer's MVP claim.
By the way, so just Darren, do you want to
start sing in the background while I say bye?
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (45:02):
Absolutely, I'm still bullish on him. MVP MVP, and we're
going to see it in Atlanta. Everybody's going to pay
attention to it.
Speaker 8 (45:10):
Now.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
I'm tired of hearing about Lionel Messi. I'm still we're overlooking,
we're looking over our shoulders. At Minnesota United. There's no
doubt about it. We're going to be scoreboard watching here
for the final couple of weeks of this MLS season.
But we have the MLS favorite for MVP and his
name is on Deirstryer.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Mb Paltereo Dara, but don dataa, don deliver some ice
cream in Atlanta, United, Baby, let's go. So we're going
to close it out with Mikey's words since we were
focused on Mikey about us today. Lead like water, that's
Mikey's philosophy. We're going to go with the flow behind
the flow. You've been flowed today ultra extra right.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
All right, Well, thank.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
You for listening, guys, and don't forget to drop us
a follow wherever you listen to your podcast and to
join us as we write out this incredible inaugural sea
for Darren forgot that and everybody that was with us
in our production team. Am Adrian Garcia Marquis, you've been
dipped in Chromina tool and what
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