September 16, 2020 • 34 mins
In episode 2 of our special six-part series Getting to Equal, actor, producer, director and entrepreneur Justin Baldoni talks to Carolyn Tastad, Group President, North America and Deanna Bass, Vice President, Global Diversity, Equality and Inclusion—both of P&G—about reframing masculinity and the role of men in advancing equality for women.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, This is Malan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli.
We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose, and you're listening to
Seneca's conversations on power and Purpose. Welcome to this special edition.
(00:24):
This new six part series called Getting to Equal will
change the way you think about women and leadership, and
it comes at a time when women's leadership has never
been more crucial. We have two amazing leaders who are
guest hosting these six episodes, Carol and Tastad, Group President
North America and Deiana Bass, vice President Global Diversity, Equality
(00:45):
and Inclusion, both from PNG, one of the largest consumer
goods companies in the world. Together, Caroline and Diana have
created an impressive gender equality strategy for PNG, and it's
a strategy that's really breaking new ground on these issues
in the private sector. And they'll be joined by incredible
guests from all walks of life. In this second episode
of Getting to Equal, Carolyn and Dianna talk with actor, director, producer,
(01:09):
and entrepreneur Justin Baldoni. They discuss why the old definitions
of masculinity don't work for anyone and why men's participation
is critical in achieving gender equality. Caroline Diana, thanks ver
much for joining us again and for guest hosting this series.
Thanks Kim. I want to introduce our guest today, Justin Baldoni,
who we all know and love from his role on
(01:30):
Jane the Virgin. Justin is a producer, director, entrepreneur, and
owns his own studio, Wayfarer Studios, an independent financial and
production engine, pioneering purpose driven, multi platform film and television
productions that elevate and speak to the human spirit. He's
also created a dinner conversation series called Man Enough, which
(01:52):
ties into traditional masculinity while focusing on topics like body image, relationships,
and fatherhood. Justin is and using his influence to dismantle
traditional ideas of masculinity now. Justin first became known as
an advocate for gender equality in two thousand seventeen when
he did a TED Talk titled Why I'm Done Trying
(02:13):
to Be Man Enough. So far that Ted Talk has
received over seventy million views globally. We're so excited to
have him on our show today. Welcome Justin. It's so
funny how the introductions always make you seem way cooler
than you are. Grateful to be here with both of you.
You're doing such great work. So you know you and
(02:33):
I are talking earlier. We first met back in two
thousand and seventeen at that TED Women's conference, and our
friend Alison Tuman campus was in the house with me,
and we were sitting there watching you, and we had
this realization that the things that we were trying to
change in our own culture and in the world were
so related to the things that you were talking about
(02:54):
on stage about reframing masculinity. So tell us about that
Ted talk and why it was so important for you
to do that. You say, Ted talking, like all that
anxiety kind of comes right back. You know, that was
a really bizarre time in my life. But I can't
believe it's gonna be three years because I measured the
(03:15):
Ted talk. Um my son was My son was born,
like I think, maybe five days before or seven days
before the talk, So he's going to be three in
this October. Look, I am not an expert in a
gender studies or feminism or honestly, masculinity. I am an
(03:36):
expert in my own masculinity. But that's it. And when
they approached me about doing a TED talk around masculinity,
My first response was like, Wow, I didn't feel ready
imposter syndrome kicked in, which which yes, man experience too.
And it was also terrified because I knew that it
(03:59):
was coming at a time when we were just starting
to become ah even more polarized as it relates to
conversations around manhood and masculinity and feminism, and the words
were being weaponized. And I realized that I was so
afraid because it was so important. But more than anything,
(04:25):
I'm grateful that there was such a massive response, predominantly
by women. But the men that it did touch, the
men that found it on their own, or the men
that founded through the women in their lives and the
women that they loved also Ted posted like a two
and a half minute clip on Facebook that like had
like fifteen million views in like a couple of weeks,
and I remember looking through that and seeing how many
(04:49):
men were also attacking me and hating on it. There
was nothing revolutionary about what I said. This was me
just saying like, hey, guys, let's be better guys, or hey,
let's not run a way from the parts of us
that make us human, or hey, we can be compassionate
and emotional just like the women in our lives. That
doesn't mean that we're any less of a man. The
bar is way too low. We could crawl over it
(05:11):
and uh, and let's start to raise the bar a
little by little. Yeah, that's so great, justin you know,
early in our work, we realized that men had to
be part of the solution for us. They had to
be equal partners and the work that we were doing
on gender equality if we were going to make any
progress at all. I mean, that's part of what we
(05:32):
sparked to in your Ted talk. So inside PNG, we
often use the word privilege, and we're really trying to
normalize that word because we think it's an important conversation
for us to have. But it's a really scratchy word.
So what do you think about privilege? If you don't
know what it is because you're blind to seeing it,
(05:55):
then the second you hear the word, you're only attributing
it to what you're seeing politically, which means politically, I'm
being attacked. What we also know about privilege is for
the people who have it, asking for equality feels like
oppression because it feels like you're being you're you're having
your rights or your privileges, or just simply the way
(06:18):
you've seen the world taken from you, so suddenly you're
going to have less than what you have now, right,
And that's where I think it's important for the compassion
to come in. And this is where I feel a
lot for these men is these are hard working men
that are fighting to take care of their families, just
(06:39):
like we all are, just like you are. And the
idea that that um there that they have privilege and
many of these men's minds would mean that their lives
are simple or their lives are easy and they have
more than and the reality is that's not the case
for a lot of these men. So I believe this
is a long answer to your question, and I'm not
(07:00):
gonna answer your whole question because we don't have enough time.
But my personal feelings as somebody who's not an expert,
who doesn't have a PhD, who really doesn't even have
a reason to be having this conversation except for the
work that I'm doing on myself, is that if you
want to bridge the gap, we have to be careful
and get away from the rhetoric and the politicized language
(07:23):
that is making a lot of these men um feel attacked,
even if they are being attacked, or even if they're
being overly overly sensitive, Because if you want to get
to the men, we have to which is again the
very thing that women excel at far greater than men,
is compassion, empathy. We have to speak to them in
(07:46):
the language they can understand and let them know that
they're not bad people. And I think this whole notion
of how tough it is to have the conversation is
part of what we're trying to get at. Justin, when
you talk about this, you often talk about using your
in fluence. What do you mean by that what you
both are doing right now? And you are saying, well,
how do we use what we have to now do good?
(08:09):
How do we use what we have? How do we
use our voice? How do we use our privilege to
find a way to actually bring people together and talk
about things? And I'm so grateful that there are, you know,
so many women at the top, especially in your organization,
that are fighting for that. So Justin, in preparation for
this discussion, I invested several hours of my personal time
(08:30):
and watching Man Enough episodes. I even, you know, recruited
my sons to participate with me. They're in their twenties,
so and I found the discussions intriguing and lightning. UM.
And I also found myself very uncomfortable at times. And UM,
(08:52):
I think that I, like, I had to really think
about why am I uncomfortable watching this? Um. A couple
of things came to mind. One is, I have never
watched men sit around a table and have meaningful conversations
about life and love and women and abuse and write
(09:15):
that whole very intimate setting that can be created in
your Man Enough episodes. Then there were some I was like,
I have no idea what these guys are talking about, Like,
what is happening here? What is going on? I'm certain
this conversation isn't about me. So I tell us about
man Enough and what is it that you aspire with
(09:36):
this platform? Yeah? Man Enough was again all of this
has just been an accidental journey, Like none of this
was planned, right. I wish I wish I could say
that I wrote this down and like a vision board
or something in my twenties, And I was like, I'm
going to build a brand for men, and no, none
of this was planned. I met my wife, she opened
(09:57):
me up. I had a daughter. You know, I was
raising the High Faith, and by faith were told that
we must take ourselves to account each day and that
we have to, um, we have to really look at
what brings us to loftiness or a basement. And you know,
for me, I've just always been very confused about what
it is to really be a man, because the world
(10:21):
tells me one thing, and my heart tells me another,
and the women in my life tell me another, and
then certain other men tell me another, and then the
movies I watched or the TV shows I watched tell
me what I mean. And there's so many different aspects
to masculinity and manhood and so many different um, so
many different ways of being a man that it's just
(10:42):
very it's honestly, very confusing, and I don't think it's
something that we as men ever stopped to question. The
other thing that's very confusing is how lonely it is. Right,
it's very lonely to be a man at times, because
one of the greatest myths of masculinity is that we
have to do it alone. Right, you're a man if
you can figure it out on your own. You're a
(11:03):
man if you don't have to ask for help. You're
a man if you don't have to asked for directions, right.
You know, you're a man if you can figure out
how to balance your work and your life and get
your get your six pack, right, you're a man if
you can figure out that project without having to like,
you know, get any help. Like it's just these are
the things that we are told, you know, one plus
(11:26):
one equals to our entire life. We are the things
that this is what equals masculinity. And it's also very
lowly and we were never given the emotional um language
to question these um signals in these beliefs. You know,
my my youngest son, Dallas, watched the several episodes and
(11:47):
he said something that was really interesting that UM he
said that for him, just using you know, saying things
like toxic masculinity or hyper masculinity UM feels feminine to him, Like, uh,
talking about masculinity is not very masculine. And I think
that's such a quandary that you're wrestling with in this platform.
(12:11):
It is though, I mean, that's the very reason we
started it is you bring up the word toxic masculinity
and this is this is what I want to go
back to earlier with the Ted Talk is I said
the word toxic at one point in it, and I said, like,
these things are toxic and they have to end. I
never said toxic masculinity. And what I found was that
the left liberal kind of news cycle magazines took the
(12:37):
Ted Talk and took it into Justin Baldoni fighting against
toxic masculinity, right, and the right took that and they
ran with it. And that is what your son is
responding to. Is what's happened is the word toxic and
masculinity have been put together as a liberal politicized word,
(12:57):
right that further widens the gap between you know, on
their left and the right, when this is not a
left or right issue. Right, it's unbelievable. Well, what's interesting
is that somehow the conversation around masculinity has also led
to being politicized, and one side uses words like that
(13:17):
against the other and they become politicized. Right, So toxic
masculinity refers to the fact that all men are toxic,
and that's not going to get us anywhere, just like
your son said, right, your son said, just even saying
that word makes me feel feminine to me, because we're
being programmed as men. Two feel like we are traitors
(13:42):
against our own gender, right, we're like disowning our own
gender and basically becoming women by acknowledging that there are
parts of ourselves or masculinity that are not good. But men,
it's an all or nothing thing, and that's what we're
fighting against. And so the conversations and back to the
why was I had never seen this model. I had
(14:03):
no idea how to have conversations with other men. Boys
and men are not taught how to engage with other men.
We don't. We're not even comfortable looking at our other
men in the eye, let alone asking calling other men
when we need help. Give no idea how to reach
out and talk to our guys when we're struggling, when
when we're dealing with things like addiction, or when we
get our hearts broken. We just are told that to
(14:24):
be a man, to keep our man card, to like
be considered an alpha masculine, we have to figure it out.
But how do you figure it out if you don't
have any way to nobody's ever modeled it for you.
Most men have not experienced like father is being emotionally
open to them and loving We aren't really born with
that language, so we're at a deficit before we even start.
(14:45):
So this conversation and the reason why it's uncomfortable for
you and the reason why it's uncomfortable for many men,
it's because we've never seen men have these conversations, and
I wanted to just create something that showed women and
men that there is a way to have conversation and dialogue. Um,
that is maybe different, but I'm happy that you were
(15:05):
uncomfortable because in some ways you should be good. I
played my part well. It was really it's really really
fantastic work. We'll be back after this break, you know,
(15:28):
speaking of uncomfortable. Archillette team did a campaign and the
title of the campaign was We Believe. It was all
about masculinity and the intention behind it, the aspiration was
to show men as positive role models for young boys.
It was a very honest portrayal. It contrasted the positive
role model with a not so positive role model. And
(15:49):
you know, we got a lot of feedback on that campaign.
We got a lot of love and we got some hate.
But in the end, I'm really proud of the team
for standing by their conviction and holding the aspiration that
they had front and center, which was to show men
as positive role models for young boys. I want to
call it a modern sense of masculinity, if I can
(16:10):
label it that way. Although I don't really like these labels,
but it is a way of showing a broader range
of behaviors that we can celebrate. Yeah, it's so important
to show those positive role models, mainly because sometimes we're
unable to see our own bias. I'll give you another
funny example of this. UM. I was working with one
(16:30):
of our haircut brands, UH in North America. This was
a number of years ago, and they were really excited
about a new piece of advertising copy that they were developing.
And they came to me and they said, I really
want you to see this because I think this is
going to take our brand to the next level. It's
going to be great. And they said, let me just
read you the concept. Let me read you what I'm
trying to do. And they started reading and they went
(16:51):
through and at one point they got to because when
she looks good, she can be her best. And I
stopped them and I said, okay, I said, just let's
just stop here for a minute. Let's just stop here
for a minute, and this our marketing VP was a man,
(17:12):
a wonderful person, wonderful individual. And I said, let's just
back that up a bit. I want you to reread that,
but I want you to reread it and substitute the
word he every time you say she, and read it
again with the same enthusiasm. And he started reading through it,
and he got to the point where he said, because
when he looks good, and he stopped and he and
(17:35):
he started laughing and he said, oh, my goodness, this
just sounds ridiculous. And I said, if it if it
sounds that ridiculous when you say he instead of she,
it probably sounds a little ridiculous on the other side
as well. But it became a great way and a
very simple tip that we used to see bias. We
call it flipped the pronoun. Wow, Like what a Jedi
(17:56):
way to do that, Like you just totally yo at
him in such a cool way, like flip the product.
But and this is what, But that's so cool because
you just I love that because you're just like in
a really calm way. That's like a mastery level like
mind trick that you did in the middle of a
meeting on the spot because you just went, Okay, this
(18:19):
is totally backwards, but he doesn't see it. And then
you found a way to flip it and he read
it and he came to the conclusion himself, which is
the only way that you can get to us and
to you. That's growth, right, And it's like it's just
how do you see it? How do you see it?
Like we again, we all have biases, right, every one
of us. And so the question is how do you
teach yourself to see them? How do you teach yourself
(18:40):
to look for them so that you can become better?
It was honestly, they did you know this? This brand
team has done such amazing work and and and they've
completely taken taken the game up and they're doing amazing
communication and I'm really proud of them. But again, it's
just it's continuing to continuing to learn for all of us. Hey, Jess,
(19:00):
and I have one other question for you here really quickly,
but it goes back to what we're talking about here.
It's both you know what people see an experience and
advertising what they see and experience in film and media.
And you have your own studio where you're you kind
of have a stated commitment to operate a little differently
and maybe show humanity in different ways. I'd love to
(19:24):
hear what you are doing with Wayfair Studios. Let me
tie this back to what we talked about earlier. I
have felt fairly disenfranchised and uh excluded from the Hollywood
community kind of for a while. UM, I was very
much put in a box where I was only you know,
I was only able to audition for certain things or
(19:44):
was seen as a certain way, and I just found
myself like feeling disenfranchised in the sense that like, nobody's
gonna give me a shot. So I got to create
my own and if I wanted to actually change something
that I had to find that I had to find
a way to bring the power UM and leverage that
power to UM to kind of push things across the
(20:05):
finish line. So I've raised a bunch of money. I
found a wonderful partner that shared the same beliefs as
I do, and part of that is pushing forward new
ideas of what it means to be a human and
telling the stories that maybe haven't been told because they
haven't made money, but they also haven't had the chance
to make money. Therefore, like you know, Um, it's the
(20:26):
same repeating cycle of why it's just only a new
Avengers movie that comes out every six months. There's room
for more stories told by people that look like those stories,
and we just wanted to try to build something new.
So it's through that frustration and being cut out of
the winds that we started this thing. And uh and
the studio is really essentially a place where anything is possible. Right.
(20:49):
We're working with brands like you know, like you guys
as as consultants and saying, hey, you know, maybe just
just like the Jedi and my trick, we are helping
brands figure out as well, which is like, what if
you flip that on its head or what if you
told the truth to your consumer? What about that? Um?
(21:10):
And how do we do that in film and television?
How do we tell people the truth? You know you
said earlier, Diana, that that you took a few hours
of your life to watch my content. That is the
greatest compliment that anybody could ever give me. Because the
one thing we know, and the one thing we think
about it wayfair, is that the most valuable asset, most
valuable resource in any of our lives is our time.
(21:33):
How are we spending that time. Right, So if you're
gonna give me two hours of your day four hours,
that's even right. That is a lot of time that
you are choosing to give to me that you're not
choosing to give us something else. So I better respect it,
and I better earn it, and I better add value
to your life with the content that I'm making and
(21:56):
also the content that we're choosing to spend time making,
because as we know, it takes a long time to
make good content, and all the people involved behind the scenes,
they're choosing to give that their time to something, and
we want to value and honor that time UM. And
so we're trying to build kind of an next generation
studio around those principles, which is touch the heart first,
(22:18):
the money will follow, because when it's we're not a nonprofit,
but we don't believe in the algorithms per se. That
a lot of the traditional studios UM employee, which is
like coming from the idea first, or or coming from
the the star first, or the I P first, We're
all about what can hit the heart and then you'll
break every every law, every rule because people will naturally
(22:41):
want to share it and give their time to it,
and uh, and we're just really we're really excited to
kind of go about it and disrupt for good. You know.
You know, I think you guys are doing such important
work and and in essence, you're creating this your show,
showing people this whole new possibility, right this all new
(23:01):
reality that the world can be. And oftentimes when men
take a look at gender equality or gender inequality, they
get invested in it through the lens of their wives,
their sisters, their daughters, and we think that creates empathy
and some momentum. And while it's a good start, it's
(23:23):
it's just not enough, and there's really the risk that
we continue to put the responsibility for equality on women
and girls. And so what we keep talking about is
the importance of encouraging parents to talk about equality gender
equality not only to their daughters, but also to their sons.
You have a daughter and a son. What's your perspective
(23:44):
on this, and what do you tell your daughter and
what do you tell your son? That's a great question.
I'm really thinking a lot about this right now. I
just I just I'm finishing the manuscript to my book,
which is about in April, and with that book comes
a middle grade book for boys eleven to fourteen and
(24:06):
a children's book. I think that equality, again, the teaching
and the and the understanding and the basic like one
plus one equals two version of equality needs to start
with our children, and it's rooted. I believe in in
(24:27):
spiritual values, right, and I say spiritual, not religious values,
but in the spiritual values that are the unseen things
that connect us all that help us all realize we're
all brothers and sisters. It's the thing that happens to
us when we see something horrific happen to someone like
a George Floyd. It's what happens in our solar plexus
and our bellies when we witness injustice right. And we
(24:51):
need to develop those parts of our children, the parts
that that generally understand right from wrong early, because those
to strengthen the empathetic genes, right, the compassionate genes. Is
then to give them a base by which when they
witness things in their life, they have a clear sense
of justice, of what is justin what is not, even
(25:14):
when it applies to them right, because that's where it starts.
They're not going to understand what's right or wrong. Um
for themselves if there if if if they're standing and
climbing over people to to win and at the end
of their life, because they're not going to realize that
every person they're climbing over, every person whose opportunity they
(25:37):
took from, you know, they took away, is just like them.
So it starts early on in the spiritual development I
believe of our children. Um. And in terms of what
I'm talking about with my kids, it is a it's
a daily conversation and it changes all the time. You know,
I have a boy and a girl, so you know,
for one, making sure that I'm aware of my own
(25:58):
biases as a parent, as a man, and my wife
is as well. Right, just just being mindful about the
language I use for my son, making sure I'm not
only always calling him buddy or dude or you know,
hey buddy, or hey budd or you know. And I've
noticed how how how the men who come around oftentimes
resort to that language, you know, um and instead kind
(26:20):
of complimenting his sweetheart, you know, using words I would
want to use for my daughter with my son. Right, Um,
the big thing we're doing right now is is really
teaching both of them. But focusing really on him. UM
that the strongest muscle in his body's his heart. UM.
And I'm trying to develop and build a language around
(26:44):
the heart because as my feeling of masculinity is that
it's it's it detaches you from that part of you, right,
and masculinity as I as I've experienced it, the heart
comes into play when it's broken. Um, when you get
your heart broken. So we say we say something every night,
(27:06):
The strongest muscle in my whole body is my heart.
And he says, I love my body, I love my mind,
I love my heart, and I love my soul. I
love myself, and I am enough. Because the thing that's
also important is if you believe you are enough. Right.
If my children grow up believing that they are enough
as they are, then they they aren't needing to fill
(27:28):
their gaps or their holes with the injustices or the
willing bystandard to watch somebody else suffer or to succeed
at the hands of somebody else. They know that they're
enough as they are, and they have more than enough
that they can share, which goes back to the equality issue, right,
which is why we call it man enough. It all
(27:49):
comes down to us as human beings, feeling like we
are enough as we are. And the last thing I'll
say is, I think it's important to note that the
work that I'm doing um right now is really about
undefining masculinity versus redefining masculinity. I want to undefine what
(28:09):
it means to be a man, because I think it
the problem lies in the definition. When we start to
define something, then by nature, there was going to be
somebody who's not included and that definition. And I believe
as human beings, we just have to be human beings, right.
(28:29):
We can be a man, or we can be a woman.
You can be general nonconforming, you can be all those
things were like. But my work is with the men
that are like me. So I want to undefine the
things that I've learned to create an ever expanding definition
of masculinity and the undefining of my masculinity. My heart
opens and my world and my work opens, and my
(28:51):
compassion increases, and my empathy increases, and my vocabulary changes,
and I see the world different and I'm able to
recognize my privilege because I really as I'm not being
attacked right, I'm being asked to open. So that's kind
of and and I'm sorry, I know I'm a rambler,
but that's the work that I'm doing at the moment
as I'm finishing my book and trying to teach my
children and understanding the cultural race um uprising that's happening,
(29:15):
and my own whiteness and what that even means, and
it's convergence with my masculinity. There's a lot, there's a
it's a rich time, um. But I'm also very excited
to then use that and share it with the privilege
that God gave me in a positive way. That's so amazing.
Your kids are going to be lucky human beings to
get you for a dad, and your wife as well.
(29:36):
I'm sure is there anything in this conversation that you
would say it's kind of a must have to show
up in a in a in a conversation about women
and men and intersectionality and power and privilege and all
the things that we've talked about. What I would say
is making sure that the conversation, this specific conversation takes
(29:59):
into account what we talked about earlier and paints a
picture of a man rejecting this notion of whether it
be feminism or or privilege as a whole human right,
and not as an antagonist, because if we start to
think about this fifty these men as antagonists, then we
(30:23):
are essentially putting them in a box because you have
to open their hearts. You have to open people's hearts,
and the way you do that is with love, right,
You do that with compassion and with empathy. And I
think it's that shift of of thinking of it in
a positive way and thinking of these people in a
positive way, and these men in a positive way where
(30:45):
we on maybe we feel woke, but on our side
we have to have compassion for them. I think when
you combine those two things, that's how you're going to
get more receptivity and change people's hearts and advance the
movement because nobody wants to have the conversation in the silo, right,
you know, justin you've this has been so much fun.
We could go on and on, but I think first
(31:08):
of all, I want to say thank you so much
for spending time with us today. And I think your
final comment about the importance of dialogue, the importance of
um accepting a broader view, making room for that whole person,
is exactly what we really advocate for well, it was
started by women, and uh, it's thanks to the women
(31:29):
in my life that I've even had the permission to
even have the conversation. So thank you guys for doing
all the work that you're doing, and and I hope
that I can help and be helpful in some way.
And thanks for having me on your podcast. Thank you, Justin.
That was so fun. It was good to see you again.
So good to see you guys. For sure. What an
(31:54):
incredible conversation. Justin has such a great outlook on how
we can all work together, women and men to advance equality.
Here are three takeaways I got from the conversation. First,
men must play a role in creating progress for women.
We can't get too equal without them. But this can
only happen when we have an open and honest dialogue
(32:15):
about power, privilege, and influence, and when our conversations come
from a place of compassion and respect. Second, as we've
heard before in this series, to make progress, we need
to shift the narrative to change how we talk about women,
men and leadership. We need to see past the old
definitions of masculinity and celebrate a broader, less confining range
(32:36):
of behavior. When we do that both men and women
will benefit. And finally, we learned a great technique from Caroline,
one that can truly reveal by us. Caroline calls it
flip the pronoun. Try it when you're speaking about a
woman or a man. Replace the word she with he
or he with she and see how quickly bias is revealed.
(32:57):
To learn more about Justin's work, go to man in
a dot com and join us. Next week when Caroline
and Diana talked to best selling author Eve Rodsky about
why getting to equal at home is also critical to
getting to equal in the workplace. Have a great week.
You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose,
(33:20):
brought to you by the Seneca Women podcast Network and
I Heart Radio with support from founding partner p And
Listen to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose on
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts, and please support this podcast by telling
your friends, subscribing and rating us. For more information on
(33:41):
Seneca Women, follow us on social media, visit our website
Seneca Women dot com, and check out the Seneca Women
app free in the app Store.
Hi, This is Malan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli.
We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose, and you're listening to
Seneca's conversations on power and Purpose. Welcome to this special edition.
(00:24):
This new six part series called Getting to Equal will
change the way you think about women and leadership, and
it comes at a time when women's leadership has never
been more crucial. We have two amazing leaders who are
guest hosting these six episodes, Carol and Tastad, Group President
North America and Deiana Bass, vice President Global Diversity, Equality
(00:45):
and Inclusion, both from PNG, one of the largest consumer
goods companies in the world. Together, Caroline and Diana have
created an impressive gender equality strategy for PNG, and it's
a strategy that's really breaking new ground on these issues
in the private sector. And they'll be joined by incredible
guests from all walks of life. In this second episode
of Getting to Equal, Carolyn and Dianna talk with actor, director, producer,
(01:09):
and entrepreneur Justin Baldoni. They discuss why the old definitions
of masculinity don't work for anyone and why men's participation
is critical in achieving gender equality. Caroline Diana, thanks ver
much for joining us again and for guest hosting this series.
Thanks Kim. I want to introduce our guest today, Justin Baldoni,
who we all know and love from his role on
(01:30):
Jane the Virgin. Justin is a producer, director, entrepreneur, and
owns his own studio, Wayfarer Studios, an independent financial and
production engine, pioneering purpose driven, multi platform film and television
productions that elevate and speak to the human spirit. He's
also created a dinner conversation series called Man Enough, which
(01:52):
ties into traditional masculinity while focusing on topics like body image, relationships,
and fatherhood. Justin is and using his influence to dismantle
traditional ideas of masculinity now. Justin first became known as
an advocate for gender equality in two thousand seventeen when
he did a TED Talk titled Why I'm Done Trying
(02:13):
to Be Man Enough. So far that Ted Talk has
received over seventy million views globally. We're so excited to
have him on our show today. Welcome Justin. It's so
funny how the introductions always make you seem way cooler
than you are. Grateful to be here with both of you.
You're doing such great work. So you know you and
(02:33):
I are talking earlier. We first met back in two
thousand and seventeen at that TED Women's conference, and our
friend Alison Tuman campus was in the house with me,
and we were sitting there watching you, and we had
this realization that the things that we were trying to
change in our own culture and in the world were
so related to the things that you were talking about
(02:54):
on stage about reframing masculinity. So tell us about that
Ted talk and why it was so important for you
to do that. You say, Ted talking, like all that
anxiety kind of comes right back. You know, that was
a really bizarre time in my life. But I can't
believe it's gonna be three years because I measured the
(03:15):
Ted talk. Um my son was My son was born,
like I think, maybe five days before or seven days
before the talk, So he's going to be three in
this October. Look, I am not an expert in a
gender studies or feminism or honestly, masculinity. I am an
(03:36):
expert in my own masculinity. But that's it. And when
they approached me about doing a TED talk around masculinity,
My first response was like, Wow, I didn't feel ready
imposter syndrome kicked in, which which yes, man experience too.
And it was also terrified because I knew that it
(03:59):
was coming at a time when we were just starting
to become ah even more polarized as it relates to
conversations around manhood and masculinity and feminism, and the words
were being weaponized. And I realized that I was so
afraid because it was so important. But more than anything,
(04:25):
I'm grateful that there was such a massive response, predominantly
by women. But the men that it did touch, the
men that found it on their own, or the men
that founded through the women in their lives and the
women that they loved also Ted posted like a two
and a half minute clip on Facebook that like had
like fifteen million views in like a couple of weeks,
and I remember looking through that and seeing how many
(04:49):
men were also attacking me and hating on it. There
was nothing revolutionary about what I said. This was me
just saying like, hey, guys, let's be better guys, or hey,
let's not run a way from the parts of us
that make us human, or hey, we can be compassionate
and emotional just like the women in our lives. That
doesn't mean that we're any less of a man. The
bar is way too low. We could crawl over it
(05:11):
and uh, and let's start to raise the bar a
little by little. Yeah, that's so great, justin you know,
early in our work, we realized that men had to
be part of the solution for us. They had to
be equal partners and the work that we were doing
on gender equality if we were going to make any
progress at all. I mean, that's part of what we
(05:32):
sparked to in your Ted talk. So inside PNG, we
often use the word privilege, and we're really trying to
normalize that word because we think it's an important conversation
for us to have. But it's a really scratchy word.
So what do you think about privilege? If you don't
know what it is because you're blind to seeing it,
(05:55):
then the second you hear the word, you're only attributing
it to what you're seeing politically, which means politically, I'm
being attacked. What we also know about privilege is for
the people who have it, asking for equality feels like
oppression because it feels like you're being you're you're having
your rights or your privileges, or just simply the way
(06:18):
you've seen the world taken from you, so suddenly you're
going to have less than what you have now, right,
And that's where I think it's important for the compassion
to come in. And this is where I feel a
lot for these men is these are hard working men
that are fighting to take care of their families, just
(06:39):
like we all are, just like you are. And the
idea that that um there that they have privilege and
many of these men's minds would mean that their lives
are simple or their lives are easy and they have
more than and the reality is that's not the case
for a lot of these men. So I believe this
is a long answer to your question, and I'm not
(07:00):
gonna answer your whole question because we don't have enough time.
But my personal feelings as somebody who's not an expert,
who doesn't have a PhD, who really doesn't even have
a reason to be having this conversation except for the
work that I'm doing on myself, is that if you
want to bridge the gap, we have to be careful
and get away from the rhetoric and the politicized language
(07:23):
that is making a lot of these men um feel attacked,
even if they are being attacked, or even if they're
being overly overly sensitive, Because if you want to get
to the men, we have to which is again the
very thing that women excel at far greater than men,
is compassion, empathy. We have to speak to them in
(07:46):
the language they can understand and let them know that
they're not bad people. And I think this whole notion
of how tough it is to have the conversation is
part of what we're trying to get at. Justin, when
you talk about this, you often talk about using your
in fluence. What do you mean by that what you
both are doing right now? And you are saying, well,
how do we use what we have to now do good?
(08:09):
How do we use what we have? How do we
use our voice? How do we use our privilege to
find a way to actually bring people together and talk
about things? And I'm so grateful that there are, you know,
so many women at the top, especially in your organization,
that are fighting for that. So Justin, in preparation for
this discussion, I invested several hours of my personal time
(08:30):
and watching Man Enough episodes. I even, you know, recruited
my sons to participate with me. They're in their twenties,
so and I found the discussions intriguing and lightning. UM.
And I also found myself very uncomfortable at times. And UM,
(08:52):
I think that I, like, I had to really think
about why am I uncomfortable watching this? Um. A couple
of things came to mind. One is, I have never
watched men sit around a table and have meaningful conversations
about life and love and women and abuse and write
(09:15):
that whole very intimate setting that can be created in
your Man Enough episodes. Then there were some I was like,
I have no idea what these guys are talking about, Like,
what is happening here? What is going on? I'm certain
this conversation isn't about me. So I tell us about
man Enough and what is it that you aspire with
(09:36):
this platform? Yeah? Man Enough was again all of this
has just been an accidental journey, Like none of this
was planned, right. I wish I wish I could say
that I wrote this down and like a vision board
or something in my twenties, And I was like, I'm
going to build a brand for men, and no, none
of this was planned. I met my wife, she opened
(09:57):
me up. I had a daughter. You know, I was
raising the High Faith, and by faith were told that
we must take ourselves to account each day and that
we have to, um, we have to really look at
what brings us to loftiness or a basement. And you know,
for me, I've just always been very confused about what
it is to really be a man, because the world
(10:21):
tells me one thing, and my heart tells me another,
and the women in my life tell me another, and
then certain other men tell me another, and then the
movies I watched or the TV shows I watched tell
me what I mean. And there's so many different aspects
to masculinity and manhood and so many different um, so
many different ways of being a man that it's just
(10:42):
very it's honestly, very confusing, and I don't think it's
something that we as men ever stopped to question. The
other thing that's very confusing is how lonely it is. Right,
it's very lonely to be a man at times, because
one of the greatest myths of masculinity is that we
have to do it alone. Right, you're a man if
you can figure it out on your own. You're a
(11:03):
man if you don't have to ask for help. You're
a man if you don't have to asked for directions, right.
You know, you're a man if you can figure out
how to balance your work and your life and get
your get your six pack, right, you're a man if
you can figure out that project without having to like,
you know, get any help. Like it's just these are
the things that we are told, you know, one plus
(11:26):
one equals to our entire life. We are the things
that this is what equals masculinity. And it's also very
lowly and we were never given the emotional um language
to question these um signals in these beliefs. You know,
my my youngest son, Dallas, watched the several episodes and
(11:47):
he said something that was really interesting that UM he
said that for him, just using you know, saying things
like toxic masculinity or hyper masculinity UM feels feminine to him, Like, uh,
talking about masculinity is not very masculine. And I think
that's such a quandary that you're wrestling with in this platform.
(12:11):
It is though, I mean, that's the very reason we
started it is you bring up the word toxic masculinity
and this is this is what I want to go
back to earlier with the Ted Talk is I said
the word toxic at one point in it, and I said, like,
these things are toxic and they have to end. I
never said toxic masculinity. And what I found was that
the left liberal kind of news cycle magazines took the
(12:37):
Ted Talk and took it into Justin Baldoni fighting against
toxic masculinity, right, and the right took that and they
ran with it. And that is what your son is
responding to. Is what's happened is the word toxic and
masculinity have been put together as a liberal politicized word,
(12:57):
right that further widens the gap between you know, on
their left and the right, when this is not a
left or right issue. Right, it's unbelievable. Well, what's interesting
is that somehow the conversation around masculinity has also led
to being politicized, and one side uses words like that
(13:17):
against the other and they become politicized. Right, So toxic
masculinity refers to the fact that all men are toxic,
and that's not going to get us anywhere, just like
your son said, right, your son said, just even saying
that word makes me feel feminine to me, because we're
being programmed as men. Two feel like we are traitors
(13:42):
against our own gender, right, we're like disowning our own
gender and basically becoming women by acknowledging that there are
parts of ourselves or masculinity that are not good. But men,
it's an all or nothing thing, and that's what we're
fighting against. And so the conversations and back to the
why was I had never seen this model. I had
(14:03):
no idea how to have conversations with other men. Boys
and men are not taught how to engage with other men.
We don't. We're not even comfortable looking at our other
men in the eye, let alone asking calling other men
when we need help. Give no idea how to reach
out and talk to our guys when we're struggling, when
when we're dealing with things like addiction, or when we
get our hearts broken. We just are told that to
(14:24):
be a man, to keep our man card, to like
be considered an alpha masculine, we have to figure it out.
But how do you figure it out if you don't
have any way to nobody's ever modeled it for you.
Most men have not experienced like father is being emotionally
open to them and loving We aren't really born with
that language, so we're at a deficit before we even start.
(14:45):
So this conversation and the reason why it's uncomfortable for
you and the reason why it's uncomfortable for many men,
it's because we've never seen men have these conversations, and
I wanted to just create something that showed women and
men that there is a way to have conversation and dialogue. Um,
that is maybe different, but I'm happy that you were
(15:05):
uncomfortable because in some ways you should be good. I
played my part well. It was really it's really really
fantastic work. We'll be back after this break, you know,
(15:28):
speaking of uncomfortable. Archillette team did a campaign and the
title of the campaign was We Believe. It was all
about masculinity and the intention behind it, the aspiration was
to show men as positive role models for young boys.
It was a very honest portrayal. It contrasted the positive
role model with a not so positive role model. And
(15:49):
you know, we got a lot of feedback on that campaign.
We got a lot of love and we got some hate.
But in the end, I'm really proud of the team
for standing by their conviction and holding the aspiration that
they had front and center, which was to show men
as positive role models for young boys. I want to
call it a modern sense of masculinity, if I can
(16:10):
label it that way. Although I don't really like these labels,
but it is a way of showing a broader range
of behaviors that we can celebrate. Yeah, it's so important
to show those positive role models, mainly because sometimes we're
unable to see our own bias. I'll give you another
funny example of this. UM. I was working with one
(16:30):
of our haircut brands, UH in North America. This was
a number of years ago, and they were really excited
about a new piece of advertising copy that they were developing.
And they came to me and they said, I really
want you to see this because I think this is
going to take our brand to the next level. It's
going to be great. And they said, let me just
read you the concept. Let me read you what I'm
trying to do. And they started reading and they went
(16:51):
through and at one point they got to because when
she looks good, she can be her best. And I
stopped them and I said, okay, I said, just let's
just stop here for a minute. Let's just stop here
for a minute, and this our marketing VP was a man,
(17:12):
a wonderful person, wonderful individual. And I said, let's just
back that up a bit. I want you to reread that,
but I want you to reread it and substitute the
word he every time you say she, and read it
again with the same enthusiasm. And he started reading through it,
and he got to the point where he said, because
when he looks good, and he stopped and he and
(17:35):
he started laughing and he said, oh, my goodness, this
just sounds ridiculous. And I said, if it if it
sounds that ridiculous when you say he instead of she,
it probably sounds a little ridiculous on the other side
as well. But it became a great way and a
very simple tip that we used to see bias. We
call it flipped the pronoun. Wow, Like what a Jedi
(17:56):
way to do that, Like you just totally yo at
him in such a cool way, like flip the product.
But and this is what, But that's so cool because
you just I love that because you're just like in
a really calm way. That's like a mastery level like
mind trick that you did in the middle of a
meeting on the spot because you just went, Okay, this
(18:19):
is totally backwards, but he doesn't see it. And then
you found a way to flip it and he read
it and he came to the conclusion himself, which is
the only way that you can get to us and
to you. That's growth, right, And it's like it's just
how do you see it? How do you see it?
Like we again, we all have biases, right, every one
of us. And so the question is how do you
teach yourself to see them? How do you teach yourself
(18:40):
to look for them so that you can become better?
It was honestly, they did you know this? This brand
team has done such amazing work and and and they've
completely taken taken the game up and they're doing amazing
communication and I'm really proud of them. But again, it's
just it's continuing to continuing to learn for all of us. Hey, Jess,
(19:00):
and I have one other question for you here really quickly,
but it goes back to what we're talking about here.
It's both you know what people see an experience and
advertising what they see and experience in film and media.
And you have your own studio where you're you kind
of have a stated commitment to operate a little differently
and maybe show humanity in different ways. I'd love to
(19:24):
hear what you are doing with Wayfair Studios. Let me
tie this back to what we talked about earlier. I
have felt fairly disenfranchised and uh excluded from the Hollywood
community kind of for a while. UM, I was very
much put in a box where I was only you know,
I was only able to audition for certain things or
(19:44):
was seen as a certain way, and I just found
myself like feeling disenfranchised in the sense that like, nobody's
gonna give me a shot. So I got to create
my own and if I wanted to actually change something
that I had to find that I had to find
a way to bring the power UM and leverage that
power to UM to kind of push things across the
(20:05):
finish line. So I've raised a bunch of money. I
found a wonderful partner that shared the same beliefs as
I do, and part of that is pushing forward new
ideas of what it means to be a human and
telling the stories that maybe haven't been told because they
haven't made money, but they also haven't had the chance
to make money. Therefore, like you know, Um, it's the
(20:26):
same repeating cycle of why it's just only a new
Avengers movie that comes out every six months. There's room
for more stories told by people that look like those stories,
and we just wanted to try to build something new.
So it's through that frustration and being cut out of
the winds that we started this thing. And uh and
the studio is really essentially a place where anything is possible. Right.
(20:49):
We're working with brands like you know, like you guys
as as consultants and saying, hey, you know, maybe just
just like the Jedi and my trick, we are helping
brands figure out as well, which is like, what if
you flip that on its head or what if you
told the truth to your consumer? What about that? Um?
(21:10):
And how do we do that in film and television?
How do we tell people the truth? You know you
said earlier, Diana, that that you took a few hours
of your life to watch my content. That is the
greatest compliment that anybody could ever give me. Because the
one thing we know, and the one thing we think
about it wayfair, is that the most valuable asset, most
valuable resource in any of our lives is our time.
(21:33):
How are we spending that time. Right, So if you're
gonna give me two hours of your day four hours,
that's even right. That is a lot of time that
you are choosing to give to me that you're not
choosing to give us something else. So I better respect it,
and I better earn it, and I better add value
to your life with the content that I'm making and
(21:56):
also the content that we're choosing to spend time making,
because as we know, it takes a long time to
make good content, and all the people involved behind the scenes,
they're choosing to give that their time to something, and
we want to value and honor that time UM. And
so we're trying to build kind of an next generation
studio around those principles, which is touch the heart first,
(22:18):
the money will follow, because when it's we're not a nonprofit,
but we don't believe in the algorithms per se. That
a lot of the traditional studios UM employee, which is
like coming from the idea first, or or coming from
the the star first, or the I P first, We're
all about what can hit the heart and then you'll
break every every law, every rule because people will naturally
(22:41):
want to share it and give their time to it,
and uh, and we're just really we're really excited to
kind of go about it and disrupt for good. You know.
You know, I think you guys are doing such important
work and and in essence, you're creating this your show,
showing people this whole new possibility, right this all new
(23:01):
reality that the world can be. And oftentimes when men
take a look at gender equality or gender inequality, they
get invested in it through the lens of their wives,
their sisters, their daughters, and we think that creates empathy
and some momentum. And while it's a good start, it's
(23:23):
it's just not enough, and there's really the risk that
we continue to put the responsibility for equality on women
and girls. And so what we keep talking about is
the importance of encouraging parents to talk about equality gender
equality not only to their daughters, but also to their sons.
You have a daughter and a son. What's your perspective
(23:44):
on this, and what do you tell your daughter and
what do you tell your son? That's a great question.
I'm really thinking a lot about this right now. I
just I just I'm finishing the manuscript to my book,
which is about in April, and with that book comes
a middle grade book for boys eleven to fourteen and
(24:06):
a children's book. I think that equality, again, the teaching
and the and the understanding and the basic like one
plus one equals two version of equality needs to start
with our children, and it's rooted. I believe in in
(24:27):
spiritual values, right, and I say spiritual, not religious values,
but in the spiritual values that are the unseen things
that connect us all that help us all realize we're
all brothers and sisters. It's the thing that happens to
us when we see something horrific happen to someone like
a George Floyd. It's what happens in our solar plexus
and our bellies when we witness injustice right. And we
(24:51):
need to develop those parts of our children, the parts
that that generally understand right from wrong early, because those
to strengthen the empathetic genes, right, the compassionate genes. Is
then to give them a base by which when they
witness things in their life, they have a clear sense
of justice, of what is justin what is not, even
(25:14):
when it applies to them right, because that's where it starts.
They're not going to understand what's right or wrong. Um
for themselves if there if if if they're standing and
climbing over people to to win and at the end
of their life, because they're not going to realize that
every person they're climbing over, every person whose opportunity they
(25:37):
took from, you know, they took away, is just like them.
So it starts early on in the spiritual development I
believe of our children. Um. And in terms of what
I'm talking about with my kids, it is a it's
a daily conversation and it changes all the time. You know,
I have a boy and a girl, so you know,
for one, making sure that I'm aware of my own
(25:58):
biases as a parent, as a man, and my wife
is as well. Right, just just being mindful about the
language I use for my son, making sure I'm not
only always calling him buddy or dude or you know,
hey buddy, or hey budd or you know. And I've
noticed how how how the men who come around oftentimes
resort to that language, you know, um and instead kind
(26:20):
of complimenting his sweetheart, you know, using words I would
want to use for my daughter with my son. Right, Um,
the big thing we're doing right now is is really
teaching both of them. But focusing really on him. UM
that the strongest muscle in his body's his heart. UM.
And I'm trying to develop and build a language around
(26:44):
the heart because as my feeling of masculinity is that
it's it's it detaches you from that part of you, right,
and masculinity as I as I've experienced it, the heart
comes into play when it's broken. Um, when you get
your heart broken. So we say we say something every night,
(27:06):
The strongest muscle in my whole body is my heart.
And he says, I love my body, I love my mind,
I love my heart, and I love my soul. I
love myself, and I am enough. Because the thing that's
also important is if you believe you are enough. Right.
If my children grow up believing that they are enough
as they are, then they they aren't needing to fill
(27:28):
their gaps or their holes with the injustices or the
willing bystandard to watch somebody else suffer or to succeed
at the hands of somebody else. They know that they're
enough as they are, and they have more than enough
that they can share, which goes back to the equality issue, right,
which is why we call it man enough. It all
(27:49):
comes down to us as human beings, feeling like we
are enough as we are. And the last thing I'll
say is, I think it's important to note that the
work that I'm doing um right now is really about
undefining masculinity versus redefining masculinity. I want to undefine what
(28:09):
it means to be a man, because I think it
the problem lies in the definition. When we start to
define something, then by nature, there was going to be
somebody who's not included and that definition. And I believe
as human beings, we just have to be human beings, right.
(28:29):
We can be a man, or we can be a woman.
You can be general nonconforming, you can be all those
things were like. But my work is with the men
that are like me. So I want to undefine the
things that I've learned to create an ever expanding definition
of masculinity and the undefining of my masculinity. My heart
opens and my world and my work opens, and my
(28:51):
compassion increases, and my empathy increases, and my vocabulary changes,
and I see the world different and I'm able to
recognize my privilege because I really as I'm not being
attacked right, I'm being asked to open. So that's kind
of and and I'm sorry, I know I'm a rambler,
but that's the work that I'm doing at the moment
as I'm finishing my book and trying to teach my
children and understanding the cultural race um uprising that's happening,
(29:15):
and my own whiteness and what that even means, and
it's convergence with my masculinity. There's a lot, there's a
it's a rich time, um. But I'm also very excited
to then use that and share it with the privilege
that God gave me in a positive way. That's so amazing.
Your kids are going to be lucky human beings to
get you for a dad, and your wife as well.
(29:36):
I'm sure is there anything in this conversation that you
would say it's kind of a must have to show
up in a in a in a conversation about women
and men and intersectionality and power and privilege and all
the things that we've talked about. What I would say
is making sure that the conversation, this specific conversation takes
(29:59):
into account what we talked about earlier and paints a
picture of a man rejecting this notion of whether it
be feminism or or privilege as a whole human right,
and not as an antagonist, because if we start to
think about this fifty these men as antagonists, then we
(30:23):
are essentially putting them in a box because you have
to open their hearts. You have to open people's hearts,
and the way you do that is with love, right,
You do that with compassion and with empathy. And I
think it's that shift of of thinking of it in
a positive way and thinking of these people in a
positive way, and these men in a positive way where
(30:45):
we on maybe we feel woke, but on our side
we have to have compassion for them. I think when
you combine those two things, that's how you're going to
get more receptivity and change people's hearts and advance the
movement because nobody wants to have the conversation in the silo, right,
you know, justin you've this has been so much fun.
We could go on and on, but I think first
(31:08):
of all, I want to say thank you so much
for spending time with us today. And I think your
final comment about the importance of dialogue, the importance of
um accepting a broader view, making room for that whole person,
is exactly what we really advocate for well, it was
started by women, and uh, it's thanks to the women
(31:29):
in my life that I've even had the permission to
even have the conversation. So thank you guys for doing
all the work that you're doing, and and I hope
that I can help and be helpful in some way.
And thanks for having me on your podcast. Thank you, Justin.
That was so fun. It was good to see you again.
So good to see you guys. For sure. What an
(31:54):
incredible conversation. Justin has such a great outlook on how
we can all work together, women and men to advance equality.
Here are three takeaways I got from the conversation. First,
men must play a role in creating progress for women.
We can't get too equal without them. But this can
only happen when we have an open and honest dialogue
(32:15):
about power, privilege, and influence, and when our conversations come
from a place of compassion and respect. Second, as we've
heard before in this series, to make progress, we need
to shift the narrative to change how we talk about women,
men and leadership. We need to see past the old
definitions of masculinity and celebrate a broader, less confining range
(32:36):
of behavior. When we do that both men and women
will benefit. And finally, we learned a great technique from Caroline,
one that can truly reveal by us. Caroline calls it
flip the pronoun. Try it when you're speaking about a
woman or a man. Replace the word she with he
or he with she and see how quickly bias is revealed.
(32:57):
To learn more about Justin's work, go to man in
a dot com and join us. Next week when Caroline
and Diana talked to best selling author Eve Rodsky about
why getting to equal at home is also critical to
getting to equal in the workplace. Have a great week.
You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose,
(33:20):
brought to you by the Seneca Women podcast Network and
I Heart Radio with support from founding partner p And
Listen to Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose on
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts, and please support this podcast by telling
your friends, subscribing and rating us. For more information on
(33:41):
Seneca Women, follow us on social media, visit our website
Seneca Women dot com, and check out the Seneca Women
app free in the app Store.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.