This special, six-part series, done in collaboration with MAKERS, features conversations about fostering diversity, equality and inclusion in the workplace. Guest hosted by Amena Brown—poet, author and host of the podcast HER with Amena Brown—today's episode features Thasunda Brown Duckett, CEO of TIAA, Jana Rich, founder, Rich Talent Group, and Lybra Clemons, Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer at Twilio.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm Kim Azzarelli and you're listening to Seneca's conversations on
power and Purpose. I am so delighted to partner with
Makers on the special six part series called Keep Going.
In this series, we listen to incredible conversations from Makers
Conferences with a special focus on d e I. The
goal is to use these podcasts as a jumping off
(00:30):
point for conversations about d e I in your own organization.
I want to give a special thanks to the Maker's
conference sponsors PNG Price, Waterhouse Coopers an official wellness sponsor
Lulu Lemon. Now. We launched the Seneca Women Podcast Network
about a year ago with founding partner PNGNG and I
(00:50):
Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the voices of
women around the world. You probably know that podcasting is
a fast growing industry, with over fifty cent of podcast
audience being women. But what you may not know is
that only twenty of top podcasts are hosted by women.
We want to change that, so we are launching dozens
(01:11):
of women focused and women led podcasts. So if you
have a show where you want to collaborate on a show,
reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot
com Now, it gives me great pleasure to introduce our
guest host for the Keep Going series, Amina Brown. Amina
is a spoken word poet, author and host of the
podcast Her with Amina Brown on the Seneca Women Podcast Network. Amina,
(01:36):
thanks so much for joining us. Thanks Kim. I'm so
honored to be the guest host of this special series
and collaboration with Makers, and I'm so glad you're tuning
in with us because these conversations have been inspiring and
challenging in the best way. Today, we're listening to an
excerpt from an incredible conversation between two Shonda Brown Duckett,
(01:57):
President and CEO of t I A A and Janna Rich,
founder and CEO of Rich Talent Group. They'll be talking
about how we can create more diverse workplaces. This conversation
took place at the recent Makers conference, and I know
you're going to get something out of this conversation because
when I first listened to it, I felt so charged
(02:20):
up to continue doing the work of what it means
for the places we work to be diverse, equitable, and inclusive.
Following the conversation, I'll be joined by Libra Clemens. Libra
serves as chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion officer at Tulio
the Cloud Communications, a customer engagement platform. Libra and I
(02:40):
are going to talk about what we're hearing in this conversation,
and she will give us some practical suggestions that we
can bring back to the spaces where we work. Here's
Janna and to Shonda Tee, what would you say? You've
got a lot of companies who are genuinely committed to
increasing the opportunities for women, people of color, lgbt Q folks,
(03:02):
but they may not all know how to push that needle.
How any words of wisdom for how we create more
space for great women, people of color and LGBTQ people. Yeah,
I mean, first and foremost, we have to decide, and
you and I have had this conversation, Um, we have
to decide that talent is created equally, opportunity is not.
(03:28):
We have to decide that the way in which we
may have sourced talent, or the areas of credentializing that
we hold onto in terms of our past that did
not include women, black, women, people of color, l g
b t Q, that was out and proud and unapologetic,
then we have to say, what else do we need
(03:49):
to add into this formula so that we can make
sure that we are identifying great talent. And so I
think deciding a step one. I think step too, which
is the accountability of senior leaders, is who are your
core lieutenants. Who are the people that you are hiring,
and do they share that same conviction, that same mindset,
(04:11):
and that same level of action. Because if you do that,
when you look around your table and you say does
my table represent the culture that I embody? And if
the answer is yes, the word that will be in
your company and your organization, which is just like in
financial services, the power of compounding, and what we have
to do is have that compounding mindset that says, if
(04:34):
we get one, then we get to then we get three.
And by the way, compounding is additive. We're not taking
the seat from someone, We're creating the space for everyone
to be seen to have opportunity. So decide who are
you hiring in those real key positions that can hire
the people. This is not a diversity hr solely exercise.
(04:57):
These are the people that's your CFO, the person snose,
your CEO, the person who's running the p m L.
It's their accountability and then lastly, I would say it
is about being committed inconsistent, just like in running a big,
powerful business, it's about the overtime performance. We have to
make sure that diversity and inclusion and all of these
(05:18):
beautiful words are not the flavor of the month. It's
not an initiative. It becomes core to your how and
when we do that, we will change the phase, we
will change the outcomes, and we will change the level
of talent that enters the halls of Corporate America or
quite frankly, any industry and sector that does not have
(05:40):
the representation that you just outline, Jana. And what would
you say to women and especially women of color who
are facing barriers to their advancement, the types of microaggressions
that they have faced in the workplace, any words of
wisdom or inspiration for them? Oh? Yeah, I mean, first
and foremost, I think we have to know that we
(06:03):
are worthy and deserving of everything and be unapologetic about it.
And so when you are having those microaggressions or some
of those um slight remarks, you know where they're almost
questioning your existence, as if your gender or your complexion
(06:25):
was the only reason why you got the jobs and
they were lazy because they didn't do the research. So
you don't even need to own that narrative. But I
would say it's important to know that you are worthy
and deserving because quite frankly, the biggest hurdle that we
have to overcome many times, especially as black women, is
the mental gymnastics that we do in our head when
we see and feel these microaggressions and and just feel
(06:48):
like we can't get ahead. Secondly, know that your voice
is necessary and required and do not dim your light.
And in order to do that, and this is why
I love this conference. The power of the sister it
that's where we have to connect. We have to say,
you know what, I might be the only Black woman
in a senior role in the company, but there's my
(07:08):
white sister, or my Asian sister, or my l G
B t Q sister that we have to come together
and say, hey, I need you, I need you. And
so I think we have to create that space for
that vulnerability, that space for us to really share what's
on our minds and in our spirit so that we
can navigate these waters um collectively and together. And then lastly,
(07:29):
lastly I would say is be unapologetic of the impact
and the power that you have to make sure that
that next black girl, or that next woman or person
of color does not have to have the exact same
road that you just traveled. We have to make it
a little easier for the next person, and that is
(07:51):
why we cannot give up even when we were dealing
with the storms that we all face and will continue
to face until we see a lot more representation of
the sisterhood at every level of corporate America or just
business in general. What a great conversation between two Shanda
Brown Duckett and Janna rich Now, I'm delighted to welcome
(08:11):
Libra Clements, Chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Officer at Tulio. Libra,
it has touched me that this section of the conversation
we're listening to that we got to hear to Shonda
say these words specifically two women of color in the workplace,
and the two phrases that stuck out to me right
(08:32):
there is when she reminded us you are worthy and
do not dim your light. Exactly if we weren't recording,
I would bang on things just hearing that. I mean,
did you feel this way too? I did I did.
It hit me to my core because it's something that
you have to remind yourself on a regular basis when
you wake up every day, because you wake up, you
(08:54):
go to work, whatever the organization, whatever the company is,
and there was something chipping at you, chipping away at
you on a regular basis. So you have to continue
to fill yourself up and continue to think and just
remind yourself that you are worthy, that you cannot demn
your light. It's hard, it's a process. And I think
about me like fifteen years ago in the workplace, and
(09:18):
every little thing used to just break me down. I
would be like in tears at home, in a fetal position.
And as I got older, you know, you start to
figure out and you surround yourself by people and other
things too. You know, make sure that you know that
you are worthy, make sure that you are connected to
folks who are constantly filling your cup and that there
(09:41):
you know, and they're reminding you not to demn your
your light at all. But it is it's it's certainly
a process that they gets a practice. It is a
practice to remind yourself because the world is not set
up for you, especially black women. I love the fact
that you call that black women, let's just call it,
you know, and as a black woman, every day you
wake up and you're wondering what is my day going
to be like because you just don't know what you're
(10:03):
going to encounter, intentional or not. You know, I'm not
saying everyone's out to get you, but you have to
face those obstacles on a regular basis. And so I
loved it. I think that was like, it just hit
to the core. Yeah, I I feel similar to you
in this and just thinking about specifically what it has
meant for me to come up with that practice. I
(10:26):
love that you said that word, Libra, that it's a
practice of walking into these spaces and remembering your worthy,
remembering not to dim your light. I want to bring
up another quote that to Shaunda brought up here and
ask for your reflections on it. To Shaunda said, talent
is equal, opportunity is not exactly what can we do
(10:47):
in our workspaces to bring up opportunity so that opportunity
can of course, in our best, most ideal situation, that
opportunity is up there with talent. We know that we
have folks who are black folks, people of color, are
BIPOP folks, are l G B t Q plus folks,
are disabled community folks. Right, we know the talents here, right,
(11:11):
how do we bring how do we bring that opportunity
up there to to be equal to that. Well two things.
One is, and this is my strategy all the time,
you need those types of people in senior roles because
they are setting the tone and the agenda for the
rest of the organization. And part of the problems that
have with a lot of diversity programs like oh, we're
gonna hire all these people at the more the earlier
(11:33):
career level where there's not a lot of access and
power and so forth. So if you get them, and
to Sanda said this, you know, if you get your CFO,
your c O and all those people, but you hire
them and those key roles that are decision making, they
can start to shift that to start to think about
equality because then that that that like senior level, you know,
(11:56):
that c suite level, that starts to shift a bit
and you start to about the opportunities because you hope
they are creating opportunities for other people. So I say
shoot high. The second thing is um and this is
a I've been in the diversity space for a very
very long time, and the word equity is something that
you're seeing in the d e I space. Used to
(12:17):
be diversity, inclusion and belonging. Now it's like all about
equity because acknowledge that the talent is equal, the opportunities
are not. And within equity, what does that mean You're
hiring processes there have to disrupt them to ensure there's
equity around that. The same thing with how you're being
evaluatedt promotions and all of that. And if you ask
(12:40):
anybody what they want in a workplace is they want
equal treatment. They want equal access, equal opportunities to actually
make the same amount of money as everyone else, opportunities
to advance their careers or not, opportunities to actually go
on leave and come back. And so what I think
companies have to do is ensure that within their people
(13:04):
processes they are doing what they can to disrupt all
those biases to create equity. But I love that line
because part of the problem is you have this mindset
that the talent isn't equal. That you know, oh, and
it tries me crazy when people say lowering the bar amina.
(13:24):
I literally want to jump out my skin when I
think about the fact that the bar has been lowered
by the people that work there, the mediocre folks that
cons that constitute a company is mediocre. How are you
kidding me? With the loot? Drives me crazy when people
say lower the bar for talent as if the talent
is not equal. That is a falsehood hood all around.
(13:48):
So what do we do to actually shift those dynamics?
Shift that mindset. That's why hiring very very senior people
who are black, Latin x Asian, LGBT, people with distability, veterans, background,
whatever it is, from the North, from the South, from whatever,
just to come in and create a different dynamic so
(14:11):
that they can start to shift how we're starting to
see an organization. So I love that quote. I actually
want to write that down and like put it on
like my sticky notes all over my computer because that
is something I have to remind myself whatever. Besides worthy,
I swear she should just have quotes and we should
make T shirts. Okay to sob to quote T shirt.
(14:31):
I'm in there. Yeah, I need these quotes on a
mug right now, on a mug of something. I want
to ask you this Libra from your experience having worked
in the d I space for as long as you
have just I want to speak to this as far
as people that may be listening to us here that
are new into this conversation in their workplaces and in
(14:54):
spaces that are just beginning this process of really thinking
about what does it look like to do the work
of diversity, equity inclusion. I think sometimes we get caught
in the idea that just sitting around the table and
talking about this or having a conversation or you know,
air quotes learning from each other is the work, and
that is not the work. The work requires other action
(15:17):
steps to actually see these companies make progress for folks
who are at sort of the conversation the possible Kumbaya moment.
What would you say, are some beginning things to do
that are actually going to take action to really make
things more equitable for folks. Yeah. Well, the first thing
is that they ever there are a lot of people
they were like, oh my god, I did this anti
(15:38):
racist training. It was so fantastic, it was super informative.
And then what I think, that's diversity. So there are steps.
One thing is that you have to understand that any
of these um these trainings or this you know, inclusion
training or like inclusive leadership, whatever it is, their behavior
(16:00):
are associated with those and those behaviors have to be
aligned with how you are evaluating every single person. And
if those behaviors are not front and center to all
the work that you are doing, you actually are just
listening to people talk about anti racism but you're not
actually doing it. It's kind of this say versus do.
(16:21):
There's a huge gap, right, and so the way to
get people to really think about this is to tie
these behaviors that whatever the inclusion model, whatever the anti
race or whatever training that you took, there were behaviors
associated with how you behave and conduct yourself in the workplace.
Those have to be consistent with how you're evaluating them
(16:44):
and evaluating, meaning if you don't do them, there are repercussions,
Like it's there has an impact on your compensation. You
don't get promoted. You don't just say, oh, well, so
and so did a great job. He's kind of a
jerk and he treated such and such and he didn't
do this to advanced diversity. But oh it's okay, let's
promote this person. We can't do that, and so that
(17:04):
is the problem I'm having with a lot of these.
We sat around, we hugged each other, I cried, you know,
I've read you know, I read you know how to
be an anti racist? And then I moved about my day.
But it's not tied to like what this means to
be a leader. Oh, by the way, this is what
our expectation is, is like, this is what it means
to be a prominent leader in this company, and we
(17:26):
expect this. And if you don't do it, then you,
you know, either don't get that bonus or a portion
of that bonus, or you don't get promoted. Whatever it is,
there has to be consequences. The second part of it is,
and it's a this is more like your people processing.
There's policies and processes that have all types of bias,
as we talked about earlier, and so we have to
(17:47):
do an overview and analysis of these policies to ensure
that there they are as equitable as possible. That's the work.
That is the work, and that's a lot hot of work,
especially if you're talking about these companies that are already established,
that are so big you can't even there's nothing you
(18:08):
can do. You just kind of inch around you inch
towards it, but it's a whole process. So it is.
It takes a lot of work, a lot of tolerance,
but it's also a lot of experience understanding the process. Libra,
thank you for giving us this wisdom, giving us some
things to think about, and giving us some things to do.
That's what we hope, folks listening, that you are able
(18:30):
to get some action steps to take in your own workplaces. Libra,
thank you for joining us, thank you for having me,
and thank you for facilitating this discussion. Really appreciate it, Libra. Yes, yes, yes,
I'm so glad Libra was able to join us and
share her wisdom and her experience with us. I want
(18:53):
you to ask yourself three questions as we reflect on
what Libra shared with us here. Question one, how can
you ensure that diversity is reflected and who gets hired
for the top roles in your workplace? Question too, how
can you make sure that diversity in your workplace also
means equitable pay and equitable promotion processes? And what are
(19:18):
the consequences for those in leadership who do not practice diversity,
equity and inclusion? And Question three, how can you do
the work of overhauling and updating policies to ensure that diversity, equity,
and inclusion actually takes place. As Libra reminded us, it
(19:38):
takes work to do these things, a lot of work,
but it is work that is worth it. So let's
do it, and let's do it together. Thanks for joining us.
What an incredible conversation. I hope you found it as
valuable as I did, so tune in next Wednesday for
another amazing makers conversation about how we can all contribute
(20:00):
to making progress in the workplace. You're listening to Seneca's
Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the
Seneca Women podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support
from founding partner PNG. Listen to Seneca's Conversations on power
and Purpose on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information on
(20:22):
Seneca Women, follow us on social media or visit our
website at Seneca Women dot com.
I'm Kim Azzarelli and you're listening to Seneca's conversations on
power and Purpose. I am so delighted to partner with
Makers on the special six part series called Keep Going.
In this series, we listen to incredible conversations from Makers
Conferences with a special focus on d e I. The
goal is to use these podcasts as a jumping off
(00:30):
point for conversations about d e I in your own organization.
I want to give a special thanks to the Maker's
conference sponsors PNG Price, Waterhouse Coopers an official wellness sponsor
Lulu Lemon. Now. We launched the Seneca Women Podcast Network
about a year ago with founding partner PNGNG and I
(00:50):
Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the voices of
women around the world. You probably know that podcasting is
a fast growing industry, with over fifty cent of podcast
audience being women. But what you may not know is
that only twenty of top podcasts are hosted by women.
We want to change that, so we are launching dozens
(01:11):
of women focused and women led podcasts. So if you
have a show where you want to collaborate on a show,
reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot
com Now, it gives me great pleasure to introduce our
guest host for the Keep Going series, Amina Brown. Amina
is a spoken word poet, author and host of the
podcast Her with Amina Brown on the Seneca Women Podcast Network. Amina,
(01:36):
thanks so much for joining us. Thanks Kim. I'm so
honored to be the guest host of this special series
and collaboration with Makers, and I'm so glad you're tuning
in with us because these conversations have been inspiring and
challenging in the best way. Today, we're listening to an
excerpt from an incredible conversation between two Shonda Brown Duckett,
(01:57):
President and CEO of t I A A and Janna Rich,
founder and CEO of Rich Talent Group. They'll be talking
about how we can create more diverse workplaces. This conversation
took place at the recent Makers conference, and I know
you're going to get something out of this conversation because
when I first listened to it, I felt so charged
(02:20):
up to continue doing the work of what it means
for the places we work to be diverse, equitable, and inclusive.
Following the conversation, I'll be joined by Libra Clemens. Libra
serves as chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion officer at Tulio
the Cloud Communications, a customer engagement platform. Libra and I
(02:40):
are going to talk about what we're hearing in this conversation,
and she will give us some practical suggestions that we
can bring back to the spaces where we work. Here's
Janna and to Shonda Tee, what would you say? You've
got a lot of companies who are genuinely committed to
increasing the opportunities for women, people of color, lgbt Q folks,
(03:02):
but they may not all know how to push that needle.
How any words of wisdom for how we create more
space for great women, people of color and LGBTQ people. Yeah,
I mean, first and foremost, we have to decide, and
you and I have had this conversation, Um, we have
to decide that talent is created equally, opportunity is not.
(03:28):
We have to decide that the way in which we
may have sourced talent, or the areas of credentializing that
we hold onto in terms of our past that did
not include women, black, women, people of color, l g
b t Q, that was out and proud and unapologetic,
then we have to say, what else do we need
(03:49):
to add into this formula so that we can make
sure that we are identifying great talent. And so I
think deciding a step one. I think step too, which
is the accountability of senior leaders, is who are your
core lieutenants. Who are the people that you are hiring,
and do they share that same conviction, that same mindset,
(04:11):
and that same level of action. Because if you do that,
when you look around your table and you say does
my table represent the culture that I embody? And if
the answer is yes, the word that will be in
your company and your organization, which is just like in
financial services, the power of compounding, and what we have
to do is have that compounding mindset that says, if
(04:34):
we get one, then we get to then we get three.
And by the way, compounding is additive. We're not taking
the seat from someone, We're creating the space for everyone
to be seen to have opportunity. So decide who are
you hiring in those real key positions that can hire
the people. This is not a diversity hr solely exercise.
(04:57):
These are the people that's your CFO, the person snose,
your CEO, the person who's running the p m L.
It's their accountability and then lastly, I would say it
is about being committed inconsistent, just like in running a big,
powerful business, it's about the overtime performance. We have to
make sure that diversity and inclusion and all of these
(05:18):
beautiful words are not the flavor of the month. It's
not an initiative. It becomes core to your how and
when we do that, we will change the phase, we
will change the outcomes, and we will change the level
of talent that enters the halls of Corporate America or
quite frankly, any industry and sector that does not have
(05:40):
the representation that you just outline, Jana. And what would
you say to women and especially women of color who
are facing barriers to their advancement, the types of microaggressions
that they have faced in the workplace, any words of
wisdom or inspiration for them? Oh? Yeah, I mean, first
and foremost, I think we have to know that we
(06:03):
are worthy and deserving of everything and be unapologetic about it.
And so when you are having those microaggressions or some
of those um slight remarks, you know where they're almost
questioning your existence, as if your gender or your complexion
(06:25):
was the only reason why you got the jobs and
they were lazy because they didn't do the research. So
you don't even need to own that narrative. But I
would say it's important to know that you are worthy
and deserving because quite frankly, the biggest hurdle that we
have to overcome many times, especially as black women, is
the mental gymnastics that we do in our head when
we see and feel these microaggressions and and just feel
(06:48):
like we can't get ahead. Secondly, know that your voice
is necessary and required and do not dim your light.
And in order to do that, and this is why
I love this conference. The power of the sister it
that's where we have to connect. We have to say,
you know what, I might be the only Black woman
in a senior role in the company, but there's my
(07:08):
white sister, or my Asian sister, or my l G
B t Q sister that we have to come together
and say, hey, I need you, I need you. And
so I think we have to create that space for
that vulnerability, that space for us to really share what's
on our minds and in our spirit so that we
can navigate these waters um collectively and together. And then lastly,
(07:29):
lastly I would say is be unapologetic of the impact
and the power that you have to make sure that
that next black girl, or that next woman or person
of color does not have to have the exact same
road that you just traveled. We have to make it
a little easier for the next person, and that is
(07:51):
why we cannot give up even when we were dealing
with the storms that we all face and will continue
to face until we see a lot more representation of
the sisterhood at every level of corporate America or just
business in general. What a great conversation between two Shanda
Brown Duckett and Janna rich Now, I'm delighted to welcome
(08:11):
Libra Clements, Chief Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Officer at Tulio. Libra,
it has touched me that this section of the conversation
we're listening to that we got to hear to Shonda
say these words specifically two women of color in the workplace,
and the two phrases that stuck out to me right
(08:32):
there is when she reminded us you are worthy and
do not dim your light. Exactly if we weren't recording,
I would bang on things just hearing that. I mean,
did you feel this way too? I did I did.
It hit me to my core because it's something that
you have to remind yourself on a regular basis when
you wake up every day, because you wake up, you
(08:54):
go to work, whatever the organization, whatever the company is,
and there was something chipping at you, chipping away at
you on a regular basis. So you have to continue
to fill yourself up and continue to think and just
remind yourself that you are worthy, that you cannot demn
your light. It's hard, it's a process. And I think
about me like fifteen years ago in the workplace, and
(09:18):
every little thing used to just break me down. I
would be like in tears at home, in a fetal position.
And as I got older, you know, you start to
figure out and you surround yourself by people and other
things too. You know, make sure that you know that
you are worthy, make sure that you are connected to
folks who are constantly filling your cup and that there
(09:41):
you know, and they're reminding you not to demn your
your light at all. But it is it's it's certainly
a process that they gets a practice. It is a
practice to remind yourself because the world is not set
up for you, especially black women. I love the fact
that you call that black women, let's just call it,
you know, and as a black woman, every day you
wake up and you're wondering what is my day going
to be like because you just don't know what you're
(10:03):
going to encounter, intentional or not. You know, I'm not
saying everyone's out to get you, but you have to
face those obstacles on a regular basis. And so I
loved it. I think that was like, it just hit
to the core. Yeah, I I feel similar to you
in this and just thinking about specifically what it has
meant for me to come up with that practice. I
(10:26):
love that you said that word, Libra, that it's a
practice of walking into these spaces and remembering your worthy,
remembering not to dim your light. I want to bring
up another quote that to Shaunda brought up here and
ask for your reflections on it. To Shaunda said, talent
is equal, opportunity is not exactly what can we do
(10:47):
in our workspaces to bring up opportunity so that opportunity
can of course, in our best, most ideal situation, that
opportunity is up there with talent. We know that we
have folks who are black folks, people of color, are
BIPOP folks, are l G B t Q plus folks,
are disabled community folks. Right, we know the talents here, right,
(11:11):
how do we bring how do we bring that opportunity
up there to to be equal to that. Well two things.
One is, and this is my strategy all the time,
you need those types of people in senior roles because
they are setting the tone and the agenda for the
rest of the organization. And part of the problems that
have with a lot of diversity programs like oh, we're
gonna hire all these people at the more the earlier
(11:33):
career level where there's not a lot of access and
power and so forth. So if you get them, and
to Sanda said this, you know, if you get your CFO,
your c O and all those people, but you hire
them and those key roles that are decision making, they
can start to shift that to start to think about
equality because then that that that like senior level, you know,
(11:56):
that c suite level, that starts to shift a bit
and you start to about the opportunities because you hope
they are creating opportunities for other people. So I say
shoot high. The second thing is um and this is
a I've been in the diversity space for a very
very long time, and the word equity is something that
you're seeing in the d e I space. Used to
(12:17):
be diversity, inclusion and belonging. Now it's like all about
equity because acknowledge that the talent is equal, the opportunities
are not. And within equity, what does that mean You're
hiring processes there have to disrupt them to ensure there's
equity around that. The same thing with how you're being
evaluatedt promotions and all of that. And if you ask
(12:40):
anybody what they want in a workplace is they want
equal treatment. They want equal access, equal opportunities to actually
make the same amount of money as everyone else, opportunities
to advance their careers or not, opportunities to actually go
on leave and come back. And so what I think
companies have to do is ensure that within their people
(13:04):
processes they are doing what they can to disrupt all
those biases to create equity. But I love that line
because part of the problem is you have this mindset
that the talent isn't equal. That you know, oh, and
it tries me crazy when people say lowering the bar amina.
(13:24):
I literally want to jump out my skin when I
think about the fact that the bar has been lowered
by the people that work there, the mediocre folks that
cons that constitute a company is mediocre. How are you
kidding me? With the loot? Drives me crazy when people
say lower the bar for talent as if the talent
is not equal. That is a falsehood hood all around.
(13:48):
So what do we do to actually shift those dynamics?
Shift that mindset. That's why hiring very very senior people
who are black, Latin x Asian, LGBT, people with distability, veterans, background,
whatever it is, from the North, from the South, from whatever,
just to come in and create a different dynamic so
(14:11):
that they can start to shift how we're starting to
see an organization. So I love that quote. I actually
want to write that down and like put it on
like my sticky notes all over my computer because that
is something I have to remind myself whatever. Besides worthy,
I swear she should just have quotes and we should
make T shirts. Okay to sob to quote T shirt.
(14:31):
I'm in there. Yeah, I need these quotes on a
mug right now, on a mug of something. I want
to ask you this Libra from your experience having worked
in the d I space for as long as you
have just I want to speak to this as far
as people that may be listening to us here that
are new into this conversation in their workplaces and in
(14:54):
spaces that are just beginning this process of really thinking
about what does it look like to do the work
of diversity, equity inclusion. I think sometimes we get caught
in the idea that just sitting around the table and
talking about this or having a conversation or you know,
air quotes learning from each other is the work, and
that is not the work. The work requires other action
(15:17):
steps to actually see these companies make progress for folks
who are at sort of the conversation the possible Kumbaya moment.
What would you say, are some beginning things to do
that are actually going to take action to really make
things more equitable for folks. Yeah. Well, the first thing
is that they ever there are a lot of people
they were like, oh my god, I did this anti
(15:38):
racist training. It was so fantastic, it was super informative.
And then what I think, that's diversity. So there are steps.
One thing is that you have to understand that any
of these um these trainings or this you know, inclusion
training or like inclusive leadership, whatever it is, their behavior
(16:00):
are associated with those and those behaviors have to be
aligned with how you are evaluating every single person. And
if those behaviors are not front and center to all
the work that you are doing, you actually are just
listening to people talk about anti racism but you're not
actually doing it. It's kind of this say versus do.
(16:21):
There's a huge gap, right, and so the way to
get people to really think about this is to tie
these behaviors that whatever the inclusion model, whatever the anti
race or whatever training that you took, there were behaviors
associated with how you behave and conduct yourself in the workplace.
Those have to be consistent with how you're evaluating them
(16:44):
and evaluating, meaning if you don't do them, there are repercussions,
Like it's there has an impact on your compensation. You
don't get promoted. You don't just say, oh, well, so
and so did a great job. He's kind of a
jerk and he treated such and such and he didn't
do this to advanced diversity. But oh it's okay, let's
promote this person. We can't do that, and so that
(17:04):
is the problem I'm having with a lot of these.
We sat around, we hugged each other, I cried, you know,
I've read you know, I read you know how to
be an anti racist? And then I moved about my day.
But it's not tied to like what this means to
be a leader. Oh, by the way, this is what
our expectation is, is like, this is what it means
to be a prominent leader in this company, and we
(17:26):
expect this. And if you don't do it, then you,
you know, either don't get that bonus or a portion
of that bonus, or you don't get promoted. Whatever it is,
there has to be consequences. The second part of it is,
and it's a this is more like your people processing.
There's policies and processes that have all types of bias,
as we talked about earlier, and so we have to
(17:47):
do an overview and analysis of these policies to ensure
that there they are as equitable as possible. That's the work.
That is the work, and that's a lot hot of work,
especially if you're talking about these companies that are already established,
that are so big you can't even there's nothing you
(18:08):
can do. You just kind of inch around you inch
towards it, but it's a whole process. So it is.
It takes a lot of work, a lot of tolerance,
but it's also a lot of experience understanding the process. Libra,
thank you for giving us this wisdom, giving us some
things to think about, and giving us some things to do.
That's what we hope, folks listening, that you are able
(18:30):
to get some action steps to take in your own workplaces. Libra,
thank you for joining us, thank you for having me,
and thank you for facilitating this discussion. Really appreciate it, Libra. Yes, yes, yes,
I'm so glad Libra was able to join us and
share her wisdom and her experience with us. I want
(18:53):
you to ask yourself three questions as we reflect on
what Libra shared with us here. Question one, how can
you ensure that diversity is reflected and who gets hired
for the top roles in your workplace? Question too, how
can you make sure that diversity in your workplace also
means equitable pay and equitable promotion processes? And what are
(19:18):
the consequences for those in leadership who do not practice diversity,
equity and inclusion? And Question three, how can you do
the work of overhauling and updating policies to ensure that diversity, equity,
and inclusion actually takes place. As Libra reminded us, it
(19:38):
takes work to do these things, a lot of work,
but it is work that is worth it. So let's
do it, and let's do it together. Thanks for joining us.
What an incredible conversation. I hope you found it as
valuable as I did, so tune in next Wednesday for
another amazing makers conversation about how we can all contribute
(20:00):
to making progress in the workplace. You're listening to Seneca's
Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the
Seneca Women podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support
from founding partner PNG. Listen to Seneca's Conversations on power
and Purpose on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information on
(20:22):
Seneca Women, follow us on social media or visit our
website at Seneca Women dot com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.