SPECIAL EDITION: CORONAVIRUS: Dr. Laura Kasper on the Relationship Stress Test

Psychologist Laura Kasper tells how to defuse tense personal situations, change the emotional energy in close quarters and even how to come out of this all with a tighter bond with your partner.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hi, This is Malan Vervier and this is Kim Azarelli.
We are co authors of the book Fast Forward, How
Women Can Achieve Power and Purpose. And you're listening to
Seneca Women Conversations on Power and Purpose, brought to you
by the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.
Welcome to the special edition. During these difficult times, we're

(00:37):
talking to experts who can help us gain perspective on
the impact of the coronavirus, as well as share tips,
resources and some much needed inspiration. Today I'm joined by
Dr Laura Casper. Dr Casper is a San Francisco based
psychologist and an ad John clinical faculty member at Stanford
Medical School. Welcome to the show. Thank you well. Um,

(00:58):
you know it's an unusual time, but we are very
grutiful for what you do. Um as a psychologist, and uh,
you know, we have kind of a new living arrangements
pretty much knew everything for a lot of people. So
due to the coronavirus, obviously people are spending more time
at home with their families more than ever and so, uh,
this probably could be a tough time for intimate relationships.

(01:20):
Are you Are you finding them? Oh? Absolutely? I mean
what I'm seeing is you know, twenty four seven time
at home with our partners is basically putting a magnifying
glass on our differences and how we cope, you know,
how we cope with fear, uncertainty, and feeling out of
control in general and specifically the threat to safety and help.

(01:40):
I was gonna say it puts a magnifying glass on
our own our own weak points as well. Absolutely. I
mean what I was gonna say too, is, you know,
it's highlighting the ways that we've been meeting our needs
outside our relationships, you know, in good ways like going
to the gym and meeting our friends and our acting,
my colleagues and all those things that are good ways
of meeting our needs and importance. But it's also showing

(02:02):
the ways that that maybe we've been avoiding dealing with
tension in our relationships by sort of going outside sometimes.
So so those tensions are more present right now I
think then than before. And how are you finding people
are coping with that kind of new reality. Um, you know,
they're coping in a lot of different ways. Um. I mean,
it's generating a lot more tension than I've ever seen before. Um.

(02:25):
I mean, I think people are. You know, I think
people are being creative there. They're they're realizing that they're
not seeing their friends or they're not seeing their colleagues
to work, so they're trying to schedule a little bit
more kind of talk time with a friend or you know,
let's have a let's have a happy hour, you know
where we all get on video. I mean, I can
see there's ways that people are really coping creatively, and

(02:47):
and in physical environments where I mean some people have
the luxury of having bigger spaces, but some people have
pretty small spaces. How do you create space? Um, when
you're living in a time space, how do you create
that mental space? Yeah? You know, I mean I think
that Um. I think that's the biggest thing that I've
been helping people with is is this is the time

(03:08):
to develop our relationships with ourselves, you know. And and
so fear and resentment right now are kind of a gift,
and it's a gift to help each of us pay
attention to what are we feeling and what are we
needing for ourselves? You know, and so so to ask ourselves,
you know, do do I need to take a walk?

(03:30):
Do I need to do I need to just if
there's no other room, do I need to go to
the bathroom and just have a moment by myself. But
just actually creating some of those um physical barriers, telling
your partner, you know that you need a little time,
like hey, I'm going to go lie down the bed
and I'm just going to take a little break, or
I need to you know, go read read or write

(03:53):
in my journal or do something, you know, like using
using sitting in the car. I mean, that's actually been
I've had a lot of clients sort have had therapy
sessions in the car. Asking your partner to put on
noise canceling headphones and listen to something, you know, even
if they're in another room. To create kind of privacy
has also been something I've creative I've seen people do
both with therapy sessions but also with with meetings, you know,

(04:16):
I mean what people are realizing, like how often their
partners are on meetings, and just even having somebody talking
in the space at the same time as you can
be um can be agitating, you know, just kind of
keep their nervous system a little more activated, right, and
then you add kids to the mix, and that people
are homeschooling, and that's a whole new dynamic. And apparently

(04:36):
homeschooling is pretty hard, so people have a profound new
appreciation for teachers. Absolutely. Absolutely, Yeah, the depth of empathy
that my clients who have children have is been profound.
That's an interesting point because you were saying that it's
really important to sort of get to know yourself a
little better and start this new relationship with yourself and
kind of understand what you need. And I guess it's
also probably a great time to try to have a

(04:58):
little empathy for your partner and put yourself in their
shoes and see, you know, see what's going on with
them as well. Oh absolutely, I mean, you know, when
when intension is coming up, you know, if if we
stay in our sort of you know, I'm right, your
wrong positions, you know, that's just going to to make
a fight worse or just keep it going versus you know,
actually taking this as an opportunity to learn something about

(05:20):
your partner, genuinely listen to how they're feeling and what
their concerns are, you know, and treat them with respect
in that conversation. Just really upping the empathy game right now.
I mean that's going to turn differences into into a blessing.
Right now, do you have any kinds tips or tricks
for how to diffuse a situation when it's starting to escalate,
because I know there's there's that easy opportunity when everyone's

(05:42):
under so much stress. Oh absolutely, I mean I think,
you know, I think when escalation happens, the best thing
and we need time outs just as much as kids do,
you know. I mean I think sometimes we don't like
to admit that, but it's true. You know, it's true,
you know, And so I think the best way to
get to be a really just name it and just agree,

(06:02):
like let's just take a break. Let's just you know,
give ourselves tenorfit humans or come back with tomorrow. I mean,
that's the that is the single best way to de
escalate any kind of situation. I Mean, one thing that
I've heard coupled to heard people to is is also
just like let's turn onto music and just shake this out,
Like just just change the mindset, right, just like have

(06:24):
fun in this moment and maybe they come back to
the conflict at that moment or maybe they don't, but
just kind of change the energy is really important. So
you wrote a really interesting piece for The Bold italic
Um that gives some relationships tips when dealing with COVID nineteen,
and one of your tips is to have some fun,
which I think what you're alluding to, how can you
build that into your kind of schedule? And do you
recommend schedules? I do recommend schedules. Yeah, I mean I

(06:47):
think that I think that we you know, even taking
from some of the kind of depression and anxiety literature,
I mean, you know, we all do better with the schedule,
and we at we see this in kids, right, I mean,
kids do better with stressful and so when we are
under a great amount of stress, we needed to so
so I absolutely think that schedules are important. I mean,

(07:08):
I think what building in fun and building in play,
It's an attitude, right, It's it's sort of a it's
a choice to say we're going to make this incredibly stressful,
fearful time that that has a lot of it's having
a lot of negative consequences globally, nationally and you know
even in some of our friends and families, but like

(07:30):
in the in the moments in life, taking the attitude
of trying to bring some lightness or play in where
we can, you know, is what we is what we
have control over. Um. But but you know, but I don't.
I also don't want to minimize that that for some people,
the idea of trying to bring fun when it's got
to loved one who's in the hospital or something, you know,

(07:51):
something that's actually really roster job stressed out about their job. Like,
it's not easy to do. It's not easy to do.
I mean, you're kind of getting the heart of it,
which is that these are really uncertain, unusual and very
very hard times for most people or from people, I
should say, And so how do you deal, I mean
with that level of stress, not just with your partners?

(08:13):
But is there is there something that you're recommending in
terms of stress management? Yeah, you know, I think the
biggest thing that I'm trying to remember right now is
that I'm trying to encourage my clients to remember, is
that we are all scared and feeling out of control.
And that's that is generally everyone's big fine right now.

(08:34):
And that kind of fear and powerlessness can easily translate
into getting controlling, or feeling frustrated or feeling tentioning all
this sort of really negative card stuff, both with ourselves
and with others, and so you know, the antidote right
now is just compassion, you know, compassion for ourselves, remembering

(08:55):
that we're scared, we're feeling out of control. And you
know when we look at our earners, do we look
at our kids or colleagues, just remembering that, you know,
kind of seeing it through their eyes, the same thing
they you're feeling like, we're all feeling that and trying
to remember that together. I think that's kind of the
best medicine right now. That's wonderful. And I think that's

(09:16):
so much in line with what you know we feel
at Seneca, which is that if we could, even if
we could do something, one little small thing for someone, um,
that actually can change dimensionally the way you're feeling and
the way you're looking at the world. And so it's
so hard to to get out of what's going on
right now. But I think what you're saying is so
important that compassion and kindness towards yourself, towards others, towards
the community. I think I heard a really great example

(09:38):
of someone who just all little things that people can do.
For example, someone was ordering take out for people who
didn't necessarily have enough to you know, enough to eat
really because so many people are struggling right now, and
to support the local restaurant and to support people. I mean,
there's just so many ways that you can help a
neighbor or help somebody, to help yourself. Really, that's right,
that's right. Yeah, we can feel good. They feel good

(10:01):
when we're expressing compassion. And whether that's just expressing compassion
emotionally or just you know, holding somebody with compassion versus
maybe keeping a compassion in action, you know, it all,
it all seeds the compassion. Well, we'll be back after
this break. So if you make it through this with

(10:30):
your partner, do you feel like you'll be well on
your way for the for the next chapter. Yeah, I
mean I think we all will, right, I mean, I
think I think it's really an opportunity to up level
ourselves and our relationships that way. You know, it's it's
it's times a great stress that we've learned kind of
who we are and what we're made of and and

(10:51):
what the If we can kind of grow from the challenges,
then hopefully we're all stronger. Yeah. So true. I heard
someone early on say, which I thought was kind of funny,
but it actually resonated with me. They said, listen, this
is either going to be Corona divorce or Corona romance.
We're going to have to decide it's going to be.
Maybe being intentional helps. Have you found people kind of
trying to work at their relationships every day and make

(11:13):
that a priority? Um, are you recommending that as well? Yeah?
You know, I definitely am. I mean, you know, um,
there's time at home without the distractions of of work
and you know, or leaving. I should say there's they're
still work at home, but kind of leaving and traveling
and all these things like being together. It is an

(11:35):
opportunity to you know, work on both our relationships to
ourselves and our partners. I think it's a huge opportunity. Um. Yeah,
I think it's a huge opportunity. So I am seeing couples.
I mean, I think I think we're also hearing a
little bit of the you know, people are also feeling
pressure to kind of personal growth and optimize personal growth

(11:58):
while we've got all this time and and so I'm
definitely not encouraging people to sort of push themselves too much.
You know, It's like what's what's available, what's possible. It's
an opportunity that feels right. Take it if it doesn't,
you know, don't don't work too hard. We're under a
lot of stress right now, so you know, doing what
works and not what's not with too much such good advice. Well,

(12:21):
it's wonderful to talk to you. So what what makes
you optimistic in this moment? I think it's related that
what we're talking about, you know. I think that we
live in a culture that encourages us to look outside
our self or validation is to film it, you know,
the next promotion, the next Instagram, the case and posts
which leads a lot of people to my office door,
you know. And and while there's so much fear and

(12:43):
warrior and vulnerability that we're all facing right now, I'm
optimistic because of the slowing down, because of the removal
removal of distractions wean it's giving us the gift of
time and mental space to to work on these relationships
and and from my perspective, the space to improve the
one relationship that's actually the key to mental health, which

(13:03):
is the one with ourselves. Kind of re evaluate what
you value, what you're doing, and how you're living your life. Yeah, yeah,
how you're being well. Thank you so much. It is
so great to have you on the show. We appreciate
everything you're doing to help couples get through this difficult period. Um.
Is there a way listeners could learn more about your work? Absolutely? Yeah.
You can find me online at www dot Dr Laura

(13:27):
Casker therapy as dot com. Fantastic. We hope to have
you on the show again, and we hope you are
staying well and staying safe. Thank you very much, Thank
you so much too. You're listening to Seneca Women Conversations
on Power and Purpose, brought to you by the Seneca
Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from

(13:50):
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(14:12):
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a great day.