September 29, 2022 • 19 mins
An award-winning professor of astronomy and physics at UC Irvine with a long and colorful career, Trimble is also co-editor of The Sky Is for Everyone, a collection of autobiographies of trailblazing women astronomers from around the world.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
I was very lucky the period barrier fell just ahead
of me. Other women had put them down, women like
Margaret Bourbage and very Reuben. By the time I applied
to Caltech, I wanted the first woman. There were fourteen
women on the entire camp, and when I came, that
was Virginia Tremble, an award winning astronomer, talking about the
(00:26):
nineteen sixties when she was one of the rare women
studying the stars at an American university. I'm Alan Ververe
and this is Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. We
are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring
and history making women you need to hear. A professor
of physics and astronomy at U c Irvine, doctor Tremble
(00:50):
is the author of over nine hundred papers. She specializes
in the structure an evolution of stars, as well as
the history of signs. Her career has taken many colorful turns.
In nineteen sixty two, is an undergrad at U c
l A. She was featured in a Life magazine article
(01:10):
that led to her being selected as Miss Twilight Zone.
For that job, she toured the United States to promote
the TV series. Now she is the co editor of
a new book called The Sky Is for Everyone. It's
filled with the autobiographies of amazing women astronomers. Listen and
(01:31):
learn why Virginia Tremble is one of Seneca's One Women
to Hear. I'm speaking today with Virginia Tremble, the greate astronomer. Welcome, Virginia.
We're so looking forward to this conversation today. Well, thank
you so much for meating it. Well, you're a groundbreaker
(01:53):
by any definition. You've had a career that spans more
than fifty years as an award winning astronomer. Physics Today
described you as a renegade scientist. Does that make sense?
Is that an app description for you? Or how would
you describe yourself? Well, I took the liberty of looking
up renegade in the dictionary, and I decided I'm not
(02:14):
to renegade anything. I'm still all the things that I've
been for a very long time. I'm a woman, I'm
a I'm an astronomer. I'm a native California, very fond
of my native state, and a native born American rather
proud of my country. I'm not renegade anything. Well, in
nineteen sixty two, when you were in undergrad studying astrophysics
(02:36):
at U c L. A Life magazine ran an article
at photos about you. They seemed incredulous that you had
a brain because the title of the article was behind
a lovely face A hundred and eighty I Q. I
don't think a magazine could do that today. But what
did you think about it back then? Well, my mother
(02:59):
was very please and I was very pleased. The photographer
was the wonderful Bill Ray who died not very long ago.
The reporter who probably didn't get to use her own words,
with a woman whose name I confess I've forgotten, but
they thought me around for a couple of days. It
was a wonderful experience, and it led in turn to
my being picked to be Miss Twilight jone the next year,
(03:19):
and that also was a wonderful experience. Very interesting. So
let's go back. What was school like for you, both
as an undergrad and a PhD candidate? I know at
that time there were many programs, I'm sure, and even
observatories that wouldn't accept women. So can you tell us
about what it was like. I was very lucky that
(03:40):
serious barriers fell just ahead of me. Other women had
pushed them down, women like Margaret Bourbage and very Reuben.
By the time I applied to cal Tech, I wasn't
the first woman. They were fourteen women on the entire
campus when I came. When I applied for a Woodward
Wilson fellowship, they'd had other women. When I applied for
(04:01):
observing time at Palomar for my thesis, I was not
the first woman to be granted observing time in my
own right. That had been Very Reuben. So the barriers
just fell ahead of me. Diddo for a NATO post
doc when I completed my PhD. But there were still
so few women, even even though some of the barriers
have fallen. For sure, that is true. Statistically, um, maybe
(04:22):
not very many. When many women wanted to be physicists
or astronomers, That still, to a certain extent is true. Well,
those fortune women you mentioned on campus, were they astronomy majors?
Were they all signed? No? No, No, These were the
graduate students. There were no undergraduate women at Caltech until
ninety two. I think these were graduate students or post docs.
(04:43):
And one very distinguished physicist, mathematician Olgatowski Tod who at
the time did not have a proper faculty position, but
she was one of the really great mathematicians of her generation.
It was her husband who had the faculty position. But
I did get to meet Algatowski Todd, just very briefly. Well,
what was your time at Palamar Observatory, Lie, And that's
(05:04):
an extraordinary place. It rained a lot I didn't have.
I did not have particularly good luck as an observer, partly,
maybe entirely because the object I was studying the remnant
of the ten fifty four supernova, the crab Nebula is
on the meridiant midnight on the tenth of December, so
it's something you observe late October to early February. And
(05:27):
I had several observing runs. One was rained out completely,
one was partly rained out. I got some data, a
little bit of it got used in my thesis, but
not very much. It just it wasn't a successful time
place to be trying to observe the crab nebula. I
had several wonderful experiences there. I I was the observer
(05:49):
on the forty eight in Schmidt telescope when chip Arp
was the two observer, and he was rained out too,
of course, and we spent an evening over the fireplace
in the monastery, just talking about things astronomy mostly, but
life in general. He was a prize winning fencer. Interesting
I also had in those days. I'm crippled, David. In
(06:09):
those days, I was an enthusiastic swimmer and dancer in
various other athletic activity. Well, it sounds like it was
a rewarding conversation at any rate. Yeah, I tried to
advise him. Can you imaginating in a stupid of a
graduate student, a woman graduate student, trying to advise the
senior astronomer. He did not take my advice, and I
think it would have been better off he had he had,
(06:30):
But he persisted in the conversation with you, So that's
us something. Well, there wasn't much else to do, you know.
Eventually my piece of advisor drove up in the middle
of the rain, in the middle of the night to
bring me home. He didn't like the idea of my
spending the night with your part. Oh my, Well, I
know that you've co edited a wonderful new book called
The Skies for Everyone, and in that there are thirty
(06:53):
seven women astronomers who write their autobiographies. Can you tell
us about the book? Did you feel it was necessary
or what did you want to achieve by working on it.
It wasn't my idea. The idea came from co editor
David weyin Trout and Princeton University Press, and they decided
that under the circumstances they should have a female co editor.
(07:16):
I ended up first alphabetically, if nothing else. Truthfully, David
did most of the heavy listing, but I did add
to the list. He had maybe half maybe a dozen
women who'd agreed to contribute. I added a fair number
of women from other countries, from a few other ethnicities.
We were moderately successful, but um, I thought it would
(07:37):
be fun to do. And of course, as I'm sure
you know, women are conditioned to say yes when they're
have to do something. Sorry, I asked to do this,
I said yes, and it was very interesting to do.
We stole the idea for the book title from one
of the women who wrote a chapter near the end,
one of the South African women, the wonderful title, Yes
it is. We thought of some other things that that
(07:57):
that was the winner. Well, it must have been quite
an effort to contact all of those women in various
countries and then translate their work. No translation required. That
a successful scientist these days is simply of necessity fluent
in English, at least fluent in technical English. Sometimes the
everyday vocabulary is less successful. You should have heard me
(08:20):
a few years ago trying to explain what the concubine
was that someone who whose first language was not English. Well,
translation may not have been necessary, but did the technical
vocabulary have to be edited? Some? Not very much, We
explained to the women. I'm one of the authors, of course,
because I wrote a trial chapter just to see how
difficult it was. It took an afternoon, but I write
(08:42):
a lot on a typewriter, I will confess anyway. We
told the women who'd agreed to help out that the
audience was people who were interested in the world but
are not going to be or not our professional scientists.
We would hope to reach adolescents who might be thinking
about what to do with their lives, to persuade them
that science is a neat thing for a gal to do,
(09:05):
and they responded very very well. We asked a few
people to add definitions or translations. We compiled, or perhaps
David compiled, a long list of the algorithms and the
young acronyms that were used so that people would know
what a L S or whatever stood for. We were
any of these women your mentors or personal heroes, or
(09:26):
you've got the wrong generation. I'm the third oldest person
in the book. We actually lost one author between the
book appearing and now. Judith Piper, who was a pioneer
of infrared instrumentation, died fairly recently. We were we kept
our fingers crossed for the health of all our all
of our contributors. Of course, I mean the very first
(09:46):
astronomy professor I ever had was a woman. Her name
was Wooster Makemson, Maude Wooster Makinson. He taught at U
c l A when I was an undergraduate there. He
taught at one of the women's colleges a long time ago.
And so if you're a Reuben who now has a
telescope name for her had her first astronomy class from
(10:07):
Maude Wooster Mahampson as well. That we didn't actually discover
that until after Maud died. But my very first astronomy
professor was a woman, So it never occurred to me
that it was odd. That's whatever you get used to
I guess that is profoundly true. My father was a chemist,
so I was used to scientists. But I would imagine
if this crowd was much younger than you, that many
(10:30):
of them had you as their personal heroine heroin. I
very much doubt I'm not that type, but several of
them doing their chapters mentioned that at least they've heard
of me when I asked that to help out, which
is very died with them. I think you're just modest modesty.
Modesty's not one of my major vices. Well, you've also
been a professor. You taught since ninete that's quite a
(10:55):
long time. Yes, half of it wasent if you under
Steve Maryland, My husband was a very distinguished physicist dead
now for twenty two years, UM, who was a tenured
professor at the University of Maryland. When we got married
and our department chairs worked out January could Julie both
be at u C I July to December, we will
both be at Maryland each year. This worked very well, actually,
(11:18):
with a good solution to the two career problems which
nobody else has ever adopted. But I still listen. I
still recommend that, Um, if you have a spouse, you're
very fond of. And you have a job you're very
fond of, and your spouse has a job he or
he or they is are very fond of. Then work
it out with your department chairs to share out so
(11:39):
you both keep your jobs and your spouses and so forth. Actually,
it sounds like a very modern arrangement. More power to you. Well,
it wasn't modern. It's happened in the nineteen two. No,
I was happening. That's why I mentioned it. It seems
like something that you know, one would strive to have
work today. It's good that you made it work. You
(12:00):
have to ask, and statistically women don't ask. It shows
up in promotion records and all kinds of things. Senecas
one hundred Women to Hear will be back after this
short break. Give us a sense of how the field
(12:27):
of astronomy and the students have changed. I mean, you've
had an extraordinary lifespan in the field. Would you call
it welcoming for women? I don't know the answer to that,
because I haven't applied for a job for a long time. Statistically,
they are undoubtedly more women, and they have more positions
of power and authority. The press release yesterday or today
(12:48):
about the guys that NASA has said they hit the
asteroid to change its orbit. There were I think six
or seven people quoted, and five or six of them
were women with some position of authority, either in NATHA
or a related institution. So unquestionably more women, more women
with power. Yeah, and so many women astronauts these days,
(13:10):
which wasn't the case not that long ago. Well, Sally
Ride was actually a good friend because he left NATHA
and came to youth the San Diego where he headed
up an institute, and I was on their committee. To
Sally Ride, who died very young. I'm sorry, with a
good friend, the first American woman in space. Yes, yes,
if you don't count the squirrel the squirrel monkey. Well,
(13:34):
we had Seneca women off and talk about the need
to have a you know, women's perspective in all fields.
Do you feel it's important in astronomy? And if you do,
why I'm not totally persuaded that there is a woman's
perspective in reading chapters besides the one I wrote I was.
I know, it's distressed to find not very many of
(13:57):
them had really had fun all the time in the
way I it. I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed being a
reasonably attractive woman in a field with lots of nice guys,
and do I had to have a different perspective. Let
me quote a colleague who staying my preps I couldn't mention,
who claimed that when I joined a conversation, I always
(14:18):
lowered the tone. Well, we've talked about a number of experiences.
I wonder if there are there's something someone experience or
two that just stand out in your life that you'd
like to talk about or mention. Well, I was very
pleased when I got the letter of acceptance at cal Tech.
That actually begins my chapter. Most of the women who
(14:39):
wrote chapter started with being born. I'm born in the
middle of my chaptor. Well, that's a proper obituary, right,
You say first why the person is important, and then
you have them be born later. New York Times always
does that anyways, Um, the letter accepting me at cal
Tech was a great pleasure, getting my first ollership with
(15:00):
a great pleasure. Mary and Joe wherever with enormous fund.
He asked me, when we've known each other just a
few days, and we married when we've known each other
eleven days. In the County Courthouse in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Then three months later we married again in the local synagogue.
But Mary and Koe was great fun. And I'm glad,
he asked me. I'm glad I had been enough to say, yes, Well,
(15:22):
those are wonderful highlights, and I can imagine stay with you,
and we'll always stay with you. And you know, as
an astronomer, you've had such a unique perspective on the world.
Most of us don't have that perspective obviously, And I wonder,
given what's happening today, whether in politics or climate change, whatever,
(15:43):
these are times that can get somebody down. How do
you stay optimistic? You sound like a very upbeat human being,
and I wonder what gives you hope. I don't read
the new paper three often. You know that that actually acted,
That is true. I read the l A Times at
breakfast in New York Times over supper. Um. I guess
(16:04):
I'm hard to discourage. It's true physically that I have
a very high pain threshold. I think it's also true
psychologically that I have a very high pain threshold. I
don't discourage easily. I think the world is going through
the dogs that I should take barking lessons. But people
have been saying the world was going to the dogs
at least since the time of Plato. Were there about
(16:26):
um Fred Hoyle used to say that, yes, science may
not save science from crumbling. Our technological civilization may well die,
and he thought it would happen in his lifetime, which
is now some years ago. But the human races is
physically very tough, and the human race will surely survive.
(16:50):
Even if we blowed ourselves to smithereens or try to
drown in our own garbage. The human race will survive.
It will include none of my descendants. I made my
most important in the contribution to a small carbon footprint
by not having children. A lot to reflect on what
you just said, Virginia, and we thank you so much
for joining us today in this podcast and for the
(17:12):
scintillating conversation. Virginia Tremble, thank you so much, well, thank you,
and farewell to everybody. I'm going to be thank fair
well too. How fascinating to look at our universe through
the eyes of Virginia Tremble. There are three things I
took from that conversation. First, it's important to recognize the
(17:37):
change does happen today. There are more and more women
in the sciences. As Dr Tremble points out, media coverage
of NASA's recent asteroid mission quoted numerous women tied to
the program, some of them in positions of great authority. Second,
Dr Tremble shows us the importance of role models for girls.
(18:01):
Her new book, The Sky Is for Everyone showcases the
autobiographies of thirty seven women astronomers. It's meant, she says,
to reach out of lescence and persuade them that science
is a neat thing for a girl to do. Finally,
as a scientist, Virginia Tremble gives us hope for the future,
(18:24):
as she says things may look difficult right now, but
people have been predicting the end of the world since
Plato's time. The human race, she reminds us, is physically
very tough. Tune in next time to hear about our
next featured woman and discover why she's one of Seneca's
(18:47):
Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women To Hear is
a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I
Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG Have a
Great Day. It number
I was very lucky the period barrier fell just ahead
of me. Other women had put them down, women like
Margaret Bourbage and very Reuben. By the time I applied
to Caltech, I wanted the first woman. There were fourteen
women on the entire camp, and when I came, that
was Virginia Tremble, an award winning astronomer, talking about the
(00:26):
nineteen sixties when she was one of the rare women
studying the stars at an American university. I'm Alan Ververe
and this is Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. We
are bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring
and history making women you need to hear. A professor
of physics and astronomy at U c Irvine, doctor Tremble
(00:50):
is the author of over nine hundred papers. She specializes
in the structure an evolution of stars, as well as
the history of signs. Her career has taken many colorful turns.
In nineteen sixty two, is an undergrad at U c
l A. She was featured in a Life magazine article
(01:10):
that led to her being selected as Miss Twilight Zone.
For that job, she toured the United States to promote
the TV series. Now she is the co editor of
a new book called The Sky Is for Everyone. It's
filled with the autobiographies of amazing women astronomers. Listen and
(01:31):
learn why Virginia Tremble is one of Seneca's One Women
to Hear. I'm speaking today with Virginia Tremble, the greate astronomer. Welcome, Virginia.
We're so looking forward to this conversation today. Well, thank
you so much for meating it. Well, you're a groundbreaker
(01:53):
by any definition. You've had a career that spans more
than fifty years as an award winning astronomer. Physics Today
described you as a renegade scientist. Does that make sense?
Is that an app description for you? Or how would
you describe yourself? Well, I took the liberty of looking
up renegade in the dictionary, and I decided I'm not
(02:14):
to renegade anything. I'm still all the things that I've
been for a very long time. I'm a woman, I'm
a I'm an astronomer. I'm a native California, very fond
of my native state, and a native born American rather
proud of my country. I'm not renegade anything. Well, in
nineteen sixty two, when you were in undergrad studying astrophysics
(02:36):
at U c L. A Life magazine ran an article
at photos about you. They seemed incredulous that you had
a brain because the title of the article was behind
a lovely face A hundred and eighty I Q. I
don't think a magazine could do that today. But what
did you think about it back then? Well, my mother
(02:59):
was very please and I was very pleased. The photographer
was the wonderful Bill Ray who died not very long ago.
The reporter who probably didn't get to use her own words,
with a woman whose name I confess I've forgotten, but
they thought me around for a couple of days. It
was a wonderful experience, and it led in turn to
my being picked to be Miss Twilight jone the next year,
(03:19):
and that also was a wonderful experience. Very interesting. So
let's go back. What was school like for you, both
as an undergrad and a PhD candidate? I know at
that time there were many programs, I'm sure, and even
observatories that wouldn't accept women. So can you tell us
about what it was like. I was very lucky that
(03:40):
serious barriers fell just ahead of me. Other women had
pushed them down, women like Margaret Bourbage and very Reuben.
By the time I applied to cal Tech, I wasn't
the first woman. They were fourteen women on the entire
campus when I came. When I applied for a Woodward
Wilson fellowship, they'd had other women. When I applied for
(04:01):
observing time at Palomar for my thesis, I was not
the first woman to be granted observing time in my
own right. That had been Very Reuben. So the barriers
just fell ahead of me. Diddo for a NATO post
doc when I completed my PhD. But there were still
so few women, even even though some of the barriers
have fallen. For sure, that is true. Statistically, um, maybe
(04:22):
not very many. When many women wanted to be physicists
or astronomers, That still, to a certain extent is true. Well,
those fortune women you mentioned on campus, were they astronomy majors?
Were they all signed? No? No, No, These were the
graduate students. There were no undergraduate women at Caltech until
ninety two. I think these were graduate students or post docs.
(04:43):
And one very distinguished physicist, mathematician Olgatowski Tod who at
the time did not have a proper faculty position, but
she was one of the really great mathematicians of her generation.
It was her husband who had the faculty position. But
I did get to meet Algatowski Todd, just very briefly. Well,
what was your time at Palamar Observatory, Lie, And that's
(05:04):
an extraordinary place. It rained a lot I didn't have.
I did not have particularly good luck as an observer, partly,
maybe entirely because the object I was studying the remnant
of the ten fifty four supernova, the crab Nebula is
on the meridiant midnight on the tenth of December, so
it's something you observe late October to early February. And
(05:27):
I had several observing runs. One was rained out completely,
one was partly rained out. I got some data, a
little bit of it got used in my thesis, but
not very much. It just it wasn't a successful time
place to be trying to observe the crab nebula. I
had several wonderful experiences there. I I was the observer
(05:49):
on the forty eight in Schmidt telescope when chip Arp
was the two observer, and he was rained out too,
of course, and we spent an evening over the fireplace
in the monastery, just talking about things astronomy mostly, but
life in general. He was a prize winning fencer. Interesting
I also had in those days. I'm crippled, David. In
(06:09):
those days, I was an enthusiastic swimmer and dancer in
various other athletic activity. Well, it sounds like it was
a rewarding conversation at any rate. Yeah, I tried to
advise him. Can you imaginating in a stupid of a
graduate student, a woman graduate student, trying to advise the
senior astronomer. He did not take my advice, and I
think it would have been better off he had he had,
(06:30):
But he persisted in the conversation with you, So that's
us something. Well, there wasn't much else to do, you know.
Eventually my piece of advisor drove up in the middle
of the rain, in the middle of the night to
bring me home. He didn't like the idea of my
spending the night with your part. Oh my, Well, I
know that you've co edited a wonderful new book called
The Skies for Everyone, and in that there are thirty
(06:53):
seven women astronomers who write their autobiographies. Can you tell
us about the book? Did you feel it was necessary
or what did you want to achieve by working on it.
It wasn't my idea. The idea came from co editor
David weyin Trout and Princeton University Press, and they decided
that under the circumstances they should have a female co editor.
(07:16):
I ended up first alphabetically, if nothing else. Truthfully, David
did most of the heavy listing, but I did add
to the list. He had maybe half maybe a dozen
women who'd agreed to contribute. I added a fair number
of women from other countries, from a few other ethnicities.
We were moderately successful, but um, I thought it would
(07:37):
be fun to do. And of course, as I'm sure
you know, women are conditioned to say yes when they're
have to do something. Sorry, I asked to do this,
I said yes, and it was very interesting to do.
We stole the idea for the book title from one
of the women who wrote a chapter near the end,
one of the South African women, the wonderful title, Yes
it is. We thought of some other things that that
(07:57):
that was the winner. Well, it must have been quite
an effort to contact all of those women in various
countries and then translate their work. No translation required. That
a successful scientist these days is simply of necessity fluent
in English, at least fluent in technical English. Sometimes the
everyday vocabulary is less successful. You should have heard me
(08:20):
a few years ago trying to explain what the concubine
was that someone who whose first language was not English. Well,
translation may not have been necessary, but did the technical
vocabulary have to be edited? Some? Not very much, We
explained to the women. I'm one of the authors, of course,
because I wrote a trial chapter just to see how
difficult it was. It took an afternoon, but I write
(08:42):
a lot on a typewriter, I will confess anyway. We
told the women who'd agreed to help out that the
audience was people who were interested in the world but
are not going to be or not our professional scientists.
We would hope to reach adolescents who might be thinking
about what to do with their lives, to persuade them
that science is a neat thing for a gal to do,
(09:05):
and they responded very very well. We asked a few
people to add definitions or translations. We compiled, or perhaps
David compiled, a long list of the algorithms and the
young acronyms that were used so that people would know
what a L S or whatever stood for. We were
any of these women your mentors or personal heroes, or
(09:26):
you've got the wrong generation. I'm the third oldest person
in the book. We actually lost one author between the
book appearing and now. Judith Piper, who was a pioneer
of infrared instrumentation, died fairly recently. We were we kept
our fingers crossed for the health of all our all
of our contributors. Of course, I mean the very first
(09:46):
astronomy professor I ever had was a woman. Her name
was Wooster Makemson, Maude Wooster Makinson. He taught at U
c l A when I was an undergraduate there. He
taught at one of the women's colleges a long time ago.
And so if you're a Reuben who now has a
telescope name for her had her first astronomy class from
(10:07):
Maude Wooster Mahampson as well. That we didn't actually discover
that until after Maud died. But my very first astronomy
professor was a woman, So it never occurred to me
that it was odd. That's whatever you get used to
I guess that is profoundly true. My father was a chemist,
so I was used to scientists. But I would imagine
if this crowd was much younger than you, that many
(10:30):
of them had you as their personal heroine heroin. I
very much doubt I'm not that type, but several of
them doing their chapters mentioned that at least they've heard
of me when I asked that to help out, which
is very died with them. I think you're just modest modesty.
Modesty's not one of my major vices. Well, you've also
been a professor. You taught since ninete that's quite a
(10:55):
long time. Yes, half of it wasent if you under
Steve Maryland, My husband was a very distinguished physicist dead
now for twenty two years, UM, who was a tenured
professor at the University of Maryland. When we got married
and our department chairs worked out January could Julie both
be at u C I July to December, we will
both be at Maryland each year. This worked very well, actually,
(11:18):
with a good solution to the two career problems which
nobody else has ever adopted. But I still listen. I
still recommend that, Um, if you have a spouse, you're
very fond of. And you have a job you're very
fond of, and your spouse has a job he or
he or they is are very fond of. Then work
it out with your department chairs to share out so
(11:39):
you both keep your jobs and your spouses and so forth. Actually,
it sounds like a very modern arrangement. More power to you. Well,
it wasn't modern. It's happened in the nineteen two. No,
I was happening. That's why I mentioned it. It seems
like something that you know, one would strive to have
work today. It's good that you made it work. You
(12:00):
have to ask, and statistically women don't ask. It shows
up in promotion records and all kinds of things. Senecas
one hundred Women to Hear will be back after this
short break. Give us a sense of how the field
(12:27):
of astronomy and the students have changed. I mean, you've
had an extraordinary lifespan in the field. Would you call
it welcoming for women? I don't know the answer to that,
because I haven't applied for a job for a long time. Statistically,
they are undoubtedly more women, and they have more positions
of power and authority. The press release yesterday or today
(12:48):
about the guys that NASA has said they hit the
asteroid to change its orbit. There were I think six
or seven people quoted, and five or six of them
were women with some position of authority, either in NATHA
or a related institution. So unquestionably more women, more women
with power. Yeah, and so many women astronauts these days,
(13:10):
which wasn't the case not that long ago. Well, Sally
Ride was actually a good friend because he left NATHA
and came to youth the San Diego where he headed
up an institute, and I was on their committee. To
Sally Ride, who died very young. I'm sorry, with a
good friend, the first American woman in space. Yes, yes,
if you don't count the squirrel the squirrel monkey. Well,
(13:34):
we had Seneca women off and talk about the need
to have a you know, women's perspective in all fields.
Do you feel it's important in astronomy? And if you do,
why I'm not totally persuaded that there is a woman's
perspective in reading chapters besides the one I wrote I was.
I know, it's distressed to find not very many of
(13:57):
them had really had fun all the time in the
way I it. I mean, I thoroughly enjoyed being a
reasonably attractive woman in a field with lots of nice guys,
and do I had to have a different perspective. Let
me quote a colleague who staying my preps I couldn't mention,
who claimed that when I joined a conversation, I always
(14:18):
lowered the tone. Well, we've talked about a number of experiences.
I wonder if there are there's something someone experience or
two that just stand out in your life that you'd
like to talk about or mention. Well, I was very
pleased when I got the letter of acceptance at cal Tech.
That actually begins my chapter. Most of the women who
(14:39):
wrote chapter started with being born. I'm born in the
middle of my chaptor. Well, that's a proper obituary, right,
You say first why the person is important, and then
you have them be born later. New York Times always
does that anyways, Um, the letter accepting me at cal
Tech was a great pleasure, getting my first ollership with
(15:00):
a great pleasure. Mary and Joe wherever with enormous fund.
He asked me, when we've known each other just a
few days, and we married when we've known each other
eleven days. In the County Courthouse in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Then three months later we married again in the local synagogue.
But Mary and Koe was great fun. And I'm glad,
he asked me. I'm glad I had been enough to say, yes, Well,
(15:22):
those are wonderful highlights, and I can imagine stay with you,
and we'll always stay with you. And you know, as
an astronomer, you've had such a unique perspective on the world.
Most of us don't have that perspective obviously, And I wonder,
given what's happening today, whether in politics or climate change, whatever,
(15:43):
these are times that can get somebody down. How do
you stay optimistic? You sound like a very upbeat human being,
and I wonder what gives you hope. I don't read
the new paper three often. You know that that actually acted,
That is true. I read the l A Times at
breakfast in New York Times over supper. Um. I guess
(16:04):
I'm hard to discourage. It's true physically that I have
a very high pain threshold. I think it's also true
psychologically that I have a very high pain threshold. I
don't discourage easily. I think the world is going through
the dogs that I should take barking lessons. But people
have been saying the world was going to the dogs
at least since the time of Plato. Were there about
(16:26):
um Fred Hoyle used to say that, yes, science may
not save science from crumbling. Our technological civilization may well die,
and he thought it would happen in his lifetime, which
is now some years ago. But the human races is
physically very tough, and the human race will surely survive.
(16:50):
Even if we blowed ourselves to smithereens or try to
drown in our own garbage. The human race will survive.
It will include none of my descendants. I made my
most important in the contribution to a small carbon footprint
by not having children. A lot to reflect on what
you just said, Virginia, and we thank you so much
for joining us today in this podcast and for the
(17:12):
scintillating conversation. Virginia Tremble, thank you so much, well, thank you,
and farewell to everybody. I'm going to be thank fair
well too. How fascinating to look at our universe through
the eyes of Virginia Tremble. There are three things I
took from that conversation. First, it's important to recognize the
(17:37):
change does happen today. There are more and more women
in the sciences. As Dr Tremble points out, media coverage
of NASA's recent asteroid mission quoted numerous women tied to
the program, some of them in positions of great authority. Second,
Dr Tremble shows us the importance of role models for girls.
(18:01):
Her new book, The Sky Is for Everyone showcases the
autobiographies of thirty seven women astronomers. It's meant, she says,
to reach out of lescence and persuade them that science
is a neat thing for a girl to do. Finally,
as a scientist, Virginia Tremble gives us hope for the future,
(18:24):
as she says things may look difficult right now, but
people have been predicting the end of the world since
Plato's time. The human race, she reminds us, is physically
very tough. Tune in next time to hear about our
next featured woman and discover why she's one of Seneca's
(18:47):
Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women To Hear is
a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast Network and I
Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG Have a
Great Day. It number
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