November 5, 2024 • 31 mins
Disclaimer: Please note this episode contains themes and conversations about sex.
This week on Señora Sex Ed, Diosa and Mala sit down with Josefina Lopez, artistic director and playwright of Real Women Have Curves. In this episode, she shares how she became a sexpert at young age, how she viewed bodily autonomy, and why she believes in order to control her destiny -- a woman had to understand her sexuality.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm ocher no mine tita. She asked me about going
on birth control.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
As she should.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
If she can control her reproduction, she can control her future.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You know what, Tin Rason, Senora Yora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora,
Senora Senora or Senora Senora, Hi, Senora, Welcome to Senora
(00:35):
sex Ed Senora sex Said is not your Mommy's sex Talk.
This show is la platica like you've never heard it before.
Each week we're breaking the stigma and silence around sex
and sexuality in LATINX communities.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously
denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between
Latinas from gen X to gen Z, covering everything from
puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Remember that in this show, a Senora is a woman
with a lot of life experiences and stories to share.
Maybe she's in her thirties, Maybe she's in her forties
or fifties or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe she's sis.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokatra Radio.
Since twenty sixteen. We've covered all kinds of topics, ranging
from politics, to mental health, current events, and of course sex.
We hope you listen to each episode with the Senoras
and Senoritas in Your Life Chapter twelve, Control Your Destiny.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
So today's episode with jos Afina Lopez, it covers a
lot of topics. It covers sexuality, creativity, her ground breaking
award winning play Real Women Have Curves, But it also
covers this notion that when young women have control over
their bodies, when they have control over their reproduction, that
(02:19):
they ultimately have control over their destinies. And I believe
that that is so so true. I remember being eighteen
years old, which might actually be kind of late for
this conversation, but I remember being eighteen years old and
making my appointment to go to Planned parenthood. And I
did all my research, and I made sure that I
could go, and how I would pay for it, how
(02:42):
I would fill out the paperwork, what it would entail,
the different locations, how long it would take, how to
get there, And I really planned it out because I
knew that I wanted to get on birth control. I
knew that I wanted to start being sexually active. But
that I did not want to risk a pregnancy. So
all these years later, not that many years later, but
(03:02):
all these years later, I've never had a child, And
ultimately that's because I have not wanted to have a child,
and being on birth control having access to those resources
made that possible and ultimately made it possible for me
to design my life and design my future and have
control over my reproductive health.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I deeply resonate with the notion that if a woman
can control her reproductive rights, she can control her destiny.
Because when I was twenty three years old, the year
was twenty seventeen, I got pregnant and I decided to
have a medical procedure and have an abortion, and without
(03:45):
receiving that medical care, I don't think that I would
have the current life that I have today. And at
the time, at twenty three years old, I think that
that was the best decision I could have made. And
I think that that choice led me to have a
look at our productions, to have look at our radio,
(04:05):
and to now have this new podcast, Senora Sex said,
And so I am extremely grateful that I had that choice,
and that I had the right to choose, and that
I also had a partner that supported me, and I
think after I made that decision, I started birth control
and I've been on it ever since, and that continues
(04:26):
to be the right choice for me, and I'm deeply
grateful that I get to access this type of medical care.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So for me, I always knew that for a woman
to control her destiny, she had to really have an
understanding of her sexuality.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
That's Josefina Lopez, famously known as the writer of Real
Women Have Curves More from Hosefina.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But I'm also the artistic director of Gasa zero one
zero one Theater in Boo Heights. I'm also the founder.
I am also chikana and I'm a mother, I'm a daughter,
I'm a sister. But I've also I've appeared on shows
talking about sex as a sexpert, and I don't have
a PhD in sexuality, but I would tell you that
(05:13):
I'm probably by the age of fifteen, I probably knew
more about sex than more people on the planet.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Jo Safina was an observant and intuitive girl. She was
very aware of how important it is to have all
the information about your own body.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Only because I read just about every book I could
get my hands on as a twelve year old, fourteen
year old, you know, like as a teenager on sexuality,
and I became very aware of how important, how powerful
it is to take have sovereignty over your sexuality and
your reproductive.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Jo Sefina is one of eight siblings. She witnessed how
her mother had no control over her own body.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And so I was very aware because my mother had
eight kids and she didn't have a say as to
how many she had and then she just I think,
at general hospital and didn't have a say when she
could stop having kids. So for me, I always knew
that for a woman to control her destiny, she had
to really have an understanding of her sexuality, and that
(06:16):
man having no shame about being about having the knowledge
of what you're here, what sexuality really is.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
As a young girl, Josefina spent her summer at the
public library. It was there that she gained access to
all the information she was looking for.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And then I would go there and then one day
I saw this book. It was an amazing book called
Our Bodies, Ourself, which was revolutionary for its time. But
it just happened to be left open on a page
where there was a woman giving birth, and her legs
were spread open and the head of the baby was
coming out, but she was surrounded by all these women
(06:53):
and men who were basically celebrating her. And when I
saw that, at first, I was like, Wow, there's a baby.
The head's coming out of there, like whoa like if
you know, for an eleven year old, it was like
And then I went, oh, and look at all these men,
like there's no shame, there's no disgust. All these people
are celebrating this woman and they're holding her up, but
(07:13):
she's giving birth and it was like a communal birth,
and I thought, oh my god, that's so beautiful. Well
that no, she's not hidden away. There's nothing wrong here,
and they're acknowledging that this is a miracle and there's
something beautiful, and it was so powerful. The image was
so powerful that I was like, oh my god, there's
nothing shameful about giving birth, having sex.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Having a Josefina's curiosity went beyond the library. She even
looked for books at her friend's houses.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I had found these books. And I was at a
friend's house and I had found these two books that
someone had hidden them in the sofa, and the book
was called everything you always wanted to know about sex
but were afraid to ask, and another one called a
happy hookers guides to like ae A satisfying sexuality or
something like that, right, And I remember like, like, what
(08:01):
are these?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Even though Josefina turned to books to get the information
she needed about sex and her own body, did she
ever get a platica or a sex talk from her
own mother.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I also was very well aware of just kind of
the incredible sexism connected to men and women so early on,
because I constantly saw it with my parents that I
knew that my mother was never going to have that
talk with me, because no one ever gave it that
talk with her, and she didn't know much about sex either.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Despite not having access to formal sex education, Josefina's mother
went to a medical clinic in Cerritos, a Pueblo and
San Luis, Potosi, Mexico, in search of birth control options.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
The Catholic Church has so much control of a lot
of clinics in hospitals, and maybe at that time, maybe
it's changed, you know, because they've but she tried to
get birth control bills and they would not give them
to her. They basically said no, you know, you can't like,
we can't give those out because you should have as
many children as God gives you. So this was a
(09:03):
medical clinic, right, So, because my mother didn't want to
have more than two kids like most women, you know,
maybe two's enough, you know, And and so she really
had no say.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And then you know, if the women of Josefina's mother's
generation didn't have access to formal sex education, it's safe
to assume they also didn't have information about sex and
pleasure either.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Ah. And then you know, my mother didn't even like
sex because my dad was probably a very selfish lover
or didn't really care or really believe that. Oh, you know,
women are there just there to be used. It's for
men's pleasure, you know. Woman just has to endure it.
All those all that old programming.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Josefina's father worked for the Brasselro program, a US government
sponsored program that brought Mexican farm and rail railroad hose
Afina's father worked for the Brasselo program, a US government
sponsored program that brought Mexican farm and railroad workers to
the United States. Josefina's father would leave for months at
(10:05):
a time, so.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
He had to leave for long periods of time and
then come back like every five months, six months, once
a year, or you know. And then she often felt
that he left her pregnant that way, no man would
be interested in her, like a woman with that many
kids who was left pregnant, you know, and so she
became undesirable to other men to take her. You know.
(10:30):
That was his security measure of controlling her body. And
you know, and and I don't know if it's true,
but I wouldn't doubt it because that's how she said. No,
he could have protected me, he could have gotten condoms,
he could have you know, done something, and he just
didn't want to.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Josefina's mother had no control over her body. First, she
was denied birth controled by her medical provider. Her husband
didn't use birth control either. Witnessing all of this shaped
how Josefina saw herself and her future.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So I really saw, yeah, just how much control a
man can have over your body and your life. And
for me it was like, no, I want freedom. I
want to be educated so that my mind could be liberated.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Later in life, Joseepina's mother felt comfortable enough to talk
to her daughter about her own sexual needs to.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Be honest with you. Like my mother, I don't think
she might have been like already in her sixties. She
would often like call me names and call me, you know,
bouta here and there, and like I we had these
little fights, and then later on as we made peace,
then years later she asked me to buy her a
vibrator because she had never probably had an orgasm on
(11:42):
her own or even with my father, who and she
had eight kids. And I remember thinking how touched and
moved I was that she trusted me enough to ask
me to get her a vibrator, because she couldn't go
to any of my other sisters because they probably wouldn't
even want to, like entertain the idea of my mother
being a sexual being much less needing a you know,
a vibrator or you know like and so I was like, yeah, Mom,
(12:03):
will get you one. Do you know, do you know
what kind is?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
She's like, aha, you're at Josefina felt honored that her
mother trusted her enough to be vulnerable about her own needs.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And I was like, oh my god, how I'm so
moved that I get to buy my mother a vibrator
and then I get to explain to her how they work.
And it's on her to see, you know, because my
mother knew so little about sex because no one had
to talk with her. And I guess seeing my mother's
ignorance naive because she told me one time one thing
that I just knew, like instinctively, was wrong. And I
(12:36):
remember like doing my research and going, oh, my poor mother,
my poor mother, like she does not understand sex at all,
and she's had already like six, I mean six kids, seven.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Kids by then, Josefina helped her mother get her first
vibrator because she was armed with information about her body
and sexuality. But as a young woman, Josefina was also
influenced by her friend's sexual experiences.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
You know. And the other thing too. I remember having
a girlfriend who had sex, and she talked about for
the first time how painful it was to lose your virginity,
and I remember thinking, you know, when I have sex,
when I choose to have sex, it's not going to
be like, oh, I'm drunk, and it's like, oh, esponte,
because I know the repercussions of getting pregnant, because I
saw how a lot of young women's dreams ended and
(13:21):
not that your dream has to end when you get
pregnant as a teenage girl, because that's just the patriarchal
bullshit made up to make women feel defeated and wrong.
It's not true. But I just saw how some of them.
For them, it was over, like they just didn't dare
to dream anymore because no one was going to give
them the second chance. So for me, I knew that
that decision was probably the most decision, the most important
(13:42):
decision of my life at that time.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Determined to control her destiny, Josefina was one of the
first women to receive nor plant, a birth control method
that can be inserted into the ARM.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I don't know if you remember nor plant, when one
of the first contraceptor devices that you can insert in
the b came out. As soon as it was announced
that it was going to become available in the US,
I volunteered to be one of the women that they
studied so that I could have the first snor plan
around twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Nor Planned has since been discontinued, but similar birth control
options are still available. Jo Safina removed it because of
potential side effects. It was the right option for her.
While she completed her college degree.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And I did it for about four years and then
I found out that it could cause depression, depression, and
I was a little depressed. I was like, damn it,
I hope it's not that. So I took it out
to see. I don't think it was that. I think
I struggled with depression for other reasons connected to my
add and the way my brain works.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Stay tuned, there's more to come, and we're back.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We hope you the break and are ready to listen
to the rest. Ko Safina is also a novelist and
writes about women as the sexual beings that they are,
but her writing has been compared to pornography.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Of course, everyone's afraid to talk about it. And every
project I bring up, people go, oh, that sounds like
a porno, and I go, no, it's not a porno.
It's about a woman being assertive. Yeah, but you know,
the only other stories we have when that happens, that's
a porno. Where are these extremes when Latina can be
assertive about her sexuality with it out of being a
(15:31):
pornography film? Or you know, why is it that that
those are the only very few stories. Because you know,
I'm also a novelist, and I've had fights with editors
about writing about sex and a woman wanting sex and
not necessarily wanting it because she's in love. And I've
had the editors tell me, oh, but that's lutty, and
I'm like, oh my god, this is not a romance novel.
The novel I wrote purposely was meant to be a
(15:54):
novel about a woman exploring her hunger, her sex, her
all her hungers. And it's why men get to do
this all the time. They get to feed their stomach
and they get to feed their sexual lust. My grandmother
had to carry that, All of our ancestors had to
carry that on the female side. I'm not going to
carry that.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
As a director of Casa Serro, Uno, Una Josefina leads
writing classes and believes writers with a history of sexual
trauma are drawn to her classes.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
A large percentage of the people that take my writing
classes are drawn to me because they have to write
about being molested or being raped and they have to
heal that. And because of my class, there is no shame.
They're able to talk openly, and we create a sacred
space where people can talk, and in the story they
get to to take back their power. They get to
(16:42):
go reclaim the pieces of themselves that they lost when
they got molested or raped, or the trauma or the
soul store or the missing soul pieces. They get to
go and reclaim them and then write in the present
and then the present they get to win or confront
the rapist. Even if they never get to do it,
they get to do it in storytelling and in the
unconscious mind. It doesn't matter if you never do it,
(17:05):
as long as you do it in your writing, your
unconscious mind will accept the healing. We'll you know, internalize it,
and you can heal yourself. If you forgive yourself, you
can unhook yourself from the past and then bring it
back to yourself and be present. And power only exists
in the present. So when we write stories that take
(17:25):
place in the present about the past, and we claim
our power, and we stand in our power and confront
the people that have hurt us or oppress us or
sexually exploited us, we can take our power back.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Josefina also explore sexual trauma in her own writing, especially
as it relates to the mestizo identity.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I've dealt with rape and exploitation, all these things for years,
Like in my earliest place, I dealt with it in
terms of like like the story of La Rona and
the colonizers, and how being a mestiso like our identities
born out of rape, and how rape is so present
in terms of like how you dominate women, you dominate nature,
(18:06):
and the connection between women and nature. I've connected it
in so many ways.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And jo Sephina's openness to talk about sex, sexuality and
even sexual trauma is one of the ways she connects
to her creativity.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
It's been an education for me, you know. But but yeah,
I always I love to talk about sex, you know, because, uh,
it's just like it's kind of like how do you
live your life without It's almost like if there's only
five colors and you can't talk about the color red,
and like how are you going to bake this beautiful
painting if there's no red? You know. And so to me,
(18:42):
like my sexuality, my creativity, my spirituality, my intellect, these
are all aspects of who I am. And so to
cut out sexuality is to cut off a part of me,
and you can't be fully self expressed unless you own it.
Because also spiritually speaking, your sexuality and your creativity, which
is your second chakra, they're one and the same. Your
power to create and manifest things and sexuality or tying together.
(19:05):
People don't understand that, but you know, if you can't
have an orgasm, you also it's very hard manifestings.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
We'll be taking a quick break. Don't miss us.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Josefina is known for writing the play Real Women Have
Curves at eighteen years old. It was later adapted into
a film and released in two thousand and two, starring
America Ferrera and Lupe On Thiveros. Josefina believes this project
was divinely gifted to her.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
So I really believe that this play, the story was
divinely given to me because I wrote it when I
started writing at eighteen, but really at around twenty, after
I did to rewrite a couple rewrites. In one of
(20:04):
the rewrites, it practically wrote itself, like the whole undressing scene.
I felt that I was taking dictation because I and
this has happened a couple times, and I know that
I'm very spiritual and I have all these gifts, and
one of them is automatic writing, where I think I
went into a trance and I just started writing really fast,
(20:24):
and that scene practically wrote itself with the women were
undressing and I was just like like I could hear
the voices of the women speaking, and it was just
like like, Okay, I'm trying to keep up with you, ladies.
Come on you like flow download down.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Real Women Have Curves was influenced by Hosafina's experience working
at a factory. The women we see in the play
and on screen are real, even at eighteen years old.
She was inspired by the women at her workplace.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
At eighteen, I knew that there was something special about
this factory because we laughed so much and we got
sipt and we laughed all day. And I said, oh
my god, this work is so hard and it's like
twelve hours days. I mean, I didn't work twelve hours,
but the ladies like often worked like eight to twelve
hours a day. And it was hot, you know, just
like the factory. But we laughed so much and that's
(21:14):
what made it bearable. And I remember like waking up
in the morning and thinking, oh my god, I can't
wait to see what kind of adventures were were going
to get into, what kind of stories we're going to share?
And I would just I look forward to working, even
though I got paid very.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Little, and I even though the work was hard and unforgiving.
Josefina remembers all the laughter, especially since her mother and
sister also worked at the factory and.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It was hard work. I remember thinking, there's something really
special about the fact that that we laughed so much.
And we and then you know, when my sister read
a poem because she was she was in lust or
in love, I don't know. Next with the next door neighbor,
who was a social looking guy, she was, she wrote
him a poem and she was all into him. And
(21:58):
when she read this poem and shared it with all
of us and we were cheering her on, I remember thinking,
oh my god, this is so special. This sewing factory
has become a poetry salon. You know, it's become a
cultural center of storytelling, of oral literature. You know, the
cheesema is all literature, right, It transcended that little factory
because it was something else. And I just said, oh
(22:20):
my god, I want to share all these all these
funny stories because my mother also was watching.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh Sephena also fondly remembers the dirty jokes her mother
would make.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
My mother also told the dirtiest, nastiest jokes, and I
remember thinking my mother, like, it's so weird because she
knew nothing about sex, so she was like a little
girl in like terms of like just her curiosity about sex,
but not really like owning up to it. And I
just thought, Oh my god, like, what an amazing experience
(22:51):
I'm having. It's such an education. And I didn't get
to go to college the first year after high school
because I was in the I was still trying to
get my full green cart.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know, Josefina has seen more than thirty productions of
real women have curves. Each time she learns something new
about the characters she created.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I because I've seen like more than thirty productions of
real women have curves. I still learn every time when
I see it, because I go, Wow. Every woman that
does the play brings herself. It's almost like a dress
that she puts on and then she has to tailor
it to her measurements, and then she brings her femininity,
(23:31):
her humanity. And when I watch the play, I see
how the lines could be interpreted so many ways, and
how much humor there is that each woman brings, you know,
something to it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
The undressing scene is not just the physical removal of clothes.
It takes on a brand new meaning for Hoseefina each time.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But the biggest thing I learned, because I've seen it
so many times and it works every time, is that
when these women divest themselves, they're taking off their clothes,
but they're divesting themselves of shame and the patriarchy and
all these expectations, and they're just getting to their humanity.
They get to this incredible feminine self. And what I
(24:14):
learned is that all women have curves because feminine energy
is a curve. Like I was shown this that you know,
the symbol for the eight, what we call eight or infinity,
is also the energy. It's sacred feminine energy. And I remember, like, so,
when I see the women taking off their clothes and
then they're laughing and then they get in a circle,
(24:36):
something sacred happens. There's a sacred space that's created by
all the sacred feminine energy of all these women being
in tune with this sacred feminine energy that's within them
that's been like oppressed through all these expectations of what
a woman is and what a woman should look like.
And in reality, it's like in that moment, these women
are just these beautiful goddesses. They're sacred. And so what
(24:59):
I the witness the audience do is that the audience
is like uncomfortable with sitting with their shame. And as
these women feel more comfortable in their bodies and they
feel proud, the audience also feels like like some bag
of shame gets taken off. People, like we're divested of
our shame as well.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
With time and perspective, Josefina also sees the different stages
of womanhood that these four women represent.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Because it shows us and also the other reason why
this story works. And again I didn't realize this when
I was twenty one, you know, when it got produced. Now,
as you know, fifty five year old wise woman, I go, oh,
that's why this story works. But it was given to
me divinely as well, this message that each woman, the
four women, represent the four stages of womanhood. Right, there's
(25:49):
the virgin, the maiden, the mother, and the crown, which
is the wise woman, and that these four women are
the five women. They represent different stages of this womanhood
and how they're having challenges transitioning to the next stage
of their life. Some of them are, you know, having
trouble getting married, transitioning to being made. You know, they're
(26:11):
like the maiden who's transitioned to mother, like the virgin transitioning.
You know, there's something imperfect or flawed about them that
gives them the challenges them to become, you know, to
go into the next cycle. So they're kind of stuck.
And I went, oh, that's right, because one of the
women wants to have a baby and she can't transition
to motherhood. The other one is having mental pause, but
(26:32):
she doesn't like it, and she's having trouble accepting her transition.
That's why she procheved. In her mind, she pretends she's
pregnant or she's thinking she's pregnant because she doesn't want
to transition to her to her wisdom.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
The depth to the women in real women have Curves
doesn't stop there. Jo Sephina also sees the challenges of
being a woman and how the four seasons are represented, and.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I realized, oh, so these are examples of women of
because the tragic part of being a woman, especially in
Los Angeles and in Hollywood, and being influenced by Hollywood,
is that you're made to believe that the only value
you have as a woman is if you you know,
there are four seasons, right, there's winter, spring, summer, and
fall right or depending where you start, right, and all
(27:20):
of nature adheres to these four seasons, and that's wholeness.
But for women, we're told that we have to stay
in spring forever, maybe summer, but we can't possibly go
into fall because we're useless.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Society's emphasis on youthfulness and desirability leaves women stuck in spring.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
We're useless to men because we're but I can use
this word unfuckable, like we're not useful anymore. And so
we've been living our lives as though we have to
be stuck in spring, right, These like innocent maidens who
are like always twenty one and you know, are these
hot like you know, thirty year old. But we're not
allowed to grow with the seasons. We're not allowed to
grow into our wisdom.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Josefina mentions the krone archetype, which represents wisdom, transformation and release.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Because it's made like, oh, you're gonna be ugly and
old and that da and it's like no, no, no,
like when we become chromes. And again the word is
not very sexy, right, chrome. It's more like I like
using wise women or elder right. And our culture is
like no, you saw you know, or aku amena or whatever,
but a wise woman, right. And so we can't grow
(28:29):
into our wisdom. We can't own this because we're supposed
to be in spring forever, right, because that's the only
that's value by men, you know, this innocent spring chickens right.
And I don't know, I've been looking forward to becoming
a crone, a wise woman, and not on I'm fifty five.
I finally, you know, love myself completely. I see the
(28:50):
beauty and all of who I am, and I've come
into my wisdom.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Josefina fully embraces the wisdom that comes with age, not
just personally but with her artistic projects. Real Women Have
Curves is now heading to Broadway and a new audience
will learn about it and learn to love the characters.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And now I go, God, I want to share this
with everyone. So I'm so happy that you know, Real
Women Have Curves is not going to be a Broadway
musical because that way people can discover it again, you know.
And then I'm hoping there's a movie about the Broadway Musical.
And then I'm hoping there's a TV show because I've
always wanted to do a TV show or even a
talk show. I've always wanted to do my own talk
(29:30):
show called Real Women have curves, you know, and it's
the curves of life as well as the sacred feminine
curves as well as your physical curve. You know, curves
in every way because curves are really important in terms
of energy.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
This interview with Jusefina Lopez was so fun and so insightful.
I particularly loved her point about a woman owning her
body and her sexuality, and when a young woman has
as much information as she can possibly get her hands
on about her sexuality, that means that that young woman
will ultimately have control over her future and her destiny.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Next time, writer and artist Gaby Rivera and co founder
of Radical Monarchs Annaivette Martinez join us to discuss their
nonlinear love story.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
A year and a half later, she was like, I
really want to have the baby, and I was just Okay,
then I'm going to do whatever I can to support
you in having a baby. I locked her ups.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Cell Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locata
Productions and Michael Tura Podcast Network.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munios and Bios FM.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Also executive produced by Jiselle Frances.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Produced by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Story editing by biosa Fem.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Music direction by Crisol Lomeli
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And music produced by Brian Gazzo
I'm ocher no mine tita. She asked me about going
on birth control.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
As she should.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
If she can control her reproduction, she can control her future.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
You know what, Tin Rason, Senora Yora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora,
Senora Senora or Senora Senora, Hi, Senora, Welcome to Senora
(00:35):
sex Ed Senora sex Said is not your Mommy's sex Talk.
This show is la platica like you've never heard it before.
Each week we're breaking the stigma and silence around sex
and sexuality in LATINX communities.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously
denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between
Latinas from gen X to gen Z, covering everything from
puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Remember that in this show, a Senora is a woman
with a lot of life experiences and stories to share.
Maybe she's in her thirties, Maybe she's in her forties
or fifties or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe she's sis.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokatra Radio.
Since twenty sixteen. We've covered all kinds of topics, ranging
from politics, to mental health, current events, and of course sex.
We hope you listen to each episode with the Senoras
and Senoritas in Your Life Chapter twelve, Control Your Destiny.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
So today's episode with jos Afina Lopez, it covers a
lot of topics. It covers sexuality, creativity, her ground breaking
award winning play Real Women Have Curves, But it also
covers this notion that when young women have control over
their bodies, when they have control over their reproduction, that
(02:19):
they ultimately have control over their destinies. And I believe
that that is so so true. I remember being eighteen
years old, which might actually be kind of late for
this conversation, but I remember being eighteen years old and
making my appointment to go to Planned parenthood. And I
did all my research, and I made sure that I
could go, and how I would pay for it, how
(02:42):
I would fill out the paperwork, what it would entail,
the different locations, how long it would take, how to
get there, And I really planned it out because I
knew that I wanted to get on birth control. I
knew that I wanted to start being sexually active. But
that I did not want to risk a pregnancy. So
all these years later, not that many years later, but
(03:02):
all these years later, I've never had a child, And
ultimately that's because I have not wanted to have a child,
and being on birth control having access to those resources
made that possible and ultimately made it possible for me
to design my life and design my future and have
control over my reproductive health.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I deeply resonate with the notion that if a woman
can control her reproductive rights, she can control her destiny.
Because when I was twenty three years old, the year
was twenty seventeen, I got pregnant and I decided to
have a medical procedure and have an abortion, and without
(03:45):
receiving that medical care, I don't think that I would
have the current life that I have today. And at
the time, at twenty three years old, I think that
that was the best decision I could have made. And
I think that that choice led me to have a
look at our productions, to have look at our radio,
(04:05):
and to now have this new podcast, Senora Sex said,
And so I am extremely grateful that I had that choice,
and that I had the right to choose, and that
I also had a partner that supported me, and I
think after I made that decision, I started birth control
and I've been on it ever since, and that continues
(04:26):
to be the right choice for me, and I'm deeply
grateful that I get to access this type of medical care.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
So for me, I always knew that for a woman
to control her destiny, she had to really have an
understanding of her sexuality.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
That's Josefina Lopez, famously known as the writer of Real
Women Have Curves More from Hosefina.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But I'm also the artistic director of Gasa zero one
zero one Theater in Boo Heights. I'm also the founder.
I am also chikana and I'm a mother, I'm a daughter,
I'm a sister. But I've also I've appeared on shows
talking about sex as a sexpert, and I don't have
a PhD in sexuality, but I would tell you that
(05:13):
I'm probably by the age of fifteen, I probably knew
more about sex than more people on the planet.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Jo Safina was an observant and intuitive girl. She was
very aware of how important it is to have all
the information about your own body.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Only because I read just about every book I could
get my hands on as a twelve year old, fourteen
year old, you know, like as a teenager on sexuality,
and I became very aware of how important, how powerful
it is to take have sovereignty over your sexuality and
your reproductive.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Jo Sefina is one of eight siblings. She witnessed how
her mother had no control over her own body.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And so I was very aware because my mother had
eight kids and she didn't have a say as to
how many she had and then she just I think,
at general hospital and didn't have a say when she
could stop having kids. So for me, I always knew
that for a woman to control her destiny, she had
to really have an understanding of her sexuality, and that
(06:16):
man having no shame about being about having the knowledge
of what you're here, what sexuality really is.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
As a young girl, Josefina spent her summer at the
public library. It was there that she gained access to
all the information she was looking for.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And then I would go there and then one day
I saw this book. It was an amazing book called
Our Bodies, Ourself, which was revolutionary for its time. But
it just happened to be left open on a page
where there was a woman giving birth, and her legs
were spread open and the head of the baby was
coming out, but she was surrounded by all these women
(06:53):
and men who were basically celebrating her. And when I
saw that, at first, I was like, Wow, there's a baby.
The head's coming out of there, like whoa like if
you know, for an eleven year old, it was like
And then I went, oh, and look at all these men,
like there's no shame, there's no disgust. All these people
are celebrating this woman and they're holding her up, but
(07:13):
she's giving birth and it was like a communal birth,
and I thought, oh my god, that's so beautiful. Well
that no, she's not hidden away. There's nothing wrong here,
and they're acknowledging that this is a miracle and there's
something beautiful, and it was so powerful. The image was
so powerful that I was like, oh my god, there's
nothing shameful about giving birth, having sex.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Having a Josefina's curiosity went beyond the library. She even
looked for books at her friend's houses.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I had found these books. And I was at a
friend's house and I had found these two books that
someone had hidden them in the sofa, and the book
was called everything you always wanted to know about sex
but were afraid to ask, and another one called a
happy hookers guides to like ae A satisfying sexuality or
something like that, right, And I remember like, like, what
(08:01):
are these?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Even though Josefina turned to books to get the information
she needed about sex and her own body, did she
ever get a platica or a sex talk from her
own mother.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I also was very well aware of just kind of
the incredible sexism connected to men and women so early on,
because I constantly saw it with my parents that I
knew that my mother was never going to have that
talk with me, because no one ever gave it that
talk with her, and she didn't know much about sex either.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Despite not having access to formal sex education, Josefina's mother
went to a medical clinic in Cerritos, a Pueblo and
San Luis, Potosi, Mexico, in search of birth control options.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
The Catholic Church has so much control of a lot
of clinics in hospitals, and maybe at that time, maybe
it's changed, you know, because they've but she tried to
get birth control bills and they would not give them
to her. They basically said no, you know, you can't like,
we can't give those out because you should have as
many children as God gives you. So this was a
(09:03):
medical clinic, right, So, because my mother didn't want to
have more than two kids like most women, you know,
maybe two's enough, you know, And and so she really
had no say.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And then you know, if the women of Josefina's mother's
generation didn't have access to formal sex education, it's safe
to assume they also didn't have information about sex and
pleasure either.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Ah. And then you know, my mother didn't even like
sex because my dad was probably a very selfish lover
or didn't really care or really believe that. Oh, you know,
women are there just there to be used. It's for
men's pleasure, you know. Woman just has to endure it.
All those all that old programming.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Josefina's father worked for the Brasselro program, a US government
sponsored program that brought Mexican farm and rail railroad hose
Afina's father worked for the Brasselo program, a US government
sponsored program that brought Mexican farm and railroad workers to
the United States. Josefina's father would leave for months at
(10:05):
a time, so.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
He had to leave for long periods of time and
then come back like every five months, six months, once
a year, or you know. And then she often felt
that he left her pregnant that way, no man would
be interested in her, like a woman with that many
kids who was left pregnant, you know, and so she
became undesirable to other men to take her. You know.
(10:30):
That was his security measure of controlling her body. And
you know, and and I don't know if it's true,
but I wouldn't doubt it because that's how she said. No,
he could have protected me, he could have gotten condoms,
he could have you know, done something, and he just
didn't want to.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Josefina's mother had no control over her body. First, she
was denied birth controled by her medical provider. Her husband
didn't use birth control either. Witnessing all of this shaped
how Josefina saw herself and her future.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
So I really saw, yeah, just how much control a
man can have over your body and your life. And
for me it was like, no, I want freedom. I
want to be educated so that my mind could be liberated.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Later in life, Joseepina's mother felt comfortable enough to talk
to her daughter about her own sexual needs to.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Be honest with you. Like my mother, I don't think
she might have been like already in her sixties. She
would often like call me names and call me, you know,
bouta here and there, and like I we had these
little fights, and then later on as we made peace,
then years later she asked me to buy her a
vibrator because she had never probably had an orgasm on
(11:42):
her own or even with my father, who and she
had eight kids. And I remember thinking how touched and
moved I was that she trusted me enough to ask
me to get her a vibrator, because she couldn't go
to any of my other sisters because they probably wouldn't
even want to, like entertain the idea of my mother
being a sexual being much less needing a you know,
a vibrator or you know like and so I was like, yeah, Mom,
(12:03):
will get you one. Do you know, do you know
what kind is?
Speaker 1 (12:06):
She's like, aha, you're at Josefina felt honored that her
mother trusted her enough to be vulnerable about her own needs.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
And I was like, oh my god, how I'm so
moved that I get to buy my mother a vibrator
and then I get to explain to her how they work.
And it's on her to see, you know, because my
mother knew so little about sex because no one had
to talk with her. And I guess seeing my mother's
ignorance naive because she told me one time one thing
that I just knew, like instinctively, was wrong. And I
(12:36):
remember like doing my research and going, oh, my poor mother,
my poor mother, like she does not understand sex at all,
and she's had already like six, I mean six kids, seven.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Kids by then, Josefina helped her mother get her first
vibrator because she was armed with information about her body
and sexuality. But as a young woman, Josefina was also
influenced by her friend's sexual experiences.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
You know. And the other thing too. I remember having
a girlfriend who had sex, and she talked about for
the first time how painful it was to lose your virginity,
and I remember thinking, you know, when I have sex,
when I choose to have sex, it's not going to
be like, oh, I'm drunk, and it's like, oh, esponte,
because I know the repercussions of getting pregnant, because I
saw how a lot of young women's dreams ended and
(13:21):
not that your dream has to end when you get
pregnant as a teenage girl, because that's just the patriarchal
bullshit made up to make women feel defeated and wrong.
It's not true. But I just saw how some of them.
For them, it was over, like they just didn't dare
to dream anymore because no one was going to give
them the second chance. So for me, I knew that
that decision was probably the most decision, the most important
(13:42):
decision of my life at that time.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Determined to control her destiny, Josefina was one of the
first women to receive nor plant, a birth control method
that can be inserted into the ARM.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I don't know if you remember nor plant, when one
of the first contraceptor devices that you can insert in
the b came out. As soon as it was announced
that it was going to become available in the US,
I volunteered to be one of the women that they
studied so that I could have the first snor plan
around twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Nor Planned has since been discontinued, but similar birth control
options are still available. Jo Safina removed it because of
potential side effects. It was the right option for her.
While she completed her college degree.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And I did it for about four years and then
I found out that it could cause depression, depression, and
I was a little depressed. I was like, damn it,
I hope it's not that. So I took it out
to see. I don't think it was that. I think
I struggled with depression for other reasons connected to my
add and the way my brain works.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Stay tuned, there's more to come, and we're back.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
We hope you the break and are ready to listen
to the rest. Ko Safina is also a novelist and
writes about women as the sexual beings that they are,
but her writing has been compared to pornography.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Of course, everyone's afraid to talk about it. And every
project I bring up, people go, oh, that sounds like
a porno, and I go, no, it's not a porno.
It's about a woman being assertive. Yeah, but you know,
the only other stories we have when that happens, that's
a porno. Where are these extremes when Latina can be
assertive about her sexuality with it out of being a
(15:31):
pornography film? Or you know, why is it that that
those are the only very few stories. Because you know,
I'm also a novelist, and I've had fights with editors
about writing about sex and a woman wanting sex and
not necessarily wanting it because she's in love. And I've
had the editors tell me, oh, but that's lutty, and
I'm like, oh my god, this is not a romance novel.
The novel I wrote purposely was meant to be a
(15:54):
novel about a woman exploring her hunger, her sex, her
all her hungers. And it's why men get to do
this all the time. They get to feed their stomach
and they get to feed their sexual lust. My grandmother
had to carry that, All of our ancestors had to
carry that on the female side. I'm not going to
carry that.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
As a director of Casa Serro, Uno, Una Josefina leads
writing classes and believes writers with a history of sexual
trauma are drawn to her classes.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
A large percentage of the people that take my writing
classes are drawn to me because they have to write
about being molested or being raped and they have to
heal that. And because of my class, there is no shame.
They're able to talk openly, and we create a sacred
space where people can talk, and in the story they
get to to take back their power. They get to
(16:42):
go reclaim the pieces of themselves that they lost when
they got molested or raped, or the trauma or the
soul store or the missing soul pieces. They get to
go and reclaim them and then write in the present
and then the present they get to win or confront
the rapist. Even if they never get to do it,
they get to do it in storytelling and in the
unconscious mind. It doesn't matter if you never do it,
(17:05):
as long as you do it in your writing, your
unconscious mind will accept the healing. We'll you know, internalize it,
and you can heal yourself. If you forgive yourself, you
can unhook yourself from the past and then bring it
back to yourself and be present. And power only exists
in the present. So when we write stories that take
(17:25):
place in the present about the past, and we claim
our power, and we stand in our power and confront
the people that have hurt us or oppress us or
sexually exploited us, we can take our power back.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Josefina also explore sexual trauma in her own writing, especially
as it relates to the mestizo identity.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I've dealt with rape and exploitation, all these things for years,
Like in my earliest place, I dealt with it in
terms of like like the story of La Rona and
the colonizers, and how being a mestiso like our identities
born out of rape, and how rape is so present
in terms of like how you dominate women, you dominate nature,
(18:06):
and the connection between women and nature. I've connected it
in so many ways.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
And jo Sephina's openness to talk about sex, sexuality and
even sexual trauma is one of the ways she connects
to her creativity.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
It's been an education for me, you know. But but yeah,
I always I love to talk about sex, you know, because, uh,
it's just like it's kind of like how do you
live your life without It's almost like if there's only
five colors and you can't talk about the color red,
and like how are you going to bake this beautiful
painting if there's no red? You know. And so to me,
(18:42):
like my sexuality, my creativity, my spirituality, my intellect, these
are all aspects of who I am. And so to
cut out sexuality is to cut off a part of me,
and you can't be fully self expressed unless you own it.
Because also spiritually speaking, your sexuality and your creativity, which
is your second chakra, they're one and the same. Your
power to create and manifest things and sexuality or tying together.
(19:05):
People don't understand that, but you know, if you can't
have an orgasm, you also it's very hard manifestings.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
We'll be taking a quick break. Don't miss us.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Josefina is known for writing the play Real Women Have
Curves at eighteen years old. It was later adapted into
a film and released in two thousand and two, starring
America Ferrera and Lupe On Thiveros. Josefina believes this project
was divinely gifted to her.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
So I really believe that this play, the story was
divinely given to me because I wrote it when I
started writing at eighteen, but really at around twenty, after
I did to rewrite a couple rewrites. In one of
(20:04):
the rewrites, it practically wrote itself, like the whole undressing scene.
I felt that I was taking dictation because I and
this has happened a couple times, and I know that
I'm very spiritual and I have all these gifts, and
one of them is automatic writing, where I think I
went into a trance and I just started writing really fast,
(20:24):
and that scene practically wrote itself with the women were
undressing and I was just like like I could hear
the voices of the women speaking, and it was just
like like, Okay, I'm trying to keep up with you, ladies.
Come on you like flow download down.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Real Women Have Curves was influenced by Hosafina's experience working
at a factory. The women we see in the play
and on screen are real, even at eighteen years old.
She was inspired by the women at her workplace.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
At eighteen, I knew that there was something special about
this factory because we laughed so much and we got
sipt and we laughed all day. And I said, oh
my god, this work is so hard and it's like
twelve hours days. I mean, I didn't work twelve hours,
but the ladies like often worked like eight to twelve
hours a day. And it was hot, you know, just
like the factory. But we laughed so much and that's
(21:14):
what made it bearable. And I remember like waking up
in the morning and thinking, oh my god, I can't
wait to see what kind of adventures were were going
to get into, what kind of stories we're going to share?
And I would just I look forward to working, even
though I got paid very.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Little, and I even though the work was hard and unforgiving.
Josefina remembers all the laughter, especially since her mother and
sister also worked at the factory and.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It was hard work. I remember thinking, there's something really
special about the fact that that we laughed so much.
And we and then you know, when my sister read
a poem because she was she was in lust or
in love, I don't know. Next with the next door neighbor,
who was a social looking guy, she was, she wrote
him a poem and she was all into him. And
(21:58):
when she read this poem and shared it with all
of us and we were cheering her on, I remember thinking,
oh my god, this is so special. This sewing factory
has become a poetry salon. You know, it's become a
cultural center of storytelling, of oral literature. You know, the
cheesema is all literature, right, It transcended that little factory
because it was something else. And I just said, oh
(22:20):
my god, I want to share all these all these
funny stories because my mother also was watching.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Oh Sephena also fondly remembers the dirty jokes her mother
would make.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
My mother also told the dirtiest, nastiest jokes, and I
remember thinking my mother, like, it's so weird because she
knew nothing about sex, so she was like a little
girl in like terms of like just her curiosity about sex,
but not really like owning up to it. And I
just thought, Oh my god, like, what an amazing experience
(22:51):
I'm having. It's such an education. And I didn't get
to go to college the first year after high school
because I was in the I was still trying to
get my full green cart.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know, Josefina has seen more than thirty productions of
real women have curves. Each time she learns something new
about the characters she created.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I because I've seen like more than thirty productions of
real women have curves. I still learn every time when
I see it, because I go, Wow. Every woman that
does the play brings herself. It's almost like a dress
that she puts on and then she has to tailor
it to her measurements, and then she brings her femininity,
(23:31):
her humanity. And when I watch the play, I see
how the lines could be interpreted so many ways, and
how much humor there is that each woman brings, you know,
something to it.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
The undressing scene is not just the physical removal of clothes.
It takes on a brand new meaning for Hoseefina each time.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But the biggest thing I learned, because I've seen it
so many times and it works every time, is that
when these women divest themselves, they're taking off their clothes,
but they're divesting themselves of shame and the patriarchy and
all these expectations, and they're just getting to their humanity.
They get to this incredible feminine self. And what I
(24:14):
learned is that all women have curves because feminine energy
is a curve. Like I was shown this that you know,
the symbol for the eight, what we call eight or infinity,
is also the energy. It's sacred feminine energy. And I remember, like, so,
when I see the women taking off their clothes and
then they're laughing and then they get in a circle,
(24:36):
something sacred happens. There's a sacred space that's created by
all the sacred feminine energy of all these women being
in tune with this sacred feminine energy that's within them
that's been like oppressed through all these expectations of what
a woman is and what a woman should look like.
And in reality, it's like in that moment, these women
are just these beautiful goddesses. They're sacred. And so what
(24:59):
I the witness the audience do is that the audience
is like uncomfortable with sitting with their shame. And as
these women feel more comfortable in their bodies and they
feel proud, the audience also feels like like some bag
of shame gets taken off. People, like we're divested of
our shame as well.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
With time and perspective, Josefina also sees the different stages
of womanhood that these four women represent.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Because it shows us and also the other reason why
this story works. And again I didn't realize this when
I was twenty one, you know, when it got produced. Now,
as you know, fifty five year old wise woman, I go, oh,
that's why this story works. But it was given to
me divinely as well, this message that each woman, the
four women, represent the four stages of womanhood. Right, there's
(25:49):
the virgin, the maiden, the mother, and the crown, which
is the wise woman, and that these four women are
the five women. They represent different stages of this womanhood
and how they're having challenges transitioning to the next stage
of their life. Some of them are, you know, having
trouble getting married, transitioning to being made. You know, they're
(26:11):
like the maiden who's transitioned to mother, like the virgin transitioning.
You know, there's something imperfect or flawed about them that
gives them the challenges them to become, you know, to
go into the next cycle. So they're kind of stuck.
And I went, oh, that's right, because one of the
women wants to have a baby and she can't transition
to motherhood. The other one is having mental pause, but
(26:32):
she doesn't like it, and she's having trouble accepting her transition.
That's why she procheved. In her mind, she pretends she's
pregnant or she's thinking she's pregnant because she doesn't want
to transition to her to her wisdom.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
The depth to the women in real women have Curves
doesn't stop there. Jo Sephina also sees the challenges of
being a woman and how the four seasons are represented, and.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I realized, oh, so these are examples of women of
because the tragic part of being a woman, especially in
Los Angeles and in Hollywood, and being influenced by Hollywood,
is that you're made to believe that the only value
you have as a woman is if you you know,
there are four seasons, right, there's winter, spring, summer, and
fall right or depending where you start, right, and all
(27:20):
of nature adheres to these four seasons, and that's wholeness.
But for women, we're told that we have to stay
in spring forever, maybe summer, but we can't possibly go
into fall because we're useless.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Society's emphasis on youthfulness and desirability leaves women stuck in spring.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
We're useless to men because we're but I can use
this word unfuckable, like we're not useful anymore. And so
we've been living our lives as though we have to
be stuck in spring, right, These like innocent maidens who
are like always twenty one and you know, are these
hot like you know, thirty year old. But we're not
allowed to grow with the seasons. We're not allowed to
grow into our wisdom.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Josefina mentions the krone archetype, which represents wisdom, transformation and release.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Because it's made like, oh, you're gonna be ugly and
old and that da and it's like no, no, no,
like when we become chromes. And again the word is
not very sexy, right, chrome. It's more like I like
using wise women or elder right. And our culture is
like no, you saw you know, or aku amena or whatever,
but a wise woman, right. And so we can't grow
(28:29):
into our wisdom. We can't own this because we're supposed
to be in spring forever, right, because that's the only
that's value by men, you know, this innocent spring chickens right.
And I don't know, I've been looking forward to becoming
a crone, a wise woman, and not on I'm fifty five.
I finally, you know, love myself completely. I see the
(28:50):
beauty and all of who I am, and I've come
into my wisdom.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Josefina fully embraces the wisdom that comes with age, not
just personally but with her artistic projects. Real Women Have
Curves is now heading to Broadway and a new audience
will learn about it and learn to love the characters.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
And now I go, God, I want to share this
with everyone. So I'm so happy that you know, Real
Women Have Curves is not going to be a Broadway
musical because that way people can discover it again, you know.
And then I'm hoping there's a movie about the Broadway Musical.
And then I'm hoping there's a TV show because I've
always wanted to do a TV show or even a
talk show. I've always wanted to do my own talk
(29:30):
show called Real Women have curves, you know, and it's
the curves of life as well as the sacred feminine
curves as well as your physical curve. You know, curves
in every way because curves are really important in terms
of energy.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
This interview with Jusefina Lopez was so fun and so insightful.
I particularly loved her point about a woman owning her
body and her sexuality, and when a young woman has
as much information as she can possibly get her hands
on about her sexuality, that means that that young woman
will ultimately have control over her future and her destiny.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Next time, writer and artist Gaby Rivera and co founder
of Radical Monarchs Annaivette Martinez join us to discuss their
nonlinear love story.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
A year and a half later, she was like, I
really want to have the baby, and I was just Okay,
then I'm going to do whatever I can to support
you in having a baby. I locked her ups.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Cell Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locata
Productions and Michael Tura Podcast Network.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munios and Bios FM.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Also executive produced by Jiselle Frances.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Produced by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Story editing by biosa Fem.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Music direction by Crisol Lomeli
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And music produced by Brian Gazzo
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