December 31, 2024 • 22 mins
In this week's episode of Señora Sex Ed, novelist Lilliam Rivera recalls "popping her cherry," moving from New York to Los Angeles to raise her children, and the steps she's taken to love herself, her body, and her life.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Amiga. Do the kids still say popping your cherry? Well,
that's too bad.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senor, Hi, Senora, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
To Senora sex Ed Senora sex Said is not your
Mommy sex Talk. This show is la platica like you've
never heard it before. With each episode, we're breaking the
stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in LATINX communities.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously
denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between
Latinas from gen X to gen Z, covering everything from
puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Just a reminder that in this show, a Senora is
a woman with a lot of life experiences and stories
to share. Maybe she's in her thirties, Maybe she's in
her forties or fifties or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe
she sits.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokatra Radio.
Since twenty sixteen, we've covered all kinds of topics, ranging
from politics to mental health, current events, and of course sex.
We still have so much to learn, though, and we
hope you listen to each episode with the Senoras and
Senoritas in Your Life.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Chapter twenty pop by Cherry.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm from the Bronx. So there there's always this thing,
this saying, oh, he popped my cherry. I don't know
if they do they say that.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
That's Liliam Rivera. She's a fifty four year old novelist.
She's written books for children, young adults, books, graphic novels,
and recently debuted her first adult novel, a fashion horror
book called Tiny Threads For Lilium.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Whoever popped your cherry was just the first step towards
something better, at least that's what she thought back then.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, so it was always this thing of whoever is
gonna pop your cherry is gonna It's just that one step,
the first step towards whatever sexual liberation is gonna be
after that, hopefully right. But it was really this thing of,
whoever's gonna pop my cherry, let's just get it over
with and do it. But I was ready in the
sense like I wanted it. I wanted to experience it,
(02:37):
and I also wanted to just get it over with
because I felt maybe even at that time, that I
knew it wasn't gonna be that good anyway, that is
going to take time for it to get better.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Lilium's first sexual experience was not great. It was good,
but not great, and eventually it did get better, but
she still carried guilt knowing her mother was disapprove. Lilliam
was raised Catholic and was taught that sex was not
allowed before marriage.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It wasn't great, but I did feel like afterwards it
did progressively get better, which is good. But I also
felt a huge amount of guilt knowing that my mom, specifically,
I'm sure was disapproving of it all, even if she
didn't know anything.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Lilliam's intro to sex education was through her cousins who
lived in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I really learned about sexuality or even being like sensual
is really through my cousins because we all lived pretty
much around the same neighborhood. Everybody was so the only
the only places that we sorry, the only places that
we would hang out. Every we would all hang out together,
So it was always the family functions. Whose house was
(03:50):
gonna see what the boxing We're gonna go to this
person's house, lacking signette, whatever it was. We were all
partying together, drinking together, and getting all the information we
can from each other. But yeah, my parents, or my
mom specifically, really believes that you're supposed to not have
sex until you get married.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Once Lilliam became sexually active, she started birth control, but
because she was on her mother's health insurance, her mother
found out.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I'd say one of the big things, one of the
big revelations for me was when I was sexually active
and I had to get I had to talk to
her about insurance because I need to get on the pill,
and I had to tell her. And when I told her,
my mom started crying. She was just like, how could you.
(04:38):
I didn't raise you to sex, and she was just
really upset. God must have been seventeen, seventeen or eighteen. Yeah,
she was just really upset about it. But I was
I thought I was being very responsible. She didn't want
to hear about it.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
In early adulthood, Lilium was a journalist and edited a
piece about abortion stories. Her parents were deeply upset she'd
worked on that story because it was something they didn't support.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I remember one time I wrote and I edited a
piece of like people young Latinas or Latinas in general,
we're talking about their moments of their abortions, right, just
being really upfront about it. I remember my father looked
at the magazine and saw my byline said edited by
So it wasn't even like I was writing and say
(05:31):
but he was so upset, like so offended, like how
could you even talk about that? This is when we're
against this. And so it's just been really interesting because
maybe that's the reason why I left New York to
moved to La so I could raise my kids in
a different way.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation. Stay tuned, there's more
to come.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back. Lillium has two daughters.
Her eldest is twenty years old and her youngest is
twelve years old. Determined to do things differently, Lilium is
open about all things related to sex and sexual health.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Have two daughters, and the twenty year old as soon
as she got a boyfriend in high school, I was like,
we're going to go get you on the pill.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Raised in a different kind of household, Lilium wants her
daughters to come to her with anything.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
She want to be able to tell me stuff. But
it's so opposite of what my parents are. They don't
really talk about these kind of taboo things for them, Sexuality,
even queerness, all of that is very much under the rug,
and if it's against the religion, they don't really believe
in it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
When Lilliam's twelve year old daughter came out to her,
she armed herself with the resources needed to support her.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
My twelve year old came out, she came out to
me queer and then so then my job is really
to get her many as much resources that she feels comfortable.
So it's always been I've always been that type of
mother of what do you want to do? You want
to do this, Okay, let me figure out how to
do it. And I think that also is like coming
from my parents too, because they always they didn't have
enough money for anything, so it was just like, what
(07:14):
can we do that's free. So I still have that
same mentality with my kids, but I'm way more open
when it comes to their mental health and they're like sexuality.
I just don't want them to ever feel ashamed or
body shaming or any of those things. Because I grew
up really aware of how to dress, what to wear,
even in my own house, close your legs up, like
(07:37):
it was just like I'm in my house, that's weird.
It was just really a lot of that kind of
you are. There's something about you that's like evil, and
it always has that.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Many Latinas are familiar with the Santa or Buddha complex
or the Virgin Horrde dichotomy. For Lilium, she knows these
archetypes are traps that anyone can fall into.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
And I think that also just plays up a lot
in what I write when it comes to sexuality. Either
you're the saint or the Putah, right, so you're that fun.
There's only the really thin line before that, so you
could easily fall into the Ba territory. And it doesn't
even matter. It's not even like a concern of the
men around you as predators, right, It's always just it's
(08:23):
on you, right, you must be doing something. And so
that's all across the board. When it comes to my family,
I don't want my kids to grow up like that.
I want them to be obviously protect themselves at all costs, right,
because predators are everywhere, But I also just don't want
them to be feel like shame of their body, to
(08:44):
like I'm constantly telling them they're beautiful, your body's beautiful,
all this stuff, because it wasn't raised that way. It
was really about covering yourself up, don't show too much skin,
go to church.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Lilian plans different activities for her daughters meant to celebrate
the beauty of the female body and are also meant
to break from the limitations Lilium was raised with.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
It took my kid to like nude painting, like the
beauty of a female body form. I'm just like just
be able to just break down these kind of limitations
that my family gave me when I was young, and
just it's almost like a rebirth right of Okay, I'm
going to take back these things that oh, your body's ugly. No,
I'm going to see these other bodies, or taking them
(09:28):
to Korean days, Korean spas and all those things. My god,
I would my mom would never never do that. And
now I just take my kid with me. It's nice
to be able to have that kind of hopefully break
that cycle.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Stay tuned, there's more to come.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Thanks for sticking around we are back.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
When Lilium entered her forties, she felt sexy, sexual and free.
She a tribute. It's this to more than just aging,
but also to being sober.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I feel like a late bloomer when it comes to sexuality,
and I think I was talking to someone over the weekend.
I was like, once I got into my forties, I
felt way more sexy and sexual and in a way
that I haven't in my thirties. And all of this,
I think has a lot to do also with my sobriety,
because I've been sober for over twenty five years, and
(10:26):
mosto my sobriety I think is linked was my horrible
sexual experiences. For some parts, it was always linked with alcohol,
but I've been sober for so long, so anyway, I
do feel really in my body. I would say, way
more than I've ever been.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
As Liliam gets older, she feels more grounded and secure.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I think it has to do with not giving a fuck.
I think it has to do with really reaching a
point where I feel really grounded in what I do,
what my skills are. I don't feel like I have
to rush to climb some sort of career ladder in
some way. I felt like a lot of my thirties
(11:06):
was really about what kind of job I could get,
how much money I was getting, and just continuously hustling
for a lot. And when I got to my forties,
I'm just I'm writing these books, and I'm really happy
with what I do, and I'm doing what I've always
wanted to do, which is there's something liberating about that,
and just really being aware of boundaries of what I
will and will not do. It's very easy to walk
(11:29):
away from things when you know it's not meant for you,
or when it's like toxic.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Lilium shows us the confidence that comes with aging is
a gift.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So when it comes to that, I feel that kind
of confidence just grows into more and more of how
I really love my body. It took me many, oh
my god, so many years of not really appreciating how
great I looked. I would spend so many years in
therapy just like trying to erase that script of oh
you're ugly, and for so many years wouldn't even look
(12:01):
in the mirror. And now I'm like, you know, no,
I look good. But it's also like it took so
many like therapy, it took a lot of just getting
over whatever it was that was. I'm assuming it's instilled
from my parents in way of this huge guilt of
who you are and you're not supposed to show anything.
You're supposed to cover up and be and live this
(12:23):
kind of pious life.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Lily m is also assertive in what she likes and
doesn't like in the bedroom.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Because I was so not I was submissive. I would
say when it comes to pleasure, right, I was like,
this was okay, I'll accept that. And now I don't
accept that. I'm very vocal and I'm very open to
trying new things, and I'm lucky that I have a
(12:51):
partner that's willing to try new things as well, and
who's not. I feel like sometimes maybe because he's Puerto
Rican too, so he was raised pretty much the same way,
Protestant and not Catholic. But we're in this journey together.
So it's been great because he's also been very open
and willing, which is perfect. But I do feel like
that has come easier now in my forties fifties, because
(13:16):
I'm just appreciated more. I just feel that's it. I
got this body, I got this life, and there's not
much time left, so I can't waste it like griping about,
oh my god, I wish I had I don't know,
longer hair or fuller lips or all those things. No judgment.
If I have money, I probably would be doing those
things too, fix it up. But it's just more like
(13:37):
appreciation of the beauty that I have and being really
excited about it. Like I have friends who are even
younger than me and are way more prudish, and I'm
always amazed by that because I'm just like.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
What, even though some of Lilium's friends may be less
open to talking about sex, Lilium makes space in her
friendships to have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Oh my gosh, exual, let's talk about sex. What those
girls in Sex with the City are the only ones
that were talking about sex. Everyone should be talking about it.
I am open about pornography, Like I watch pornography, and
I think it was recently I had dinner with some
friends and I was just like, yeah, the ladies. A
lot of people what they're doing now is they listen
to it, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So that's like.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Way discreet, way more discreet than just you know, seeing
videos or whatever. You could listen to it and they're
you know, I was like, you get a subscription, is great,
and then they were just like why, why why are
you telling us this. I was like, listen, I'm helping everybody.
This is a PSA.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Lilliam likes watching female directed pornography and is not ashamed
of it. She's open to it and wants her friends
to know it's fun to watch porn too.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I just think it's whatever helps right, that we shouldn't
be ashamed of it. And so I feel like even
if I bring it up and my friends are like laughing,
I feel like later on they're looking it up. But
this is this idea of I think some people are
still prudish about likeography and stuff like that, and I'm
I think it does matter to me, like what you're
(15:06):
into it, just if you're safe about it. I mean,
I like watching pornography. I usually watch pornography that's like
female directed pornography. I'm open to it because I'm just like,
it's easy for me. You can do it on the phone,
like you can just pop it up and it just helps.
And I also know it's just fantasy in a way.
(15:27):
It's just another tool to help sometimes. And but yeah,
I'm not appruvede in that sense.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
At her age, Lilliam is learning more about herself, her
sexuality as a sober person, and finding ways to take
care of her physical health.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I think again it has it's tied to how I
used alcohol to not let myself be so closed off.
I really believe that sexuality was only tied to being
drunk and really being blacked out drunk for the most part,
and I haven't had that. I haven't had a drink
a long time. I hadn't smoke in a long time.
And it takes a long it takes a really long
(16:04):
time for you to be able to be in your
own skin and not feel ashamed, but not even ashamed.
It's just the mechanics of even having sex was without
any kind of alcohol or drug was really it took
a really long time for that to be liberated. And
so then for me this year, this decade or forties
(16:27):
or fifty sixties, I just feel that it'll be the
same of more. It's just a matter of really taking
care of myself physically and just really being like taking
care of myself right because it's like I'm at that
age where it's like perimenopause. Bullshit, that's happening, And all
my friends are like, what's going on with your body?
This horror is going on, and just really trying to
(16:50):
like combat that and figure out ways of being able
to deal with that stuff, because doctors don't really care
or they don't know what's going on for the most part,
and so I'm really I spent a lot of time
just trying to make sure that I'm physically physically able
to continue to have a really good life.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Lilium. Sex talks with her kids continued to be commonplace.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
My twelve year old was like, I came, I went
away for a long time, and then I came back,
and of course my husband and I had a situation.
And then my twelve year old was like, the next day, Mom,
I heard some noises and I wasn't sure if you
were okay. And then I said, I was like, do
you want me to tell you the truth or do
(17:32):
you want me to not tell you the truth? She said,
I want to tell you truth. This is what's going on.
I'm been around for a while, and your father and
I had sexual relations. And then she goes, oh my god,
you're still having sex. I was so offended. I just
started laughing. I was like, what am I say? I
was like, girl, do you know how old time? I'm like,
I'm like, it's not the end. She has no idea
(17:54):
fifty four. She's just that salot.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Like many of our previous guests, Lilium feels is that
women of a certain age are made to be invisible.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
It's just like, you reach that age and I really
do believe you reach that age and you become this
invisible person. You're like, you do have experience, and we
respect you. We want you to come up and give
us your wisdom, but then we also want you to
go back to the shelf and stay there.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
As more conversations about perimenopause and menopause become mainstream, Liliam
hopes there's more resources and information available to anyone experiencing it.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
And I think that's shifting a little bit. I think
that has to do with I hate to say this,
but like a lot of celebrities talking about perimenopause and
menopause is bringing up this thing of it being out
there and not as like a secret thing that happens
to you. The change. It's so insane, and so I
think people speaking out about it more and more is
(18:50):
making it like this thing of all the horrors of it. Oh,
that's happening to you. This isn't happening to me. But
the great thing, one of the great things too, that's
happening in my group of women who are around this,
around my age, is that they are way more sexually
active and sexually liberated in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Despite what society may tell us. The sex does get
better as we age.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Way more sexually morning like all this stuff, and we're like,
is this because of perimedals? Like, girl, I hope, so
let it. Let's just keep going, let's ride this way.
But I just it's really interesting. I wonder if it
has again tied to this the confidence as well, like
you're experienced, but yeah, you just know exactly what you
want at this time you should hopefully you know, right,
(19:39):
And yeah, I'm like, it's really fun to talk to
my friends about it because because it really felt like
once you reach this like perimenopause menopause thing, that you're
that's it, that you're the dry up and that's the
end of it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
As we continue to have conversations like bees with guests
like Liliam. We hope that our interviews on Senora Sex
Said can contribute to an ongoing conversation and body of
work about Latina sexuality by elder Latinas like Cheri Moraga
and Souana. Lilium encourages us to read works on sex
(20:15):
and sexuality from elder Latinas to truly understand ourselves as
sexual beings.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
There's so many of our elders out there, Latinas who
have written like personal essays about sexuality, and I just
think that we should. Of course, I can't think of
the top of my head, but I feel if we
have our library of these resources, like it's not foreign,
this isn't no to us, even like Freakinguana Nus was
writing like hot poetry to God when we come from
(20:44):
along the history of like sexual beings.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I loved this interview with Lilium because she really taps
into the magic and sensuality of aging. We live in
a culture that really prioritizes youth and really sort of
chizes the beauty of youth well at the same time,
making older women almost invisible and de sext William talks
(21:08):
about feeling super sensual and free and sexier than ever
in her forties and fifties, and I think that that's
a beautiful way to approach aging and womanhood.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Next time on Senora Sex Said, we hear from mother
daughter duo Laura and Norma.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I made a face and she said to Vista Sex
and then I just nodded and I said see. And
I said see, and then she pauses. She stared at me.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
She goesma nos vemos ceo.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locata Productions
and Michael Dura Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and Theosa Fem.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Also executive produced by Jaselle Bances.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Produce used by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Story editing by Biosa Fem.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Music direction by Grisol Lomeli
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And music produced by Brian Gazzo.
Amiga. Do the kids still say popping your cherry? Well,
that's too bad.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senor, Hi, Senora, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
To Senora sex Ed Senora sex Said is not your
Mommy sex Talk. This show is la platica like you've
never heard it before. With each episode, we're breaking the
stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in LATINX communities.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously
denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between
Latinas from gen X to gen Z, covering everything from
puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Just a reminder that in this show, a Senora is
a woman with a lot of life experiences and stories
to share. Maybe she's in her thirties, Maybe she's in
her forties or fifties or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe
she sits.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokatra Radio.
Since twenty sixteen, we've covered all kinds of topics, ranging
from politics to mental health, current events, and of course sex.
We still have so much to learn, though, and we
hope you listen to each episode with the Senoras and
Senoritas in Your Life.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Chapter twenty pop by Cherry.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
I'm from the Bronx. So there there's always this thing,
this saying, oh, he popped my cherry. I don't know
if they do they say that.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
That's Liliam Rivera. She's a fifty four year old novelist.
She's written books for children, young adults, books, graphic novels,
and recently debuted her first adult novel, a fashion horror
book called Tiny Threads For Lilium.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Whoever popped your cherry was just the first step towards
something better, at least that's what she thought back then.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Yeah, so it was always this thing of whoever is
gonna pop your cherry is gonna It's just that one step,
the first step towards whatever sexual liberation is gonna be
after that, hopefully right. But it was really this thing of,
whoever's gonna pop my cherry, let's just get it over
with and do it. But I was ready in the
sense like I wanted it. I wanted to experience it,
(02:37):
and I also wanted to just get it over with
because I felt maybe even at that time, that I
knew it wasn't gonna be that good anyway, that is
going to take time for it to get better.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Lilium's first sexual experience was not great. It was good,
but not great, and eventually it did get better, but
she still carried guilt knowing her mother was disapprove. Lilliam
was raised Catholic and was taught that sex was not
allowed before marriage.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
It wasn't great, but I did feel like afterwards it
did progressively get better, which is good. But I also
felt a huge amount of guilt knowing that my mom, specifically,
I'm sure was disapproving of it all, even if she
didn't know anything.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Lilliam's intro to sex education was through her cousins who
lived in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I really learned about sexuality or even being like sensual
is really through my cousins because we all lived pretty
much around the same neighborhood. Everybody was so the only
the only places that we sorry, the only places that
we would hang out. Every we would all hang out together,
So it was always the family functions. Whose house was
(03:50):
gonna see what the boxing We're gonna go to this
person's house, lacking signette, whatever it was. We were all
partying together, drinking together, and getting all the information we
can from each other. But yeah, my parents, or my
mom specifically, really believes that you're supposed to not have
sex until you get married.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Once Lilliam became sexually active, she started birth control, but
because she was on her mother's health insurance, her mother
found out.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I'd say one of the big things, one of the
big revelations for me was when I was sexually active
and I had to get I had to talk to
her about insurance because I need to get on the pill,
and I had to tell her. And when I told her,
my mom started crying. She was just like, how could you.
(04:38):
I didn't raise you to sex, and she was just
really upset. God must have been seventeen, seventeen or eighteen. Yeah,
she was just really upset about it. But I was
I thought I was being very responsible. She didn't want
to hear about it.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
In early adulthood, Lilium was a journalist and edited a
piece about abortion stories. Her parents were deeply upset she'd
worked on that story because it was something they didn't support.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I remember one time I wrote and I edited a
piece of like people young Latinas or Latinas in general,
we're talking about their moments of their abortions, right, just
being really upfront about it. I remember my father looked
at the magazine and saw my byline said edited by
So it wasn't even like I was writing and say
(05:31):
but he was so upset, like so offended, like how
could you even talk about that? This is when we're
against this. And so it's just been really interesting because
maybe that's the reason why I left New York to
moved to La so I could raise my kids in
a different way.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation. Stay tuned, there's more
to come.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back. Lillium has two daughters.
Her eldest is twenty years old and her youngest is
twelve years old. Determined to do things differently, Lilium is
open about all things related to sex and sexual health.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Have two daughters, and the twenty year old as soon
as she got a boyfriend in high school, I was like,
we're going to go get you on the pill.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Raised in a different kind of household, Lilium wants her
daughters to come to her with anything.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
She want to be able to tell me stuff. But
it's so opposite of what my parents are. They don't
really talk about these kind of taboo things for them, Sexuality,
even queerness, all of that is very much under the rug,
and if it's against the religion, they don't really believe
in it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
When Lilliam's twelve year old daughter came out to her,
she armed herself with the resources needed to support her.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
My twelve year old came out, she came out to
me queer and then so then my job is really
to get her many as much resources that she feels comfortable.
So it's always been I've always been that type of
mother of what do you want to do? You want
to do this, Okay, let me figure out how to
do it. And I think that also is like coming
from my parents too, because they always they didn't have
enough money for anything, so it was just like, what
(07:14):
can we do that's free. So I still have that
same mentality with my kids, but I'm way more open
when it comes to their mental health and they're like sexuality.
I just don't want them to ever feel ashamed or
body shaming or any of those things. Because I grew
up really aware of how to dress, what to wear,
even in my own house, close your legs up, like
(07:37):
it was just like I'm in my house, that's weird.
It was just really a lot of that kind of
you are. There's something about you that's like evil, and
it always has that.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Many Latinas are familiar with the Santa or Buddha complex
or the Virgin Horrde dichotomy. For Lilium, she knows these
archetypes are traps that anyone can fall into.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
And I think that also just plays up a lot
in what I write when it comes to sexuality. Either
you're the saint or the Putah, right, so you're that fun.
There's only the really thin line before that, so you
could easily fall into the Ba territory. And it doesn't
even matter. It's not even like a concern of the
men around you as predators, right, It's always just it's
(08:23):
on you, right, you must be doing something. And so
that's all across the board. When it comes to my family,
I don't want my kids to grow up like that.
I want them to be obviously protect themselves at all costs, right,
because predators are everywhere, But I also just don't want
them to be feel like shame of their body, to
(08:44):
like I'm constantly telling them they're beautiful, your body's beautiful,
all this stuff, because it wasn't raised that way. It
was really about covering yourself up, don't show too much skin,
go to church.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Lilian plans different activities for her daughters meant to celebrate
the beauty of the female body and are also meant
to break from the limitations Lilium was raised with.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
It took my kid to like nude painting, like the
beauty of a female body form. I'm just like just
be able to just break down these kind of limitations
that my family gave me when I was young, and
just it's almost like a rebirth right of Okay, I'm
going to take back these things that oh, your body's ugly. No,
I'm going to see these other bodies, or taking them
(09:28):
to Korean days, Korean spas and all those things. My god,
I would my mom would never never do that. And
now I just take my kid with me. It's nice
to be able to have that kind of hopefully break
that cycle.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Stay tuned, there's more to come.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Thanks for sticking around we are back.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
When Lilium entered her forties, she felt sexy, sexual and free.
She a tribute. It's this to more than just aging,
but also to being sober.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I feel like a late bloomer when it comes to sexuality,
and I think I was talking to someone over the weekend.
I was like, once I got into my forties, I
felt way more sexy and sexual and in a way
that I haven't in my thirties. And all of this,
I think has a lot to do also with my sobriety,
because I've been sober for over twenty five years, and
(10:26):
mosto my sobriety I think is linked was my horrible
sexual experiences. For some parts, it was always linked with alcohol,
but I've been sober for so long, so anyway, I
do feel really in my body. I would say, way
more than I've ever been.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
As Liliam gets older, she feels more grounded and secure.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I think it has to do with not giving a fuck.
I think it has to do with really reaching a
point where I feel really grounded in what I do,
what my skills are. I don't feel like I have
to rush to climb some sort of career ladder in
some way. I felt like a lot of my thirties
(11:06):
was really about what kind of job I could get,
how much money I was getting, and just continuously hustling
for a lot. And when I got to my forties,
I'm just I'm writing these books, and I'm really happy
with what I do, and I'm doing what I've always
wanted to do, which is there's something liberating about that,
and just really being aware of boundaries of what I
will and will not do. It's very easy to walk
(11:29):
away from things when you know it's not meant for you,
or when it's like toxic.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Lilium shows us the confidence that comes with aging is
a gift.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So when it comes to that, I feel that kind
of confidence just grows into more and more of how
I really love my body. It took me many, oh
my god, so many years of not really appreciating how
great I looked. I would spend so many years in
therapy just like trying to erase that script of oh
you're ugly, and for so many years wouldn't even look
(12:01):
in the mirror. And now I'm like, you know, no,
I look good. But it's also like it took so
many like therapy, it took a lot of just getting
over whatever it was that was. I'm assuming it's instilled
from my parents in way of this huge guilt of
who you are and you're not supposed to show anything.
You're supposed to cover up and be and live this
(12:23):
kind of pious life.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Lily m is also assertive in what she likes and
doesn't like in the bedroom.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Because I was so not I was submissive. I would
say when it comes to pleasure, right, I was like,
this was okay, I'll accept that. And now I don't
accept that. I'm very vocal and I'm very open to
trying new things, and I'm lucky that I have a
(12:51):
partner that's willing to try new things as well, and
who's not. I feel like sometimes maybe because he's Puerto
Rican too, so he was raised pretty much the same way,
Protestant and not Catholic. But we're in this journey together.
So it's been great because he's also been very open
and willing, which is perfect. But I do feel like
that has come easier now in my forties fifties, because
(13:16):
I'm just appreciated more. I just feel that's it. I
got this body, I got this life, and there's not
much time left, so I can't waste it like griping about,
oh my god, I wish I had I don't know,
longer hair or fuller lips or all those things. No judgment.
If I have money, I probably would be doing those
things too, fix it up. But it's just more like
(13:37):
appreciation of the beauty that I have and being really
excited about it. Like I have friends who are even
younger than me and are way more prudish, and I'm
always amazed by that because I'm just like.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
What, even though some of Lilium's friends may be less
open to talking about sex, Lilium makes space in her
friendships to have these conversations.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Oh my gosh, exual, let's talk about sex. What those
girls in Sex with the City are the only ones
that were talking about sex. Everyone should be talking about it.
I am open about pornography, Like I watch pornography, and
I think it was recently I had dinner with some
friends and I was just like, yeah, the ladies. A
lot of people what they're doing now is they listen
to it, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So that's like.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Way discreet, way more discreet than just you know, seeing
videos or whatever. You could listen to it and they're
you know, I was like, you get a subscription, is great,
and then they were just like why, why why are
you telling us this. I was like, listen, I'm helping everybody.
This is a PSA.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Lilliam likes watching female directed pornography and is not ashamed
of it. She's open to it and wants her friends
to know it's fun to watch porn too.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I just think it's whatever helps right, that we shouldn't
be ashamed of it. And so I feel like even
if I bring it up and my friends are like laughing,
I feel like later on they're looking it up. But
this is this idea of I think some people are
still prudish about likeography and stuff like that, and I'm
I think it does matter to me, like what you're
(15:06):
into it, just if you're safe about it. I mean,
I like watching pornography. I usually watch pornography that's like
female directed pornography. I'm open to it because I'm just like,
it's easy for me. You can do it on the phone,
like you can just pop it up and it just helps.
And I also know it's just fantasy in a way.
(15:27):
It's just another tool to help sometimes. And but yeah,
I'm not appruvede in that sense.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
At her age, Lilliam is learning more about herself, her
sexuality as a sober person, and finding ways to take
care of her physical health.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
I think again it has it's tied to how I
used alcohol to not let myself be so closed off.
I really believe that sexuality was only tied to being
drunk and really being blacked out drunk for the most part,
and I haven't had that. I haven't had a drink
a long time. I hadn't smoke in a long time.
And it takes a long it takes a really long
(16:04):
time for you to be able to be in your
own skin and not feel ashamed, but not even ashamed.
It's just the mechanics of even having sex was without
any kind of alcohol or drug was really it took
a really long time for that to be liberated. And
so then for me this year, this decade or forties
(16:27):
or fifty sixties, I just feel that it'll be the
same of more. It's just a matter of really taking
care of myself physically and just really being like taking
care of myself right because it's like I'm at that
age where it's like perimenopause. Bullshit, that's happening, And all
my friends are like, what's going on with your body?
This horror is going on, and just really trying to
(16:50):
like combat that and figure out ways of being able
to deal with that stuff, because doctors don't really care
or they don't know what's going on for the most part,
and so I'm really I spent a lot of time
just trying to make sure that I'm physically physically able
to continue to have a really good life.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Lilium. Sex talks with her kids continued to be commonplace.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
My twelve year old was like, I came, I went
away for a long time, and then I came back,
and of course my husband and I had a situation.
And then my twelve year old was like, the next day, Mom,
I heard some noises and I wasn't sure if you
were okay. And then I said, I was like, do
you want me to tell you the truth or do
(17:32):
you want me to not tell you the truth? She said,
I want to tell you truth. This is what's going on.
I'm been around for a while, and your father and
I had sexual relations. And then she goes, oh my god,
you're still having sex. I was so offended. I just
started laughing. I was like, what am I say? I
was like, girl, do you know how old time? I'm like,
I'm like, it's not the end. She has no idea
(17:54):
fifty four. She's just that salot.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Like many of our previous guests, Lilium feels is that
women of a certain age are made to be invisible.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
It's just like, you reach that age and I really
do believe you reach that age and you become this
invisible person. You're like, you do have experience, and we
respect you. We want you to come up and give
us your wisdom, but then we also want you to
go back to the shelf and stay there.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
As more conversations about perimenopause and menopause become mainstream, Liliam
hopes there's more resources and information available to anyone experiencing it.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
And I think that's shifting a little bit. I think
that has to do with I hate to say this,
but like a lot of celebrities talking about perimenopause and
menopause is bringing up this thing of it being out
there and not as like a secret thing that happens
to you. The change. It's so insane, and so I
think people speaking out about it more and more is
(18:50):
making it like this thing of all the horrors of it. Oh,
that's happening to you. This isn't happening to me. But
the great thing, one of the great things too, that's
happening in my group of women who are around this,
around my age, is that they are way more sexually
active and sexually liberated in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Despite what society may tell us. The sex does get
better as we age.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Way more sexually morning like all this stuff, and we're like,
is this because of perimedals? Like, girl, I hope, so
let it. Let's just keep going, let's ride this way.
But I just it's really interesting. I wonder if it
has again tied to this the confidence as well, like
you're experienced, but yeah, you just know exactly what you
want at this time you should hopefully you know, right,
(19:39):
And yeah, I'm like, it's really fun to talk to
my friends about it because because it really felt like
once you reach this like perimenopause menopause thing, that you're
that's it, that you're the dry up and that's the
end of it.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
As we continue to have conversations like bees with guests
like Liliam. We hope that our interviews on Senora Sex
Said can contribute to an ongoing conversation and body of
work about Latina sexuality by elder Latinas like Cheri Moraga
and Souana. Lilium encourages us to read works on sex
(20:15):
and sexuality from elder Latinas to truly understand ourselves as
sexual beings.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
There's so many of our elders out there, Latinas who
have written like personal essays about sexuality, and I just
think that we should. Of course, I can't think of
the top of my head, but I feel if we
have our library of these resources, like it's not foreign,
this isn't no to us, even like Freakinguana Nus was
writing like hot poetry to God when we come from
(20:44):
along the history of like sexual beings.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
I loved this interview with Lilium because she really taps
into the magic and sensuality of aging. We live in
a culture that really prioritizes youth and really sort of
chizes the beauty of youth well at the same time,
making older women almost invisible and de sext William talks
(21:08):
about feeling super sensual and free and sexier than ever
in her forties and fifties, and I think that that's
a beautiful way to approach aging and womanhood.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Next time on Senora Sex Said, we hear from mother
daughter duo Laura and Norma.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I made a face and she said to Vista Sex
and then I just nodded and I said see. And
I said see, and then she pauses. She stared at me.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
She goesma nos vemos ceo.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locata Productions
and Michael Dura Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and Theosa Fem.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Also executive produced by Jaselle Bances.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Produce used by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Story editing by Biosa Fem.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Music direction by Grisol Lomeli
Speaker 1 (22:09):
And music produced by Brian Gazzo.
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