February 5, 2025 • 32 mins
In this week's episode, Diosa and Mala are joined by Mari, a queer Latina who shares her love for kink. Mari shares how she her interest in kink was peaked by watching telenovelas and playing with dolls. Mari believes kink is for everyone if practiced safely and consensually.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Senora Senora, Senora, Senora, Hi Senora, Welcome to Senora.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Sex Ed.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Senora Sex Said is not your Mommy's sex Talk. This
show is la platica like you've never heard it before.
With each episode, we're breaking the stigma and silence around
sex and sexuality in LATINX communities.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously
denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between
Latinas from gen X to gen Z, covering everything from
puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Just a reminder that in this show, a Senora is
a woman with a lot of life experiences and stories
to share. Maybe she's thirty, maybe she's forty, she's fifty
or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe she sis.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokata Radio.
Since twenty sixteen, we've covered all kinds of topics, ranging
from politics to mental health, current events, and of course sex.
We still have so much to learn and we hope
you listen to each episode with the Senoras and Senoritas
in your life. Chapter twenty five, Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Today,
(01:44):
we're in conversation with Madi. She's calling in anonymously to
discuss her personal experiences with kink, how she found a
kink community, and how to safely dabble with kink.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm Muddie and I am a queer switch Ben involved
in the king community. I am calling from Los Angeles,
which is where I grew up. I'm not going to
make sure I'm not like a teacher. I'm not an educator.
I'm not a professional in any way. I'm just a
little pervert just finding my way.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Can you talk about being a self identified a pervert.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I grew up Catholic, like a lot of my LATINX
family growing up Catholic, so I grew up with a
lot of shame around sexual expression, to the point where,
like I didn't even really accept that I was queer
until I was a little bit older, and so embracing
(02:56):
the pervert label just kind of gives me the freedom
to go, Yes, this is part of the human expression.
This is what I enjoy with other people who also
enjoy doing that with me. So to me, it's very liberating,
and I'm also kind of a goofy, silly person. So
I also, it's a little cheeky.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Senora Sex said, and we ask all of our guests,
what was your introduction to sex education?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So elementary school was a very basic like separate the
girls from the boys, and they teach the girls about menstruation,
and they teach the boys about whatever it is they
teach the boys. I wasn't in that section in middle school.
That's when California temporarily or I don't know if that's
still the case because I'm not in school anymore. But
at the time, they weren't allowed to teach anything besides
(03:45):
absence and only education. So some schools got around it
by inviting a special speaker after school because technically it
wasn't the school doing it, or they would invite a
special speaker into the classroom for that health section, so
it would be usually someone from Planned Parenthood covering some
of the basics about you know, consent, ASTDS, pregnancy prevention.
(04:12):
I did have one teacher in seventh grade who was
totally like a weird conservative Christian who was like, the
reason I became a health teacher was to teach teenagers
sex ed and invited an absence only like activists. I
guess to come in and have assign these like promise
cards in exchange for like a pin. So that was weird.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Do you remember what your reaction or what you were
maybe you and your peers were thinking during that time.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I'm an immigrant, My parents are immigrants, so when they
send me to public school, they say, you know, like
be quiet and pay attention and follow the instructions and
that's it. So I was never raised to like ask
anything or question anything the teacher was telling me. I
was like, Okay, I guess we're signing these today. But
I remember during lunch I was talking to my best
friend and she was like, no, don't I had sign that.
(05:06):
That's creepy. Why would they send someone to school? And
that was the first time someone even positive the idea
of like not doing absence only to me, and I
was just like, oh, I guess that is weird. But
I didn't have an alternative, so I was like, I
wanted the pin, and it's on my backpack. Now I
don't have I don't know where it is now, but
(05:26):
I did have it on my backpack for like that
whole year.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
It sounds like from the stories we've we've heard from
our guests is that their mothers didn't want them to
have sex, right, they didn't want them to have become
teen moms, but they also weren't telling them how to
prevent getting pregnant. So do you find that to be
true in your experience where there was this like you knew,
(05:50):
like I can't get pregnant young, but I'm also not
getting the information to how not to get pregnant. Was
abstinence just the expectation.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
My mom did say, you know, there's so much technology
now to not get pregnant, Like she said she would
take me to the clinic if I were to go
to the clinic, but I could tell that she really
didn't want to. But she was like, there's just so
much stuff. There's like a pill, there's condoms, there's phones
and gels, like you do not need to get pregnant,
Like you can get stuff that you need, just don't
(06:22):
do it, but also don't have sex. So it was
a little bit of push and pull, like I could tell,
like because because she grew up super religious and her grandma,
you know, my grandma and her mom never talked to
her about it at all. So the fact that she
was even like doing as much as she did. I
respect that she went out of her comfort zone trying
to keep me safe. It wasn't as much as I
(06:44):
would have liked, but I do appreciate what she tried
to do.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So growing up then and maturing, do you recall, like
when you started to really explore your sexuality your body
and when you started to become sexually active and did
your mom know? Did you tell your mom? Was it
a secret you kept from your mom? How did all
of that unfold?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I know for me because I grew up so Catholic
and like freaked out about sex. I was like, I'm
not having sex unless like I'm dating someone for like
at least a year, like that's how I know they'll
stay with me. And so my boyfriend at the time,
my high school boyfriend and I went to the same college,
so that sort of won't start exploring. And we've been
dating over a year by then, so I was just like, whoa,
(07:31):
let's go. But yeah, I did not say anything. You
didn't say anything, even like I remember, even when I
was in my thirties, like I forgot if it was
my mom or my dad that jokingly said something about
me having sex, and I was like, no, I just
hold hands. I don't do that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
So between you, you know, exploring with your first boyfriend
and maybe going through college and just exploring yourself, at
what point were you introduced to Kinck. We hope you're
enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Stay tuned, there's more to come.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Right. So other people in the king community, we all
kind of jokingly asked, not jokingly, but we do kind
of refer to it as like our quote quote awakening,
Like what was the moment in your life that you're like, oh,
this is something interesting for me. It was mya was
watching like a telenovela. I can't remember which one it was,
(08:41):
but the main character she was like a rich lady
like every main character, and she had been kidnapped by
two men for ransom, and they took her to this
little shack and they tied her up with roast to
like a chair. She had like a gag, and they
were like, we're gonna get ransom from you for you
(09:01):
because you're so rich, so we're just gonna let everybody
know that we have you. Whatever. More than noveda story
that I don't remember, but I remember that scene because
I was like, oh, I feel funny, that's weird, uh,
And I think it's adorable for me that it was
from TLEVELA because a lot of my my white friends
(09:22):
in the community like to cite the Robin Hood Disney
animated movie where Robin Hood is like tied up with
ropes and like led around on chains, so like mine
is such like a brown version of that that would
only happen if you have Belita was watching like telenovelas
all the time, and it wasn't the only novela where
people will get tied up and help for ransom, like
it happens a lot.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
In So question when you saw that, did you want
to be the one tied up or the one doing
the tying?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So of course I'm tying up my barbies after that,
because that's what we do with barbiees. All my barbies
were lesbians, all of them were. I don't think I
had any boy barbies, but I didn't mind. I was like,
I can date each other. I was tied up my
dolls for like ages after that. I was little when
I saw that.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And did anyone ask did like your parents ask you
like why are you tying up your barbie dolls? Did
anyone notice or did they like, let you do your thing?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know, everybody is so busy, you know, working to
just kind of like keep us going. People just kind
of like left me alone. I was a little neglected
as a kid. Not in a section, but just like
during the day, I just kind of did whatever I wanted.
One time, a classmate came over after school just to
hang out. You know, your friends are like, hey, let's
(10:40):
come over and hang out. I tied her to a
tree with rope and I was like, let's see if
you can get out of this rope. Her mom was
so mad. She was never allowed over at my house again.
Nobody noticed it happened. I was trying to see if
my friend could get out of the ropes, and she couldn't,
so I untied her and I was like, okay, do
me tighten me up. And I couldn't get out of
(11:02):
the ropes, and then we moved on to some other game.
But I guess she told her mom because her mom like,
she was never allowed in my house ever again.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
So that is interesting though, because it's you weren't. I
feel like, maybe if you had been scolded, then maybe
it would have driven you away from it, you know,
like children react to two different things, but not so
did you keep tying things like did you feel emboldened?
Did you feel comfortable? Did you explore more?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Like like I would tie people's like sweater sleeves together
and be like, see, you can get out of like
your sweater, Like we kind of jokingly pretend it's like
a straight jacket. You're like, can get out of your sweater,
and I'm like, oh, you can't get out of the
untie them. But I would just like keep doing stuff
like that. I mean, obviously with friends who are like, sure,
let's go. Not I didn't like type people up that
didn't want to be tied up.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And at what point in your adulthood did you look
back on younger self and think like, oh, okay, wait
a second. There was a part of me that was
already exploring, like what where do you remember what you
were doing? How old you were when you like connected
those dots.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It wasn't till I found like an in person kid
community that I started connecting those dots funny enough, I
was just like, oh, just stuff you do when you
grow up, and then you meet other people, and it's like, no,
nobody does.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That tell us about going into your first in person
king community event.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
In twenty twenty, I found a discord that was run
by with like a queer POC focus, and so once
it kind of got safe to like get meet up
in person again, I'd started going to those events and
that was fun because then it finally felt like, Okay,
this is not like this is a safe space, like
(12:48):
everyone is like pro queer, everyone is like around the
same age or not all of us are brown, most
of us are brown or like you know, anti racist.
So that was really nice and comfortable because you know,
it's such a kink space is such a like vulnerable
(13:13):
space to be in. You really want to feel safe
with the other people you're with. So I didn't really
start going to like in person events until very recently.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Can you talk more about the importance of maybe for
a person of color, a queer person of color, finding
safety in like kink of color spaces, you know, like
I want to hear you say more like why that's important?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So for me, my college boyfriend that I mentioned before,
he was white and very liberal, you know, so that
was what it is. And so what kind of started
giving me pause is the more kind of like pink
(14:05):
play we would do. He eventually started making like trying
to like tiptoe into like race play, which is which
is like a big no no for me, Like I
will not do that. But he was like, hey, do
you want to pretend that you're like a maid? And
I was like, excuse me, absolutely not, no, that sounds horrible. No,
(14:25):
and so, but he couldn't understand why it was fucked up,
and even asked and no amount of explaining would make
him understand. He's like, well, you know, I'm not racist.
I'm just like wondering what's the big deal, And I'm
just like, it's exhausting I have to explain something like
that to someone. So being in a like POC centered
(14:48):
kink space, you can sort of reduce the probability that
something like that's gonna happen because it is emotionally exhausting.
You are trying to do something that is you know,
fun for yourself and find community with other people. And
if someone's going to try to make you explain why
(15:09):
it's racist to put all these like racialized expectations on
someone just because of the race. So like you don't
want to deal with that, like, that's wh why I'm here.
I'm not here to teach you.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation. Stay tuned, there's more
to come.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back. I know you
talked about you had this interest in bondage starting from
when you were young, but once you actually joined a
kink community and started exploring, how did you figure out
what it is that you really liked and what it
is you absolutely weren't interested in participating in.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So I am a big nerd. I literally went online
to like read lists of kings and going like that
sounds fine, I don't know what that is. Let me
look into that. Oh no, not for me, absolutely not,
or like, oh that's what that's called. I didn't know
that was the thing. So I kind of just went
through and made note of things. I was interested in,
(16:14):
things that sounded fun, things that did not sound good
at all. I did always know that I was witchy like.
And so for people who aren't familiar with the lingo,
there's like everybody knows everybody thinks of like a domina
sub right, which in and everybody uses different words, which
(16:35):
can also be referred to as like a top or
a bottom, and that there's a switch. A switch is
someone that can do either or and sometimes the switch
will lean more top or lean more bottom. For me,
it depends on the partner that I'm with. I might
be more toppy, more bottomy. If I'm playing with someone
that's like just the top, I'll be like, Okay, I
guess that's just that's I'm the other half of this puzzle.
(17:00):
Current girlfriend and I were both switches, so it's great, fantastic,
we can take turns. So just literally experimenting, like like
any hobby, you try stuff, you figure out what works
for you, and sometimes something that won't work with one
partner works with another partner because you just have a
different vibe. So you just you just keep exploring and
(17:22):
keep communicating communications super super key.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, what would you say, are maybe some stereotypes or
misconceptions of kink or anything you want to debunk about kink.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But there's always older men who will say, like, I'm
an expert, dom I'm gonna be You're a master. You
have to do everything I say. And so people who
are you know, who want a sub or who want
a bottom coming into the king community and that don't know.
They'll be like, okay, I guess this is how it works,
like no, no, no, no, absolutely not this. You have
(17:58):
to negotiate, You need to communicate, You need to get
to know somebody, Like I have a friend who literally
negotiated for a year with somebody before they agreed to
play with them. Like that's how like nitty gritty they
got into it. So that's for someone they wanted to
(18:19):
be like a continuing play partner with. There are play
parties where it's just sort of like pickup we call
pickup play because you just play that one time and
you leave and there's still negotiation. You don't just like
walk up to somebody and start like slapping them around,
like someone will hang out by like some kind of
like furniture or tools, and then you just kind of
(18:41):
go up to them and go like hi, like any place, Hi,
nice to meet you. What's your name? How are you
doing tonight? Like what are you interested in? I'm interested
in this? And you figure something out like what are
your limits? The The sort of traditional safe word is red.
You use this traffic lights like green yellow red green
(19:03):
is like cool, more of that yellow as paused, the
take a breather red is like drop everything, stop immediately,
and then you also check in about aftercare, like do
you want aftercare? What do you like? Some people like
cuddling after some people like a nice drink, a nice treat.
So there is so much communication an agreement that has
(19:25):
to happen before anything that had Just anytime I hear
about somebody just like busting out with like online with
like I'm your master and you're gonna do everything I want,
I'm gonna say it's like that is abusive. Do not
do that.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
As we're talking about kink and your participation, just like
generally for our listeners, like what are the considerations there
for you?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
In a lot of counties and states, what you can
do in kink can be considered illegal, can be considered battery.
Even if it's something two adults agreed to, are happy
to do, excited to do in the privacy of their
own home on their own time, like, it can still
(20:08):
be a jailable offense. Sometimes it'll affect a person's career.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
And I feel like there might be an idea out
there that people who participate in the kink space are
like degenerates on the margins of society, you know, but
in your experience, like folks who like kink, where are
they coming from?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You have white collar executives, you have people in the
legal fields, medical fields. You have artists, musicians, baristas, you know,
Amazon delivery people, feedecs, ware house workers, literally literally every
single walk of life.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I realized that as we conduct the interview, there's some
terminology that maybe our listeners won't all be familiar with. So,
I mean, even the term kink. How would you define
kink the idea of playing or finding a play partner? Like,
how do you define play in this context? A vocatalyst,
(21:18):
yeses a terminology review, kink.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Would be anything that sort of goes outside of the
expectation of what sex is supposed to be. So, I know,
in the in the eighties, there were some movements saying that,
like queer sex was inherently kinky because it goes against
the grain. Nowadays that's not so much the case. Now
(21:44):
it's just anything that has like a special special outside
of the norm. Something is I know, like a foot
fetish is like a very mainstream sort of kink that
people are familiar with, to the point where it's like
kind of a joke like well, guess I'm gonna have
to sell speak fix for this trip or whatever. But
(22:07):
then they can also get really specific, like being into
playing with food or playing with electricity, and then so
like electricity is like one of those that's very technical
that you need to take a class on. Dungeons won't
offer classes for movies, so it's very important to not
(22:31):
just do something that's dangerous without getting training on that.
Play partner playing, So it's a lot like like scripting
a play scripting a scene. We do call them scenes.
Before you have a scene with somebody which is just you,
even another perfect getting together, you do talk about it
(22:53):
like what are you interested in, You find your common interests,
you agree on what you're gonna do, what kind of
boys you are okay with using, and then you play.
So we call it playing because it's fun. You get
to it is a make believe space like no, you're
(23:16):
not really a teacher, and no you're not really a student.
Like we're playing, we're wearing costumes, we have toys, we're
pretending there's a script. So a play partner would be
someone that you play with. And then not all kink
has sex involved. Sometimes people just like the kinky aspect
that's alsophy. It's called a play partner and not necessarily
(23:39):
like a partner that you're sleeping with or having sex with,
because it is separate some people, just like the play aspect.
There's there's no way I can list all kinds of kikes.
But but a kink to me, I would define it's
just anything outside of the mainstream, anything outside of the expected.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
And so I'm wondering, in your perspective and someone in
the community, what are the benefits of maybe survivors participating
in kink.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I am myself a survivor, and so what I like
about kink is the amount of control, like nothing unexpected
is going to happen, because you and your partner already
went over like everything, and you trust your partner to
stop when you say stop, like I have, you know,
when on top of a scene, I have had partners
you know call out red or wait, hould on a
(24:31):
second and drop everything, immediately, drop the persona like you okay,
what do you mean? Like what's going on? Like immediate
care mode. And it's a safe space to explore things
that would be ordinarily dangerous without any kind of like
oversyc like ropes can be dangerous. I know everybody sees
movies and think yay ropes, which, yes, yay ropes. Especially
(24:54):
for me, that's like one of my favorite things. But
it is something that you need to be trained on,
take classes on. There are points on the body that
if you restrict them for too long, it can affect
your nerves. There's places you shouldn't cut, there's place shirts
shouldn't tighten on, there's places you know, there's all kinds
of things going on. It also depends on the health
of a person. So for survivors, it's great because you
(25:18):
really get an immense amount of control. You know, whether
you're a top or a bottom or a switch like me,
you feel really safe because you're not worried about like, oh,
this person's going to suddenly do something that's going to
hurt me in a way that I don't want. Right Like,
if they hurt me, it's because I asked for it
(25:38):
and we're both into it and it feels awsome, So
it is awesome for me. I would even recommend negotiations
and like red, yellow, green, sort of safe words to
people who engage in vanilla play because it's also I
think everybody should. And I feel like my friends who
(25:59):
are the KING community are just better communicators overall because
we're doing a lot of check ins like oh, hey, like,
do you have space for me an event about my day?
If not, that's cool because like we're very good about
checking in. You know, it's not personal. When someone's like
I really can't right now, it's like, okay, cool. So
for survivors, I think there's a lot of survivors who
(26:23):
participate in kink, and I know for me personally, it's
probably some of the safest, most fulfilling sex I've ever had.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
So do you also put out the call on our
social media chant accounts to like find somebody who would
be down to come on the show and be interviewed.
So why was it important for you or why were
you willing or excited to come on the show to
talk about this topic.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
But I really want to see more Latina representation in
the KING community. It is, like I mentioned before, a
very white, hetero space. I'm a fear Latina, So I'm
neither of those things. We are out here, even in
the kink community that I've been to in the POC spaces,
(27:15):
I don't see a lot of like fem latinas like me.
So when we do see each other, we're like, oh hey,
Like we do kind of keep tasking each other and
go like, oh hey, it's you again. So I think
it's important to just show we're out here, we're doing
our thing. We're perverted just like the rest of them,
and you know that it's fun.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
What do you think the access to like kink education
looks like for people? Sex AD is already hard enough
to obtain. How hard is it to access like good,
thorough accurate kink education And where should people be looking.
You mentioned a couple books, but I'm just wondering generally,
where should people look for reliable sources.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I think this is part of the reason the kink
community it's also still predominantly hetero and white, is that
a lot of the education will be at dungeons, and
dungeons charge money for memberships, they charge money for classes.
There are classes you can find online, but they also
charge money, and so I feel like that is a barrier.
(28:19):
But they're as more brown people get access to podcasts,
to media, to zoom to things like the internet. You know,
we offer classes, I say we as brown people in general,
not me specifically, but we offer classes at a lower
price point just because I mean, brown people just like
(28:45):
make less money than white people right now, Queer people
make less money than straight people do right now. Some
of the mainstream dungeons will have sighting scales or like
bipoc fees, or will let you have a free ticket
to a class if you just say, like, hey, I
just I can't afford this class, and like you email them,
can I just get in for free?
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Please?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
A lot of times if you just ask, they will
they'll be like okay, sure. So it is there is
a barrier of entry, and I don't like that you
have to ask for the free ticket because that's also
another barrier for people. So it is difficult, but it
is out there. It is on the internet. Go to
your local munches, your local dungeons. If you go to
(29:27):
event bright, you can find munches in your local area.
Event Bright will have you know, munch at Denny's, munch
at whatever bar, and then just kind of start asking
the locals what they do and where they go, because
again there is a need for anonymity because it is
it can't affect people's income, people's families, So it's not
(29:50):
the most it's not the easiest thing to find, but
it is out there. Once you kind of know to
look for a munch to meet people, they can give
classes or if you just make really good friends with
someone who's been around for a long time, like sometimes
they'll be willing to teach you, go like, hey, yeah,
like I've been teaching rope, I'll teach you a couple
of things. Something like rope requires a lot of practice too,
(30:15):
Like you have to practice at somebody. It is there
is a barrier to entry. So that's why I recommend
just things you can do at home. Talk like dirty talk,
use your hands, use tools you get the nine Night
sen store, like hair brushes, clothes pins.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Do you have any final thoughts or any like wrap
up that you want to share before we sign off?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Keep getting browner and weirder, queer, think you're and more perverted.
Just let your freak flag fly out there.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
What I learned from Maddie is that anyone can explore kink.
It takes a lot of communication and trust, and that
we can all be better communicators when it comes to
what we like and what we want to explore. Next
(31:11):
time on Senora Sex Said. We're joined by comedian Danielle.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Berez nos vemos c Cao.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locata Productions
and Michael Dura Podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and theos FM.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Also executive produced by Jasell.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Fances, produced by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Story editing by the Asafem.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Music direction by Grisol Lomeli and.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Music produced by Brian Gazzo.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Local Columbia
Senora Senora, Senora, Senora, Hi Senora, Welcome to Senora.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Sex Ed.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Senora Sex Said is not your Mommy's sex Talk. This
show is la platica like you've never heard it before.
With each episode, we're breaking the stigma and silence around
sex and sexuality in LATINX communities.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Latinas have been hyper sexualized in popular culture, but notoriously
denied sex education. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between
Latinas from gen X to gen Z, covering everything from
puberty and body image to representation in film, television, and music.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Just a reminder that in this show, a Senora is
a woman with a lot of life experiences and stories
to share. Maybe she's thirty, maybe she's forty, she's fifty
or older. Maybe she's trans, maybe she sis.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
We are your hosts and producers, Viosa and Mala.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
You might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Lokata Radio.
Since twenty sixteen, we've covered all kinds of topics, ranging
from politics to mental health, current events, and of course sex.
We still have so much to learn and we hope
you listen to each episode with the Senoras and Senoritas
in your life. Chapter twenty five, Safe, Sane, and Consensual. Today,
(01:44):
we're in conversation with Madi. She's calling in anonymously to
discuss her personal experiences with kink, how she found a
kink community, and how to safely dabble with kink.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I'm Muddie and I am a queer switch Ben involved
in the king community. I am calling from Los Angeles,
which is where I grew up. I'm not going to
make sure I'm not like a teacher. I'm not an educator.
I'm not a professional in any way. I'm just a
little pervert just finding my way.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Can you talk about being a self identified a pervert.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I grew up Catholic, like a lot of my LATINX
family growing up Catholic, so I grew up with a
lot of shame around sexual expression, to the point where,
like I didn't even really accept that I was queer
until I was a little bit older, and so embracing
(02:56):
the pervert label just kind of gives me the freedom
to go, Yes, this is part of the human expression.
This is what I enjoy with other people who also
enjoy doing that with me. So to me, it's very liberating,
and I'm also kind of a goofy, silly person. So
I also, it's a little cheeky.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Senora Sex said, and we ask all of our guests,
what was your introduction to sex education?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So elementary school was a very basic like separate the
girls from the boys, and they teach the girls about menstruation,
and they teach the boys about whatever it is they
teach the boys. I wasn't in that section in middle school.
That's when California temporarily or I don't know if that's
still the case because I'm not in school anymore. But
at the time, they weren't allowed to teach anything besides
(03:45):
absence and only education. So some schools got around it
by inviting a special speaker after school because technically it
wasn't the school doing it, or they would invite a
special speaker into the classroom for that health section, so
it would be usually someone from Planned Parenthood covering some
of the basics about you know, consent, ASTDS, pregnancy prevention.
(04:12):
I did have one teacher in seventh grade who was
totally like a weird conservative Christian who was like, the
reason I became a health teacher was to teach teenagers
sex ed and invited an absence only like activists. I
guess to come in and have assign these like promise
cards in exchange for like a pin. So that was weird.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Do you remember what your reaction or what you were
maybe you and your peers were thinking during that time.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I'm an immigrant, My parents are immigrants, so when they
send me to public school, they say, you know, like
be quiet and pay attention and follow the instructions and
that's it. So I was never raised to like ask
anything or question anything the teacher was telling me. I
was like, Okay, I guess we're signing these today. But
I remember during lunch I was talking to my best
friend and she was like, no, don't I had sign that.
(05:06):
That's creepy. Why would they send someone to school? And
that was the first time someone even positive the idea
of like not doing absence only to me, and I
was just like, oh, I guess that is weird. But
I didn't have an alternative, so I was like, I
wanted the pin, and it's on my backpack. Now I
don't have I don't know where it is now, but
(05:26):
I did have it on my backpack for like that
whole year.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
It sounds like from the stories we've we've heard from
our guests is that their mothers didn't want them to
have sex, right, they didn't want them to have become
teen moms, but they also weren't telling them how to
prevent getting pregnant. So do you find that to be
true in your experience where there was this like you knew,
(05:50):
like I can't get pregnant young, but I'm also not
getting the information to how not to get pregnant. Was
abstinence just the expectation.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
My mom did say, you know, there's so much technology
now to not get pregnant, Like she said she would
take me to the clinic if I were to go
to the clinic, but I could tell that she really
didn't want to. But she was like, there's just so
much stuff. There's like a pill, there's condoms, there's phones
and gels, like you do not need to get pregnant,
Like you can get stuff that you need, just don't
(06:22):
do it, but also don't have sex. So it was
a little bit of push and pull, like I could tell,
like because because she grew up super religious and her grandma,
you know, my grandma and her mom never talked to
her about it at all. So the fact that she
was even like doing as much as she did. I
respect that she went out of her comfort zone trying
to keep me safe. It wasn't as much as I
(06:44):
would have liked, but I do appreciate what she tried
to do.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So growing up then and maturing, do you recall, like
when you started to really explore your sexuality your body
and when you started to become sexually active and did
your mom know? Did you tell your mom? Was it
a secret you kept from your mom? How did all
of that unfold?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I know for me because I grew up so Catholic
and like freaked out about sex. I was like, I'm
not having sex unless like I'm dating someone for like
at least a year, like that's how I know they'll
stay with me. And so my boyfriend at the time,
my high school boyfriend and I went to the same college,
so that sort of won't start exploring. And we've been
dating over a year by then, so I was just like, whoa,
(07:31):
let's go. But yeah, I did not say anything. You
didn't say anything, even like I remember, even when I
was in my thirties, like I forgot if it was
my mom or my dad that jokingly said something about
me having sex, and I was like, no, I just
hold hands. I don't do that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
So between you, you know, exploring with your first boyfriend
and maybe going through college and just exploring yourself, at
what point were you introduced to Kinck. We hope you're
enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Stay tuned, there's more to come.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Right. So other people in the king community, we all
kind of jokingly asked, not jokingly, but we do kind
of refer to it as like our quote quote awakening,
Like what was the moment in your life that you're like, oh,
this is something interesting for me. It was mya was
watching like a telenovela. I can't remember which one it was,
(08:41):
but the main character she was like a rich lady
like every main character, and she had been kidnapped by
two men for ransom, and they took her to this
little shack and they tied her up with roast to
like a chair. She had like a gag, and they
were like, we're gonna get ransom from you for you
(09:01):
because you're so rich, so we're just gonna let everybody
know that we have you. Whatever. More than noveda story
that I don't remember, but I remember that scene because
I was like, oh, I feel funny, that's weird, uh,
And I think it's adorable for me that it was
from TLEVELA because a lot of my my white friends
(09:22):
in the community like to cite the Robin Hood Disney
animated movie where Robin Hood is like tied up with
ropes and like led around on chains, so like mine
is such like a brown version of that that would
only happen if you have Belita was watching like telenovelas
all the time, and it wasn't the only novela where
people will get tied up and help for ransom, like
it happens a lot.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
In So question when you saw that, did you want
to be the one tied up or the one doing
the tying?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So of course I'm tying up my barbies after that,
because that's what we do with barbiees. All my barbies
were lesbians, all of them were. I don't think I
had any boy barbies, but I didn't mind. I was like,
I can date each other. I was tied up my
dolls for like ages after that. I was little when
I saw that.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And did anyone ask did like your parents ask you
like why are you tying up your barbie dolls? Did
anyone notice or did they like, let you do your thing?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know, everybody is so busy, you know, working to
just kind of like keep us going. People just kind
of like left me alone. I was a little neglected
as a kid. Not in a section, but just like
during the day, I just kind of did whatever I wanted.
One time, a classmate came over after school just to
hang out. You know, your friends are like, hey, let's
(10:40):
come over and hang out. I tied her to a
tree with rope and I was like, let's see if
you can get out of this rope. Her mom was
so mad. She was never allowed over at my house again.
Nobody noticed it happened. I was trying to see if
my friend could get out of the ropes, and she couldn't,
so I untied her and I was like, okay, do
me tighten me up. And I couldn't get out of
(11:02):
the ropes, and then we moved on to some other game.
But I guess she told her mom because her mom like,
she was never allowed in my house ever again.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
So that is interesting though, because it's you weren't. I
feel like, maybe if you had been scolded, then maybe
it would have driven you away from it, you know,
like children react to two different things, but not so
did you keep tying things like did you feel emboldened?
Did you feel comfortable? Did you explore more?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Like like I would tie people's like sweater sleeves together
and be like, see, you can get out of like
your sweater, Like we kind of jokingly pretend it's like
a straight jacket. You're like, can get out of your sweater,
and I'm like, oh, you can't get out of the
untie them. But I would just like keep doing stuff
like that. I mean, obviously with friends who are like, sure,
let's go. Not I didn't like type people up that
didn't want to be tied up.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
And at what point in your adulthood did you look
back on younger self and think like, oh, okay, wait
a second. There was a part of me that was
already exploring, like what where do you remember what you
were doing? How old you were when you like connected
those dots.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It wasn't till I found like an in person kid
community that I started connecting those dots funny enough, I
was just like, oh, just stuff you do when you
grow up, and then you meet other people, and it's like, no,
nobody does.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
That tell us about going into your first in person
king community event.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
In twenty twenty, I found a discord that was run
by with like a queer POC focus, and so once
it kind of got safe to like get meet up
in person again, I'd started going to those events and
that was fun because then it finally felt like, Okay,
this is not like this is a safe space, like
(12:48):
everyone is like pro queer, everyone is like around the
same age or not all of us are brown, most
of us are brown or like you know, anti racist.
So that was really nice and comfortable because you know,
it's such a kink space is such a like vulnerable
(13:13):
space to be in. You really want to feel safe
with the other people you're with. So I didn't really
start going to like in person events until very recently.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Can you talk more about the importance of maybe for
a person of color, a queer person of color, finding
safety in like kink of color spaces, you know, like
I want to hear you say more like why that's important?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So for me, my college boyfriend that I mentioned before,
he was white and very liberal, you know, so that
was what it is. And so what kind of started
giving me pause is the more kind of like pink
(14:05):
play we would do. He eventually started making like trying
to like tiptoe into like race play, which is which
is like a big no no for me, Like I
will not do that. But he was like, hey, do
you want to pretend that you're like a maid? And
I was like, excuse me, absolutely not, no, that sounds horrible. No,
(14:25):
and so, but he couldn't understand why it was fucked up,
and even asked and no amount of explaining would make
him understand. He's like, well, you know, I'm not racist.
I'm just like wondering what's the big deal, And I'm
just like, it's exhausting I have to explain something like
that to someone. So being in a like POC centered
(14:48):
kink space, you can sort of reduce the probability that
something like that's gonna happen because it is emotionally exhausting.
You are trying to do something that is you know,
fun for yourself and find community with other people. And
if someone's going to try to make you explain why
(15:09):
it's racist to put all these like racialized expectations on
someone just because of the race. So like you don't
want to deal with that, like, that's wh why I'm here.
I'm not here to teach you.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation. Stay tuned, there's more
to come.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back. I know you
talked about you had this interest in bondage starting from
when you were young, but once you actually joined a
kink community and started exploring, how did you figure out
what it is that you really liked and what it
is you absolutely weren't interested in participating in.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
So I am a big nerd. I literally went online
to like read lists of kings and going like that
sounds fine, I don't know what that is. Let me
look into that. Oh no, not for me, absolutely not,
or like, oh that's what that's called. I didn't know
that was the thing. So I kind of just went
through and made note of things. I was interested in,
(16:14):
things that sounded fun, things that did not sound good
at all. I did always know that I was witchy like.
And so for people who aren't familiar with the lingo,
there's like everybody knows everybody thinks of like a domina
sub right, which in and everybody uses different words, which
(16:35):
can also be referred to as like a top or
a bottom, and that there's a switch. A switch is
someone that can do either or and sometimes the switch
will lean more top or lean more bottom. For me,
it depends on the partner that I'm with. I might
be more toppy, more bottomy. If I'm playing with someone
that's like just the top, I'll be like, Okay, I
guess that's just that's I'm the other half of this puzzle.
(17:00):
Current girlfriend and I were both switches, so it's great, fantastic,
we can take turns. So just literally experimenting, like like
any hobby, you try stuff, you figure out what works
for you, and sometimes something that won't work with one
partner works with another partner because you just have a
different vibe. So you just you just keep exploring and
(17:22):
keep communicating communications super super key.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, what would you say, are maybe some stereotypes or
misconceptions of kink or anything you want to debunk about kink.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
But there's always older men who will say, like, I'm
an expert, dom I'm gonna be You're a master. You
have to do everything I say. And so people who
are you know, who want a sub or who want
a bottom coming into the king community and that don't know.
They'll be like, okay, I guess this is how it works,
like no, no, no, no, absolutely not this. You have
(17:58):
to negotiate, You need to communicate, You need to get
to know somebody, Like I have a friend who literally
negotiated for a year with somebody before they agreed to
play with them. Like that's how like nitty gritty they
got into it. So that's for someone they wanted to
(18:19):
be like a continuing play partner with. There are play
parties where it's just sort of like pickup we call
pickup play because you just play that one time and
you leave and there's still negotiation. You don't just like
walk up to somebody and start like slapping them around,
like someone will hang out by like some kind of
like furniture or tools, and then you just kind of
(18:41):
go up to them and go like hi, like any place, Hi,
nice to meet you. What's your name? How are you
doing tonight? Like what are you interested in? I'm interested
in this? And you figure something out like what are
your limits? The The sort of traditional safe word is red.
You use this traffic lights like green yellow red green
(19:03):
is like cool, more of that yellow as paused, the
take a breather red is like drop everything, stop immediately,
and then you also check in about aftercare, like do
you want aftercare? What do you like? Some people like
cuddling after some people like a nice drink, a nice treat.
So there is so much communication an agreement that has
(19:25):
to happen before anything that had Just anytime I hear
about somebody just like busting out with like online with
like I'm your master and you're gonna do everything I want,
I'm gonna say it's like that is abusive. Do not
do that.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
As we're talking about kink and your participation, just like
generally for our listeners, like what are the considerations there
for you?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
In a lot of counties and states, what you can
do in kink can be considered illegal, can be considered battery.
Even if it's something two adults agreed to, are happy
to do, excited to do in the privacy of their
own home on their own time, like, it can still
(20:08):
be a jailable offense. Sometimes it'll affect a person's career.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
And I feel like there might be an idea out
there that people who participate in the kink space are
like degenerates on the margins of society, you know, but
in your experience, like folks who like kink, where are
they coming from?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You have white collar executives, you have people in the
legal fields, medical fields. You have artists, musicians, baristas, you know,
Amazon delivery people, feedecs, ware house workers, literally literally every
single walk of life.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
I realized that as we conduct the interview, there's some
terminology that maybe our listeners won't all be familiar with. So,
I mean, even the term kink. How would you define
kink the idea of playing or finding a play partner? Like,
how do you define play in this context? A vocatalyst,
(21:18):
yeses a terminology review, kink.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Would be anything that sort of goes outside of the
expectation of what sex is supposed to be. So, I know,
in the in the eighties, there were some movements saying that,
like queer sex was inherently kinky because it goes against
the grain. Nowadays that's not so much the case. Now
(21:44):
it's just anything that has like a special special outside
of the norm. Something is I know, like a foot
fetish is like a very mainstream sort of kink that
people are familiar with, to the point where it's like
kind of a joke like well, guess I'm gonna have
to sell speak fix for this trip or whatever. But
(22:07):
then they can also get really specific, like being into
playing with food or playing with electricity, and then so
like electricity is like one of those that's very technical
that you need to take a class on. Dungeons won't
offer classes for movies, so it's very important to not
(22:31):
just do something that's dangerous without getting training on that.
Play partner playing, So it's a lot like like scripting
a play scripting a scene. We do call them scenes.
Before you have a scene with somebody which is just you,
even another perfect getting together, you do talk about it
(22:53):
like what are you interested in, You find your common interests,
you agree on what you're gonna do, what kind of
boys you are okay with using, and then you play.
So we call it playing because it's fun. You get
to it is a make believe space like no, you're
(23:16):
not really a teacher, and no you're not really a student.
Like we're playing, we're wearing costumes, we have toys, we're
pretending there's a script. So a play partner would be
someone that you play with. And then not all kink
has sex involved. Sometimes people just like the kinky aspect
that's alsophy. It's called a play partner and not necessarily
(23:39):
like a partner that you're sleeping with or having sex with,
because it is separate some people, just like the play aspect.
There's there's no way I can list all kinds of kikes.
But but a kink to me, I would define it's
just anything outside of the mainstream, anything outside of the expected.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
And so I'm wondering, in your perspective and someone in
the community, what are the benefits of maybe survivors participating
in kink.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
I am myself a survivor, and so what I like
about kink is the amount of control, like nothing unexpected
is going to happen, because you and your partner already
went over like everything, and you trust your partner to
stop when you say stop, like I have, you know,
when on top of a scene, I have had partners
you know call out red or wait, hould on a
(24:31):
second and drop everything, immediately, drop the persona like you okay,
what do you mean? Like what's going on? Like immediate
care mode. And it's a safe space to explore things
that would be ordinarily dangerous without any kind of like
oversyc like ropes can be dangerous. I know everybody sees
movies and think yay ropes, which, yes, yay ropes. Especially
(24:54):
for me, that's like one of my favorite things. But
it is something that you need to be trained on,
take classes on. There are points on the body that
if you restrict them for too long, it can affect
your nerves. There's places you shouldn't cut, there's place shirts
shouldn't tighten on, there's places you know, there's all kinds
of things going on. It also depends on the health
of a person. So for survivors, it's great because you
(25:18):
really get an immense amount of control. You know, whether
you're a top or a bottom or a switch like me,
you feel really safe because you're not worried about like, oh,
this person's going to suddenly do something that's going to
hurt me in a way that I don't want. Right Like,
if they hurt me, it's because I asked for it
(25:38):
and we're both into it and it feels awsome, So
it is awesome for me. I would even recommend negotiations
and like red, yellow, green, sort of safe words to
people who engage in vanilla play because it's also I
think everybody should. And I feel like my friends who
(25:59):
are the KING community are just better communicators overall because
we're doing a lot of check ins like oh, hey, like,
do you have space for me an event about my day?
If not, that's cool because like we're very good about
checking in. You know, it's not personal. When someone's like
I really can't right now, it's like, okay, cool. So
for survivors, I think there's a lot of survivors who
(26:23):
participate in kink, and I know for me personally, it's
probably some of the safest, most fulfilling sex I've ever had.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
So do you also put out the call on our
social media chant accounts to like find somebody who would
be down to come on the show and be interviewed.
So why was it important for you or why were
you willing or excited to come on the show to
talk about this topic.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
But I really want to see more Latina representation in
the KING community. It is, like I mentioned before, a
very white, hetero space. I'm a fear Latina, So I'm
neither of those things. We are out here, even in
the kink community that I've been to in the POC spaces,
(27:15):
I don't see a lot of like fem latinas like me.
So when we do see each other, we're like, oh hey,
Like we do kind of keep tasking each other and
go like, oh hey, it's you again. So I think
it's important to just show we're out here, we're doing
our thing. We're perverted just like the rest of them,
and you know that it's fun.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
What do you think the access to like kink education
looks like for people? Sex AD is already hard enough
to obtain. How hard is it to access like good,
thorough accurate kink education And where should people be looking.
You mentioned a couple books, but I'm just wondering generally,
where should people look for reliable sources.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I think this is part of the reason the kink
community it's also still predominantly hetero and white, is that
a lot of the education will be at dungeons, and
dungeons charge money for memberships, they charge money for classes.
There are classes you can find online, but they also
charge money, and so I feel like that is a barrier.
(28:19):
But they're as more brown people get access to podcasts,
to media, to zoom to things like the internet. You know,
we offer classes, I say we as brown people in general,
not me specifically, but we offer classes at a lower
price point just because I mean, brown people just like
(28:45):
make less money than white people right now, Queer people
make less money than straight people do right now. Some
of the mainstream dungeons will have sighting scales or like
bipoc fees, or will let you have a free ticket
to a class if you just say, like, hey, I
just I can't afford this class, and like you email them,
can I just get in for free?
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Please?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
A lot of times if you just ask, they will
they'll be like okay, sure. So it is there is
a barrier of entry, and I don't like that you
have to ask for the free ticket because that's also
another barrier for people. So it is difficult, but it
is out there. It is on the internet. Go to
your local munches, your local dungeons. If you go to
(29:27):
event bright, you can find munches in your local area.
Event Bright will have you know, munch at Denny's, munch
at whatever bar, and then just kind of start asking
the locals what they do and where they go, because
again there is a need for anonymity because it is
it can't affect people's income, people's families, So it's not
(29:50):
the most it's not the easiest thing to find, but
it is out there. Once you kind of know to
look for a munch to meet people, they can give
classes or if you just make really good friends with
someone who's been around for a long time, like sometimes
they'll be willing to teach you, go like, hey, yeah,
like I've been teaching rope, I'll teach you a couple
of things. Something like rope requires a lot of practice too,
(30:15):
Like you have to practice at somebody. It is there
is a barrier to entry. So that's why I recommend
just things you can do at home. Talk like dirty talk,
use your hands, use tools you get the nine Night
sen store, like hair brushes, clothes pins.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Do you have any final thoughts or any like wrap
up that you want to share before we sign off?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Keep getting browner and weirder, queer, think you're and more perverted.
Just let your freak flag fly out there.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
What I learned from Maddie is that anyone can explore kink.
It takes a lot of communication and trust, and that
we can all be better communicators when it comes to
what we like and what we want to explore. Next
(31:11):
time on Senora Sex Said. We're joined by comedian Danielle.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Berez nos vemos c Cao.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locata Productions
and Michael Dura Podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (31:29):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and theos FM.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Also executive produced by Jasell.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Fances, produced by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Story editing by the Asafem.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Music direction by Grisol Lomeli and.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Music produced by Brian Gazzo.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Local Columbia
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