March 4, 2025 • 26 mins
In the penultimate episode of Señora Sex Ed, three guests share their personal stories about masturbation and self-pleasure. Learn how each of them learned about masturbation, flogging with hierbas, and why you should ask yourself for consent.
Special thanks to Jay Treviño, Secoya, and Gloria Malone for contributing to this episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Amiga. You know my Spanish is so bad? How do
you say masturbation in Spanish? I know, why know the male?
When that's Donna Summer and her hit nineteen seventy five
(00:27):
classic love to Love You Baby. I was first introduced
to love to Love You Baby through Beyonce because she
interpolated Donna Summer's hit song in her song Naughty Girl.
And of course we were raised by Beyonce, so Naughty
Girl and Love to Love You Baby sonically for me
was one of the first introductions to very sexy, breathy
(00:51):
music that suggested female pleasure and orgasm. Love to Love
You Baby is almost sixteen minutes long and according to
some there are over twenty orgasms that Donna Summer performs
on the track, and in fact, the song was recorded
while Donna Summer was alone in a dark studio envisioning
(01:11):
herself as an actress playing someone in sexual ecstasy, and
she recorded the song while lying on the floor.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
In case you couldn't tell, today we're talking about masturbation,
how we learned about it, and how we practice self
pleasure now.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Senora Yora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora Senora, Hi, Senora,
Welcome to Senora sex Ed.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Senora sex Said is not your Mommy's sex Talk. This
show is la platica like you've never heard it before.
With each episode, we're making the stigma and silence around
sex and sexuality in the LATINX community.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
We are your hosts and producers Bosa and Mala. In
today's episode, you'll hear stories from several guests about their
relationships to masturbation and unlearning shame.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Episode twenty nine Sex with Yourself. As we explore the
topic of masturbation with an incredible lineup of guests, we
also wanted to ask ourselves and ask each other when
did we learn about masturbation? When was our first time
seeing it in the media, talking about it with our friends,
(02:40):
or just doing it ourselves.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So for me, I definitely was introduced to masturbation through porn,
and I remember watching as a young person and thinking,
these ladies are having a really good time and I
want to have a good time too, And it was
a learning moment for me, and so masturbation at that time.
Because porn is also something that can be so private
(03:07):
and have its own shame attached to it. Then the
thing that I learned from porn also, of course, was
something that was very personal and not something that I
talked to anybody about, and that would be how I
was introduced to masturbation. How about you THEOSA, I think
for me it was the same.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I think it was there was a moment in time
when we were growing up where you could just watch
late night porn, like on cable.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It would just turn on. It was just that time
of night that it was programmed, and they assumed everybody
was asleep, but lo and behold we were not.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Lo and behold, we were awake. And I think that
that was my first introduction as well. I've also been
reflecting on how I was raised, and as we all
know by now, I was raised Catholic, and I was
trying to think back if there was any shame that
was instilled in me because because of that, and I
can't think of a particular moment, and I think maybe
(04:05):
that's why, or there's something there where I'm like, where
did that shame come from? Do I even feel shame?
I'm not really sure. Masturbation feels like a really big
question mark in my life, and so I'm really excited
to hear from our guests to hear how they view masturbation,
(04:25):
how they've unlearned, some shame, and some tips that they
share with us as well.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
First, we hear from Jay trevignan, content creator and co
creator of Preciosa Night. You might remember her from a
previous episode where she discussed her fertility journey. Here's Jay.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I remember discovering like masturbation and not really knowing what
that is, but like enjoying it right and like discovering
my body and like figuring it out. On one day,
I was like in the middle of this and my
mom busts through the door and she's just like, what
(05:04):
are you doing, like just goes crazy on me, and
of course I'm like embarrassed, ashamed, and like all the
feels right. And literally, like the next day, my mom
had told all my theos and theas, like everybody and
I had. I come from a household of thirteen aunts
and uncles and like thirty something cousins, but like everybody
(05:25):
knew what I had done the night before, and we're
at a round table. Literally it's like all my aunts
lined up and they're like, Okay, you're not supposed.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
To do this.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Like that was really bad, Like, you know, we go
to church, we don't do that stuff. Like when you
get those feelings, you should crack open a book or
I remember them having like these ridiculous things to do
instead of like masturbation. And I was mortified, like so
mortified that I was, like, I just I never did
it again, like truly, and even till this day, I
(05:58):
feel like I still hold a lot of shame in that,
which I think is so messed up, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Looking back, Jay considers her mom's possible motivations for telling
her family.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I don't think my mom knew how to deal with that,
so in her own way, I think she just went
and you know, told everyone that she's man was just
like what do I do? Like She's doing this thing
and I don't know how to deal And my mom's
also the youngest, so I feel like she looked to
her brothers and sisters for advice.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Now, years later, how does Jay unpack this embarrassment and
shame I.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Was, I think in my twenties when I first started
going to therapy, and that was one of the topics
of conversation that came up, just like the guilt of
being sexual in like a Latino, very religious household and
like the shame that you tend to carry sometimes. And
thank god my therapist I made sure was queer and Latina,
(06:58):
so I needed there to be like some understanding on
that level.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And she was so amazing.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Like we would do exercises and I would take homework
and I would just it was a lot of them learning,
you know. Thankfully I did the work, but there are
a lot of us that don't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Stay tuned. There's more to come, and we're back. We
hope you enjoyed the break and are ready to listen
to the rest.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Soekoya is a podcast listener, community organizer, and former sex
educator from the Bay Area. Like many of our previous guests,
they did not receive sex ed that focused on pleasure
or even self pleasure, but they did hear a song
that introduced them to masturbation.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Stay Girls, mash Up All My Day, Oh My Steak Gulsmasco.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
There was a song by black More rapper and she's
like singing about masturbating, like getting like like this feeling.
And I didn't recognize at the time that I loved it.
So much, and it didn't make the connection with a
mount masturbation until I showed it to a friend like
freshman year in college, and she was like, I think
this girl's talking about masturbation and I was like, oh
(08:18):
my god, I had no idea. I like got embarrassed
at one point.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
I was like, what, No, we can't be that.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Then like looked it up later and.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Was like, oh shit, yeah, this is what it is.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Sequoya found their own personal connection to self pleasure through
kink and play with yerubitas. Here's how so.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
I learned about it through doulah Slash. They call themselves
like the Kinky Midwife, I think here in Oakland. I
don't know if they're based here in Oakland, but they
were having a workshop here and a friend who had
done rope with before kind of told me about it.
Was like, I think you'd really like this, and so
the facilitator focused it on like it being like connecting
with like plants in a very like reconnecting with our
(08:56):
indigenous ways, and like reconnecting in a spiritual way and
seeing like kink and like sexual liberation and sexual practice
being a very beautiful and like indigenous practice, like receiving
and experiencing pleasure, whether it's on your own or with
someone else, is like very much part of like reclaiming
our indigenous ways and also reclaiming like our connection with
(09:18):
our ancestors as black and round people. This one was
specifically focused on nettle, and if you've never interacted or
like learned what nettle was, I didn't know until this class.
It is like kind of like a circle focus, like
a circle shaped plant, and it has these spiky things
at the bottom. And some folks think they're like needles
that like will pinch you, but actually it's not. It's
(09:40):
just like when those little poky things that the end
touch you, it kind of releases a part of the
plant that like stings you, so it feels like a stingy.
So most people interact with netle it's like on an
accident when you're like maybe going on hikes, and it
hurts a lot. But this one we got to make
like our own bundle. The instructor was able to gather
(10:02):
some netle for us also some stage also some cedar
from like the nearby forest area. We spent some time
just kind of thinking about what we wanted to get
out of the experience from the workshop.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
So it was like a group of us. It was
like a group of like ten.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
We were in a circle. We had that in the middle.
We talked about like what was our experience with flogging
or our intention with the session, and we got to
like kind of hold the nettle first, because you don't
really want to like start flogging yourself with nettle right away.
It can definitely stay, and so we're like able to
(10:41):
hold it kind of like rubbed in our skin just
to kind of see what it would be like.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
And then we went and created.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Our bundles off of all of the herbs that the
facilitator had collected, and then we just had time to
kind of like make our our bundle, wrap it up
and then like feel what it would feel like to
rub it on your skin or if you wanted to
like flog on your skin. And so all the different
types of like plans kind of feel differently.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Even though our individual choice is under attack, masturbation, the
power and choice to touch ourselves cannot be taken away
from us, and a climate or federal attacks on our
sexual and reproductive health are on the rise, Masturbation is
an act of resistance.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
I would say that I just am the biggest proponent
for exploring masturbation and self pleasure for anyone. Everyone to
really learn about what they enjoy and what they like
so that they know that they can provide it for
themselves and can then like figure out ways that they
(11:45):
feel comfortable sharing it with others. And it's at everyone's
own pace and like what they're comfortable with. You know, Like,
just because I explore masturbation self pressure a certain way,
does that mean it's like the right way or the
most correct way. It's like everyone gets to do it
in their own way.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
But I just like think it's really.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Important for everyone to have some sort of practice for it,
to be able to connect with themselves and their needs
and desires. And also just like stress relief, Like it's
such a huge stress relief to give yourself that time
and energy, especially in the time when we're like you know,
wrapped up a lot in like the government and the
(12:23):
way they're trying to police our bodies and like tell
us what we can or can't do. It's like, I
feel like a form of resistance to really prioritize your
self pleasure.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We'll be taking a quick break, don't miss us.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back. Gloria Malone is
a creative and longtime advocate for young mothers. Herself, having
parented as a teenager, she has a revolutionary way of
thinking about masturbation and self pleasure.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
I started masturbating in my preteen years. I didn't know
that's what I was doing. I was just like, oh,
I found something, and this feels great, right, and so
like that's what I did. Sometimes I knew that, like,
you can't really do that in public. I just knew that,
like you shouldn't be doing this in public, right, Although anecdotally,
(13:16):
and I don't know the young girl's name, but there
was definitely a girl in our fifth grade class who
used to rub one out in the middle of class often,
and they would just like seek her on the other
side of the room, away from people, but like never
talked about it. Sorry, it's like not funny, it's kind
of fucking. But so, like, clearly people would know what
(13:41):
masturbation was, we didn't necessarily have words for it, and
no one was addressing what this thing was. So I
started like exploring my body, you know, Like in my
preteen years, I became pregnant at fifteen, and I have
had to figure out what pleasure means to me in
(14:03):
a number of different ways, like what is a pleasurable
human interaction for me? Like like I remember one time
I went out with a friend and she was like, Oh,
there's so many cuties in here, like what's your type?
Like what type of how do you like someone to
approach you? Right? And like, to me, that's part of pleasure?
How does how someone how you like someone to approach
you and talk to you is part of pleasure? And
(14:23):
I was like a deer in the headlights. I was like,
I don't. I have no idea because so many of
my experiences up to that point had like been things
that were done to me and not things that I
had been an experience of or like had even sat
back to think about. And so I was like, oh,
I don't And I was kind of embarrassed, like they
didn't have an answer. So I think of like pleasure
(14:46):
for me, I've had to expand the definition from just
like penetration or like touching yourself right, and like a
certain like touching your clitoris in a certain way, like
pleasure for me starts has it starts way before any
of that, and it's easier for me to, like, I guess,
interrogate what that type of pleasure is before because I
(15:08):
was always trying to be like, Okay, well how do
I want to feel during sex? Which is cool and
like necessary, but I was like, how do I want
to feel beforehand? How do I want to feel to
make sure that I want to actually have sex, that
I actually want to masturbate, which is also a thing.
Like I felt like I would just masturbate because it's
something to do and be like, well, can't fall asleep,
(15:28):
let me roll over, you know, and masturbate with help
me go to bed, or like I'm stressed, I'm going
to masturbate because it helps get some energy out. But
it wasn't ever like a thing that I was like
inexperienced with even with myself. And I remember telling my sister,
I was like, if a man, which I don't do
that anymore, but like if a man treated me the
way that I treat my body when I masturbate, I'd
(15:50):
be so pissed off. And I was like, I have
got to change the way that I masturbate with myself.
So for me, it was like a lot of just
doing masturbation again because like of utility reasons or like,
you know, my kid's not home, I'm gonna go masturbate,
you know, like whatever. But and so I thought about,
like if if a man came over and just like
(16:13):
didn't caress my body, didn't like try to have a
conversation with me, didn't set an am Beyonce like you know, space,
or not even a man, But like if someone came
over and they weren't like trying to set a mood
with me to like eventually get to having sex, right,
I really want to be into it, like you know,
(16:33):
like if they weren't like caressing me in some way,
I probably I wouldn't you know what I mean, like
you have to warm up the oven or whatever the
like hetero like talking point is. And I realized that
I was just like rushing to just touch myself and
to get it over with, and I was like, this
is trash, Like there's got to be a better way
to like masturbate. And I feel like for me, it
(16:55):
was making masturbation an experience and being honest about if
this is actually what I need at this moment, like
just because I'm not falling asleep doesn't mean I need
to rub one out. Maybe it means that, like I
have to do something else just because I'm like don't
know what to do without his energy. Doesn't mean I
need to go rub one out. Sometimes I do, but
like it's it shouldn't be it shouldn't be so transactional.
(17:17):
And if you want to take transactional sexual experiences or
like dry sexual experiences from someone else, why would you
create that standard for yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
We understand consent as it relates to two people, but
Gloria explains that it's important to ask yourself for consent
and really question if you really want to touch yourself
right now.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
Generally, it's like, and I've learned this from a black
burlesque answer. Her name is Pearl Noir. She like had
like this sexual healing type of like workshop thing, and
she's like, you should ask yourself for consent to touch yourself.
And I was like, hold on, what do you mean?
And I like kind of like blew my mind. But
(18:05):
I was also like, what if she's talking about like
sometimes sometimes people just get too woo woo, you know.
And then I like thought about it for a while
and I was like, yeah, because sometimes I would jump
into masturbation, I'd be like, I actually don't feel like
doing this, but I'm like, well, I guess I got
to finish now, and I'm like it shouldn't feel like
a task. So for me, like the first thing is
kind of like asking myself and being open to respond,
(18:27):
like having an answer or genuine answer for myself is
like do you actually feel like masturbating right now? Do
you feel like touching yourself right now?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
And then there's so many different ways to masturbate, Like
there's like vibrators, there's you know, penetrative things you can use.
There's you know, some people get off on just like
nipple stimulation, so like there's I was like I always
felt like masturbation meant attacking my clitorists in some way
or another, right, and then being like, well that was great,
(18:58):
and like, yeah, it feels good. That's like the point
of that part. But like there's so many other ways
to feel great during this process. So it's like what
type of pleasure do I want to feel? And sometimes
that's like, you know, I'm going to like sit and
caress my body some right, Like we all touched starved
in one way or another. You know, so like maybe
(19:19):
it looks like caressing my body some If I want
to be really dramatic, you know, I'll go and I'll
give myself a whole ass bath with like candles and
blah blah blah. And sometimes that's just the pleasure that
I needed. It wasn't actually the act of like bringing
myself to orgasm. It was just creating an environment where
I could feel really soft and like relaxed, and you know,
(19:41):
that's the type of pleasure that I needed. So I think,
I know that's not like a super clear answer, but
it's like making sure that well, not making sure, but
like asking myself, do I actually want like to masturbate
in the like super narrow sense of the word. If
I do, then like what type of pleasure do I
want to experience at this moment? Sometimes it is penetrative,
(20:02):
sometimes it's not. You know, and what is something that
what are the things that will help me get into
the mood of whatever it is that pleasure that I
want to feel, And you know, sometimes the things that
get me into the mood of feeling that pleasure was
actually the pleasure I was needing, not the actual act
of masturbating.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Gloria's approach to educating her daughter about sex and sexuality
was informed by her own experiences as a teen mother
and triggered by the realization that if she didn't teach
her daughter these important lessons, someone else would.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
My daughter was in first grade or second grade, I
don't remember, and she came home and she told me
that one of the students in the class was talking
was said something about sex, was like talking to her
about sex or like, I don't know something something as
child and sex. And I was like, wait, what you know?
And at this point I was doing like some sort
of like either you know again, as I had my
(21:00):
like sexual health education advocacy or like like the rights
type of thing. So I was like having these conversations
all day every day, but never with my freaking second grader,
you know. So I was like, okay, wait, what do
you mean and she was like, yeah, they said that
like people take their clothes off and get on top
of each other and it's like called sex. And I
(21:22):
was like, oh, okay. And so from that moment I
realized that, like, I have got to be the first
and loudest like educational voice for my child when it
comes to sex relationships, you know. I remember having a
conversation with her about like, sometimes you just like how
somebody looks. It doesn't mean you have a crush on them,
(21:42):
you know, because she had like a crush on this
boy and I was like, but what do you like
about him? She was like I don't know. And I
was like, well, you know, do you guys have similar interests?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And she was like no.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
I was like, does he like school like you do?
Speaker 7 (21:54):
She was like no.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
I was like, okay, so why do you like? It
was like, well, he's cute, And I was like, girl,
that's fine. Someone can be cute and someone can be
a crush. And so I've always like when it, even
when she was younger, was always like really intentional about
and reminding her that like the only place you have
to live on this planet literally is your own body,
(22:17):
and so like you have got to be in relationship
with your body and like know about it, right, Like
imagine not knowing how many rooms you have in your
house because you're just like it's just a house, right,
Like you got to know your body as well as
you want to know other places that you like enter into.
(22:38):
And I don't mean like just touching yourself, but just
like how you know, where does your stress sit, where
does happiness feel? Like all of those things. So I've
always talked to her in these types of ways, and
so I've also always asked her like do you want
me to lie? Do you want the truth? And so
you know, I remember she found condoms in my closet
(22:58):
once and she was like what a And I was like,
I was like, oh my gosh, I am not ready
because kids be asking you shit, like at the worst times,
Like you know, there's never a great time to ask
your mother what a condom is, but like just the
most random fucking time of the day. She's in the
closet for some reason. Anyway, So I was like, when
(23:20):
you want the truth or do you want to lie?
And she's like, no, I want the truth. And so
I told her it was like these are things that
like men wear on their penis so that they don't
get you pregnant. She was like, oh okay, and like
that was it right? Because she's like I don't know
what the fuck any of that meant, but cool, and
she's like walked away. So I say all this to
say that, like I've always had these types of conversations
(23:42):
with her, and yeah, I you know, what does consent
look like? What does you know? Knowing yourself before you're
both somebody else is really important. That's what I've also
shared with her.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
My main takeaway from today is that masturbation really is medicine,
That masturbation is resistance, political resistance, and it is self love.
There are a lot of different ways to masturbate and
to pleasure oneself, as outlined by Sequoia and Gloria, who
(24:16):
both dropped gems about masturbation and ideas that I know
I've never heard before, and they really got me thinking
about what it means to romance oneself, to love oneself,
and to make oneself feel good.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Next week on Senora Sex said, join us for our
final episode of the season, We're in conversation with pioneer
journalist Maria Inojosa.
Speaker 7 (24:42):
Well, here's what I will tell you that I have
a great sex life now. I would say for the
last decade frankly, because it happened about a decade ago.
Twenty fifteen, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, those were
years of working this out and so since then, yeah,
(25:04):
definitely things changed in terms of my ability to accept
my own desire for sexual pleasure.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Nosmos Choo.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locada Productions
and Michael Dura Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and biosa Fem.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Also executive produced by Jaselle Frances.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Produced by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Story editing by Biosafem.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Music direction by Brissol Lomeli.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And music produced by Brian Gazzo.
Speaker 6 (26:04):
Thought that a boot.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
At and
Speaker 6 (26:09):
Thinking that they had to book
Amiga. You know my Spanish is so bad? How do
you say masturbation in Spanish? I know, why know the male?
When that's Donna Summer and her hit nineteen seventy five
(00:27):
classic love to Love You Baby. I was first introduced
to love to Love You Baby through Beyonce because she
interpolated Donna Summer's hit song in her song Naughty Girl.
And of course we were raised by Beyonce, so Naughty
Girl and Love to Love You Baby sonically for me
was one of the first introductions to very sexy, breathy
(00:51):
music that suggested female pleasure and orgasm. Love to Love
You Baby is almost sixteen minutes long and according to
some there are over twenty orgasms that Donna Summer performs
on the track, and in fact, the song was recorded
while Donna Summer was alone in a dark studio envisioning
(01:11):
herself as an actress playing someone in sexual ecstasy, and
she recorded the song while lying on the floor.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
In case you couldn't tell, today we're talking about masturbation,
how we learned about it, and how we practice self
pleasure now.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Senora Yora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora, Senora Senora, Hi, Senora,
Welcome to Senora sex Ed.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Senora sex Said is not your Mommy's sex Talk. This
show is la platica like you've never heard it before.
With each episode, we're making the stigma and silence around
sex and sexuality in the LATINX community.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
We are your hosts and producers Bosa and Mala. In
today's episode, you'll hear stories from several guests about their
relationships to masturbation and unlearning shame.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Episode twenty nine Sex with Yourself. As we explore the
topic of masturbation with an incredible lineup of guests, we
also wanted to ask ourselves and ask each other when
did we learn about masturbation? When was our first time
seeing it in the media, talking about it with our friends,
(02:40):
or just doing it ourselves.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So for me, I definitely was introduced to masturbation through porn,
and I remember watching as a young person and thinking,
these ladies are having a really good time and I
want to have a good time too, And it was
a learning moment for me, and so masturbation at that time.
Because porn is also something that can be so private
(03:07):
and have its own shame attached to it. Then the
thing that I learned from porn also, of course, was
something that was very personal and not something that I
talked to anybody about, and that would be how I
was introduced to masturbation. How about you THEOSA, I think
for me it was the same.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I think it was there was a moment in time
when we were growing up where you could just watch
late night porn, like on cable.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It would just turn on. It was just that time
of night that it was programmed, and they assumed everybody
was asleep, but lo and behold we were not.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Lo and behold, we were awake. And I think that
that was my first introduction as well. I've also been
reflecting on how I was raised, and as we all
know by now, I was raised Catholic, and I was
trying to think back if there was any shame that
was instilled in me because because of that, and I
can't think of a particular moment, and I think maybe
(04:05):
that's why, or there's something there where I'm like, where
did that shame come from? Do I even feel shame?
I'm not really sure. Masturbation feels like a really big
question mark in my life, and so I'm really excited
to hear from our guests to hear how they view masturbation,
(04:25):
how they've unlearned, some shame, and some tips that they
share with us as well.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
First, we hear from Jay trevignan, content creator and co
creator of Preciosa Night. You might remember her from a
previous episode where she discussed her fertility journey. Here's Jay.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I remember discovering like masturbation and not really knowing what
that is, but like enjoying it right and like discovering
my body and like figuring it out. On one day,
I was like in the middle of this and my
mom busts through the door and she's just like, what
(05:04):
are you doing, like just goes crazy on me, and
of course I'm like embarrassed, ashamed, and like all the
feels right. And literally, like the next day, my mom
had told all my theos and theas, like everybody and
I had. I come from a household of thirteen aunts
and uncles and like thirty something cousins, but like everybody
(05:25):
knew what I had done the night before, and we're
at a round table. Literally it's like all my aunts
lined up and they're like, Okay, you're not supposed.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
To do this.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Like that was really bad, Like, you know, we go
to church, we don't do that stuff. Like when you
get those feelings, you should crack open a book or
I remember them having like these ridiculous things to do
instead of like masturbation. And I was mortified, like so
mortified that I was, like, I just I never did
it again, like truly, and even till this day, I
(05:58):
feel like I still hold a lot of shame in that,
which I think is so messed up, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Looking back, Jay considers her mom's possible motivations for telling
her family.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I don't think my mom knew how to deal with that,
so in her own way, I think she just went
and you know, told everyone that she's man was just
like what do I do? Like She's doing this thing
and I don't know how to deal And my mom's
also the youngest, so I feel like she looked to
her brothers and sisters for advice.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Now, years later, how does Jay unpack this embarrassment and
shame I.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Was, I think in my twenties when I first started
going to therapy, and that was one of the topics
of conversation that came up, just like the guilt of
being sexual in like a Latino, very religious household and
like the shame that you tend to carry sometimes. And
thank god my therapist I made sure was queer and Latina,
(06:58):
so I needed there to be like some understanding on
that level.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And she was so amazing.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Like we would do exercises and I would take homework
and I would just it was a lot of them learning,
you know. Thankfully I did the work, but there are
a lot of us that don't do it.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
We hope you're enjoying this conversation.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Stay tuned. There's more to come, and we're back. We
hope you enjoyed the break and are ready to listen
to the rest.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Soekoya is a podcast listener, community organizer, and former sex
educator from the Bay Area. Like many of our previous guests,
they did not receive sex ed that focused on pleasure
or even self pleasure, but they did hear a song
that introduced them to masturbation.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Stay Girls, mash Up All My Day, Oh My Steak Gulsmasco.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
There was a song by black More rapper and she's
like singing about masturbating, like getting like like this feeling.
And I didn't recognize at the time that I loved it.
So much, and it didn't make the connection with a
mount masturbation until I showed it to a friend like
freshman year in college, and she was like, I think
this girl's talking about masturbation and I was like, oh
(08:18):
my god, I had no idea. I like got embarrassed
at one point.
Speaker 6 (08:20):
I was like, what, No, we can't be that.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Then like looked it up later and.
Speaker 6 (08:24):
Was like, oh shit, yeah, this is what it is.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Sequoya found their own personal connection to self pleasure through
kink and play with yerubitas. Here's how so.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
I learned about it through doulah Slash. They call themselves
like the Kinky Midwife, I think here in Oakland. I
don't know if they're based here in Oakland, but they
were having a workshop here and a friend who had
done rope with before kind of told me about it.
Was like, I think you'd really like this, and so
the facilitator focused it on like it being like connecting
with like plants in a very like reconnecting with our
(08:56):
indigenous ways, and like reconnecting in a spiritual way and
seeing like kink and like sexual liberation and sexual practice
being a very beautiful and like indigenous practice, like receiving
and experiencing pleasure, whether it's on your own or with
someone else, is like very much part of like reclaiming
our indigenous ways and also reclaiming like our connection with
(09:18):
our ancestors as black and round people. This one was
specifically focused on nettle, and if you've never interacted or
like learned what nettle was, I didn't know until this class.
It is like kind of like a circle focus, like
a circle shaped plant, and it has these spiky things
at the bottom. And some folks think they're like needles
that like will pinch you, but actually it's not. It's
(09:40):
just like when those little poky things that the end
touch you, it kind of releases a part of the
plant that like stings you, so it feels like a stingy.
So most people interact with netle it's like on an
accident when you're like maybe going on hikes, and it
hurts a lot. But this one we got to make
like our own bundle. The instructor was able to gather
(10:02):
some netle for us also some stage also some cedar
from like the nearby forest area. We spent some time
just kind of thinking about what we wanted to get
out of the experience from the workshop.
Speaker 6 (10:17):
So it was like a group of us. It was
like a group of like ten.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
We were in a circle. We had that in the middle.
We talked about like what was our experience with flogging
or our intention with the session, and we got to
like kind of hold the nettle first, because you don't
really want to like start flogging yourself with nettle right away.
It can definitely stay, and so we're like able to
(10:41):
hold it kind of like rubbed in our skin just
to kind of see what it would be like.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
And then we went and created.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
Our bundles off of all of the herbs that the
facilitator had collected, and then we just had time to
kind of like make our our bundle, wrap it up
and then like feel what it would feel like to
rub it on your skin or if you wanted to
like flog on your skin. And so all the different
types of like plans kind of feel differently.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Even though our individual choice is under attack, masturbation, the
power and choice to touch ourselves cannot be taken away
from us, and a climate or federal attacks on our
sexual and reproductive health are on the rise, Masturbation is
an act of resistance.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
I would say that I just am the biggest proponent
for exploring masturbation and self pleasure for anyone. Everyone to
really learn about what they enjoy and what they like
so that they know that they can provide it for
themselves and can then like figure out ways that they
(11:45):
feel comfortable sharing it with others. And it's at everyone's
own pace and like what they're comfortable with. You know, Like,
just because I explore masturbation self pressure a certain way,
does that mean it's like the right way or the
most correct way. It's like everyone gets to do it
in their own way.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
But I just like think it's really.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
Important for everyone to have some sort of practice for it,
to be able to connect with themselves and their needs
and desires. And also just like stress relief, Like it's
such a huge stress relief to give yourself that time
and energy, especially in the time when we're like you know,
wrapped up a lot in like the government and the
(12:23):
way they're trying to police our bodies and like tell
us what we can or can't do. It's like, I
feel like a form of resistance to really prioritize your
self pleasure.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We'll be taking a quick break, don't miss us.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Thanks for sticking around. We are back. Gloria Malone is
a creative and longtime advocate for young mothers. Herself, having
parented as a teenager, she has a revolutionary way of
thinking about masturbation and self pleasure.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
I started masturbating in my preteen years. I didn't know
that's what I was doing. I was just like, oh,
I found something, and this feels great, right, and so
like that's what I did. Sometimes I knew that, like,
you can't really do that in public. I just knew that,
like you shouldn't be doing this in public, right, Although anecdotally,
(13:16):
and I don't know the young girl's name, but there
was definitely a girl in our fifth grade class who
used to rub one out in the middle of class often,
and they would just like seek her on the other
side of the room, away from people, but like never
talked about it. Sorry, it's like not funny, it's kind
of fucking. But so, like, clearly people would know what
(13:41):
masturbation was, we didn't necessarily have words for it, and
no one was addressing what this thing was. So I
started like exploring my body, you know, Like in my
preteen years, I became pregnant at fifteen, and I have
had to figure out what pleasure means to me in
(14:03):
a number of different ways, like what is a pleasurable
human interaction for me? Like like I remember one time
I went out with a friend and she was like, Oh,
there's so many cuties in here, like what's your type?
Like what type of how do you like someone to
approach you? Right? And like, to me, that's part of pleasure?
How does how someone how you like someone to approach
you and talk to you is part of pleasure? And
(14:23):
I was like a deer in the headlights. I was like,
I don't. I have no idea because so many of
my experiences up to that point had like been things
that were done to me and not things that I
had been an experience of or like had even sat
back to think about. And so I was like, oh,
I don't And I was kind of embarrassed, like they
didn't have an answer. So I think of like pleasure
(14:46):
for me, I've had to expand the definition from just
like penetration or like touching yourself right, and like a
certain like touching your clitoris in a certain way, like
pleasure for me starts has it starts way before any
of that, and it's easier for me to, like, I guess,
interrogate what that type of pleasure is before because I
(15:08):
was always trying to be like, Okay, well how do
I want to feel during sex? Which is cool and
like necessary, but I was like, how do I want
to feel beforehand? How do I want to feel to
make sure that I want to actually have sex, that
I actually want to masturbate, which is also a thing.
Like I felt like I would just masturbate because it's
something to do and be like, well, can't fall asleep,
(15:28):
let me roll over, you know, and masturbate with help
me go to bed, or like I'm stressed, I'm going
to masturbate because it helps get some energy out. But
it wasn't ever like a thing that I was like
inexperienced with even with myself. And I remember telling my sister,
I was like, if a man, which I don't do
that anymore, but like if a man treated me the
way that I treat my body when I masturbate, I'd
(15:50):
be so pissed off. And I was like, I have
got to change the way that I masturbate with myself.
So for me, it was like a lot of just
doing masturbation again because like of utility reasons or like,
you know, my kid's not home, I'm gonna go masturbate,
you know, like whatever. But and so I thought about,
like if if a man came over and just like
(16:13):
didn't caress my body, didn't like try to have a
conversation with me, didn't set an am Beyonce like you know, space,
or not even a man, But like if someone came
over and they weren't like trying to set a mood
with me to like eventually get to having sex, right,
I really want to be into it, like you know,
(16:33):
like if they weren't like caressing me in some way,
I probably I wouldn't you know what I mean, like
you have to warm up the oven or whatever the
like hetero like talking point is. And I realized that
I was just like rushing to just touch myself and
to get it over with, and I was like, this
is trash, Like there's got to be a better way
to like masturbate. And I feel like for me, it
(16:55):
was making masturbation an experience and being honest about if
this is actually what I need at this moment, like
just because I'm not falling asleep doesn't mean I need
to rub one out. Maybe it means that, like I
have to do something else just because I'm like don't
know what to do without his energy. Doesn't mean I
need to go rub one out. Sometimes I do, but
like it's it shouldn't be it shouldn't be so transactional.
(17:17):
And if you want to take transactional sexual experiences or
like dry sexual experiences from someone else, why would you
create that standard for yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
We understand consent as it relates to two people, but
Gloria explains that it's important to ask yourself for consent
and really question if you really want to touch yourself
right now.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
Generally, it's like, and I've learned this from a black
burlesque answer. Her name is Pearl Noir. She like had
like this sexual healing type of like workshop thing, and
she's like, you should ask yourself for consent to touch yourself.
And I was like, hold on, what do you mean?
And I like kind of like blew my mind. But
(18:05):
I was also like, what if she's talking about like
sometimes sometimes people just get too woo woo, you know.
And then I like thought about it for a while
and I was like, yeah, because sometimes I would jump
into masturbation, I'd be like, I actually don't feel like
doing this, but I'm like, well, I guess I got
to finish now, and I'm like it shouldn't feel like
a task. So for me, like the first thing is
kind of like asking myself and being open to respond,
(18:27):
like having an answer or genuine answer for myself is
like do you actually feel like masturbating right now? Do
you feel like touching yourself right now?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right?
Speaker 6 (18:35):
And then there's so many different ways to masturbate, Like
there's like vibrators, there's you know, penetrative things you can use.
There's you know, some people get off on just like
nipple stimulation, so like there's I was like I always
felt like masturbation meant attacking my clitorists in some way
or another, right, and then being like, well that was great,
(18:58):
and like, yeah, it feels good. That's like the point
of that part. But like there's so many other ways
to feel great during this process. So it's like what
type of pleasure do I want to feel? And sometimes
that's like, you know, I'm going to like sit and
caress my body some right, Like we all touched starved
in one way or another. You know, so like maybe
(19:19):
it looks like caressing my body some If I want
to be really dramatic, you know, I'll go and I'll
give myself a whole ass bath with like candles and
blah blah blah. And sometimes that's just the pleasure that
I needed. It wasn't actually the act of like bringing
myself to orgasm. It was just creating an environment where
I could feel really soft and like relaxed, and you know,
(19:41):
that's the type of pleasure that I needed. So I think,
I know that's not like a super clear answer, but
it's like making sure that well, not making sure, but
like asking myself, do I actually want like to masturbate
in the like super narrow sense of the word. If
I do, then like what type of pleasure do I
want to experience at this moment? Sometimes it is penetrative,
(20:02):
sometimes it's not. You know, and what is something that
what are the things that will help me get into
the mood of whatever it is that pleasure that I
want to feel, And you know, sometimes the things that
get me into the mood of feeling that pleasure was
actually the pleasure I was needing, not the actual act
of masturbating.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Gloria's approach to educating her daughter about sex and sexuality
was informed by her own experiences as a teen mother
and triggered by the realization that if she didn't teach
her daughter these important lessons, someone else would.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
My daughter was in first grade or second grade, I
don't remember, and she came home and she told me
that one of the students in the class was talking
was said something about sex, was like talking to her
about sex or like, I don't know something something as
child and sex. And I was like, wait, what you know?
And at this point I was doing like some sort
of like either you know again, as I had my
(21:00):
like sexual health education advocacy or like like the rights
type of thing. So I was like having these conversations
all day every day, but never with my freaking second grader,
you know. So I was like, okay, wait, what do
you mean and she was like, yeah, they said that
like people take their clothes off and get on top
of each other and it's like called sex. And I
(21:22):
was like, oh, okay. And so from that moment I
realized that, like, I have got to be the first
and loudest like educational voice for my child when it
comes to sex relationships, you know. I remember having a
conversation with her about like, sometimes you just like how
somebody looks. It doesn't mean you have a crush on them,
(21:42):
you know, because she had like a crush on this
boy and I was like, but what do you like
about him? She was like I don't know. And I
was like, well, you know, do you guys have similar interests?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And she was like no.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
I was like, does he like school like you do?
Speaker 7 (21:54):
She was like no.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
I was like, okay, so why do you like? It
was like, well, he's cute, And I was like, girl,
that's fine. Someone can be cute and someone can be
a crush. And so I've always like when it, even
when she was younger, was always like really intentional about
and reminding her that like the only place you have
to live on this planet literally is your own body,
(22:17):
and so like you have got to be in relationship
with your body and like know about it, right, Like
imagine not knowing how many rooms you have in your
house because you're just like it's just a house, right,
Like you got to know your body as well as
you want to know other places that you like enter into.
(22:38):
And I don't mean like just touching yourself, but just
like how you know, where does your stress sit, where
does happiness feel? Like all of those things. So I've
always talked to her in these types of ways, and
so I've also always asked her like do you want
me to lie? Do you want the truth? And so
you know, I remember she found condoms in my closet
(22:58):
once and she was like what a And I was like,
I was like, oh my gosh, I am not ready
because kids be asking you shit, like at the worst times,
Like you know, there's never a great time to ask
your mother what a condom is, but like just the
most random fucking time of the day. She's in the
closet for some reason. Anyway, So I was like, when
(23:20):
you want the truth or do you want to lie?
And she's like, no, I want the truth. And so
I told her it was like these are things that
like men wear on their penis so that they don't
get you pregnant. She was like, oh okay, and like
that was it right? Because she's like I don't know
what the fuck any of that meant, but cool, and
she's like walked away. So I say all this to
say that, like I've always had these types of conversations
(23:42):
with her, and yeah, I you know, what does consent
look like? What does you know? Knowing yourself before you're
both somebody else is really important. That's what I've also
shared with her.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
My main takeaway from today is that masturbation really is medicine,
That masturbation is resistance, political resistance, and it is self love.
There are a lot of different ways to masturbate and
to pleasure oneself, as outlined by Sequoia and Gloria, who
(24:16):
both dropped gems about masturbation and ideas that I know
I've never heard before, and they really got me thinking
about what it means to romance oneself, to love oneself,
and to make oneself feel good.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Next week on Senora Sex said, join us for our
final episode of the season, We're in conversation with pioneer
journalist Maria Inojosa.
Speaker 7 (24:42):
Well, here's what I will tell you that I have
a great sex life now. I would say for the
last decade frankly, because it happened about a decade ago.
Twenty fifteen, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, those were
years of working this out and so since then, yeah,
(25:04):
definitely things changed in terms of my ability to accept
my own desire for sexual pleasure.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Nosmos Choo.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Senora Sex Said is a co production between Locada Productions
and Michael Dura Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
This show is executive produced by Mala Munos and biosa Fem.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Also executive produced by Jaselle Frances.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Produced by Stephanie Franco.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Creative direction by Mala Munios.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Story editing by Biosafem.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Music direction by Brissol Lomeli.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And music produced by Brian Gazzo.
Speaker 6 (26:04):
Thought that a boot.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
At and
Speaker 6 (26:09):
Thinking that they had to book
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