May 5, 2025 • 40 mins
Victoria Garrick Browne is a 2024 Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, TEDxTalk speaker, mental health advocate, podcast host of Real Pod who has amassed 2M+ followers across social media where she's known for her unfiltered campaign, #RealPost. As a sophomore, she began sharing her story of overcoming depression and anxiety while playing college volleyball at USC. That TEDx Talk has been viewed more than 600,000 times and helped spark discussion about mental health in athletes. As May is Mental Health Awareness Month, Victoria joins host Serving Pancakes host Tiffany Oshinsky to talk about her experiences with mental health and volleyball, why she didn’t quit when she was at her lowest, and what athletes can do to set themselves up for mental health success in club/high school volleyball, college and beyond.
Follow Victoria on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.
Watch Victoria’s TEDxTalk.
Host: Tiffany Oshinsky
Senior Producer: Anya Alvarez
Executive Producers: Carrie Stett, Tamara Deike, and Lindsay Hoffman
Theme Music: Pancakes by Eric W. Mast, Jr.
Sound Designer: Daniel Gonzalez
Serving Pancakes is an iHeart Women's Sports Production, in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to a special episode of Serving Pancakes with League
One Volleyball. I'm your host, Tiffany Oshinsky. May is Mental
Health Awareness Month, and so I'm excited to have Victoria
Garrick Brown as my guest today to talk about the
importance of mental health. Victoria is a Forbes thirty Under
Thirty honoree, TEDx Talk speaker, mental health advocate, podcast host,
(00:23):
and a former Division one volleyball player who has amassed
over two million followers across social media, where she's known
for her unfiltered campaign hashtag real Post. Victoria was a
four year starter and PAC twelve champion for the University
of Southern California, where she finished her career with the
top five most digs in program history. When she was
(00:44):
a sophomore at USC, she shared her story of battling
and overcoming depression and anxiety in a twenty seventeen teed
X Talk, which has led her on this journey destigmatizing
the conversation around mental health and encouraging people to be
their unfiltered selves through her non profit, The Hidden Opponent. Victoria,
thank you so much for joining me on Serving Pancakes.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you, Tiffany I'm so happy to be here, and
I'm just excited.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
To chat with you, very excited to chat with you
because this is such an important topic. Mental health is
an important topic that you know, as you have learned
and you have talked about, is sometimes you know, stigmatized
as something that we can't talk about, that people are
afraid to talk about. So I actually want to start
this conversation at your twenty seventeen TED X talk because
(01:32):
I feel like that is kind of where this journey
that you've that you're now on kind of began. It's
where I feel like you're willing to all of a
sudden open yourself up and share your thoughts and everything
that's going on with your own personal mental health struggles.
So talk to me about the lead up to this
TED talk. What made you decide to do this?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, definitely, And you're right, like that was the domino.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
That changed the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's crazy that you just never know, like how something
is gonna affect your future. And I never sought out
to be a mental health advocate. I never thought I
would found a charity Like these were not things when
I went to college, I was like, that's what I'm
gonna be doing. I kind of thought I would be
a sports broadcaster because I liked media and I liked
being in front of the camera and I loved sports.
(02:21):
But I didn't really know and so as far as like,
how did I end up there if that wasn't the plan?
And I'm very type A. I always have a plan,
and I think a lot of elite athletes and follyball
players people who might listen to this podcast are similar,
Like you want to make the ones team next year,
then you want to get recruited to the same then
you want to be this position, and then this girl's
gonna graduate so you can step into the starting spot.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Like we always have a.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Plan, right, So I think I just felt like when
I got to playing Division and volleyball USC while it
wasn't dream come true and I would do it ten
out of ten times, again, I'm so grateful for my experience.
It was a lot more challenging than I have ever
imagined nor was.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I prepared to face.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
So I just started to really struggle with performance anxiety,
and you know when I wasn't able to figure out
how to cope with that, getting really nervous before games,
and just feeling like I was losing control.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Of like my mind and my confidence.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I didn't have the words for it because I didn't think,
you know, I could have been struggling with mental health issue.
And then I also thought that it was so stigmatized
that I didn't want anyone to know because I wanted
my teammates to trust me on the court. I wanted
my coach to keep playing me in the games. So
you know, I kept that to myself. And then because
I was suppressing my anxiety and not dealing with those
(03:39):
emotions that expedited might fall into a depressive episode my
sophomore year, and I just ended up getting to a
place where I was so low that I couldn't ignore
the struggle that I was in. And then once I
sought the help and I was going to a therapist,
and I was learning more about the fact that, hey,
(04:00):
I'm in a really high pressure environment. You're probably going
to crack at some point or break under the pressure.
And that's okay, a lot of people do. But here's
how we recover, right, Like, I started to put those
pieces together and feel less ashamed of what I was
going through. And so once I got to that point
that coupled with my like traditionally outgoing personality and like
(04:26):
I said, desire to be in media and write, and
I was studying journalism, I was like, we need to
talk about this story. So that was like something in
the back of my mind, you know, as I would
go to Annenberg and I would report on, you know,
our little news segment about what was happening with the
USC sports teams. But then I would think, this feels
like it doesn't matter, Like we need to go to
(04:48):
an athlete, grab their shoulders and say are you okay?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Like how are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Forget about the game, forget about the points, like how
are you as a human being?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, That's what I was caring the most about.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And so as far as the TEDx talk, I was
sitting in a class on a Wednesday night and I
saw an email come through with the subject line I
say this all the time.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I've made it up over the years or it's just
I don't know if I've made it up over the
years because it's what it felt like to me, or
if it's what it really said. I think it's what
it really said, but I swear it said like, once
in a lifetime opportunity like ted X talk at USC
So immediately I was like, I'm zoning out of this lecture.
I'm copy and pasting the diary notes I've been writing
(05:30):
in my phone about these crazy days and all my
emotions and my feels, and I'm applying. And I got
called back, and I went through the process and I
actually got cut. At one point they were like, there's
too many teed X talks on mental health already, and
this was twenty seventeen. There were probably three. I mean that,
(05:52):
don't backcheck me on that, because I'm sure there were more,
and there are many amazing people who were like, you know,
paving the way for these conversations.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
But I was like, come on now, like I've literally.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Googled athlete mental health and really felt like I found
nothing on the internet.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Imagine that, like so much has changed.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So then when I did get like called back at
the last minute, actually, we do want to see you
one more time. I remember going in and being like
looking all of them dead in the eye and saying,
I don't know who you're interviewing and auditioning. I don't
know what their story is. I'm sure it's lovely. I
promise you that we need to talk about this. There's
a massive epidemic of an athlete mental health crisis. No
(06:33):
one's talking about it. And whether I scared them into
it or they bought my elevator pitch, they chose me
as one of the speakers. So I got to work
on write that deliver that ted X talk and had
no foresight that I would ever speak again publicly, or
that I would make, you know, lead me to become
this content creator, and that now I would have this
(06:55):
podcast in this like I never thought that. I just
got on that stage and was like, I hope this
helped someone. And I think the more of the story
there is like if you get to a place in
your life where you're so passionate about something and something
means so much to you, and every part of your
body is like this is what is important to me,
Listen to your intuition because you just never know where
(07:17):
it will lead you. And the last thing I'll say, Tiffany,
I'm literally been speaking for so long before I'll keep
going great.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I love this because this is the League one Volleyball podcast.
I need to say this.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You know, I was really genuinely, like, I just hope
this helps an athlete out there who's also crying at night,
depressed and looking up athlete mental health on YouTube, like,
I hope they find this and.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
They feel seen. And literally, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It was so this tedex talk, I believe came out
in like the spring, so it was the next fall.
We were playing Kentucky in the preseason and we finished
the game and we were like, good game, good game,
good game, and this one girl is like, good game,
good game.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I loved her.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Good game, good game, good game.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And I was like and that was like one of
those moments where I thought, Wow, you know, it's gotten
to this this person I scouted and I'm playing against
and we feel so different but we're the same.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So I'll stop. I'll stop there and let you do
your job.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
No, but this is why you're on is to talk
about this and for us to learn, because I feel
like there's so much that went into the not just
the preparation to do it, but I mean everything that
you went through right to eventually get to having to
do this Ted talk and understanding that this was something
that was needed, and you know in your talks being
of things that were needed.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
I feel like, you know, there's that question where people
are just like, why don't you quit? Like, if this
is really that big of an issue for you, why
don't you quit? That's just a question that I feel
like is the next follow up after you're talking about
all these hardships that you're going through, and it's like,
I mean, I listen to your answer, but you know,
I didn't end up playing in college.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I ended up going to film school. But I can
I can see you know, at some point being like,
but this is who I am, right, So can you
just for the listeners of this podcast, you haven't heard
your to talk explain why you didn't quit and why
you kept pursuing.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I have not thought about this in probably years.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So I love that you asked this because it's like
bringing me back and it's making me chuckle a little bit,
because I will find myself looking at someone else's circumstance
or situation and thinking, just break up with them, just transport.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Just quit your job, just apply to the new.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Like it's so easy to look at someone's situation and
think it would be the solution is to, you know,
do something so drastic. But as we all know, we've
all been in these places when something has been a
part of your life for so long, you love it
so much, you focus on Like I said at the
top of the show, I would do it ten out
of ten times, and without a doubt it was the most.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I It's mental health month, so let's be real.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I've never I got to a place where I was questioning,
like if I wanted to to live my life. I've
never I've had struggles since, and I feel like I've
I've been through some things that have been really hard
post school, but I've never gotten to a place with
my thoughts where I've questioned, you know, do I want
to be here? And so it's like, but then I'm
(10:17):
saying I would go back and do it to Noay
at ten times because it brought me here, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So it's like, why didn't I quit?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I mean because I honestly didn't even know if I
would be happier without it, Like I wanted to figure
out how to make this thing work. Of course, there
were times my mom came to an away game and
she saw me white as a ghost, looking I had
all these stress pimples on my face. All I did
was sleep. All I did was cry, and she was like,
(10:43):
that's it. I'm knocking on the coach's door. I'm taking
you off the team. And I'm like, no, you can't,
like we have a game tomorrow, or like I don't
want to like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So it was just it that just also didn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I guess I felt stuck, and I love to volleyball
so much that I wanted to figure out how to
make it work. And I was able to do that
by going to therapy once a week, getting on antidepressants,
opening up about my struggle so that I didn't feel
so much shame and I didn't feel so alone. And
(11:17):
I even took a brief mental health leave after my
junior season for a couple months and then returned to
play my senior season. So and then my senior season,
I did feel like I had the tools. I still
struggled and I had anxiety at points and whatnot, but
I was happier because I had a toolbox.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You know, going back to volleyball kind of being your identity. Actually,
I want to go like way back, because you know,
it took a lot of hours and a lot of
time to get to play in college, especially usc which
is one of the best teams in the country. So
I want to go back to young, young Victoria and
tell me how you first fell in love with the
(11:58):
sport and and it was fun when there was no
anxiety or depression. Tell me how you fell in love
with the sport and what made you realize that this
was going to be part of your identity.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I just get this visual of my middle school gym,
and I know, like we had a whole border down
and we were on the right side of the core
and we were playing volleyball. I think it like pe
And I just had a really natural standing topspin, which
is so funny for volleyball players, a standing topspin, where
do you ever.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
No one serves that way.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's like the easiest thing, But when you're in seventh
grade and you're whipping out a spinner, like pass it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And so I just had a natural take to the game.
I loved sports growing up.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I played pretty much everything, so when it came to
like choosing a sport, and I guess my older brother
was a professional golfer and he golfed at UCLA, so
I guess I had always looked at him as someone
who took sports very seriously and he kept playing, and
I always thought like, I'm going to play sports.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
You know, as long as I can. And so it
was a teammate.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It was a classmate's mom who went to my mom
and said, oh, your daughter's really good. She should join
my daughter's club team. And we were like, what's club?
And then my mom was like, do you want to
do this? And I was like sure, and so, like
I had said before, I signed up. And then I
was like, oh my gosh, I'm on the twos team.
I want to make the ones team. Okay, this is
the coach, like, you know, this is the girl. I
have to be better then to make the team freshman year,
(13:23):
you know what I mean. And so I just kind
of got enthralled by the sport. And before I knew it,
I was like, I haven't played soccer in three years.
You know, it was natural. It just was the sport
that I guess won my heart in a sense.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Did you ever feel a sense of burnout in the
lead up to playing in college? Because yeah, I told
you this before we started recording, But I played, you know,
club ball. I was very competitive. My dream was to
play at Penn State. I you know, wasn't recruited for
a scholarship, but I did everything possible that I could
to go to Penn State. I went to all the
(13:58):
summer camps. I meet a business card when I was
thirteen and gave it to coach trust Rows at like
one of those camps. You know, I did everything. But
then when I was a junior in high school, kind
of similar to your junior year college, you know, I
remember driving to like a practice and I was just
miserable all the way down. And when I got to practice,
(14:19):
I sat on the sideline and I just cried because
I knew that I loved the sport, but I had
kind of lost the love for it in a way,
and and there was this, you know, sense of burnout.
So did you ever feel that when you were playing
and growing up, was there any sort of premonition that
maybe came to your mind that like that is a
(14:41):
mental health issue. Because when I was sixteen and this happened,
I had no idea that this was a mental health thing.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's me.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It was just like, you know, I've got to suck
it up, but I'm going to sit it out this
practice and I'll decide what I'm going to do eventually.
But you know, has have you ever felt anything like that?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I didn't before college.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
What you described sound similar to like what I went
through my freshman year of college. But prior to that,
I mean, practice days were my favorite. I was always
the one that was like in early out late, wanting
to play more. I loved the tournaments, but granted I
had a lot of confidence. I was one of the
best players on the ones team at the time, you know,
(15:19):
we were going to Jo's, Like, I loved our rhythm.
One of my best friends was on the team, like
it just was so great, and I, yeah, I just
I didn't have a thought of like sometimes I guess
maybe if like you know, we were at high school
and your crush came to watch you play, you know,
I'd be like, why am I thinking so much about this?
(15:39):
Or why am I one like how did my spike
or whatever it was. So I definitely had Now that
I look back, I can recognize moments of like where
I was probably starting to see I had the potential
to like really overthink or have anxiety while I was playing.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But never enough that it ever spooked me.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And actually my first in at USC, I brought that
energy in, like I was so excited for double days,
I mean the seniors. That was like the joke, you
know that, Like I just wanted to play and we
had two practices a day. It was like my dream
come true, you know. So then it was like the
stark contrast of that to then a few months later
feeling like my eyes, I'm about to cry before we
(16:22):
go out to the court because I'm so scared that
I'm gonna get served and.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I'm going to get asd like.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So that was why it was I think so jarring
for me is because I started to then be like
I don't even like who am I? Like, this is
so not me? And then you start to get upset
with yourself and you're like come on, like you know,
and then you just continue to spiral.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I can see that now. You said that when
you got to UFC, you were super excited, super happy.
You were one of the girls that came out there
and gave your you know, a game every single time.
But what was the moment do you remember the moment
where you realize that something wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
When I think about this time in my life, there's
like moments that I remember vividly. There's things I don't remember,
like as just like don't have a great memory. My
friends and I always joke my best friend offvery We'll
be like, remember when you said this thing and were
this thing and we were in third grade and I'm
like no, I'm like, what do we even do this
past weekend?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Like that's where my brain is. But something that.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Pops into my head is like a practice we had
where we were scrimmaging my freshman year. We were the
number one team in the country. We were undefeated, I
was starting, we had the national player of the year.
Like the stakes were high, and it was a scrimmage
and my side won the point, and like I thought
that was good. But then the whistle blew and you know,
(17:41):
the coach called us together or either came to me.
I forget, but like I basically got called out for
doing the wrong footwork, like on defense, like I made
the wrong read. And I think for me in that moment,
I was like, oh my gosh, we won the point.
I didn't even touch the ball and I made a mistake.
And like, because I'm so type a perfectionist, like care
(18:05):
so much, I think I then started thinking, oh my god,
like even if I don't touch though, even if we
win the point and we win the game, I still
could be like making mistakes. So I think that was
a moment for me where I really felt like, like
everything I do has to be flawless and this is
a whole different ballgame than club. And I will say like,
(18:27):
I think that I was mentally susceptible to have this
reaction to pressure. I don't look back and think someone
caused this for me. You know, it would be really
cool if I could have a play a month of
my freshman year, knowing what I know now and try
(18:48):
to use my coping mechanisms and breath work and journaling
and confidence stuff like I would love to try it.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I was just eighteen, I was young.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I had never worked on anything on the mental mindset
side of the game, and it was a very high
pressure environment and something with my personality and that chemistry mix.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
This was the reaction.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So I just like to say that because I don't
look back like thinking, you know, I bet it could
have played out this way at another school, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of athletes, especially you
see now, a lot of athletes are starting to come
forward and talk about their own mental health struggles and
it has nothing to do with you know. I mean,
it's kind of one of those just situations where maybe
thought that this was the right place, but there's just
external factors that made it not feel right or just
you know, you you thought you mesh but with the
(19:41):
coach or the players, but it's not actually right, and
you need to find how your brain works right and
how you know how to handle yourself and cope with
what needs to be you know, cope with how you
can handle the situation better. Right. I feel like a
lot of players. That's why the transfer portal is a thing, right,
and players can transfer two teams that they think that
(20:02):
they can actually mentally help themselves a little bit better.
But I mean, speaking of just players in general, did
you ever talk to your teammates about this, Like when
you got there, was this something that your teammates also
dealt with and talked about or was it something you
kept private and then went to a therapist on your
own or did the team help you.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I definitely had a teammate connect me initially with a
therapist at the health center, which was super helpful. For
me because they gave me that confidence of oh, if
she's going, that means I can go. And she was
older than me and we were in the same position,
and I just felt like seen that she related to
the stress and was like, and I also do something
(20:43):
to help me with it. So that was like my
first kind of crack crack in a good way where
I was like, oh, my gosh, okay, I'm not the
only one. And then it's funny because as I think
about my upper classmen years, the conversation on mental health
was so present and like, I think so much changed
over the from twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen when it
(21:06):
comes to the mental health conversation, and then we ran
into twenty twenty, Like, you know, I noticed it in
just my time.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
There where almost to a fault.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We were joking about being depressed and being down and
down bad and sad, you know, So I think I
saw I saw it go both ways.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Hey, serving pancakes listeners, Tiffany here with a quick shout
out from our friends at Adidas. We're in the final
weeks of our Love Pro season, which means it's your
final chance to grab the limited edition inaugural season player jerseys.
Show your support for your favorite players now at Adidas
dot Com slash US Slash Love. That's Adidas dot Com
(21:53):
slash Us slash l O VB. Hurry. These things are
going fast and once they're gone, they're gone. Don't miss
out on your chance to be part of history. Well,
I feel like another thing that you know. I'm older
than you, So my generation didn't grow up with social media.
I didn't have to worry about scrolling through people and seeing,
(22:15):
you know, what they're doing on spring break, or what
their bodies look like, or if my post didn't get
a hundred likes compared to somebody else's. Like, I didn't
have to deal with that. But you've talked about social
media and how that can really hinder and hurt your
mental health. So can you just talk about that. You know,
(22:36):
your perspective on social media and what it can do
to people, especially student athletes.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Definitely, you know there's so much comparison on the Internet.
It's so hard not to I'm guilty of it.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Still.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Now we're humans, we're constantly scanning our environment for threats
to make.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Sure that we're going to be okay, we're going to
be liked and accepted.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It literally goes back to our ancestors who would wake
up and think, I hope the tribe didn't leave without me,
Like I hope I'm hunting enough and I'm gathering enough,
and I am you know what I mean. It's like
in our blood to scan and make sure we're safe
in a million ways, and it can come up in
the most surface level way of like am I as popular?
Am I as pretty?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Am I?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You know?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
All these things.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So when I was going through I guess, this huge
dip in my life, it felt like with my mental health,
I started to just kind of question and think about everything,
and I realized that social media was contributing to this
narrative I had that everything had to be okay all
the time, and it was really just starting to not
(23:42):
edit my photos and not care so much about getting
the photo and being more real about what I was doing,
how I was feeling my thoughts. That started another small,
little like trickle effect with I guess how my Instagram
has grown over the years, because it definitely went from
(24:03):
like what I thought was me, you know, presenting picture perfect,
to then getting like not really making sense and being
a little more I don't want to say weird, but
to what was people posted a little weird and then
started to feel empowered once the ted x talk was
you know, I was getting messages and emails and feeling
(24:24):
really comforted that I realized there was more to share.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So then I continued to do that on the internet.
And I still do that to this day.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know, I really try. If I'm not having a
good day, I don't maybe always have to say, hey guys,
this is exactly what happened, but I'll say not not
having the best day because I just want people on
social media to know everyone's not always happy, everyone's going
through things, and I like to, you know, have a
trust with anyone who follows me in the community that like,
(24:53):
you're never going to see anything filtered. I don't even
swipe right to Paris on my story, which that's hard.
It's hard some days, but I never do it, you know.
I'm just like, I would like you to know this
corner of the Internet, you're gonna see real content and
real emotions.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
That's where the hashtag real post came from. Mm hmm, yeah,
I like that a lot. I feel like there's, yeah,
this veil of fakeness that a lot of people put
on themselves when it comes to social media that they
want to make sure that they look the best and
all that, and like you said, everyone is susceptible to that.
Everyone goes through that. It's kind of like, how can
(25:28):
you get past that and allow yourself to be your
true self on social media and show who you really are?
Ups and downs? But obviously everyone wants to see the.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Ups right now, And it's like, I want everyone to
know there will be people who will like you, love you,
except you for you just being you. And I think
the biggest thing that we all crave is connection. We
want to connect with other human beings and feel seen.
And the only way that we actually if that's what
(25:57):
we want, how do we get there? You don't get
there by saying oh, I was the valedictorian and my
kids are perfect and my life is perfect.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
You don't relate to anyone.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
You get there by saying, oh, my god, today really sucked.
I just felt so stressed and like none of my
friends are showing up for me. And then someone might
say we I feel the same way. I'm so glad
you told me, you know you. The only way we
grow deeper in connection is through vulnerability, So I, you know,
think it's important to remember that as we think about
how we show up in the world and online.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So after your ted X talk, what happened? I mean,
talk to me about the response that you got from
people who watched it, from your teammates, from your family friends.
What was that response?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Like, I definitely felt so much support.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
My parents were there when I gave it, so was
my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, and
two of my teammates came and my best friend was there,
and I felt really supported. I think I was just
also sort of blown away by how many people related
to it. I knew that the message served a purpose.
(27:05):
I think I didn't process like how big it could
actually grow. And I think the Hidden Opponent nonprofit is
a huge testament to that. You know, it's titled after
the tedex talk. And now we have a community where
you know, there's a campus captain, so a student athlete
ambassador in all fifty states, and I mean that's just
(27:26):
incredible that now we have this like national presence of
this next generation of advocates and student athletes who are
out there right now, they're playing right now, they're graduating
right now, they're being recruited right now, and we can
hear about you know, their unique struggles tools how they're
overcoming their mental health issues and also arming them with
like accessible resources and education. So you know, I was
(27:48):
blown away by the initial response and I'm still like
pinching myself today as the Hidden Opponent nonprofit continues.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
To live on and grow this amazing community.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And for Mental Health Awareness Month, obviously this month, we
collaborated with Adidas on an ultraboose sneaker and some T
shirts and some shoes, and so it's it's insane, it's
so cool, and it wouldn't be possible if it weren't
for all of the other people who were like me too,
been there.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I want to help, I want to be a voice.
So I'm still in disbelief. Tiffany, It's amazing what you've built.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And you know, like we said, it started from this
this ted X talk where you were vulnerable and willing
to show what was happening inside you. So we mentioned
this briefly, but you know, we talked about how mental
health and athletes are starting to be more vulnerable with
their mental health. I've been you know, reading tons of
stories about athletes at all levels, high school, college, pro
(28:47):
who have come forward with their own struggles and their
own anxieties and depression and how they've overcome it. But
I'm curious because in your talk you mentioned how you
were hoping that you know that this would the conversation
would grow. So do you think that it's grown enough
or do you think that there's still more work to do.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I think it's grown astronomically.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's been so awesome to see I, even though I'm
not actively playing sports anymore, to see like Simone Biles
transparency at the past Olympic Games, and to see so
many athletes talking about this. I feel like the mental
health conversation has definitely become more of a common currency.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And I think topic just in all gyms and on
all teams.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Have we followed that up with Have we followed that
up with adequate resources and accessibility to those resources? Now,
you know, it varies at the levels. If you go
to a Division one campus like me, they could send
an email and get seen that week, and then some
of the Division two, Division three schools that I've visited
(30:01):
and spoken to, they might need to wait a month
or two and Unfortunately that might just be too long.
People want to be seen and they need help now,
and I obviously know that that's a greater issue that
a lot of people are experiencing, whether you're a student
athlete or not. So I think the conversation and the
destigmatization of the issue has gotten to a very impressive place.
(30:22):
And I think now something you know we're focusing on
the an opponent is how can we bring those accessible
resources to the same standard.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Since you've been traveling around the country and all over
discussing the hidden opponent and helping other student athletes, what
have you found is kind of the biggest issue that
a lot of them are still facing.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Well, I feel like there's added pressure with this whole
nil situation is very unique, and now a student athlete
might have an agent, or they might be trying to
build their brand, or they might now be needing to
send money back home. I just think there's a bunch
of additional and unique pressures that were still figuring out
what the norm's going to be and how things are
(31:05):
going to function in this new system. So I feel like,
you know, of course still seeing student athletes who are
struggling with the same pressures of just being away from home,
managing the really intense demands of the schedule and school
and training and lifting and traveling and competing, and now
with nil, I mean, it's a whole other part of
(31:25):
the mix.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
So I would say that's been the unique one that
I've seen come up more.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And when I was playing and doing YouTube and building
my accounts, I mean, I had very strict rules to follow,
So I can't even imagine what would have happened in
my brain if I thought that, like I, you know,
I if I could have started a business at the
same time I had to wait to do that, you.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Know, for sure? Do you see with like these student
athletes coming in and the one let's actually go back
to like high schoolers, you know, and this demanding schedule
that they're about to embark on when they do go
to college, do you see a path for them or
a way for them to fully understand what they're about
(32:12):
to get themselves into when they get to college or
is it still kind of one of those it's a
live and learn situation.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I think, like anything, you won't really know until you
get there and you're actually in it and experiencing it.
So what I think I would recommend is to ensure
that you have the support system around you, like almost
like this backup net to catch you if you do
feel really overwhelmed, if you do feel.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Really anxious or spread thin or burned out.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So making sure that you know where you can go
to get that help and support, I think is would
be really great because then you don't have to figure
it all out when you're already feeling like you're in
a low situation. So I would just say, you know,
being ready and prepared for like all all cases, but
enjoy high school. You don't need to go make high
(33:01):
school five times as difficult to make it less difficult
when you get called like, enjoy it now and then
trust that future you will figure it out and allow
future you to seek the help if you need it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And now you also started along with the Hidden Opponent,
you started a podcast, real pod, So talk to me
about that. Why did you decide to also get into
podcasting and you know, sharing your message that way as
opposed to just kind of doing just the foundation the nonprofit.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I love having deep chats with people, and how I
described the kind of connection before about like getting real
and getting.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Vulnerable and Oh my gosh, you felt that way.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
So did I, and so I thought that the podcast
would be a way to basically evolve what hashtag real
Post was. So it literally was like, we're going to
go from real Post to Real Pod, very simple name,
and hopefully I'm going to sit down and interview other
people who have something deep that they want to share
(34:02):
that's not so glamorous about their journey, that's not the
highlight reel. And so that was really the initial concept
of the show, and I feel grateful that it's I
think been five years and I've had some incredible conversations
with people. If anyone listening is not familiar with my podcast,
Real Pod, I recommend you start with an episode that
(34:26):
came out a few weeks ago called This Will Change
Your Life, a powerful conversation on Joy with Jeffrey Sod
who's a cancer fighter.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I know that that sounds like, oh my gosh, is
it going to be deep and like really sad and scared.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
No, it's going to make you live your life to
the fullest. I want everyone to listen to it, not
for me, for him. I barely talk. You just have
to hear Jeffrey sod story. But I mean, I feel so.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Grateful that, yeah, we have a place where people feel
comfortable to talk about what they're going through and listeners
can know we're all trying to be the best version
of ourselves and it's not always pretty.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I love it. I was looking at your episode list
and there were a few on there that I'm like, oh,
I got to listen to that one and that one
and that one. So I'm excited to dig into that. Well.
I want to say thank you so much for coming on.
I also, before we wrap up this interview, I have
two questions left, and the first one is just kind
of an open ended question, which is just from the
(35:20):
stuff that we've talked about, is there anything else that
you want people to know, especially student athletes athletes in
the pro levels, about mental health that is something important
that they should be focused on for themselves, or something
that you know they can take with them to try
to grow and improve themselves.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I mean, I would maybe just add that it's not
a weakness to seek help from someone else or to
struggle with your mental health. It's actually a strength to
have the ability to say the difficult thing, ask the
difficult question, admit that you need support navigating something.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I think it's far harder and.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Takes more strength to do that then it does two
pretend everything's okay.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
So, as an.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Athlete listening to this who always wants to be a
high achiever and strong and all the things, I would
encourage you to kind of if you need to flip
that mindset a little bit and recognize that it actually
is incredibly brave and takes a lot of strength to
prioritize your mental.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Health of that. And the last question I have, what
is your relationship with volleyball today? And are you still playing?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
If my friends are playing in Santa Monica Beach and
hit me up and I can go, I love to go.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I tried to gather some old.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Teammates and some local girls who played in the area
to start a beach thing, but it's like everyone's so busy,
and volleyball is hard because you need, like, you need
at least like four people on.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
A side, You need a net, you need balls, you
need to like you know what I mean. So it's
been difficult.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But anytime I get the opportunity to play, I usually
take it. But I missed it a lot. I wish
there were ways I could play more. I could go
to practice two nights a week.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I would do it. Someone invite me.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I'm like, if, honestly, I wish there was a local
I looked into this.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I wish there was like a local like West.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Side of LA like team and they needed me to
just play in their practice, because like I would be there.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
But I don't think it is squad. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I feel like you got a fine. I'm sure there's
some sort of league. I mean, I'm on the East
coast in Jersey, so we don't have like I mean,
they're with Jersey Shore, but I don't live on the
Jersey Shore, so I'm not near any beach courts. Plus
you can only play beach a few months of the year.
But I mean, I'm in an adult league beer league
right now, and it's awesome and I get to play
and still have fun and play with some amazing teammates
(37:45):
and people that I've become friends with over the years,
and it's like I still get my love, just get
my love.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
That I was thinking that League one should have you guys.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
They should do like a celebrity game, like you know
how like NBA All Stars They do like NBA players
and they bring in like random people like I think
that could be fun because like they're not that I'm
a celebrity.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
At all, but it's volleyball and you'd need to be.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Able to play well to scrimmage again, so it's like,
could they bring in like former like known volleyball players
from the NCUBA who don't play anymore?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Could they bring in YouTubers creators.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Like I don't know. I think that would be such
a fun like media event and I would definitely be there.
So I've had this.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I pitched this idea to our our CMA.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I mentioned.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I was like, maybe next year we should do something
like this, like a little celebrity No, you.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Should do what It would be so much fun.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I'm gonna I really would love, love, love for that
to happen, So we'll I'll make sure that we hit
you up if that actually happens, if it comes to
fruition to be included. By the way, speaking of celebrities
who play volleyball, supposedly, when I was doing some research,
supposedly Leonardo DiCaprio does beach volleyball every so often, so
(39:00):
maybe you should keep an.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Eye out for that. Really Okay, that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I suppose I don't think I sound too surprised that
Leonardo's hanging around the beach volleyball goals.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Well, suppose that he gets his buddies though it's not
just like not just like some some people on the beach.
It's like he gets his like other celebrity friends.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I could be completely wrong and that this could be
just be like a random blog post that I read.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I'll keep my eyes peeled at the beach and if
he's there, I'll recruit him to the Celebrity League.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
One game.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yes done, I love it. Well, Victoria has been a
pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much, and I
mean thank you for everything that you've done in your
openness and being able to come forward with everything, because
you have helped kick the door down for a lot
of other people to you know, be who they are
and to share who they are and to get better
(39:47):
if they need help.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
So thank you so much, so much, Tiffany, I appreciate it.
I really enjoyed your questions. Brought back some great memories,
and thank you for having me and for your time.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Special thanks to Victoria Garrick Brown. Thanks for listening to
this special episode of Serving Pancakes.
Welcome to a special episode of Serving Pancakes with League
One Volleyball. I'm your host, Tiffany Oshinsky. May is Mental
Health Awareness Month, and so I'm excited to have Victoria
Garrick Brown as my guest today to talk about the
importance of mental health. Victoria is a Forbes thirty Under
Thirty honoree, TEDx Talk speaker, mental health advocate, podcast host,
(00:23):
and a former Division one volleyball player who has amassed
over two million followers across social media, where she's known
for her unfiltered campaign hashtag real Post. Victoria was a
four year starter and PAC twelve champion for the University
of Southern California, where she finished her career with the
top five most digs in program history. When she was
(00:44):
a sophomore at USC, she shared her story of battling
and overcoming depression and anxiety in a twenty seventeen teed
X Talk, which has led her on this journey destigmatizing
the conversation around mental health and encouraging people to be
their unfiltered selves through her non profit, The Hidden Opponent. Victoria,
thank you so much for joining me on Serving Pancakes.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thank you, Tiffany I'm so happy to be here, and
I'm just excited.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
To chat with you, very excited to chat with you
because this is such an important topic. Mental health is
an important topic that you know, as you have learned
and you have talked about, is sometimes you know, stigmatized
as something that we can't talk about, that people are
afraid to talk about. So I actually want to start
this conversation at your twenty seventeen TED X talk because
(01:32):
I feel like that is kind of where this journey
that you've that you're now on kind of began. It's
where I feel like you're willing to all of a
sudden open yourself up and share your thoughts and everything
that's going on with your own personal mental health struggles.
So talk to me about the lead up to this
TED talk. What made you decide to do this?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, definitely, And you're right, like that was the domino.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
That changed the trajectory of my life.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's crazy that you just never know, like how something
is gonna affect your future. And I never sought out
to be a mental health advocate. I never thought I
would found a charity Like these were not things when
I went to college, I was like, that's what I'm
gonna be doing. I kind of thought I would be
a sports broadcaster because I liked media and I liked
being in front of the camera and I loved sports.
(02:21):
But I didn't really know and so as far as like,
how did I end up there if that wasn't the plan?
And I'm very type A. I always have a plan,
and I think a lot of elite athletes and follyball
players people who might listen to this podcast are similar,
Like you want to make the ones team next year,
then you want to get recruited to the same then
you want to be this position, and then this girl's
gonna graduate so you can step into the starting spot.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Like we always have a.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Plan, right, So I think I just felt like when
I got to playing Division and volleyball USC while it
wasn't dream come true and I would do it ten
out of ten times, again, I'm so grateful for my experience.
It was a lot more challenging than I have ever
imagined nor was.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I prepared to face.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
So I just started to really struggle with performance anxiety,
and you know when I wasn't able to figure out
how to cope with that, getting really nervous before games,
and just feeling like I was losing control.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Of like my mind and my confidence.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I didn't have the words for it because I didn't think,
you know, I could have been struggling with mental health issue.
And then I also thought that it was so stigmatized
that I didn't want anyone to know because I wanted
my teammates to trust me on the court. I wanted
my coach to keep playing me in the games. So
you know, I kept that to myself. And then because
I was suppressing my anxiety and not dealing with those
(03:39):
emotions that expedited might fall into a depressive episode my
sophomore year, and I just ended up getting to a
place where I was so low that I couldn't ignore
the struggle that I was in. And then once I
sought the help and I was going to a therapist,
and I was learning more about the fact that, hey,
(04:00):
I'm in a really high pressure environment. You're probably going
to crack at some point or break under the pressure.
And that's okay, a lot of people do. But here's
how we recover, right, Like, I started to put those
pieces together and feel less ashamed of what I was
going through. And so once I got to that point
that coupled with my like traditionally outgoing personality and like
(04:26):
I said, desire to be in media and write, and
I was studying journalism, I was like, we need to
talk about this story. So that was like something in
the back of my mind, you know, as I would
go to Annenberg and I would report on, you know,
our little news segment about what was happening with the
USC sports teams. But then I would think, this feels
like it doesn't matter, Like we need to go to
(04:48):
an athlete, grab their shoulders and say are you okay?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Like how are you feeling?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Forget about the game, forget about the points, like how
are you as a human being?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, That's what I was caring the most about.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And so as far as the TEDx talk, I was
sitting in a class on a Wednesday night and I
saw an email come through with the subject line I
say this all the time.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I've made it up over the years or it's just
I don't know if I've made it up over the
years because it's what it felt like to me, or
if it's what it really said. I think it's what
it really said, but I swear it said like, once
in a lifetime opportunity like ted X talk at USC
So immediately I was like, I'm zoning out of this lecture.
I'm copy and pasting the diary notes I've been writing
(05:30):
in my phone about these crazy days and all my
emotions and my feels, and I'm applying. And I got
called back, and I went through the process and I
actually got cut. At one point they were like, there's
too many teed X talks on mental health already, and
this was twenty seventeen. There were probably three. I mean that,
(05:52):
don't backcheck me on that, because I'm sure there were more,
and there are many amazing people who were like, you know,
paving the way for these conversations.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
But I was like, come on now, like I've literally.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Googled athlete mental health and really felt like I found
nothing on the internet.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Imagine that, like so much has changed.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So then when I did get like called back at
the last minute, actually, we do want to see you
one more time. I remember going in and being like
looking all of them dead in the eye and saying,
I don't know who you're interviewing and auditioning. I don't
know what their story is. I'm sure it's lovely. I
promise you that we need to talk about this. There's
a massive epidemic of an athlete mental health crisis. No
(06:33):
one's talking about it. And whether I scared them into
it or they bought my elevator pitch, they chose me
as one of the speakers. So I got to work
on write that deliver that ted X talk and had
no foresight that I would ever speak again publicly, or
that I would make, you know, lead me to become
this content creator, and that now I would have this
(06:55):
podcast in this like I never thought that. I just
got on that stage and was like, I hope this
helped someone. And I think the more of the story
there is like if you get to a place in
your life where you're so passionate about something and something
means so much to you, and every part of your
body is like this is what is important to me,
Listen to your intuition because you just never know where
(07:17):
it will lead you. And the last thing I'll say, Tiffany,
I'm literally been speaking for so long before I'll keep
going great.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I love this because this is the League one Volleyball podcast.
I need to say this.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
You know, I was really genuinely, like, I just hope
this helps an athlete out there who's also crying at night,
depressed and looking up athlete mental health on YouTube, like,
I hope they find this and.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
They feel seen. And literally, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
It was so this tedex talk, I believe came out
in like the spring, so it was the next fall.
We were playing Kentucky in the preseason and we finished
the game and we were like, good game, good game,
good game, and this one girl is like, good game,
good game.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I loved her.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Good game, good game, good game.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And I was like and that was like one of
those moments where I thought, Wow, you know, it's gotten
to this this person I scouted and I'm playing against
and we feel so different but we're the same.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
So I'll stop. I'll stop there and let you do
your job.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
No, but this is why you're on is to talk
about this and for us to learn, because I feel
like there's so much that went into the not just
the preparation to do it, but I mean everything that
you went through right to eventually get to having to
do this Ted talk and understanding that this was something
that was needed, and you know in your talks being
of things that were needed.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
I feel like, you know, there's that question where people
are just like, why don't you quit? Like, if this
is really that big of an issue for you, why
don't you quit? That's just a question that I feel
like is the next follow up after you're talking about
all these hardships that you're going through, and it's like,
I mean, I listen to your answer, but you know,
I didn't end up playing in college.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I ended up going to film school. But I can
I can see you know, at some point being like,
but this is who I am, right, So can you
just for the listeners of this podcast, you haven't heard
your to talk explain why you didn't quit and why
you kept pursuing.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I have not thought about this in probably years.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So I love that you asked this because it's like
bringing me back and it's making me chuckle a little bit,
because I will find myself looking at someone else's circumstance
or situation and thinking, just break up with them, just transport.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Just quit your job, just apply to the new.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Like it's so easy to look at someone's situation and
think it would be the solution is to, you know,
do something so drastic. But as we all know, we've
all been in these places when something has been a
part of your life for so long, you love it
so much, you focus on Like I said at the
top of the show, I would do it ten out
of ten times, and without a doubt it was the most.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I It's mental health month, so let's be real.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I've never I got to a place where I was questioning,
like if I wanted to to live my life. I've
never I've had struggles since, and I feel like I've
I've been through some things that have been really hard
post school, but I've never gotten to a place with
my thoughts where I've questioned, you know, do I want
to be here? And so it's like, but then I'm
(10:17):
saying I would go back and do it to Noay
at ten times because it brought me here, you know.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So it's like, why didn't I quit?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I mean because I honestly didn't even know if I
would be happier without it, Like I wanted to figure
out how to make this thing work. Of course, there
were times my mom came to an away game and
she saw me white as a ghost, looking I had
all these stress pimples on my face. All I did
was sleep. All I did was cry, and she was like,
(10:43):
that's it. I'm knocking on the coach's door. I'm taking
you off the team. And I'm like, no, you can't,
like we have a game tomorrow, or like I don't
want to like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So it was just it that just also didn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I guess I felt stuck, and I love to volleyball
so much that I wanted to figure out how to
make it work. And I was able to do that
by going to therapy once a week, getting on antidepressants,
opening up about my struggle so that I didn't feel
so much shame and I didn't feel so alone. And
(11:17):
I even took a brief mental health leave after my
junior season for a couple months and then returned to
play my senior season. So and then my senior season,
I did feel like I had the tools. I still
struggled and I had anxiety at points and whatnot, but
I was happier because I had a toolbox.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You know, going back to volleyball kind of being your identity. Actually,
I want to go like way back, because you know,
it took a lot of hours and a lot of
time to get to play in college, especially usc which
is one of the best teams in the country. So
I want to go back to young, young Victoria and
tell me how you first fell in love with the
(11:58):
sport and and it was fun when there was no
anxiety or depression. Tell me how you fell in love
with the sport and what made you realize that this
was going to be part of your identity.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I just get this visual of my middle school gym,
and I know, like we had a whole border down
and we were on the right side of the core
and we were playing volleyball. I think it like pe
And I just had a really natural standing topspin, which
is so funny for volleyball players, a standing topspin, where
do you ever.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
No one serves that way.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's like the easiest thing, But when you're in seventh
grade and you're whipping out a spinner, like pass it.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And so I just had a natural take to the game.
I loved sports growing up.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
I played pretty much everything, so when it came to
like choosing a sport, and I guess my older brother
was a professional golfer and he golfed at UCLA, so
I guess I had always looked at him as someone
who took sports very seriously and he kept playing, and
I always thought like, I'm going to play sports.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
You know, as long as I can. And so it
was a teammate.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
It was a classmate's mom who went to my mom
and said, oh, your daughter's really good. She should join
my daughter's club team. And we were like, what's club?
And then my mom was like, do you want to
do this? And I was like sure, and so, like
I had said before, I signed up. And then I
was like, oh my gosh, I'm on the twos team.
I want to make the ones team. Okay, this is
the coach, like, you know, this is the girl. I
have to be better then to make the team freshman year,
(13:23):
you know what I mean. And so I just kind
of got enthralled by the sport. And before I knew it,
I was like, I haven't played soccer in three years.
You know, it was natural. It just was the sport
that I guess won my heart in a sense.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Did you ever feel a sense of burnout in the
lead up to playing in college? Because yeah, I told
you this before we started recording, But I played, you know,
club ball. I was very competitive. My dream was to
play at Penn State. I you know, wasn't recruited for
a scholarship, but I did everything possible that I could
to go to Penn State. I went to all the
(13:58):
summer camps. I meet a business card when I was
thirteen and gave it to coach trust Rows at like
one of those camps. You know, I did everything. But
then when I was a junior in high school, kind
of similar to your junior year college, you know, I
remember driving to like a practice and I was just
miserable all the way down. And when I got to practice,
(14:19):
I sat on the sideline and I just cried because
I knew that I loved the sport, but I had
kind of lost the love for it in a way,
and and there was this, you know, sense of burnout.
So did you ever feel that when you were playing
and growing up, was there any sort of premonition that
maybe came to your mind that like that is a
(14:41):
mental health issue. Because when I was sixteen and this happened,
I had no idea that this was a mental health thing.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
It's me.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It was just like, you know, I've got to suck
it up, but I'm going to sit it out this
practice and I'll decide what I'm going to do eventually.
But you know, has have you ever felt anything like that?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I didn't before college.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
What you described sound similar to like what I went
through my freshman year of college. But prior to that,
I mean, practice days were my favorite. I was always
the one that was like in early out late, wanting
to play more. I loved the tournaments, but granted I
had a lot of confidence. I was one of the
best players on the ones team at the time, you know,
(15:19):
we were going to Jo's, Like, I loved our rhythm.
One of my best friends was on the team, like
it just was so great, and I, yeah, I just
I didn't have a thought of like sometimes I guess
maybe if like you know, we were at high school
and your crush came to watch you play, you know,
I'd be like, why am I thinking so much about this?
(15:39):
Or why am I one like how did my spike
or whatever it was. So I definitely had Now that
I look back, I can recognize moments of like where
I was probably starting to see I had the potential
to like really overthink or have anxiety while I was playing.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But never enough that it ever spooked me.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And actually my first in at USC, I brought that
energy in, like I was so excited for double days,
I mean the seniors. That was like the joke, you
know that, Like I just wanted to play and we
had two practices a day. It was like my dream
come true, you know. So then it was like the
stark contrast of that to then a few months later
feeling like my eyes, I'm about to cry before we
(16:22):
go out to the court because I'm so scared that
I'm gonna get served and.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I'm going to get asd like.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So that was why it was I think so jarring
for me is because I started to then be like
I don't even like who am I? Like, this is
so not me? And then you start to get upset
with yourself and you're like come on, like you know,
and then you just continue to spiral.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah, I can see that now. You said that when
you got to UFC, you were super excited, super happy.
You were one of the girls that came out there
and gave your you know, a game every single time.
But what was the moment do you remember the moment
where you realize that something wasn't right.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
When I think about this time in my life, there's
like moments that I remember vividly. There's things I don't remember,
like as just like don't have a great memory. My
friends and I always joke my best friend offvery We'll
be like, remember when you said this thing and were
this thing and we were in third grade and I'm
like no, I'm like, what do we even do this
past weekend?
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Like that's where my brain is. But something that.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Pops into my head is like a practice we had
where we were scrimmaging my freshman year. We were the
number one team in the country. We were undefeated, I
was starting, we had the national player of the year.
Like the stakes were high, and it was a scrimmage
and my side won the point, and like I thought
that was good. But then the whistle blew and you know,
(17:41):
the coach called us together or either came to me.
I forget, but like I basically got called out for
doing the wrong footwork, like on defense, like I made
the wrong read. And I think for me in that moment,
I was like, oh my gosh, we won the point.
I didn't even touch the ball and I made a mistake.
And like, because I'm so type a perfectionist, like care
(18:05):
so much, I think I then started thinking, oh my god,
like even if I don't touch though, even if we
win the point and we win the game, I still
could be like making mistakes. So I think that was
a moment for me where I really felt like, like
everything I do has to be flawless and this is
a whole different ballgame than club. And I will say like,
(18:27):
I think that I was mentally susceptible to have this
reaction to pressure. I don't look back and think someone
caused this for me. You know, it would be really
cool if I could have a play a month of
my freshman year, knowing what I know now and try
(18:48):
to use my coping mechanisms and breath work and journaling
and confidence stuff like I would love to try it.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I was just eighteen, I was young.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I had never worked on anything on the mental mindset
side of the game, and it was a very high
pressure environment and something with my personality and that chemistry mix.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
This was the reaction.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So I just like to say that because I don't
look back like thinking, you know, I bet it could
have played out this way at another school, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of athletes, especially you
see now, a lot of athletes are starting to come
forward and talk about their own mental health struggles and
it has nothing to do with you know. I mean,
it's kind of one of those just situations where maybe
thought that this was the right place, but there's just
external factors that made it not feel right or just
you know, you you thought you mesh but with the
(19:41):
coach or the players, but it's not actually right, and
you need to find how your brain works right and
how you know how to handle yourself and cope with
what needs to be you know, cope with how you
can handle the situation better. Right. I feel like a
lot of players. That's why the transfer portal is a thing, right,
and players can transfer two teams that they think that
(20:02):
they can actually mentally help themselves a little bit better.
But I mean, speaking of just players in general, did
you ever talk to your teammates about this, Like when
you got there, was this something that your teammates also
dealt with and talked about or was it something you
kept private and then went to a therapist on your
own or did the team help you.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I definitely had a teammate connect me initially with a
therapist at the health center, which was super helpful. For
me because they gave me that confidence of oh, if
she's going, that means I can go. And she was
older than me and we were in the same position,
and I just felt like seen that she related to
the stress and was like, and I also do something
(20:43):
to help me with it. So that was like my
first kind of crack crack in a good way where
I was like, oh, my gosh, okay, I'm not the
only one. And then it's funny because as I think
about my upper classmen years, the conversation on mental health
was so present and like, I think so much changed
over the from twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen when it
(21:06):
comes to the mental health conversation, and then we ran
into twenty twenty, Like, you know, I noticed it in
just my time.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
There where almost to a fault.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We were joking about being depressed and being down and
down bad and sad, you know, So I think I
saw I saw it go both ways.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Hey, serving pancakes listeners, Tiffany here with a quick shout
out from our friends at Adidas. We're in the final
weeks of our Love Pro season, which means it's your
final chance to grab the limited edition inaugural season player jerseys.
Show your support for your favorite players now at Adidas
dot Com slash US Slash Love. That's Adidas dot Com
(21:53):
slash Us slash l O VB. Hurry. These things are
going fast and once they're gone, they're gone. Don't miss
out on your chance to be part of history. Well,
I feel like another thing that you know. I'm older
than you, So my generation didn't grow up with social media.
I didn't have to worry about scrolling through people and seeing,
(22:15):
you know, what they're doing on spring break, or what
their bodies look like, or if my post didn't get
a hundred likes compared to somebody else's. Like, I didn't
have to deal with that. But you've talked about social
media and how that can really hinder and hurt your
mental health. So can you just talk about that. You know,
(22:36):
your perspective on social media and what it can do
to people, especially student athletes.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Definitely, you know there's so much comparison on the Internet.
It's so hard not to I'm guilty of it.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Still.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Now we're humans, we're constantly scanning our environment for threats
to make.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Sure that we're going to be okay, we're going to
be liked and accepted.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It literally goes back to our ancestors who would wake
up and think, I hope the tribe didn't leave without me,
Like I hope I'm hunting enough and I'm gathering enough,
and I am you know what I mean. It's like
in our blood to scan and make sure we're safe
in a million ways, and it can come up in
the most surface level way of like am I as popular?
Am I as pretty?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Am I?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You know?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
All these things.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So when I was going through I guess, this huge
dip in my life, it felt like with my mental health,
I started to just kind of question and think about everything,
and I realized that social media was contributing to this
narrative I had that everything had to be okay all
the time, and it was really just starting to not
(23:42):
edit my photos and not care so much about getting
the photo and being more real about what I was doing,
how I was feeling my thoughts. That started another small,
little like trickle effect with I guess how my Instagram
has grown over the years, because it definitely went from
(24:03):
like what I thought was me, you know, presenting picture perfect,
to then getting like not really making sense and being
a little more I don't want to say weird, but
to what was people posted a little weird and then
started to feel empowered once the ted x talk was
you know, I was getting messages and emails and feeling
(24:24):
really comforted that I realized there was more to share.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
So then I continued to do that on the internet.
And I still do that to this day.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
You know, I really try. If I'm not having a
good day, I don't maybe always have to say, hey guys,
this is exactly what happened, but I'll say not not
having the best day because I just want people on
social media to know everyone's not always happy, everyone's going
through things, and I like to, you know, have a
trust with anyone who follows me in the community that like,
(24:53):
you're never going to see anything filtered. I don't even
swipe right to Paris on my story, which that's hard.
It's hard some days, but I never do it, you know.
I'm just like, I would like you to know this
corner of the Internet, you're gonna see real content and
real emotions.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
That's where the hashtag real post came from. Mm hmm, yeah,
I like that a lot. I feel like there's, yeah,
this veil of fakeness that a lot of people put
on themselves when it comes to social media that they
want to make sure that they look the best and
all that, and like you said, everyone is susceptible to that.
Everyone goes through that. It's kind of like, how can
(25:28):
you get past that and allow yourself to be your
true self on social media and show who you really are?
Ups and downs? But obviously everyone wants to see the.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Ups right now, And it's like, I want everyone to
know there will be people who will like you, love you,
except you for you just being you. And I think
the biggest thing that we all crave is connection. We
want to connect with other human beings and feel seen.
And the only way that we actually if that's what
(25:57):
we want, how do we get there? You don't get
there by saying oh, I was the valedictorian and my
kids are perfect and my life is perfect.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
You don't relate to anyone.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
You get there by saying, oh, my god, today really sucked.
I just felt so stressed and like none of my
friends are showing up for me. And then someone might
say we I feel the same way. I'm so glad
you told me, you know you. The only way we
grow deeper in connection is through vulnerability, So I, you know,
think it's important to remember that as we think about
how we show up in the world and online.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So after your ted X talk, what happened? I mean,
talk to me about the response that you got from
people who watched it, from your teammates, from your family friends.
What was that response?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Like, I definitely felt so much support.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
My parents were there when I gave it, so was
my husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, and
two of my teammates came and my best friend was there,
and I felt really supported. I think I was just
also sort of blown away by how many people related
to it. I knew that the message served a purpose.
(27:05):
I think I didn't process like how big it could
actually grow. And I think the Hidden Opponent nonprofit is
a huge testament to that. You know, it's titled after
the tedex talk. And now we have a community where
you know, there's a campus captain, so a student athlete
ambassador in all fifty states, and I mean that's just
(27:26):
incredible that now we have this like national presence of
this next generation of advocates and student athletes who are
out there right now, they're playing right now, they're graduating
right now, they're being recruited right now, and we can
hear about you know, their unique struggles tools how they're
overcoming their mental health issues and also arming them with
like accessible resources and education. So you know, I was
(27:48):
blown away by the initial response and I'm still like
pinching myself today as the Hidden Opponent nonprofit continues.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
To live on and grow this amazing community.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And for Mental Health Awareness Month, obviously this month, we
collaborated with Adidas on an ultraboose sneaker and some T
shirts and some shoes, and so it's it's insane, it's
so cool, and it wouldn't be possible if it weren't
for all of the other people who were like me too,
been there.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
I want to help, I want to be a voice.
So I'm still in disbelief. Tiffany, It's amazing what you've built.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
And you know, like we said, it started from this
this ted X talk where you were vulnerable and willing
to show what was happening inside you. So we mentioned
this briefly, but you know, we talked about how mental
health and athletes are starting to be more vulnerable with
their mental health. I've been you know, reading tons of
stories about athletes at all levels, high school, college, pro
(28:47):
who have come forward with their own struggles and their
own anxieties and depression and how they've overcome it. But
I'm curious because in your talk you mentioned how you
were hoping that you know that this would the conversation
would grow. So do you think that it's grown enough
or do you think that there's still more work to do.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I think it's grown astronomically.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
It's been so awesome to see I, even though I'm
not actively playing sports anymore, to see like Simone Biles
transparency at the past Olympic Games, and to see so
many athletes talking about this. I feel like the mental
health conversation has definitely become more of a common currency.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And I think topic just in all gyms and on
all teams.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Have we followed that up with Have we followed that
up with adequate resources and accessibility to those resources? Now,
you know, it varies at the levels. If you go
to a Division one campus like me, they could send
an email and get seen that week, and then some
of the Division two, Division three schools that I've visited
(30:01):
and spoken to, they might need to wait a month
or two and Unfortunately that might just be too long.
People want to be seen and they need help now,
and I obviously know that that's a greater issue that
a lot of people are experiencing, whether you're a student
athlete or not. So I think the conversation and the
destigmatization of the issue has gotten to a very impressive place.
(30:22):
And I think now something you know we're focusing on
the an opponent is how can we bring those accessible
resources to the same standard.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Since you've been traveling around the country and all over
discussing the hidden opponent and helping other student athletes, what
have you found is kind of the biggest issue that
a lot of them are still facing.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Well, I feel like there's added pressure with this whole
nil situation is very unique, and now a student athlete
might have an agent, or they might be trying to
build their brand, or they might now be needing to
send money back home. I just think there's a bunch
of additional and unique pressures that were still figuring out
what the norm's going to be and how things are
(31:05):
going to function in this new system. So I feel like,
you know, of course still seeing student athletes who are
struggling with the same pressures of just being away from home,
managing the really intense demands of the schedule and school
and training and lifting and traveling and competing, and now
with nil, I mean, it's a whole other part of
(31:25):
the mix.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
So I would say that's been the unique one that
I've seen come up more.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And when I was playing and doing YouTube and building
my accounts, I mean, I had very strict rules to follow,
So I can't even imagine what would have happened in
my brain if I thought that, like I, you know,
I if I could have started a business at the
same time I had to wait to do that, you.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Know, for sure? Do you see with like these student
athletes coming in and the one let's actually go back
to like high schoolers, you know, and this demanding schedule
that they're about to embark on when they do go
to college, do you see a path for them or
a way for them to fully understand what they're about
(32:12):
to get themselves into when they get to college or
is it still kind of one of those it's a
live and learn situation.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I think, like anything, you won't really know until you
get there and you're actually in it and experiencing it.
So what I think I would recommend is to ensure
that you have the support system around you, like almost
like this backup net to catch you if you do
feel really overwhelmed, if you do feel.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Really anxious or spread thin or burned out.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So making sure that you know where you can go
to get that help and support, I think is would
be really great because then you don't have to figure
it all out when you're already feeling like you're in
a low situation. So I would just say, you know,
being ready and prepared for like all all cases, but
enjoy high school. You don't need to go make high
(33:01):
school five times as difficult to make it less difficult
when you get called like, enjoy it now and then
trust that future you will figure it out and allow
future you to seek the help if you need it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And now you also started along with the Hidden Opponent,
you started a podcast, real pod, So talk to me
about that. Why did you decide to also get into
podcasting and you know, sharing your message that way as
opposed to just kind of doing just the foundation the nonprofit.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I love having deep chats with people, and how I
described the kind of connection before about like getting real
and getting.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Vulnerable and Oh my gosh, you felt that way.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
So did I, and so I thought that the podcast
would be a way to basically evolve what hashtag real
Post was. So it literally was like, we're going to
go from real Post to Real Pod, very simple name,
and hopefully I'm going to sit down and interview other
people who have something deep that they want to share
(34:02):
that's not so glamorous about their journey, that's not the
highlight reel. And so that was really the initial concept
of the show, and I feel grateful that it's I
think been five years and I've had some incredible conversations
with people. If anyone listening is not familiar with my podcast,
Real Pod, I recommend you start with an episode that
(34:26):
came out a few weeks ago called This Will Change
Your Life, a powerful conversation on Joy with Jeffrey Sod
who's a cancer fighter.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
I know that that sounds like, oh my gosh, is
it going to be deep and like really sad and scared.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
No, it's going to make you live your life to
the fullest. I want everyone to listen to it, not
for me, for him. I barely talk. You just have
to hear Jeffrey sod story. But I mean, I feel so.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Grateful that, yeah, we have a place where people feel
comfortable to talk about what they're going through and listeners
can know we're all trying to be the best version
of ourselves and it's not always pretty.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I love it. I was looking at your episode list
and there were a few on there that I'm like, oh,
I got to listen to that one and that one
and that one. So I'm excited to dig into that. Well.
I want to say thank you so much for coming on.
I also, before we wrap up this interview, I have
two questions left, and the first one is just kind
of an open ended question, which is just from the
(35:20):
stuff that we've talked about, is there anything else that
you want people to know, especially student athletes athletes in
the pro levels, about mental health that is something important
that they should be focused on for themselves, or something
that you know they can take with them to try
to grow and improve themselves.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I mean, I would maybe just add that it's not
a weakness to seek help from someone else or to
struggle with your mental health. It's actually a strength to
have the ability to say the difficult thing, ask the
difficult question, admit that you need support navigating something.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
I think it's far harder and.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Takes more strength to do that then it does two
pretend everything's okay.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
So, as an.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Athlete listening to this who always wants to be a
high achiever and strong and all the things, I would
encourage you to kind of if you need to flip
that mindset a little bit and recognize that it actually
is incredibly brave and takes a lot of strength to
prioritize your mental.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Health of that. And the last question I have, what
is your relationship with volleyball today? And are you still playing?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
If my friends are playing in Santa Monica Beach and
hit me up and I can go, I love to go.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I tried to gather some old.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Teammates and some local girls who played in the area
to start a beach thing, but it's like everyone's so busy,
and volleyball is hard because you need, like, you need
at least like four people on.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
A side, You need a net, you need balls, you
need to like you know what I mean. So it's
been difficult.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But anytime I get the opportunity to play, I usually
take it. But I missed it a lot. I wish
there were ways I could play more. I could go
to practice two nights a week.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I would do it. Someone invite me.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
I'm like, if, honestly, I wish there was a local
I looked into this.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I wish there was like a local like West.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Side of LA like team and they needed me to
just play in their practice, because like I would be there.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
But I don't think it is squad. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I feel like you got a fine. I'm sure there's
some sort of league. I mean, I'm on the East
coast in Jersey, so we don't have like I mean,
they're with Jersey Shore, but I don't live on the
Jersey Shore, so I'm not near any beach courts. Plus
you can only play beach a few months of the year.
But I mean, I'm in an adult league beer league
right now, and it's awesome and I get to play
and still have fun and play with some amazing teammates
(37:45):
and people that I've become friends with over the years,
and it's like I still get my love, just get
my love.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
That I was thinking that League one should have you guys.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
They should do like a celebrity game, like you know
how like NBA All Stars They do like NBA players
and they bring in like random people like I think
that could be fun because like they're not that I'm
a celebrity.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
At all, but it's volleyball and you'd need to be.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Able to play well to scrimmage again, so it's like,
could they bring in like former like known volleyball players
from the NCUBA who don't play anymore?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Could they bring in YouTubers creators.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Like I don't know. I think that would be such
a fun like media event and I would definitely be there.
So I've had this.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I pitched this idea to our our CMA.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
I mentioned.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I was like, maybe next year we should do something
like this, like a little celebrity No, you.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Should do what It would be so much fun.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I'm gonna I really would love, love, love for that
to happen, So we'll I'll make sure that we hit
you up if that actually happens, if it comes to
fruition to be included. By the way, speaking of celebrities
who play volleyball, supposedly, when I was doing some research,
supposedly Leonardo DiCaprio does beach volleyball every so often, so
(39:00):
maybe you should keep an.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
Eye out for that. Really Okay, that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
I suppose I don't think I sound too surprised that
Leonardo's hanging around the beach volleyball goals.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Well, suppose that he gets his buddies though it's not
just like not just like some some people on the beach.
It's like he gets his like other celebrity friends.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I could be completely wrong and that this could be
just be like a random blog post that I read.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I'll keep my eyes peeled at the beach and if
he's there, I'll recruit him to the Celebrity League.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
One game.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yes done, I love it. Well, Victoria has been a
pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much, and I
mean thank you for everything that you've done in your
openness and being able to come forward with everything, because
you have helped kick the door down for a lot
of other people to you know, be who they are
and to share who they are and to get better
(39:47):
if they need help.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
So thank you so much, so much, Tiffany, I appreciate it.
I really enjoyed your questions. Brought back some great memories,
and thank you for having me and for your time.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Special thanks to Victoria Garrick Brown. Thanks for listening to
this special episode of Serving Pancakes.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.