Clearing The Air with Louis Van Amstel

In a previous podcast, Lacey Schwimmer opened up about being body-shamed during her time on DWTS and how comments about her weight attributed to Maks Chmerkovskiy and Louis Van Amstel in a TV Guide article broke her spirit.

Louis joins Cheryl to set the record straight. He reveals how a journalist twisted his words for a juicy headline, what was actually said to the reporter, why he never reached out to Lacey, and why he would never criticize anyone for their looks. 

The duo, who have known each other for over 20 years, have an honest conversation about the lack of body diversity in the world of dance, the tribute Cheryl didn't get an invite to, and what they wish the current judges would do more of. 

Plus, Louis reveals he wants to be the fourth judge on DWTS, details on his upcoming new podcast, and how his LeBlast Fitness is expanding! To learn more, you can visit lablastfitness.com. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, So I'm going to start this episode out
a little different than I have been in the past. First,
I want to admit that I haven't slept much over
this past week, as leading up to today's interview has
honestly given me so much anxiety as what I'm about
to discuss with my guests today and with all of
you is not my favorite subject to talk about. With

(00:20):
all of this being said, I wanted to be able
to first share my own personal story and experience when
it comes to body shaming and my take of what
happened to me back in two thousand and eight all
the way up too until now, and not only dealing
with all of the backlash that came from that time,
but also having to do it all in the public eye,
which you know, especially when I was still on the show,

(00:42):
dancing in front of millions of people week after week,
season after season, honestly up until I retired last season,
and having to do all of that with a smile
on my face has been really challenging, or had been
really challenging. My guest today is Louis van Amstell, and
as you guys know, I adore and will always be
grateful to Louie, as he was the reason why I

(01:03):
was even considered to be a part of the Dancing
with the Star's family back in two thousand and six.
I decided to have Louis come on the pod today
because he recently posted an Instagram video reacting to my
interview I did with Lacey Schwimmer a couple of weeks ago,
where we discussed body image and body shaming. First and
to be clear, when I mentioned both Louis and Max's names,

(01:24):
it was only so that I could read Lacey what
TV Guide had published back in two thousand and eight,
where both Max and Louie were quoted. First off, I
want to make this clear that my intention by bringing
that up to Lacey was not to bash Louie or Max.
My intention was to discuss body image and body shaming
in the type of society that we live in today,

(01:44):
especially when it comes to the workplace and specifically in
the entertainment industry that we take part in, and even
more so as professional dancers. Also, to be clear, Lacey
and I never got a chance to discuss being body
shamed at that time, and it has been close to
a decade since the two of us actually caught up
as I prefaced at the top of that interview with

(02:04):
her a few weeks ago. I'm pretty sure that was
made clear if you listen to the full interview, as
Louie and Max were only a teeny tiny speck of
what the subject matter and overall messaging was as a whole.
To be honest, I got pretty emotional during and after
my interview with Lacey, especially hearing how sad she was
when that article on TV guide came out and how

(02:26):
it honestly affected her both mentally and physically. Just a
little warning that all of this has left me feeling
super triggered and anxious for today's interview. However, because of
my love for Louis and our friendship, more importantly, being
someone who advocates for mental health and who knows the
importance of having these types of open and honest conversations,

(02:46):
I felt the need to do this today and clear
the air. My goal and intention with all of this
is to hopefully start these types of uncomfortable conversations that
are needed to be discussed so that anyone who may
feel insecure, who also deals with body dysmorphia or self hate,
knows that they are not alone. For those of you
who haven't seen the video that Louis posted about a
week ago, this is what he said quote. I was

(03:08):
made aware today that Lacey Schwimmer was on Cheryl Burke's
podcast and they were talking about two thousand and eight
an interview I did with Monica Rizzo, and Monica already
apologized to me because she twisted my words. I never
even spoke about Lacy or Cheryl or their weight. I
really feel bad for them that they were made to
feel so bad by that journalism. But I'm here to

(03:29):
tell you on the health of my sons, my family.
I never said anything about their weight. I love Cheryl
Burke Lacey, we never really connected. I would never shame
her on her body. So I apologized to you that
you were made to feel bad about that piece. It
just was not ever coming from my mouth. I respect
you as a dancer and you were great on Dancing

(03:50):
with the Stars, and I really don't know what else
to say. I never said those words. If I did,
I would have owned up to it. And here's to
anyone one that feels shame about your body. I am
the number one person that would stand up for you.
This is what I base my whole company on is
helping others and making others feel better about themselves again

(04:11):
last time, and I'm never going to talk about this
ever again. I never said anything about Lacey or Cheryl's
wait thank you. As you can imagine, this conversation will
bring up so many heavy emotions for me. The subject
of body shaming is really sensitive and traumatizing and an
all Transparency has been a continuous challenge for me to

(04:32):
process not just my feelings, but also to be able
to translate them into words. I know a lot of
you will be like, why aren't you over it? It
happened back in two thousand and eight. Well, I wish
it was that easy, but unfortunately, my body dysmorphia that
I currently deal with every single day is no joke.
I also feel like it's my responsibility, as a public

(04:52):
figure and mental health advocate to do my best to
be vulnerable and transparent when choosing to talk about my
experiences and tell my stories, even through triggering topics like
today's topic about body shaming and body image in general,
even though I may not have all of the solutions
or answers in my back pocket. The importance of shedding
light on this topic is what really matters when you
hear my conversation with Louie. There's not one day I

(05:15):
don't think about that time being body shamed, not only
in the workplace, but seeing and reading articles about it
as well. It clearly has left me scarred and still
is an open wound to this day. Before bringing Louis on,
I first and foremost want to express my love and
admiration for him, regardless of the past, whether or not
he said it. I forgive him and have forgiven him

(05:35):
a long time ago. Okay, and before we get started,
I want you guys to know that it's been a
few weeks since both Louie and I have interacted, text talked, etc.
Louis did not reach out to me prior to his
Instagram post, nor has Louis reached out to me personally
to discuss what he may have heard about my interview
with Lacey Swimmer, as I never knew how he felt
until I saw his posts like everyone else did for

(05:57):
the first time about a week ago. Let's get started.
Please welcome Louis van Amstell. So obviously I saw your
Instagram posts, Louis, and I first want to say thank
you for coming on this podcast and how much I
love you and I respect you regardless of any of
this stuff. I know, I know that's.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Why I said yes to want to talk about now
clear they are once and for all, even though it
was already cleared.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, and I really appreciate it. And I just want
also just to be clear with you and my listeners
that my new job title that means first of all,
that this is never about me these interviews. It's about
my guest. It's about, you know, stuff that maybe we
both have experienced or that person has experience. On Dancing
with the Stars. This is heavily about obviously the show sex,

(06:44):
lights and spray tans, right, hence the title. And you know,
with that comes some stuff that people may not want
to hear, and with that come stuff that is what
has happened in my guest's life and their own experience,
which is why with Lazy Swimmer, I'm not sure did
you hear the episode that I did with her? Did

(07:05):
you hear the whole episode?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
All? I did not, because of course we were in
LA for the tribute of Land, which I'm sure we're
going to talk about too, And then I came back
to quite a lot of family matters that I don't
really want to talk about, no worries, because I want
to keep it, of course dry. It really is, it

(07:26):
really is bad. So it was something else. So when
this happened, I just thought, no, I don't need this
on top of everything else. I never said anything like that.
So that's why I thought you and I are going
to talk about it. Ultimately. I love you, so I
wanted to hear from you too, like what happened?

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, So you know, with all due respect, look, it
would be nice if you did, if you could, maybe
you just go back and hear it, because really you
and that quote that was said, it was just a
little speck of what this.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Interview was about. It was about an hour and a
half long. You know.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Well we talked first about, you know, her dad just
passed away, Buddy Shwimmer, which I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
You heard our industry.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, and I haven't talked to Lacey since Oh my god,
I didn't know any of his stuff, but Lacey had
said in this interview, right, so I had. It's been
almost a decade, so we had a lot to catch
up on and during that time in two thousand and
eight when when all of that happened, it wasn't No
blame was pointed at you or Max. That was not

(08:28):
my intention.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
This was towards the end of the actual conversation an
interview with Lacey, and I read her the quote that
was published originally from Debra Starr from TV Guide okay,
and I said, people look at this show to be
inspired and think, if I just work hard enough, I
can look like that. Louis van Amstell, who in Dancing
with the Star season six was paired with Priscilla Presley,

(08:53):
told the new issue of TV Guide, if they watch
someone who's dancing her butt off and she's still heavy,
they can be discouraged. You have to take that responsibility.
Van Amsel and fellow professional Maxim Schmierkowsky spoke out about
Burke's weight and that of dancing newcomer Lacey Schwimmer in
the mag's new issue. Schmerkovsky, who was forced to leave
Dancing with the Stars earlier this season when his partner

(09:13):
Misty May trainer tore her Achilles Tendon, said he asked
the women to take stock of their figures at the
start of the season. When I first saw these women
this season. I said, you guys, you know the camera
adds ten pounds. Schmikowsky recounted, you have to do something
about this now. That was because I read that, because
I never heard from Lacey about how she felt about

(09:34):
during this time. That, by the way, still has had
a lasting effect, not your quote, but the domino effect
that this created. Whoever published this. Deborah Starr published this,
not Monica Rizzo, and then from then on it was
every publication, every magazine. It just still to this day, really,
it has continued on and even prior to this, Louis,

(09:56):
even in the dancing world, it's always been an issue.
My weight has in an issue, whether it's from my
coaches or whatever. And for me, the intention with Lacey
was to have a bigger conversation about body image and
body shaming. It wasn't to, you know, focus on this.
Lacey also was quoted saying that she would never throw

(10:16):
you in Max under the bus. She loves the both
of you, but at that time she felt sad, you know,
she really felt sad. I'm going to read you what
she said just so you get the context and then
we can obviously discuss everything.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
But she said, please yes, because I am wait, I'm
just letting you finish.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Thank you, No, for sure, and you can take the
stage here in a second, so she says. And it's
not Max's or Louie's fault. I'll never do that to them.
And when I'm nineteen years old and I'm excited to
do this brand new venture and be celebrated for something
that I worked for my whole life doing, to hear
people that I've looked up to. I used to train
with Louis by the way, my dad used to trade

(10:57):
him lessons for me, by the way. It literally broke
my spirit, and I didn't want people to know that
because again, like you said, I carried myself. I don't
let people in too easily. It ruined me. I remember
crying and crying. The only thing I can say that
was positive from that is that it put me and
you together, and it was the one time I felt
like I wasn't singled out. I was a part of
someone who was loved and honored on this television program

(11:19):
and we were both struggling with this issue. So from that,
it has definitely messed up everything.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, bessive aggressively, she is blaming us, but I'm going
to say it again on record. I never ever even
mentioned your name or Lacey's name when I did an
interview with Monica Rizzo, that's the only one. You never
did that with Throstar, Nope, and they all took it
from someone else. And once the ball is rolling, the

(11:48):
snowball gets bigger and bigger really fast, especially if it's juicy.
I would never ever body shame you, lazy, or anyone else.
My three time world dance champion partner, Jill, who you
know herself, is not your typical beach body dancer, and
yet she became a three time world champion. I am

(12:08):
so proud of that woman and you for how you
have dealt with the people that do do. I never
even mentioned your name. And one thing though, in two
thousand and eight when you went on Alan, when your
publicist SUMADORI made it sure that you had your moment

(12:32):
to share to help others. I was so proud of
you when you did that interview. I also talked to
you about it, and I made sure that you knew
that I never ever said it. I even believe last
year we talked about it again. So I have a
question for you, when you know from me that I
didn't say it. Why did you not tell Lazy to say, hey,

(12:54):
I can't say anything about Max, but I can't say
what I said. I never said it. Why did you
not tell Lacey Hey? By the way, Louis and I
did talk about it, and he swears to me that
he never said it again.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
But so this was not to again bash you. This
was just to start the conversation of something we both
experienced together, so that she could talk and be open
about her feelings because she had never discussed it. It
was not it was It was just me reading a
quote from TV Guide.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
I know, but all these people that heard that podcast
never heard anyone. I couldn't defend myself. You didn't say anything.
So those people think, oh, I guess they said it
because no one shared the contrary. And I hope, well.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Max, Max took accountability for his part.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
I am. I don't have to take anything again. No,
I'm not saying you should it because I never said it.
I never would. I build a whole brand based on
helping people that want to change their physical, mental, or
emotional self and I had Kelly Osborne in season nine.
I mean, if I were I believe you I hate

(14:04):
people that body shame others, So it would be so
greative me to say that. But I would like to
share for you and your listeners what actually happened, because
I remember it as if it was yesterday. Two thousand
and eight, we were on summer tour and Monica Rizzo
asked me to do an interview with her. I was

(14:26):
at Memphis Airport flying because we had a day off,
and she started talking and shared with me what was
going on.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
Wait, so Monica Rizzo for my listener, she's a journalist
that worked for People magazine that no longer works there.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yes, and she also was a professor. I don't know
if she still is. We're talking fifteen years ago. She
teaches journalism at UCLA at that time. So we talked,
and when she shared with me, she wanted a reply
from me. I said, was and I still remember it

(15:01):
because I pulled myself in and all of us we
all put on weight during the summer tour. Why because
we dance at eight pm. We don't want to eat
before we go on stage, so we have this bus
ride and then you start eating at wrong times. I myself,

(15:23):
I used myself as an example. I would eat steak
and fries at two am in my hotel room or
with skid breakfast because I would wake up at noon.
Things like that. I never mentioned your name, and because
I mentioned anything, they just pulled in my name to
that whole thing that was happening apparently with mex and

(15:45):
other people that were body shaming you and lazy. Then
on top I went back when I read it, I
went back to Monica and I said, Monica, you did
wrong here, and she apologized, and she uses this situation
as a professor at UCLA, and these are all her words,
not mine. That she says I made a mistake because

(16:11):
I was pressured by my editor so that I would
get juicy material and I was the one that had
to pay the price. So she apologized to me, not officially,
but for me, that was enough. I knew that I
never said anything and I never would. But she is
using that situation for future journalists to say, don't ever

(16:33):
sell your soul to the devil, keep your integrity as
a journalist. And I appreciate that she did that, but
ultimately I never said it. I never would, and I
would always defend people that are body shamed. Yeah, no,
I hear you.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
And by the way, Louis, I love you. Like I
said at the top of this interview, I forgive you
for whether or not you said it or not.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Does it matter right?

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Like really AGAINA does, But I'm telling you that it's
there's no hard feelings with me, just so you know.
Now with Lazy, she's not here obviously to whether or
not she still feels that, but from the interview, she's
not even worried about it.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
But what we really.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
Want to discuss is just in general for women, especially
in this country. You know, body image and body shaming
is a real thing, especially in the entertainment industry that
we work in, and being underrepresented, especially on a show
that we both were a part of. You know, Lacey mentioned,
for example.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Part of it. I still want to go back. I
love that show.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Oh no you are I said that we were. Oh sorry,
mind you that you are a part of that. I
was a part of the Sorry. Yes no, I love
the show too, But I'm.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
When Lacey in her and I wish she was on
so we can actually clear the air when she says,
I'm not blaming them or Louis and he was my
teacher and I did take one or two lessons from
Buddy Swimmer when we were back in Europe. And if
she was that person, she never once came up to

(18:12):
me and say, Louis, did you say this? I mean,
how many journalists changed the truth just to sell papers,
just to get more subscribers. Lacey never once came to me.
I made sure I came to you. You and I
have a very long history. I wanted you to know

(18:33):
from me right away in two thousand and eight. I
never said it, I never will, and I'm proud for
you to go and alan to use that platform to
help others. And I live in the fitness industry. Share only, Yeah,
I do this every day of my life. I have
my own podcast now, I am doing webinars every month.

(18:54):
What do I do to help people with their mental, physical,
and emotional self? And quite honestly, I think you are
healthier than people that are size zero or size two,
and let that be to all the I don't think
size zero is to size two or four really healthy.

(19:16):
But because of society, all the commercials, everyone you need
to be X y and Z no. You need to
be happy with who you are and if that is
size zero, size eight, size ten, or any size. It
shouldn't matter. Don't judge a books cover and always have it's.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
It has not you or not Max specifically, but because
of with a platform like the show, obviously this was
a bigger deal and I'm still dealing with it to
this day. When it comes to body dysmorphia. You know
that about me, and it has again started way before
Dancing with the Stars, right, but has obviously enhanced and

(20:01):
it has really exaggerated this whole when I look at
myself in the mirror, which I'm currently working on. Like
even my therapist said to me a couple of days ago, like,
you know, we haven't even talked about this body dysmorphia
that you're suffering from, because whenever my therapist brings it up,
it is a sensitive subject, like I get very I'm
full of anxiety when it's brought up, and it has

(20:25):
everything to do with what I can do, you know,
to have more self respect and to really believe in
my own beauty. And what I see is not what
everyone sees in the mirror.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
It's so.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
It's like I see a different figure and it's not
necessarily the best, right, So from.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
You, you need to work on that because I am
working on it currently. Gorgeous, very intelligent. You are stubborn
as f uc k, and you are a force to
be reckoned with and you have to work on that. Yeah,
because you need to open Well. You are doing it

(21:04):
because you're part of Iron Radio with your podcast, So
keep doing what you're doing. Just know I'm your supporter
when people say, just let it go. In a week,
no one talks about this, and I'm not that person.
And luckily my publicist and very close friend, Jay Schwartz

(21:24):
was with me. That's why we both said we want
to I want to talk to you. Yeah, because I'm
not afraid I have Because I'm a supporter of everyone
needs to be home inside their own body and when
the lights turn on, they need to be happy with
who they are. I agree.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
And when you know, going back to the tour thing
and like that whole thing that was taken out of context.
You know when you said because it's interesting because what
I read was that we weren't on tour was the
quot Obviously they now I know they flipped your words.
But why do you think that the women, like women
in general, make the headlines about weight gain versus men?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
I think quite honestly, there's a lot of jealousy and
there's a lot of preconceived idea you have to be
size zero or two. If you're size four, that's already
your only life.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
I was a size when this happened, which is crazy, right, Well.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
There you go, it is it is. But really, if
you look now fifteen years later, I am happy to
see where it's going. It's just the Hollywood industry is
slow going when it comes to that. But as people,
we have to not buy it. And I think it's happening.

(22:44):
We don't have to buy that you have to be
size zero or size two. You shouldn't have to. And also,
quite honestly, being in the fitness industry, I can call
myself a fitness expert. That is not healthy. You need
you need, I mean I really, and again, if you
want to look up pictures of Julie Fryer between nineteen

(23:05):
ninety and now, you'll see that she has a very
similar body type than you and Lacy, and you're all winners.
I can't. I haven't talked to Lacey. I'n like you
fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
But why didn't you reach out to Lacey when all
this went down or you guys just don't have that
type of relationship.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
No, we don't. I mean no, there is more there is,
There is no relationship. There none In season nine with
Kelly Osborne, who was dealing with her own stuff, there
were too many things going on that showed other sides.
And but that's not what this is about. I wish
her well. I never even mentioned her name, and I

(23:48):
wouldn't ever say anything about anything body image. I can't
say it enough.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Right, No, no, no. And also this is not an accuse,
not here to. I'm not accusing you. I'm just telling
you the context of how it was brought up, honestly.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
And you also know how social media works. If a
statement is made, the general public can make up their
own opinion. And that's the whole point, totally. Absolutely. You
know when you say, hey, there was no foul or
harm or there's not that there is no blame.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
But nobody, nobody even mentioned that in the interview with
all with with social media, it wasn't The focus wasn't
on you or Max. It was the focus more on
how Lacey was quoted saying how when she was a
size too that she was put in like the Macy's performances,
or she she was treated differently than when she was
a size six, or like when one of the producers

(24:42):
walked into her fitting and said, put fishnets on stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, well I wasn't there, and it's, uh, yeah, that's
Hollywood for you.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
So do you think that in the dance world, like,
do you think that the show could be better represented
as far as different shapes and sizes go, or like
the dance world in general.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
The dance world in general, I believe so. On Bravo
there was this reality show about pro am. Yes I
saw it. I didn't see it though. Was it good?
I mean, one one of them I think ruined it
by saying all the pro dancers are giglos and we
have to pay for everything for them. And then I thought, okay, well,
if you're enjoying his hobby, why would you throw all

(25:36):
the pros under the bus and make them all look
like giglos. No, you can say no, I don't want
to pay it. Anyway, she was not the person I
wanted to refer to. There was another lady that really
had an issue with her own body type, but she
was the better dancer, but she was always in the
back of the final and she was speaking out on
that she believes it is because of her body image

(26:00):
she was a better dancer. And look the judges, they
have their own criteria. Is it wrong to judge someone
on their body image? I mean I look at dancing,
and I have proven to myself that when I judge,
I look at the dancing. If someone is a size bigger,
I will look at Okay, how do they behave themselves?

(26:23):
If they're happy with who they are? I love it
because they're making a point to say I am happy
like you mean, like from within. Yes, then I applaud that.
But if they are not happy with themselves and you
see that in the expression, and then on top of
the being compared to size two versus being size eight,

(26:47):
then I'm thinking, well, what's her story? How can we
help her with her story. I still wouldn't judge her
on her body image, but I would think, hey, what
could she do to change her mentality so she comes
out stronger and could say part of my language, key world,

(27:07):
this is me. You're gonna take me who I am?
And this is what I would say to people that
are not happy inside. Find a way, and if it
means you want to lose twenty pounds, then lose those
twenty pounds because you want to, not because of pressure.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
How do you do that when all you see, for example,
in the Ballroom World, people who are the top seven
in the world, they are not necessarily right, they're not
necessarily cly.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
They're like this, right, and they're born like that.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
But I could never be like this even if I
freaking wanted to, because I have hip bones, right like, they're.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Not going to take Cheryl. Let's take you because we've
been on the show. I mean, of course you've many
done many more seasons, but since season two, we've been
on there for a few many seasons together. There are
people that have been really critical of your weight. But
look at all the people that you have behind you,
the people that say we support you, we identify with you.

(28:06):
That's really and and here look at me. When I
get one criticism, I go by that one. It ruins
my day. While there might be hundreds of positive I
get it. It's so easy to help someone else getting it,
but ultimately, you know, we we have to. So for me,
I've headed the opposite. People might say there's something wrong

(28:28):
with him, Oh he's too skinny. Is he sick? I
mean the opposite happens too. Yes, yes it is. But
let's say people that are that have issues with anorexia
and bulimia, they're too skinny, we think are they sick?
Well yeah, but not by choice. It's we don't know

(28:49):
someone's life. And now being an adoptive father having kids
from the foster care system, I've learned to judge even
less or judge but how can I turn and help
this person rather than oh, they have a problem, Well,
they have a problem, but how can I help it?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
We never know what's going on behind closed doors with anybody,
even if we have a smile on our face.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Huh. Oftentimes when you see the smile, you know what
are they not sharing? And I have that with one
of my sons right now. Yeah, lovey dovey. But that's
the point that I'm worried about. But being in the
business I'm in right now, I see this a lot
because I go a lot and do these in person classes,

(29:32):
the on demand program. I do talks afterwards and to
read what people go through, what we all go through.
But somehow, the message you know, that I can give
is that our body, our own body, is the most
important and most expensive house we own. You have to

(29:54):
take care of it for the rest of your life.
And unfortunately we work too much on the one see
not on the two that we don't, the mental and
the emotional self.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
The soul, our insides, like it's the intuition, like your body.
Our bodies are so intelligent that I for sure can
speak from my own experience that I tend to listen
to my mind more than my body. When my body
is telling me whether it is make this decision or not,
don't drive down this valleyway or whatever it is, it
it really does give a signal it is you know,

(30:26):
the body takes the score is a book and it
is so right about like when it comes to trauma
as well, there's a feeling that your body will tell
you when if you've gotten over something or if you
haven't dealt with it, and it does keep the score.
You know, I have trauma and my body from god
decades ago. But really, until I face it and really heal,

(30:48):
it's never going to go away. And it's just we
haven't even figured it out yet because it's so complex
and so beautiful, and yet I tend to and I
think most people, especially in this country, we don't listen
to our bodies enough.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
There's not enough body awareness, I think. And I have
a question for you, and you might not feel comfortable answer.
I know you since you're fourteen or fifteen, don't have
the same body, though I swear to God I have
the same body. You have the same body. But you've
shared some things in the last ten years with the
public that you kept inside of you for at least

(31:24):
twenty years, like my addiction, addiction, but also the fact
with your biological father, it doesn't matter if it's abusive child.
There is adversity that has happened to you, and you
kept that for twenty years to process that. It's not

(31:46):
going to be a day, a week, a month, a year.
It's for the rest of your life. And that's okay.
And I think the more you keep doing that, the
more that the image of yourself will change too, because
I'm sure they're a shame. There's guilts, Oh my god,
there is beyond. I mean, you wonder twenty years later,
are people going to believe me? Are they going to
think I'm using it to gain well?

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I mean I gaslight myself all the time, you know,
like sometimes I'd convince myself that it didn't happen because
I don't want to deal. And that's also when I
was in abusive relationships, like actual relationships. And then from
when I was a kid, testifying against my molester wasn't
the easiest thing in the world, obviously, and I even
then I remember gaslighting myself like this guy didn't hurt me,

(32:29):
Like why am I doing this?

Speaker 2 (32:30):
You know?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
So there's a lot of a lot of issues that
I have held in my body. You're right, and which
is why I haven't stopped therapy because it's been really
hard for me not to feel them, but it's been
hard for me to translate my feelings into words. That's
been very challenging for me because I do. This is
why dance has saved my life, because I wasn't I
was able to express myself through movement. I just wasn't

(32:53):
able to express myself through my words. Do you remember
like I couldn't talk.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
I look, I've been alongside you for a long time, yes,
But now in the end, when you said you referring
to the addiction, no, I'm talking about when you were
competing as a ballroom dancer, when you were in New
York City when we were sitting next to each other
on that couch before you joined the show in season two.
You know those feelings. You have to go through it,

(33:21):
and I think most of us we throw it under
the rug. I did know, but I was quite young
when I was reading a book and it was this
lady in her forties. She had a headaches, headaches well
into her forties. Turned out, long story short, when she
was a kid, she was a babysitting her brother. They
had to go past a friend. He was playing kickball soccer.

(33:46):
The ball fell or ran onto the road. He ran
onto the road. The girl was upstairs when she came down,
saw her brother dead. Was hit God. While she was
a young teenager, she felt so much guilt and shame

(34:06):
that when she was in her forties and fifties, it
came out that she felt so guilty she never could
face her parents, and then her parents both passed away.
She could never close the so she never told her parents.
After the shame towards the parents, the guilt, so she
wrote a letter and her headaches were gone. I thought,

(34:30):
I am not going to wait to deal with my
emotions because they're relating to my parents with their alcohol
and stuff, and I didn't want to deal with it.
So that's why I'm such a believer of going through it.
Don't put it on the rug because it's worth it
in the long run. It's painful to have to go through.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
And it's more painful actually because I've started to really
try to be conscious of what I'm trying to do
as much as possible. Obviously I'm not present at all times,
but I'm like I to see where, Okay, do I
choose quickly? Do I want to face it or do
I want to run away? And I'm such a professional number.
If it's not alcohol, which obviously I'm still sober, but
then it could be just staying busy. I am addicted

(35:12):
to staying busy so I don't have to face my
feelings or face whatever is coming up. But really it
only takes five to ten it goes away. It's like
waves of the ocean, you know. The feelings come and go,
and then I start to make up this fake reality
in my head. Then it's like the question is do
I believe in my own reality? And even though it's
not the real reality of the situation, there's so many
different layers and dynamics of it. But then I realized

(35:35):
it's so much less painful to just face to face.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
It because you feel so much lighter afterwards. Yes, and
you still. I think the podcast, too, is a great
way to share with the world your therapy. I did
a podcast yesterday about fear and doubt and I went
back to nineteen ninety two and I was balling, bawling.

(36:01):
I could stop it, and I'm thinking, you know what,
am I going to redo this? And then I thought, no,
this is real. It's it's it's real. So what is
your podcast called. It's going to be Louis van Amstell.
I love it for filming some right now and now
we're going to launch soon. Congratulations, thank you. It's it's

(36:23):
been therapeutic, right, that's why. And I've been after my
workouts on demand workouts, I would have a five minute talk.
It would take a subject and it's mostly again funny
that we're talking about body shaming and body weight because
I am always say stop judging yourself, but start looking

(36:44):
at one thing you can change today, or hey, look
what you just did. You burned six hundred calories, or
hey I talk about frame or talk about any subject matter,
and then I thought, well, why am I not turning
these into actual podcasts. I do them anyway, but only
for our on demand members.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
So I'm happy to hear that you are talking about
it because in the Instagram video I saw you're like,
I never want to talk about this again, but I
think it's so important to talk not I think you're referring. Now,
I understand it's back to the quote you and I
thought you meant in general, but like, yeah, I think
it's important to have this conversation.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Okay, I just get a message, and I'm going to
have to do some research. I had two people that
I was friendly with, and it was indeed Debbie and Monica.
I need to confirm with Jay. I still believe it
was Monica, but TV Guide published it though, yes, but

(37:41):
so many did. I need to confirm that it was
Monica who is the journalist that UCLA no no for me,
because it would also not be fair if people would
reach out to Monica and say you do that, because
she did it and she apologized Jonniica Rizzo, she helped me.
She wrote my book for Monica. We love you Monica,

(38:03):
but she's with long hair. The glasses right.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
No, she didn't have long hair. No, that's not Monica.
I think that's that's Debbie.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Okay. Then then Monica had short hair, no glasses. Okay,
but a little but like a little curly long ash
but not long long long. No, but I know.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
But Deborah Stara has longer hair, darker, longer hair with
she wore glasses.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
That's her. Okay. Then it was Debbie, not Monica. Apologies Monica.
It was Debbie and Debbie Cybell.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
She doesn't work for TV guy anymore. But her full
name is Deborah Star. People called her Debbie anyway.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
I am really happy that I cleared that because that
will be so unfair if I would talk about a
complete different Yes.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
So yes, and and Monica doesn't work in this business,
I don't think anymore. She works for the children's hospital
over here in La so ah.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Well, I did, like both ladies. It's just what she did. Yes,
And this is I guess too that journalists are pressure too,
because everyone wants to keep their job, you know. And
that's what she did.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
With Dancing with the Stars and the dancers. Look, there's
not a lot of representation when it comes to different
types of body bodies physical bodies on the show, I
would say, now, you know the women are all very tiny.
Do you feel like this show could use maybe more
of a voluptuous type woman to be representing the pros more?

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, I mean yes, but I oh as far as
prosa And this is me giving my opinion based on
that I see is what they've been doing more is
more aware of the diversity of ethnicities, which to me
I only applaud the show for now. If they want

(40:16):
to be and diverse in ethnicity and diverse in body types,
you have a very small pool of professional dancers to
pull from. Look, you have thousands to pull from. But
they also have to have the personality that people would
like at home. There are so many variables, and I'm

(40:36):
not defending anyone or attacking anyone. I'm just looking at
it from a production point of view. So you're free
to have your own opinion. You know, no, But that
opinion is that because my own business, where you deal
with all body types, all ethnicities, whether they're red or blue,
or they are gay or straight, it doesn't matter. But

(40:58):
diversity is key. So could they have a dancer, But
then again, do you know of any pro dancers that
you would suggest to the show.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, I mean, I did you know me. I have
been in the competitive world for a while, but back
in the day, I'd say, there's like Sila me Lacey,
you know, Sheila Parish I think was.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Her last name.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
And then there was also like oh, Fabian was his name. Yes, yes,
so I'm talking about that generally. I don't know now obviously,
but yeah, there was for sure.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yeah, but to me, these were all great dancers and
good shape. I don't think that. I just mean more
of a curvy because it's you know, there is a difference.
There is a difference. Well, someone I know retired, Well, yes,
I know that. I'm very well aware. Louis you made

(41:59):
that speaking of so you could have been representing, well,
I was.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
I would think, look, Racey would go back, but she
was not. She was not let go.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
She made that clear as well, which I had no
idea about that. I thought it was her decision.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Well that's what I thought you did, because I texted.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
You it is my decision. It was always my decision
to leave the show, but not for lazy I.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Was talking about. Never mind, I thought you were to
three weeks ago never mind, oh.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
I would let No, we're going to get there. We're
going to get there, so okay, so speaking of let's
just get there now. The reason why I want you
to know personally because I am very grateful for your
text message because you are one of two people who
have reached out to me, which I take near and
dear to my heart. And the only reason why I
didn't respond is because when you text me this, I

(42:49):
had no idea that it was in the press. Okay,
but what I did know was that it wasn't my
decision then that was my heart was. I had to
take care of my mental health first. And I don't
want to make this about me, because this is about
Len Goodman. But I don't want to make this about me.
But what we should discuss is what that text. I

(43:09):
just want you to know that I love you so
much for reaching out, and you know, you really know
who your friends are when this type of stuff happened.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
Have many more friends when you go up. There are
many more friends when you're no longer in the spotlight.
And I don't want to ever be part of that.
And you know that, and that's why I reached out
because again, in one point some even though I'm the
oldest pro of all pro ones counting, and I don't
and I don't care. I feel great for my age.

(43:40):
You look amazic. Anyway, when we were there, I was
just rehearsing, and of course I heard rumors and let
do I hear it, but I I stay out of
that because maybe that's the maturity level. But then afterwards
I heard, okay, it was in the press, then it
was online, and then then you talk with Lacey, and
then I thought, oh, okay, okay, and.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
I announced it all my social media that I was
not invited, So it wasn't like a thing. It was like, okay,
they just picked it up from my social media, like
because I wanted to be clear that I wanted to
be I of course would have never said no to that,
you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
And I and that is from a business point of view,
that's between you and the show, because absolutely and I
do not want to be part of that. No, it
wasn't just you and Lazy on your podcast talking about it,
but then it was also we were talking about we
weren't talking about oh oh it was Lazy. No, two

(44:39):
separate I guess these were two separate things but then
also Sharna or you were in a picture with Seanna anyway,
and her fiance came out and said.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, no Brian said what he said? Yes, yes, but
I was not in on any of it. I just
knew how I felt, and that was only my responsibility.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, So then we were joking in the rehearsals it
was the current pros and the ogs and with Oge's
or the old Guys or the originals, and of course
that's what we were joking with it. And then once
he came out defending Sharna and why was she not on?

(45:21):
I just started raising the question, who said that, Brian? Oh, Brian, yes, yes, yes, yes,
Brian said that. I think she did too. But then
he stuck up. Good for him to stick up for
his lady. But I just started wondering, Okay, we've had
about thirty pros over thirty two seasons, and we've had

(45:41):
quite a few in the first three that were originals
that Sharna wasn't part of, that Lacey wasn't part of,
and so they're they're not though so but exactly so,
I was just thinking when I saw Brian's peace at
Teching show, I was thinking, yeah, but what constitutes yeah,

(46:04):
is that the first season? Because then right, you're right, yeah,
is it the first two? First three? Where do you
draw the line? Where do you? Where do you? What
do you think? Well, I started thinking about it and
I thought I could say, well, then it would be.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Very not me or Sharna, right because I wasn't a
part of the first season.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
No, But then Max, then Charlotta Jorgenson exactly who no
one probably remember she was with Johnno Hurley, she was
great up with him and she did one season nik Kosovich,
John nik Kosovich. Where the hell's Ashley dol Gross exactly.
So if you talk G O G, it would have

(46:50):
been myself, editor, Jonathan Roberts, Ashley Grosso, Alec Alec, and
Charlot Organson. Those six are the original six and you
you are part of that group. And but and again
it's between because I don't.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
It's not even between us, Like honestly, I didn't even
get a call none of it. Now, now, do I
have a conspiracy theory? Absolutely? Now do I know it's
the real fact. No, But like regardless, Louis, it's okay,
it's okay. It's like this is the bigger picture, is
that it was beautiful. I loved every single moment of it.
It got me so emotional and the only thing that

(47:32):
I wanted to ask was how was that experience?

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Because it looked beautiful. It was so bittersweet and beautiful, amazing, chilling,
chilling because I got chilled. But I'm not doing it
to rub it in that you weren't there. It doesn't matter.
This is not rub it in all you want. No,
I'm not. I'm not saying it. I'm I'm answering, yes, please,

(47:56):
and I'm curious to be Look, did I see Max
last season when it was on? He came in. I
saw him. Mark was on last season, So we've already
seen each other. But I haven't seen Kimmy four years. Karina,
I have here with her before Dance with the Stars.

(48:17):
I haven't seen her in years. Editor, I haven't seen
her on social media. Yes, but yes, and Tony Tolani.
So we had a great time. So there are two
three different things going on. We had a great time
busting each other's balls and like days and in rehearsal

(48:38):
did have us not listen? We were giggling, throwing each
other under the bus. It was just like old times.
Oh my god, spacing, spacing, yes, oh my gosh, you aware,
be aware, yes, all of that. But then you know,
the last move we had to all do our arm
and I was I was ugly crying the moment that

(48:59):
happened the time and we turned towards the judges table
and there was this spotlight on that table with a
silver hat. I mean, from all that, all that to
ugly crying every single time, and there was a beautiful
moment on Tuesday, no Monday, camera blocking. It happened again

(49:23):
on that moment and now Conrad Green was sitting in
Bruno's seat and Alfonso was sitting in Len's seat, just watching.
And when we turned to see both of them bawling
now again balling to see them so we're all in
this together. It was beautiful. It was beautiful, but it

(49:49):
was sad, but it was also beautiful.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Like this is what Len would have just given an
eleven if he could, you know, like he would have
appreciated this, especially the last seasons because when by the way,
as a fan now watching the show, to see such
authentic not simple because it ain't simple, but like to
do see what we all do best, come together, and

(50:13):
the simplicity of it was perfection. It's like there was
nothing else needed, Like never, never, ever, never did they
ever have to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
And I think Conrad is doing a great Conrad Green,
our showrunner, is doing a great job in slowly but
surely bringing it back to it's.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Yeah, because I'm not so sure that would have happened
without Conrad Green.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
You know, it wouldn't have one other thing that was
so when Dina texted me, Dana Katz, our executive producer
and casting director, texted me if I want to be
part of it. I was supposed to be in Europe,
so I said, I cancel Europe boom quickly. I want
to be part of this, I asked her. Is Sue

(51:00):
Len's wife going to be there? Well, probably not anyway,
two minutes before we go life, she was sitting there
in the audience, So Sue's Len's wife, Sue was in
the audience and came up to us, and of course
he was full of emotion and grateful. What a great

(51:22):
way to ultimately celebrate his life. Yes, with his favorite song,
his favorite dance, the English Walls, you know, to celebrate
a British man who has done so much for all
national TV and for dancing in general. It's did you

(51:42):
have look when he retired during last season? I hugged
him to look beautiful, Bud. He felt so frail. Did
you have any idea? No? I could tell he was
in pain, but I don't know if it was emotional.
I didn't really know.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
All I knew was that when he announces his retirement, obviously,
I thought to myself, well, he just wants to spend time.
He's always mentioned his son.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I just thought, well, he's how many years has he
not done just the United States Dance with the Stars,
but also the BBC Strictly Come Dancing. They would get
on a flight Wednesday morning, judge the show in England
on Saturday, fly back to Los Angeles to do the
show here, and do that for multiple seasons. I just thought,

(52:28):
like you you mean, yeah, it's just time. He's late seventies, right,
late seventies. It's time for him to enjoy the last
years of his life. Not knowing that he was in his.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Last I mean, I just to hear that he was
in hospice was really shocking to me because I didn't
realize how bad it was. Yeah, and then to hear remember,
is he pick our old show show on her back
then she wrote this beautiful tribute saying how hard of
a worker Len is, and that if it wasn't for Len,
basically that the show would have never happened. It was

(53:00):
because he was like the through line with it, all right.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
And what I.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Appreciate about Len just in general, is that he never
he was the same person on and off camera. There
was nothing like he wasn't just turning it on. He
was just as funny and harsh and all of it.
And he's just no matter what believed what he believed,
he was going to freaking say what he was going
to say. And that's always had to go back to

(53:25):
why this show was the show in the first place
because of ballroom dance.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yep, no, and he knew so much about it. I
met him when he was fifteen, and I didn't know
how funny he was. I mean, he was more funny
than wasn't He a theater arts world champion. I don't
know his title, so I know he judged me in Blackpool,
and I think he did it all, but it's he
was never I don't think a world champion. He was

(53:52):
just very well rounded and very much about social dancing.
Oh interesting, Yes, that's why I met him in Holland.
He was doing annual congresses to teach ballroom dance studio
owners and teachers how to teach. That was his strength
and that is why he was so brilliant on the show.

(54:15):
It was not about showing how good he was of
a competitive dancer, but he knew how to criticize someone
that has never danced before, how to give him little tidbits,
how to from a social dancer to left foot feeded
to an actual good dancer.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Now he basically understood pro am before there was pro am. Yes,
brilliant How I met him in Holland. What do you
think of the judges now? The three?

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I wish I get it their personas, especially Bruno and
Carrie and who have been there for thirty two seasons.
They bring in an element other than ballroom. I get it.
But when you do these shows for so many years,
I would like to see more diversity and comments and

(55:13):
and and Derek, I think he's improving every single season.
What I would like to see is more layers coming
off of trying to be a persona rather than just
be Because does Derek have a lot of experience teaching

(55:33):
within our industry. No, but he has a lot of
dance experience that he could really organically just live from.
But it's it's it's I it's hard. Having having judged
the Dutch version, I have a whole new perspective on
sitting on a chair and being told by the host

(55:54):
Louis talk and now you have to say while millions
are watching, you have to say something constructive, something You
have to be within your lane. It's hard and do
it intwo sentences. Please, Yes, I believe that could be
more depth mentioned to the celebrities and the couples, even

(56:17):
the pro es. Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
I was just going to say that I wish I
wish that we would have gotten the note because we're
more I would say, we're a little bit more than
fifty percent of this partnership. Like I wish someone would
say to me, Cheryl, maybe you know, maybe you shouldn't
do lists with this person, or maybe he should stop
counting out loud on live television because it's really distracting
and maybe it's giving your celebrity, you know, feeling that
feeling of discouragement. You know, there's certain things that like

(56:42):
I don't know why they don't talk to us. I
know it's not about us, but it is also.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Well, when I judged in Holland, I don't know if
the producers liked it or not. I would good for you,
I would say from a prose perspective, there was very
little content of yes or hey. Next time it's simpler
flow because then your celebrity can focus better on form
and frame, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
And that's what I'm doing on for my recaps every week.
I'm literally talking about the pros. I wish someone would
do this.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
As long as you do it consistently, and you do
it in a way it's constructive, it's it's generitive. Yes,
if it's something that the audience can learn, it's entertaining education.
That's what I would like to see more.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
I mean, I'm not judging people on something they can't change.
I'm judging because I have some constructive criticism to add
to this, because I know the judges don't have a
lot of time or they're not mentioning it.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Yep. No, it's what is also a fun part that
when you get eliminated is where you can not be
a judge but help others and at first. In the
earlier years I was more heck no, no, I'm not,
and now helping Whitney last season and going in and
help being left and right. It really is is kind

(58:02):
of fun to have a different role other than just
your own celebrity partners. That's another outlet than being a judge,
being a mentor. But I would I hope, I truly hope,
and I have a feeling you would want the same.
I would like a fourth seat. I would like them
to go back to fourth. I actually I don't mind three.

(58:25):
Well yeah, well I am. I'm kind of being selfish here.
I would like to be a judge and the show
knows it. I would like it. I mean, I trained
most of the pros on the show. I have the
most choreography experience. I've done my own Broadway show. I've
done many shows with Julie, with Karina, with Joanna Lunis

(58:45):
that for the world superstars that are not your typical ballroom.
So there's so many sites that I would like to
talk about. I just love dancing with the stars. Of course,
you know, we should always be grateful for ABC, BBC
and absolutely because changed our lives, changed our lives. Would

(59:11):
not have the careers that week right now, and I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I couldn't agree with you more. I wanted to ask
you what you're up to and where people can find you,
and any other type of tips as far as body

(59:34):
positivity goes, feel free.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Focus on you yourself and make sure that every decision
you make is because it makes you feel better, it
enhances your life and the reason why. The better you
feel inside and take time for you, you will be

(01:00:00):
a better parent, You'll be a better partner, spouse, you
will be a better person in your community. But if
you are constantly pleasing everyone else, helping everyone else, you
put yourself down. At one point you won't have the energy,
You'll get injured, you might develop I am a believer

(01:00:21):
if you are in such a mental and emotional turmoil
all the time, your physical body will try and fight it.
But at one point that body can fight it and
it will turn it into some kind of disease or
I'm a believer of that. So I want a good
physical karma. So I will work on my mental and

(01:00:42):
physical and emotional self every single day. I have to
not just form a company and my own sanity. I
have a child that I'm working with right now that
is really on the wrong path and it takes everything,
every molecule inside of me. But luckily that I am
taking that time for me. Sound selfish, but I don't.

(01:01:06):
It's not selfish. I do that for me so that
I can be that stronger person in mistake. Because here's
the other thing. If you're in a bad place, your
patience is gone. You will start your your your little
window of tolerance get smaller, and now you start raising
your voice and who knows, cussing temper tantrums. Yes, And

(01:01:30):
since I have my son doing that, I want to
make sure that I stay calm. You have to lead
by example. Lead by example, and it makes me feel better.
I can think straighter. And what do you do? How
do you like when you say you do that? What?

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
What types of like? Do you have anything you'd like
to share as far as how you keep your mental
health intact?

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
It's as simple as breathing. Those thoughts come because what
it does it takes away the immediate need to speak up.
And also the body does this, so it kind of
relaxes and walking away from the situation. And it doesn't

(01:02:14):
matter what situation you're in. Someone might have made a
comment about your body weight, walk away, take a deep breath,
and come back to the conversation and try and rationalize
it so that he can put it away, process it
and put it away and then respond. Don't react yes,

(01:02:37):
or respond by breathing and don't respond right away and
really think for a moment. That has really helped. When
my son cusses at me and I just want to
fight fire with fire, and then I take that breath
and keep my voice calm, it actually affects him. And

(01:03:02):
using an example, if someone were to and it happened
to me in a different subject matter, you have this
horrible person saying something nasty on social media. I'm going
to take my time to go into a conversation and
just ask some questions. I've learned to want to validate

(01:03:25):
that person's feeling and then share my side. And sometimes
that person feels so guilty for having judged on something
that wasn't true. Now that takes effort, and I've only
done it a few times, and of course everyone else says,
don't give that person the light of day. But it

(01:03:46):
made me feel better. That's important because I sat there
and I took the time and I thought, oh, is
that what you think? Okay, well have you thought about it? X, Y,
and Z. And then that person came back I did
not and apologized to me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
I mean, most of the time they want you to respond,
which is why they do this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Yes, and I've had it both that they never responded,
so that was not worth a second one. But when
they did respond and apologized, that person felt better, and
I felt better because she apologized. And I felt better
because she apologized. Then I was opening a conversation and
many people saw that exchange, and those people will feel better, like, Hey,

(01:04:31):
we're not just fighting fire with fire, We're actually communicating.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
And I actually think that's dangerous to ignorance to people
like that for the most part. I mean, I think
there's some instances where it's probably best not to say anything.
I also feel though, that maybe for people like me
at least, when I ignore, ignor pretend, then I then
I start to feel bad about myself. But if I
stick up for myself by using my two thumbs and
responding in a respectful manner, obviously, then I feel better.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
I think you're right. It also in quite a honestly,
and I've done a few videos on that that I
felt guilty for not posting for a week or two,
and I see all of you guys, all over a
million followers, and here I am at my age. I
don't well anyway, I'm going through my head. And then
when I just do a video, I can't. I can't.
I'm not going to feel guilty. I'm in highlane. And

(01:05:17):
then doing these podcasts. It also gives you credibility and sincerity, transparency,
but you do when you do react, you actually go
into conversation. I can't always. I mean, if you would
have to sit down and react hundreds of times every
single day, I can be a dad, I can be

(01:05:38):
a business owner. I can't go to the gym because
all I do is like that. And I'm sure, guys,
you have what eight hundred thousand followers or I mean,
I have no idea, you know, but I definitely it's no.
But I also don't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
I also love the block button for people who are
really inappropriate, and that also empowers me too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yeah, well and rightly, so if people have something to say,
they can say it. We should be if you're figure,
you should be opened to You shouldn't be going at people.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Yes, yes, yes, what kind and I've had, and also
you you create, you attract your own kind over time,
and sometimes from another camp they come in and follow
you and make a nasty comment.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Those are the ones you block and don't get any
any time of day. Yeah, what are you working on
now other than all of that stuff? Well? Podcasts? Okay?
When is it coming out? We hope within two weeks?

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
And who are you doing it with? Are you doing
it with anybody or are you just doing it yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
I am doing it with someone calling Pierce in Gosh,
I don't even know because everything is digital. I haven't
even talked about. That's exciting, I think in Vegas. Yeah,
I am excited because really because of situations like this,
using a platform to turn negative into positive to help
people that could use the help. While you also realize,

(01:07:11):
wait a minute, these people are public figures and they
shit like everyone else. They go to a bathroom, they ship.
I mean, ultimately, I quite honestly have never seen myself
as a public figure. I have to remind me you
are so. But when Really what I'm working on is

(01:07:31):
with Leblast, we are announcing our kids Fit program.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Can you tell my listeners what LaBlast is?

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
First, so Leblast is what I started because of Dance
with the Stars. It's ballroom dancing based, partner free fitness,
dance fitness partner free, and we do all components of
physical fitness. We do weight training, we do plyometrics or
non plyometrics, we do high low interval training, and we

(01:07:57):
have five formats. We have land fitness, aqua fitness in
the pool, which is so much fun. Actually doing pasodobaa
quick step in the pool. That's actually a great idea.
Oh it's fun and it's really it's really doing well.
We have chair Fitness for people that have to sit down.
They'll do Oh my gosh, I would love to, but no,

(01:08:18):
that wouldn't work. It's sitting down and still doing. I mean,
I'm sitting down right now. And we do good jobs. Yeah,
great training we're doing. We're doing rumba and salsa, samba.
We do it all sitting down, line dancing, ballroom dancing,
linding rolls. Oh. I just introduced samba roles at our

(01:08:39):
convention in Florida, and then we're introducing kids LaBlast Fitness
next week and we're going into schools. We're going We're
I'm now in five different countries. Good for you, and
I am so proud thirteen years in. And it's about
helping others. It's about helping me. I mean the best

(01:09:00):
shape of my life because I'm doing three classes a
week on demand, so people can join on demand from
their home. Can they join if they don't have on
demand you have to have direct TV. I'm so confused. Sorry,
I'm technically challenged. De man. They can go to our
website last and you get a free week and you
can do it from your TV at home. But then

(01:09:20):
also we have, of course hundreds of instructors that teach
LaBlast that community centers. Why JCC is working with big
box gyms right now to get it in there. And yeah,
and I'm teaching in one class a week. I've missed
teaching my own classes, so at the Provo Rec Center

(01:09:41):
here in Utah County, I'm teaching my own class every
Monday night. Is it ballroom like with couples, No, it's
at a Provo Rec Center. It's the Blast Fitness. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Oh my god, I don't miss that altitude. That's why
you're in the best shape of your life. I'll never
forget nationals there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Yeah. Well, I am teaching five minutes from where you
did the National Channel YU. Yes, be the two in
strapped anyway. Oh that's a bad joke. But didn't hit that.
I interrupted you. There's no way good well that that
was better as a bad joke anyway. So yeah, So really,

(01:10:19):
le blast is it's my life right now. It's my
kids and my third kid Blast Fitness. Are you having
guests on your podcast? I will, and one of them
I'm going to ask, is the one I'm talking to
right now? I would love to. That's basically it was
me in writing myself f y. I. Oh, don't, don't

(01:10:39):
you worry, Cheryl Burke. You're high. You've already done two
of my podcasts, so of course great. I just want
to get my what do you call my feet wet
and get all the kinks out and all but yes, please, yes,
my am, I mean I'll get I'll be there with
kinks or no kinks. Okay, it's we can talk about

(01:11:02):
anything that helps others. I love your transparency always, so
that's why I guess we're always never boring, right, definitely not.
That's the thank you so much, Loie. I have actually
run right now because he has Cello practice for his

(01:11:24):
OOO speak at the library in Cottonwood Heights. I love
that he plays at cell. He wants to go to Juilliard.
Oh my god, Wow, better get a scholarship. I'm kidding.
And look if that were to happen the story a
kid ten years old adopted out of the foster care
system makes it to Juilliard. I mean, I've already cried

(01:11:49):
he had. I mean, that's a huge dream. That's beautiful,
it's it's so amazing. When we were on Cameron Hall
early this year to promote adoption from the FoST the
care system, that was filmed next to Lincoln Center, right,
I took him there, I said, look around. I might
get emotional right now. I said turn around. And he

(01:12:12):
turned around and he saw Juilliard and he turned around
and his eyes were so big. I said, turn around,
take a picture. So if I have a picture, and
I'm I am going to help manifest it, you've.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Got to put that picture on his phone on his
home screen, so he only he only sees it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
It's so on. Just a fun fact. We're going to
New York City for Christmas, and on December twenty second,
we're going to the New York Philharmonic Orchestra at Lincoln
Center next to Julia. Now he knows, yes, yes, and
Yo Yo Ma is his biggest He's a huge fan

(01:12:54):
of Yoyo Ma because he's probably the most famous cellist
in the United States. So I'm gonna take him to that. Really,
it's such a good dad. Well, I mean, I have
to be realistic. The coach inside of me says, oh
my gosh, he has three more years to make that happen.
Don't be a cello mom. No, I'm not. I am really,

(01:13:16):
I am proud of myself. I am supporting him. I
am raising questions, Hey, how many hours a week have
you practiced this week? So that he can then make
the choice. Oh yeah, I should do more. Of course.
Is it easy for us, you know, as parents and
coaches to say you will not make it too Juliet.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
If you don't, you basically insinuated that when you're asking
him how many hours of rehearsal he's had so far?

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
Yes, but give me some props at least for sure. Yes,
you don't do that, then I'm going to take away
your friends. You mean, like the way we were raised
kidding Well, it was not as hard, but uh, you
and I have a similar upbringing moms. If you will,

(01:14:05):
very strong, that's what I like each other. Yes, yes, okay,
thank you, Thank you again for having this conversation, Louis.
I really appreciate you too, and I love you and
I'm will you yes please, I'm gonna we'll FaceTime so
I can show you around a little bit. Thank you
for having me, and thank you. I love you too.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
Make sure you guys follow us at sex Lies and
spray tands on our Instagram handle and make sure your comment.
Let me know who you want me to interview.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
What do you all think? Let me know