August 19, 2024 • 38 mins
Super Bowl Champ Vernon Davis was hoping to score another trophy on the 29th season of DWTS, but despite all his fancy footwork, he didn't make it to the end zone.
The former Tight End joins Cheryl to talk football and dancing, including his journey to the NFL, opening up about his severe depression and panic attacks, the reason for joining DWTS, first impressions of dance partner Peta, why he almost quit the competition, and the surprising lesson he learned from being on the show!
Plus, Vernon's advice for current football players, all the current projects he is juggling, rapid-fire Q&A, and a preview of his new book, "Playing Ball: Life Lessons from My Journey to the Super Bowl and Beyond," debuting August 20.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Sex, Lies and spray Tands with Me. Cheryl
Burke and iHeartRadio Podcast. Welcome back to your favorite podcast.
Today we have the pleasure of welcoming a truly remarkable
individual whose achievements span multiple fields. From an illustrious NFL
career marked by two Pro Bowl selections in a Super
(00:21):
Bowl Championship, to becoming a successful entrepreneur, he has demonstrated
excellence both on and off the field. His journey didn't
stop there, as he seamlessly transitioned into the world of acting,
earning acclaim for his performances in various film and television projects.
Known for his philanthropic efforts, he has made a significant
(00:41):
impact on communities across the country. His dedication to fitness
and wellness continues to inspire money and how can we
forget his incredible talent on Dancing with the Stars alongside
his partner Pete Murgatroyd Schmerkowsky. Please welcome Vernon Davis to
the show. Vernon, What's Up?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm doing good? How you doing good?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We have a whole news transition from football to what
you're doing now, and it's really impressive And I have
so many questions for you. So we're going to just
get down and dirty. Okay, we're going to take it
back to little Vernon. But first I want to ask
you who is Vernon Davis? Behind the football field, behind
the big screen and behind everything? Just like, who are
(01:29):
you as a person?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I would like to say that I'm very benevolent. I
care about people. I'm all about giving back. I love
creating smiles and just making people happy. It just feels
good to be able to do something like that. I
like to work hard. I love work, and I love
like trying something new and becoming successful with it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, now I can see that that's awesome. And what
do you think people's biggest misconceptions are about you?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think the biggest biggest misconception about me would probably
be m I think the biggest thing, Like people who
don't know me and who don't follow me, they probably
think I'm just a football player, right because it's always
it's always football whenever I go out sometimes and people
don't know me, you play football? Okay, Okay, what else
(02:24):
do you do right?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Or what are you going to do now? Isn't that
the worst?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah? Exactly? What are you doing next? What have you
done the funniest thing. I hope you're investing your money right.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh, it is such a diss Let's go back to
when you were growing up. What was your family dynamics like.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh, so my grandparents raised me and my six siblings
in like a three bedroom house. And my grandmother she
was she was like a housemaid. My granddad was a
maintenance man. And it was pretty much we were I mean,
we were comfortable, we were good. My grandmother grandfather always
made sure that we had everything we needed. A lot
(03:05):
of people might look it's like, oh he grew up.
It was tough growing up the way he was brought
up in Washington, d c. But there were some challenges,
But as far as being taken care of as a child,
my grandparents always provided for us.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's beautiful. What is your first memory as a kid, Like,
your very first.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Memory, my very first memory as a kid, Let me
go back. I would say maybe playing outside in the
snow with my mom.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Oh I love that, Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
What made it? Like? Why football?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So was it something that you always wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Like?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
What was the first exposure I guess to the sport
that made you want to really take it seriously or
even try it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, I don't think football was. It was never a
dream of mine to play football. I always wanted to
play basketball, soccer. In grade school, I was a tumbler
on the cheerleader team.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Oh really, she said, Yes, it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yes, I used to do flips.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
No, I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So I never really planned to play football. I would
just go out recreationally and play with the guys. But
as far as sports, I always played basketball. It wasn't
until I was in eighth grade. Between eighth and tenth
grade where I decided to play football basketball. I knew
it wasn't going to work for me because they had
to start in five When I walked into a high
school in the tenth grade, and I knew that football
(04:32):
was going to be my only option.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So I just put my heart and soul into that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Why Because I think I felt like it was the
only option I had. Really, I didn't want to do
anything else. I didn't want to play any other sport
but football because I felt like I was good at it.
I was always my biggest strength was my ability to
be able to run right and when I was outside
on the track with the older guys. I would measure
myself up against them and I would always outrun them.
(04:58):
And so from that day I said, you know what,
I think I have a chance at this. And I
just kept going and they saying, you.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Know, well I And did your grandparents and parents support you, like,
do they they saw your talent or did they not
want you to play football at first?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
No, my grandmother didn't want me to play football.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
She never watched She never watched my games until they
were done. Like when I was in the when I
made it to the pros, she would always watch the
game after, you know, after the game was over, she
would talk to me and say, oh, I recorded the game,
I'll go watch it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
But even in high school and college, she never really
came to the games.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
She was always afraid She didn't want to see me
get hurt?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh yeah, I figured, yeah, because it's one thing to
watch it on TV and then it's one thing to
watch it in person. It is it's a different experience
for sure. And how about your parents, what role did
they play in your life?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
My parents were never really around. My grandmother had me
since I was two, since I was one. You know,
sometimes parents struggle try to find themselves, you know, no,
you know, I'm not faulting them or anything like that,
but it's just yeah, it was just what.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It was exactly. My father is the same. By the way,
rest in peace is past now. But thank you. How
about your siblings?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah? Seven of us?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Seven total?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Gosh, all raised by your grandparents, raised by my grandparents. Wow,
they are superhuman. Yeah, and what was the dynamics like?
Are you the oldest?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I am the oldest, yees, and the next behind me
is Vonte.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Rest in peace, Rest in peace, my condolences.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh, thank you. Yeah, he's four years younger than me.
And then so on goes on. My youngest sibling is
twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And are they all were they all like sports related
or not necessarily?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
No, not necessarily just Vante and my youngest brother behind me.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
My heart goes out to you and your family. That's horrible,
is there? Do you I mean this happened recently? Correct
with his passing. Do you know how this happened?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Or yeah, April first, it happened. I'm still unaware of
what exactly happened because the reports didn't come out yet.
But you know there was no foul play, so it
was probably due to something he put in his body.
I'm not quite sure what it was. That's the only
thing I can think of, because he didn't have any
(07:27):
health issues.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right. Do you think that it has anything to do
with CT? It obviously is a very physical sport, and
there isn't much you can do with CT because you
can't They can't assess until you're until you've passed. Is
that correct? The brain?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
That is right? You have to send the brain down
to Boston. I was going to send my brother's brain
to Boston, but you only have forty eight hours to
send the brain. So yeah, but my brother passed away
Saturday night and we found him on Monday. So by
the time I could really come up with a decision
to have to talking to the family to send his brain,
(08:05):
it was to you only.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Wait, why forty eight that's it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's like forty eight hours?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, you is?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You have limited The clock is ticket as soon as
they decease.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Do you think that has anything to do with anything
with Jacoby, with your brother, with other football players that
may have passed too soon?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know, I can't really say exactly because I don't
know exactly what happens when CTE is on the brain. Like, Okay,
if you have a certain amount of ct on your brain,
what does it cause? When does it start? When does
it start affecting you? And how does it make you behave? Right?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
We know based on the people the history of.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Football players dying and how they killed themselves or or whatever, right,
how it happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the behavior and things
of that nature. But I don't I can't really say,
you know, I don't really know, and it maybe I
don't think it's the NFL that that. I don't think
(09:12):
it's the NFL. I think it's a combination of like
just over time, just wear and tear trauma over time,
just you know, starting from when kids were playing Pop
Warner right all the way up until they getting the NFL,
and over that period of time, maybe it starts to
affect you, especially after you're done playing. We got to
(09:34):
really figure out that correlation between guys, Yeah, when they
stop playing, you know, because all this stuff happens when
they're done playing.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
But then, yeah, if you only have forty eight hours
to send your brain over to have them, you know,
really dissect it, I'm sure they haven't had enough study
yet as far as statistics go. But it's scary because
it's just that, like what can you do to prevent it?
Do you have any suggestions as to like what could
the you know, NFL well or anyone playing football, Like
(10:01):
do the helmets need to be restructured? Like what happens?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I think they're doing. I think the NFL and
every from collegiate on down to the high school, I
think they're doing. They're doing a wonderful job as far
as figuring out change right with the cushions on the
helmet to Q thirty innovations like the Q collar that
a lot of these NFL guys are wearing, and it's
(10:25):
just they're doing everything they can to protect these guys.
And I think it's something that has to be done
because it's really sad to see these guys, you know,
take their lives or just.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Can't seem to handle the depression.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I had depression when I was playing. I mean year
probably back in twenty twelve, I had a severe case
of depression. Like I think the thing with me was
I was able to I was really I was fully
equipped with from a spiritual standpoint, from just having wisdom
and understanding, like, hey, if I take my life life,
(11:00):
then yeah, that's just not right. But I was at
a point where I felt like I had nothing to
live for.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
What triggered that, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I think I woke up one night. I woke up
in training camp one morning, one night in the middle
in the middle of the night, and I remember going
out into the hallway that the security guard was there, and
my heart started racing. I was like panicking for no
reason from out my out of my sleep. And from
that point on, I've never really experienced anything like that before.
I thought I was dying.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Right, the anxiety like it was it a panic attack
type or.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, it was anxiety. It was like a I don't
know what triggered my mind to even getting that to
get in that state. It was just it was just
a crazy experience for me. And then just dealing with
the aftermath of that, it really put me in a
depressed state and I felt like I had nothing to
live for. It's just and at that moment, you don't
(11:56):
really think about your family, You don't think about the
life that you built, the the place you came from.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
The people, they're just you. Yeah, yeah, you don't.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Think about any thing. It's like your mind takes over
and nothing else really exists but the decision you're about
to make and how you and how you feel about it.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
You know, first, thank you for opening up, and I'm
sorry you had to deal with that, did you? And
also with mental health, people are only now starting to
talk about it like it's not necessary. And still it's
like I can't imagine with men. You know, it's not
necessarily with women, it's almost expected now today. But how
about for you? How were you able to be able
to talk it through? Did you go see a therapist
(12:40):
or yes?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I hired a therapist when I was playing.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And I also started reading scriptures and I started reading
like self help books and I really felt, I really
feel like it really it helped me out tremendously and
I was able to really have a different perspective and
find some peace with than my spirit.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Wow. And you were still active as obviously still playing
right twenty When did you retire?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I retired in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Wow. Okay, so you still had eight solid years on
the field.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah. I don't know if you know about this book
that's coming out, but I got a book coming out.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I do, and we were going to talk. I was
hoping I could read it before this interview, but it
wasn't out. I was like stalking it on Audible and
I couldn't find it because it's not out yet. But
I did pre order it and everyone should, all my
listeners better get it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I did the audible you did?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
How was that a lot of work?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
That was?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Oh my gosh, Oh my goodness, so hard.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's going to be a really good book. I know,
because you have a colorful life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, it's good. I think it's gonna be good.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Was it therapeutic for you?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
It was?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Oh my goodness, it was so therapeutic.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
There were things that I had to talk about that
I didn't address to any of my therapists over time,
and it allowed me to really think deeply about those
situations that I ran into back back when I was.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Younger, crazy. Right, Yeah, So would you say therapists, I've
been in therapy since I was four and I still
am to this day. But I love that you are
open to talk about it. Do you are you consistent
(14:23):
with therapy? Was this was twenty twelve year trigger to
like maybe see a professional or oh.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I was. I think it was. I was seeing
a professional before that, because when you when you join
the NFL, they recommend that you have a therapist because
there's so many things these young guys go through. Some
guys might get on the team and then maybe it's
not working out for them, right, They had all this
hype coming from out of college and now it's just
not working for them, so they recommend seeing a therapist.
(14:51):
But I continue to see a therapist. But when I
had the situation with the panic disorder, I started to
see the therapist regularly, and I just carry it out
up until now. And I feel like everything we do,
we should always have a coach, even when it comes
to acting, when it comes to to just life, to anything,
you should always have a coach, a professional.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And someone who's not biased. That's very important, right. Any
advice before we talk dancing with the stars, any advice
to any active football players who may have these feelings
arise and don't know what to do with them.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think they should really. I think when it comes
to just any human being in general, just be in
touch with your spirit, your inner being, because there's so
much to yourself that you don't even know That's why
we gain so much wisdom over time, because as we
get older, we go through so many different experiences and
it causes us to have a different perspective. But if
we can get ahead of the game and tap into
(15:51):
our inner being, then it'll definitely help us when times
get tough like that. And like I said before, that
is that's the biggest issues. Like we got was run
into these problems that they never dealt with before. All
of a sudden, I'm having a panic. This hack I
never I've never been here before. I don't fight a flight,
yeah fighter, okay, yeah, Now I can't handle it. What
do I do? I don't know what to do. So
(16:13):
then they get depressed and they take their life or
they just do something chaotic, you know what I mean.
It's just and it's all because they're not they're not
equipped spiritually. Even when I was playing ball all show,
when I was playing football for the forty nine ers
all the way up until the Washington the Washington Commanders,
I used to go out and I used to always
think that I was going to drop the ball. I
just had this fear, but I knew, I knew it
(16:36):
somewhere inside of me. I knew it wasn't going to happen,
but I had this fear of doing it, and that's
when I would go out and have my best games.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Did you ever drop the ball?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I would never drop I would dropped the ball before,
but every time I had this thought, right, It wasn't
every game, but as I got older, it started to
happen more and more. But luckily I had you know,
good people in my corner to help me with my
you know, with my mental and yeah, yeah, it just
never happened. Everything that I was thinking was going to happen,
it didn't happen. It didn't come the past.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Did you ever feel like that on Dancing with the Stars, Like,
would you like work up your thoughts so much in
your head that maybe the execution it got affected by it?
Or no?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, I used to think that a little bit, not
as much as football because I was so determined. It
was new for me. But there would be times where
I had those thoughts and I would stumble a bit,
but I would catch myself like come.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
On, you got this, hey, So how did you start
the conversation about joining Dancing with the Stars?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Oh goodness, it was, But like I said, it was
something new. It was something I'm always open to trying
different things, and I thought it would be a great opportunity,
especially for everything that I wanted to step into, a
different fan base, a different opportunity for me to be
able to learn how to dance right. And I took
a lot from it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'd very great, you dance right. Have you danced before?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Never? I couldn't dance at all.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Well, did you talk to any of your colleagues about
Dancing with the Stars prior to you doing this?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, I had a wonderful conversation with Josh Norman because
we were playing together when he was when he was
on the show, So he talked to me about it
and told me about the times he had And yeah,
how much you really appreciated going on the show and
learning how to.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Dance more so, did you expect it to be as
consuming as it was?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No? I didn't. First.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
They don't tell you that right, like, because then no
one would sign up for this show. If they said
it's seven days a week, it's going to take over
your whole life and put a smile on your face.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I would be up in my living room in la
I will be up for the time I walked into
the into the into my apartment. I will be in
the living room because just working on the routine until
like one in the morning. So I'm working the extra
four to five hours.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's why I went to the athletes. We love you
for that.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, It's like it was crazy. I'm like, oh my goodness.
I didn't want I did not want to do anything.
I didn't want to go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
All I want to know and just relax, you know what.
I dance with Emmittt. He's like, I'm only giving you
four hours a day. And I'm like, okay, fine, only
give me four hours a day because like he also
refused to move to la At that time, he was
married to Pat. He was living in Dallas, and so
we flew back every week. We had a six week
training period. It's the longest ever before the premiere. And
(19:35):
this was after the second season. Yeah, so season three
and he's like, I'm only doing four hours and I'm like,
good luck with that when we start doing two dances.
But okay. But the great thing about Emmett like you
is that he went home and he must have practiced
like he was eating, breathing, ballroom dancing and I'm telling you,
this is stuff that actors, let's say for example, I'm
(19:55):
not saying all, but some don't do they don't even
think about doing it right, because it's like it's a
work ethic that's been in as part of your identity,
you know, and we appreciate it as pro dancers because
there's nothing like it. It's the work you do by yourself,
not with us, by the way that actually happens, and
it makes it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, now you're right about that. My grandmother thought
I was gonna last two weeks.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Oh thanks, grandma. Did she ever come and see you?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
No, she watched it, she did. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Was she proud of you?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, she's very proud.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay, So how was What was your first impression of
Peter when you walked into the rehearsal space.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I thought she was very beautiful. I was like, Wow,
I get a chance to work with this beautiful girl.
And when I met her, I thought she was going
to be easy on me. But she was tough. Oh
she was tough.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I was like, Oh, this is gonna be this is
going to be a breeze. I'm just gonna go out here.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm gonna get it and she's going to be cool
about everything. Oh she was on me, damn it. Burning.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
What was the most challenging part of the show for you.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I think the most challenging part was having to come
up with a routine within two days because they wanted
us to They wanted to film everything right within two days,
and it was that was very challenging to me. I mean,
I'm like, wow, this is.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
This is crazy that I didn't stress like it's they're
called the wise? Are you talking about the whites?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
The whits? Exactly the whites?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And I heard you do an interview where you said
you were almost through the towel and because you were
so discouraged at one point, can you say more about that?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I felt like I wanted to throw the towel.
I knew I wasn't going to do it because I
never I was always trained to never give up, and
I didn't just want to walk out because I was
excited about being there. But there are times where it
gets tough and your mind is telling you I can't
do this, I don't want to do this. And I
(22:01):
felt that way a couple of times. I'm used to criticism,
got it I used to construct the criticism. That's always
been my world. It was just the amount of everything
was just so foreign to me. Like, I'm not a dancer.
I've never been the guy on the field to come
up with dance moves because I just I didn't have
(22:23):
the coordination. So it was just it was just tough
just learning. It was like learning a new language and
you had like limited time.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Did you ever not agree with the creative?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I believe, I can't remember what it was. Was
that the I.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Think when we did I just saw all your dances.
I was just gonna say tango, yes.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Oh that was Oh my goodness, that was so that
was so hard?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Was it hard because you had to stay and hold Yeah,
and you had.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
To been at your knees and it was so tough. Yeah,
that was tough.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And with the height difference right with you and Peter,
Yeah yeah. What was so tough about it?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Just yeah, just bending and and just even like the
different moves. It was I've never done anything like that.
So of coordination of it. When I look back, I'm like, wow,
I learned all of this stuff. Now when I'm out
in the public, everyone's always asking me, show me a
dance move, Show me a dance move. So I'm out
there doing tellyspins with them. Yeah, they loved the telespins.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh my gosh, they you did some good telespins.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, they loved to tell us. That's signature, that's my signature.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
The same with Emmett. Why do you think football players
do so well on the show?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah? The discipline and everything we have within ourselves too
to not want to fail, right, right, And I give
you an example like when I was when I was
playing football, I used to catch. I used to stay
up the practice and would catch three hundred balls just
because I wanted to go out and do really really well.
(24:06):
I mean I couldn it was just something in my mind.
I was just always working. And I think football players
are wired like that, which is wired.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
For success totally. And do you believe in perfection or
do you believe there's no such thing as perfection?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
There's no such thing of perfection, But I think you
can strive to be perfect. Yeah, and you can set
your that could be your target, right, and you want
that to be your target, even though you're never going
to be perfect. But every time we go out with
an opportunity, we can get closer and closer to that target.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, like you set small goals or how do you
do that?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah? I set small goals. I like, yeah, small goals
because I think the smaller things always lead to the
bigger things. And if you're detail and you can handle
everything specifically, one at a time, it'll lead to just
greater opportunities for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Did you feel feel like you got underscored at times?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I definitely thought I thought I got underscored. I mean,
I'm a guy who I mean, I can't even do
the Running Man, you know. I'm telling you, Joe, I
could not do the Running Man before I came on
dance with your court.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I don't care what you're saying to yourself. It's a lie.
You're coordinated. I've seen you.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Everyone who knows me, even in my family, they know
I can't dance for dancers with my brothers. I'm telling you,
I was so bad. But I think just the willingness
to just excel at it allowed me to just I'm
a repetition guy. That's how I learned something like, I'll
do it a million times until I get it right,
and I think that's what that's what I was able
(25:39):
to do. I was able to like really take take
what I learned and perfect it over over time, one
one at a time. And but yeah, I think I was.
I was underscored. I mean, they should have gave me
props for like what I was able to do. Come
in there and learn that stuff, because that's not easy.
That is so hard.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
For the most part, you have a great like you
go walk away from this experience learning something about yourself, right,
or yes, you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Learned a lot about yourself and it feels so good.
I learned that I'm tougher than I.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Thought I was really even after football.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yes, oh my gosh, there was nothing. There was nothing
in my life that was harder than learning how to
come up with the routine dance move like what I
learned on Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
That was very, very challenging for me.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
It was like football was challenging in the beginning, and
as I got older and I got really good at it,
it got easier. Like playing fourteen years and as a
professional athlete was really easy for me. Oh right, it was. Yeah,
that was because the older I got, the more the
more wisdom I gain, and the more because the way
I approached it was I think a little. It was
(26:52):
different than other guys might approach it. And I tell
this story all the time. I shared it with my son.
And because I never had surgery, knock on? Would I
played fourteen years as a professional athlete, never had surgery?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And that's a lot of that has to do with
how I approached the game. Like I was on. I
treated it like a hole in, like an operation like
I had. I got three massages a week. I started
chiropractice twice a week. But you know what, I wouldn't
do it just during the season. I would do it
maintenance for twelve months. I did twelve months out of
the year.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yes, I mean, like, isn't that how Tom Brady and
all them also do it too. It's like, it's not
about just when you're in season. It's more important when
you're not in season.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
But you would think as a professional athlete, right, and
I watched this for fourteen years, guys they would do
what they need to do during the season. Then the
off season comes, they take breaks. They kind of pull
back a little bit, right, They stopped doing the things,
the routine maintenance and things of that nature. But would
you would think as a top tier athlete, you would
continue to to really work on your body and take
(27:57):
care of it. But it doesn't work that way. But
the same way I took care of my body, I
approached the craft that way. I was always in the books.
I was always working on the craft.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
The little things you're curious.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah, I was always working on those things.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And that's why.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And you can tell a person who puts to work
in based on the longevity in the career they had.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, when you got eliminated, you got a little emotional.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Why when I got eliminated, I got emotional because I
was shocked because I felt like I should have been there,
absolutely because I'm not a dancer. You know, I'm not
a dancer. And what I did was impressive. I mean
everyone thought it was impressive, and especially people who know me,
Like I came a long way with learning learning something
(28:47):
I didn't know how to do, and it meant a
lot to me to be there, Like I wanted to win.
I wanted to I want to keep going. And not
only that, I called there a relationship with a lot
of you all on the show, and it was it
was just I wasn't ready to leave. I felt like
there was some some favorites, and it was very political. Yeah,
(29:08):
in a sense. Every time I turned around there, I
look at the scoreboard. It's like I in that night,
I thought I did much better, but here it is
they're giving this guy or this couple, I know, more
points than we scored.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
So it was just it was just like it was
crazy then when you can't get over the hunt.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Would you ever do All Stars if there was like
or a DWTS Athlete season, if there was one.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Absolutely I loved Yes, I love dancing. Yes, I think
I I'll come on much stronger because I know how
to count music now, I know how to you know,
I kind of got some stuff with me. Now I
can move a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yes, See, look at you, You've always been able to move.
Come on, mister, I'm not coordinated. I'll show you someone
not coordinated vernon quickly. I mean, you did a movie
with Morgan Freeman. You're like going to be an Oscar
winner here soon. So what how was that for you?
Is it hard for the acting world to take you
seriously at first?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah? I think it is. But I think what's happening now?
Everywhere I go people don't even talk about football anymore
because I've done so many projects. It's like the first
thing they say, I saw you in this movie. I
was watching TV and I saw somebody on the screen
and it was you movie man. That was a great movie.
So it's like it's like it's like two different worlds.
I feel like I would live two different worlds. It's
like no one's start. They know me as a football player,
(30:25):
but they don't leave with that anymore. They don't talk
about the games I play. They talk about the movie.
How is it working with Bruce Willis? How was it
working with Morgan Freeman. So it's pretty It's pretty cool,
even though I know I think my my career and
life is just starting, you know. But for me to
be able to have a good jump on some wonderful projects,
I think that's it means a lot. I just got
(30:46):
to keep moving forward, keep being creative, and just enjoy it.
As long as you enjoy it and you're doing it
for the right reason, I think everything else will work
out for you.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
From what I read about you, I feel like you've
planned this even when you were still active as a
football player. What advice do you have for football players
should they are already be thinking about what's next for
them after retirement.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, all my life, I've always pictured myself ahead of
where I was.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Like when I was in high school, I believed I
was in college.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
When I was in college, I believed I was a
professional ballplayer. Right. I always put myself ahead. And then
when I got into the NFL, I started. I didn't
know exactly what I wanted to do, but I took
a chance on a few things, and then I started
getting more to business. And then I took a class
at the Shelton Theater of Art in downtown San Francisco,
and from there I fell in love with acting. And
(31:38):
then I started seeking opportunities in the movie in the
film space. So I started planting all these seeds so
when I was done, I was able to roll into everything.
And I also encourage guys, whether it's playing ball or not,
plant as many seeds as you can. What I mean
by that is opportunities. Learn of course what you're getting into.
(32:02):
But if there's an investment opportunity here and you think
you want to do it like that, see invest in it.
But little always put in what you can afford to lose.
And that's what I tell everybody. And also, if you
own ten percent of ten different things and you owned
one hundred percent of something, right, you don't have to
put all your eggs in one basket, right. And you
know that's just being staying systematic about everything. That's what
(32:24):
I've been able to do. You know. Now since I've
been doing that, you know, it's kind of like it's
crazy because I don't have time in the day nothing
Like I can't hang out with my buddies no more
because I don't have I just don't have time. I
didn't put my id created so many opportunities for myself,
from real estate to fitness centers to just like to
(32:45):
the to the creative space of acting. Yeah, yeah, just everything.
And now I understand what it's like not to have time.
Like I literally don't have time. It's like every time
I sit down, I got something to do. Every time
I stand up, I got something to do. When I
get on a plane, I'm still I still have something
to do every single day. It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Do you have time for your kids and you make
time right?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Oh yeah, I prioritize that, like my kids, My kids
will be here and like in an hour, we're driving
down to Columbia to play on I'm a part of
this corn hole league on ESPN.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Of course you are. What else are you a part of?
Just add to the freaking to do list?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
They call me us of Year. So I'm taking my kids.
We're gonna jump in the car and we will go
down to Ohio. So I make time. That's that's my
first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Let's do rapid fire. You've got a lot of fan
questions too, so we kind of incorporated the rapid fire
and fan questions. Quick okay, quick sticks, We're going to
answer this quickly, and you got to answer the question.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Ready, let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Let who falls in love first? The pro answer or
the celebrity?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
A celebrity?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Is the show rigged?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Were there any moment where you felt the producers manipulated
this storyline for drama?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Did you ever sense any favoritism from the judges towards
certain contestants? Yes, you're the best at this game. Which
judges feedback? Did you find the most frustrating just the name.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Maybe Carrie Carrian.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Did you think the judges' critiques were harsher on you
compared to other contestants?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Did you ever feel that the judges were too harsh
on you because of your football background?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, wait there's more. Were there any moments where you
felt the scoring was biased? It's basically the same question
I keep asking you. Yes, did you think the scoring
system was fair throughout the season?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
No?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
How did you feel about Caitlin Bristow winning the Mirror
Ball Trophy?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Awful?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
This is great, this is what we should have done
the whole interview. Okay, do you feel like Nelly should
have made the finals?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Soutly not.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Do you think a J. McLean from the Backstreet Boys
had an advantage because of his dance background? Oh?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, hell no.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
He didn't, And I will fight that with you on
another at another time. Was there a celebrity who you
felt didn't deserve to go as far as they did?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I would say say more, but we're not. Who did
you bond with the most as far as your fellow
co stars on dancing?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Ooh ooh that's a good question. I'm gonna have to.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Say Peta not included an ann hash. Yeah she's she
was amazing. She was really amazing Rest in peace.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah she was.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
That was my girl.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh I love her?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, girl.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
How did you feel about Tyra Banks as the new
host of Dancing with the Stars? One word? How did
your experience on Dancing the Stars compared to your NFL
training camps?
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Oh, Dance with the Stars is more brutal, for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
How did Peter's coaching style compared to your football coaches?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
She was very she was more gentle, really, yeah, she was.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Do you think you were eliminated too soon?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I thought I was eliminated way too soon.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Vernon, tell us what you're working on now? When people
can get your book or if they can pre order it,
and where and where people can find you?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, playing ball life. Lessons for my Journey to the
Super Bowl and beyond will be on all platforms, Amazon, Barnes,
and Noble, you name it, It'll be all over the place.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Audible.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
My Voice Good comes out of August the twentieth, and
I'm super excited about it.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I think it's a great story. I think people can
take a lot of lessons out.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Of there and really learn from them and kind of
see the person that I am, not who I am
as Vernon Davis, the celebrity athlete who got a big paycheck.
You know, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, It's like
I feel like a lot of times people see me
for who I am now, they don't really think of
about like what I had to go through and where
(37:01):
I came from, you know what I mean kind of say,
but yeah, have that and then be on the lookout
for a movie that I have coming out with Steven
Spielberg's daughter, Destrie Spielberg.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
She directed a movie, a film that I'm in called
Please Don't feat the Children. Oh okay, Yeah, it's a
big film for me. You got I can't tell you
about it. You gotta watch it. They kind of see,
we got some studs. We got some stars in that movie,
some young stars. I mean there, those young kids were credible.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Wow. I am so proud of you. Yeah, thank you, seriously,
thank you. It was so good to catch up. Thank you,
Thank you all so much for listening. Please rate and
review wherever you're listening to this podcast, even if you've
done it before. It's crucial for the podcast's growth. Your
support means the absolute world to me, So take a
minute to leave a review and rating. Remember we're back
(37:51):
to three episodes per week every Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
Check out the new Rewatch episode this Wednesday. Until next time,
Love you guys, Bye,
This is Sex, Lies and spray Tands with Me. Cheryl
Burke and iHeartRadio Podcast. Welcome back to your favorite podcast.
Today we have the pleasure of welcoming a truly remarkable
individual whose achievements span multiple fields. From an illustrious NFL
career marked by two Pro Bowl selections in a Super
(00:21):
Bowl Championship, to becoming a successful entrepreneur, he has demonstrated
excellence both on and off the field. His journey didn't
stop there, as he seamlessly transitioned into the world of acting,
earning acclaim for his performances in various film and television projects.
Known for his philanthropic efforts, he has made a significant
(00:41):
impact on communities across the country. His dedication to fitness
and wellness continues to inspire money and how can we
forget his incredible talent on Dancing with the Stars alongside
his partner Pete Murgatroyd Schmerkowsky. Please welcome Vernon Davis to
the show. Vernon, What's Up?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What's up?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm doing good? How you doing good?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We have a whole news transition from football to what
you're doing now, and it's really impressive And I have
so many questions for you. So we're going to just
get down and dirty. Okay, we're going to take it
back to little Vernon. But first I want to ask
you who is Vernon Davis? Behind the football field, behind
the big screen and behind everything? Just like, who are
(01:29):
you as a person?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I would like to say that I'm very benevolent. I
care about people. I'm all about giving back. I love
creating smiles and just making people happy. It just feels
good to be able to do something like that. I
like to work hard. I love work, and I love
like trying something new and becoming successful with it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, now I can see that that's awesome. And what
do you think people's biggest misconceptions are about you?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think the biggest biggest misconception about me would probably
be m I think the biggest thing, Like people who
don't know me and who don't follow me, they probably
think I'm just a football player, right because it's always
it's always football whenever I go out sometimes and people
don't know me, you play football? Okay, Okay, what else
(02:24):
do you do right?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Or what are you going to do now? Isn't that
the worst?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah? Exactly? What are you doing next? What have you
done the funniest thing. I hope you're investing your money right.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh, it is such a diss Let's go back to
when you were growing up. What was your family dynamics like.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh, so my grandparents raised me and my six siblings
in like a three bedroom house. And my grandmother she
was she was like a housemaid. My granddad was a
maintenance man. And it was pretty much we were I mean,
we were comfortable, we were good. My grandmother grandfather always
made sure that we had everything we needed. A lot
(03:05):
of people might look it's like, oh he grew up.
It was tough growing up the way he was brought
up in Washington, d c. But there were some challenges,
But as far as being taken care of as a child,
my grandparents always provided for us.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's beautiful. What is your first memory as a kid, Like,
your very first.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Memory, my very first memory as a kid, Let me
go back. I would say maybe playing outside in the
snow with my mom.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Oh I love that, Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
What made it? Like? Why football?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So was it something that you always wanted to do?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Like?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
What was the first exposure I guess to the sport
that made you want to really take it seriously or
even try it.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, I don't think football was. It was never a
dream of mine to play football. I always wanted to
play basketball, soccer. In grade school, I was a tumbler
on the cheerleader team.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Oh really, she said, Yes, it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yes, I used to do flips.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
No, I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So I never really planned to play football. I would
just go out recreationally and play with the guys. But
as far as sports, I always played basketball. It wasn't
until I was in eighth grade. Between eighth and tenth
grade where I decided to play football basketball. I knew
it wasn't going to work for me because they had
to start in five When I walked into a high
school in the tenth grade, and I knew that football
(04:32):
was going to be my only option.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So I just put my heart and soul into that.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Why Because I think I felt like it was the
only option I had. Really, I didn't want to do
anything else. I didn't want to play any other sport
but football because I felt like I was good at it.
I was always my biggest strength was my ability to
be able to run right and when I was outside
on the track with the older guys. I would measure
myself up against them and I would always outrun them.
(04:58):
And so from that day I said, you know what,
I think I have a chance at this. And I
just kept going and they saying, you.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Know, well I And did your grandparents and parents support you, like,
do they they saw your talent or did they not
want you to play football at first?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
No, my grandmother didn't want me to play football.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
She never watched She never watched my games until they
were done. Like when I was in the when I
made it to the pros, she would always watch the
game after, you know, after the game was over, she
would talk to me and say, oh, I recorded the game,
I'll go watch it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
But even in high school and college, she never really
came to the games.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
She was always afraid She didn't want to see me
get hurt?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh yeah, I figured, yeah, because it's one thing to
watch it on TV and then it's one thing to
watch it in person. It is it's a different experience
for sure. And how about your parents, what role did
they play in your life?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
My parents were never really around. My grandmother had me
since I was two, since I was one. You know,
sometimes parents struggle try to find themselves, you know, no,
you know, I'm not faulting them or anything like that,
but it's just yeah, it was just what.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It was exactly. My father is the same. By the way,
rest in peace is past now. But thank you. How
about your siblings?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah? Seven of us?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Seven total?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Gosh, all raised by your grandparents, raised by my grandparents. Wow,
they are superhuman. Yeah, and what was the dynamics like?
Are you the oldest?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
I am the oldest, yees, and the next behind me
is Vonte.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Rest in peace, Rest in peace, my condolences.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh, thank you. Yeah, he's four years younger than me.
And then so on goes on. My youngest sibling is
twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
And are they all were they all like sports related
or not necessarily?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
No, not necessarily just Vante and my youngest brother behind me.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
My heart goes out to you and your family. That's horrible,
is there? Do you I mean this happened recently? Correct
with his passing. Do you know how this happened?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Or yeah, April first, it happened. I'm still unaware of
what exactly happened because the reports didn't come out yet.
But you know there was no foul play, so it
was probably due to something he put in his body.
I'm not quite sure what it was. That's the only
thing I can think of, because he didn't have any
(07:27):
health issues.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right. Do you think that it has anything to do
with CT? It obviously is a very physical sport, and
there isn't much you can do with CT because you
can't They can't assess until you're until you've passed. Is
that correct? The brain?
Speaker 2 (07:44):
That is right? You have to send the brain down
to Boston. I was going to send my brother's brain
to Boston, but you only have forty eight hours to
send the brain. So yeah, but my brother passed away
Saturday night and we found him on Monday. So by
the time I could really come up with a decision
to have to talking to the family to send his brain,
(08:05):
it was to you only.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Wait, why forty eight that's it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's like forty eight hours?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, you is?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You have limited The clock is ticket as soon as
they decease.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Do you think that has anything to do with anything
with Jacoby, with your brother, with other football players that
may have passed too soon?
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know, I can't really say exactly because I don't
know exactly what happens when CTE is on the brain. Like, Okay,
if you have a certain amount of ct on your brain,
what does it cause? When does it start? When does
it start affecting you? And how does it make you behave? Right?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
We know based on the people the history of.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Football players dying and how they killed themselves or or whatever, right,
how it happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the behavior and things
of that nature. But I don't I can't really say,
you know, I don't really know, and it maybe I
don't think it's the NFL that that. I don't think
(09:12):
it's the NFL. I think it's a combination of like
just over time, just wear and tear trauma over time,
just you know, starting from when kids were playing Pop
Warner right all the way up until they getting the NFL,
and over that period of time, maybe it starts to
affect you, especially after you're done playing. We got to
(09:34):
really figure out that correlation between guys, Yeah, when they
stop playing, you know, because all this stuff happens when
they're done playing.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
But then, yeah, if you only have forty eight hours
to send your brain over to have them, you know,
really dissect it, I'm sure they haven't had enough study
yet as far as statistics go. But it's scary because
it's just that, like what can you do to prevent it?
Do you have any suggestions as to like what could
the you know, NFL well or anyone playing football, Like
(10:01):
do the helmets need to be restructured? Like what happens?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I think they're doing. I think the NFL and
every from collegiate on down to the high school, I
think they're doing. They're doing a wonderful job as far
as figuring out change right with the cushions on the
helmet to Q thirty innovations like the Q collar that
a lot of these NFL guys are wearing, and it's
(10:25):
just they're doing everything they can to protect these guys.
And I think it's something that has to be done
because it's really sad to see these guys, you know,
take their lives or just.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Can't seem to handle the depression.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
I had depression when I was playing. I mean year
probably back in twenty twelve, I had a severe case
of depression. Like I think the thing with me was
I was able to I was really I was fully
equipped with from a spiritual standpoint, from just having wisdom
and understanding, like, hey, if I take my life life,
(11:00):
then yeah, that's just not right. But I was at
a point where I felt like I had nothing to
live for.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
What triggered that, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I think I woke up one night. I woke up
in training camp one morning, one night in the middle
in the middle of the night, and I remember going
out into the hallway that the security guard was there, and
my heart started racing. I was like panicking for no
reason from out my out of my sleep. And from
that point on, I've never really experienced anything like that before.
I thought I was dying.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Right, the anxiety like it was it a panic attack
type or.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, it was anxiety. It was like a I don't
know what triggered my mind to even getting that to
get in that state. It was just it was just
a crazy experience for me. And then just dealing with
the aftermath of that, it really put me in a
depressed state and I felt like I had nothing to
live for. It's just and at that moment, you don't
(11:56):
really think about your family, You don't think about the
life that you built, the the place you came from.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
The people, they're just you. Yeah, yeah, you don't.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Think about any thing. It's like your mind takes over
and nothing else really exists but the decision you're about
to make and how you and how you feel about it.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
You know, first, thank you for opening up, and I'm
sorry you had to deal with that, did you? And
also with mental health, people are only now starting to
talk about it like it's not necessary. And still it's
like I can't imagine with men. You know, it's not
necessarily with women, it's almost expected now today. But how
about for you? How were you able to be able
to talk it through? Did you go see a therapist
(12:40):
or yes?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I hired a therapist when I was playing.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
And I also started reading scriptures and I started reading
like self help books and I really felt, I really
feel like it really it helped me out tremendously and
I was able to really have a different perspective and
find some peace with than my spirit.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Wow. And you were still active as obviously still playing
right twenty When did you retire?
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I retired in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Wow. Okay, so you still had eight solid years on
the field.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah. I don't know if you know about this book
that's coming out, but I got a book coming out.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I do, and we were going to talk. I was
hoping I could read it before this interview, but it
wasn't out. I was like stalking it on Audible and
I couldn't find it because it's not out yet. But
I did pre order it and everyone should, all my
listeners better get it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
I did the audible you did?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
How was that a lot of work?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
That was?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Oh my gosh, Oh my goodness, so hard.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's going to be a really good book. I know,
because you have a colorful life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, it's good. I think it's gonna be good.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Was it therapeutic for you?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
It was?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Oh my goodness, it was so therapeutic.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
There were things that I had to talk about that
I didn't address to any of my therapists over time,
and it allowed me to really think deeply about those
situations that I ran into back back when I was.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Younger, crazy. Right, Yeah, So would you say therapists, I've
been in therapy since I was four and I still
am to this day. But I love that you are
open to talk about it. Do you are you consistent
(14:23):
with therapy? Was this was twenty twelve year trigger to
like maybe see a professional or oh.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, I was. I think it was. I was seeing
a professional before that, because when you when you join
the NFL, they recommend that you have a therapist because
there's so many things these young guys go through. Some
guys might get on the team and then maybe it's
not working out for them, right, They had all this
hype coming from out of college and now it's just
not working for them, so they recommend seeing a therapist.
(14:51):
But I continue to see a therapist. But when I
had the situation with the panic disorder, I started to
see the therapist regularly, and I just carry it out
up until now. And I feel like everything we do,
we should always have a coach, even when it comes
to acting, when it comes to to just life, to anything,
you should always have a coach, a professional.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
And someone who's not biased. That's very important, right. Any
advice before we talk dancing with the stars, any advice
to any active football players who may have these feelings
arise and don't know what to do with them.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I think they should really. I think when it comes
to just any human being in general, just be in
touch with your spirit, your inner being, because there's so
much to yourself that you don't even know That's why
we gain so much wisdom over time, because as we
get older, we go through so many different experiences and
it causes us to have a different perspective. But if
we can get ahead of the game and tap into
(15:51):
our inner being, then it'll definitely help us when times
get tough like that. And like I said before, that
is that's the biggest issues. Like we got was run
into these problems that they never dealt with before. All
of a sudden, I'm having a panic. This hack I
never I've never been here before. I don't fight a flight,
yeah fighter, okay, yeah, Now I can't handle it. What
do I do? I don't know what to do. So
(16:13):
then they get depressed and they take their life or
they just do something chaotic, you know what I mean.
It's just and it's all because they're not they're not
equipped spiritually. Even when I was playing ball all show,
when I was playing football for the forty nine ers
all the way up until the Washington the Washington Commanders,
I used to go out and I used to always
think that I was going to drop the ball. I
just had this fear, but I knew, I knew it
(16:36):
somewhere inside of me. I knew it wasn't going to happen,
but I had this fear of doing it, and that's
when I would go out and have my best games.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Did you ever drop the ball?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I would never drop I would dropped the ball before,
but every time I had this thought, right, It wasn't
every game, but as I got older, it started to
happen more and more. But luckily I had you know,
good people in my corner to help me with my
you know, with my mental and yeah, yeah, it just
never happened. Everything that I was thinking was going to happen,
it didn't happen. It didn't come the past.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Did you ever feel like that on Dancing with the Stars, Like,
would you like work up your thoughts so much in
your head that maybe the execution it got affected by it?
Or no?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, I used to think that a little bit, not
as much as football because I was so determined. It
was new for me. But there would be times where
I had those thoughts and I would stumble a bit,
but I would catch myself like come.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
On, you got this, hey, So how did you start
the conversation about joining Dancing with the Stars?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Oh goodness, it was, But like I said, it was
something new. It was something I'm always open to trying
different things, and I thought it would be a great opportunity,
especially for everything that I wanted to step into, a
different fan base, a different opportunity for me to be
able to learn how to dance right. And I took
a lot from it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'd very great, you dance right. Have you danced before?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Never? I couldn't dance at all.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Well, did you talk to any of your colleagues about
Dancing with the Stars prior to you doing this?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, I had a wonderful conversation with Josh Norman because
we were playing together when he was when he was
on the show, So he talked to me about it
and told me about the times he had And yeah,
how much you really appreciated going on the show and
learning how to.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Dance more so, did you expect it to be as
consuming as it was?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
No? I didn't. First.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
They don't tell you that right, like, because then no
one would sign up for this show. If they said
it's seven days a week, it's going to take over
your whole life and put a smile on your face.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I would be up in my living room in la
I will be up for the time I walked into
the into the into my apartment. I will be in
the living room because just working on the routine until
like one in the morning. So I'm working the extra
four to five hours.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's why I went to the athletes. We love you
for that.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, It's like it was crazy. I'm like, oh my goodness.
I didn't want I did not want to do anything.
I didn't want to go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
All I want to know and just relax, you know what.
I dance with Emmittt. He's like, I'm only giving you
four hours a day. And I'm like, okay, fine, only
give me four hours a day because like he also
refused to move to la At that time, he was
married to Pat. He was living in Dallas, and so
we flew back every week. We had a six week
training period. It's the longest ever before the premiere. And
(19:35):
this was after the second season. Yeah, so season three
and he's like, I'm only doing four hours and I'm like,
good luck with that when we start doing two dances.
But okay. But the great thing about Emmett like you
is that he went home and he must have practiced
like he was eating, breathing, ballroom dancing and I'm telling you,
this is stuff that actors, let's say for example, I'm
(19:55):
not saying all, but some don't do they don't even
think about doing it right, because it's like it's a
work ethic that's been in as part of your identity,
you know, and we appreciate it as pro dancers because
there's nothing like it. It's the work you do by yourself,
not with us, by the way that actually happens, and
it makes it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, now you're right about that. My grandmother thought
I was gonna last two weeks.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Oh thanks, grandma. Did she ever come and see you?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
No, she watched it, she did. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Was she proud of you?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, she's very proud.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay, So how was What was your first impression of
Peter when you walked into the rehearsal space.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I thought she was very beautiful. I was like, Wow,
I get a chance to work with this beautiful girl.
And when I met her, I thought she was going
to be easy on me. But she was tough. Oh
she was tough.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I was like, Oh, this is gonna be this is
going to be a breeze. I'm just gonna go out here.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
I'm gonna get it and she's going to be cool
about everything. Oh she was on me, damn it. Burning.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
What was the most challenging part of the show for you.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I think the most challenging part was having to come
up with a routine within two days because they wanted
us to They wanted to film everything right within two days,
and it was that was very challenging to me. I mean,
I'm like, wow, this is.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
This is crazy that I didn't stress like it's they're
called the wise? Are you talking about the whites?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
The whits? Exactly the whites?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And I heard you do an interview where you said
you were almost through the towel and because you were
so discouraged at one point, can you say more about that?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I felt like I wanted to throw the towel.
I knew I wasn't going to do it because I
never I was always trained to never give up, and
I didn't just want to walk out because I was
excited about being there. But there are times where it
gets tough and your mind is telling you I can't
do this, I don't want to do this. And I
(22:01):
felt that way a couple of times. I'm used to criticism,
got it I used to construct the criticism. That's always
been my world. It was just the amount of everything
was just so foreign to me. Like, I'm not a dancer.
I've never been the guy on the field to come
up with dance moves because I just I didn't have
(22:23):
the coordination. So it was just it was just tough
just learning. It was like learning a new language and
you had like limited time.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Did you ever not agree with the creative?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I believe, I can't remember what it was. Was
that the I.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Think when we did I just saw all your dances.
I was just gonna say tango, yes.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Oh that was Oh my goodness, that was so that
was so hard?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Was it hard because you had to stay and hold Yeah,
and you had.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
To been at your knees and it was so tough. Yeah,
that was tough.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
And with the height difference right with you and Peter,
Yeah yeah. What was so tough about it?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Just yeah, just bending and and just even like the
different moves. It was I've never done anything like that.
So of coordination of it. When I look back, I'm like, wow,
I learned all of this stuff. Now when I'm out
in the public, everyone's always asking me, show me a
dance move, Show me a dance move. So I'm out
there doing tellyspins with them. Yeah, they loved the telespins.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Oh my gosh, they you did some good telespins.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, they loved to tell us. That's signature, that's my signature.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
The same with Emmett. Why do you think football players
do so well on the show?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah? The discipline and everything we have within ourselves too
to not want to fail, right, right, And I give
you an example like when I was when I was
playing football, I used to catch. I used to stay
up the practice and would catch three hundred balls just
because I wanted to go out and do really really well.
(24:06):
I mean I couldn it was just something in my mind.
I was just always working. And I think football players
are wired like that, which is wired.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
For success totally. And do you believe in perfection or
do you believe there's no such thing as perfection?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
There's no such thing of perfection, But I think you
can strive to be perfect. Yeah, and you can set
your that could be your target, right, and you want
that to be your target, even though you're never going
to be perfect. But every time we go out with
an opportunity, we can get closer and closer to that target.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, like you set small goals or how do you
do that?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah? I set small goals. I like, yeah, small goals
because I think the smaller things always lead to the
bigger things. And if you're detail and you can handle
everything specifically, one at a time, it'll lead to just
greater opportunities for sure.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Did you feel feel like you got underscored at times?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, I definitely thought I thought I got underscored. I mean,
I'm a guy who I mean, I can't even do
the Running Man, you know. I'm telling you, Joe, I
could not do the Running Man before I came on
dance with your court.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I don't care what you're saying to yourself. It's a lie.
You're coordinated. I've seen you.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Everyone who knows me, even in my family, they know
I can't dance for dancers with my brothers. I'm telling you,
I was so bad. But I think just the willingness
to just excel at it allowed me to just I'm
a repetition guy. That's how I learned something like, I'll
do it a million times until I get it right,
and I think that's what that's what I was able
(25:39):
to do. I was able to like really take take
what I learned and perfect it over over time, one
one at a time. And but yeah, I think I was.
I was underscored. I mean, they should have gave me
props for like what I was able to do. Come
in there and learn that stuff, because that's not easy.
That is so hard.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
For the most part, you have a great like you
go walk away from this experience learning something about yourself, right,
or yes, you.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Learned a lot about yourself and it feels so good.
I learned that I'm tougher than I.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Thought I was really even after football.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yes, oh my gosh, there was nothing. There was nothing
in my life that was harder than learning how to
come up with the routine dance move like what I
learned on Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
That was very, very challenging for me.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
It was like football was challenging in the beginning, and
as I got older and I got really good at it,
it got easier. Like playing fourteen years and as a
professional athlete was really easy for me. Oh right, it was. Yeah,
that was because the older I got, the more the
more wisdom I gain, and the more because the way
I approached it was I think a little. It was
(26:52):
different than other guys might approach it. And I tell
this story all the time. I shared it with my son.
And because I never had surgery, knock on? Would I
played fourteen years as a professional athlete, never had surgery?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
And that's a lot of that has to do with
how I approached the game. Like I was on. I
treated it like a hole in, like an operation like
I had. I got three massages a week. I started
chiropractice twice a week. But you know what, I wouldn't
do it just during the season. I would do it
maintenance for twelve months. I did twelve months out of
the year.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yes, I mean, like, isn't that how Tom Brady and
all them also do it too. It's like, it's not
about just when you're in season. It's more important when
you're not in season.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
But you would think as a professional athlete, right, and
I watched this for fourteen years, guys they would do
what they need to do during the season. Then the
off season comes, they take breaks. They kind of pull
back a little bit, right, They stopped doing the things,
the routine maintenance and things of that nature. But would
you would think as a top tier athlete, you would
continue to to really work on your body and take
(27:57):
care of it. But it doesn't work that way. But
the same way I took care of my body, I
approached the craft that way. I was always in the books.
I was always working on the craft.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
The little things you're curious.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah, I was always working on those things.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And that's why.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
And you can tell a person who puts to work
in based on the longevity in the career they had.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, when you got eliminated, you got a little emotional.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Why when I got eliminated, I got emotional because I
was shocked because I felt like I should have been there,
absolutely because I'm not a dancer. You know, I'm not
a dancer. And what I did was impressive. I mean
everyone thought it was impressive, and especially people who know me,
Like I came a long way with learning learning something
(28:47):
I didn't know how to do, and it meant a
lot to me to be there, Like I wanted to win.
I wanted to I want to keep going. And not
only that, I called there a relationship with a lot
of you all on the show, and it was it
was just I wasn't ready to leave. I felt like
there was some some favorites, and it was very political. Yeah,
(29:08):
in a sense. Every time I turned around there, I
look at the scoreboard. It's like I in that night,
I thought I did much better, but here it is
they're giving this guy or this couple, I know, more
points than we scored.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
So it was just it was just like it was
crazy then when you can't get over the hunt.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Would you ever do All Stars if there was like
or a DWTS Athlete season, if there was one.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Absolutely I loved Yes, I love dancing. Yes, I think
I I'll come on much stronger because I know how
to count music now, I know how to you know,
I kind of got some stuff with me. Now I
can move a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yes, See, look at you, You've always been able to move.
Come on, mister, I'm not coordinated. I'll show you someone
not coordinated vernon quickly. I mean, you did a movie
with Morgan Freeman. You're like going to be an Oscar
winner here soon. So what how was that for you?
Is it hard for the acting world to take you
seriously at first?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah? I think it is. But I think what's happening now?
Everywhere I go people don't even talk about football anymore
because I've done so many projects. It's like the first
thing they say, I saw you in this movie. I
was watching TV and I saw somebody on the screen
and it was you movie man. That was a great movie.
So it's like it's like it's like two different worlds.
I feel like I would live two different worlds. It's
like no one's start. They know me as a football player,
(30:25):
but they don't leave with that anymore. They don't talk
about the games I play. They talk about the movie.
How is it working with Bruce Willis? How was it
working with Morgan Freeman. So it's pretty It's pretty cool,
even though I know I think my my career and
life is just starting, you know. But for me to
be able to have a good jump on some wonderful projects,
I think that's it means a lot. I just got
(30:46):
to keep moving forward, keep being creative, and just enjoy it.
As long as you enjoy it and you're doing it
for the right reason, I think everything else will work
out for you.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
From what I read about you, I feel like you've
planned this even when you were still active as a
football player. What advice do you have for football players
should they are already be thinking about what's next for
them after retirement.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, all my life, I've always pictured myself ahead of
where I was.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Like when I was in high school, I believed I
was in college.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
When I was in college, I believed I was a
professional ballplayer. Right. I always put myself ahead. And then
when I got into the NFL, I started. I didn't
know exactly what I wanted to do, but I took
a chance on a few things, and then I started
getting more to business. And then I took a class
at the Shelton Theater of Art in downtown San Francisco,
and from there I fell in love with acting. And
(31:38):
then I started seeking opportunities in the movie in the
film space. So I started planting all these seeds so
when I was done, I was able to roll into everything.
And I also encourage guys, whether it's playing ball or not,
plant as many seeds as you can. What I mean
by that is opportunities. Learn of course what you're getting into.
(32:02):
But if there's an investment opportunity here and you think
you want to do it like that, see invest in it.
But little always put in what you can afford to lose.
And that's what I tell everybody. And also, if you
own ten percent of ten different things and you owned
one hundred percent of something, right, you don't have to
put all your eggs in one basket, right. And you
know that's just being staying systematic about everything. That's what
(32:24):
I've been able to do. You know. Now since I've
been doing that, you know, it's kind of like it's
crazy because I don't have time in the day nothing
Like I can't hang out with my buddies no more
because I don't have I just don't have time. I
didn't put my id created so many opportunities for myself,
from real estate to fitness centers to just like to
(32:45):
the to the creative space of acting. Yeah, yeah, just everything.
And now I understand what it's like not to have time.
Like I literally don't have time. It's like every time
I sit down, I got something to do. Every time
I stand up, I got something to do. When I
get on a plane, I'm still I still have something
to do every single day. It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Do you have time for your kids and you make
time right?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Oh yeah, I prioritize that, like my kids, My kids
will be here and like in an hour, we're driving
down to Columbia to play on I'm a part of
this corn hole league on ESPN.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Of course you are. What else are you a part of?
Just add to the freaking to do list?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
They call me us of Year. So I'm taking my kids.
We're gonna jump in the car and we will go
down to Ohio. So I make time. That's that's my
first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Let's do rapid fire. You've got a lot of fan
questions too, so we kind of incorporated the rapid fire
and fan questions. Quick okay, quick sticks, We're going to
answer this quickly, and you got to answer the question.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Ready, let's go. Let's go.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Let who falls in love first? The pro answer or
the celebrity?
Speaker 2 (33:51):
A celebrity?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Is the show rigged?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Were there any moment where you felt the producers manipulated
this storyline for drama?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Did you ever sense any favoritism from the judges towards
certain contestants? Yes, you're the best at this game. Which
judges feedback? Did you find the most frustrating just the name.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Maybe Carrie Carrian.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Did you think the judges' critiques were harsher on you
compared to other contestants?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Did you ever feel that the judges were too harsh
on you because of your football background?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Okay, wait there's more. Were there any moments where you
felt the scoring was biased? It's basically the same question
I keep asking you. Yes, did you think the scoring
system was fair throughout the season?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
No?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
How did you feel about Caitlin Bristow winning the Mirror
Ball Trophy?
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Awful?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
This is great, this is what we should have done
the whole interview. Okay, do you feel like Nelly should
have made the finals?
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Soutly not.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Do you think a J. McLean from the Backstreet Boys
had an advantage because of his dance background? Oh?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, hell no.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
He didn't, And I will fight that with you on
another at another time. Was there a celebrity who you
felt didn't deserve to go as far as they did?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
I would say say more, but we're not. Who did
you bond with the most as far as your fellow
co stars on dancing?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Ooh ooh that's a good question. I'm gonna have to.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Say Peta not included an ann hash. Yeah she's she
was amazing. She was really amazing Rest in peace.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah she was.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
That was my girl.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh I love her?
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, girl.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
How did you feel about Tyra Banks as the new
host of Dancing with the Stars? One word? How did
your experience on Dancing the Stars compared to your NFL
training camps?
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Oh, Dance with the Stars is more brutal, for sure.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
How did Peter's coaching style compared to your football coaches?
Speaker 2 (36:05):
She was very she was more gentle, really, yeah, she was.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Do you think you were eliminated too soon?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I thought I was eliminated way too soon.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Vernon, tell us what you're working on now? When people
can get your book or if they can pre order it,
and where and where people can find you?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, playing ball life. Lessons for my Journey to the
Super Bowl and beyond will be on all platforms, Amazon, Barnes,
and Noble, you name it, It'll be all over the place.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Audible.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
My Voice Good comes out of August the twentieth, and
I'm super excited about it.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
I think it's a great story. I think people can
take a lot of lessons out.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Of there and really learn from them and kind of
see the person that I am, not who I am
as Vernon Davis, the celebrity athlete who got a big paycheck.
You know, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, It's like
I feel like a lot of times people see me
for who I am now, they don't really think of
about like what I had to go through and where
(37:01):
I came from, you know what I mean kind of say,
but yeah, have that and then be on the lookout
for a movie that I have coming out with Steven
Spielberg's daughter, Destrie Spielberg.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
She directed a movie, a film that I'm in called
Please Don't feat the Children. Oh okay, Yeah, it's a
big film for me. You got I can't tell you
about it. You gotta watch it. They kind of see,
we got some studs. We got some stars in that movie,
some young stars. I mean there, those young kids were credible.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Wow. I am so proud of you. Yeah, thank you, seriously,
thank you. It was so good to catch up. Thank you,
Thank you all so much for listening. Please rate and
review wherever you're listening to this podcast, even if you've
done it before. It's crucial for the podcast's growth. Your
support means the absolute world to me, So take a
minute to leave a review and rating. Remember we're back
(37:51):
to three episodes per week every Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.
Check out the new Rewatch episode this Wednesday. Until next time,
Love you guys, Bye,
Host
Cheryl Burke
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