July 21, 2023 • 54 mins
Ever wonder about "The End"? Sandra wants you to know that amazing bursts of energy and clarity can happen in the last moments of Life.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the
supernatural and the unexplained. Get ready now for Shades of
the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are thoughts
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Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been
on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know
that our loved ones have survived physical debt, and so
will we Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. There is
(01:06):
a term that I have never used before on Shades
of the Afterlife? Can you believe it? Over one hundred
and forty episodes, this term has been appearing quite a
bit in conversations and Internet searches. All of a sudden,
there it is. The term is terminal lucidity. I know
(01:29):
that we've spoken about just before someone passes or the
weeks they can be alert, see loved ones that are
right there in the room with them, and they appear
just like the real people, the doctors, the nurses and families.
But there's a closely related phenomena, and that's this terminal lucidity,
(01:50):
which may involve loved ones coming to visit or it
may not. I remember the very first story I had
ever heard heard of this, and I just kind of
put it in the realm of deathbed visions. I had
a wonderful conversation with a hospice chaplain named Steve Kearney,
(02:11):
who I knew when I was cooking for the race teams.
He knew I was interested in life after death, and
he wanted to tell me the extraordinary story of when
his father died. He told me that his father had
been in a coma for months, and shortly before his death,
he became alive, awake, swung his legs over the bed,
(02:35):
and of course everybody's trying to stop him because he's
hooked up to all these tubes and he's looking as
if looking into heaven, and he's saying it's so beautiful there,
And they said, Dad, what do you see? And he
started telling them people that he saw that were deceased,
and then he said he saw a certain woman who
(02:56):
had died during this man's coma. So he was never
told that this lady died, but he could see her there.
What else can you see? And he felt like he
heard Jesus saying that he only has a short time
to live to do the things he wants to do
because he wouldn't have his body too much longer. What
(03:18):
did he want? He wanted an apple pie, he wanted
his family together watching a football game, and he wanted
a chocolate milkshake. With having all of those, the man
was crystal clear lucid alive, giving the family the feeling
like he was back, and just a couple of nights later,
(03:40):
he passed away. So terminal lucidity is when someone doesn't
have proper brain or body function and comes alive shortly
before death. The more I researched this today, the more
hospice nurses and doctors and people putting comments under YouTube
(04:02):
videos have experienced this with their loved ones. There have
been cases of Alzheimer's patients who really have lost use
of their mind, who haven't spoke, and again they rally.
They come back to life for just a very short time,
(04:23):
but can have a conversation for an hour or two
that makes sense. That's talking about life. They have memories. Now,
how is this possible in a brain with very little
brain function? There's something extraordinary going on here. This article
comes from the Scientific American magazine, written by Jesse Baring.
(04:47):
When my mother died in early two thousand, we had
a final farewell that some researchers might consider paranormal. At
the time, it did strike me as remarkable, and after
all that these years, I still can't talk about it
without getting emotional. The night before mom died at the
age of fifty four after a long battle with ovarian cancer,
(05:10):
I was sleeping in my mother's bedroom alongside her. The
truth was that I'd already grieved her loss a few
days earlier, from the moment she lapsed into what the
hospice nurses had assured us was an irretrievable coma. So
at this point, waiting for her body to expire as
a physical machine wasn't as difficult as the loss of
(05:34):
her beforehand, which is when I'd completely broken down. It
had all happened so quickly, and I suppose, being young
and in denial about how imminent her death really was,
I hadn't actually gotten around to telling her how very
grateful I was to have had her as my mom
and just how much I loved her. But then around
(05:57):
three a m. I awoke to find her reaching her
hand out to me, and she seemed very much aware.
She was too weak to talk, but her eyes communicated all.
We spent about five minutes holding hands, me sobbing, kissing
her cheeks, telling her everything I'd meant to say before
(06:19):
but hadn't. Soon she closed her eyes again, this time
for good. She died the next day. I didn't quite
see the experience as supernatural when it happened, and I'm
not sure I do today either, But I also didn't
have a name for the experience then. In fact, one
didn't even exist. It does now, called terminal lucidity. The
(06:43):
term was coined by German biologist Michael Nahm. He was
the first to review in an article on the curious
subject of cognitively impaired people becoming clear headed as their
death approaches. According to him, and of terminal lucidity. They
have been recorded for millennia, from accounts by classical scholars
(07:06):
such as Hippocrates and Cicero to the nineteenth century medical
luminaries like Benjamin Rush, who wrote the first American paper
on mental illness. Here's Hownam defined terminal lucidity in that
original article the reemergence of normal or unusually enhanced mental
(07:29):
abilities in dull, unconscious, or mentally ill patients shortly before
their death, including considerable elevation of mood and spiritual affectation,
or the ability to speak in a previously unusual, spiritualized
and elated manner. The author characterizes terminal lucidity as one
(07:55):
of the more common but lesser known end of life experiences.
On his list include deathbed visions, apparitions, near death or
out of body experiences, telepathic impressions, and so on. But
terminal lucidity is a vague concept, needless to say. First
(08:15):
of all, what exactly should qualify as the time period
shortly before death minutes, hours, days, maybe months. One man
who'd been completely catatonic for nearly two decades became almost
normal and lucid just before he passed away. And the
second subtype of terminal lucidity. The author tells us full
(08:40):
mental clarity can appear quite abruptly and unexpectedly, just hours
or days before death, and one study, seventy percent of
caretakers in a British nursing home said they'd personally observed
people with dementia becoming lucid shortly before the deaths. A
(09:01):
ninety two year old woman with advanced Alzheimer's disease, for instance,
hadn't recognized her family for years, but the day before
her death, she had a pleasantly bright conversation with them,
recalling everyone's name. She was even aware of her own
age and where she'd been living all of this time.
(09:24):
Such incidents happened regularly. I'm going to pause reading this
article right now because I found an excellent conversation between
two researchers of life after death talking about terminal lucidity.
So after the break we will hear from them. I'd
(09:46):
like to read you one more example. This woman says,
in the mid nineties, with her eyesight rapidly going, in
her memory diminishing, my maternal grandmother, Kitty Lewis, moved into
a care home after suffering a series of mini strokes
and being diagnosed with vascular dementia. From there, her behavior
(10:09):
began to change. This prim proper, polite and warm woman
for decades, a stalwart of whichever community she was in,
had her personality twisted and transformed by dementia, and she
became paranoid, aggressive, and verbally abusive. Her short term memory
(10:31):
was shot and the rest of it was patchy. She
would rarely know who we were as her family, and
in the last couple of years she was just angry, depressed,
and confused, and she didn't want to see people. We
visited anyway, sitting with her while she wanted to die.
(10:51):
Then in October, she was admitted into the hospital having
collapsed with a urinary track infection. For a week she
was barely conscious, but on the Sunday when my parents,
cousin and I visited, she was sitting up in bed
smiling as we walked in. For the next two hours,
she laughed and joked, completely cognitive coherent, lucid. A lifetime
(11:18):
of memory had returned, and we took full advantage of
it as she regaled us with escapades from her past.
My mom, who knew many of them, quietly verified everything
she said. Her funny, eloquent, vibrant mother had returned. It
all came back to her in one rush. It was
(11:41):
like a bolt of lightning. The clouds cleared. After we
left that afternoon. My grandma slipped into a semi conscious state,
soon not knowing who my mother was, and died within days.
We live in what I call a human energy vehicle.
We are the driver of the car. The car is
(12:03):
our body. The driver is us, our soul, and this
energy vehicle. Our body is so intelligent we don't need
to tell it when to breathe. We get a little
signal when it's time to sleep, when it's time to eat.
Do we know that there are trillions of cells in
our body, each doing different things, and how our heart,
(12:24):
our liver, our kidneys, all of that functions without us
having to be in control. I think for the dying process,
whether it's terminal lucidity, or whether it's seeing our loved
ones appear helping us cross that finish line, that the
body and the mind and our consciousness has a plan
(12:48):
for us. It's all regulated, and it's all controlled, and
it's all just one more way of saying, you are
a miraculous being, and you do not die, So let's
go to the break and we'll be back. You're listening
to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network.
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Speaker 1 (14:14):
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Keep it right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
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Speaker 4 (14:56):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
and we are talking about terminal lucidity. Here's a name
that you should know, an amazing author that I really
respect is Jeffrey Mishlov. He's the author of such books
as New Thinking Aloud, is Their Life after Death and
(15:17):
the Roots of Consciousness. He has fascinating conversations and really
digs about life after death, consciousness, and so much more.
In fact, if you go to YouTube, just look up
New Thinking Aloud with Jeffrey Mishlov. But here's another good
(15:38):
reason to listen to him. You may have heard of
the Bigelow Institute's recent contest giving away a total of
a million dollars for proof of the afterlife that our
consciousness survives death. Jeffrey Mishlov is the first place winner
and The title of his entry is called Beyond on
(16:00):
the Brain, The Survival of Human Consciousness after Permanent bodily Death.
You can read it at Bigelowinstitute dot org. So what
we're going to do is evesdrop on a conversation he
had with doctor Stafford Betty on this topic of terminal lucidity. Now.
(16:20):
Doctor Betty is a professor of religious studies at California
State University and is the author of the books The
Afterlife Unveiled. What the Dead are telling us about their world?
When did you ever become less by dying? Afterlife? The evidence?
Speaker 7 (16:40):
And more so, let's listen terminal lucidity. It's you know,
I think it's only been maybe in the last ten
years that I've even heard the term.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
That's right. It wasn't invented until twenty nine, two thousand
and nine. Can you believe that? And yet there have
been cases of terminal lucidity and the literature for the
last one hundred and twenty years. Yes, but there had
never been a term used to baptize the phenomena.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Well know, I suppose many people are just normally very
lucid as they get ill and as they die. It's
not unusual for a person to be lucid unless they've
suffered from some sort of a brain injury.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Exactly, or illness. And that's what terminal lucidity is looking at.
It's particularly looking at Alzheimer's patients. Take a woman who
has lost all ability to communicate with her visitors, with
her loved ones, and they come. She doesn't recognize them,
she doesn't know their name, she doesn't speak, she doesn't
(17:44):
seem to be even aware of her world. She's just
what we sometimes call a human vegetable.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Right.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
And then, for some strange reason, just before she dies
and her loved ones have come to gather around the
she irrupts into her old personality. Her brain is all
but totally destroyed, but suddenly she is able to communicate
with her loved ones. She speaks, she wonders about her
(18:14):
grandchildren and how they're doing. She knows everyone's names. She's
completely herself. This is an example of terminal lucidity, and
it happens. According to doctor Alexander Baianni, who's looked into
this more than anyone else alive, it happens in about
five to ten percent of Alzheimer's cases.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Well, I can say it happened to my mother who
tell me about that. My mother had Alzheimer's. She died
six years ago at the age of ninety, and she
was somewhat coherent before her death. I mean, her memory
was very, very bad, but she always recognized me. And
(18:57):
my wife Janelle was with her at this time, and
she reports that my mother just sort of sat up
in the bed and they had a lengthy conversation for
over two hours in which my mother was her old self,
like at least more than ten years earlier, before this
(19:20):
illness had destroyed so much of her memory. And they
talked about, you know, her marriage and her children, how
she was progressing with her disease. And she had had
a boyfriend who had died a year earlier, and she
was her Alzheimer's had progressed so badly that she kept
(19:41):
asking for him all the time the whole year. She
just could not digest the fact that he had died.
I see, But all of that was clear. She was
completely lucid.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
Right, that's terminal lucidity. How long did it take before
she died after that experience? Do you remember less than
a week?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Okay, there it is right. It usually runs between a
couple of weeks and just a matter of minutes. Yeah,
there it is now. Terminal lucidity is not something that
is confined to Alzheimer's. Anyone who has had a seriously
damaged brain or a brain that's been eaten away by
maybe cancer, is capable. Unpredictably, we never know who they're
(20:23):
going to.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
My wife had another similar experience with a client of
hers who a psychotherapy client who she had worked with
for many, many years, who was a very serious alcoholic
and had all sorts of emotional and physical problems and
attachments due to the alcoholism. And she died in childbirth.
(20:49):
It was very tragic circumstances. But shortly before her death,
I think it was the same day in fact, or
maybe the day before, she like my mother, sat up
in the hospital bed and they had a lengthy conversation.
And the interesting thing is that she seemed emotionally for
(21:10):
the first time, totally clear, totally objective about herself, able
to look at her own life and understand things that
had eluded her in psychotherapy for years and years. And
her greatest wish at that time is, oh, I wish
everybody could see me like this. Yeah, yeah, she knew
that this was different. Yeah, that's another example. Let me
(21:33):
go back into the past and dretch up a couple
of famous cases. A biologist, professor.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
The University of Freiburg in Germany, Michael Naum, is responsible
for bringing all of this stuff that we now call
terminal lucidity out of the dark and wrote a long
article for the Journal of Near Death Studies on famous
cases that he now recognized as being what we now
call termal lucidity. And the most famous case is that
(22:05):
of a girl whose name was Kita k a t
h e. Kita, a German girl, and she had the
absolutely she had. She had been born profoundly disabled, never
capable of as she grew older, of making any more
(22:27):
movement than just sort of spasmodic jerk. She had no
control over her body. She never learned a single word,
never spoken a word. Just a tragic case of someone
whom you would say it was better had she not
been born profound, profoundly retarded, and she had been hospitalized
her entire life. Okay, just left there basically the rod
(22:48):
away and I would say, fortunately, she contracted the disease
of tuberculosis as a teenager, and she was close to death,
and the most astonishing thing happened just before she died.
She became a lucid person, speaking German, singing Christian hymns.
(23:10):
And can you imagine the amazement of all of the staff,
somebody who had never spoken, never spoken a word.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
And I know this occurs that a nephew who had
the same condition born without a corpus colosive brain severely damaged.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
Unbelievable. Anyway, there she was, and she was a transformed person.
They spoke about how her face glowed with this kind
of spirituality, and up to this point it to have
been nothing but just, you know, kind of animalistic. The
only kind of sounds she ever made were animalistic sounds.
Absolute transformation. There's no way to explain via conventional brain
(23:50):
science how that could have happened. And that's true of
Alzheimer's patients. You know, their brains have been eaten up
to such an extent that there is no way to explain.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
These lucides generally considered irreversible.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
It's irreversible, it is, And this leads a number of
us to a very different kind of conclusion. The reason
these loose lucid moments happen is not because there's been
a sudden creation of billions of new brain cells in
this brain. It's that the being, the consciousness, the person
(24:27):
who really is, has managed to loosen herself or himself
from the brain. The soul in other words, if you
want to call it, that has managed to loosen itself
from the brain, and that has made it possible for
this remarkable transcendence.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
And loosen from the brain, but still in control of
the vocal cords.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
Somehow. It's very mysterious how this all works. Doctor Bognanni
uses a wonderful analogy. He talks of the consciousness or
the soul, if you will, spiritual self as being like
the sun in eclipse, and the moon is causing the eclipse.
(25:09):
If you move, and the moon, of course is like
the sick brain, you remove the moon or the sick brain,
then the sun shines. There was never anything wrong with
the sun in the first place. It's just that it
couldn't communicate because it was obstructed by the sick brain.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
So you, in a sense regard the cases of terminal
lucidity as evidence for the notion that the spirit or
mind or psyche or consciousness can operate independently of the
soma or the body, or the nervous system and brain.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
That's exactly right. It's sort of a duellist, exactly so.
And it is one of the nine types of evidence
for survival of death that I go through in my book.
It's I think it's the weakest of them, but I
think still it's very suggestive. And it becomes more suggestive
(26:04):
when you look at the research done by a doctor
in Britain named John Lorber. He was the head of
a hospital, or I guess it was a hospital. Six
hundred hydrocephalics were kept. Okay, and these are people with
big heads, water on the brain, yes, And in many
(26:27):
of these cases the brain has almost completely disappeared. The
fluid has basically taken the place of the brain.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I know you're on the edge of your seat waiting
for him to finish the story, but we have to
take a break, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio
in Coast to Coast a and Paranormal Podcast Network. The
(27:04):
Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children to
a world of information, experiences, and ideas. It can also
expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic safety
rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything, Do
everything for them. Hi, this is Wuija board expert Karen A.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
Dolman, and you're listening to the.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
Hi, this is ufologist Kevin Randall, and you're listening to
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
and we are eavesdropping on a very interesting conversation between
doctors Stafford Betty and Jeffrey mish Love on something called
terminal lucidity. Just before someone passes away, even if they
have had no brain function, can come back to life.
(28:34):
Let's continue his story.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
A doctor in Britain named John Lorber. He was the
head of a hospital. Six hundred hydrocephalics were kept okay,
and these are people with big heads water on the brain.
Many of these cases, the brain has almost completely disappeared.
The fluid has basically taken the place of the brain.
(29:02):
In thirty out of six hundred cases. The IQ's of
these people with very little brain left is one hundred
or more. That's what he was able to determine. In
one case, his star pupil had only five percent of
a normal brain an IQ of one hundred and twenty
(29:24):
six was functioning as a normal, intelligent person, and that
leads him to believe, and it leads me to believe
that the question is the brain really necessary should be asked,
because in a few cases it obviously isn't necessary, and
that seems to be supportive of the thesis that who
(29:49):
we really are is not brain dependent.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Well, there are a number of other cases in the
literature of people who suffered from major brain damage. I
remember there's a famous case from the nineteenth century of
a rail road worker who had a railroad spike through
his head exactly so I was able to function normally
exactly so.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Right. There's another case that doctor professor nam on Earth
of a woman who had been in an asylum for
eight years and she had some kind of brain damage.
It was never said what was the cause of it,
but she had turned into an appalling human being. The
(30:34):
only thing that ever came out of her mouth while
in this asylum for eight years were horrible curses. And
she also managed to develop a particular skill of spitting
very accurately on the shoes of the priest or the
doctor who came to visit her. She was uncannily accurate
with her spinning, all right, and so shortly before she died,
(30:59):
she hadn't come plea transformation of character and personality. She
remembered all of those episodes of spitting. She remembered all
of those cursings, and she was profoundly sorry for them. Yes,
she felt that she was not in control. She was
aware of what was happening, but she didn't feel that
she was in control. It just suggests the number of
(31:19):
ways that terminal lucidity can manifest itself, and it did
in this instance in a very different way.
Speaker 7 (31:26):
Well, when we think about brain function, right, one of
the intriguing things to me, for example, is parrots. Parrots
are animals that are highly intelligent. They can speak and
sometimes acquire a large vocabulary, and their speech is often
(31:46):
in context it makes sense. And yet they have tiny,
tiny little brains.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
It's true, that's true. Maybe even the dinosaurs are smarter
than we give them credit for. They also had tiny friends.
Speaker 7 (32:00):
In an era of computer technology where the processors are
getting smaller and smaller all the time, and yet more
and more powerful.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
I know.
Speaker 7 (32:08):
It's so so the size of the brain may not
be as determinative as was once thought. Where we do
all of these ratios between the brain mass and the body.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Weight exactly, So that does appear to be the case
when we look at Labbres research, that really does appear
to be the case. Only in five percent of the cases.
Let that be said. You know, the other ninety five
percent were pretty much lost in their hydrocephalic fluid and
they were not able to function. But this five percent
(32:40):
were able to function curiously for reasons we can't understand,
with very damaged brains or very tiny brains. Who knows why.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
Now. Earlier, you and I were having a conversation about
the relationship between terminal lucidity and deathbed visions. Oh okay,
can you pointed out to me you thought these are
very different.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
Yeah, And we had a little disagreement on this. I
would say this that you know, with in deathbed visions,
the patient, the dying person is talking lucidly to spirits.
Then he or she sees visiting her or him in
the room right in the hospital. Okay, whereas interminal lucidity.
(33:27):
There isn't ever any mention of visiting paranormal entities.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
That seems a little odd. I mean, if normal people
who are dying experience these visions, why wouldn't a person
who was becoming lucid prior to death also experience them.
Speaker 6 (33:46):
That's a good question, I guess the answer would be
that they already have so much on their plate just
for them to become normal and speak to people around.
Speaker 7 (33:55):
Them, so they have other priorities. They have other priorities
at the time, and one priority that obviously a dying
person will have is to kind of complete the communication
at an emotional level with people.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
With people around them, with their loved ones, you know,
very much in this world, not in the next world. Though.
There's nothing, of course that would rule that possibility out, Jeff,
I have to grant you that I just haven't come
across a case like that yet. Well.
Speaker 7 (34:24):
And of course, the typical case where you'd even want
to remark that somebody is especially lucid prior to their
death is because they've had some disease or damage to
their brain or nervous system that would make that unusual.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
In the first place exactly, so that would be assumed
before you would use that phrase.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
Because people who are having deathbed visions are all lucid.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
That's right, they're normal people. They've not had damaged brains,
and their experiences are extraordinary enough. And we talked about
that on another program. But it's not quite the same
thing as terminal lucidity. So I remember another case one
that was written up ten years ago as a matter
(35:09):
of fact in Time magazine, of all things, but apparently
it didn't really have much of an impact on people.
It certainly had an impact on me because it was
a classic case of terminal lucidity. He was a man
who had contracted cancer what is the term when he
goes all over the place metastasized metastasized, and it had
(35:32):
completely eaten away his brain. He had almost nothing left,
There was nothing to communicate with, and he again was
just a human vegetable, and his dear ones came to
say goodbye to him, just on the point of death,
and he had this incredible lucidity. The doctor who was
in charge of the case was astounded and was convinced,
(35:54):
though he's not a religious person, that the mind somehow
was able to through that sick brain, force itself out
and say goodbye to his loved ones. That was what
we used. The words he used. It forced itself through
that sick brain. It didn't just jettison it, but forced
(36:16):
its way through. I like that way of speaking it.
And it just suggests how relatively rare terminal lucidity is.
Keep in mind that somewhere between ninety to ninety five
percent of advanced Alzheimer's cases do not experience terminal lucidity.
Maybe because it's just too hard to do, who knows.
Speaker 7 (36:35):
Yeah, I can imagine that, but it surely gives one
pause to think about the consciousness and the brain is
being very distinct from me.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
It does, it does, and that of course is what
I am trying to show in my book. And it's
the last of the chapters coming out of psychical research
or paranormal research. And I think it has a statement
to make. It's very suggestive. It doesn't prove, but it's
very suggestive. And I hope that doctor Bunjohnny will be
(37:05):
able to come up with more and more evidence that
supports this conclusion. And he is, I've written him, he
is very open to this possibility that this is a
kind of evidence for the soul.
Speaker 7 (37:21):
Well, it's not so different than evidence, let's say, from
extrasensory perception or remote viewing, where a normal person in
their normal state of consciousness is able to kind of
reach out with their mind and acquire information from distant
points in space and time that would never be accessible
(37:43):
through normal sensory means.
Speaker 6 (37:45):
Yeah, well, you know, the paranormal is the paranormal, and
so what you're doing is linking these various extraordinary, unexplainable
situations together. They all suggest that our life is more
vertical than we think. You know, we're not Flanders, and
our good friends who are materialists or physicalists I refer
(38:07):
to them, at least privately, as flat Landers. They need
to verticalize their life.
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Well, I think you can still. To be honest, you
could be a physicalist like my friend Ed May, who's
can on this program and still and disagrees. He thinks
that if I come up with solid evidence for survival,
they cannot be explained by what we call living agents,
I that that would disprove his physicalism. But I think no,
(38:35):
I think that physicalism can accommodate it. If we take
a look at all of this work going on in
higher mathematics and in string theory involving higher dimensions of
space hyperspace. If we allow space to be much more
complex than we normally think of it, then we could
(38:56):
accommodate a.
Speaker 6 (38:58):
Kind of physicalism anyway.
Speaker 7 (38:59):
An afterlife, And as you've talked about yourself, the communications
from the other side say it's very similar to our
physical existence, suggests that it's kind of physical.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
It is kind of physical. I would prefer to say
that it's kind of material. They often speak of vibrations.
It's a kind of a physics of physics of the afterworld.
Vibrates at a level then how our sensors cannot accommodate,
cannot relate to. And it is not a purely spiritual environment.
(39:33):
It is a world of beauty that the sensors can
appreciate that we can walk in. All of that is
asserted by by spirits speaking through legitimate mediums. Absolutely. So, Yeah,
at some point maybe there will be a physics of
the astral.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
I think you can agree that was a pretty interesting conversation.
You want to check out doctor Jeffrey mish Love and
doctor staff Betty To, a long time explorers into the
world of the Afterlife. So let's go to our next
break and we'll come back with some more stories. You're
(40:12):
listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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(41:16):
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Speaker 9 (41:20):
This is Afterlife expert Daniel Braakley, and you're listening to
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Aeronormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain.
We have been talking about terminal lucidity. Hospice workers call
this rallying r A l l y people rally or
ken rally just before they pass. What I'd like to
do now is play an old recording for you of
(42:09):
hospice nurses. Now, these are not examples of terminal lucidity,
but they are examples of these deathbed visions, and they're
precious and I just think they'll make you feel good.
And I know for me, it just reminds me that
we go on and that loved ones are there to
(42:31):
greet us, So let's listen.
Speaker 8 (42:34):
By working with the dying, hospice nurses gain an insight
into death and the opportunity to witness the signs of
a life beyond our own.
Speaker 10 (42:44):
I had one gentlemen three months after I started working
in hospice. I thought, I can't do this anymore. This
is just too much. I'm going to get burned. Out
or it's just too stressful. And so just as I
was really trying to debate whether I was going to
leave this field or not, I had an experience that
just kind of blew me away.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
And one of the LPNs came up to me and said, mistress,
and so I just died. And so I took that.
Speaker 10 (43:12):
Information and we said, all right, we'll call a physician
and call a corner and get all the information that
we need. And I was walking down the hall and
making bad checks and sure everybody was okay, and this
one old fellow was climbing.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Out of bed.
Speaker 10 (43:23):
He was really out of pain control, and I was thinking,
you know, we need to just.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Get me settled down.
Speaker 10 (43:29):
And I walked into the room and I said, let
me help you get taken care of it. And he
said I got to get out of here. And I said,
I understand, you know, and he said I I have
to die. And I said, you know, I would probably
want to die too if I had that much pain,
and let me help you. Let me see what we
can do. He said, no, you don't understand. He said
I have to die. And I said, well, I don't
know where it came from. I said, well, you have
(43:50):
to wait till you get your own invitation. Sometimes it
just because we want to die doesn't mean we get
to die. We have to wait till it's time. Well,
that guy down there just got his invitation. He said,
I knew him from Lyman. And I said, what do
you mean And he said, well, he just shuffled by
here and I here on the back of my neck
(44:11):
stood up and he said, I thought that was a
curious term, shuffle by. And he said, I want you
to go get my son.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
He said, I knew him. I knew him from Lyman
when we were kids.
Speaker 10 (44:23):
And he said, and he just shuffled by, and he
points from his door to the window and how it
acrossed in front of his bed.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
And I thought, boy, there's a lot I don't know yet.
Speaker 11 (44:31):
I had a kid that I lost last week who
saw horses. That he saw a horse and his dream
was about two weeks before he died. He was on
this big brown horse and they were going through the
field and it was very smooth.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
It wasn't like a gallop, but they weren't flying.
Speaker 11 (44:52):
And he said that all of a sudden they kind
of jumped over a barrier and when they landed. They
landed in a river bank that had over load its beds,
and it stopped. The horse stopped and turned sideways, waiting
for this kid to tell him which way to go,
whether to go into the woods or out of the woods.
And I asked him which way he chose, and he said, well,
we went out, And I said, what do you think
(45:14):
would have happened if you had gone into the woods.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
He said, I think I'd have been gone.
Speaker 11 (45:17):
And I told him I thought he would too, And
I told him that that horse would probably come back
for him when it was time for him to go,
That horse would be the one to come back. Well,
that afternoon, his mom was washing dishes and the horse
came and she went to talk to him, and she
asked David if his horse was there, and he said yes,
(45:39):
and she said, I think he's probably here to get you.
And she said I think so too, And within two
hours he had gone.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
He had died on his horse.
Speaker 12 (45:49):
You feel a presence, you feel something is in the room.
You know that there's something there. And one time there
was this man and he was really really close to death,
and he was very very weak, and and he looked
up and he he was looking at something, and he
looked very, very scared, and the nurse said to him,
(46:10):
it's okay. They're there to help you. There, they won't
hurt you. And and he put his hand up and
and he had his hand up like somebody was holding it.
And he did this for a few minutes. And there
is no way this man had the strength to hold
his hand up by himself.
Speaker 10 (46:30):
Uh. And he died just a few minutes later too.
So there's something. I had one really neat fellow that
we were taking to the hospice unit and he was
really close to dying, and his his son was nearby.
(46:52):
And this poor guy went through an incredible bath from
the nurse, I mean, and he didn't move it all.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Didn't even blink and eye, so.
Speaker 10 (46:58):
We would say he was an unresponsive And as we
were walking down the hall, pushing his bed down the hall,
he opened his eyes and he looked straight up and
his little toothless mouth and he went and waved and
then just smiled in close size, and five minutes later
he was gone. I don't know who's waving at, but
that's not uncommon.
Speaker 6 (47:20):
As death approaches, patients may have visions of angels or
see tunnels of white light. Other people receive angelic comfort
from someone they already know.
Speaker 10 (47:32):
Patients who are closer to their dying time will see
those who have already died. Oftentimes they'll talk about dead
grandparents sitting at their bedside, brothers who've died before. I'm
not so certain that we just see spirits running around.
I don't really believe that, and I've never heard anything
(47:52):
that scary. But I have heard of a lot of
patients who are very afraid of dying talk about seeing
a father in law kitchen, and.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
That would scare me out of my mind.
Speaker 10 (48:03):
But they're not afraid, and it really made me realize
about how they.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
They are just sort of drifting to the other side.
They had one foot here and one foot.
Speaker 10 (48:13):
Somewhere else, and a patient who's very frightened. We'll tell
you that, and yet for some reason it doesn't bother them.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
That bothered me.
Speaker 12 (48:22):
But Mary was a fifty two year old woman. She
had little Gary's disease and it was getting pretty bad.
She was pretty close to death and the muscles in
her throat were closing up. They weren't working very well,
and she had this fear that she was going to drown,
which is essentially was a real possibility for her, and
(48:46):
one of her last wish was that her mother not
be told. Her mother was ninety years old, and her mother,
she liked to be called Grahama Rose, and she just said,
this is too hard for a mother to go through,
to watch a child die, and especially the way I'm
I don't want my mother to know.
Speaker 10 (49:02):
Now.
Speaker 12 (49:02):
The family was in conflict with this, but it was
her last wish, so what could they do? And then
the story, as Gramma Rose tells me, is she lived
in Texas and one night she went to bed. She
was getting into bed and she saw her husband standing there,
(49:24):
and her husband had been dead for twenty years, but
she said that he was as real to her as
I am to you. And he said, Rose, I've come
to take Mary home. And at that point, Grandma Rose
she just started to scream and said, no, no, please,
let me go back and hold my baby one more time.
(49:45):
Don't take her until I've gone and I've held her
and I've said goodbye and I've kissed her.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
Please don't do that.
Speaker 12 (49:52):
And so he just kind of smiled and faded away,
and she knew at that point that he would allow that.
So she got a the next plane. She came to
Denver and for three days she stayed with her daughter,
and she told her stories, and she combed her hair,
and she gave her bath, and she was holding her
(50:13):
daughter when she died, and I was there, and she
just looked at me and she said, you know, I
brought her into the world, and it's only right that
I'm with her when she goes out.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
And it would have never happened.
Speaker 12 (50:28):
If Mary's husband would have come come to her and
told her that he was taking her home.
Speaker 10 (50:35):
Like one person said to me, it's easy for you
to say, it's going to be peaceful. You're not going
to die, you know, and you know you're right. All
I know is what I see, And all I know
is that somewhere along the line, you're not going to
be afraid anymore. Somewhere in that last those last hours,
it's going to go away and somebody will throw you
(50:56):
a lifeline.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
I'm sitting here right now thinking just how special this is.
We really do go on and loved ones come to
greet us or animals. I want to read to you now,
just a couple of quick things. This lady says, My
mom looked out the window of her hospice room and
said she saw all of the dogs she ever had
(51:17):
in her entire life, from the time she was a
child playing outside in the courtyard. She looked so happy
and she smiled, and then she passed away. And another
my father passed away two weeks ago. He was ninety
seven and in hospice. He had basically been non responsive
(51:38):
for weeks. Two days before he died, he had about
six lucid hours. He woke up continually, He asked for food,
asked for a bowl of ice cream, and wanted to
drink his nightly martini, which he did. He was laughing
and joking and very much himself, and then two days
(52:00):
later he died. I know you may be a new listener,
or you may be a long time listener, But for
the past one hundred and forty plus episodes, I've been
trying to give you my all. Not each one of
us is going to witness a loved one have one
of these experiences, but through all these hours of episodes
(52:20):
to give you reasons to believe and have faith that
you are an immortal soul having a human experience. You
are so much bigger and wiser than you could ever imagine.
We are trapped by this little voice in our head
that tries to convince us that we are just human.
But that's not true. We are so much bigger. There's
(52:43):
more to life than meets the eye, and more to
you than you know. Right now, you are surrounded by
invisible cheerleaders who know how hard it is to live
a human life. They will be there when it's your time,
but not too soon, to help you across the veil
to probably the biggest standing ovation that you've crossed over
(53:07):
and completed this life. Make the most of it while
you're here. There's things that we can't do over there.
There are things that we can learn over here that
really add depth to our soul. So take up every
experience you can with that reminder. Our home base is
we Don't Die dot com. Please come visit me on
(53:30):
one of our Sunday gatherings, or take a course, or
just check out other past episodes, or join our Facebook group.
I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you for listening to Shades of
the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am
Paranormal podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the
supernatural and the unexplained. Get ready now for Shades of
the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host are thoughts
and opinions only and do not necessarily reflect those of iHeartMedia,
iHeartRadio to Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their
sponsors and associates. You are encouraged to do the proper
amount of research yourself, depending on the subject matter and
your needs.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been
on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know
that our loved ones have survived physical debt, and so
will we Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. There is
(01:06):
a term that I have never used before on Shades
of the Afterlife? Can you believe it? Over one hundred
and forty episodes, this term has been appearing quite a
bit in conversations and Internet searches. All of a sudden,
there it is. The term is terminal lucidity. I know
(01:29):
that we've spoken about just before someone passes or the
weeks they can be alert, see loved ones that are
right there in the room with them, and they appear
just like the real people, the doctors, the nurses and families.
But there's a closely related phenomena, and that's this terminal lucidity,
(01:50):
which may involve loved ones coming to visit or it
may not. I remember the very first story I had
ever heard heard of this, and I just kind of
put it in the realm of deathbed visions. I had
a wonderful conversation with a hospice chaplain named Steve Kearney,
(02:11):
who I knew when I was cooking for the race teams.
He knew I was interested in life after death, and
he wanted to tell me the extraordinary story of when
his father died. He told me that his father had
been in a coma for months, and shortly before his death,
he became alive, awake, swung his legs over the bed,
(02:35):
and of course everybody's trying to stop him because he's
hooked up to all these tubes and he's looking as
if looking into heaven, and he's saying it's so beautiful there,
And they said, Dad, what do you see? And he
started telling them people that he saw that were deceased,
and then he said he saw a certain woman who
(02:56):
had died during this man's coma. So he was never
told that this lady died, but he could see her there.
What else can you see? And he felt like he
heard Jesus saying that he only has a short time
to live to do the things he wants to do
because he wouldn't have his body too much longer. What
(03:18):
did he want? He wanted an apple pie, he wanted
his family together watching a football game, and he wanted
a chocolate milkshake. With having all of those, the man
was crystal clear lucid alive, giving the family the feeling
like he was back, and just a couple of nights later,
(03:40):
he passed away. So terminal lucidity is when someone doesn't
have proper brain or body function and comes alive shortly
before death. The more I researched this today, the more
hospice nurses and doctors and people putting comments under YouTube
(04:02):
videos have experienced this with their loved ones. There have
been cases of Alzheimer's patients who really have lost use
of their mind, who haven't spoke, and again they rally.
They come back to life for just a very short time,
(04:23):
but can have a conversation for an hour or two
that makes sense. That's talking about life. They have memories. Now,
how is this possible in a brain with very little
brain function? There's something extraordinary going on here. This article
comes from the Scientific American magazine, written by Jesse Baring.
(04:47):
When my mother died in early two thousand, we had
a final farewell that some researchers might consider paranormal. At
the time, it did strike me as remarkable, and after
all that these years, I still can't talk about it
without getting emotional. The night before mom died at the
age of fifty four after a long battle with ovarian cancer,
(05:10):
I was sleeping in my mother's bedroom alongside her. The
truth was that I'd already grieved her loss a few
days earlier, from the moment she lapsed into what the
hospice nurses had assured us was an irretrievable coma. So
at this point, waiting for her body to expire as
a physical machine wasn't as difficult as the loss of
(05:34):
her beforehand, which is when I'd completely broken down. It
had all happened so quickly, and I suppose, being young
and in denial about how imminent her death really was,
I hadn't actually gotten around to telling her how very
grateful I was to have had her as my mom
and just how much I loved her. But then around
(05:57):
three a m. I awoke to find her reaching her
hand out to me, and she seemed very much aware.
She was too weak to talk, but her eyes communicated all.
We spent about five minutes holding hands, me sobbing, kissing
her cheeks, telling her everything I'd meant to say before
(06:19):
but hadn't. Soon she closed her eyes again, this time
for good. She died the next day. I didn't quite
see the experience as supernatural when it happened, and I'm
not sure I do today either, But I also didn't
have a name for the experience then. In fact, one
didn't even exist. It does now, called terminal lucidity. The
(06:43):
term was coined by German biologist Michael Nahm. He was
the first to review in an article on the curious
subject of cognitively impaired people becoming clear headed as their
death approaches. According to him, and of terminal lucidity. They
have been recorded for millennia, from accounts by classical scholars
(07:06):
such as Hippocrates and Cicero to the nineteenth century medical
luminaries like Benjamin Rush, who wrote the first American paper
on mental illness. Here's Hownam defined terminal lucidity in that
original article the reemergence of normal or unusually enhanced mental
(07:29):
abilities in dull, unconscious, or mentally ill patients shortly before
their death, including considerable elevation of mood and spiritual affectation,
or the ability to speak in a previously unusual, spiritualized
and elated manner. The author characterizes terminal lucidity as one
(07:55):
of the more common but lesser known end of life experiences.
On his list include deathbed visions, apparitions, near death or
out of body experiences, telepathic impressions, and so on. But
terminal lucidity is a vague concept, needless to say. First
(08:15):
of all, what exactly should qualify as the time period
shortly before death minutes, hours, days, maybe months. One man
who'd been completely catatonic for nearly two decades became almost
normal and lucid just before he passed away. And the
second subtype of terminal lucidity. The author tells us full
(08:40):
mental clarity can appear quite abruptly and unexpectedly, just hours
or days before death, and one study, seventy percent of
caretakers in a British nursing home said they'd personally observed
people with dementia becoming lucid shortly before the deaths. A
(09:01):
ninety two year old woman with advanced Alzheimer's disease, for instance,
hadn't recognized her family for years, but the day before
her death, she had a pleasantly bright conversation with them,
recalling everyone's name. She was even aware of her own
age and where she'd been living all of this time.
(09:24):
Such incidents happened regularly. I'm going to pause reading this
article right now because I found an excellent conversation between
two researchers of life after death talking about terminal lucidity.
So after the break we will hear from them. I'd
(09:46):
like to read you one more example. This woman says,
in the mid nineties, with her eyesight rapidly going, in
her memory diminishing, my maternal grandmother, Kitty Lewis, moved into
a care home after suffering a series of mini strokes
and being diagnosed with vascular dementia. From there, her behavior
(10:09):
began to change. This prim proper, polite and warm woman
for decades, a stalwart of whichever community she was in,
had her personality twisted and transformed by dementia, and she
became paranoid, aggressive, and verbally abusive. Her short term memory
(10:31):
was shot and the rest of it was patchy. She
would rarely know who we were as her family, and
in the last couple of years she was just angry, depressed,
and confused, and she didn't want to see people. We
visited anyway, sitting with her while she wanted to die.
(10:51):
Then in October, she was admitted into the hospital having
collapsed with a urinary track infection. For a week she
was barely conscious, but on the Sunday when my parents,
cousin and I visited, she was sitting up in bed
smiling as we walked in. For the next two hours,
she laughed and joked, completely cognitive coherent, lucid. A lifetime
(11:18):
of memory had returned, and we took full advantage of
it as she regaled us with escapades from her past.
My mom, who knew many of them, quietly verified everything
she said. Her funny, eloquent, vibrant mother had returned. It
all came back to her in one rush. It was
(11:41):
like a bolt of lightning. The clouds cleared. After we
left that afternoon. My grandma slipped into a semi conscious state,
soon not knowing who my mother was, and died within days.
We live in what I call a human energy vehicle.
We are the driver of the car. The car is
(12:03):
our body. The driver is us, our soul, and this
energy vehicle. Our body is so intelligent we don't need
to tell it when to breathe. We get a little
signal when it's time to sleep, when it's time to eat.
Do we know that there are trillions of cells in
our body, each doing different things, and how our heart,
(12:24):
our liver, our kidneys, all of that functions without us
having to be in control. I think for the dying process,
whether it's terminal lucidity, or whether it's seeing our loved
ones appear helping us cross that finish line, that the
body and the mind and our consciousness has a plan
(12:48):
for us. It's all regulated, and it's all controlled, and
it's all just one more way of saying, you are
a miraculous being, and you do not die, So let's
go to the break and we'll be back. You're listening
to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network.
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Speaker 4 (14:56):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
and we are talking about terminal lucidity. Here's a name
that you should know, an amazing author that I really
respect is Jeffrey Mishlov. He's the author of such books
as New Thinking Aloud, is Their Life after Death and
(15:17):
the Roots of Consciousness. He has fascinating conversations and really
digs about life after death, consciousness, and so much more.
In fact, if you go to YouTube, just look up
New Thinking Aloud with Jeffrey Mishlov. But here's another good
(15:38):
reason to listen to him. You may have heard of
the Bigelow Institute's recent contest giving away a total of
a million dollars for proof of the afterlife that our
consciousness survives death. Jeffrey Mishlov is the first place winner
and The title of his entry is called Beyond on
(16:00):
the Brain, The Survival of Human Consciousness after Permanent bodily Death.
You can read it at Bigelowinstitute dot org. So what
we're going to do is evesdrop on a conversation he
had with doctor Stafford Betty on this topic of terminal lucidity. Now.
(16:20):
Doctor Betty is a professor of religious studies at California
State University and is the author of the books The
Afterlife Unveiled. What the Dead are telling us about their world?
When did you ever become less by dying? Afterlife? The evidence?
Speaker 7 (16:40):
And more so, let's listen terminal lucidity. It's you know,
I think it's only been maybe in the last ten
years that I've even heard the term.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
That's right. It wasn't invented until twenty nine, two thousand
and nine. Can you believe that? And yet there have
been cases of terminal lucidity and the literature for the
last one hundred and twenty years. Yes, but there had
never been a term used to baptize the phenomena.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
Well know, I suppose many people are just normally very
lucid as they get ill and as they die. It's
not unusual for a person to be lucid unless they've
suffered from some sort of a brain injury.
Speaker 6 (17:24):
Exactly, or illness. And that's what terminal lucidity is looking at.
It's particularly looking at Alzheimer's patients. Take a woman who
has lost all ability to communicate with her visitors, with
her loved ones, and they come. She doesn't recognize them,
she doesn't know their name, she doesn't speak, she doesn't
(17:44):
seem to be even aware of her world. She's just
what we sometimes call a human vegetable.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Right.
Speaker 6 (17:51):
And then, for some strange reason, just before she dies
and her loved ones have come to gather around the
she irrupts into her old personality. Her brain is all
but totally destroyed, but suddenly she is able to communicate
with her loved ones. She speaks, she wonders about her
(18:14):
grandchildren and how they're doing. She knows everyone's names. She's
completely herself. This is an example of terminal lucidity, and
it happens. According to doctor Alexander Baianni, who's looked into
this more than anyone else alive, it happens in about
five to ten percent of Alzheimer's cases.
Speaker 7 (18:35):
Well, I can say it happened to my mother who
tell me about that. My mother had Alzheimer's. She died
six years ago at the age of ninety, and she
was somewhat coherent before her death. I mean, her memory
was very, very bad, but she always recognized me. And
(18:57):
my wife Janelle was with her at this time, and
she reports that my mother just sort of sat up
in the bed and they had a lengthy conversation for
over two hours in which my mother was her old self,
like at least more than ten years earlier, before this
(19:20):
illness had destroyed so much of her memory. And they
talked about, you know, her marriage and her children, how
she was progressing with her disease. And she had had
a boyfriend who had died a year earlier, and she
was her Alzheimer's had progressed so badly that she kept
(19:41):
asking for him all the time the whole year. She
just could not digest the fact that he had died.
I see, But all of that was clear. She was
completely lucid.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
Right, that's terminal lucidity. How long did it take before
she died after that experience? Do you remember less than
a week?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Okay, there it is right. It usually runs between a
couple of weeks and just a matter of minutes. Yeah,
there it is now. Terminal lucidity is not something that
is confined to Alzheimer's. Anyone who has had a seriously
damaged brain or a brain that's been eaten away by
maybe cancer, is capable. Unpredictably, we never know who they're
(20:23):
going to.
Speaker 7 (20:23):
My wife had another similar experience with a client of
hers who a psychotherapy client who she had worked with
for many, many years, who was a very serious alcoholic
and had all sorts of emotional and physical problems and
attachments due to the alcoholism. And she died in childbirth.
(20:49):
It was very tragic circumstances. But shortly before her death,
I think it was the same day in fact, or
maybe the day before, she like my mother, sat up
in the hospital bed and they had a lengthy conversation.
And the interesting thing is that she seemed emotionally for
(21:10):
the first time, totally clear, totally objective about herself, able
to look at her own life and understand things that
had eluded her in psychotherapy for years and years. And
her greatest wish at that time is, oh, I wish
everybody could see me like this. Yeah, yeah, she knew
that this was different. Yeah, that's another example. Let me
(21:33):
go back into the past and dretch up a couple
of famous cases. A biologist, professor.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
The University of Freiburg in Germany, Michael Naum, is responsible
for bringing all of this stuff that we now call
terminal lucidity out of the dark and wrote a long
article for the Journal of Near Death Studies on famous
cases that he now recognized as being what we now
call termal lucidity. And the most famous case is that
(22:05):
of a girl whose name was Kita k a t
h e. Kita, a German girl, and she had the
absolutely she had. She had been born profoundly disabled, never
capable of as she grew older, of making any more
(22:27):
movement than just sort of spasmodic jerk. She had no
control over her body. She never learned a single word,
never spoken a word. Just a tragic case of someone
whom you would say it was better had she not
been born profound, profoundly retarded, and she had been hospitalized
her entire life. Okay, just left there basically the rod
(22:48):
away and I would say, fortunately, she contracted the disease
of tuberculosis as a teenager, and she was close to death,
and the most astonishing thing happened just before she died.
She became a lucid person, speaking German, singing Christian hymns.
(23:10):
And can you imagine the amazement of all of the staff,
somebody who had never spoken, never spoken a word.
Speaker 7 (23:18):
And I know this occurs that a nephew who had
the same condition born without a corpus colosive brain severely damaged.
Speaker 6 (23:26):
Unbelievable. Anyway, there she was, and she was a transformed person.
They spoke about how her face glowed with this kind
of spirituality, and up to this point it to have
been nothing but just, you know, kind of animalistic. The
only kind of sounds she ever made were animalistic sounds.
Absolute transformation. There's no way to explain via conventional brain
(23:50):
science how that could have happened. And that's true of
Alzheimer's patients. You know, their brains have been eaten up
to such an extent that there is no way to explain.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
These lucides generally considered irreversible.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
It's irreversible, it is, And this leads a number of
us to a very different kind of conclusion. The reason
these loose lucid moments happen is not because there's been
a sudden creation of billions of new brain cells in
this brain. It's that the being, the consciousness, the person
(24:27):
who really is, has managed to loosen herself or himself
from the brain. The soul in other words, if you
want to call it, that has managed to loosen itself
from the brain, and that has made it possible for
this remarkable transcendence.
Speaker 7 (24:44):
And loosen from the brain, but still in control of
the vocal cords.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
Somehow. It's very mysterious how this all works. Doctor Bognanni
uses a wonderful analogy. He talks of the consciousness or
the soul, if you will, spiritual self as being like
the sun in eclipse, and the moon is causing the eclipse.
(25:09):
If you move, and the moon, of course is like
the sick brain, you remove the moon or the sick brain,
then the sun shines. There was never anything wrong with
the sun in the first place. It's just that it
couldn't communicate because it was obstructed by the sick brain.
Speaker 7 (25:24):
So you, in a sense regard the cases of terminal
lucidity as evidence for the notion that the spirit or
mind or psyche or consciousness can operate independently of the
soma or the body, or the nervous system and brain.
Speaker 6 (25:43):
That's exactly right. It's sort of a duellist, exactly so.
And it is one of the nine types of evidence
for survival of death that I go through in my book.
It's I think it's the weakest of them, but I
think still it's very suggestive. And it becomes more suggestive
(26:04):
when you look at the research done by a doctor
in Britain named John Lorber. He was the head of
a hospital, or I guess it was a hospital. Six
hundred hydrocephalics were kept. Okay, and these are people with
big heads, water on the brain, yes, And in many
(26:27):
of these cases the brain has almost completely disappeared. The
fluid has basically taken the place of the brain.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
I know you're on the edge of your seat waiting
for him to finish the story, but we have to
take a break, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio
in Coast to Coast a and Paranormal Podcast Network. The
(27:04):
Internet is an extraordinary resource that links our children to
a world of information, experiences, and ideas. It can also
expose them to risk. Teach your children the basic safety
rules of the virtual world. Our children are everything, Do
everything for them. Hi, this is Wuija board expert Karen A.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
Dolman, and you're listening to the.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
Hi, this is ufologist Kevin Randall, and you're listening to
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain
and we are eavesdropping on a very interesting conversation between
doctors Stafford Betty and Jeffrey mish Love on something called
terminal lucidity. Just before someone passes away, even if they
have had no brain function, can come back to life.
(28:34):
Let's continue his story.
Speaker 6 (28:36):
A doctor in Britain named John Lorber. He was the
head of a hospital. Six hundred hydrocephalics were kept okay,
and these are people with big heads water on the brain.
Many of these cases, the brain has almost completely disappeared.
The fluid has basically taken the place of the brain.
(29:02):
In thirty out of six hundred cases. The IQ's of
these people with very little brain left is one hundred
or more. That's what he was able to determine. In
one case, his star pupil had only five percent of
a normal brain an IQ of one hundred and twenty
(29:24):
six was functioning as a normal, intelligent person, and that
leads him to believe, and it leads me to believe
that the question is the brain really necessary should be asked,
because in a few cases it obviously isn't necessary, and
that seems to be supportive of the thesis that who
(29:49):
we really are is not brain dependent.
Speaker 7 (29:51):
Well, there are a number of other cases in the
literature of people who suffered from major brain damage. I
remember there's a famous case from the nineteenth century of
a rail road worker who had a railroad spike through
his head exactly so I was able to function normally
exactly so.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Right. There's another case that doctor professor nam on Earth
of a woman who had been in an asylum for
eight years and she had some kind of brain damage.
It was never said what was the cause of it,
but she had turned into an appalling human being. The
(30:34):
only thing that ever came out of her mouth while
in this asylum for eight years were horrible curses. And
she also managed to develop a particular skill of spitting
very accurately on the shoes of the priest or the
doctor who came to visit her. She was uncannily accurate
with her spinning, all right, and so shortly before she died,
(30:59):
she hadn't come plea transformation of character and personality. She
remembered all of those episodes of spitting. She remembered all
of those cursings, and she was profoundly sorry for them. Yes,
she felt that she was not in control. She was
aware of what was happening, but she didn't feel that
she was in control. It just suggests the number of
(31:19):
ways that terminal lucidity can manifest itself, and it did
in this instance in a very different way.
Speaker 7 (31:26):
Well, when we think about brain function, right, one of
the intriguing things to me, for example, is parrots. Parrots
are animals that are highly intelligent. They can speak and
sometimes acquire a large vocabulary, and their speech is often
(31:46):
in context it makes sense. And yet they have tiny,
tiny little brains.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
It's true, that's true. Maybe even the dinosaurs are smarter
than we give them credit for. They also had tiny friends.
Speaker 7 (32:00):
In an era of computer technology where the processors are
getting smaller and smaller all the time, and yet more
and more powerful.
Speaker 6 (32:08):
I know.
Speaker 7 (32:08):
It's so so the size of the brain may not
be as determinative as was once thought. Where we do
all of these ratios between the brain mass and the body.
Speaker 6 (32:19):
Weight exactly, So that does appear to be the case
when we look at Labbres research, that really does appear
to be the case. Only in five percent of the cases.
Let that be said. You know, the other ninety five
percent were pretty much lost in their hydrocephalic fluid and
they were not able to function. But this five percent
(32:40):
were able to function curiously for reasons we can't understand,
with very damaged brains or very tiny brains. Who knows why.
Speaker 7 (32:49):
Now. Earlier, you and I were having a conversation about
the relationship between terminal lucidity and deathbed visions. Oh okay,
can you pointed out to me you thought these are
very different.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
Yeah, And we had a little disagreement on this. I
would say this that you know, with in deathbed visions,
the patient, the dying person is talking lucidly to spirits.
Then he or she sees visiting her or him in
the room right in the hospital. Okay, whereas interminal lucidity.
(33:27):
There isn't ever any mention of visiting paranormal entities.
Speaker 7 (33:32):
That seems a little odd. I mean, if normal people
who are dying experience these visions, why wouldn't a person
who was becoming lucid prior to death also experience them.
Speaker 6 (33:46):
That's a good question, I guess the answer would be
that they already have so much on their plate just
for them to become normal and speak to people around.
Speaker 7 (33:55):
Them, so they have other priorities. They have other priorities
at the time, and one priority that obviously a dying
person will have is to kind of complete the communication
at an emotional level with people.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
With people around them, with their loved ones, you know,
very much in this world, not in the next world. Though.
There's nothing, of course that would rule that possibility out, Jeff,
I have to grant you that I just haven't come
across a case like that yet. Well.
Speaker 7 (34:24):
And of course, the typical case where you'd even want
to remark that somebody is especially lucid prior to their
death is because they've had some disease or damage to
their brain or nervous system that would make that unusual.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
In the first place exactly, so that would be assumed
before you would use that phrase.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
Because people who are having deathbed visions are all lucid.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
That's right, they're normal people. They've not had damaged brains,
and their experiences are extraordinary enough. And we talked about
that on another program. But it's not quite the same
thing as terminal lucidity. So I remember another case one
that was written up ten years ago as a matter
(35:09):
of fact in Time magazine, of all things, but apparently
it didn't really have much of an impact on people.
It certainly had an impact on me because it was
a classic case of terminal lucidity. He was a man
who had contracted cancer what is the term when he
goes all over the place metastasized metastasized, and it had
(35:32):
completely eaten away his brain. He had almost nothing left,
There was nothing to communicate with, and he again was
just a human vegetable, and his dear ones came to
say goodbye to him, just on the point of death,
and he had this incredible lucidity. The doctor who was
in charge of the case was astounded and was convinced,
(35:54):
though he's not a religious person, that the mind somehow
was able to through that sick brain, force itself out
and say goodbye to his loved ones. That was what
we used. The words he used. It forced itself through
that sick brain. It didn't just jettison it, but forced
(36:16):
its way through. I like that way of speaking it.
And it just suggests how relatively rare terminal lucidity is.
Keep in mind that somewhere between ninety to ninety five
percent of advanced Alzheimer's cases do not experience terminal lucidity.
Maybe because it's just too hard to do, who knows.
Speaker 7 (36:35):
Yeah, I can imagine that, but it surely gives one
pause to think about the consciousness and the brain is
being very distinct from me.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
It does, it does, and that of course is what
I am trying to show in my book. And it's
the last of the chapters coming out of psychical research
or paranormal research. And I think it has a statement
to make. It's very suggestive. It doesn't prove, but it's
very suggestive. And I hope that doctor Bunjohnny will be
(37:05):
able to come up with more and more evidence that
supports this conclusion. And he is, I've written him, he
is very open to this possibility that this is a
kind of evidence for the soul.
Speaker 7 (37:21):
Well, it's not so different than evidence, let's say, from
extrasensory perception or remote viewing, where a normal person in
their normal state of consciousness is able to kind of
reach out with their mind and acquire information from distant
points in space and time that would never be accessible
(37:43):
through normal sensory means.
Speaker 6 (37:45):
Yeah, well, you know, the paranormal is the paranormal, and
so what you're doing is linking these various extraordinary, unexplainable
situations together. They all suggest that our life is more
vertical than we think. You know, we're not Flanders, and
our good friends who are materialists or physicalists I refer
(38:07):
to them, at least privately, as flat Landers. They need
to verticalize their life.
Speaker 7 (38:12):
Well, I think you can still. To be honest, you
could be a physicalist like my friend Ed May, who's
can on this program and still and disagrees. He thinks
that if I come up with solid evidence for survival,
they cannot be explained by what we call living agents,
I that that would disprove his physicalism. But I think no,
(38:35):
I think that physicalism can accommodate it. If we take
a look at all of this work going on in
higher mathematics and in string theory involving higher dimensions of
space hyperspace. If we allow space to be much more
complex than we normally think of it, then we could
(38:56):
accommodate a.
Speaker 6 (38:58):
Kind of physicalism anyway.
Speaker 7 (38:59):
An afterlife, And as you've talked about yourself, the communications
from the other side say it's very similar to our
physical existence, suggests that it's kind of physical.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
It is kind of physical. I would prefer to say
that it's kind of material. They often speak of vibrations.
It's a kind of a physics of physics of the afterworld.
Vibrates at a level then how our sensors cannot accommodate,
cannot relate to. And it is not a purely spiritual environment.
(39:33):
It is a world of beauty that the sensors can
appreciate that we can walk in. All of that is
asserted by by spirits speaking through legitimate mediums. Absolutely. So, Yeah,
at some point maybe there will be a physics of
the astral.
Speaker 4 (39:50):
I think you can agree that was a pretty interesting conversation.
You want to check out doctor Jeffrey mish Love and
doctor staff Betty To, a long time explorers into the
world of the Afterlife. So let's go to our next
break and we'll come back with some more stories. You're
(40:12):
listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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This is Afterlife expert Daniel Braakley, and you're listening to
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Speaker 4 (41:44):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain.
We have been talking about terminal lucidity. Hospice workers call
this rallying r A l l y people rally or
ken rally just before they pass. What I'd like to
do now is play an old recording for you of
(42:09):
hospice nurses. Now, these are not examples of terminal lucidity,
but they are examples of these deathbed visions, and they're
precious and I just think they'll make you feel good.
And I know for me, it just reminds me that
we go on and that loved ones are there to
(42:31):
greet us, So let's listen.
Speaker 8 (42:34):
By working with the dying, hospice nurses gain an insight
into death and the opportunity to witness the signs of
a life beyond our own.
Speaker 10 (42:44):
I had one gentlemen three months after I started working
in hospice. I thought, I can't do this anymore. This
is just too much. I'm going to get burned. Out
or it's just too stressful. And so just as I
was really trying to debate whether I was going to
leave this field or not, I had an experience that
just kind of blew me away.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
And one of the LPNs came up to me and said, mistress,
and so I just died. And so I took that.
Speaker 10 (43:12):
Information and we said, all right, we'll call a physician
and call a corner and get all the information that
we need. And I was walking down the hall and
making bad checks and sure everybody was okay, and this
one old fellow was climbing.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Out of bed.
Speaker 10 (43:23):
He was really out of pain control, and I was thinking,
you know, we need to just.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Get me settled down.
Speaker 10 (43:29):
And I walked into the room and I said, let
me help you get taken care of it. And he
said I got to get out of here. And I said,
I understand, you know, and he said I I have
to die. And I said, you know, I would probably
want to die too if I had that much pain,
and let me help you. Let me see what we
can do. He said, no, you don't understand. He said
I have to die. And I said, well, I don't
know where it came from. I said, well, you have
(43:50):
to wait till you get your own invitation. Sometimes it
just because we want to die doesn't mean we get
to die. We have to wait till it's time. Well,
that guy down there just got his invitation. He said,
I knew him from Lyman. And I said, what do
you mean And he said, well, he just shuffled by
here and I here on the back of my neck
(44:11):
stood up and he said, I thought that was a
curious term, shuffle by. And he said, I want you
to go get my son.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
He said, I knew him. I knew him from Lyman
when we were kids.
Speaker 10 (44:23):
And he said, and he just shuffled by, and he
points from his door to the window and how it
acrossed in front of his bed.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
And I thought, boy, there's a lot I don't know yet.
Speaker 11 (44:31):
I had a kid that I lost last week who
saw horses. That he saw a horse and his dream
was about two weeks before he died. He was on
this big brown horse and they were going through the
field and it was very smooth.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
It wasn't like a gallop, but they weren't flying.
Speaker 11 (44:52):
And he said that all of a sudden they kind
of jumped over a barrier and when they landed. They
landed in a river bank that had over load its beds,
and it stopped. The horse stopped and turned sideways, waiting
for this kid to tell him which way to go,
whether to go into the woods or out of the woods.
And I asked him which way he chose, and he said, well,
we went out, And I said, what do you think
(45:14):
would have happened if you had gone into the woods.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
He said, I think I'd have been gone.
Speaker 11 (45:17):
And I told him I thought he would too, And
I told him that that horse would probably come back
for him when it was time for him to go,
That horse would be the one to come back. Well,
that afternoon, his mom was washing dishes and the horse
came and she went to talk to him, and she
asked David if his horse was there, and he said yes,
(45:39):
and she said, I think he's probably here to get you.
And she said I think so too, And within two
hours he had gone.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
He had died on his horse.
Speaker 12 (45:49):
You feel a presence, you feel something is in the room.
You know that there's something there. And one time there
was this man and he was really really close to death,
and he was very very weak, and and he looked
up and he he was looking at something, and he
looked very, very scared, and the nurse said to him,
(46:10):
it's okay. They're there to help you. There, they won't
hurt you. And and he put his hand up and
and he had his hand up like somebody was holding it.
And he did this for a few minutes. And there
is no way this man had the strength to hold
his hand up by himself.
Speaker 10 (46:30):
Uh. And he died just a few minutes later too.
So there's something. I had one really neat fellow that
we were taking to the hospice unit and he was
really close to dying, and his his son was nearby.
(46:52):
And this poor guy went through an incredible bath from
the nurse, I mean, and he didn't move it all.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Didn't even blink and eye, so.
Speaker 10 (46:58):
We would say he was an unresponsive And as we
were walking down the hall, pushing his bed down the hall,
he opened his eyes and he looked straight up and
his little toothless mouth and he went and waved and
then just smiled in close size, and five minutes later
he was gone. I don't know who's waving at, but
that's not uncommon.
Speaker 6 (47:20):
As death approaches, patients may have visions of angels or
see tunnels of white light. Other people receive angelic comfort
from someone they already know.
Speaker 10 (47:32):
Patients who are closer to their dying time will see
those who have already died. Oftentimes they'll talk about dead
grandparents sitting at their bedside, brothers who've died before. I'm
not so certain that we just see spirits running around.
I don't really believe that, and I've never heard anything
(47:52):
that scary. But I have heard of a lot of
patients who are very afraid of dying talk about seeing
a father in law kitchen, and.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
That would scare me out of my mind.
Speaker 10 (48:03):
But they're not afraid, and it really made me realize
about how they.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
They are just sort of drifting to the other side.
They had one foot here and one foot.
Speaker 10 (48:13):
Somewhere else, and a patient who's very frightened. We'll tell
you that, and yet for some reason it doesn't bother them.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
That bothered me.
Speaker 12 (48:22):
But Mary was a fifty two year old woman. She
had little Gary's disease and it was getting pretty bad.
She was pretty close to death and the muscles in
her throat were closing up. They weren't working very well,
and she had this fear that she was going to drown,
which is essentially was a real possibility for her, and
(48:46):
one of her last wish was that her mother not
be told. Her mother was ninety years old, and her mother,
she liked to be called Grahama Rose, and she just said,
this is too hard for a mother to go through,
to watch a child die, and especially the way I'm
I don't want my mother to know.
Speaker 10 (49:02):
Now.
Speaker 12 (49:02):
The family was in conflict with this, but it was
her last wish, so what could they do? And then
the story, as Gramma Rose tells me, is she lived
in Texas and one night she went to bed. She
was getting into bed and she saw her husband standing there,
(49:24):
and her husband had been dead for twenty years, but
she said that he was as real to her as
I am to you. And he said, Rose, I've come
to take Mary home. And at that point, Grandma Rose
she just started to scream and said, no, no, please,
let me go back and hold my baby one more time.
(49:45):
Don't take her until I've gone and I've held her
and I've said goodbye and I've kissed her.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
Please don't do that.
Speaker 12 (49:52):
And so he just kind of smiled and faded away,
and she knew at that point that he would allow that.
So she got a the next plane. She came to
Denver and for three days she stayed with her daughter,
and she told her stories, and she combed her hair,
and she gave her bath, and she was holding her
(50:13):
daughter when she died, and I was there, and she
just looked at me and she said, you know, I
brought her into the world, and it's only right that
I'm with her when she goes out.
Speaker 3 (50:24):
And it would have never happened.
Speaker 12 (50:28):
If Mary's husband would have come come to her and
told her that he was taking her home.
Speaker 10 (50:35):
Like one person said to me, it's easy for you
to say, it's going to be peaceful. You're not going
to die, you know, and you know you're right. All
I know is what I see, And all I know
is that somewhere along the line, you're not going to
be afraid anymore. Somewhere in that last those last hours,
it's going to go away and somebody will throw you
(50:56):
a lifeline.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
I'm sitting here right now thinking just how special this is.
We really do go on and loved ones come to
greet us or animals. I want to read to you now,
just a couple of quick things. This lady says, My
mom looked out the window of her hospice room and
said she saw all of the dogs she ever had
(51:17):
in her entire life, from the time she was a
child playing outside in the courtyard. She looked so happy
and she smiled, and then she passed away. And another
my father passed away two weeks ago. He was ninety
seven and in hospice. He had basically been non responsive
(51:38):
for weeks. Two days before he died, he had about
six lucid hours. He woke up continually, He asked for food,
asked for a bowl of ice cream, and wanted to
drink his nightly martini, which he did. He was laughing
and joking and very much himself, and then two days
(52:00):
later he died. I know you may be a new listener,
or you may be a long time listener, But for
the past one hundred and forty plus episodes, I've been
trying to give you my all. Not each one of
us is going to witness a loved one have one
of these experiences, but through all these hours of episodes
(52:20):
to give you reasons to believe and have faith that
you are an immortal soul having a human experience. You
are so much bigger and wiser than you could ever imagine.
We are trapped by this little voice in our head
that tries to convince us that we are just human.
But that's not true. We are so much bigger. There's
(52:43):
more to life than meets the eye, and more to
you than you know. Right now, you are surrounded by
invisible cheerleaders who know how hard it is to live
a human life. They will be there when it's your time,
but not too soon, to help you across the veil
to probably the biggest standing ovation that you've crossed over
(53:07):
and completed this life. Make the most of it while
you're here. There's things that we can't do over there.
There are things that we can learn over here that
really add depth to our soul. So take up every
experience you can with that reminder. Our home base is
we Don't Die dot com. Please come visit me on
(53:30):
one of our Sunday gatherings, or take a course, or
just check out other past episodes, or join our Facebook group.
I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you for listening to Shades of
the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am
Paranormal podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
Host
Sandra Champlain
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