January 7, 2022 • 53 mins
Preparing for the Adventure of Your Life!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast,
a paranormal podcast network where we offer you podcasts of
the supernatural and the unexplained. Getting ready now for Shades
of the Afterlife with Sandra Schamplain. Welcome to our podcast.
(00:22):
Please be aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by
the host are their thoughts and opinions only and do
not reflect those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio,
Coast to Coast, am employees of Premier Networks, or their
sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to
do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi.
(00:53):
I'm Sandra Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been
on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
On each episode will discuss the reasons we now know
that our loved ones have survived physical death, and so
will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. Tim McGraw's
(01:14):
famous song Live Like You Were Dying talks about a
man faced with an illness and he goes all out
to do what he wants to do before he dies.
The message in the song is to live full out now,
love deeper and speak sweeter. It's hard for us to
get a handle on our mortality. But when we know
(01:34):
that this life isn't the end for us, I know
we can live a fuller life. The Buddhists have a
meditation called Miranda Zati where they contemplate their lives and
their death, and as a result, they live with respect
for their lives and a sense of urgency to live fully.
(01:54):
Another practice that helps us live our lives more fully
is to take care of the things we've left undone
in our lives. And you don't need to wait till
New Year's to do this. You make a list of
all the things you've been putting off and been procrastinating about,
and things you say someday you'd like to do. Review
(02:15):
the list and be honest with yourself and cross off
the things that in your heart you know you'll never
get to or they're unimportant to you now. But pick
the top three and put them on your calendar. Do
a little bit every day and remembering our goals can
have us get there today. I want to introduce you
(02:35):
to Jane Duncan Rogers, who is the founder of Before
I Go Solutions and not for profit organization dedicated to
helping people to live well by preparing for what's needed
when we take that final adventure in our lives. You
know what I'm talking about. The afterlife is reality, but
(02:56):
like going on any trip, like a vacation, there are
things we need to do to get organized before we go.
This is not a conversation to fear, but instead something
to embrace, because your life will be a whole lot
richer when you have a plan. Jane has been in
the field of psychotherapy and personal growth for more than
(03:16):
twenty five years. She's the author of the book Gifted
by Grief, a true story of cancer, loss and rebirth,
and her latest book is Before I Go, The Essential
Guide to creating a good end of Life Plan. Her
website is Before I Go solutions dot com. Jane, welcome.
(03:37):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here,
and it's a real pleasure to have you here today. Jane,
will you tell us your story? Okay, Well, I was
fifty three, I think when out of the blue my
husband got diagnosed with stomach cancer. There was no reason
(03:57):
for us to suspect that that might happen, so it
was like it just sort of you know, literally did
come out of the blue, and that was the beginning
of a whole lot of changes. He You know, sometimes
you hear about people talking about the last year with
someone as being the best that they had. Well, of
(04:18):
course there's truth in that, because, like you said, when
you're talking about death, actually it focused you to focus
on life, and that, of course is what we did
in that what turned out to be the last year.
Because he died about a year later. I always knew
that I would write about it because at the time
I was a coach and I had a regular blog
(04:39):
and I love writing, so I knew that I was
need to write about this momentous thing that had happened.
In fact, it was him dying was one of my
greatest fears. We had not had children, and the thought
of him dying and me still being around for quite
a long time was really scary. I thought I would
be all alone in the world. Anyway, um, it did happen,
(05:02):
and I wrote I published Gifted by Grief. I started
writing about two years after he died and then, and
that in itself was quite interesting because I just I
knew that I had to wait until I knew. If
you like that I had to write about it. So
I knew that I knew I was going to write
about it in theory, but in practice. Literally, I woke
(05:25):
one morning and I just knew I had to start writing.
And that's what happened. And the following year it was
published Gifted by Grief, and that covers our last year
together and the first year of my grief, and then
what happened as a result of that. I thought that
readers would love, you know, the spiritual learnings and all
(05:46):
this kind of stuff in the book, but actually what
they really liked and asked about was the chapter where
I had written about the questions that I'd asked my
husband before he died. Now, the thing is, when you
were with someone who's dying, you don't know when they're
actually going to die. So I'm saying this happened about
four months before he died, but of course at the
time we didn't know that. We had received an email
(06:08):
from a friend saying, you must get Philip to answer
all these questions, and there was quite a lot of them,
and they were all practical, like what kind of coffin
do you want, how do you want your body to
be dressed? What are your passwords. That kind of stuff
really practical, and neither of us wanted to do it.
(06:28):
And it took three emails from her before actually I
got my aunt together, and together we sat down and
we did address these questions. And simply I asked him
the questions and he gave me the answers and I
typed them in and they were really helpful after he
had died, really helpful to me. And when I wrote
(06:49):
about this in Gifted by Grief, lots of other people
identified with that and and and said to me, I
need to answer these questions too. Really, that was the
beginning in a way I didn't know then it was
the beginning of what has now happened. But you know,
I had a background in running workshops and leading personal
growth work, so I knew what to do in terms
(07:10):
of setting up a workshop, which is what I did.
I researched a little bit more on the questions and
produced just a you know, a few pages of a
four staple together as a workbook. We called it The
Good Death Guide. I think that's how I learned that
using that word wasn't quite ideal. People didn't like it,
(07:32):
at least not in the North of Scotland, but we
didn't do We did do a workshop which sold out
and then and there was a waiting list as well.
So I knew that there was something important here and
this stage I felt like life was showing me the
way and I just had to follow. Well, and what
a gift it is, because I talked to a heart
surgeon and he said, just before somebody goes under the anesthesia,
(07:55):
they're looking back on their life and all the things
they did or didn't do, should have done, and there's
all that unfinished business that normally comes up. And what
would it be like to live life with all those
questions answered that are on your quiz and have all
those things get done? Yeah, that's right. It's like, you know,
(08:19):
this is one of those subjects that people don't want
to look at, which is understandable. I didn't either, But
once you do, first of all, admit that yes, I agree.
For example, I completely agree with you that we don't die,
and yet we also have a body that does get uninhabited,
and then there are remains that have to be taken
(08:41):
care of. And that's just at the physical level. You
know that when I say the remains is of the
remains of the body, but there's the remains of a
life that has been lived on earth, and that can
be quite a complex bundle of stuff if for your
relatives or your friends to take care of if you
haven't taken action right now. That's usually what I tell people,
(09:06):
and everybody goes nose their head and says, yes, that's
a really good idea, must do something about it, and
then they don't do anything about it. And so that's
really why the work that I do is helping people
to actually take action now before it's too late. Yeah,
I think it's really great. I mean, I know from grief,
(09:28):
regardless of what we believe in the afterlife, it's devastating
to us. We go on an emotional roller coaster. It's
to me the worst pain I've ever felt. But now
I really do have this image of checking out of
a hotel. I check the closet, I check under the bed,
(09:49):
I check you know, the bathroom, make sure I've got
everything handled so I can move forward in the next journey.
And if we would look at end of our life
here as simple as I mean, there might be more
things to do that that's just a short stay in
a hotel. But what do we need to do so
(10:12):
that we're free, because nothing's worse than saying, oh, did
I leave this? Did I leave this? Did I leave this?
But once I really check, I know my mind is free.
I would think there'd be more freedom in life that
we've handled all of these particles. Yeah, you're absolutely right,
there is. And because it's like you know, when you
(10:32):
know that something needs doing, even if it's a low level,
you know, low level in the background, it's sacks energy
from you. You don't realize that until you've taken care
of whatever it is. Then you don't have to think
about it anymore because it's done. It doesn't come up
as a magging thought or even some guilt, but you're
not doing anything about it. So therefore you have more
(10:54):
space to be able to devote to being here right now.
You know, that's really important because if you know one thing,
you know, especially if you have suffered the loss of
someone dear to you, then you realize just how important
the simple matter of life is. You know, when we're alive,
we really want to be fully alive and not thinking
(11:17):
about the past or worrying about the future, or wondering
if we should have done that. Or we should have
done this a bit like your hotel anology. I love that,
by the way, and it's absolutely right. It's like, you know,
we've just once we've taken care of these things and
in in what I'm calling a good end of life plan,
then actually we are free to more fully live. Yeah,
(11:39):
that's wonderful. Should we go through your quiz? I don't
know where we should start here. Well, your quiz is
pretty great. I'm glad to hear it is. The quiz.
It's just a few of the questions from what has
now become what I call the Before I Go work book,
which had its origination in those questions that I asked
(12:00):
my husband. But when I realized, you know that that
people wanted this, I thought, well, I need to do
a little bit more research about this, and so there's
been several iterations over the years, and and the quiz
now is taking a few questions from the existing workbook
to give you an idea. And it's really simple. Well,
you know you've done it. It is a really simple quiz. Basically,
(12:21):
the questions are yes or no, and the more that
you have no answers to, the more there are things
that you need to be done. So were there any
in particular that you were interested in any of these questions? Well,
it's interesting because I'm looking on your website now to
try to find the quiz because it's going to drop
my memory. There was one something about do you have
anything you don't want anybody to know about? Yes? Yes, yes,
(12:43):
it's the last one, and it actually says, have you
destroyed any private papers or documents that you'd rather were
not seen by anyone? That's it? Well, you know, the
other day I was giving a talk here locally and
I said to them, now, does anybody have any secrets
that they would rather somebody else in the family didn't
know about? Jane, we have to take a quick break,
(13:03):
but I can't wait to hear you're listening to Shades
of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. Okay, folks, we need
your music. Hey, it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast
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(13:24):
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to Coast am dot com to send us your recording.
That's Coast to Coast am dot com. Happy New Year
(14:02):
from your friends here at I Heart Radio and Coast
to Coast AM. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.
(14:33):
I'm Sanders Champlain and we're with Jane Rogers from Before
I Go Solutions. Jane remind us of that question that
you ask people about secrets. Does anybody have any secrets
that they would rather somebody else in the family didn't
know about? And the whole room burst into laughter. It
was very funny. It was clear that you know, that
(14:54):
question is something that people don't usually think about. But
the thing is, this is really important because I mean,
for example, I worked with a client a couple of
years ago who was in the lot of the end
stages of cancer. She was still relatively okay, she had
got her work book, she was on one of my
(15:15):
first courses. She had actually done quite a lot, but
she was on the course to find out what else
it was to do. And there were two things actually
that she discovered. She had forgotten to think about who
might look after her pet. But the second one was
that she hadn't considered her twenty years worth of journals.
Now in her journal she had written her heart. You know,
(15:35):
she poured out everything and was quite a lot apparently
of things that would have been damaging to her family,
that were simply her way of getting rid of the
emotions at the time. But being aware of this, she decided, right,
I need to get rid of this, and so she
had a big bonfire. Now that was another thing that
helped her to feel free. It was another way that
(15:56):
she was taken care of the ending of her life
in this body at this time. The main thing about
that question is that you make a conscious choice as
a result of considering it, and most people don't even
consider it because it doesn't come into their mind. You know,
there's no right or wrong answers to this is just
what is it feels right for the individual person. So
(16:18):
for some people it would be important that all that
kind of stuff was kept um and maybe then they
would talk about it beforehand to their children or two.
Whoever it is that is relevant and say, you know,
I'm leaving these because there's some wonderful stuff in there,
but there's also some stuff that you just you know,
understand that this was just me releasing my emotions at
(16:41):
the time. You don't need to take it seriously something
like that. And there's some obvious questions that are do
have a will? Have you got a power of attorney?
You want to speak of the importance of those I will,
And if people are anything like me, they think about
the word will or lawyer, and their hearts sinks and
they think about how much it's going to cost you well,
and of course that gets in the way. But the
(17:03):
fact is it is important to have a will, because
even if you think you don't have very much, the
whole process of dealing with the end of life becomes
longer and drawn out simply because you don't have the
documentation in place. Sometimes for some people they can do
a will themselves. I'm hesitant here because the difficulty with
(17:26):
the legal stuff is that you don't know what you
don't know right here too, in the US, I think
it's probably everywhere exactly, so on balance, it's better I
always advise people to see a lawyer. Often there are
charities who will offer a free willmaking service and they
ask you to consider making a donation to them, So
(17:48):
that's one way around it if money is a problem.
These days, also there are some free will making sites
that if you have fairly simple affairs, you can do
that online and you can you can get a will
that way, and it doesn't have to cost anything, but
it does depend on your individual circumstances. And if you
have anything less than very very simple affairs, i. You
(18:12):
don't own anything and there's only one person you're going
to leave everything too, then it's definitely a good idea
to get a lawyer. The power of attorney, that's another
one that people are not too keen on. But the
power of attorney is the person who would be responsible
for your finances. That's your financial power of attorney if
you are incapacitated in any way, or for your health,
(18:35):
a welfare power of attorney if you can't make decisions
about your health. So the reason that this is more
important these days is because there's more of us who
are living longer but not necessarily in good health. So
there's and this effects our ability to be in charge
of our own lives. Let's say, so, power of attorney
(18:58):
really is a form of insurance. So I think you know,
of course, we hope that you're not going to be
incapacitated before you die, and they you wouldn't ever have
to use them. But we don't know. We just don't know.
What about living will? Yeah, living will? Lots of people
recognize it as a living will, but more often these
(19:18):
days it would be called an advanced health care directive,
or in England it's called an advanced decision or an
advanced directive. That's what we call it here. It's basically
a statement that you make which dictates the treatment that
you do not want to receive as you are approaching
the end of your life. I'm saying that it's the
treatment you don't want to receive. Now, this is important
(19:41):
because our medical profession are trained to keep us alive
and to do whatever it is necessary to do that,
which is fair enough, that's what they're trained to do.
If you are in a situation where you would rather
not be kept alive, where you would be being kept
alive by ARTI facial means, say, then some people feel
(20:03):
strongly enough to want to have that written down and
made a legal document. Of and communicated to the relevant
people so that you are upping your chances of that
your instructions being followed should you not be able to
speak for yourself? Who being clear enough here, Yeah, it's
(20:24):
a particularly difficult one to do this. In fact, I
just finished a module on it, and it does take
a bit of time because we have to imagine what
we don't want to imagine, which is that we can't
even imagine, which is that we you know, would be
still alive, but maybe incapacitated in some way, not able
to speak or not able to move, or to not
(20:47):
be able to make our wishes known in some way,
and that's not nice and nobody wants to do that,
let's face it, all right. I was with my dad
going through all those kind of questions and it was
so hard to do. Yeah, And I can't help but
think if we could try to pull ourselves out of
the equation and just like we're doing it for a friend,
(21:11):
someone we care about but not as emotionally attached. And
I think so many of us have been in the
left behind group and we've had to deal with all
these loose ends. Yeah, and it's difficult, especially like I said,
when we're in that state of grief. It's absolutely the
last thing you want to deal with, and it can
(21:32):
take a good many years, that I've found, for that
heavy fog of grief to be released, and so to
have things being taken care of already. I could just
imagine how good that would be. You know, with my husband,
some of some of this we had taken care of,
but I didn't know anything of a list at the
moment at that time, so I was just addressing these
(21:53):
questions that my friends sent me in the email, and
that didn't cover everything I discovered. And but last year
both my parents died, and they had been great students
of mine, you know, they thought the work that I
was doing was great, and they had done their end
of life plans. They had got to work book each
and they completed it. We've done it together, so we
(22:14):
me and my two brothers and sisters, we all knew
what they wanted. And so when they died, which was suddenly,
of course, we were all grieving and it was a horrible,
shocking time. But the thing that we didn't have to
do was try and make decisions, because all we had
to do was go to their work book where they
had listed everything that they wanted, and that was really helpful,
(22:37):
really helpful, because when somebody dies, and you probably know this,
part of the process, the ritual of saying goodbye to
them is being is knowing that you're you're giving them
what they said when they were allying, well, what they
said they wanted. That's actually very soothing, very comforting. And
(22:59):
if you can't do that, you've got the stress of wondering,
you know, would this be what they want? And I
know maybe to some people that doesn't sound much, but
I tell you, when you're grieving, things are different, things
are very different. And first of all, I'm sorry for
the last of your parents. As much as I know
we go on, it's really tough. So the fact that
(23:20):
your husband and your mom and dad, my heart goes
out to you and your family. Thank you, thank you.
The good news is because you've had the work that
created you could see firsthand what a gift it is
to have it complete. And I'm sure you have more
wind beneath your wings to share this because you know
of the difference. Yeah, And almost immediately something happened that
(23:45):
I was able to share an affect quite a lot
of people, and I know that I know because of
the conversations we have with my mom and dad that
they would have laughed at this. Probably in the year previous,
my mom had met a funeral director her and she
had chosen a coffin that was cardboard, but it was
covered in um like wild flowers, you know, they're like
(24:07):
a wild flower meadow. And my dad had been almost
the opposite. He just wanted a plane cardboard one, and
so we knew that that's what they wanted. And um.
As it turned out, my dad had my mom and dad,
they both died in the same week unexpectedly, and I
know it was really shocking. But and what happened was
(24:28):
we had a joint funeral, so we had both the
coffins next to each other in the crematorium and I
took a photo because they looked so beautiful, and I
put it on Facebook to let people see how beautiful
they were. You know that even in this awful situation,
(24:49):
there could be some beauty. And so many people commented
on the particularly the coffin with the flowers on. People
didn't know that that's posible, you know, even just a
couple of weeks or whatever it was after my mom
had died, she was already making a difference in the
world simply by the fact that she had planned and
(25:10):
chosen her coffin earlier on when she had been well.
I was very touched by that. It's such a simple thing.
And yeah, I applaud your mom for doing that. Even
my dad, like your dad, my dad was just whatever
is the cheapest, he says, at least a sense of
nothing fancy. Yes, exactly. I'd rather you kids have the money,
(25:34):
he said, then give it to a funeral parlor. Yeah. Well,
even knowing that piece of information you see is really
helpful because we don't want to look at this subject.
People don't plan for it in advance, and so when
somebody dies, we usually just do what we think we
have to do, which is go to a funeral director
and we will pay whatever it is, because that's what
(25:54):
you do, you know. But we don't ever do that
in other situations. You know, if we were getting the
plumber in, we would be getting three quotes or whatever
it was. You know, it would be shopping around a bit. Now,
if you're willing to plan, you can shop around. You
can actually go and visit a funeral director. You can
decide if you want one or not, you don't have
to have one. You can go to the local crematorium
(26:18):
or the local burial ground and have luke and see
is this somewhere that would feel right for you. But
in order to do all of that, you have to
be willing to face up to the fact that it's
going to happen. Jane will talk more after our next
break and we'll find out about your beliefs in the afterlife.
You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(26:46):
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Coast to Coast day m Paranormal Podcasts. Welcome back to
(27:44):
Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we are
talking to Jane Duncan Rodgers from Before You Go Solutions. Jane,
I know, for me, grief has been very difficult and
dealing with my father's after effects and family and all that,
but there's been one thing that's made it so much
(28:07):
better is knowing the reality of the afterlife. Can you
talk about that? Absolutely? Absolutely? And actually in my latest
book there's a chapter about that. I think I called
it what is a Body? Because it's much much easier
to face up to this practical stuff if you know,
(28:28):
or if you're willing to believe that actually there is
much more to you than just a body, and that
who we are really inhabits this body and it's the
body that dies, but not us exactly. It's so much
easier to do it now. I know not everybody believes that,
but hopefully, you know, people listening to this will be
(28:48):
at least interested in that idea if they don't already
believe it. Yeah, I think a good number, maybe some
of the newcomers may not and be interested, and what's
the show all about. I have calmed the earth for
incre the best of the best evidence of the afterlife
and help through grief, and I'm every bit as much
of a listener as anyone who's listening, So I know
(29:10):
the difference I've had, and I can't help but think
others that have listened to quite a few episodes really
realized that we don't die. Our life is for a reason.
So I think today really is the perfect time to
have this conversation because it is as if we are
checking out of one place or leaving a home and
doing another. You want to make sure everything sorted, everything's
(29:31):
taken care of for the new owners, you know whatever. Yeah,
that's sort of thing, but it is difficult because I can't.
I am sure you're the same way. If you feel
a little grief, all the grief you've ever had is ignited.
It was my anniversary of my dad's death, and even
though I'm at such a good place that I know
he lives on, I couldn't help but replay those last
(29:53):
moments with him and the family feuds and all that
you know, and it's like, Nope, stop Nope, I'm not
going to think that. So it takes something. It does.
It does. It takes a clarity of where you want
to be directing your thoughts, and that actually applies, I
think to when if there is any fear around, maybe
(30:14):
not death itself or what comes after, but what might
happen in the run up. Let's say, because we're out
of control then, and you know, when you're healthy, it's
hard to imagine that you might not that one day
you might not actually be in control of your own body.
It is hard to imagine that. So I always say
(30:34):
to people when you're contemplating this kind of thing, and
especially the advanced directive and what you might like in
your last days, which is another section in the workbook,
it's a really good idea to instead of trying to
put yourself into the future and imagining it, just using
the sentence, which is, if this had happened to me yesterday,
what would I want? Yeah, So you just turn it
(30:56):
around if this had happened to me yesterday, or if
I had died yesterday, what would I want to be happening?
It makes it a little bit easier because it's no
I'm just thinking you have the workbook and you have
the book. Yeah, I'm assuming the book talks about it all,
and the workbook is actually an in action fill in
the blank exactly exactly and both of them. If you
(31:19):
did everything that I said in the actual book itself,
the guide, then if you did all those exercises and
answered all the questions are, you'd have a pretty good
end of life plan. If you want to be absolutely
sure that you're covering all the questions, then the work
book is the one where all the questions are. But
there's no discussion in that. That's why I wrote the
book in the end, because that's where I'm discussing the
(31:41):
thinking that needs to go on behind the scenes in
order to be able to answer the questions. At least
for some people. Now, it sounds great before I go,
solutions dot com is your website. So just a few
other things on these quiz that we don't think about.
One of the things that says, how do you want
your body to be dealt with? Well, it don done
me that I created this will, but you know what happens,
(32:03):
you know, Yeah, I said, I'm okay with Creem Mason.
But that's as far as the directive I gave. Okay,
So here's a little tip. It's yeah, it's a good
idea to even if you say in your will that
you want to be cremated or buried or whatever it
is that you want to have done, it's a really
(32:24):
good idea to have that information accessible and known by
other people as well as well as your executor, because
if that will, for whatever reason, can't easily be found,
then nobody's going to know what needs to happen with
the body. Right. So this happened to a friend of mine.
(32:45):
Actually we she was she was ill, but she wasn't
expected to die. That happened unexpectedly. She was found one morning.
She'd obviously fallen in the night and she was no
longer alive, And because she lived on her own, the
police got involved and they locked the flat. Now, she
had done her preparations, she did have an executive, she
(33:06):
did have a will, but because we couldn't get into
the flat, nobody knew what needed to happen about anything.
Because her documentation was in was in there, nobody else
had a copy of it. So it's really important. That's
why conversations is really important. That's one of the components
(33:27):
of the good end of life plan is that talk
about it. Talk before you've made your decisions, talk after
you've made your decisions. The other part that is essential
as get your decisions written down. Because it's amazing how
many people remember a conversation in a different way, isn't
it though, So that's why I say it needs to
(33:49):
be written down. Whatever it is that you come up with,
it needs to be written down. Yeah. Yeah, our minds
can't be trusted. And then I did some research about
our brain strength that when grieving and our memory is
really shot. I found my cell phone in my refrigerator. Yeah,
oh wow, when did that happen? Yeah, exactly, But people
(34:13):
can relate it happens, So write them down. And there's
some things as simple that we don't think of as
things like bank account passwords and even our like you
call it their online presence or Facebook, Twitter, it is that.
I mean, these are really simple things. I mean, for example, um,
(34:35):
with your digital presence, unless that's organized before you go,
then you are still going to be alive digitally, so
to speak. Now, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But
what I'm wanting to give people as a choice, so
you have to think about it beforehand. What is it
you would want? You know? Well, then it becomes well,
(34:58):
I'm not going to be here, so what we'd be
found they want or what would the friends want, you know,
And that's where the discussion comes in. But it does
have to be taken care of because otherwise, afterwards it's
really difficult to get those accounts closed down if you
haven't taken care of it with a named person beforehand.
And that's all it needs to happen. Yes, it's important
to those that live on after us, But what I'm
(35:21):
really getting Jane, is how important it is for us
in our quality of life. Now. I know what it's
like to live life with a to do list that's
a mile long. Right now, there's no joy, there's no freedom,
there's all the I should be doing this. It's like
(35:41):
a ball and chain. And once I start crossing off
those things, there's a sense of freedom. And if we
can cross off the list, the ultimate thing on our
to do list, think of the freedom to live life. Yeah,
it does work like that. And of course you know,
once you get some freedom and you usually fill it
up again, but then that's another issue. But at least
(36:05):
this end of things is taken care of, and you know,
it is a very selfless act. Let's be really clear
about this, because you're not going to be around to
appreciate how grateful your friends and family will be. Now
you might be able to experience that from the other side,
so to speak, but in this body, here and now,
you're not going to be And that's why so many
(36:25):
people say, why would I do any of this. I'm
going to be dead, I won't be here. It doesn't matter,
it don't care. You know, that's quite a common reaction
until people really start to think about the effect of
that mess and model left behind, Like when you check
out of the hotel, if things haven't been left tidy,
then there is a mess for other people to sort through.
(36:47):
And and because people are grieving, that's made doubly difficult,
even troubly difficult. And I really do believe one thing
in common by everybody who's listening right now is we've
experienced that grief and we know that pain, and then
talk about the unfinished business as well. But I also
(37:07):
knew that one of the characteristics I think of being
human is we love to be generous, and who doesn't
like to give a gift at the holidays, right, you know,
it feels better to give than receive. And if we
can look at completing our before I go plan as
a gift we're giving someone, it might be the way
(37:29):
to get it done, as opposed to I've got to
get this done. No, it's a gift. You know. Think
about your children or your grandchildren or whoever it's going
to be, the executiveutor whatever. I mean. They're gonna be
missing you. That's going to be all that grief. But
to give them the ultimate gift of saying, oh they
had everything handled, that was easy. Yeah. Well, one of
(37:50):
the little phrases that I have is to say that
a good end of life plan is a great going
away present, and it is. It's true. And there's another
it's actually about a good end of life plan, which
isn't on the on the quiz. It's about creating your
living legacy what I call your living legacy. Now that's
how you want to be remembered. And I call it
(38:12):
a living legacy because it's never your legacy until you died.
So while you're still alive and you're creating it, whatever
it is, then that's why it's still living. But this
is something like that you have a choice over. Traditionally
that might be simpler things like what their favorite recipe
was or what was the perfume that they always wore.
(38:34):
Because it's these sorts of things that the people afterwards
will choose to really evoke your presence or evoke a memory,
and that can be incredibly valuable. And that doesn't even
begin to mention some of the adventures and learnings that
you've had throughout your life that can be really valuable
(38:54):
for people. And we don't always know that when we're alive.
But I'm on a mission to encourage people to do
their living legacies because those afterwards are so grateful usually
that's very nice. I don't have but a couple of
recordings of my dad's voice. Even speaking with my mom
not too long ago, she started telling me stories that
(39:16):
I've never heard before, but just to have some of
those things may be recorded, Yes, exactly. And we must
underestimate how much people like to know about the person.
We usually discover this at the funeral when there's a
eulogy of some kind. Let's take our last break now,
(39:37):
and when we come back. You had said there's some
components and you had some stories about the afterlife. You're
listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart
Radio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal podcast network. Did
(40:02):
you know that tests that could save your life from
cancer are now available for a little or no cost
thanks to the healthcare law called the Affordable Care Act.
Let this be the year you get screening tests that
can detect cancer early when it's most treatable. Don't let
concerns get in the way. Talk to a doctor or
other medical professional to learn more about the best cancer
(40:23):
testing options for you. Happy New Year from your friends
here at I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM.
(41:02):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sad Shamplain
and we're with Jane Duncan Rogers. Jane, what are these components?
You're talking about the eight components of a good death
of life plan, because I organize them into eight components
to try and make it a bit simpler to think
about it. Because obviously there's the legals and we've talked
about those. There's the last days and we talked about
(41:23):
that as well. There is the funeral. When people think
about death, they usually think about wills, and funerals. That's
what they know about, but you might not know that.
Actually don't have to have a funeral. You don't need
to have a funeral, really, but yeah, you don't need
to have a funeral. What you do need to do
is the body needs to be disposed of legally, according
(41:43):
to the law in your country or wherever it is.
The fourth one is the living legacy, which we've talked about.
The fifth one the digital life. We've we've also talked
a little bit about that. There is the household. Now
the household others things like how much stuff have you
got in your house that might need to be sorted through?
(42:06):
Usually this provokes quite a few laughs as well, because
a lot of people have a lot of stuff, and
you know, once you're no longer there, somebody's going to
have to go through it or it will just all
get taken away by how is clearance? Person. If you
don't want that to happen, then you need to take
care of some things. That's from the decluttering point of view,
(42:27):
But there are other things as well, which for example,
maybe ten days or something after my husband died, I
was on my own in the house for the first time,
and a friend had been visiting, and I had just
taken her to the airport actually, and I was coming back,
was coming back to the house on my own, sat
down to switch on the television. It came on, but
(42:48):
not at the screen that I was familiar with, so
it clearly she had been doing something with it. And
could I get it to the screen that showed the
guide with all the different programs. I couldn't do it,
and I was beside myself with grief. I was just
in flunts of tears because that's the sort of thing
(43:09):
that Philip would have done right in our house. You know.
He was the one who was a techy one. He
knew about all that sort of stuff. And I didn't
have a clue, and I couldn't, even in my muddeled
thinking state, get it to where I wanted it to be. Now,
that could have been taken care of if he had
simply maybe written down a few steps to take, because
(43:30):
you know, I looked at the manual, but you know
what manuals are like these days, and I know exactly.
So that's the kind of thing detail that you don't
necessarily think about that can be very very useful, I e.
Things like how does the household run, how do the
machines run? What happens? It's not unusual even in this
(43:52):
day and age for many men not to know about
much about what goes on in the kitchen and all.
That sounds a bit sexist, but let's maybe say partners.
But often I found its men because we are dealing
at they say it's mostly older people who are dying,
and that's how they've been brought up in that generation.
So that's the sixth one. And then I've mentioned also
(44:14):
the the last two of the components, and that is
to share it with somebody else, to talk about it beforehand,
and also to get it down in writing. Really important
all those areas, and that's what I call a good
end of life plan. Excellent. And I'm thinking in addition
to for those who are listening right now, we are
people interested in the afterlife. And I know for me,
(44:38):
just to answer my own question, I'm going on and
I would love to contact my loved ones from beyond,
whether it's a certain kind of a sign or I'm
interested in electronic voice phenomena, So I'm going to try
this or here is a secret code that go to
a medium, and this is what I'm going to try
to say, we could lighten up. This is just speculation, Jane,
(45:02):
but just this has been something that I've been interested in.
And your loved ones might not know that. You know
from where you're going to sit in the hereafter. You know,
maybe it's what part you're going to play in their life. Sure,
I'll be with you when you quiet your mind. I'll
be whispering in your ear, giving you love, cheering you on.
It's lovely. I really like that. Not because I think
(45:26):
many of us in that listen to the show and
interested in afterlife things. It's still not mainstream conversation. And
many of us have people in our life that when
eyebrow goes up when we start talking about this afterlife
thing or reading a book, and to be able to
be honest with our loved ones in whatever workbook that
(45:50):
we have being left here it is, this is my belief.
I'm sticking around. I'll be there to cheer you on.
I'm specially interested in the swarm of communication or this
kind of sign and keep your eyes out for a
cardinal or a butterfly or whatever. Yeah, that sort of thing. Yes, Yes,
(46:10):
and I'm a great I'm a great believer in signs,
and I definitely had my share of them after both
my parents died and my husband as well. And somehow
you just have you just know, you know, you just
know that that's them communicating. Can I ask a couple
of the signs that you've got? Sure? Yeah? My husband.
It was about maybe three weeks after after he had died,
(46:31):
and I was out in the woods walking. I was
incredibly angry that this had happened at all. I didn't
know where he was, and I really wanted to know
where he was. I couldn't bear that, and so I
was shouting out, where are you? Where are you? And
then about half an hour later, I was walking past
the little cops of going through a field, walking past
the cops of trees, and I felt a very strong
(46:54):
pool to go in the middle of them. Now, I've
never had that before. I walked past this cops millions
of times, and in the middle I sat down on
a broken log and I looked up and I saw
a dead tree with woodpecker holes in it. Now I
burst into tears at that moment because I knew that
the woodpecker holes were the sign. Because we had been
(47:17):
campinging in California in the Capra van one night in
a particular place where we were surrounded in by pine
trees that had woodpecker holes. We'd had a long conversation
about it, and we'd even I'd brought back some a
little tiny bit of bark with a hole in it,
so I knew that I had been guided there by him,
(47:40):
with him telling me that he was okay, I know it. Yes,
It's lovely, isn't it. And then there was another one
with my mom. She loved hedgehogs, and she knew there
was a hedgehog in her garden, but she hadn't seen
it for ages months. She'd seen it once. I think
it was maybe two or three days after she died.
I was out in the garden and I in the
(48:03):
middle of the day, and hedgehog's only come out at night.
But in the middle of the day I turned around
and there was this hedgehog right in the middle of
the loan, just sitting there. It wasn't curled up in
a bowl, it was just sitting there, and I sort
of crouched down and looked at it, and I thought,
this is Mom was so sweet, And then it just
(48:23):
sort of toddled off into the undergrowth. But it was like, oh,
my goodness, she really is there. You know. It was
really lovely. That's really nice, really nice. There's a my
aunt's friends, good friends. Father had passed away not too
long ago, and he was a big lover of cardinals,
and there were seven of them in the family left,
(48:45):
and so they were all sitting in dad's favorite room,
which is a little screened in porch, and seven cardinals
came red cardinals. So they must have all been the
mails into the tree right by the window. Oh when
does that happen? Exactly? So a skeptical mind could say coincidence, woodpeckers, hedgehogs,
(49:08):
But let your heart decide, because these are signs. And well,
you know, I said after I said to my niece,
my mom's granddaughter. She was aged nine at the time.
I said to her, I told her about the hedgehog,
and immediately she said that was granny. So it's like, yes,
(49:30):
I didn't suggest that too, she just knew it as well.
It was lovely. That's great. I see my dad's name
a lot. His name is John, and I will just
glance up and it'll be on someone's license plate. Or
sign on a restaurant or something. And so maybe back
in the end of life work books like I'm going
(49:50):
to put my name places, you know, beyond the lookout,
you know, because those kind of things that really give
hope to the person that's left behind. Absolutely absolutely hope.
And this soothing and comforting and all of that is
really good. Yeah. And I can't tell you, Jane, how
many people that I've interviewed that had near death experiences
(50:12):
and things. And I have this vision of when we
take our last breath, close our eyes here on earth,
we open them in a place and it is like
crossing the finish line. Our loved ones are there, our
pets are there. Everybody's young and healthy and sharing us on.
So to leave a few words behind two in the
(50:34):
workbook of be watching over you. This is what your
life is for. And I will be right there when
you cross the finish line, be the first one to
greet you, or um moments before you go. You know,
I'll be there to take you to the next place
something like that, because those are things that can be
held onto and really help someone in their time of grief. Beautiful. Yes,
(50:57):
So now I take my own advice let's see. Well,
I'm committed to Jane. Thank you so much for being
our guest today. It's a pleasure at this I love
that you love it because it's kind of, I don't
want to say, a taboo subject, but it's hard for
people to think about. And I can only pray that
(51:20):
we've talked about the reality of the afterlife so much
that this is the group that's going to take the
advice and go forward. Before I Go solutions dot Com, Yeah,
website names of your book Before I Go, The Essential
Guide to creating a good end of life plan. And
I'm also inspired by Gifted by Grief, a true story
(51:43):
of cancer, loss and rebirth. Yeah, there's probably a few
more stories of signs and visions and things in that
in that one. Wow. Well, Jane, thanks again for being
our guest. Thank you, it was an absolutely a pleasure.
And for our listeners, thank you so much for listening.
I know this doesn't seem like a traditional show, but
(52:05):
I do believe if we can cross off our list
of things to do this one big thing, which is
our end of life stuff, we can live a whole
different kind of life. And wouldn't it be great to
live a life, that you're really free to do what
you want to do and you don't have this big
(52:27):
thing hanging over your shoulders. So that's why I invited
Jane here today as a reminder. Our home base is
we Don't Die dot Com. Lots of new classes, of course,
our Sunday gathering and come just join us for something.
If you'd like to read a copy of my book
or listen to the audio book, just go to the
(52:49):
store at we Don't Die dot com, scroll down and
use coupon code free. Be my guest. So I'm Sanders
Champlain in a big, warm thank you for listening to
Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. And if you
(53:21):
like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until
you hear the next one. Thank you for listening to
the Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a m paranormal
podcast Network.
You're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast,
a paranormal podcast network where we offer you podcasts of
the supernatural and the unexplained. Getting ready now for Shades
of the Afterlife with Sandra Schamplain. Welcome to our podcast.
(00:22):
Please be aware of the thoughts and opinions expressed by
the host are their thoughts and opinions only and do
not reflect those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio,
Coast to Coast, am employees of Premier Networks, or their
sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to
do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi.
(00:53):
I'm Sandra Schamplain. For almost twenty five years, I've been
on a journey to prove the existence of life after death.
On each episode will discuss the reasons we now know
that our loved ones have survived physical death, and so
will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. Tim McGraw's
(01:14):
famous song Live Like You Were Dying talks about a
man faced with an illness and he goes all out
to do what he wants to do before he dies.
The message in the song is to live full out now,
love deeper and speak sweeter. It's hard for us to
get a handle on our mortality. But when we know
(01:34):
that this life isn't the end for us, I know
we can live a fuller life. The Buddhists have a
meditation called Miranda Zati where they contemplate their lives and
their death, and as a result, they live with respect
for their lives and a sense of urgency to live fully.
(01:54):
Another practice that helps us live our lives more fully
is to take care of the things we've left undone
in our lives. And you don't need to wait till
New Year's to do this. You make a list of
all the things you've been putting off and been procrastinating about,
and things you say someday you'd like to do. Review
(02:15):
the list and be honest with yourself and cross off
the things that in your heart you know you'll never
get to or they're unimportant to you now. But pick
the top three and put them on your calendar. Do
a little bit every day and remembering our goals can
have us get there today. I want to introduce you
(02:35):
to Jane Duncan Rogers, who is the founder of Before
I Go Solutions and not for profit organization dedicated to
helping people to live well by preparing for what's needed
when we take that final adventure in our lives. You
know what I'm talking about. The afterlife is reality, but
(02:56):
like going on any trip, like a vacation, there are
things we need to do to get organized before we go.
This is not a conversation to fear, but instead something
to embrace, because your life will be a whole lot
richer when you have a plan. Jane has been in
the field of psychotherapy and personal growth for more than
(03:16):
twenty five years. She's the author of the book Gifted
by Grief, a true story of cancer, loss and rebirth,
and her latest book is Before I Go, The Essential
Guide to creating a good end of Life Plan. Her
website is Before I Go solutions dot com. Jane, welcome.
(03:37):
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here,
and it's a real pleasure to have you here today. Jane,
will you tell us your story? Okay, Well, I was
fifty three, I think when out of the blue my
husband got diagnosed with stomach cancer. There was no reason
(03:57):
for us to suspect that that might happen, so it
was like it just sort of you know, literally did
come out of the blue, and that was the beginning
of a whole lot of changes. He You know, sometimes
you hear about people talking about the last year with
someone as being the best that they had. Well, of
(04:18):
course there's truth in that, because, like you said, when
you're talking about death, actually it focused you to focus
on life, and that, of course is what we did
in that what turned out to be the last year.
Because he died about a year later. I always knew
that I would write about it because at the time
I was a coach and I had a regular blog
(04:39):
and I love writing, so I knew that I was
need to write about this momentous thing that had happened.
In fact, it was him dying was one of my
greatest fears. We had not had children, and the thought
of him dying and me still being around for quite
a long time was really scary. I thought I would
be all alone in the world. Anyway, um, it did happen,
(05:02):
and I wrote I published Gifted by Grief. I started
writing about two years after he died and then, and
that in itself was quite interesting because I just I
knew that I had to wait until I knew. If
you like that I had to write about it. So
I knew that I knew I was going to write
about it in theory, but in practice. Literally, I woke
(05:25):
one morning and I just knew I had to start writing.
And that's what happened. And the following year it was
published Gifted by Grief, and that covers our last year
together and the first year of my grief, and then
what happened as a result of that. I thought that
readers would love, you know, the spiritual learnings and all
(05:46):
this kind of stuff in the book, but actually what
they really liked and asked about was the chapter where
I had written about the questions that I'd asked my
husband before he died. Now, the thing is, when you
were with someone who's dying, you don't know when they're
actually going to die. So I'm saying this happened about
four months before he died, but of course at the
time we didn't know that. We had received an email
(06:08):
from a friend saying, you must get Philip to answer
all these questions, and there was quite a lot of them,
and they were all practical, like what kind of coffin
do you want, how do you want your body to
be dressed? What are your passwords. That kind of stuff
really practical, and neither of us wanted to do it.
(06:28):
And it took three emails from her before actually I
got my aunt together, and together we sat down and
we did address these questions. And simply I asked him
the questions and he gave me the answers and I
typed them in and they were really helpful after he
had died, really helpful to me. And when I wrote
(06:49):
about this in Gifted by Grief, lots of other people
identified with that and and and said to me, I
need to answer these questions too. Really, that was the
beginning in a way I didn't know then it was
the beginning of what has now happened. But you know,
I had a background in running workshops and leading personal
growth work, so I knew what to do in terms
(07:10):
of setting up a workshop, which is what I did.
I researched a little bit more on the questions and
produced just a you know, a few pages of a
four staple together as a workbook. We called it The
Good Death Guide. I think that's how I learned that
using that word wasn't quite ideal. People didn't like it,
(07:32):
at least not in the North of Scotland, but we
didn't do We did do a workshop which sold out
and then and there was a waiting list as well.
So I knew that there was something important here and
this stage I felt like life was showing me the
way and I just had to follow. Well, and what
a gift it is, because I talked to a heart
surgeon and he said, just before somebody goes under the anesthesia,
(07:55):
they're looking back on their life and all the things
they did or didn't do, should have done, and there's
all that unfinished business that normally comes up. And what
would it be like to live life with all those
questions answered that are on your quiz and have all
those things get done? Yeah, that's right. It's like, you know,
(08:19):
this is one of those subjects that people don't want
to look at, which is understandable. I didn't either, But
once you do, first of all, admit that yes, I agree.
For example, I completely agree with you that we don't die,
and yet we also have a body that does get uninhabited,
and then there are remains that have to be taken
(08:41):
care of. And that's just at the physical level. You
know that when I say the remains is of the
remains of the body, but there's the remains of a
life that has been lived on earth, and that can
be quite a complex bundle of stuff if for your
relatives or your friends to take care of if you
haven't taken action right now. That's usually what I tell people,
(09:06):
and everybody goes nose their head and says, yes, that's
a really good idea, must do something about it, and
then they don't do anything about it. And so that's
really why the work that I do is helping people
to actually take action now before it's too late. Yeah,
I think it's really great. I mean, I know from grief,
(09:28):
regardless of what we believe in the afterlife, it's devastating
to us. We go on an emotional roller coaster. It's
to me the worst pain I've ever felt. But now
I really do have this image of checking out of
a hotel. I check the closet, I check under the bed,
(09:49):
I check you know, the bathroom, make sure I've got
everything handled so I can move forward in the next journey.
And if we would look at end of our life
here as simple as I mean, there might be more
things to do that that's just a short stay in
a hotel. But what do we need to do so
(10:12):
that we're free, because nothing's worse than saying, oh, did
I leave this? Did I leave this? Did I leave this?
But once I really check, I know my mind is free.
I would think there'd be more freedom in life that
we've handled all of these particles. Yeah, you're absolutely right,
there is. And because it's like you know, when you
(10:32):
know that something needs doing, even if it's a low level,
you know, low level in the background, it's sacks energy
from you. You don't realize that until you've taken care
of whatever it is. Then you don't have to think
about it anymore because it's done. It doesn't come up
as a magging thought or even some guilt, but you're
not doing anything about it. So therefore you have more
(10:54):
space to be able to devote to being here right now.
You know, that's really important because if you know one thing,
you know, especially if you have suffered the loss of
someone dear to you, then you realize just how important
the simple matter of life is. You know, when we're alive,
we really want to be fully alive and not thinking
(11:17):
about the past or worrying about the future, or wondering
if we should have done that. Or we should have
done this a bit like your hotel anology. I love that,
by the way, and it's absolutely right. It's like, you know,
we've just once we've taken care of these things and
in in what I'm calling a good end of life plan,
then actually we are free to more fully live. Yeah,
(11:39):
that's wonderful. Should we go through your quiz? I don't
know where we should start here. Well, your quiz is
pretty great. I'm glad to hear it is. The quiz.
It's just a few of the questions from what has
now become what I call the Before I Go work book,
which had its origination in those questions that I asked
(12:00):
my husband. But when I realized, you know that that
people wanted this, I thought, well, I need to do
a little bit more research about this, and so there's
been several iterations over the years, and and the quiz
now is taking a few questions from the existing workbook
to give you an idea. And it's really simple. Well,
you know you've done it. It is a really simple quiz. Basically,
(12:21):
the questions are yes or no, and the more that
you have no answers to, the more there are things
that you need to be done. So were there any
in particular that you were interested in any of these questions? Well,
it's interesting because I'm looking on your website now to
try to find the quiz because it's going to drop
my memory. There was one something about do you have
anything you don't want anybody to know about? Yes? Yes, yes,
(12:43):
it's the last one, and it actually says, have you
destroyed any private papers or documents that you'd rather were
not seen by anyone? That's it? Well, you know, the
other day I was giving a talk here locally and
I said to them, now, does anybody have any secrets
that they would rather somebody else in the family didn't
know about? Jane, we have to take a quick break,
(13:03):
but I can't wait to hear you're listening to Shades
of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. Okay, folks, we need
your music. Hey, it's producer Tom at Coast to Coast
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(13:24):
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That's Coast to Coast am dot com. Happy New Year
(14:02):
from your friends here at I Heart Radio and Coast
to Coast AM. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.
(14:33):
I'm Sanders Champlain and we're with Jane Rogers from Before
I Go Solutions. Jane remind us of that question that
you ask people about secrets. Does anybody have any secrets
that they would rather somebody else in the family didn't
know about? And the whole room burst into laughter. It
was very funny. It was clear that you know, that
(14:54):
question is something that people don't usually think about. But
the thing is, this is really important because I mean,
for example, I worked with a client a couple of
years ago who was in the lot of the end
stages of cancer. She was still relatively okay, she had
got her work book, she was on one of my
(15:15):
first courses. She had actually done quite a lot, but
she was on the course to find out what else
it was to do. And there were two things actually
that she discovered. She had forgotten to think about who
might look after her pet. But the second one was
that she hadn't considered her twenty years worth of journals.
Now in her journal she had written her heart. You know,
(15:35):
she poured out everything and was quite a lot apparently
of things that would have been damaging to her family,
that were simply her way of getting rid of the
emotions at the time. But being aware of this, she decided, right,
I need to get rid of this, and so she
had a big bonfire. Now that was another thing that
helped her to feel free. It was another way that
(15:56):
she was taken care of the ending of her life
in this body at this time. The main thing about
that question is that you make a conscious choice as
a result of considering it, and most people don't even
consider it because it doesn't come into their mind. You know,
there's no right or wrong answers to this is just
what is it feels right for the individual person. So
(16:18):
for some people it would be important that all that
kind of stuff was kept um and maybe then they
would talk about it beforehand to their children or two.
Whoever it is that is relevant and say, you know,
I'm leaving these because there's some wonderful stuff in there,
but there's also some stuff that you just you know,
understand that this was just me releasing my emotions at
(16:41):
the time. You don't need to take it seriously something
like that. And there's some obvious questions that are do
have a will? Have you got a power of attorney?
You want to speak of the importance of those I will,
And if people are anything like me, they think about
the word will or lawyer, and their hearts sinks and
they think about how much it's going to cost you well,
and of course that gets in the way. But the
(17:03):
fact is it is important to have a will, because
even if you think you don't have very much, the
whole process of dealing with the end of life becomes
longer and drawn out simply because you don't have the
documentation in place. Sometimes for some people they can do
a will themselves. I'm hesitant here because the difficulty with
(17:26):
the legal stuff is that you don't know what you
don't know right here too, in the US, I think
it's probably everywhere exactly, so on balance, it's better I
always advise people to see a lawyer. Often there are
charities who will offer a free willmaking service and they
ask you to consider making a donation to them, So
(17:48):
that's one way around it if money is a problem.
These days, also there are some free will making sites
that if you have fairly simple affairs, you can do
that online and you can you can get a will
that way, and it doesn't have to cost anything, but
it does depend on your individual circumstances. And if you
have anything less than very very simple affairs, i. You
(18:12):
don't own anything and there's only one person you're going
to leave everything too, then it's definitely a good idea
to get a lawyer. The power of attorney, that's another
one that people are not too keen on. But the
power of attorney is the person who would be responsible
for your finances. That's your financial power of attorney if
you are incapacitated in any way, or for your health,
(18:35):
a welfare power of attorney if you can't make decisions
about your health. So the reason that this is more
important these days is because there's more of us who
are living longer but not necessarily in good health. So
there's and this effects our ability to be in charge
of our own lives. Let's say, so, power of attorney
(18:58):
really is a form of insurance. So I think you know,
of course, we hope that you're not going to be
incapacitated before you die, and they you wouldn't ever have
to use them. But we don't know. We just don't know.
What about living will? Yeah, living will? Lots of people
recognize it as a living will, but more often these
(19:18):
days it would be called an advanced health care directive,
or in England it's called an advanced decision or an
advanced directive. That's what we call it here. It's basically
a statement that you make which dictates the treatment that
you do not want to receive as you are approaching
the end of your life. I'm saying that it's the
treatment you don't want to receive. Now, this is important
(19:41):
because our medical profession are trained to keep us alive
and to do whatever it is necessary to do that,
which is fair enough, that's what they're trained to do.
If you are in a situation where you would rather
not be kept alive, where you would be being kept
alive by ARTI facial means, say, then some people feel
(20:03):
strongly enough to want to have that written down and
made a legal document. Of and communicated to the relevant
people so that you are upping your chances of that
your instructions being followed should you not be able to
speak for yourself? Who being clear enough here, Yeah, it's
(20:24):
a particularly difficult one to do this. In fact, I
just finished a module on it, and it does take
a bit of time because we have to imagine what
we don't want to imagine, which is that we can't
even imagine, which is that we you know, would be
still alive, but maybe incapacitated in some way, not able
to speak or not able to move, or to not
(20:47):
be able to make our wishes known in some way,
and that's not nice and nobody wants to do that,
let's face it, all right. I was with my dad
going through all those kind of questions and it was
so hard to do. Yeah, And I can't help but
think if we could try to pull ourselves out of
the equation and just like we're doing it for a friend,
(21:11):
someone we care about but not as emotionally attached. And
I think so many of us have been in the
left behind group and we've had to deal with all
these loose ends. Yeah, and it's difficult, especially like I said,
when we're in that state of grief. It's absolutely the
last thing you want to deal with, and it can
(21:32):
take a good many years, that I've found, for that
heavy fog of grief to be released, and so to
have things being taken care of already. I could just
imagine how good that would be. You know, with my husband,
some of some of this we had taken care of,
but I didn't know anything of a list at the
moment at that time, so I was just addressing these
(21:53):
questions that my friends sent me in the email, and
that didn't cover everything I discovered. And but last year
both my parents died, and they had been great students
of mine, you know, they thought the work that I
was doing was great, and they had done their end
of life plans. They had got to work book each
and they completed it. We've done it together, so we
(22:14):
me and my two brothers and sisters, we all knew
what they wanted. And so when they died, which was suddenly,
of course, we were all grieving and it was a horrible,
shocking time. But the thing that we didn't have to
do was try and make decisions, because all we had
to do was go to their work book where they
had listed everything that they wanted, and that was really helpful,
(22:37):
really helpful, because when somebody dies, and you probably know this,
part of the process, the ritual of saying goodbye to
them is being is knowing that you're you're giving them
what they said when they were allying, well, what they
said they wanted. That's actually very soothing, very comforting. And
(22:59):
if you can't do that, you've got the stress of wondering,
you know, would this be what they want? And I
know maybe to some people that doesn't sound much, but
I tell you, when you're grieving, things are different, things
are very different. And first of all, I'm sorry for
the last of your parents. As much as I know
we go on, it's really tough. So the fact that
(23:20):
your husband and your mom and dad, my heart goes
out to you and your family. Thank you, thank you.
The good news is because you've had the work that
created you could see firsthand what a gift it is
to have it complete. And I'm sure you have more
wind beneath your wings to share this because you know
of the difference. Yeah, And almost immediately something happened that
(23:45):
I was able to share an affect quite a lot
of people, and I know that I know because of
the conversations we have with my mom and dad that
they would have laughed at this. Probably in the year previous,
my mom had met a funeral director her and she
had chosen a coffin that was cardboard, but it was
covered in um like wild flowers, you know, they're like
(24:07):
a wild flower meadow. And my dad had been almost
the opposite. He just wanted a plane cardboard one, and
so we knew that that's what they wanted. And um.
As it turned out, my dad had my mom and dad,
they both died in the same week unexpectedly, and I
know it was really shocking. But and what happened was
(24:28):
we had a joint funeral, so we had both the
coffins next to each other in the crematorium and I
took a photo because they looked so beautiful, and I
put it on Facebook to let people see how beautiful
they were. You know that even in this awful situation,
(24:49):
there could be some beauty. And so many people commented
on the particularly the coffin with the flowers on. People
didn't know that that's posible, you know, even just a
couple of weeks or whatever it was after my mom
had died, she was already making a difference in the
world simply by the fact that she had planned and
(25:10):
chosen her coffin earlier on when she had been well.
I was very touched by that. It's such a simple thing.
And yeah, I applaud your mom for doing that. Even
my dad, like your dad, my dad was just whatever
is the cheapest, he says, at least a sense of
nothing fancy. Yes, exactly. I'd rather you kids have the money,
(25:34):
he said, then give it to a funeral parlor. Yeah. Well,
even knowing that piece of information you see is really
helpful because we don't want to look at this subject.
People don't plan for it in advance, and so when
somebody dies, we usually just do what we think we
have to do, which is go to a funeral director
and we will pay whatever it is, because that's what
(25:54):
you do, you know. But we don't ever do that
in other situations. You know, if we were getting the
plumber in, we would be getting three quotes or whatever
it was. You know, it would be shopping around a bit. Now,
if you're willing to plan, you can shop around. You
can actually go and visit a funeral director. You can
decide if you want one or not, you don't have
to have one. You can go to the local crematorium
(26:18):
or the local burial ground and have luke and see
is this somewhere that would feel right for you. But
in order to do all of that, you have to
be willing to face up to the fact that it's
going to happen. Jane will talk more after our next
break and we'll find out about your beliefs in the afterlife.
You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(26:46):
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dot com. You're listening to the I Heart Radio and
Coast to Coast day m Paranormal Podcasts. Welcome back to
(27:44):
Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain and we are
talking to Jane Duncan Rodgers from Before You Go Solutions. Jane,
I know, for me, grief has been very difficult and
dealing with my father's after effects and family and all that,
but there's been one thing that's made it so much
(28:07):
better is knowing the reality of the afterlife. Can you
talk about that? Absolutely? Absolutely? And actually in my latest
book there's a chapter about that. I think I called
it what is a Body? Because it's much much easier
to face up to this practical stuff if you know,
(28:28):
or if you're willing to believe that actually there is
much more to you than just a body, and that
who we are really inhabits this body and it's the
body that dies, but not us exactly. It's so much
easier to do it now. I know not everybody believes that,
but hopefully, you know, people listening to this will be
(28:48):
at least interested in that idea if they don't already
believe it. Yeah, I think a good number, maybe some
of the newcomers may not and be interested, and what's
the show all about. I have calmed the earth for
incre the best of the best evidence of the afterlife
and help through grief, and I'm every bit as much
of a listener as anyone who's listening, So I know
(29:10):
the difference I've had, and I can't help but think
others that have listened to quite a few episodes really
realized that we don't die. Our life is for a reason.
So I think today really is the perfect time to
have this conversation because it is as if we are
checking out of one place or leaving a home and
doing another. You want to make sure everything sorted, everything's
(29:31):
taken care of for the new owners, you know whatever. Yeah,
that's sort of thing, but it is difficult because I can't.
I am sure you're the same way. If you feel
a little grief, all the grief you've ever had is ignited.
It was my anniversary of my dad's death, and even
though I'm at such a good place that I know
he lives on, I couldn't help but replay those last
(29:53):
moments with him and the family feuds and all that
you know, and it's like, Nope, stop Nope, I'm not
going to think that. So it takes something. It does.
It does. It takes a clarity of where you want
to be directing your thoughts, and that actually applies, I
think to when if there is any fear around, maybe
(30:14):
not death itself or what comes after, but what might
happen in the run up. Let's say, because we're out
of control then, and you know, when you're healthy, it's
hard to imagine that you might not that one day
you might not actually be in control of your own body.
It is hard to imagine that. So I always say
(30:34):
to people when you're contemplating this kind of thing, and
especially the advanced directive and what you might like in
your last days, which is another section in the workbook,
it's a really good idea to instead of trying to
put yourself into the future and imagining it, just using
the sentence, which is, if this had happened to me yesterday,
what would I want? Yeah, So you just turn it
(30:56):
around if this had happened to me yesterday, or if
I had died yesterday, what would I want to be happening?
It makes it a little bit easier because it's no
I'm just thinking you have the workbook and you have
the book. Yeah, I'm assuming the book talks about it all,
and the workbook is actually an in action fill in
the blank exactly exactly and both of them. If you
(31:19):
did everything that I said in the actual book itself,
the guide, then if you did all those exercises and
answered all the questions are, you'd have a pretty good
end of life plan. If you want to be absolutely
sure that you're covering all the questions, then the work
book is the one where all the questions are. But
there's no discussion in that. That's why I wrote the
book in the end, because that's where I'm discussing the
(31:41):
thinking that needs to go on behind the scenes in
order to be able to answer the questions. At least
for some people. Now, it sounds great before I go,
solutions dot com is your website. So just a few
other things on these quiz that we don't think about.
One of the things that says, how do you want
your body to be dealt with? Well, it don done
me that I created this will, but you know what happens,
(32:03):
you know, Yeah, I said, I'm okay with Creem Mason.
But that's as far as the directive I gave. Okay,
So here's a little tip. It's yeah, it's a good
idea to even if you say in your will that
you want to be cremated or buried or whatever it
is that you want to have done, it's a really
(32:24):
good idea to have that information accessible and known by
other people as well as well as your executor, because
if that will, for whatever reason, can't easily be found,
then nobody's going to know what needs to happen with
the body. Right. So this happened to a friend of mine.
(32:45):
Actually we she was she was ill, but she wasn't
expected to die. That happened unexpectedly. She was found one morning.
She'd obviously fallen in the night and she was no
longer alive, And because she lived on her own, the
police got involved and they locked the flat. Now, she
had done her preparations, she did have an executive, she
(33:06):
did have a will, but because we couldn't get into
the flat, nobody knew what needed to happen about anything.
Because her documentation was in was in there, nobody else
had a copy of it. So it's really important. That's
why conversations is really important. That's one of the components
(33:27):
of the good end of life plan is that talk
about it. Talk before you've made your decisions, talk after
you've made your decisions. The other part that is essential
as get your decisions written down. Because it's amazing how
many people remember a conversation in a different way, isn't
it though, So that's why I say it needs to
(33:49):
be written down. Whatever it is that you come up with,
it needs to be written down. Yeah. Yeah, our minds
can't be trusted. And then I did some research about
our brain strength that when grieving and our memory is
really shot. I found my cell phone in my refrigerator. Yeah,
oh wow, when did that happen? Yeah, exactly, But people
(34:13):
can relate it happens, So write them down. And there's
some things as simple that we don't think of as
things like bank account passwords and even our like you
call it their online presence or Facebook, Twitter, it is that.
I mean, these are really simple things. I mean, for example, um,
(34:35):
with your digital presence, unless that's organized before you go,
then you are still going to be alive digitally, so
to speak. Now, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But
what I'm wanting to give people as a choice, so
you have to think about it beforehand. What is it
you would want? You know? Well, then it becomes well,
(34:58):
I'm not going to be here, so what we'd be
found they want or what would the friends want, you know,
And that's where the discussion comes in. But it does
have to be taken care of because otherwise, afterwards it's
really difficult to get those accounts closed down if you
haven't taken care of it with a named person beforehand.
And that's all it needs to happen. Yes, it's important
to those that live on after us, But what I'm
(35:21):
really getting Jane, is how important it is for us
in our quality of life. Now. I know what it's
like to live life with a to do list that's
a mile long. Right now, there's no joy, there's no freedom,
there's all the I should be doing this. It's like
(35:41):
a ball and chain. And once I start crossing off
those things, there's a sense of freedom. And if we
can cross off the list, the ultimate thing on our
to do list, think of the freedom to live life. Yeah,
it does work like that. And of course you know,
once you get some freedom and you usually fill it
up again, but then that's another issue. But at least
(36:05):
this end of things is taken care of, and you know,
it is a very selfless act. Let's be really clear
about this, because you're not going to be around to
appreciate how grateful your friends and family will be. Now
you might be able to experience that from the other side,
so to speak, but in this body, here and now,
you're not going to be And that's why so many
(36:25):
people say, why would I do any of this. I'm
going to be dead, I won't be here. It doesn't matter,
it don't care. You know, that's quite a common reaction
until people really start to think about the effect of
that mess and model left behind, Like when you check
out of the hotel, if things haven't been left tidy,
then there is a mess for other people to sort through.
(36:47):
And and because people are grieving, that's made doubly difficult,
even troubly difficult. And I really do believe one thing
in common by everybody who's listening right now is we've
experienced that grief and we know that pain, and then
talk about the unfinished business as well. But I also
(37:07):
knew that one of the characteristics I think of being
human is we love to be generous, and who doesn't
like to give a gift at the holidays, right, you know,
it feels better to give than receive. And if we
can look at completing our before I go plan as
a gift we're giving someone, it might be the way
(37:29):
to get it done, as opposed to I've got to
get this done. No, it's a gift. You know. Think
about your children or your grandchildren or whoever it's going
to be, the executiveutor whatever. I mean. They're gonna be
missing you. That's going to be all that grief. But
to give them the ultimate gift of saying, oh they
had everything handled, that was easy. Yeah. Well, one of
(37:50):
the little phrases that I have is to say that
a good end of life plan is a great going
away present, and it is. It's true. And there's another
it's actually about a good end of life plan, which
isn't on the on the quiz. It's about creating your
living legacy what I call your living legacy. Now that's
how you want to be remembered. And I call it
(38:12):
a living legacy because it's never your legacy until you died.
So while you're still alive and you're creating it, whatever
it is, then that's why it's still living. But this
is something like that you have a choice over. Traditionally
that might be simpler things like what their favorite recipe
was or what was the perfume that they always wore.
(38:34):
Because it's these sorts of things that the people afterwards
will choose to really evoke your presence or evoke a memory,
and that can be incredibly valuable. And that doesn't even
begin to mention some of the adventures and learnings that
you've had throughout your life that can be really valuable
(38:54):
for people. And we don't always know that when we're alive.
But I'm on a mission to encourage people to do
their living legacies because those afterwards are so grateful usually
that's very nice. I don't have but a couple of
recordings of my dad's voice. Even speaking with my mom
not too long ago, she started telling me stories that
(39:16):
I've never heard before, but just to have some of
those things may be recorded, Yes, exactly. And we must
underestimate how much people like to know about the person.
We usually discover this at the funeral when there's a
eulogy of some kind. Let's take our last break now,
(39:37):
and when we come back. You had said there's some
components and you had some stories about the afterlife. You're
listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart
Radio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal podcast network. Did
(40:02):
you know that tests that could save your life from
cancer are now available for a little or no cost
thanks to the healthcare law called the Affordable Care Act.
Let this be the year you get screening tests that
can detect cancer early when it's most treatable. Don't let
concerns get in the way. Talk to a doctor or
other medical professional to learn more about the best cancer
(40:23):
testing options for you. Happy New Year from your friends
here at I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM.
(41:02):
Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sad Shamplain
and we're with Jane Duncan Rogers. Jane, what are these components?
You're talking about the eight components of a good death
of life plan, because I organize them into eight components
to try and make it a bit simpler to think
about it. Because obviously there's the legals and we've talked
about those. There's the last days and we talked about
(41:23):
that as well. There is the funeral. When people think
about death, they usually think about wills, and funerals. That's
what they know about, but you might not know that.
Actually don't have to have a funeral. You don't need
to have a funeral, really, but yeah, you don't need
to have a funeral. What you do need to do
is the body needs to be disposed of legally, according
(41:43):
to the law in your country or wherever it is.
The fourth one is the living legacy, which we've talked about.
The fifth one the digital life. We've we've also talked
a little bit about that. There is the household. Now
the household others things like how much stuff have you
got in your house that might need to be sorted through?
(42:06):
Usually this provokes quite a few laughs as well, because
a lot of people have a lot of stuff, and
you know, once you're no longer there, somebody's going to
have to go through it or it will just all
get taken away by how is clearance? Person. If you
don't want that to happen, then you need to take
care of some things. That's from the decluttering point of view,
(42:27):
But there are other things as well, which for example,
maybe ten days or something after my husband died, I
was on my own in the house for the first time,
and a friend had been visiting, and I had just
taken her to the airport actually, and I was coming back,
was coming back to the house on my own, sat
down to switch on the television. It came on, but
(42:48):
not at the screen that I was familiar with, so
it clearly she had been doing something with it. And
could I get it to the screen that showed the
guide with all the different programs. I couldn't do it,
and I was beside myself with grief. I was just
in flunts of tears because that's the sort of thing
(43:09):
that Philip would have done right in our house. You know.
He was the one who was a techy one. He
knew about all that sort of stuff. And I didn't
have a clue, and I couldn't, even in my muddeled
thinking state, get it to where I wanted it to be. Now,
that could have been taken care of if he had
simply maybe written down a few steps to take, because
(43:30):
you know, I looked at the manual, but you know
what manuals are like these days, and I know exactly.
So that's the kind of thing detail that you don't
necessarily think about that can be very very useful, I e.
Things like how does the household run, how do the
machines run? What happens? It's not unusual even in this
(43:52):
day and age for many men not to know about
much about what goes on in the kitchen and all.
That sounds a bit sexist, but let's maybe say partners.
But often I found its men because we are dealing
at they say it's mostly older people who are dying,
and that's how they've been brought up in that generation.
So that's the sixth one. And then I've mentioned also
(44:14):
the the last two of the components, and that is
to share it with somebody else, to talk about it beforehand,
and also to get it down in writing. Really important
all those areas, and that's what I call a good
end of life plan. Excellent. And I'm thinking in addition
to for those who are listening right now, we are
people interested in the afterlife. And I know for me,
(44:38):
just to answer my own question, I'm going on and
I would love to contact my loved ones from beyond,
whether it's a certain kind of a sign or I'm
interested in electronic voice phenomena, So I'm going to try
this or here is a secret code that go to
a medium, and this is what I'm going to try
to say, we could lighten up. This is just speculation, Jane,
(45:02):
but just this has been something that I've been interested in.
And your loved ones might not know that. You know
from where you're going to sit in the hereafter. You know,
maybe it's what part you're going to play in their life. Sure,
I'll be with you when you quiet your mind. I'll
be whispering in your ear, giving you love, cheering you on.
It's lovely. I really like that. Not because I think
(45:26):
many of us in that listen to the show and
interested in afterlife things. It's still not mainstream conversation. And
many of us have people in our life that when
eyebrow goes up when we start talking about this afterlife
thing or reading a book, and to be able to
be honest with our loved ones in whatever workbook that
(45:50):
we have being left here it is, this is my belief.
I'm sticking around. I'll be there to cheer you on.
I'm specially interested in the swarm of communication or this
kind of sign and keep your eyes out for a
cardinal or a butterfly or whatever. Yeah, that sort of thing. Yes, Yes,
(46:10):
and I'm a great I'm a great believer in signs,
and I definitely had my share of them after both
my parents died and my husband as well. And somehow
you just have you just know, you know, you just
know that that's them communicating. Can I ask a couple
of the signs that you've got? Sure? Yeah? My husband.
It was about maybe three weeks after after he had died,
(46:31):
and I was out in the woods walking. I was
incredibly angry that this had happened at all. I didn't
know where he was, and I really wanted to know
where he was. I couldn't bear that, and so I
was shouting out, where are you? Where are you? And
then about half an hour later, I was walking past
the little cops of going through a field, walking past
the cops of trees, and I felt a very strong
(46:54):
pool to go in the middle of them. Now, I've
never had that before. I walked past this cops millions
of times, and in the middle I sat down on
a broken log and I looked up and I saw
a dead tree with woodpecker holes in it. Now I
burst into tears at that moment because I knew that
the woodpecker holes were the sign. Because we had been
(47:17):
campinging in California in the Capra van one night in
a particular place where we were surrounded in by pine
trees that had woodpecker holes. We'd had a long conversation
about it, and we'd even I'd brought back some a
little tiny bit of bark with a hole in it,
so I knew that I had been guided there by him,
(47:40):
with him telling me that he was okay, I know it. Yes,
It's lovely, isn't it. And then there was another one
with my mom. She loved hedgehogs, and she knew there
was a hedgehog in her garden, but she hadn't seen
it for ages months. She'd seen it once. I think
it was maybe two or three days after she died.
I was out in the garden and I in the
(48:03):
middle of the day, and hedgehog's only come out at night.
But in the middle of the day I turned around
and there was this hedgehog right in the middle of
the loan, just sitting there. It wasn't curled up in
a bowl, it was just sitting there, and I sort
of crouched down and looked at it, and I thought,
this is Mom was so sweet, And then it just
(48:23):
sort of toddled off into the undergrowth. But it was like, oh,
my goodness, she really is there. You know. It was
really lovely. That's really nice, really nice. There's a my
aunt's friends, good friends. Father had passed away not too
long ago, and he was a big lover of cardinals,
and there were seven of them in the family left,
(48:45):
and so they were all sitting in dad's favorite room,
which is a little screened in porch, and seven cardinals
came red cardinals. So they must have all been the
mails into the tree right by the window. Oh when
does that happen? Exactly? So a skeptical mind could say coincidence, woodpeckers, hedgehogs,
(49:08):
But let your heart decide, because these are signs. And well,
you know, I said after I said to my niece,
my mom's granddaughter. She was aged nine at the time.
I said to her, I told her about the hedgehog,
and immediately she said that was granny. So it's like, yes,
(49:30):
I didn't suggest that too, she just knew it as well.
It was lovely. That's great. I see my dad's name
a lot. His name is John, and I will just
glance up and it'll be on someone's license plate. Or
sign on a restaurant or something. And so maybe back
in the end of life work books like I'm going
(49:50):
to put my name places, you know, beyond the lookout,
you know, because those kind of things that really give
hope to the person that's left behind. Absolutely absolutely hope.
And this soothing and comforting and all of that is
really good. Yeah. And I can't tell you, Jane, how
many people that I've interviewed that had near death experiences
(50:12):
and things. And I have this vision of when we
take our last breath, close our eyes here on earth,
we open them in a place and it is like
crossing the finish line. Our loved ones are there, our
pets are there. Everybody's young and healthy and sharing us on.
So to leave a few words behind two in the
(50:34):
workbook of be watching over you. This is what your
life is for. And I will be right there when
you cross the finish line, be the first one to
greet you, or um moments before you go. You know,
I'll be there to take you to the next place
something like that, because those are things that can be
held onto and really help someone in their time of grief. Beautiful. Yes,
(50:57):
So now I take my own advice let's see. Well,
I'm committed to Jane. Thank you so much for being
our guest today. It's a pleasure at this I love
that you love it because it's kind of, I don't
want to say, a taboo subject, but it's hard for
people to think about. And I can only pray that
(51:20):
we've talked about the reality of the afterlife so much
that this is the group that's going to take the
advice and go forward. Before I Go solutions dot Com, Yeah,
website names of your book Before I Go, The Essential
Guide to creating a good end of life plan. And
I'm also inspired by Gifted by Grief, a true story
(51:43):
of cancer, loss and rebirth. Yeah, there's probably a few
more stories of signs and visions and things in that
in that one. Wow. Well, Jane, thanks again for being
our guest. Thank you, it was an absolutely a pleasure.
And for our listeners, thank you so much for listening.
I know this doesn't seem like a traditional show, but
(52:05):
I do believe if we can cross off our list
of things to do this one big thing, which is
our end of life stuff, we can live a whole
different kind of life. And wouldn't it be great to
live a life, that you're really free to do what
you want to do and you don't have this big
(52:27):
thing hanging over your shoulders. So that's why I invited
Jane here today as a reminder. Our home base is
we Don't Die dot Com. Lots of new classes, of course,
our Sunday gathering and come just join us for something.
If you'd like to read a copy of my book
or listen to the audio book, just go to the
(52:49):
store at we Don't Die dot com, scroll down and
use coupon code free. Be my guest. So I'm Sanders
Champlain in a big, warm thank you for listening to
Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart Radio and
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. And if you
(53:21):
like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, wait until
you hear the next one. Thank you for listening to
the Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a m paranormal
podcast Network.
Host
Sandra Champlain
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