All Episodes

June 7, 2022 • 36 mins

As Karen continues putting the pieces together, she finds out about an addendum report that was not included in the original files. She also discovers that there may have been evidence tampering by one of the original detectives. William Clarke's friend and alibi, James Weir, goes on the run. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
There had to be a strong motivation you pay me
up or else it could be one of two things,
total incompetence, or there can be an element of corruption,
the murder, the robbery for whatever their motivation was. If
he did have a debt and he needed to pay
it back, that will not be disgusting. That I would

(00:24):
be absolutely to get curate at the mention of the
Carborne there were things that were just best left buried.
Welcome back to Shattered Souls The car Barn Murders. I'm
your host, Karen Smith. This is episode twelve. This podcast

(00:44):
may contain graphic language and it's not suitable for children.
Previously on The car Barn Murders, William Clark tried and
failed to kill his girlfriend Mary Branch. Mary confided in
Francis Gregory and said that if she found that Clark

(01:08):
had been seeing another woman, Edith Small, behind her back,
she would tell everything she knew to the police. Days later,
Clark drove Mary to a desolate gristmill bridge and tossed
her over the side into the Patapsco River. William Clark
was sentenced to eight years in the Maryland State Penitentiary
for attempted murder for reasons known only to Mary Branch,

(01:33):
she took him back from his prison cell. Clark and
Mary exchanged love letters on an almost daily basis. According
to police psychologist doctor Joy Crossin, their relationship was predicated
on mutual dependency and manipulation. Clark needed Mary to secure
him a new attorney and help with various tasks from

(01:54):
the outside. Mary knew everything that Clark had done and
used that to hold sway over him while still heavily
depending on him and feeling safe and secure enough while
he was behind bars. Let me take a pause right here.
I have to keep reminding myself that you're hearing this
for the first time, and all of these names and

(02:15):
situations can get confusing. I get it. There's a lot
to process. But here's some good news. At this point,
my investigation is going to start linking the people involved
in the Carborn murders. So to avoid me having to
remind you over and over again about who's who, here's
a quick summary to refresh your memory. More names will

(02:36):
come into the story as I move forward, but these
are the main people to keep on the front burner.
Emery Smith and James Mitchell, the victims, William Clark, my
primary suspect, Robert Jenny, and Walter Oliver his accomplices. Those
are the three men I suspect to be directly involved

(02:56):
in the robbery and murders. Francis Gregory. He was found
on a bench in the trainman's room on the morning
of the murders. James Weir, William Clark's friend in alibi.
Mary Branch, William Clark's girlfriend she survived in attempted murder
by Clark, Edith Small, Clark's other girlfriend, Ernest Brown. The

(03:20):
d C Metropolitan Police Superintendent, Melvin Hazen, the d C
Commission President. The District Metro Police detectives that were involved
in the investigation were Frank Brass, Robert Barrett, and Richard McCarty.
The Montgomery County detectives who had the lead were Theodore Bolton,

(03:42):
Leroy Rogers, and James mccauliffe. The Baltimore detective was Stuart Deal.
He wrote the reports that were found and delivered to
me halfway through my investigation. Remembering those names will help
you keep things straight, Okay, moving on, William Clark continued
to write to various people from his prison cell, including

(04:05):
his friends with political and monetary influence. In a letter
dated February sixteenth, nineteen thirty six, Clark sent a letter
to Mary Branch and told her to call carter Glass's
office and find out where one of his contacts was
living and to send Clark the address. I found out

(04:25):
that carter Glass was a United States Senator. He was
also the chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee and a
segregationist from Virginia. How would a two bit criminal like
William Clark have access to a United States Senator and
think that any one of that caliber would step in
on his behalf. I grew up just outside of Washington,

(04:47):
d c. And at no point did I or any
one I knew have a direct contact with a politician
of that caliber. There's no mention of Senator carter Glass
in any other letters, so clark request must have fallen
by the wayside. But it still piqued my curiosity as
to how William Clark knew the name of anyone associated

(05:09):
with the United States Senator. William Clark wrote to several
other people as well, trying to get money, cigarettes, and
help to get out of prison wherever he could find it.
One of his letters was addressed to Neiva Berardinelli. She
turned out to be James Weir's sister. James Weir was

(05:29):
Clark's friend who allegedly went to the Gaiety Theater with
Clark and Mary Branch on the Sunday night before the
murders were was also arrested with Clark for a robbery
in October of nineteen thirty four. Were sister, Neiva Berardinelli
was married and had just opened the Modern School of Beauty,
employing their two sisters, Nettie and Sally. According to William

(05:53):
Clark's police interview, he off handedly mentioned that James Weir
had a half interest in the shank Old Shop beauty parlor.
Clark's other girlfriend, Edith Small, was a beautician at Landsburgh's
department store. What was with all these beauty parlors and
the people associated with this case? Recalling William Clark's statement

(06:15):
to d C Detective Frank Brass on the day of
the murders, Clark said that he went to James Weir's
apartment on Sunday night and he told Weir's sister that
he was going to a show at the Gayety Theater.
That was likely either Sally or Nettie, since phone records
from nineteen thirty five showed that they were living with
James Weir on Harvard Street. Niva Berardinelli lived with her

(06:37):
husband Edward just down the street. James Weir, his sisters,
and his parents were all living together at fourteen eleven
Harvard Street. So if everyone was together in the same
place and Clark knew that address, why would William Clark
right to Neva Berardinelli instead of writing directly to his
friend James Weir. The most obvious reason is that Aimes

(07:00):
Weir had been implicated with Clark in a robbery, and
Weir had been questioned by the police after the Carbarn murders,
even though his interview totaled two short sentences. Maybe it
was safer for William Clark to write to weird sister Neva,
but it wouldn't have mattered even if William Clark had
written to James Weir directly, because James Weir no longer

(07:21):
lived on Harvard Street by June of nineteen thirty five,
during the time of Clark's trial and sentenced to prison
for the attempted murder of Mary Branch, James Weir high
tailed it out of Dodge on June eleven, nine thirty five,
James Weir abruptly joined the Marines and was sent to

(07:43):
Paris Island for boot camp. James Weir was eventually stationed
in pay Ping, China. While he couldn't have gone further
away from Washington, d C. Than that, it sure seemed
like a hasty decision and it made me wonder what
the motivating factor was to make him vamose out of
d C. In the same week that William Clark was
sentenced for attempted murder, James Weir half owned the Shingle

(08:06):
Shop hair salon that by all accounts was doing just fine.
He left the hair salon and his entire family behind
to suddenly join the military. Was James Weir running from
the law or was he running from William Clark? I
found another interview in the new stack of files that
might add a little bit of clarity about James Weir.

(08:30):
We're had a friend in town on the weekend of
the Carborn murders, and this man was also taken to
the police station to be questioned. His name was Joseph Goddard.
Here's what goddard statement said January two. Joseph g Goddard,
aged one, Williamson, North Carolina. We arrested this man as

(08:50):
a suspect in murder case at one a m. January.
He was sleeping in the same room with James Weir
at fourteen eleven Harvard Street, apartment number one. In his room,
we also found a Western Electric telephone in Goddard's grip,
and he claims he got it from James Weird. He
states that he arrived here from Williamson January fifteenth, driving

(09:12):
a Dodge Sedan. We questioned him along the time of
the murder and he states that he arrived home Sunday,
January about ten thirty pm and James came in about
eleven fifteen pm. And the next morning, he claims he
took Nettie and Sally to work about eight forty five am,
and then he took James to the shingle shop on
f Street. He arrived there about nine oh five am

(09:33):
and then took James to the scissor sharpener in front
of the city Library. Joseph Goddard substantiated the fact that
James Weir was home by eleven fifteen pm on Sunday night, January.
The note that the detectives made about a Western electric
telephone in Goddard's bag was a little odd. There was

(09:55):
only one reason for Goddard to have a phone, especially
a Western trick. It was part of the teleflash system
used for the horse racing wire racket. Instead of being
used for person to person calls like a normal phone,
these were part of a radio broadcast system to commercial businesses,
they acted like a shortwave radio, and it was a

(10:16):
provider of horse racing results and odds to taverns, bars
and bookie joints. It was a major source of revenue
to the phone companies, who were paid off to keep
it quiet. I detailed one case earlier with a deal
between the phone company, the newspaper, and the District Attorney's office.
The phone company promised to cut the lines in order
to avoid criminal charges or fines. On that note, remember

(10:39):
the letter that Robert Janny wrote to his friend Nulli,
a foreman. Nulia's husband, Gilbert worked at the horse track
and he was friends with Walter Oliver and Horace Davis,
the Dale informant. It sounded to me like James Weir
had a hand in the horse racing wire racket and
William Clark admitted to frequenting the race track two. The

(11:01):
horse track and the wire racket seemed like a common
thread between Robert Janny, Walter Oliver, and William Clark. To
summarize my recent findings, James Weir left the shingle shop,
Harri Salon and his family behind and was off with
the Marines. His sister, Niva Berardinelli opened the Modern School

(11:23):
of Beauty. Edith Small worked at Landsburg's beauty shop. By
the fall of nineteen thirty five, William Clark and Robert
Channy were in prison together. By February of nineteen thirty six,
Robert Janny's daughter Josephine had been placed in the Kelso
Home orphanage and was no longer living with Lillian Janny,

(11:43):
who dropped off the radar completely after getting threats from
an unknown man. William Clark's wife, Viola and their three
children had moved out of his parents house, but were
still keeping in close contact. Mary Branch was still recovering
from her injuries and moving from place to place. At
one point, Mary moved in with Clark's sister Helen, and

(12:06):
ran a rooming house for an elderly lady. Mary Branch
confided in Francis Gregory about Clark's planning of hold ups
and said that if she found that Clark had been
seeing Edith Small behind her back, she would tell everything
she knew to the police. A few days later, Clark
tried to kill her. Francis Gregory gave a rambling statement

(12:26):
to the detectives, and his final words were that he
thought Clark could have been in on the Carborn job.
The detectives also suspected Clark was involved, but for some reason,
there was zero follow up investigation on him, or on
Robert Chenney, or on Walter Oliver. As I was putting
all of this together and assembling the links between all

(12:48):
of these people, I went back and read the checklist
of random notes apparently made by Detective Bolton. They said
that William Clark and Edith Small paid twenty eight dollars
for furniture, and that Edith had gone to the prison
to visit Clark. A subsequent note stated that Clark and
Edith had also put five hundred dollars down on a

(13:12):
house in Chevy Chase. William Clark had five hundred bucks
for a deposit on a house he didn't pay alimony
to Viola, He didn't support his children. Mary Branch had
been financially floating him. He sold his Capital Transit uniform
for cash, and he didn't have a job. Where, oh

(13:34):
where did William Clark get five hundred dollars? William Clark's
interview with police ended up having a lot more clues
in it than I thought. If you need to go
back and hear the whole thing for yourself, it's an
episode nine. The detectives asked Clark if he had a car,
and he said that he loaned it to a friend,

(13:54):
Frank Sherman, on January three, two and a half weeks
before the robbery and murders. That was a lie. Clark
didn't loan it to Sherman. Clark ode Sherman a hundred
and sixty five dollars and gave him the car as collateral.
Clark told Sherman that the bank note was only three

(14:16):
hundred dollars. Sherman figured the car was worth four hundred
and fifty to five hundred dollars and it would be
a good way to finally get paid since Clark had
already written him several bad checks. Frank Sherman found out
that there was six hundred fifty dollars due on that car,
so it was already three hundred and fifty dollars in
hawk from a previous loan that Clark had taken out

(14:38):
on it. In addition to calling William Clark a crooked sucker,
Frank Sherman also told the detectives that on the Tuesday
or Wednesday, the week before the murders, William Clark came
to his house in Baltimore at one thirty in the
morning along with three other men. One of them was

(14:58):
Clark's cousin Benny Anson. Too strong arms Shoreman to give
that car back. Sherman said he didn't have it and
it was up in the country. Clark and the others
acted like heavies and pressed him. Clark told Schuerman that
he desperately needed that car back. Sherman told them he
didn't have it. They eventually left without the car, but Mr.

(15:20):
Sherman gladly showed Detective Volton that he had it hidden
in a private garage. Volton let Sherman keep it. William
Clark was in serious debt. He owed Frank Sherman a
hundred and sixty five dollars and gave him a car
that was three hundred fifty bucks in arrears as collateral

(15:40):
that he tried to get back five or six days
before the murders. Mary Branch said that Clark had been
in trouble for failing to pay alimony to Viola. Mary
also said she paid for the taxi to the Gaiety Theater,
paid for Clark's ticket, had paid money on that car
at Sherman's, and had been feeding Clark and gave him
a place to stay at her apartment. Holy shit, where

(16:04):
there's smoke, there's fire. Who else did William Clark o
money too? Were his visits to the horse track the
source of his financial mess? Did William Clark have a
gambling problem? It's time for some deductive reasoning and links
using the information from earlier episodes. If you've been following
along closely, you'll make the connections. Link Number one, William

(16:28):
Clark didn't have access to a car on the night
of the murders. It was at Frank Scherman's. If Clark,
Mary Branch and James were really did go to the
Gaiety Theater on Sunday night, they took a taxi. Let's
go back to eyewitness Ernest Carter, the man who was
interviewed by Detective Jack Toomey back in ninety seven. Ernest

(16:51):
Carter said that he was waiting at Dan's Hot Dog
Stand across the street from the Chevy Chase Lake Ticket
office when he heard shouting and gun shots and saw
two men run out of the office and get into
a Green Buick, which went northbound on Connecticut Avenue. A
Green Buick was the only stolen car that was never
recovered during the time of the murders. It was stolen

(17:14):
from the area of fifteen and Irving Streets in d
C at around ten o'clock on Sunday night. About that location.
I've done geographic profiling on this case to play specific
people and events at certain places all across the district.
It gave me a visual map to reference, and the
first thing I saw was the proximity of the stolen

(17:35):
Green Buick's location to the apartments of William Clark and
James Weir. It was only two blocks away. Clark didn't
have a car. The stolen Buick was within walking distance
from Gerard Street and Harvard Street. That car was never recovered.
Link number two Dan's hot Dog Stand one of the

(17:57):
transit company employees, w See Moore, told detective Volton that
he saw Mildred Oliver, the wife of Walter Oliver's cousin
Douglas that helped to run the speakeasy downtown. She was
hanging out at Dan's Hot Dog Stand in the fall
of nineteen thirty four. William Clark was working at chevy

(18:17):
Chase Lake as a conductor at that time, which means
that Clark and Walter Oliver likely did know each other
and Mildred Oliver was there to see Clark. I think
there was a lot more going on at Dan's Hot
Dog Stand than just slinging Weenies, Mustard and relish, but
I'll get back to that later. That's just another link
in the chain between Clark, Jenny, and Oliver. Link number three.

(18:41):
On that same page of random notes I've been referencing,
there was a mention about a man named Swells. William
Clark pawned a watch from the Hot Shops robbery to
this man Swells. The notes also said that William Clark
stopped at a cut rate gas stage at Fourth and
End Streets northwest to see this man Swales on the

(19:05):
night he took Mary Branch for a ride to the
bridge at Ilchester. Swales had come to see Clark several
times at chevy Chase Lake during the month he worked
for Capital Transit. Swales was a black man who lived
in the area of Fourth and End Streets. That gave
me just enough information to research. His full name was

(19:27):
John Swales and he lived at four twelve End Street, Northwest.
He was a taxi driver and a mechanic. Follow me here.
When William Clark got back to the apartment on Gerard
Street after his attempted murder of Mary Branch, a taxi
driver was contacted by Benny Johnson to deliver the news

(19:49):
about Mary's survival. Would Benny Johnson trust just any random
taxi driver to relay such an important message. Benny Johnson
went with William Clark to Frank Schuerman's to try to
strong armis car back, and Johnson was the contact to
get that urgent message to Clark, so obviously they were

(20:09):
pretty close as cousins. Could the taxi driver who Benny
Johnson entrusted with that information have been Clark's associate, John Swales?
Why would William Clark stopped to see him at a
gas station on the night he took Mary Branch out
to killer. This was by far the most frustrating part

(20:30):
of my investigation. I was still left with more questions
than answers. Even though I had three really strong suspects,
Probable cause wasn't going to be enough to close this case,
and I knew that I needed more. I needed beyond
a reasonable doubt, a pretty pink bow, and I was stuck.

(20:50):
I spent six months, ten to twelve hours a day,
every single day, going through all of these documents, researching
every person named in the file, finding links between them,
their addresses, their histories, newspaper articles that mentioned them in
their crimes, or their social acquaintances. Anything I could dig
up to try to put this case to bed once
and for all. But I kept coming up short. There

(21:14):
was a major link I was missing, and I had
no idea what or who it was. By nineteen thirty eight,
the Carbarn case was shelved, and I thought forgotten until
I had a chat with Jack to me. During one
of our conversations, Jack off handedly asked me if I
had the nineteen fifty four addendum that Detective Voulton had written.

(21:40):
Uh no, I sure don't. There was no report from
nineteen fifty four in the paperwork I received from Montgomery County,
so Jack emailed me a copy from his files. The
nineteen fifty four addendum was only two and a half
pages long, written by Captain Volton, and another page was
written by Inspector James mcculloff. In the twenty years since

(22:03):
the Carborn murders, both of them had moved quite high
up in the ranks of the Montgomery County Police Department.
I had to read this new report four or five
times to believe what I was seeing. I tossed the
pages on my desk and I went outside to think
about it, what it meant, and how I was going
to find the people named and not named. In Captain

(22:24):
Bolton's words, there was a point in this investigation where
I thought I might have enough circumstantial evidence against William Clark,
Robert Jenny, and Walter Oliver to close the case. But
I was wrong. There was so much more to this story,
and honestly, I was just getting started again. Jack Toomey

(22:46):
loves to tell stories about his time on the street
of Montgomery County, and we've had a lot of fun
trading copspeak stuff that only other officers would really understand.
But one story that he told me hit me sideways
because I couldn't understand the motivation behind it, and frankly,
Jack didn't understand it either when it happened. Here's Jack's story.

(23:06):
In nine, the department decided to publish a year book
about the seventy fifth anniversary of the department or something,
and that Anohing Detective and I were assigned to locate
as many old timers as we could. You know, old
time austers is good. One day we made an appointment
with Colonel mccauloff, who had been retired now fourteen years

(23:29):
or so, and we went to his house when we
talked about old time and when he came on and
all they had was motorcycles and how they got their
calls from a blinking red light that was posted on
telephone poles in various parts of the county. And I
then switched to Gears and asked him about the car
barn kick because I knew he had a lot to

(23:50):
do it. He said that will not be discussing it,
as he absolutely became curious and upset at the mention
of the car barn murder. I didn't why let it drop?
And I say, do not know why James mccauliffe, Theodore Bolton,

(24:12):
and Leroy Rogers had busted their asses for two years
trying to solve the Carborn case. That was obvious. What
also became obvious to me is that I think they
could have solved it back in nineteen thirty six. But
why didn't they? Inspector mccauliffe or is he preferred to
be called Colonel mccauliffe got incensed at the mention of

(24:36):
the Carborn case, with no explanation as to why. There
had to be a really good reason for him to
get that angry when a case was simply brought up
as a subject to include in a retrospective book about
the Montgomery County Police Department. Anyone who's worked enough hard
cases has some emotions left over. God I did an

(24:56):
entire first season about it, but never would I forb
bit a case from simply being mentioned in my presence,
no matter how badly I felt about it. Something really
got under mccauliff's skin about these murders. I think the
nineteen fifty four addendum has the answers. Captain Volton retired
in nineteen forty seven, but the Carborn case never left

(25:19):
his mind, and he kept in contact with his friends
who were still on the department. He also kept in
contact with his confidential informants see eyes that aren't mentioned
anywhere in the original case file. In nineteen fifty four,
Volton came out of retirement when one of his informants
contacted him out of the blue. In his follow up

(25:41):
report from that gear, he began it by writing this
August thirty one, nineteen fifty four, additional information in reference
to the two murders that occurred at Chevy Chase, Lake
Carbarn on January twenty one, nineteen thirty five. The following
information was received from a strictly confidential source for Captain

(26:02):
Theodore Volton, retired of the Montgomery County Police Department. The
source of this information can never be disclosed and will
not be divulged under any circumstances. Bolton's informant must have
provided some really credible information for him to put that
caveat in his report. There's so much new information to

(26:25):
unpack in this addendum. I'm going to take it step
by step. Starting in nineteen eight, when I thought the
case had been shelf for good the Carbarn case was
still being worked sporadically at that point, and DC detectives
Frank Brass, Richard McCarty, and Robert Barrett were the points
of contact in the district and were assigned to help Volton,

(26:47):
Rogers and McAuliffe with those angles. Frank Brass had done
numerous interviews during the first part of the investigation, including
William Clark, Mary Branch and Francis Gregory. Robert Barrett and
Richard McCarty stayed in the background and they weren't mentioned
very often in the case notes from nineteen thirty five
and thirty six, but Richard McCarty's name was all over

(27:11):
the nineteen fifty four report, so apparently he had been
more involved back then than I originally thought. By nineteen
fifty four, Robert Barrett had retired after becoming the superintendent
of the District Metro Police. Barrett's tenure as chief was
filled with corruption. This is directly from the d C

(27:33):
Metro Police official website quote. Superintendent Barrett and the police
department became the focus of wide ranging investigations into gambling,
kickbacks and narcotics dealings. Superintendent Barrett became the focal point
of that investigation, and after complaining of poor health, he
was retired in nineteen fifty one. His life outside of

(27:56):
the department was filled with speculation, as he neglected to
appeared to testify to the Commission, and when he did appear,
he refused to answer any questions. However, he remained under
suspicion and in nineteen fifty seven was indicted for federal
income tax evasion. Just like Superintendent Ernest Brown before him

(28:17):
and Commission President Melvin Hazen, Robert Barrett refused to answer
any questions from Congress about corruption, kickbacks, and the dirty
deals going on in the district. Robert Barrett died in
nineteen sixties six. His obituary read a twenty six year
veteran of the police Department. The controversial figure retired as

(28:40):
chief in nineteen fifty one while an investigation of his
finances was underway by a Senate crime committee. As corrupt
as Robert Barrett was, his coworker Richard McCarty's involvement in
the Carborn case was more important for my investigation. According
to Volton's n teen fifty four addendum, Richard McCarty had

(29:03):
been promoted to captain on the DC Police Force. Bolton
recalled that McCarty was a detective sergeant in nineteen thirty five,
assigned to the Number ten precinct with Frank Brass. According
to the addendum, Richard McCarty provided crucial information about the
Carborn case three years after the murders. In nineteen thirty eight.

(29:28):
McCarty told Bolton that he did an independent investigation on
William Clark in nineteen thirty five. Inside of either a
garage or the basement of Clark's apartment on Gerard Street,
Richard McCarty found a bottle of anesthesia. This was news
to me and a Bolton, apparently, and it was nowhere

(29:50):
to be found in the nineteen thirty five or thirty
six file. The only information in the original notes was
a quick one off that said they searched Clark's apart.
It meant after he waltzed into police headquarters and nothing
was found. Apparently that wasn't true. Richard McCarty found a
bottle of anesthesia and Volton hadn't been notified about it

(30:12):
until nineteen thirty eight. The report continued and said that
McCarty reasoned back in nineteen thirty five when he found
this evidence and never reported it. That William Clark could
have knocked Mary Branch out before committing the robbery and
murders and returned to the apartment before she woke up.
Richard McCarty also suspected William Clark, but he never said anything. Okay,

(30:40):
toxicology was not my strong suit in grad school, so
I needed an expert on this because even though it
seemed like a ridiculous notion that Clark could have had
some kind of bottle of anesthesia, which to me meant chloroform,
but that Mary Branch would have stayed unconscious for six
or seven hours, then again, Clark did try to kill
her in a really cruel and horrible way. For an explanation,

(31:03):
I called my previous professor, Dr. Oliver Grundman, the man
who patiently walked me through forensic toxicology at the University
of Florida. Oliver Grundman, I am professor at the University
of Florida College of Pharmacy. When we find a bottle
of anesthesia in nineteen thirty five, you gave me a
couple of different options of what that might be. You

(31:26):
really wanted to debunk this whole Hollywood mess that you know,
you put this cloth over somebody's face and they automatically
pass out, and it doesn't really work that way. So
can you talk about that and debunk sort of the
Hollywood stories that we've all seen over and over again. Yeah, certainly. So.
They are basically four stages of anastasia that we kind

(31:48):
of can define. And the first one is kind of
the sedative stage, where folks are feeling kind of dizzy
and feeling the dated, but not really pass out entirely
so they don't lose consciousness. The second stage is actually
where somebody loses consciousness, but the autonomous nervous system gets
activated and people might throw up, people the muscles might

(32:13):
actually fight, getting sedated and losing muscle control. And that's
kind of the stage that we want to pass as
quickly as possible with modern anesthetics. So we want to
get to the third stage, and that anesthetic stage itself
where we have muscle paralysis, where consciousness laws. That is

(32:33):
the stage where we still have relative good control over breathing,
the cardiovascular system is stable and where the patient can
be relatively well controlled. And then the fourth stages where
we actually lose control of breathing whether the reason becomes
very shallow and where the cardiovascular system often collapses, or

(32:55):
where we often experience very low heart rate, and where
the patient may yet risk of becoming very rhithmic, for example,
and where we might lose the patient. So that that
is the stage that you want to avoid. Now when
we talk about, for example, these inhalable and aesthetics, that
where you will stack in the nineteenth very diethyl ether

(33:15):
chloroform and they like, these agents require a very high concentration.
So just using a handkerchief or something like that and
dumping chloroform over it and putting it over at one's
nose and mouth, you need a very high concentration, very
high saturation in the air in order for somebody to
breathe it in consistently and get them through that second

(33:40):
stage where they resist and where they fit it to
the third stage where they actually lose consciousness and really
slumped down, and that will usually take about ten minutes
or so if you really consistently have that high concentration,
So you really need to soak a handkerchief or or
something like that in that anesthetic. So it's really complicated

(34:02):
to achieve that. Even if William Clark was able to
get Mary Branch into this third stage that you're talking
about of unconsciousness. How long would that last? If we
talk about chloroform or diapo ether coming ether. Unless you
maintain the rank over the mouth, and you again maintain

(34:23):
a very high concentration, it would not last very long.
It would last maybe ten fifteen minutes, I would say
at most. So all of the Hollywood scenes we've watched
and Richard McCarty's anesthesia theory are out the door. But
that doesn't explain why McCarty never reported this evidence to

(34:46):
Bolton in ninety five, and Boulton made a note about
it in his nineteen fifty addendum. It has suggested that
the investigators on this case get a complete report from
now Captain McCarty, Detective Bureau, Washington Police Department. And now
I have to air out a mistake of my own.
Sometimes you can't see the forest through the trees when

(35:08):
things get overwhelming. Somehow, during my multiple readings of the
n case file, I missed a critical piece of the puzzle.
I thought I had taken notes on this particular page,
and apparently I flipped past it a bunch of times.
I actually had overlooked it, but thank god I finally
realized my stupid, stupid mistake. Captain McCarty had a habit

(35:34):
of either not reporting evidence or not collecting it and
turning it in. On another random list of follow up tasks,
Richard McCarty's name was mentioned, and when I finally saw it,
I wanted to spit nails. The note read get gunn
taken of Clark's taken by McCarty from taxi driver named Williams.

(36:00):
Get info from McCarty r E bloody clothes Clark was wearing?
Are you fucking kidding me? If you have information about
the Car Barn murders, go to the Shattered Souls Facebook
page and leave me a message. Opening music by Sam

(36:20):
Johnson at Sam Johnson live dot com. Shattered Souls The
Car Barn Murders is produced by Karen Smith and Angel
Heart Productions
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!

The Breakfast Club

The Breakfast Club

The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!

The Joe Rogan Experience

The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.