Thinking Sideways: Black Knight Satellite

Since the late 50's there have been numerous reports of something circling the earth in a polar orbit, something that was there before we could a satellite into orbit. Theories abound as to what it could be. Alien satellite, space junk, some other space junk, or possibly an alien invitation to visit?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking Sideways. I'm not comte stories of things. We simply
don't know the answer to space, the Final Frontier. We're
thinking sideways the podcast. Okay, wow, best intro ever if

(00:40):
anybody's good future. I am Steve as always, I am
joined by my co host, the orchestro Clap Joe, And
as we did in our lovely musical intro, we are
the t the host of Thinking Sideways. This is getting

(01:02):
all out of control really fast. Yeah, no structure, we
need structures. We do. But just if you don't know
we solved mysteries. We tend to try to solve mysteries.
Show lies about us solving mysteries. He does occasionally. Well,
we have another mystery this week that we're going to
talk about, which is the Black Knights satellite. This story

(01:26):
got suggested to us a long time ago, and I
really apologize to whoever was the first person to suggest
it to us, because I sort of lost your email
and didn't write it down and I don't have your name. Yeah,
Benjamin Uh suggested it a couple of months ago. I

(01:47):
have that written down, so he gets the prize. But
to whoever the other person was, thank you. Maybe maybe
it was Benjamin. I know this. We've this one's been
in the hopper for all long time. We're trying to
get better about writing that stuff down. Yeah, we've been
doing pretty good, but in the beginning we're pretty sloppy. Yeah,
but let's talk about the Black Knights satellite. This. I'm

(02:11):
just gonna preface this right now, which this is one
of those stories that has been told and rehashed and
re told so many times that it is so hard
to get to the roots story that I'm just gonna give. Uh,
I'm just gonna tell kind of the commingled version, which
is what you see on a lot of the places

(02:33):
that you read about it. Come to think of it,
that's kind of seems to be the version of the
story that we tell a lot version, Yeah, the ones
that are all just full of all kinds of fun stuff.
Ye An, yep. So we're we're gonna we're just gonna
go with every little bit that is on here to
tell this story today. According to the lore, the Black

(02:56):
Knights satellite was first discovered by none other Nicola Tesla.
That doesn't surprise me, yep, the one of the Granddaddy's
a science The Granddaddy is he the granddaddy. Ink. Okay,
I think they were. There's older granddaddies. But Tesla did
some amazing He did some amazing stuff. The granddaddy. I'm

(03:17):
not even gonna go there. In eighteen nine nine, Tesla
was using a high voltage radio receiver is what you
would be using, uh, And it was a two hundred
foot tower he was I think he was in Colorado.
He'd gotten funding by one of his major backers to

(03:40):
build this thing. But he was picking up unusual transmissions,
which he believed had to be intelligent because they were
very consistent, they were repeating patterns, and he evidently thought
that they were likely to be extraterrestrial. I know that
he thought that they were intelligent, but I've also seen

(04:02):
that it was said that he believed they were extraterrestrials.
It was coming from space. It was coming from space.
May actually later when we moved in this story, is
gonna do this a bunch. We're gonna do a bunch
of skips in time. We're gonna skip forward to the
nine twenties. Unusual transmissions began being picked up by Ham

(04:26):
radio operators, and they were they were obviously earthly in origin.
Because they were transmissions coming from Earth, but they were
weird and they shouldn't have been picked up where and
when they were picked up. These are something that at
the time no one understood and today we don't really
know what they are or what causes them. But there

(04:48):
what are referred to as l d s, which stands
for long delay echoes, and people have attributed this to
the Black Night satellite. We talked about thought a little
bit during Lost Boil Area skipping skipping, it's it's it's
a similar phenomena to skipping. Yeah, so yeah, essentially that's

(05:09):
what they're saying, then, is that the Black Knight satellite
picked up these transmissions and then bounced them back to
didn't just echo off the off the satellite, but it
actually absorber it recorded it, retransmitted back down at different
intervals and a delay. Yes, the delay was not consistent,
though I understand correct. It is not a consistent delay

(05:31):
can anywhere. I think it's anywhere from six to thirty
to thirty seconds to sometimes up to a minute or so.
It's it's really inconsistent. It's really weird, that a little weird.
We're gonna move forward again to nine to Nino, and
according to the story, the US government released information that

(05:52):
they had detected two satellites that we're gonna polar orbit. First,
you need to understand that we, and by we I
mean the human race, not us specifically Team Side yes,
not Team Sideways, but the actual human race had not
yet developed a capability to put a satellite into orbit.

(06:13):
That wouldn't happen until October four, nine seven, when sput
Nick was put into orbit, So we hadn't launched a
satellite at all. I guess we should clarify also that
satellite can mean anything that's orbiting, right. It doesn't necessarily
mean that it's of the satellite. Yes, anything that is
intentionally orbiting the Earth, So it doesn't necessarily mean it

(06:35):
was mechanical or anything like that. Very true. The other
thing to keep in mind is that this, well, actually
it's it says that there were two satellites at the
time in a polar orbit. And I want to talk
about a polar orbit real quick so that people know
what this is, because this is important. Most satellites are

(06:55):
in an equatorial or semi equatorial orbit. That means they're
going around the equator, and most people do satellites even
today that way because it's easier because when a rocket
is launched, you use the the inertia of the Earth
to propel it in that direction. Not the inertia, but

(07:17):
the speed. The rotation. Rotation is what I was after.
But it helps with it. Yeah, so it gets it going. Yeah,
that's why most most of them are west to east.
There's only a few of the east to west. But
but the thing is is going in the opposite direction,
or even more so, going in a polar orbit is
hard because you kind of negate all of that speed

(07:40):
that you've picked up on launch and then get something
to rotate over each of the poles. So instead of
going around the equator, we're rotated at ninety degrees. Now
you're going over both the poles of going east west
or west east, they're going north, south or southa correctly.
And that's a very good way to put it. And
that's what you do for that is you just launched
from a more northerly um launch point. That also helps

(08:03):
a lot. But yeah, it's not tremendously unusual. A lot
of survey and spice satellites have polar orbits because that's
a great way to cover the entire surface of the
plane didn't very short at the time. That's the upside
of the polar orbit is you're circling around the poles
while the Earth is circling around underneath you, so you
can take images of the whole thing, right, Yeah, So yeah,

(08:25):
lots of lots of survey satellites and stuff like that
use use the polar that's that's yeah. I mean obviously,
our our earliest launches were just west to ease. Yeah.
And and the first the first satellite, and I use
that that satellite, what man made satellite? Yes, the first
man made sate, thank you, uh that we put into

(08:48):
a polar orbit of any kind didn't happen until nineteen sixty.
And this report is from nineteen fifty four, so there's
some strange this there. The other thing is that, according
to these reports, that satellite was transmitting radio signals that
could be detected, but it couldn't be picked up the

(09:11):
satellites from both of them, yes, or at least one
of them. Again, this is where the story gets a
little fudgy. And I don't know, but signals are being sent,
they're being picked up. We don't know what they are,
and then the satellites just kind of disappear, or maybe

(09:31):
we lost track of them. I'm not positive, but there's
no more reporting on it at that time. I'm not
sure what our tracking abilities were back in those days,
because I mean, these days we have radars because obviously
we want to track all the satellites that are up there.
And yeah, at that time, I don't know how. I
don't even know how they picked them up. That's the
hard part is, I don't know how these things were

(09:52):
discovered because it can't find it in in the lore. Again,
I'm gonna use that phrase. All of the retellings and
the stuff that I've found and digging through, and I
can't find out how it was picked up, just that
it was. Yeah, so it makes you wonder. Yeah, we're
gonna skip ahead a couple of years to nine seven. Uh.

(10:14):
There are accounts that the Black Night satellite was photographed
following sput Nick two by a guy named Dr Caralis Coralis.
I'm not sure he's Venezuela. It happened in Venezuela, so
I'm assuming that it's it's a name that's of some
Spanish origin, But I'm terrible at pronunciations, as we all

(10:37):
know by now. So what I'm just gonna go with that.
Somehow the b KS managed to swing out of its
polar orbit and and and get behind Sputnik two. Yeah, yeah,
evidently who was shadowing sput Nick two. Yeah, and he
took he took this photo of it when he was
in he was in Caracas. But again, this is this
is another bit. It's so jumbled, it's so muddle. I

(11:01):
can't get good details on this that's good enough to retell.
So I'm just gonna kind of leave it at that
as it was. Photographs shadowing spot Nick two. And no,
no pho, no copies of the photograph exists anywhere I
take it. I can't find them. I haven't seen anything. Again,
We're gonna skip forward in time a couple of years
to nineteen sixty. At that time, the US and the

(11:22):
Russians had put successfully quite a few satellites into orbit.
But you got to remember those. Of course, now we're
in the Cold War, and just freaks the US military
out that, oh my god, there's satellites up there that
could be, you know, recording us or taking pictures of us.
You gotta keep track of those signs you do. And

(11:42):
so they put up a net, a kind of a
radar net like what you were alluding to a little
bit earlier, Joe, so that they could track what came across.
There was one on the eastern coast, one on the
western coast, so they could track the things that came by.
On February eleven of nineteen sixty, newspapers announced that an

(12:03):
object was detected that was of unknown origins, and it
was described as a dark, tumbling object that was at
a seventy nine It's orbiting seventy nine degrees off the equator,
so close to a polar orbit. Um. Yeah, kind of,
it's not exactly a true polar orbit as it was

(12:24):
described from the nineteen fifty four reports, but I don't know.
But it's also said that it had an eccentric or
erratic orbit, and it had an apogee of and this
is where I'm gonna need your help here, Joe. So
it says the apogee was one thousand, seven hundred twenty
eight kilometers. What is that going to be in miles? Okay?

(12:48):
And it had a parody of two hundred and sixteen kilometers,
So what is that? Well, what is that equate two
in miles. So yeah, is the low point in a bit,
appig is the high point in the orbit. And the
easy way that I always think of it is a
way and appog will start with an A, which puts

(13:10):
Paragy closer. Does that make sense? The A and the P.
It's it's kind of a what's what's the word I'm
looking for, Tom, thank you? It's not, but it's kind
of It's the way I remembered is apps away that
puts Paragy close. It's it's not the best thing, but
that's how I keep it straight in my little headshare. Yeah,

(13:30):
but now that was nine sixty. Now that this particular orbit,
that this is what the U. S. Military reported, because
I thought they reported something with a little bit not
quite such an an erratic or that's again that's the
difficulty here is that with retellings, it's hard to pin
down exactly what was talked about or reported. I gotta

(13:52):
say with you, if if this isn't indeed an alien
object that they put in a put an orbit around
the planet, they did kind of a crappy job. Well,
the thing obviously that I don't like talking about because
I don't want to ever think about it. But you know,
the whole like lost cosmonaut thing is like nineteen fifty nine.
Uh so, I mean, you know, to have some weird

(14:15):
lost space stuff in accidental orbit of the Earth, isn't
you know? It's not it's not. Here's here's something. I mean,
we've been talking about the orbit and stuff being up there,
but here's something that's weird about the orbit. To me
is things that are in a stable orbit have to
be two d two miles or more above the Earth.

(14:40):
This thing was what was the miles, which to me
doesn't make sense because that seems like it would come
too close gravity and atmosphere would drag it and slow
it down and pull it back to Earth. So it's
a weird orbit to It would take a long time
for that orbit the k but it would eventually. Yeah. Yeah.

(15:01):
It's also said that, and this is talking about the
size of the satellite. It's said that the object was
calculated to be somewhere between ten to fifteen tons. How
I have no idea how that calculation was done, but
that is that is miles and miles heavier, much much

(15:24):
heavier than anything we had been able to put into
orbit at that time. For the aliens um and I
can't get a clear bead on the size of it.
And this is this is the part that really jumps
out to me. Based on that weight is I've seen
to a couple of places say that it was two

(15:45):
ft by three foot, which would put it at what
three six twelve cubic feet objects, Yeah, that's over a
ton a cubic foot. That's freaking heavy. I mean there
are some there are some metal cials that could be
like that, but it has to be totally solid. Yeah,

(16:06):
some some asteroids are, they're made of heavy metals. But
I don't think anything that down and yeah, I would
have to be right. And so then you run into
the problem of if it is broadcasting anything there can't
also be contained within the technology to broadcasts that we
know how to welfare that we know how to we
know how to make, but you know how to make everything, Steve.

(16:29):
Have you seen Joe's spacement? He makes everything down I
got little elves down there, one of these things down there.
But here's the thing about if it's only two by
three feet, then how did doctor what's his name of
karacoss wal to manage to snap a picture of it?
Let's let's see it. Well, I don't think Sputnik was
very big. I don't, Yeah, I guess, but Nick wasn't
all that big either. Sputnik two would have been the

(16:50):
same design, just the second one shot up into space.
But I mean, the thing is is that what we're
gonna find with this story is we go through the
orbit changes, the weight changes, and the size changes. All
these things change as we go and and so that's
why I wanted to call it out. But if we

(17:11):
go back to this nineteen sixties stuff, the military, according
to the story, got really interested and they put a
lot of effort into researching this mystery satellite, and they
commissioned a special committee to gather information on it. And
those findings have never been released. Nobody's ever seen them.

(17:33):
After that's a good question. After tracking this, what they
are people are saying was the Black Night satellite in
nineteen sixty for three weeks it again disappeared. But during
that time, the strange transmissions, the l DSE, the long,

(17:56):
the way echoes were being picked up. We're gonna move
just slightly forward. In nineteen sixty to September three, there
is a tracking camera at Grooming Aircraft Corporation. It was
at their Long Island factory or facility, and it said

(18:17):
that it took a photo of the Black Night satellite.
This is where things get a little kinky to me,
is people on the ground said they had been seeing
it for about two weeks. They could make it out.
It was red and glowing and moving east to west. Uh.

(18:38):
The speed was about it was described as being about
three times as normal. And it's shape like I talked
about a minute ago, it's it's changed again in this
It is now about nineteen ft long and ways thirty
two thousand pounds. I don't I guess my question on that, right,

(18:59):
is that just uh, how at what point do you
just say, well, obviously it's something different, you know. I
think at some point you say that doesn't sound anything
like this. I don't know what your basis for claiming
it's the Black Knight satellite is. It doesn't have any
of the any kind of basic that's never been reported
to glow red has been reported movies to west. Right.

(19:22):
So I think at some point on a lot of
stuff like this, and I know we are inclined to
do that and I want to do it again, is
just say, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. That's
clearly not I'm I'm on board. I'm trying to throw
that one out, absolutely because going from a near polar
orbit to suddenly being in an equatorial orbit that's amazing.

(19:45):
But not only that, but to have changed size and
color so drastically and speed. It's a transformer clearly not
actually that it's not an autobotic, it's a decepticon. Maybe
if you're moving three's it's a fast that must mean
that means also you're a lot lower in there, a
lot lower down, because that's why that's how you keep

(20:05):
from dropping into the gravity well of the planet is
to to speed up. The closer you get the more
the faster you have to go, and move farther out
you can go slower. So you know, this thing apparently
can move itself around pretty good. Maybe it's just something
totally different. Yeah, it could be. We're gonna go to
some more strange things that are attributed to the Black

(20:26):
Knight satellite. Uh, do either of you know who Gordon
Cooper is? Who is he Joe Mercury, Memricury ast or not? Yes,
he was, he was on Mercury nine for anybody who
doesn't know. The Mercury program was putting men in capsules
and shooting them into space, and they were circling the

(20:47):
globe and then splashing back down into the ocean to
figure out how to survive in space. By the way,
if you want to read a good book on the subject,
The Right Stuff by Tom Wolf. It's a great book.
I haven't I don't remember watching the movie as a kid,
but I never read the book. You gotta read the book.
The book. The book is much better, I can only
I wouldn't be shocked by that. But if you want

(21:08):
to know everything you wanted to know about the Mercury
program and then read this book, it's awesome, awesome, Okay, uh, well,
you know it's funny. Who was the first man in space? Um?
It was Alan Shepherd? Yeah, yeah, So one of the
things Cooper's first attempted launch, they scrubbed it. He was,
he was in the cockpit, he's ready to go, and

(21:30):
then they had described it for some technical reason. But
like every single launched NASA has attempted in the last
four years. Yeah, but who was it was? Shepherd? Shepherd?
Believe I think you're right. I can't remember, but uh yeah,
Cooper got into the cockpit and he found I a
plunger from Shepherd. That's because when he had gone up,

(21:52):
evidently there was an issue with the plumbing of his
toilet system, and so as a joke, he had given
him a plunger to take with him into space. But
that didn't actually end up going into space because that
mission got scrubbed. But when Cooper finally did get into space,
he orbited the Earth twenty two times before he came
back down on trip fifteen around the globe. That's where

(22:15):
the strangeness comes in. Cooper reported a greenish UFO to NASA,
and the people at the tracking station of NASA also
saw this on his readouts and displays. And it's it's
important to point out Cooper wasn't afraid to report UFOs.

(22:39):
He evidently reported a couple of UFO in sightings because
he was a test pilot and he would see things
and he would call it a UFO because he didn't
know what it was, and because it was by definition
and flying, it's not what we would consider today to
be a space aliene. Yeah no, but he he would
report those things, so it's credible that he would have

(23:00):
reported this, and according to the story, it's corroborated by
this these I think it's up to a hundred people
that were in the NASA tracking station in Australia that
saw it on their screens. So, in other words, the
blacke Knights satellite and once again changed the store. But
now it's going west to east again. Oh, because it
was because of the Shepherd instance, well, because Cooper incident. Well,

(23:23):
I don't know that. I don't know, at least in
this writing. It doesn't necessarily mean that it was orbiting together.
It just means that he saw go past them him, right, Yeah,
that's that's entirely possible. It was still orbiting north south,
but it had never been described as having this greenish
glow that he described what he had been that close

(23:43):
to it before. Yeah, was it coming towards him or
moving past him behind him? I don't know. Again, it's
one of those things where the accounting of this is
just so brief and it's just splashed and then that's it.
You get you get the flash, but you don't in
any of the follow up details. Now, some of this
stuff we will be going into in more detail in

(24:06):
the theory section. So before anybody, you know, screaming at
us what's going on, just be aware. We're gonna come
back to some of this stuff. But I just want
to We're gonna have to circle back to a couple
of times from Yeah. Another newspaper article that we have
from nineteen nine said that the Apollo ten astronauts and

(24:27):
those would be young Sernin and Stafford, were the first
to actually fill a extraterrestrial beacon, which was called the Monolith.
It's it's a small version of what you saw in
the movie or read about in the book two one

(24:49):
of Space Odyssey. Yeah, okay, sorry, yep, no, but yeah,
so it's it's from two thousand one. Like I said,
the Apollo ten crew evidently filmed it from all angles.
But I'm sorry I did. I did a quick Google search, um,

(25:11):
and that footage doesn't exist on the internet somewhere I know,
or depending on your perspective, not surprisingly yeah, depending yep.
The first cosmonaut in space. Uh, let's see, that was
Eerie Garon. Is that how you would say that? I
believe that's how it's pronounced. He cited the Monolith in

(25:32):
sixty one, and then Alan Shepard who were talking about earlier.
Evidently he is supposedly supposedly his report had reported it
as well. But I I say that with a lot
of hesitance. I don't know. Again, this is just the
way the story is told. And you see it. If

(25:54):
we move then to ninety three again, we're that's a
little farther skipping time. A researcher, his name is Duncan Lunin.
He decided that he wanted to try to figure out
what the l D transmissions that were being picked up meant,
what the deal was. And he did an amazing job.

(26:16):
He did. He went to the records of the transmissions
and he analyzed him and what he determined was that
they were from another race. And they included a star
chart too. And I know I'm gonna butcher this pronunciations
thet s a salon butts, but I know booties is incorrect.

(26:43):
It's a double star in the bot S constellation. It's
got that what is the little double dot over the
east the out on the second oh, which makes it
so hard to pronounce. But what here's how he figures
this out is he figured this out by plotting the

(27:03):
delay time of the signal against the order in which
the echoes were received. That's what he said he did.
Now what that means, I don't I don't have the
scientific backing to to explain. But based on that research,
he said the signals were twelve thousand, six hundred years old.

(27:26):
Well they would have had. I mean, it would be
not so hard to do the math on that, right,
I mean, realistically, if if you can say, yeah, it's
coming from that star, the science behind saying it's coming
from there not, but to figure out how long it
would have taken from something to get there from here?
How how he figured out the star chart, because he

(27:46):
says it it included you know, I don't know if
it's coordinates or star chart, but that's how he figured
out what consolation would language. Yeah, and I don't know
how many how many light years from us long ways?
I'd love to hear the are there are there recordings
of l d s on the internet, of these specific

(28:08):
l E d s. Well these I don't think these
ones would be out there, the ones that Lunin was
looking at, because this is in but l d s
still happen, and I imagine that they're on the internet.
I didn't think to look to listen to them, because
from what I understand, l d s are repeats of
signals from Earth. They're just echoes. So that's why it's

(28:30):
a little weird to me that he found this extraterrestrial
location called out. But yeah, I don't know, I was,
you know, I was pondering that too. It seems a
little fantastic, but it's uh, you know. My one thing
is that if if you're a satellite and you just
don't have the gumption to just broadcast a message directly

(28:51):
at planet Earth, but you want to, you want to
send a message, what a clever way to do it
is to is to receive a radio signal and then
retrans at it back. But they're the interval by which
you traveled to transmit a mess and that and so
the interval that the variation in the interval contains information.

(29:12):
Actually it's not bad. You know, if we're gonna theorize
for a second, I'm don't hop ahead to theories, but
to just quickly theorial if we're if we are, if
we were to say that the Black Knight satellite were,
for instance, an alien spaceship that was stranded or something
of that nature, right, that they were not powerful enough

(29:35):
to exit our orbit, but also didn't want to die
on their entry in or whatever trying to send a
distress signal. If they're basically a dormant ship, that would
be a really good, easy, like energy conserving way is
to just hold one back, you know, to not You
wouldn't have to actually broadcast a new message or anything

(29:55):
like that. You just can delay it a little bit.
I don't know, well, it's still broadcasting there. It makes
me think, what was that movie that that came out
last year, the Matthew McConaughey movie about space, Interstellar, And
one of the things that they do is he transmitted
messages in like binary code and stuff like that. I

(30:18):
mean that to me is in line with what you're
talking about, not exact, but it makes me think about that.
I didn't see it. It's actually pretty good. But you
can control the volume, because the volume on that movie
is terrible. I will not in a movie about people
in space, Steve, you know my thing about people in space.

(30:39):
So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give Devon
a DVD that says it's the movie Heathers and then
she and I'm gonna actually print on it, so it
says the Heathers. She'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna watch
Heathers and then she's gonna pop it in. It's gonna
be interstellar to you. And you got it. You gotta
program so it disabled the off button. That's important. I

(31:00):
will turn it off. Sorry, and we're at we're a
little off. Let's get back to the story years old. Yeah,
well that's that's yeah. No, we're not gonna do that
right now. Let's move to the last big thing about
the Black Knights satellite, which is again skipping head in time.

(31:22):
The astronauts aboard the Space Shuttle Endeavor, which was gonna
go meet up with the International Space Station the I
S S S. Sorry I added an extra s. It's
the ICE think that's some other weird group. But they
were going to go there because I don't remember what

(31:44):
they were doing. At one point, they suddenly saw this
strange black object out their window and they took a
bunch of high quality photos of this black object traveling
away from them. And if you go out on Google
you can find these images. Yeah, any website that's about
the Black satellite has at least one of these at

(32:06):
least one, if not all and there, and they always
crop them up just so you can just see it.
Not everything around it, but you see a lot of it.
And now everybody's favorite time theories. Let's go into the theories.
And we've we've talked about the first theory a little bit,
which is, Okay, it truly is something extraterrestrial. And I

(32:32):
think that I've got a little guf for this in
the past. It's not that I don't disbelieve in aliens.
I just don't believe in aliens. Like no, I I
believe in aliens. It's just a lot of things that
are automatically attributed to aliens strike me wrong because it
doesn't make sense. And and but but I'm going to
suspend that, and we're going to talk about this. I

(32:54):
don't understand why something like this would be circling the
globe for so long basically doing nothing. Well, but we
don't really know that's been circling the globe that long. Okay,
that's your right. We don't know how long it's been there.
According to what we evidently in the fifties is when
we figured out something was up sixty years Okay, And

(33:16):
then you can just go ahead and assume it's possible
that a lifespan isn't the same, right, their time scale
isn't the same. Also, there's something to be said for
gathering data. Then you want a big cample source for
that data. There might not be It might be a
robotic probe, but not actually people by aliens, and and
and and The thing that that I had, this is

(33:38):
the way I had to deal with it in my
head is okay, Well, we we keep hearing stuff about
it disappearing and it changing its course a little bit.
So maybe it's a little shy and it's happily rotating
or circling the globe, and then oh, look, a couple
of rockets pop up because I need to get out
of the neighborhood. So it's got to have some kind

(34:00):
of control, pushes itself farther away from the planet. Look
the rockets are gone. Yeah, comes back in. Oh, now,
we're us humans in space all the time, so it
has to stay farther out to keep from being detected.
So I can see if it is an information gathering
thing and it doesn't want to be discovered, I can

(34:21):
see why that would be. But it's still weird. To
me that the orbit has changed so much. I guess
I don't have that problem because I choose to disbelieve
the reports of the orbit changing that much that I mean,
there are consistent reports throughout time, right that it's been
essentially the same orbit essentially right, versus like a few
outliers where it's just people who are clearly describing something

(34:44):
else exactly who are saying it's the Black Knight style.
So it's not a problem to me that it would
just be in the same orbit. Okay, I can run
with that. And we've we've we've already gone into what
the the reason for the d Yeah, so I don't
think we need to hash that up and not really

(35:04):
and the but you're right, it could it could well
be that the whole point of that thing was just
to wait until we started popping our rockets and then
his job is done. Now would just notifies the home
that we've achieved a level of technological advancement to where
we can actually put things in orbit, and then it's
it tells home and then Dodge either runs away or

(35:25):
as far as this retro doesn't jump, plunges into our
atmosphere and burns up the dormant. Who knows. I mean,
it could have been what burned up in the atmosphere
over Russia at the other Yeah, yeah, last year. You
don't know it was really right, I don't know that.
I think it would have done the job earlier than that.
But because we know it would, it would have detected
all the radar waves, so it used to track things

(35:46):
in orbit. But it might have waited long enough to
make sure we didn't destroy ourselves. How's it going to
stop us from destroying her? So wait to make sure
we didn't before reporting home. We still could, We still
could easily. Yeah, but well, as part as extraterrestrial origins,
it actually could. And this is entirely credible. It could

(36:07):
be extraterrestrial because extraterrestrial is just anything that's not on
planet Earth and not of planet Earth. So imagine it's
just a small asteroid or a meteor or something like
meteoroid that just happened to, like, you know, come along
and get caught for a while in orbit around that's
got lassoed in the orbit around our planet, and you're
highly irregular orbit. You would expect that it's something that

(36:29):
like nabbed things don't just naturally go into perfect orbits. No,
they don't. They're not going to go in a certain
They're gonna go into a very erratic orbit like this one.
And so it's entirely possible there's something came along and
wound up an orbit around us for a while, and
then just eventually it's orbit deteriorated and it plunged into
our atmosphere and finally got a sling shot in a way,

(36:50):
that's possible too. That sounds like this thing was in
a fairly stable orbit from the way people are talking
about it. The way people are talking about I think
is an apt description makes it hard saying that that's
a concrete fact. So, but it sounds like it was
a stable laun term more. But and then it's not
going to suddenly slingshot itself away, but it will eventually
probably the sortab will decay and they'll go into the atmosphere. Yeah,

(37:15):
so it could really be extra extra tre it could
just be a bit of space debree, you're right, space rock. Yeah.
Let's then. Now let's move into the next theory. I'm
gonna make some people mad, and I'm okay with that
when I say that the next theory is that it
was made up for fun or to stir people up.

(37:39):
And bear with me. Is I go through this because
I've you two know, but our listeners don't know where
I'm heading with this in the images that I've shown you.
For the reason why, because believe it or not, people
do go on the Internet and they make things up
or on a more mundane scale, they totally misinterpret something

(38:00):
and then they shouted to everybody they know, and then
that gets repeated as well. We do that all the time.
There's an example I've seen it. There's an image out
there that I've seen that is supposedly from Apollo ten
showing the Black Night satellites, and I wasted so much

(38:24):
time going through the Apollo ten photos and not finding it,
and then I started just going through all of the
photos that were available from NASA, and lo and behold,
I actually found the photo itself in its raw format. Yeah,
I got but has a NASA has a ton of photographs.
I know. I couldn't believe I found it. I couldn't

(38:46):
believe I found it. But here's the thing. I then
wasted even more time brewing around with that image in
photos shot because here's the thing. The website that I
have seen this on. There's a couple of them say,
look at this alien spacecraft. That is the Black Knights
satellite that was found in this Apollo ten image. The

(39:10):
image has no date, it has no location that it
was shot from. The image is not good quality, And
I'm gonna walk through some of these facts because these
are the things that make our jobs so hard. So
when I find a very blatant one, I have to
call it out so people can kind of think what's

(39:32):
going on when they're seeing some of this. So the
exposure is really bad. But there's also stuff all over
this image's water spots and I found hairs on it,
which tell me that it was a print and not
a negative that was scanned in. And you got this
off the NASA website or something else's website. Huge three

(39:55):
D p I res huge image. It was, I mean,
it's like a hundred eggs or something. It was god
awful huge. But if it had been scanned in from
a negative, a hair would have been gigantic, but that
wasn't the case. They were really small on the image,
which means it has to be a print. And the
same thing with the water spots negative even on a

(40:20):
large format negative, which I haven't heard of those being
used in those early programs. That would be a really
really fine hair to be picked up like this. It
just it looks like cat hair. But when I put
it in Photoshop and I adjusted it multiple times in
multiple ways to correct the exposure so that the background,

(40:43):
which is space, is the right color, which is black,
this thing disappears. So I'm pretty positive that this thing
was dust or more likely lint or something. Plus, never
mind the fact that this photo it hadn't been it
can somewhere between the Earth and the Moon. For the

(41:04):
size of the Earth and the photograph, they must have
been at least a third of the way to the Moon. Yeahs,
which means that probably as big as that thing was,
it should have crashed and killed us all or unleashed
the alien horde. Yeah, I mean it would have been.
And obviously it would have been enormous to be a
scale it wasn't that photograph would be. It would have

(41:25):
been an altitude of thousands of miles, not just and
so yeah, the whole thing is just absurd. So what
I want people to do is I want them to
keep this in mind and keep an objective view on this,
so that when they're looking at it and they kind
of pull the details out and not just take the
bait and and just swallow it all at once, but

(41:48):
really trying to figure out what you're looking at, which
I told you'd have to be pretty damn guillable to
look at that photograph and think it has anything to
do with the Black Knight satellite. Well, if you know,
in the original image that I showed you guys, looks
kind of metallic space shippy because it's zoomed and it's
fuzz and I can see how somebody without taking context
into it, would be like, WHOA, what the heck is that? Yeah?

(42:11):
I mean, you know, in the original photo, if if
you're just looking at within the confines of a website
or something like that, you're not going to see the hair.
You're not going to see all of the other stuff there.
It's all cropped and it does you know. I've seen
that picture before and it's hard to kind of step
away from that and say, oh, there, there could totally
be something else going on there. It's easy to take

(42:32):
it as face value, and we do that a lot.
Next theory on the docket, what's that this is really
just a bunch of stories that have been jammed together
with hot glue to make it the Black Knight satellite.
Do you do you get why I make the hot
glue reference. Do you remember when you were a kid
and you were an art class and you would hot

(42:53):
glue stuff together and it would just come out to
be this gnarly gross mass of like stuff. Did you
ever do that? Because I as an artist. I'm an
artist too, but I was still a kid. Now class
we use wealthing equipment. No, I was just thinking. I
was trying to figure out if you were talking about
a bunch of different stories jammed together or a bunch
of different things jammed together like in that episode of Futuruma.

(43:16):
Oh no, this is this is not not the future
a bunch of stories jammed together. Which I know that
the pair of you do this, and we've just been
kind of harping on. This is when we start looking
at these things, each individual piece in context, Suddenly it
becomes much easier to see what's going on. And what

(43:36):
we're gonna do is we've already walked through this entire story.
We're now going to walk through a number of pieces
of the story in sequence again, kind of shine some
light on some things that were going on. Sounds good,
There was a lot of that stuff. Yeah, well, let's
let's start with Nikola Tesla because he's where we started
in the beginning. Today, we do know that Tesla us

(44:00):
picking up a repeating signal, but what he was picking
up was a pulsar. We didn't know about pulsars in
We didn't really figure out what they were officially or
or classify them until nineteen. Pulsars put out radio waves

(44:21):
in a very specific pattern that's repeating. He didn't know that,
so he just he took his best guests. I totally
understand that. I don't fault Tesla for that, but that's
what that was, so I can't say that's the Black
Knight satellite. We'll move forward to l D ease. We
don't really know exactly what ld s are today, but

(44:42):
there's a there's over a dozen theories out there, but
basically what we think is going on is that a
couple of the theories are is that it's possible that
radio waves are being picked up and caught in Aurora
activity cau is by solar storms, which is holding onto
them before they get spun down Earth. There was just

(45:05):
a really interesting article released about Aurora energy and how
it affects the Earth. Who will post it on Facebook eventually,
but just saying, like literally today there was a new
very interesting Let's see what do we got. The next
one up is it's reflections in the ionosphere that are
caused by the magnet sphere. Yeah, like radio skipping. Yeah,

(45:26):
it's radio skipping, is exactly what it is. And and
actually the thing about the reflection the radio skipping is
it's actually refraction. It's actually not things not bouncing off
the atosphere. And I talked about the snailb lost boilery
lbl Um is that they are actually refracted debt back
downward by the ionosphere. And a similar phenomenon happens under

(45:49):
the ocean submarine. Somebody's sonar as a PASTI sonars will
pick up the same signal at two different times because
they travel basically different pathways to get to you. You're
listening with your with your hydrophone, and you hear the
same noise twice because it goes it takes two different
paths to get there. It's being refracted up and down
one way, bouncing off the bottom of the ocean and

(46:09):
the top of the ocean. Essentially, it's a similar kind
of thing like a sound layer is a similar kind
of thing. Is what the ionosphere does, and that is
and that is it will bounce off the bottom of
the ocean, then it goes up to a sound to
like a layer where they say a sharp difference in temperature,
and there are temperature gradients like that in the ocean.
And it doesn't it it's some people look at it

(46:30):
is bouncing up, but really what happens is it goes
up into that and it's refracted bent back downwards, so
it's refracted, not really reflected. And no, no, no, I'm
not correcting you. What I was saying is that what
i'd say is that what the experience that that what
what the Navy's experienced with sonar is a similar thing
where where something will follow two different tracks to get

(46:52):
to the same place and it gets there at different times.
The noise does it's the same thing can happen. Yeah,
but it's not. That's not really unexplainable. No, and and
and yeah it's it's but it's weird. But here here's
the last one that we've got for l D ease,
which is it maybe that the radio signals are getting

(47:13):
trapped between ionized layers in the atmosphere, because that we
do know that happens. There's ionization up there and it's
kind of bouncing around and then it quote unquote falls
out a hole or bounces out a hole it's in
the bottom. Now it's quite as likely that some of
them they get trapped in there, are bouncing out of

(47:33):
holes in the top and shooting into space. But once
we're picking up or falling out of the bottom, that's
what's causing the delays. They're skipping around until they finally
find a hole to to bounce out of. That. The
other thing about the l D ease is actually a
lot of this is that if it's an ALIAS satellite,
then why is it messing around with this whole l

(47:55):
D crap. It's either gonna be totally its stealth mode
or it's gonna be sending us direct transmiss and saying, hey, there,
how's it going, you know, Garfield, and come see me
kind because we really want to eat you. Yeah, our
English isn't good yet. Yeah we didn't mean we didn't
mean that at all, but yeah, and so I don't.

(48:17):
I don't think it's going to be doing weird stuff
like like re broadcasting our radio ways to us. That's
I will, I'll get on board with that. Let's move forward.
Remember we talked about the newspaper reporting of the two
satellites that were in a polar orbit. Yeah, yeah, it
turns out that's not real reporting. It's a couple of

(48:39):
reporters and a couple of papers evidently ripping off the
Dutch jacket of a UFO book. Oh, some guy was
trying to sell his book about UFOs and they were
having a little fun and they took some stuff directly
out of it and published it and people went picked
it up and believed it. And really it was just

(48:59):
kind of a joke. I think it was an inside
joke that gained more life than they ever thought it would.
It was the day was April one, It was April first.
But yeah, so that's what's going on there. Let's move
forward again. We're gonna talk about nineteen sixty and what
the U. S. Air Force or the U S and

(49:20):
the U S government found. Here's what's going on in
nineteen six. Do you remember there was that unknown dark
tumbling object that was picked up, and everybody kind of
wigged out because we're in Cold War times. Yeah, no,
it wasn't at the time. So we're talking ninth late

(49:40):
fifty nine, all of sixty part of sixty one. We're
putting rockets up and it's part of the Discoverer program
where the Discover program is going to put satellites out
so that we can figure out what's in space, what's
on Earth. We're gonna figure out all this stuff. Yeah, okay,
that's that's figured it out already, right, that we did.
Space is done. But it's not a mystery at all.

(50:03):
It turns out the CIA um I think it was
through the Freedom of Information Act because it was no
longer classified. We found out the CIA was involved in
the Discovery program and they were putting up is it
Corona Corona satellites And it sounds like, Joe, you you

(50:27):
actually have a pretty good idea of what the Corona
satellites were or did you just kind of gone through them. Yeah.
So Corona was really the earliest spy satellite at least
that we had. And what Corona did is said it
would be in a polar orbit, as we talked about before,
for surveying and spying polar lower low altitude orbits to
the best. And it had a number of high definitions,

(50:50):
like really big cameras in it that took a lot
of photographs and then thousand per yeah, just it would
just use up as an entire roll, and then the
camera would be ejected by the satellite and it would
fall into the atmosphere and it would would deploy a
parachute and then this this airplane would come along and
snag it in midair. And it was really an elaborate operation.

(51:10):
And luckily these days we've we've got electronic we can
just broadcast digital images. Back yeah, we didn't have that.
Back in those days. We didn't have digital imaging. So
they actually had to take film and ejected and imagine
how beautifully time that had to be. That plane had
to be just in the perfect right spot. They lost

(51:31):
a number of those satellites when they the bucket, they
called it the bucket when it dropped its bucket. They
lost a number of buckets in the first one that
they lost eventually was found in Venezuela, and once it
was found, they realized that what they needed to do
was stop stenciling top secret on it. Yeah, they put

(51:51):
they put some reward information in twenty two languages all
over it so people would turn it in. That is
the most amazing. Yeah, don't look at this tough secret,
don't touch it. Yeah. Well, so here's the thing is
that so we've we've talked about the Corona program. Well,
what happened is Discover eight. There evidently was some kind

(52:14):
of malfunction and when it went to drop its bucket,
it's orbit was messed up and a big chunk of
it came off in an unexpected way and it tumbled
around the Earth. Gosh, when was it it? Uh? It
came back and it re entered the atmosphere in March

(52:35):
of nineteen sixty. And they're pretty sure the bucket came
back down or probably around that time, because it didn't
dump the bucket as it was intended. But that was
in a polar orbit and would have been in an
erratic orbit because it was screwed up. So it's pretty
positive that that's what was being picked up. Because the

(52:56):
CIA isn't gonna tell the U s A Force what
they've got up there because it's so secret, they're not
gonna just spill. Oh sorry, ted this is what it is. Yeah,
they're going to do that, particularly if it involves admitting
a huge mistake, especially a giant program. Because I think
there was fifteen or no, there was more than fifteen.

(53:19):
There was I can't remember how many of those. It's
there was lots and lots of those cameras, and they
they evolved quite quickly, but they put a lot of
those up there, and at a cold war time, that
would have probably caused some kind of clash. I mean,
we've already had the the whole Bay of Pigs thing

(53:40):
happened right around it wasn't the Bay of Pigs nine
sixty um, that was six. It was pretty close on
the heels this this potential nuclear holocausts between two countries.
So they didn't want to spill the beans and they
weren't supposed to be doing this. And also it is
again you know, you're not about to be like, oh, yeah, sorry,

(54:03):
we have this classified program and we kind of messed
it up and lost a half of something that cost
more than you know, we've ever thought of spending anything
on anything. You know, it's just you don't do that.
You don't say that, you don't say that at all.
Now you want to keep quiet about it, but just uh,
maybe a little bit of a correction. I thought that
what happened with that particular launch, it wasn't so much

(54:25):
the bucket dropping dropping wrongly, but it was that on launch,
the rocket goes up and then eventually a couple of
case things pop off and the satellite is released. And
I thought, I thought that one of those casings, for
one reason or another, like wound up in orbit instead
of going back into the atmosphere and burning up. I've
seen that as well, and that and that was that

(54:46):
that could would be. But I also know that there
was an issue with the satellite itself and the bucket
didn't come down right as well. So I don't know
which it is. It could have been the casing, It
could have been the bucket, it could have been the
Corona satellite. The case thing, I think would would be
a more likely candidate because it would have a much
bigger radar signature. Um yeah, but yeah, certainly, Spice satellites

(55:11):
would come a long ways. They're much sneakier, much sneakier,
much better. You don't buckets. Let's move to the next.
One of the next things we talked about which is
Gordon Cooper. Remember that Gordon Cooper saw the green glowing
thing at Loop number fifteen around the globe. Yeah, he
has adamant He adamantly denied that ever ever happened. Well,

(55:35):
of course he's denying it. He actually clearly got to
He actually provided transcripts, his own transcripts from his end
to prove that he didn't. Actually, I never said any
of that I know, And so all those people in
mission control they never never heard him say that. Even

(55:57):
so I'm guessing they never actually saw it either. We're
gonna then go to the nineties seventies when we had
Duck Duncan Lunin. I almost called him Ducan Lunin, which
doesn't make any sense. Duncan Lunin. He never actually said
that the transmissions that he was looking at came from
the Black Knight satellite. He also seems to believe that

(56:20):
they came from two points in space, one that was
sixty degrees ahead and one that was sixty degrees behind
the moon the course of the moon. And he actually
later on he acknowledged that he made some major mistakes
and what he came up with was wrong, and he

(56:40):
recounted the whole thing he renounced the retracted Yeah, he
was like, I was wrong. Plus I don't know what
I was smoking, but that was bad. Plus I believe
Duncan Lunin wasn't actually a scientist. Wasn't he actually a
science fiction writer? Bad was part of what he did,
I believe. Yes. And the last one in the story
that we talked about, which was the Endeavor photos. The

(57:04):
Space Shuttle would always fly in a semi equatorial orbit,
as does the Ice the International Space Station. Yeah that thing. Yeah,
if there is an object moving in a polar orbit,
it would have gone by the Space Shuttle. That would

(57:27):
have been zip eight to twenty thousand miles per hour,
which would be really hard to get all of those
really awesome high resolution photos. Oh, I know, I know.
That's I know, it's ridiculous. And that's let's space at
the combined speed of the two because don't forget, they're
also broken. They're rocketing along. They see how many sunrises

(57:50):
do they see in a day? Do you remember the number?
I don't remember. Something like that. Some crazy It would
be fun. I'd love to go up there. Oh yeah,
I just wish that I could afford the trip. I
don't have that kind of money unless this podcast suddenly
becomes a cash cow. Yeah. So, and also, you know,
you know, it's it's pretty There's all these pictures that

(58:12):
they took of this object, which you can't take when
you're both moving, and if you had a really high
speed camera you could get maybe one shot, but they
took a whole bunch of shot. It took a whole
bunch of shots. Here's what's going on, though, is the
mission logs and stuff. Turns out that during an e
v A, what does e v A stand for, it's

(58:33):
it's like extra extra vehicular activity activity. Yeah, they're outside
of the space. They went outside the space in a
space suit. The claiman stern of it. They floated around,
they floated around, they did some stuff. Well, they accidentally
knocked loose a thermal blanket and it flew away from
the space show. I'm guessing it was in the cargo compartment.

(58:54):
I don't know how it tore loose, but it did.
Those things are silver on one side and black on
the other, and they're basically a giant chunk of insulated blankets.
So if you ever think of the insulation in your house,
if you've ever seen that and we had space blankets
in our like in our Earth Quick survival kits. You
know they come in like a little path that's fits
in your pocket, something like that. Well it's a bulkier

(59:17):
version of that. But it broke loose and it drifted away.
It's dark on one side, silver on the other. Or
got knocked loose. Sorry, I'm just I'm checking my head
because I'm just thinking about how easy it is to
just knock something loose into space like a human. Well
it happened to Tim Robbins. Don't stop, just stop, okay, Uh,

(59:39):
Well it was the blanket was crumpled and folded and
it looked odd and it had some funny shapes as
it drifted away. But if we're gonna have to link
to this photo. But this is why I love the
Internet is somebody actually took the time to take all
of those photos, match up the cloud patterns and scale
them appropriately, and you can actually see this thing kind

(01:00:02):
of twisting and tumbling in space. And the only show,
as we talked about earlier, one image cropped really close,
and that one image does, in fairness look hole. It
looks very much like it could have been a space Yeah, exactly,
the right angle and the shiny bits are exactly where
you'd wanted. Yeah, I mean, but but when you see

(01:00:23):
this where they're all put together, not to make a
bad joke, but it it takes the wind at an
alien ships sail. I know that was terrible joke. I'm sorry. Really, yeah,
I really cannot make a joke in the last six months.
It's sad. Yeah, I gotta get I gotta get joke
act to me. Um. Okay, well, let's let's move forward.
We're going to go to the last bit here, which

(01:00:45):
is not really a theory, but it is a bit
of an explanation of where maybe the name came from.
The What Night. Didn't you ever see The Holy Grail? Yeah?
My godnets classic? Remember that? Okay, Well, obviously it's British

(01:01:11):
because Joe's making the Monty Python joke. Between nineteen fifty
eight to nineteen sixty five, the Brits were launching and
testing uh rockets and it was under the name the
Black Night. The whole thing was initially a ballistic missile
program so they could throw nukes it like I'm not

(01:01:33):
quite dead yet. Yeah, yeah, they were gonna they were
gonna throw nukes at the Soviet Union. But of course
the Soviet Union the US quickly outpaces um. They have
much better rocket technology. So what what they do is
they just decided to salvage this program and it was
using the Blue Streak missile was the actual missile that

(01:01:57):
it was using, but they were gonna go ahead and
use it to try hard to figure out how to
get into space. I guess this next part is because
they were trying to save money. They they farmed out
different bits of it to different countries, to France and
Germany and all these guys, and they did several launches,
and every one of the launches, it appears, failed because

(01:02:18):
like they had bad components on every every one of
them from different places. It wasn't like the Germans were
always screwing it up or the French were always screwing up.
It was like, oh, well they got it right, but
you got it wrong this time. And so the whole
thing was kind of a fiasco. It was. It got
retired in I want to say before nineteen seventy they
quit doing it because the whole thing was just a

(01:02:38):
waste of money and not quite bad yet. Yes, well
it is now, yeah, yeah, they still still got something
about still has a bit of a bit of a
space program that though that that's kind of the end
of what I've got here for the Black Night. So
I'm gonna go on record and saying I'm not saying
that there isn't something that is orbiting the Earth that

(01:02:59):
we didn't put there, that is of an intelligent origin
that we haven't figured out. I'm not going to say
that because I can't say that. But what I'm gonna
say is that a lot of things that have been
tacked onto this story shouldn't have been tacked on because
they're they're not real. But that really part of the story.
That's just kind of the fun of the whole thing. Though,

(01:03:19):
well it's the fun of the whole thing until there's
seven hundred different things that have been the big glued
to it this podcast, it is, indeed, And so that's
I'm gonna say. I I think I do think that
there may have been something up there that we didn't
know what it was, whether it's still there or not,
but it's not this giant, giant thing that the Black

(01:03:42):
Knight satellite story has grown to be in my opinion. Yeah,
it's just you know, probably like I was saying, naturally occurring,
just a meteoroid that was captured for a while before
burning up on our atmosphere, or the real left over
from our you know, from our space program, but that's
where one of our bad spice had the rocket, any

(01:04:03):
number of things, but not you know, an alien probe
or anything. Probably I don't think so, But I know
if you had a doubt in that, because actually, you know,
probably they would have been here by now. After surveying
the planet and everything, and I'm figuring out there's lots
of edible human beings down here, they would have been
been here. Well, I think I know I've talked to
you two about this, but I don't know if any

(01:04:25):
of our listeners have. Is it always that makes me
think is there's this book out there called Infected by
a guy named Scott Sigler, and one of the things
is that there's this probe circling the Earth that's dropping
microbe spore things that are doing weird thing to people
to try and you know, get its race going again.
But that's what I would think about it, is like,

(01:04:46):
if it's been there that long and it figures out
we're here, and hey, there's yummy humans with the squashy inside.
Let's do that. But none of that has happened that
I knew you were going to do that. I'm just saying,
you don't know. Other I don't they might have snagged
some people, you know. I mean, actually, you know, if
you if you think of human beings as a delicacy,

(01:05:07):
and then obviously a smart thing to do is just
to come down here and nab enough reading pairs to
take back to your home world that you can just
you know, just breed a whole lot of herds of
humans that you can you know that you can just
turn the stakes. I mean, I was just going with
the whole spore thing. I mean, there's nothing to say
that the course that our revolution has taken has been

(01:05:27):
the natural course that our evolution would have taken had
we not been exposed to those spores. You don't know
both of them. Although I do like Joe's theory a
little bit better, because you guys don't like the idea.
You don't like the idea of benevolent aliens like aliens.
They're no, no, no, I want the I want the
Joe cattle line. You know, there's there's what is o

(01:05:50):
Macron Percy I eight and they've they've got a whole
host of clones of Joe that are just walking around
talking about submarines before they get cut up into cuts
how our human horn har Yeah, they ain't gonna take
me alive, but before they walk into the human chopper. Yeah, yeah,

(01:06:10):
I don't know. I think this one's lad to rest. Okay,
I think that Yeah, it's uh, not alien. It's it's
not as as at least it's not as it is
led to be. It's sad ye. By the way, I
was speaking back back to the whole thing about about aliens.
I really really want the aliens that we eventually meet

(01:06:33):
if we do, to be good and to be benevolent.
Maybe it's possible, but I don't eat us. Yeah, but
I think that given given the fact that evolution applies,
dartwinness of applies on all worlds, they're going to be
aggressive and nasty and uh and they're probably gonna want
what we have. We're probably gonna end up being space hillbillies.

(01:06:54):
That's really what it's gonna boil down. Yeah, but we're wait,
we're going after nob track. So let's let's give our
our our final bit of important information here, which is
our website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Of course,
there you're gonna find the episode. In all of our
episodes that we've done on any story in the past,

(01:07:16):
you will find our research links to this particular one.
You can leave a comment on the website. You can
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most people are probably going iTunes. If you're on iTunes Blue,
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(01:07:39):
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You can find us on Facebook because we have the
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find us, friend us, like us, Joe something like that,

(01:08:00):
and Jonas wants to be liked. But we're Facebook and
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(01:08:20):
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(01:08:41):
stop using those silly l d s and just send
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(01:09:03):
autographed personally autographs eight by ten glossies of ourselves. That's
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(01:09:25):
anything you want if you want to talk about stuff.
We're always there. Will reply to everybody, maybe not within
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and I think that's just about all the details we
need to share with folks. All Right, we're going to
close this one up. Thanks, ladies and gentlemen. It's been
fun and we will talk to you next week Bye Guys, Aliens,