Thinking Sideways: Death of Huey Long

In Sept. 1935, Louisiana Senator Huey Long was assassinated in the Louisiana State House by Dr. Karl Weiss. Or was he?

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we don't know
the answer too. Hi there, Welcome again to another episode
of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined this week by and Steve. Yeah,

(00:30):
so joined this week, I guess joined every week. I'm Steven.
I'm filling steve seat this week. Yeah, I'm Devin, filling
in for Devon. She's on assignment. Yeah, and I've taken
over Joe's body. I'm not really Joe. Yeah. Okay, So
let's tackle a mystery. Guys, ready, all right? This week

(00:51):
we're going to talk about the mysterious death of Huey
Long in Loong is pretty famous guy. Probably most of
you have heard of him, a certain if you're an
older American, you've heard of him. He obviously was noticed
a kingfish. He was governor of Louisiana from nineteen twenty
eight to nineteen thirty two, and then was elected to
the US Senate from Louisiana in nineteen thirty two. He

(01:13):
was assassinated in nineteen thirty five. And don't don't feel
bad if you haven't actually heard of him, because I hadn't.
You hadn't heard of him? You? Yeah? I had, But
that's because was it. John Goodman played a role as
him in the movie The Kingfish. I think it was
John Goodman. That's the other reason I knew about it.
Although you want to know a funny side note, Okay,

(01:36):
so here it is. Anyway, Joe initially was pitching this
story to me a couple of weeks ago, and I
didn't remember who hughe Long was and I got him
completely confused with somebody else in American politics, which would
be James Garfield, al who was assassinated, and I was
I was sitting there going, dude, I don't know how

(01:58):
you're gonna turn the assassin a nation of James Garfield
into a podcast that doesn't work. The only thing that
I know about Garfield is, you know the disgusting stuff
that happened to him after he was shot. You guys
know that, right, No, actually kind of iger to that
what happened. So when he was shot, he was shot
in the stomach and he couldn't eat, so they had

(02:20):
he stayed alive for weeks after the fact. So one
of the things they tried to do to keep him alive,
this is an actual thing. They gave him what are
called nutrient enemas they I think it was peanut butter
they were putting. They were feeding him rectally, which caused
such obscene gas that even the doctors couldn't be in

(02:40):
the room. But I was. I I just couldn't figure
out how you would turn that into a mystery. You know,
it's tied to change the ocast anyway. Yeah, because yeah,
we kind of we kind of tapped out all the
whole unsolved mysteries. This is the last one except for yeah, none,
this is the last one. I checked the internet left

(03:02):
nothing left. Yeah, sorry, folks, Okay, back to our mystery.
He along. Oh yeah, that's right, We're actually doing a
real mystery. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, he he was. He was popular,
he belong was popular with Louisiana. But it's also very polarizing.
You either loved him or you hated him. His detractors
called him, among other things, a dictator, a demagogue, fascist,
and a socialist. Demagogue is like one of my favorite words. Yeah,

(03:25):
this is a good word. What is specifically, what the
definition of demagogue? Because I've seen it used and I
never I've always heard it describe in different ways. Yeah,
I guess the best definition is a demagogue is somebody
who tells I think insightful lies, you know, inciting lies, like,
for example, Al Sharpton. I would I would call Al Sharpton.

(03:47):
Sorry for any Al Sharpton fans out there, but I
would say he demagogues a lot of issues by by
taking taking an issue that's really you know, and and
interpreting it in in an unreasonable way. Do you want the dictionary?
Let me have that. Yeah, it's a noun. It's for
a political leader who seeks support by appealing to popular

(04:08):
desires and prejudices rather than using rational arguments. Okay, that's
probably a better definition than mine. He long achieved his
goals generally through intimidation and bribery rather than just persuasion.
He was basically a machine politician, and he controlled and
appoint appointed people to lots and lots of jobs, and
so he was able to dole out favors to his

(04:30):
his buddies and his cronies and political allies. And that
was pretty common though in that day. Yeah, yeah, very much. So.
He was the picture of a corrupt politician. Yeah. And
he also tried to make life hell for his opponents.
He would he would go out of his way to
get people fired and people who weren't actually speaking at
against them. They just happen to be members of the
family of somebody who across him, and say the family

(04:53):
member thing is what I always just shook my head
at that. Yeah, he was. He was very vindictive. Anyway.
He uh long actually campaign for Roosevelt in nineteen eight
or Exis Meet two I believe it was. But after
he was elected to the Senate, he decided to break
with the Roosevelt administration and he started thinking about running

(05:14):
for the presidency himself. He was a big critic of
the Federal Reserve Bank, and he said that his policies
were the real cause of the Great Depression. And in
that particular instance he might have actually had a point.
I wouldn't agree with Hu Belong on a lot of things,
but anyway, to move on. He was in the Senate
now in nineteen thirty four, and he introduced his bright
idea which called he called share our Wealth. So his

(05:34):
plan was a very radical one to cap personal fortunes
at fifty million dollars limit annually comes to a million dollars,
and cap inheritance. Inheritance says that five million dollars and
then spread all the wealth around. That's your generalmen taken
by the government. I've okay, I've read this a number
of times and they never quite understood. So if I

(05:56):
am making over fifty mill, then anything above that number
the government takes, that's you. That's not your income. The
fifty million is your personal fortune, what you have in assets,
bank account. So you can't be personally worth more than
fifty million dollars. You can't make more than one million

(06:16):
dollars a year, and you can't inherit more than five
million dollars five million in assets. Yeah, yeah, I mean totally. So,
so then what happens What would happen if I made
one point one million? What happens to that point one million?
Does the government then take that and use it however
it deems fit? Is that how this was going to work?
Apparently that's how it was going to work. And I

(06:37):
don't know what I guess. I suppose if say, if
you have a fortune of a fifty million, and so
you make a million bucks that year, I suppose you
don't get to keep any of it, because you know
you can, Otherwise you'd be tacking it onto your personal fortune,
and then you'd have fifty one million. From an economic standpoint,
this is a terrible idea, you know, well, I mean
it encourages people to spend what they make instead of

(06:59):
saving it. Right, it encourages the spreading of wealth, and
it's kind of like the ideal trickle down economics. Right,
it's the pinnacle of encouraging people who have to spend
back into the economy that maybe fuels other people. I
think it's one of those things that in theory it

(07:19):
could could or could not be a good idea. In practice,
there's no way I was gonna say. In practice, it
discourages people from doing things, taking a risk, to do
something that can make gods of money, because then they're
going to be over the limit. And why the hell
would I want to take that risk and make all
that money just to not get just to invest all

(07:40):
that time and effort and my capital to then get
my capital back but then get no return on it
because now I've got too much money. Yeah, and that's
that's an economic theory. There's a whole bunch of stuff there, Brian,
Now we're not here to talk about. Yeah. Obviously, his
his proposal didn't get very far in the Senate, so
he started he started a political organization called the Share

(08:02):
Our Wealth Society, which was essentially like a political party,
and it had twenty seven thousand clubs quote unquote across
the country, and by the time he Long died, the
society had seven and a half million members. So yeah,
it was you know, obviously a lot of people like
that idea. After he went to the Senate, he Long
continued to dominate Louisiana politics. He went back to Baton

(08:25):
Rouge quite often and wrote and lobby for bills. He
never really left them his position as government, not entirely.
You know, when he went he was he would zip
over to Washington for a little bit and then come back,
and apparently the governor succeeded him with whenever whenever he
Long was in town, he Long would just take over
his office. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that went over really

(08:47):
well with him. He was a supporter, so I'm sure
it was one of those things you had to do
for the man who got you the job. But he
also just he'd walk and he'd walk all over everybody
and just yelling, point and holler and dictate to people
what needed to be done when it was not his
position anymore. But He's still a lot of people did

(09:10):
what he told him to do. He still had lots
of influence. Yeah, his consolidation power continued to grow even
though he was no longer the governor, and opposition got
more intense and sometimes even violent. There was actually talking
about armed rebellion, and yeah, he um. In that summer
of nineteen five, he called two more special sessions of

(09:31):
the legislature and passed a bunch of bills and got
his all his cronies in the legislature to pass up
a bunch of bills. They consolidate his control over the
state by creating several new state agencies, wasn't it? What
weren't The bills passed kind of like rapid fire, one
after another, and there wasn't even they didn't even read
the bills voting on it. They just said, okay, next one. Yeah. Yeah,

(09:53):
So let's see what new state agencies he created here.
A State Bond and Tax Board holding soul authority to
approve approve alone to parish and municipal governments. A new
state Printing Board which could withhold quote unquote official printers
status from uncooperative newspapers that was aimed to stop people
who were bashing along. Yeah, so essentially, yeah, and first amendment, Yes,

(10:15):
pretty much a new board of Election Supervisors, which would
appoint all poll watchers. Now that's handy to have on
elections for hand control over all the all the poll
watchers across the state. And also a state board of censors.
He Long controlled all appointments to all these boards, of
course he did. Yeah it do you know? You may
or may not know was the wording of the new

(10:37):
laws specifically and Huey Long or was it and the
Senator of the state in Louisiana only they went through
the Senate, right, But I'm saying lived the bill that
they passed, you know, I did it? Say, I don't
think they did, but I think I think it was.
I think everybody just assumed that hue Long was going
to going to make the appointments or else he was
actually actually the appointments would have been made by the governor,

(11:00):
who I'm sure I would do exactly what. Yeah, so
a nice guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to
go there are lots of other stuff that he did.
I mean, if you've read up in this guy at all,
it's like, yeah, he's kind of a jerk. He was
a flaming jerky. So there's a trail of bodies, so
to speak, behind this guy. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would

(11:23):
not be surprised to find out there's a trail of
real bodies. Actually, one of his, one of his, one
of his political opponents, actually did die in a convenient
train wreck. It's a car train wreck. But that could
have been an accident. It could have been Yeah, it
could have been probably not. Yeah, you know, those happen. Yeah.
In August of nineteen thirty five, Long finally announced that

(11:44):
he was going to run for president the following year.
But a month later, September eight, nineteen thirty five, he
was at the state capitol ramming through a new law,
which is called House Bill number one, which was a
redistric between plan. One of his opponents was a judge
named Henry Povey who served in the sixteenth District judge ship,
and he'd been there since nineteen ten. Is an elected Yeah,

(12:05):
he had been there. Yeah. Uh So the House Bill
number one was specifically meant to change the boundaries of
his district to include more Long supporters so that he
would be out of a job come next election. That
passed about nine fifteen the night of September eight. It
was a long session. Um oh yeah, I forgot one
other thing. Oh yeah. Apparently Long also told Pobby that

(12:26):
he was going to tell everybody in the world that
Pobby's family was tainted with quote coffee blood, unquote coffee blood,
meaning they had there was a there was a black
person somewhere in the family here. Okay, I was going
to say this, this is a Rachel slur, I'm assuming
for the time. Yeah, yeah, and it's like yeah, and
this is Louisiana and the so obviously that it would

(12:48):
be a bigger deal kind of accusation. No, I can
see in context how offensive that would be for an
upstanding for the time, the upstanding white citizen to be
accused of that, just knowing how people were at that time, Yeah,
it was. It was a serious thing then, Yeah, obviously,
but yeah, and some some certain communities that still isab

(13:12):
which is still dumb. But okay, now back to back
to the session. Actually, let's talk about let's talk about
the assassin whose name was Dr Carl Weiss. He was
twenty nine years old. He was Judge Bobby's son in
law and he was at the capital that day, trying
to get to speak to Long, but every time he
would approach him to get a rude brush off from
Long and his bodyguards. How many were there, by the

(13:33):
way the bodyguard I was there were able to find
out exactly how many I got. I got a feeling
there were at least four, if not like six or eight.
I mean there were a bunch of they were all
state troopers. Well, and I remember reading I can't remember
what it was about something a year or two prior
that had caused him to then only travel with bodyguards.
But I had never seen how many there were. Yeah,

(13:54):
I'm not sure either. I'm sure there were. I know
there were at least four. I don't know. That's that's
better than I don't. So I suspect there could have
been a whole bunch of them, because he'll find out
this in a second. Um, yeah he was. He kept
trying to approach Long, and he get rudely brushed off
and Carl Wise A Wise and PM. Just after House

(14:17):
bield number one had passed, Long exited the Legislative chamber
was in the corridor outside, and he was approached by
Wise the third time. Although some some accounts of this
say that Wiss was actually hiding behind a column in
the in the in the corridor, and as as Long
walked by, he popped out. He owned the thirty two
caliber automatic that he usually kept in his car, but

(14:38):
apparently added on him. When he tried to touch a Long,
he got another insulting brush off, at which point he
pulled up thirty two and shot Long from about four
feet away, although there's evidence that if he didn't cheat,
did you shoot Long? And he actually shot him from
like right up close and personal, actually put the gun
to his body and because apparently there were there were

(14:59):
powder burns his jacket. Yeah, we've talked about some of
that before. You do have to be exceedingly closed for
the powder burns to transfer. Yeah, definitely, certainly closer than
four ft. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's like there's a lot
of different witnesses and a lot of different accounts of this.
The bodyguards were turned fire and they shot Wis sixty
two times, which is reasonable. Yeah, he was clearly dangerous. Yeah,

(15:26):
what was it was like thirty some bullets in the
in the torso, five or ten in the head and
the rest in the legs. I mean it's just like
literally riddled with bullets. Yeah, I was a human callandar
at that point. Oh yeah, I think about it is
is that when when when we were the cops at least,
this is the way it seems to happen these days
in this town. Whenever they shoot somebody a bunch of times,

(15:49):
usually about half the bullets miss, if not more. There
was a lot of lead fline around that shots. Yeah, yeah,
that or they just shot like hundred and twenty times.
Well they were automatics, yeah, yeah, maybe they had a
couple of Tommy guns. I don't know, it could have
been that. I don't Yeah, I can't say I remember
seeing something about Tommy guns. But it seems that seems

(16:11):
really excessive for a bodyguard for a U. S. Senator
to be packing around. I mean that's just that's a
lot firepower. Yeah that certainly, yes, Uh, but I have
no idea. Yeah, I think that. I think really probably
you know, they probably shot him about a dozen times
and then just stood over his body and shot him

(16:31):
a bunch more times. Yeah, so basically he died. So
were they not taking care? They were busy shooting? What
was what was Long doing? Did Long die? Immediately he
felt round. No, no, no, yeah he did. He wasn't
dead at that point. He staggered down the corridor and
went down four flights of stairs where he met somebody
and that the name of this person is unknown, but
that's that's. This person drove him to the our lady
of the Lake Sanitarium, which is about a quarter mile away.

(16:54):
That person is always referred to as an associate. Yeah,
I when I when I read your stuff and I'd
read it and I realized I hadn't found it. I
kept trying to find that. It's always an associate. Yeah,
So don't ask me. Did she have a sword for
King Arthur? Seah? Yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah, I can't hear

(17:16):
that without thinking about yeah, yeah, sorry, where are we
at here? Oh? Yeah, yeah, lady. So he was operated
on and patched up, but he died anyway about thirty
hours later. So he belong is dead assassinated? But was
he actually assassinated? Was he? Yeah? That's the mystery. Oh yeah.

(17:40):
The other mystery is what kind of medical treatment did
he get? Was it adequate? Yeah? It was it adequate?
Seems like maybe not. I don't know that that that
that question is right to ask based on what I've read,
but I know we're going to get into it. Yeah,
that's hard to I mean, a bullet to the gut,
it just depends on what it hits and all that stuff.

(18:04):
Back to Hue, he was even though he was popular
with some people, he said, he alienated a lot of
other people, and even in the medical community he had
alienated people, um and so he didn't trust any old
doctor to operate on him or treat him. But there
was a doctor who happened to be in the hospital
at the time, who was a long appointee and then
therefore considered trustworthy, just happened to be there. Yeah. His

(18:26):
name was Art was Arthur of Adrien U and he
was acceptable, even though they were probably far better surgeons
out there. You know, the other surgeons can maybe wanted
to kill Long. So but what I've been shot, I
usually don't squabble about who my doctor is. Yeah, yeah,
Artur Adrien. Doctor Adrine examined Hue Long and decided that

(18:46):
the wound was a through and through wound, one in
the front, back and out to back. Yeah, and he
told Long the surgery was needed, and Long agreed to that,
but he requested a couple of well known surgeons from
New Orleans who were summoned as as his condition was
deteriorating so much it was decided that surgery couldn't wait.
I also remember one of those doctors got weirdly delayed

(19:09):
by a car accident. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah,
one of him couldn't make it because well he was
a fender bender. Yeah, which is a conspiracy. I mean no,
it's not. Sorry, Yeah, the politics is you know, I
think everything in Louisiana at this time, and maybe it's
still this way today, I don't know. Was everything seemed
to be politicized. So anyway, Arthur, doctor of a drine,

(19:31):
became the chief surgeon, and he was assisted by two
other surgeons and as caesiologist was recruited. His name was
Henry McCowen, but he was anti Long, and he had
reportedly said just a couple of days before that if
he ever did any Segon and Huey Long, he would
never wake up. So he said he would do it,

(19:51):
but he stipulated that another doctor had to be right
at the side watching his every move. Spart Man. Yeah,
smart move. Oh and so time time for surgery. But
what didn't they do before surgery? They didn't take any
X rays? Do you know why why? No, I'm asking.
I've never found out why. I don't know why. I mean,
I really can't understand. It seemed to me you'd want

(20:11):
to take an X ray or two and find out
where the bullet is if there's And maybe that's why
they didn't do it. Is maybe they felt like the
doctor concluded it was through and through wounds, so if
he had already decided that the bullet was not in
the body, maybe they didn't need to take the time
to do X rays and was kind of rushing into
the surgery. Six hours between the time that he arrived
and the time he went into surgery. Correct, No, it

(20:33):
wasn't that long, was it? Was it? Not that I
thought it was. Was it three? Or how long was it? Then?
I thought it was like six hours between when he
arrived and when the scalpel touched because he was waiting
for those other doctors. No, actually it was almost two hours. Okay,
well started the surgery. Regardless, two hours seemed like more
than enough time to wheelem into the X ray bay

(20:56):
and at least take a shot. I don't know if
if he thought it was through and through. If there's
a hole in the front and a hole in the back,
where else did the bullet going to be? Why even
bother taking an X ray? Those things are expensive, but
but the thing is that X rays show things, not
just metal, but you do see I mean, granted the

(21:17):
technology wasn't that great at the time, but it would
give you an idea of if there's pooling of blood
in areas of the body. Because he's gonna have to
be in a prone position to take this, not as
if he can stand up, probably show you, like you know,
some ribs got chipped or broken exactly. He's gonna have
been laid out for a while. So I just I
feel like there would have been some information to be

(21:39):
gained from doing the X ray. There were some there
were some strange decisions made regarding this whole surgery. It was.
It was a really, really peculiar thing. Anyway, I'll get
into that. A guy named ed Read wrote a book
about this whole thing, about about the death of Belong.
It was called Requiem for a Kingfish, and he said

(22:00):
necessarily was quote one of the most bizarre and unreal
operating room settings that one could possibly imagine spectators, bodyguards
and medical professionals elbowed each other for space in the
operating room. Unquote, Well, there goes all the sterilists practices.
Some of them some of them were surgical gowns, but
most were in the street clothes. And yeah, just standing

(22:21):
right there in the operating room. It's no wonder he
died this. He did get an infection later. Yeah, but
you know this makes me think of is whenever it's
a big political figure, this kind of garbage happens. I
swear it was something like a similar situation when there
was the attempted assassination of Ono Reagan that a bunch

(22:41):
of people were in the room was being treated. JFK
was the other one. There was a bunch of secret
service in the room. What what where does? Why is
it when you're super super important do we throw out
all of the safety rules. Well, I wonder if the
reason that you have a body guarden there is to
make sure that you know that your person is going

(23:05):
to wake up from anesthesia, right, I mean somebody didn't
snuff him. Yeah, the opportunity. Yeah, that's the thing is
if you're if you're the surgeon or surgeons. In this case,
you probably want to have at least one or two
of Wong's cronies in there to witness it and make sure. Yeah,
that sounded like a house party, Yeah, I know. Yeah,
and it was probably a little over Yeah, I don't.

(23:27):
I don't think any of these people, if they were
in street clothes, I'm sure they didn't like, you know,
scrub or sanitize themselves in so Dr Madrine was assisted
by two other surgeons, one of whom was named Cook.
I can't remember his first name. They opened longing up,
they found it appeared that he hadn't been damaged too badly.
His colon was perforated, so they repaired that and then
they stitched him up and apparently no bullet was found.

(23:49):
But accounts differ on this, yeah quite a bit. Yeah, yeah,
so I'll talk about that in a little bit. Uh.
And Arthur Adrien reportedly said that it was just a
perforation of the intest But then later on another doctor
arrived at the hospital and he told that doctor that
the right kidney was damaged and bleeding, and he was
asked if he'd seen the kidney in Madrid, said that

(24:10):
he had only felt it that. Really it doesn't make
a lot of sense. You know, if you've determined the
k the kid is damaged, but you don't bother doing
any repairs before you close them up. Look at it. Yeah,
I've got the wrinkled eyebrow thing going like, well, yeah,
I know. Well I don't get it either. But like
I said, this is a strange, strange medical situation. And

(24:32):
I read a really long, very scholarly article on this.
I don't know if you guys read that through that thing.
That's quite good. Actually, yeah, it's yeah. And he uh,
he says that it's his apparent that medical practice was
tainted by politics in this case anything, Yeah, he belongs,
condition deteriorated, It was apparent he was losing blood, so

(24:52):
that man, he was bleeding internally. And six hours after surgery,
a blood count was done. It showed the signs that
he was had an action surprising, Yeah, big surprise. Huh.
Hopefully that the surgeons scrubbed in at last before you know,
please at least one person in this Yeah, but the
but the doctors felt that Long was too weak to

(25:13):
withstand another surgery, so they just gave him drugs and
blood transfusion and eventually, thirty hours after he was shot,
he died. Yeah, that's not going to keep I mean,
not for too long unless you can stop the bleeding. Yeah,
I understand him at a doctor, and I understand that
when someone is desperately, desperately ill, the trauma of cutting
them back open and rooting around in their insides is

(25:35):
going to do do more harm than good. Yes, the shock,
it's a very huge shock to your system. But if
if this guy has already got an incision where they've
gone in once, that's not that's not really a new
trauma to cut the stitches. And if all you're going
in to do is say, I know the kidney's got
a perforation, let's stitch it up real quick, I don't

(25:56):
see how. Then again, practice is the time or not
what they are now. It used to be shoved your
hands in there and did everything and juggle all the
guts around, whereas now they've got better tools so they're
not doing all of that. But it just amazes me.
It's like, yeah, you've had three transfusions today and we're

(26:17):
just not going to do anything. Well, I don't think,
I mean, I do think that an incision like that
begins to heal much more quickly than I think you
might think it does. It's not. I don't think it
is a matter of just like stitches and the note,
it's just an opening that's like still there. I think
that you know, it's starting to scap hopefully ideally right,
it's starting to scab over, its starting to heal itself.

(26:38):
Damage that. I'm sorry but to redamage that it's probably
going to do like way more shocked than it would
have been to even kind of open he's gonna have again. Yeah, well,
we have any surgeons out there, why don't you guys
like and let us know. He's probably some guy doing
open heart surgery. Right now, let's listening to our podcast
yelling no, what you're doing? Never saw? Okay, where were

(27:08):
we off topic? Yeah, amazing, I think we're at theories. No,
not quite the one one last interesting little thing here.
No autopsy was done. Yeah, I mean seriously, no autopsy
was done. That would have been actually really helpful, super helpful. Yeah,
but apparently he belongs wife didn't want an autopsy done,

(27:28):
so they didn't do it. So I guess unless we
go to Louisiana and dig up his body and check
for bullets in it. Well, even then I think it's
probably it's probably pretty far calling, right, Yeah. Actually Dr
Karl Weiss's body was exhumed. Why, Yeah, interesting, Well, apparently
apparently they were counting the bullets. Now, they didn't need

(27:50):
to catch the bullets so much that I think they
wanted they wanted to do like blood and tissue samples
or whatever whatever they could and find out if there
was any evidence of anything in his brain that could
have caused him to go around the bend and shoot,
because he really wasn't a violent He wasn't a violent person,
and even though he had somewhat of a motive, it
wasn't a strong motive really, not murder, not for murdering. Yeah,

(28:12):
and and so that that well was it was it drugs,
There was it some sort of mental condition or a
brain tumor or what what costs? And so they so
they dug his body up, and even even though I
found a couple of articles on them exuming the body,
I was not able to ever find anything about what
results that came up with anything That usually means there
was no results of any note that most likely is

(28:36):
what it means. Yeah. So but Yeah, he has not
been dug up as far as I know. He's he's
bared at state capital in Louisiana. By the way, Okay,
he's not carylogenically frozen. And let's jump in your aple
of shovels. We'll find out actually sledgehammers. I think he's
in like a like a marble or grandit crip. I
just want I just bought a new four pound hammer perfectly. Yeah,

(29:00):
I guess it's kind of moving up now. Yeah. I
don't break in graves too often, alright. Theories number one there,
he was assassinated by Karl Wisse, who had he did
have a good documented motive to not like him because
he was gonna put his father in law out of
a job and because he was going to slanders the family. Yeah.

(29:22):
So yeah, yeah, well that's that's that's that that is
an issue because you know, Potty was judge. Potty was
sixty years old at the time of He Belongs murder,
and he was about to actually turn sixty one, So
if it would put him out of a job, it
wouldn't be for that long before his retirement anyway. Aren't

(29:43):
judges like also paid forever? I don't know if you
are they like Congress, and I don't know if at
that time. Yeah, I don't believe in that municipality that
kind of judge would be. I know that in higher
courts they are. That's it. Those are usually really high
kind of federal level. Course. Yeah, of course this wasn't

(30:05):
gonna necessarily put him put him into poverty, because he's
still Guy's still a lawyer, he can still practice law.
So I mean that that wasn't the end of the
world necessarily for Poppy. That's the official that's the official explanation,
is that as that Weiss did it. Actually I read
the Louisiana State Police reopened the case and because some
interesting evidence was found, and so they reopened it and

(30:26):
just went over all the all the evidence again and
concluded it when Karl Weiss was the shooter. So that's
what the official version is. I know that. I know
that when you take tours through that courthouse where all
of this went down, one of the things the tour
guides always do is they always point to a pock
bark in the column and say that's where the bullet

(30:50):
that killed Hughie Long hit the column. And then somebody
actually investigated it. It's not actually a fracture. It's just
a dark spot in the marbles, just an imperfection in
the marble. Yeah, you would think there'd be some bullet
holes unless, unless, of course, the that the State Troopers
bodyguards were really really accurate and then they and they

(31:13):
didn't miss a single shot. But you would think there'd
be a lot of pock marks in the walls. Yeah, okay,
so much for that theory. Uh theory number two, Oh boy, Yeah,
this is a fun one. Karl Weiss was an assassin
for the International zion Zionist Conspiracy FDR. Actually Franklin Roosevelt
and or his cabinet was involved. Also, I got this

(31:35):
from the guys over at jew Watch, which is a
website that I stumbled across while researching this story. This
is this is a fantastic Please note sarcasm. Yeah, yeah,
it is. It really is just a bunch of paranoid
you know, anti Semitic ravings and back to back to
these guys said putting a jew Watch quote. Long was

(31:55):
assassinated because he was one of the most charismatic leaders
of the nineteen thirties and he was going to run
for president. He could easily have defeated Roosevelt and would
have put international jewry back two hundred years. That's and
that's again, that's what that's what these guys are saying.
I don't know how. I mean, I guess because Huey
Long was going to attack capital, that's what he was doing.

(32:19):
And he was going to spread the money around, yeah,
out decentralize it. Yeah yeah. And and so since that since,
of course, according to people like this, I'm not saying this,
of course, but according to people the people that you watch,
since the Jews have all the money, then obviously they
don't want to have it taken from them. Many terrible,
terrible things. And Okay, I'm gonna hold my tongue and

(32:42):
just say, yeah, yeah, I just I'm just throwing this
one in for fun, just because and just what sore
listeners know. I don't actually regularly patronize this website on
their forums now. But also they claimed that Dr Arthur
Vidrine you remember him, the guy who operated on Belong Yeah, yeah,
they claimed he was also Jewish and that he deliberately

(33:04):
botched the operation. So this is a pretty a pretty
amazingly well run operation that apparently these these Zionist conspirators
and put together. Yeah, I know, anathing It's like, you know,
I mean, if you want to talk to it's it's interesting,
you know, these guys that run websites like this and
say stuff like this. They apparently don't like Jews because

(33:26):
they think they're an inferior race apparently, and yet at
the same time, it's like, wow, those Jews. Is there
anything they can't do? Yeah, there there is a bit
of a juxtaposition. Yeah, a little bit. Okay, before we
move off in that theory. From that theory, I just
want to reiterate that, No, I don't think that the
Zionists the Jews were behind the murder off he be Long.
Do you guys disagree with me? Not at all. I'm

(33:47):
in complete agreement that I'm shocked this has even even
made the show, to be honest, that's how silly I
think this is. Well, you know, I like, yeah, it is.
It is absurd. But I I I appreciate Joe following
our our guideline of we will talk about any theory,
no matter how ridiculous. Yeah, yeah, it's what's so, what's next?

(34:11):
Oh next theory? Uh? He be Long was killed by
his bodyguards. I'll get on board with this one right
off the bat. Yeah, after all, there were a lot
of bullets flying around as some versions of this story
say that Weiss did not even have his gun on
him and he just punched long in the face. Oh yeah,
apparently he belonged to have a split lip when he
showed up at the hospital. Yeah. Uh. And also you

(34:35):
know that if he had a bullet bullet wound in
the front and the back he was shot by at
thirty two a c P. That's a pretty anemic round.
I mean, maybe it could have made it all the
way through and out the back side. What what is it?
I don't know my guns set? Well. Can you give
another gun that that caliber would be equivalent to? I
mean's that like a nine millimeter slightly different, much much

(34:56):
smaller than a nine. It's bigger than a twenty two,
bigger lightly so it's slightly bigger than a two. Yeah,
just just simply put yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
It's it's it's you know, it's it's a deadly round.
I mean everything, but it's not. I mean, I've shot
hay Bales with a twenty two that have popped out
the other side though, Yeah, hay bales, hey bale's yeah,

(35:19):
I mean, it's not a human body. I'm sorry, what
was the last time you dealt with a hay bale?
Those things are packed super super tight. A machine packs
a hay bale. That's dense material. I just shot an
arrow through a hay bale this weekend. So sorry, I'm sorry.
I'm just saying. I'm just saying, like, you know, what

(35:42):
is it you guys hate hay bales? Yeah? Sorry, Bill
hate over here? No, I mean I think that the
point is is that a thirty two is not it's
it's not a huge counts not likely to go all
the way through a human body, particularly from four feet away, right, Yeah,
maybe blank doesn't lose that in the four ft between
the muzzle and the body. It's not going to lose

(36:05):
that much velocity. It's really hardly anything, and so I'm
kind of doubtful that it could have actually overpenetrated. Overpenetrated
means go through and through, right, Yeah, that's what it
means over and that's what the That's what I mean.
How how frequently do you know, handgun caliber kind of
bullets go through a body. It's not it's not as
super common occurrence as it caliber. Yeah, yes, sorry, you know,

(36:28):
nine millimeters even, yeah, you know, nine millimeters even. I
don't think go all the way through that often. Yeah, yeah, So,
I mean, obviously back in these days, this was before
the invention of hollow points, and so there would have
been a full jacketed bullet would have traveled further, but
I still doubt that it would have gotten gone all
the way through. Maybe it did, but as no bullet
was found in the operation, over penetration is the most

(36:51):
likely possibility. Except one of the assisting surgeons did say
that a small caliber bullet was removed during surgery. Do
you do you want talked about that now a little bit? Well?
And then and then somebody else said that an object
was found, but it was actually fecal matter. I heard
that the Yeah, And so there's a lot of different

(37:13):
there's a lot of different versions of this. Another the
same doctor supposedly removed another bullet from Long's body at
the funeral home after he died. His body was taking
to a funeral home and apparently he took a bullet out. Then,
wasn't there's something about this guy? He had a safe
deposit box and his family owned it and said that
the bullet was in there, and the investigators somehow got

(37:36):
into it and discovered it wasn't even from a thirty eight.
Does this sound familiar to you? Well? Now? Was or
is that somewhere later on? Yeah? I think what you're
thinking about is there was the the Louisians and the
Louisiana State Bureau of Criminal Investigation. The head of it
at this time was a guy named General L. F.
Gare and he apparently had a bunch of this evidence,

(37:57):
including the gun and the bullet and and a bullet
and and six cartridges in his possession, along with some
files and photos and other stuff. His daughter eventually inherited
or something and wound up in a safety pozza box
and eventually want it turned up. There was a big
custody battle between Karl Weiss's son and her over who
got to keep them in the pistol and which Carl

(38:18):
Weiss want Carl Weiss Jr. One so he got the gun.
But anyway, they but of course they analyzed the gun
and the bullet. There was a single fired slug found
with it alone with the six on fired cartridges, and
they tested the gun and then and then and then
the slug and they didn't match. So so who knows
where that where that fired bullet came from. It's it's

(38:39):
a puzzle, yeah yeah. Arthur Vidrine, surgeon, later said that
Long actually had two bullets in them in him, one
of which was the thirty eight, which is strange because
he didn't say anything about finding a bullet at the time.
So there's a disagreement on this. Even if he found
a single bullet, obviously it eliminates over penetration, so he

(39:00):
would have had to have been shot twice. Yeah, him, right.
Isn't it possible, though, if let's run on the theory
that it's point blank, that Wise could have pulled the trigger.
If it's an automatic, it could have gotten two shots off.
If it's a point blank it's essentially going to be
one entry wound. If they're in rapid succession, one over

(39:23):
penetrates or goes through and the other one bounces around
and lodges somewhere. I mean, isn't that a possible scenario?
They're saying two shots but one bullet hole, one entry wound,
one entry wound, because that seems unlikely. But I guess
it's I mean, theoretically, if you walk up to a
guy and you jam it into his his gut and

(39:45):
you pull the trigger and it automatically fires two rounds
in a row, they're gonna be almost identical locations for entry.
Perfect theory. It is not. I get that, but I
know people are gonna say, well, but it could have
all come through one location. I guess technically, I don't know.
If I don't think an automatic handgun is the same.

(40:08):
I mean, I don't think you think of it as
a It's not just gonna like fire multiple right, it's not.
But if you pull it fast enough, they damn near
to go off at the same time, if you can
get a quick squeeze onf that's true. Yeah, but he's
supposedly according to a one biography of hube Along, which

(40:28):
was pretty exhaustibly research, apparently he did get off two shots,
this guy claims, but one of the one of the
bullets hit one of hue Lung's bodyguard bodyguards in the wristwatch.
Apparently the wristwatch stopped the bullet, or at least slowed
it down. Yeah, and so since they found a pistol
magazine that went with the gun with six cartridges in
it and again only holds seven in the magazine. Assume

(40:52):
he had he didn't have one chambered as he had.
If he had one chamber, then he would then he
got off. Yeah, he got off two rounds, one of
which hit the guy in the wrist, the other one
which hit hit Huey Huey long m. Of course, I'm
not even convinced that the gun had eight rounds in
it and all, with all the bullets flying, is it's
it's entirely possible that the guy got hit in the
wrist by somebody else's bullet. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I would

(41:15):
not be at all surprised by that. So but at
the most, he got off two rounds, not a not
a lot really should have Well anyway, I'll talk about
that later. Another possibility is that Carl Carl Weiss did
shoot him, but just once and then the other bullet
hole in the back was courtesy of one of the
security guards. A lot of guards, so they weren't entirely

(41:35):
accurate like we've been presuming they were. So there were
there were two entry wounds and two bullets in him
which could have been causing some internal bleeding that they
didn't find necessarily after the first exploratory surgery. Yeah, yeah,
two entry wounds. You presume one of them has got
of the exit wounds, so you track between them to

(41:55):
try to find the bullet. That would make sense. Apparently
there actually is evidence that Wise didn't have the gun
on him. Uh. I got named Donald Pobby was the
nephew of Judge Pobby, which would make him I guess
Karl Weiss's cousin or something. Yeah, he wrote a book
about this, laying had his theory that the bodyguards did it,
and he said the gun was taken from Weiss's car

(42:16):
put at the murder scene after the shooting by the
state troopers and he he interviewed at what Tommy had Wise,
who was Karl Weiss's brother, who had gone down to
the legislature when you heard about the bruhaha going down
there and going on down there, and he saw Karl
Weiss's car park there. It was locked, and he looked
in the window and he saw that the gun was
in the love box. Apparently it was didn't have the

(42:37):
door shut or something, and that maybe glove boxes in
those days didn't have little doors. On him, some of
them didn't. Yeah, apparently, But apparently he was in the
habit of keeping it in a sock in his glove
box of his car. That's not uncommon. No, no, he
doesn't do that. Well, No, keeping a gun in the
sock is something that could do to keep him oiled. Yeah, absolutely,
keep from getting all scratched up. But apparently he went

(42:59):
back later to the to the car and the car
had been moved and apparently been broken into ranstaft and
the gun was missing. That could have been random, but
it could have been random too. But apparently all of
the theories are built on interviews and affidavits he got
from people who were either at the capitol or in
the hospital that night. So there was a nurse who

(43:20):
was in the operating room when Long was brought in,
and she said that the senator had a lacerated lip,
and she said that the doctor asked, what is that
on your lip? And Long answer, Oh, that's where he
hit me, which sort of buttresses the theory that Karl
Weisse hit him and didn't shoot him. Do we know
wise was I'm presuming right handed? I don't know, And well,

(43:42):
Long was shot in the left side. He was shot
in the right side, the right side, Yeah, which doesn't
necessarily make well, yeah, I know that kind of makes
sense when you think about from left to right. You know,
it's almost like shaking hands. You would hit somebody on
that Side's okay, I wonder do we on what side
of the face the this the abrasion was on his

(44:03):
lip or the Okay, there was not abrasition. It was
like it was it was split and right the split lip.
I mean, was it on his left or is right?
Because what I'm trying to figure out is was it
a matter of well, again I'm this is conjecture, but
I'm just trying to figure it out. Is did Wise
walk up and take a swing at him and sock
him in the lip and then pull out a gun

(44:24):
to add insult to injury and shoot him in the gun?
Or okay, well if he was right handed and then
he hits him in the face and it ends up
on the left hand left half to his face, you
know either where I'm going here, Like I'm trying to
corroborate this in human factors, Yeah, I don't. I don't

(44:44):
think he would have had time. I mean, his body
bodyguards you right there, He wouldn't have had time to
punch him in the face and then pull a gun.
I agree with that. You're talking about punching him and
then while holding again on the other hand. Yes, oh,
I see what you're saying. Yeah, so you've got you've
got the gun in one hand, you sock him and
shoot m Yeah, that's that's that's possible. But I know
it's also possible that he just biffed him in the

(45:05):
face and the bodyguards were angry and one of him
shot him. The guys that started blazing away too. Yeah,
and you know, shoot sixty one times ask questions later. Yeah,
I mean, and I know it's it's unheard of for
cops to shoot into some people multiple times and then
live about it later. Yeah. I think I think the

(45:27):
uh story, anecdotal evidence would suggest that he would have
just hit him in the face. Really, I mean more
than you know, that's a that's a punishment more befitting
the crime. I think a punch to face, not two
shots to the gut, yeah, not one or two shots
the guy. Yeah. So what other evidences is this this

(45:48):
poppy guy put out here? Uh? He has an affidavit
from a guy named Francis Grobenberg or Grepenberg, who was
superintended to stay police in nineteen fifties in Louisiana. He
told of a story when he was with four state troopers. Um,
he said, and he actually wrote about this in his
memoir because he wrote a book. He served and served

(46:09):
in World War two, and and you know, and and
then he spent a bunch of time battling crime syndicates
in Louisiana. So he wrote a memoir about this. And
so he repeated that. And there also he said that
these troopers have been we're talking about how Wise is
gonna have been taken from his car after the shooting.
And then he said, and uh, this is a quote
from his book. And then I made a mistake, Ravenburg said.

(46:30):
I said, it appears to me that all the actions
following the shooting were conspiracy to cover up the accidental
death those Senator Long and the killing of Dr Wise.
Continuous quote. After I made that unfortunate statements, the bodyguards
became very quiet. Um. So interesting story of true. Well,
although some some people that put out the theory that
those guys were just repeating a story that have been

(46:50):
circulated by anti Long politicians that his bodyguards have killed
him and gotten the book, so it's it's it's kind
of up in the air, so to speak. Yeah. Uh.
There was also one of the bodyguards was named Delmas
Sharp and his son, Delmas Sharp Jr. Uh said his
dad once talked about Long's death prior to a meeting

(47:12):
that to the two of them had with another bodyguard.
His name was Joe Messina, and after the meeting his
dad his dad said to him, well, that's Joe Messina,
the killer. Donald Povey look and the author of this
book said he also spoke to members of the Murphy
Roden family. Murphy Roden was one of the bodyguards also, Yeah,
a lot of bodyguards. Yeah, and uh, of course he's

(47:34):
long since passed on, but they said that they they understand.
Their understanding is that Roden accidentally shot Long. And he
also got some testimony from the son of a reporter
who was an eyewitness to the shooting apparently said the
same thing. So it looks like maybe a cover up.
I don't know. So my verdict on this is that
Donald Pobby is probably right. At the time, as I've
already said this, Judge Pobby was really kind of nearing

(47:56):
retirement age anyway, Um, he could wasn't true a career
killer at that. I just want to talk nostalgically for
a second about the days at which sixty one was
retirement age. Oh yeah, I don't intend to ever retire
because there's not going to be no retirements. No, there ain't.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, sixty one, I don't know

(48:17):
what's retirement age it was, yeah, yeah, but yeah, by
the time you retire, it's going to be about eighty probably. Yeah.
Generally in those in those in those days, you didn't
necessarily retire. You just worked till you died, which was
sixty which is well, the people who lived at those
old ages were the ones who worked until they died. Yeah. Yeah, so.

(48:40):
But the other the other reason I doubt this is
that obviously it would be suicidal to pull a gun
and shoot Huey Long when he surrounded by a bunch
of guys that are armed to the teeth. Yeahs does
seem a bit off. Yeah. He had a wife and
he had a very young infant son, you know, so
obviously had plenty to live for. It doesn't really make
sense when you think about, of course, again, if there

(49:00):
was a brain tumor or something like that evolved maybe
I guess something that altered his rational thinking. Yeah, but
they when they dug his body up, they didn't find
any evidence that. Of course, after all these years, who
knows how much it be left to look at um.
But the other thing I find kind of that kind
of kills it for me for him being a shooter,
is that he was shooting a semi automatic gun. And

(49:20):
if he had to drop on long and if you
really intended to kill him, why did he fire once
and possibly twice when he could have emptied the gun
into him in about about a second. And also why
did he aim in his gut? Yeah? But his head
or yes, I think, yeah, I think that he. Uh.
People overestimate the killing power of guns all the time,

(49:41):
but four feet isn't that far away. I mean, I mean,
it's a gun. You know you're aiming in the general direction.
It's going to hit in the general direction. Yes, okay, fine,
you're not aiming for the head, but at least like
the upper chest area, right, not the like I'm going
to shoot you in the stomach that'll kill you. You
tend to misjudge things like that. I mean, a handgun

(50:04):
is very very subjective to angle that it's been the
angle that it's being held at. But have you ever
goofing around, grabbed water pistol and scored at somebody and
you're like, I'm gonna shoot him in the face and
then you shoot him in the knee. I'm a good shot.
Well this is not take your time draw and hold.
It's just like pull it up and start squeezing the trigger.

(50:26):
People do this. I mean, there's all kinds of videos
of people like I'm gonna totally just draw really fast
and I'm gonna shoot that target. Instead they shoot the
ground two feet in front of him. But yeah, no,
I understand that that's fair. But I think Joe's point
is also fair, Like why wouldn't you just Joe said that, right,
why wouldn't you empty? Yeah? Yeah, no, no, I there's

(50:47):
totally makes sense. There is, I mean there is. There
was some note in the in the files of the
Louisiana State Police that one of the bodyguards knocked the
gun down. It was originally pointed towards Long's chest and
he knocked it down and so he shot him in
the gut instead. Um, but I still, you know, I don't.
I still don't see why he didn't shoot him a
couple more times, you know, or if a bodyguard was

(51:09):
that close, why how sixty two bullets went into him? Well,
one of them went into the bodyguard who was right there,
into his watch. Yeah, could be that's where the watch shot.
Incredible and gender yeah, they you know, apparently hint this.
I think the bodyguard was Murphy Road. And if I'm not,

(51:32):
if I'm not, I'm not even correct. He managed to
wrestle wrestle him away from Long and shove him up
against the wall. And I guess at that point he
backed away from m enough so everybody else could open
fire on him. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they aired
him out pretty good. And my only other theory would
be that maybe it was an assassination after all, and

(51:54):
and one or two of he was bodyguards shot him.
I Well, when I did the the reading into the
medical research that's been done on on this case, the
one thing that I've found that was really intriguing is
in your gut. You know, your your gut has cavities
inside of it. It's not as if all of your

(52:16):
organs and everything are pushed into one giant, solid mass
there peanuts and yeah, the styrofoam packing peanut. Yeah no,
but there's there's voids where there is not an organ,
and those voids, based on how you know where you

(52:38):
are in the lower regions of the abdomen, there can
be folds in it. One of the things that I
found is I cannot I wish I could, but I
cannot remember the name of the interior lining of the gut.
Not your stomach or your intestine, but just your interior
abdomen wall, the lining of that the parrot and thank you,

(53:01):
that's the word I knew. It started with a p Okay. Well,
it's possible that that can have folds on itself. And
some of this research said that when Long was shot,
he was actually shot through an area that had a fold.
And here's the easy way to think about it. Take
a piece of paper and fold it in half and

(53:22):
poke a hole in it. Unfolded, and you've got an
entry and an exit wound. Take a new piece of paper,
fold it in half and then folded on in half
again on itself, and then poke a hole through it
and unfolded, and now you've got four holes. So the
doctors may have seen what they considered the entry and

(53:44):
the exit wound, so they dealt with those, But these
other two holes are not in necessarily gonna be where
they're looking, and so those are perforations, which would then
cause blood loss, which would balls internal bleeding. Yeah, so
that's completely plausible because I mean it's not a straight

(54:05):
line inside yet, it's not a solid surface. Obviously they're
either they're they missed something something that was bleeding. They
missed it big, or maybe they're repaired to the intestine.
It's just just didn't quite hold. I don't know. And
also that's that's completely a normal to stitch up intestines,
and intestines are like tissue paper. Yeah, they're not strong

(54:31):
for all the crap that they hold pun intended, they're
not all that strong. Yeah. That probably can't use suture.
You're probably gotta use duct tape on them, I think, yeah, yeah,
I think they do. Actually, yeah. Yeah. The the other
thing about about the surgery, I forgot to mention this
at the time, but apparently, you know, as as always

(54:51):
when you get shot in the colon, a certain amount
of fecal matter gets you know, spread around the inside. Yet, right,
and apparently there's not much of that's that they actually
irrigated and then which would have caused affection, easily causes
an affection. Yeah, so yeah, it's medical care is probably
not the most competent. But yeah, but also I don't

(55:13):
I don't know that White shot him. Yeah, I was
gonna say the medical care may not have been perfect,
but if you have twenty crazy haired bodyguards and he
was breathing down your neck, what you do? Yeah, when
was the last time you had somebody sitting at your
desk while you were working and you kept screwing up
because somebody was watching you. I mean, think about that

(55:36):
when you now have a scalpel in suitures and somebody's
life is in your hands, and you're not a very
good doctor to begin with. Yeah, Dr Vdrine was like,
I'm not going to call him incompetent, but I don't
think he was really qualified for this kind of surgery. No,
he I don't think he'd ever done this kind of
surgery being I don't think he had any gunshot. I
don't think he ever did. Again, Yeah, with the reason,

(55:58):
I agree, So so, yeah, just unfortunate for old Hughie.
But you know, I think he was and I really,
it is possible that maybe some anti Long guys had
gotten a mole into his his balance of bodyguards, and
the guy was just waiting for the opportunity when, you know,
some some big hassle came up, something came up, were
gave an opportunity to go and shoot Hue a few times.

(56:20):
Maybe that's what happened. Now Joe is making filler. Yeah,
pretty much. Yeah, I think we're done here. I think
might be kind of done. You guys want to take
a vote. What do you think I think Hue Long died? Yeah?
Do you think he died of an accidental shooting or
do you think he was assassinated by Karl Weiss? Both? Really,
I don't know what that beats. I think it was

(56:40):
an accidental shooting by his bodyguard. It was I think
his bodyguard did it, not not waste, Yeah, that's kind
of what I think. I don't know if it was
or not, but the split lip kind of indicates it.
Weiss sucked him in the mouth, yeah, for being a
jerk to him. Yeah. Yeah, and then the guards went
nuts and shot him, you know. And so that's kind

(57:01):
of what I'm thinking. Too, too bad for Wise and yeah,
and his wife and his kid, and his and his family,
his family than anybody. Yeah. Yeah, terrible thing. And obviously
obviously his son Karl Weiss and other other family members
and relatives are still trying to clear his name. It's
hard to say it that. I think more people are
convinced that Weiss was innocent than not personally, but the

(57:23):
official line is that Weis did it. So yeah, that's
that's really hard to change. It is really hard to
change without without the smoking bullet, you're you're smoking gun? Yeah,
I think so too, But I after all the reading
I've done on this, I'm pretty certain that Weiss did
not shoot. Yeah, he'd be long anyway. That's about it. Um,
do you guys have any more thoughts on this? So

(57:45):
and another successfully solved mystery? Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey yeah.
So you probably want to know more about us, so
you can check us out at our website Thinking Sideways
podcast dot com, where you can leave comments check links.
You can also listen to episod it's from there if
you're probably more likely getting us from iTunes, So if
you are and d doing that, if you haven't done

(58:07):
this already, please subscribe and give us a review. Preferably
a good review. We like those a lot better. I
started streaming us. You can stream us from god knows
how many websites these days, right, yeah, the stop counting. Yeah, yeah,
we're on Facebook. Where what are we? We're thinking Sideways
podcast on Facebook? Right, just thinking side search thinking Sideways

(58:28):
podcast on Facebook. You'll find the page and the group.
Oh yeah, I don't forget the group. The group is
insane right now, super super busy, big on that sober
over the story that we released this week, which it's great. Yeah,
we like that. There's a lot of awesome discussion. Yeah,
I really I love the group because we don't really

(58:49):
have to do so much. Sometimes we can just watch
all this stuff happen and then just go and make
a comment and then just watch everybody just it's like
we're not even there. It's it's fantastically how much work
these people do, how into it they are. Yeah, I know,
And pretty soon they're gonna be having, like a few

(59:09):
more years ago, all these people are gonna get together
and they're gonna start having conventions and stuff'll be like
comic Con. Yeah, yeah, they'll they'll be selling you know,
my scalp, the version of my bald head. Yeah, a
little bit of foes on it. Yeah yeah, yeah uh,
and there will be action figures. Speaking of selling stuff,

(59:34):
the website also has the merchandise on there. I forgot
about that. Yeah, there's a little picture now that says
merchandise little links you can go out and buy merchant
Zazzle correct, yes, yeah, what else have you got? Twitter?
We are on Twitter. We are Thinking Sideways. That's without
the g and uh. Last of all, if you want
to set us an email, then you can send us

(59:55):
one at Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. And
that's about it for all the information. Um and he
last thoughts you guys, h alright, no, yeah, I know.
So we've been just as a heads up, we've been
talking a lot about death and murder lately, so we're
gonna change it up a little bit probably and talk

(01:00:15):
about I don't know what, the tooth fairy probably yeah,
something salamanders. Yeah, I've seen some really cool salamanders this week,
so we're talking about salamanders. Yeah. Cool, that works for me. Cool. Alright, Well,
so that's it for this week. So long, everybody see
you in a week. We'll talk to you next week. Guys,
Hi guys,