Thinking Sideways: El Chupacabra!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you
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(00:46):
sideways and talk space dot com slash sideways T A
L K, S P A C E. Thinking. Well, hey there,

(01:15):
and welcome again to another episode of thinking Sideways. I
am Steve as usual, joined by Oh, I think that's
the first time that is stumping on somebody's toes and
I don't know who it is. Well, what happened is
Steve usually or any of us will look at whoever
we want to call out. Second, and he shifted his

(01:36):
eyes to me and then quickly to Devon, no, I
looked at the gun on the wall. He was looking
at you, but pointing at me. It was just yeah, okay,
so let's do this again for the world. I am Steve.
I am joined by Joe and Devin. There we go.
The confusion was I looked upwards and not at one
would think we haven't been doing this for five years.
Act has never happened. It has, but I think we

(01:59):
cut it out. Okay, Well, listen, hey, we're as always
going to talk about a mystery this week, but this
week it is extra extra special because we are gonna
talk about everyone's favorite cryptid. So, as always, this is

(02:21):
a listener suggestion, but the CHUPI has been suggested by
each and every one of you at some point. So
just imagine I'm saying your name right now. Yeah, here
it is. Yeah, that was your name right there in
the blank spot. Yea, and our heart was saying your
name and um, now hey before Normally what we do
is we jump right into the story, but we're not

(02:43):
going to do that because listen, there is some important
information that we want to share with you news about
the show, but we're going to save that to the
very very end. And for those of you who are
chronic fast forwarders, once the theory section is closed, don't
do that. Listen. We've been shaming for years for doing that,

(03:04):
but stop doing that, but today especially, don't do it. Yeah, don't. Okay.
So that having been the covered, shame dolled out appropriately,
let's talk about our dear friend Choopy. By the way,
did did I forget to mention this is our five
year anniversary? Did it? Is? I did forget? Because forget

(03:25):
it's our anniversary. We forgot the anniversary here in the doghouse.
Mr Well, I forget to mention it, not that I
forgot it? What about this, Joe? Stop it? Okay, So
let's talk about our dear dear friend, the choopy. Yeah,
so the start of the beginning. The Chupacabra is a
cryptid that was originally and by that I mean originally

(03:49):
cited in the late seventies or early eighties in that
region of north to central I guess, to the north
to Sound in America, which ranges from Texas down to
um to Mexico. So those are the would be North America.
Is it still technically North America not Central America? No, no,

(04:13):
Texas is not Centralphy has never been my my strong
suits coologize. Okay, Well, the point is is that our
little buddy was sited in that region, and at the
same time, this little cryptid had also been sited on
the island of Puerto Rico's not so little in some settings.
We'll get there, we'll get there. Don't jump ahead for

(04:35):
those of those you who don't know though, Puerto Rico
if you're not up on your nation's in geography and
all good, good information. State in Mexico right now. It's
part of America. Is important. It's technically part of the
United States. It's one of the many Caribbean islands run
kind of southeast from the tip of Florida towards southeast

(04:59):
towards south of Erica. Now today, officially, as we're recording this, officially,
Puerto Rico is an unincorporated U. S territory, and that
information that that status will play into the story later.
But I will say that I just heard something that
in there's another vote on the books to make Puerto

(05:20):
Rico the fifty first state. So maybe that will alleviate
some of the tension that we're going to talk about. Yeah,
I don't, but as of today, don't don't send us
an email. In a year and a half, there's a
state you do do do fiz is No, we don't
know that yet. Okay. So during the seventies and the
eighties when the initial Chuby sidings happened to be went

(05:42):
by the name of l Vampiro de Moca, which is
the vampire of Mocha, and Mocha is a small town
in Puerto Rico, yep. Also a delicious drink you can
occasionally be. Yes, I haven't known to consume one of
those spelled differently, but yeah, there's the is also that.
And while Chupy hadn't been cited, his handiwork, of course

(06:04):
had and that handiwork was livestock like sheep or goats
or chickens or family pets had all been found dead
and most notably drained of their blood. And I'll be
honest at this point that I don't know if in
the seventies and the eighties the signature mark of the
Chupa cabra was present or not. But that signature mark

(06:28):
is a three whole, a triangular shaped set of holes
in the neck of the animal with the point of
the triangle pointing down. So each of those, what's the
the three points? Imagine? Do you imagine that the apex
is by the way, but a creater with like two
fangs on the top and just one thang in the

(06:49):
middle of something like that. That's kind of scary. How
that noise? Yeah, I thought that was that's the noise. Actually,
that is way better than the noise that I heard
on the internet for the Chupacabra. It was terrible. We'll
we'll get George put in place. So the Chupacabra, though,

(07:09):
did not become a household name until he was on
the TV reality show road Rules in I thought, I
thought back further than that. Well, actually, okay, so a
Choopy wasn't on road Rules on MTV the first year
it came out, but Choopy did go back farther, but

(07:31):
Chuopy did become a household name in And that is
the year that more and more people started to see
and learn about a little Crypti Bud. The official and
I'm going to use air quotes here, the official original
sighting unquote took place in in Puerto Rico, and it

(07:53):
was when a woman named Madeleine Tolentino saw this strange
creature outside of her home run one night, and she
started telling everybody about it. So what did the critter
that she saw look like? Of course? Yeah, yeah, but well, okay,
so I'm going to tell you what she said she saw,
and then I'm going to have to tell you all

(08:15):
the other versions of what the chupa cabra looks like.
Because the chupacabra has evolved over time, as all creatures do,
it's just in a very short amount of time. Unlike antrobiology,
the sightings are after dark, after all, that woul account
for some of this probably, yeah, and and and to
be fair here, um, you know, we're talking about official

(08:35):
sightings named the chupacabra or it's known predecessor, the Vampire
of Mocha. But realistically, there have been reports of cryptids
that are like this dating back millennia basically, right, I
mean there are there's been tribal stories and things like
that about the creatures. Nowhere they're nowhere near is concrete, right,

(08:56):
That's and that's why I say the kind of a genus.
It's kind of unique in that there's there's stories going
back of animals being drained of blood. But there's no consistency.
This is where suddenly a consistency of loosely granted, but
a loose consistency of what the creater looks like it
starts to happen. I just want to make sure that
people know it wasn't like chupacabra sprung fully formed. I agree,

(09:23):
but there in the American history Western sphere history true. Yeah, Okay,
So what what Madeline's siding said the creature looked like
was that the creature was several feet tall, had large
eyes and spikes or spines depending on the version, running

(09:43):
down the length of its back. And so basically what
she described was a large upright lizards slash bug eyed
alien creature. The arms that they were longish, know, more
than you would expect on a normal proportioned creature of
this plan it, and the arms ended in hands that

(10:04):
had large sharp claws on them. Okay, So that's that's
the general gist of her description, and that took off
like wildfire, and suddenly more and more and more people
around Puerto Rico began to say that they had seen this,
and suddenly choopy fever was everywhere. Did did they say

(10:27):
anything about the eyes are in the beginning they were
big eyes, but nothing about the color initially. The color
seems to come in later and later. But but basically
what happens is that she tells the story, it gets
on the news, and choopy fever takes off. So take that, John,

(10:49):
Paul Ringo and George, you guys suck the picture by
the end anyway, true, true, But this this creature has
no fur, are very little for on its body. And yeah,
well then the scaling scene is kind of gray maybe green,
which is very weird, and that makes sense for that area, well,

(11:11):
it kind of does. But and the other thing is
that it doesn't have Okay, so the hands, the description
of the hands morph. They go from what we would
consider a normal hand with five fingers to a hand
that is yeah, mad graining style hand where it's only
got three fingers total including the thumb. Graining has three

(11:33):
fingers plus. That's fair, that's fair. Okay, So it's no no, okay,
So if we're gonna say it's got a thumb, it's
got two fingers and a thumb, okay, with dinosaur the
hind of dinosaur esque, that's not we're there yet, not
there yet back all right, so that is what Magdalene's
initial version sort of evolved too. But from there the

(11:57):
chiope of cobra changed form and he began to evolve
in more and more descriptions. The chupacabra became a strange
kind of upright lizard creature that then became some sort
of naked or bald kangaroo like creature like the big
giant hoppy legs, but at the same time had wings

(12:18):
like weirdly little or medium sized, leathery bat style wing
where they you know, flight and docing or really too
little for flight. They appeared to be flight inducing or
at least gliding wings because somebody reported that the chupacabra
flew out of the trees and attacked them as they
were running away, kind of like Ingrid. What's that guy

(12:40):
from years ago, the story we did Ingrid Cold? Yeah, yeah,
something like that. But yeah, I mean it could kind
of gliding wings. Maybe you can't actually fly, but he
can glide, right, So flying squirrel doesn't actually fly and glide,
so it's the same theory as it's kind of a
gliding chupicabra, right, okay later, sorry, And wings that are
separate from arms, right, correct, correct the yes. From there,

(13:07):
the creature would move moreph again into something that is
more of a dog like form. And sometimes this dog
would stand on two legs. Sometimes it would stand on four.
When it was on four, it could be standing up
to four ft high. You know, a four ft tall
dog is a big dog. Yeah. And now if it's

(13:27):
a dog standing up on its hind legs and it's
four ft high, well that's your average you know, chihuahua
on steroids, so that's not so big. But still yeah,
I know I'm joking. Don't give me that look, but
it's it's it's still a big critter if it's upright,
Because not a lot of dog shaped animals, well not
a whole lot of animals in this world are bipedal,

(13:51):
So you can see why this story is kind of
really gets people going. But that's not the only version.
There is yet another version of the chooper crop. But
that says it is more monkey like and it has
a lot of hair, or at least it has a
lot of hair on its arms, So that might account

(14:11):
for more of the flying out of the trees on
somebody like, less flying and more jumping to land on
a person because it just flings behind them and looks
like yeah. Well and listen, monkeys are known to jump
out of trees onto people or things. If they don't
like you, they will jump on you and slap you,
or if they like you, they'll jump on you and
love you. Yeah. It's kind of a weird, like confused

(14:34):
with the message. Yeah, I'm just saying I don't know
which is better, but well, it depends on your your
perspective on monkeys. I'm not sure I want to be
loved by monkey, but anyway, that's okay, okay. Uh, there's
the matter of the chipper coppers tail. Sometimes that tail
is short, sometimes that tail doesn't exist at all, and

(14:56):
sometimes that tail is kind of long and spike. So
it's it's pretty clear from the evidence that is a
shape shifter to a degree I'm not going to disagree with. Actually,
I would say so that's that could be one of
the reasons that and maybe I should be talking about
this could be one of the reasons that we haven't
proven its existence yet. Uh, you know, and you might

(15:17):
want to hang onto that that's actually not in the
right up section for the theories, but we can hang
onto that for theories if you want. Okay, yeah, all right,
I promised to try. Let's see what else have we
got in commonality. Oh well, this is what Devon brought
up earlier, the eyes of the chip of Cabra. So
in the beginning they were large eyes, but now more

(15:41):
and more often they are large red almost kind of
red glowing eyes. Have you ever seen those photos of
like big cats at night when somebody sharing the spotlight
on them and their eyes suddenly light up in that
mirror red creepy way. Yeah, well, yes they do. But
what I don't know is if it's that kind of

(16:02):
light up or if it's the space alien giant you know,
like hands size, massive eyeball and a reflection it actually
does go out correct? Correct? Does this alien have LEDs
in its head? Or is it just the ambient light reflecting?
I don't know which one it is, uh now. I So,

(16:23):
by the way, this is one thing that I really
so when I was looking at all of the description
of the chupy it got very very confusing. One of
the things that I really really liked was if you
go out to the crypti wiki and you search the
Choopa Cabra there's a series of illustrations, all kind of
side by side, and while they're conceptual drawings, they really

(16:47):
kind of help put into perspective of the difference between
one to the next. So if you want to see that,
I'd recommend going to the Crypti wiki and checking that
out because that help out a lot. I've always actually
kind of had, among other ages, a Scupi in my head.
I've always kind of pictured him as like being dressed
in a trench cut with a wide rim fedora soho
al capone, al capone more, just like like a film

(17:10):
noir guy, kind of film noir kind of spike, kind
of like you know, James Jesus Angleton. Yeah, I'd never
really thought of Chupy in that way. Yeah, that's not
how I think of him either. Do you think about
in Devon so we're talking about descriptions, Yeah, I think more.
I think like a kind of version of a Scaly
slash Harry kind of thing. I don't know. I mean,

(17:31):
I like the original description of you know, scaly with
the spikes, but I also for some reason think of
him as like cuddly and furry. I don't have a
good time reconciling I kind of am in this this
shape shifter camp. My favorite, my favorite description or my
favorite visual of the chupy is the one that we
put on the Nightlight years ago. Yeah, hamster with the

(17:54):
the scary claws and the knife and the wings, like,
that's my favorite description. But of course that's because that's
the way I see it, and so I was able
to visualize it. Ye. Well, let's get there's still by
the way. Don't forget though, We've still got more description
stuff to talk about here. Okay, so you remember we
talked about the hands went from five finger to less
graining and more three fingers style. Well, depending on your

(18:18):
opinion of thumbs, yes, digits perfect. Well, those digits seem
to be to blame for the next the holes that
are found in the necks of choppy praying instead of teeth. Yes,
yeah to a degree. Yeah, like that seems to be
you know, have you ever okay, so, have you ever
gone to get a to go drink and the lid

(18:41):
has a little plastic bit but you've got to actually
put your finger in it to open it like a
coffee like it took coffee that kind of thing. Yeah,
and then you scream and shout about how much we'll
think about what Choppy has to do. He's got to
do the same thing to the neck of a critter
to get his meal. So he's always angry at them
because it's it burns him and they're biting at you know.

(19:03):
That's why they give you straws. You're not supposed to
use your finger, use a straw or like in this stage. Yeah,
I mean, so he used the coffees to her or something.
Go on, do you like a human listen? I've been
relying on you people to help me consume food like
a normal human being. Crawls that you use a tool.

(19:28):
Oh okay, So that aside. The real thing is that
the story appears to be that maybe Chupy is holding
his fingers and he is jabbing into the neck of
it and then and then immediately going to it and
sucking all of the fluid out of creature, which at
a substantial amount of which is very vampiric. Is there

(19:51):
blood dribbles to suggest that well there's blood? I mean,
you know, I mean, is there're enough that it would
be like poke? I guess I gotta put my mouth
on it now. Yeah, I don't think that he's trying
to be the little Dutch boy and stem the flow.
I think he might be trying to be the exact
opposite and increase the flow with pressure, that kind of pressure. Okay, Yeah,

(20:11):
he might even actually grabbing his pot in his paws
and give him a good squeeze. He's giving them a hug.
He's giving them a hug in their final moments to
make them comfy. Does anybody believe that? Okay, okay, let's
move forward. Then, so we've already established why there might
be this vampiric element because of the stabbing and then

(20:31):
the lack of blood. What I find really really funny
about the name choo Pacabra, of course, is that when
you translate that to Spanish, because that's where it came from,
it directly translates to goats sucker, as in the sucker
of blood of goats. But what I really love is
that goats are I mean, that infers that all the
chacabra is after his goats, but it's farm animals like

(20:55):
sheep and chicken or dogs or all these others are
also seemed to be prey. So it's a bit of
a mishnoms no no, it's it's not at all. Unusually
the animal came them for somebody to have a preferred
for food group. But at the same time, you know,
when goats aren't available, you gotta you gotta do something.

(21:18):
You got to eat. I mean, you know, Chap the
dog or whatever. Yeah. One thing to bear in mind
is that in Choopy's natural hunting ground usually wild goats,
but once it becomes urbanized or taken over by farms,
it's replaced by farm animals, and so he is left
to hunt whatever he can. Are you thinking that Choppy
is in an area where fainting goats are natural? Yeah,

(21:39):
that's why. No, I mean no, I'm sorry. I was
being kind of smart smart ass there, but no, you can.
I mean, you know, there were wild goats everywhere, and
then people came over and you know, started at agriculture
in that area, and suddenly you gotta hunt other things.
Come on, man, But luckily, luckily, I guess you never
started hunting human beings, thankfully. And there are just to

(22:01):
set the record straight, there are no accounts anywhere of
a chupa cabra actually attacking, not like these people who
were chupy jumped on them. That should be appears to
have jumped on them and that was it. No actual attacks,
inflicting damage or attempting to feed on a human. So
apparently the long pig is not on the menu for

(22:25):
the cabra. Well that's because the vampires get the credit
at that point. They've got like sort of like not
symbiotic relationship, not not symbiotic, but they just have sort
of they just they have their own territories. They don't
they don't intrude, you know, I mean, or they have
their own prey. Yeah, thanks, Yeah, all right, well let's

(22:46):
keep going up. Oh well, actually that's all I have
for background on the chupa cabra. So essentially, to kind
of to summit all of that, the little monster can
be taller, short, harrier, bald, have small or large eyes
that are black or red, have a flat face or
a long face with big snout. This is a very

(23:06):
concrete description that would hold up in a court of
law if the little Booker would ever just show up
in court. I was gonna say, didn't you say that
this was a concrete example, as we're not not in
centuries past sarca sarcasm it yeah, yeah, the chupys descriptions
are all over the place. And that's my favorite part

(23:27):
and my least favorite part about this story. It's a
hard thing, is that, well, which one is it? Is
it Chupy? Is it the Jersey Devil? Is it this
other thing? Like? Yeah, to a degree, now, um, I
will mention that in the Chupacabra story seems to have
really gained ground in Puerto Rico that then spread to

(23:52):
Central South and North America. That story has now even
gone so far that Chupacabra site. Things are happening in
eastern Europe, by the way. That's from Choopy and the
Aliens band tour, which I believe was the get your
Goat and why the hell is this so cold here? Tour?
Oh yeah, that I go Yeah, we all have that shirt.

(24:14):
So that's but that's that's all we have about the
story of the choop A Cabra. I find it funny
that he spread so far, but you know, he's an
industrious little critter that too. Maybe that's why he spread
so far, as he's actually prolific in the reproductive way.
Maybe you never know, there's that, or it might just

(24:36):
be that he stays on the move to to avoid
contact with human beings, kind of the gypsy lifestyle stuff.
Maybe that too. Well, let's uh, we've we've finished up
all of the basic descriptions, so let's talk about the
theories about the chiop Cabra. But before we do that,
let's take a quick break. Hey, Devon, do you like running?

(25:03):
You bet? I do, Steve, And you know what I
love running from the most held? You do? You running
away from the chuppy? Uh? So do you have a
favorite kind of running, Geared Evan? Why Bomba's socks. Of course,
they're so comfortable with that crazy honeycomb heart support system.
I know that my feet are getting the support they
need and they make you look less like a goat,

(25:25):
So the chuppy won't come after you, am I right? Uh? Yeah, sure, Joe.
Anyway back to this end they were recording, So tell me, Devon,
is there anything else that you like about Bomba's. Oh, Steve,
there are so many things I like about Bomba's. To
start off with, there's the super soft cop material, which
is just amazing because it keeps your feet warm in

(25:47):
the winter and cool in the summer, and man is
it hot here right now. The other really fantastic thing
is that they give so much to those in need.
Bamba do. It's one pair of socks for repair they sell,
which is like over seven million a year. That's pretty
amazing to me, it sure is. And the thing you

(26:08):
need to understand is that that little devil dog Chupacaba
sure isn't doing anything like that for anyone. That is
totally true, Joe. All that little monster does is sit
around and smoke cigars all day before assaulting livestock. I
have to say, my favorite thing about Bombas is the
fact that they fit so well on me. There is
just something great about wearing socks that stay in place

(26:31):
while I don't really feel like I feel them there,
and I never get those gnarly lines on my feet
that other socks leave, which is why I really like
them and I really wear them so much. So, dear listener,
if you'd like some Bombas of your own, then have
we got a great offer to share with you. You
can now get off your first order of Bomba's by

(26:52):
going to Bomba's dot com slash sideways and using the
promo code sideways. That's Bomba's b O M b a
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to get off your first order. That's right, because Bomba's
have been helping people out run chupy since sometime after

(27:13):
the law pass instident. Ay ready, ju ju jube chuo
juo chube juba caa chupacabra. Okay, and we're back. Let's

(27:34):
talk about theories. WHOA. So, theory number one is that
the chuba cobra is a dinosaurs one. Well, yeah, yeah,
a long ignored, unobserved dinosaur because this creature is short,
it's got leathery skin like a lizard, and it's got
spikes on its head and those are running down its back,

(27:57):
which is kind of sounds like a stegosaurus to me. Yeah.
But but if you think about it, though, the problem
with this theory is that if we're going to look
at the island of Puerto Rico, there are no large
lizards that are native to that island. There's some iguanas
and there's some geckos, but none of them are near
big enough to be what is described as the chio picabra.

(28:19):
Nor do they walk on their hind legs. Yeah, yeah,
lizards sho't typically walk that way. So that's a problem
and us so about the thing about it is is
that you know, it could have could have gotten there
somehow at a ship, say, for example. And we're going
to talk about that because that is that infers some
kind of longevity or past in other places, which I

(28:44):
would think would be reported on prior to this. But
we'll talk about in a later theory. But I will
say that the fact that it is unobserved because there
are there are creatures that are old, like some fish
or crocodiles or certain creatures like that that have have

(29:04):
found no reason to change or evolve over the millennia
that are's basically the same now as they were when
the t rex was running around. Well, that's the idea
of this theory, is that the jupicabra is the same
thing it was of a hundred thousand years ago, especially
if it was like you know, like shape shifter. If

(29:27):
that's what it is, that's the most ultimate coolest adaptation ever.
So why would it change? Yeah? So okay, well, so
here's the thing is that we're going to go into
the shape shifter in just a second because I want
you to flesh that out. But for me, the fact
that if it had been originally on the island of
Puerto Rico for that entire time. It's amazing to me

(29:49):
if it's just a plane dinosaur, not the shape shifting kind,
but a plane dinosaur, that it would have gone for
all of the time that people are on that island
on observed and undescribed in any lord that that to
me is that's awkward or weird or strange. It doesn't
make sense. Well, it could have been a fluke that

(30:10):
brought it there. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean,
I think what Joe was saying earlier isn't is worth
considering that it wasn't always on Puerto Rico. It could
have come from Central or South America, where there are
as we have talked about recently, fast swaths of this
kind of those areas that I just are totally unexplored.

(30:31):
That something like a dinosaur could have existed for thousands
of years, millions of years totally undiscovered, and then somehow,
you know, managed to get itself wrangled up in like
a timber shipment or something that ended up you know,
in Puerto Rico. I mean, and then suddenly, because Puerto
Rico is so much smaller, suddenly and so much more populous. Yeah,

(30:53):
where it came from. I mean, I just think it's
worth No, no, I'm not going to completely discredit it.
I disagree with it, but I'm not gonna just credit Joe.
Tell him flesh out a little more. Though. Your shape
shifter idea, Well, it's not that fleshy really, It's just
it's more leathery. Yeah, it depends on the day. You know.
I ate a bunch of carbs today, so I'm kind

(31:15):
of a fleshy shape shifter. But no, I mean, it's
just it's just this obvious. Uh. And I think, you know,
indisputable that since the accounts have very so much in
describing the troop of Cabra, that you know, he must
be a shape shifter, you know. I think it's like
in disputing, one day he looks like an ant eater,
the next like a monkey, and one day he looks

(31:35):
like Bob from the local tribe. Yeah. Yeah, listen, everybody
said Bob was a weird looking dude, So I get it.
He had he had a weird craving, he had a
weird affection for the local goasts. That was that was
really what set him apart. But that could be also
it makes him. So elusive is because being a shape
shifter like he is, and it's like if somebody spots him,

(31:58):
he can dart away and then just morph into a
dog or something or a sheep and nobody yeah, or
part of the herd. Yeah, suddenly yeah, suddenly, boom, he's gone.
And they're like, oh, weird, we there's a there's a
sheep missing from the herd, but we have the right number. Yeah, yeah, No,
I cannot think if there's I've read books about shape

(32:20):
shifters before and how they would integrate into society, So
that's that's not unheard of, and it makes sense. I mean,
I mean, actually, when you come right down to it,
Choppy could be sitting in this room right now. Yeah,
so let me take off my mask christ for walking. No,
that's not how it actually works. Off my mask, I'm

(32:42):
Tom Cruise. Yeah, you don't jump on the couch enough
to be Tom Cruise. Okay, let's move to our next theory.
The next theory is that the chupa cober is actually
some kind of vampiric animal, because remember, you know, the
chupy is supposedly norious for sucking the blood out of

(33:02):
its victims and that gives the impression that it is Again,
it is giving the impression that it only is able
to sustain itself on the blood meal of other creatures,
and that would explain why people originally called it the vampire,
the vampire, the vampire of Mocha. Well, there are animals

(33:25):
on this planet that do partially or entirely survive on
blood meals. So there's leeches, vampire bats, some birds, some bugs,
even some plants out there that do it. Yeah, but
there's no evidence. This is the the issue with it
is that there's not no evidence of anything as large
as a chupacabra, independent of which size version of the

(33:48):
chubacabra you want to adhere to out there that is
surviving on that much blood as it's only food source.
But but bear with me here because this the way
I said, that implies that the only food source it
has is blood, which is wrong to presume we don't

(34:11):
know that. Well, yeah, because there are there are a
bunch of animals out there that consume blood, but that's
not the only thing they eat. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
I was just gonna say, it doesn't really stand to
reason that an animal that large would be able to
sustain itself just on blood. Blood is very nutritious. Blood
can be very nutritious, but probably not for an animal

(34:34):
of that size. They have to feed on a lot
of animals to get the right amount of blood, and
it wouldn't be a very balanced diet to only drink blood.
I mean, there are some animals that do. This is
why you put cellery in your bloody Mary, Yeah, but
it might be that that's kind of this hunting strategy
is to punks of the animals like herotid arteryy suck

(34:55):
out enough blood to it loses consciousness and thattic and
like you know, feed and you know consumed the meat part.
But then why are they finding all the animals that
have the hallmarks of being because because He's interrupted before, Well,
I was gonna say. The issue is that the blood
sucking is always described as the way that the animal died.

(35:17):
There is no post consumption of the creature. So the
goat has its neck punctured and all the blood is gone,
but the goat is not torn apart and consumed. It
is still sitting there whole. But that's just the ghosts
they find. Correct, Okay, I will get that. But and
but Here's the thing is that if we're going to

(35:37):
say it's a vampiric animal, there are Okay, let's talk
about the vampire finch, which is a finch on the
Galapagos Islands. It eats seas and bugs and grubs just
like finches do. The only difference is that in the
dry season or the season where there's not a whole
lot of its normal food around, what this particular finch

(35:59):
does is it goes up and it plucks the tail
feathers out of bigger birds and creates a wound that bleeds,
and then it feeds on that blood. And apparently you
will see a line of finches behind a big bird
and once they've consumed enough, they'll fly away and the
next one will come up open the wound a little
bit to keep it bleeding and keep consuming. Yeah, but listen,

(36:24):
there are animals who do this. It is a I
mean leeches, and there's are all kinds of creatures that
it's a creepy, creepy thing to us as people, but
nature finds a way, so there are animals that do it.
It's just the scale, well scale, but there is a
scale thing. But also but still, I mean, I I

(36:47):
still think as a hunting strategy to suck the blood
to it loses consciousness and then you go up in
your chow down after that. It could be too that
lots of lots of chippy victims have been found, but
they were assumed to be psychioty attacks or other while attacks. Yeah,
that's true. I guess this is why Joe's not allowed.
That's true. No, I mean the only thing is I

(37:08):
think in like fantasy land theory, the idea of sucking
blood and tell your victim is you have to have
you have to have some kind of like mesmerized thing
to write where the animals not going to fight back
because like hanging onto an animal. Yeah, you have to
be really strong and be able to suck blood like
really really fast, because in reality, if you even if

(37:29):
you puncture like a major artery and animal's gonna immediately
just fight back really really hard, it would be faster
almost to just like fold the entire neck at or
yeah something like. Okay, So I'm going to disagree with
that because I've for some reason, I've been watching a
lot of videos of lions on the planes attacking large Uh,

(37:51):
what's the what do you call animals with the gazels
like gazelles, the the the split hoof underlands underlands, and
they grab them, they they're choking them more than anything,
Like they are opening the veins in their neck by
biting them, but more often than not, what they're doing
is they're actually choking. But that's the exact same thing

(38:15):
I'm saying, right, that's more efficient, Okay, but it is
possible than in the process of opening these holes that
are bleeding the animal out, they're also cutting off the windpipe.
I'm not in bed with this theory, don't get me wrong,
but I'm saying that, like, just because this is happening
doesn't mean something else is happening. But I will tell

(38:37):
you that there's another larger problem with this whole vampiric angle,
which is that these animals are that are that are
found or supposedly have been drained of all their blood.
But we don't know that for sure because one of
the things that we've talked about on the show before
is liver mortis, which is that process where you know
your blood is being pushed around the body mortis no

(39:00):
livermore livermore is the blood is being pushed around and
then once the heart stops, the blood is a liquid,
so it does what all liquids do. It settles to
the lowest point, the path of least resistance, at which
point it pools and coagulates. So if if a rancher
comes out and says, oh my god, my prize goat,

(39:21):
Jenny has been killed, well what's happened? And you try
to cut Jenny open to see what's going on, and
you kind of expect this spray of blood to happen,
but that doesn't happen. You go, she's got no blood
in her. Oh my god, she's been sucked dry. When
really what's happened is Jenny's blood is all sank to

(39:42):
whatever the lowest portion of her was and sort of
semi solidified. Well you know, but still you know, intentions
might be to completely exsanguinate the animal, but again it
gets interrupted and has to scamper off into the darkness
before I can suck all the blood out of it.
But whatever blood is in Jenny is going to settle

(40:03):
to Jenny's lowest bits. I just think, you know, Chippy
is trying to do Rancher as a favor, like they
have to eventually excigminate the body water anyway, So he's
just like helping them out, Yeah, just trying to make
the meat usable. Yeah maybe maybe. No, I don't like
this theory at all. Let's no. Yeah, really doing that

(40:23):
to Jenny and the other twenty four Jennifers is just
not nice. So let's keep moving on. So we have
another theory, which is that the chupa cabra is an alien. Yeah,
because what good story wouldn't involve an alien for goodness sake?
Zero exactly. That's not beyond the realm of possibility now,

(40:44):
so you preconsistently see the choopy being just chupacabra. By
the way, just so people don't get upset, we have
come to call the chupacabra Choopy because he's kind of
a friendly character to us. But and I keep saying
would be rather than chupa cabra. It's just a natural
automatic reaction because we've been talking about the chupa cobra

(41:05):
for like five years now. It's really just like calling
a friend, Jenny In said of Jennifer. Yeah, yeah, so
the twenty seven chupies that we're talking about here are awesome.
Come on, you know, the song up. Yeah, Yeah, it's
it's by the December Yeah catalog, yep, exactly. So when

(41:26):
you look up drawings and descriptions of this critter, you're
gonna find that it's not hard to see why some
people may say that the chupa cobra actually is an alien.
Some of the drawings it does look pretty. And the
alien theory kind of explains some things because listen, in
the seventies and eighties, there was some spot descriptions of

(41:47):
things that sounded like the chupa cabra, but it wasn't
until the mid nineties that it really started taking off. Well,
if the chupa cabra is an alien, that explains why
it suddenly showed up in the Middle a little the
Caribbean in the nineties, because it could be that, instead
of being a natural occurring earthlier, Um, what's the word

(42:09):
I'm looking for, terrestrial creature. It's an extraterrestrial in that
this creature suddenly shows up and starts playing havoc here
in our ecosystems and we're not expecting it. I mean,
it might also explain the vampiric nature, right, I mean,
you know it's possible that creatures from other worlds have

(42:31):
developed a different physiology, and yeah, they found a blood
just generally more nutritious. It's like crack. Yeah, and it
literally could be alien crack. So this could be I
can see a couple of possibilities here. One is that
like say some aliens land here like eons ago, could
be centuries, thousands of years ago, and for whatever reason,

(42:53):
their their ship broke down and they and they were
stuck here and they wind up basically because I mean imagine, say,
for example, if the three of us wind up stuck
in a jungle somewhere, are we going to build a
new civilization or are we going to wind up living
a savagery new civilization? Obviously, yeah, of course. But but
these aliens are dumber than we are. There's space traveling dummies.

(43:15):
So they wind up, you know, basically foraging and getting
they're the rednecks in space traveler. Yeah, but they returned. Well,
I mean a lot of a lot of us really
don't have the wherewithal too. Most of us could build
a car, Yeah, none of us good and so and
so basically they reserved. They reverted essentially to savagery. Okay,
after centuries that there's still some descendants to the original

(43:37):
Aliens and out there, maybe even more, but there's still
not huge numbers or anything like that, and they're still
out and about. I'll take you a step further. If
an Aliens dog, Pete they had on their spaceship they
landed and it ran off, ran off, they were like, hush,
we got to get out of here. The human puppy

(44:00):
they're doing well, this sucks. Why do we call you
fluffy when you have no I don't know, but it's
the language difference. And then it's you know, that explains
why maybe they might be smart enough for space travel
but not smart enough to start there. But I will
I will actually trade change. That is that they may
they may not be smart enough for space travel, but

(44:23):
they may be some kind of interstellar hitchhiker, but the
interstellar hitchhiker kind that is not smart enough to bring
our own towels. Yeah. That's the other thing I was thinking,
is that they're just basically like rats on ships, you know,
here in the in this this world, not this country,
just world enormous, but but cloaked alien ship basically lands

(44:44):
in a few places on the planet and some of
these things just pop off out of the hold or
wherever they're hiding out in there. Maybe they flush them
out because they're like, oh god, we have a bed
bug infestation. The whatever their equivalent of bed bugs is,
get rid of it alright, Like the movie Critters, remember
Critters or a horrible but fun movies. I don't think

(45:05):
I saw that one. Well, that was from the late
eighties where they were a little round, hairy things and
they would roll. You need to see that, you'll hate it, okay,
but I need to see more movies like that. But
another possibility, of course, is that the aliens pop by
and just left these critters off as like kind of
hunting animals. Essentially, they just wanted to leave them here

(45:27):
and let them breathe, and they come back and just
hunt them for sport later on, and maybe who knows,
maybe they do come back occasionally and hunt up for sports. See.
The problem though, the whole problem, the joy and the
terror that is this theory is that your belief in aliens.
If you believe in aliens, this totally makes sense. If

(45:50):
you don't believe in aliens, this theory is complete and utter.
Pooh absolutely conceded to not believe in aliens. But we
can go down that route a whole different. Yeah. We
we've gone down that more than once, and I don't
think we need to go down it again. I'm sure
they're around it. The big question is is are they
visiting Earth or have they? You know, that's that's the

(46:10):
big question. Yeah. I think hitchhiker is a good one. Yeah, okay,
well let's let's by the way. Yeah, I know, that's
why I said they're not good enough to bring their
own damn powel. All right, let's go to the next theory,
which is that it is a not as I have written, genetical,
but an actual genetic mutation created by question mark exactly

(46:33):
how it's written out, but probably they've created in the
in the labs that on Plum Island, Oh yeah, yea,
or NASA. So as uh, as you're reading about Chubby
and the Chubster, you're gonna, you know, you're not going
to be surprised to learn that there are conspiracy theories
surrounding the Chub of Cabra. What I was surprised about
was where those conspiracy theories were at, because, as we

(46:57):
talked about before, Puerto Rico is a it's oh god,
what did we call it earlier? It's a it's an island,
an unincorporated it's an unincorporated state of the United States,
and that is it's a territory. So theoretically that's going
to change soon. But apparently the residence of Puerto Rico

(47:22):
they don't really like the U. S. Government in ways
because they feel like they're not treated right, and they
feel like the U. S. Government is sometimes hiding things
from them, which I don't disagree with because I think
the US government is hiding things for me all the time,
so I get that. What happens here, though, is that
this theory says that this this creature is being hidden

(47:45):
from view and how that's happening or why that happening.
That theory kind of morph or splits into two veins.
The first vein is that the chupy, the chipicabra is
created by the US government lab. That lab happened to
be on Puerto Rico or the island Puerto Rico, and

(48:08):
that lab was working on genetic manipulation to create new critters,
so sort of like Dolly the sheep, you know, they
figured out how to clone a critter. So it's in
that same vein research like spliced together various DNA from
various critters goat and a lizard, and you know, I

(48:30):
don't know an other mean thing. I really want to
merge this theory with one of the previous theories to
create the what I will now call the Jurassic Park theory.
That it could be a dinosaur totally resuscitated by the
US government that escaped, so it's a raptor, and it
could just be some kind of dinosaur that we don't

(48:50):
necessarily know about. If it's gonna be Jurassic Park, it's
going to be a raptor. Alright, Fine, it's some sort
of weird wrapper that we don't know about. They created
lots of difference little dinoas for that for that park.
But it makes me put the best. But it's scariest.
But you know, it may well be that it's it's
bigger than this. It wasn't just something that escaped. Actually,
there's a U. S. Government plant who just turned the

(49:11):
entire island of Puerto Rico into Jurassic Park, which makes
sense actually because the population is leaving there in droves.
So it's like, you know, pretty soon it's gonna be empty.
Might according to the news coverage, they're all leaving it,
yet everybody still seems to be living there. Yes, but
that's that's the theory, is that the US government created

(49:33):
this thing. Now it maybe it got out on its own,
or maybe they intentionally let it loose on the island
to turn it into a giant game park for drawing
in all the Chinese tourists to to to make money on.
We don't know. This theory, though, also splits because it's
what we talked about a little bit earlier, is that

(49:54):
instead the aliens had created this critter, and the aliens
came here, they dumped the chupa cabra onto the island
of Puerto Rico, and from there, of course, the aliens
in the US government, they're in bed together, sleeping on
their casper mattress, and they said, we've got to cover

(50:19):
this up with this giant duvey cover of misinformation. And
so they pulled up their big old blankie over the
chupa cabra and just said, no, that didn't happen. I don't.
You don't know what you're happening. I didn't. That could
actually explain some of the incoherences of the descriptions of
the Chupe of Cabra is that you have your agents
actually actually report sightings of the Chupa cabra, but every

(50:42):
one of them looks a little different or even a
lot different, and that would that would totally destroy the
credibility of the original sightings, the actual real sightings true. Now, Joe,
I know you're you're a huge fan of always digging
into old historical information on these things. And I know
you came up with you found you came up with this,

(51:05):
So you found this, got this, dude. But the next
theory that you shoehorned into my script, well, and I
got this out of a book that in some reacharch
I was doing on the the assassination of Abraham Lincoln
and all the years because that happened. Yeah, and well
it did happen eventually. Apparently there were the assassination attempts.

(51:26):
He was controversial, but this was a rather controversial time
in our history. Um passions were running high, very very
high over the slavery thing and secession all that. But uh, well, yeah, yeah,
he he did not he did. What I was trying
to say is he didn't come into power with this
huge wave of approval. There was all kinds of factions

(51:48):
that were not happy about him, as his tends to
be kind of typical of first term presidents. When there's
a sea change, it's uh, you know, even when things
are fairly fairly okay, I mean, think things kind of
going nuts. People's guy doesn't there or a girl does
not win that the White House like they thought he
or she should, and everybody goes berserk. But let's get

(52:10):
back to our theory here. So in the eighteen fifties,
before obviously Lincoln became president, the Pakerton Detective Agency was
actually hired by Abraham Lincoln after they repeatedly thwarted an
assassination attempt against him, and he did not Yeah, I
did not know, well I had well, yeah, this is
part of the theory. I'm not so sure that I've

(52:31):
heard about this one before either, because you know, there
had been a previous one. I don't know, Well, it
just hasn't been publicized. Let's just say, obviously, they sort
of dropped the ball in the second attempt, you know, yeah, yeah,
well they did. Well. You know you gotta remember about
the second attempt, though, is that the Civil War was
basically over at that time, so everybody, Yeah, everybody was.

(52:54):
It was kind of probably kind of thinking, Okay, everybody's
just gonna go back to their corner and we're all
just going to kind of get over everything again. Maybe
that was it. I don't know, but yeah, the guard
was down. There was there was a member of the
Pinkerton's who was actually well known for his superior I
don't know his his instincts, I guess, and uh, he
was won by the code named cheap Block Holmes. Really yeah,

(53:15):
he was a key member of the agency. Yeah, cheap
Block Holmes. And he was kind of funny looking, but
he still had a massive success, right, so he was
accepted and promoted at in a trench coat a lot. Yeah, yeah,
I think that. I think that the hat may have
been a way to draw attention away from his his appearance.

(53:37):
Yeah yeah, but you know, eventually he came kind of
became disillusion with the organization and left. And rumor has
it he went south when he left, like towards the
Texas border maybe, uh yeah. And but you know, other
than that, surprisingly for a guy who spent so many
so much time with the agency, there's not that much
known about him. Uh. And then totally makes sense. Yeah,

(53:59):
I mean he's spy, right, Yeah, well that's a good point.
He wants to be kind of an onymous. Yeah, although
you know, if he's out there still, and I assume
he is, somebody named Arthur Conan Doyle actually actually did
some research into a time with the Pinkerton's and and
basically ripped it all off and made it into the
Sherlock Home Stories and made a pile of money on it.

(54:20):
And so there was a message left left behind, one
last message, coded message left for Allen Pinkerton, who was
the guy who started the Pinkerton Agency. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Code breakers have not yet able to figure figured this
letter out. But so it said it clear and clear,
it said, what figured this one out? You're a racist
jerk face that. Yeah, but they haven't been able to

(54:42):
figure out what the code was. Yeah, maybe there is
no code. Maybe that was actually the Well it could
have been. It could and it could have been. Like
I said, some quoted messages are probably not really code
at all, just meant to just drive people nuts. Yeah.
I think at least one or two of the Zodiac
messages are actually that way. I actually I totally agree. Yeah,
I think I do if this is a coded message,

(55:04):
I love the uncoded version because come on, or the
coded version. So Joe, I'm sorry, what does this have
to do with chop Cabra. Well, Troup Block Holmes is
believed by some people if peop Block Holmes might have
actually been a chip of cabra in disguise. Okay, yeah,
I mean I homes of course, So whether it's the

(55:27):
super cobra, and we don't know if the chuper cobra
that we that we see today is the same one
from a hundred two hundred years ago. Some creatures actually
live a long long time. This is also a time
frame when people were playing with a lot of chemicals,
and it could be the chop Block Homes like figured
out some steam punky way to make a whole bunch
of chemicals to extend his life. But of course it

(55:47):
gave him a horrific skin condition and an abnormally large
love of goats. So literally, what you're saying is he
just figured out how to turn himself into a Victorian vampire.
No victory in goat fire. That doesn't work, does it. No,
it's still a vampire like a goat lover. Victorian goat lover. Okay,

(56:11):
let's just I'm going here like he's he's got a
thing for goats, but he lives forever. Yeah, but nobody's nobody.
I don't think our listeners are buying this, although I
kind of like your idea of Devon, that that he
maybe was experimenting with certain chemicals and want from being
basically a human being to this creature you know who,

(56:34):
you know, kind of Jucklin Heights thing. Yeah, exactly, So
I don't know. Okay, let's let's move on to the
next theory, which is this is actually a really simple theory,
which is that the chipicabra is real as described. In
other words, it is a real creature. It has never
actually been observed. It's truly a cryptid and nobody has

(56:56):
actually seen it. But there's nothing to say that it's
not right. And there are creatures out there that have
not that have been observed but haven't been scientifically captured
and categorized. And this happens from time to time, and
too you know the world. Yeah, what's that New species
do get discovered? They do, but it's still usually they're

(57:18):
in obscure locations, and they're they're in very remote corners
of the world to just be bouncing around in the
middle of South America and Puerto Rico. See a bit
far fetch, you think, so, I mean, like, you know,
it's Devin theorized earlier. You know, you could have somehow
got snagged up and wound up in some cargo that

(57:41):
got shipped to Puerto Rico as far as South America
in places like that, I mean, human settlements expanded and
expand into his territory. So you know it's entirely plausible. Well,
let's move to the we'll dump up for a second
because it's gonna then play into the next three, which
is that it's a myth. Because of course, my problem
with that is that there's the unobserved thing. But if

(58:05):
this animal were to have, possibly in some form, once
existed and then people are telling stories about it, because
people tell stories all the time to control behavior, whether
it's children or ethical reasons or whatever like, or to
stay out of the to stay out of areas for

(58:29):
religious reasons, like there's all kinds of things like that.
Well there's that, but also people like a good creepy story.
But people popular people's imaginations are very very powerful things,
and you know, I mean, we all know this that
if you have details missing in something that you see,

(58:49):
your brain will fill in the missing piece, and normally
it becomes the scary things. That's why kids that see
at night they're with their toys and their hanging clothes,
that becomes Sully from you know, from what was the monsters? Yeah,

(59:09):
is a dress and a lego. My problem with that theory, though,
is that the chuper carbon poses no threat to humans. Right,
So most of those those myths surround either some sort
of creation story to explain perhaps like thunder something like that,
or something to keep the kids, like to scare the

(59:30):
kids witless so that they stay in the camp at night. Right,
It's very rare to be like, oh, the goats don't
have these puncture wounds and like there's nothing sucking their blood.
But let's just make something up. It could be a
scary thing to to actually ram home to the kids
the idea that they have to get the goats home
and in the corrality. That's true. But yeah, but you know,

(59:54):
it's just usually those kind of myth creations center around,
like you said, people and scare people either into behaving
or believing something, and then it has some some repercussion
for a human if they don't do that thing right. Well,
so let me share a story of suggestion and interpretation. Okay,

(01:00:14):
we're going to go back to which is when we
said the story kind of went viral, and we're going
to go back to Magdalene Tolentino. Yeah, in Puerto Rico,
she remember the originator of the chupy that we know
and love. Well, it turns out that Madeleine weeks before

(01:00:35):
had gone to the theater and seen the movie Species.
And by the way, yeah, she did not just think
that this was a movie. She thought this was something
that was happening on the island of Puerto Rico. And
if you go when you watch the movie Species, which
is about the main character, Ish is this girl who

(01:00:59):
becomes an a land and she gets all these weird
things on her and if you look at it, she
does get really big by the end. But if you
look at her, she looks a lot like any creature
created by hr Geiger, because lo and behold he wrote
both stories the Aliens from the Alien series. And by

(01:01:19):
the way, if you don't know what I'm talking about,
stop pause us right now. Google hr Geiger aliens. You
will see the creatures and they have large teeth, large
spines across their backs. They're very they have a kind
of an oily, glistening sheen style to them, Like he

(01:01:39):
has a very very specific style to the creature. He's said,
but she wouldn't watch that movie not too long before
she saw this. Yeah, but are you saying that, hr Geiger?
Is that what you're saying? So No, But what you
are saying is that this is this theory isn't so
much like, oh, it's a myth. The theory is this

(01:02:01):
woman got confused, confused. Hold everybody but miss but miss
are the same thing is that people see something in
its suggestion and they take it and they spin it
and they say they see something else, and then they
tell everybody else, And that's what appears. According to Benjamin Radford, who,

(01:02:24):
by the way, is a guy who investigated the origins
of the chupacabra. He said, wait, Madeline went watched Species
and then she reported a creature that looked like Still.
I think Still is her name from Species, and lo
and behold this thing took off. I just I'm resistant

(01:02:45):
to this because I have a better theory. Okay, cool.
You know what, fine, tell me you better theory. My
matter theory involves the past. Actually it also it solves
the past incident. Basically, it's my understanding that Choopy was
actually an agent for the KGB, whether it be you know,

(01:03:08):
a genetic mutation agent or like an actual agent in
some way forced to coerce or coerced to work with
the KGB. And I do, I mean, I kind of
do think that that there was some sort of instead
of the U. S. Government created this creature, maybe the
KGB created this creature, or it could have been Tom

(01:03:29):
Cruise in a rubber mask. Could have been Tom Cruise
in a ruber mask. I think he's a little before
his time, but for all, I don't know if somethingtologists
might live forever. Just to go on the record, Tom
Cruise is rubber mask, he is, he might he already
is rubber mask is true. No, But I think that
Choopy was was created, but he was somehow a KGB agent,
and he was actually responsible for the desk at the

(01:03:50):
Outlaw pass you like we said we were talking about,
you know, maybe he drains the blood to actually eat people.
And and this could be a really good example of
what happened. I mean, you know, in the frozen tundra,
that's what you're saying. It's five years ago, a joke
by Jove turns out to be true. Yeah, well it
wasn't a joke, ye know. He had just started doing

(01:04:10):
the research and I finished this research up for him.
And yeah, but he did not actually drink the blood
from these guys at the pass, did he. Well, some
of the bodies were like torn up, right, and so
I think was destroyed. Yeah, I mean, you know it's possible.
I mean, they froze. I don't know really, but he
realized on this incident something had gone wrong, like like

(01:04:33):
we were just saying, you know, he tore the bodies up.
Maybe he wasn't able to drink the blood. I don't
know really what happened there. That's the remaining mystery of
the law past. But because of this incident, he realized
he didn't he couldn't work for the KGB anymore. He like,
he just couldn't. So he defected because of that cigar.
I mean, maybe it was the cigar, but even even

(01:04:55):
back then, the KGB new KGB knew the secondhand smoke
was a bad thing, and they you have been more
really down on that whole thing. Well, I think he
just was personally like horrified with the things that he
was doing for the KGB. And so he'd defected to
the U S government and they were like, listen, we
can't have you in the contiguous United States. So Puerto

(01:05:15):
Rico here, listen, Puerto Ricos not Yeah, they're not technically America.
It's safe. People don't guess that you're there. There's lots
of weird little farm land down there. It's great. So
they sent him down there, gave him a farm for
himself to kind of roam on. But since he hadn't
I mean, you know, he's not clearly not human. So
since he didn't have an actual deed to the property

(01:05:37):
in the US government was in this kind of situation
where they had to deny owning the property. The property
got developed, and again the Indian giver thing that we
talk it's like in the Frank Finkel episode. They take
it away and give it back. Yeah, they do that.
I could just say it if you showed they show
up to take his lands that you know, we're not.
We decided to get this as somebody else and develop it. Well,

(01:05:59):
even it like, you made this promise and now you're
taking it back, and the guys when the government says, well, yeah,
that's what we do. Yeah, I mean either that or
you know, it was just people who were local. They
were like, well, that ranch isn't being used, so we
might as well graize our goats on it. And then suddenly,
you know, he was feeding on goats and sheep and
chicken and whatever because people were encroaching on his his

(01:06:19):
normal hunting grounds with the U. S. Government had given
him to By the way, yeah, have you ever eaten goat? Yeah,
it's actually pretty good. It's not bad. I don't I
don't blame Choopy for liking goat because I mean blood,
oh well, well with with jerk sauce or some like spices. Yeah,
in a in a barrel barbecue. That is the bomb

(01:06:42):
right there. But no, I mean that's that's my I
you know, based on Joe's and my research, I think
this is just to retire KGB defector retired to Puerto Rico. Okay, well,
let's uh, let's go ahead and move into the next three.
Kind of overwhelmed with series, right, Well, there's a lot
of theories in this because this is a huge stone.
I mean, don't dismiss this story like the mainstream media does, Joe.

(01:07:05):
Don't be a mainstream disser of the troops. Come on
the mainstream. Yeah, the mainstream. They're basically not interested in
the true. Do not be a tuope denier. No, I'm
not so Listen, let's here. Here's the next theory is
that and we have a couple left, We're going all
the way through with this. And by the way, everybody's
looking at their phones or iPods or whatever, going, oh

(01:07:27):
my god, there's so much episode left. We have a
lot to go through a little bit. We have whole
bunch of stuff, important stuff coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the next theory is that this is just an
animal with Maine. Yeah yeah, I've heard these stories, this
stuff on Facebook and stuff. You see it everywhere. So
for for the last twenty plus years, animal corpses have

(01:07:48):
been brought to officials. And I use that term loosely
to invest in identify the whole hand air quotes. Well, yeah,
this is yeah, that's that's the weird. The whole air quote.
The two finger one is official. The whole hand one
is kind of awkward, but it is that these people
have brought these corpses forward saying this is a tubacabra

(01:08:11):
chorpse and you should check it out. And of course
official sources don't ever really want to do it. But
when they are actually investigated, what appears to be the
case is that they are not previously unidentified creatures, but
instead they're the corpses of wild dogs or coyotes or

(01:08:33):
some kind of canine. They don't have hair, usually, well
they don't have hair because they tend to appear to
typically be suffering from mange, have been submersion water or
have been submerging water. Okay, yeah, so listen. If you
don't know what manges, will give you a very very
quick primer here. Mange is caused by a mite, specifically

(01:08:57):
sarcoptic mange. That's the name of this particular mine. And
what it does is it crawls under the skin and
it like it literally burrows a tunnel in the skin,
which is horrible to think of. Yeah, but then it
lays eggs and that can be very painful and it
can cause quite a lot of itching. It's not a

(01:09:18):
good thing. And these these mites can and they do
infect people and the what you'll hear in humans, this
called is scabies. Now, Lucky for us humans, we've been
dealing with this particular brand of mites for years, like centuries,

(01:09:39):
like millennia, so on an evolutionary scale, we've figured out
how to handle it and kind of um corralled on
the body. Now, it's not considered desirable, it's not, but
it is not something that is going to take you
doubt it is. It's an inconvenient and by the way,

(01:10:01):
it is highly contagious and it is highly uncomfortable, and
if you think you have scabies, you should see a
doctor because it is very easily treated in humans today.
But the point is it will not kill us at least.
It takes a really massive, massive, massive, massive infection to

(01:10:22):
really take down a human. Turns out in canines, though
that's not the case because canines have not been dealing
with this particular might nearly as long as we have.
So let's just you know, they get it from humans.
So anyway, so the dog gets this and doesn't know
what to do with it. It freaks out, The hair

(01:10:44):
falls out, the skin gets thick and turns grayish blackish,
and it becomes very, very itchy. And the problem with
that is that because it becomes itchy, they scratch at it,
they spread the infection because it's high contagious, just like
in people. In animals or dogs, it's contagious, so spreading

(01:11:05):
it makes it contagious. So they're spreading it around themselves.
They're also opening themselves up to secondary infections. Basically just
makes all their hair fall out, and it makes it
worse because now they're they're getting other infections, are getting
sicker and sicker, weaker and weaker. They look gaunter and gaunter.
They look horrid. If you want to make yourself cry,

(01:11:29):
look up pictures of dogs with maine, because it is
not a nice thing. It is a sad thing to see.
And what what happens though, is that these poor critters
now they're weak. They you know, they can't actually hunt
like that. Let's take a dog or kayak. They're kind
of a semi apex predator and they hunt down rabbits

(01:11:50):
and squirrels and whatever whatever. They chase things down, but
they're not fast, but they're they're pretty good at what
they do. But now they've got maine, so they, yeah,
they can't do well. So they can't catch their normal praise,
and now they become hungry and desperate. So where's the
only food source around? Well, it's on a farm convenient store. Well, no,

(01:12:14):
not the convenience. They don't normally shop at seven eleven
because nobody will give him a debit card. But the
problem is, of course, is that they don't want to
go to a human settlement because we as humans were
super aggressive and we will take them out, yea, And
they know this, but suddenly they have no choice, like

(01:12:35):
that tied up goat is the only thing they can get.
But of course they're also easily scared away. So now
let's say they attack the tied up goat and then
the guy who owns the goal comes out and yells
and they run away. Well then he shows up and
all he finds is his bleeding goat on the ground

(01:12:57):
with no blood in it. He doesn't know what the
hell is going on. Thus he thinks a vampire attacked
his goat. So it could be Maine because it does terrible,
terrible things to these particular critters. Makes them look pretty ugly,
that's for sure, although I'd like to point out too
that it would be probably child's play. For the US

(01:13:18):
government to pluck the hair out of some poor animals
from poor canine and set them loose out there, you know,
just just to throw us all off the track of
you know, the real chuppy. Oh are you saying they
like give him a buzz job and then spread the
hair everywhere and say, oh, it was something else I'm saying,
say they they essentially like you know, shave their hair whatever,

(01:13:39):
and then set them loose to basically with the object
that they will attack livestock, be spotted, be reported as
this unearthly like, awful, monstrous creature which you know, darts
off into the darkness and uh, and that will basically
allow people like you to spread this kind of misinformation.
You know what I'm saying. I get it. I gotta yea.

(01:14:01):
I don't like the theory either. Okay, you know what
the theory I really like. So based on the area.
And by the way, this is not in the script,
so don't look at it because it's not gonna help
you out. Have you ever looked at the Mexican hairless dog,
the ones with the mohawks? Okay, a friend of mine
has a Mexican hairless and her name is Chupy. She
has gray, weird looking skin and a very briskly black mohawk.

(01:14:26):
And every time I read about the chub of Cobra,
I look at that dog and I think, well, you're
too cute and sweet to do that. But but maybe
if you didn't live in an apartment with kibble all
the time, you would do it. Probably probably all three
of us would do it too. We're desperate enough, but true. Also,

(01:14:48):
I also really want to have a hairless dog, except
my wife will not let me have a dog, a
hairless dog in the house because if you ever petted
a hairless animal, it's like petting your forearm, which is
weirdly soothe, but not to anybody else. I do not
pet my forearm. I got all kinds of weird stuff,
but I don't pet my forearms. See, this is what
keeps me comfortable in times of stresses. I just pet

(01:15:11):
my forearms. Well, let's go on to our next theory here,
which is, oh, oh, this theory. Actually, this is probably
one of our most solid theories we have to date,
which is the Chupa Cobra created this particular podcast and
has for the past five years forced us each week
to make it or pay us. You know, actually there

(01:15:33):
is a theory out there which is not really but
you know, Chupy might be actually the first self promoting
quasi mythical animal out there. He might be the you know,
the public the obverse of Bigfoot who actually is secretive.
It might be the Chupy just can't get noticed and
he's trying really hard. Listen, have you seen the book

(01:15:53):
written by the Bigfoot though write books book? I have
not seen that one agreed book. It's really good. Yeah,
it's really well written. Okay, there you go. There's also
we have one other theory here, which is that all
of these particular theories that we have read out today
are correct. And it turns out that we were not

(01:16:15):
in fact paid by the Chupa Cabra to foster more
and more disinformation about the Chupa Cobra and per the
that we all signed for the NDIA that we all
signed because he's true, we're not even supposed to be
saying what we're saying right now about that. Yeah, no,
lawyer me please please Okay, any other last chupacabra theories

(01:16:39):
that you guys want to throw it, I mean, personally
per our n d A. I don't believe we're allowed
to spread it. I don't think I'm gonna come down
on the side of an alien lead behind. Yeah, I
like the alien fluffy theory. Actually, yeah, I think so
tragically they're they're pet round off or just creators that
stowed away in the ship that kind of Yeah, that's

(01:17:01):
probably what it was. Yeah, alright, boys and girls, Well,
now that we've solved the mystery of the Chupacabra, we
need to talk about that bit of information that we
told you in the beginning of the episode that you
need to listen for. Yeah, so you're still listening. I
really hope they're listening to other oness gonna be really

(01:17:21):
really confused later, because here's the deal, guys, the Chupacabra episode,
this is our last episode. We are we're finishing the podcast.
I know you're gonna be upset about it, but I
want you know the reason why, and I want to
be honest with it, is that I personally I'm moving

(01:17:43):
out of the country. I'm moving to Southeast Asia, and
with the time zone differences and the unpredictability of internet connections,
there's just there's just no real way for us to
continue to make the podcast. And when I talked to
Joe and Devon about this one, when I knew and
I was gonna move, we figured it out and we said, listen,
the one thing we want to do is we want

(01:18:04):
to make sure we get to that five year mark.
We've were so close. Let's hit that anniversary. And that's
why we we've gone to this episode that we did.
By the way, people have asked us in personal interactions, well,
what would be your final episode? Well we always said, well,
it would have to be the chup of Cabra. So
thus why Choopy got to be the crowning final episode.

(01:18:26):
So there's some things that I would like to share,
some heartfelt things I'd like to express to all of
you who have supported us through the years. I want
to say thank you, And to all of you who
have wind and complained about the slightest perceived offenses, I
want to tell you to piss off. But seriously, honestly, uh,
it's been a blast getting to to bring the show

(01:18:47):
to everyone for all the years, and I loved getting
to interact with everyone. I mean, there's been so many
of you, and and the Internet is a dark and
scary place and you guys made it such a good
place to be and it was it was such a
positive thing that I really really appreciate that. I don't

(01:19:09):
know how better to express it than to say that.
But but don't worry. Just so you know, this is
not the final episode of Thinking Sideways. We're gonna be
releasing some more content. We forgot, content that was never
actually released into the regular feed, and we're gonna be
releasing that over the course of the next five or

(01:19:30):
six episodes or so five or six weeks. So keep
an eye out on that. And when it comes time
for any of us to start a new venture or
anything like that, we're gonna let you know. Our social
media is still going to be out there. Personally myself,
I'm gonna be taking time while I'm abroad to work

(01:19:50):
to focus on my photography. If you want to follow
any of that, you are more than welcome to do so.
I'm on Instagram and on two Twitter. On Instagram, i
am how Steve sees the world. On Twitter, i am
how Steve sees Those are the two places that you'll
see me. And we'll put this on the website so

(01:20:11):
that you can track all of that. But thank you
very much. I really really don't know how better to
say it, but it has been phenomenal. Yeah, I mean, I, um,
some of you already follow me on my personal personal
social media's um pretty much miss d K power everywhere.
And again we'll you know, push this out on social

(01:20:31):
media in case you want to connect with us. And
like Steve said, we're going to keep our thinking sideways
social media alive for as long as we can bear
to do it, which maybe another five years for all
we know. UM, And I just wanted to say what
an absolute joy it's been to see this community become
what it has, you know, you those of us that
have been here since the beginning. You know, we started

(01:20:53):
this five years ago and when we were first starting out,
it was just you know us and and pretty much
just us in Justin and Aaron from Generation Why doing
true crime and unsolved mysteries. And since then the community
has grown into something insane, which is for better for worse.
And I don't I don't want to call out our
friend podcasts for fear of leaving some some of them out,

(01:21:14):
but you guys know who you are, and we just
love you and have loved getting to know you and
want to send a huge and special shout out to
our Facebook mods who are Christina, Alexa, Kyle, Draco, Jamie
and Leslie. Without them, the Facebook group would have been
shut down four years ago easily. Most of all, I
just want to thank all of you for listening, everyone

(01:21:38):
who we met at meetups and and crime con everyone
who listened and emailed and helped make this really fun. Yeah,
thank you everyone for making this what it was for
the last five years, and for me for my part.
Sorry about the short notice on this. It's a little
bit of a real surprise for some of you, I'm sure,
and we're a little sad about this, but try to
remember it's not necessarily goodbye forever. We'll still be a round,

(01:22:00):
like I said on social media. And uh, you know,
I've been pondering the possibility of maybe a new podcast
or something. I don't know what, so you haven't heard
the last of us. Necessarily now, don't delete our podcast
from your feed, because if any of us starts a
new podcast, well at the first episode or so much
show up in our feet someday. And also, I have
restarted my Twitter account, which I've had since ten and

(01:22:23):
never use. I'm not going to give you my handle
because I wanted a new, spiffier handle that more fits,
you know, the whole thing that we're doing these days.
And when I went out and I had several good ideas,
every damn one was taken. And I'm really really and
and uh, you know, Davin had a wonderful suggestion was

(01:22:45):
was Skytrain, and some jerk has taken it, and I'm
really kind of angry about that. But anyway, so we
will figure out a handle for you, and we'll put
it on social media. We will, yeah, so that we'll
get that straight. Now, I'll get a handle out to
you guys so you can follow me on Twitter, which
I know you're dying to do. Then I I wanted
to echo what Devon said about our Facebook mods, who
are awesome, and I hope, by the way, I'm gonna

(01:23:06):
stick around for a little while because our our Facebook
and all their social and all our social media is
not going to just go away. Um. And also, of
course our fellow podcasters, again echoing Devon, they're awesome that
I kind of feel like there are extended family, kind
of without the weirdness, but we all get along great.
There's no backbiting, no ugly competition. Everybody's just awesome and

(01:23:27):
I love you guys, all of you. And then you've
all you've all been totally helpful over the years and
I really appreciate it. Uh. And lastly, of course, our
listeners and uh, I never thought that when we started
doing this that that many people would really want to
listen to us, and uh and of course not nearly
enough did, but still quite a few did, so that
was cool. Uh. We got a ton of messages from

(01:23:50):
people saying stuff like how much said they love these
weird little stories they've never heard before, or just you know,
you make my commute to work bearable, or you just
give me all these hours of on and enjoyment and
stuff like that, you know what I'm talking about. And uh,
these messages have really meant a lot to me because
they made me realize that our podcast, which we kind

(01:24:10):
of started as a lark, it really our podcast it
does make a lot of people's lives just a little
bit better. I'm not saying we're changing the world in
a huge way, but in a tiny way. We kind
of we kind of do make it a better place
I think anyway, And for me, that that has made
all the time we spent doing this really worthwhile. And
I hope everybody else feels the same about all the

(01:24:30):
time you've spent listening to us too. It's been great.
We love you guys, and again, well we will we
will see you again. Uh. And as as a final note, uh,
not so much to the listeners, but to you both.
Thank you so much. It's it's been amazing to work
with you, and I couldn't imagine doing this with anybody
other than you two jokers. It's it's been a weird one, right,

(01:24:55):
and at times it's been great and at times it's
been what is going on? It's a bit like being
on mushrooms, but it was a lot of fun. So yeah,
I couldn't. I couldn't imagine you too. I don't care
about you guys at all, so I don't care. Yeah,

(01:25:15):
that's kind of been apparent to me for a while now. Actually,
Devin started out with this is a just a young
woman in her mid twenties, um, and just watching her
grow into a young woman in late twenties has been
Oh my god, we got a Harry and the Hendricks. Alright,

(01:25:36):
Well to YouTube. Thank you to everybody, out there. Thank
you so much. Yeah, and by the way, just so
special thanks to Steve. Also because Steve was a guy
who really wanted to do something on the internet really bad,
and so it was actually kind of his idea to
do a podcast. So we're gonna get a little extra
credit for that. And also people don't know that Steve's
our editor. He's actually been editing the sound all these

(01:25:57):
years too. Yeah, so thank you for that. Thank you. Alright, guys,
shall we shall we roll this up? All right, everybody,
it's been good. A couple more episodes coming your way
in the feed. I believe there's gonna be five more
bits of unreleased audio that you haven't heard yet before
the whole thing closes up, shops, So thank you much.

(01:26:20):
We really really appreciate it, and in some form we'll
talk to you again. You'll be hearing from us sooner
or later, I think. Yeah, bye, guys, Bye bye. I
love you.

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