Thinking Sideways: Flight MH370

Team Sideways tackles the maddening mystery of how a jumbo jet loaded with hundreds of passengers could simply… vanish. Without a trace.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thinking Sideways. I don't I'm not stories of things. We
simply don't know the answer to breaking news in the

(00:28):
disappearance of Malaysia Air flights a glimmer of hope as
the Malaysian Prime Minister announced their press conference this afternoon
that he has asked the crack investigators of the well
known internet podcast Thinking Sideways to assist in the search. A.
Hi there, let's just Thinking Sideways and I am Joe,
assisted by and Steve. Yeah, I feel like I was yelling. Sorry.

(00:51):
So usually we taught we sort of tackle really ancient
mysteries that I've been around for decades, if not centuries
or even millennia, and of course we always solve them.
But this week we thought we'd do something a little
more topical. And you know what I'm talking about, Malaysia
Air Flight three seventy. That's right, We're gonna tackle this one.
We're gonna find those people and we're gonna bring them

(01:12):
back alive. Right yeah, right, okay, So let's launch right
into this. I mean, and I know that everybody who's
listening or have been hearing nothing but Flight three seventy
for the past week. So I'm not going to go
over all the little details, but I'll summarize just real quickly.
The flight took off from Cola up Or headed north

(01:34):
over the Malaysian Peninsula towards Beijing. I was supposed to
be about a five hour fly and initial reports from
the Malaysian government where that the a CARS, which is
the aircraft communications, addressing and reporting system they've been calling
the transponder, right, Yeah, well there's some of them mixed up,
the transponders, like because there's there's a CARS, but there's
also a transponder. Is something else that's a communication system? Yeah, yeah,

(01:58):
already I'm wrong, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the transponder is there.
It's just basically like kind of an echo thing if
you get, if you get it makes me more visible
to radar. And so yeah, basically what it does if
you get, if you get painted by radar, then it
sends a reply and so it makes you a lot
more visible to that radar. So okay, So anyway, a

(02:19):
car is apparently a CARS did stop communicating at some
point right about when they were crossing the coast, the
coastline into the ocean. Uh, and then somewhat after that
the transponder was shut off and that, and that it
wasn't a key spot because it was in the boundary
between Malaysian air traffic Control and Vietnamese air traffic control,

(02:39):
so kind of in that no man's land up. Oh so,
like after they had stopped communicating with Malaysia before they
had to start communicating with Vietnam, they shut it off. Yeah, well,
akar Acar stopped earlier, and then the transponder was shut off,
like right between Malaysia and Vietnam air traffic control. But

(02:59):
it turns out it ours was not entirely shut off.
They said that it was completely shut off, but apparently
it was still working because you've been hearing those stories
about about how the engines were pinging for hours afterwards. Yeah. Yeah,
apparently that that all that stuff goes to the a
car system. There's a there's an antenna and all this,
all that all that kind of stuff goes to a car.

(03:20):
So apparently it was shut off. In terms of communications.
They stopped receiving any text messages or other communication from
the people on the plane, but they were still and
and and and also that the engine stuff. But the
system itself is programmed to every half hour paying the satellite. Yeah.
So the way I've heard it described as like a

(03:40):
cell phone kind of right, the cell phone was turned off,
but cell phones still send out a little like hey
I'm here. Yeah, Hey I'm here. Yeah exactly, yeah, well
here yeah, and the context of the a car system
is called a handshake. Right. So they turned off the
like active part of this communication system. But that but
it's a little built in part still Still it wasn't

(04:02):
totally disabled system. Yeah, it's not like somebody like tore
it off. Brain fairly still attached and functioning and receiving energy,
I guess. Yeah. And so uh yeah, of course I
read a Ruyter's interview with six pilots who have experience
with the seven seventy seven, and they said that completely
disabled it would have required opening a hatch in the
floor of the plane, climbing down into a little room, uh,

(04:25):
and pulling a fuse. So not just like flipping a switch. No,
flipping a switch probably shuts off the communication bar but
actually but but so yeah, so it was still pulling
out little beeps and which allowed them to narrow the
search down to a very tiny field of like, you know,
millions of square miles. So and of course, yeah, so anyway,

(04:45):
let me real quick like, so the plane headed southwest
back across the Malaysian Peninsula, and at the time of
this of this course change, halfway between Malaysian and Vietnam,
the plane did go to take a big excursion to
fort thousands feet, which is beyond the operating envelope at
the airplane, I was to say, what are they normally
operated about normally? Now, cruising altitude for these is about

(05:09):
thirty five thousand feet and uh, and I think the
max recommended altitude for these is about forty two forty
three thousand feet tolerance. Yeah, so they had been like yeah,
so well, I don't know if it was rolling. It
did at least once it went up way high and

(05:30):
then dropped pretty low twenty three thousand feet, which is
below where they're supposed to be and it's about thirty
five ft And can you just remind me quickly what
about what time did the flight take off? Like what
time are we talking here? Did they leave in the
middle of the night. It was a red eye. It
was a red eye flight, so it was dark out.
It was dark when they left, it was dark and

(05:53):
when the everything got shut off it was still dark.
So uh, after after bouncing up and down and every thing,
it turned southwest, went across the Mala Pa Nizula, wound
up in the Malacca Straits. Then I know that place again,
I know. And then it turned northwest and it was
tracked for a while that by a military radar and

(06:15):
eventually left radar range. And so after that, the only
subsequent track it was done via the beeps it was
getting from the ACAR system. And so as you all know,
you've all seen the maps, I'm sure. So there's a
big line that goes all the way from northern Thailand
all the way to Kazakhstan, and there's another one that
goes southwest all the way to like Diego, Garcia or
somewhere around. And I was gonna say, is I found

(06:37):
a really great uh image or a map showing the
radius of how far it could have gone? And I
know that that will put that on the website, because
it really was you here, Okay, well it can go
for hours, but how far can it really go? Was
it the one that was captioned? Researchers say that Malaysian
air flight is probably somewhere on Earth. I feel like

(07:01):
quite a bit accurate description of where people think it
might be that the yeah or something. It's probably on Earth.
But it is amazing how far the stinken planes can go. Yeah,
I mean it technically could have gone all the way
to Kazakhstan in one direction. It could have almost made
it to Australia in the other directions. So it's that's
a huge area and I have to search. Yeah, and

(07:25):
a lot of it is water, yeah, probably, and water
has there's currents and winds and everything blow on your
wreckage all over the place. So the longer ago, so
harder it's going to be to find this. But it
did crash in the ocean. It had what two and
thirty nine people on it including the crew. Yeah, so yeah,
seven passengers and so it was not it was not
fully loaded, but still it wasn't empty. It wasn't jam pack,

(07:47):
but it was far from empty. And this is a
ABO seven and seven seven seventy seven er, which is
the extended range. Oh god, it's okay. I was That
explains that I kept seeing it, but I didn't know
what the name meant. Those extra bit of characters and
correct me if I'm wrong, But aren't those like some
of the most reliable planes out there right now, Like

(08:10):
they've never suffered a catastrophic failure before ever or something
like that. I think I read they've never crashed ever. Yeah, well,
there was that little thing in San Francisco that was
remember that a year a year a big crash in
San Francisco, and that was pilot area. That was pilot area.
You can't let the plane for that. But like, like
as far as the like actual plane itself goes, they

(08:30):
were saying, this is literally the most reliable plane out
there right now. So the fact that you know me
that it's people are saying, well, maybe it's you know, electrical,
maybe it was like a plane error, maybe the plane crash,
it fell out of the sky. People were kind of saying,
it seems unlikely given that it's never happened before. But again, right,

(08:51):
there's always first time for everything. Absolutely there is, you know,
and you know, there's there's a lot of theories out there.
I'll jump ahead a head of myself a little bit,
and one of the theories is that there was a
catastrophic decompression of the plane because they're hit by a meteor.
A meteor. Yeah, we're jumping right into crazy. Yeah. Yeah,

(09:12):
so so anyway, but but the last pin was that
was received from the A car system was at eleven am,
so that is like eight hours. That's like seven hours,
seven seven and a a half hours after they went. So yeah,
they were flying for a long time, which makes me
wonder if maybe they had more gas than they think,
because they were they had enough gas for a five

(09:33):
hour flight to Beijing that's about nautical miles. I think
I read that it had enough gas for eight hours
of flight because I think that they're supposed to carry
extra exactly. I mean, you don't want a full tank
because it's a lot of way to carry around. So
you also don't want you want enough to get you there,
and you want to you want to put a little
bit extra for headwind and that kind of thing. They

(09:55):
put a little extra in for diversion and a little
maybe a little safety cushion. After that, Well, you won't
still be landing on an empty tank. Yeah, well there
was there was an instance here in Portland some years
back where plane ran out of gas over PDX. Yeah.
I don't know if you remember hearing about that. Yeah,
it was like they were they weren't a holding pattern

(10:16):
over the airport, and I can't The reason was is
it his his some light had come on in his
cockpit that that indicated his his landing gear wasn't down
unlocked the way it should be. So he was flying
around and they were trying to figure it out, and
meantime he ran out of gas and crashed it in
a Portland neighborhood. Luckily managed to hit a vacant lot
and not too many people got killed. How long ago

(10:36):
was this? It was years ago, like seven or eight years,
would say, at least. Probably it's an old it'sn't old, Okay,
a long time ago got it, but it's been speaking
of but anyway, speaking of fuel, you know, there's there's
a lot of theories out there, of course that this
is some sort of conspiracy to hijack the plane and

(10:58):
take the plane. And so as far as the fuel
that was on the plane, um, you know, you don't
really know how much got put into it because of
somebody in the ground crew was in on the whole thing,
then he could have actually put quite a bit more
fuel in there. And so how do you know how
much is like capacity like if it had been like

(11:19):
fall up, how much fly time would it have had
um in terms of I'm not sure about time because
that depends on your speed. But the max range of
the e R is seventies seven hundred nautical miles, which
is like fourteen thou some kilometers something like that, which
is like, yeah, I mean like just like an average speed,

(11:42):
that'll get you a long way. So probably from from
where they were at that I imagine that would get
you to Europe. It will certainly get you if you
wanted to go to kazakh Stan or Pakistan, and will
get you there easy. Yeah, it doesn't look to it.
It seems to me that based on the field that
they had, if that's accurate, they didn't quite have enough
to get them to Kasakh Stand or wherever there's some
people are claiming they might be. But at the same time,

(12:04):
if you look at those arrows and the fact that
they were getting pain from that position at the eleven
in the morning, well they were almost there, so maybe
they did. Maybe they made it, I don't know what.
So now now that we've got all the sort of
basics down there, time to time to launch into the
crazy theories. And they're not all crazy. Some of them

(12:25):
are really rational pretty good, and some of them are
a little out there, but you know, but you know,
I've I've actually not included some of the most loneist ones.
But don't worry, alright. So I divided the theories into
into two categories. One is how, the other is why.

(12:46):
So if you want to know, how did this happen?
And why did it happen? Okay, So how so how
did this thing disappear without a trace? Again, we've all
seen the maps that indicate these arcs going northwest and
also going southwest over the ocean. But since it was
already headed northwest, I would surmise that it probably continued

(13:08):
to go northwest. And so but if it continued to
go northwest, it was it was going over all kinds
of countries, a lot of countries airspace, like including China
and places like that that are kind of touchy about
their airspace. So how did ebate all these military radars
of all these countries that it flew over? Okay, So

(13:28):
theory number one, it didn't evade them across Chinese airspace
and they shut them down. Well, and yeah, yeah, and
now they're keeping quiet about it because there's kind of
an embarrassing faux pas. I was talking to somebody before
this about this, you know theory, and they said, yeah,
but wouldn't somebody report that, like from China? And I thought,
I feel like China is the perfect place to shoot

(13:50):
somebody down there, right, there's a lot of open space.
I just listened to something about how China is actually
trying to relocate most of their farmers into urban area. Ye.
So there's like a lot of kind of rural areas
that are just abandoned with no old people. Yeah. China's
like most countries around the world to most of the
population is actually close to the coast. And this would

(14:13):
be as far away from the Chinese coast as you
can imagine the desert out there. Yeah, so it would
be kind of a good place to shoot down So anyway,
and then China, of course is what covering this up,
because they were like, oh, oops, yeah, exactly, and so
they and and and so. First thing that happens, the
pilot comes back, so they shoot him because he might talk.
So and then they sent about a brigadi of soldiers

(14:33):
up there to clean up the mass and sanitize the side,
and of course they shoot them and put them in
a mass grave, and then of course the other Brigadi
soldiers that had to dig the mass grade to bury
then they are they all have to be shot too.
But eventually, you know, eventually you get far enough down
the l Yeah. Yeah, so that's a possibility. I'm not
I don't totally give that a lot of credence myself.

(14:55):
It does seem like somebody would have come forward and
says something by now that pretty pretty big stretch. Yeah
it is. And also I don't know if you guys
have noticed a Chinese or kind of like the Russians
and that they don't really care about world opinion very often.
It would have been very easy for them to say
they weren't responding to us, and we thought it was
a danger, so we shot them down. Sorry, everyone, it's

(15:17):
unknown aircraft and we thought it could have been a
nuclear bomber, god knows what, you know. Definitely not like
a good defense. But I gotta tell you one thing,
if if if an unidentified Boeing seven seventy seven shows
up outside like say Tel Aviv or Manhattan anytime in
the next week or two, it's going to get shot down.
Yeah yeah, yeah, alright, So another theory is that innovated

(15:43):
radar because it flew in the shadow of another airliner.
Oh I really like this. Yeah, it's it's a very
credible theory. So a blogger who's in the aviation his
name is Keith Ledgerwood. He matched up MH three seventies
course to another flight another having seventy seven by the way,
which is Singapore Air flight sixty eight, which is a

(16:04):
route from Singapore to Barcelona, and it takes a route
that kind of goes crosses where our flights three seventy
was and continues on westward kind of westward, of northwestward
across India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etcetera, and so, and it was
about at the same time. So he compared their flight

(16:26):
paths and the timing and everything like that, and they
were very close to each other, and our flight seven
he could have swung in behind and just sort of
shadowed it across all these countries, which would have required
them to shadow them pretty closely. He would have. They
would have had to be within about a thousand meters.
What about below how do you mean right underneath like

(16:47):
not like but like within a hundreds like but below thousands? Well, no, yeah,
you wouldn't want to be right smacked behind me. Wanted
either be above. But like if you was like kind
of ow it, that gives you a little bit, then
what does it give it more wiggle room? Is it? Like, yeah,
it gives you a little more. I mean, obviously the
guy at Singapore Flight is not going to slam on

(17:08):
his brakes. It wouldn't have any reason to you. But
you know, you hit a little turbulence something like that.
I mean, things can cause you to slow down and
speed up and things like that, so obviously you want
to give yourself as much wiggle room as you can,
but still straight close. But and what I was wondering
about that is, and I don't know this, so I'm
going to ask, and I'm going to guess you have
the answer. Is do planes, when they're in the air

(17:31):
to track other planes that are around, do they run
any kind of active radar of their own or they
just follow their plan and presume nobody's going to be
in the way. They leave it up to air traffic control. Yeah, yeah,
they don't run active active radar. I'm just thinking it
was like, well, you know, why wouldn't he see that
other plane if he accidentally got a little ahead of him,
because they're always falling behind and a little in front.

(17:53):
But if it's at night flying it, all their lights
are on. That's what transponders off, and they're trusting right,
air traffic control will be like, dude, there's a plane.
Real clocks to get out of the way. Sorry. You
ever see that movie Pushing Tin Now? I never saw that.
It's oh Billy Bob Thornton and I can't remember. Yeah,

(18:21):
but it's there their air traffic controllers and all the
crazy stuff that goes on, and that's that's when I
can just I just I imagine that would be really
difficult to be in that same situation while you're in
your own plane. Yeah. So yeah, in terms of in
terms of the civilian flight control, it probably would have
worked just fine, especially since their transponder was off, because

(18:41):
apparently the resolution on on civilian radars is not as
precise as militaries military radars they have a higher resolution,
which is why you have to stay really really close
to keep them from figuring out as two separate objects.
Although it's possible to they might see two separate objects
and just concluded was a it was a echo, just
an echo or or something like that. So uh, and

(19:01):
then of course it could have peeled off anywhere, like
say Pakistan, you know, gone out in Pakistan has lots
and lots of big air strips. I had heard a
theory that that or somebody claiming on the internet, and
of course it was the internet right that Boeing was saying, no,
you landed in Pakistan. But I have problems with that
theory for other reasons. So they're they're claiming that Boeing

(19:23):
is saying specifically they know where it's landed, but that
like their technology tracking right, because there's I guess that there. Yeah,
exactly was said that that it had landed in like
Taliban controlled Pakistan. But I just feel like the Taliban
are not the kind of group who are like, yeah,
let's play this one close to the chest. Let's just

(19:45):
like keep it on the d L like, let's tell
anybody that we have this plane, and we have this plane.
It depends on what they're going to do with it.
If you're gonna fly over to Tell with a bunch
of dirty bombs or New Yorks or something like that,
then you obviously don't want to advertise a have it,
but I mean obviously you are. I mean, like already
this plane is like high profile. Yeah, well you gotta

(20:07):
you want to definitely hide that thing and be discreet
and how you bring it out. I was reading it
because they actually interviewed some Taliban he's some Taliban guys
and one of them, one of the spokesman spokesman, denied
that that they had it, and they said they knew
nothing about it. And they interviewed some other jihadi type guy,
I don't know if he was Taliban or not, and
he was saying he saying, no, we don't have it. Wow,

(20:28):
that would be so cool. I really wish I wisht that,
ye know, I would really love that. Sorry that was
a little little side track. Yeah, So anyway, I find
that there would be kind of credible that might have
allowed them to evade radar. So next theory, how did
they evade radar? Well, maybe they didn't go northwest. Maybe

(20:49):
they actually did go southwest and head off sort of
towards Diego, Garcia in that direction south Indian Ocean, and
that eventually either found how to remote island somehow somewhere
out there that had a long enough airstrip for them
to land on Well, according to one nut job, he
says that they crashed or he says that they probably
crashed into the air base at Diego, Garcia, destroying lots

(21:10):
and lots of valuable aircraft in the process. And according
to this guy, this guy's conspiracy theory, the government's coming
and covering it up because that's just what they do,
and they're embarrassed earlier something and there there has been
talk that it went to, uh is it on Deman
Islands there in the Bay of Bengal and they're they've

(21:31):
got there's one airport there that's big enough. Evidently they
could land a triple seven. And so if it was
heading southwest ish, that's you can understand where it was
at a relation it could have gone there, except that
nobody saw it. Yeah, exactly. They're popular, they're populated, and
somebody would have noticed something huge like that coming into
their airplane airport. Well, and I don't think that it's airport.

(21:55):
That is what we consider an airport as in not
a good tarmac, but it's kind of dirt. So you
would imagine the landing gear in a plane that heavy
coming in that fast would sink and snap and crash
and then all see it, but they didn't. The pilot
of this flight have like eighteen or like twenty years
of flight experience, like hours. Yeah, he was like a

(22:18):
really experienced pilot, so here shaw I think, and and
he was like he was a guy and he uh
is apparently or was hopefully is but it really endo flying.
And as you guys have all heard, I'm sure that
he had this flight simulator set up in his house
and I saw I saw a picture of it. Was

(22:39):
was really a pretty cool set up. It's like six
big screens, big screen monitors and and a yoke and
all that stuff. It was. I think that's you know,
one of the interesting things is people keep talking about
this is like when you look at pilots who are
like going to be successfully be able to avert a
midlight like a midflight crisis. This is the kind of
pilot look for, right, Like he's supposedly like a really

(23:02):
great pilot. Yeah, so he may have been capable of
landing in I'm sure he actually was probably capable of
landing in less than ideal circumstances. Might have also made
him overconfident, Oh I've done this, I've done this before.
And simulators have done this a thousand times. I can
totally make this work, no problem. No, don't worry about that.

(23:24):
I know you don't do that. I got this. You
you know the guy who says I know it all.
I'll take control of it all. Hang on the stick,
everybody else, get out of the cockpit. Yeah, although cowboy mentality,
and to be fair, right, we did just kind of
mentioned this though people would have seen this like something
would have said, I always saw that thing. Yeah, I
know there could be uh, you know, I read one

(23:46):
little bit somebody said that there was an old World
War two B twenty nine landing strip in the Ottoman
Islands somewhere, and I went out looking to try to
find any any corroboration of that, and I couldn't find anything.
So I have no idea there. And of course it
depends if if somebody's actually using it, then it's gonna
be kind of hard to not be noticed. If somebody

(24:06):
nobody has been using it since World War Two, it's
gonna be in such sad shape that, you know, it
might not be possible to land on. So I you
know again, but that the Pacific, I found a site
where this guy it wasn't. It was not a well
designed site at all. But this guy had pictures and
drawings of of quite a few old landing strips out
in the Pacific. And they're all over the place. I mean,

(24:27):
they really are from from especially if dating from World
War two time. There's a lot of a lot of
little atolls and islands that just got turned into basically
airports and nothing else. Some of those places, it's just
a big runway and a little bit of extra land
and that's it. And they're out in the middle of nowhere.
So it's entirely possible they found one of these things.
I mean, if it was a really well oiled, well

(24:48):
organized conspiracy, which of course we're not sure. We're not
sure that it is. It could have been totally just
kind of an accident kind of thing. But but but
they could have actually found one of these things and
gotten a small freight or something like that and trucked
out all the fuel that they need to refuel it
and get it back on its way and get it
somewhere to hide it up, to hide it. And so

(25:08):
it's entirely possible. These things are all over the place. Well,
I I was looking on the internet and uh W
N y C, which is out of New York. They
were doing a bunch of research on it. I found
some of their stuff and they were saying that from
the last one of the last known locations in that
big circle of where this plane could have landed, there's

(25:29):
over six hundred airports or runways that are big enough
to land that triple seven. So it is possible that
it was on an island, or it's some random remote
airport somewhere that it somehow didn't get picked up by
the radar. So it could possibly have been, you know,
brought down and any number of places. And this is

(25:50):
of course saying that it came down whole and was
landed successfully. But there's also but there was one that
I came across, and and this is getting into the
you know, how did nobody see it kind of thing
is and this is a really far fetched theory, and
I'm going to say that on the outset, but somebody

(26:11):
was saying that it was using cloaking technology and that's
why you couldn't see it on the radar. Uh And
there's a company called Freescale Semiconductor, and evidently they had
twenty people twenty employees on that plane, and it sounds
like they're involved in some government contracts, so potentially they

(26:33):
could be in this we're trying to make invisibility cloak
research stuff, and so maybe they did a live test
of it and that's why they had so many of
their employees on there. I I and this is this
reminds me if remember at Lisa Lamb somebody said, oh,
well there's an invisibility cloak. This is kind of long
that same vein. But it's one of those series. It's

(26:57):
out there. I don't put a lot of stock in it.
It is out there. I think a more a more
feasible technology. If you wanted a cloaking technology, um, something
that would hide you from radar rather than you know,
the visible life spectrum would be a lot more useful.
And so you can I can you can imagine them
doing something like that, like one of the thought one
of the things they've talked about with with radar and
also a sonar instead of trying to have like you know,

(27:18):
sort of a stealth configuration of your whole or whatever
your plane shape. Instead when you receive a signal and
you know some of that's going to echo back to
those people, which do is you So when you when
you're hit with a signal, your computer just automatically sends
back a canceling tone. So you know how canceling tones work. Yeah,
so it's like like in sound. In sound, if if

(27:40):
you're if your sound is being admitted, then you and
you admit sound at the same time. That is exactly
the opposite in the terms of the wavelength and the
same wavelength, but they're just out of sync with each other,
like they cancel each other out and you get silence.
And there's been discussion about that kind of technology for
things like radar and sonar. So yeah, so that's a

(28:00):
conceivable thing, but again that's kind of hard to cover up. Okay,
So I was reading today and I think this is
the thing that came out like literally today, that there
were some residents on a like really remote island in
the Maldives. Is that how you say that those islands
Aldives that saw jet matching the Malaysian airplane description flying

(28:23):
as low maybe as eighty feet but probably more like
five thousand feet. Some people said they could see, like
clearly see the doors on this airplane was flying solo,
they said, Then they yeah, it's super low. They said
that they saw a large airliner or a jumbo jet
um that was described as being white with red stripes

(28:46):
on it, which is what the Malaysian air flight or
the Malaysian air airplanes look like flying overhead um sometimes
kind of last week and they're kind of they're in
that radius. So I guess that's another theory, right, is
that they could have maybe just flown so low that
they were below radar, right, because that the thing you

(29:07):
can do if you're especially if you're a good pilot.
So I mean, you know it's a thing, right that
you can fly low to avoid the radar and it
up your fuel consumption. Is that true? But I don't
think the Maldives are like that far out of range. No,
It's just a question where do you go from there,

(29:29):
especially since you know you're you're using up to feel
att a buch higher rate because you're flying so low, right,
So I don't know if I mean, I think that's
kind of an area where there are a lot of islands, right,
a lot of small islands. So I wonder if there's
a small island that's fairly uninhabited or that's controlled by
a certain group or something that they could have landed

(29:49):
on and refueled or just be on and and and
this is the weird thing, is that? Okay, so let's
just say that that somebody for whoever it is, jack
this plane. I don't I'm not saying who was involved,
but they hijacked the plane and they landed on one
of these little islands. What are you going to do
with it? What's the deal? Why are what are you

(30:12):
doing with this plane? I don't understand. That's what I
can't understand. Come across all of these they were hijack theories.
Is what are you going to do with that giant
freaking plane? Well, I'm not not I guess it's not
even what are you going to do with that plane? Right?
But like what are you doing with the two and
thirty nine people that are definitely worth money to a

(30:34):
lot of countries? Well that's that's that's it. And that
let me go to some of these things that this
whole thing is is weird, and it makes me think
of two different things and one only two. Well, no,
and this this is going down a different road. But
did either of you ever watch the Terrible miniseries or

(30:55):
read the book The Lango Leers by Stephen King. Okay,
it was this story of basically this plane that slipped
out of time and then landed at an airport, and
the languo Leers. Time every second is rebuilt and these
things come along and they destroy it to recycle it

(31:16):
to use later is kind of what the theory is.
The story sounded much more interesting than the Mini Mini
series was because it was really badly done because it
was made for TV. But it makes me think of
that because it was just just plane that just disappeared, okay,
or it makes me think of Lost, Yeah, where this
plane just disappears and nobody really cares that this plane disappeared.

(31:39):
So I think I sent this out. As some of
you may know, there's this little website called Reddit. There's
this little there's this little so I read it called
No Sleep, which is not meant to be like true
stories necessarily, but some of them are touts true stories.
And there's like a thread recently, not really I think

(32:01):
I told you about it when it was happening. It
was like, actually, I guess it was like when we
first started of this guy who posted this story called
my Last Flight, and it was just this really long
story about how he was on this flight and suddenly
like they had this engine glitch or something and then
it like they slipped out of time. Basically they were
just like in blackness. And then like a day later

(32:25):
he posted a picture and it was like super like
all the text that went with it was like really
really garbled, and it was like a picture of him
sitting next to the window, not him, but like his laptop,
and he had written his like Reddit user name out
and said like please help on this flight or something
like that, taking a picture of that next to the window,
and the window was like totally black, and if it

(32:47):
was a photoshop, it was like a really really great photoshop.
Maybe when it was nighttime. It wasn't like nighttime, like
I just I it was solid black, you know what,
like when you like take a picture out. I've taken
pictures out of an airplane window when it's night It
didn't look the same as that, but you're right, maybe

(33:09):
it was anyways, so it's it's totally similar, right, where
Like people were kind of talking about this like this
phenomenon of like slipping out of time, kind of referencing
like an Amelia air Heart sort of thing people just
like slipping out of time or like ships slipping out
of time, things like that. So, I mean, you know,
I know it's a crackpot theory, but I kind of

(33:29):
like it. It's it's it's an interesting thing to think, absolutely,
and it's also a nice way to think of it
because these people who have disappeared, well they're they're not dead.
They're just haven't come back yet. They're just trapped in
another dimension being being like tortured by time goblins. Goblins

(33:51):
I've never heard of time goblins have. All right, well,
let's get into the wise here. Let's talk about the
wise alright, no particular order. So why did this happen?
One possibility mentioned was that suicidal pilot syndrome. One of
the pilots wanted to commit suicide and do it in
a spectacular way. The problem with that is, you know,
if you want to if you want to crash your
plane and die and take a couple of hundred people

(34:13):
with you, why do you think around for seven and
some seven and a half hours the second thoughts? Second thoughts,
seven thoughts. Yeah, the dumbest thing I ever heard in
my entire Yeah. No, there is one possibility when you
think about it. I mean, so when they first started
going a little bit erratic, and they took that excursion
of forty five feet, so I can imagine, say, let's

(34:35):
say one of the pilots clocks the other one on
the head because obviously the other one's not going to be,
you know, too coopathetic about the whole thing, you know,
and so he clocks him on the head and then
just like takes the plane starts shooting the plane's highs
you can go, and then just decompresses the entire plane,
you know, hYP hypoxias sets in and and and everybody's
dead and moments including you know, the suicidal pilot. And

(34:58):
it takes one I did, because the air mass still drop,
but they only have enough air for like ten or
fifteen minutes or something like that is what I read. Yeah,
so I mean, you wouldn't have to stay up there
for a super long time before everybody just eventually passes
out and dies. Yeah, exactly, including you the pilot. And
then I also heard the theory of catastrophic decompression in

(35:21):
the like sucking everybody out of the plane catastrophica. Well,
there's that. It depends on the size of the whole,
because there've been there have been incidents like that in
the past, where there was one where a big, a
big section of a plane it was like going to Hawaii,
I think, and a big chunk of it just blew away.
It just tore off. And yeah, what stewardess got She

(35:42):
was not belted in, so she got sucked out the
whole and bye bye and uh. But apparently apparently she
was the only casualty because everybody else was wearing their seatbelts.
And actually, after I saw that story in the news,
I started getting more religious about wearing my seatbelt on
airplane totally. The thing is, Hollywood is screwed up everybody
perspective of what happens with the You know, when a

(36:03):
cabin depressure rises, everybody's hold god, everything, and all the
seats come on unbolted, and yeah, ever happen, they're pretty stout. Yeah,
that is a total trope by Hollywood. Yeah, I mean
if you see that on a movie and suddenly every
every seat just rattle rattle rattle, Yeah not real, no, no,

(36:24):
not sorry to break your heart, but he's super shoddy airplane.
Yeah maybe back in the day, not anymore. But yeah,
definitely if you know, but if you're not built it in, well, yeah,
you could very wind up, very well wind up going
out through that hole. But of course that's way did decompress,
ways to decompress the cabin without creating a big tornado
of wind sucking. Yeah, but yeah, there, but there are

(36:46):
other scenarios to like there. There is the whole failure scenario,
which also incident that happened a while back, and that
I was telling you guys about peeled away, which is
not really consistent with the safety record of the seven
seventy seven, but it could happen. Nor are like all
the other stuff that happened on it, right, Yeah, well
it's not consisted. Yeah, so that could cause a massive
decompression and incapacitate the crew and all the passengers. But

(37:09):
that wouldn't really explain why they took an excursion to
feet now, it doesn't explain that at all because that
kind of defeat that's counterintuitive. If you have a cabin
decompression issue, you go down, yeah, you go lower. Although okay,
so if stuff wasn't working right, like if they got

(37:30):
maybe hit by a meteor or whatever, right, I don't
know what happens to all the equipment inside of you
if your cabin de compresses, right, So, and if you're no,
I think I'm thinking more like, what's that other one
we were talking about where it was in the middle
of the night and if your equipment wasn't working particularly well,
you wouldn't totally know which way was up or down?

(37:53):
Oh yeah, that h so maybe I mean he was
he was a very skilled pilot, this guy right right,
and he had a much more technological he would like
on low oxygen or like panicking in the moment. Yeah,
decompression wouldn't cause the instruments on the plane to malfunction,
but they definitely could could interfere with your judgment, you know, perception.

(38:14):
So it's possible. So he thought he was going down
and he was going up, Yeah, which is making even
worse just getting better? Wise, th't this getting better? And
then dive because yeah, again I don't. I don't buy
that because they have oxygen masks in the in the cockpit,
and I imagine they have a much longer time than

(38:37):
I have heard. I've heard vary varying lengths. I've heard
thirty minutes on those. So it's about a double what
the cabin time is. But that's more than enough time
to get you down, get you self down to under
ten thousands, to regain your judgment and realizing right. And
so the thing about it is is like it's just
like what they tell you when you're on the plane.
They say if if, if, if this mask pops out,

(38:58):
and say, you get your kids right next to want
to put the mask on the kid, You put your
mask on first. Before you put the mask on the kid.
You put that mask on yourself first, because if you don't,
then you might wind up just succumbing to hypoxia. And
so the same thing was so the same thing with
the pilots. I mean, when that mask pops out, the
very first thing they're gonna do is grab that they

(39:18):
can put it on their face. And so they're probably
not going to have any sort of mental issues or
anything like that. They shouldn't. They shouldn't. Yeah, Okay, so suicidal,
we're gonna we're gonna rule out the suicidal pilot syndrome
um and I think we can really rule out a
sudden accidental decompression. Another theory that's been floated is that
it was taken for ransom. So the plane and the

(39:40):
passengers are worth a hell of a lot. Those those
planes retail for two d and sixty two million bucks.
Ye ye, yeah, I know. So the insurers, I'm sure
it would be happy to pay like, you know, fifty million,
a hundred million to get it back. Yeah. Yeah, the
peoples a ransom all of those people off as well. Yeah.

(40:01):
I feel like human beings are worth a good amount
of money to people who they usually the usually are. Yeah.
So you know, somebody is speculated that there may be
secret negotiations already underway, said it might be maybe maybe
a government or governments are negotiating with these people. That's
the thing I ever heard. Well, yeah, the third time
I've heard that tonight. Yeah. The uh, it seems a

(40:24):
little unlikely because the problem with that is is that
there's really no reason to keep it a secret. And
if you do keep it a secret, when eventually you
publicize the fact that you kept all these families in
the dark for all this time, I mean, it's going
to be hell to pay. So I find that a
little hard to believe. Uh, and and and so since
it's not likely to have been kept secret, then obviously

(40:44):
ransom seems to be kind of out of the picture.
I've got I've got one, you got one, Yeah, I've
got another one that I came across, which the background
audit is that evidently Boeing has been in the process
of trying to upgrade the network system in their planes,
the internal networks that tied all the computers, and those
planes have a USB drive at every seat or a port,

(41:09):
I should say, not a drive, but a port, and
Boeing is realized that the networks are all tied together,
as in every computer in the plane, including the flight computer,
is all network together. So it's possible that somebody could
have not hijacked it, but they're calling it a hack jack.

(41:30):
They hacked the system. And then if I've got my
little tablet in my hand and I plug it in
and I hit the button and it executes a program,
and suddenly I'm in control of the plane and is
playing the controls on my you know, and doing stuff
on my little tablet. Nobody's the wiser. The crew is
freaking out, but nobody knows. And so I could plug
in a new course and all my new settings and

(41:52):
just let the thing go on autopilot and shut down
all the communications, so it goes dark and it's not
painting anything because I'm just in control. I'm just sitting
here flying the plane. Now. I don't know why somebody
would do that, and I know how the heck they
would have got it back on the ground. But it's
real hard to land a plane on autopilot. I feel, yeah,

(42:15):
probably actually a lot of I've crashed many a plane
in a flight similarly simulator trying to do autopilot. It's
not good. Supposedly most of the modern planes can land themselves.
They don't. Actually, yeah, they can land themselves. So but
but the whole thing about it is is, um, you've
taken command of the plane. And by the way, there's
just an editorialized for a second. Boeing really actually did

(42:36):
network the flight computer and all that stuff in with
all the other stuff in the plane. What an idiotic
thing to do. I suspect they didn't intentionally do it,
but that their firewalls were not as robust as they
thought they were sore the process of upgrading everything to
try and separate it. Evidently, according to the reports that
I've read, I think like it would be like, I mean,

(42:57):
a skilled hacker, if you're if you share hardware with
the thing that's connected by the same wires, right, even
if it doesn't technically share the same network, if you've
still got wires that are connected to the same hardware,
you can hack into it. But it's I mean, it
takes it like a very malicious, thoughtful act. Yeah, yeah,

(43:20):
definitely idiots. Yeah yeah, well if that's true, I don't know.
It's it's hard. It's hard to believe that they could
possibly have done something like that. Yeah, but you ever now,
I mean, this goes back to why would you do that?
What are you now doing now that you've done it? Yeah?
So the problem I have with with that is number one,
you're taking a big chance that you're not going to
screw things up and get yourself killed. And the other

(43:41):
thing is that you take over the plane and you're
flying it off to wherever you feel like taking it
off to. What's the first thing the pilots you're gonna do.
They Well, they're going to try to get control back
first of all. Second of all, they're going to get
on the radio and start talking to ground controls. Not
if they've if you've disabled the communications right there, Clearly,
if you can hack into the computer. You can shut

(44:03):
down all the communications, so they wouldn't be able to
call because you've turned the power off, for lack of
a better term, you shut down the radio, You've shut
down everything. You're turning off all the corresponding systems. They
can call all they want, but they're talking into a
dead mic. Yeah, so this hack, it would have to
be somebody who really knew a hell of a lot

(44:25):
about the second. It would have to be somebody that
somehow got ahold of Boeing's information to know how they're
os were. Yeah, I was thinking there had to be
somebody that actually actually wrote code for Boeing. I would
think you would think or had had gotten access to it,
then interpreted, figure out how to how to get in it,
rewrite and all. I mean, there's there's a whole host
of things that would be required for this to be

(44:47):
a viable situation or viable way for it to happen.
It's possible, It's scarily possibly. Yeah, the Malaysians are now
they're they're looking into every single passenger that was on
the plan, and so there any ex Boeing employees that
were on the plane. I guess, I guess we'll find
out about it. Yeah, well, you know, they were they
were focusing on the two guys that were on the

(45:08):
plane that had fake passports, were stolen passports, and they've
obviously ruled them out. Evidently they see now those guys
were seeking asylum somewhere else. Yeah, they've they've been looking
into randomly people. So it sounds like systematically they're doing
it now, Is that what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, they are,
they're they're they're pretty much checking out everybody that was
on the plane. I'm sure some people, you know, are

(45:30):
getting more scrutiny than other people, but yeah, definitely everybody's
being looked at. So what about a fire. There's a fire,
it's a possibility, like an electrical fire of some kind,
that is that is one of the things that yeah, yeah,
it came across. So here's here's how this breaks down.
And it was a pilot I think that that posted

(45:50):
this or it was in this news article. Basically how
I understand it happening is what he was theorizing is
that if at takeoff there is a fire, a fire
starts with the landing gear because it was it was hot,
so the tires would have had as much pressure in

(46:10):
them too, because the compensate for that or because of that,
and so then that would cause a small fire to
start in the gear, which then would work through the
hydraulic lines then could get into the electrical system. So
then it causes an electrical system fire, which, according to
this guy, then the pilots would This might explain why

(46:31):
everything shut off. Is the pilots are, oh God, something's
on fire. They're trying to put out the fire, and
they're also going through and yanking all the electrical busses
out to stop electricity flowing too so that it doesn't spread.
And either it damages something enough that when they put
it back in it doesn't work, or they just can't

(46:51):
get it in for whatever reason. They can't get the
whole thing to come back up. Uh. And that actually, Joe,
which the plane change cores? And which way did it
head when it had its sudden weird diversion in course?
Southwest so or northwest right? Yeah, And they were saying
that the change in elevation may have been because of

(47:12):
the problems with the computer, because of the fire, And
then this guy was saying that, Okay, well, I can
totally explain why this pilot did this is there he's
saying that the pilot was going to the lank Cowie Island. Yeah.
And the reason that they say that they would have
gone to this airport is pilots are trained that when

(47:33):
your systems are hosed, you don't want to go near
anything that has obstacles, and you don't want to go
near anything that has people. So they're going to take
an oversea route with no mountains in the way, and
they're going to do their best to get to that
airport to then land in a catastrophic situation. And according

(47:54):
to him, it sounds like then he's saying, basically they
were trying to get there and they probably didn't make it.
Put down in the seat, yeah, yeah, So like HOWI
is like, it's kind of on their route. I mean,
they were headed in that direction, but it's on the
opposite side of the peninsula. But there's no giant there's
no big mountains, it's very low terrain, so they don't
have to because they probably don't have you know, all

(48:16):
their systems are hosed, so it's very easy just to
go this direction. No, I'm not going to run into anything,
literally run into anything. Yeah, and then and then what happened?
Why do they not land there? He thinks that because
of the the electrical fire, it just sabotaged the system
so bad that eventually they gave out and the plane crash.

(48:37):
Like yeah, that's it's it just seems like there's a
lot more land in between where they were and where
they were going than there is ocean, right because where
do I mean right now? Okay, he's crossing a lot
more land and get into this and then yeah, and

(48:57):
they made they flipped a U turn in like kind
of on the ocean, right Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean
I'm not I think it's a really interesting compelling theory. Yeah,
it's it's valid based on this guy's experience, and he
puts forth a good case. Yeah, definitely. So, I mean
it's hard to say. So Okay, it's a electrical fire.

(49:19):
That's a definite possibility. Another theory that's put been put
forth is that the plane was taken because there was
a person or an object on the plane that the
pirates really wanted badly. Oh, that it was air piracy. Yeah,
so pirates. But you know that's that's the whole thing
about that is there's got to be easier ways to
get your hands on that person or that object. There's

(49:42):
got to be easy. Didn't we learn anything from Ocean's
eleven through Yeah? I thought it was eleven eighteen or something.
Was just the three of them? Yeah, they only made three.
It just seemed like they kept coming. I know it
was extensive. Yeah, back to back to square one here. Okay,
So another series that it was hijack for an immediate
nine eleven style attack, and uh, of course taking it

(50:04):
back to Kuala Lumpur would be great for that because
Kawala Empurr has got lots and lots of really tall
buildings and it'd be it'd be a great target for
your Alqaia types because as you as you guys all know,
I'm shared, Malaysian Islam is a lot more moderate than
your hardcore um Islamist kind of stuff. Is. Well, it's
right near Singapore kind of two, right, yeah, and there's
lots of big buildings building to fairly liberal and western

(50:27):
there's yeah, yeah, and so you know, lots of good
tall buildings to crash into. The British Intelligence had had
interrogated a guy on Alkada type who informed on them
and he was aware he was a Malaysian. He was
aware of some Malaysian Al Qaida members who wanted to
pull off a nine eleven style attack. According to this guy,

(50:48):
he went to the informer went to a training camp
in Afghanistan, and they gave him a couple of real
high tech exploding shoes and shoe bombs. Yeah and so
really yeah, and so you've got in contact with these
when when he was he was, they instructed him. At
some point he got him back to he got them
back home, and they instructed apparently he got instructions from

(51:09):
all kind of central or whatever that this group of
Malaysians was serious and when that he should turn over
one of his shoe bombs to them so that they
could use it to blow open the cockpit door. Because,
as you know, cockpit doors are a lot stronger than
they used to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're and they're
heavily reinforced now they're they're a lot beef here and
they used to be. So the idea was that they
were gonna this group was going to use the shoe

(51:30):
bomb to blow open the door and take over the
airplane and go do another nine eleven. So it's conceivable
something like that happened. That would explain, for example, the
excursion of forty feet, because if you're the pilots of
the plane and you got these guys, these guys coming
into your cockpit, what do you do. You'd like, hammer
the throttles forward as hard as you can and point

(51:52):
that nose up and send them tumbling back down the cabin.
Bring that. Yeah, yeah, I I The problem I have
with these terrorist theories is that I feel like the
big terrorist groups again I think I said this a
little bit earlier, aren't necessarily known for their like play

(52:16):
close to the chest behavior. When they do stuff like this,
they're like, yeah, that was us, what look what we
did this? Yeah. Of course there was kind of a
failure on their parts, so I don't know. They may
have killed a bunch of people. Yeah, so cool they did.
There was an act of terrorism we did but we

(52:39):
killed but we killed a bunch. So and the only
the only thing with the only terrorist group that I've
heard so far that's come out and said yeah, we
did this with this group that's like kind of near
the China Russia order. So yeah, the weaker and everybody
pretty much has been like, okay, weakers, that's cute. You

(53:00):
think you could do this, but I don't know, like
maybe they could have, maybe they actually did do this. Like,
I don't know how seriously people are taking this. I
I just think that it is the American propensity and
I guess probably the world propensity at this point to
say that Taliman probably did it. Taliban they're great scapecoat

(53:24):
and there they tend to be pretty piste off at
a lot of people, especially I wouldn't call them escapegoad say,
but I guess it doesn't necessarily make sense that they
would do this to like a Malaysian airline, right, Like,
if they were going to do it, it seems like
it would be a less Muslim, more western country, you know,
I mean I kinda are you talking about al Qaida

(53:45):
or the Weakers? Okay, yeah, but they've never hesitated to
kill other Muslims. I mean, And besides, the plane was
almost entirely filled with Chinese people. Yeah that's fair. So yeah,
I mean maybe, but it just seemed is like al
Qaeda and the Taliban like to take credit for their stuff. Yeah.

(54:07):
I think one of those groups did it. We know,
because they are we said they are going to claim responsibility. Yeah,
and unless unless, of course, the next thing. But when
we get to that in a separate back to the
back to the week or so, I just want to
I do want to say that the part of the
west part of western China that they inhabit is kind
of like really on the flight path of that plane,

(54:29):
so that that does lend a little bit of credibility
to it. Yeah, which is interesting again, right because everybody's
been saying, okay, cute, all right, you guys like just
go keep saying you're doing it. I don't know, and again,
you know, I don't know how much actual investigation, credence,
anything has happened with that, but you know, I'm sure
apparently did like day one say yeah we did that.

(54:51):
So yeah, I'm thinking that and maybe they did. I
don't know how easy it is to hide a plane
that side. I don't imagine a lot of satellite photos
would be screw particularly hard. Right now. China is pretty
good at stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, uh stuff,
and they are that's actually their national motto, yeah smaller alright.

(55:19):
So anyway, I know the next theory, uh, this was
put forth by well not just him, but by the
Malaysian Prime minister said that it possibly could have been
taken for a quote unquote later use. Didn't you say
that before? They like admitted a lot of stuff though, um,
what I feel like it was pretty early. He was

(55:39):
like it might have been taken for a later use.
And then he was like, oh and actually we tracked
it for way longer than we said. No, No, it
was happy to getting a lot of bad press. Yeah,
they happen kind of doing a really bad job. Yeah,
their communications have not been good. Yeah, no, I mean
it was he came he said, this came out of
the press conference. That was after they tracked it, and

(56:01):
it's and they tracked all of it's like you know,
gyrations turning around, coming back across some lay peninsula and
then being tracked by radar up north and then and
then they would established by the pinging of the satellite
from the ACR system that it was either you know,
headed off towards Kazakh Standard or towards the GARCIA. So
that was about. That was about when he said that

(56:23):
that it might have been taken for later use. And
you know, and so the question is is what is
that later use? Well? Yeah, well what is it? Well?
Delivering a new delivering a bunch of dirty bombs. I've
taken the liberty of compiling this list of targets here.
Oh yeah, I know. Why is Joe always trying to

(56:44):
get us on every watchless pass right now? He's always Oh,
I've got this awesome list. Look at this thing I compiled.
It's totally top secret. I mean no, it's not. I
mean it's top it's not. Look at all these places
that I would totally take all this stuff if I
get my good Yeah. Now, So anyway, so it's a
possibility that they maybe it is wanted for use as

(57:05):
a delivery device, you know, say a nuke or some
dirty bombs or whatever. And I'm just gonna go on
the record right now, I don't buy this. I agree
with it because we've already talked about how hard it's
gonna be for somebody to have landed this plane somewhere undetected.
I'm gonna go step further, not only that, but then

(57:26):
to get it back off the ground and to its
potential destination undetected. I guess potentially you could pretend to
be another flight who's in distress, and there could be
some weird confusion and it would allow you to get
close enough. But I just I don't feel like right
now at this point, if a flight went up and
they were like, hey, that's an unidentified seven seven seven

(57:47):
and and the transponder right, like the thing that sends
pings unless they strip that thing off that you're talking about,
the A cars, the cars, the cars could potentially be
completely shut down though, right, but it would have to
be right, You would have to be completely sure then
at that point, like you've got a seven seven seven
that has literally no A cars and it's totally unidentified

(58:10):
being picked up on radar, right, and you go, oh no,
we're in distress. People are gonna be like, uh no,
clearly you have a Malaysia flight you They're going to
send their little scramble some jets out to you and
probably down I frankly am in favor of shooting down
all seven seven seven. But the uh, the the thing
about it is, it's like supposing you use that same

(58:32):
radar shadowing technique that we talked about previously. All right,
so let's say you want to like, you know, hit
a major city or whatever, you know, so you so
you do the whole sneak in Obviously you don't want
to do it at night. It's gonna have to be
a nighttime thing, sneaking right behind another another jet liner.
And so the question is is you know where do

(58:53):
you sneak into? So here's some possibilities. Um, you recognize
this New York. Yeah, that's one possibility. Next one Los Angeles.
That seems like a far away place to go. No,
not necessarily. Um you remember this as the extended range.
You know they could and if they went northwest it

(59:14):
would be really easy. Rate Yeah, they've got like and
and don't forget the the payload on this thing is huge.
So I mean, if you if you're planing, is carrying
just you know, pilot co pilots, some a fugie hottie
boys to have to handle the nuke and stuff like that,
and that's it. Plus the nuke you know that's pretty
lightly loaded. It can go, it'll it'll go further, so
you can go a good long ways. So the Hollywood

(59:36):
scenari under this, under this one, m I've got the
thing being used as basically an improvised bomber. So here's
a seating chart and layout of the seven seventies seven.
Here these are the emergency exits here, and you notice
that for them are behind the wings, so you no
need to worry about killing your engines by having a
dirty bomb slamming your jetty engine at high speed. So yeah,

(59:57):
there we go. So you you would have to decompress
or depressurized little cabin in order to do this, which
means everybody who had to wear a breathing apparatus. But
supposing you wanted to inflict maximum damage on the Infidel
Poe as you possibly could, So here's here's a picture
of it. You can see you can see an outside
view of this this after escape tour, and it's it's nice.

(01:00:18):
It's got a nice little threshold, which which means that
after you pop that thing upen and start chunking out
dirty bombs, you're like, there's no chance they're going to
hear your tail. He's really seriously trying to get us
on the watch lest Yeah, man, I just want to like,
I just want to like disclaimer, Joe only, Joe only.

(01:00:39):
I'm not I'm not saying that. I'm not saying I
want this to happen. I'm saying it's something we should
be thinking about. All right, So what's your next your
next target. Okay, after Hollywood. That's why, that's why I'm
picturing in picturing in southern California. It's a target rich environment.
Los Angeles Harbor is the largest port on the West Coast.
I mean it's as it towers above all the other ports.
The other ports are Long Beach right next to it,

(01:01:02):
which is the second largest port on the West Coast.
Then after that Seattle, Tacoma, Portland, and so. But but
Los Angeles and Long Beach together dwarf all three of
the all. Okay, yeah, so it would be a major
blow to our economy to dirty bomb these guys. Next up, Yeah,

(01:01:23):
Disney World for Disneyland, not after spend dirty dirty Bob
is green now from the radiation. Yeah, and uh, next,
next up, this little guy right here. This is where
this is where you administer the Q de gra. I
mean you're going all the way down the southern California

(01:01:44):
coast talk chucking out dirty bombs all along the way.
So you're you're looking at this is one extended flight
where they are just dropping bomb after bob. It's truly
a bomber. Yeah, it's not a crash and throw off
one and explode one. And I just say this is
this is a possibility, is that you know, a play
in the size and carry a pretty pretty big bayload payload,
they could actually come in and you know, I mean

(01:02:06):
and and more likely, if they do something like this,
it's just going to be a single nuke and that's it.
But I'm saying that if they wanted to do something
really really really hamous, I mean, they could be giving
some bad people some good ideas. The nice thing is
to actually statistics proved that bad people don't listen to
our podcast. Our market research has been completed. Absolutely. Yeah.

(01:02:29):
So anyway, so here it is. This is a naval
base at San Diego, homeport of the Pacific Fleets. You
would take out a lot of incredibly valuable naval assets
if you touched off a nuke over this thing. Or
you could dirty bomb this and then proceed south not
too far to Tijuana and then nuke Tijuana just to
ruin life for everyone. Yeah, but just just to prove Yeah,

(01:02:53):
I know, seriously, wasn't that ruin everything? Not only did
you like take out all our West Coast sports, but
also to want no Diszealand and wants gone out alive?
Uh and just just I don't want to see them
too ethnocentric here. I mean, there's other possibilities Dubai for one, Yeah,

(01:03:14):
the Yeah, I mean number one, you've got this big
hawk and tower, uh the College Dubai, I think it's called.
And I've read reports that al Qaeda assuming to get
back to the Alcaida thing, necessarily Alchaida, but if it
is al Kaida and they've got this thing, they might
want to actually do something to the Emirateds because I've
I've been understanding that they've been kind of turning their

(01:03:35):
attention to the United that they're not so happy with
what they're doing there. Yeah, well there's a lot of
I mean, just look at this. Is that not decadent? Yeah?
Is that is? Yeah? Yeah? A giant shining tower of Babel.
Yeah is what that is? It actually literally looks a
bit like the tower. It does. Yeah. So the so

(01:03:56):
that these are, there's there's just some some various possibility
if it was oh yeah, I mean there's just tons
of tons of good places to bomb. If you're like,
you know, a suicide bomber kind of guy, and you
just happened to have a nuke that the Pakistani's gave
you maybe Russia, I mean at that point, who knows. Yeah,

(01:04:16):
well so anyway, Um, but there are there other possibilities
out there too. I read an article by a pilot
named Bill Palmer, and he was talking about how the
behavior of the plane, all the course changes and and
everything else. House A few changes were actually consistent with
the plane flying without an operator, so the crew was incapacitated,
but flying without an operator and not on autopilot. But

(01:04:39):
even even without autopilot, the seven seventy seven will fly itself.
But without an autopilot or an operator or a flight
plan to tell it where to go, it's just going
to sort of fire and anously. The course changes can
happen because of turbulence. One week will get lifted up
a little higher, and the will cause it to turn
things like that, and so it's according to this guy,
it's con instant with basically a rudderless plane. It'll just

(01:05:03):
keep going until it runs out of fuel and crashes.
I don't like that as good as my my later
use theory. I think later uses a lot of sex here. Yeah,
I don't think that's the term that I would use
for that here. Well, Okay, So I think I asked
you this earlier, Joe, and and this is this is

(01:05:26):
me from Leyman's term or Leyman's perspective of it. And
I don't understand exactly how these giant planes work. I don't.
The mechanics is but beyond me. And I admit this fully.
But what I was wondering about is that I've I've
seen all these things where people are thinking the plane
has been ditched in the oceans on that whether for

(01:05:46):
whatever reason it went down in the ocean. If I'm
looking at it from the perspective of somebody intentionally ditched it,
and they ditched it in the ocean and then do
whatever to salvage it, whatever it is. I know that
again this is the Hollywood trope. Whenever the plane comes
down on the water, it smack smack, crash, tumble, tumble boom,

(01:06:06):
like things don't go well. But knowing how big and
stable this plane is, I was thinking about it the
other day and I was wondering, like, wouldn't it be
possible if you know that you're gonna have to go
down to come down to a low altitude and really
slow the speed down, and you guys have made paper

(01:06:28):
airplanes before, right? Have you ever you ever thrown an
airplane and it does the loopy loop and then it
comes out of that and it comes through the bottom
of its arc, and it goes up just a little bit,
noses up, and then it just sets down on the
ground and just kind of I'm not Alane, well, you
know it's it's it's a talent. I can't help it.

(01:06:48):
But the point is, is it possible with a plane
like that to have to slow it down enough and
to get it to kind of nose up and then
lose the inertia and stall out and just drop you know,
let's say fifty feet or twenty feet or whatever it is,
just boom, just drop it flat into the wall rather

(01:07:09):
than trying to skid it across the wall. I feel
like that would break the wings off. I don't know that.
That's why I'm asking, because I wonder about that. Yeah, yeah,
I think that The thing about that is is like
your paper airplane is is moving at a fairly slow speed,
and then it goes up and its stalls and it
comes down. But the problem is is that for about

(01:07:31):
seven seven, seven seventy seven stall speed is is I don't.
I'm not I don't know exactly what stall speed is,
but it's gonna be it's not going to come to
a stop before its stalls. It's gonna stall out it
like a hundred miles an hour, because that's yeah, that's
the point where air is not flowing over the wings
enough to keep it lifted. Its stalls, and then it
drops and yeah, and then it hurts real bad. And

(01:07:52):
so let's let's let's say, for example, I mean, let's say,
for example that stall speed is only fifty miles an hour,
which I'm sure it's got to be more than that,
just hypothetical. Yeah, yeah, say it's fifty Okay, So yeah,
so it's still clipping right along EGO up you come down.
And then because you're in the open ocean, and almost
certainly unless it's totally be calm, there's gonna be waves

(01:08:13):
out there, and you've got two big engines hanging down
below there, below your wings, and unless you see anchors, yeah,
unless you hit two waves at precisely the same time,
what you're not gonna do. You know, What's what's gonna
happen is one engine is gonna catch first, and then
you're gonna just cartwheel or spin around or whatever. It was.
It was just something. But that, you know, that means

(01:08:36):
there was a case that that flight in New York
a couple of years ago, that pilot was able to
ditch it in like Long Island Sound. But yeah, that
was a really small plane. I forget what kind of
airliner it was. It was, it was a private jet, basically,
what do you think, Hue, I thought that, No, that
wasn't that was like it was. It wasn't a huge thing.
It was a relatively small, like you two seats on

(01:09:01):
each side of the aisle kind of. It wasn't a
huge It wasn't a seven seven seven. Yeah. And also
it was landing in in very calm waters where there
weren't big ways to catch your engines on stuff like that.
So it's pretty favorable circumstances. But on the open ocean
that seems unlikely you're gonna be able to ditch it
without catastrophic results. And so here's my big thing with
the whole crash of the ocean it burned up in

(01:09:24):
a fiery ball, is that there have been report and
not you know, I don't know how valid they are,
but there have been a lot of reports of people
who have family and friends that are on this airliner
are trying to call their cell phones and their phones ringing. Yeah.
I have the answer to that, what's your answering? Okay?

(01:09:45):
The problem with that is have you ever called internationally? Yeah? Okay?
And have you ever noticed that you make an international
call and sometimes it rings forever before they pick up
or the answering machine picks up. Yeah. The way I
understand that operating is that the service provider is trying

(01:10:08):
to reach the phone and it starts giving you the
ringing noise. Doesn't mean it's actually connected. It's just it's
giving you the noise because it's saying I'm trying, I'm trying,
I'm trying, and then maybe you hear a click and
then it actually will be the real ringer. But it's trying,

(01:10:29):
and it's throwing that ring noise basically response to an illusion,
basically convincing you you know that something is happening, you know,
and something is happening. They're trying to find the phone.
But I have family overseas, and I have I have
called them before. And let's say that it normally takes
four rings for their answering machine to pick up, and

(01:10:52):
it's five rings, six rings, and then the answering machine
to pick up. It's because the servers happen't quite connect. Yeah,
but they're still throwing the noise to me to let
me know it's it's it's working, So that's the problem.
That's fair. But I mean I have heard the people saying,
we keep trying to call my brother, my mom, and

(01:11:13):
my unter whoever he is, and it's ringing, So there
must be their phone must be on. But I don't
I don't buy into it knowing how those systems work.
Supposing they crashed on land, though, and supposing at least
one cell phone survived, would you be able to track
them down using that? Probably? Yeah, quite likely. If there's

(01:11:33):
a cell tower. There's a cell tower. Yeah, you know,
all a lot of people had like those phones that
are supposed to superwaterproof. Maybe that was it, Yeah, superwaterproof
plus they float. Yeah, there has to be a cell tower,
like fift away, there's some macro. I don't think that's happening. Yeah,

(01:11:56):
so I am trying to think. I kind of run
out of there. Well, Aliens Alien is huge on the inn.
They were stolen by the Chinese or the Malaysian Bermuda Triangle. Yeah. No,
it looks like the three minute triangle just got extended
a big long way. Yeah. Yeah, it's now a tetrahedron.

(01:12:18):
It's the Malaca Street. Yeah, that's true. That's because there's
that too. There's that other mystery that we solved, the
ship that thing. Yeah, that's one thing. The thing. Yeah,
I just yeah, I mean, other than aliens obviously being
responsible for it, I don't know. I don't mean, I

(01:12:44):
like the idea that it was landed somewhere remote and
they haven't been able to get ahold of anybody, and
they're all, okay, that's two nine souls, and that is Yeah,
there's a lot of people lost. But I really, I
unfortunately lean more towards the catastrophic fire I have. I

(01:13:09):
just I think that that is a viable solution. With
all of the flaws of theories that we've seen out there,
it's the only one that strikes possibly true to me.
And then unfortunately it just didn't make it a doubt.
So we're saying theories that we think are totally reasonable,
not theories we like the most. Oh no, no, no, no,

(01:13:30):
you know me, I don't go with my favorite theory
because I think it's fun. I always i'm Devil's ad
Which one do I think could really happen? Because my favorite,
my favorite theory is they slipped out of time. Yeah,
that's a good one. I like that. I run out
of time all the time. Yeah, my favorite is that
somebody took it for later use and so. But the
great thing about that one is like they're busy, They're
busy tearing up the ocean and Kazakh standard everywhere else

(01:13:52):
looking for wreckage right now. And you know, so maybe
who knows, I'll find something the next few days, next
few weeks. But as far as somebody taking it for
later years, we're gonna find out about that too. And
it might be that in terms of looking for records,
nothing will ever turn up that that's not unheard up
and don't find it because it's thousands upon thousands upon

(01:14:14):
thousands of miles of square. I think that we'll find
out probably either in the next week or a year
or two from now. So the guys that are sitting
on it right now obviously realized they can't keep this
secret for too long, so they're gonna want to use
it and go new tele aviv or somewhere like that,
or conversally, they might decide to just if they've got

(01:14:35):
it really tucked away in a very secure hang or somewhere,
they might decide just to sit on it for a
year or two or five and then bring it out.
Nobody's going to really remember the transponder number in five years. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so they might sit on it for a while, but
I mean, I'm kind of guessing they won't wait that long,
kind of guessing. These these guys are impatient, you know,

(01:14:55):
you know these you know these guys. Yeah, radicals, they
is the term you're looking for our loons. So are
we gonna have pictures and stuff? Yeah, we're gonna have pictures,
probably on our website, which is thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Yeah,
if you'd like to go out and find us on iTunes,

(01:15:17):
we are on iTunes. We're also on Stitcher if you don't,
if you haven't had time to download it to your
your iPod, then go to Stitcher just exactly. Yeah. Uh,
you know, and of course like us on Facebook, and
you know, if you want to set us an email,
if you have theories or if you're one of the
hijackers that stole us plane. We really want to hear

(01:15:38):
from you for the aliens. We promise if you're a hijacker,
not to leak your email address to anybody important. I
can't promise that. Uh. Oh, I thank you. Yeah. You
can contact us at our email address, which is Thinking
Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. If you have the

(01:15:59):
Malaysian Prime Minister third. Uh, don't stress, we're still thinking
about it. We'll get back to you soon. All right. Well, anyway,
that's it for this week. Uh, this is by the
time you hear this. Who knows, maybe the whole mystery
will have been solved. I'm kind of doubting at the
place we're going. But but but didn't we just solve it?

(01:16:19):
We did well. We thought we saw the three ways basically. Um,
so it may well be that, like in the next week,
we'll know which one of us will right. We'll find
we'll find out. Until then, goodbye everybody, Bye guys. Bye,