Thinking Sideways: The Mad Axeman of New Orleans

For 18 months in the years 1918-19, a serial killer terrorized the citizens of New Orleans, his favored method of murder earning him a grisly nickname: "The Axeman". The murders have never been solved.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hi there, Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. Yes,
that's right, where the guys that tackle lotles unsolved mysteries
and sell them for you. This week, well, well we
introduced my co host first. I'm Joe, starring along with
Devin and Steve. All right, so let's getting Yeah, we're starring.

(00:39):
Movie credits. I feel fancy. Yeah, where's my where's my groupies?
That's what I really want to know. I wish I
wore my good shoes for this. Now you bought that
like effortless, like celebrity slob vibe. Oh I really kind
of do. Yeah, you're lucky. I shaved today. I know
it's been a week. Been about a week for me too. Actually, okay,

(01:02):
let's just let's get into this thing. So this week,
in honor again of the month of October and Halloween,
we're talking we're talking about serious, creepy, grizzly, gory stuff. Yeah.
So yeah, so we're gonna give you another one of
those two this week. It's we're gonna talk about the
ax Men of New Orleans, or if you actually live

(01:23):
in New Orleans, you want to probably call us the
Acment of Nolin's. But this is about By the way,
this was a listener suggestion, and I unfortunately can't off
the top of my head. Remember I apologize, but if
I remember your name, I will. I will. Maybe next week,
everybody have to speed on that we're gonna added to
your listeners segments. Do thank you for the for the suggestion.

(01:44):
Now this is a fun, grizzly, disgusting kind of thing.
Oh yeah, what is fun? Not going that whole string
of words. Yeah, well, I guess it's worth the mention, right,
just like last week, this week, maybe if you have
like kids that you like to listen to this podcast with,
or your squeamish or like you're at work, it's probably
not Let's say, yeah, but it's not that bad. And

(02:05):
at least I know you're only hearing our words, you're
not actually seeing people getting chopped up with an axe.
And by the way, that that that is what the
X Men was all about. He was an axe murderer,
all right. So the X Man was a serial killer
in New Orleans. And also he actually murdered a few
people outside as a suburb of New Orleans called Gretin
that which is right across the river. And then he

(02:26):
operated between May nineteen eighteen and October nineteen nineteen, so
just like a year, year and a half, basically year
and a half before. And Uh apparently a police detective
at the time these were going on and tried to
connect them to some murders that took place earlier on
about nineteen eleven nineteen twelve. It's generally believed that they

(02:48):
were not connected. Yeah, the the m O wasn't exactly
to see, Yeah, not exactly. And actually, of all the
all the killings and attacks that that were attributed to
the axe man, I'm not sure all of these that
people count towards the axe men, I'm not sure all
of these were actually the same guy. I don't think
that anyway. They were usually attacked with an axe, sometimes
a straight razor. One account of the last murder, which

(03:11):
is Mike Peppertoni he was killed in October nineteen nineteen,
UH says that he was not beating to death with
an axe, but he was beating to death with a pipe,
often to let the weapon was laying around. They would
have obviously a lot of people heated their homes with
with wood in those days, and so people would have
a hatchets and axes, and laying around, so he would
break into the house, grab an axe, and go to town.

(03:33):
Many of them were also Italian shopkeepers, which led some
people to suspect the mafia connection, and that is plausible.
Actually let other people to suspect that maybe the X
Men just didn't like Italians. As an Italian person, I
feel like, especially in those days, not everybody likes Pepperoni pizzas.
They're crazy, but not everybody. Yeah. Uh. He generally entered

(03:59):
the homes by something out of panel, like you know,
you know what a frame and panel door looks like
when you've got multiple panels, And he would take a chisel,
chisel out of panel. And I'm not sure how he
managed to do this stealthily. You would think that would
wake people up inside. Let me let me just clarify,
because this was something that it wasn't exactly positive that
I got, but I thought I did. So. When you

(04:19):
say a panel, so let's say I buy a new
door at home depot and they call it a six
panel door, which means there's the big thick wood frame
and then there's six thin panels in set into the door.
So let's say the doors like an inch and a
half and they dropped to a half inch depth. And

(04:39):
there's those panels that make kind of that pattern that's
the panel, right. Yeah, I have some pictures here are
some of the doors that were actually chiseled open, so
you can get an idea. I'll hold it up from
the microphone at a moment. Okay, yeah, no, that that's
exactly what I was talking about. It is one of
those because old doors. Doors now aren't made of actual wood.

(05:02):
They're formed out of sawdust presswood basically. But old doors,
even today you can get a wood door. Yeah, but
old doors, it was a solid frame on the exterior
and then it was pieces inset and then inside of
that were smaller, thinner wooden panels. And those smaller thinner
wooden panels would have had the framing around him kind

(05:26):
of like you see an older windows. So you'll see
the beveled edges that actually hold the yet molding. And
so what you're saying is that he was chiseling that
molding away to them be able to pull that piece
of wood out to reach into the doors. That correct. Yeah,
and uh, that's what I would suspect is that he

(05:47):
got the once you had an opening, can reach inside
and unlocked the door from the inside. Okay, some people
some people, well actually theorizes that the accident was a
midget or a dwarf, because I thought, how could it,
How could a full size, a full sized person fit
to that that small hole? And you guys saw how
small those holes were, don't know, like six or twelve

(06:07):
inches at the best. Yeah, I don't think a person.
I don't think a dwarf is gonna fit you. He
reads through, you know, but so that that's kind of
a silly idea of it. He often he would he
would pull the panel out, leave it there, leave it there,
sitting there with the chisel, Which makes me wonder why
didn't the cops check out the records, See you charge
a dozen chisels to his MasterCard? Or you know, I

(06:30):
got all the home depots and ask if somebody had
like bought a dozen a dozen or so chisels. Maybe
he was working at home depot. No wait wait, or
maybe home depot wasn't there they are yet maybe so anyway,
before I start talking about the murders of the X

(06:50):
man sent a very famous letter which I am not
going to read. I might read. I'm ready to snippet
of it, but he said it's a very famous letter
to a local paper saying that he was going to
swing by the city at twelve DNA and that's just
after midnight on March nineteenth, and said that he was
going to kill somebody, that he would spare the lives
of anybody who was playing jett and playing jazz music
in their homes. Uh. And apparently there was a lot

(07:12):
of jazz played that night. But that leads me to
suspect that maybe the letter wasn't written by the x Man,
but it was written by maybe a frustrated jazz musician
and who wanted to gen up a little business for himself.
If it was written by the Axe Man, and I've
read that letter, the Axe Man is a loon, seriously
off their rocker. Things that are said in that letter,

(07:36):
something alluding to I am, you know, basically the spirit
of death and I'm ephemeral and YadA YadA, YadA. Is like, whoa, yeah,
because that's unusual for somebody who goes around hacking people.
I was about to say, you were very high on
what you're doing and what you're getting out of and
it's it's that just tells me right there that the

(07:56):
person that was doing this, if it is one person.
Uh huh wow, well yeah, i'd have off your rocket.
Want I'll go to slaughter people with an X anyway? Yeah, anyway,
So the if you want to do a Google on that,
there's a Wikipedia page and also practically everywhere the page
that talks about this, just about every letter I will
I will congratulate the X man on good writing. I

(08:18):
thought it was a very well written letter. It is.
I like it. Actually, it's well written. Yeah, it's kind
of kind of you should read it. It does it.
I'm just gonna go ahead and throughout there. It starts
out it steems mortal. Comes Tom says hell Comma March thirteenth,
Comma nineteen seemed mortal. They've never caught me and they

(08:41):
never will. I'm not going any further. No, I just
like want to give people a little snippet of like,
I mean, you know, do we need to read this,
Do you want to read part of it? Let me
read one well, or you want to do it hour
you want to do it in context of the time
when the letter came in, Because it comes in a
majority A good number of the slayings have happened, actually does. Yeah,
that's a good point. Uh. So we'll talk about the

(09:02):
letter a little later. So let's talk about the departed.
So the first victims were Joseph and Catherine Mojo. I
think it's Mojo, sounds about right. Yeah. He was an
Italian grocer and like like many people back in those days,
they had an apartment in the back or above their
store or their bar or whatever they had. Uh so
may en um, he broke into their home and then

(09:26):
he cut their throats with a straight razor. Straight razor
apparently belonged to Joseph Mago's brother, Like it was in
the house and he just used it or um. It's
hard to sing exactly how he got his hands on it,
but essentially he's he got there. He cut their throats
and then took an ax to him and bashed them too,
And he cut Catherine's neck so deeply that he nearly

(09:46):
decapitated her. Yeah, so Joseph actually very stable. Yeah, Joseph
Mojo actually survived for a few hours. He was bleeding,
uh severely, almost worse. Yeah, and his brother, I know, seriously,
I want to quick So his his brother lived in
the apartment next door, and apparently at some point during
the night he woke up and heard these strange moans

(10:07):
coming from the other side of the wall. He started
knocking on the wall and got no response, so he
went around and got and came into their home and
found them. And of course, obviously it couldn't have been fun. No, no,
and I don't think so. In the apartment they found
a bloody set of clothes because so apparently the murderer
had brought a clean set of clothes to change into
when he was done. And the straight razor was found

(10:32):
on the lot of a property very nearby. I don't
know if it was right next door or a few
and if we were lots away, but that was found
to Dare see you later. And it turns out as
again the straight razor belonged to the brother who ran
a barbershop, and apparently he had at the barbershop and
he had told a co worker that he was taking
it home or taking it out to get fixed, because

(10:52):
it had a notch in the blade and notching the edge.
Uh So anyway, he naturally he became he became a
big sus Yeah. Uh. He he was released because they
really couldn't they really couldn't get any have any evidence
on him, and he didn't have any real obvious motive.
Ye first murder, just like they used the straight blade

(11:15):
of the brother. The brother found them. He lived right
next door. That is a little suspicious. He didn't hear
like screaming or anything, but he did hear knocking a
little bit later. Yeah, just and the most disturbing part
of hearing knocking later is somebody flailing. I mean, this

(11:38):
is this again. I know I made this joke last week,
but it's like it makes me think of Sweeney Todd
again with Yeah, but I can just think of that
that weird you know, I'm desperate for help and this
is just one of those weird places my brain. But
you're there, You're helpless. You know that you're not in
a good place, and you're trying to get somebody's attention.

(12:00):
The only thing you can do is bang on the
wall because you can't make noise because you've had your
throat slit. What a powerless feeling. Yeah, I guess that.
You know again, it's like, okay, well, even if it
was like moaning or just like knocking, like that woke
his brother up, But like surely someone screamed, like not

(12:20):
necessarily mean. Think about it is is if the guy
was quick enough and stealthy enough, you could slit there,
throw us before they could wake up and start screaming slits.
You really can't scream. That's definitely true. All right, Well,
I was gonna ye, I was gonna say, is let's
think about this, and I don't want to go into
too much detail, but I'm just trying to think of
how could you kill one person without the other knowing
when they're sleeping side by side. Ll the wife first, Well,

(12:44):
but there's two ways that you can think about it.
Is he was on her side of the bed and
he cut her throat and then moved across and went
to the husband's side. Or what's even more disturbing is
remember that most people, I presume most couples these days
sleep in something that equates to at least to queen
size bed. In that day and age, a queen's size

(13:07):
bed was a luxury. So you're more in something that's
along the lines of the single So if you're both
on your backs or on your sides, person can lean
over and get one and then the other, and that
that would explain why one was like pretty well done
and the other was less swell, Right, the farther one,
he's got to put a little more effort to get to.

(13:29):
I mean. So the brother was deemed not a suspect. Yeah,
well he was still deemed a suspect, but they had
no they really had nothing on. So the next murder
was a guy named Louis or Louis Sumer okay, Louis
Bessumer and his mistress Harriet Low. Harriet actually survived this one,

(13:53):
so he was he was struck with a hatchet in
the head. And this has been a June of yeah
at June, I so a little more than a month
since the previous one. Again, you know the ax murder.
He used an ax, but he didn't necessarily chop people
to pieces with the axt. He just beat him to
death because an access and access are just a kick
ass hammer, let's face it, very very big hammer. Oh yeah,

(14:17):
so yeah, he got a he got he got a
skull fracture from that, and his mistress, Harriet Low, was
also hacked and she was unconscious, and uh, they were
discovered by the driver of a bakery wagon named John Zenca.
He found them in a puddle of blood and they're
both bleeding. And the axe, which again belonged to the sumer,

(14:37):
was found in the found in the bathroom of the apartment. Well.
And and if I remember right, the only reason the
delivery guy found him is it was a grocery correct. Yeah,
so he was, Yes, he was a delivery guy. And
he showed up at whatever his normal time is. Yeah,
you know, Lewis or Lewis is supposed to be there
and he's always there, and he's not. This is weird.

(15:00):
So he went over to the residents or up to
the residents or around the residents, whichever the case may be.
And that's how he walked in on this thing. Yeah. Yeah,
they didn't arrest him for it though, So but they
found they found a guy named Louis ubi Kan who
was forty one year old, black guy. So that's probably
why they arrested him. Black guy. Especially unfortunately, the practice

(15:24):
that apparently this guy had had worked in the store,
and so I'm not really clear if he had worked
in the store, have been fired or if he'd just
been hired, But apparently that was that was enough for
the police. But they had no evidence, so they finally
had to let him out. He did offer some conflicting
accounts of his whereabouts on the on the day of
the attack, but despite that, they really didn't have anything
on him, so they had to let him go. And

(15:45):
then the sumer himself was it was actually given a
fair amount of scrutiny, and the police decided that they
they've seen a bunch of letters. They found a bunch
of letters in German, Russian and kidd Ash in his
house and they decided that he was potentially possibly a
German spy, so they undertook a full investigation of that,

(16:07):
and Harriet Low finally told police that she thought he
was a German spy. Eventually he was released and because
he survived to theyd well no no, no, no, no, no, yeah,
Lewis died, the sumer died right, but Low survived Louie
Louie died, but his his mistress Harriet survived correct well.

(16:33):
They said. Eventually, what happened with Harriet Low is that
from that the blow that blows to her head from
the hatchet damaged the nerves and she wanted up basically
paralyzed on one side of her face, and so she
underwent surgery to try to fix that, and she died
in surgery. But she was she was kind of an
unreliable witnessed the whole thing because she kept putting out

(16:54):
really weird statements and and I'm quoting her saying something
along the lines of, oh no, it was a mulatto man.
It was a big tall man, and like, things just
gone all muddled. But I'm sorry, if you've been struck
in the head with an AX, you might not have
the best recall. Yeah. So, yeah, so I don't know

(17:14):
it's say. But again, they kept arresting people and they
could never they could never pin it on anybody. But anyway,
after she died again that a lot of attention had
turned to the Sumer and so the police arrested him
and charged him with murder since she died for reasons
relating to the attack. And he actually went to prison it.
But but eventually when the trial came around, uh, he

(17:36):
was acquitted after a ten minute jury deliberation. Solid evidence,
solid evidence. Yeah, Jerry didn't want to waste any more
time on this. Oh yeah, And and she did say
Harriet Low did say that she believed that it was
Louis Assumer who had attacked her, but I don't know,
she doesn't sound the most like the most reliable person. Okay,
so next s up. The next attack did not result

(17:58):
in death. Somebody named missus Schneider and I don't know
why nobody seems to know what her first name is. Yeah,
August five, so it's a couple of months have gone by,
and she was pregnant, twenty eight years old, found a
dark figure standing over her and was bashed in the
face repeatedly, and the several cuts, lacerations, etcetera. And uh,

(18:20):
she was found by her husband when he came home
about midnight. She said she didn't really remember much about
the attack. Apparently she remembered, you know, dark figure looming
over her. The husband said that nothing was stolen and
the windows and doors did not appeared to have been
forced open, so they fled. They figured that the police
figured that the weapon was a lamp that was nearby,

(18:41):
so the guy just gave in, picked up a bashed
her in the head without a bunch, but she didn't die.
And this one, I kind of wonder if this one
is not even related to the X Man, because you know,
it's not really not really his am and you know
what this is. This is my m O in every
one of these stories like this, is that when you

(19:02):
get into the middle of the one of these stories,
is that this guy's m O changes. Now the reason
I have to stick to the same EMMO every but
when we're when we're looking at these kind of stories
where it's a presumed serial killer, things are usually consistent.
The shot with a forty four, they're attacked with a machete,

(19:25):
something like that. But in each one of these cases,
the only thing that seems to be consistent is that
it's a weapon that's found in their home, which is
just a weird. It's a weapon found in their home
used to attack their head, Yeah, which is just strange.
It doesn't fit what we see normal normal's the wrong word,

(19:48):
but typical behavior in needs. So it's just it's odd.
And we have also talked a little bit about the
phenomena of like piggybacking and there's a serial killer when
there's like a couple and then somebody's like, oh, you know,
I have been meaning to attack that person, to murder somebody,
and that would be a great time a time I'll
just like copy the m O of the serial killer.

(20:09):
It'll get attributed to the serial killer, and no one
will be the wiser. That's why I'm really getting kind
of impatient for a serial killer right here, because I've
got a couple of people I need to offer. We're
not doing the show anymore. Wow, that got Can we
go to the next one? Now? You've made this super awkward?
Or did we actually have we left details behind about
Mrs Schneider. Well, let's see, but she had the baby

(20:32):
and everything was fine there we know that. Did we
say she was pregnant? Yeah, yeah, we had to say
she was pregnant. But yeah, okay, so another another details
that naturally the police went out and found an ex
convict named James Gleeson. Uh, and they arrested him, and
of course they released him because there was no evidence,
and that seems to be a recurring theme in this case.

(20:54):
And uh, the investigators began to speculate that the attack
was related to the previous attacks, but I don't think.
I don't think that this necessarily was. It might have been, Yeah,
this one seems like a weak link, yeah, a little bit. So.
Our next victim was a man named Joseph Romano. He
was living with his two nieces August tenth, So this

(21:15):
one came pretty quick on the heels of last one. Yeah,
they found a sound of commotion. They probably marry his nieces.
Awoke to the sound of a commotion, uh, and came
into the room. They discovered that he had taken a
serious bloat of the head and had two big open cuts,
and the assailant was fleeting the scene, but they were
able to see that he was a dark skinned, heavy
set man who wore a dark suit and a slouched hat.

(21:37):
So it sounds like maybe orson Wells. Yeah, uh, he was.
He was actually injured, but he was able to watch
the ambulance, so he wasn't dead yet, but he died
two days later because of the head traumas well. Maybe
they shouldn't have let him walk to the ambulance. Yeah, oh,
you got these huge cuts, you're feeling good? Okay, cool? Well,
why don't you just like get up and walk yourself

(21:59):
to the ambulance. It's not like it was paramedics of
today with the folding stretcher. It was a cot on
sticks and he was was this do we know, Joe,
was this a ground floor apartment or that I don't know.
That's a good question. I'm assuming it was, but I
would presume too. But yeah, they did. They found a

(22:20):
bloody axe in the backyard, and they discovered that a
panel in the back door had been chise a little
just away. So that's, you know, that's pretty consistent with
the axe man, and that this one, I mean, this
was the third attack like this, the fourth if you
count Mr Schneider. So naturally, this touched off a lot
of mayhem in the city, and people got all kinds
of upset and then worried, and probably, you know, probably

(22:43):
started buying guns that they didn't already have them New Orleans,
so I imagine just about everybody had it come you
wouldn't think something. But if you're asleep, it's hard to
defend yourself with a gun, yeah, especially when you wake
up to getting bashed in the head with an axe. Yeah.
And this is when that the tie in began to
the murders in nineteen eleven. In nineteen twelve, retired detective
named John D'Antonio speculated that they might be related to

(23:06):
the same thing because of similarities in the attacks. Um
and then he wanted he would speculate even further. I
think this is just kind of silliness here. But he
described he basically tried to profile the killer as an
individual with dual personalities who killed without motive and basically
just had two personalities when he slipped into his killer mode,

(23:26):
you know, his other personality maybe even wasn't aware of it.
And there's no reason, there's no sport any of that.
That sounds like sensationalization right there. To me. Yeah, but
I'm not trying to detract from this, and I know
that sometimes we fall into that, but this just sounds
like I'm making a statement to the news to generate

(23:47):
awareness and I'm not buying that. Yeah, So I almost
wonder if it was like a ploy to like convince
the murderer to come forward, because if you heard that, yeah,
like if you had heard but like, oh, yeah, we
think it's this person, and like we don't really blame
him because like we think it's just like dual personnelity
can't control it. He doesn't even know he's doing it.

(24:08):
And you're like, oh, well, I have been killing people,
should them? I can't control sir. It could be that,
you know, that might actually be a worthwhile tactic in
a situation like this, too, make statements that you know
aren't true, and on the because you know the killer
is almost certainly reading the papers, and he might be
attempted to try to contact you. It's at the record

(24:29):
straight and uh, you know he's not gonna necessarily turn
himself in, but even writing a letter might provide a
clue or too. Anyway, let's move on here. I don't
want to spend too much more time with the victims.
The next ones were and I apologize if you're Italian
and this is your last name, and I mispronounced Charles
Court to Miglia, Miglia Court to Biglia, and Rosie and
Mary Court to Meiglia. So a guy, his wife, Rosie,

(24:50):
and their daughter Mary. He lived in Gretna, which is
just across the river from New Orleans, so it's really
really pretty much part of New Orleans. March tenth nine.
Noticed a big gap there too, between August tenth and
March tenth. There's quite a few months. Yeah, I'm not sure.
I know, he might have been off murdering people elsewhere,

(25:10):
or he could have been maybe in jail. Maybe the
little stint in jail hard to say. So. Screams were
heard coming from their house. A guy named Orlando Giorgiano, yeah,
one across the street just to to investigate the screams.
When he got in there, he knows that Charles and
his wife Rosie and there a daughter Mary had all
been attacked. Rosie was alive with the hair with the

(25:32):
head wound, but her daughter was dead and Charles was
laying on the floor bleeding. They were rushed to the
hospital and they both had skull fractures, and as in
previous incidents, nothing was stolen from the house. A panel
on the back door had been chiseled away and a
bloody access found in the back porch at the home.
Charles was released in a couple of days and he survived,

(25:53):
and then Rosie stayed in men under medical care because
she was more seriously injured. When she walked up, she
claimed that the guy that rush to the scene, Orlando Jordando,
He and his son were supposedly responsible for the attacks.
Orlando was sixty nine years old and it was thought
that he was too probably too old and frail to

(26:13):
have actually done this, but his son was a lot
younger and was six ft tall and wagh two hundred pounds,
so you know he possibly could have done it, but
Charles Courtmiglia said that his wife's claims were wrong and
so and she had been bashed in the head. Well yeah,
and again the same thing. You've been wailed in the head.
Yeah yeah, I mean, yeah, head traumas can really can

(26:35):
really do a number one. It really screws up your
term memory. Oh yeah. Yeah. Also, you know, given that
she saw him right after the attack, right, you know,
I think that she misunderstood the situation. Yeah, that you
could think, yeah, so you associate the attack and a person,
and your brain is just like that person was there,

(26:56):
so I think it. Yeah. So I don't know what,
if any other evidence was available, but they were arrested,
they were tried, and they were found guilty. Frank the
younger the younger one was sentenced to hang and his
father was sentenced to life in prison. And about a
year later, Rosie retracted her statement her husband divorce her

(27:17):
because he was like, no, that's not true, and then yeah,
and then she kept saying yeah, that's true, and he
was like, you're such a liar. I haven't Yeah. I
I don't know if that was the actual reason for it.
That might have been part of the reason I don't.
I know, he did divorce her. But I also think,
and this is very symptomatic situations like this, is that

(27:37):
their their child who was an infant, has been killed,
and that does not do good things for a relationship,
and it's usually the catalyst for things not continuing to work.
And so it could have been very well. Then it
wasn't his issue with her claims of the guilt of
this man, but just they could wouldn't reconcile what had happened,

(28:02):
and that's also a reason for why they would have split. Yeah,
So anyway, whatever there is, I don't know, and I
don't know what happened to her. He would think that
if she had made false accusations like that, she could
be arrested and jailed herself. But also I mean I
think that, Yeah, there's there's the sympathetic aspect there for

(28:25):
you know, concost mother who lost child. I mean, I
can see why they wouldn't go after her, but I
don't see why they went after these other two gentlemen either. Yeah,
well they had to arrest somebody, No they didn't. So
about about three days after this incident, the accpent sat
down and penned that famous letter, the one from Hell

(28:46):
March stated March thirteenth, A steam mortal. They have never
caught me, and they never will. They have never seen
me before. I am invisible, even as each of the
surrounds your earth. I am not a human being, but
a spirit and a demon from the Hoddest. Tell I
am what you are, Lenians, and your foolis police called
the axe Man. When I see fit, I shall come

(29:07):
and claim O they're victims. I alone know whom they
shall be. I shall lead no clue except my bloody
acts be smeared with blood and brains of he whom
I have sent below to keep me company. Guys, let
me know when you're done to listening to this thing.
We don't have to read that on the entire thing.
How much more we got. That's only the second paragraph. Yeah,

(29:27):
let me skip a little bit here. Um. Undoubtedly your
Lenians think of me as a most horrible murderer, which
I am. But I could be much worse if I
wanted to. If I wish, I could pay a visit
to your city every night at will, I could slay
thousands of your best citizens. For I am in a
close relationship with the angel of death. Alright, we can stop. Yeah,
that's just yeah, not a nutter. Yeah, okay, real quickly though,

(29:52):
I knew he wouldn't see. Yeah, so I'll skip me
a little bit. In my infinite mercery. I'm gonna make
a little proposition to you people here. It is I'm
very fond of jazz music, and I swear by all
the devils in the n ether, by all the devils
in the nether regions, that every person shall be spared
in whose home a jazz band is in full swing
at the time I have just mentioned. If everyone has
a jazz band going well, then so much the better

(30:14):
for you people. One thing is certain, and that is
that some of your people who did not jazz on
Tuesday night, if there be any, we'll get the ax. Okay,
So that's there's more about. Just go out and read it. Yeah,
that's a great letter, very well done. Yeah, there's got
one weird, outstanding like paragraph. Basically the rest of it
is like kind of good. It's kind of like perfect

(30:37):
ax murdering. It's this kind of sinister in it urban
and in a little crazy, but like that's what you
want from your ax murder. You don't want your ox
murder to be like a totally normal Joe, Joe, what
do we what do we got next? Yeah? Okay, so
a little bit of time goes by August. This is

(30:58):
actually heat the that one occurred exactly a year before this. Interesting.
I don't know if I never noticed that, but there's
a little symmetry there. Yeah, there is. So a guy
named Steve Boca, another grocer, another Italian, of course, they
had an apartment above or next to his store, and
he was attacked as he slept by somebody with an ax.

(31:19):
He awoke, found a dark figure looming over his bed,
got whacked but didn't get killed. His head had been
sort of cracked open. He went to his neighbor's home,
where he collapsed, but he survived. And they found once
again that a pamela on the back door had been
chiseled out, and that in this particular case, he didn't
say anything about whether he had left the axe behind

(31:41):
or not, so he couldn't remember anything of any of
the details of the attack. Really. Our next victim Sarah Laman.
She was attacked on September three, nine. They she lived alone,
She was nineteen years old, and the neighbors seems odd
for the time, but it is. Yeah, but and without family. Yeah,

(32:04):
but apparently her neighbors there, Her neighbors kept an eye
on her, and they kept they would come back and
check on her, and that she wasn't answering the door.
So they wound up breaking in and they found her
unconscious out our bed, severe head injury and has some
teeth broken out. The intruder apparently it entered through an
open window and hit her with a blond object. Bloody

(32:25):
axe was discovered on the front lawn, and so it
was attributed to the axe man. She again, like the
previous guy, recovered but couldn't recall any details about the attack. Okay, next,
and this is our last victim. Mike Peppertoni was attacked
October n his wife and I'm not really sure if
they were sleeping in the same bed or what it was.

(32:47):
It's not rare, you know, for times like these for
people to not be sleeping in the same bed or
the same room, or for proper reasons of moral standing,
or maybe because somebody snores, or maybe you know, well,
no that that is a kind of a common thing.
And actually it's been proven that it's actually good for
some people to sleep in separate beds. But I'm just

(33:07):
trying to determine is this a it's the nineties fifties
husband whife sleep in different beds kind of theory, or
she was just sleeping somewhere else. That's what I understand.
It sounds that she was sleeping in a different room. Yeah,
there's there's the social stigma of sleeping in separate rooms
didn't really come about until like the sixties. Well, you know,
I watched Leave It to Beaver as a kid, so

(33:29):
I understand that that's the way it was supposed to
have always been. You're really destroying a lot of my
preconceptions of how life is supposed to be. Yeah, I
I didn't have to buy that extra bed from my
house anyway, Joe. But you know, as you mentioned, like
a bigger beds of luxury. So like, if you if
there's any kind of sleep, you know, when you're sleeping
in a queen bed with somebody, right, you're like, okay,

(33:50):
well that's mildly annoying. But if you're like trying to
sleep on a twin mattress with somebody else, you're like, nope, nope,
not tonight. No. Yeah, So anyway, you know. It's so
I'm assuming that from what I've heard about this, that
they were in separate rooms. She hears him, she hears noise,
and she gets to his bedroom and a large axe
wielding man is comes out fleeing the scene and he'd

(34:11):
been struck in the head that was covered with blood.
There was spatter all over the room, all over the walls.
Mrs Peppertoni was not able to really describe the characteristics
of the killer, and her description was just downright vague. Uh,
And there's a reason to suspect that maybe she didn't
tell the police everything. Yeah. And and also, by the way,

(34:31):
this is the one, this is the one where another
version of this, he was not beating to death or
chopped with an axe. He was beating to death with
a with an eighteen inch long pipe that had a
big nut on the on one end of it. Yeah. Yeah,
entirely possible. Again, this weird m O issue that I
talked about earlier that bothers me about this story. Yeah,
maybe he didn't have an ax laying around. Maybe he

(34:53):
just had a big old piece of pipe laying around. Yeah.
So anyway, I also want to like point out that
for somebody who's like a quote unquote serial killer didn't
really kill how many people he was the majority of
his victims survived. Yeah, he was a kind of incompetent,
he didn't he actually didn't kill everybody. So if killing

(35:15):
was the intention, right, incompetent would be the word. If
killing was not the intention, then fairly successful except for
a couple of screw ups, I guess, I mean to
be fair though, like that first one doesn't is actually
like the least like the m O right, he like

(35:36):
slipped their throats, killing them and then bashed their head
in with a and the rest of them they were
just like attacked their bash over the head a bunch
of times and either they died from it or they didn't.
But so that's odd to me. But yeah, you know,
it might be that a lot of these people didn't
die because he didn't really intend to kill him and

(35:57):
said that there's maybe as another serial murder cases, Perhaps
there was just one person that he wanted to murder
for sure. So and then you had to go around
and make it look like a random, unconnected string of
syria like that just before. I just think that is
obscene because there's just so much work involved that. Yeah,

(36:21):
I'm just gonna duck it and try and avoid the
heat and the coppers and see if I can get
away with it. Yeah, there's that too, I mean because
a million people have done it and gone away with
it that way. Oh yeah, so that's just that's just
a long game, which I don't I don't think is
really the way this would go. True. There is a

(36:42):
pretty short list of suspects. Actually there's only really two.
So yeah, this is again because Steve's going to hate this,
I think, right last week when we were like, well
there's two suspects, Well did you you've included in the
list when I sent you, right, Jake Bird, Yeah, okay,
I actually had to send him a suspect because this

(37:04):
frustrated me so much. I found a suspect. He has
made one up totally. Yeah, no, I had. I had
to keep digging business difficult to find suspects in this
story because I mean, again, we're talking the late nineteen
The record keeping is not an efficient process. No one

(37:28):
was like backing up their hard drives or anything. Literal
card catalog yeah and handwritten notes in a vault. And oops,
the police station burned down, so that it's very frustrating.
That's that's what I sent him. A suspect. But we're
not gonna We're not gonna go there. We're gonna start
with your first one. Like the first one better well
the first one, yeah, I think actually is a is

(37:49):
a better suspect. So this guy's name was Joseph mom Free.
I've seen his name spelled so many different ways. Yeah,
and mom Free free man for Mumford and son. Somebody
call yeah, somebody called the Leon j Manfree um. So
this guy was shot to death in Los Angeles again

(38:10):
at Counts Varry. This is again, like so many of
our stories, it's gotten so garbled over the years. It
was shot to death in either December nineteen nineteen or
December ninety or December, but definitely December, Yeah, definitely December,
definitely in Los Angeles. A guy named Richard Warner did
a lot of research on the mob in Los Angeles
and New Orleans, and he's kind of recast his story

(38:33):
as mafia warfare rather than some sort of demonic serial killer,
and which might explain all the Italians of all to
the story. Joseph Monfrey was also known in New Orleans
as frank quote Doc unquote Mumfree and so that was
probably his real name. He was involved apparently with the mob.
He uh, he got involved in murders, extortions, bombings, kidnappings,

(38:57):
He did all kinds of good stuff. He were okay,
he looked relocated to l A in late nineteen nineteen.
So if he was the killer, that was explaining why
you're stopped because he was later joined Yeah, yeah, and
I'm not. And this is a lot of a lot
of this in this interesting information I'm about to unload
on you all. Is I want to give a little

(39:19):
credit here this crime writer named Michael Newton who did
a lot of research and wrote a bunch of stuff
on this. And also again that other guy, Richard what's
his face, Richard Warner. Richard Warner pieced together most of this. Ye,
Richard Warrener pieced together most of this. So apparently Mumprey
moved to l A opened a drug store. And because

(39:42):
I didn't mention he was called Doc. That was his
nickname because he was actually a pharmacist by trade, and
so that's explains the nickname. So he opens a drug
store and I don't know if that was a prod
or maybe he was just wanted to get out of
get out of his life of crime. I'm not sure.
He was joined in Los Angeles by an associate from
New Orleans and below Albano Albano opened an Italian grocery.

(40:03):
So I guess what he got He wind up dying apparently, Yeah,
he des Italian groceries. Just remind me never to open,
especially when Doc Mum frees around. Yeah, Albano Albano, after
a year or two, disappeared. His wife accused mum Free
of murdering him. Oh yeah, yeah, this this is where
he gets harry. This is where it gets a little strange.

(40:26):
So a few months after the disappearance, he reported this
to the police. The police basically did nothing, or maybe
they'd investigated but really couldn't come up with anything. Mumfree
went to the widow's house, she threatened, He threatened her
and demanded money, and she shot him and standing woman
of the community. Her name was Esther Albano. She was
also the widow of Mike Pepperoni. Yeah he's he's the

(40:50):
first victim. He's the last one, okay, Yeah, apparently the one,
the one who had like a bunch of kids and couldn't,
and he just was like, I don't know who murdered
my husband, right, yeah, well apparently, yeah, apparently she was.
She was out in l a and she met Angelo
Angelo Albano, and they got they woked up getting married,

(41:13):
and then of course he gets apparently disappeared and murdered.
And so she told the police that mon Prey actually
killed two of her husbands. Because of this, now she's
accusing him, even though she said at the time that
Mike PEPPTONI was killed, that she didn't she didn't know,
I gave very vague descriptions. Now she seemed sure that

(41:33):
mont pretty actually was a killer. So it could be well,
it could be I mean, well, anyway she and her
husband had been involved with the mafia, then obviously you
don't you don't tell the cops anything, so that unless
you want to die. Yeah, But of course if that
was the case, and I'm not sure why she's talking
to the police at this point in time either, well,
I mean, I guess there's also the argument to be made,

(41:54):
right that, like maybe she was going for Albano anyways, right,
like she wanted to be with him, and this is
like the lady version of this right, Like she wanted
to be with Albano, and so Albano was like, hey, Murphy,
you're pretty good at this killing thing. Why don't you
killed my lady's husband on the side like that, Like

(42:20):
that is a good theory. I like that. I mean,
you know, hey, you've been killing all these people who
are attacking all these people. Why don't you like do
me a favor? You know, it would explain why she
ended up with a guy who was associated with somebody
who might have killed her husband. Okay, but but I
just have to say that that would be the weirdest
pillow talk ever for sure. So I've totally been hacking

(42:46):
people up with hatchets or axes and lead pipes and
straight razors and you're the best and I want to
be with you ever oh so great? No, no, no,
it goes different than that. The pillow talk is like, man,
I really love you when I want to be with you,
but my husband's in the way. You know, somebody maybe
chop him up. Yeah, because you know you're part of

(43:06):
the mafia. So like, do you think you know somebody?
And yeah, I know a guy. Yeah, I'll see if
I can get him to do it. Yeah, that it
wouldn't have been Alipino, that it would have sure, well,
you know, yeah, if movies have taught me anything, it's
that that very often happened. Yeah, guys like Jack Nicholson

(43:28):
and Jessica what's your name? Or yeah. So uh So, anyway,
he shot or she shot Momprey to death. She claimed
self defense, but she was arrested, tried, and convicted for it. Anyhow,
she was sentced to ten years and didn't do all
that time. I think she only did two or three years.
A man named a crime writer I just mentioned him
actually a few minutes ago, Michael Newton. She searched or

(43:49):
he searched the police and court records in Los Angeles
and he couldn't find anybody named mom Pree being killed
and that at that time. So he was kind of
trying to debunk this whole thing. But Richard Warner, the
other guy, did actually do a search and he found
a death certificate for Leon J. Manfree issued by Los
Angeles County in one or wherever I can't remember now,

(44:12):
but well the dates were mixed up. We don't have
a solid date. So he did find that. So and
that's this guy let's let's let's not forget his name
was Frank quote unquote Doc mom Free or Joseph mom
Free or god knows what. He might have had a
lot of aliases. Maybe maybe Leon Mumfree was his actual

(44:33):
real name. I don't know, but maybe that's the fake
idea that they found on him when they found his corpse.
I'm not sure. Or the one person who came to
I d M it was like, oh, yeah, that's Leon. Yeah.
So so anyway, that's that's our suspect. He may or
may not be the guy nobody else. He seems to
be everybody else's favorite too, okay. Suspect number two Jake Bird.

(44:54):
So Jake Bird was a transient and he moved all
around the country. He took jobs working at a labor
working on railroads. Has a quote unquote candy dancwer, which
I which is a strange sounding thing, but apparently gandy
dancers are the guys that lay the tracks and maintained
the tracks. So he did a little work on railroads
doing that kind of stuff. That's a weird phrase. Yeah,

(45:16):
I don't know why. I don't understand it, but I'll
just let it go. It's pretty random. Right, know that
he was born and raised and guess where Louisiana. Yeah,
born December fourteenth, nineteen o one, which would have made
him seventeen at the time of the first murder, assuming
at the nineteen eleven nineteen twelve stuff. And I is
not connected And I can't believe he's murdering people at

(45:38):
ten years old. Yeah, Yeah, that's a disturbed individual if
that's the case. Yeah, I don't I don't buy that. Yeah,
Jake Bird was in and out of jailist whole life. Reportedly,
he served over his lifetime a total thirty one years.
And how old was he when he died? He was Yeah,

(46:00):
I know, he spent a lot of time in jail.
Holy crap. And that's actually a good thing because I mean,
if he was as prolific a killer as we are
led to believe, then imagine how many more corpses he
would have left. Yeah. So he was arrested October thirtieth seven,
and good old Tacoma, Washington, one of my favorite towns
to drive through. Yeah, he asked murdered two women. It

(46:22):
was a lady. It was back murder ladies and gentlemen
picked up he as murdered him with an ax that
he found on their property. He was it was a
woman and her seventeen year old daughter, and uh, yeah,
he went inside and grabbed an axe from the woodshed outside.
Apparently went inside and it was apparently port into some
accounts that I read, trying to rape the mother and

(46:44):
then she resisted. He started chopping with the acts of
daughter comes in and tries to interrupts, and so she
gets hacked, and then he flees and police see him
fleeing the scene because the neighbors had called the police
because they heard all these screams. And the police chase
him and they catch him, and uh, he claimed He
claimed first that he hadn't he didn't know what they
were talking about, but he had. He had like blood

(47:07):
and gray matter all over his clothes. Don't know, I
don't know what you're talking about, officer is. Yeah, Yeah,
I was just totally bleeding myself. Yeah. And the judicial
system was a little less sclerotic back in those days.
It moved pretty quick. He was arrested in October and
he was tried in November, and the trial lasted, I

(47:30):
believe two and a half days, and the jury deliberate.
I believe thirty five minutes. Yeah, so this is an
episode of law and Order right now. So after he
was convicted and he was sent to death row, he
was in Walla Walla State Penitentiary. He asked for clemency.
Basically he wanted them to put off his date of death.

(47:51):
And his bargaining ship was he promised to convest to
forty four other murders. He said he had knowledge he
had committed forty four other murder years part or taken
part into. Yeah, this guy was a fairly successful serial killer.
I mean for having spent thirty one years of his
life in jail. So where all is he is? He

(48:12):
saying that he he did all this killing because obviously
it wasn't just Washington. Yeah, it was all all over
the country. Uh, they were actually able to solve I
think eleven or twelve crimes based on his confessions not
and some of the other ones. They didn't believe him,
but they found they were murders in Illinois, Colorado, Kentucky, Neraska, Kansas,
South Dakota, Ohio, Florida, Texas, Wisconsin, and of course Washington

(48:37):
were Kakomba is situated. Uh, he didn't confess to anything
in New Orleans. He was put to death July, so
that would have made him what forty seven years old,
forty eight years old. Yeah. So the reason to think
he might have been the killing Well, he liked, he
liked the whole acts thing. Apparently he killed. He claimed

(48:58):
have killed a lot of people using acts. Uh. And
like the axe Man, he used an axe or an hatchet,
a hatchet found at the victims homes. And he's sneaky looking.
I've seen pictures of him. That's incredible reason I think shifty. Yeah, Okay,

(49:20):
the reasons I don't think he's a killer nothing. In
the case of the axe Man, he didn't take anything
from the victims homes. He wasn't there to rob them.
And in the case of Jake Bird, it seemed to
me like the guy probably could have used money. He
was a transient taking odd jobs and stuff. Yeah. If
you see a bunch of stuff laying around this valuable.
If you see some cash, you're gonna take it, right. Yeah,

(49:40):
that's one reason I don't think he was the ax Man.
Another reason is he did confess and gave details about
a lot of murders, but he never confessed to anything
in New Orleans seems like, yeah, even though there are
people who think that he was indeed the infamous ax
man of New Orleans, now he didn't really volunteer to
take credit for those Why wouldn't he, Oh, listen, you know, Okay, again,

(50:03):
this is trying to step into the mind of somebody
that I've never met a hundred years ago. But maybe
he has somebody in that area that he's protecting. In
other words, you know, he might have had family that
were involved in some of these things that he did,
or that helped cover it up, and he doesn't want
to spill the beans on him. I mean, I mean,

(50:25):
this is complete and total, just made up. But I'm
just I'm just trying to think, because if he is
that prolific and he's from that area, why wouldn't he
start there, you know what I'm saying, in a place
to practice your craft. Yeah, people don't come upon just
killing people at thirty. They you know, when they have

(50:48):
this kind of serial compulsion, These things, these behaviors, these
things start out early. So it seems like he would
have been doing it where he lived. Now. I don't know, Joe,
I never all when I read the information on Jake Bird,
but do you know how old was he when he
left New Orleans? Do you know? Well he was he

(51:08):
was actually born and raised in rural Louisiana, so I
don't I'm not well in Louisia, Louisiana. He left when
he was nineteen, okay, so he would have been in
the area, which I mean, this is again I'm just
making is the last official attack and then he leaves
the area. Course, this is all everything about this guy

(51:35):
that was was you know, like his birth, his date
of birth, where he was born, when he left rural
Louisiana to travel the country. It was all basically what
he told the cops, so he could have been lying
about all too um. And then I also and my
biggest problem is like why would you admit to some
but not all of the murders that especially if they
were you know, kind of this prolific sort of like

(51:58):
beginning period where like there's a lot of I guess
kind of bargaining material there particularly to be able to
say like, hey, if you stand my life, I'll admit
to being the New Orleans as murderer. I mean, yeah,
you know, well, And the thing about it is is
the act that the New Orleans acts murders were the

(52:19):
most notorious ones, ones that got the most publicity. You
think that he would be in a sense, it's it's
kind of twisted, but you think he would be proudest
of that accomplishment and want to tell I want to
tell the world about it. I was the ax man.
I put that city in fear. Yeah, everybody lived in
terror of me. Of course until they listened to jazz music. Yeah,
listen to jazz music, you'll be fine. Yeah. So anyway,

(52:40):
another mystery solved. I I really do buy. I think
the idea that this wasn't actually just a serial killer,
but was really just mob warfare, and that a lot
of these people were involved. It is it is convenient
because a lot of them were a talent a native Italians.
This is one of those if not necessarily involved in

(53:00):
this is an attack because you didn't pay your protection
money kind of situation which is to have been practiced. Yeah,
I mean I would explain why they lived right then.
It was really punishment, not like actual attack on their lives.
You know, if they were all shopkeepers that lived in
their shops, it could be that they were like supposed
to be smuggling something or supposed to be a front,

(53:23):
or you know, just simply that not paying their dues.
I mean, there's definitely a lot of good kinds of
mobs thing. Yeah, it could have been that kind of thing.
It could have been warfare. Somebody was trying to say
that rival gang is moving in and he's trying to
take over, you know, so he starts killing soldiers and
stuff like that. Or you didn't you didn't take my
offer to be brought in, and I'm gonna I'm gonna

(53:46):
attack you and kill you. So the next I go
to I say, hey, so that that other shopkeeper he
didn't take my offer, and you saw what happened to him.
And then on top of that, I still do believe
that probably a few of the as are as you say, piggybacking,
you know, just opportunism to ideat time to sell that score. Yeah, okay,

(54:06):
so another mystery solved. You know what, more than like ever,
I've kind of actually, you know, what I gotta say
is that from everything that we read online and anybody
who has ever done any investigation in this, Joe has
actually brought up some cellular points that people don't always
bring up. So I think that we've actually at least

(54:27):
not shed some light where maybe it's not been done
where most people focus on the letter and everything's up.
The letter was cool, but I'm not even sure that
we did awesome was written by that We did fantastic.
We totally solved it, now, we did. We did obviously,
So you probably wanted to know folks are good listeners.

(54:48):
You probably want to know where to send the money.
Well yeah, no, actually, uh, you probably want to know
where to find this. But of course you've already found this.
But maybe you found us at one place, but you
don't know about the other places to go find us.
So let's start from the top. Taking sideways podcast dot
Com our web page, you will find all kinds of
good stuff out there links to you can download our

(55:09):
show and all that stuff. Uh. You can also find
us on iTunes, and if you find us on iTunes,
please take the time to stop give us a rating
and give us a review. We'd really appreciate it. If
you don't have time to go download us, and you
can stream us on Stitcher. And by the way, everybody
knows that we drop our shows on Thursdays Thursday mornings,
which I were missed to say that we haven't mentioned before,

(55:32):
but for our friends who are in Australia that we
know we're downloading, I guess that's Friday afternoons. Sorry, guys,
totally discovered that the other day by accident realized I
screwed up what we said that. Also, we're on Facebook,
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(55:56):
How does the Facebook thing work? I don't know. How
does it work? I don't know. You can like us,
and you can join the group, and you can join
the group is actually having some there has been people
are continually joining the group and it's actually making some
fun interactions and discussions. So I'm really I actually enjoyed
the group more than the page, to be honest. Last

(56:17):
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(56:41):
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serves and gentlemen. I am the account holder from you
know those guys. Those guys can put in the spamp
to everybody. Yeah, I know you don't because you're not
a part of this. I'm a slacker. I checked the
email account occasionally, but I'm not as assiduous about it
as you guys. Yeah, it's it's that holy pops into

(57:04):
my phone thing, don't we have. I think we We've
gotten a bunch of emails, and there was one we
do there was one that you wanted to read it? Yeah, yeah, no,
And I wanted to say, I think you touched on
this a little bit, Joe, as we this week alone,
and of course we pre record the shows, so the
week that we're recording, we got a bunch of email traffic.
And everything was great for everybody who sent us an

(57:25):
email with suggestions and and kudos and accolades and all that.
Appreciate that. But there's one that I really really enjoyed,
and that's what I wanted read away. This is from
Nicole and Nicole says, Hi, guys and girly. Yeah, I
recently discovered your podcast while searching for ones about carnex
stones and have had a healthy addiction ever since. Healthy

(57:49):
is a bad choice of work. It's the best kind
of ads is a healthier addiction, that's say smack. Can
we go ahead? All right? Thank you? You guys do
your homework often intelligently, feasible theories, and infuse it with
a lot of humor. Today alone, I've busted out laughing
twice while catching up some of your older episodes. I

(58:12):
commute about seventy miles to work, and yeah, it's a
huge commute. I wind about my commute. I commute about
seventy miles to work, and listening to you guys really
helps me past the time. I also implicitly surprised to
know that you're from Portland, Oregon, which is obviously where

(58:32):
we are, as I was born and raised in the
Limb Valley, which prebody who doesn't know the Portland area
where in Oregon, which Portland is at the north tip
in the will Lambtte Valley is south of US, so
Eugene or Eugene or Salem, Mish is a big city
for those Simpsons fans Springfield. They finally even by the way,

(58:53):
they finally revealed that s indeed Springfield, Oregon is setting.
Of course it is because Mac grantings from Portland. It
doesn't matter, and they were quite about that for years. Yeah,
but you know. Nicole then goes on to suggest a
story first look into, which called freaking hilarious. And I

(59:14):
have an idea on how to work that in somewhere
the one as always not going to reveal that to anybody,
including you two. You so but no, thank you Nicole
for the email. And uh, that is a terrible commute,
and I'm happy that we're at least making it a
little more better better for you. And I hope you

(59:35):
find either a job that's closer to home or a
home that's closer to job. Go world, I don't. I
hope she can stop listening to us. Yeah that's a
good point. Oh no, please stay at that job, Nicole,
I love it. Don't ever leave better exactly better? Kay,
Thanks very much for the email, Nicole, and uh for

(59:57):
thinking sideways. I would like to say goodbye goodnight, everybody, goodnight,
and want to say goodbye. I don't mean forever. I
just mean for this week.