May 14, 2025 • 40 mins
Caitlin Murray had built a full life as a working mom of two, preparing to return full-time to her job after the birth of her third child - until everything changed. When her oldest son was diagnosed with leukemia, Caitlin made the decision to stay home, putting her career on pause to care for her family during an unimaginably hard season of life. What started as writing to cope slowly evolved into “Big Time Adulting,” a viral Instagram account that now resonates with over a million people. In this episode, Caitlin opens up about the grief, humor, and grit behind her unexpected pivot, the evolution of her relationship to success, and how sharing her most honest self online helped her - and so many others - feel a little less alone.
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She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Caitlin, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caitlin Murray (00:00):
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Caitlin Murray this week.
Emily Tisch Sussman (00:33):
I'm delighted to have Kaitlin Murray on the show, though
most of you know her by her Instagram handle Big
Time Adulting. I first found Caitlin's account during the pandemic
when I felt like I was losing my mind. Her
content was exactly what I needed to know that I
wasn't alone. When I found out that she had an
(00:53):
amazing pivot story, I knew I wanted to have her
on the show. Plus, she is hilarious many of us moms.
Caitlyn left her job from Eternity Leave, planning to ease
back in slowly after having her third baby. After all,
she had worked when she had the first two. But
then everything changed when her oldest was diagnosed with leukemia
(01:14):
and she knew she needed to pivot to stay home
full time amidst all of the pain. Caitlyn began writing.
From there, she decided to start sharing her life online.
Now with over a million followers, Caitlyn has redefined what
success means to her several times over, and I can't
wait for you all to hear her story and become
as obsessed with her as I am enjoy.
Caitlin Murray (01:41):
My name is Caitlin Murray and I am a content creator,
a writer, and a mom.
Emily Tisch Sussman (01:48):
Okay, so we are going to go in chronologic orders.
We're going to back up. We're going to go little Caitlin.
Oh wow, Yeah, we're like really gonna go take me
back and yeah, yeah, we're really going going back. What
did you like get me in the headspace? Where are
you in your sibling order? Like, what did you think
you were going to be when you grew up?
Caitlin Murray (02:09):
I was the second of two children. I have one
older brother. I am from Massachusetts. I like to say
I am from southeastern Massachusetts. I've lived like all over
the south shore of Massachusetts. I grew up on Cape
Cod a little bit. We started just being there in
the summers. Then my family moved to our house that
we spent summers in, and I went to school on
(02:32):
Cape Cod full time. And then my parents separated when
I was in like the eighth grade, and I went
to boarding school, and then my parents moved off of
the Cape to two different towns, one easton one in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
So that's like where I'm from. And my brother and
(02:53):
my family all live in Massachusetts. Still and I live
in New York, and my childhood was it was great,
pretty average, except for my parents' separation and divorce that
iube was pretty devastating for me and kind of felt
like it came out of nowhere.
Emily Tisch Sussman (03:09):
I think, especially with three kids, I more and more
begin to think that a sibling birth order is so formative.
Do you think it was for you or do you
think any of those experiences were so much more formative
for you.
Caitlin Murray (03:23):
It's so funny because in my house, with my nuclear
family here now, I feel like my kids are like
to a te birth order stereotypical. But in my house
growing up, it was different. My brother was more of
like the rule breaker, sort of rebel between the two
(03:44):
of us, and then I was definitely, I think, just
maybe as a reaction to that, like a more people
pleaser type kiddo, sort of stayed between the lines. If
you can imagine, never got in trouble played by the
book What did you think you were going to be
when you I mean, what didn't I think I was
going to be when I grew up. I was going
to be maybe like an actress. I was going to
(04:06):
be the president. I was going to be a teacher,
a million things. You know, I didn't really have any
hard and fast visions, but yeah, I'm none of those
things now.
Emily Tisch Sussman (04:19):
So you were pretty well rounded.
Caitlin Murray (04:21):
I suppose thank you for saying that. Yeah, I did
have a variety of interests. I still do. I still
really do.
Emily Tisch Sussman (04:30):
Early on, Caitlyn didn't put much weight on her career.
She thought she'd get married, have kids, and stay home,
and things started to fall into place when she met
her husband, Michael.
Caitlin Murray (04:42):
I met my husband in college. We went to Middlebury
up in Vermont. He was from New York, and so
after graduation we were together, but like, our relationship was
a rocky place at that time. We were just up
and down and we were doing a lot of some
breaking up and making up and thing. But I just
wanted like a new experience and a couple of friends,
(05:04):
and I decided to move to New York. And the
rest is kind of history, because my husband and I
did end up blocking it in like several years later,
after exploring if we were really right for each other
or not. And I've been in New York ever since.
You guys are still together.
Emily Tisch Sussman (05:21):
I feel like people don't generally think those are going
to work out those relationships that are like up and down.
Did you think that it was not going to work out?
Caitlin Murray (05:29):
I think that there was a period of time in
my early twenties after graduation that I wasn't sure. But
there was like a pretty distinctive breakup that we ended
up when when we got back together, felt very different
and like our relationship had turned our real corner in
terms of like its maturity level. And at that point
(05:50):
I knew that he would be the one. But when
we first started dating, which was a scandal because I
had a boyfriend at the time, he was such a
good friend of mine. He was like my best friend
at the time, and I thought this guy could easily
be my husband because I just enjoy him so much.
I still feel that way.
Emily Tisch Sussman (06:09):
What do you think felt different when you guys got
back together, Like what had changed?
Caitlin Murray (06:14):
Yeah, you know, we were both from parents who whose
marriages were not successful, so I think that we had
a lot of reservations about, you know, being super realistic
about who was right for us and making sure of
that before deciding to actually get married, and was almost
(06:37):
like quite cynical about that selection process. I mean, I
feel like even then I was I sort of understood
marriages about finding the person that drives you the least crazy,
Like they're going to still drive you crazy, because everyone's
going to drive you crazy, but the person who will
like not make you be crazy yere, And so I
(06:59):
think I went into it was like a really solid
understanding that marriage is hard.
Emily Tisch Sussman (07:06):
Yeah, that's totally fair. And how much did you think
about having kids? How many kids? Like, how central was
that to your thinking about what your life was going
to look like? And did you make decisions around it.
Caitlin Murray (07:19):
I always wanted three kids because I had only one brother,
and I always was super curious as to what a
family of three or more would look like. I think
I always wished I had one more sibling or that
kind of thing, and just to see what that family
dynamic would be like. So it was sort of this
goal in my mind to get to three. But holy shit,
(07:40):
after I had won, I was like, to do this,
it's crazy. I didn't know this was going to be
so hard, And so that was a real slap in
the face. Eye opener. And my husband's cousin would say,
kids are like crack. You have one and then you
kind of want to have another, even though it's like
for you.
Emily Tisch Sussman (08:04):
What were you doing professionally at the time. Did you
feel like that was a real focus for you, equally
to trying to figure out how to have three kids.
Caitlin Murray (08:12):
Professionally At that time, before having kids and while dating
and at the beginning of my marriage, I was working
or actually I stopped working at this place right before
I got married, or as around the time I got engaged,
because I was working for this company that raised money
for charities based out of Ireland, and all of the
(08:33):
way that we did that was through hosting large events,
and all of the events and opportunities to entertain donors
and be at parties all of the time and be
traveling to other parties in different places was never going
to be conducive to a mother of young children. So
I was kind of like, I got to wrap this
up and find a job that is going to be
(08:56):
a little bit more friendly to motherhood because I really
knew that I wanted kids, and I kind of figured
like I would go like a very vanilla traditional path
about it, where I was like, I'll get married and
then I'll wait a year, and then I'll start trying
to have kids, and I'll have a kid, and then
all have another kid two years after that, and but
like I had it all planned out in my mind
what I thought was going to be, which is of
(09:18):
course never how it all turns out.
Emily Tisch Sussman (09:21):
So what you're describing right now, I think is a
lot of what we talk about, which is changing your
version of success. Yes, that your version of success in
that job, it sounds like, was being successful in the
metrics of the job, raising money, putting on a bends,
being present, all of that, and as your personal life evolved,
(09:42):
like as your personal life changed, it was no longer
meeting your your metric of success.
Caitlin Murray (09:47):
Yeah, I mean in that sense, I will say quite
honestly that I don't think I ever took that career
path of mine and even the job that I got
after that to continue working to too seriously, because in
my mind I was going to become probably a stay
at home mom. So when I became pregnant with my
(10:09):
first child, in my mind, I was like, that's it,
I'm going to become a stay at home mom. I've
been I've been ready for this, I've been this is
what I've been thinking I wanted to do, And then
when the baby came, I was like, holy shit, I
want to go back to the office. This is so hard,
you know. I was so jealous of my husband, who
would be able to like skip out the front door
(10:30):
and go get a coffee and like go to the
bathroom by himself and eat lunch and shit like that.
And I was like, oh my god, this like is
so different from what I imagined it would be. I
can't even begin to describe how duped I feel right now, honestly.
And I had this conversation with my boss before I
(10:52):
left to have the baby, and I was really honest
and I said, you know, I don't want to trick
you into thinking that I'm going to come back after
a maternity leave or something. And she was like, Kaitlyn,
take your maternity leave, and if you decide at the
end of that that you don't want to come back,
I will be totally okay with that, but you might
feel differently, like just take my word for it. And
she was like, we can restructure your like let you
(11:16):
come in on a part time basis. And that's what
I actually ended up doing. I went to down just
three days a week in the office, and I was
so grateful for her for leaving that option open for me.
That I didn't anticipate wanting to use. And it was
a real like a mental saving grace for me to
have that. By the time, like I went back on
(11:38):
maternity leave, I thought, like you would think I would
just be like crying, like, oh my god, I can't
leave my baby. I was skipping down my walkway to
get out the door to work. Now. Granted, like I knew,
I was also being part time and I would have
time home with the baby, so I was very lucky
to have that set of circumstances, but I was really
shocked to feel the way that I felt. It was
(12:00):
a definitely like turned my world upside down moment. So
after I left that job that was like the fast
paced party life, and I went to work in a
different fundraising capacity but in a school, and I was
dealing with high and neet worse individuals doing fundraising there,
and it was a very like much more structured like
(12:24):
work life friendly environment. It was not these lavish party situations.
It was very PG everything, PGPC everything, and it was
great for like the purpose that it served at that
time of my life. But I was not passionate about
where I was or what I was doing, and there
came a point in time, but something's happened in my
(12:44):
life that made it very clear that I needed to
be more at home.
Emily Tisch Sussman (12:51):
When we come back, we hear how Caitlin's life was
turned upside down in a blink of an eye. After
finally finding her footing back at work, Caitlin received news
(13:11):
that no mother wants to hear.
Caitlin Murray (13:14):
So I had my first two while I was working there,
when my oldest was three and my middle at the time,
who was my youngest, was only one. My oldest was
diagnosed with leukemia and that ended up obviously turning my
whole world upside down. And the place where I worked
was wonderful about that situation for me, and they allowed
(13:38):
me to kind of like restructure my job however I
wanted it to be at the time working from home
as much as I needed or wanted indefinitely. And this
was well before the pandemic, and working from home was
like not as normalized as it is now, which was
so nice. But this was a long process. My son
was in treatment for over three years, and during time
(14:00):
I also became pregnant with our third child, and he
was born in May of twenty nineteen, and at that time,
my oldest who was still in treatment, was well enough
to go back to school, but was still super fragile
and would have to go to the hospital right away
if he had a fever because he had a port
in his chest, and I really needed to be readily
(14:22):
available and on call, and I couldn't be commuting into
the city. We were living out in the suburbs at
that time. We still live out in the verbs, but
I needed to be there immediately if he were to
get sick, and especially if he had become febrile. So
I took that as my queue to exit the structured
working world as it were. And that was really hard.
(14:44):
Even though I wasn't like super dedicated to my job
and that career per se, it was something that was
mine that was not about being a mom, and it
was like this wonderful escape for me to just be
working and doing something outside of my role as mom
and caregiver. And to give that up felt like I
was leaving this whole like part of my identity for
(15:07):
grabs or just like a side and giving, you know,
sort of giving up on that part of me. But
it and that's where that whole redefinition of success really
came into play, and I had to really focus on
the fact that my most important and valued place at
that time was with my kids. And you know, it
was my honor to be there for my son when
he was sick, and I would do it a thousand
(15:29):
million times over. But for me personally, it did feel
like I was making a deeper sacrifice of myself because
even though that job wasn't what I wanted, I knew
I wanted more personally for like a deeper sense of fulfillment.
Emily Tisch Sussman (15:45):
You talk about this identity shift like that you can
both things can be true. You can want to be
home with your kids and you had always wanted it,
and you can be sad about that loss of identity
for yourself. To me, like, I'm guessing this, but your
identity probably became your external identity. Probably became even more
(16:06):
merged with your family life than an average mom who
would step away from her and be with her kids,
because you became like the mom of the kid with cancer. Yeah,
I was fully part of who I was and what
I had to be doing at the time. And this
is where the huge part that I didn't expect and
didn't envision came fully into play in my life was,
which was that I didn't want to be the full
(16:29):
time stay at home mom. Like but this is where
women have such a get the short end of the
stick all of the time, because men don't have to
feel that guilt about not being there for and with
the kids, Like it is just a given that they
will be working. It's always a given for them, and
there's no question of who's going to if they're going
to be the ones to stay home, or if you're
going to get help or what it's it's always on
(16:51):
what's what is the woman going to do right? And
there's always.
Caitlin Murray (16:55):
Something that you have to set aside in any scenario.
I mean, unless you were like just fully in love
with being home with your kids and it works for
your family and the financial structure of your family, then
I'm like, oh my god, you're so lucky that you
don't have to feel the torment of being there but
kind of not wanting to be there, but knowing that
it's important for you to be there and that it's
(17:17):
a valuable job and the hardest job and all of that.
Emily Tisch Sussman (17:23):
To sort through her complicated emotions around it all, Caitlin
turned to writing and started a blog.
Caitlin Murray (17:30):
At the beginning, it definitely felt really heavy, and it
was heavy. There were a period of months where I
honestly just like did not really feel like joking or
laughing or didn't feel like I was able to access
a lot of joy at that time. But what I
had started doing fairly early on in my son's treatment
process was writing to family and friends about not just
(17:53):
like updates, but something more anecdotal, and I would talk
about our lives altogether, what I was going through mentally
as a mom at that time, and I was able
to touch on and tap into humor there and really
like let some stuff rip in my writing. That felt
so good to be able to say, because I felt
(18:15):
like I was still honoring, like the hard parts of
what we were going through and then able to just
get a little release and take the edge off a
little bit with the humor. And little by little I
continued to really tap into that and lean on it
a lot as a coping mechanism for what we were
going through. And it's one of those things where now
(18:35):
on my Instagram account, all I do is make fun
of kids and the challenges and the struggles of what
it really is like being a parent. And it's not
about the cancer stuff like it's about the every day,
the mundane. It's stuff that I felt from the very
beginning of becoming a mom. But I didn't know that
it was like okay to talk about that stuff until
(18:58):
I had started going through this difficult situation with my son,
and I got through that. And I don't know if
this is an expletive free podcast, but today it's not
because I really didn't give a fuck about what anyone
felt or thought or said about what I had to
say about what it was like to be a mom,
and that at that time, because I was really in
the trenches and I knew my worth and my value
(19:22):
as a mom, I had a lot of conviction in that.
Emily Tisch Sussman (19:25):
Going through those really tough moments. Obviously you would never
wish it upon anybody, but going through tough moments like
that really does make you tougher to criticism because you
really truly give a fuck less what people think and
like how you process it, because you're like I made it,
like I made it through or I'm making it right now,
and so I'm really uninterested in how you judge me
(19:46):
in it.
Caitlin Murray (19:48):
Yeah, it's very freeing in a lot of ways of
so many things, you know, in a way that I
can't say that I always am good about this, but
not getting bogged down as much by little things, or
really appreciating and finding a ton of gratitude in the
little things, which goes along with I think the like
not caring about the things that aren't that important, such
(20:10):
as someone else's opinion of you when it's not hurtful,
you know, like when you're not like hurting anyone or
doing something like what does it matter what you think?
I'm saying how I feel and I'm talking about my experience.
You know, I'm not telling you how you need to feel.
Emily Tisch Sussman (20:26):
And she does this masterfully on her Instagram account. She
showcases what's real and honest in a way that feels
both deeply unique and completely relatable. After the break, we
dive into how and why Caitlyn decided to transition her
blog over to social media. Welcome back to the show.
(20:53):
After a few years of blogging, Caitlyn found her way
to social media in a way might not expect through
the publishing industry.
Caitlin Murray (21:02):
And that's when I actually ended up getting started with
my Instagram account, which took me to a whole new
career path in a wonderful way that was sort of
born out of this really difficult experience that I was
going through. But all this to say that, like, your
life can totally change, and there's so much room for
(21:24):
different careers and endeavors that you may never have expected
that are completely outside of what you've been trained to
do or have done throughout your life.
Emily Tisch Sussman (21:34):
So when you made the transition, were people sending your
blog around?
Caitlin Murray (21:38):
Like?
Emily Tisch Sussman (21:38):
Did your blog start to go around as a public
platform and then you transitioned it to an Instagram account?
And why not use your name? When you started a bit?
Caitlin Murray (21:46):
It did go around, but like very minimally, just like
probably from a family friend network perspective, like it was
definitely not reaching far and wide. And that is sort
of what ended up propelling me to start my Instagram
act out because a woman who lives in my town,
who worked in the editing world for years, had seen
(22:07):
it and asked if I would be interested in her
showing it to her publisher, and I was like, this
would be wonderful. I love writing, And the publisher sort
of came back and was like, this writing is fine,
She's fine, But like, this woman has no platform we're
not going to give her a fucking book deal, you know,
like scram And so then I kind of realized how
that world works, and I was thinking, maybe I should
(22:29):
take my show on the road, get on social media,
and see if I can build a platform. So that's
how I got that part started. And yeah, so the
blogging and the emailing of our experience was not the
thing that gained me an audience. Yeah.
Emily Tisch Sussman (22:45):
So when you started the account really to be able
to give herself a platform for the blog to make
it a book, did you start it in the same space, like,
in the same headspace that you were saying, I'm trying
to use humor to get through this really hard cancer
moment because your content now is not related to it.
So did it evolve or was it always focused more
(23:06):
on your experience in the every day Yeah?
Caitlin Murray (23:09):
I think. And I didn't answer the part you asked,
why didn't I use my name? I had gone back
and forth on that. I'm not sure why I didn't.
Sometimes I wish that I did use my name, but
I had just named my blog Big Time Adulting, even
when I was just sending it to family and friends,
and I just stuck with it. I just thought that
some of the other mom accounts that I had seen
on Instagram had like names, not their name, but like
(23:33):
fucking names I don't know whatever. So this was my
name and that's what I went with and here we are.
But yeah, the beginning, I wasn't quite sure about like
what and how I was going to be sharing. But
I think that I knew that I had a lot
on my mind about just the day to day stuff,
and that I was thinking all of these funny things
(23:56):
about what my days are like and all the craziness
that goes on in a day with little kids, and
how easy it would be to make fun of them,
and that people needed to know that kids should be
made fun of more.
Emily Tisch Sussman (24:10):
Yeah, I mean, I really can't be in to tell
you how many times my friend sent me your content
and they're like, Emily, this thing that you've been like
privately complaining to us about our in our text chain,
like she's actually saying it out loud. And I think
that you gave a lot of us like a permission
unlock to say yes, I can be like it's the
both things, like yes, I could be happy that I
(24:32):
have these kids and this is really hard and it's
okay for me to complain about it.
Caitlin Murray (24:37):
Yeah, It's one of those things that you don't feel
is okay to say when you first become a mom,
because there's so much ingrained in us about what being
a good mom looks like. And a lot of that
I think goes back to like some deep seated, like
patriarchal trauma that we have about like being a good
(24:57):
wife and a mother and all that shit. And there's
a lot of martyrdom in motherhood, you know, things that
we say or do or don't do and kind of
are willing to die on the proverbial cross for that
are not really serving us. And so think that like
when you're able to talk about this stuff, especially through
(25:18):
like a humorous lens, because that always gives it, like
it's much more palatable for the masses when you make
it funny, you know that it breaks down a lot
of those walls that we feel like we have up
as moms, that we have to present a certain way
or look a certain way as a mother or else
you're a bad mom. And that's just not true, you know,
because there's so much going on behind the scenes and
(25:40):
behind the curtains that we're all experiencing and dealing with
them or just thinking that we suck at this or whatever,
and I was like, you know, I'm just going to
put it out there and say all the things that
I suck yet to everybody, for anyone who wants to hear.
Emily Tisch Sussman (25:53):
It didn't take long for Caitlin's account to catch on
and go viral during COVID. As moms everywhere, we're looking
for anyone to talk honestly about what parenting was truly like,
and Caitlin filled that gap in the market flawlessly.
Caitlin Murray (26:06):
I did have a lot of growth during COVID because
I think that there was actually it was a highly
relatable situation for me because we had done so much
isolating and so much staying at home with our son
while he was sick that I had a lot of
this material was just stuff that I had been feeling
and thinking along the way while I was cooped up
(26:27):
with my kids. That was a completely not new situation
for me at that point, and I was like, I've
got material for days on this, and then it just
became it was super relatable to the masses at that
point too, So a lot of that stuff did go
pretty viral. Good morning. Welcome back to the Shit Show.
I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time Adulting, live from one
(26:47):
of the coronavirus hotspots in the nation. We'll come back
to the shit Show. I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time
deuilting live here from the corner of my bedroom where
I'm hiding from my children this week.
Emily Tisch Sussman (26:58):
Had you been thinking as you create it like that
you were kind of tracking growth, like, were you tracking trends?
Were you really conscious about it or it was just
sort of a brain dump spot for you.
Caitlin Murray (27:10):
I think a little of BOLF because I knew that
I had to be sort of true to myself and
authentic in my messaging if I wanted to be sustainable
and consistent with it, because like you know, I just
wanted to be able to show up every day like
as I was I could, you know, I go on
there no makeup, like woke up first thing looking like
death warmed over and ready to just you know, diarrhea
(27:33):
of the mouth, whatever it is that's at the top
of my mind about the kids and the things that
are happening in my house. So I knew that I
had to be able to like make that happen every day.
But part of that is because like the algorithm response
to consistent, regular output of content, and that I was like,
I can do that, but I just have to be
able to show up as I am.
Emily Tisch Sussman (27:53):
Was there one particular or a couple particular that really
went viral and you're like, Okay, we've hit something here.
Caitlin Murray (27:58):
I think the first one that went viral was a
video of me dancing with Luky strapped to the front
of me to back that ass up in our kitchen,
and it was like I had sunglasses on, he had
sunglasses on, type saying, and the floor was covered in
like markers and stuff. And I think it just was like,
I don't know, if something it hit, it got shared
(28:19):
by somebody who had a big account, and then it
went all over. And then after that it was like
drips and drabs of things that like performed well, like
decent engagement, and then things that were like whoa that
really got shared far and wide, And a few of
those things were at the beginning of COVID for sure.
But yeah, it's been a pretty like steady growth process throughout.
(28:43):
I will say I did see some like immediate rewards
within the first maybe five to eight months, I probably
had like twenty thousand followers or something, and I was like, wow,
that's growth. I can't believe I have twenty thousand followers
on Instagram from spewing this shit in my kitchen, you know.
Emily Tisch Sussman (29:03):
And so how do you think now about your parameters?
Like how do you structure your work? How do you
think about your parameters around your work and your home?
Like you're still you still have three pretty young kids.
It takes a lot of time, but you're very successful.
Caitlin Murray (29:20):
Well thanks. I feel like a chicken with my head
cut off, like all of the time pretty much. I
don't have a ton of help, Like I only have
my babysitter. I'm very particular about like how much people
how much I want other people around, Like I really
prefer to be alone. I have a babysitter a couple
afternoons a week pretty much, and then if needed, when
(29:42):
I have like an event or something like that, I
call it auxiliaries or call her back in or to
get more help. But it is become a lot to
handle because about a year and a half ago, I
started taking my content and my work like much more
seriously as a business, which was sort of part of
the plan. I was sort of always playing a long
(30:02):
game to wait till I got a certain size of
an audience to start focusing more on the business aspect
of what I was doing. I never wanted to be
like an influencer in the very traditional sense, like kind
of selling other products or doing a lot of brand
deals and that kind of thing. I do some of
that stuff, and it's great to monetize all the work
(30:25):
that I put into this, which is it's really cool
to be able to do that, but that's not like
my long term goal. So I was always sort of
playing a long game, and I had the privilege to
do that because my husband was always the breadwinner and
he was able to support us while I was kind
of doing this as like a let's see what happens
(30:46):
type thing. But now it's become a full on business
and a lot of work, and it's my life is
super busy and crazy, but I feel like every mom's
life is super busy and crazy, so I'm just like
everybody else. And to be honest, I shouldn't even say that,
because I really adore being able to do what I'm doing.
(31:07):
It feels like so much fun, it's so much fun.
What do you think your version of success is? Right now?
That's such a good question. I keep like changing my
mind on that. I think that what I have always
felt is when I started this that I truly did
want to monetize it in a very meaningful way, like
at the beginning. But I didn't do anything to monetize
(31:29):
it for quite a while. But I think that that's
also one of those things it's like important to say.
Even though I didn't know what would happen, it was
sort of like a little bit like throwing shit against
the wall to see what sticks at first, and what
is this and what am I doing? I did feel
deep down that I wanted to turn it into something
big and I wanted it to be successful monetarily, and
(31:50):
I still feel that way, And I feel like women
don't always say that that they're like hoping to make
a lot of money what they're doing right and what
they're putting their time and effort into. So that was
always definitely a goal for me. My version of success,
I think, would be to build a business, a real
substantial business of my own, and make it successful through
(32:15):
using my audience, you know, as a consumer. For whatever
that is. It has to be something that's like definitely
really meaningful to me that I'm going to be willing
to talk about and sell and that kind of thing.
So I haven't quite figured. There's a lot of like
balls in the air and ideas and irons and the fire.
So it's kind of waiting and narrowing some things down.
Emily Tisch Sussman (32:38):
Do you come back to that book idea now that
you actually did build the audience?
Caitlin Murray (32:42):
So I am writing a book right now. Also, I
have a book deal and I have another year to
finish it, But I like have not talked about it
that much because I don't want to get sick of
hearing myself talk about it. But the book that I
am writing right now is a collection of short stories,
which is just perfect for me, and I feel like
it's also really great for my audience, who are you know,
(33:03):
pretty much all moms that don't have a lot of
time necessarily to sit and read a huge book, and
that they can take these little, like bite sized stories
and read one before bed or something like that. But yeah,
I think I just felt that during the process of
writing to my friends and family about what was going
on with my son, that I was super therapeutic and
(33:25):
I was finding a ton of joy and outlet in
that process, and that I loved doing it and thought
that I would love to one day maybe write a
book if I were given the opportunity.
Emily Tisch Sussman (33:36):
We had chatted a little while ago and you had
said something to me about how you're not sure that this,
like you don't want to kind of bank on like
this being the thing forever.
Caitlin Murray (33:46):
Yeah. Well, I think social media is just such a
it's like the wild West, you know, like there it's
lawless out here on social media. That's sort of what
I what I mean when I was saying that I
want to build a business that's like sustainable on its
own without relying on me being on Instagram all day
every day, which is something that I enjoy doing, but
(34:08):
I want to just be able to do it just
for enjoyment eventually. So in that sense that it's not
like selling somebody else's product to rely on the way
that you're monetizing it, Because if that's what you're doing,
then you need to be reliant on social media, right,
You're totally reliant on your audience and these brand deals
coming to you. But if you build your own thing
and you have your own product and you're able to.
(34:30):
You do still want to obviously use your network or
your social media network to put it out there and
advertise for yourself, but that it would be like successful independently.
Emily Tisch Sussman (34:42):
I also want to talk a little bit more about
your use of humor in dark times. It's something that
obviously has come from a very personal place for you,
and you've been quite successful at it. And I think
a lot of people right now are trying to figure out,
like feel like they're in a dark time. I feel
like I'm in a dark time. How do we use
humor or how do we access it? How do we
feel like it's acceptable to use? Yeah, it's funny. I
(35:05):
mean like I always feel like it's acceptable to use,
but not everybody feels that way, which I've learned over
the last week or so, Like you can't just some
people are just not always ready for a joke or whatever.
I mean within your personal circles and stuff. I think
it's like.
Caitlin Murray (35:20):
You just let it fly, but there has to be
a certain part of you if you want to be
if you want to go without route, and that's like
the person that you represent that has to stop fucking
caring about what everybody thinks about what you're going to
say all of the time. You just have to really
follow what's right for you and use it when it
feels like you're ready to. I did feel, like I said,
(35:40):
there was a period of time where I didn't feel
too funny about everything, but I did. I did get
back into that. I did tap back into that, and
I just I laugh and I joke, and I say,
it's quite the defense mechanism that I use to shield
myself from the real feelings. But I don't. I really
do like to get deep about real feelings and stuff too.
And I just think it's important to be able to laugh.
(36:02):
And who doesn't want to laugh? Right? It's just feels
so good totally.
Emily Tisch Sussman (36:06):
What is something we look back at all this What
is something that at the time you thought it can
be the big thing, or can be something else that
you thought was really a negative, and now in retrospect
you see it as having really launched you into the
person that you are now.
Caitlin Murray (36:22):
I think that when you're younger and before, maybe like
things happened to you that allow you to have less
fucks to give or something like that, you feel like
you have you put a wall up and you don't
show your vulnerable sides, and it's hard to like maybe
a peer, it's not weak, but it may maybe in
(36:43):
your mind feels like it's it would appear weak to
be honest about your weaknesses and your vulnerabilities. And that
I've really found, especially since starting my social media account,
that talking about that stuff and where I feel like
I have shortcomings and weaknesses or shame and stuff like
(37:04):
that has really been the thing that's attracted people probably
the most to me and my page, because I feel
like I can be honest about my challenges and I'm
okay with that, and I think that that's just like
breaking down walls makes everybody feel better and that they
(37:25):
can say how they really feel and not be judged
and or feel censored and just to be themselves.
Emily Tisch Sussman (37:33):
You know, they're so great. I think I told you
to Scalen. But when I was setting out to do
this podcast, I thought I needed an agent, so I went.
I met with like every agency, and they would put me
in the news division because they thought I was news
and the like. But you're not trying to be a
cable news host, so actually we don't know what to
do with you. And I was like no, I'm trying
to not be news. Yeah, and then I really didn't
(37:53):
know what to do with me because I know platform
that wasn't news. And in the process of everybody rejecting me,
I was like, Okay, actually I'm going to build it myself. Yeah,
like I'm going to do it myself because if they
can't see the vision, then actually I don't need them.
Caitlin Murray (38:06):
Yeah. And I think that like we sort of doubt
ourselves all of the time, like, oh, I don't know
what I'm doing, I can't do this like every but
people who do this know what they're doing or like
they've done it before. They're getting professional advice and that
kind of thing. And the really like the real truth
is is that nobody really knows what they're doing at all.
And if they think that they do, they they're probably wrong.
(38:28):
You know. They probably are changing paths like left and
right along the way. It's like you just have to
go out and start and sort of figure it out
for yourself. No one's coming to save you. You got
to do it yourself. But totally thank you.
Emily Tisch Sussman (38:42):
Caitlyn's been so great.
Caitlin Murray (38:43):
Yeah, thanks guys, good to see you. Emily.
Emily Tisch Sussman (38:49):
Caitlyn and her family live here on the East Coast,
and in between all the kids' activities, mom duties and
social media fame, she has also had time to host
a podcast. You can listen to her show, Big Time
Adulting anywhere you get podcasts. Plus, there's a very special
episode with yours truly, so be sure to give it
a listen. You can follow Caitlin on Instagram and TikTok
(39:11):
at Big Time Adulting talk to You next Week. Thanks
for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you
made it this far, you're a true Pivoter, so thanks for.
Caitlin Murray (39:22):
Being part of this community.
Emily Tisch Sussman (39:24):
I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you did
leave us a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends
about us. To learn more about our guests, follow us
on Instagram at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up
for our newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the
scenes content, or on our website She Pivots the Podcast
Talk to You Next Week special thanks to the she
(39:47):
Pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edavelosic, Associate producer and social
media connoisseur, Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and
Logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak An audio editor and mixer Nina
Pollock
Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Caitlin Murray this week.
Emily Tisch Sussman (00:33):
I'm delighted to have Kaitlin Murray on the show, though
most of you know her by her Instagram handle Big
Time Adulting. I first found Caitlin's account during the pandemic
when I felt like I was losing my mind. Her
content was exactly what I needed to know that I
wasn't alone. When I found out that she had an
(00:53):
amazing pivot story, I knew I wanted to have her
on the show. Plus, she is hilarious many of us moms.
Caitlyn left her job from Eternity Leave, planning to ease
back in slowly after having her third baby. After all,
she had worked when she had the first two. But
then everything changed when her oldest was diagnosed with leukemia
(01:14):
and she knew she needed to pivot to stay home
full time amidst all of the pain. Caitlyn began writing.
From there, she decided to start sharing her life online.
Now with over a million followers, Caitlyn has redefined what
success means to her several times over, and I can't
wait for you all to hear her story and become
as obsessed with her as I am enjoy.
Caitlin Murray (01:41):
My name is Caitlin Murray and I am a content creator,
a writer, and a mom.
Emily Tisch Sussman (01:48):
Okay, so we are going to go in chronologic orders.
We're going to back up. We're going to go little Caitlin.
Oh wow, Yeah, we're like really gonna go take me
back and yeah, yeah, we're really going going back. What
did you like get me in the headspace? Where are
you in your sibling order? Like, what did you think
you were going to be when you grew up?
Caitlin Murray (02:09):
I was the second of two children. I have one
older brother. I am from Massachusetts. I like to say
I am from southeastern Massachusetts. I've lived like all over
the south shore of Massachusetts. I grew up on Cape
Cod a little bit. We started just being there in
the summers. Then my family moved to our house that
we spent summers in, and I went to school on
(02:32):
Cape Cod full time. And then my parents separated when
I was in like the eighth grade, and I went
to boarding school, and then my parents moved off of
the Cape to two different towns, one easton one in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
So that's like where I'm from. And my brother and
(02:53):
my family all live in Massachusetts. Still and I live
in New York, and my childhood was it was great,
pretty average, except for my parents' separation and divorce that
iube was pretty devastating for me and kind of felt
like it came out of nowhere.
Emily Tisch Sussman (03:09):
I think, especially with three kids, I more and more
begin to think that a sibling birth order is so formative.
Do you think it was for you or do you
think any of those experiences were so much more formative
for you.
Caitlin Murray (03:23):
It's so funny because in my house, with my nuclear
family here now, I feel like my kids are like
to a te birth order stereotypical. But in my house
growing up, it was different. My brother was more of
like the rule breaker, sort of rebel between the two
(03:44):
of us, and then I was definitely, I think, just
maybe as a reaction to that, like a more people
pleaser type kiddo, sort of stayed between the lines. If
you can imagine, never got in trouble played by the
book What did you think you were going to be
when you I mean, what didn't I think I was
going to be when I grew up. I was going
to be maybe like an actress. I was going to
(04:06):
be the president. I was going to be a teacher,
a million things. You know, I didn't really have any
hard and fast visions, but yeah, I'm none of those
things now.
Emily Tisch Sussman (04:19):
So you were pretty well rounded.
Caitlin Murray (04:21):
I suppose thank you for saying that. Yeah, I did
have a variety of interests. I still do. I still
really do.
Emily Tisch Sussman (04:30):
Early on, Caitlyn didn't put much weight on her career.
She thought she'd get married, have kids, and stay home,
and things started to fall into place when she met
her husband, Michael.
Caitlin Murray (04:42):
I met my husband in college. We went to Middlebury
up in Vermont. He was from New York, and so
after graduation we were together, but like, our relationship was
a rocky place at that time. We were just up
and down and we were doing a lot of some
breaking up and making up and thing. But I just
wanted like a new experience and a couple of friends,
(05:04):
and I decided to move to New York. And the
rest is kind of history, because my husband and I
did end up blocking it in like several years later,
after exploring if we were really right for each other
or not. And I've been in New York ever since.
You guys are still together.
Emily Tisch Sussman (05:21):
I feel like people don't generally think those are going
to work out those relationships that are like up and down.
Did you think that it was not going to work out?
Caitlin Murray (05:29):
I think that there was a period of time in
my early twenties after graduation that I wasn't sure. But
there was like a pretty distinctive breakup that we ended
up when when we got back together, felt very different
and like our relationship had turned our real corner in
terms of like its maturity level. And at that point
(05:50):
I knew that he would be the one. But when
we first started dating, which was a scandal because I
had a boyfriend at the time, he was such a
good friend of mine. He was like my best friend
at the time, and I thought this guy could easily
be my husband because I just enjoy him so much.
I still feel that way.
Emily Tisch Sussman (06:09):
What do you think felt different when you guys got
back together, Like what had changed?
Caitlin Murray (06:14):
Yeah, you know, we were both from parents who whose
marriages were not successful, so I think that we had
a lot of reservations about, you know, being super realistic
about who was right for us and making sure of
that before deciding to actually get married, and was almost
(06:37):
like quite cynical about that selection process. I mean, I
feel like even then I was I sort of understood
marriages about finding the person that drives you the least crazy,
Like they're going to still drive you crazy, because everyone's
going to drive you crazy, but the person who will
like not make you be crazy yere, And so I
(06:59):
think I went into it was like a really solid
understanding that marriage is hard.
Emily Tisch Sussman (07:06):
Yeah, that's totally fair. And how much did you think
about having kids? How many kids? Like, how central was
that to your thinking about what your life was going
to look like? And did you make decisions around it.
Caitlin Murray (07:19):
I always wanted three kids because I had only one brother,
and I always was super curious as to what a
family of three or more would look like. I think
I always wished I had one more sibling or that
kind of thing, and just to see what that family
dynamic would be like. So it was sort of this
goal in my mind to get to three. But holy shit,
(07:40):
after I had won, I was like, to do this,
it's crazy. I didn't know this was going to be
so hard, And so that was a real slap in
the face. Eye opener. And my husband's cousin would say,
kids are like crack. You have one and then you
kind of want to have another, even though it's like
for you.
Emily Tisch Sussman (08:04):
What were you doing professionally at the time. Did you
feel like that was a real focus for you, equally
to trying to figure out how to have three kids.
Caitlin Murray (08:12):
Professionally At that time, before having kids and while dating
and at the beginning of my marriage, I was working
or actually I stopped working at this place right before
I got married, or as around the time I got engaged,
because I was working for this company that raised money
for charities based out of Ireland, and all of the
(08:33):
way that we did that was through hosting large events,
and all of the events and opportunities to entertain donors
and be at parties all of the time and be
traveling to other parties in different places was never going
to be conducive to a mother of young children. So
I was kind of like, I got to wrap this
up and find a job that is going to be
(08:56):
a little bit more friendly to motherhood because I really
knew that I wanted kids, and I kind of figured
like I would go like a very vanilla traditional path
about it, where I was like, I'll get married and
then I'll wait a year, and then I'll start trying
to have kids, and I'll have a kid, and then
all have another kid two years after that, and but
like I had it all planned out in my mind
what I thought was going to be, which is of
(09:18):
course never how it all turns out.
Emily Tisch Sussman (09:21):
So what you're describing right now, I think is a
lot of what we talk about, which is changing your
version of success. Yes, that your version of success in
that job, it sounds like, was being successful in the
metrics of the job, raising money, putting on a bends,
being present, all of that, and as your personal life evolved,
(09:42):
like as your personal life changed, it was no longer
meeting your your metric of success.
Caitlin Murray (09:47):
Yeah, I mean in that sense, I will say quite
honestly that I don't think I ever took that career
path of mine and even the job that I got
after that to continue working to too seriously, because in
my mind I was going to become probably a stay
at home mom. So when I became pregnant with my
(10:09):
first child, in my mind, I was like, that's it,
I'm going to become a stay at home mom. I've
been I've been ready for this, I've been this is
what I've been thinking I wanted to do, And then
when the baby came, I was like, holy shit, I
want to go back to the office. This is so hard,
you know. I was so jealous of my husband, who
would be able to like skip out the front door
(10:30):
and go get a coffee and like go to the
bathroom by himself and eat lunch and shit like that.
And I was like, oh my god, this like is
so different from what I imagined it would be. I
can't even begin to describe how duped I feel right now, honestly.
And I had this conversation with my boss before I
(10:52):
left to have the baby, and I was really honest
and I said, you know, I don't want to trick
you into thinking that I'm going to come back after
a maternity leave or something. And she was like, Kaitlyn,
take your maternity leave, and if you decide at the
end of that that you don't want to come back,
I will be totally okay with that, but you might
feel differently, like just take my word for it. And
she was like, we can restructure your like let you
(11:16):
come in on a part time basis. And that's what
I actually ended up doing. I went to down just
three days a week in the office, and I was
so grateful for her for leaving that option open for me.
That I didn't anticipate wanting to use. And it was
a real like a mental saving grace for me to
have that. By the time, like I went back on
(11:38):
maternity leave, I thought, like you would think I would
just be like crying, like, oh my god, I can't
leave my baby. I was skipping down my walkway to
get out the door to work. Now. Granted, like I knew,
I was also being part time and I would have
time home with the baby, so I was very lucky
to have that set of circumstances, but I was really
shocked to feel the way that I felt. It was
(12:00):
a definitely like turned my world upside down moment. So
after I left that job that was like the fast
paced party life, and I went to work in a
different fundraising capacity but in a school, and I was
dealing with high and neet worse individuals doing fundraising there,
and it was a very like much more structured like
(12:24):
work life friendly environment. It was not these lavish party situations.
It was very PG everything, PGPC everything, and it was
great for like the purpose that it served at that
time of my life. But I was not passionate about
where I was or what I was doing, and there
came a point in time, but something's happened in my
(12:44):
life that made it very clear that I needed to
be more at home.
Emily Tisch Sussman (12:51):
When we come back, we hear how Caitlin's life was
turned upside down in a blink of an eye. After
finally finding her footing back at work, Caitlin received news
(13:11):
that no mother wants to hear.
Caitlin Murray (13:14):
So I had my first two while I was working there,
when my oldest was three and my middle at the time,
who was my youngest, was only one. My oldest was
diagnosed with leukemia and that ended up obviously turning my
whole world upside down. And the place where I worked
was wonderful about that situation for me, and they allowed
(13:38):
me to kind of like restructure my job however I
wanted it to be at the time working from home
as much as I needed or wanted indefinitely. And this
was well before the pandemic, and working from home was
like not as normalized as it is now, which was
so nice. But this was a long process. My son
was in treatment for over three years, and during time
(14:00):
I also became pregnant with our third child, and he
was born in May of twenty nineteen, and at that time,
my oldest who was still in treatment, was well enough
to go back to school, but was still super fragile
and would have to go to the hospital right away
if he had a fever because he had a port
in his chest, and I really needed to be readily
(14:22):
available and on call, and I couldn't be commuting into
the city. We were living out in the suburbs at
that time. We still live out in the verbs, but
I needed to be there immediately if he were to
get sick, and especially if he had become febrile. So
I took that as my queue to exit the structured
working world as it were. And that was really hard.
(14:44):
Even though I wasn't like super dedicated to my job
and that career per se, it was something that was
mine that was not about being a mom, and it
was like this wonderful escape for me to just be
working and doing something outside of my role as mom
and caregiver. And to give that up felt like I
was leaving this whole like part of my identity for
(15:07):
grabs or just like a side and giving, you know,
sort of giving up on that part of me. But
it and that's where that whole redefinition of success really
came into play, and I had to really focus on
the fact that my most important and valued place at
that time was with my kids. And you know, it
was my honor to be there for my son when
he was sick, and I would do it a thousand
(15:29):
million times over. But for me personally, it did feel
like I was making a deeper sacrifice of myself because
even though that job wasn't what I wanted, I knew
I wanted more personally for like a deeper sense of fulfillment.
Emily Tisch Sussman (15:45):
You talk about this identity shift like that you can
both things can be true. You can want to be
home with your kids and you had always wanted it,
and you can be sad about that loss of identity
for yourself. To me, like, I'm guessing this, but your
identity probably became your external identity. Probably became even more
(16:06):
merged with your family life than an average mom who
would step away from her and be with her kids,
because you became like the mom of the kid with cancer. Yeah,
I was fully part of who I was and what
I had to be doing at the time. And this
is where the huge part that I didn't expect and
didn't envision came fully into play in my life was,
which was that I didn't want to be the full
(16:29):
time stay at home mom. Like but this is where
women have such a get the short end of the
stick all of the time, because men don't have to
feel that guilt about not being there for and with
the kids, Like it is just a given that they
will be working. It's always a given for them, and
there's no question of who's going to if they're going
to be the ones to stay home, or if you're
going to get help or what it's it's always on
(16:51):
what's what is the woman going to do right? And
there's always.
Caitlin Murray (16:55):
Something that you have to set aside in any scenario.
I mean, unless you were like just fully in love
with being home with your kids and it works for
your family and the financial structure of your family, then
I'm like, oh my god, you're so lucky that you
don't have to feel the torment of being there but
kind of not wanting to be there, but knowing that
it's important for you to be there and that it's
(17:17):
a valuable job and the hardest job and all of that.
Emily Tisch Sussman (17:23):
To sort through her complicated emotions around it all, Caitlin
turned to writing and started a blog.
Caitlin Murray (17:30):
At the beginning, it definitely felt really heavy, and it
was heavy. There were a period of months where I
honestly just like did not really feel like joking or
laughing or didn't feel like I was able to access
a lot of joy at that time. But what I
had started doing fairly early on in my son's treatment
process was writing to family and friends about not just
(17:53):
like updates, but something more anecdotal, and I would talk
about our lives altogether, what I was going through mentally
as a mom at that time, and I was able
to touch on and tap into humor there and really
like let some stuff rip in my writing. That felt
so good to be able to say, because I felt
(18:15):
like I was still honoring, like the hard parts of
what we were going through and then able to just
get a little release and take the edge off a
little bit with the humor. And little by little I
continued to really tap into that and lean on it
a lot as a coping mechanism for what we were
going through. And it's one of those things where now
(18:35):
on my Instagram account, all I do is make fun
of kids and the challenges and the struggles of what
it really is like being a parent. And it's not
about the cancer stuff like it's about the every day,
the mundane. It's stuff that I felt from the very
beginning of becoming a mom. But I didn't know that
it was like okay to talk about that stuff until
(18:58):
I had started going through this difficult situation with my son,
and I got through that. And I don't know if
this is an expletive free podcast, but today it's not
because I really didn't give a fuck about what anyone
felt or thought or said about what I had to
say about what it was like to be a mom,
and that at that time, because I was really in
the trenches and I knew my worth and my value
(19:22):
as a mom, I had a lot of conviction in that.
Emily Tisch Sussman (19:25):
Going through those really tough moments. Obviously you would never
wish it upon anybody, but going through tough moments like
that really does make you tougher to criticism because you
really truly give a fuck less what people think and
like how you process it, because you're like I made it,
like I made it through or I'm making it right now,
and so I'm really uninterested in how you judge me
(19:46):
in it.
Caitlin Murray (19:48):
Yeah, it's very freeing in a lot of ways of
so many things, you know, in a way that I
can't say that I always am good about this, but
not getting bogged down as much by little things, or
really appreciating and finding a ton of gratitude in the
little things, which goes along with I think the like
not caring about the things that aren't that important, such
(20:10):
as someone else's opinion of you when it's not hurtful,
you know, like when you're not like hurting anyone or
doing something like what does it matter what you think?
I'm saying how I feel and I'm talking about my experience.
You know, I'm not telling you how you need to feel.
Emily Tisch Sussman (20:26):
And she does this masterfully on her Instagram account. She
showcases what's real and honest in a way that feels
both deeply unique and completely relatable. After the break, we
dive into how and why Caitlyn decided to transition her
blog over to social media. Welcome back to the show.
(20:53):
After a few years of blogging, Caitlyn found her way
to social media in a way might not expect through
the publishing industry.
Caitlin Murray (21:02):
And that's when I actually ended up getting started with
my Instagram account, which took me to a whole new
career path in a wonderful way that was sort of
born out of this really difficult experience that I was
going through. But all this to say that, like, your
life can totally change, and there's so much room for
(21:24):
different careers and endeavors that you may never have expected
that are completely outside of what you've been trained to
do or have done throughout your life.
Emily Tisch Sussman (21:34):
So when you made the transition, were people sending your
blog around?
Caitlin Murray (21:38):
Like?
Emily Tisch Sussman (21:38):
Did your blog start to go around as a public
platform and then you transitioned it to an Instagram account?
And why not use your name? When you started a bit?
Caitlin Murray (21:46):
It did go around, but like very minimally, just like
probably from a family friend network perspective, like it was
definitely not reaching far and wide. And that is sort
of what ended up propelling me to start my Instagram
act out because a woman who lives in my town,
who worked in the editing world for years, had seen
(22:07):
it and asked if I would be interested in her
showing it to her publisher, and I was like, this
would be wonderful. I love writing, And the publisher sort
of came back and was like, this writing is fine,
She's fine, But like, this woman has no platform we're
not going to give her a fucking book deal, you know,
like scram And so then I kind of realized how
that world works, and I was thinking, maybe I should
(22:29):
take my show on the road, get on social media,
and see if I can build a platform. So that's
how I got that part started. And yeah, so the
blogging and the emailing of our experience was not the
thing that gained me an audience. Yeah.
Emily Tisch Sussman (22:45):
So when you started the account really to be able
to give herself a platform for the blog to make
it a book, did you start it in the same space, like,
in the same headspace that you were saying, I'm trying
to use humor to get through this really hard cancer
moment because your content now is not related to it.
So did it evolve or was it always focused more
(23:06):
on your experience in the every day Yeah?
Caitlin Murray (23:09):
I think. And I didn't answer the part you asked,
why didn't I use my name? I had gone back
and forth on that. I'm not sure why I didn't.
Sometimes I wish that I did use my name, but
I had just named my blog Big Time Adulting, even
when I was just sending it to family and friends,
and I just stuck with it. I just thought that
some of the other mom accounts that I had seen
on Instagram had like names, not their name, but like
(23:33):
fucking names I don't know whatever. So this was my
name and that's what I went with and here we are.
But yeah, the beginning, I wasn't quite sure about like
what and how I was going to be sharing. But
I think that I knew that I had a lot
on my mind about just the day to day stuff,
and that I was thinking all of these funny things
(23:56):
about what my days are like and all the craziness
that goes on in a day with little kids, and
how easy it would be to make fun of them,
and that people needed to know that kids should be
made fun of more.
Emily Tisch Sussman (24:10):
Yeah, I mean, I really can't be in to tell
you how many times my friend sent me your content
and they're like, Emily, this thing that you've been like
privately complaining to us about our in our text chain,
like she's actually saying it out loud. And I think
that you gave a lot of us like a permission
unlock to say yes, I can be like it's the
both things, like yes, I could be happy that I
(24:32):
have these kids and this is really hard and it's
okay for me to complain about it.
Caitlin Murray (24:37):
Yeah, It's one of those things that you don't feel
is okay to say when you first become a mom,
because there's so much ingrained in us about what being
a good mom looks like. And a lot of that
I think goes back to like some deep seated, like
patriarchal trauma that we have about like being a good
(24:57):
wife and a mother and all that shit. And there's
a lot of martyrdom in motherhood, you know, things that
we say or do or don't do and kind of
are willing to die on the proverbial cross for that
are not really serving us. And so think that like
when you're able to talk about this stuff, especially through
(25:18):
like a humorous lens, because that always gives it, like
it's much more palatable for the masses when you make
it funny, you know that it breaks down a lot
of those walls that we feel like we have up
as moms, that we have to present a certain way
or look a certain way as a mother or else
you're a bad mom. And that's just not true, you know,
because there's so much going on behind the scenes and
(25:40):
behind the curtains that we're all experiencing and dealing with
them or just thinking that we suck at this or whatever,
and I was like, you know, I'm just going to
put it out there and say all the things that
I suck yet to everybody, for anyone who wants to hear.
Emily Tisch Sussman (25:53):
It didn't take long for Caitlin's account to catch on
and go viral during COVID. As moms everywhere, we're looking
for anyone to talk honestly about what parenting was truly like,
and Caitlin filled that gap in the market flawlessly.
Caitlin Murray (26:06):
I did have a lot of growth during COVID because
I think that there was actually it was a highly
relatable situation for me because we had done so much
isolating and so much staying at home with our son
while he was sick that I had a lot of
this material was just stuff that I had been feeling
and thinking along the way while I was cooped up
(26:27):
with my kids. That was a completely not new situation
for me at that point, and I was like, I've
got material for days on this, and then it just
became it was super relatable to the masses at that
point too, So a lot of that stuff did go
pretty viral. Good morning. Welcome back to the Shit Show.
I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time Adulting, live from one
(26:47):
of the coronavirus hotspots in the nation. We'll come back
to the shit Show. I'm Kaitlyn Murray with Big Time
deuilting live here from the corner of my bedroom where
I'm hiding from my children this week.
Emily Tisch Sussman (26:58):
Had you been thinking as you create it like that
you were kind of tracking growth, like, were you tracking trends?
Were you really conscious about it or it was just
sort of a brain dump spot for you.
Caitlin Murray (27:10):
I think a little of BOLF because I knew that
I had to be sort of true to myself and
authentic in my messaging if I wanted to be sustainable
and consistent with it, because like you know, I just
wanted to be able to show up every day like
as I was I could, you know, I go on
there no makeup, like woke up first thing looking like
death warmed over and ready to just you know, diarrhea
(27:33):
of the mouth, whatever it is that's at the top
of my mind about the kids and the things that
are happening in my house. So I knew that I
had to be able to like make that happen every day.
But part of that is because like the algorithm response
to consistent, regular output of content, and that I was like,
I can do that, but I just have to be
able to show up as I am.
Emily Tisch Sussman (27:53):
Was there one particular or a couple particular that really
went viral and you're like, Okay, we've hit something here.
Caitlin Murray (27:58):
I think the first one that went viral was a
video of me dancing with Luky strapped to the front
of me to back that ass up in our kitchen,
and it was like I had sunglasses on, he had
sunglasses on, type saying, and the floor was covered in
like markers and stuff. And I think it just was like,
I don't know, if something it hit, it got shared
(28:19):
by somebody who had a big account, and then it
went all over. And then after that it was like
drips and drabs of things that like performed well, like
decent engagement, and then things that were like whoa that
really got shared far and wide, And a few of
those things were at the beginning of COVID for sure.
But yeah, it's been a pretty like steady growth process throughout.
(28:43):
I will say I did see some like immediate rewards
within the first maybe five to eight months, I probably
had like twenty thousand followers or something, and I was like, wow,
that's growth. I can't believe I have twenty thousand followers
on Instagram from spewing this shit in my kitchen, you know.
Emily Tisch Sussman (29:03):
And so how do you think now about your parameters?
Like how do you structure your work? How do you
think about your parameters around your work and your home?
Like you're still you still have three pretty young kids.
It takes a lot of time, but you're very successful.
Caitlin Murray (29:20):
Well thanks. I feel like a chicken with my head
cut off, like all of the time pretty much. I
don't have a ton of help, Like I only have
my babysitter. I'm very particular about like how much people
how much I want other people around, Like I really
prefer to be alone. I have a babysitter a couple
afternoons a week pretty much, and then if needed, when
(29:42):
I have like an event or something like that, I
call it auxiliaries or call her back in or to
get more help. But it is become a lot to
handle because about a year and a half ago, I
started taking my content and my work like much more
seriously as a business, which was sort of part of
the plan. I was sort of always playing a long
(30:02):
game to wait till I got a certain size of
an audience to start focusing more on the business aspect
of what I was doing. I never wanted to be
like an influencer in the very traditional sense, like kind
of selling other products or doing a lot of brand
deals and that kind of thing. I do some of
that stuff, and it's great to monetize all the work
(30:25):
that I put into this, which is it's really cool
to be able to do that, but that's not like
my long term goal. So I was always sort of
playing a long game, and I had the privilege to
do that because my husband was always the breadwinner and
he was able to support us while I was kind
of doing this as like a let's see what happens
(30:46):
type thing. But now it's become a full on business
and a lot of work, and it's my life is
super busy and crazy, but I feel like every mom's
life is super busy and crazy, so I'm just like
everybody else. And to be honest, I shouldn't even say that,
because I really adore being able to do what I'm doing.
(31:07):
It feels like so much fun, it's so much fun.
What do you think your version of success is? Right now?
That's such a good question. I keep like changing my
mind on that. I think that what I have always
felt is when I started this that I truly did
want to monetize it in a very meaningful way, like
at the beginning. But I didn't do anything to monetize
(31:29):
it for quite a while. But I think that that's
also one of those things it's like important to say.
Even though I didn't know what would happen, it was
sort of like a little bit like throwing shit against
the wall to see what sticks at first, and what
is this and what am I doing? I did feel
deep down that I wanted to turn it into something
big and I wanted it to be successful monetarily, and
(31:50):
I still feel that way, And I feel like women
don't always say that that they're like hoping to make
a lot of money what they're doing right and what
they're putting their time and effort into. So that was
always definitely a goal for me. My version of success,
I think, would be to build a business, a real
substantial business of my own, and make it successful through
(32:15):
using my audience, you know, as a consumer. For whatever
that is. It has to be something that's like definitely
really meaningful to me that I'm going to be willing
to talk about and sell and that kind of thing.
So I haven't quite figured. There's a lot of like
balls in the air and ideas and irons and the fire.
So it's kind of waiting and narrowing some things down.
Emily Tisch Sussman (32:38):
Do you come back to that book idea now that
you actually did build the audience?
Caitlin Murray (32:42):
So I am writing a book right now. Also, I
have a book deal and I have another year to
finish it, But I like have not talked about it
that much because I don't want to get sick of
hearing myself talk about it. But the book that I
am writing right now is a collection of short stories,
which is just perfect for me, and I feel like
it's also really great for my audience, who are you know,
(33:03):
pretty much all moms that don't have a lot of
time necessarily to sit and read a huge book, and
that they can take these little, like bite sized stories
and read one before bed or something like that. But yeah,
I think I just felt that during the process of
writing to my friends and family about what was going
on with my son, that I was super therapeutic and
(33:25):
I was finding a ton of joy and outlet in
that process, and that I loved doing it and thought
that I would love to one day maybe write a
book if I were given the opportunity.
Emily Tisch Sussman (33:36):
We had chatted a little while ago and you had
said something to me about how you're not sure that this,
like you don't want to kind of bank on like
this being the thing forever.
Caitlin Murray (33:46):
Yeah. Well, I think social media is just such a
it's like the wild West, you know, like there it's
lawless out here on social media. That's sort of what
I what I mean when I was saying that I
want to build a business that's like sustainable on its
own without relying on me being on Instagram all day
every day, which is something that I enjoy doing, but
(34:08):
I want to just be able to do it just
for enjoyment eventually. So in that sense that it's not
like selling somebody else's product to rely on the way
that you're monetizing it, Because if that's what you're doing,
then you need to be reliant on social media, right,
You're totally reliant on your audience and these brand deals
coming to you. But if you build your own thing
and you have your own product and you're able to.
(34:30):
You do still want to obviously use your network or
your social media network to put it out there and
advertise for yourself, but that it would be like successful independently.
Emily Tisch Sussman (34:42):
I also want to talk a little bit more about
your use of humor in dark times. It's something that
obviously has come from a very personal place for you,
and you've been quite successful at it. And I think
a lot of people right now are trying to figure out,
like feel like they're in a dark time. I feel
like I'm in a dark time. How do we use
humor or how do we access it? How do we
feel like it's acceptable to use? Yeah, it's funny. I
(35:05):
mean like I always feel like it's acceptable to use,
but not everybody feels that way, which I've learned over
the last week or so, Like you can't just some
people are just not always ready for a joke or whatever.
I mean within your personal circles and stuff. I think
it's like.
Caitlin Murray (35:20):
You just let it fly, but there has to be
a certain part of you if you want to be
if you want to go without route, and that's like
the person that you represent that has to stop fucking
caring about what everybody thinks about what you're going to
say all of the time. You just have to really
follow what's right for you and use it when it
feels like you're ready to. I did feel, like I said,
(35:40):
there was a period of time where I didn't feel
too funny about everything, but I did. I did get
back into that. I did tap back into that, and
I just I laugh and I joke, and I say,
it's quite the defense mechanism that I use to shield
myself from the real feelings. But I don't. I really
do like to get deep about real feelings and stuff too.
And I just think it's important to be able to laugh.
(36:02):
And who doesn't want to laugh? Right? It's just feels
so good totally.
Emily Tisch Sussman (36:06):
What is something we look back at all this What
is something that at the time you thought it can
be the big thing, or can be something else that
you thought was really a negative, and now in retrospect
you see it as having really launched you into the
person that you are now.
Caitlin Murray (36:22):
I think that when you're younger and before, maybe like
things happened to you that allow you to have less
fucks to give or something like that, you feel like
you have you put a wall up and you don't
show your vulnerable sides, and it's hard to like maybe
a peer, it's not weak, but it may maybe in
(36:43):
your mind feels like it's it would appear weak to
be honest about your weaknesses and your vulnerabilities. And that
I've really found, especially since starting my social media account,
that talking about that stuff and where I feel like
I have shortcomings and weaknesses or shame and stuff like
(37:04):
that has really been the thing that's attracted people probably
the most to me and my page, because I feel
like I can be honest about my challenges and I'm
okay with that, and I think that that's just like
breaking down walls makes everybody feel better and that they
(37:25):
can say how they really feel and not be judged
and or feel censored and just to be themselves.
Emily Tisch Sussman (37:33):
You know, they're so great. I think I told you
to Scalen. But when I was setting out to do
this podcast, I thought I needed an agent, so I went.
I met with like every agency, and they would put me
in the news division because they thought I was news
and the like. But you're not trying to be a
cable news host, so actually we don't know what to
do with you. And I was like no, I'm trying
to not be news. Yeah, and then I really didn't
(37:53):
know what to do with me because I know platform
that wasn't news. And in the process of everybody rejecting me,
I was like, Okay, actually I'm going to build it myself. Yeah,
like I'm going to do it myself because if they
can't see the vision, then actually I don't need them.
Caitlin Murray (38:06):
Yeah. And I think that like we sort of doubt
ourselves all of the time, like, oh, I don't know
what I'm doing, I can't do this like every but
people who do this know what they're doing or like
they've done it before. They're getting professional advice and that
kind of thing. And the really like the real truth
is is that nobody really knows what they're doing at all.
And if they think that they do, they they're probably wrong.
(38:28):
You know. They probably are changing paths like left and
right along the way. It's like you just have to
go out and start and sort of figure it out
for yourself. No one's coming to save you. You got
to do it yourself. But totally thank you.
Emily Tisch Sussman (38:42):
Caitlyn's been so great.
Caitlin Murray (38:43):
Yeah, thanks guys, good to see you. Emily.
Emily Tisch Sussman (38:49):
Caitlyn and her family live here on the East Coast,
and in between all the kids' activities, mom duties and
social media fame, she has also had time to host
a podcast. You can listen to her show, Big Time
Adulting anywhere you get podcasts. Plus, there's a very special
episode with yours truly, so be sure to give it
a listen. You can follow Caitlin on Instagram and TikTok
(39:11):
at Big Time Adulting talk to You next Week. Thanks
for listening to this episode of She Pivots. If you
made it this far, you're a true Pivoter, so thanks for.
Caitlin Murray (39:22):
Being part of this community.
Emily Tisch Sussman (39:24):
I hope you enjoyed this episode, and if you did
leave us a rating, please be nice. Tell your friends
about us. To learn more about our guests, follow us
on Instagram at she Pivots the Podcast, or sign up
for our newsletter where you can get exclusive behind the
scenes content, or on our website She Pivots the Podcast
Talk to You Next Week special thanks to the she
(39:47):
Pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edavelosic, Associate producer and social
media connoisseur, Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and
Logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak An audio editor and mixer Nina
Pollock
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