September 25, 2024 • 40 mins
Emily left her full-time career in politics several years ago, pivoting after having three kids in three years. But as many of our guests know, pivots can be more of a blurred line than we once thought. With everything that’s on the line in the upcoming presidential election, especially for women and moms, Emily is dipping her toe back in politics, joining the board of Swing Left. As a suburban swing district mom, Emily is now the person she was always trying to reach in her political career - and now she can bring that perspective directly to Swing Left. And who better to talk with about everything election-related than the Executive Director of Swing Left, Yasmin Radjy, who made her own pivot back into politics! In this timely episode of She Pivots, Yasmin shares how Swing Left is moving the needle in the upcoming election and the high-impact tools at our disposal to make a difference.
She Pivots was created by host Emily Tisch Sussman to highlight women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success. To learn more about Yasmin, follow us on Instagram @ShePivotsThePodcast or visit shepivotsthepodcast.com.
Support the show: https://www.shepivotsthepodcast.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Yasmin Raji and I'm
the executive director of Swing Left.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back to sheep Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman.
When I was planning this season, I wanted to make
sure she Pivots was a means for building connections. I
said during our season launch party that we're the generation
of women who build bridges and don't tear each other down,
and she pivots as a way to empower women to
look inward, define success for themselves and not by society standards.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
And it's working.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
We're seeing a substantial change in the way women think
about and talk about their lives and their careers. I'm
so excited to dig deeper into these pivotal moments through
these shorter, more conversational Candon convos this season. Let's jump
right in on today's Candon Convo. I'm so excited to
(00:57):
have the one and only Yasmin Raji. Today we're not
only diving into what is needed to win in this election,
but announcing that I am pivoting or reverse pivoting into politics.
I just couldn't stay away, and I'm so honored to
share that I'm now serving on the board of Swing.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Left for she's the executive director.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I wanted to come out of retirement from politics for
this election because it just feels like there's too much
at stake, and why specifically Swing Left. I mean, when
I was working in politics, I was so deep in
it that I was like in the machine.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And then I took.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
A pretty hard break, like a pretty hard step back
to start this show, she pivots just to be able
to have conversations and think about changing culture by uplifting
different kinds of stories. And then when I thought to myself,
how can I possibly engage again? I can't go back
into the machine, like I can't go back into the
deep depths of politics. I need to do something that
(01:53):
is an easier and more accessible lift for me. And
now I am the suburban swing district mom, and so
now I am the person that I was always trying
to reach. Swing Left felt like the perfect marriage of
those things. I used to be on the political side
and now I'm on the volunteer side. So I'm really
excited to get into this conversation with Yasmin.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I'm Yasmin Raji.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm executive director of Swing Left, a national organization that
engages volunteers and donors in the highest impact actions to
help Democrats win majorities.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Okay, so talk to me a little bit about Well, first,
let's give a little background. How do you and I
know each other? Like, if this is my pivot back
into politics, how do we know each other?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I actually was going to give the wrong answer, but
what I am now remembering is in twenty seventeen, I
was one of the co founders of an organization called
Resistant School, and we were flying by the seat of
our pants and we got an email from some extremely
important DC powerbroker named Emily Tish Sussman saying, do you
(03:03):
guys want to come to a cap action get together
with new resistance leaders? And we were like, oh my god,
people have paid attention to this thing that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And we flew.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I don't remember where I assumed DC, but I can't
really remember.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
No, No, it was California. I was in California.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, I think it was kind it's like a million
years ago. Yeah, that's right. And we got together in
a room and I had a little Moleskin notebook where
I think I wrote down every word of what anybody said,
because I was so fired up to be in this
room of all the people I had been engaging with
online actually getting together to think about how the ecosystem
(03:43):
could work together better. And you were the brain behind
that get together. And then I don't know that we
really build a relationship until I don't even remember what
the impetus was, maybe Planned Parenthood worl repro world, But anyway,
now it's sort of like one of those relationships where
I don't even remember quite where it began, but it
feels like it's always been a part of my life.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, I was remembering, that was exactly right.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
It was that after I worked at the Democratic thing
Tank that were the progressive thing tank that was considered
in twenty sixteen for like the Hillary Clinton administration.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
People called it like.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Quote the White House in waiting because everyone was like
getting themselves ready for the Clinton administration. And I had
my first kid in the middle of it, like in August,
so I was on maternity leave the whole fall when
we were like this time of twenty sixteen of the
Hillary Clinton election, and my first day back from maternity
leave was the Monday after the election. So like when
you thought everybody in America was just like crying at
(04:39):
work and crying on the subway. Like think about walking
into the quote White House and waiting where everyone's offices
were packed up to move into their transition offices, like
they had no unbelievable, like no one knew what their
job was supposed to be. Everyone It's been the last
three years getting ready for this point, and I had
just had my first kid. So I came back with
this like new mom energy and was like, I'm going
(04:59):
to prove to everyone that, like I'm the same worker.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I worked just as hard.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So where as everyone was just like sitting around crying,
I was like spinning circles around. I mean I think
in my head too, but I was like, I've got
to be productive, like I have to do something valuable.
And saw that all of these like quote resistance groups
people were like popping up all over the country, and
it was all these people who it was someone who
(05:24):
was like the smartest, most plugged in political person of
their friends and was like sending out like daily actions
you could do, And all of a sudden had an
email list of thirty five thousand people.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
That was very much the vie of that era.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, Like we had so many of those people, and
I was like, okay, well what can we do, Like
what a value add can we have here?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Like we're a think tank, we can provide people with information.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
And then the next step was like, well, a lot
of these people wanted to make them groups and like
make them stainable, make them continue. It's like, well, what
if we give them like sustainability training, like how to stay,
how to maintain an org? And so we put that together.
I remember you were there. I think Swing Left was there,
Indivisible was there?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Definitely, Yes, Women's March was there, A bunch of it
was maybe like thirty different groups. I remember I wrote
a briefing to myself about the group so I could
like understand.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
You know, it's one of those.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It was just it was a very exciting moment, and
it was truly like, you know, as someone who'd been
following so much of what was happening online but couldn't
tell like who's behind this thing, what's their strategy, what
are they doing? Why did they do this? I think
Andy Kim might have been there because he had started that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Andy Kim was there, Yeah, he had started Rise Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, So it is sort of funny. And in your
helping to organize the white women for Kamala Harris call,
a few of the women that were heavily involved were
some of the Women's March people who were in that room.
Andy Kim is now running for the US and he's
going to need a nextcent senator from New Jersey. And
you and I are coming full circle here, which I
(07:04):
know is sort of like previewing the purpose of this conversation,
but it does feel like it's a good reminder of
like there are some rooms and moments where you're surrounded
by people and you know it's special and you know
something's going to come of it, but you can't begin
to imagine sort of the seeds of relationships and good
trouble that are going to come from it. And that
was you created one of those rooms that has only
(07:26):
continued to bear fruits.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well that's so lovely, Okay. So I ended up leaving,
I had my second kid. I ended up going to
work for Swing Left in twenty eighteen and running the
National Celebrity Program, so placing celebrity in swing congressional districts
all over the country in like a midterm election which
was at the time was like a perfect fit for
like where I was and trying to take the skills
that I had had, but it was more like a
(07:50):
sprint than a marathon, so which was like the right time.
I mean, at that point, I had two kids under
eighteen months, so that was like the right fit. I
just sort of like checked out of my personal life
and like checked into my professional life.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You're kind of understating this. You were also like on
Campbell News at four am and two AM and six
am and then schlepping to one congressional district and schlepping
to another. So you did the classic mom like it
was no big deal. It was just what could fit
into my schedule. But like a normal schedule is not
let me do a four am news hit and then
(08:23):
breastfeed my child.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So let's just be clear about what we're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, we did do a little bit of that was
that was in there too, Okay, But then as people
have been following the show, No I had the third kid,
went into the lockdown and basically took myself out of
politics because I didn't think it was accessible to me anymore.
Like the intersection of politics and media, like all of
that timing that you're describing, Like all of the work,
it's so predicated on having like up to date information
(08:50):
and being available at six am and being able to
go to a swing district. Like the way to basically
stay in our industry of politics is to be constantly
on top of it, which really appealed to me when
I didn't have kids, because I was always had to
stay engaged. And then when I had three kids under
three and a half, like the industry was no longer
(09:10):
accessible to me, And so I started this show she Pivot,
and like, I thought about my impact being moving from
legislative change or political change to being in culture change,
like telling different stories, like stories that might change the
way we think about things. And so I've been totally
out of politics. And then well we've always been in touch.
But then a few weeks ago, what did you say
to me? I said, Emily, I think that you were
(09:32):
lying to yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You keep saying I don't think that I have the
capacity to do politics because I've taken on all of
these big personal roles and like a.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Lot of moms, you are.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Running things at your kids' school, you are super it's
important to you as it should be so to all
of us moms to be present for soccer practices and
travel and family commitments and all the things. And as
you went through your schedule, you're like, it's just not
possible to fit in anything else, so I just can't
do politics. And I was like, Emily, let's just look
(10:06):
back at your past few weeks. You're saying you can't
fit things into politics, but you were heavily involved in
orchestrating the White Women for Kamala Call that was a
record breaking fundraiser with tens of thousands of people. You've
been busy connecting different people across media and politics with
each other, including connecting me to some amazing women to
(10:27):
make sure that there's connective tissue across people who might
not be in touch with each other. But if they could,
if we could join forces, we could do exponentially more
impactful things. I was like, Emily, you are doing it.
You are just pretending like it is an afterthought and
not something that is on your mind, and let's just
call it what it is, which is still a huge
(10:49):
part of who you are, but a new you who
has also a full plate of other activities, and let's
just create an opportunity for you to do it with
a name on it, because you're already doing the work.
And so I did a leap of faith and said, Emily,
I think that you should join the board of Swing Left,
(11:09):
and I think that you can help us really grow
in ways that are outside of any of our current
expertise around the intersection of politics with not just media,
but media that is focused on people who are not
doing politics full time. So whether that's you know, people
who are reading lifestyle or fashion publications, whether that's people
(11:31):
who are following some light political content on social media
but aren't going to go and read Politico every morning,
you understand that intersection and you're already helping. Some of
the best advice I've gotten since becoming executive director has
been from you, Emily, and so I was like, let's
just give a title to what you're already doing. And
you Hamden had because you were like the type of
(11:52):
person that every one of your listeners knows that you are,
and you're like, I'm doing a lot for the school.
I need to make sure that these like my five
step program or probably knowing you like twenty step program
of Impact is perfect and as you thought about it,
you decided you just can't sit on the sidelines of selection.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I loved what you said. I love how you phrased it.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You said, Emily, you're a political animal and you're pretending
that you're not.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
And I was like, oh, except last exactly, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Now back to the show. And I also think super
important to note that you're a mom of two young
kids too. That's right, that's right, like you are your client,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I mean I do think it's something I think
about a lot is we all have like different seasons
of our life. Right You've touched on this a lot.
I think that's like a common theme in this podcast
of there are seasons where all we think about is work,
and there are seasons where all we literally can think
about is keeping our infant child fed with the vast
(13:02):
amount of milk that is emerging from our body. Right, Like,
there's just seasons of life. And I think something you
and I have talked about a lot, but that is
really front of mine for me right now, is in
this season of life, there is nothing.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
More important than family.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Like it is, there is nothing that I would ever
prioritize over my kids. Over also my aging parents, you know,
like it's just family is the number one and that
actually makes my level of focus on politics feel that
much stronger because I'm just like, this is not a game,
Like this is about the future of our kids, and
(13:36):
so this season of life, I think, is about like
how to make the work relate to what really matters,
which is family and our future. And so yeah, so
I'm very tired, as you can probably tell from the
deep recesses under my eyes at this time, because I
do not have the same under eye moisturizing regimen that
(13:56):
Emily does. But I feel also really energized. And I
also think that's like swing to have volunteers like work
full time and have kids and have family members that
they're taking care of and have mortgages to pay and
have all these things to do and still see their
participation in our politics as an essential part of living
(14:18):
out their values. And their budgets vary, right, Like I
have a neighbor who every Wednesday night she writes letters
to voters after her kid or toddler goes down. That's
her budget, that is all she can afford to do
right now. And then the Saturday for the election, she's
going to go out to a swing district to knock
on doors. We have other volunteers. Their budget is every
single day they are spending hours doing this work, and
(14:41):
every weekend they are schlepping to a swing district for
an hour and a half. It's just different, whether it's time,
whether it's money, where it's a combination era. Whatever is
meaningful to someone is what. We're here to help people
direct towards action, including you.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I mean I think that that is why this felt
like a fit to me because I've never felt well
more like your client, right, like like your volunteer that
like I can say, you know, maybe this week I
have a finite amount of time, maybe this today I
have you know, I feel like I have no time,
and so I'm going to try to direct dollars, like
try to direct donations, and you know, you guys can
(15:17):
tell me what the most effective way to do that is.
Can you also help people understand does this stuff matter?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Like does it do anything?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
But then they ask us to donate, when they ask
us to write cards like swing on you know, knock
on doors, like do I have to go to a
swing district?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Like does this stuff matter.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, so time and money they are such they're the
most precious things that we all have. For some of us,
time is we have almost none of it. So if
we tell people to do something and it's a waste
of their time, that to me is a real it's
a sign of disrespect. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So, like we have to.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Make sure that people's time and their dollars are going
to where they're going to make an impact. And so
we have a strong commitment to following the research about
where things are going to move to the needle and
also helping to make the process as easy as possible.
Of if someone's like I'm getting a bunch of text messages,
I'm getting a bunch of emails, I'm now in a
gazillion WhatsApp group and zoom calls.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I'm overloaded.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I just want to know I've got an hour, or
I've got a week at or I've got twenty five
bucks or orders of magnitude more in any of those categories.
What do I do to win elections? We want to
make that as easy as possible, and so the tech
that we use, that we engage in are the things
that continue to work. So that's knocking on doors, making
phone calls, particularly at this late moment in the cycle.
(16:38):
We did much less phone baking earlier on in the
cycle because it's less effective earlier. And then writing letters
to voters. And in that third category we actually run scientific,
randomized control trials to test not just the efficacy of
the concept of letter writing, but the specific letters that
people are writing. Are they moving the needle or not?
(16:59):
And each of those three tactics. We used to have
a fourth tactic of texting voters, and we've moved that
off of our list because it's just not as impactful
as it used to be. Because I think we can
all appreciate given how many texts we now get from
random organizations that we just sort of unsubscribe to. But
we measure the impact both so that someone knows I
(17:20):
spent a bunch of hours that I didn't even think
I had doing this thing.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Did it move the needle?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
We can share with rigor the answer to that question
of you know, this was a letter campaign that moved
the needle by this number of percentage points, and that's
what that meant in terms of the number of votes
in this district. And for canvassing and phone banking while
we don't run those ourselves to our campaigns that we support,
do we do rigorously look at all the research about
(17:49):
the best practices of canvassing. So if someone is taking
a leap of faith and saying I've never done this before,
I'm kind of nervous. I'm not really sure that this
even works. Also, I'm not a policy expert. I'm someone
who occasionally reads the news. But like I'm not an economist.
I can't talk about what's Kamala's position on every issue
of the economy that they understand based on the research,
(18:09):
not on our gut feelings, but based on the research.
What is going to work in a conversation with a
voter at their door or on the phone. And the
short answer is actually the people who are not policy
experts are much better equipped to have those conversations because
the things that really work are listening, authentically, telling a story,
and just taking the time to have a face to
(18:31):
face conversation with someone is much more important than like
nailing the perfect talking point on you know whatever, ech
on inflation.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Right, So happy to talk more.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
About any of those, but I do think something that
is on my mind a lot is even the people
who are the most informed often feel like they don't
have the agency to move the needle because of how
much noise there is all around them. That it doesn't
feel like when people say this election is going to
come down to the margins that they had the imagination of,
(19:02):
Oh the margins actually meet me and my friends could
be the difference. Even if I live in a bright
blue part of the country like a New York City
or a Los Angeles or a San Francisco, they're still
ninety minutes away from a swing district and just a
click away from making contributions that can be really meaningful
for candidates.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I think what people also don't realize.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
They think, like, oh, my god, ur and I annoying
these voters, Like if I show up with their doors
and that feels so annoying and invasive, Like if I
call them, doesn't that feel so annoying and invasive. I
think what people don't realize is that if you live
in one, especially in like a presidential swing state like
a Pennsylvania or a Michigan, is that the voters are
used to getting so many contacts that's right, even if
(19:42):
they hang up on you or like slam the door
in your face and as a volunteer, like.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Oh my god, this was the worst possible version.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Like and by the way, it won't be the worst
possible version, but you know, like they do happen, Like
even if it does happen, that voter is still clocking
which campaign showed up to try to reach them, even
if they act like they're annoyed. So you know, like
if the Trump campaign calls them five times and they
hung up, and the Kamala campaign calls them one time
and they hung up, when it gets to election day,
they're going to think to themselves, well, who cared about
(20:10):
me more?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Like?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Who called me more times? Like every one of the
contacts is actually valuable.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's right hand, It's also really valuable when the contact
is not on our side, so that nobody wastes more
time with that person. And I think that's something else
that sometimes a first time canvasser will go out and say, well,
you know, I only talk to a handful of people,
and all the people I talk to are not on
our side. I must have done something wrong or I
must have wasted my time, right And what they don't
(20:37):
fully appreciate and we try to talk them through is
each of those people who said absolutely not, would I
ever support Kamala Harris, they are now moving off of
the campaign's list. And what's happening in the background, and
this is particularly important in this cycle, but of course
matters at every level of the ballid every cycle, is
(20:58):
that the campaign is constantly refined their data, right, And
so you and I talk a lot about suburban women
voters and suburban women voters are going to be decisive
in this election, just as they have been in past elections,
both at the presidential level but also down ballot. But
if someone who in the campaign's targeting should be a
Kamala supporter should be leaning Kamala, and someone goes to
(21:21):
knocks on their door and they say, absolutely not. My
top issue is immigration. That's why I love Donald Trump.
I want to deport everybody. Then the campaign adds that
to their targeting both for that individual voter, and if
every single person of that exact demographic in that district
reacted the same way during that canvas, all across that
(21:41):
state or all across that district, then that will impact
how the campaign decides to target different suburban women in
that area. And so I think that's really important because again,
and I think this is sometimes by design in the
way that media talks to people, is everything feels so
many notches above what an ordinary person who doesn't work
(22:02):
in politics could possibly make a difference on. And even
those polls and even those you know, numbers that are
run by really smart experts who have levels of knowledge
that I could never pretend to have about targeting, are
relying on the work on the ground by volunteers to
help inform what they're doing. Because there's only fifty days
(22:23):
left today. By the time people listen to this podcast,
it's going to be even less than fifty days before
the election, and so there's just not the time for
a polster in DC, or even a polster in Philadelphia
or in Detroit to really exactly understand every single voter
without that on the ground support volunteers.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And by the way, this on the ground testing, like
through conversations and being able to say like, this kind
of person is gettable, this type of person is definitely
not is super live like it's a total live issue,
like particularly in this election, even in the last week,
we've seen this that you usually at this point in
a campaign, the campaign will have a better idea of
(23:03):
who their supporter is, and so like they're narrowing down
their list so that by the time you get to election,
deg're like only talking to your hardcore supporters. And we're
like we'd be like kind of close to that right now,
Like we'd be like I'm talking to like medium supporters
to hardcore supporters to turn them out. But because of
the crazy dynamic to the cycle, I think, especially the
last debate and now all these really high profile Republicans
(23:24):
like coming out, it's sort of like unlocking this permission
structure for Republicans to unlock her, Like.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You got I touch them all. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Like you actually have to ask every single person who
is either already registered or could be registered, because we
really don't know who's willing to say Donald Trump is
way too big of a threat. I'm willing to go
in the other direction, even if I don't support her
on every single issue, Like and you just need tons
and tons of people to be making those contacts and
like get that information back to the campaign.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
That's exactly right. And I think it's also really important
that those people and you implied this, but I want
to make sure it's like absolutely clear to every single person.
Those people are really geographically close to every single one
of your listeners. And I think that that's the other piece.
I've been continuously surprised by how little sort of like
(24:15):
logical connection is made by our media. Of Like, if
you were in Los Angeles, you're literally an hour and
thirty minutes away from a district that if we do
not win that district, we will not win the House.
Same with San Francisco, same with New York, same with Boston,
same with Chicago. And that's on the house side. It's
(24:35):
also true on the presidential side. Right if you're in
Los Angeles, you're a sure drive away from Las Vegas.
You can't go to every Las Vegas every Wednesday night.
But in the final stretch, at the moment where getting
those voters to our side is so essential, you can
bet that driving for spending a weekend there and knocking
on doors all day can make a difference. And the
(24:55):
same with San Francisco, over to Nevada, New York to Pennsylvania,
where I know you and I are going to be
spending a bunch of time in this cycle. And the
list goes on Chicago to Milwaukee and so I say
that because I do think that what I hear a
lot from folks, especially busy moms who just don't have time,
is oh my gosh, I already feel nervous about like
(25:16):
what it's going to be like watching Steve Cornaky go
through the election results in Bucks County or the election
results in Maricopa County or whatever the case may be,
is and what could I possibly do to.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Make that night not a nightmare?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
And just showing them a Google Maps of like this
is how close you are. And again, you don't have
to do it all, but like, think about what resources
you have. For some people, that's money, right They a
lot of my friends who work at a Google or
at our lawyers or whatever like them. Writing a check
that has a couple zeros on it is not a
(25:51):
big deal, But for a candidate, it's a really big deal.
Like I was just talking to one of our candidate
that we've raised about three hundred thousand dollars in small
dollar donations, who happens to be a soccer mom like you,
but out in Oregon on the other side of the country,
and every morning she talks to it. She lives in Oregon,
her mom is in DC. So they have a call
every morning at five thirty am, which is also bananas
(26:13):
and a reminder that moms do the most at all
hours of the day. And she says she looks at
her fundraising numbers at five fifteen am. That's when they
like activate in her dashboard to see how much money
she's raised, and she sees all these small dollar donations
come in from Swing Left donors every morning at five
fifteen am. And every morning she starts her call with
her mom being like, I don't even know who these
(26:34):
people are. I did not call them, I did not
email them. And they are committed to helping make sure
that we win the house and committed to my race
and believe in my ability to do so. And that
gives her the boost that she needs to then go
and work her tail off for the whole day, like
running for Congress is something I do not envy.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It's so hard.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Starting at five fifteen every morning, she has that little
boost of she can then make sure that she is,
you know, doing some really good youth outreach in her district,
or she's traveling to a rural part of her district,
or she's doing all these things, and that feels so
many steps away from someone just like clicking to an
online contribution, and so again, I think that's where that's
(27:14):
why I'm so excited to be working together with you.
How do we make sure that that connection is clear
both on the geographic closeness all of us have to
swing districts, but also the proximity. The impact of a
small donation of time or money can actually make a
huge difference for a candidate and for a district that's
going to come down to In some cases, literally a
(27:35):
couple hundred votes was the difference in a few of
these competitive races.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Now back to the show. I was talking to a mom,
so I live. I live in a swing district. I
live in a Republican district. And I was talking to
a mom the other day who told me that what
she does is she picks her kids up from school,
goes to the playground, and writes letters to voters that
she gets from you guys from vote forward. And it's
like the perfect that you know, like you could be
(28:08):
sitting on the bench chit chatting about the same soccer
game that you guys are going to later, or you know,
like she sits side by sides with other moms and
they just sit there for you know, twenty thirty minutes
and they or ten minutes and like knocks out a
couple of letters and she feels and she actually gets
a ton done.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It's like such an accessible way to be thinking about it.
It's interesting you said the text banking you guys dropped
it off. It doesn't work anymore. That totally makes sense.
But I do feel like it makes sense if you're
texting a friend.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Totally that it's Yes, that's a really important distinction.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yes, Like I feel like that still works because even
people even if they think they want to vote or
they think they're going to vote the state, the rules
in the states are terrible, Like they're always like dropping
you off the voter rolls, change your name, you move,
they drop you off the voter rolls. Anyway, even if
you didn't do anything wrong, like you just have to
check you have to check your voter registration. So getting
that reminder from a friend, Yes, it's so different than
(29:03):
like a spammy text.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
It's so different.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean I think that and this is this
is not just a smart opinion that you have in
isolation from the data. Like the data really strongly backs
up exactly what your sort of experience and instincts are.
And I think that's important for people because I remember
back in twenty eighteen, I remember talking to a volunteer
who continues to be active with Swing Left, and she
(29:28):
was in Annie Kim's district in New Jersey and she'd
never participated in politics before. And she was like, you know,
I've never really done anything.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I didn't think I had it in me.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I'm not, you know, a political pundit type. I'm not
a fun insider. But my friends really trust me because
I know And this is she's like, I know all
the best sales in the area, So I'm always texting
my friends being like, make a run for it. There's
a great sale here. Oh my goodness, Like you know,
whatever she's got, Like her friends really listen to what
she's saying because she's always in the know. She's great hosts,
(30:00):
she has great events at her house and in the
suburbs of New Jersey. These women, she's never really spent
time talking to you about politics. She was like, I'm
sick of just sort of like sitting on the sidelines.
She got involved. She decided to do a little event
for Andy Kim didn't think she could do much for it.
She invited him sort of nominally and then separately, as
(30:21):
you and I both have a relationship with Andy Kim,
I remember I had heard a story from him about
one of the highlights of his campaign was when he
got invited by a woman in his district that said
she was getting a few friends together and he really
appreciated her and liked her and wanted to support her.
So he went, not thinking it was going to be
anything really big, and he couldn't find a parking space
and he's like, gosh, I guess it's close to the holidays.
(30:42):
There must be some like holiday event or something. He
had to park really far away, and he schlept, you know,
several blocks to go to this brewery for this event.
And he walks into a room of several hundred people
for this little tiny event that this woman Dammy was
trying to together for him, and he was like, it
was the biggest event that I'd had in my campaign,
(31:04):
And of course Tammy was like, it's just going to
be a couple of friends. And I'm saying all that
because I also think that there is a you know
my husband I talk about his mom a lot. She
was PTA president and is very self effacing about her leadership.
She's like, oh, I'm not I don't really know, you know,
I'm not really a leader. But she was PTA president.
She ran things at his school, she got huge things done.
(31:27):
She was interacting with both elected and unelected leaders. She
was moving people, she was getting people together at events,
she was getting people to take action. And that is
literally what politics is. It's not anything more specific, it's
not anything more sophisticated than that. And so I also
think just getting people who are already leaders, who are
(31:47):
already running things for their kids' schools, to then just
say I'm also going to do this and also now
text my friends who might not know who they're voting
for or who might not know how to take action,
that suddenly becomes not just like a nice thing to
do that makes you feel good, but something that can
actually really really move the needle in elections that.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Come down to margins.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
So talk to me about posting yes, like, is it effective?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Is it not effective? How would you use it?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think especially for people who don't consider themselves like
super political.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, So I think there's a lot of different ways
that people can post, and the effects range widely, So
just like the nerd answer is, there's a lot of
noise about the effects of digital campaigning in general. Right,
there's a bigger risk of like backlash, meaning you try
to do a thing and the opposite thing happens. There's
(32:39):
some really fruitful effects, and then there's a lot of
just like posts that don't do anything, So there's a
wide spectrum here. I think that the places where there's
consistently strong effects are exactly your text message version, but
in the political space of people who are talking to
(32:59):
their friends who are undecided or who need more information,
and that is both a great way to inform people.
It is also a great way to disinform and misinform people,
which I think any of us who is still on
Facebook is seeing just how much misinformation and disinformation is
fed to undecided people in our networks and makes them
(33:21):
have bizarre beliefs at the Thanksgiving table that we don't
know where they came from. But sharing information so that
people you know, whether it is a public post or
when someone posts something a little sideways and you know
that they know better, sending them a little message being like, actually,
here's the fact check on that. I've done a lot
of that with friends that I know are a little
swingy on their vote, to just make sure that they
(33:43):
have the information that's really really important. But it's important
from a trusted messenger, right, So that trusted messenger could
be someone that you are deeply in relationship with. It
could also be and you know much more about this
than I do, but from someone that you really trust
because of you know something that they something you follow
them for. So like you know, I follow the Peloton
(34:05):
instructors that I really trust to give me great exercise
advice and who I feel like I have a personal
relationship with. I've never met any of them, but you've
had Robin on your podcast. When they post about something
that is outside of exercise, I'm going to listen a
little more because I feel like I have a relationship
with them. Right. So obviously that's all intuitive. Your listeners
are online, they all know that. But I also just
(34:27):
think the caveat that I have to all this is
posts have to lead to some kind of action, right.
It has to motivate someone to say you know what,
All right, I've seen Emily post ten times about how
it can make a difference to write letters. I'm just
going to try writing one right or gosh, you know,
I've been hearing a lot of weird stuff about what
(34:48):
Kamala you know, or what Jadie Vance is saying about
weird stuff on immigrants, Like gosh, Emily's posting something that
feels like a lot more reasonable from pretty trusted sources.
So maybe I I need to actually do some fact
checking here, Like it's got to move to something offline.
I think our sort of mo at Swing Left is
we're very digital forward. We have an engineering and product
(35:10):
team that works every day to make sure our website
is simple and easy to use.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It gets people the information we need.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
We post a ton online, But the metric that we
are constantly looking at is what is that all doing
to get people to take action? And as we've looked
at other organizations out in the space, influencers out in
the space, there are some that post a lot and
there's not a way to sort of track its impact
in the shorter and the long term towards actually doing anything.
(35:39):
But when we like Hillary Clinton posted about the importance
of taking action through Swing Left in twenty eighteen, not
only do We have some good, sort of big numbers
of what that meant in terms of volunteer sign ups, donations,
people signing up. But it also meant that one of
our then someone we didn't know but soon to be
college organized or is Madeleine signed up. She saw that tweet,
(36:03):
she didn't know what Swing Left was. Sign up for
our list, sign up to create a chapter at George
Washington University, ran that chapter, got hundreds of students to
go knock on doors every weekend in the twenty eighteen election,
then moved up to run our campus organizing program, and
then now is on the Harris campaign in North Carolina.
And there's similar examples of your friend Grace Lee, an
(36:25):
elected official in New York who found out about Swing
Left online, showed up to volunteer for an event in
New York City and that was her first tiny dipping
her toe into politics. And now she's an elected official
who I think the sky's the limit on the impact
she's going to have. So I'm saying all that of
like yes online can be really effective, it can also
(36:45):
be totally just a waste of time if it's not leading,
it's not with the intention of leading people to action,
and sometimes not in the immediate it's not like, oh
that post failed because someone didn't click the link and
sign up and donate in that moment. Is it planting
the seeds to get someone that much closer maybe a
month from now, when they're more tuned into the election,
(37:07):
to then be like, you know what, that celebrity I
really trust posted about canvassing. I've got some extra time
this weekend. Maybe I'm going to do that now. And
maybe we can't track the analytics of that perfectly, but
it was important to do and we need to do
more of it so that people feel like again there's
sort of less mental leaps that they need to make
as they decide how they want to take action.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Okay, so for everyone who's listening who now feels like
they need to take action, what should they do?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
They should go to swing left dot org and they
will find it very two big buttons, one for donating,
one for volunteering, and based on what they have, what
resources they have, whether they have a lot of time
and a little money or the inverse or just a
little bit of each, they can plug in and everything
that we do are commitventive folks, is that their time
and their money is going to be directed only to
(37:54):
the actions and the races that are going to be
the difference. And what we mean by the difference is
the different in winning the presidential election, which is going
to come down to a few It's going to come
down to a few ten like ten thousand votes in
probably two or three states. That's what it was in
twenty twenty, right, that's nothing. So how to make a
difference in the presidential how to make a difference in
the Senate that's going to determine, you know, what's the
(38:15):
future of our Supreme Court? Are we going to have
great people in the Harris administration knock on wood actually
running these agencies that are so decisive for people's livelihoods
and lives and the majority in the House right these are,
and then of course state level work as well, but
with a focus on that federal work that is so
urgent right now, every single letter called knock donation is
(38:38):
going to go to determining the balance of power. And
we hope to make it as easy and as fun
as possible for folks.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
This is so helpful.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I think it's going to help a lot of people
figure out, like move to that first step.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
That's right, because it's it's.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Even if you've done it before, you know, we've got
to relearn that muscle. No one was really out on
the doors in twenty twenty. Also because the COVID, that's right,
so like the little Rusty for all of us. So
it helps when it feels like we're doing it in community,
and I think everyone listening wants to be in community
with you.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
So thank you so much, Yasman. Super helpful to have
you on.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Well, I'm honored to be in community with you and
continuing to learn from you and your expertise. Even though
sometimes you pretend like you're just you're just out here
being a mom, you remain one of the smartest, sharpest,
and most strategic political actors out here. And so I'm
really excited that you're getting back in the game, even
in this new sort of cycle of life. And I
(39:32):
can't wait to see your kids out knocking on doors too.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
In the final strip, they're talkers, they are talkers, so
every door will be like a twenty five minute long encounter.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Thank you, thanks for coming on, Thank you, Emily, thanks
for listening. Yasmin and the Swing Left team are working
around the clock to make sure that all of these
ways to get involved are accessible to people like us.
Follow them at Swing left and visit swing left dot
org to check out all those ways to get involved.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Talk to you next week.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Special thanks to the she pivots team. Executive producer Emily
eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins,
Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics coordinator Madeleine Sonoviak,
and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock I endorse che
Pivots
Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Yasmin Raji and I'm
the executive director of Swing Left.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back to sheep Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman.
When I was planning this season, I wanted to make
sure she Pivots was a means for building connections. I
said during our season launch party that we're the generation
of women who build bridges and don't tear each other down,
and she pivots as a way to empower women to
look inward, define success for themselves and not by society standards.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
And it's working.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
We're seeing a substantial change in the way women think
about and talk about their lives and their careers. I'm
so excited to dig deeper into these pivotal moments through
these shorter, more conversational Candon convos this season. Let's jump
right in on today's Candon Convo. I'm so excited to
(00:57):
have the one and only Yasmin Raji. Today we're not
only diving into what is needed to win in this election,
but announcing that I am pivoting or reverse pivoting into politics.
I just couldn't stay away, and I'm so honored to
share that I'm now serving on the board of Swing.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Left for she's the executive director.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I wanted to come out of retirement from politics for
this election because it just feels like there's too much
at stake, and why specifically Swing Left. I mean, when
I was working in politics, I was so deep in
it that I was like in the machine.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And then I took.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
A pretty hard break, like a pretty hard step back
to start this show, she pivots just to be able
to have conversations and think about changing culture by uplifting
different kinds of stories. And then when I thought to myself,
how can I possibly engage again? I can't go back
into the machine, like I can't go back into the
deep depths of politics. I need to do something that
(01:53):
is an easier and more accessible lift for me. And
now I am the suburban swing district mom, and so
now I am the person that I was always trying
to reach. Swing Left felt like the perfect marriage of
those things. I used to be on the political side
and now I'm on the volunteer side. So I'm really
excited to get into this conversation with Yasmin.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I'm Yasmin Raji.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'm executive director of Swing Left, a national organization that
engages volunteers and donors in the highest impact actions to
help Democrats win majorities.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Okay, so talk to me a little bit about Well, first,
let's give a little background. How do you and I
know each other? Like, if this is my pivot back
into politics, how do we know each other?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I actually was going to give the wrong answer, but
what I am now remembering is in twenty seventeen, I
was one of the co founders of an organization called
Resistant School, and we were flying by the seat of
our pants and we got an email from some extremely
important DC powerbroker named Emily Tish Sussman saying, do you
(03:03):
guys want to come to a cap action get together
with new resistance leaders? And we were like, oh my god,
people have paid attention to this thing that we're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And we flew.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I don't remember where I assumed DC, but I can't
really remember.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
No, No, it was California. I was in California.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, I think it was kind it's like a million
years ago. Yeah, that's right. And we got together in
a room and I had a little Moleskin notebook where
I think I wrote down every word of what anybody said,
because I was so fired up to be in this
room of all the people I had been engaging with
online actually getting together to think about how the ecosystem
(03:43):
could work together better. And you were the brain behind
that get together. And then I don't know that we
really build a relationship until I don't even remember what
the impetus was, maybe Planned Parenthood worl repro world, But anyway,
now it's sort of like one of those relationships where
I don't even remember quite where it began, but it
feels like it's always been a part of my life.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, I was remembering, that was exactly right.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
It was that after I worked at the Democratic thing
Tank that were the progressive thing tank that was considered
in twenty sixteen for like the Hillary Clinton administration.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
People called it like.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Quote the White House in waiting because everyone was like
getting themselves ready for the Clinton administration. And I had
my first kid in the middle of it, like in August,
so I was on maternity leave the whole fall when
we were like this time of twenty sixteen of the
Hillary Clinton election, and my first day back from maternity
leave was the Monday after the election. So like when
you thought everybody in America was just like crying at
(04:39):
work and crying on the subway. Like think about walking
into the quote White House and waiting where everyone's offices
were packed up to move into their transition offices, like
they had no unbelievable, like no one knew what their
job was supposed to be. Everyone It's been the last
three years getting ready for this point, and I had
just had my first kid. So I came back with
this like new mom energy and was like, I'm going
(04:59):
to prove to everyone that, like I'm the same worker.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I worked just as hard.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So where as everyone was just like sitting around crying,
I was like spinning circles around. I mean I think
in my head too, but I was like, I've got
to be productive, like I have to do something valuable.
And saw that all of these like quote resistance groups
people were like popping up all over the country, and
it was all these people who it was someone who
(05:24):
was like the smartest, most plugged in political person of
their friends and was like sending out like daily actions
you could do, And all of a sudden had an
email list of thirty five thousand people.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
That was very much the vie of that era.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, Like we had so many of those people, and
I was like, okay, well what can we do, Like
what a value add can we have here?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Like we're a think tank, we can provide people with information.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
And then the next step was like, well, a lot
of these people wanted to make them groups and like
make them stainable, make them continue. It's like, well, what
if we give them like sustainability training, like how to stay,
how to maintain an org? And so we put that together.
I remember you were there. I think Swing Left was there,
Indivisible was there?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Definitely, Yes, Women's March was there, A bunch of it
was maybe like thirty different groups. I remember I wrote
a briefing to myself about the group so I could
like understand.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
You know, it's one of those.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It was just it was a very exciting moment, and
it was truly like, you know, as someone who'd been
following so much of what was happening online but couldn't
tell like who's behind this thing, what's their strategy, what
are they doing? Why did they do this? I think
Andy Kim might have been there because he had started that.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Andy Kim was there, Yeah, he had started Rise Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, So it is sort of funny. And in your
helping to organize the white women for Kamala Harris call,
a few of the women that were heavily involved were
some of the Women's March people who were in that room.
Andy Kim is now running for the US and he's
going to need a nextcent senator from New Jersey. And
you and I are coming full circle here, which I
(07:04):
know is sort of like previewing the purpose of this conversation,
but it does feel like it's a good reminder of
like there are some rooms and moments where you're surrounded
by people and you know it's special and you know
something's going to come of it, but you can't begin
to imagine sort of the seeds of relationships and good
trouble that are going to come from it. And that
was you created one of those rooms that has only
(07:26):
continued to bear fruits.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well that's so lovely, Okay. So I ended up leaving,
I had my second kid. I ended up going to
work for Swing Left in twenty eighteen and running the
National Celebrity Program, so placing celebrity in swing congressional districts
all over the country in like a midterm election which
was at the time was like a perfect fit for
like where I was and trying to take the skills
that I had had, but it was more like a
(07:50):
sprint than a marathon, so which was like the right time.
I mean, at that point, I had two kids under
eighteen months, so that was like the right fit. I
just sort of like checked out of my personal life
and like checked into my professional life.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You're kind of understating this. You were also like on
Campbell News at four am and two AM and six
am and then schlepping to one congressional district and schlepping
to another. So you did the classic mom like it
was no big deal. It was just what could fit
into my schedule. But like a normal schedule is not
let me do a four am news hit and then
(08:23):
breastfeed my child.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
So let's just be clear about what we're talking about here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, we did do a little bit of that was
that was in there too, Okay, But then as people
have been following the show, No I had the third kid,
went into the lockdown and basically took myself out of
politics because I didn't think it was accessible to me anymore.
Like the intersection of politics and media, like all of
that timing that you're describing, Like all of the work,
it's so predicated on having like up to date information
(08:50):
and being available at six am and being able to
go to a swing district. Like the way to basically
stay in our industry of politics is to be constantly
on top of it, which really appealed to me when
I didn't have kids, because I was always had to
stay engaged. And then when I had three kids under
three and a half, like the industry was no longer
(09:10):
accessible to me, And so I started this show she Pivot,
and like, I thought about my impact being moving from
legislative change or political change to being in culture change,
like telling different stories, like stories that might change the
way we think about things. And so I've been totally
out of politics. And then well we've always been in touch.
But then a few weeks ago, what did you say
to me? I said, Emily, I think that you were
(09:32):
lying to yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
You keep saying I don't think that I have the
capacity to do politics because I've taken on all of
these big personal roles and like a.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Lot of moms, you are.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Running things at your kids' school, you are super it's
important to you as it should be so to all
of us moms to be present for soccer practices and
travel and family commitments and all the things. And as
you went through your schedule, you're like, it's just not
possible to fit in anything else, so I just can't
do politics. And I was like, Emily, let's just look
(10:06):
back at your past few weeks. You're saying you can't
fit things into politics, but you were heavily involved in
orchestrating the White Women for Kamala Call that was a
record breaking fundraiser with tens of thousands of people. You've
been busy connecting different people across media and politics with
each other, including connecting me to some amazing women to
(10:27):
make sure that there's connective tissue across people who might
not be in touch with each other. But if they could,
if we could join forces, we could do exponentially more
impactful things. I was like, Emily, you are doing it.
You are just pretending like it is an afterthought and
not something that is on your mind, and let's just
call it what it is, which is still a huge
(10:49):
part of who you are, but a new you who
has also a full plate of other activities, and let's
just create an opportunity for you to do it with
a name on it, because you're already doing the work.
And so I did a leap of faith and said, Emily,
I think that you should join the board of Swing Left,
(11:09):
and I think that you can help us really grow
in ways that are outside of any of our current
expertise around the intersection of politics with not just media,
but media that is focused on people who are not
doing politics full time. So whether that's you know, people
who are reading lifestyle or fashion publications, whether that's people
(11:31):
who are following some light political content on social media
but aren't going to go and read Politico every morning,
you understand that intersection and you're already helping. Some of
the best advice I've gotten since becoming executive director has
been from you, Emily, and so I was like, let's
just give a title to what you're already doing. And
you Hamden had because you were like the type of
(11:52):
person that every one of your listeners knows that you are,
and you're like, I'm doing a lot for the school.
I need to make sure that these like my five
step program or probably knowing you like twenty step program
of Impact is perfect and as you thought about it,
you decided you just can't sit on the sidelines of selection.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I loved what you said. I love how you phrased it.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
You said, Emily, you're a political animal and you're pretending
that you're not.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
And I was like, oh, except last exactly, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Now back to the show. And I also think super
important to note that you're a mom of two young
kids too. That's right, that's right, like you are your client,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, I mean I do think it's something I think
about a lot is we all have like different seasons
of our life. Right You've touched on this a lot.
I think that's like a common theme in this podcast
of there are seasons where all we think about is work,
and there are seasons where all we literally can think
about is keeping our infant child fed with the vast
(13:02):
amount of milk that is emerging from our body. Right, Like,
there's just seasons of life. And I think something you
and I have talked about a lot, but that is
really front of mine for me right now, is in
this season of life, there is nothing.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
More important than family.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Like it is, there is nothing that I would ever
prioritize over my kids. Over also my aging parents, you know,
like it's just family is the number one and that
actually makes my level of focus on politics feel that
much stronger because I'm just like, this is not a game,
Like this is about the future of our kids, and
(13:36):
so this season of life, I think, is about like
how to make the work relate to what really matters,
which is family and our future. And so yeah, so
I'm very tired, as you can probably tell from the
deep recesses under my eyes at this time, because I
do not have the same under eye moisturizing regimen that
(13:56):
Emily does. But I feel also really energized. And I
also think that's like swing to have volunteers like work
full time and have kids and have family members that
they're taking care of and have mortgages to pay and
have all these things to do and still see their
participation in our politics as an essential part of living
(14:18):
out their values. And their budgets vary, right, Like I
have a neighbor who every Wednesday night she writes letters
to voters after her kid or toddler goes down. That's
her budget, that is all she can afford to do
right now. And then the Saturday for the election, she's
going to go out to a swing district to knock
on doors. We have other volunteers. Their budget is every
single day they are spending hours doing this work, and
(14:41):
every weekend they are schlepping to a swing district for
an hour and a half. It's just different, whether it's time,
whether it's money, where it's a combination era. Whatever is
meaningful to someone is what. We're here to help people
direct towards action, including you.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Well, I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I mean I think that that is why this felt
like a fit to me because I've never felt well
more like your client, right, like like your volunteer that
like I can say, you know, maybe this week I
have a finite amount of time, maybe this today I
have you know, I feel like I have no time,
and so I'm going to try to direct dollars, like
try to direct donations, and you know, you guys can
(15:17):
tell me what the most effective way to do that is.
Can you also help people understand does this stuff matter?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Like does it do anything?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
But then they ask us to donate, when they ask
us to write cards like swing on you know, knock
on doors, like do I have to go to a
swing district?
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Like does this stuff matter.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, so time and money they are such they're the
most precious things that we all have. For some of us,
time is we have almost none of it. So if
we tell people to do something and it's a waste
of their time, that to me is a real it's
a sign of disrespect. Right.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So, like we have to.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Make sure that people's time and their dollars are going
to where they're going to make an impact. And so
we have a strong commitment to following the research about
where things are going to move to the needle and
also helping to make the process as easy as possible.
Of if someone's like I'm getting a bunch of text messages,
I'm getting a bunch of emails, I'm now in a
gazillion WhatsApp group and zoom calls.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
I'm overloaded.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I just want to know I've got an hour, or
I've got a week at or I've got twenty five
bucks or orders of magnitude more in any of those categories.
What do I do to win elections? We want to
make that as easy as possible, and so the tech
that we use, that we engage in are the things
that continue to work. So that's knocking on doors, making
phone calls, particularly at this late moment in the cycle.
(16:38):
We did much less phone baking earlier on in the
cycle because it's less effective earlier. And then writing letters
to voters. And in that third category we actually run scientific,
randomized control trials to test not just the efficacy of
the concept of letter writing, but the specific letters that
people are writing. Are they moving the needle or not?
(16:59):
And each of those three tactics. We used to have
a fourth tactic of texting voters, and we've moved that
off of our list because it's just not as impactful
as it used to be. Because I think we can
all appreciate given how many texts we now get from
random organizations that we just sort of unsubscribe to. But
we measure the impact both so that someone knows I
(17:20):
spent a bunch of hours that I didn't even think
I had doing this thing.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Did it move the needle?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
We can share with rigor the answer to that question
of you know, this was a letter campaign that moved
the needle by this number of percentage points, and that's
what that meant in terms of the number of votes
in this district. And for canvassing and phone banking while
we don't run those ourselves to our campaigns that we support,
do we do rigorously look at all the research about
(17:49):
the best practices of canvassing. So if someone is taking
a leap of faith and saying I've never done this before,
I'm kind of nervous. I'm not really sure that this
even works. Also, I'm not a policy expert. I'm someone
who occasionally reads the news. But like I'm not an economist.
I can't talk about what's Kamala's position on every issue
of the economy that they understand based on the research,
(18:09):
not on our gut feelings, but based on the research.
What is going to work in a conversation with a
voter at their door or on the phone. And the
short answer is actually the people who are not policy
experts are much better equipped to have those conversations because
the things that really work are listening, authentically, telling a story,
and just taking the time to have a face to
(18:31):
face conversation with someone is much more important than like
nailing the perfect talking point on you know whatever, ech
on inflation.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Right, So happy to talk more.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
About any of those, but I do think something that
is on my mind a lot is even the people
who are the most informed often feel like they don't
have the agency to move the needle because of how
much noise there is all around them. That it doesn't
feel like when people say this election is going to
come down to the margins that they had the imagination of,
(19:02):
Oh the margins actually meet me and my friends could
be the difference. Even if I live in a bright
blue part of the country like a New York City
or a Los Angeles or a San Francisco, they're still
ninety minutes away from a swing district and just a
click away from making contributions that can be really meaningful
for candidates.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
I think what people also don't realize.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
They think, like, oh, my god, ur and I annoying
these voters, Like if I show up with their doors
and that feels so annoying and invasive, Like if I
call them, doesn't that feel so annoying and invasive. I
think what people don't realize is that if you live
in one, especially in like a presidential swing state like
a Pennsylvania or a Michigan, is that the voters are
used to getting so many contacts that's right, even if
(19:42):
they hang up on you or like slam the door
in your face and as a volunteer, like.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Oh my god, this was the worst possible version.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Like and by the way, it won't be the worst
possible version, but you know, like they do happen, Like
even if it does happen, that voter is still clocking
which campaign showed up to try to reach them, even
if they act like they're annoyed. So you know, like
if the Trump campaign calls them five times and they
hung up, and the Kamala campaign calls them one time
and they hung up, when it gets to election day,
they're going to think to themselves, well, who cared about
(20:10):
me more?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Like?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Who called me more times? Like every one of the
contacts is actually valuable.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
That's right hand, It's also really valuable when the contact
is not on our side, so that nobody wastes more
time with that person. And I think that's something else
that sometimes a first time canvasser will go out and say, well,
you know, I only talk to a handful of people,
and all the people I talk to are not on
our side. I must have done something wrong or I
must have wasted my time, right And what they don't
(20:37):
fully appreciate and we try to talk them through is
each of those people who said absolutely not, would I
ever support Kamala Harris, they are now moving off of
the campaign's list. And what's happening in the background, and
this is particularly important in this cycle, but of course
matters at every level of the ballid every cycle, is
(20:58):
that the campaign is constantly refined their data, right, And
so you and I talk a lot about suburban women
voters and suburban women voters are going to be decisive
in this election, just as they have been in past elections,
both at the presidential level but also down ballot. But
if someone who in the campaign's targeting should be a
Kamala supporter should be leaning Kamala, and someone goes to
(21:21):
knocks on their door and they say, absolutely not. My
top issue is immigration. That's why I love Donald Trump.
I want to deport everybody. Then the campaign adds that
to their targeting both for that individual voter, and if
every single person of that exact demographic in that district
reacted the same way during that canvas, all across that
(21:41):
state or all across that district, then that will impact
how the campaign decides to target different suburban women in
that area. And so I think that's really important because again,
and I think this is sometimes by design in the
way that media talks to people, is everything feels so
many notches above what an ordinary person who doesn't work
(22:02):
in politics could possibly make a difference on. And even
those polls and even those you know, numbers that are
run by really smart experts who have levels of knowledge
that I could never pretend to have about targeting, are
relying on the work on the ground by volunteers to
help inform what they're doing. Because there's only fifty days
(22:23):
left today. By the time people listen to this podcast,
it's going to be even less than fifty days before
the election, and so there's just not the time for
a polster in DC, or even a polster in Philadelphia
or in Detroit to really exactly understand every single voter
without that on the ground support volunteers.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And by the way, this on the ground testing, like
through conversations and being able to say like, this kind
of person is gettable, this type of person is definitely
not is super live like it's a total live issue,
like particularly in this election, even in the last week,
we've seen this that you usually at this point in
a campaign, the campaign will have a better idea of
(23:03):
who their supporter is, and so like they're narrowing down
their list so that by the time you get to election,
deg're like only talking to your hardcore supporters. And we're
like we'd be like kind of close to that right now,
Like we'd be like I'm talking to like medium supporters
to hardcore supporters to turn them out. But because of
the crazy dynamic to the cycle, I think, especially the
last debate and now all these really high profile Republicans
(23:24):
like coming out, it's sort of like unlocking this permission
structure for Republicans to unlock her, Like.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You got I touch them all. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Like you actually have to ask every single person who
is either already registered or could be registered, because we
really don't know who's willing to say Donald Trump is
way too big of a threat. I'm willing to go
in the other direction, even if I don't support her
on every single issue, Like and you just need tons
and tons of people to be making those contacts and
like get that information back to the campaign.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
That's exactly right. And I think it's also really important
that those people and you implied this, but I want
to make sure it's like absolutely clear to every single person.
Those people are really geographically close to every single one
of your listeners. And I think that that's the other piece.
I've been continuously surprised by how little sort of like
(24:15):
logical connection is made by our media. Of Like, if
you were in Los Angeles, you're literally an hour and
thirty minutes away from a district that if we do
not win that district, we will not win the House.
Same with San Francisco, same with New York, same with Boston,
same with Chicago. And that's on the house side. It's
(24:35):
also true on the presidential side. Right if you're in
Los Angeles, you're a sure drive away from Las Vegas.
You can't go to every Las Vegas every Wednesday night.
But in the final stretch, at the moment where getting
those voters to our side is so essential, you can
bet that driving for spending a weekend there and knocking
on doors all day can make a difference. And the
(24:55):
same with San Francisco, over to Nevada, New York to Pennsylvania,
where I know you and I are going to be
spending a bunch of time in this cycle. And the
list goes on Chicago to Milwaukee and so I say
that because I do think that what I hear a
lot from folks, especially busy moms who just don't have time,
is oh my gosh, I already feel nervous about like
(25:16):
what it's going to be like watching Steve Cornaky go
through the election results in Bucks County or the election
results in Maricopa County or whatever the case may be,
is and what could I possibly do to.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Make that night not a nightmare?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
And just showing them a Google Maps of like this
is how close you are. And again, you don't have
to do it all, but like, think about what resources
you have. For some people, that's money, right They a
lot of my friends who work at a Google or
at our lawyers or whatever like them. Writing a check
that has a couple zeros on it is not a
(25:51):
big deal, But for a candidate, it's a really big deal.
Like I was just talking to one of our candidate
that we've raised about three hundred thousand dollars in small
dollar donations, who happens to be a soccer mom like you,
but out in Oregon on the other side of the country,
and every morning she talks to it. She lives in Oregon,
her mom is in DC. So they have a call
every morning at five thirty am, which is also bananas
(26:13):
and a reminder that moms do the most at all
hours of the day. And she says she looks at
her fundraising numbers at five fifteen am. That's when they
like activate in her dashboard to see how much money
she's raised, and she sees all these small dollar donations
come in from Swing Left donors every morning at five
fifteen am. And every morning she starts her call with
her mom being like, I don't even know who these
(26:34):
people are. I did not call them, I did not
email them. And they are committed to helping make sure
that we win the house and committed to my race
and believe in my ability to do so. And that
gives her the boost that she needs to then go
and work her tail off for the whole day, like
running for Congress is something I do not envy.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
It's so hard.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Starting at five fifteen every morning, she has that little
boost of she can then make sure that she is,
you know, doing some really good youth outreach in her district,
or she's traveling to a rural part of her district,
or she's doing all these things, and that feels so
many steps away from someone just like clicking to an
online contribution, and so again, I think that's where that's
(27:14):
why I'm so excited to be working together with you.
How do we make sure that that connection is clear
both on the geographic closeness all of us have to
swing districts, but also the proximity. The impact of a
small donation of time or money can actually make a
huge difference for a candidate and for a district that's
going to come down to In some cases, literally a
(27:35):
couple hundred votes was the difference in a few of
these competitive races.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Now back to the show. I was talking to a mom,
so I live. I live in a swing district. I
live in a Republican district. And I was talking to
a mom the other day who told me that what
she does is she picks her kids up from school,
goes to the playground, and writes letters to voters that
she gets from you guys from vote forward. And it's
like the perfect that you know, like you could be
(28:08):
sitting on the bench chit chatting about the same soccer
game that you guys are going to later, or you know,
like she sits side by sides with other moms and
they just sit there for you know, twenty thirty minutes
and they or ten minutes and like knocks out a
couple of letters and she feels and she actually gets
a ton done.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It's like such an accessible way to be thinking about it.
It's interesting you said the text banking you guys dropped
it off. It doesn't work anymore. That totally makes sense.
But I do feel like it makes sense if you're
texting a friend.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Totally that it's Yes, that's a really important distinction.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yes, Like I feel like that still works because even
people even if they think they want to vote or
they think they're going to vote the state, the rules
in the states are terrible, Like they're always like dropping
you off the voter rolls, change your name, you move,
they drop you off the voter rolls. Anyway, even if
you didn't do anything wrong, like you just have to
check you have to check your voter registration. So getting
that reminder from a friend, Yes, it's so different than
(29:03):
like a spammy text.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
It's so different.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean I think that and this is this
is not just a smart opinion that you have in
isolation from the data. Like the data really strongly backs
up exactly what your sort of experience and instincts are.
And I think that's important for people because I remember
back in twenty eighteen, I remember talking to a volunteer
who continues to be active with Swing Left, and she
(29:28):
was in Annie Kim's district in New Jersey and she'd
never participated in politics before. And she was like, you know,
I've never really done anything.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I didn't think I had it in me.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I'm not, you know, a political pundit type. I'm not
a fun insider. But my friends really trust me because
I know And this is she's like, I know all
the best sales in the area, So I'm always texting
my friends being like, make a run for it. There's
a great sale here. Oh my goodness, Like you know,
whatever she's got, Like her friends really listen to what
she's saying because she's always in the know. She's great hosts,
(30:00):
she has great events at her house and in the
suburbs of New Jersey. These women, she's never really spent
time talking to you about politics. She was like, I'm
sick of just sort of like sitting on the sidelines.
She got involved. She decided to do a little event
for Andy Kim didn't think she could do much for it.
She invited him sort of nominally and then separately, as
(30:21):
you and I both have a relationship with Andy Kim,
I remember I had heard a story from him about
one of the highlights of his campaign was when he
got invited by a woman in his district that said
she was getting a few friends together and he really
appreciated her and liked her and wanted to support her.
So he went, not thinking it was going to be
anything really big, and he couldn't find a parking space
and he's like, gosh, I guess it's close to the holidays.
(30:42):
There must be some like holiday event or something. He
had to park really far away, and he schlept, you know,
several blocks to go to this brewery for this event.
And he walks into a room of several hundred people
for this little tiny event that this woman Dammy was
trying to together for him, and he was like, it
was the biggest event that I'd had in my campaign,
(31:04):
And of course Tammy was like, it's just going to
be a couple of friends. And I'm saying all that
because I also think that there is a you know
my husband I talk about his mom a lot. She
was PTA president and is very self effacing about her leadership.
She's like, oh, I'm not I don't really know, you know,
I'm not really a leader. But she was PTA president.
She ran things at his school, she got huge things done.
(31:27):
She was interacting with both elected and unelected leaders. She
was moving people, she was getting people together at events,
she was getting people to take action. And that is
literally what politics is. It's not anything more specific, it's
not anything more sophisticated than that. And so I also
think just getting people who are already leaders, who are
(31:47):
already running things for their kids' schools, to then just
say I'm also going to do this and also now
text my friends who might not know who they're voting
for or who might not know how to take action,
that suddenly becomes not just like a nice thing to
do that makes you feel good, but something that can
actually really really move the needle in elections that.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Come down to margins.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
So talk to me about posting yes, like, is it effective?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Is it not effective? How would you use it?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think especially for people who don't consider themselves like
super political.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, So I think there's a lot of different ways
that people can post, and the effects range widely, So
just like the nerd answer is, there's a lot of
noise about the effects of digital campaigning in general. Right,
there's a bigger risk of like backlash, meaning you try
to do a thing and the opposite thing happens. There's
(32:39):
some really fruitful effects, and then there's a lot of
just like posts that don't do anything, So there's a
wide spectrum here. I think that the places where there's
consistently strong effects are exactly your text message version, but
in the political space of people who are talking to
(32:59):
their friends who are undecided or who need more information,
and that is both a great way to inform people.
It is also a great way to disinform and misinform people,
which I think any of us who is still on
Facebook is seeing just how much misinformation and disinformation is
fed to undecided people in our networks and makes them
(33:21):
have bizarre beliefs at the Thanksgiving table that we don't
know where they came from. But sharing information so that
people you know, whether it is a public post or
when someone posts something a little sideways and you know
that they know better, sending them a little message being like, actually,
here's the fact check on that. I've done a lot
of that with friends that I know are a little
swingy on their vote, to just make sure that they
(33:43):
have the information that's really really important. But it's important
from a trusted messenger, right, So that trusted messenger could
be someone that you are deeply in relationship with. It
could also be and you know much more about this
than I do, but from someone that you really trust
because of you know something that they something you follow
them for. So like you know, I follow the Peloton
(34:05):
instructors that I really trust to give me great exercise
advice and who I feel like I have a personal
relationship with. I've never met any of them, but you've
had Robin on your podcast. When they post about something
that is outside of exercise, I'm going to listen a
little more because I feel like I have a relationship
with them. Right. So obviously that's all intuitive. Your listeners
are online, they all know that. But I also just
(34:27):
think the caveat that I have to all this is
posts have to lead to some kind of action, right.
It has to motivate someone to say you know what,
All right, I've seen Emily post ten times about how
it can make a difference to write letters. I'm just
going to try writing one right or gosh, you know,
I've been hearing a lot of weird stuff about what
(34:48):
Kamala you know, or what Jadie Vance is saying about
weird stuff on immigrants, Like gosh, Emily's posting something that
feels like a lot more reasonable from pretty trusted sources.
So maybe I I need to actually do some fact
checking here, Like it's got to move to something offline.
I think our sort of mo at Swing Left is
we're very digital forward. We have an engineering and product
(35:10):
team that works every day to make sure our website
is simple and easy to use.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It gets people the information we need.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
We post a ton online, But the metric that we
are constantly looking at is what is that all doing
to get people to take action? And as we've looked
at other organizations out in the space, influencers out in
the space, there are some that post a lot and
there's not a way to sort of track its impact
in the shorter and the long term towards actually doing anything.
(35:39):
But when we like Hillary Clinton posted about the importance
of taking action through Swing Left in twenty eighteen, not
only do We have some good, sort of big numbers
of what that meant in terms of volunteer sign ups, donations,
people signing up. But it also meant that one of
our then someone we didn't know but soon to be
college organized or is Madeleine signed up. She saw that tweet,
(36:03):
she didn't know what Swing Left was. Sign up for
our list, sign up to create a chapter at George
Washington University, ran that chapter, got hundreds of students to
go knock on doors every weekend in the twenty eighteen election,
then moved up to run our campus organizing program, and
then now is on the Harris campaign in North Carolina.
And there's similar examples of your friend Grace Lee, an
(36:25):
elected official in New York who found out about Swing
Left online, showed up to volunteer for an event in
New York City and that was her first tiny dipping
her toe into politics. And now she's an elected official
who I think the sky's the limit on the impact
she's going to have. So I'm saying all that of
like yes online can be really effective, it can also
(36:45):
be totally just a waste of time if it's not leading,
it's not with the intention of leading people to action,
and sometimes not in the immediate it's not like, oh
that post failed because someone didn't click the link and
sign up and donate in that moment. Is it planting
the seeds to get someone that much closer maybe a
month from now, when they're more tuned into the election,
(37:07):
to then be like, you know what, that celebrity I
really trust posted about canvassing. I've got some extra time
this weekend. Maybe I'm going to do that now. And
maybe we can't track the analytics of that perfectly, but
it was important to do and we need to do
more of it so that people feel like again there's
sort of less mental leaps that they need to make
as they decide how they want to take action.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Okay, so for everyone who's listening who now feels like
they need to take action, what should they do?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
They should go to swing left dot org and they
will find it very two big buttons, one for donating,
one for volunteering, and based on what they have, what
resources they have, whether they have a lot of time
and a little money or the inverse or just a
little bit of each, they can plug in and everything
that we do are commitventive folks, is that their time
and their money is going to be directed only to
(37:54):
the actions and the races that are going to be
the difference. And what we mean by the difference is
the different in winning the presidential election, which is going
to come down to a few It's going to come
down to a few ten like ten thousand votes in
probably two or three states. That's what it was in
twenty twenty, right, that's nothing. So how to make a
difference in the presidential how to make a difference in
the Senate that's going to determine, you know, what's the
(38:15):
future of our Supreme Court? Are we going to have
great people in the Harris administration knock on wood actually
running these agencies that are so decisive for people's livelihoods
and lives and the majority in the House right these are,
and then of course state level work as well, but
with a focus on that federal work that is so
urgent right now, every single letter called knock donation is
(38:38):
going to go to determining the balance of power. And
we hope to make it as easy and as fun
as possible for folks.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
This is so helpful.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I think it's going to help a lot of people
figure out, like move to that first step.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
That's right, because it's it's.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Even if you've done it before, you know, we've got
to relearn that muscle. No one was really out on
the doors in twenty twenty. Also because the COVID, that's right,
so like the little Rusty for all of us. So
it helps when it feels like we're doing it in community,
and I think everyone listening wants to be in community
with you.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
So thank you so much, Yasman. Super helpful to have
you on.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Well, I'm honored to be in community with you and
continuing to learn from you and your expertise. Even though
sometimes you pretend like you're just you're just out here
being a mom, you remain one of the smartest, sharpest,
and most strategic political actors out here. And so I'm
really excited that you're getting back in the game, even
in this new sort of cycle of life. And I
(39:32):
can't wait to see your kids out knocking on doors too.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
In the final strip, they're talkers, they are talkers, so
every door will be like a twenty five minute long encounter.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Thank you, thanks for coming on, Thank you, Emily, thanks
for listening. Yasmin and the Swing Left team are working
around the clock to make sure that all of these
ways to get involved are accessible to people like us.
Follow them at Swing left and visit swing left dot
org to check out all those ways to get involved.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Talk to you next week.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Special thanks to the she pivots team. Executive producer Emily
eda Velosik, Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins,
Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics coordinator Madeleine Sonoviak,
and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock I endorse che
Pivots
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