September 9, 2024 • 60 mins
Hit maker Gavin DeGraw joins Kate and Oliver to talk about prison life, but it's not what you think!
Plus, he reveals his musical muse, his biggest fear as an artist, and the family secret that no one saw coming!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Relationships and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling, Railvalry.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth, Revelry.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
That's good. I am sitting here all by myself because
Oliver's late, apparently he had to get gas. So I
am going to be a good sister, and I'm going
to start this early so we're on time so we
(00:55):
don't leave the wonderful Gavin de Gras waiting for too
long and I can't wait to talk to him, so,
you know, fuck Ollie, let's go. Gavin. Hi. Hi, it's
so nice to see.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
You, see you. You and I were at a party
apparently at the same time, but we did not meet
at that time.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Which party, Oh, at the at the Christmas.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Party, Johan Carlson at the Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
So we have a very close mutual friend, Johann Carlson,
who is a wonderful writer and music producer. Right, and
you've have you worked with Johan?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You've many times?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, and you weren't at his fortieth We had a
wild fortieth I saw you on the on the birthday message.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yes, oh yeah, I'm sorry I missed the party.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
It was it was so much fun. You missed a
really good party.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I really wanted to. I had work that landed right
on the day of the party day. I know. No,
it's sometimes.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well align it wasn't really like a normal party. I
mean we were talking a South of France bash.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, I know, it's not fair. Yeah, you really like,
Oh god.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Those are the ones you try to make.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I'm telling you, I'm telling you. No, the few
that I've missed, I missed another one. You know, because
you always hear about some amazing like you know, you
get invited to weird stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
This didn't used to happen to me when I was
living in a prison town. But when I got out
of my prison town, I got invited the cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, but we're going to unpack that, Kevin.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
It should Yes, good, there's a lot. So I got
invited to this party last year, and again I had
work on the exact day this party, and here was
the party. Okay, so here was the party. Here's a
party that I'm still upset that I missed this particular event.
It was a I think it was a Halloween party
(03:06):
at the original castle grounds of Vladdi Impaler, Count Dracula
stop it. Yes, and like, I can't believe I'm going
to miss this thing.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Wait in like Transylvania.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yes, yeah, it was like the most outrageous Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Who threw that party? I can't say, I mean clearly yes,
So of course.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
The guy who invited me. You know, I won't say
whose party, I can't say his party it was, but
I can say I think what makes it even more
interesting and more mysterious is that the guy who invited me,
of course, is a magician, like the kind of guy
who stands in front of you who you know you've
(03:59):
never met before, or yeah, and you know what he
did to me? And here's how I knew he was real.
Oh oh, never met the man. This is a few
years ago. I was at another really interesting, really interesting
invite and it's for first time I met him, and
I said, how do I know if your magic is real?
And he goes, well, have we ever met before? I
(04:21):
said no? And he said do I have any ear
pieces in or anything like that? And I was like,
can I look? He said, yeah, I have a look,
you don't have a look. And he said, do you
need proof that my magic is real? I said, I
need proof that your magic is really h of course,
And he then proceeded to tell me number by number,
(04:44):
my phone number. To me.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
What he.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Walked me off.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And well he could have like known people that know
you and then like memorized everybody's fine.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I don't know. There was only one person there who
knew me. Yeah, that's weird, like knew me, knew me.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
But did he guess it through a series of yes
or nose or he just flat out knew your number.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
He did not give me a yes or no other
than not if this is the right number, And he
went and picked the exact number one at a time.
And I was that's crazy, mesmerized and terrified.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I always want to know, like what what is that really?
Like there's something, there's some calculation. It can't just be
like by the way, And I love psychics, like I'm
all for psychics. I'm all for people who are like, listen,
your next five years are going to be amazing. You're
gonna make a ton of money. Your family's super healthy.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah, give me some more money.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And I love those I love those, okay, and I
and I choose to believe in it. But oh, there
he is. I started without you. Here's Oliver say.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Hi, Oh hello Oliver.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
How are you? My man? How are you? How are you?
I'm sorry. He almost ran out of gas, so I
had to like get gas.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Speaking of which, that's a whole other thing about Oliver's truck.
Ali is a truck that broke down on the way
to on the way to Colorado to summer. We were
just we just got back.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Oh wait, so did he break down because you also
ran out of gas then too?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
No, but I run out of gap twice in my life. No,
in your life. Well, so I was working in Albuquerque, okay,
and I had to get to set, and it was
early in the morning. I was like, fuck, dude, like,
I'm not gonna make it, but I think I can.
I'm gonna be late, I'm gonna go not gonna make it.
On the freeway, I run out of gas and now
(06:46):
I pull over the shoulder on the right hand side,
and it was I thought I was gonna die. And
there's like a thousand cars. I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm calling production. Yeah, all of a sudden, this car
pulls up behind me. Yeah, like what do you need?
I'm like gas? He's like all right, hold.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
On, talk about totally.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Did you know your phone number? No?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, I mean I was like, who are you?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
And apparently it was like George Byrne.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
And apparently they.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Have this like Good Samaritan cars that roll around and
see if people need ship. Yeah, that's nute. It was
interesting just.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
In New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
This was in Albuquerque.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, I want to hire a Good Samaritan in
my house.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Good idea.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
You know, that's the title. The title is.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I like that. I think there's something.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Someone who's always there to be like do you are
you too right? What do you need?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Then it turns into a horror film, of course.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
But Good Samaritan is supposed to be free.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, well it's like that is kind of cable guy
is we could do? It's called the Good Samaritan. That
sounds like it's horror. Oh.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I like this idea.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
We're going to work on that after this.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wait.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Wait, so so you ran out of gas one time?
There was that the first time ever?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
No, that was the third time ran in Melburn once.
I just I get I get cocky. You know what
I mean. I get, But what.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Happened I get greedy on your way to Aspen was
he had his truck. Yeah, and then and it just
like blew up. It was about to blow up. His
engine was going to blow up. It's a diesel truck.
I guess something happened.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But the problem is is, yes, don't don't do a
whole I'm not getting into play. Give us the elevator,
G E P A. You know what they've got to
do for small Are.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
You talking about the death the desolately?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, the DF he has the death. But but the
way that the exhaust is created. Now, I learned a
ton basically because of emissions and how how the restrictions
on emissions and how strict they are. Shit has to
get done. You know the diesel trucks are all jacked
up now. It's happening all the time.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yes, by an older truck.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You got buy a truck.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
We could talk about that all day because I think
death is a bunch of bullshit.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
It is there we go, don't kick cabin I started.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I can't stand it.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
You know what it is, I'll tell you what it is.
It's another tax broke that's all it is. And anybody
guy's a diesel knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Next fifteen or thirty bucks a month duty, that's yep,
it is.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
One million percent. I'm thinking about turning, trading my truck
in for like a gas truck, or.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Just get an older diesel man.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Anyway, I found him like face down in the field
and asked been crying. After he found out how much
it was gonna be, he was like, oh my thought
it was ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
The guy cut off.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The guy gave me so nice I loved him.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
His name is a diesel doc fix.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
What was the ten thousand dollar fix on this thing?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, labor was insane.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, and they had to go like a hundred miles.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I forget about as the part that we had to find.
It's called the DFC, you know, because there's the there's
the doc, there's the DFC. The part was on back
order till December, so he had to source it in
different states. Finally found one, and you know, he had
to take the bed of my truck out to get
into the gas tank and to take the whole exhausted.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I don't understand. This is a brand new How could that?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I said, I said, is this do you see this
a lot? He goes, oh yeah yeah with these new diesels?
You know. And this guy is the man. He is
DURAMAC certified, he's the ship.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Isn't it so fucked up that it's easier to get
It's easier for the public to buy a bag of
weed than a manufactured part from a Chevy uh plant.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
It's United States.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Now, that's pretty weird.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's insane. It's so too.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
You're like, that's cool, but my buddy needs a bag
of weed.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Can we get that? Yeah? Bro?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, yeah yeah, something that can like grow in your backyard.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And the problem is, I mean, you know, it's it's
a it's all a fun, it's all a racket, dude,
It's all about.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
The whole thing. Absolutely, you and I certainly we you
and I can certainly wrap on that.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, it was because I because I road trip NonStop. Man.
I love tipping, so yeah, I mean too, that's that's
how I live, you know. Yeah, yeah, And it's it is,
it's NonStop. There's always a part, and there's always a
depending upon where you are. Economy is vastly different.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh my god, yeah, true, yeah. I mean a lot
of people are deleting a lot of their exhaust systems
and all that. I can't. I can't do that because
I live in California and I have to get it
because it's diesel. I have to get a small check
every two years, and so I can't delete anything to
make everything run right and just not have to worry
about it anymore. And y'all tesel doctors. Because he's like, oh,
(12:07):
you need to he goes there's a twenty thousand dollars
fix in the next five years. What's going to go
on with with your injectors? And blah blah blah. He
was giving me the whole rundown. Yeah, I'm gonna buy
like a smart car?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Please?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Do I want to buy a smart cars?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Like?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I didn't tell because I have a boat and a trailer.
I could tell my boat a little smart car.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, you know, it's got the it's got the torque.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Gavin, where do you live?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
I kind of float around, which is odd for people
to hear. I'd say basically out of Nashville based on.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
But you're everywhere.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I uh, I I like to be mobile.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
You know, even when you're not working, just in generally.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, even when I'm not working, I travel. I tend
to travel just with a so I don't know, it's
so weird for people to understand. I don't know why,
but I travel just with a backpack, you know, like
a two day bag, you know, And that's mostly honestly
how I live, which is really weird.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I'm assuming this means you don't have kids, or do
you have kids that also travel with.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I have kids, I just don't ever want to see them.
I don't have kids, No, I have. I have a dog.
I have a dog. He's my you know, that's my
my face, my family.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And so that's your baby.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So what's the longest time you've worn the same underwear
for like two weeks?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like washed?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
No? No, no, no, no, no no no wash. It's
like you just just live in a marinate them for
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Whoever say anything about underwear, bro, I'm good. No, no,
I have don't get me wrong, I have what I need.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Even dude, I know you've got to at least six
days seven days with wearing the same win.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I need to have this conversation.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
No, no, no, we do need to have this conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I don't need to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I only change my underwear when I shower. That's it.
After I shower, So sometimes I don't shower that five days.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Let me let me ask you when you when you
want to save time, when you want to save time
with doing your laundry, do you do what I do
and just wear your underwear into the shower and like,
let me just watch everything.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I do that every time I shower.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I actually wear my undies into the shower every time.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, that's that's the move I do. You know, do
the undies, the socks and a T shirt and you're
half there. That's like, that's like one extra day done.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
So I'm going to add on to this, you know.
I just recently did this thing where I was like, actually,
to Johan's birthday, we went to Europe for eight nine
eight days, nine days, and I was like, I'm not packing,
I'm not checking shit. I can't handle it anymore. I
don't ever want to do it again. Yeah, what can
I get into two carry ons?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
And it was why bother the best? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, I'm like that, So did you end up with.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Two carry ons.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, it was awesome. I was so happy and Dan
and I like were like, why have we why do
we ever track it back?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I'm into it.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
The the uh, when you first start touring, like like
music touring, you think, I got to bring an outfit
for this day, and I should have another wardrobe for
that day and this day and that day, And then
over the years you realize at least I didn't. I
didn't have the discipline to end up getting to the
(15:53):
bottom of my bags anyway. I'd end up wearing like
the same pair of jeans for a week, and you know,
and over the years, finally, like my last European run,
I had my backpack and I had another small duffel
and that was my clothes for the month.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
But you had stage clothes.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
No, that was my stage clothes. That was a little thing.
I was like, you know, people aren't coming to my
My audience doesn't come to my show for a light
show or you know, so so they're coming to hear
a songwriter, right, So and I realized that, and uh,
you know, I just thought it was more freeing normal
(16:36):
and trying to be like, hey, let me try to
dress cool and ships.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well it's the nature of you and
your music, like you are, you need to be yourself.
I like outfits, ye mean, it's authentic to you. Gavin
comes out in like Ryan Stone, fucking like studded boot
He looked, yeah, well yeah, yeah, the costume gotta be careful,
you know, because Jacky, but it is okay to wear
(17:04):
a belt buckle that shaped like a dick? Do you
do that? Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
My god?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Who is it? Who on the scene? Who in your world?
And your genre of music is actually like the most
outfits you know what I mean? Are there? God?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
There have so many out like.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Dora or like one of those Nashville kind of hats
a little while and then it was too much luggage
for me because I wasn't going to get a hat box. Yeah,
one of those big fucking hats on the plane because
that guy.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Then wherever then where you pay your right? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
You just like, you know, all hat and no cattle
and you're and it just looks silly, like what are
you doing? You're sitting on the Southwest flight with a
giant hat on? You know? Yeah, showtime, bro, you know, showtime.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I'll never forget walking. I was twenty one and went
onto the concord, which was like I guess, like a
month before they went away, and I or maybe I
was twenty and I wore a hat just because I
was so excited.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I wore.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
You know what, it was a vintage like seventies hat
that I looked that was that was like, you know,
at least three feet right.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Oh my god, you looked like that, like the pimp
from I'm Going to Get You.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yet I was.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I was literally like the biggest.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Green resh.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
First of all, I was on the same concord. Bowie
was on the concord with Emon. I'll never forget walking
by him with my big hat.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
He liked it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
He liked it, but everyone else hated it. And I
remember it was so embarrassing. By the time I got
to my seat, I didn't realize how small it was,
so I was just hitting everybody with my So I
was that asshole. Just so you know, I was.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Where are you right now? I know you probably already
asked this.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
I'm in New York. I've got a We're doing a
video shoot tomorrow for this tune for the the twenty
aniversary of my first record.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Let's back up, we got what went right into these.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But let's that's the backup.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I am the back I always speaking of.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't back up. And when I say that, I
mean actually literally, Like if we're driving down on a
road trip and the kids want McDonald's and we pass
on and I don't make the exit or whatever, my
wife's like, we'll just turn around. I'm like, no, no, I
always move forward. I cannot go backward forward.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
You know what I say forward, I only go forward.
I run out of gas.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I'm not going to turn around to get off and
go back, like we'll find the next one, even if
it's sixteen miles down the road.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Well not if you're in that long stretch between like.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Well, yeah, that's going to call it.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, No, No, that's seventy five miles stretch.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I don't like going back.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I want to go back. Where did you grow up?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
From? A town in the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York.
It's a prison town called Fallsburg, New York. So it's
like one of those one of those towns you're trying
to get out of, you know, when you're you're like,
I got to get out of here, you.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Know how far from the city.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
It's about an hour and forty five minutes from New
York City.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Is it one prison or is this a place where
there's multiple three prisons?
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, I know this, but it was all of those
towns like it had beautiful uh you know, the landscape
is beautiful, rolling hills, very very green, but no jobs,
you know, no jobs. So it was just economically really
really really tough, tough place. And what the weird part
(20:47):
of the story though of that town is that it
used to be Have you seen dirty dancing? Yeah, so
it used to be of course that area, that's the
area dirty dancing is based off of. Oh the hotel
industry died up there, who knows what reasons. And then
the state, you know, to provide jobs, built prisons in
(21:08):
the in the town, and that's the main economy, uh,
in the area. So so it was it was a
it was an odd environment. I still go up there
and see, you know, see friends of mine, and I
still love, you know, my my core group of friends.
I like to there's a community people I still really
like up there, and and I love the area itself visually,
(21:31):
but it's just a tough, tough place.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
How big of a place is it? Is it small
like population.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Well, I graduated with eighty people.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Right, And and your father was a prison guard.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, my dad was a guard, My uncle was a guard.
My other uncle did prison psych and uh, yeah, it's
just it's just a that's the economy, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Were you ever set to do that or was it
ever just part of what you needed to do now.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
That never, that never would have crossed my mind, you know,
And so I wasn't I wasn't steered that direction.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
How did your father and how did the all of
the brothers end up there?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
It was just, you know, they didn't leave the area
because there was family in the area. So you don't
want to lose leave your family to go chase money.
It's better off. And the thinking is, you know, we
had a very tribal sort of our family is really tribal,
and that we had a lot of a lot of
family members. We all spend a lot of time together,
family reunions, you know, and it's very familiar, familial. So
(22:32):
it wasn't about going and chasing money in a new town.
It was more about the family's going to stay together regardless. Yeah, sure,
you know, we're everybody has money problems, but it's more
important that the family be together, and.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
That was the that was the driver family, meaning even
like aunts, uncles, cousins, like, oh yeah, right, as I'm saying,
like big extended families are going to stay together.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Oh yeah yeah. And I've got a family in other
parts of the country, but you know, there's a lot
of family in upstate.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So and what about your siblings? How many siblings?
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I have two? My sister lives in Nashville. My brother
lives in Nashville. That's I mean, that's what we're all
based out of. Oh, great, sister's the oldest. I'm the baby,
if you could tell by my diaper.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But but yeah, are you and are you all super close?
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, you we're close.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And your mom? What did your mom do?
Speaker 4 (23:27):
My mom was a nurse, and she she was a
well she was an iran and then she was a
nurse practitioner. Her last job was she was a nurse
practitioner for a drug and alcohol detox. So I guess
there was a good part of all of this, which
was no matter what I did, it wasn't quite as
(23:49):
bad as what my parents were around at all times. Now,
as my dad was watching, I don't know if you've
ever heard Son of Sam. Yeah, Dad watched Son of
Sam every day. And Willie Buyt Skid and Ronnie the
Fay player like guys were like in the in the prison,
you know, that was his day jobs. He'd clock out
and he'd come home and I didn't have a curfew,
(24:11):
you know. Uh. It was just they were pretty loose
in that in that regard because it was just compared
to what they were seeing, nothing was a big deal.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Right, well he's not he's not the Son of Sam, so.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Right, he's not killing anybody, and you know, and and
we don't think he's doing heroin, so you know, and
that was really the that was pretty much the you know,
the the comparison. And you know, I was only told
all I was told when I was go out, all
I was told I would to go out as a
teenager was don't make me sorry. That was it. You know,
(24:45):
it wasn't it wasn't come home at eleven, It wasn't
you know, don't drugs. It was don't make me sorry.
That was That was it. That was the whole That
was the whole thing. So they're they're pretty loose in
that regard, and they and they love music, and they
both really fundamentally were artistic and artists. You know, they
(25:06):
were at Woodstock together. My dad played in bands for
you know, twenty twenty years and.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Oh really, what instrument did he play?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
He played guitar and he sang, but he could sit
down and play the piano. I mean, he was just
good at stuff. And my granddad played everything. You know.
We just a lot of music in the family. And
my mom would play church and write songs and play
piano and guitar and sing and and and so I
came from this family of people who loved the arts,
(25:35):
you know, on both sides. My great granddad was the
dance instructor at a hotel in the Catskills, and he
would make kids give dance lessons to the guests.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know, he's like Patrick Swayzey.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
He was Patrick Y, right exactly. We all wish, right. So,
so yeah, that was his that was his gig. And
and and I always and I was told that there
was a really funny story as to how that side
of the family ended up in upstate New York from
the city because they were they were Brooklyn Nights, you know,
(26:11):
they were from Brighton, from Brighton beach and uh, and
all my grandmother told me was, I don't know why,
but for whatever reason, when I was thirteen years old,
my father came home in the middle of the night
and said, you have five minutes, everybody to pack your
shit and were leaving. Oh and they fled Brooklyn and
(26:37):
moved to the cat Skills in the middle of the night.
And she said he never talked about it, and we
didn't ask questions, and that's how.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Are you Italian? No Irish?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
That side of the family was Russian Jews and yeah,
and uh.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Wow, I'm wait wait still to this day, no one
knows we got it.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, I don't know. I knew that her brother was
a was a professional fighter, and uh, his name was
Bobby Burns, and I think he I don't know, he
may have been doing something.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And whatever, whatever it was, someone got mixed up in
some yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah, and that's at that side of the family ended
up in upstate New York. And and but I don't know,
you know, wow.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Don't you love don't you love family? Like the lore
like we have so much of that in ours. Sure, yeah,
we we just found out that another thing, I know.
We don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
That's not even real.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
It's no typical not our dad apparently now there's no
which I think he's gotta be kidding.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
It's going to be dad sense of.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Humor, because yeah, our father has a very like.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
That's kind of his sense of well, but maybe he's
not a lot.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Maybe he's been holding back on that.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I mean, we do all right, well, yes, we are
all very intensely.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
We also are supposedly related to uh big Seleerno.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I think I think that's I think that's that's seemingly really.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Out of the Jena basic crime family.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
You know, that's definitely. I mean I had someone who
just came out of jail one time. This guy he
was a mafia guy and he sort of had to
serve like eight years or something. He came out and
I ran into him at a restaurant. He goes and
I know you. He goes, I know your family, and
I was like what He's like, yeah, I know your family.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
From jail or somewhere Italy jail.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
So yeah, we're like, that's nice. Bye. And we were
at crossroads at the Vegan Place.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah. Man, hey, the dynamics are there, you know it
reminds you. And there's a like, it's likely that there
is some truth to all of it because the world
is small. We're all related a little bit.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
So does your sister. I know your brother plays music.
Does your sister play?
Speaker 4 (29:16):
So I didn't play music.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
She was.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
She was primarily a visual artist, like you know, that
was her passion. That's not what she's like doing doing,
but that was her her skill set, you know. Really
her thing was being a visual artist, which she was
really gifted at. He wasn't a singer for but for
whatever reason, she couldn't help it. Singing thirds perfect thirds
were funny. It was always a perfect third. We're like,
(29:43):
this is.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know naturally that was her thing. You know.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, and she uh and her her stories, you know,
this family story is all it's all kind of wild
stuff too because we found out, you know, that her father,
her biological father, was different than mine. So my father adopted.
My father and mother were high school sweethearts. He got
drafted for Vietnam. My mother went off to Boston College
(30:15):
and then met another guy. You know. My dad was
in the army and then had my sister. But but
my father married her when my sister was six months old.
So that's the only father my sister knew. And in
later life, just a couple of years back, you know,
she she really found out more about the biological father,
(30:37):
and he was he had recently passed, and she found
like she found another sibling, a sister, you know, half sister,
and found out the guy was in a biker gang.
You know, he was like, you know, he died like,
you know, seventy years old as a as a biker
you know, and so yeah, it was just like all
(30:59):
this the stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
You know, Wait, when when when your dad went to Vietnam?
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Was your mom? No, my dad was drafted for Vietnam
and ended up fortunately ended up stationed in Germany, and
my brother way my father. So which is why my
father would tell me, hey, Gavi, and you know, you're
a really good singer. I say, thanks, Dad, He goes,
you know, I got good singers all over Germany.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
It sounds like our father did they break, did they break?
Did they break up like when he went to Germany?
Speaker 4 (31:35):
No, they they yeah, they got Yeah, they were separated,
they were separated. But then you know, my assumption is,
you know, right, right, and.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Then you met someone and whatever, and then they got
back together.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
When he got home, she was being a hippie and
you know, he was carrying an M sixteen, you know,
so that you know, yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That was very of the time.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
My father in law.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
There was a lot of guys in the ms with
her carrying was that were hippies too, right.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's my father in law was in Germany, got drafts,
went to Germany. It was an MP.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Well there you go as well.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, and it only is the best father in law ever.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Oh really, Oh that's cool, good back, that's cool. And
what's funny is both my folks really were hippies. In fact,
my dad told me, he said, I was at Woodstock
with your mother and I had my draft card in
my back pocket for Vietnam, and I was leaving after
the weekend. And so because I grew up only twenty
(32:35):
twenty twenty five minutes from the original Woodstock site from
from Bethel, that's that's where we would, you know, as teenagers,
we go out there and have drum circles and you know,
and fuck all and you know, have fun. You know,
I lost my cherry on that field myself, so you know,
it's just a make sure of you know, the area
(32:55):
at the time, you know. And but my dad told
me this fucking great story about about being at at
woods the Woodstock festival at the time. He said, you know,
he was no business man, he said. So I went
there and I had I had driven my my family's
(33:16):
dump truck to the property. I had carpeted the back
of it because they had a small construction business and
which was always in failure, right, and uh so, like
carpeted the back of this dump truck. So I was like, well,
fucking hang out there, you know, me and my friends
and will party. And but I had brought a bunch
of records to sell it Woodstock. Terrible idea, like I
(33:36):
should have sold watermelon. It's like Charlie Wiener, that was
a good idea. So anyway, he said, Papa Tent and
me and my buddy I think his name is Rubinstein
were standing out there and we got these records, and
he said, I got my back to the to the
to the the tables, and apparently this guy went up
(33:58):
to my companion and he was a biker, and he said, oh,
this looks good. I think I'll take this, and he
was staring at a ball, you know, kind of a
record a biker would never buy. It's like a Joan
Baiez record, right, And he goes, oh, this looks good.
I think I'll take this. And he's being like really brawny,
you know, and he goes, oh, okay, but you know
(34:18):
it's it's six dollars or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
He goes, no, I think I'll just take it. So
he goes over. So the guy who is with my
father walks over to my daddy says, hey, Wayne, Wayne.
And my dad had a great name was John Wayne
to grow of course, and he went by Wayne, amazing name.
And he goes, Wayne, Wayne, that this guy, he really
he's being threatening and he wants the record. He wants
(34:43):
to take this record out. I don't think he wants
to pay for it. He said, well, he's got to
pay like everybody else. He does. But Wayne, Wayne, he's
a biker. He's a biker. Tell him he's got to
pay like everybody fucking else. But Wayne, he's in the gang.
He's in the gang.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I don't give he.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Said, tell him he's gonna pay like everybody else. My
dad a terribly, terribly hot temper, and so he goes,
but Wayne, she don't even know the name of the gang.
And he goes, what's the name of the gang? And
he goes, Wayne, they're called the motherfuckers.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
My dad goes, what he goes, motherfuckers, Wayne, the motherfuckers,
my dad said, He goes, I turned around, I went,
you're gonna love that record.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Well, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
That's funny, dude, the motherfucker.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
And you could have I mean, nineteen sixty nine, that
language is that much more like well.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're called the mother
fuckers in nineteen sixty nine. You just step away. You know,
I'm gonna start a gang called the motherfuckers.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Jesus, what do you do. You're like, here's the record exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, you're really fantasy love that record, right, Give my regards,
Give my regards to the motherfuckers.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Tell the rest of those motherfuckers anything, Tell the rest
of those motherfuckers any simon that they want to hear
the right.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
That's so funny.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
So you get into music, your brother, like, how when
was the moment that you were like, oh, this is
just what I want to do always and forever. This
is it.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
When did I make the decision to like, I.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Can't see myself wanting to do anything other than me. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Well I loved it, of course, you know, I was
a kid. I was my dad's My dad put it,
he was like, man, you were singing in the cradle
gab before he could talk. You were singing. And my
brother thought I had a singing disease. He actually asked
my uncle Richie if he thought it was possible to
have a disease of singing, because I wouldn't shut the
fuck up. All right, So, so we we had a
(37:22):
for Christmas one year, we had a our gift as
a family was we'd all go to a concert. And
that concert was a Billie Joel concert. And I was fifteen,
and uh, and of course I was already, you know,
playing music, and I already took music seriously, and I
was enjoying myself. But I thought playing music was a
selfish way to make a living. And part of that
is probably because we grew up in the church so heavily,
(37:44):
I mean really really deep in the church, almost almost
like a coltish level. Like we went to church at
the American Legion every Sunday, right, So, so it was
it was like heavy, you know, it was post hippie chapter.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
H church, right, and the church was so like Christian, like.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Yeah yeah, like n again. And by the way, I'm
happy I did all that stuff because it was you know,
it's foundation pretty interesting, you know, it's where you're coming from.
So and I still have I still have a degree
of faith, and I and I still have the same
struggles with faith and just like everybody else and and
(38:29):
and it's all a jumping off point and so anyway,
but I did think playing music for a living may
have been a selfish path, right, and it probably had
a lot to do with the constant, uh, the church
teachings you know of like you know, service and Jesus
and you know, helping people and things like that. So
(38:51):
I thought maybe playing music wasn't going to help enough people, right.
So you know what I want to make the blind see,
I want to be an ophthalmologist. I want to I
want to be as I want to be an eye doctor.
Blah blah blah blah blah. A child, a child's desire
to you know, fulfill this wish list, right. But when
I saw Billy Joel play a show, and I saw
(39:14):
the reaction of people around me who I'd never met before,
and I saw what was happening to them. You know,
it was so emotional watching them receive joy in a
group setting. That's the first time it dawned on me
that music really helps people in a very particular way.
It's not going to heal people. But I thought, wow,
(39:36):
this is actually, this is a this is a service.
And he he obviously loves doing it. I love doing it.
This is what I can I can do this like this.
Actually this would be a good life choice.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Fifteen. Yeah, And we got in the car, the family
got in the car, and as soon as we got
in the car, I said, I know what I want
to do now, I know what I want to do
for a living. And I said, my dad says, what
do you want to do. I said, I'm going to
do that. I'm going to do what he does. I
want to do it just like that. And he said
it looks like fun, doesn't it. I said yes, And
he said, and that's what she'll do, right. And it
(40:15):
was that simple. It was very uh, there was no
it wasn't combative.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Very rare for you know, I mean, I guess because
he's musical. Your father understands the connection. A lot of times,
when when one doesn't understand the connection to an art,
you know, a parent, it can be hard to understand
and know, and knowing how competitive the field is, it
(40:40):
could be a hard thing to say.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Had you written any songs at that point at fifteen?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, I've written a couple of really shitty songs
for sure, a couple of singers, you know. So, but uh,
and I only did that. I mean, I was writing
songs when I was like a little kid, you know,
like just me of all the time, his music ideas constantly.
And then I hung that up and I started learning
cover songs. Then my brother who's four grades above me,
(41:09):
three and a half years older, who was also a musician,
he goes, I want to write some songs, and I said, well,
the great one's already written, you know. He goes, yeah,
but if you don't write the songs, why should anybody
remember you? And I said, all right, well, good point.
And you know immediately you know, of course that day
it's a challenge from your older brother. You have to
do it right. And so he was also the instrumental
(41:35):
in that too, because he challenged me a lot. And
he was also kind of a natural born authority hater
and you know, just just anti structure, you know, in life,
you know.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Which I like, how many years older is he.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Three and a half years?
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Three and a half?
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yeah, so four grades?
Speaker 3 (41:54):
And did you play together?
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Yeah, we played music together. In fact, he got me
my first regular type of gig at a bar, which
was you know, the drinking age is twenty one, so
when you're sixteen you start drinking bars, right, so and
or fifteen and so, you know, it was so you know,
(42:17):
and and so my brother was was out at the bars,
you know, we're we're in high school, and he was
going to a bar in the next town over and
there was a guy doing a Tuesday night open mic
sort of thing, jam kind of thing, and he got
to know the bartender pretty good, because that's what you
do when you're in high school. You get to know
(42:38):
the bartender pretty good. And he said, Hey, my brother
plays music and he's good. Can we think you'd be
able to get him into the bar and play some music,
you know, And he was like, yeah, hell yeah, why
not have fuck it? And so so he could. My
brother came home, he goes, they got his permission to
go in, let's go and play some songs and whatever.
(42:59):
So we started doing that. The best part about it
was it was right across the street from the police station.
And you know, and uh and and you know, I guess,
I guess doing breaking the laws just fun when you're young,
just in general. And uh, you know, it's kind of
like what you do, and you know, it's just fun.
(43:20):
Rebellion is good, right, you know, it's the whole thing
about being young.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
So how long did you do that?
Speaker 4 (43:26):
I would do it every week and I quit sports
and uh and uh, cause it was kind of like
what do I want to do? Do I want to
do I want to hang out after school with people
with kids, or like do I want to like work
on this skill set and meet women? You know? And
(43:47):
uh and uh, you're in high school, so it's a
very big deal. You're like at fifteen, you're hanging out
with adults. It was just better for me. Uh, you know,
I was already sleeping in school anyway, so so you know,
it was just you know, I can never sleep at night,
so it was better off if I was out working
at night, playing bars, you know, during the weekdays. Even
(44:09):
though I was in high school.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Now, do you remember a moment when you wrote your
first song that you were like, I think I'm good
at this. I think I'm actually I think I'm actually
really good at this.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
Well, when you're writing songs and you're fifteen, you think
you're good at everything anyway, and you suck and and
so if god, if I was to go back and
dig up some of the material, you would have such
a laugh right now.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
But you had the confidence then, is what you're saying,
Like you felt confident?
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Oh god, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, kidding. You're you know,
you're you're young. You're young, and you're doing something that
is unusual in the small environment that you're in, the
small pond that you're in. So therefore it's already you're
already getting five points out of ten just for being different, right, So,
(45:14):
and so you know, you're only like one or two
points away from walking on water as far as you're concerned,
because it's because you really think what you're doing is
really good, even if you suck at it, like you know, So,
so if I go back and listen to myself right
now at fifteen, I would I'm telling you, I guarantee
you I would not be able to get through fifteen
seconds of it. So but you know, you have neighbors
(45:39):
and friends and family and they're being supportive and they
want to help you, and they want they want you
to get out of there too, right, So they're championing you,
and they're believers, and they're and they're and they're they're
trying to help you. You know, they're trying to be
a springboard for you, and they were they were a
tremendous health And then the part of that, and I
(46:00):
think what they're giving you is something that's better than money,
which is confidence, right, m yeah, because because confidence is
totally invaluable. You can't put a number on on confidence.
It is absolutely the against all odds mathematics is confidence, right.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
I really, I really I feel that. So I really
understand that because it took even for me with music,
even a couple people who really allowed gave me even
more confidence to feel like I could do it, you
know absolutely, meaning like just not doubt myself, you know, yes,
(46:39):
to have a stronger belief in the art, you know,
and my writing and everything.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Oh yeah, when did it happen?
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Like, yeah, what was your that was going to be
about that.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
I know, like great when we were like holy shit,
like making money. I was making money from a pretty
early age, you know, just playing bars of making big money.
And then I and then you know, I would I
would often play songs I was working on to my family,
right because I respected taste, and I played played my
(47:12):
music for friends of mine that I was working on.
If they're like, you know, sings, you sing it good,
you know, then you're like a song sucks, right, But
but I would always play it for them. And one
day I wrote this song and I was playing it
for my brother, and he would always be like, hey,
(47:32):
that's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good.
One day, I was playing the song at the an apartment.
We were living together in an apartment in Hell's Kitchen
in New York on forty ninth and h and ninth.
It was the end of the nineties, and uh, we
were living together, and I played him the chorus. I
(47:54):
finished the song. I played the last chorus and I
never saw him react before like this, and he goes,
that's your fucking hit. You finally got one, You finally
got a fucking hit song. You fucking did it and
I said, really, He goes, yes, that's a hit song,
and it was, and it became my first hit single.
(48:16):
You know, it was I Don't Want to Be And.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
That was that because that was that when you and that,
that was enormous. I mean that came out and it
must have just completely.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Yeah, it changed my life.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
It changed your life? Now, were you signed at the time?
Speaker 4 (48:31):
Not when I played him that song. I mean, prior
to that, I was, you know, I've been doing the
grind since I was a teenager. So I had a
I'm trying not to tell the longest version of the story,
but I had initially been given a record record deal
offer from RCA in nineteen ninety seven, and I was
(48:56):
like twenty at the time because I played one gig
in New York City. They had heard a demo I
had sent in through a manager that had met an
upstate New York and they were great people, and the Pratts,
and they had they had sent this uh recording and
the head of an r RCA had heard it and
she goes, I want to meet the guy. You know,
I think there's some good stuff here. So I did
(49:18):
a showcase. It made me an offer and it wasn't
really a good offer. And uh and and and they're
they're to me, Oh, you're the next Paul Simon, You're this,
you're that. And I said, that's great. But it didn't
the contract didn't read that way, so I said, and
I'm twenty. I said, uh, it doesn't read that way.
So that it tells me I'm not ready. It's a
more reflection on me than you. And uh, and I'm
(49:41):
happy to, you know, come back at another time. And
at the time, I was working like at a lumber yard,
you know, in upstate New York. And uh and uh,
you know, no harm, no foul. And I had a
little bit of a relationship with these these people. They
were very nice, but I didn't think it was I
wasn't upset with them. I saw it as I just
still suck, you know, and I need to get better.
(50:04):
I need to write better songs. But I hadn't written
that song by then, And there were a lot of
songs I hadn't written by then. But maybe one or
two of those songs I had written by then. But
then I did a publishing deal with Warner, so I
was writing for Warner, and I was twenty two and
(50:25):
then yeah, I was twenty two or twenty three with
the guy who brought me a named Randy Sabastin, who
I liked a lot. And then Nile Rodgers was coming
out to the gigs, who was like a big producer,
writer guy, and then he and I started. He wanted
to produce me, right, so we made a record together,
(50:47):
like a half a record, But I didn't like the
terms of the deal that were being offered at that time,
so I was like, I don't want to do the deal.
And then years went by, and then I signed a deal.
Once I developed a following in New York playing live,
then the deal started just coming from other other record
(51:10):
companies and then they and then the contract started reading
a lot better, right.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
And Chariot twenty is the album that had I don't
want to be on it, right, I mean that yeah,
And that was your big.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
Yeah, that opened a lot of doors for me. Well,
I got a phone call from a guy. His name
was Joe Devola, and I was walking around the East
Village at the time. At that point point, I was
living in kind of at the edge Alphabet City and
like two thousand and like three, and I got a
phone two thousand, Yeah, two two thousand and three, I
(51:43):
got a phone call from this guy and he goes, hey,
man's Joe Devola. You know I owned these I won
these TV shows. I own them, I create them. I
created a lot of shows for MTV. I created the
first non music show at MTV called Remote Control. He
took me down his whole thing, you know, and I
loved it. I love this whole He had this whole
(52:04):
great persona and delivery, and he seemed so sincerea. And
and he said, I wanna I want to put a
song of yours on this show. And I said, uh,
what kind of show? He said, it's a TV show.
I said, Nah, don't do TV. I don't do TV.
I'm I'm cool like that. I'm too cool for fucking TV.
(52:27):
I don't do TV. I don't do movies. I want
to be famous without anyone never knowing who I am.
So he was like, what are you talking about. I
was like, no, no, I don't do TV. I don't
do ads, I don't do movies. I don't want anyone
to know.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
What I look like, you know.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
And he was like, all right, let me put it
to you like this. You have to help me help you.
If you want your music to be heard, I have
a platform to do it. You gotta let me do it.
I said, absolutely not TV's lame.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
No, that was the TV.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
I had issues with it. I have no idea why
I was What was the show though? It was a
show called One Tree Hill and so he goes.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
And so so.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
I think it was all based on going up in
this hippie area. Were being related with anything corporate.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
It was also that was very of the time too.
You know, it was no but everybody was too cool
to do anything other than what they did and it
wasn't the right thing. And if you did that, then
you're sellout. I mean that was like, and you're.
Speaker 4 (53:38):
In the East Village, man, you know, like you know, yeah,
by you know, Ryan Adams is walking by there with
a couple.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
Yeah, by the way, we were there too. We were
in Chelsea. Chris and I were living in Chelsea at
the time, in like a four story walk up right.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
I said, I don't want to be affiliated with TV.
TV has no cred, you know, I'm cred. And he goes,
let me ask you a question, Gavin, how much money
do you have in the bank right now? And I
go you man, and which we started laughing. You know,
(54:15):
he goes, no, seriously, how much? I said, not a lot, Joe,
not a lot. He goes, would you like a lot more? Uh?
Huh sounds pretty good. So he goes, I'm not going
to touch your music. All I'm going to do is
play your music. You don't even have to be in
the ads. No one's going to see you, none of it.
(54:36):
I was like, okay, cool. So then the phone rang
again and it was another creator and they go, hey,
we want to use another one of your songs, but
a different song for another show. And by that point,
Joe had already convinced me what to do? You know,
I was like, use it, use it for that too,
you know, like another So, you know, you change your
mind and there's reality checks there you know where you're going.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Yeah, you started to like open up and I need
to make a look. You got to grow up and
fit you out?
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Yeah? What am I? What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (55:08):
You know? Right?
Speaker 3 (55:09):
You decided to go in the studio and reimagine your
first the first big album, yeah cheeriot.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (55:16):
And what and what what?
Speaker 3 (55:18):
What was the impetus for this?
Speaker 4 (55:20):
Well? It was twenty years it was a great excuse
to revisit this old material that initially had like changed
my life, right, my lifestyle and like my personal world,
and and I had I there's improvements that have happened
for me personally as as an artist. So I've personally
(55:42):
improved at my job. And I wanted to, you know,
perform these songs better than I had on my first record.
It's not that I felt like I didn't do do
the first record service. I was very proud of the
first record. But after living with this songs and performing
these songs and other twenty years thousand times, you know exactly,
(56:08):
I just feel like the performances are better, and I
wanted to document it. You know, a record is a
you know is a doctor.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
So are you re recording? You re recorded the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (56:17):
Yeah, re recorded the whole thing. And I had gone
into the studio with the guy I had worked with
on my last record, and I really love the sonics
and the performances of the last record, which is called
Face the River, and I love the way it sounded.
It sounded just sounded real, sounded authentic, and there's no
real fixing on the record. It's just sort of you know,
(56:37):
it's not it's not auto tuned, and it's not copy pasted,
and it's just very it breathes, and uh, it's very
organic and so and and and it's a producer I
really really respect for this type of project. Name is
Dave Cobb. Of course, I'm sure you heard.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
I loved it. I'm such a big fan of his. Yeah,
she's amazing.
Speaker 4 (57:00):
He is he is amazing, and and and they've they've
likes to make music live, you know, And which is
which is my real my wheelhouse.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
Which is every time I hear like a Nashville artist
or someone and I hear it and I'm like, god,
I love this song. Yeah, I'll go it's like like
maybe nine out of ten times it's cop it's.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, it's yeah. He gets great, you know, great sounds
and great performances out of people, and and and the
recordings just sound authentic. They sound honest, and they.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
The arrangements are the same or do you change.
Speaker 4 (57:35):
It up there? They're they're they're not the same. They're
simplified really and uh, they ripped down more. Yeah, it's
really just four or five guys playing at the same time.
And that's that's the record. Yeah, wait to hear it.
I hope you like it. I hope you like and
it and it.
Speaker 6 (57:51):
It really reminds me of what what those performances, how
they how they sort of come to be in a
live sitting in a bar room or or at somebody's
house when you're hanging.
Speaker 4 (58:04):
Out and you happen to be hanging out some great
musicians and and you go, yoh man, you want to
work something up, and you know, there's some people coming over.
Let's work up a couple of songs for these these guys,
and we'll just hang out and play some music. Yeah,
fuck yeah, let's do it. And and that was really
the process for cutting the record. And it reminded me
of just playing at a bar.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Was there any song that like that, like actually surprised
you when you got back into it, when you that
you kind of went, wow, you know, I actually like
this song even better.
Speaker 4 (58:38):
I mean, honestly, I like, maybe it's just because I'm
older and my taste has become more specific. This is
the type of record that I this these sort of
sonics are the types of records I like to listen to,
you know, at the house. You know, there's a kind
of records.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
I like.
Speaker 4 (58:55):
I like to hear there more, just more. Sic you
think it's basic, It's just simple. I can hear. I
know exactly what the guitar player is doing. I know
exactly what the bass player is doing. I'm not over.
I'm not not inundated with information and notes and and
counter melodies and bills and whistles. I'm not really a
(59:19):
bills and whistles guy.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
Well, I'm so excited to hear. When is it coming out?
Speaker 4 (59:24):
September seven?
Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah, September twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (59:27):
I didn't initially choose this date, but when they told
me the date, O, it's happens to be my dad's
what would have been my dad's birthday. No, oh, amazing.
Speaker 3 (59:37):
It's a leir Dad with a libra. It's a libra album.
Speaker 4 (59:41):
I like it. Oh is that what that means? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (59:44):
You know what I mean. I'm just making this up.
I'm pulling this right out of my heinee. It's a balancing.
It's a it's a balance. It's the scales. It's like
Chariot twenty or it's like you're like balance to you're
balancing it.
Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Nope, I like it. It's just a release, like balance
just a release, just a release, Nope, just Gavin.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
You're the best. This was so much fun. I hope
to actually like you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
See you laying in l A.
Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Yeah, look us up, bucket, we'll do dinner.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Yeah, I'd love.
Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
To Manvin later.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Have the best later brother, See you
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Relationships and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling, Railvalry.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth, Revelry.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
That's good. I am sitting here all by myself because
Oliver's late, apparently he had to get gas. So I
am going to be a good sister, and I'm going
to start this early so we're on time so we
(00:55):
don't leave the wonderful Gavin de Gras waiting for too
long and I can't wait to talk to him, so,
you know, fuck Ollie, let's go. Gavin. Hi. Hi, it's
so nice to see.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
You, see you. You and I were at a party
apparently at the same time, but we did not meet
at that time.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Which party, Oh, at the at the Christmas.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Party, Johan Carlson at the Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
So we have a very close mutual friend, Johann Carlson,
who is a wonderful writer and music producer. Right, and
you've have you worked with Johan?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
You've many times?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Yeah, and you weren't at his fortieth We had a
wild fortieth I saw you on the on the birthday message.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yes, oh yeah, I'm sorry I missed the party.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
It was it was so much fun. You missed a
really good party.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I really wanted to. I had work that landed right
on the day of the party day. I know. No,
it's sometimes.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well align it wasn't really like a normal party. I
mean we were talking a South of France bash.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, I know, it's not fair. Yeah, you really like,
Oh god.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Those are the ones you try to make.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I'm telling you, I'm telling you. No, the few
that I've missed, I missed another one. You know, because
you always hear about some amazing like you know, you
get invited to weird stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
This didn't used to happen to me when I was
living in a prison town. But when I got out
of my prison town, I got invited the cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, but we're going to unpack that, Kevin.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
It should Yes, good, there's a lot. So I got
invited to this party last year, and again I had
work on the exact day this party, and here was
the party. Okay, so here was the party. Here's a
party that I'm still upset that I missed this particular event.
It was a I think it was a Halloween party
(03:06):
at the original castle grounds of Vladdi Impaler, Count Dracula
stop it. Yes, and like, I can't believe I'm going
to miss this thing.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Wait in like Transylvania.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yes, yeah, it was like the most outrageous Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Who threw that party? I can't say, I mean clearly yes,
So of course.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
The guy who invited me. You know, I won't say
whose party, I can't say his party it was, but
I can say I think what makes it even more
interesting and more mysterious is that the guy who invited me,
of course, is a magician, like the kind of guy
who stands in front of you who you know you've
(03:59):
never met before, or yeah, and you know what he
did to me? And here's how I knew he was real.
Oh oh, never met the man. This is a few
years ago. I was at another really interesting, really interesting
invite and it's for first time I met him, and
I said, how do I know if your magic is real?
And he goes, well, have we ever met before? I
(04:21):
said no? And he said do I have any ear
pieces in or anything like that? And I was like,
can I look? He said, yeah, I have a look,
you don't have a look. And he said, do you
need proof that my magic is real? I said, I
need proof that your magic is really h of course,
And he then proceeded to tell me number by number,
(04:44):
my phone number. To me.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
What he.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Walked me off.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
And well he could have like known people that know
you and then like memorized everybody's fine.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
I don't know. There was only one person there who
knew me. Yeah, that's weird, like knew me, knew me.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
But did he guess it through a series of yes
or nose or he just flat out knew your number.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
He did not give me a yes or no other
than not if this is the right number, And he
went and picked the exact number one at a time.
And I was that's crazy, mesmerized and terrified.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I always want to know, like what what is that really?
Like there's something, there's some calculation. It can't just be
like by the way, And I love psychics, like I'm
all for psychics. I'm all for people who are like, listen,
your next five years are going to be amazing. You're
gonna make a ton of money. Your family's super healthy.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
Yeah, give me some more money.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
And I love those I love those, okay, and I
and I choose to believe in it. But oh, there
he is. I started without you. Here's Oliver say.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Hi, Oh hello Oliver.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
How are you? My man? How are you? How are you?
I'm sorry. He almost ran out of gas, so I
had to like get gas.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Speaking of which, that's a whole other thing about Oliver's truck.
Ali is a truck that broke down on the way
to on the way to Colorado to summer. We were
just we just got back.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Oh wait, so did he break down because you also
ran out of gas then too?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
No, but I run out of gap twice in my life. No,
in your life. Well, so I was working in Albuquerque, okay,
and I had to get to set, and it was
early in the morning. I was like, fuck, dude, like,
I'm not gonna make it, but I think I can.
I'm gonna be late, I'm gonna go not gonna make it.
On the freeway, I run out of gas and now
(06:46):
I pull over the shoulder on the right hand side,
and it was I thought I was gonna die. And
there's like a thousand cars. I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm calling production. Yeah, all of a sudden, this car
pulls up behind me. Yeah, like what do you need?
I'm like gas? He's like all right, hold.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
On, talk about totally.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Did you know your phone number? No?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah, I mean I was like, who are you?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
And apparently it was like George Byrne.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
And apparently they.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Have this like Good Samaritan cars that roll around and
see if people need ship. Yeah, that's nute. It was
interesting just.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
In New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
This was in Albuquerque.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, I want to hire a Good Samaritan in
my house.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Good idea.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
You know, that's the title. The title is.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I like that. I think there's something.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Someone who's always there to be like do you are
you too right? What do you need?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Then it turns into a horror film, of course.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
But Good Samaritan is supposed to be free.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, well it's like that is kind of cable guy
is we could do? It's called the Good Samaritan. That
sounds like it's horror. Oh.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I like this idea.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
We're going to work on that after this.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wait.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Wait, so so you ran out of gas one time?
There was that the first time ever?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
No, that was the third time ran in Melburn once.
I just I get I get cocky. You know what
I mean. I get, But what.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Happened I get greedy on your way to Aspen was
he had his truck. Yeah, and then and it just
like blew up. It was about to blow up. His
engine was going to blow up. It's a diesel truck.
I guess something happened.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But the problem is is, yes, don't don't do a
whole I'm not getting into play. Give us the elevator,
G E P A. You know what they've got to
do for small Are.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
You talking about the death the desolately?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, the DF he has the death. But but the
way that the exhaust is created. Now, I learned a
ton basically because of emissions and how how the restrictions
on emissions and how strict they are. Shit has to
get done. You know the diesel trucks are all jacked
up now. It's happening all the time.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yes, by an older truck.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
You got buy a truck.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
We could talk about that all day because I think
death is a bunch of bullshit.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
It is there we go, don't kick cabin I started.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I can't stand it.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
You know what it is, I'll tell you what it is.
It's another tax broke that's all it is. And anybody
guy's a diesel knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I'm with you.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Next fifteen or thirty bucks a month duty, that's yep,
it is.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
One million percent. I'm thinking about turning, trading my truck
in for like a gas truck, or.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Just get an older diesel man.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Anyway, I found him like face down in the field
and asked been crying. After he found out how much
it was gonna be, he was like, oh my thought
it was ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
The guy cut off.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
The guy gave me so nice I loved him.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
His name is a diesel doc fix.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
What was the ten thousand dollar fix on this thing?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, labor was insane.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, and they had to go like a hundred miles.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I forget about as the part that we had to find.
It's called the DFC, you know, because there's the there's
the doc, there's the DFC. The part was on back
order till December, so he had to source it in
different states. Finally found one, and you know, he had
to take the bed of my truck out to get
into the gas tank and to take the whole exhausted.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
I don't understand. This is a brand new How could that?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I said, I said, is this do you see this
a lot? He goes, oh yeah yeah with these new diesels?
You know. And this guy is the man. He is
DURAMAC certified, he's the ship.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Isn't it so fucked up that it's easier to get
It's easier for the public to buy a bag of
weed than a manufactured part from a Chevy uh plant.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
It's United States.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Now, that's pretty weird.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It's insane. It's so too.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
You're like, that's cool, but my buddy needs a bag
of weed.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Can we get that? Yeah? Bro?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, yeah yeah, something that can like grow in your backyard.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And the problem is, I mean, you know, it's it's
a it's all a fun, it's all a racket, dude,
It's all about.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
The whole thing. Absolutely, you and I certainly we you
and I can certainly wrap on that.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, it was because I because I road trip NonStop. Man.
I love tipping, so yeah, I mean too, that's that's
how I live, you know. Yeah, yeah, And it's it is,
it's NonStop. There's always a part, and there's always a
depending upon where you are. Economy is vastly different.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Oh my god, yeah, true, yeah. I mean a lot
of people are deleting a lot of their exhaust systems
and all that. I can't. I can't do that because
I live in California and I have to get it
because it's diesel. I have to get a small check
every two years, and so I can't delete anything to
make everything run right and just not have to worry
about it anymore. And y'all tesel doctors. Because he's like, oh,
(12:07):
you need to he goes there's a twenty thousand dollars
fix in the next five years. What's going to go
on with with your injectors? And blah blah blah. He
was giving me the whole rundown. Yeah, I'm gonna buy
like a smart car?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Please?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Do I want to buy a smart cars?
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Like?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I didn't tell because I have a boat and a trailer.
I could tell my boat a little smart car.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Yeah, you know, it's got the it's got the torque.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Gavin, where do you live?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
I kind of float around, which is odd for people
to hear. I'd say basically out of Nashville based on.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
But you're everywhere.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
I uh, I I like to be mobile.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
You know, even when you're not working, just in generally.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, even when I'm not working, I travel. I tend
to travel just with a so I don't know, it's
so weird for people to understand. I don't know why,
but I travel just with a backpack, you know, like
a two day bag, you know, And that's mostly honestly
how I live, which is really weird.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
I'm assuming this means you don't have kids, or do
you have kids that also travel with.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I have kids, I just don't ever want to see them.
I don't have kids, No, I have. I have a dog.
I have a dog. He's my you know, that's my
my face, my family.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And so that's your baby.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So what's the longest time you've worn the same underwear
for like two weeks?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Like washed?
Speaker 2 (13:41):
No? No, no, no, no, no no no wash. It's
like you just just live in a marinate them for
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
Whoever say anything about underwear, bro, I'm good. No, no,
I have don't get me wrong, I have what I need.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Even dude, I know you've got to at least six
days seven days with wearing the same win.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I need to have this conversation.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
No, no, no, we do need to have this conversation.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I don't need to be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I only change my underwear when I shower. That's it.
After I shower, So sometimes I don't shower that five days.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Let me let me ask you when you when you
want to save time, when you want to save time
with doing your laundry, do you do what I do
and just wear your underwear into the shower and like,
let me just watch everything.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I do that every time I shower.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
That's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I actually wear my undies into the shower every time.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yeah, that's that's the move I do. You know, do
the undies, the socks and a T shirt and you're
half there. That's like, that's like one extra day done.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
So I'm going to add on to this, you know.
I just recently did this thing where I was like, actually,
to Johan's birthday, we went to Europe for eight nine
eight days, nine days, and I was like, I'm not packing,
I'm not checking shit. I can't handle it anymore. I
don't ever want to do it again. Yeah, what can
I get into two carry ons?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
And it was why bother the best? Oh?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, I'm like that, So did you end up with.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Two carry ons.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, it was awesome. I was so happy and Dan
and I like were like, why have we why do
we ever track it back?
Speaker 4 (15:31):
I'm into it.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
The the uh, when you first start touring, like like
music touring, you think, I got to bring an outfit
for this day, and I should have another wardrobe for
that day and this day and that day, And then
over the years you realize at least I didn't. I
didn't have the discipline to end up getting to the
(15:53):
bottom of my bags anyway. I'd end up wearing like
the same pair of jeans for a week, and you know,
and over the years, finally, like my last European run,
I had my backpack and I had another small duffel
and that was my clothes for the month.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
But you had stage clothes.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
No, that was my stage clothes. That was a little thing.
I was like, you know, people aren't coming to my
My audience doesn't come to my show for a light
show or you know, so so they're coming to hear
a songwriter, right, So and I realized that, and uh,
you know, I just thought it was more freeing normal
(16:36):
and trying to be like, hey, let me try to
dress cool and ships.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well it's the nature of you and
your music, like you are, you need to be yourself.
I like outfits, ye mean, it's authentic to you. Gavin
comes out in like Ryan Stone, fucking like studded boot
He looked, yeah, well yeah, yeah, the costume gotta be careful,
you know, because Jacky, but it is okay to wear
(17:04):
a belt buckle that shaped like a dick? Do you
do that? Oh?
Speaker 3 (17:09):
My god?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Who is it? Who on the scene? Who in your world?
And your genre of music is actually like the most
outfits you know what I mean? Are there? God?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
There have so many out like.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Dora or like one of those Nashville kind of hats
a little while and then it was too much luggage
for me because I wasn't going to get a hat box. Yeah,
one of those big fucking hats on the plane because
that guy.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Then wherever then where you pay your right? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
You just like, you know, all hat and no cattle
and you're and it just looks silly, like what are
you doing? You're sitting on the Southwest flight with a
giant hat on? You know? Yeah, showtime, bro, you know, showtime.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I'll never forget walking. I was twenty one and went
onto the concord, which was like I guess, like a
month before they went away, and I or maybe I
was twenty and I wore a hat just because I
was so excited.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
I wore.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
You know what, it was a vintage like seventies hat
that I looked that was that was like, you know,
at least three feet right.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Oh my god, you looked like that, like the pimp
from I'm Going to Get You.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yet I was.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I was literally like the biggest.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Green resh.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
First of all, I was on the same concord. Bowie
was on the concord with Emon. I'll never forget walking
by him with my big hat.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
He liked it.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
He liked it, but everyone else hated it. And I
remember it was so embarrassing. By the time I got
to my seat, I didn't realize how small it was,
so I was just hitting everybody with my So I
was that asshole. Just so you know, I was.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Where are you right now? I know you probably already
asked this.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
I'm in New York. I've got a We're doing a
video shoot tomorrow for this tune for the the twenty
aniversary of my first record.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Let's back up, we got what went right into these.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But let's that's the backup.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I am the back I always speaking of.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't back up. And when I say that, I
mean actually literally, Like if we're driving down on a
road trip and the kids want McDonald's and we pass
on and I don't make the exit or whatever, my
wife's like, we'll just turn around. I'm like, no, no, I
always move forward. I cannot go backward forward.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
You know what I say forward, I only go forward.
I run out of gas.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I'm not going to turn around to get off and
go back, like we'll find the next one, even if
it's sixteen miles down the road.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Well not if you're in that long stretch between like.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Well, yeah, that's going to call it.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, No, No, that's seventy five miles stretch.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I don't like going back.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I want to go back. Where did you grow up?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
From? A town in the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York.
It's a prison town called Fallsburg, New York. So it's
like one of those one of those towns you're trying
to get out of, you know, when you're you're like,
I got to get out of here, you.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Know how far from the city.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
It's about an hour and forty five minutes from New
York City.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Is it one prison or is this a place where
there's multiple three prisons?
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Yeah, I know this, but it was all of those
towns like it had beautiful uh you know, the landscape
is beautiful, rolling hills, very very green, but no jobs,
you know, no jobs. So it was just economically really
really really tough, tough place. And what the weird part
(20:47):
of the story though of that town is that it
used to be Have you seen dirty dancing? Yeah, so
it used to be of course that area, that's the
area dirty dancing is based off of. Oh the hotel
industry died up there, who knows what reasons. And then
the state, you know, to provide jobs, built prisons in
(21:08):
the in the town, and that's the main economy, uh,
in the area. So so it was it was a
it was an odd environment. I still go up there
and see, you know, see friends of mine, and I
still love, you know, my my core group of friends.
I like to there's a community people I still really
like up there, and and I love the area itself visually,
(21:31):
but it's just a tough, tough place.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
How big of a place is it? Is it small
like population.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Well, I graduated with eighty people.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Right, And and your father was a prison guard.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, my dad was a guard, My uncle was a guard.
My other uncle did prison psych and uh, yeah, it's
just it's just a that's the economy, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Were you ever set to do that or was it
ever just part of what you needed to do now.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
That never, that never would have crossed my mind, you know,
And so I wasn't I wasn't steered that direction.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
How did your father and how did the all of
the brothers end up there?
Speaker 4 (22:09):
It was just, you know, they didn't leave the area
because there was family in the area. So you don't
want to lose leave your family to go chase money.
It's better off. And the thinking is, you know, we
had a very tribal sort of our family is really tribal,
and that we had a lot of a lot of
family members. We all spend a lot of time together,
family reunions, you know, and it's very familiar, familial. So
(22:32):
it wasn't about going and chasing money in a new town.
It was more about the family's going to stay together regardless. Yeah, sure,
you know, we're everybody has money problems, but it's more
important that the family be together, and.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
That was the that was the driver family, meaning even
like aunts, uncles, cousins, like, oh yeah, right, as I'm saying,
like big extended families are going to stay together.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
Oh yeah yeah. And I've got a family in other
parts of the country, but you know, there's a lot
of family in upstate.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So and what about your siblings? How many siblings?
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I have two? My sister lives in Nashville. My brother
lives in Nashville. That's I mean, that's what we're all
based out of. Oh, great, sister's the oldest. I'm the baby,
if you could tell by my diaper.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
But but yeah, are you and are you all super close?
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, you we're close.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
And your mom? What did your mom do?
Speaker 4 (23:27):
My mom was a nurse, and she she was a
well she was an iran and then she was a
nurse practitioner. Her last job was she was a nurse
practitioner for a drug and alcohol detox. So I guess
there was a good part of all of this, which
was no matter what I did, it wasn't quite as
(23:49):
bad as what my parents were around at all times. Now,
as my dad was watching, I don't know if you've
ever heard Son of Sam. Yeah, Dad watched Son of
Sam every day. And Willie Buyt Skid and Ronnie the
Fay player like guys were like in the in the prison,
you know, that was his day jobs. He'd clock out
and he'd come home and I didn't have a curfew,
(24:11):
you know. Uh. It was just they were pretty loose
in that in that regard because it was just compared
to what they were seeing, nothing was a big deal.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
Right, well he's not he's not the Son of Sam, so.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Right, he's not killing anybody, and you know, and and
we don't think he's doing heroin, so you know, and
that was really the that was pretty much the you know,
the the comparison. And you know, I was only told
all I was told when I was go out, all
I was told I would to go out as a
teenager was don't make me sorry. That was it. You know,
(24:45):
it wasn't it wasn't come home at eleven, It wasn't
you know, don't drugs. It was don't make me sorry.
That was That was it. That was the whole That
was the whole thing. So they're they're pretty loose in
that regard, and they and they love music, and they
both really fundamentally were artistic and artists. You know, they
(25:06):
were at Woodstock together. My dad played in bands for
you know, twenty twenty years and.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Oh really, what instrument did he play?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
He played guitar and he sang, but he could sit
down and play the piano. I mean, he was just
good at stuff. And my granddad played everything. You know.
We just a lot of music in the family. And
my mom would play church and write songs and play
piano and guitar and sing and and and so I
came from this family of people who loved the arts,
(25:35):
you know, on both sides. My great granddad was the
dance instructor at a hotel in the Catskills, and he
would make kids give dance lessons to the guests.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know, he's like Patrick Swayzey.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
He was Patrick Y, right exactly. We all wish, right. So,
so yeah, that was his that was his gig. And
and and I always and I was told that there
was a really funny story as to how that side
of the family ended up in upstate New York from
the city because they were they were Brooklyn Nights, you know,
(26:11):
they were from Brighton, from Brighton beach and uh, and
all my grandmother told me was, I don't know why,
but for whatever reason, when I was thirteen years old,
my father came home in the middle of the night
and said, you have five minutes, everybody to pack your
shit and were leaving. Oh and they fled Brooklyn and
(26:37):
moved to the cat Skills in the middle of the night.
And she said he never talked about it, and we
didn't ask questions, and that's how.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Are you Italian? No Irish?
Speaker 4 (26:46):
That side of the family was Russian Jews and yeah,
and uh.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Wow, I'm wait wait still to this day, no one
knows we got it.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Yeah, I don't know. I knew that her brother was
a was a professional fighter, and uh, his name was
Bobby Burns, and I think he I don't know, he
may have been doing something.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And whatever, whatever it was, someone got mixed up in
some yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah, and that's at that side of the family ended
up in upstate New York. And and but I don't know,
you know, wow.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Don't you love don't you love family? Like the lore
like we have so much of that in ours. Sure, yeah,
we we just found out that another thing, I know.
We don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
That's not even real.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
It's no typical not our dad apparently now there's no
which I think he's gotta be kidding.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
It's going to be dad sense of.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Humor, because yeah, our father has a very like.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
That's kind of his sense of well, but maybe he's
not a lot.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Maybe he's been holding back on that.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I guess.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
I mean, we do all right, well, yes, we are
all very intensely.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
We also are supposedly related to uh big Seleerno.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I think I think that's I think that's that's seemingly really.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Out of the Jena basic crime family.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
You know, that's definitely. I mean I had someone who
just came out of jail one time. This guy he
was a mafia guy and he sort of had to
serve like eight years or something. He came out and
I ran into him at a restaurant. He goes and
I know you. He goes, I know your family, and
I was like what He's like, yeah, I know your family.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
From jail or somewhere Italy jail.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
So yeah, we're like, that's nice. Bye. And we were
at crossroads at the Vegan Place.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah. Man, hey, the dynamics are there, you know it
reminds you. And there's a like, it's likely that there
is some truth to all of it because the world
is small. We're all related a little bit.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
So does your sister. I know your brother plays music.
Does your sister play?
Speaker 4 (29:16):
So I didn't play music.
Speaker 6 (29:18):
She was.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
She was primarily a visual artist, like you know, that
was her passion. That's not what she's like doing doing,
but that was her her skill set, you know. Really
her thing was being a visual artist, which she was
really gifted at. He wasn't a singer for but for
whatever reason, she couldn't help it. Singing thirds perfect thirds
were funny. It was always a perfect third. We're like,
(29:43):
this is.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know naturally that was her thing. You know.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
Yeah, and she uh and her her stories, you know,
this family story is all it's all kind of wild
stuff too because we found out, you know, that her father,
her biological father, was different than mine. So my father adopted.
My father and mother were high school sweethearts. He got
drafted for Vietnam. My mother went off to Boston College
(30:15):
and then met another guy. You know. My dad was
in the army and then had my sister. But but
my father married her when my sister was six months old.
So that's the only father my sister knew. And in
later life, just a couple of years back, you know,
she she really found out more about the biological father,
(30:37):
and he was he had recently passed, and she found
like she found another sibling, a sister, you know, half sister,
and found out the guy was in a biker gang.
You know, he was like, you know, he died like,
you know, seventy years old as a as a biker
you know, and so yeah, it was just like all
(30:59):
this the stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
You know, Wait, when when when your dad went to Vietnam?
Speaker 4 (31:04):
Was your mom? No, my dad was drafted for Vietnam
and ended up fortunately ended up stationed in Germany, and
my brother way my father. So which is why my
father would tell me, hey, Gavi, and you know, you're
a really good singer. I say, thanks, Dad, He goes,
you know, I got good singers all over Germany.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
It sounds like our father did they break, did they break?
Did they break up like when he went to Germany?
Speaker 4 (31:35):
No, they they yeah, they got Yeah, they were separated,
they were separated. But then you know, my assumption is,
you know, right, right, and.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Then you met someone and whatever, and then they got
back together.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
When he got home, she was being a hippie and
you know, he was carrying an M sixteen, you know,
so that you know, yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
That was very of the time.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
My father in law.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
There was a lot of guys in the ms with
her carrying was that were hippies too, right.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's my father in law was in Germany, got drafts,
went to Germany. It was an MP.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Well there you go as well.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, and it only is the best father in law ever.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Oh really, Oh that's cool, good back, that's cool. And
what's funny is both my folks really were hippies. In fact,
my dad told me, he said, I was at Woodstock
with your mother and I had my draft card in
my back pocket for Vietnam, and I was leaving after
the weekend. And so because I grew up only twenty
(32:35):
twenty twenty five minutes from the original Woodstock site from
from Bethel, that's that's where we would, you know, as teenagers,
we go out there and have drum circles and you know,
and fuck all and you know, have fun. You know,
I lost my cherry on that field myself, so you know,
it's just a make sure of you know, the area
(32:55):
at the time, you know. And but my dad told
me this fucking great story about about being at at
woods the Woodstock festival at the time. He said, you know,
he was no business man, he said. So I went
there and I had I had driven my my family's
(33:16):
dump truck to the property. I had carpeted the back
of it because they had a small construction business and
which was always in failure, right, and uh so, like
carpeted the back of this dump truck. So I was like, well,
fucking hang out there, you know, me and my friends
and will party. And but I had brought a bunch
of records to sell it Woodstock. Terrible idea, like I
(33:36):
should have sold watermelon. It's like Charlie Wiener, that was
a good idea. So anyway, he said, Papa Tent and
me and my buddy I think his name is Rubinstein
were standing out there and we got these records, and
he said, I got my back to the to the
to the the tables, and apparently this guy went up
(33:58):
to my companion and he was a biker, and he said, oh,
this looks good. I think I'll take this, and he
was staring at a ball, you know, kind of a
record a biker would never buy. It's like a Joan
Baiez record, right, And he goes, oh, this looks good.
I think I'll take this. And he's being like really brawny,
you know, and he goes, oh, okay, but you know
(34:18):
it's it's six dollars or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
He goes, no, I think I'll just take it. So
he goes over. So the guy who is with my
father walks over to my daddy says, hey, Wayne, Wayne.
And my dad had a great name was John Wayne
to grow of course, and he went by Wayne, amazing name.
And he goes, Wayne, Wayne, that this guy, he really
he's being threatening and he wants the record. He wants
(34:43):
to take this record out. I don't think he wants
to pay for it. He said, well, he's got to
pay like everybody else. He does. But Wayne, Wayne, he's
a biker. He's a biker. Tell him he's got to
pay like everybody fucking else. But Wayne, he's in the gang.
He's in the gang.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I don't give he.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
Said, tell him he's gonna pay like everybody else. My
dad a terribly, terribly hot temper, and so he goes,
but Wayne, she don't even know the name of the gang.
And he goes, what's the name of the gang? And
he goes, Wayne, they're called the motherfuckers.
Speaker 7 (35:25):
My dad goes, what he goes, motherfuckers, Wayne, the motherfuckers,
my dad said, He goes, I turned around, I went,
you're gonna love that record.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Well, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
That's funny, dude, the motherfucker.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
And you could have I mean, nineteen sixty nine, that
language is that much more like well.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're called the mother
fuckers in nineteen sixty nine. You just step away. You know,
I'm gonna start a gang called the motherfuckers.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Jesus, what do you do. You're like, here's the record exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, you're really fantasy love that record, right, Give my regards,
Give my regards to the motherfuckers.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Tell the rest of those motherfuckers anything, Tell the rest
of those motherfuckers any simon that they want to hear
the right.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
That's so funny.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
So you get into music, your brother, like, how when
was the moment that you were like, oh, this is
just what I want to do always and forever. This
is it.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
When did I make the decision to like, I.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Can't see myself wanting to do anything other than me. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Well I loved it, of course, you know, I was
a kid. I was my dad's My dad put it,
he was like, man, you were singing in the cradle
gab before he could talk. You were singing. And my
brother thought I had a singing disease. He actually asked
my uncle Richie if he thought it was possible to
have a disease of singing, because I wouldn't shut the
fuck up. All right, So, so we we had a
(37:22):
for Christmas one year, we had a our gift as
a family was we'd all go to a concert. And
that concert was a Billie Joel concert. And I was fifteen,
and uh, and of course I was already, you know,
playing music, and I already took music seriously, and I
was enjoying myself. But I thought playing music was a
selfish way to make a living. And part of that
is probably because we grew up in the church so heavily,
(37:44):
I mean really really deep in the church, almost almost
like a coltish level. Like we went to church at
the American Legion every Sunday, right, So, so it was
it was like heavy, you know, it was post hippie chapter.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
H church, right, and the church was so like Christian, like.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Yeah yeah, like n again. And by the way, I'm
happy I did all that stuff because it was you know,
it's foundation pretty interesting, you know, it's where you're coming from.
So and I still have I still have a degree
of faith, and I and I still have the same
struggles with faith and just like everybody else and and
(38:29):
and it's all a jumping off point and so anyway,
but I did think playing music for a living may
have been a selfish path, right, and it probably had
a lot to do with the constant, uh, the church
teachings you know of like you know, service and Jesus
and you know, helping people and things like that. So
(38:51):
I thought maybe playing music wasn't going to help enough people, right.
So you know what I want to make the blind see,
I want to be an ophthalmologist. I want to I
want to be as I want to be an eye doctor.
Blah blah blah blah blah. A child, a child's desire
to you know, fulfill this wish list, right. But when
I saw Billy Joel play a show, and I saw
(39:14):
the reaction of people around me who I'd never met before,
and I saw what was happening to them. You know,
it was so emotional watching them receive joy in a
group setting. That's the first time it dawned on me
that music really helps people in a very particular way.
It's not going to heal people. But I thought, wow,
(39:36):
this is actually, this is a this is a service.
And he he obviously loves doing it. I love doing it.
This is what I can I can do this like this.
Actually this would be a good life choice.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Right.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Fifteen. Yeah, And we got in the car, the family
got in the car, and as soon as we got
in the car, I said, I know what I want
to do now, I know what I want to do
for a living. And I said, my dad says, what
do you want to do. I said, I'm going to
do that. I'm going to do what he does. I
want to do it just like that. And he said
it looks like fun, doesn't it. I said yes, And
he said, and that's what she'll do, right. And it
(40:15):
was that simple. It was very uh, there was no
it wasn't combative.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Very rare for you know, I mean, I guess because
he's musical. Your father understands the connection. A lot of times,
when when one doesn't understand the connection to an art,
you know, a parent, it can be hard to understand
and know, and knowing how competitive the field is, it
(40:40):
could be a hard thing to say.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Had you written any songs at that point at fifteen?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, I've written a couple of really shitty songs
for sure, a couple of singers, you know. So, but uh,
and I only did that. I mean, I was writing
songs when I was like a little kid, you know,
like just me of all the time, his music ideas constantly.
And then I hung that up and I started learning
cover songs. Then my brother who's four grades above me,
(41:09):
three and a half years older, who was also a musician,
he goes, I want to write some songs, and I said, well,
the great one's already written, you know. He goes, yeah,
but if you don't write the songs, why should anybody
remember you? And I said, all right, well, good point.
And you know immediately you know, of course that day
it's a challenge from your older brother. You have to
do it right. And so he was also the instrumental
(41:35):
in that too, because he challenged me a lot. And
he was also kind of a natural born authority hater
and you know, just just anti structure, you know, in life,
you know.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Which I like, how many years older is he.
Speaker 4 (41:50):
Three and a half years?
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Three and a half?
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Yeah, so four grades?
Speaker 3 (41:54):
And did you play together?
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Yeah, we played music together. In fact, he got me
my first regular type of gig at a bar, which
was you know, the drinking age is twenty one, so
when you're sixteen you start drinking bars, right, so and
or fifteen and so, you know, it was so you know,
(42:17):
and and so my brother was was out at the bars,
you know, we're we're in high school, and he was
going to a bar in the next town over and
there was a guy doing a Tuesday night open mic
sort of thing, jam kind of thing, and he got
to know the bartender pretty good, because that's what you
do when you're in high school. You get to know
(42:38):
the bartender pretty good. And he said, Hey, my brother
plays music and he's good. Can we think you'd be
able to get him into the bar and play some music,
you know, And he was like, yeah, hell yeah, why
not have fuck it? And so so he could. My
brother came home, he goes, they got his permission to
go in, let's go and play some songs and whatever.
(42:59):
So we started doing that. The best part about it
was it was right across the street from the police station.
And you know, and uh and and you know, I guess,
I guess doing breaking the laws just fun when you're young,
just in general. And uh, you know, it's kind of
like what you do, and you know, it's just fun.
(43:20):
Rebellion is good, right, you know, it's the whole thing
about being young.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
So how long did you do that?
Speaker 4 (43:26):
I would do it every week and I quit sports
and uh and uh, cause it was kind of like
what do I want to do? Do I want to
do I want to hang out after school with people
with kids, or like do I want to like work
on this skill set and meet women? You know? And
(43:47):
uh and uh, you're in high school, so it's a
very big deal. You're like at fifteen, you're hanging out
with adults. It was just better for me. Uh, you know,
I was already sleeping in school anyway, so so you know,
it was just you know, I can never sleep at night,
so it was better off if I was out working
at night, playing bars, you know, during the weekdays. Even
(44:09):
though I was in high school.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Now, do you remember a moment when you wrote your
first song that you were like, I think I'm good
at this. I think I'm actually I think I'm actually
really good at this.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
Well, when you're writing songs and you're fifteen, you think
you're good at everything anyway, and you suck and and
so if god, if I was to go back and
dig up some of the material, you would have such
a laugh right now.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
But you had the confidence then, is what you're saying,
Like you felt confident?
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Oh god, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, kidding. You're you know,
you're you're young. You're young, and you're doing something that
is unusual in the small environment that you're in, the
small pond that you're in. So therefore it's already you're
already getting five points out of ten just for being different, right, So,
(45:14):
and so you know, you're only like one or two
points away from walking on water as far as you're concerned,
because it's because you really think what you're doing is
really good, even if you suck at it, like you know, So,
so if I go back and listen to myself right
now at fifteen, I would I'm telling you, I guarantee
you I would not be able to get through fifteen
seconds of it. So but you know, you have neighbors
(45:39):
and friends and family and they're being supportive and they
want to help you, and they want they want you
to get out of there too, right, So they're championing you,
and they're believers, and they're and they're and they're they're
trying to help you. You know, they're trying to be
a springboard for you, and they were they were a
tremendous health And then the part of that, and I
(46:00):
think what they're giving you is something that's better than money,
which is confidence, right, m yeah, because because confidence is
totally invaluable. You can't put a number on on confidence.
It is absolutely the against all odds mathematics is confidence, right.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
I really, I really I feel that. So I really
understand that because it took even for me with music,
even a couple people who really allowed gave me even
more confidence to feel like I could do it, you
know absolutely, meaning like just not doubt myself, you know, yes,
(46:39):
to have a stronger belief in the art, you know,
and my writing and everything.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Oh yeah, when did it happen?
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Like, yeah, what was your that was going to be
about that.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
I know, like great when we were like holy shit,
like making money. I was making money from a pretty
early age, you know, just playing bars of making big money.
And then I and then you know, I would I
would often play songs I was working on to my family,
right because I respected taste, and I played played my
(47:12):
music for friends of mine that I was working on.
If they're like, you know, sings, you sing it good,
you know, then you're like a song sucks, right, But
but I would always play it for them. And one
day I wrote this song and I was playing it
for my brother, and he would always be like, hey,
(47:32):
that's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good.
One day, I was playing the song at the an apartment.
We were living together in an apartment in Hell's Kitchen
in New York on forty ninth and h and ninth.
It was the end of the nineties, and uh, we
were living together, and I played him the chorus. I
(47:54):
finished the song. I played the last chorus and I
never saw him react before like this, and he goes,
that's your fucking hit. You finally got one, You finally
got a fucking hit song. You fucking did it and
I said, really, He goes, yes, that's a hit song,
and it was, and it became my first hit single.
(48:16):
You know, it was I Don't Want to Be And.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
That was that because that was that when you and that,
that was enormous. I mean that came out and it
must have just completely.
Speaker 4 (48:27):
Yeah, it changed my life.
Speaker 3 (48:28):
It changed your life? Now, were you signed at the time?
Speaker 4 (48:31):
Not when I played him that song. I mean, prior
to that, I was, you know, I've been doing the
grind since I was a teenager. So I had a
I'm trying not to tell the longest version of the story,
but I had initially been given a record record deal
offer from RCA in nineteen ninety seven, and I was
(48:56):
like twenty at the time because I played one gig
in New York City. They had heard a demo I
had sent in through a manager that had met an
upstate New York and they were great people, and the Pratts,
and they had they had sent this uh recording and
the head of an r RCA had heard it and
she goes, I want to meet the guy. You know,
I think there's some good stuff here. So I did
(49:18):
a showcase. It made me an offer and it wasn't
really a good offer. And uh and and and they're
they're to me, Oh, you're the next Paul Simon, You're this,
you're that. And I said, that's great. But it didn't
the contract didn't read that way, so I said, and
I'm twenty. I said, uh, it doesn't read that way.
So that it tells me I'm not ready. It's a
more reflection on me than you. And uh, and I'm
(49:41):
happy to, you know, come back at another time. And
at the time, I was working like at a lumber yard,
you know, in upstate New York. And uh and uh,
you know, no harm, no foul. And I had a
little bit of a relationship with these these people. They
were very nice, but I didn't think it was I
wasn't upset with them. I saw it as I just
still suck, you know, and I need to get better.
(50:04):
I need to write better songs. But I hadn't written
that song by then, And there were a lot of
songs I hadn't written by then. But maybe one or
two of those songs I had written by then. But
then I did a publishing deal with Warner, so I
was writing for Warner, and I was twenty two and
(50:25):
then yeah, I was twenty two or twenty three with
the guy who brought me a named Randy Sabastin, who
I liked a lot. And then Nile Rodgers was coming
out to the gigs, who was like a big producer,
writer guy, and then he and I started. He wanted
to produce me, right, so we made a record together,
(50:47):
like a half a record, But I didn't like the
terms of the deal that were being offered at that time,
so I was like, I don't want to do the deal.
And then years went by, and then I signed a deal.
Once I developed a following in New York playing live,
then the deal started just coming from other other record
(51:10):
companies and then they and then the contract started reading
a lot better, right.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
And Chariot twenty is the album that had I don't
want to be on it, right, I mean that yeah,
And that was your big.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
Yeah, that opened a lot of doors for me. Well,
I got a phone call from a guy. His name
was Joe Devola, and I was walking around the East
Village at the time. At that point point, I was
living in kind of at the edge Alphabet City and
like two thousand and like three, and I got a
phone two thousand, Yeah, two two thousand and three, I
(51:43):
got a phone call from this guy and he goes, hey,
man's Joe Devola. You know I owned these I won
these TV shows. I own them, I create them. I
created a lot of shows for MTV. I created the
first non music show at MTV called Remote Control. He
took me down his whole thing, you know, and I
loved it. I love this whole He had this whole
(52:04):
great persona and delivery, and he seemed so sincerea. And
and he said, I wanna I want to put a
song of yours on this show. And I said, uh,
what kind of show? He said, it's a TV show.
I said, Nah, don't do TV. I don't do TV.
I'm I'm cool like that. I'm too cool for fucking TV.
(52:27):
I don't do TV. I don't do movies. I want
to be famous without anyone never knowing who I am.
So he was like, what are you talking about. I
was like, no, no, I don't do TV. I don't
do ads, I don't do movies. I don't want anyone
to know.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
What I look like, you know.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
And he was like, all right, let me put it
to you like this. You have to help me help you.
If you want your music to be heard, I have
a platform to do it. You gotta let me do it.
I said, absolutely not TV's lame.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
No, that was the TV.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
I had issues with it. I have no idea why
I was What was the show though? It was a
show called One Tree Hill and so he goes.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
And so so.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
I think it was all based on going up in
this hippie area. Were being related with anything corporate.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
It was also that was very of the time too.
You know, it was no but everybody was too cool
to do anything other than what they did and it
wasn't the right thing. And if you did that, then
you're sellout. I mean that was like, and you're.
Speaker 4 (53:38):
In the East Village, man, you know, like you know, yeah,
by you know, Ryan Adams is walking by there with
a couple.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
Yeah, by the way, we were there too. We were
in Chelsea. Chris and I were living in Chelsea at
the time, in like a four story walk up right.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
I said, I don't want to be affiliated with TV.
TV has no cred, you know, I'm cred. And he goes,
let me ask you a question, Gavin, how much money
do you have in the bank right now? And I
go you man, and which we started laughing. You know,
(54:15):
he goes, no, seriously, how much? I said, not a lot, Joe,
not a lot. He goes, would you like a lot more? Uh?
Huh sounds pretty good. So he goes, I'm not going
to touch your music. All I'm going to do is
play your music. You don't even have to be in
the ads. No one's going to see you, none of it.
(54:36):
I was like, okay, cool. So then the phone rang
again and it was another creator and they go, hey,
we want to use another one of your songs, but
a different song for another show. And by that point,
Joe had already convinced me what to do? You know,
I was like, use it, use it for that too,
you know, like another So, you know, you change your
mind and there's reality checks there you know where you're going.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Yeah, you started to like open up and I need
to make a look. You got to grow up and
fit you out?
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Yeah? What am I? What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (55:08):
You know? Right?
Speaker 3 (55:09):
You decided to go in the studio and reimagine your
first the first big album, yeah cheeriot.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (55:16):
And what and what what?
Speaker 3 (55:18):
What was the impetus for this?
Speaker 4 (55:20):
Well? It was twenty years it was a great excuse
to revisit this old material that initially had like changed
my life, right, my lifestyle and like my personal world,
and and I had I there's improvements that have happened
for me personally as as an artist. So I've personally
(55:42):
improved at my job. And I wanted to, you know,
perform these songs better than I had on my first record.
It's not that I felt like I didn't do do
the first record service. I was very proud of the
first record. But after living with this songs and performing
these songs and other twenty years thousand times, you know exactly,
(56:08):
I just feel like the performances are better, and I
wanted to document it. You know, a record is a
you know is a doctor.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
So are you re recording? You re recorded the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (56:17):
Yeah, re recorded the whole thing. And I had gone
into the studio with the guy I had worked with
on my last record, and I really love the sonics
and the performances of the last record, which is called
Face the River, and I love the way it sounded.
It sounded just sounded real, sounded authentic, and there's no
real fixing on the record. It's just sort of you know,
(56:37):
it's not it's not auto tuned, and it's not copy pasted,
and it's just very it breathes, and uh, it's very
organic and so and and and it's a producer I
really really respect for this type of project. Name is
Dave Cobb. Of course, I'm sure you heard.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
I loved it. I'm such a big fan of his. Yeah,
she's amazing.
Speaker 4 (57:00):
He is he is amazing, and and and they've they've
likes to make music live, you know, And which is
which is my real my wheelhouse.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
Which is every time I hear like a Nashville artist
or someone and I hear it and I'm like, god,
I love this song. Yeah, I'll go it's like like
maybe nine out of ten times it's cop it's.
Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, it's yeah. He gets great, you know, great sounds
and great performances out of people, and and and the
recordings just sound authentic. They sound honest, and they.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
The arrangements are the same or do you change.
Speaker 4 (57:35):
It up there? They're they're they're not the same. They're
simplified really and uh, they ripped down more. Yeah, it's
really just four or five guys playing at the same time.
And that's that's the record. Yeah, wait to hear it.
I hope you like it. I hope you like and
it and it.
Speaker 6 (57:51):
It really reminds me of what what those performances, how
they how they sort of come to be in a
live sitting in a bar room or or at somebody's
house when you're hanging.
Speaker 4 (58:04):
Out and you happen to be hanging out some great
musicians and and you go, yoh man, you want to
work something up, and you know, there's some people coming over.
Let's work up a couple of songs for these these guys,
and we'll just hang out and play some music. Yeah,
fuck yeah, let's do it. And and that was really
the process for cutting the record. And it reminded me
of just playing at a bar.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Was there any song that like that, like actually surprised
you when you got back into it, when you that
you kind of went, wow, you know, I actually like
this song even better.
Speaker 4 (58:38):
I mean, honestly, I like, maybe it's just because I'm
older and my taste has become more specific. This is
the type of record that I this these sort of
sonics are the types of records I like to listen to,
you know, at the house. You know, there's a kind
of records.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
I like.
Speaker 4 (58:55):
I like to hear there more, just more. Sic you
think it's basic, It's just simple. I can hear. I
know exactly what the guitar player is doing. I know
exactly what the bass player is doing. I'm not over.
I'm not not inundated with information and notes and and
counter melodies and bills and whistles. I'm not really a
(59:19):
bills and whistles guy.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
Well, I'm so excited to hear. When is it coming out?
Speaker 4 (59:24):
September seven?
Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah, September twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (59:27):
I didn't initially choose this date, but when they told
me the date, O, it's happens to be my dad's
what would have been my dad's birthday. No, oh, amazing.
Speaker 3 (59:37):
It's a leir Dad with a libra. It's a libra album.
Speaker 4 (59:41):
I like it. Oh is that what that means? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (59:44):
You know what I mean. I'm just making this up.
I'm pulling this right out of my heinee. It's a balancing.
It's a it's a balance. It's the scales. It's like
Chariot twenty or it's like you're like balance to you're
balancing it.
Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Nope, I like it. It's just a release, like balance
just a release, just a release, Nope, just Gavin.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
You're the best. This was so much fun. I hope
to actually like you.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
See you laying in l A.
Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Yeah, look us up, bucket, we'll do dinner.
Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Yeah, I'd love.
Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
To Manvin later.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Have the best later brother, See you
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Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
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