October 29, 2025 • 53 mins
Elyse Myers may be the internet’s favorite awkward storyteller, but behind the 100-taco viral legend is a woman who has fought anxiety, ADHD, shame, and the fear of never being “enough.”
In this raw and relatable conversation, Elyse reveals how a health diagnosis rocked her world and why she finally stopped hiding the hardest parts of her story. Find Elyse's new book "That's A Great Question, I'd Love to Tell You" at bookshop.org.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling Railvalry, No, no, sibling, Rail, don't do that
with your mouth revely, that's good. I have been and
(00:42):
I've said this before, but like I guess officially diagnosed
with ADD or ADHD or whatever the fuck it is,
whatever whichever letter you want to put in there. I
don't know. I had a brain scan by this guy,
doctor Amon. He was on our podcast. We were on
his podcast. Was incredible to sort of look at your
brain and really in apped and see how it's functioning,
see what kind of physical trauma has happened to it
(01:04):
through concussions or even head or even head bangs or whatever,
and then you know, getting into sort of the ADHD
and you can see it anyway. Point is they gave
me these patches and essentially it's amphetamine. And I tried one,
you know, I've been doing one. I'm like, I think
I feel okay, you know, I think I I think
(01:25):
I feel like more awake, I guess, but it's not
like all of a sudden I'm sitting down on my
computer and writing scripts and conquering the world. And then
I tried two of them. They gave me a low dose,
like a four and a half milligram. Then I tried
another one. So I was nine and I did that
a couple of days ago, and it was like it
was nutty. It was nutty because I'm not used to
(01:47):
that shit. I'm not a speed guy, you know, like
that an fhetamine and think like hey, And I couldn't
decide whether I was gonna, you know, save the world
or just sort of ball up and get into my
bed and cry. I chose to save the world, but
I want to another. I went. I doubled it up today.
(02:10):
I doubled it up today just for this and let's
see what happens. Let's see what happens. I can't even
pronounce the name of it of what's on what kind
of weird patch I have on? But uh yeah, I'm
on fire, baby, I'm on fire. So let's bring in
(02:30):
to talk about my ADHD patches. Atlise Myers going in,
How are you good? Are you? I'm good? I was
just doing, you know, I do a little intro before
the show and I was just talking about how I
did this brain scan with this guy doctor Amen, and
(02:53):
it was really incredible, and it was like a three
day thing. They put an IV in you, which he
radioactive material, so great, apparently you know, I'm viren Man.
And then they put you in the scan. Well actually
they put the IV in and then they give you
They take you through a on a computer screen. You
(03:14):
have to do all of these sort of quizzes and
tests and it's sort of activating and stimulating your brain.
And then they put you in the in the in
the in the scan and then the next day you
come back and you just relax. They put the radioactive
material into your IV and then you kind of just relax.
So there's a real mapping of how your brain is
(03:35):
functioning given activity and given downtime. Wow, it's pretty an
intensive process. All this to say that, you know, I've
known it. But he's like, oh, you have ADD or
ADHD or whatever one it is, right.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
How does it feel to hear someone say that versus
just having a suspicion.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It didn't matter to me sure personally, you know, because
it wasn't There's so much to talk about because I've
I'm on twenty grams of twenty milligrams of lexapro. Like,
I've been dealing with anxiety since I was in my
mid twenties when I had my first sort of gnarly
panic attack, So it all sort of understandably probably goes
hand in hand, But it was never something that I
(04:14):
needed to diagnosis for to make me feel better necessarily,
like accommodation or anything. Yeah, it was more of just
oh yeah, I mean that makes sense. Yeah, you know,
because it's always felt like I can grind and I
can get after it. But yeah, there's this part of
me that knows I have never reached my full potential
because I felt like I was incapacitated somehow or I
(04:37):
couldn't get through something.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, do you feel like sometimes it's also helped you though,
to grind, like that hyperfixation and that need for stimulation
and all that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeh See, it's funny because I don't think I have
that part. I got all the I got all the
shit parts I didn't get there. Really, I'm just gonna
I'm just gonna sort of just lock in. There are
moments when I can, but it's not that like hyper
focus that I will see with people who have ADHD.
Sure just lock in anyway. They put me on these
(05:10):
patches and it's I forget what the fuck it's called,
but it's like an ADHD type of a patch. It's
only four and a half milligrams.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Of like a stimulant.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's a stimulant. Yeah, it's like it's fetter meane, it's
it's I think it's a derivative of all adderall. You know,
it's like debt from morphine or some some fiend. And uh,
you know I would feel good, but I think I
feel awake or you know, nothing. That was overpowering and
(05:42):
then life changing. I decided to double up.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And and is that where we're at today?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I don't know. I mean I tried it today too,
but two days ago I tried it and it was
definitely a trip. You know. It was really a little anxiety,
a little like holy shit, you know what I mean,
Like can I conquer the world or do I need
to like crawl up into a ball here? You know.
It was this oscillating sort of feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
That's it's so it's I have been medicated for my
ADHD since I was sixteen, and it's so it's like
now it's such a part of my life that I
I can't believe I ever went without being medicated. It's
like it's it's an on and off switch, and it's
like just makes my baseline. So it's so it's cool
to find things that work. And so I'm curious to
(06:25):
know if the four milligrams is helpful for you or
if it's eight or nothing.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, I don't know. I have to figure that one out.
I have to figure out if an amphetamine is something
that I can vibe with or not. Now I also
think I need to create a task to almost as
a as a trial period. Say, I'm not just going
to put a patch on it and go through my day, right,
I'm going to take this medication and sit down and
(06:50):
write a script or I am going to clean the gate.
Yesize it exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I love that. I like that. That's how your brain works.
It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah. I mean all of this to say, this is
very timely, and I'm happier here because you you know,
this is what you do, this is what you are,
this is why you are who you are, And so
I'm curious to sort of even know, starting at the
beginning of this, how did you discover that you sort
of felt this way? I read that you had your
(07:20):
first panic attack at seven years old, and yeah, you know,
so how did you come into this ADHD? Just in general?
You know, I mean my first panic attack was at
twenty five. You know, at seven, do you even know
what's happening to you? Thought? No.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
The only way I knew what was happening to me
was because I have much older brothers. So there are seven,
eight and ten years older than me, and all of
us have some flavor of anxiety or you know, neuro
not like neurodivergence in some way. And so what I
was I was having what I kept saying, like I
think I'm having a heart attack or a stroke or something,
(07:59):
is what I had said. And I couldn't catch my breath,
and I wanted to cry, but I couldn't cry. I
felt like I was like being suffocated by needing to cry.
And my brother goes, just try coughing. Just all you
need to do, is like, because that was what he
helped him get a panic attack out, and it like
kind of jolts your heart to start pumping normally. So
(08:19):
I started coughing and it worked, and he goes, Yep,
you're having a panic attack. And I was like, what
is that, you know, and he walked me through it,
and yeah, I think I just grew up in a
household where it was very I mean we all had
to go to therapy because of my parents' divorce very early.
So medical clinical help was around, and that terminology was
(08:41):
around very early, earlier than I maybe even like should
have been, just because I was kind of the outlier
of like the ages of what was happening. So I
was lumped into conversations that were just like a little older.
But then it wasn't until so that was like the
anxiety and the depression kind of part, and we weren't
sure was it chemical? Is it like situational with the
(09:02):
home situation. But then when I was sixteen, it was
really fascinating. I was becoming like very obsessive over trying
to like study, and I was presenting essentially as like
someone with like ADHD, like very high high hyperactive like ADHD.
And I was failing all my classes. And I had
(09:25):
gotten treatment for like body image eating stuff at like
fifteen ish, and I was I was going through the
outpatient process of the therapy. One of the psychologists was like,
have you ever been assessed for ADHD? And I was like,
uh no, And he's like, it's so funny. Because not funny,
but it's so interesting because I see so much overlap
(09:47):
in young girls that struggle with obsessive like food stuff
and body stuff with neurodivergence, and there's actually so much
more overlap than people understand. And he's like, a lot
of this I think would really resolve for you if
you just got on a very small, small dose of
something that could just connect the wires in your brain
that aren't firing together that should be. And I got assessed,
(10:09):
I went on meds and it was like, for the
very first time in my life, I was not being
dragged behind my own mind. Like I was in the
car in the driver's seat, and I controlled how fast
we were going or slow, the windows were up or down,
if the radio was on, who was in my car,
And it was like, I think that this is how
(10:31):
people probably just feel all the time. And it was
pretty powerful for me. And then I never really went back.
It was just it was like I felt like, Okay,
now my life is starting, and it was really cool.
I think that for me that diagnosis was helpful because
it allowed me to make changes in my life that
shifted and built my life in a way that served me,
(10:54):
rather than me trying to fit my life in a
way that made sense to other people. So that's why
that was helpful to me.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
What did it feel like to you before those meds
reconnected those wires? You know? Yeah, what was that feeling?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It was like you know, when you overcaffeinate yourself and
you're sitting there and you're like cold, sweating and you're
talking to someone, you keep cutting yourself off. It would
feel like everything was bottlenecking in me, like every thought
and feeling, and I think I tried to get out.
It would make me so anxious. I would just be
(11:31):
like silent because I was trying to prioritize which thoughts
were important to share and which weren't. And I had
no filter. And I still don't like a lot of
these things are just me as well, so I don't
want to take those away. But it allowed me to
decide and slow my brain down a little bit and
decide which thoughts I was going to share and which
(11:53):
strings I was going to pull out in conversation. It
wasn't like I was just frantically trying to like hold
on to every single rope around me, you know, and
hang on.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Were you aware that you were feeling these things and
it was not necessarily normal or was it normal for you?
Or did you understand that something's off here? I have
to figure this out.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I for sure felt like something was off, not because
I thought it was anything fixable. I just thought I
was really stupid. Like I thought I was a bad student.
I thought I was selfish. I mean when that I
couldn't I couldn't focus on someone, I'm like, am I
just self absorbed? That? Like I can't pay attention to
you and hear what you're saying long enough for me
to get my own thoughts out of the way. Like
(12:40):
I felt lazy because I couldn't focus on anything long enough.
So I'm like, what if I just don't love it,
I can't do it, which is just yeah, it's like
and there's a lot of shame attached to that as well.
And I wanted to be good and I wanted to
be liked, and I wanted to be successful, and I
wanted people to be proud of me, and it felt
(13:01):
like I just wasn't going to be a person that
could do things and achieve things, and I didn't fit
the way I wanted to. And though it wasn't a
one to one output of like how hard I was
working versus the results of what I was getting, and
it just felt like I was kind of swimming upstream
the whole time. But never once was I like something
can be fixed in this. I just internalized that as
(13:24):
this is I'm just bad all around. Like that's essentially
the main takeaway was I'm.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Just bad, but just this is who I am.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, I'm just I'm bad. I'm bad, student, bad, listener, everything.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Did you have moments of clarity, those sort of you
know eddies in the in the in the stream where
all of a sudden you're like, holy shit, I'm in,
I'm in, I'm in, I'm focusing on I fucking on
it and then boom it goes away like unmedicated unmedicated.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, definitely, So that's where that's where Like for me,
so I'm also autistic, and there's a lot of overlap
in those, which is cool because sometimes my my special
interests in my and like hyperfixations of of me and
my autism would supersede my inability to focus, so I
(14:15):
would get into these moments like so great example is
I learned viola. I'm classically trained violist, and I started
when I was really young, and I would lock myself
in my room and play for ten hours, like I
would for I wouldn't drink water, I wouldn't eat. I
like that obsessive hyperfixation when when people that are autistic
(14:39):
have special interests like that is very a common pattern.
And so I did have those bursts of like, okay,
it's not, it's not it's not all the time me.
But it almost made it harder because then when I
couldn't force myself to do that in other areas, I
didn't understand why, so that when it was like oh so,
(15:01):
and also to other people, they didn't understand why, like
why can you sit and play buela for ten hours
but all you need to do is sit and do
your mouth. I work for thirty minutes and you just
keep getting up and you have to pee and you
have you go water, and you're like maybe in a snack,
and it's like I just couldn't lock in. So it
almost made it harder that I experienced those little bits
of goodness because then it's like, well it is really
(15:23):
my fault.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Then, yeah, how much of this do you think is
sort of a circumstantial like you talked about before, and
how much does genetics play into this?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean that's probably a question for a doctor.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I was wanting to say, is there science on that?
You know? Yeah, I mean I know my mother was
dealing with anxiety. You know. My son Wilder is now eighteen.
When he was thirteen years old, he went through about
where he just felt He kept saying to me, Dad,
I don't feel real, which is like disassociation, you know,
which I could completely relate to, because when I was
(16:07):
going through my shit, and you know, every now and again,
it's like, uh, I'm not I don't think I'm on
this earth right now, like what the fun?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And it's and you can't really explain that to someone
that's never experienced it, because you're not like having an
outer body experience. It's like you're you're it almost is
like this hopelessness. When I experience that, you feel like
you're like this is the routine of every single day,
and I don't feel like a real human being. I'm
like I've checked out and I'm just it's happening to
me and through me, but I'm not here like that
(16:35):
feeling is so crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Genetically, I mean definitely, there's science that links genetics with
with mental health and neurodivergence, which is why when that's
which is why I got diagnosed as autistic, or why
I pursued a diagnosis even though I knew I was
because when my sons go to be assessed one day,
if they do, it's so much easier to get in,
(16:57):
and the wait list is so like you long? Really, yes,
I had to personally wait eight months, and I'm in Nebraska,
where there's no waiting list for like anything, and I
still had to wait eight months, and then the process
is like seven to eight months long because you have
to keep going back. It is such an intense process.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Why why is the waiting list so long? Is this
bureaucracy shit?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I think, well, for adults, it's because why does it matter?
Why do you need to know? There's also no medication
to like heal it or fix it? There's like some
there's some things you can take, but there's no like
here you're autistic, here's mids you know. But I think
that also like the assessment process is so long and arduous,
(17:44):
and it takes a very specifically trained a professional, and
there's not a lot of them, because I think that
it's very recent that people have realized how prevalent neurodivergence is.
I think it's very easy to diagnose a ten year
old boy because they present very differferently than than women do.
And so I think we're just now starting to get
(18:05):
into a different season of the neurodivergent world where we're
seeing it earlier and we're able to like get more
people trained to accommodate. I think it's really important that
young people have access to that because my life would
have been drastically different if I would have just given
been given a little bit different of a setup, like
(18:28):
anything I like being able to self teach, like being
able to have a little control over my schedule, any
any of it. I just wouldn't have felt like I
was bad. That would have changed my self esteem my
whole life.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Sure, and obviously information is so powerful as far as
the way that you think and feel about yourself and
who you are. If there is a diagnosis where it's
like oh shit, okay, this is who I am Yeah,
I'm OK. Now this is not I'm not just sort
of floating in the ether right now, totally. I can
(19:01):
get my feet on the ground with this.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, how long have you been interested in pursuing this?
Like why did you go to that brain scan?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I'm an actor, but like if I was not, I
would love to be in the world of psychology. I
just love the human condition. It's so interesting to me
how we are all made up of the same stuff,
but we're so drastically you know, diverse, and how we
feel and how we think, and how we act and
how we respond to certain things, our sensitivities, you know,
(19:32):
all of that. And I think that honestly stems from
my first bout with anxiety, which was in my mid twenties. Yeah,
and it came from wanting to be better and just
feel like myself again. And then once I had a
grip on that, then it just became more interested and
fascinated in sort of the world of it in the
(19:55):
brain and why this is happening. But to get over
my first bout, I just wrote a ton in my
journal and I was heavy meditating, and I go up
to my rock, you know, every day in sort of
wilderness and I would just get quiet and write and
then I got through it, but there was this residual
feeling of unease and that's when I went on Selexa,
(20:16):
and that's when it sort of took everything away.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Do you find that you being creative helps you when
you're in those seasons or do you feel like your
creativity is gone when you're in that season?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
No, it helps when I'm pen to paper. For me
is always great. My expression personal like in person expression,
vulnerability has always been tough for me. In person, I've
always been able to express myself through the written word.
It's much easier for me. I like to write. It
feels good to write.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, I have to take breaks from therapy because I
find like I'm over therapized sometimes because it makes me
very intellectual about what I'm doing. But like, understanding your
feelings is not the same thing as processing and feeling
them Like that is actually a complete like run away
(21:08):
from it because you're like, well, if I can figure
it out, then I'm good, and it's like no. Sometimes
literally it is trapped in your body and you need
to get it out, like you have got to get
it out. It is poison and so learning how to
feel things. I'm in that process right now because I
can tell you every single thing of why I do it,
but like I will go numb before I actually feel
(21:32):
it and a stonewall. I'm not a yeller, I'm not.
I will just like do meet like fool me once
you're dead to me, Like that's really where how I operate.
And so I'm learning how to not do that. But
it's really hard because it can feel like you have
to go through this purging process of like overfeeling things
(21:54):
to the point where you're like, Okay, one day this
is going to stabilize. But right now everything is making
me feel too much and it's overwhelming, and I just
for stimulated.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Completely understand that because that over therapy thing. I haven't
been in therapy in a little bit because of that too.
It's like, let me just take a break from all
of this. Yeah, you know. And sometimes when I get
into a state of anxiety, which even can happen when
you're on meds, you know, it's not hard to deal with.
And I'm like a seasoned veteran, so if some check up,
I'm like, Okay, I know what it is. I got it.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I can like feel it in the air.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yes, I can feel it. And instead of being like, oh,
well it's this is this man, your brain starts to
tick off all of the past therapies and books you've
read and articles, and finally, like Oliver, shut up. Just exist,
just exist, Just exist and just roll with it. You're good.
Just and exist because they can you can ruminate on
(22:50):
all of the potential lessons and and all the remedies
that you have in your brain to have helped yourself
feel better instead of just saying just chill for a second.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I think. I think like it's it's it's really
transformed my brain chemistry literally to be married to somebody
who like actually loves me and when he says it,
he means it, and he loves all of it, like
all of the seasons that we can feel coming from
a mile away, like for me to be in that season,
(23:22):
I think that like my at least my experience, I
want to ruminate and fix it because I feel like
a problem to people, and I feel like I'm a
burden and I feel like people are watching me go
through this and it's like fine for a little bit,
but if it goes longer, then a little bit. Then
it's like, okay, can you just get back? Like where
where do the other at least go? Like I want
her back now, you know. It's like we're done, We're good,
(23:43):
And so I work really hard at like Okay, why
am I this way? And let me fix it? Let
me go to therapy, let me just change my diet again,
and like start working out. And I think like being partnered,
like life partnered with someone like where I'm having a
down day and I'm crying and I'm apologizing because I'm
like I don't know why, I don't know what's going on.
(24:04):
He'll just look at me and be like, you don't
need to know. You don't need to explain it to
me or to yourself. You don't need to explain it
to our boys. Like if you just don't feel good
and you feel like it would be better if you
just laid in bed for a little bit and we
close the blinds and you watched a stupid show that
turned your brain off, Like you don't need to explain why, right,
And just the permission to not have to know almost
(24:28):
immediately like relieves the pressure and the things have more
space to be Like it's like the tank was immediately
just like grown and that it just dissolves a little bit,
you know, it's like thinner and lighter, and.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Well, it's interesting. But you know, in your journey, in
my journey, and I don't know whether you talk about
this in your book as well, but you know, the
spouse or the person on the other side of it
is so important to everything that you are. Yeah, and
my wife Erin is amazing that way. When it first
happening though in our twenties, when we were just dating,
(25:03):
scary it was for her. She was extremely compassionate, but
at the same time, like what's wrong, Like your life
is good, Like you're a successful you're acting as successful.
You come from a good family, Like we're in love,
Like what's going on? I don't fucking know. I don't know.
I'm just crazy, But at least they feel crazy. And
(25:25):
then you know, there's been there's been two or three
other like you know, month plus long bouts of it,
and it's just she's just there. Yeah, just just be there.
You know, we all deal with it differently. You know,
I don't need to be told you're gonna be okay
or anything like that. It seems to be present with me. Yeah,
and I can imagine it can get difficult too, where
it can get frustrating, where it's like.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think they've got to learn they don't have to
fix us, Like they don't have to there's nothing you
can do. So it's like it's but I bet, I
bet they go through that as well off, like trying
to figure out how to support without being overbearing and
not also making it worse because it's like, let me be,
let me fix you, and it's like, well, I'm not
a project to be fixed. So it's like, yeah, it's
like I empathize so much with with partners that of
(26:09):
people like us, I guess that that are going through it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But how how old are your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So my kids are four and two and one of
them's name is Oliver, so it's really going I'm like,
oh my gosh, Oliver grow an adult one.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Are you aware of like who you are in front
of your kids? Do you just be who you are?
Do you if you are going through something? Do you
show them that you know? Are you just fully transparent.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
As as much as I can be where with language
that they can understand at four and two? But mostly
for my oldest son, August me and him. He is
I'm Jonas's DNA. Didn't even try with this one. You know,
It's like he all of her is all him, artist
is all me.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, and with that.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Man like because of that the best and worst worst
parts of us not worst, but you know, best and
like hardest, just butt heads. And I have learned like
he is going to learn how to handle his overstimulation
and his anxiety and hopefully not depression. But like, if
if we are as similar as I think we are,
(27:30):
I he is going to have an incredible and very
emotionally like heavy life if he doesn't learn how to
navigate it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Can you see that? Can you witness that in him
being who you are? Yeah? Right?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
He he is obsessed with trash trucks. And it's not
when I say that, I mean he knows the name
of every single trash truck driver in my my Greater
Omaha area. He we have pictures of We've got we've
We've gone to the plant where all of them are
parked in the city and gotten a tour. And he
knows the names on the doors because they put the
(28:07):
names on the doors. He has had a birthday party
since he was first birthday of trash trucks. We have
trash can like it's his life. He wants to be
a trash driver, and he feels things so deeply, and
a lot of them are trash truck related because that's
the one thing he's very invested in. So his high
eighs and low lows are all about that. And I've
(28:29):
watched him like start weeping silently because he thought the
truck was so beautiful that he was like, I just
can't believe I only get to see it once a week,
and when I get to see it, I'm so like
lucky that I was out here when it drove by.
And when the trash truck like honks at him, he
looks back at me like, did you just see the
(28:52):
best thing that's ever happened to me? Like you were
here when you saw that? And like I like the
awe and wonder in him that I hope he never loses,
but that like I have in me, that people get
annoyed with because someone that has a lot of awe
on wonder and that empathy, that feeling deeply is like
really fun until they're stopping you because they want to
(29:15):
like take a picture of something that doesn't really matter
because they want to remember this moment forever, and so
I just try and like celebrate all of that in him.
But also there's the flip side of it, where it's
like things like a tag on his shirt will cause
him to spiral. And I'm up in the middle of
the night with scissors cutting every tag off of his
shirt and looking on Amazon for shirts that are less scratchy,
(29:38):
and it's like, I have got it. I have got
that is that is the same part in him that
is weeping at a garbage truck because it was so
beautiful that he got to see it once a week.
The city that is his brain, it's so beautiful, and
so I see, I see a lot of that the
potential for very small, seemingly small to other people, things
spiral to the point where you can't escape it on
you by yourself, and you need someone else to come
(30:00):
in and help you dig yourself out of that hole.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Now for someone who who understands this better than anybody.
And now your child is feeling these things, do you
parent him a little bit differently, knowing how to sort
of navigate potentially who he is because he's here offspring.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, I try. I try and just get him to
try and communicate with me because oftentimes the things that
are happening I'm like get angry at because you're like,
I'm tired all that. Yeah, but like I am so
keenly aware of how I had. I did not even
it wasn't even close. I didn't have what I needed
(30:43):
when I was his age, right, And I see myself
when I get angry at things that I was people
were angry at me for It is so sobering and
it is just this constant gut check. The parenthood is like,
I mean, the most why experience. It's I have breakdowns
so often of like am I just fucking him up
(31:06):
so badly? Like is he going to look back and
be like she was a terrible mom? And like what
stories is he going to tell us therapist one day?
You know. It's like, I'm sure he's going to have some.
We all have some.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Of course, I always say it's not about it if
we suck up our kids. What degree?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, and I hope it's less than you know. But
but but it's really cool because it and I okay,
and I will say, you know, people say when you
have kids. It makes it helps you understand your parents better.
I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that
at all. I have never understood them less because am
(31:40):
I overwhelmed? Yeah? Do I have panic attacks? Yeah? Do
I yell and I mess up sometimes?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
There is absolutely nothing I wouldn't do for those kids. Nothing, nothing,
and that I could. I can't. I can't actually say
that about the people that were are just raising me.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I don't disagree, you know. I mean, because my dad bailed,
but I Kurt came into my life. He's my stepdad,
so I have a family, and my mom's amazing and
all of that, you know. But I remember at a
young age, very young age, talking to my mom and thinking,
I am never going to leave my children. I will
never do that, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, just deciding like that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, it was a decision to be made.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah, what I did understand about my parents and I'm
talking about Kurt my mom now and even my dad
because my dad and are connecting now more than ever. Yeah,
after a billion years, which is nice. I said to
dream about him last night, by the way, which is crazy. Yeah,
but so I did. Once I had kids, I understood
the love that they have. Yeah, because when Mom and
(32:46):
Paul were like you know, they're there, they melt over
you when you're a teenager. When you're younger, you're like okay,
like I get yeah, I love you so much. You're
like ugh, and now, oh I understand that now because
I'm like that with my kids and they're the same way.
Like Dad like, just stop hugging me. I'm like, okay,
I can't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
In eighteen, you don't even look old enough to have
an eighteen year old, but you said eighteen. I was like,
what the hell? But like, is that crazy? Like you're like,
I still do you still see the baby?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Oh? It's crazy. It's devastating. He's going to college next year.
You know, I'm going to need some heavy consoling.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You know, do you only have one?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
I have three? I have eighteen fifteen, and then my
little girl's twelve. Yeah, and they're all amazing kids. And
you know, Wilder, my oldest, is my sensitive one. Like
he same thing with the tags when he was a baby.
He's like, you know, he's got a sensitivity thing. Yeah, yeah,
he's got he's got sort of he's got some health anxiety.
(33:40):
So every five seconds he goes, I need an MRI,
like I need a cat scan. I'm like, Wilder, you don't.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
But you know that's so deeply.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's so I know I do too, And and and
my wife Aaron's like, oh, I wonder where that comes from.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Like I know we always do that one's that one's mine.
Oh Like we never never point to like that one's
yours because we don't want them to feel like we're
like judging. But anytime August says anything like I think
we should go to the doctors, I'm like, down's mine.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know it's my son, Wilder. It's
like everything is. And meanwhile, my middle one says nothing
about the way he feels. And then six months later
he's like, yeah, my back's been really killing me for
about six months. I'm like, well, why didn't you fucking
tell me?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah? Classic middle child.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah yeah, But I am and Wilder got that from me.
I am very sensitive, like feeling wise, like I'm very
emotional and you know, feeling other people's feelings. And I
think that's part of what screws me up. Sometimes It's
like sometimes it's just overwhelming energy.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
But it's also a gift, like it allows you to
gauge the temperature of a room, it allows you to
be good at acting, writing, and it's the very thing.
It's like, the thing that makes me so good at
my job could also destroy me. So I've got to
keep it in check.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's so true and you have to sort of change it,
turn it into more of a superpower than than an affliction.
Same with the add you know, Yeah, totally, it can
be a very powerful, beautiful creative Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Of course. Yeah. I think I was going to ask
with your job, like, do you feel like you get
you can lose yourself to the feeling of it, to
the point where you realize you've accidentally, like on purpose,
put yourself in that position for a.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Role or Yes, it's funny. It's a great, great question
because it's something that I wish I could do more of.
So there's you're wrestling. I'm wrestling with two things. Going
back to the sort of the Hoffman situation, to where
I felt stupid, there's a part of me that if
I was to truly let go and immerse myself and
(35:45):
do it poorly even though it was my truth, but
I wasn't good, or at least my perception of myself.
Wasn't that that it wasn't good. Then people would not
like me. People would be like, oh, he's not he's
not What did he fucking do there? So it's it's
it's it's safer for me to play it safe.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't care.
You know, my dad, my whole family are actors, and
my brother and even Kate and cur they don't give
a fuck. It's like this I don't give a fuck attitude,
which is such a nice way to approach it.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Where do you fall in the lineup of the of
your ages?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I'm the oldest, you're the oldest.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, okay, okay, that to me makes sense because it's
like I feel like you've always lived your life with
an audience. These little kiddos are looking up to you,
even though you guys aren't like very The age differences
aren't crazy, right.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Of my siblings? Yeah no, no, I mean, well, why
my my he's my half so he's ten years but
Kate and I are blood and then I've got half.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Okay, and how how much older are you?
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Thank Kate two and a half years.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah. So it's like it's just enough to where you're like,
I mean two and a half years in grade school
is a lot, because that's like senior and sophomore. Do
you like a freshman or sophomore?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, psycho, Yeah, it's like it's like a
sophomore senior.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah. So at those ages, which is when a lot
of your identity and like the things that you will
carry forever are like being formed as like a person
an individual. It's like you were constantly doing that, almost
like a trailblazer for someone that was younger than you,
that was watching you, and so like to fail would
mean like I'm not giving a good example, and also
(37:29):
like I've got to get it right, but you don't
have anyone to look at that's doing it before you.
And so it's like that fear of like I just
have to get it right and I don't want to
be embarrassed and I want people to think I'm good.
Is like I can't imagine that that doesn't at least
play a little bit of a yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
For sure, one hundred percent. And and just this idea
that you know, going even deeper. Dad left because I
wasn't lovable, which is ridiculous, but as a little as
a five year old, that's what you take it as.
So if I can not rock a boat, if I
can just sort of be cool and have no one
dislike me, then I'm safe. Yeah you know what I mean, Well,
(38:08):
I'm safe.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Do you find that you also are, Like you were
passive as a kid or.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, Yeah, I was. It was it was a little
bit of both. I mean, until Kurt came into my life,
I was very at mama's boy. I was very shy,
and then he brought me to Colorado and sort of
taught me independence, you know, some tough lessons that were
great lessons of just feeling alone and having panic but
understanding like there's no need to because I can get
(38:34):
us home. You know, just just you know, just this
sort of just advocating for myself at a young age,
knowing that I was stronger than I was. You know,
those are the things that he gave me. I was
I was five years six years old, six years old
when he came in, sort of six seven years old
when he sort of became my stepdad.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
That's really beautiful that like you still got that in somebody,
and it was like almost even it's powerful and like
he's not your blood, but he loved you and led
you and treated you like you were so important that
it's like just because you aren't my like blood relative,
like you are important enough for me to care for.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Oh yeah really really yeah, he understood the circumstances as well.
He basically came to us as kids and said, hey,
no matter what happens with me and your mom, because
life is life, who the hell knows, but I will
never leave you. I will always be here for you
whatever happens. But you know, it was at that young
age where he reassured us that there will always be
(39:34):
a man in your life no matter what happens with
me and your mother, right, yeah, And we believed him,
you know, and yeah, you know, so far, so good man.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think that, like I don't really give credit to
how because I've it's not a reality for me to
like have a older figures except my brothers, to really
look up to.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
That.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
I forget how important it is, you know, like this
like longing in you to have that. I forget that.
It's like, yeah, no, wonder you know, like you know
what I mean, Like I just hearing this, I actually
can't fathom it. I can't fathom that experience that you've
had with Kirk, and so yeah, I think it's really
sobering for me to hear that, because it's like, just
(40:18):
be a little easier on yourself. It's all good, Like
it's all good, buddy, Like you're figuring it out and
you're doing a great job because you're doing this from scratch,
and so it's really helpful.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
This is what I was saying before. It's like, it's
so interesting. The human condition is so interesting perspective. I
just love it. It just gets me going back to your life,
like how did you How did you make this your life?
(40:52):
You know, I mean when did you get on social media?
At what point did you realize, Wow, you know I
have I'm amassing followers and I'm actually affecting people. I'm
touching people here, and I'm assuming that was the that
was the point where you said, oh, wow, I can
make some sort of a difference here and and really
ignite my platforms.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah. To be honest, it was not an intentional decision
until it was. We were way far into it. So
I was running a I created like a web development company,
and I was a coder and a designer, and that
was like what I was really good at and I
loved it, and I was doing that from home when
COVID was happening, and but I was also going through
(41:35):
lots of really dark like when I had when I
was in postpartum, like I had, I was hit with
some of the darkest light thoughts, depression like it was
just so it was so long, like a year. It
was so bad, and I was still act. You know,
no one would have known, which is like crazy that
you can just hide that. And I because I just
(41:57):
felt like if I said anything, like someone was going
to like take my son and I'll like, I'm okay.
But just like I've never it was unlike any kind
of depression I'd ever experienced. And so I remembered trying
to reconnect with myself, and I like, you, I've always
been a journaler, so I was like I would be
writing these things, and I was like, I have got
to remember who I was before I had this baby,
(42:18):
because if I don't, I don't think I'm gonna make it.
Because it felt like my whole life just restarted and
my brain was wiped. And I was like, we've got
to reconnect, We've got to build that bridge back to
who you were, because that's really important. She's really important
and we can't lose her. And so I started telling
stories about my life, like really simple little stories, and
(42:40):
it was just the perfect combination of like people being
home and on their phones, me know, being a writer,
but never like like then I was like performing the stories.
But then I was like I was an editor, so
I was editing, like animating these stories. And then I'm
also like I don't really have a good awareness of
(43:00):
what you should and shouldn't say, so I was saying
things that other people were like, oh, she's just like
saying things other people like keep quiet. But in my mind,
I was like, this isn't revolutionary. I'm just letting people
know I had a panic attack yesterday, Like I don't.
That doesn't feel like I feel like you're so brave.
It's like, oh, should I have not said? That's when
I'm like, did I say something I shouldn't have said?
You know, when people are like commenting on that. And
(43:21):
so the perfect combination of all of that just connected
with people and it started growing very quickly, like very rapidly,
And never did I think this was going to be
like a full time job, because that at that time,
would be so irresponsible to like, I just had a baby,
I have a full company I've built from the ground
up that's thriving. It's like, yeah, I'll just throw it
(43:43):
all away and make some videos on the internet. It
was like that so silly to me in my mind. Yeah,
And then once it got to the point where I
was having to choose between spending my time working at
my web dev company or making videos and then seeing
how much like you could make if you just actually
like focused on it, I was like it now would
(44:05):
be irresponsible of me to know that and still choose this.
So I made the transition, and that's kind of been
my life since. But I've always treated it as like
this is still the thing I'm doing to reconnect with myself.
I'm still writing, I'm still remembering who I was and
who I am, And honestly, people in the Internet have
watched me become more of myself than I ever have been.
(44:28):
Like this last year has been so transformative for me,
like feeling like I'm learning parts of myself in front
of millions of people, and finally, like like what you
said of feeling embarrassed, I have a lot of those
in different fonts and flavors of my life. It's not
so much giving all. It's people have this idea of
who I am and in their head as a person,
(44:50):
and if I sway from that at all, they're going
to be like, why are you tranks hard? Or like,
you know, like I've never been very girly until because
I had three older brothers, So I'm learning how to
like feel more feminine. But am I doing this because
I feel like I should or because I want to?
And so like just doing all of that, And it's
just being open about things like that with people. It
(45:14):
they see themselves in it and they just want to
join in. And that's kind of how well.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
To help your own mentality, your own mental states, your
own anxieties and depressions and all of this, to expose
yourself and get out there.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
It made it worse, Yeah, did made it worse? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, So you were almost sacrificing yourself a little bit
for this endeavor.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I did it with the understanding that I would feel
that way any with any career change I was making
when I didn't set out to make it. So I
had to really pick apart what I was feeling and understand.
And that's why I waited so long to transition as well,
because I knew I like, I couldn't really once I
(45:52):
got to a certain point, I can't really go back,
like with who I am. It's like I'm always going
to run into people that know me and it's going
to change that of my life forever, no matter what,
even if it stopped right now. And so I was like,
I'm not going to let go until I'm very sure
this is what I want. And so I also knew
there's going to be a transition period where this is
(46:13):
going to feel really scary. And of course millions of
people like I say this a lot, but the human
brain is like not built to be famous. Human heart,
It's not You're not meant to know this much information
about you and opinions and be in front of that
many people and be celebrated when this person doesn't know
who you are. It's like, that's a very weird thing
for the human heart to experience. And so yeah, I
(46:36):
had to believe that I'm either going to get used
to this and enjoy it or I'm not, and I'm
going to let it go because I will not let
it take me out.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
And then you eventually figure transitioned into that place of
acceptance and enjoy it. I mean, yeah, there's got to
be some enjoyment to it. Oh, I love it. Now
you're making money, which we all have to do, but
you're also doing it in a way that you know
you're helping people and to be crazy.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
For me, I'm a professional creative.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
It's like pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
It's the actual dream and I don't niche down. I
make whatever I want.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Are you? Are you inspired? Meaning like are your Is
your social media like an inspired by or is it
a job in the sense that I have to put
stuff out? I have to be part of an algorithm.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
You know that I have literally never treated it that way.
I post when I want to. Yeah, I personally thrive
on structure, and so I like to have a schedule.
I don't plan posts out, but like, yeah, I think
for me, the open endedness of like coming because this
is my office. So I live in our house and
(47:39):
then I have this house that is like a studio
in different rooms, and so to walk in and just
be like what am I gonna do today? That I
would never that would be so overwhelming to me.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, I feel that yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
So I have to have like a structure of like
today's the day I film like today, and then today's
the day I edit, Today's the day I write. This
is a music day if I want to do it,
and I can shift it around, but having that structure helps.
But yeah, it's I genuinely, I'm just making content on
what I'm currently hyper fixated on. And so right now
it's the book because it kind of has to be.
(48:12):
But like of other times, I'm super into like ear
harmony stimming, like I want to hear the dissonance and
like resonance between two notes, so I build like harmony
building and live looping and and then other times I'm
super into a reality TV show, so I make my
whole feed if I was a bachelor on the contestant
on the Bachelor and that green screen. Myself really poorly
(48:34):
into these things, and I'm just asking people questions and
having I'm just taking things I love and letting people
into it. It's really fun.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Well, let's get into the book now that you brought
it up. Talk about the book. Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
This is my book. I wrote it.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's my face, it's your face. You wrote it all
by yourself.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Oh, by myself, illustrate it. Here's the end pages. I
like to show people it's my desk, and yeah, it's
it's short stories. It's not a memoir. It's like it's
Some are poems, like allegorical poems that are based on
true stories. Some are straightforward narrative, but it's like, you know,
composites of people, so I don't get sued all that, like,
(49:13):
but like, yeah, it's it's so it's it's one of
the coolest creative things I've ever made. I'm so proud
of it. It was it took so long, but when
I read them the stories back, like it's it's just
so rich. The writing is so fun. It's such a
fun read. But it's also like got so much heart
in it because it's like funny. But then you just
(49:35):
kind of like the content I make on the Internet,
it's like it'll swoop down into like but also everything's
gonna be okay and like and you're okay, you know,
and I like I like doing that. I like just
I like adding that into everything I do because a
lot of what I'm making has come from a memory
that I have felt, processed and then learned from and
(49:56):
so like, I like to be able to give that
to somebody as well and everything that I make. So
getting to pepper that through my books been really.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Have you did you create a structure for the book
before you started or was it kind of like, okay,
page one.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Well it's it's I mean, I wrote this book twenty
times over in different ways, and so yeah, Like I
essentially was like, I don't know where to start because
I didn't it's not chronological. I didn't want it to
be like this is a memoir, so I just started
writing and then and then I would get inspired by
what I was writing. Have you ever read the book
Bird by Bird by An LaMotte.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
No, I'm on such a reading kick right now. It's insane.
I can't stop reading, Oliver, you have I read forty
books this year so far. I'm like, yeah, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
You have to Yeah, bird by Bird and okay. So
I was reading that at the time and it really
helped me push through a lot of my fear. Essentially,
the idea is like, if you're a writer, then you
should write, and doesn't matter if it's good or bad,
you should be writing.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
God, I need to read it because this is what
I'm best at. I won, I wont awards as a
kid for writing I wrote. I wrote a short story
called Elevators to the Moon in fourth grade that it
was so I have it and I i'm reading it.
I read it back, I'm like, this is fucking good.
And I won like the Amates International Award, and I
got my first pay check and it's frame. It's what
I love to do. But my add or whatever it is,
(51:14):
I get so bound up in the enormity of it
that I I'm like, ah, fuck this, I can't.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
You have to she makes it so I just I
really as it. The longer I've been talking to you,
the more I'm like, I think you would love that book.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Okay, I'm going to get it.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
But so so a lot of the process happened because
I was reading that, and then I was trying to
put this together and I had I think I just
said this. Someone else can't remember, but I was saying.
I flew to New York and I was in a
hotel room for a week to write the book. I
was like, I'm not leaving this hotel room until the
book is done. And I felt like I was metaphorically
like banging my head against a wall. Third day in,
(51:53):
I hadn't written anything, and I was like, I am
such a failure. And now I've wasted money on a
hotel room for a week and this really nice place.
And I remembered sitting there in the my like flannel
was it was hanging in the closet, and I was like,
I wonder if this flannel thinks I'm such an idiot
that like it's just watching me waste time. And then
I saw myself like pacing back and forth from the
(52:14):
point of view through the slats of this flannel in
the closet, and I was like, I'm just going to
write a story about how this how upset this flannel
is that I took it all the way to New
York and it didn't It didn't even get used because
I didn't write it. And then that ended up changing
the trajectory of the whole book because I included that
was the idea. I changed it to make it fit
what I was doing. But that same idea of like
(52:36):
a story from the perspective of a shirt, it's a
very fun bote.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Well, I can't wait. I gotta get it. I got
to read your book This was so much fun talking
to you. I could talk. Thank you so much much
much longer.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Okay, great, well I'll talk talk to bye bye.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Oh man. That time went fast, fast, fast, I was
That felt like one of the fastest hours I've had
in a long time. Yeah, I keep going. I could
keep going with her. It's just fascinating stuff. Thank you, Elise.
That was fucking awesome, really cool. I can't wait to
read your book. Everyone should pick up that book. By
the way, everyone should pick up that book. It's called
(53:14):
That's a Great Question I'd love to tell you by
Elie Myers. And it's available now, so go check it out,
all right, Oliver Hudson gone,
Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling Railvalry, No, no, sibling, Rail, don't do that
with your mouth revely, that's good. I have been and
(00:42):
I've said this before, but like I guess officially diagnosed
with ADD or ADHD or whatever the fuck it is,
whatever whichever letter you want to put in there. I
don't know. I had a brain scan by this guy,
doctor Amon. He was on our podcast. We were on
his podcast. Was incredible to sort of look at your
brain and really in apped and see how it's functioning,
see what kind of physical trauma has happened to it
(01:04):
through concussions or even head or even head bangs or whatever,
and then you know, getting into sort of the ADHD
and you can see it anyway. Point is they gave
me these patches and essentially it's amphetamine. And I tried one,
you know, I've been doing one. I'm like, I think
I feel okay, you know, I think I I think
(01:25):
I feel like more awake, I guess, but it's not
like all of a sudden I'm sitting down on my
computer and writing scripts and conquering the world. And then
I tried two of them. They gave me a low dose,
like a four and a half milligram. Then I tried
another one. So I was nine and I did that
a couple of days ago, and it was like it
was nutty. It was nutty because I'm not used to
(01:47):
that shit. I'm not a speed guy, you know, like
that an fhetamine and think like hey, And I couldn't
decide whether I was gonna, you know, save the world
or just sort of ball up and get into my
bed and cry. I chose to save the world, but
I want to another. I went. I doubled it up today.
(02:10):
I doubled it up today just for this and let's
see what happens. Let's see what happens. I can't even
pronounce the name of it of what's on what kind
of weird patch I have on? But uh yeah, I'm
on fire, baby, I'm on fire. So let's bring in
(02:30):
to talk about my ADHD patches. Atlise Myers going in,
How are you good? Are you? I'm good? I was
just doing, you know, I do a little intro before
the show and I was just talking about how I
did this brain scan with this guy doctor Amen, and
(02:53):
it was really incredible, and it was like a three
day thing. They put an IV in you, which he
radioactive material, so great, apparently you know, I'm viren Man.
And then they put you in the scan. Well actually
they put the IV in and then they give you
They take you through a on a computer screen. You
(03:14):
have to do all of these sort of quizzes and
tests and it's sort of activating and stimulating your brain.
And then they put you in the in the in
the in the scan and then the next day you
come back and you just relax. They put the radioactive
material into your IV and then you kind of just relax.
So there's a real mapping of how your brain is
(03:35):
functioning given activity and given downtime. Wow, it's pretty an
intensive process. All this to say that, you know, I've
known it. But he's like, oh, you have ADD or
ADHD or whatever one it is, right.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
How does it feel to hear someone say that versus
just having a suspicion.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It didn't matter to me sure personally, you know, because
it wasn't There's so much to talk about because I've
I'm on twenty grams of twenty milligrams of lexapro. Like,
I've been dealing with anxiety since I was in my
mid twenties when I had my first sort of gnarly
panic attack, So it all sort of understandably probably goes
hand in hand, But it was never something that I
(04:14):
needed to diagnosis for to make me feel better necessarily,
like accommodation or anything. Yeah, it was more of just
oh yeah, I mean that makes sense. Yeah, you know,
because it's always felt like I can grind and I
can get after it. But yeah, there's this part of
me that knows I have never reached my full potential
because I felt like I was incapacitated somehow or I
(04:37):
couldn't get through something.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, do you feel like sometimes it's also helped you though,
to grind, like that hyperfixation and that need for stimulation
and all that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeh See, it's funny because I don't think I have
that part. I got all the I got all the
shit parts I didn't get there. Really, I'm just gonna
I'm just gonna sort of just lock in. There are
moments when I can, but it's not that like hyper
focus that I will see with people who have ADHD.
Sure just lock in anyway. They put me on these
(05:10):
patches and it's I forget what the fuck it's called,
but it's like an ADHD type of a patch. It's
only four and a half milligrams.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Of like a stimulant.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It's a stimulant. Yeah, it's like it's fetter meane, it's
it's I think it's a derivative of all adderall. You know,
it's like debt from morphine or some some fiend. And uh,
you know I would feel good, but I think I
feel awake or you know, nothing. That was overpowering and
(05:42):
then life changing. I decided to double up.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
And and is that where we're at today?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I don't know. I mean I tried it today too,
but two days ago I tried it and it was
definitely a trip. You know. It was really a little anxiety,
a little like holy shit, you know what I mean,
Like can I conquer the world or do I need
to like crawl up into a ball here? You know.
It was this oscillating sort of feeling.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
That's it's so it's I have been medicated for my
ADHD since I was sixteen, and it's so it's like
now it's such a part of my life that I
I can't believe I ever went without being medicated. It's
like it's it's an on and off switch, and it's
like just makes my baseline. So it's so it's cool
to find things that work. And so I'm curious to
(06:25):
know if the four milligrams is helpful for you or
if it's eight or nothing.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, I don't know. I have to figure that one out.
I have to figure out if an amphetamine is something
that I can vibe with or not. Now I also
think I need to create a task to almost as
a as a trial period. Say, I'm not just going
to put a patch on it and go through my day, right,
I'm going to take this medication and sit down and
(06:50):
write a script or I am going to clean the gate.
Yesize it exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I love that. I like that. That's how your brain works.
It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah. I mean all of this to say, this is
very timely, and I'm happier here because you you know,
this is what you do, this is what you are,
this is why you are who you are, And so
I'm curious to sort of even know, starting at the
beginning of this, how did you discover that you sort
of felt this way? I read that you had your
(07:20):
first panic attack at seven years old, and yeah, you know,
so how did you come into this ADHD? Just in general?
You know, I mean my first panic attack was at
twenty five. You know, at seven, do you even know
what's happening to you? Thought? No.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
The only way I knew what was happening to me
was because I have much older brothers. So there are seven,
eight and ten years older than me, and all of
us have some flavor of anxiety or you know, neuro
not like neurodivergence in some way. And so what I
was I was having what I kept saying, like I
think I'm having a heart attack or a stroke or something,
(07:59):
is what I had said. And I couldn't catch my breath,
and I wanted to cry, but I couldn't cry. I
felt like I was like being suffocated by needing to cry.
And my brother goes, just try coughing. Just all you
need to do, is like, because that was what he
helped him get a panic attack out, and it like
kind of jolts your heart to start pumping normally. So
(08:19):
I started coughing and it worked, and he goes, Yep,
you're having a panic attack. And I was like, what
is that, you know, and he walked me through it,
and yeah, I think I just grew up in a
household where it was very I mean we all had
to go to therapy because of my parents' divorce very early.
So medical clinical help was around, and that terminology was
(08:41):
around very early, earlier than I maybe even like should
have been, just because I was kind of the outlier
of like the ages of what was happening. So I
was lumped into conversations that were just like a little older.
But then it wasn't until so that was like the
anxiety and the depression kind of part, and we weren't
sure was it chemical? Is it like situational with the
(09:02):
home situation. But then when I was sixteen, it was
really fascinating. I was becoming like very obsessive over trying
to like study, and I was presenting essentially as like
someone with like ADHD, like very high high hyperactive like ADHD.
And I was failing all my classes. And I had
(09:25):
gotten treatment for like body image eating stuff at like
fifteen ish, and I was I was going through the
outpatient process of the therapy. One of the psychologists was like,
have you ever been assessed for ADHD? And I was like,
uh no, And he's like, it's so funny. Because not funny,
but it's so interesting because I see so much overlap
(09:47):
in young girls that struggle with obsessive like food stuff
and body stuff with neurodivergence, and there's actually so much
more overlap than people understand. And he's like, a lot
of this I think would really resolve for you if
you just got on a very small, small dose of
something that could just connect the wires in your brain
that aren't firing together that should be. And I got assessed,
(10:09):
I went on meds and it was like, for the
very first time in my life, I was not being
dragged behind my own mind. Like I was in the
car in the driver's seat, and I controlled how fast
we were going or slow, the windows were up or down,
if the radio was on, who was in my car,
And it was like, I think that this is how
(10:31):
people probably just feel all the time. And it was
pretty powerful for me. And then I never really went back.
It was just it was like I felt like, Okay,
now my life is starting, and it was really cool.
I think that for me that diagnosis was helpful because
it allowed me to make changes in my life that
shifted and built my life in a way that served me,
(10:54):
rather than me trying to fit my life in a
way that made sense to other people. So that's why
that was helpful to me.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
What did it feel like to you before those meds
reconnected those wires? You know? Yeah, what was that feeling?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It was like you know, when you overcaffeinate yourself and
you're sitting there and you're like cold, sweating and you're
talking to someone, you keep cutting yourself off. It would
feel like everything was bottlenecking in me, like every thought
and feeling, and I think I tried to get out.
It would make me so anxious. I would just be
(11:31):
like silent because I was trying to prioritize which thoughts
were important to share and which weren't. And I had
no filter. And I still don't like a lot of
these things are just me as well, so I don't
want to take those away. But it allowed me to
decide and slow my brain down a little bit and
decide which thoughts I was going to share and which
(11:53):
strings I was going to pull out in conversation. It
wasn't like I was just frantically trying to like hold
on to every single rope around me, you know, and
hang on.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Were you aware that you were feeling these things and
it was not necessarily normal or was it normal for you?
Or did you understand that something's off here? I have
to figure this out.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I for sure felt like something was off, not because
I thought it was anything fixable. I just thought I
was really stupid. Like I thought I was a bad student.
I thought I was selfish. I mean when that I
couldn't I couldn't focus on someone, I'm like, am I
just self absorbed? That? Like I can't pay attention to
you and hear what you're saying long enough for me
to get my own thoughts out of the way. Like
(12:40):
I felt lazy because I couldn't focus on anything long enough.
So I'm like, what if I just don't love it,
I can't do it, which is just yeah, it's like
and there's a lot of shame attached to that as well.
And I wanted to be good and I wanted to
be liked, and I wanted to be successful, and I
wanted people to be proud of me, and it felt
(13:01):
like I just wasn't going to be a person that
could do things and achieve things, and I didn't fit
the way I wanted to. And though it wasn't a
one to one output of like how hard I was
working versus the results of what I was getting, and
it just felt like I was kind of swimming upstream
the whole time. But never once was I like something
can be fixed in this. I just internalized that as
(13:24):
this is I'm just bad all around. Like that's essentially
the main takeaway was I'm.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Just bad, but just this is who I am.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, I'm just I'm bad. I'm bad, student, bad, listener, everything.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Did you have moments of clarity, those sort of you
know eddies in the in the in the stream where
all of a sudden you're like, holy shit, I'm in,
I'm in, I'm in, I'm focusing on I fucking on
it and then boom it goes away like unmedicated unmedicated.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, definitely, So that's where that's where Like for me,
so I'm also autistic, and there's a lot of overlap
in those, which is cool because sometimes my my special
interests in my and like hyperfixations of of me and
my autism would supersede my inability to focus, so I
(14:15):
would get into these moments like so great example is
I learned viola. I'm classically trained violist, and I started
when I was really young, and I would lock myself
in my room and play for ten hours, like I
would for I wouldn't drink water, I wouldn't eat. I
like that obsessive hyperfixation when when people that are autistic
(14:39):
have special interests like that is very a common pattern.
And so I did have those bursts of like, okay,
it's not, it's not it's not all the time me.
But it almost made it harder because then when I
couldn't force myself to do that in other areas, I
didn't understand why, so that when it was like oh so,
(15:01):
and also to other people, they didn't understand why, like
why can you sit and play buela for ten hours
but all you need to do is sit and do
your mouth. I work for thirty minutes and you just
keep getting up and you have to pee and you
have you go water, and you're like maybe in a snack,
and it's like I just couldn't lock in. So it
almost made it harder that I experienced those little bits
of goodness because then it's like, well it is really
(15:23):
my fault.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Then, yeah, how much of this do you think is
sort of a circumstantial like you talked about before, and
how much does genetics play into this?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I mean that's probably a question for a doctor.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I was wanting to say, is there science on that?
You know? Yeah, I mean I know my mother was
dealing with anxiety. You know. My son Wilder is now eighteen.
When he was thirteen years old, he went through about
where he just felt He kept saying to me, Dad,
I don't feel real, which is like disassociation, you know,
which I could completely relate to, because when I was
(16:07):
going through my shit, and you know, every now and again,
it's like, uh, I'm not I don't think I'm on
this earth right now, like what the fun?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And it's and you can't really explain that to someone
that's never experienced it, because you're not like having an
outer body experience. It's like you're you're it almost is
like this hopelessness. When I experience that, you feel like
you're like this is the routine of every single day,
and I don't feel like a real human being. I'm
like I've checked out and I'm just it's happening to
me and through me, but I'm not here like that
(16:35):
feeling is so crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Genetically, I mean definitely, there's science that links genetics with
with mental health and neurodivergence, which is why when that's
which is why I got diagnosed as autistic, or why
I pursued a diagnosis even though I knew I was
because when my sons go to be assessed one day,
if they do, it's so much easier to get in,
(16:57):
and the wait list is so like you long? Really, yes,
I had to personally wait eight months, and I'm in Nebraska,
where there's no waiting list for like anything, and I
still had to wait eight months, and then the process
is like seven to eight months long because you have
to keep going back. It is such an intense process.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Why why is the waiting list so long? Is this
bureaucracy shit?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I think, well, for adults, it's because why does it matter?
Why do you need to know? There's also no medication
to like heal it or fix it? There's like some
there's some things you can take, but there's no like
here you're autistic, here's mids you know. But I think
that also like the assessment process is so long and arduous,
(17:44):
and it takes a very specifically trained a professional, and
there's not a lot of them, because I think that
it's very recent that people have realized how prevalent neurodivergence is.
I think it's very easy to diagnose a ten year
old boy because they present very differferently than than women do.
And so I think we're just now starting to get
(18:05):
into a different season of the neurodivergent world where we're
seeing it earlier and we're able to like get more
people trained to accommodate. I think it's really important that
young people have access to that because my life would
have been drastically different if I would have just given
been given a little bit different of a setup, like
(18:28):
anything I like being able to self teach, like being
able to have a little control over my schedule, any
any of it. I just wouldn't have felt like I
was bad. That would have changed my self esteem my
whole life.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Sure, and obviously information is so powerful as far as
the way that you think and feel about yourself and
who you are. If there is a diagnosis where it's
like oh shit, okay, this is who I am Yeah,
I'm OK. Now this is not I'm not just sort
of floating in the ether right now, totally. I can
(19:01):
get my feet on the ground with this.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, how long have you been interested in pursuing this?
Like why did you go to that brain scan?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I'm an actor, but like if I was not, I
would love to be in the world of psychology. I
just love the human condition. It's so interesting to me
how we are all made up of the same stuff,
but we're so drastically you know, diverse, and how we
feel and how we think, and how we act and
how we respond to certain things, our sensitivities, you know,
(19:32):
all of that. And I think that honestly stems from
my first bout with anxiety, which was in my mid twenties. Yeah,
and it came from wanting to be better and just
feel like myself again. And then once I had a
grip on that, then it just became more interested and
fascinated in sort of the world of it in the
(19:55):
brain and why this is happening. But to get over
my first bout, I just wrote a ton in my
journal and I was heavy meditating, and I go up
to my rock, you know, every day in sort of
wilderness and I would just get quiet and write and
then I got through it, but there was this residual
feeling of unease and that's when I went on Selexa,
(20:16):
and that's when it sort of took everything away.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Do you find that you being creative helps you when
you're in those seasons or do you feel like your
creativity is gone when you're in that season?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
No, it helps when I'm pen to paper. For me
is always great. My expression personal like in person expression,
vulnerability has always been tough for me. In person, I've
always been able to express myself through the written word.
It's much easier for me. I like to write. It
feels good to write.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, I have to take breaks from therapy because I
find like I'm over therapized sometimes because it makes me
very intellectual about what I'm doing. But like, understanding your
feelings is not the same thing as processing and feeling
them Like that is actually a complete like run away
(21:08):
from it because you're like, well, if I can figure
it out, then I'm good, and it's like no. Sometimes
literally it is trapped in your body and you need
to get it out, like you have got to get
it out. It is poison and so learning how to
feel things. I'm in that process right now because I
can tell you every single thing of why I do it,
but like I will go numb before I actually feel
(21:32):
it and a stonewall. I'm not a yeller, I'm not.
I will just like do meet like fool me once
you're dead to me, Like that's really where how I operate.
And so I'm learning how to not do that. But
it's really hard because it can feel like you have
to go through this purging process of like overfeeling things
(21:54):
to the point where you're like, Okay, one day this
is going to stabilize. But right now everything is making
me feel too much and it's overwhelming, and I just
for stimulated.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Completely understand that because that over therapy thing. I haven't
been in therapy in a little bit because of that too.
It's like, let me just take a break from all
of this. Yeah, you know. And sometimes when I get
into a state of anxiety, which even can happen when
you're on meds, you know, it's not hard to deal with.
And I'm like a seasoned veteran, so if some check up,
I'm like, Okay, I know what it is. I got it.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I can like feel it in the air.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yes, I can feel it. And instead of being like, oh,
well it's this is this man, your brain starts to
tick off all of the past therapies and books you've
read and articles, and finally, like Oliver, shut up. Just exist,
just exist, Just exist and just roll with it. You're good.
Just and exist because they can you can ruminate on
(22:50):
all of the potential lessons and and all the remedies
that you have in your brain to have helped yourself
feel better instead of just saying just chill for a second.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I think. I think like it's it's it's really
transformed my brain chemistry literally to be married to somebody
who like actually loves me and when he says it,
he means it, and he loves all of it, like
all of the seasons that we can feel coming from
a mile away, like for me to be in that season,
(23:22):
I think that like my at least my experience, I
want to ruminate and fix it because I feel like
a problem to people, and I feel like I'm a
burden and I feel like people are watching me go
through this and it's like fine for a little bit,
but if it goes longer, then a little bit. Then
it's like, okay, can you just get back? Like where
where do the other at least go? Like I want
her back now, you know. It's like we're done, We're good,
(23:43):
And so I work really hard at like Okay, why
am I this way? And let me fix it? Let
me go to therapy, let me just change my diet again,
and like start working out. And I think like being partnered,
like life partnered with someone like where I'm having a
down day and I'm crying and I'm apologizing because I'm
like I don't know why, I don't know what's going on.
(24:04):
He'll just look at me and be like, you don't
need to know. You don't need to explain it to
me or to yourself. You don't need to explain it
to our boys. Like if you just don't feel good
and you feel like it would be better if you
just laid in bed for a little bit and we
close the blinds and you watched a stupid show that
turned your brain off, Like you don't need to explain why, right,
And just the permission to not have to know almost
(24:28):
immediately like relieves the pressure and the things have more
space to be Like it's like the tank was immediately
just like grown and that it just dissolves a little bit,
you know, it's like thinner and lighter, and.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Well, it's interesting. But you know, in your journey, in
my journey, and I don't know whether you talk about
this in your book as well, but you know, the
spouse or the person on the other side of it
is so important to everything that you are. Yeah, and
my wife Erin is amazing that way. When it first
happening though in our twenties, when we were just dating,
(25:03):
scary it was for her. She was extremely compassionate, but
at the same time, like what's wrong, Like your life
is good, Like you're a successful you're acting as successful.
You come from a good family, Like we're in love,
Like what's going on? I don't fucking know. I don't know.
I'm just crazy, But at least they feel crazy. And
(25:25):
then you know, there's been there's been two or three
other like you know, month plus long bouts of it,
and it's just she's just there. Yeah, just just be there.
You know, we all deal with it differently. You know,
I don't need to be told you're gonna be okay
or anything like that. It seems to be present with me. Yeah,
and I can imagine it can get difficult too, where
it can get frustrating, where it's like.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I think they've got to learn they don't have to
fix us, Like they don't have to there's nothing you
can do. So it's like it's but I bet, I
bet they go through that as well off, like trying
to figure out how to support without being overbearing and
not also making it worse because it's like, let me be,
let me fix you, and it's like, well, I'm not
a project to be fixed. So it's like, yeah, it's
like I empathize so much with with partners that of
(26:09):
people like us, I guess that that are going through it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
But how how old are your kids?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
So my kids are four and two and one of
them's name is Oliver, so it's really going I'm like,
oh my gosh, Oliver grow an adult one.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Are you aware of like who you are in front
of your kids? Do you just be who you are?
Do you if you are going through something? Do you
show them that you know? Are you just fully transparent.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
As as much as I can be where with language
that they can understand at four and two? But mostly
for my oldest son, August me and him. He is
I'm Jonas's DNA. Didn't even try with this one. You know,
It's like he all of her is all him, artist
is all me.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, and with that.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Man like because of that the best and worst worst
parts of us not worst, but you know, best and
like hardest, just butt heads. And I have learned like
he is going to learn how to handle his overstimulation
and his anxiety and hopefully not depression. But like, if
if we are as similar as I think we are,
(27:30):
I he is going to have an incredible and very
emotionally like heavy life if he doesn't learn how to
navigate it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Can you see that? Can you witness that in him
being who you are? Yeah? Right?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
He he is obsessed with trash trucks. And it's not
when I say that, I mean he knows the name
of every single trash truck driver in my my Greater
Omaha area. He we have pictures of We've got we've
We've gone to the plant where all of them are
parked in the city and gotten a tour. And he
knows the names on the doors because they put the
(28:07):
names on the doors. He has had a birthday party
since he was first birthday of trash trucks. We have
trash can like it's his life. He wants to be
a trash driver, and he feels things so deeply, and
a lot of them are trash truck related because that's
the one thing he's very invested in. So his high
eighs and low lows are all about that. And I've
(28:29):
watched him like start weeping silently because he thought the
truck was so beautiful that he was like, I just
can't believe I only get to see it once a week,
and when I get to see it, I'm so like
lucky that I was out here when it drove by.
And when the trash truck like honks at him, he
looks back at me like, did you just see the
(28:52):
best thing that's ever happened to me? Like you were
here when you saw that? And like I like the
awe and wonder in him that I hope he never loses,
but that like I have in me, that people get
annoyed with because someone that has a lot of awe
on wonder and that empathy, that feeling deeply is like
really fun until they're stopping you because they want to
(29:15):
like take a picture of something that doesn't really matter
because they want to remember this moment forever, and so
I just try and like celebrate all of that in him.
But also there's the flip side of it, where it's
like things like a tag on his shirt will cause
him to spiral. And I'm up in the middle of
the night with scissors cutting every tag off of his
shirt and looking on Amazon for shirts that are less scratchy,
(29:38):
and it's like, I have got it. I have got
that is that is the same part in him that
is weeping at a garbage truck because it was so
beautiful that he got to see it once a week.
The city that is his brain, it's so beautiful, and
so I see, I see a lot of that the
potential for very small, seemingly small to other people, things
spiral to the point where you can't escape it on
you by yourself, and you need someone else to come
(30:00):
in and help you dig yourself out of that hole.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Now for someone who who understands this better than anybody.
And now your child is feeling these things, do you
parent him a little bit differently, knowing how to sort
of navigate potentially who he is because he's here offspring.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Yeah, I try. I try and just get him to
try and communicate with me because oftentimes the things that
are happening I'm like get angry at because you're like,
I'm tired all that. Yeah, but like I am so
keenly aware of how I had. I did not even
it wasn't even close. I didn't have what I needed
(30:43):
when I was his age, right, And I see myself
when I get angry at things that I was people
were angry at me for It is so sobering and
it is just this constant gut check. The parenthood is like,
I mean, the most why experience. It's I have breakdowns
so often of like am I just fucking him up
(31:06):
so badly? Like is he going to look back and
be like she was a terrible mom? And like what
stories is he going to tell us therapist one day?
You know. It's like, I'm sure he's going to have some.
We all have some.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Of course, I always say it's not about it if
we suck up our kids. What degree?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Yeah, and I hope it's less than you know. But
but but it's really cool because it and I okay,
and I will say, you know, people say when you
have kids. It makes it helps you understand your parents better.
I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that
at all. I have never understood them less because am
(31:40):
I overwhelmed? Yeah? Do I have panic attacks? Yeah? Do
I yell and I mess up sometimes?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
There is absolutely nothing I wouldn't do for those kids. Nothing, nothing,
and that I could. I can't. I can't actually say
that about the people that were are just raising me.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I don't disagree, you know. I mean, because my dad bailed,
but I Kurt came into my life. He's my stepdad,
so I have a family, and my mom's amazing and
all of that, you know. But I remember at a
young age, very young age, talking to my mom and thinking,
I am never going to leave my children. I will
never do that, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, just deciding like that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, it was a decision to be made.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah, what I did understand about my parents and I'm
talking about Kurt my mom now and even my dad
because my dad and are connecting now more than ever. Yeah,
after a billion years, which is nice. I said to
dream about him last night, by the way, which is crazy. Yeah,
but so I did. Once I had kids, I understood
the love that they have. Yeah, because when Mom and
(32:46):
Paul were like you know, they're there, they melt over
you when you're a teenager. When you're younger, you're like okay,
like I get yeah, I love you so much. You're
like ugh, and now, oh I understand that now because
I'm like that with my kids and they're the same way.
Like Dad like, just stop hugging me. I'm like, okay,
I can't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
In eighteen, you don't even look old enough to have
an eighteen year old, but you said eighteen. I was like,
what the hell? But like, is that crazy? Like you're like,
I still do you still see the baby?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Oh? It's crazy. It's devastating. He's going to college next year.
You know, I'm going to need some heavy consoling.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You know, do you only have one?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
I have three? I have eighteen fifteen, and then my
little girl's twelve. Yeah, and they're all amazing kids. And
you know, Wilder, my oldest, is my sensitive one. Like
he same thing with the tags when he was a baby.
He's like, you know, he's got a sensitivity thing. Yeah, yeah,
he's got he's got sort of he's got some health anxiety.
(33:40):
So every five seconds he goes, I need an MRI,
like I need a cat scan. I'm like, Wilder, you don't.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
But you know that's so deeply.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
That's so I know I do too, And and and
my wife Aaron's like, oh, I wonder where that comes from.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Like I know we always do that one's that one's mine.
Oh Like we never never point to like that one's
yours because we don't want them to feel like we're
like judging. But anytime August says anything like I think
we should go to the doctors, I'm like, down's mine.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know it's my son, Wilder. It's
like everything is. And meanwhile, my middle one says nothing
about the way he feels. And then six months later
he's like, yeah, my back's been really killing me for
about six months. I'm like, well, why didn't you fucking
tell me?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah? Classic middle child.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah yeah, But I am and Wilder got that from me.
I am very sensitive, like feeling wise, like I'm very
emotional and you know, feeling other people's feelings. And I
think that's part of what screws me up. Sometimes It's
like sometimes it's just overwhelming energy.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
But it's also a gift, like it allows you to
gauge the temperature of a room, it allows you to
be good at acting, writing, and it's the very thing.
It's like, the thing that makes me so good at
my job could also destroy me. So I've got to
keep it in check.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's so true and you have to sort of change it,
turn it into more of a superpower than than an affliction.
Same with the add you know, Yeah, totally, it can
be a very powerful, beautiful creative Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Of course. Yeah. I think I was going to ask
with your job, like, do you feel like you get
you can lose yourself to the feeling of it, to
the point where you realize you've accidentally, like on purpose,
put yourself in that position for a.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Role or Yes, it's funny. It's a great, great question
because it's something that I wish I could do more of.
So there's you're wrestling. I'm wrestling with two things. Going
back to the sort of the Hoffman situation, to where
I felt stupid, there's a part of me that if
I was to truly let go and immerse myself and
(35:45):
do it poorly even though it was my truth, but
I wasn't good, or at least my perception of myself.
Wasn't that that it wasn't good. Then people would not
like me. People would be like, oh, he's not he's
not What did he fucking do there? So it's it's
it's it's safer for me to play it safe.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Totally.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Yeah, I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't care.
You know, my dad, my whole family are actors, and
my brother and even Kate and cur they don't give
a fuck. It's like this I don't give a fuck attitude,
which is such a nice way to approach it.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Where do you fall in the lineup of the of
your ages?
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I'm the oldest, you're the oldest.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, okay, okay, that to me makes sense because it's
like I feel like you've always lived your life with
an audience. These little kiddos are looking up to you,
even though you guys aren't like very The age differences
aren't crazy, right.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Of my siblings? Yeah no, no, I mean, well, why
my my he's my half so he's ten years but
Kate and I are blood and then I've got half.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Okay, and how how much older are you?
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Thank Kate two and a half years.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah. So it's like it's just enough to where you're like,
I mean two and a half years in grade school
is a lot, because that's like senior and sophomore. Do
you like a freshman or sophomore?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, psycho, Yeah, it's like it's like a
sophomore senior.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah. So at those ages, which is when a lot
of your identity and like the things that you will
carry forever are like being formed as like a person
an individual. It's like you were constantly doing that, almost
like a trailblazer for someone that was younger than you,
that was watching you, and so like to fail would
mean like I'm not giving a good example, and also
(37:29):
like I've got to get it right, but you don't
have anyone to look at that's doing it before you.
And so it's like that fear of like I just
have to get it right and I don't want to
be embarrassed and I want people to think I'm good.
Is like I can't imagine that that doesn't at least
play a little bit of a yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
For sure, one hundred percent. And and just this idea
that you know, going even deeper. Dad left because I
wasn't lovable, which is ridiculous, but as a little as
a five year old, that's what you take it as.
So if I can not rock a boat, if I
can just sort of be cool and have no one
dislike me, then I'm safe. Yeah you know what I mean, Well,
(38:08):
I'm safe.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Do you find that you also are, Like you were
passive as a kid or.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, Yeah, I was. It was it was a little
bit of both. I mean, until Kurt came into my life,
I was very at mama's boy. I was very shy,
and then he brought me to Colorado and sort of
taught me independence, you know, some tough lessons that were
great lessons of just feeling alone and having panic but
understanding like there's no need to because I can get
(38:34):
us home. You know, just just you know, just this
sort of just advocating for myself at a young age,
knowing that I was stronger than I was. You know,
those are the things that he gave me. I was
I was five years six years old, six years old
when he came in, sort of six seven years old
when he sort of became my stepdad.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
That's really beautiful that like you still got that in somebody,
and it was like almost even it's powerful and like
he's not your blood, but he loved you and led
you and treated you like you were so important that
it's like just because you aren't my like blood relative,
like you are important enough for me to care for.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Oh yeah really really yeah, he understood the circumstances as well.
He basically came to us as kids and said, hey,
no matter what happens with me and your mom, because
life is life, who the hell knows, but I will
never leave you. I will always be here for you
whatever happens. But you know, it was at that young
age where he reassured us that there will always be
(39:34):
a man in your life no matter what happens with
me and your mother, right, yeah, And we believed him,
you know, and yeah, you know, so far, so good man.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
I think that, like I don't really give credit to
how because I've it's not a reality for me to
like have a older figures except my brothers, to really
look up to.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
That.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
I forget how important it is, you know, like this
like longing in you to have that. I forget that.
It's like, yeah, no, wonder you know, like you know
what I mean, Like I just hearing this, I actually
can't fathom it. I can't fathom that experience that you've
had with Kirk, and so yeah, I think it's really
sobering for me to hear that, because it's like, just
(40:18):
be a little easier on yourself. It's all good, Like
it's all good, buddy, Like you're figuring it out and
you're doing a great job because you're doing this from scratch,
and so it's really helpful.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
This is what I was saying before. It's like, it's
so interesting. The human condition is so interesting perspective. I
just love it. It just gets me going back to your life,
like how did you How did you make this your life?
(40:52):
You know, I mean when did you get on social media?
At what point did you realize, Wow, you know I
have I'm amassing followers and I'm actually affecting people. I'm
touching people here, and I'm assuming that was the that
was the point where you said, oh, wow, I can
make some sort of a difference here and and really
ignite my platforms.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah. To be honest, it was not an intentional decision
until it was. We were way far into it. So
I was running a I created like a web development company,
and I was a coder and a designer, and that
was like what I was really good at and I
loved it, and I was doing that from home when
COVID was happening, and but I was also going through
(41:35):
lots of really dark like when I had when I
was in postpartum, like I had, I was hit with
some of the darkest light thoughts, depression like it was
just so it was so long, like a year. It
was so bad, and I was still act. You know,
no one would have known, which is like crazy that
you can just hide that. And I because I just
(41:57):
felt like if I said anything, like someone was going
to like take my son and I'll like, I'm okay.
But just like I've never it was unlike any kind
of depression I'd ever experienced. And so I remembered trying
to reconnect with myself, and I like, you, I've always
been a journaler, so I was like I would be
writing these things, and I was like, I have got
to remember who I was before I had this baby,
(42:18):
because if I don't, I don't think I'm gonna make it.
Because it felt like my whole life just restarted and
my brain was wiped. And I was like, we've got
to reconnect, We've got to build that bridge back to
who you were, because that's really important. She's really important
and we can't lose her. And so I started telling
stories about my life, like really simple little stories, and
(42:40):
it was just the perfect combination of like people being
home and on their phones, me know, being a writer,
but never like like then I was like performing the stories.
But then I was like I was an editor, so
I was editing, like animating these stories. And then I'm
also like I don't really have a good awareness of
(43:00):
what you should and shouldn't say, so I was saying
things that other people were like, oh, she's just like
saying things other people like keep quiet. But in my mind,
I was like, this isn't revolutionary. I'm just letting people
know I had a panic attack yesterday, Like I don't.
That doesn't feel like I feel like you're so brave.
It's like, oh, should I have not said? That's when
I'm like, did I say something I shouldn't have said?
You know, when people are like commenting on that. And
(43:21):
so the perfect combination of all of that just connected
with people and it started growing very quickly, like very rapidly,
And never did I think this was going to be
like a full time job, because that at that time,
would be so irresponsible to like, I just had a baby,
I have a full company I've built from the ground
up that's thriving. It's like, yeah, I'll just throw it
(43:43):
all away and make some videos on the internet. It
was like that so silly to me in my mind. Yeah,
And then once it got to the point where I
was having to choose between spending my time working at
my web dev company or making videos and then seeing
how much like you could make if you just actually
like focused on it, I was like it now would
(44:05):
be irresponsible of me to know that and still choose this.
So I made the transition, and that's kind of been
my life since. But I've always treated it as like
this is still the thing I'm doing to reconnect with myself.
I'm still writing, I'm still remembering who I was and
who I am, And honestly, people in the Internet have
watched me become more of myself than I ever have been.
(44:28):
Like this last year has been so transformative for me,
like feeling like I'm learning parts of myself in front
of millions of people, and finally, like like what you
said of feeling embarrassed, I have a lot of those
in different fonts and flavors of my life. It's not
so much giving all. It's people have this idea of
who I am and in their head as a person,
(44:50):
and if I sway from that at all, they're going
to be like, why are you tranks hard? Or like,
you know, like I've never been very girly until because
I had three older brothers, So I'm learning how to
like feel more feminine. But am I doing this because
I feel like I should or because I want to?
And so like just doing all of that, And it's
just being open about things like that with people. It
(45:14):
they see themselves in it and they just want to
join in. And that's kind of how well.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
To help your own mentality, your own mental states, your
own anxieties and depressions and all of this, to expose
yourself and get out there.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
It made it worse, Yeah, did made it worse? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, So you were almost sacrificing yourself a little bit
for this endeavor.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
I did it with the understanding that I would feel
that way any with any career change I was making
when I didn't set out to make it. So I
had to really pick apart what I was feeling and understand.
And that's why I waited so long to transition as well,
because I knew I like, I couldn't really once I
(45:52):
got to a certain point, I can't really go back,
like with who I am. It's like I'm always going
to run into people that know me and it's going
to change that of my life forever, no matter what,
even if it stopped right now. And so I was like,
I'm not going to let go until I'm very sure
this is what I want. And so I also knew
there's going to be a transition period where this is
(46:13):
going to feel really scary. And of course millions of
people like I say this a lot, but the human
brain is like not built to be famous. Human heart,
It's not You're not meant to know this much information
about you and opinions and be in front of that
many people and be celebrated when this person doesn't know
who you are. It's like, that's a very weird thing
for the human heart to experience. And so yeah, I
(46:36):
had to believe that I'm either going to get used
to this and enjoy it or I'm not, and I'm
going to let it go because I will not let
it take me out.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
And then you eventually figure transitioned into that place of
acceptance and enjoy it. I mean, yeah, there's got to
be some enjoyment to it. Oh, I love it. Now
you're making money, which we all have to do, but
you're also doing it in a way that you know
you're helping people and to be crazy.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
For me, I'm a professional creative.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
It's like pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
It's the actual dream and I don't niche down. I
make whatever I want.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Are you? Are you inspired? Meaning like are your Is
your social media like an inspired by or is it
a job in the sense that I have to put
stuff out? I have to be part of an algorithm.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
You know that I have literally never treated it that way.
I post when I want to. Yeah, I personally thrive
on structure, and so I like to have a schedule.
I don't plan posts out, but like, yeah, I think
for me, the open endedness of like coming because this
is my office. So I live in our house and
(47:39):
then I have this house that is like a studio
in different rooms, and so to walk in and just
be like what am I gonna do today? That I
would never that would be so overwhelming to me.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yeah, I feel that yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
So I have to have like a structure of like
today's the day I film like today, and then today's
the day I edit, Today's the day I write. This
is a music day if I want to do it,
and I can shift it around, but having that structure helps.
But yeah, it's I genuinely, I'm just making content on
what I'm currently hyper fixated on. And so right now
it's the book because it kind of has to be.
(48:12):
But like of other times, I'm super into like ear
harmony stimming, like I want to hear the dissonance and
like resonance between two notes, so I build like harmony
building and live looping and and then other times I'm
super into a reality TV show, so I make my
whole feed if I was a bachelor on the contestant
on the Bachelor and that green screen. Myself really poorly
(48:34):
into these things, and I'm just asking people questions and
having I'm just taking things I love and letting people
into it. It's really fun.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Well, let's get into the book now that you brought
it up. Talk about the book. Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
This is my book. I wrote it.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
It's my face, it's your face. You wrote it all
by yourself.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Oh, by myself, illustrate it. Here's the end pages. I
like to show people it's my desk, and yeah, it's
it's short stories. It's not a memoir. It's like it's
Some are poems, like allegorical poems that are based on
true stories. Some are straightforward narrative, but it's like, you know,
composites of people, so I don't get sued all that, like,
(49:13):
but like, yeah, it's it's so it's it's one of
the coolest creative things I've ever made. I'm so proud
of it. It was it took so long, but when
I read them the stories back, like it's it's just
so rich. The writing is so fun. It's such a
fun read. But it's also like got so much heart
in it because it's like funny. But then you just
(49:35):
kind of like the content I make on the Internet,
it's like it'll swoop down into like but also everything's
gonna be okay and like and you're okay, you know,
and I like I like doing that. I like just
I like adding that into everything I do because a
lot of what I'm making has come from a memory
that I have felt, processed and then learned from and
(49:56):
so like, I like to be able to give that
to somebody as well and everything that I make. So
getting to pepper that through my books been really.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Have you did you create a structure for the book
before you started or was it kind of like, okay,
page one.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Well it's it's I mean, I wrote this book twenty
times over in different ways, and so yeah, Like I
essentially was like, I don't know where to start because
I didn't it's not chronological. I didn't want it to
be like this is a memoir, so I just started
writing and then and then I would get inspired by
what I was writing. Have you ever read the book
Bird by Bird by An LaMotte.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
No, I'm on such a reading kick right now. It's insane.
I can't stop reading, Oliver, you have I read forty
books this year so far. I'm like, yeah, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
You have to Yeah, bird by Bird and okay. So
I was reading that at the time and it really
helped me push through a lot of my fear. Essentially,
the idea is like, if you're a writer, then you
should write, and doesn't matter if it's good or bad,
you should be writing.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
God, I need to read it because this is what
I'm best at. I won, I wont awards as a
kid for writing I wrote. I wrote a short story
called Elevators to the Moon in fourth grade that it
was so I have it and I i'm reading it.
I read it back, I'm like, this is fucking good.
And I won like the Amates International Award, and I
got my first pay check and it's frame. It's what
I love to do. But my add or whatever it is,
(51:14):
I get so bound up in the enormity of it
that I I'm like, ah, fuck this, I can't.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
You have to she makes it so I just I
really as it. The longer I've been talking to you,
the more I'm like, I think you would love that book.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Okay, I'm going to get it.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
But so so a lot of the process happened because
I was reading that, and then I was trying to
put this together and I had I think I just
said this. Someone else can't remember, but I was saying.
I flew to New York and I was in a
hotel room for a week to write the book. I
was like, I'm not leaving this hotel room until the
book is done. And I felt like I was metaphorically
like banging my head against a wall. Third day in,
(51:53):
I hadn't written anything, and I was like, I am
such a failure. And now I've wasted money on a
hotel room for a week and this really nice place.
And I remembered sitting there in the my like flannel
was it was hanging in the closet, and I was like,
I wonder if this flannel thinks I'm such an idiot
that like it's just watching me waste time. And then
I saw myself like pacing back and forth from the
(52:14):
point of view through the slats of this flannel in
the closet, and I was like, I'm just going to
write a story about how this how upset this flannel
is that I took it all the way to New
York and it didn't It didn't even get used because
I didn't write it. And then that ended up changing
the trajectory of the whole book because I included that
was the idea. I changed it to make it fit
what I was doing. But that same idea of like
(52:36):
a story from the perspective of a shirt, it's a
very fun bote.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Well, I can't wait. I gotta get it. I got
to read your book This was so much fun talking
to you. I could talk. Thank you so much much
much longer.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Okay, great, well I'll talk talk to bye bye.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Oh man. That time went fast, fast, fast, I was
That felt like one of the fastest hours I've had
in a long time. Yeah, I keep going. I could
keep going with her. It's just fascinating stuff. Thank you, Elise.
That was fucking awesome, really cool. I can't wait to
read your book. Everyone should pick up that book. By
the way, everyone should pick up that book. It's called
(53:14):
That's a Great Question I'd love to tell you by
Elie Myers. And it's available now, so go check it out,
all right, Oliver Hudson gone,
Hosts And Creators
Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
Popular Podcasts
Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio
Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.