May 15, 2025 • 38 mins
Oliver reels in his favorite pastime with professional fisherwoman, Sena Wheeler.
Talk about being a catch, Sena is also an albacore expert and if you love sushi, you’re gonna want to tune-in for her tuna tutorial!
Plus, don’t get salty, find out how fishermen are saving the species in a conservation conversation that will have you falling hook, line, and sinker!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling. Railvalry, No, no, sibling, don't do that with
your mouth.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Revelry.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's good. It's Oliver Hudson. The Hudson Express. I've been
calling myself the Hudson Express for a long time. Is
this sort of false bravado really a mask my deep
(00:55):
insecurities about who I am? But the Hudson Express is
a type of a train, and you can either jump
on board or not. It does make stops, not many,
and you don't know where the stops are going to be,
(01:16):
so when you do get off the Hudson Express, you
might not know where the hell you are. So you
could stay on and just go with wherever it goes,
or you can get off. It's a whole thing. I
actually named my boat the Hudson Express. My wife hates it,
(01:36):
but yeah, then the boats, you know, the seget This
whole segue just works because my boat is the Hudson
Express and there's someone in the waiting room now it's
very different, but it's very me. Her name is Sena Wheeler,
and she catches fish for a living. And I just
(02:01):
she sent me some halibit that I just had. I
know this sounds crazy, but this is so personal to me,
and I'm excited to have her on to talk about
all of this. Let's just bring her on. Let's let's
bring on. Hey, Hello, how are you good? Are you?
I'm good, I'm very good. Where are you?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I am in Washington State. We live in Washington and
fishing Alaska. Okay, and my husband just left for Alaska this.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Morning, diddy, yep.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Okay, Okay. There's so many things. First of all, how
did this happen?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
You know, the fishing thing?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
No? No, no, Like, how are you on this show
right now? You know what I'm saying, Like, how did
Because just I'm a huge fisherman. I mean, it's my passion.
I have a parker. I catch big blue fin tuna.
I've been doing since I was a kid. I am
an obsessive fisherman.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
You know that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, And I think I get this call that you know,
you guys wanted to come on the show, and I
was like, oh my god, hell yeah of course, And
I'm curious, like, do you do you have any idea
how this happened?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I was going to ask you how this happened, because
I'm just as amazed.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, who gives a ship because it's this is so fun.
I mean, I just got your box of fish. We
got some black cob, we got halibit, we got some
I think sake.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, And I made the halibit last night.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Oh how was it?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It was amazing And I'm not just saying that awesome,
but it was so good and so fresh, and my
kids loved it. And I did that parmesan sort of
parmesan crusted.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But oh the recipe, that was the recipe.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, because I do. I do. I love to cook fish.
I have I have tragger, I have two trigger grills.
I've got I mean, I'm a smoker. I've got all
kinds of shit. I can my tuna, you know I.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah. Do you have the blackstone grill?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
No, that's as I've got the tragger, which I love
and I do a lot of fish in the trager,
but the blackstone is like solid. Yeah, it's great for
fish and Veggie's this for searing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
No, I know it's amazing. So I don't have that,
but I have the tragger version of the blackstone, yes,
and which is that you know, cast iron, that cast
iron skillet, which is great for it, you know, but
cooked last night, it was so fresh and so good
and I love that you the skin on. You know.
(04:35):
I'm just seeing those big Pacific halibit awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I'm sorry you tried it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, yeah, So my biggest halibit is one like one
hundred and twenty eight. I got it elfin Cove. That's
where I fished. Oh okay, yeah, of course we catch
it done of California halibit down here, and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Those would be much smaller.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh yeah, I think the record is in the fifties.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You know, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Up in Alaska, they used to call them barn doors
because they'd be like pulling up a barn door out
of the water. And I mean they're not as big
as they used to be, but when I was growing
up by fish with my dad out there, and I
mean I had to clean them out and I'd be
crawling inside. You lift it up and you're in the
fish to gut it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Crazy. No, I know you've seen some of those big
four hundred pounders you know that were just unreal. Mine
was one twenty eight and I was it was I
did not expect they sawed off four ten shotgun to
come out of the guy's waistband.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Because you don't want to. You don't want to, you
don't want to flopping around destroy your boat.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Why do you think the fish have gotten smaller just
overfishing or.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, the the big ones are the mothers.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So the big ones.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Last, they're they're alive a really long time and they
have a lifespan that's really long. I mean it can
be like one hundred years and so yeah really I
mean maybe not one hundred, but maybe sixty at least.
I mean very long time for I know.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Those golden eye live forever. That's why there's a limit
of wont basically yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Right and so but really, so those halibate take a
long time. We have a lot of halib it but
they're smaller now. But those really big ones aren't the
best eating and those are the ones that can have
the high mercury because of the lifespan and how much
they've been eating and accumulating. So the big ones are cool,
(06:34):
but they're not the best eating it for things like that.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, and what is that? What is that perfect eater
size for the Pacific halibis.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
We choose a smaller fish.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
So I think that my husband is he does the
processing and so he knows exactly. I think he would
call it a twenty thirty So about twenty to thirty
pounds would be really nice size for eating.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And it's gonna it's going to.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Be better flesh, better quality.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And then it's lower in mercury too, which is really nice.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah. Yeah, And where are you guys? Where do you
fish out of?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So we fish out of Alaska, Yeah, and the halibit
is out of well, I would I would say kind
of all over southeast up north, and we fish out
of Cordova, Alaska. And so the the longlining is all
about permitting and it's permitted per section and then we
(07:29):
fish Copper River salmon. So our facility is right there
in Cordova, Alaska where the Copper River's caught, and we
bring the the halib, black coot in there too.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And a black cod. At least here it's the deep
water right really deep, it's like two thousand feet.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Ali and black cot are actually both really deep so
you long line for both. So it's a bigger boat,
you're gonna long line. It's going to be miles deep,
and they like they just like slightly different areas, like
the black cot like these kind of rock structures. They're
going to be around those kind of rock areas and
just right before the gulf, so basically right before.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
The shelf just drops off.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But it's they're really deep and they like really cold water.
Your black cot in California, California black cot is might
be a little more mushy, and the Alaskan black cot
is is the best.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Is that like when we're eating black cod at sushi
or Japanese restaurants, are we eating that more northern black cod?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, it's also called sablefish.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
It's a really hard one because it has a lot
of names and it has been I think it's a
detriment to the fish because it's honestly one of my
favorite fish.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Is so good.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
It's called when we catch it, it's called black cot
on our fish ticket. When we sell it, we have
to sell it as sablefish, and a lot of people
call it butterfish also and so and you can hatch
it all the way from like near Hawaii, up the
Califounlifornia coast and up in Alaska. But it's gonna be
different qualities. So the colder water is gonna be better,
(09:09):
and most of it, like ninety percent of the black
cod goes to Japan, so it is used for sushi
and it's very high quality.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, so how do you how do you longline those
sable fish?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
It's actually done really similar to halibit. They actually use
the same gear. Yeah, it's a it's a hook. They
on a long line. It's the long line is literally mile,
you know, a mile long on the bottom of the ocean,
and every about three feet is a lanyard. So it's
gonna be about eighteen inches and then there's gonna be
a hook on it. So halibut hook is is a
(09:43):
bit bigger and black cod hooks a little bit smaller.
And the bait the fishermen kind of have their favorites.
They use herring or squid and just got a little bait,
sits down there for soaks for a little bit and
they pull back up.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
How how long is you so for those for the
sable fish.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You know, it would be like six hours, maybe twelve,
but it's going to depend on the area and the
fishermen on how long they like to soak it and
kind of some area knowledge that.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Kind of thuff.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah yeah. And then how far how many hooks
do you put on that long line, because aren't those
fish closer to the bottom, they're not too high up
in the water column, correct.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, this long line has weight, so it's on the
bottom of the ocean, and it's going to be like
thirty thousand hooks.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, so this is a this is a These boats,
long line boats are going to be out a lot deeper.
Their bigger boats is like a five man boat, like
our longline boat was like and our family was seventy
three feet wooden boat.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That would be a pretty typical long line boat.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
But they have hydraulics to lift that long line, of course, no.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Of course. I mean, yeah, we have electric reels out
of here, but I think you can need more than that, right, Yeah, yeah,
that's interesting though. Those halibate are that deep as well. Well.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
My dad started fishing with my grandfather. They did all
halib it, these Norwegian guys. It was all Norwegian boats
and they did all halib it. That's all they were
interested in and in the eighties. My dad was one
of the first guys that was like, hey, we should
try this new thing black cod, and it's big. It's
popular in the Japanese, you know, they want pay for it,
and so they kind of started longlining. But it's the
(11:35):
same gear which is really big. So a lot of
boats now longliners will do halibu and black cod because
it's they can go back and forth. Yeah, it might
even be that they're using the same hook size these days,
so they get it's really about where they place the gear.
And what's crazy is when they're halibut fishing, they get
all halib it. Wow, And when they're black cod fishing,
(11:56):
they get all black cod. And it's just on where
they put the gear and how the depth and the knowledge.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting because when you're long lining for halibit,
you know, I would think because you have a weight,
right that is at the bottom of the line, I
would assume, and then the hooks are baited up. So
it's like, that's what I'm saying, because halibit are in them,
are in the mud or in the sand, right, Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You've got like a weight with the booy to mark
where it's at and then the line is along the
bottom of the ocean, and then another weight and then
another booy and so you yeah, from so there's a
one booy and then like a mile of long that's
why they call it a long line, and then another booy.
(12:43):
They'll they'll put the whole thing in lay a couple
down and then go back and pick up the first
by finding the booy's. But the the hooks itself are
laying along the bottom of the ocean.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Got it, got it? Got it? Then is it weighted
in the middle at all to keep that keep that
line down?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
The line itself is weighted, Yeah, waited line?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Got it? This is like fascinating for me.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I used to go out with my dad when I
was in high school, so in the summertimes, and this
is you know, way you know, way back.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I'm like remembering everything.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
No, I know, And so those alibates are in that
kind of deep water. But then they come into spawn, right,
I mean, is that what the fish that I'm catching
that recreational fishermen are catching are obviously not five thousand
feet deep. I mean you're fishing, you know, sometimes in
the hundreds, but you can even fish up into the
eighties and seventies feet of water, so the halibis just
(13:38):
exists throughout the water column.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I guess yeah, that's a really good question because you know,
like commercial fishing, well, for one thing, we have to
be out there's zones in areas and so, but we
would always be out way deep. The salmon you catch
when it spawns. So salmon is all about the spawning,
like the Copper River salmon the First River.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
The timing on catching.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Salmon is all about the salmon's timing when it's spawning
coming back.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
To the river.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
But for halim in black cod, it's not about the spawning,
and so they're not migrating according to their spawn and
you can fish for them from spring to fall.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Do you have kids?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Three kids?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
How old are the kids?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
They are thirteen, sixteen and nineteen.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Now if you go on our website, you will think
they're little because I.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Have pictures that are too cute to put down.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I get it, I get it. Are they do? They
want to get into the business.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
They've been on the boat.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So because when we're salmon fishing, my husband does longlining also,
and that's no place for kids.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
But for salmon fishing. You're on a small boat.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
It's like a thirty two foot boat and it's usually
one or one guy or maybe one guy in a decan.
So we've always brought the kids out and so they've
fished every summer with dad and they know kind of
they know enough to know. I don't know if any
of them are planning on that as their career, but
our son is, he'll fish. He's in college now and
(15:18):
he'll continue to fish in the summers to earn money
for college at least.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
No, But it's interesting because it seems like it's been
a family business, right for sure. Yeah, and so who's
taking it over? Yeah, you know what I mean, Like,
I know, you want your kids to do what they
want to do, obviously I have three of them myself.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
At the same time, there's a bit of a legacy
that's happening here, you know, and that someone's got to
do it.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's interesting to see and they've all you know, I
feel like we've introduced them and they've seen the real
deal and if they choose it, then they're choosing it
for you know, with blinders open. Yeah, But like I say,
our son comes up every year and it's more about
earning some money and the time frame that works. It's
(16:01):
our youngest when we've been out on the boat. You know,
you can you can do the controls out on the
deck and you're out just boom boom, you're standing up
spray and all of that. And when our youngest was
about five, she'd be out there with dad and he
looked down at her and he sees her smile and
he's like, oh, this is gonna be our fisherman.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I know. It's like my daughter, she's the only one
wants to go out with me on my boat and fish.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, our middle it was like, I'll be the cook,
right sat.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And then the salmon, how how do you what's the
process of catching the salmon?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So we gillnet for the salmon, and it's super regulated
in terms of everything from the size of the boat
has to be under thirty two feet, their gill netters
off the their bow pickers, so the gill net goes
off the bow, and then the size of the net,
size of the holes. Everything is really tightly regulated. But
the net goes off the bow. And for salmon, you know,
(17:05):
you think of a river. You're doing it when they're spawning.
But the Copper River is like three hundred miles the
delta is three hundred miles wide, so it's huge, and
it's full of sandbars that move every year, and so
when they fish, you're out on this kind of like
in the beginning of the season, especially for the opener,
(17:27):
you'll be throwing your booy right at the surf and
then going off of the beach. And at different times
they're at different depths, so they might be out further,
but you're you're just you throw the buoy and you've
got a net coming off the bow and you're just reversing,
backing up and letting the net out. And so you're
gonna lay there with the net kind of making sure
(17:48):
it's straight and you know, tugging on it or whatnot,
for however long. Like for the opener, it's like however
long they can stand it, right, they got they gotta
check the net and see. Then you start pulling it
in and you're hand picking every fish. You are hand picking,
hand picking every fish. And especially for Copper River, it's
(18:09):
a slower fishery. It's not as the fish aren't coming
in as fast and they're highly valued and so that
quality is super key. So you have time to hand
bleed high pressure bleed, get them on ice right away.
So it's all about that time, temperature and that handling.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's interesting because I don't think anyone knows what goes
into the processing of the fish right from when that
fish hits the boat, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And that matters a lot. But they're doing on the boat,
you know, not flopping on the deck, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, and then you know the bleeding of the fish.
You know, this is what we do with the tuna
as well, you know, and then there's it's like hot
sheet something where you're putting the needle into the vertebrae.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Right, that's mostly for tuna. You know, I studied tuna
and I got my master's degree. I studied West coast
albuquartuna and on board handling techniques in correlation with then
we did sensory and so it was like all that stuff,
you know, exactly what you're doing on board, and then
doing sensory for okay, how does this affect the flavor?
How does this affect the flavor? And for tuna, they
(19:18):
do kind of.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
The spike, they spike its head, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah, they don't do that for salmon, but they'll pluck
a gill and we'll put it in a high pressure
bleed system with basically like hose water.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Seawater flowing through it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah. Now this is a Japanese technique because it's not
about a spike in the brain. There is as it's
basically the vertebrae, there's the nerve endings. And you take
this needle and you put it up through the back
of the halibit and you see the halibit just quiver
and then die. What it does is, you know, when
(19:54):
they're obviously hooked or gaffed or dying, they get rigid
and they're going through stress. But this thing literally just
shuts them down. So it just preserves that meat.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Lactic acid, not building up that muscle heat.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah yeah, well, okay, wait, I got to talk to
you about the albacore because the fact that you've studied
it is so cool. You know, in southern California, I
began fishing twenty plus years ago, and when we went
out out of San Diego or we went out into
our bit or whatever it was there was, it was
all albacore. You had mixed in blue fin. The migration
patterns were such that they were down here, water temp bait,
(20:30):
you know, a lot of anchovy, all that, and then
twenty years ago, twenty years ago whatever, they just disappeared.
It's almost like they took a more northern or west north,
the northerly route, right, and then all of a sudden,
you know, water temperatures changed here. We started to get
yellow fintuna, we got dorado, and now the big blue
(20:53):
fintuna have moved in for the last almost ten years, right,
And everyone is sort of waiting for this patterned, for
this to change, and everyone has these predictions, but no
one knows, right. And I'm sure you don't know, no,
but you have actually had study in this, like is
there any rhyme or reason, like you know when these
(21:13):
fish will come back into SoCal or when their patterns
will change off?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I think.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I mean, for my studies, I was studying Omega three's
and onboard handling techniques. But I think just in terms
of fish, same things things are happening with the crab too.
I think personally it's all about water temperatures and those
fish are going to move for the water temps and
so I was studying west coast to albu Quartuna off
of organ for my masters and so at that time,
(21:41):
I mean, Oregon has a really huge Albuquortuna industry, and
so it makes sense to me that those fish are moving.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Up to colder water.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, And unfortunately I don't see that reversing. I mean,
I loved I would love to see the temps down.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
But well, that's what I'll talk to you about a
little bit. Is just conservation, you know, regulations, you know,
just sort of you know, government and how that's affected
your industry and sort of where you stand on it
as far as boots on the ground climate change, you
(22:21):
know what I mean. Not scientists who are you know,
obviously have their predictions are what they are and their
science behind it. But someone who's lived in this world
and what you've experienced.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, for a fishing family like we are, multi generational
fishing family, I think that a lot of people, I mean,
first off, the relationship is kind of misunderstood a little
bit because people would kind of assume that Okay, well,
you're a commercial fisherman. You're trying to catch as much
fish as you can every time you go out but
as a multi generational fishing family, which most of the
(22:54):
industry is, and this is you know, us domestic fishing
industry is we want to keep fishing for lifetimes and
we want our kids to have that opportunity to for
that lifestyle. And so most fishermen are very conservation minded.
They want to come back and be able to continue
their livelihoods. So that's just one main misconception is about
(23:16):
commercial fishing in general, but especially for our domestic fishing families.
So fishermen are always watching and you know what's happening,
and it's very cyclical. It's a really hard thing because
if you think of farmers, I mean they can plant
their fields, they can watch the crops grow, they know
what's going to happen if it rains or freezes. You know,
they see what's happening. But for fishing, it's just like
(23:38):
every year is like, oh, man, I hope there's all
I hope they come back. You know, there's a lot
of unknowns, there's a lot of stuff riding on it.
But for all of our fishing is in the state
of Alaska. And I can say that the state of
Alaska has been sustainably minded for the longest time. It's
in their state constitution. I mean, it's really big deal.
(24:00):
Of course, they've known forever that fishing is their industry,
so they've done it right, which is really huge. So
these big rivers in Alaska, they've been kind of monitoring
the runs and doing these science based you know, database
catches for a really long time. So like for Copper River,
(24:22):
there's it opens in May, it's coming up. We're opening
actually a week later this year for sustainability measures to
make sure, you know, more fish get up the river.
But even once we start fishing, it only opens if
they've caught, if they have their you know, million pounds
through the sonars up river. And then at that you
were only fishing twice a week for starts with twelve
(24:45):
hour openers, and each opener is just they open each
opener it's either on Monday or Thursday only, and even
those only open if enough fish have come up through
the river at that time, so they use fish counters.
So those sustainability practices are huge. And it's not like, yeah,
guys don't fish right now. I mean it is like
(25:08):
there are zero nets in the water unless it's open
for fishing, and it's highly highly regulated, so that's huge.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
We want the regulations.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
You know, there's been times with halibate and black cod
that's federally regulated, and so it can be a little
bit slower like samine is real time boots on the ground.
We're monitoring today's numbers for tomorrow's opener. Yeah, and halibate
and black cod is federally regulated, and they're looking at
like last year's catch and all the numbers are in
(25:41):
and the fisher are going, hey, these quotas need to
shrink because it's just a pie for that everybody has
the slice of the pie, how much quota they have
to catch. So it's real easy federally for them to go,
we're just shrinking the pie this year based on catch
or expanding the pie.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And so it's.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And then every fishermen their slice is expanded or reduced.
So it's very easy for them to regulate that year's catch.
But sometimes it feels like it's a couple of years late.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Got it based on the data. That's interesting and the
federal regulators do they for the most part, they restrict
the quota too much or is it too generous?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Well, like for the black cord you know, like if
the black cord numbers feel like they're going down, the
fishermen are going, hey, you need to reduce, you need
to reduce, and then like it feels like there's a
leg and then.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
They'll reduce a whole bunch.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It's it's just interesting, you know, on that federal level,
it's just harder to have their their you know, thumb
on the dial exactly, and so the jumps can be
a little bit more like.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Why can't that be state regulated as well?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Why is that federal waters?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Because wat or so got it? Okay, Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, but at least it's the mechanisms are there and
it's able to be regulated and is being looked at
every year.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
So all we need to do is be.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Get better at looking at the data and better at analyzing.
And they have you know, guys on the boat monitoring
for longlining and things like that, observers and things like that.
So there's a lot of really good things in place,
which is good.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah. No, I think that, I think you're right. I
think there's a major misconception that fishermen, commercial and even
recreational fishermen are all for just killing things. I mean,
we are the most conservative when it comes to catch.
You know, so when I post pictures of my big
tuna or something online because I have a million followers
(27:53):
on Instagram, I know that I'm going to get the
idiots who are going to say so I will post
saying before you, you fucking assholes, say anything. Fishermen are
the most are the biggest conservationists that you can ask for.
So I don't want to hear any of your bullshit.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Absolutely, And I mean I've got okay, I mean, don't
get me on my soapbox. But you know I get
people too, and they're like, you know, the oceans are dying.
We need to stop eating fish like tomorrow, you know.
And I'm going, hey, if we stopped eating fish tomorrow,
I mean, for one thing, these commercial runs like Copper
River Salmon would actually over, you know, too many fish
(28:34):
would return, and it would foul the river for generations
because it would be too acidic if all these fish
returned at once, because we're kind of built into the
system because we've been doing this for hundreds of years,
and so for one, it would totally foul the rivers.
But for two, and this is something people don't think
about you know, thinking of Alaska Copper River salmon, the
(28:56):
most valuable salmon in the world. The that river is pristine.
There's no deforestation, there's no mining near it, there's no nothing.
And if we didn't, if it wasn't the most valuable
fish you know, on the planet, who would stop the
(29:17):
miners and the deforestation. I mean it wouldn't be pure
and pristine because it wouldn't have value. So valuing these fish,
you know, fishing, you know, people that eat the fish
and pay for it and invest in this fish. They're
investing in this whole industry that is keeping these rivers
(29:38):
clean and pristine. I mean there's you know it's political,
but this whole there's a pebble mind trying to be
put in.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Up in Crystol Bay.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah. I know about that. I have a friend who's
been all about that. Yeah, pebble mind thing. Yeah, he
made a documentary about it.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Actually, oh yeah, and they and they did it, and
you know, so the whole thing is like this pebble mind.
They want to put it at the headwaters of the
biggest you know, wild salmon run on the planet. Well,
who's against it? It's the fishermen, of course, but the
whole fishing industry is keeping these you know, rivers clean
and pristine for the salmon.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
So that's huge.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
So wait, why are Copper River salmon like the most
valuable fish salmon?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
So they have the highest omega threes. And for fish,
a lot like like beef, you know, beef is Grade
A or whatever prime because it has more fat. And
for fish, I mean there's there's you know, five species
of salmon and then they're which are slightly different, and
then they're slightly different from the river they're caught in.
It's like the mare woah, like the terroa of wine,
(30:52):
the mariua the fish. So every river is going to
have slightly different flavored fish. But the Copper River has
the highest mega threes. So they think that's because it's
really it's really cold, it's really steep, and it's really arduous,
and so the fish pack on moral mega threes.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
But it makes them taste better too.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
And for fish, the fat is you know, good fat.
It makes it taste good, but it's also healthy for you,
so you get you know, all the benefits.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
My god, I can't wait. I did the hell of it,
but I can't wait. I'm excited. Yeah. And these are
these stalk are from last last year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So we're just about to open for this year. So
we we freeze, We vacuum seal and freeze so they
last the whole year, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
But you really got to try it. When it opens
up in mad I.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Will be hitting you up because hold on, you talk
about the business, talk about you know, the ship. I
want to you know, let's let's sell this, okay.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
So basically, I mean, we've been fishing for generations.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I have a master's degree in handling.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
My husband is a fisherman, and I'm telling him, you know,
you need to handle your fish like this, and you
need to do that and so and he's catching Copper
River Soaki Copper River King, perfect handling. And so basically
we're like, we have we catch the best fish on
the planet. Our freezer at home is filled with the
best fish. Our kids get to eat this best fish,
(32:17):
and you know, it would be nice of us to share.
So that's the basis for our whole business is that
we catch it the very best. Now we have our
own custom processes, so we handle it ourselves and we
custom cut freeze, vacuum, seal, and then we ship to
your door. And so this is for people that are
interested in they want what we have the very best
(32:41):
fish on the planet at their door. And and you know,
not everybody has that available. I mean very few people do.
Very few people can find it locally. So it's a
huge deal to be able to get this. I'll fly
up and I'll go fish with Rich on the opener
and then we'll have a wait list for people wanting
the Copper River King and soak and we'll ship right
(33:02):
to the door.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Oh so you got Copper River King too. Oh yeah,
that must be amazed. Oh it's amazing, wow, because those
kings are real fatty, right, I.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Mean really fatty. They're thick.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
The fat is just like what I mean, it's just
it's like buttery, I mean melt in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, Oh my god, yeah, Jesus. Okay, So name of
the company, How are we getting a hold of you?
How are people going about the process of buying fish
from you?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So go to senesc dot com, s e n A
s e A dot com. Check out our website. We
have a pre order going for the Copper River King
and sake. But jump on our email list, because that's
where I'm going to tell everybody what's in season, what's happening,
how to cook it. I mean, just tons of information.
And once you're on there, you'll be taken care of.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And do you have an Instagram account?
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Instagram is seen as see underscore spacey things, seafoods.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Okay, we'll be.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Posting the openers a couple of weeks. I'll be up
there with my husband, will be posting lots of pictures
and all that.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, I'm going to post and and and you know,
try to juice you guys up to I like that. Yeah,
And all I ask is that I can I jump
the line. I don't want to wait. Yeah, I don't
want to wait list. I'm gonna jump the line. I
want to jump copper.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Right off the opener.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yes what I want?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Okay, yeah, fair enough?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
And then real quick before I go, the halibit that
I last night was that last year halibit as well?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Last year you.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Kidding, man, Let me just say something, but like I
you know, look, we talked a lot about the actual
intricacies of fishing, which which really you know, gets me
going because it's what I love. Are people going to
listen to this and being like, oh my god, yes
there's interest in that. But what we're here to do
is to promote the brand and eat incredible fish. I
(35:00):
have been eating fish all my life. I catch my
own fish. I vacuum sal my own fish. I have
caught fish in halib that has been shipped, that has
been fresh two weeks prior. I swear to God to you.
When I ate this halibit you almost could just sear it.
And you could have seared halib what was raw in
the middle, and it was you can taste the freshness
(35:22):
after a year, and it was that good. And I'm
not just saying this to pump you up. I'm being honest.
It was unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I mean, really, did you notice the layer, like the
parchment paper we wrap around the fish prior to vacuum ceiling. Yeah,
so it hasn't touched plastic. It's an extra barrier.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Nobody else does that.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
But my dad, who's halibut fisherman all his life, you know,
he's been eating halibt on the boat. The first time
he you know, when we started this whole business. And
of course he's a subscriber and he gets the fish
in the winter and he same thing, and this is
from a Halibut fisherman, and he's like, oh my god,
was that last year's fish?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
That was a it's crazy. It was crazy. I mean
I couldn't even believe it I was eating. I mean,
it was really that good. That's why I was excited
to ask you when that fish was actually caught. I mean,
I can't even imagine the fresh stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Right which we're getting in a couple of weeks. So
but I kind of love that you you know, that's
what we have right now. That's what fishermen eat in
the winter. It's last year's fish frozen and that's the
real deal. But I kind of love that you have
to try that.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
No, me too, me too. I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, last question, gover King.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, so we specialize in frozen that's what we do
when we get to people's door. But for two weeks
when the opener, just to celebrate the opener, and because
we are honestly catching and shipping so fast, we don't
have time.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
To freeze the fish. Ship it fresh for two weeks.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
So got fresh, give me some fresh? Crazy? When does that?
When does that that would be sometime in May.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
So it'll open this year.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
It looks like it's going to be opening the twin second,
a week later than usual, and so we'll be getting
it out right after a Memorial weekend. Unfortunately, not before,
but right after Memorial weekend.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yes, yes, yes, oh yes, awesome, well cool, Thank you
so much. This was really really fun for me and
uh on the fish was incredible and I'm going to
have the sakey tonight. Oh good, So use that recipe
or what should I do?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Just which one did I throw in there?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I don't even remember, you know, you know, I mean,
you know sometimes it's so good, just it's like plain
you know what I mean, like y salt pepper.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, salt pepper, like crispy skin. That's what I would
do with the fresh is like salt pepper, crispy skin
or just like on the barbecue. But I mean, and
this is frozen, so when it's frozen it's sushi quality
also yeah, so I mean, yeah, the the key is
with the really good fish.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I mean, the less you do, the better. It's like
a really good steak.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
No, I know, okay, good, well, thank you so much.
This was awesome, really fun. You and I'm definitely definitely
keeping in touch without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Thank you, all right, thanks. That was a weird one
because it's so on brand with me but off brand
with the show. But it's just like I can, I
can only say that if you've, if you've stuck with
this this episode, get the fish now. To be fair,
(38:28):
I don't know how much it costs. They sent me
a box just to try so I could promote it,
but it's high grade ship and I don't know if
it's expensive or not. I'm sure somewhat. But if you
love fish, I think this is the spot. Anyway, I'm out.
I just did. I feel like I did a commercial
and I'm leaving.
Hi, I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
We wanted to do something that highlighted our.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are
a sibling. Railvalry, No, no, sibling, don't do that with
your mouth.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Revelry.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
That's good. It's Oliver Hudson. The Hudson Express. I've been
calling myself the Hudson Express for a long time. Is
this sort of false bravado really a mask my deep
(00:55):
insecurities about who I am? But the Hudson Express is
a type of a train, and you can either jump
on board or not. It does make stops, not many,
and you don't know where the stops are going to be,
(01:16):
so when you do get off the Hudson Express, you
might not know where the hell you are. So you
could stay on and just go with wherever it goes,
or you can get off. It's a whole thing. I
actually named my boat the Hudson Express. My wife hates it,
(01:36):
but yeah, then the boats, you know, the seget This
whole segue just works because my boat is the Hudson
Express and there's someone in the waiting room now it's
very different, but it's very me. Her name is Sena Wheeler,
and she catches fish for a living. And I just
(02:01):
she sent me some halibit that I just had. I
know this sounds crazy, but this is so personal to me,
and I'm excited to have her on to talk about
all of this. Let's just bring her on. Let's let's
bring on. Hey, Hello, how are you good? Are you?
I'm good, I'm very good. Where are you?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I am in Washington State. We live in Washington and
fishing Alaska. Okay, and my husband just left for Alaska this.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Morning, diddy, yep.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Okay, Okay. There's so many things. First of all, how
did this happen?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
You know, the fishing thing?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
No? No, no, Like, how are you on this show
right now? You know what I'm saying, Like, how did
Because just I'm a huge fisherman. I mean, it's my passion.
I have a parker. I catch big blue fin tuna.
I've been doing since I was a kid. I am
an obsessive fisherman.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
You know that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, And I think I get this call that you know,
you guys wanted to come on the show, and I
was like, oh my god, hell yeah of course, And
I'm curious, like, do you do you have any idea
how this happened?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I was going to ask you how this happened, because
I'm just as amazed.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, who gives a ship because it's this is so fun.
I mean, I just got your box of fish. We
got some black cob, we got halibit, we got some
I think sake.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, And I made the halibit last night.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Oh how was it?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It was amazing And I'm not just saying that awesome,
but it was so good and so fresh, and my
kids loved it. And I did that parmesan sort of
parmesan crusted.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
But oh the recipe, that was the recipe.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, because I do. I do. I love to cook fish.
I have I have tragger, I have two trigger grills.
I've got I mean, I'm a smoker. I've got all
kinds of shit. I can my tuna, you know I.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah. Do you have the blackstone grill?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
No, that's as I've got the tragger, which I love
and I do a lot of fish in the trager,
but the blackstone is like solid. Yeah, it's great for
fish and Veggie's this for searing.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
No, I know it's amazing. So I don't have that,
but I have the tragger version of the blackstone, yes,
and which is that you know, cast iron, that cast
iron skillet, which is great for it, you know, but
cooked last night, it was so fresh and so good
and I love that you the skin on. You know.
(04:35):
I'm just seeing those big Pacific halibit awesome.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I'm sorry you tried it.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, yeah, So my biggest halibit is one like one
hundred and twenty eight. I got it elfin Cove. That's
where I fished. Oh okay, yeah, of course we catch
it done of California halibit down here, and.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Those would be much smaller.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh yeah, I think the record is in the fifties.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You know, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Up in Alaska, they used to call them barn doors
because they'd be like pulling up a barn door out
of the water. And I mean they're not as big
as they used to be, but when I was growing
up by fish with my dad out there, and I
mean I had to clean them out and I'd be
crawling inside. You lift it up and you're in the
fish to gut it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Crazy. No, I know you've seen some of those big
four hundred pounders you know that were just unreal. Mine
was one twenty eight and I was it was I
did not expect they sawed off four ten shotgun to
come out of the guy's waistband.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Because you don't want to. You don't want to, you
don't want to flopping around destroy your boat.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Why do you think the fish have gotten smaller just
overfishing or.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, the the big ones are the mothers.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So the big ones.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Last, they're they're alive a really long time and they
have a lifespan that's really long. I mean it can
be like one hundred years and so yeah really I
mean maybe not one hundred, but maybe sixty at least.
I mean very long time for I know.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Those golden eye live forever. That's why there's a limit
of wont basically yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Right and so but really, so those halibate take a
long time. We have a lot of halib it but
they're smaller now. But those really big ones aren't the
best eating and those are the ones that can have
the high mercury because of the lifespan and how much
they've been eating and accumulating. So the big ones are cool,
(06:34):
but they're not the best eating it for things like that.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, and what is that? What is that perfect eater
size for the Pacific halibis.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
We choose a smaller fish.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
So I think that my husband is he does the
processing and so he knows exactly. I think he would
call it a twenty thirty So about twenty to thirty
pounds would be really nice size for eating.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And it's gonna it's going to.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Be better flesh, better quality.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And then it's lower in mercury too, which is really nice.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah. Yeah, And where are you guys? Where do you
fish out of?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So we fish out of Alaska, Yeah, and the halibit
is out of well, I would I would say kind
of all over southeast up north, and we fish out
of Cordova, Alaska. And so the the longlining is all
about permitting and it's permitted per section and then we
(07:29):
fish Copper River salmon. So our facility is right there
in Cordova, Alaska where the Copper River's caught, and we
bring the the halib, black coot in there too.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And a black cod. At least here it's the deep
water right really deep, it's like two thousand feet.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Ali and black cot are actually both really deep so
you long line for both. So it's a bigger boat,
you're gonna long line. It's going to be miles deep,
and they like they just like slightly different areas, like
the black cot like these kind of rock structures. They're
going to be around those kind of rock areas and
just right before the gulf, so basically right before.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
The shelf just drops off.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
But it's they're really deep and they like really cold water.
Your black cot in California, California black cot is might
be a little more mushy, and the Alaskan black cot
is is the best.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Is that like when we're eating black cod at sushi
or Japanese restaurants, are we eating that more northern black cod?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, it's also called sablefish.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
It's a really hard one because it has a lot
of names and it has been I think it's a
detriment to the fish because it's honestly one of my
favorite fish.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Is so good.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
It's called when we catch it, it's called black cot
on our fish ticket. When we sell it, we have
to sell it as sablefish, and a lot of people
call it butterfish also and so and you can hatch
it all the way from like near Hawaii, up the
Califounlifornia coast and up in Alaska. But it's gonna be
different qualities. So the colder water is gonna be better,
(09:09):
and most of it, like ninety percent of the black
cod goes to Japan, so it is used for sushi
and it's very high quality.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, so how do you how do you longline those
sable fish?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
It's actually done really similar to halibit. They actually use
the same gear. Yeah, it's a it's a hook. They
on a long line. It's the long line is literally mile,
you know, a mile long on the bottom of the ocean,
and every about three feet is a lanyard. So it's
gonna be about eighteen inches and then there's gonna be
a hook on it. So halibut hook is is a
(09:43):
bit bigger and black cod hooks a little bit smaller.
And the bait the fishermen kind of have their favorites.
They use herring or squid and just got a little bait,
sits down there for soaks for a little bit and
they pull back up.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
How how long is you so for those for the
sable fish.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You know, it would be like six hours, maybe twelve,
but it's going to depend on the area and the
fishermen on how long they like to soak it and
kind of some area knowledge that.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Kind of thuff.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah yeah. And then how far how many hooks
do you put on that long line, because aren't those
fish closer to the bottom, they're not too high up
in the water column, correct.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, this long line has weight, so it's on the
bottom of the ocean, and it's going to be like
thirty thousand hooks.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, so this is a this is a These boats,
long line boats are going to be out a lot deeper.
Their bigger boats is like a five man boat, like
our longline boat was like and our family was seventy
three feet wooden boat.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
That would be a pretty typical long line boat.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
But they have hydraulics to lift that long line, of course, no.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Of course. I mean, yeah, we have electric reels out
of here, but I think you can need more than that, right, Yeah, yeah,
that's interesting though. Those halibate are that deep as well. Well.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
My dad started fishing with my grandfather. They did all
halib it, these Norwegian guys. It was all Norwegian boats
and they did all halib it. That's all they were
interested in and in the eighties. My dad was one
of the first guys that was like, hey, we should
try this new thing black cod, and it's big. It's
popular in the Japanese, you know, they want pay for it,
and so they kind of started longlining. But it's the
(11:35):
same gear which is really big. So a lot of
boats now longliners will do halibu and black cod because
it's they can go back and forth. Yeah, it might
even be that they're using the same hook size these days,
so they get it's really about where they place the gear.
And what's crazy is when they're halibut fishing, they get
all halib it. Wow, And when they're black cod fishing,
(11:56):
they get all black cod. And it's just on where
they put the gear and how the depth and the knowledge.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting because when you're long lining for halibit,
you know, I would think because you have a weight,
right that is at the bottom of the line, I
would assume, and then the hooks are baited up. So
it's like, that's what I'm saying, because halibit are in them,
are in the mud or in the sand, right, Yeah, So.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
You've got like a weight with the booy to mark
where it's at and then the line is along the
bottom of the ocean, and then another weight and then
another booy and so you yeah, from so there's a
one booy and then like a mile of long that's
why they call it a long line, and then another booy.
(12:43):
They'll they'll put the whole thing in lay a couple
down and then go back and pick up the first
by finding the booy's. But the the hooks itself are
laying along the bottom of the ocean.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Got it, got it? Got it? Then is it weighted
in the middle at all to keep that keep that
line down?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
The line itself is weighted, Yeah, waited line?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Got it? This is like fascinating for me.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
I used to go out with my dad when I
was in high school, so in the summertimes, and this
is you know, way you know, way back.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So I'm like remembering everything.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
No, I know, And so those alibates are in that
kind of deep water. But then they come into spawn, right,
I mean, is that what the fish that I'm catching
that recreational fishermen are catching are obviously not five thousand
feet deep. I mean you're fishing, you know, sometimes in
the hundreds, but you can even fish up into the
eighties and seventies feet of water, so the halibis just
(13:38):
exists throughout the water column.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I guess yeah, that's a really good question because you know,
like commercial fishing, well, for one thing, we have to
be out there's zones in areas and so, but we
would always be out way deep. The salmon you catch
when it spawns. So salmon is all about the spawning,
like the Copper River salmon the First River.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
The timing on catching.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Salmon is all about the salmon's timing when it's spawning
coming back.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
To the river.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
But for halim in black cod, it's not about the spawning,
and so they're not migrating according to their spawn and
you can fish for them from spring to fall.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Do you have kids?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Three kids?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
How old are the kids?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
They are thirteen, sixteen and nineteen.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Now if you go on our website, you will think
they're little because I.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Have pictures that are too cute to put down.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I get it, I get it. Are they do? They
want to get into the business.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
They've been on the boat.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
So because when we're salmon fishing, my husband does longlining also,
and that's no place for kids.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
But for salmon fishing. You're on a small boat.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
It's like a thirty two foot boat and it's usually
one or one guy or maybe one guy in a decan.
So we've always brought the kids out and so they've
fished every summer with dad and they know kind of
they know enough to know. I don't know if any
of them are planning on that as their career, but
our son is, he'll fish. He's in college now and
(15:18):
he'll continue to fish in the summers to earn money
for college at least.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
No, But it's interesting because it seems like it's been
a family business, right for sure. Yeah, and so who's
taking it over? Yeah, you know what I mean, Like,
I know, you want your kids to do what they
want to do, obviously I have three of them myself.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
At the same time, there's a bit of a legacy
that's happening here, you know, and that someone's got to
do it.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
It's interesting to see and they've all you know, I
feel like we've introduced them and they've seen the real
deal and if they choose it, then they're choosing it
for you know, with blinders open. Yeah, But like I say,
our son comes up every year and it's more about
earning some money and the time frame that works. It's
(16:01):
our youngest when we've been out on the boat. You know,
you can you can do the controls out on the
deck and you're out just boom boom, you're standing up
spray and all of that. And when our youngest was
about five, she'd be out there with dad and he
looked down at her and he sees her smile and
he's like, oh, this is gonna be our fisherman.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I know. It's like my daughter, she's the only one
wants to go out with me on my boat and fish.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, our middle it was like, I'll be the cook,
right sat.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And then the salmon, how how do you what's the
process of catching the salmon?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So we gillnet for the salmon, and it's super regulated
in terms of everything from the size of the boat
has to be under thirty two feet, their gill netters
off the their bow pickers, so the gill net goes
off the bow, and then the size of the net,
size of the holes. Everything is really tightly regulated. But
the net goes off the bow. And for salmon, you know,
(17:05):
you think of a river. You're doing it when they're spawning.
But the Copper River is like three hundred miles the
delta is three hundred miles wide, so it's huge, and
it's full of sandbars that move every year, and so
when they fish, you're out on this kind of like
in the beginning of the season, especially for the opener,
(17:27):
you'll be throwing your booy right at the surf and
then going off of the beach. And at different times
they're at different depths, so they might be out further,
but you're you're just you throw the buoy and you've
got a net coming off the bow and you're just reversing,
backing up and letting the net out. And so you're
gonna lay there with the net kind of making sure
(17:48):
it's straight and you know, tugging on it or whatnot,
for however long. Like for the opener, it's like however
long they can stand it, right, they got they gotta
check the net and see. Then you start pulling it
in and you're hand picking every fish. You are hand picking,
hand picking every fish. And especially for Copper River, it's
(18:09):
a slower fishery. It's not as the fish aren't coming
in as fast and they're highly valued and so that
quality is super key. So you have time to hand
bleed high pressure bleed, get them on ice right away.
So it's all about that time, temperature and that handling.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It's interesting because I don't think anyone knows what goes
into the processing of the fish right from when that
fish hits the boat, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
And that matters a lot. But they're doing on the boat,
you know, not flopping on the deck, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, and then you know the bleeding of the fish.
You know, this is what we do with the tuna
as well, you know, and then there's it's like hot
sheet something where you're putting the needle into the vertebrae.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Right, that's mostly for tuna. You know, I studied tuna
and I got my master's degree. I studied West coast
albuquartuna and on board handling techniques in correlation with then
we did sensory and so it was like all that stuff,
you know, exactly what you're doing on board, and then
doing sensory for okay, how does this affect the flavor?
How does this affect the flavor? And for tuna, they
(19:18):
do kind of.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
The spike, they spike its head, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah, they don't do that for salmon, but they'll pluck
a gill and we'll put it in a high pressure
bleed system with basically like hose water.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Seawater flowing through it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah. Now this is a Japanese technique because it's not
about a spike in the brain. There is as it's
basically the vertebrae, there's the nerve endings. And you take
this needle and you put it up through the back
of the halibit and you see the halibit just quiver
and then die. What it does is, you know, when
(19:54):
they're obviously hooked or gaffed or dying, they get rigid
and they're going through stress. But this thing literally just
shuts them down. So it just preserves that meat.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Lactic acid, not building up that muscle heat.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah yeah, well, okay, wait, I got to talk to
you about the albacore because the fact that you've studied
it is so cool. You know, in southern California, I
began fishing twenty plus years ago, and when we went
out out of San Diego or we went out into
our bit or whatever it was there was, it was
all albacore. You had mixed in blue fin. The migration
patterns were such that they were down here, water temp bait,
(20:30):
you know, a lot of anchovy, all that, and then
twenty years ago, twenty years ago whatever, they just disappeared.
It's almost like they took a more northern or west north,
the northerly route, right, and then all of a sudden,
you know, water temperatures changed here. We started to get
yellow fintuna, we got dorado, and now the big blue
(20:53):
fintuna have moved in for the last almost ten years, right,
And everyone is sort of waiting for this patterned, for
this to change, and everyone has these predictions, but no
one knows, right. And I'm sure you don't know, no,
but you have actually had study in this, like is
there any rhyme or reason, like you know when these
(21:13):
fish will come back into SoCal or when their patterns
will change off?
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I think.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I mean, for my studies, I was studying Omega three's
and onboard handling techniques. But I think just in terms
of fish, same things things are happening with the crab too.
I think personally it's all about water temperatures and those
fish are going to move for the water temps and
so I was studying west coast to albu Quartuna off
of organ for my masters and so at that time,
(21:41):
I mean, Oregon has a really huge Albuquortuna industry, and
so it makes sense to me that those fish are moving.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Up to colder water.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yeah, And unfortunately I don't see that reversing. I mean,
I loved I would love to see the temps down.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
But well, that's what I'll talk to you about a
little bit. Is just conservation, you know, regulations, you know,
just sort of you know, government and how that's affected
your industry and sort of where you stand on it
as far as boots on the ground climate change, you
(22:21):
know what I mean. Not scientists who are you know,
obviously have their predictions are what they are and their
science behind it. But someone who's lived in this world
and what you've experienced.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Yeah, for a fishing family like we are, multi generational
fishing family, I think that a lot of people, I mean,
first off, the relationship is kind of misunderstood a little
bit because people would kind of assume that Okay, well,
you're a commercial fisherman. You're trying to catch as much
fish as you can every time you go out but
as a multi generational fishing family, which most of the
(22:54):
industry is, and this is you know, us domestic fishing
industry is we want to keep fishing for lifetimes and
we want our kids to have that opportunity to for
that lifestyle. And so most fishermen are very conservation minded.
They want to come back and be able to continue
their livelihoods. So that's just one main misconception is about
(23:16):
commercial fishing in general, but especially for our domestic fishing families.
So fishermen are always watching and you know what's happening,
and it's very cyclical. It's a really hard thing because
if you think of farmers, I mean they can plant
their fields, they can watch the crops grow, they know
what's going to happen if it rains or freezes. You know,
they see what's happening. But for fishing, it's just like
(23:38):
every year is like, oh, man, I hope there's all
I hope they come back. You know, there's a lot
of unknowns, there's a lot of stuff riding on it.
But for all of our fishing is in the state
of Alaska. And I can say that the state of
Alaska has been sustainably minded for the longest time. It's
in their state constitution. I mean, it's really big deal.
(24:00):
Of course, they've known forever that fishing is their industry,
so they've done it right, which is really huge. So
these big rivers in Alaska, they've been kind of monitoring
the runs and doing these science based you know, database
catches for a really long time. So like for Copper River,
(24:22):
there's it opens in May, it's coming up. We're opening
actually a week later this year for sustainability measures to
make sure, you know, more fish get up the river.
But even once we start fishing, it only opens if
they've caught, if they have their you know, million pounds
through the sonars up river. And then at that you
were only fishing twice a week for starts with twelve
(24:45):
hour openers, and each opener is just they open each
opener it's either on Monday or Thursday only, and even
those only open if enough fish have come up through
the river at that time, so they use fish counters.
So those sustainability practices are huge. And it's not like, yeah,
guys don't fish right now. I mean it is like
(25:08):
there are zero nets in the water unless it's open
for fishing, and it's highly highly regulated, so that's huge.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
We want the regulations.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
You know, there's been times with halibate and black cod
that's federally regulated, and so it can be a little
bit slower like samine is real time boots on the ground.
We're monitoring today's numbers for tomorrow's opener. Yeah, and halibate
and black cod is federally regulated, and they're looking at
like last year's catch and all the numbers are in
(25:41):
and the fisher are going, hey, these quotas need to
shrink because it's just a pie for that everybody has
the slice of the pie, how much quota they have
to catch. So it's real easy federally for them to go,
we're just shrinking the pie this year based on catch
or expanding the pie.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
And so it's.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And then every fishermen their slice is expanded or reduced.
So it's very easy for them to regulate that year's catch.
But sometimes it feels like it's a couple of years late.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Got it based on the data. That's interesting and the
federal regulators do they for the most part, they restrict
the quota too much or is it too generous?
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Well, like for the black cord you know, like if
the black cord numbers feel like they're going down, the
fishermen are going, hey, you need to reduce, you need
to reduce, and then like it feels like there's a
leg and then.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
They'll reduce a whole bunch.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
It's it's just interesting, you know, on that federal level,
it's just harder to have their their you know, thumb
on the dial exactly, and so the jumps can be
a little bit more like.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Why can't that be state regulated as well?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Why is that federal waters?
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Because wat or so got it? Okay, Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Yeah, but at least it's the mechanisms are there and
it's able to be regulated and is being looked at
every year.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
So all we need to do is be.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Get better at looking at the data and better at analyzing.
And they have you know, guys on the boat monitoring
for longlining and things like that, observers and things like that.
So there's a lot of really good things in place,
which is good.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah. No, I think that, I think you're right. I
think there's a major misconception that fishermen, commercial and even
recreational fishermen are all for just killing things. I mean,
we are the most conservative when it comes to catch.
You know, so when I post pictures of my big
tuna or something online because I have a million followers
(27:53):
on Instagram, I know that I'm going to get the
idiots who are going to say so I will post
saying before you, you fucking assholes, say anything. Fishermen are
the most are the biggest conservationists that you can ask for.
So I don't want to hear any of your bullshit.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Absolutely, And I mean I've got okay, I mean, don't
get me on my soapbox. But you know I get
people too, and they're like, you know, the oceans are dying.
We need to stop eating fish like tomorrow, you know.
And I'm going, hey, if we stopped eating fish tomorrow,
I mean, for one thing, these commercial runs like Copper
River Salmon would actually over, you know, too many fish
(28:34):
would return, and it would foul the river for generations
because it would be too acidic if all these fish
returned at once, because we're kind of built into the
system because we've been doing this for hundreds of years,
and so for one, it would totally foul the rivers.
But for two, and this is something people don't think
about you know, thinking of Alaska Copper River salmon, the
(28:56):
most valuable salmon in the world. The that river is pristine.
There's no deforestation, there's no mining near it, there's no nothing.
And if we didn't, if it wasn't the most valuable
fish you know, on the planet, who would stop the
(29:17):
miners and the deforestation. I mean it wouldn't be pure
and pristine because it wouldn't have value. So valuing these fish,
you know, fishing, you know, people that eat the fish
and pay for it and invest in this fish. They're
investing in this whole industry that is keeping these rivers
(29:38):
clean and pristine. I mean there's you know it's political,
but this whole there's a pebble mind trying to be
put in.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Up in Crystol Bay.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah. I know about that. I have a friend who's
been all about that. Yeah, pebble mind thing. Yeah, he
made a documentary about it.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Actually, oh yeah, and they and they did it, and
you know, so the whole thing is like this pebble mind.
They want to put it at the headwaters of the
biggest you know, wild salmon run on the planet. Well,
who's against it? It's the fishermen, of course, but the
whole fishing industry is keeping these you know, rivers clean
and pristine for the salmon.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
So that's huge.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
So wait, why are Copper River salmon like the most
valuable fish salmon?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
So they have the highest omega threes. And for fish,
a lot like like beef, you know, beef is Grade
A or whatever prime because it has more fat. And
for fish, I mean there's there's you know, five species
of salmon and then they're which are slightly different, and
then they're slightly different from the river they're caught in.
It's like the mare woah, like the terroa of wine,
(30:52):
the mariua the fish. So every river is going to
have slightly different flavored fish. But the Copper River has
the highest mega threes. So they think that's because it's
really it's really cold, it's really steep, and it's really arduous,
and so the fish pack on moral mega threes.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
But it makes them taste better too.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
And for fish, the fat is you know, good fat.
It makes it taste good, but it's also healthy for you,
so you get you know, all the benefits.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
My god, I can't wait. I did the hell of it,
but I can't wait. I'm excited. Yeah. And these are
these stalk are from last last year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So we're just about to open for this year. So
we we freeze, We vacuum seal and freeze so they
last the whole year, which is amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
But you really got to try it. When it opens
up in mad I.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Will be hitting you up because hold on, you talk
about the business, talk about you know, the ship. I
want to you know, let's let's sell this, okay.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
So basically, I mean, we've been fishing for generations.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I have a master's degree in handling.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
My husband is a fisherman, and I'm telling him, you know,
you need to handle your fish like this, and you
need to do that and so and he's catching Copper
River Soaki Copper River King, perfect handling. And so basically
we're like, we have we catch the best fish on
the planet. Our freezer at home is filled with the
best fish. Our kids get to eat this best fish,
(32:17):
and you know, it would be nice of us to share.
So that's the basis for our whole business is that
we catch it the very best. Now we have our
own custom processes, so we handle it ourselves and we
custom cut freeze, vacuum, seal, and then we ship to
your door. And so this is for people that are
interested in they want what we have the very best
(32:41):
fish on the planet at their door. And and you know,
not everybody has that available. I mean very few people do.
Very few people can find it locally. So it's a
huge deal to be able to get this. I'll fly
up and I'll go fish with Rich on the opener
and then we'll have a wait list for people wanting
the Copper River King and soak and we'll ship right
(33:02):
to the door.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Oh so you got Copper River King too. Oh yeah,
that must be amazed. Oh it's amazing, wow, because those
kings are real fatty, right, I.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Mean really fatty. They're thick.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
The fat is just like what I mean, it's just
it's like buttery, I mean melt in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, Oh my god, yeah, Jesus. Okay, So name of
the company, How are we getting a hold of you?
How are people going about the process of buying fish
from you?
Speaker 3 (33:35):
So go to senesc dot com, s e n A
s e A dot com. Check out our website. We
have a pre order going for the Copper River King
and sake. But jump on our email list, because that's
where I'm going to tell everybody what's in season, what's happening,
how to cook it. I mean, just tons of information.
And once you're on there, you'll be taken care of.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
And do you have an Instagram account?
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Instagram is seen as see underscore spacey things, seafoods.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Okay, we'll be.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Posting the openers a couple of weeks. I'll be up
there with my husband, will be posting lots of pictures
and all that.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Well, I'm going to post and and and you know,
try to juice you guys up to I like that. Yeah,
And all I ask is that I can I jump
the line. I don't want to wait. Yeah, I don't
want to wait list. I'm gonna jump the line. I
want to jump copper.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Right off the opener.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yes what I want?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Okay, yeah, fair enough?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
And then real quick before I go, the halibit that
I last night was that last year halibit as well?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Last year you.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Kidding, man, Let me just say something, but like I
you know, look, we talked a lot about the actual
intricacies of fishing, which which really you know, gets me
going because it's what I love. Are people going to
listen to this and being like, oh my god, yes
there's interest in that. But what we're here to do
is to promote the brand and eat incredible fish. I
(35:00):
have been eating fish all my life. I catch my
own fish. I vacuum sal my own fish. I have
caught fish in halib that has been shipped, that has
been fresh two weeks prior. I swear to God to you.
When I ate this halibit you almost could just sear it.
And you could have seared halib what was raw in
the middle, and it was you can taste the freshness
(35:22):
after a year, and it was that good. And I'm
not just saying this to pump you up. I'm being honest.
It was unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I mean, really, did you notice the layer, like the
parchment paper we wrap around the fish prior to vacuum ceiling. Yeah,
so it hasn't touched plastic. It's an extra barrier.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Nobody else does that.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
But my dad, who's halibut fisherman all his life, you know,
he's been eating halibt on the boat. The first time
he you know, when we started this whole business. And
of course he's a subscriber and he gets the fish
in the winter and he same thing, and this is
from a Halibut fisherman, and he's like, oh my god,
was that last year's fish?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
That was a it's crazy. It was crazy. I mean
I couldn't even believe it I was eating. I mean,
it was really that good. That's why I was excited
to ask you when that fish was actually caught. I mean,
I can't even imagine the fresh stuff.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Right which we're getting in a couple of weeks. So
but I kind of love that you you know, that's
what we have right now. That's what fishermen eat in
the winter. It's last year's fish frozen and that's the
real deal. But I kind of love that you have
to try that.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
No, me too, me too. I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, last question, gover King.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, so we specialize in frozen that's what we do
when we get to people's door. But for two weeks
when the opener, just to celebrate the opener, and because
we are honestly catching and shipping so fast, we don't
have time.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
To freeze the fish. Ship it fresh for two weeks.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
So got fresh, give me some fresh? Crazy? When does that?
When does that that would be sometime in May.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
So it'll open this year.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
It looks like it's going to be opening the twin second,
a week later than usual, and so we'll be getting
it out right after a Memorial weekend. Unfortunately, not before,
but right after Memorial weekend.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yes, yes, yes, oh yes, awesome, well cool, Thank you
so much. This was really really fun for me and
uh on the fish was incredible and I'm going to
have the sakey tonight. Oh good, So use that recipe
or what should I do?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Just which one did I throw in there?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I don't even remember, you know, you know, I mean,
you know sometimes it's so good, just it's like plain
you know what I mean, like y salt pepper.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, salt pepper, like crispy skin. That's what I would
do with the fresh is like salt pepper, crispy skin
or just like on the barbecue. But I mean, and
this is frozen, so when it's frozen it's sushi quality
also yeah, so I mean, yeah, the the key is
with the really good fish.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I mean, the less you do, the better. It's like
a really good steak.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
No, I know, okay, good, well, thank you so much.
This was awesome, really fun. You and I'm definitely definitely
keeping in touch without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Thank you, all right, thanks. That was a weird one
because it's so on brand with me but off brand
with the show. But it's just like I can, I
can only say that if you've, if you've stuck with
this this episode, get the fish now. To be fair,
(38:28):
I don't know how much it costs. They sent me
a box just to try so I could promote it,
but it's high grade ship and I don't know if
it's expensive or not. I'm sure somewhat. But if you
love fish, I think this is the spot. Anyway, I'm out.
I just did. I feel like I did a commercial
and I'm leaving.
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Oliver Hudson
Kate Hudson
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