Sibling Melodies with Brothers Osborne

If you thought the rock & roll lifestyle was bumpy, wait until you hear how these country crooners grew up!
Kate and Oliver are joined by hitmakers T.J. and John Osborne for a fun and VERY revealing episode.
From the grown-up parties they attended as kids, to a life-changing confession, this is the story that inspired the songs.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationships and
what it's like to be siblings. We are a.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Sibling REIVALR No, no sibling. You don't do that with
your mouth.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Revely. That's good.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
All.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm really excited about this.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
The Osbourne Brosbies, the Obs, the brothers Osborne actually.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Are very loved in Nashville.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
And you know, my my team, my all, my music team,
they're all Nashville based, and I Scott.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
From my manager Jake. He was like, you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Love these guys. Do you know them?

Speaker 3 (01:04):
So let's bring them a job. I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I don't know them at all, but I know that
I don't know if it's John or TJ. But one
of them is like, wants to be your best friend,
and I think you're gonna love him. Yeah, I think
we need to hang. I think you're gonna find it
meet a new best time. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, this is very tempting. You know, I'm ten days
without a cocktail, which for me is like for really
four and a half years. Really, yeah, all the time,
and no cigarettes, no alcohol, that's crazy for him.

Speaker 5 (01:37):
Well, I've had some cigarettes, but I've been off. Wait
did you quiz cigarettes and alcohol at the same time.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, here's the thing. I don't I'm weird. I don't smoke.
If I don't drink, I need it. It's really interesting,
you know what I mean? Like if I have a
if liquor touches my lips, I'm like, where are my
American spirits? You know they do paarallell, they do, they.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Do, but fe oh see my problem, My problem with
cigarettes is it's coffee and cigarettes.

Speaker 6 (02:08):
I used to be mine album.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
So I wake up and I'm like, oh.

Speaker 5 (02:12):
Well, do you have a stit on coffee in the morning.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I quit when I quit a long time ago.

Speaker 6 (02:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
I have to say.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I watched all of our the family barbecue this Sunday,
watch our brother smoke, our other brothers smoke, and I
was really impressed that you didn't have a cigarette.

Speaker 6 (02:30):
No.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
No, well, here's the thing, Like, I don't know lower
case a alcoholic. I'm not sure what I am right,
But I drink. I drink too much, meaning when I
do drink, I can't have two drinks. I have to
have twenty. You know what. I mean, like I feel
I cannot just go to and hey, cool, we're good.

(02:53):
I have to have twenty drinks and eighty cigarettes rather
than I don't have two drinks and two cigarettes.

Speaker 5 (02:58):
I don't understand when pool I quit drinking, so I'm
drinking non alcoholic beer.

Speaker 6 (03:03):
Wow, why you do? Why would you do that?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Forget it?

Speaker 6 (03:07):
Just like I just want the calories.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, no, forget it.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
I feel like it's because I feel like if you
gone into the art of the drink, then maybe you
you would enjoy one drink and not five of them.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I guess. I guess if you like took.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
The time to make a negroni or like.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
A paper plane. Yeah, but I make ten. I make
ten nigronies.

Speaker 6 (03:37):
You know, that's the thing, is all.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
But that's like, yes, I mean that could be maybe
if you're bringing into a problem. But at the same time,
like I'm on the mind, like if almost why go
kind of part of the way, like I just.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I'm right there with you. And and by the way,
I'm a great drunk, meaning I can have seventy eight drinks.
No one's gonna know I'm drunk.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
That's because you're drunk, Okay, I can tell you.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
I can tell you.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I have moments with Oliver where sometimes I'm like, no, okay,
and he's like, yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
You know, so are you a happy drunk. I'm a
happy drunk.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
I'm very happy. I'm fine.

Speaker 6 (04:15):
I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I have the best time ever.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
The problem is, so, if you're an alcoholic and you're
a problem for someone else, I think that's really bad.
But if you're only really a problem for yourself.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, that's by the way. I love this rational The
alcohol is this is so problematic.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Oh man, you know, I sometimes think about like our grandparents' generation.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
They were all alcoholics.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
They drank every night.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I mean my grandma drank a Scotch and water at
least two every night.

Speaker 6 (04:54):
Everyone's he's actually fine, and we all prox it with this.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
He had a little bit of cancer o dad with
radiation treatment, and everyone was like, how's your dad doing?
And I'm like, well, he's doing these this radiation treatment.
But I think the thing that's really killing him is
the radiation treatment is the fact that he can't drink beer.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is no fun.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
When he had his last radiation treatment, they all went
to the hospital to bring balloons and but his gift
was an eighteen packer Corps light.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Amazing, amazing. Okay, then we'll get off the alcohol. But
but I was just skiing and the Cores light.

Speaker 6 (05:32):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
I would wake up and I was in Montana, and
I'd have like three cores lights and a couple of
fireball shots and then go the mountain and then I'm like, fuck, yes,
it is time to ski, baby, And then yeah, and
then I hit them. And then I have lunch and
have like a few Gen and Tonics and I'm like
fuck yeah. And then get home after skiing and then

(05:54):
make a couple of like tequila sodas and smoke a
thousand cigarettes. I'm like, it's the best fucking day.

Speaker 6 (06:00):
It is.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
And then and then after day seven, I'm like, I
feel like shit and it's time to like I'm almost fifty.
I gotta get it together.

Speaker 6 (06:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
And it's been ten days. And the thing is, I've
you never I've never felt you never felt better. I mean,
you feel incredible. You feel so good that you need
a drink. That's the thing. I think. I was like,
I don't feel hungover. I feel amazing, Like I get
right now better. I know a drink exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I think we need to get rich Roll on this program.
I think it's time you have a counselor. I'm good,
I'm good. It's gonna be Osborne brother. Now are you
guys in Nashville right now?

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Where are you are?

Speaker 6 (06:46):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (06:46):
This is uh, we're We're right down to Nashville. This
is our manager his office.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
I was with Jake Basden last night, who just loves
you guys?

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Who's my manager? And uh, a.

Speaker 5 (07:01):
Few weeks ago, there's a really great sushi restaurant here
in Nasvill Club eighty eight, and he was at the
bar and we kind of had known each other for
a while, but I had forgotten that he was your manager.
And then I gilted him into guilting you guys.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
I'm so happy.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
But wait is eight eight eight is eighty eighth the
place that does the Vinyl night Adi Vinyl.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
I had sushi. I love that place.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
It's really good, so good.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
So you guys are from Maryland.

Speaker 6 (07:29):
Yeah, we're East coast, East coast boys. We you know.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
I think that's like, what was the weirdest thing for
everyone's like, how the hell are you get in the
country music being from Maryland? But it's like we're like
little We were up with Chesapeake Bay, a little small
watertown called Deal. It's like four thousand people, and uh
you know that's yeah, that's it. That's where we're from.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Good flounder fishing.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
The.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Stripe ass some stripers. Yeah, I'm a huge fisherman. I
have a boat. I catch big tuna and I'm gonna
go I'm yeah, I'm cessed row. There sothern California is amazing.
In the last ten years, those big bluefin have just
come in through their sort of migration patterns, and so
every year around June, actually right now, they're starting to
show up.

Speaker 6 (08:10):
You get big.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
You know, two hundred three hundred pound er is like
forty miles off shore from fucking you going to do
that without drinking? I haven't done that yet. By the way,
I'm not quitting drinking, but I haven't. I haven't been
on my boat yet this season, so you know, well,
we'll see, we'll see. I want to go out this year.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
I have I've never been on your boat.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Should we do a podcast from your boat?

Speaker 6 (08:35):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, that'll be interesting.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
I know.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
The sad reality is that TJ and I get horrifically
see sick. Do you well like on the bay if
it's not too choppy.

Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, And but we went.

Speaker 5 (08:48):
We were in Key West and we went fishing for
mahi mahi, which was great fishing.

Speaker 6 (08:52):
By the way.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Yeah, but if I if I can't see land anymore,
it is full on bunderfest. And of course we were hungover.
We were, Yeah, And at one point TJ and I
were both sitting on a cooler and we're out with
some friends and some strangers and we were sitting next
to each other on a cooler. He would throw up
and we would switch fish come back.

Speaker 6 (09:16):
I would. We would swish, swish.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
And I would go fish and it was fun about
an hour and then I never do it again.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
There's nothing worse than being seasick. It's just fucking horrendous.
And by the way, when you're hungover and seasick, you
cannot get worse than that. Yeah, yeah, I don't. We
don't really get seasick. You don't get seasick. The only
time I took a boat up from la up to Vancouver,
and we were more obey and tide went on that

(09:46):
night and had to get up at like four am
to get out of the you know, the inlet and
all that, and I was like, uh oh, and I.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
Hold on, did you took a boat from Vancouver? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I mean I didn't drive it. I was I was
on the boat helping sort of fair a millionaire my dad. Yeah,
it was incredible that it was incredible.

Speaker 6 (10:04):
But like you, i'd be like bringing up help.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, is it Maryland? That is the Mason Dixon Line.
I you're not too far from right, you're kind of like.

Speaker 6 (10:16):
Very good geography over here.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, you're kind of just like.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
Just south of it. We're like technically south of the
Mason Dixon Line, but we're far enough north where we
don't really give a ship. And I think it's like
maybe I think.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
Kind of perfect for us though, because you know, like
even in like country, it's like, you know, we're not
like the most country.

Speaker 6 (10:38):
We're not really rock. We're kind of in this like
in between like what are we you know?

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (10:41):
And up there it's like, yeah, if you're from the north,
everyone considered you from the south, and everyone from the
south considered you from the north.

Speaker 6 (10:47):
It was like we're kind of being in like no
man's land a little bit.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well, you know, our mom. Our mom's from Maryland.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah Park from Tacoma Park, Maryland, kind of outside of DC.

Speaker 6 (11:00):
That makes me happy.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
The only other person I knew from Maryland was like
Tony Pxton, So this is really like.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
A lot of Tony from the Yeah Blair Blair High School.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
I would be shocked if your mom had this or
gave two ships about it. But you know, in Maryland,
it's the other thing. I didn't realize this growing up there,
but our bass player at the time was like, man,
he's like the only other state I've seen have like
the Texas Pride where its stickers and all the fanfare
around it. He's like, it's Maryland, and I'm like, no way.

(11:34):
And then I started thinking about it, and we are
kind of really oddly crazy about like our state flag.
There's the really classic thing. I was just in Phoenix
a couple of days ago and I was like, oh
my god, it's a crab that has the Maryland flag
like on it, and it's just like, think that no
one have a single clue what it's about when you're

(11:55):
from Like, I will defend that person to the death.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
Then they got road rage.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
In right now, you know, I'm going to ask mom
about it.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
But my mom actually my my mom and my so
our family is basically that side. They were the only
ones that were kind of a little bit north, whereas
everyone else was was Arkansas and Nashville, so the whole. Yeah,
so most of the Hans are actually in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
They are. Yeah, the fuck is going on. But we
didn't wait a minute, but they didn't. That wasn't they wouldn't.
They didn't live in that they're there now. They live
in Nashville, like.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, so so so granddaddy, they were.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
So minute.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Our granddaddy is Arkansas. Yes, he moved to Maryland because
he was a musician. Yes, and that's where he had
all of his gide because.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
He was were still Arkansas. So no.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
So so he had five brothers.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
They all grew up in Arkansas, but they went to
stayed in Arkansas. Sorry, Only uncle Dag was Arkansas and
the other three went to brothers went to Nashville, and
our granddaddy went to Maryland.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
They were in Nashville.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Little Han history.

Speaker 6 (13:26):
On the other side of you have musicians.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
As well, right, yeah, yeah, but just like Italian Italian.

Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah, it was in a band years ago and
had written a bunch of song at all about this.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Wow, Well, Kate needs to her career needs to keep
going and take off in the music world. And then
she'll sort of bring me along. I'll do some cuts,
they'll do some background vocals. And then I.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Found I found a freestyle that Oliver did and sent
it to me called the motherfucking Palisades.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
And I literally was listen.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
I was going through all my old music, like old music,
and I found it.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
I have it. It's in there.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
You got in there.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
We can release it.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
Were you both okay? After the fires? You guys are
all all right?

Speaker 6 (14:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I mean fortunately, Yeah, I was right on the edge.
We I just got in this week back into my house. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
And brother, our brother had mishap.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, his house burnt down.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
It's been so weird, honestly, Like the whole experience has
been quite something.

Speaker 6 (14:41):
I bet I can't imagine. I bet.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Okay, wait when.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
It's all edited out material. But when we go there,
we Mary Steam Virgin and Ted Dancing are like really
close friends of ours, so we stayed with them in
the Palisades every.

Speaker 6 (14:52):
Time we go there.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
Apparently their house is okay, but they says it's like,
just look, a bomb went off.

Speaker 6 (14:57):
It's so sad.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, I mean I was saying before. You know, I've
said this a million times, but the worst, the only
worse than having your house burned down is the one
that's standing, you know what I mean? Like it was
in all the rubble of the see these one house,
and you're just like, I don't want that anymore?

Speaker 6 (15:15):
Holy fun?

Speaker 2 (15:15):
What am I supposed to do? I can't. I can't
sell it, I can't collect the insturments, I can't move
back in, Like what am I supposed to do?

Speaker 6 (15:22):
Here? You know it?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
So you're you.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
You grew up in a family of musicians. Your family
were your parents.

Speaker 4 (15:38):
Musicians, they were, and they both tried to come to
Nashville and write. I mean, they wrote a bunch of
really cool songs that were actually we talked about like
re recording them like in a more professional setting. But
that's cool. I know it would be really cool. Yeah,
you just kind of grew up around it. We didn't
really know any different. We didn't know that it was
an unusual thing to kind of like in life. But

(16:01):
you know, when I look back down and how hard
it was for us to kind of get started doing it.
I mean they had five kids and they were like,
you know, our dad's a plumber, mom's a hair dresser.
I mean they were like, you know, they were paycheck
to paycheck at best. So I mean them coming down
here and still trying to make it happen. So when
we little kids, and I actually posted a video about
this yesterday, there's this little thing I found where it
was like basically I can't. It was this video of

(16:23):
this videoographer like this like and his like really cute
parents and they're like his the kids like filming and
it's like really low quality, and they're like, keep doing it.
You're you're so good at this, and then it fast
forwards to him later in life and he's like shooting
professional films. It made me cry because I was like,
this reminds me of our childhood, Like we didn't have anything,

(16:44):
but our parents believed in us and they were like,
you got this. You guys were really good when we
were terrible, and it definitely gave us the confidence to
keep going and doing this. But yeah, I mean, having
that background is absolutely the driver.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
I think, were you actually terrible or or you just
thought you weren't.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
I mean I wasn't actually, I think, I mean when
we were little, it wasn't great.

Speaker 6 (17:06):
It wasn't great.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, how old is little? How old is little?

Speaker 6 (17:09):
Ten? Eleven, twelve?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Okay, well so you're little little meaning like you shouldn't
be that dope yet, right, But.

Speaker 6 (17:18):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
They were like, you know, they would have like everyone
stop and listen and be like, yeah the song and
we would come and it's like, you know, it was
just I mean, probably cute to them. Sometimes they would laugh,
and because I think it was cute, I thought I
was cute.

Speaker 6 (17:32):
But when I was like eight, I was like, what
the fuck? Like laugh at me?

Speaker 5 (17:36):
Likes. Bof also dropped when he was like nine years old, right,
I was going through puberty and.

Speaker 6 (17:43):
I was just like talking up, here's three years younger
than me.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
He's like what so man, yeah, Bala.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Palace.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
So he was just kind of destined for glory glory.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
But anyway, so but back to your original and we
grew up, we kind of I think like the first
thing we wanted to accomplish was like our dad, his brother,
and our cousin Johnny, like were the three people the
would always sit around at the kitchen.

Speaker 6 (18:13):
Table and play originals.

Speaker 4 (18:14):
They might be like Bob Seeger covers or something, and
we always wanted to join in, but they would not
let us join unless we really took it seriously. H
and so we like, what we wanted was a literal
seat at the table in our kitchen to just play
with our uncle and our dad and our cousin. And
that's kind of where it started. And then they were
I mean some of them were like our cousin, you know, Johnny,

(18:36):
like he was tough. You know, he wasn't just going to,
you know, give you a pat on the back for nothing.
I mean you had to actually impress them. And so
it really raised the bar for us, and that was
like our first first goal.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, did you have.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
A good piano in the house or was it all guitar?

Speaker 5 (18:54):
You did have a piano in the house when we
were wretched. I still have a piano in the house.
My wife's a really good piano player. I'm wretched. But
guitar was the thing. We always had guitars laying around
and our dad would play just you know, it just
it was just always there. It was never in your house.
And it's one of those things when you grow up
the way you think it's normal, and it's really not
that normal. It's not normal for music all the time.

(19:16):
So I do feel very lucky in that fact. And
having parents that support what you want to do is
also something that you realize isn't that common as well.
I feel like we could have decided to be anything
between an astronaut to a min and our parents are like,
you got a kid, So that kind of encouragement was
really helpful.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
They sound awesome, I know they are.

Speaker 6 (19:38):
They're very very long.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Tell me more, tell me more, like what what so?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
So we respited, I mean just sort of.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
So like you grew up like they were the kind
of parents. I'm just assuming that, Like they were the
kind of parents that like would have parties and be
hanging out and you never felt like you were had
to be in another room.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
It was just like a big They.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Were like, again, we didn't they couldn't afford a babyshit
or anything like this. So they went out the party.
They would just bring us with them, and then we
made some person's house so whenever they decided to go home,
and we would just hang out like and so we
never really hang out with the kids that much.

Speaker 6 (20:15):
We hung out with people.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Were like, you know, our age, and uh, you know,
I think again it was like then my dad would
break out the guitar and then he'd be like, you know, John,
I think one of his first accomplishments was just learning
the courts the Freebird, you know, the powers, and everyone's
like watch him play, you know, And so it was, yeah,
it was.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Were you guys always tight growing up?

Speaker 5 (20:37):
Yeah, yeah, they're very close. So we slept in bunk
beds we grew up.

Speaker 6 (20:41):
We slept in the same bed. Uh yeah, in the
same loom. And but yeah we had we have bunk bets.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
And I graduated high school and then the great irony
of that being fast forward until about fifteen years ago
we're back bed and but yeah, you know, I mean
we're very very close, very very tight.

Speaker 6 (21:02):
You know.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
We we love and ador each other like brothers. We
also fight like brothers. But you know, in terms of
sibling bands, we're doing pretty well. The you know, the
Oasis Gallagher Brothers saying anytime soon come close.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
Well, I was going to ask you guys this actually
before the start, I was curious, like I don't know, like,
was you know we John and I we've been up
and about this. We talked about it in articles before.
I guess, but you know, there was a time where
we went we did like a couple's there. We like
went to a therapist together. We were hard and people
would be like a couple of I'm not kind of

(21:38):
it sounds weird, but it was like super incredibly helpful.

Speaker 6 (21:42):
I don't know if that's cool.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
I did that was Oliver once. It was a failed attempt.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
It's hard for the other person when you're always right.
Am I wrong about this?

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah? I just like Kate her thing and you know, Oliver, Oliver,
why did we have a therapy?

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Oliver can't hand when I feel hurt and have to
express it to him. It's like he can't deal with it.
He's like, no, I'm not dealing with this. I can't
deal with it. I feel already I feel too much guilt,
too much shame for being a terrible brother, and now
that you feel hurt, I just don't want to hear it.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
No, it's too formal. I don't like communicating like a therapist,
being like I feel that you did this and it
makes me feel this way, and I'd rather have a
normal conversation, not with a therapist.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Right exactly, Well, thank you for asking.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
And then and then on top and then on top
of it, I get this from Kate all the time,
which you know, it's an impossible to penetrate. Hey, Kate,
you know I just here's my thing. I feel like
sometimes you can be condescending to me and you make
me feel like I'm not good enough or whatever I'm saying, Do.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
You feel that way?

Speaker 2 (22:56):
And then she goes exactly, she goes, well, I'm sorry
you feel that way. I'm like, oh, I hate it,
but that's such a bullshit.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
What do you want me to say?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
There is no taking accountability. That's not taking accountability for
someone's feelings. It's just saying, well, I'm right, but I'm
sorry you feel that way. Yeah, I'm sorry. You're such
a fucking idiot loser, right right, well exactly, I'm sorry
you feel that way. I'm like, what, No, what else.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Are you going to say?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
I wo like, I didn't really think that I was
making you feel like that, and I would never want
to hurt.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
But it doesn't, of course, not of course, But it
doesn't change the experience.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
You're your experience. No, it doesn't. So my thing is
It's like if I have a boundary.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
If I have a boundary, or if I have a
point of view and it's not liked or it's not
appreciated or it makes you feel bad, then you're in
that sort of thing where it's like, I hate that
this man makes you feel bad, but that is my boundary.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
No, but you also have to take accountability that maybe
look inward and say, well, what did I do to
make him or whoever feel that way? Maybe I gave
you half, guys, I deserved it was my idea. It
was my idea.

Speaker 6 (24:22):
I just want to say, I gave you the money.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
It was my idea.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
I had a lot of progress here, guys. I'm very proud.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Thank you, guys, I said, I'm so glad we had
you on.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
You guys, I already can't wait to hang out with you.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
I'm so excited. Hold on, I want to get into
Brother's therapy, which could be in a good title for
new album by the way, But you know Brother's therapy.
How what That's interesting? I've never how did that go?

Speaker 6 (24:56):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (24:56):
It's eleven? Eleven means not?

Speaker 6 (25:00):
He was good.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
I mean, here was a thing we kind of we
were like really at it like we couldn't even there
was a moment we literally could not be in the
same room with each other without.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
One from a creative place. It did start with a
from a creative place.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
I think a lot of things creative probably mixed in
with like ship when we were five. I don't know,
but like the one thing that was really interesting though
we're talk going too far into it, and hearers out
of everyone listening to this.

Speaker 6 (25:24):
Is we were pissed.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
And when we sat down with the therapist, he was like, man,
he's like, this is awesome. And I was like, what
do you mean this is awesome? Like we couldn't angry
and he was like, well, he's like, you guys are
so pissed off because you care so much. Like if
you all came in here and you were apathetic and
you didn't care at all, He's like, that would be
a huge problem and really challenging the picks. He said,

(25:46):
you guys, really, the reason why you're fighting with each
other is because you guys love each other so much.

Speaker 6 (25:51):
Like, damn, that's some Jedi mind. What the hell was that?
I do?

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Kind of like you know now, I do a lot
of times, not always we could we still get into it.
Believe me, I do. There are moments to be like,
you know what, Okay, we're getting, We're get this is
getting like we're button heads because we care.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Was hold on, take me back to the moment of
who was the one who said, you know what, brother,
I think we should go to a couple's therapy, Like
who said that?

Speaker 6 (26:19):
Who?

Speaker 5 (26:19):
And I'm not sure I know at the time I
was doing their manager.

Speaker 6 (26:27):
On the wall. They're like, well, sixteen percent of zero
is zero, So.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (26:35):
At the time, I was already doing a lot of therapy.
I've been very open about my mental health and stuff
like that. I have dealt with anxiety and I leap
and bounces be really really great.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Me too, Me too, me too. I'm on lepro so.

Speaker 6 (26:46):
Oh really, I'm on Symbalta so like it works. It's
been amazing.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Well, my antidepressant is better than your so funk off yeah.

Speaker 6 (26:58):
Thinking.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
You're better than mine.

Speaker 6 (27:07):
And anyway, So but I was.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
I did a lot of work and it was really
really helpful. So and there's a really great thing in
Nashville called Porter's Call, who who help a lot of
musicians and artists for free and it's funded by artists
in Nashville because you know, when you're up, you're just
you're struggling, and you can't afford the time of the
money to deal with mental health. So there was a

(27:29):
guy there that I had known for a long time
and he I just knew he was always really great.
And that's who we met with, this guy named cha
He is a godsend in the mental health community of Nashville,
and it was really really great. Of course I left
there being like, he didn't tell my brother he was
wrong one time. Show When you really do think about it,

(27:49):
it's like, he's right. Our intentions are the same, we
want it to be great. And then you know, so
you guys look like amazing siblings and you truly do
love each other, but there aren't moments of where it rubs.

Speaker 6 (28:00):
Right.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
Well, just imagine that you're pursuing a good music career together.
That rub just happens a lot and and a lot
of times. It stems from just lack of honest communication.
And that allowed us to be just a little bit.

Speaker 6 (28:16):
More forthcoming with how you feel. And that's been a
huge help.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
That's so great.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Was it a vulnerability issue, meaning like being able to
be truly vulnerable with each other beyond just making music
and with your feelings and say, hey, you know this
is how.

Speaker 6 (28:30):
But you know you actually you touched this a little
bit earlier. I agree. I agree with you.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
It seems like this, Oh it's like like poofy like
way of dealing with it. But the actual when you
do just say like, hey, it is you do it
doesn't make me feel this way.

Speaker 6 (28:44):
Yeah, it's not the reason why.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
I mean, at least for me that does work very well,
is it's not accusing them of doing something. It could
be on me that I feel this way. Yes, how
I'm feeling and it maybe totally irrational.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Well buddy, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Speaker 6 (29:01):
That made me feel so good.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Okay, get anyhow, without going on on about it, we
highly recommend just for anyone individually.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
No, I love this stuff. I think it's important. I mean,
I talk about it all the time. We've actually wanted
to do it with our whole family. God opportunity to
do that, that's that would be a lot of work,
but I imagine that.

Speaker 6 (29:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
But at the same time, I feel like it's it's
kind of more scary than it is because it is
going to be hard work, but I feel like the
outcome of it, it seems like it would be really
I don't know, it's like any a roller.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Coaster, Isn't it amazing?

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Though?

Speaker 3 (29:41):
The freedom there is in just like.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Being okay to allow someone to just be who they are.

Speaker 6 (29:49):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
That's like without without carrying any personalization or without taking
it on, just to just kind of be like it's
it's okay.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
Well, I really have to do that with my parents,
you know, like because look, they're not during their seventies,
they're not changing, you know, like it's like, okay, mom.

Speaker 6 (30:10):
That is so not something we say anymore. But you know,
we're I'll have a ton of time left here.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, you do, and you realize like also like I think,
like I really, I'm a big believer in the three
generational households. And we grew up in a three generational household,
so we had Grandma and we had mom, and you know,
so we you know, we grew up with Grandma down
in the kitchen every morning, and and their stories, their

(30:47):
way of living, their perspective is so different from ours.
But then it's so important to understand it. Whether you like,
whether you agree with it or not, whether it's like
to have like a wife. There's so much wisdom in it,
whether it's something to change or whether it's something to
continue on.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
You know.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
Yeah, but I think that's only I think that's an
amazing perspective to have. But that's only something you realize
when you grow up and mature. You know, as a kid,
you'll get me the hell out of here. This is crazy,
and you know, then you grew up and realize actually
how formidable and important those things are. I think one
of the weirdest things growing up and becoming an adult
is when you realize that your parents are just people

(31:30):
and not parents. You know, when you're a kid, you think, oh,
this is my mom and dad. They're superheroes, they can
do anything. And then you realize, oh, they're just people
just trying to figure shit out. It's not an awakening.
And then you can really start to respect them as
the people they are versus having.

Speaker 6 (31:45):
To respect them as parents.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
And the same thing goes for anyone, like you know,
a grandmother or a grandfather. When we were kids, like
I said, we lived in a duplex and our dad's
mom lived next door with our uncle and their kids.
So that was the three generational thing. And she was
just a she was a bad bitch, man.

Speaker 6 (32:03):
She was tough.

Speaker 5 (32:04):
She smoke like all the time, she drank michelob heavy
like all day, played cards, watched she was a huge
fan of the Washington Redskins.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Oh my god, I'm like a marriage Washington Redskins.

Speaker 6 (32:18):
A bad bitch.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
And when you're around that as a kid growing up,
you realize like, oh man, that's that's like, there's there.
That's a type of tough that you have to kind
of witness at that age.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (32:31):
Every everyone's grandparents had these.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
It was like really huge, random like orkard spoon that
was made out of wood.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
That's so funny. Yes, I know exactly what you're talking.

Speaker 6 (32:49):
But every time, man, she would grab that big ass
spoon and we were like, she would whip your ass.
Yeah yeah, But she grew up tough.

Speaker 5 (32:59):
And this goes to your point, Kate, that being subjected
to those those different generations allows you the perspective that
you need because even just the fact that our great
our grandparents and great grandparents lived in times of actual war,
you know, and it just changes you and how you
are and how you're raised and they passed that down.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, And I also think that's why history too is
so important. But knowing your own history, like it is
a part of like who you. You wonder like where
do I get my grit? Like where does that.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Really come from? You know? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:34):
But also like I we drive to Colorado all the time,
and this last time I drove, I just had this
this like thing about America where it's like, we're so
fucking crazy that we decided in order for a better
life to drop everything we have and risk risk traveling
hundreds of miles with wagons and horses to like for

(33:59):
our half of our family to perish for a for
a bet, for more, and they're still doing.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah. It's just it's it's it's it's it's just.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
It's amazing to know, you know how, And that wasn't
that long ago, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
My semi semi recently just finished a book called Undaunted Courage,
which is about Lewis and Clark, and it's a fucking
thousand page but their entire expedition and how it's incredible.
I mean, it's just unbelievable read really amazing.

Speaker 5 (34:29):
All the things that had to go right in order
for that to happen.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, you know it.

Speaker 5 (34:34):
You know, it's so much of it is happenstance. It's
just kind of all happened. And then you know it's
like you go and your parents, your parents, parents, their
parents parents to keep going back. I mean, you remember
playing Oregon Trail as a kid. I just feel like
dysentery was fucking everywhere everyone's you know, and so your
ancestors is just like I just kind of avoided dysentery
and and you know, like they're having plagues throughout history

(34:58):
and it's just war like You've managed to make it
through all that. Your your history has brought you here.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
And I think too, like why we're so fascinated with
the family dynamic is like that informs every choice you make.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Like and the person you're sitting next to you, your bro,
and the person that you know couldn't make it here
today to my house, my bro is like a.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Huge part of what.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Will inform generations to come.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Of course, of course, but there's patterns that need to
be you know, admired and broken. You know what I'm saying.
And I think that you know, and I've done a
ton of work on myself as well, and I think
that you know, there are certain moments where you look
at your past and say, I'm not going to be that,
and then there are certain things that you want to emulate.
But I also think that there needs to be some

(35:48):
compassion and forgiveness in the people who have created bad patterns,
because if you go back one more generation, you realize
where the fuck they came from.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
Exactly, total, exactly, And that's a really good point because
you have to realize that we have the luxury of
being able to take the time to fix those things.
You go back a generation or two or three, they
didn't have that time, I mean euro Or you look
at the Great Depression. Yeah, you look at just you know,
the Vietnam era, the civil rights hear, all these things.

(36:19):
I mean, people still kind of are just like trying
to make ends me and lucky that we are in
a place where we're afforded just the time and also
the resources to change those things, and those will have
impact the impact.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Well not only that, but just a deeper recognition about
the human condition and mental health and understanding that these
are things that needs to be that need to be
tackled you know, when my dad's dad bailed on him,
my dad had no tools, there was no there was
no therapist. There was no one saying, hey, Billy, you
know you need to we need to get through this.

(36:53):
You know what I'm saying, Like that just didn't fucking
happen back then. So you're gonna repeat people.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
Go, who's your therapist? That's a converse, and you're like,
this is amazing that people ask that. When we were kids,
that was something you just don't talk about.

Speaker 4 (37:06):
I mean, and probably the biggest problem now is it's
I mean it is therapy is just sadly a luxury.
I mean, there's just most people could never afford it.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, Well, how has it changed your writing?

Speaker 6 (37:19):
Like therapy? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Do you think like being more in like do you
think like, well.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
It's kind of changed their news. It's their new albums
called Brothers Therapy, and the first single is Patterns.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
I mean it's perfect, No, But I mean do you
think like the more do you think, like do you
find that like because I find that sometimes a lot
of artists need to live in a more chaotic type
of state to access a certain type of writing.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
There is there certainly is that but it's not that
you haven't lived it. You know, it's always a lived
experience that you have. And as many much so I
would like to forget certain things you can't and you
can always access that, and I think accessing it is
actually quite healthy, and writing about it becomes quite cathartic,
and it's just that becomes another form of therapy. Talking

(38:12):
about like we're doing is another form of therapy. So
it all, it's all something that is still a part
of you. Even if you're in a better place, you
can still access those things if you're willing to.

Speaker 6 (38:22):
Yeah, I mean that's the thing.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
Just having the confidence, I think, to be able to
go somewhere that may be vulnerable or might make you
feel like like weak or something. You know, I think
you kind of get to a point in your life
where you do have a lot of strength in your
and your weaknesses and acknowledging them. And you know, as
far as writing is in that regard, I mean, or
creating anything, you don't want any guard rails, you don't
there's not like you don't want any area you can access.

Speaker 6 (38:44):
Yeah, So I feel.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Like that is really something that the luxury that we
have later in our lives now where it doesn't seem
like there really isn't anywhere we can't go if we
want to.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
When did you start making music together as adults? Like
you you both had solar careers, right, yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:03):
Yeah, so and a brief synopsis of how it happened.
I came down to Nashville first. He came down to
Nashville not long after that. I was going to school
here at Belmont and he was like kind of living
in my dorm room at Belmont. He was also sixteen.
Just telling everyone that he was. I said he had
a little voice at nine. So at the time was

(39:24):
and so yeah and then sounded like.

Speaker 6 (39:38):
Sounded like.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
Yeah uh but yeah. So I was in a separate band.
That's in this band. That's how I ended up writing
with your uncle Mark. First side project, t J was
signed to the same publishing company. We were writing a
lot of songs for the band that I was in.
The band fell and disbanded. At the time, he was

(40:04):
getting some notoriety in town. We started playing shows together.
People thought that we were doing the duo thing, but
we hadn't discussed it, and people kept showing up being like,
we love that you guys are finally doing a band together,
but we're not doing the.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Band, which you know, it's the slight sidebar, but it's
still relevant. Is our mom ever since the beginning she
wanted her children in a band together?

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Of course, Yeah, I mean that's gonna be every parent's dream, like.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
But there's no way you could listen to your mom,
you know, yeah, I'm not doing that, like you, I
don't know what you're talking about. And yeah, I was
doing these solo shows, but I would always have him
play guitar because he was, you know, badass. And then
when we would finish, everyone would always be like, you
guys together, not really acknowledging that there was it wasn't

(40:54):
a duo, but they would always talk about it like
it was, and we were like, man, maybe it is
supposed to be this. And then honestly to you know,
a total lesson in admitting you're wrong and your mom's right.

Speaker 6 (41:07):
Is that we.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Uh we as soon as we joined like the duo thing,
and everything just started like happening, like falling in place
really fast.

Speaker 6 (41:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Yeah, what was your first moment of like like note,
like like real noticeable, like after a show or maybe
a meeting or something like like, oh, like where you're like, oh,
we're we're in this, like this is happening kind of.

Speaker 5 (41:36):
I mean near the time where we got signed to
our publishing deal together again, there's a lot of buzz.
He was signing with this publisher and town named Kelly King,
and then they were hashing out a deal and we
were doing so much stuff together that they were like, hey,
we kind of we want to sign you both. So
the business in a way was already kind of pushing

(41:57):
us together. We weren't fighting it because we played together
since we were it didn't seem like something that we
had to think about. And at that point it was like, okay,
once you put pen and paper and ink and contracts
and lawyers and ship, so then it feels really you know,
it felt like a marriage in a well in a way,
and and then that's when we were like, okay, we
we fully fully committed to that, and it was off

(42:20):
to the races ever since. It's obviously it's something that
we should have listened to when we were much younger,
but in a way, I wouldn't have changed a thing.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Well, her original idea, I will say, is she she
would say, uh, you say, I'm TJ Osborne and he'll say,
and it was all supposed to be our sister in there,
and she will say, I'm Natalie Osborne and we're the siblings.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Oh no, little yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Like we love you, mom, but.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Like great pitch, great pitch.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
When when you write, do you write you write with
other artists as well?

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Do you always do it together? Do you ever separate
and write with artists?

Speaker 5 (43:08):
We initially wrote a lot together, but lately, just because
we don't have time we write, we've been writing a
lot separately and it's been going well.

Speaker 6 (43:14):
It's been.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
It's been interesting because you know, obviously we have different
influences and things we want.

Speaker 6 (43:19):
To say, and there has been this.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
The strangest thing of it all is that for this
project we've actually written a part for the majority of it.
We've always written together previously, and I feel like somehow
it's like, so far, the most us sounding music we've
ever made.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
It's interesting.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
We've been kind of always musically all over the place,
a little like and not necessarily want to be. We
just like so many different types of music. There might
be one country leaning when it feels like more soul
or whatever. But this is oddly the most like focused
sounding music we've ever done, or not we're writing it separately,
which is I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Wow, No, But when you say you're writing it separately,
are you writing it with other writers or just just
you guys.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
Yeah, sometimes we write with you know, like one of
the songs on this album, like I wrote by myself.
I will do that kind of thing, but we have.
There are certain writers in town that we've written have
written with for so long that they just know us.
You know, writing with someone for the first time is fun,
but it's just a little awkward.

Speaker 6 (44:19):
You have to get to know them. They're learning you.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
It's just a kind of a blind date. These writers
that we write with normally, we've written with for over
a decade, and there's no wondering what we're about. They
know what we're about and they've written. There's one in particular,
this guy named Lee Thomas Miller is one of our
favorite writers in the world. He just know, he knows
everything about us, We know everything about him. He might
as well be a family member at this point, and

(44:42):
so when we're writing separately, he's almost like the third
brother or the third Beatle, and it just works. And
I think building those relationships over time has been very helpful.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Well, when you when you're writing together the when you're
writing separately. I mean, is there a concept that you
have in mind for the album towards like, well, here's
kind of conceptually where we're at.

Speaker 6 (45:04):
It's a great question.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
Is actually probably points to why I think has been
so focused is we've kind of have made a bit
of like a return to where we started, like a
little bit musically and also just the direction. I mean
when we first started off, I mean we were just
kind of leaving our hometowns, like we were going to bigger,
better things in our minds, and then we've kind of

(45:27):
like have come full circle and we're like, you know,
we love where we're from and it was a huge
influence on us, and the people around us were a
huge influence on us, and we've kind of returned to the.

Speaker 6 (45:37):
Influence of that.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
So really kind of all you can kind of trace back.
Some of them are specific, some of them are a
little bit more ambiguous, but it is a very family,
small town focused to It kind of goes back to that,
like you know what our dad was, you know, a

(45:58):
self employed plumber or mom was like a contracted uh, hairdresser,
and so there was this thread within us even still
for us, we even though we're doing music, it is
we're still like these kind of sole proprietors or whatever
and kind of this you know, trap it up by
your bootstraps and get it done kind of songs. And

(46:21):
so it feels very focused in that way, which is
probably you know too. I'm glad you asked that, because
I think that has a lot to do with why
it is sounding a certain way, because we are very
focused on what we.

Speaker 6 (46:32):
Want it to be.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Let me guess the title and crab cake close we
have it.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
We have crabs, but we have crabs.

Speaker 6 (46:46):
That would be that would be an amazing if you
could still do hidden tracks.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Well, you can create a separate genre called crabcake country
that's actually really good, very crabcake country. It's like it's
sort of a subgenre of country music, Maryland country country.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
So TJ, I can't we have I have to tap
on this because it's such a huge I mean, it's
a very admirable you're coming out, you know, in country music.
You were like the first you know, country music sort
of sort of signed country music to a major label

(47:34):
to come out as gay.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
Did what what?

Speaker 1 (47:40):
And I just wonder like how, I just want to
I like, how did that? Was it just like a
no brainer you just had to do it? Or was
it like was it really heart challenging for you? Were
you scared?

Speaker 3 (47:55):
I have so many questions.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Yeah, I mean I could talk with this for a
long time, but I mean I guess you know. Yeah,
So I was really fearful. I knew I always wanted
to come out. In fact, John had referenced earlier where
we sat down and signed the contract together and before
that happened, I actually came out to him then, like
before we are like contractually bound to one another, you

(48:18):
need to know that I'm gay.

Speaker 6 (48:19):
And it was really sweet. He's like, you know, he knew,
and we had a very emotional moment.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
But I was like, I don't intend on staying closet forever,
Like I have to do this now. My kind of
goal the whole time was like I wanted to have
success and kind of do it at the height of
our career. And then it was like, well, how the hell.

Speaker 6 (48:41):
Do you know? You're at the height of your career.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
You don't know what to down And so I was like, well,
you know, the whole thing of what I didn't want
to have. The biggest thing that was the hardest for
me actually was emotionally. I was at peace with myself
for the most part. My family close, the people that
needed to know new I had had relationships. I had
come to peace with myself. It was the fact that

(49:05):
I just didn't want it to really look opportunistic. But
the problem is there's always something to promote. There's like
an album we just released, or there's a tour about
to happen, or a single will be just put out
or and so it was really really challenging to figure
out when that space happened. And honestly, Covid really made

(49:25):
that room for me. And in that moment, there was
no touring, We'd put out an album already and we
weren't going to release one for a while, and I'm like,
this is the best window of opportunity I'm probably ever
going to have. And it was like, let's just take
a leap of faith and do this. And I will
say I think probably what people you use the word

(49:47):
having the courage or whatever, but what really gave it
to me wasn't innate. It was actually the people around me,
like John my manager, people that had something about really
something to lose themselves who didn't have one even well, what, well,
maybe you should wait till it was Everyone was just like,
we got you, we love it, and you know, it

(50:08):
was time. And so when it happened, it was also
it was just it was there was so many things
that that were going on and about it. But I
tell you it was really weird. It's some of the
articles written. I wasn't I wasn't allowed to see it
until it was released. It was came out through Time
magazine and they were like, you can't see the pictures,
you can't see anything because you and I was like,

(50:29):
And so then they were like, well, this article is
going to go live and no one They're like, I
think it will go live tomorrow.

Speaker 6 (50:35):
But if we were in the middle of.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
The election, which was another thing of do I want
to come out in the middle of this, We're like, well,
if there's some bombastic news between Biden and Trump, we're
already get bumped out for that obviously, And so I
was like, which, by the way, that was happening every week,
So I was like, what is this going to happen
or not?

Speaker 6 (50:52):
So when the article came live, I was like.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
My manager was like, it just She's like, it just
went went up, and I was like, I felt like
literally the errors.

Speaker 6 (51:02):
Was like.

Speaker 4 (51:04):
And then my phone was blowing up and I'm reading
the article and I'm like crying and I'm laughing, and
it was like this thing that I did not expect
to have in that moment. I kind of originally I
just wanted to do it and not talk about it
and just get on with my life. Like I felt
totally different the minute it happened. I was like, no,

(51:26):
I want to talk about this, for it's not visibility
if I don't. And secondly, you know, in that article
Sam Lanski wrote and I came to not Sam through
Jason Owen, manager and Sam it was the simplest thing,
the most simplest things are always right here. But I
was like, you know, it's just a small part of
me that I'm gay. It's not like you know, who cares.

(51:49):
And he was like, well what if it isn't Like
what if it's actually the biggest part of you? And
I was like, I never I think I minimized it
so much like it yeah, And I'm like, well it
is it is a huge part of me, you know,
And I minimized this about me just to feel better
about it.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
It must have felt like you finally got like your
first biggest breath of air, but like in terms of
like you know, like a huge weight being lifted off,
but all of that emotion, but finally, like you say,
like being able to actually be able to just talk
about it.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Yeah, and you don't reference it actually into an earlier
thing you talked about. But I didn't want to go
up get in the weeds with this, at at least
in reference to whatever we were speaking about at the moment.
But is we were talking about just kind of places
you go creatively, and I felt like it was really
stifling to me creatively when I would write, because there
were so many topics I would avoid because I didn't

(52:47):
want to make questions about it, like I would know.
All of our music for the most part, it's always
been kind of non binary because of that, which actually
ended up being a beautiful byproduct of our music. Is
that way so kind of a lot of people can
see themselves the narratives narrative, but I, you know, in
that regard, I was like, holy cow, like being on

(53:09):
stage I was. I never realized I was having these
like micromanaging moments in my mind and split seconds where
I may not do a gesture that I thought might
be perceived as unmasculine or something. You know, These aren't
things I was conscious of until I didn't have to
do it anymore, and I was like, holy shit, Like
I could go out on stage.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
And I wanted to do Did you get any negative
sort of feedback or haters or just you know, assholes? Essentially, no, yes,
and no.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
We had kind of because we knew we wanted we
wanted to do this from kind of jump. We had
really slowly like curating a fan base that we knew
would probably be pretty accepting of it. Or our first
big hit was Stay a Little Longer God. And I
look back now like the balls we had, like we
we in context now this doesn't seem that crazy, but

(54:00):
then there was We had like a couple in there,
an interracial couple in there, and all these things that
now seem kind of like who cares, But at the
time it fucking pissed people. So they didn't want to
kill literally wanted to kill us. Really, yeah, we had
like death threats and so I was like, well, do
you think that's crazy?

Speaker 6 (54:16):
Give it?

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Give it?

Speaker 6 (54:22):
Uh, and so in the house.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
So by the time we kind of got here, I
don't think it was necessarily like you know, we kind
of were okay with shedding some of.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Those yeah early on that we knew were yeah yeah.

Speaker 6 (54:33):
So yes.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
However, you know, there's a lot of people that are
going to hate anyways. I mean, you guys, I'm sure
know this as well as anyone. And we get asked
all the time like when did you guys first feel
like you were successful? And we always say like when
we got haters, when people started talking shit, like we're
doing something in habitably. People are always saying something mean
or making something about whatever.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
But the country music community at large is very receptive.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Extremely so. And in fact, people that I didn't even expect,
some of the more conservative artists, yeah, who were really
super super cool with me. And it's been Yeah, it's
been quite a wonderful experience.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Yeah, I think it's amazing and and and and there's
you know, I I know like in certain parts, like
the four Corners of the US, you know, certain things
have been more acceptable at times, but like you're that
that that there's certain moves that people make that like
open you open the floodgate for a lot of different

(55:35):
artists and so done that.

Speaker 6 (55:37):
I've seen a lot of gay country artists.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
It's just amazing.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
Yeah, and now you did. There's quite a few in
the Nashville and I don't think they would have had
that ye courage without him doing with It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Certainly encouraged me that I had seen at the time,
you know, like a very well known uh like radio
personality and and CMT liked the Island had came out
not that long ago, and it was super encouraging. And
then artist songwriters, I'm sure you've probably written with Kate
or like seeing like Shane McAnally.

Speaker 6 (56:07):
And people who were who are figures.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
From like kind of the underbelly of Nashville that had
become like really well known and just had these very
seamless lives and you know, and there is and there
tends to always be this kind of thing where people
it was like the first, like he was the first,
you know, the whatever category of this person to ever
do this, and some people have gotten twisted about that,

(56:32):
and I feel like it's it's a little it kind
of is distracting from what real narrative is. To me,
I don't really To me, it was like not about
being the last, you know, I don't really give a
ship whether I was the first or the fourth, or
the eighth or whatever.

Speaker 6 (56:47):
I just believe.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
And you know, me and and our family friend Fancy,
who's openly gay, amazing artists.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
I love that name that I always named my daughter Fancy.
Well I did Fancy Fuji Cow and everybody's like, you're nuts,
and I'm like, I.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Love that name.

Speaker 6 (57:07):
Pretty amazing. I think he named himself in this instance.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
But however, I you know, I think was this kind
of he had mentioned this, and I think it's right
spot on. Is this is just to get to a
place of where it's just not even doesn't even need
to be mentioned. Say to me, they're like, who cares?

(57:32):
Stop talking about it? No one cares. And I'm like, sweetie,
I wish they didn't. For the world that wished it
was not a thing to me, believe.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Do you have you had other artists confide in you
about their sexuality and ask you so does I'm not
ready to do this yet, but how did you do it?
And you know anything like that? Yeah, I mean there
has been obviously not outing outing people, of course not,
but I'm just saying just generally.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
I think there has mostly what I've gotten as people
that have been like hey, thanks, like like it's mostly
from the fans, like not even artists or people who
were like, you know, I've always loved country but always
felt uncomfortable being at the shows or like I never
really that makes me feel so good, like people can
have someone that makes them, you know, I've had a
couple of people who were like who did come out

(58:34):
that posts were like, you know, you were one of
the people that helped encourage me, and that is that
means more than any of them with our careers, I
mean just in music in general, it's like being able
to have an impact on someone's life and a positive
effect is just always I mean, it's really it's the
you originally want to go and be like, oh I
want to be successful and I want to you know

(58:56):
kind of like man, when these when those things happen,
you realize, holy shit, that's really what it's about.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
What an amazing thing to also like you know, you're
again it's it's like there's nothing there's there's nothing self serving.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
About the need for you and the thing.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
For you to have to just be open with you
who you are, transparent, like just like that freedom, but
not to know the kind of impact that it actually
would made would have made on others. You know. It's
like that that is the purest form of like how
to really make a difference for people is when it's
just coming from the most honest place of like you

(59:35):
weren't even thinking the kind of impact it could have made.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
You know, That's what some people are like, that's amazing,
and that's there's some part of me that actually it's
like it does almost feel a little more selfish.

Speaker 6 (59:45):
I mean I had to like right for me like
I was.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
And the other thing that was really tore me up
is people that were around me who felt like they
had was like their cross to bear, and I'm like, guys,
like there was someone who accidentally out of me once
and he came to me. He was like he was
I feel horrible. I thought this person knew and I'm like, brother,
like it's fine, Like you don't have to lose a
second of sleep. You shouldn't, like it's not you know,

(01:00:11):
if you've done it in malice, I would probably be.
I was like, you know what, this is bullshit that
you know we're close John and I we have always
been very like who we.

Speaker 6 (01:00:21):
Are, unabashedly uh. And you know, I felt.

Speaker 4 (01:00:25):
Like this one thing is just like really it's conflicting
with like just who we are, you know, and and
it was just time.

Speaker 6 (01:00:33):
I was like, this has to happen.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
And you know again, I feel like it has made
the bond stronger with those around me. Some people that
maybe didn't felt like they didn't really know me very
well because I kept my distance for for this reason
and man like the right relationship has gotten better. But
I think the biggest thing is honestly with our fans.
I feel like my relationship with them has gotten like

(01:00:56):
so honest and it's really brought like a closeness I
feel like, which I was hiding from so much. I
did not want to get close to a lot of
people that I didn't trust. Yeah, it's like pretty pretty
bad to see.

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
Their support was amazing coming out and support of TJ,
and it felt it was it made our relationship so
much stronger. And you have a love and appreciation for
them already because they're taking the time out of their
lives and spending money to come see you. But that
felt like so so purposeful and honest and sincere, and

(01:01:30):
that was just an amazing moment to witness.

Speaker 6 (01:01:32):
And our mom finally accepted that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
She you know, for the longest time, she was like
she when I first came out to her, she said,
I said, you know, I told her.

Speaker 6 (01:01:39):
She goes, oh, no, you're not. I'm like, oh, you're not.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
And then she was like, well is your sister guy?
I'm like, hell, you know, like what the help they
seen the way I dressed. There's like, there's no way
that dude. Yet, you know I was I was like,
you know, I was talking someone. I said, it takes
sometimes your parents a lot of time to come around

(01:02:07):
to it. I was like, you know, my mom, it
took her many years to uh, you know, finally come
to terms with it. She's like, you're right, but I
still think you need to be with Miranda Lambert And I.

Speaker 5 (01:02:14):
Was like, I take that back, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
So she was just sort of, you know, in a
bit of denial essentially, but not not angry. She was
more of denial, That's what I'm saying, right, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:02:33):
The first gay man I never saw my life was
like her coworker. I was just like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
This is so much fun. I want to hang out though.

Speaker 6 (01:02:44):
Yeah I don't know, but you do whatever you want.
But I will likely be drinking.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Me too, I'll be drinking, be drinking. It's just about it.
I need a break, and then I need to learn
to mitigate and have my nights where it's wild and crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
I feel like a party is taking a break because
I concidentally have myself.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Yeah, I'm just taking a break because I just needed,
you know, and a reset. I need a reset.

Speaker 6 (01:03:09):
Approved to myself that I do actually have control.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Yeah, oh.

Speaker 6 (01:03:14):
A million.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
By the way, these ten days, it's going to be
three weeks and I go to Cabo for a golf tournament.

Speaker 6 (01:03:19):
There we go, I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Will be drinking, which is a disaster.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
Next week for for our uh a soon to be
brother in law's bachelor parties.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
So fun but exactly so it's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
I just well, we we have to. I have to
get to Nashville. Maybe I will get Allie out there.
We can do like some sibling revelry.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I lived there for the show Nashville for two years.
I was honest, I just live right near Belmont. I
live right just down the street from Belmont.

Speaker 6 (01:03:47):
Actually live over there for like fifteen years. It's the best.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Well, we should make a week shone building. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
You were in Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
I lived there, the Gladstone building, you know, near a
bell meat Ish.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
You know, I think that was my favorite thing you've
done is Nashville. I loved that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
That's great.

Speaker 5 (01:04:07):
So I'm convinced that show is partly the reason, actually,
I think a big reason why Nashville as a city
has blown the fuck up. I knew about Nashville, but
once they saw like they got a window into it.

Speaker 6 (01:04:21):
Yeah, the city has changed, right. Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Yeah? Is that wild?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
A wild window a soap opera window of Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
That's right. Oh, you guys are the best.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
We got to end with our question because you're which
is allie?

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
You you ask? It's a two parter. Basically, you're looking
at your brother and what is that thing that you
would love to emulate, something that he has that you
wish that you had.

Speaker 6 (01:04:49):
And then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
And then the flip of that is the flip of
that is what would you what would you want to
alleviate from your brother something that you know, if you
could take away, their life would be better.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
I would say John is very patient, except for when
we're both in patient drivers. But outside of that, John
has a lot of patience. It is one of my
weakest qualities. I wish I had it, but I don't.
And alleviate from him, I would say one of my
strengths is actually I don't really get that like stressed

(01:05:23):
or hold that much anxiety for whatever reason.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
So that anxiety, that's right, I guess.

Speaker 5 (01:05:30):
I will say my brother is a very bold, brave,
strong person, even aside from coming out.

Speaker 6 (01:05:38):
Of a country artists. It's kind of his his nature.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
A lot of time meetings, he'll well I go for
the juggular and I'm like, hell, yeah, that's not kind
of my nature.

Speaker 6 (01:05:45):
And it's really great to have that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:48):
And also his big muscles, probably.

Speaker 6 (01:05:53):
His lack of iciens.

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
Becauseily like, oh my god, that's I know. I kind
of it does trouble him as well as it doesn't
around him does trouble him, but you know, more just
the kind of life, the white knuckling side of things,
and you know, and that as well, So I would
you know, just maybe just a little bit of a
maybe I should give him one of my my s
SR of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Course that's good. Or oh, you guys are the best.
This was fun, boys, This is a blessing, so much fun.
I would love to so fun. Yeah, we'd have a
great time, no doubt.

Speaker 6 (01:06:30):
You guys are so busy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, you guys, this is great.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Thanks for coming on. Bye guys.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Ooh gouy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
They're the best.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
We need to hang out there so many people, no,
but but we will hang out with them because they're
close with you know, the sort of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Inner circle of Yeah, that's true. Team.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
But they're so great and what a wonderful, wonderful spirits
and energy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
And I love fun, so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
I I love everybody that we talked to. But then
every once in a while, there's just the people that
feel like you came from the same like you could
we came from such different backgrounds but cut from a
similar cloth.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yes, yes, you know. You immediately feel like with them,
completely comfortable. I feel like I could say absolutely anything,
which of course I did, And it's just I love that.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
And I also think it goes back to what we're
talking about when it comes to like how you were,
how you like your your your family history. Yeah, and
you obviously like they had some you know, people in
their history that had real, you know, wild hairs up there, heinee,
and so did we. A lot of wild hairs, a lot,

(01:07:48):
And out of that comes a certain type of energy,
you know exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
That's the meshing of those two energies. It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
I love you, yeah, mhm