June 22, 2023 • 26 mins
“In the heart of every Haitian is a sleeping president.” - An interview with Jacqueline Charles, Caribbean correspondent for the Miami Herald, about the 2021 assassination of President Jovenel Moise.
Like what you hear? Follow us @kscope_nyc on Twitter and Instagram.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This is Silenced. I'm os Vloshan.
It's been twenty years since the story of Verio ended,
A story that stood at a crossroads in Haitian history
where things could have been so different, A story that
beams ear splitting echoes into the Haiti and Miami of today.
(00:38):
In this bonus episode, we closed the gap between the
nineteen nineties and now with a timely interview with a
nauded Caribbean correspondent for the Miami Herald, Jacqueline Charles. She
wrote the definitive piece on the twenty twenty one assassination
of Haitian President juvnal Moiz in the Power of Vacuum.
Since the assassination, Haiti has experienced escalating gang violence, kidnappings
(01:02):
for ransom are on the rise, and refugees are fleeing
the country in large numbers. It's a level of instability
that harkens back to the nineteen nineties. We discussed Jacqueline's
reporting on the presidential assassination and all that's followed, and
we talked about keeping alive the dream of a democratic Haiti.
(01:23):
Here's our conversation. Can you tell us a little bit
about your path to your current job. Really starting is
how you became a journalist and how you came to
have Haiti as your specialty.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I actually got my start as a high school intern,
a fourteen year old high school intern at Miami Herald.
This was a period where you know, Haiti was making
a lot of news as usual. Some of my colleagues
in the newsroom, one in particular, Peter Bosh, was a
photographer who would go out to Haiti a lot, and
he had friends in Haiti. After when he's calling them
to try to check on them, and then he would
(02:02):
get the maid and so he didn't speak Creole, so
he would actually ask me if I could translate for him.
So that's really how I guess you can say, I
sort of got started just kind of translating, you know,
helping someone out. And after I decided that I was
going to be a journalist because I really wanted to
be a doctor, I started to think about, you know,
(02:25):
what I wanted to focus on, what I want my
specialty to be. And being of Haitian descent, being from
the Caribbean, being raised by a Haitian mother and a
Cuban American stepfather, I really saw myself as being in
a unique position to really educate people about this region
and about these countries. It's not just about sun and surf.
(02:48):
It's not just about you know, crises and dictatorships and communism,
but that they're so layered and so textured.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That period in the in the early nineties, the kind
of Aris Steed coup period, was also a period of
enormous migration by boat to South Florida. And when we
met last year in Miami, you used the phrase back
to the future to compare the situation at least as
of a year ago, to the situation in the early nineties.
I'm wondering about that phrase back to the future and
(03:18):
what it meant to you.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
When we met. You know, that was a period where
we were seeing the largest Haitian boat migration crisis in
almost twenty years. We're still seeing reports of overloaded boats,
you know, either off the coast of Cuba or off
the coast of the Bahamas. We've seen thousands of Haitians.
The US Coast Guard is out in patrol, so they've
managed to stop some of these boats, you know, before
they even get through the Florida Straits. What you see consistently,
(03:44):
is that when Haiti is in crisis, boat migration goes up,
Maritime migration goes up. So when I say back to
the future, is that once again we're looking at a
country that is in political turmoil, economic, social turmoil. This
is unprecedented in terms of of the gang violence and
the kidnappings. You have an entire capital of Quota Prince
(04:04):
almost under gang rule and you see people reacting with
their feet. So you also have parallel to that, journalists
who are being forced to flee Haiti because their lives
are in danger. You have a number of journalists who
have been forced out at Haiti. They've had to seek
refuge either in the Dominican Republic or here in the
(04:26):
United States because they have been the targets of attempted assassinations, kidnappings,
or kidnapped. When you start to lose your best journalists
or just journalists in general, who are doing good work,
not merchandising but actually informing people, where does that leave
(04:48):
a population? And that is the concern that when I
talk about back to the future, is that you have
this unsolved murder in Miami of these journalists in a
chaotic period of Haiti, and today while we have this trail,
you know, Jean Dominique, Bringo Lindor, you know, and others
(05:11):
in Haiti whose murders remain unsolved. My fear is that
we are going to be adding to that list.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
This is the month of the anniversary of the assassination
of Jean Dominique. We spoke to Michelle Montasse at length.
We'll get to the story your reporting and Noyes, But
those two cases and these radio broadcasters in little Haiti
in the early nineties, the abiding theme is impunity and
killer is not being brought to justice, and I wonder
(05:39):
both why that is and what the consequences of that is.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, I think you're seeing the consequences of the impunity
in Haiti. You're seeing it today in the current reality
of what's happening in this country. It's on a very
dangerous downward spiral, escalating gang violence. You know, in kidnappings
the United Nations last year that on average, you know,
one person was kidnapped every six hours. You mentioned gen Dominique,
(06:07):
and twenty three years later, his killers have not been
brought to justice. One of the judges who had led
that investigation, Claude Gasson died last year on the mysterious circumstances.
Another key witness in the Gen Dominique case was assassinated,
you know, in Haiti after leaving Miami and going back
(06:30):
to Haiti. So one has to wonder whether or not
there will ever be any sort of resolution. And yes,
this is the most high profile journalists of our time,
and he stands as a symbol of so much and
of how even today the freedom of the press is
under fire, you know in this country.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, a symbol of lost hope. I mean particularly he
was an inspiration to so many, including several of these
radio broadcasters who were murdered in Myais. So there's all
of these strange echoes and parallels. It felt like in
the early nineteen nineties, this this moment of hope and
hope in democracy, that there was almost like a fight
(07:11):
for the future of Haiti happening on the streets of Miami.
How did that fight resolve itself and is it ongoing
or is that a battle of the past.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Now. You also have to remember that the demographics of
the people who were coming to South Florida were essentially
you know, Haitians who were from the north or who
lived from you know, rured areas. These were the peasants,
the farmers, not necessarily folks who you know, are college educated,
(07:40):
but they came and they succeeded, but they were still
focused on Haiti, right Their bags were still packed. Their
dreams were to go back to Haiti and resume their lives.
This is what they were, you know, they were waiting on.
And then of course Eristy gets exiled in this in
this military cool. But then the earthquakes happened. And when
(08:02):
the earthquake happened, we started to see a shift. And
that shift was people were starting to give up on
that idea, that dream that they were going to move
back to Haiti, and all of a sudden, people were
concerned about their local you know, city council and the decisions.
They were increasingly becoming American citizens. This is a city
(08:24):
where we elected the first Haitian American public office anywhere
in the United States. And then their attentions were increasingly
being focused on local issues because there had become so
much disappointment, you know, in Haiti post you know, twenty
ten earthquake. What we saw was the promises of the
(08:46):
billions of dollars that the international community said they would
give didn't materialize, and so in Haiti we saw the
long lines of Haitians who were trying to get to Chile.
In Brazil and in South Florida, we basically saw a
community that just sort of turned their back. I'll continue
to support my family, I'll continue to send my remittances.
But people were like literally unpacking their bags and boxes
(09:08):
and gave up on this idea that I'm going to
move back.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We first met actually in little Haiti. We went to
the Dixie Express Driving School, which is actually where Fritz
Dahor worked as a paralegal and where his partner at
Donosan Pleete ran the driving school. And when we were there,
the Dixie Driving School was still there, and there was
a sign up and you could kind of make out
the phone number and some of the marketing material from
the early nineties. Since we've been reporting on the podcast,
(09:33):
that building has now actually been sold and presumably we'll
be torn down and redeveloped. And so if we'd even
started this story a year later, that very important physical
landmark might not exist anymore. And so, you know, hearing
about how Febrile the atmosphere on the streets was in
Little Haiti in the early nineties and seeing it now
with these shuttered storefronts, can you speak a little bit
(09:56):
about what's happened to Little Haiti and what effect that
may have on the community's kind of ability to pressure
in terms of policy.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The reality is that while Little Haiti was the first
entry point for Haitians coming into South Florida, it is
a community that today has been tentrified. It has changed.
There are very few Haitians who are actually living in
Little Haiti, and those who live in Little Haiti, you know,
few of them actually own their property in Little Haiti.
I mean when Joan Juice was, you know, on the
(10:27):
streets and was pressuring, it was about the fact that
you had Haitian refugees in the United States who were
being targeted for deportation. They did not have legal status,
they were fighting for legal status. Everybody was in the
same boat, so to speak. So it was very easy
to rally people around that. Today it's different. Today you're
(10:51):
dealing with the generation, a younger generation of American born
Haitians who don't know the struggle for immigrants equity. They
don't know the Haitian rights struggle. They don't know what
it's like to be called names or to be targeted
because you were you were Haitian. I remember just recent,
(11:14):
like last year or year before last, I went to
a protest that was organized by Tony Shinin or Vio.
Vio used to be able to bring out, you know,
tens of thousands of people on the streets, and they
were just a few hundred, you know, and most cities
were old guards either or not. These are not necessarily
(11:34):
like young people who were out, you know, who would
be out and protesting for Black Lives matter, who are deciding, well,
I'm going to go to this protest by this organization.
So that's what I think what you're seeing is a
community coming of age. You're seeing assimilation, but you're seeing
also this ongoing strow for identity and to hold on
(11:55):
to that identity and asking itself, well, what should our
next come that be? What should our next fight be?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
More after the break, for people who don't know anything
about the assassination of President jov Nomoise, can you briefly
summarize what happened and what you've learned in your reporting?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So on July seventh, twenty twenty one, anti president of
No Moyes was at home in his private residence. He
was at home with his wife and their two kids
when a group of alleged assassins Columbian mercenaries came in
and allegedly kill him. I say alleged because we are
(12:36):
there's been no trial. Just to take a step back,
I mean, this was a period where jov Nomales was
the target of increased anti government protests. He was ruling
by a decree, meaning there was no functioning parliament to
the lower chamber had been dismissed. There were only ten
senators in office. All of the mayor's local officials had
(12:57):
been appointed by him, even the police chief. We also
came into office, you know, facing money laundering charges, questions
about you know, the elections. The first round actually was
thrown out because of fraud. So he controlled every apparatus
of the country, and he was flexing his muscles. I mean,
he passed an executive order to create sort of the
(13:20):
equivalent of a Haitian cia, and people were up in arms,
you know about this. His critics were accusing him of
trying to be Latin America, and the Caribbean's next dictator.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So after President Moyes was killed, you actually went to
Haiti to cover the assassination, and you found a complex
web of motives and actors that actually led all the
way back to Miami, and in fact, you named the
piece Made in Miami. Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We named this project made in Miami because what became
very clear early on when after I arrived in Haiti
actually the day of the event, was that there were
a number of Haitian Americans which to South Florida, who
were implicated in this. Two of them were actually on
the street outside of the President's house, Vincent Joseph and
(14:09):
James Delage basically saying this is a DEA operation, DA operation.
It was not a DA operation, but basically tried to
use the cover of a US federal agency in order
to pull this off. One of the things that we
did find out is that what was used as a
motivating tool for the former Colombian soldiers who were allegedly
(14:31):
involved in this is that they were told that there
was forty million plus dollars cash inside the president's house.
So this turned into this sort of a weird money heights.
The reason why the plan had switched from kidnapping the
president to killing him was because there was pay dirt.
They were going to get access to this cash and
(14:52):
that they would be able to keep millions of dollars
in this cash and then turn over some of it
to the new team that was going to be governing. Hey.
In Mayesa's absence, four of the suspects who were jailed
in Haiti. Of the forty plus who've been jailed were
brought to the United States, where they have been charged.
It also includes a former Columbian military official who was
(15:17):
allegedly the co leader of the of the Colombian mercenaries
who've been implicated in this, as well as three Haitian
Americans that I mentioned earlier, two.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Of whom are the current or former US intelligence assets, right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
One guy Joseph Vincident, is a former DA informant. He
was not at the time of the assassination. Rudolph jar
who's also in the United States at one point, was
an informant, you know, for the DA. He's a convicted
drug trafficker. He has since just pled guilty in the
assassination to avoid a trial and to see if he
can get a deal. And then there is a third
(15:52):
gentleman that we at the Miami Hurl broke the story
and at the time of the assassination, he was still
an active fbimant.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
At the time of the assassination of the president of
at one of the assassins, was an active FBI informant, Yes, but.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
That does not mean that the FBI was aware or involved.
As a matter of fact, they have acknowledged in the
charging documents that yes, he was an FBI informant, and
when they learned of his involvement, he was no longer disinformant.
And he did at some point tried to engage the
(16:27):
FBI in some sort of regime change discussion, which they
did not engage in. But they by no way that
this was sanctioned by them, and we have not seen
any evidence to say that it was. You know, I
know that there are people who believe that the United
States knows everything, and there's no way that president was
killed in the US was not aware that this was
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
No, I mean, I've been on the story from day one.
We've done a lot of digging, We've talked to a
lot of people, and there is absolutely nothing in my
reporting or my colleagues who have other great sources elsewhere,
people who don't necessarily need to protect any government agency.
And we have not found any evidence that the United
States had any involvement in this at all. I think
(17:09):
that's one of the problems with impunity is that when
you don't have real investigation to provide people with answers.
You know, there's a lot of assumptions that are always
you know, that are always made right.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
And now the the million dollar question. So, I mean, obviously,
in the early nineties, Aristide was such a figure of
hope for people like Tony and Marlan and Fritz and
Donner and johns Olivier. Hope for a new Haiti, hope
for a Haiti that people could return to that as
you said, people literally had their boxes and suitcases packed.
What happened to that hope and why it didn't work out?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Oh, that is the million dollar question. Why didn't it
work out? I think that, you know, thirty years in
the life of a country is a short time, but
it's a generation and when you've got turmoil, it seems
like it's forever. When you think about the fact that
there are young people today and Haiti who don't know
(18:04):
what a working democracy looks like. You know, they yearn
for a period where they heard that, you know, there
was electricity twenty four to seven and they were baseballs
that were being made. Of course, they don't know the
price of that twenty four hour electricity in those baseballs.
That was during the dictatorship. Things were great and wonderful
as long as you were not in politics. So, you know,
(18:28):
I think with Haiti, when you look at what's happening today,
you're saying, well, what happened in these last thirty some years.
Haitians bear responsibility in some of it, but a lot
of it also is you know, international community and policies.
There are specific policies and decisions that were taken by
the United States and others that one could say, you know,
help this country get to where it is today. And
(18:50):
today what you were seeing is a perfect storm of
all that's wrong, a perfect storm of the billions of
dollars that were put into a judiciary and the system
is still dysfunctioned, so you have impunity. You know, money
that was put into the rebuilding the police force, but
they didn't take it to the next level in terms
of how do you protect it from politicization. How do
(19:13):
you put it sort of on automatic pilot that it
grows itself rather than just crumble at the slightest you know,
attack on its fragility, which is what you're seeing. But
if you talk to you know, the avergation, who is
you know, in danger of being raped or who has
been raped because they've been kidnapped or they've been subjected
to violence. They want the ability to be free, They
(19:36):
want the ability to be secure, to be able to
walk on the street. You know. I was just talking
to a friend of mine just this week and he
was telling me the story of a woman who had
been kidnapped and health for twenty two days, and she
was raped and beaten every one of those days. I mean,
this is the reality that a lot of Haitians are
having to face. So they're not interested in the political
(19:59):
debate or the sovereign debate. They just want help and
they don't care where it's coming from. Yeah, I often
say that, you know, when Haiti should be treated like
a five year old, it gets treated like an eighteen
year old. And when it gets treated like an eighteen
year old, it should get treated like a five year old.
What does that mean meaning that you know there are
times where look, this is the first black republic and
(20:20):
it's a very proud history, and your advergation will like
to think this is a sovereign country. But we can
have a whole college course. What's the definition of sovereignty
and how sovereign are you when you are dependent on
others for aid and for assistance, and when a foreign
government is having to pay partly for your police did
(20:45):
you get to make your own decisions? So you know,
the people, the very people who are criticizing the United
States for putting their hands on the scale are also
the people that are asking the United States to put
their hands on the scale and boot this guy and
put me in. We can't have it both ways, and
I think that that's what it's been. There's been a
contradiction in the message.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Your piece begins with this memorable phrase, in the heart
of every Haitian lies as sleeping president. So I was
curious about how those two things relate to each other.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So you have your averagations. You know, your mother's on
the streets for people who are living in the ghettos
who know that they'll never be president, because that's a
world far away, you know, for a world way from me.
You know, Haiti is a very class based society, right,
so I'm not in that class. But for the people
who are in that class, who either went to the
(21:37):
schools or they walk the circles, are they, you know,
rub shoulders elbows with people in politics? Yeah, every you
know in the heart of vari Haitian is a sleeping president.
This idea that I can run this country. I'm going
to take charge of this country. I can do this.
I think that that's one of the biggest under estimations
that people. You know, that people make and forget that
(21:58):
there are people who are in the bureaucracy of this
country who've been there for decades and are the real
people who are running the show. And that you know,
impunity rains and because impunity reigns, it's very difficult to
get things done, it's very difficult to be a change agent,
and that people flock to those who are in power.
You started this conversation about impunity and act. Why I
keep coming back to it is because you know, the
(22:21):
chaos is because we don't have crime and punishment. This
is a crime, but whereas the punishment and I think
that that lack of a punishment in that concept is
what allows the impunity terrain. How do you get the
averagation to believe in this thing called democracy when it
(22:44):
has failed them. One of the biggest questions in Haiti
has always been who represents um you know, the average Haitian,
the people who are you know, in the city solets,
in the lass aleins Ru and bel Air, who are
being subjected to the gang violence. They have no hope
because in the sense that these people are going to
improve my life because they haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I want to close with this, Jacqueline, because you mentioned
the beginning is when you first started in journalism when
you were fourteen. You'll be looking at the chaos in Haiti,
not as a journalist, but as someone who might have
a friend or a relative whose life was at risk.
When you think about your readers and your listeners and
your viewers, what is it both as you know, both
as a person and as a journalist, you hope they
(23:29):
take away from the full spectrum of your work.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
You know, I still have family in Haiti. In fact,
all of my family on my mother's side remains in Haiti,
and I often say that It's just one decision that
is the difference between me and my cousins why I
am here and why they're there. It was just one
decision once, that decision that my mother made. Because had
(23:56):
she decided to give birth to me in Haiti or
after having me outside of Haiti, sending me to Haiti
to be raised by my grandparents or my aunts, I
could very well be one of these individuals who stuck
in Haiti. My family's not from the elite, you know.
(24:18):
I represent the group that goes to the US Embassy
and gets turned down for a visa. And my other
reality is that I am a member of the Haitian diaspora.
What I hope is that, Okay, if there's one thing
that I write that has the ability to make a difference,
to have the policy makers think of another approach or
(24:41):
another policy that will move the needle forward, then I
think I've accomplished something. You know, for those who may
look at Haiti and just think of it as oh God,
that country again, always in chaos. But if I can
show you the human and all of this and you
(25:01):
can be moved in touch by it, then I think
that I I've accomplished something.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Incredibly well said and very moving. Jacqueline Charles, Thank you,
Thank you. That was a conversation with Jacqueline Charles, Caribbean
correspondent for the Miami Herald, and that's where you can
find her work. If you haven't already, go read her
seminal article made in Miami, How Miami plot to ouster
(25:28):
president led to a murder in Haiti. It recently won
the prestigious Overseas Press Award. If you've enjoyed this series,
please share it with friends and family or leave a
rating which helps people find the show. But above all,
thank you for listening. Silenced is a Kaleidoscope Content original
(25:54):
produced by Margaret Catcher, Jenkinni and Padmini Ragunov. Research assistance
from Sybilla Phipps, Jeremy Bigwood and Kira Sinnis. Edited by
Lacy Roberts, Executive produced by Kate Osborne, Reported and hosted
by Anna Arana and me Oz Valoshan. Fact checking by
(26:14):
Nicole Pasulka. Music by Oliver Rodigan aka k Denzer, Mix
and sound design by Kyle Murdoch. Thanks to a mangosh
Hatikta Costaslinas and viny Shuri. Our executive producers at I
Heart are Katrina Novel and Nikki Etoor. If you like
what you hear, please rate, review, share, and subscribe to
(26:36):
our channel. Thank you.
From Kaleidoscope and iHeart Podcasts. This is Silenced. I'm os Vloshan.
It's been twenty years since the story of Verio ended,
A story that stood at a crossroads in Haitian history
where things could have been so different, A story that
beams ear splitting echoes into the Haiti and Miami of today.
(00:38):
In this bonus episode, we closed the gap between the
nineteen nineties and now with a timely interview with a
nauded Caribbean correspondent for the Miami Herald, Jacqueline Charles. She
wrote the definitive piece on the twenty twenty one assassination
of Haitian President juvnal Moiz in the Power of Vacuum.
Since the assassination, Haiti has experienced escalating gang violence, kidnappings
(01:02):
for ransom are on the rise, and refugees are fleeing
the country in large numbers. It's a level of instability
that harkens back to the nineteen nineties. We discussed Jacqueline's
reporting on the presidential assassination and all that's followed, and
we talked about keeping alive the dream of a democratic Haiti.
(01:23):
Here's our conversation. Can you tell us a little bit
about your path to your current job. Really starting is
how you became a journalist and how you came to
have Haiti as your specialty.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I actually got my start as a high school intern,
a fourteen year old high school intern at Miami Herald.
This was a period where you know, Haiti was making
a lot of news as usual. Some of my colleagues
in the newsroom, one in particular, Peter Bosh, was a
photographer who would go out to Haiti a lot, and
he had friends in Haiti. After when he's calling them
to try to check on them, and then he would
(02:02):
get the maid and so he didn't speak Creole, so
he would actually ask me if I could translate for him.
So that's really how I guess you can say, I
sort of got started just kind of translating, you know,
helping someone out. And after I decided that I was
going to be a journalist because I really wanted to
be a doctor, I started to think about, you know,
(02:25):
what I wanted to focus on, what I want my
specialty to be. And being of Haitian descent, being from
the Caribbean, being raised by a Haitian mother and a
Cuban American stepfather, I really saw myself as being in
a unique position to really educate people about this region
and about these countries. It's not just about sun and surf.
(02:48):
It's not just about you know, crises and dictatorships and communism,
but that they're so layered and so textured.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That period in the in the early nineties, the kind
of Aris Steed coup period, was also a period of
enormous migration by boat to South Florida. And when we
met last year in Miami, you used the phrase back
to the future to compare the situation at least as
of a year ago, to the situation in the early nineties.
I'm wondering about that phrase back to the future and
(03:18):
what it meant to you.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
When we met. You know, that was a period where
we were seeing the largest Haitian boat migration crisis in
almost twenty years. We're still seeing reports of overloaded boats,
you know, either off the coast of Cuba or off
the coast of the Bahamas. We've seen thousands of Haitians.
The US Coast Guard is out in patrol, so they've
managed to stop some of these boats, you know, before
they even get through the Florida Straits. What you see consistently,
(03:44):
is that when Haiti is in crisis, boat migration goes up,
Maritime migration goes up. So when I say back to
the future, is that once again we're looking at a
country that is in political turmoil, economic, social turmoil. This
is unprecedented in terms of of the gang violence and
the kidnappings. You have an entire capital of Quota Prince
(04:04):
almost under gang rule and you see people reacting with
their feet. So you also have parallel to that, journalists
who are being forced to flee Haiti because their lives
are in danger. You have a number of journalists who
have been forced out at Haiti. They've had to seek
refuge either in the Dominican Republic or here in the
(04:26):
United States because they have been the targets of attempted assassinations, kidnappings,
or kidnapped. When you start to lose your best journalists
or just journalists in general, who are doing good work,
not merchandising but actually informing people, where does that leave
(04:48):
a population? And that is the concern that when I
talk about back to the future, is that you have
this unsolved murder in Miami of these journalists in a
chaotic period of Haiti, and today while we have this trail,
you know, Jean Dominique, Bringo Lindor, you know, and others
(05:11):
in Haiti whose murders remain unsolved. My fear is that
we are going to be adding to that list.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
This is the month of the anniversary of the assassination
of Jean Dominique. We spoke to Michelle Montasse at length.
We'll get to the story your reporting and Noyes, But
those two cases and these radio broadcasters in little Haiti
in the early nineties, the abiding theme is impunity and
killer is not being brought to justice, and I wonder
(05:39):
both why that is and what the consequences of that is.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Well, I think you're seeing the consequences of the impunity
in Haiti. You're seeing it today in the current reality
of what's happening in this country. It's on a very
dangerous downward spiral, escalating gang violence. You know, in kidnappings
the United Nations last year that on average, you know,
one person was kidnapped every six hours. You mentioned gen Dominique,
(06:07):
and twenty three years later, his killers have not been
brought to justice. One of the judges who had led
that investigation, Claude Gasson died last year on the mysterious circumstances.
Another key witness in the Gen Dominique case was assassinated,
you know, in Haiti after leaving Miami and going back
(06:30):
to Haiti. So one has to wonder whether or not
there will ever be any sort of resolution. And yes,
this is the most high profile journalists of our time,
and he stands as a symbol of so much and
of how even today the freedom of the press is
under fire, you know in this country.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, a symbol of lost hope. I mean particularly he
was an inspiration to so many, including several of these
radio broadcasters who were murdered in Myais. So there's all
of these strange echoes and parallels. It felt like in
the early nineteen nineties, this this moment of hope and
hope in democracy, that there was almost like a fight
(07:11):
for the future of Haiti happening on the streets of Miami.
How did that fight resolve itself and is it ongoing
or is that a battle of the past.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Now. You also have to remember that the demographics of
the people who were coming to South Florida were essentially
you know, Haitians who were from the north or who
lived from you know, rured areas. These were the peasants,
the farmers, not necessarily folks who you know, are college educated,
(07:40):
but they came and they succeeded, but they were still
focused on Haiti, right Their bags were still packed. Their
dreams were to go back to Haiti and resume their lives.
This is what they were, you know, they were waiting on.
And then of course Eristy gets exiled in this in
this military cool. But then the earthquakes happened. And when
(08:02):
the earthquake happened, we started to see a shift. And
that shift was people were starting to give up on
that idea, that dream that they were going to move
back to Haiti, and all of a sudden, people were
concerned about their local you know, city council and the decisions.
They were increasingly becoming American citizens. This is a city
(08:24):
where we elected the first Haitian American public office anywhere
in the United States. And then their attentions were increasingly
being focused on local issues because there had become so
much disappointment, you know, in Haiti post you know, twenty
ten earthquake. What we saw was the promises of the
(08:46):
billions of dollars that the international community said they would
give didn't materialize, and so in Haiti we saw the
long lines of Haitians who were trying to get to Chile.
In Brazil and in South Florida, we basically saw a
community that just sort of turned their back. I'll continue
to support my family, I'll continue to send my remittances.
But people were like literally unpacking their bags and boxes
(09:08):
and gave up on this idea that I'm going to
move back.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We first met actually in little Haiti. We went to
the Dixie Express Driving School, which is actually where Fritz
Dahor worked as a paralegal and where his partner at
Donosan Pleete ran the driving school. And when we were there,
the Dixie Driving School was still there, and there was
a sign up and you could kind of make out
the phone number and some of the marketing material from
the early nineties. Since we've been reporting on the podcast,
(09:33):
that building has now actually been sold and presumably we'll
be torn down and redeveloped. And so if we'd even
started this story a year later, that very important physical
landmark might not exist anymore. And so, you know, hearing
about how Febrile the atmosphere on the streets was in
Little Haiti in the early nineties and seeing it now
with these shuttered storefronts, can you speak a little bit
(09:56):
about what's happened to Little Haiti and what effect that
may have on the community's kind of ability to pressure
in terms of policy.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
The reality is that while Little Haiti was the first
entry point for Haitians coming into South Florida, it is
a community that today has been tentrified. It has changed.
There are very few Haitians who are actually living in
Little Haiti, and those who live in Little Haiti, you know,
few of them actually own their property in Little Haiti.
I mean when Joan Juice was, you know, on the
(10:27):
streets and was pressuring, it was about the fact that
you had Haitian refugees in the United States who were
being targeted for deportation. They did not have legal status,
they were fighting for legal status. Everybody was in the
same boat, so to speak. So it was very easy
to rally people around that. Today it's different. Today you're
(10:51):
dealing with the generation, a younger generation of American born
Haitians who don't know the struggle for immigrants equity. They
don't know the Haitian rights struggle. They don't know what
it's like to be called names or to be targeted
because you were you were Haitian. I remember just recent,
(11:14):
like last year or year before last, I went to
a protest that was organized by Tony Shinin or Vio.
Vio used to be able to bring out, you know,
tens of thousands of people on the streets, and they
were just a few hundred, you know, and most cities
were old guards either or not. These are not necessarily
(11:34):
like young people who were out, you know, who would
be out and protesting for Black Lives matter, who are deciding, well,
I'm going to go to this protest by this organization.
So that's what I think what you're seeing is a
community coming of age. You're seeing assimilation, but you're seeing
also this ongoing strow for identity and to hold on
(11:55):
to that identity and asking itself, well, what should our
next come that be? What should our next fight be?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
More after the break, for people who don't know anything
about the assassination of President jov Nomoise, can you briefly
summarize what happened and what you've learned in your reporting?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So on July seventh, twenty twenty one, anti president of
No Moyes was at home in his private residence. He
was at home with his wife and their two kids
when a group of alleged assassins Columbian mercenaries came in
and allegedly kill him. I say alleged because we are
(12:36):
there's been no trial. Just to take a step back,
I mean, this was a period where jov Nomales was
the target of increased anti government protests. He was ruling
by a decree, meaning there was no functioning parliament to
the lower chamber had been dismissed. There were only ten
senators in office. All of the mayor's local officials had
(12:57):
been appointed by him, even the police chief. We also
came into office, you know, facing money laundering charges, questions
about you know, the elections. The first round actually was
thrown out because of fraud. So he controlled every apparatus
of the country, and he was flexing his muscles. I mean,
he passed an executive order to create sort of the
(13:20):
equivalent of a Haitian cia, and people were up in arms,
you know about this. His critics were accusing him of
trying to be Latin America, and the Caribbean's next dictator.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So after President Moyes was killed, you actually went to
Haiti to cover the assassination, and you found a complex
web of motives and actors that actually led all the
way back to Miami, and in fact, you named the
piece Made in Miami. Talk about that.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
We named this project made in Miami because what became
very clear early on when after I arrived in Haiti
actually the day of the event, was that there were
a number of Haitian Americans which to South Florida, who
were implicated in this. Two of them were actually on
the street outside of the President's house, Vincent Joseph and
(14:09):
James Delage basically saying this is a DEA operation, DA operation.
It was not a DA operation, but basically tried to
use the cover of a US federal agency in order
to pull this off. One of the things that we
did find out is that what was used as a
motivating tool for the former Colombian soldiers who were allegedly
(14:31):
involved in this is that they were told that there
was forty million plus dollars cash inside the president's house.
So this turned into this sort of a weird money heights.
The reason why the plan had switched from kidnapping the
president to killing him was because there was pay dirt.
They were going to get access to this cash and
(14:52):
that they would be able to keep millions of dollars
in this cash and then turn over some of it
to the new team that was going to be governing. Hey.
In Mayesa's absence, four of the suspects who were jailed
in Haiti. Of the forty plus who've been jailed were
brought to the United States, where they have been charged.
It also includes a former Columbian military official who was
(15:17):
allegedly the co leader of the of the Colombian mercenaries
who've been implicated in this, as well as three Haitian
Americans that I mentioned earlier, two.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Of whom are the current or former US intelligence assets, right.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
One guy Joseph Vincident, is a former DA informant. He
was not at the time of the assassination. Rudolph jar
who's also in the United States at one point, was
an informant, you know, for the DA. He's a convicted
drug trafficker. He has since just pled guilty in the
assassination to avoid a trial and to see if he
can get a deal. And then there is a third
(15:52):
gentleman that we at the Miami Hurl broke the story
and at the time of the assassination, he was still
an active fbimant.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
At the time of the assassination of the president of
at one of the assassins, was an active FBI informant, Yes, but.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
That does not mean that the FBI was aware or involved.
As a matter of fact, they have acknowledged in the
charging documents that yes, he was an FBI informant, and
when they learned of his involvement, he was no longer disinformant.
And he did at some point tried to engage the
(16:27):
FBI in some sort of regime change discussion, which they
did not engage in. But they by no way that
this was sanctioned by them, and we have not seen
any evidence to say that it was. You know, I
know that there are people who believe that the United
States knows everything, and there's no way that president was
killed in the US was not aware that this was
going to happen.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
No, I mean, I've been on the story from day one.
We've done a lot of digging, We've talked to a
lot of people, and there is absolutely nothing in my
reporting or my colleagues who have other great sources elsewhere,
people who don't necessarily need to protect any government agency.
And we have not found any evidence that the United
States had any involvement in this at all. I think
(17:09):
that's one of the problems with impunity is that when
you don't have real investigation to provide people with answers.
You know, there's a lot of assumptions that are always
you know, that are always made right.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
And now the the million dollar question. So, I mean, obviously,
in the early nineties, Aristide was such a figure of
hope for people like Tony and Marlan and Fritz and
Donner and johns Olivier. Hope for a new Haiti, hope
for a Haiti that people could return to that as
you said, people literally had their boxes and suitcases packed.
What happened to that hope and why it didn't work out?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Oh, that is the million dollar question. Why didn't it
work out? I think that, you know, thirty years in
the life of a country is a short time, but
it's a generation and when you've got turmoil, it seems
like it's forever. When you think about the fact that
there are young people today and Haiti who don't know
(18:04):
what a working democracy looks like. You know, they yearn
for a period where they heard that, you know, there
was electricity twenty four to seven and they were baseballs
that were being made. Of course, they don't know the
price of that twenty four hour electricity in those baseballs.
That was during the dictatorship. Things were great and wonderful
as long as you were not in politics. So, you know,
(18:28):
I think with Haiti, when you look at what's happening today,
you're saying, well, what happened in these last thirty some years.
Haitians bear responsibility in some of it, but a lot
of it also is you know, international community and policies.
There are specific policies and decisions that were taken by
the United States and others that one could say, you know,
help this country get to where it is today. And
(18:50):
today what you were seeing is a perfect storm of
all that's wrong, a perfect storm of the billions of
dollars that were put into a judiciary and the system
is still dysfunctioned, so you have impunity. You know, money
that was put into the rebuilding the police force, but
they didn't take it to the next level in terms
of how do you protect it from politicization. How do
(19:13):
you put it sort of on automatic pilot that it
grows itself rather than just crumble at the slightest you know,
attack on its fragility, which is what you're seeing. But
if you talk to you know, the avergation, who is
you know, in danger of being raped or who has
been raped because they've been kidnapped or they've been subjected
to violence. They want the ability to be free, They
(19:36):
want the ability to be secure, to be able to
walk on the street. You know. I was just talking
to a friend of mine just this week and he
was telling me the story of a woman who had
been kidnapped and health for twenty two days, and she
was raped and beaten every one of those days. I mean,
this is the reality that a lot of Haitians are
having to face. So they're not interested in the political
(19:59):
debate or the sovereign debate. They just want help and
they don't care where it's coming from. Yeah, I often
say that, you know, when Haiti should be treated like
a five year old, it gets treated like an eighteen
year old. And when it gets treated like an eighteen
year old, it should get treated like a five year old.
What does that mean meaning that you know there are
times where look, this is the first black republic and
(20:20):
it's a very proud history, and your advergation will like
to think this is a sovereign country. But we can
have a whole college course. What's the definition of sovereignty
and how sovereign are you when you are dependent on
others for aid and for assistance, and when a foreign
government is having to pay partly for your police did
(20:45):
you get to make your own decisions? So you know,
the people, the very people who are criticizing the United
States for putting their hands on the scale are also
the people that are asking the United States to put
their hands on the scale and boot this guy and
put me in. We can't have it both ways, and
I think that that's what it's been. There's been a
contradiction in the message.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Your piece begins with this memorable phrase, in the heart
of every Haitian lies as sleeping president. So I was
curious about how those two things relate to each other.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
So you have your averagations. You know, your mother's on
the streets for people who are living in the ghettos
who know that they'll never be president, because that's a
world far away, you know, for a world way from me.
You know, Haiti is a very class based society, right,
so I'm not in that class. But for the people
who are in that class, who either went to the
(21:37):
schools or they walk the circles, are they, you know,
rub shoulders elbows with people in politics? Yeah, every you
know in the heart of vari Haitian is a sleeping president.
This idea that I can run this country. I'm going
to take charge of this country. I can do this.
I think that that's one of the biggest under estimations
that people. You know, that people make and forget that
(21:58):
there are people who are in the bureaucracy of this
country who've been there for decades and are the real
people who are running the show. And that you know,
impunity rains and because impunity reigns, it's very difficult to
get things done, it's very difficult to be a change agent,
and that people flock to those who are in power.
You started this conversation about impunity and act. Why I
keep coming back to it is because you know, the
(22:21):
chaos is because we don't have crime and punishment. This
is a crime, but whereas the punishment and I think
that that lack of a punishment in that concept is
what allows the impunity terrain. How do you get the
averagation to believe in this thing called democracy when it
(22:44):
has failed them. One of the biggest questions in Haiti
has always been who represents um you know, the average Haitian,
the people who are you know, in the city solets,
in the lass aleins Ru and bel Air, who are
being subjected to the gang violence. They have no hope
because in the sense that these people are going to
improve my life because they haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
I want to close with this, Jacqueline, because you mentioned
the beginning is when you first started in journalism when
you were fourteen. You'll be looking at the chaos in Haiti,
not as a journalist, but as someone who might have
a friend or a relative whose life was at risk.
When you think about your readers and your listeners and
your viewers, what is it both as you know, both
as a person and as a journalist, you hope they
(23:29):
take away from the full spectrum of your work.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
You know, I still have family in Haiti. In fact,
all of my family on my mother's side remains in Haiti,
and I often say that It's just one decision that
is the difference between me and my cousins why I
am here and why they're there. It was just one
decision once, that decision that my mother made. Because had
(23:56):
she decided to give birth to me in Haiti or
after having me outside of Haiti, sending me to Haiti
to be raised by my grandparents or my aunts, I
could very well be one of these individuals who stuck
in Haiti. My family's not from the elite, you know.
(24:18):
I represent the group that goes to the US Embassy
and gets turned down for a visa. And my other
reality is that I am a member of the Haitian diaspora.
What I hope is that, Okay, if there's one thing
that I write that has the ability to make a difference,
to have the policy makers think of another approach or
(24:41):
another policy that will move the needle forward, then I
think I've accomplished something. You know, for those who may
look at Haiti and just think of it as oh God,
that country again, always in chaos. But if I can
show you the human and all of this and you
(25:01):
can be moved in touch by it, then I think
that I I've accomplished something.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Incredibly well said and very moving. Jacqueline Charles, Thank you,
Thank you. That was a conversation with Jacqueline Charles, Caribbean
correspondent for the Miami Herald, and that's where you can
find her work. If you haven't already, go read her
seminal article made in Miami, How Miami plot to ouster
(25:28):
president led to a murder in Haiti. It recently won
the prestigious Overseas Press Award. If you've enjoyed this series,
please share it with friends and family or leave a
rating which helps people find the show. But above all,
thank you for listening. Silenced is a Kaleidoscope Content original
(25:54):
produced by Margaret Catcher, Jenkinni and Padmini Ragunov. Research assistance
from Sybilla Phipps, Jeremy Bigwood and Kira Sinnis. Edited by
Lacy Roberts, Executive produced by Kate Osborne, Reported and hosted
by Anna Arana and me Oz Valoshan. Fact checking by
(26:14):
Nicole Pasulka. Music by Oliver Rodigan aka k Denzer, Mix
and sound design by Kyle Murdoch. Thanks to a mangosh
Hatikta Costaslinas and viny Shuri. Our executive producers at I
Heart are Katrina Novel and Nikki Etoor. If you like
what you hear, please rate, review, share, and subscribe to
(26:36):
our channel. Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.