August 19, 2025 • 46 mins
For the season one finale, The Old Gays are joined by their first special guest, Brandon Kyle Goodman: an actor, activist, and author, best known for their work on Netflix's "Big Mouth" and their iHeart Radio podcast, "Tell Me Something Messy."
From family dynamics and queer visibility to butt plugs and the sex tip that landed Brandon in the Urban Dictionary, this episode weaves through many of our previous themes, this time through an intergenerational lens.
What’s Brandon’s take on bathhouses and queer friendship? How do The Old Gays really feel about being local celebrities? And what are everyone’s practices when it comes to “self-love”?
Through vulnerable truths and a lot of laughter, this episode is a heartfelt bridge between different generations, reminding us of the many reasons to connect and learn beyond the limitations of age.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ruby, I came out of the womb.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Gay sex and not just about penetration, but it's about conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I've been looging yourself. Begins with masturbation.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and Steamy
Palm Springs, California. It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Is silver Lighting with the Old Gays.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
So far, it's been just the four of us talking,
but we think it's time we opened the door to
a special guest.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I told you I don't do those kind of things anymore.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
So who's going to be the fifth wheel on this
Old Gay Tour?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
They're half our, so it's more like four and a
half wheels.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I think they make up for their youth with their intelligence,
talent and bone structure.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
That's right for our season one finale, the Old Gays
are welcoming our very first Silver Linings guest Brandon Kyle Goodman.
Brandon is a writer, actor, comedian, educator, and activist, best
known for their brilliant work on the TV show Big Mouth.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Their heartfelt book You Gotta Be You, and their iHeart
podcast series Tell Me Something MESSI.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
We're thrilled to have them with us, so please welcome
the fabulous Brandon Kyle Goodman. Yes, Hi everybody. Hi, Hi,
I'm so excited to be here. How y'all doing today?
Speaker 5 (01:57):
We're doing great?
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Yeah? Where do I find y'all?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Palm Springs?
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Palm Springs? Is it hot?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Maybe one hundred and ten, one hundred and fifteen today?
Speaker 6 (02:08):
How do else stay cool in that weather?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
It's called air conditioning? Honey, Well, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And pol you have.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
In the evening in the evenings.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
And any popsicles maybe I do?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Okay, I love popsicles and ice cream sandwiches. It's summer.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
There we go.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
So what's going on in La?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
La?
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Is also hot?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Not as host Springs. Now, you know, I went to
the gym this morning. I had a little meditation.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
You know. I ate the string cheese. I'm feeling good.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
I'm feeling do you say a string cheese?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
A string cheese? Just saying okay, just the one to
hold me over. It's feeling good.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
So our conversation today has an intergeneration focus. We covered
a lot of ground on this podcast so far, and
now we'd like to mingle with you about the ways
things have changed are stayed the same in Queer life.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yes, the four of us are considered baby boomers, and Brandon, you.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
Are a millennial, I believe, Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
What's the most millennial thing about you?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I feel like what's the most millennial thing about me
is probably my love of mental health and like feelings
and my love of living single, which is one of
my favorite TV shows. So I love I love wearing,
I love the nineties nostalgia, I love wearing overalls now.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
But I also love my mental health.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
That's like, that's my my gem, you know, talking about
our feelings understand, Yes, what's.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
The most what's the most boomer thing about y'all?
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Bill can be more specific, but we're not really boomers.
Bill and I.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. Something that's not really talked about a lot is
the Silent generation. Bob was born in forty three. I
was born in forty four. And the Silent generation goes
from nineteen twenty eight through nineteen forty five. And the
(04:29):
Silent generation was very disciplined and it was a very
strict generation. And the boomers kind of broke into it
and that they started expressing their own things and not
things that they were taught like in the past.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Oh, I beg to differ, Uh, oh, differ. Then I'm
a baby boomer. You know, there are older boomers and
then there are younger boomers. I was born in nineteen
fifty six, so it was probably between the two boomer generations. Remember,
Barack Obama is a baby boomer. He was born at
(05:10):
the very end. And I can see that there is
a very big difference between say like a Bill Clinton
and a Barack Obama. You can see the difference in
attitude and approach to life. And I think that has
a lot to do with the fact that the early
(05:31):
boomers were very much involved in civil rights protests, the
beginning of the women's movement, the LGBTQ queer movement, and
also just to open up the way we approach life.
Boomers are, first of all, were expected to achieve a lot,
(05:52):
but they are also the most spoiled generation, and I
would say that about ourselves.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I also think that World War two, the end of
the war had a really big impact in shaping how
many of us viewed our place in the world in
a positive way and how if we all work hard
(06:25):
and work together, what we can achieve. And so that
I think was instilled in many of us by our
parents and by just society at the time that it
really shaped our formitive years and what we chose to
(06:47):
do later in life.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, that's an early boomer. Okay, it's much different.
Speaker 6 (06:56):
And just say, where do you fit into all this?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I don't I just I just am you just I
never figured out these boomers and exes and all that stuff.
I'm just me. Yes, Was it was it.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Easy to carve a space out for yourselves or did
you have to was?
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Was?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I mean, obviously there was resistance, but what was your
relationship to that resistance?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I don't remember the big issues. It's been a smooth
journey because of my parents educating us on what to do,
when to do, and when not to do. And then
I became vocal as I became a teenager with the
racial issues that were going on. Still had to stay
in the closet for quite a while, so I wasn't out.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
When did everybody come out? How old were you all
when you came.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Out to ourselves or publicly?
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Oh that's a great question to yourself and then publicly?
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Okay, Yeah, for me, there was no single event or anything.
It was just a very gradual, natural process that took place.
When I was probably five years old, and I knew
at that point in time I was different, and I
(08:19):
knew what visuals matters stimulated me. I have never been
to bed with a woman. I have never had the
desire to.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I think each two of us has a different definition
of coming out. It really wasn't until my junior year
of college where I finally came out. And that's when
I started doing the bars in the circuit, but also
going to meetings because Minnesota is a pretty liberal state
and had already developed a high level of gay organization.
(08:56):
And in nineteen seventy seven, I moved to California and
I went to a party with my ex and we
had done LSD and so it was a Sunday morning,
and it was around two in the afternoon, and my
sister called, and then she put my mother on for
some reason. And I was still so loaded, and so
I told my mother that I forgived her for all
(09:19):
anythings that any resentments that I had against her. And
then I said, oh, and by the way, I'm gay.
Oh And she said, oh, okay, I still love you,
but don't tell your father.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah. So I thank god that I left Minnesota that's
all I say.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Yeah, that makes sense, So you could be yourself, how
about you? Bill?
Speaker 4 (09:47):
And just they I came out at birth. I was
cut out at birth, but I came out to myself
all my life. I was never into girls, but I
had to be on fortunately because I didn't want to
hurt them, but I did. I was close to marriage
but got out of it. But I came out publicly.
(10:12):
When was that? Oh, when I moved to la in
eighty two and joined La Gay Men's Course. And it's
just been the journey of the courses in that community
leading me to where I am today.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, and Bill, I always knew I was gay. I
mean I came out of the womb gay and a
lot of the other kids played doctor with one another.
But I always avoided that situation because I didn't want
anybody to know I was gay. I never came out
(10:52):
to my family, never told them I was gay, because
they just knew I was gay. But I always restrained
from playing around or anything until I was sixteen and
a half years old and I got my driver's license
and I made a beeline right down to Laguna Beach
(11:15):
and the rest was history.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Oh, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I have one more, please, I don't know how I
could forget this. My mom coming out to my mom. Oh,
I was in a relationship already in California, and she
kept saying, you know how parents, when are you getting married?
When are you getting married? Like, okay, girl, you don't know.
So I wrote a letter and sent it to my
sister and her husband and they took the letter to
(11:41):
my mom for her to read with her, and it
was just amazing. She was crying and she was feeling
guilty for not being able to be there for me.
But I told her, I said, you were, you just
didn't know it. I says, that's it. I says that
you love me and accept me for who I am.
It's all I need. After that, I could care less
(12:06):
who knew or who didn't know.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, moms are I mean I think
for ye moms or something. Moms are something and want
that approval or that acceptance my mom. My mom is
from Trinidad, so I'm perseneration American. I came out to
her when I was twenty or no, sorry, twenty one
or twenty two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She didn't take it
(12:29):
well and she Unfortunately we've been estranged for about fifteen
years now. So my journey has been learning to love
myself regardless of whether or not my family could show
up for me. And this is like where you know,
chosen family became such a huge part of my life.
(12:50):
I remember having this moment because we're you know, I'm
a PK pastor's kid. My grandmother was a minister, my
mom is now a minister, and so we just kind
of grew up under the screw. Not this called the scrutiny,
but the I always say, like the sashon Malia Obama
of church, like you're just always being watched and how
you behave it's all. But I remember after I came
(13:12):
out to my mom and that didn't go so well,
and just like wrestling with is it okay to be gay?
Is it okay to be queer or not? And then
looking at my friends who were also queer and loving
them so deeply and being like, well, if they're wonderful,
I don't think there're a sin, then why would I
be a sin?
Speaker 6 (13:29):
And that allowed me.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
To release that shame and realize it was more my
mother's journey and not mine. You know that I get
to be proud of who I am, and also because
of all the people that have come before yourselves, included
who have lived out loud and made it okay. And
I was saying to my friends, I don't know, it
(13:51):
would feel disrespectful to me to not honor the people
who have come before and who were living out loud
and who were old about it, to not do that
if I feel safe enough to do it, I'm in
New York City. Like, if not there, then where are you?
Thank you you're outselling you know?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh well Bram did following up on that. Yeah, yes,
tell me about the podcast, tell me something mess.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Yeah, my podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
My podcast is a safe space to talk about relationships,
sex and identity. And so we range from you know,
really wild things to really soulful things. But the point
is to just have these conversations about the quiet things
out loud. So to me, we are steeped in a
culture that doesn't want to talk about stuff, and everyone
is moving around in their spaces thinking that they're alone,
(14:39):
and so the intention of the podcast is that you're
not alone. That like, there are the wacky things that
happen during sex that or the cringe things, or the
embarrassing things, the vulnerable things. There are things that happen
with your family, there are things that happen at work.
And here's a safe space for us to talk about
it all with curiosity, communication and compassion.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Can you tell me what was your most memorable, quiet
but explosive memory from the show?
Speaker 6 (15:08):
From the show you know what?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
This one was from Emily no Goski And she wrote
the book Come As You Are, and we were. You
know that book is revolutionary and just like incredible in
terms of understanding one's body and sexuality and what you
what the shoulds are, and how to release all I
should do this and I should be this and just
(15:31):
kind of exist. And she said to me, who you
are as a sexual being deserves to exist. Hearing that
and like just like broke me down in quite the way,
in an unexpected way, because to be given that permission
that who you are as a sexual person has every
right to exist and be. And then Lena Waite came
(15:53):
on and also gave us a moment. We were talking
about mothers and not having adult relationships with our mothers,
and she said something to the effect that her therapist
had said, which is, you don't need somebody's response to heal.
This idea that, like, you know, even if a person
has passed away or you're no longer a conversation, you
don't need their response to heal. You just need to
(16:15):
say the truth of what you're feeling, whether that's to
a candle that you've lit, whether that's the stars, whether
that's in a letter, But you don't need to Their
response is not going to bring you your healing. That
healing has to come from from you. And so those
are two very incredible moments on the show. And then
Katya from ruf Roll's Drag Race told me about you
(16:36):
know how she likes to work out with butt plugs
and then one of the one time it fell out,
she was at the gym and she had to pick
it up real fast because she wasn't sure if it was,
as she said, pristine. So we have the rage, we
have the range on the show everything.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Did she have to like run across the room to
find it at the other wall.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I think, and it was right there she just grabbed,
just like betting itself a too long food moment. Yes, yes, yes,
the sling of shotting across the room. No, it wasn't
that it just fell on the floor. Shit to grab
real fast. So we talk about it all. It's just
it's just a shame free space to have imperfect conversations
(17:18):
that hopefully make people feel less alone.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Oh great, I had that too. Anybody tell no I
didn't miss a joke.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Let's go back to this subject of butt plugged.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Yes, please.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Did anybody talk about, like, you know, losing one up there?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I half I did once. That's why you need a
flared base. So I had a silver chrome butt plug,
had a little jewel on it. It was set to me,
you know, because because of the work I do, people
will send me different sex things.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
And I was all right, cool, let me do this.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So I like put it in and I was like cool, cool,
And then I think it coughed or something, and that
thing went up into my guts and I said, this is.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
Not happening to me. This cannot happen to me.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And I tried to reach for it and I could
feel it, but it was moving and twirling and I
couldn't get to it. And I was about to be
like I have to go to my husband and be like, hey, babe,
we might have to go to the hospital. But I
gave myself one more moment, and I sat on the
toilet and I said, just one big push, girl, and
I had that and.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
That thing went clink clink clink clink clink all up
in the toilet ball.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But I told the about it, and they said, girl,
you need a flared base. So anyone listening, if you
got a butt plug, it better have a flared base.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
So don't go up to your guts.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
And make sure you cagle so you can keep that
thing tight. There you go, yes, grab it.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah. I had a vibrator and you go all the
way up. Yeah. And well if somebody was using it,
and I get I have a very powerful record, and
I guess I just that's right, stocked it right. I'm
just a greedy little.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
What's one of your favorite sex stories you want to share?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
No, they've been varied.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Been varied. You know the thing about there's a lot
of bad sex out there.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
Like, let's be honest.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
But you know, first of all, the only way you
can improve your skills is by practicing. It's like riding
a bike. You just got to keep getting on it.
You just got to keep going on it. You just
got to keep riding it. You know, riding it or
taking it exactly. And you know, the one thing I
(19:41):
will say is, you know, I got a lot of
pointers watching porn. Porn, orn, orn. I got a lot
of pointers watching orn. Yeah, porn, And like you know,
you know the way those guys, some of those guys
you know take it down their throats. I am just
(20:03):
so impressed do that.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
That's a spiral.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
It's an art and one of the things you know,
that that really separate us from the others, you know,
the ninety nine percenters over there. You know, uh is
sexist fun and sexes. I should be unashamed and and
out there. You should try as many different positions and
(20:30):
and and schems and and just to enjoy it because
sexuality is what defines us.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And Brandon, speaking of that, you put a word in
the dictionary, correct.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yes, Bill, it's an urban dictionary, the VKG. Why the
Brandon kao yawn? I taught people how to give a
better blowjob, which is by yawning so that you open
up the back of your throat, lift that so off
palette and then you can take it for.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
The How do you yawn with your blo and how
do you yawn when you yawned.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, when you yawn, you suppressed the gag replex exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So yeah, it's it's the when you don't yawn, it
constrains the vocal cords and then you're getting you know,
you're not going to get it all.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
The way Yeah, where you be, I know, And you
know the best thing about is when it gets all
the way down to your poicebox.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
There, give it a battle cry on that, dick, Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Did the work?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
On my podcast we talk a lot about we're talking
about relationships, sex and identity, but I'm always talking about
sex because there's so much shame around it, especially for
women in queer fix because we've been trained to find
what we do as not sex or not or is
a sin or whatever, and so just having to undo
that and unpack that and then discovering that inside of
(22:07):
learning about sex, you really just learn about who you are.
So I call people on my show, we call each
other hose spelled h E a u X. It's a
fancy word, and my definition of it is someone who
commits to the liberation of themselves and others by thoughtfully
interrogating their relationship to sex. Using curiosity, communication and compassion and.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
So this, well, that's a mouthful.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
It is a mouthful, and you know we like a mouthful. Mack.
Come on, you got mack, You got.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Baby.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
So it's just like having those conversations and creating a
space to have conversations that it's not just about I
always say sex is not just about penetration, but it's
about conversation. It's about intimacy, it's about pleasure, it's about
you know, curiosity. Can you be curious about what you
love and what you don't love?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah? You know, I seem to remember in the days
before age, like when you would go to a bath
house in San Francisco, you were always engaging in conversation
with somebody outside them, you know, the showers, and then
you just saunter into a room, you know, and all
of a sudden you've discovered your long lost friend. Yes,
(23:20):
and you know, your alter ego or you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yes, I know, I love I love a bathhouse conversation.
The first time I went to a bath house, that
was my favorite part about it was sitting in the
jacuzzi and just talking and you know, like there without
there having to be anything sexual, just like a bunch
of men naked having conversations about life and whatever, and
then you know, you go in the steamer room and
do whatever. But that the that the the center of it.
The core of it was actually the community. It was
(23:46):
actually the emotional connection. I talk about having safe sex, safe,
being satisfying, affirming, freeing, and emotionally connected.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Stop, come on, you know, let's not.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Preach.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
K Yeah, you know, it's still a Mama Luyer.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You know, the relationships that I had lasting with my
gay and queer friends have always begun through a sexual encounter,
and I think those are the ones that last longer.
I don't know why. Maybe there's a little twinge in
the heart for that person as long as they're alive
and as you remember them. And that's special. You know
(24:30):
that I find now, even when I do go home
and visit my family, that I have so little in
common with them, you know, and that I have to
relate on their level because God knows, you know, they're
not going to turn around and just say to me,
you know, yeah, well yeah, I was a bad time.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I know.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
The blood family is so interesting because I know that everyone,
not everyone, but a lot of us try to hold
on to it, even when the blood family is not
necessarily the healthiest for us. Doesn't necessarily make us feel
our safest or make us feel our softest, you know,
if they do wonderful. But a lot of times, you know,
we talk about people going home for Thanksgiving and dreading it.
(25:16):
You know this generation that's you know, our generation and
gen Z that's coming up as going, Hey, if it's
not a safe place, I don't necessarily owe them anything.
Just because you know, you gave birth to me and
gave me a home which wasn't my choice to be here,
doesn't mean that I now have to I owe you
holidays or I owe you attention if you are not
(25:37):
a safe space. Yeah, you know, especially as queer folks,
I think that your your emotional safety is of the
utmost importance. And if your family, your blood is not that,
then it's okay. I say, you know, there's a boundary here,
and like I'm gonna I'm gonna spend time with my
chosen family, and I want to pour into the people
who pour into me, regardless of if we're related, regardless
(25:58):
of gender or sexual orientation or any of that. It's
like another human who's pouring it to me and I'm
pouring into them. That's where I want to be.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yes, well, I'm I'm really lucky on the blood family
thing because I have great support from all of my family.
In fact, for the fourth of July, my cousin always
throws a big family reunion, and since it had been
covid in that I hadn't been there in like five years,
(26:28):
and they all knew about the old days. Three of
them asked me for selfie and two of them asked
me to talk do a video for friends of theirs
who liked them. So I know, I'm a very, very
lucky guy. But I've got extremely strong blood family support.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's beautiful. And let me ask you, what is it
like being a celebrity now? Like going home and wonderful?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm still Bill.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
Okay, that's how I feel.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I'm still Bill said.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
It's a lot of it's a lot of fun. Yeah,
it's almost every time you go out, somebody approaches you
for some reason or another.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And they all want to know how we started and that.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Kind of thing, and I tell them to read the book.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Welcome back to Silver Linings with the old gays.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I have two questions. One is, how do you muse
that we protect each other? You know, based off of
having lived a life where you've had to show up
for each other and where a lot of the rights
that my generation has is because of the fight that
your generation partook in. How do you muse that we
(28:08):
today take care of each other and show up for
each other technicogy.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Well, one of the things I wanted to just say
in background is you know a lot of people died
for our freedom. Reason, Yeah, and I think of them,
and so when I say something publicly, I think of
generations that are younger than me, particularly young people between
(28:34):
eighteen and twenty five, especially coming out. All of that
has given me the courage to join in. You know,
it's so important because we have to face this intimidation
(28:54):
and we have to stand up for who we are
because you know, there's no going going back into the closet.
Right the world is just too too complicated and diverse
in quite frankly fragmented place.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, what I hear you saying is that the visibility
is important, and that so whatever your whether you have
a big following or a small following, it's the courage
to say who you are, the truth of who you are,
and show up in that way. And the other piece
of it is, in terms of the activism, is that
it's not just for you. It's for who's come before
(29:30):
you and that's coming after you.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
You know, Like I can think of how many times
at work I would hear a gay slur or I
would think particularly I worked in television. Okay, I worked
in show business as an actor, and talk about being
behind the eight ball and having to you know, do
(29:52):
all of that stuff, and I just in the end refused.
And I suppose that cost me a career, but you know,
I'd rather be true to myself and to my my
peers then to be fake.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, it costs you your career, but gained you your peace.
And I don't think you can put a price on
one's piece of mind and one piece of heart. You know,
there's no there's no price sack for that piece for
being able to look at yourself in the mirror and.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
Say I I.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Know that I acted with the integrity that is aligned
with the truth of who I am.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
That is a that is an invaluable So it all
starts with self love. It really does getting getting to
that point. You know, self love is.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Something that we I talk about often on the show
and with friends, and I'm so curious your thoughts on
how one loves themselves. You know, how how do you
begin that process? Like what is the starting place of
learning to love yourself?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
It varies.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I think you recognize that you are special, that you
are unique, there's no other person like you, and understand
who you are and be the best at that image.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I think loving yourself begins with masturbation. A that's right, correct?
I mean where else is it gonna start? I mean
I think you know, I I learned to love myself
by pleasuring myself and realizing, you know, you're a hot
(31:35):
gay man and I wouldn't have it any other way
in this life.
Speaker 6 (31:43):
Yeah, giving yourself pleasure like learn that. I mean, that's funny,
but it's true.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
The masturbation and like learning how to love yourself and
not being ashamed of it and and giving yourself pleasure
is a form of self in the day. I feel
like with self love, I try to rend that it
doesn't have to be perfect. Sometimes I feel like those
pursuit it's not, but the pursuit of self love is
that like I'm a perfect person. It's like, no, it's
(32:07):
loving your flaws, it's loving your insecurities. It's it's loving
the best parts of you and the scary parts of you.
That to me is the journey of self love. That
you're not trying to be a perfect person who is
worthy of love.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I think we compensate for our what we feel our
deficiencies are because we're queer, and so there's this kind
of neuroticism that comes involved in being a perfectionist. Yes, yes,
and not living or having like issues of body consciousness
(32:43):
like that that's how we get worth yes, yes, And
I think, well, you know so much gay culture, Yeah,
unfortunately is a lot about that. It is about looks
and it's like you know, talking about aging, is that
the fear is that once you turn thirty you disappear
year and that isn't what happened. Thirty is when life begins. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Yeah, oh my goodness. Yes, I'm thirty eight and I'm like,
I'm just getting started. It's not you are.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, you're a baby, baby baby.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Thank you, thank you for saying that, because I feel it.
I feel like a baby and I feel like I've
just begun. But there was a fear in my twenties
and my teenage yeers that like if I had to
be at a certain point by thirty, which I and
when I didn't hit that, that became scary.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
And then in the last few years it's been like.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Oh no, baby, Like some people may experience what looks
like externally the success or whatever they go out at
a certain age, but who you are as a person, Oh,
you don't know who the hell you are yet until
you're you're much further along. And that this I'm excited
about the journey. I'm excited about the forties and the
fifties and the sixties and it gets litter. My Angela
(33:55):
was like, there's her masterclass when she she said the eighties.
If you can make get to the eighties, the eighties
are fabulous, and I really love I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Is that is that right, Bob Phil.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I never thought i'd live this long.
I'm just just being able to enjoy myself now and
the freedom that I have. I mean, it's it's it's
the best time of my life.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
And I feel so content and like everything is almost
in its place where it needs to be. And as
long as there's not an external interruption, which is possible,
that life's gonna be nice to coastone out.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, And I think one of the rituals of passage
is actually to go through the death of your parents.
When my father died, I called a friend of mine
and I rang her up in London and I told
her that my father had died. And she said, oh,
you're an orphan now, yeah, And she said, you know,
(35:10):
that's not such a bad thing. And I said why,
And I said, well, you don't have anyone to answer
to now, you don't have to be something you're not
just to please them. Yeah, you're on your own. And
in so many ways that was true. I think with
both the loss of my parents, even though I grieved that,
(35:31):
I realized that there was a certain freedom.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
There is I have.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
The you know, as somebody who's strange, there's the emotional
you know, I talk about the physical passing of a
parent versus the emotional passing of a parent, So I
have the emotional one. And a friend of mine saw
a performance of mind and they were like, you're so free?
Is it because you're not in relationship with your mother?
And I had never considered it that like, oh, because
I'm not I'm no longer a representative of the bloodline,
(36:00):
I can kind of play.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
And explore yourself. Yeah, and you can. It's self actualization, Yes,
that's what they call it. And you know, you just
latch onto things that interest you and you do it
because they interest you and nobody else. And that's that's really,
I think the first step in being an adult.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
And that's where creativity comes from. Daring to take that step, yes,
is what generate new ideas.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
Can I ask, do.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Y'all have any grieving rituals? I have been musing that
as a culture, we are not good at talking about aging.
We're not good at talking about any kind of death, emotional, physical,
And so I'm so curious about building a grief practice
(36:59):
because you know, with the change is grief. With growth
comes grief. And so sometimes it's relationships, sometimes it's people.
Sometimes it's you know, a home that you lived in.
And I'm so curious if you have any thoughts on
or have your own grief rituals that you've built over
the years, ways in which you've allowed yourself to feel.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
I do, Yeah, I do. I use music for that
when I think about the dogs that I that Joel
and I had raised. I have specific music that I
selected for them so that whenever the music plays and
it's all usually classical music, I do cry and I
(37:40):
think about that. But you know that that was really special.
And and I even have music associated with people like
after I I divorced my ex, I selected a piece
of music that kind of summed up the relationship and
it in and let's just say, French.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
Lovely. How about the rest of you, any any grieving rituals.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Or well, I'm I'm right along with Mick as far
as that, because nothing gives me more inspiration or calms
me down than classical music, especially opera. I mean, it
is just it gets right into my soul and it
(38:31):
makes grieving a lot better for me, and I feel
wonderful when it's happening.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yeah, what particular music just uh Tasca.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Mario is sitting down and waiting for Taska to come
and he's writing the letter and then she comes in
and it just explodes with glory. They're both talking about
their love and going on after the pretended shooting in
that and it just it just.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
It's heartbreaking, isn't.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
It it's heartbreaking. I do know what's going to happen,
but it helps my grieving. You know they're grieving in
another way than I am. But it's even I had
a nervous breakdown. The only thing that helped me. I
(39:29):
had no libido, couldn't care about anything. The only thing
I cared about was opera. It's what kept me going.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
I remember when my partner passed away. It was the
most confusing time of my life because I had to
grow up. And I remember getting songs that I was
listening but I didn't realize I was that would just
like say something speak to where you are, and all
of a sudden you just break down crying. I've had
to sit on the fry side a freeway doing it
(40:01):
because I didn't know how to grieve. I thought I'd
have my black leather gloves, my big hat and go,
but society said, no, you don't do that. It was,
it was. It was quite a journey. I finally did
go to a support group to learn how to just live,
and it got me off of me and got me
(40:22):
helping another lady who had her son's remain sitting on
the fireplace or something, and I told her I says,
that's just death. It's just death hanging in your house.
Get it out. And we actually went out and did
the ship thing with him, and she says, this is
really good. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I says, yeah, it helped me too, to get through
it with you. You know, that reminds me of a
story about funerals. This is told to me. This family
they were burying one son who had died from HIV
and what at the other brother. It's who's key came in? Drag?
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (41:05):
How wild?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Now that's current that Wow.
Speaker 6 (41:12):
What a way to hunt way.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Yeah, oh that's awesome.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I bet he wore flats. It's hard to work at
the stabilize.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Those hills are a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I don't know, but I think he went into his
mother's closet. This was a very wealthy family in Beverly
Hill and I can't say the name, but she had
she was a former model, and she had an entire room.
You know how those danger they had walking closet, you know, Nicole,
(41:52):
it's all of that.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
Yes, Bob, do you have any grieving rituals?
Speaker 5 (42:00):
I become very quiet, very inner focused, and very analytical,
and I try to look at what the cause of
the grief as a problem to be solved and how
that fits into a larger picture, and to understand more
(42:28):
what's happening to what has happened to this piece of
that larger picture, and just kind of work it out
mentally until I reach a point that I'm satisfied I've
(42:49):
solved the problem and I can move on.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Well, actually, he can get quite emotional, so you.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
Know, he cries, he'll cry.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
He also knocks down doors with a hammer.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
So just there are too okay, perfect Brandon, Yes, to
wrap us up. Huh.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
What's been your silver lining for being a part of
the queer community?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
The permission, the invitation, and the embracing of being able
to be my full self? You know, I think that
there are as a queer person, you're really given the
runway to be an express how you want to. And
that is not always true when you're outside of the
(43:41):
queer community.
Speaker 6 (43:41):
There's a lot more boxes.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
And in the queer community, I felt like I've been
given permission to break the boxes and live, like to
build my own blueprint as opposed to follow following a
societal one. And so that has been a gift that
I will continue to honor and perish.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Yes, yeah, thanks so much for sharing. It's so wonderful.
Thanks for being with, Thank you for listen.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Can I say before I go that this I was
so excited to come here. I know that the videos
that y'all do and the content that you create is
always so fun and joyful, but it also has the
greatest impact being like we started this conversation talking about representation,
and so to be able to see the four of you,
to see your friendship means so much to me and
(44:28):
so many people. And so thank you for for being
for being out loud, for using your platform, for bringing
joy to all of our hearts.
Speaker 6 (44:36):
It is just it's really healing in a way that
I won't.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Be able to fully explain to you, and you may
not fully be able to feel, but just know that
you are healing so many people by just being so
thank you.
Speaker 6 (44:52):
Thank you, Thank your friend and keep up your work.
Thank you. I will talk to you so.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Love you.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Is this a rap?
Speaker 4 (45:06):
We're done by?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (45:12):
Thank you to everyone who tuned into our first season
of the show.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Silver Linings is a production of Iheart's Ruby Studios and
The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts Bill Lyons.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Robert Breeves, Mick Peterson, and Jesse Martin.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser. The episode was written
by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zeiler. Our
theme music was composed by Max Heirschanau, with audio direction
and design by Matt Stillo. And don't forget to rate
(45:51):
and review the show whenever you get your podcasts. Thanks
for listening, all.
Speaker 5 (45:57):
Right, bye now bye bye bye bye bye bye eighty
five
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Mm hmm
Ruby, I came out of the womb.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Gay sex and not just about penetration, but it's about conversation.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I've been looging yourself. Begins with masturbation.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles and Steamy
Palm Springs, California. It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and this.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Is silver Lighting with the Old Gays.
Speaker 5 (00:39):
So far, it's been just the four of us talking,
but we think it's time we opened the door to
a special guest.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I told you I don't do those kind of things anymore.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
So who's going to be the fifth wheel on this
Old Gay Tour?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
They're half our, so it's more like four and a
half wheels.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
I think they make up for their youth with their intelligence,
talent and bone structure.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
That's right for our season one finale, the Old Gays
are welcoming our very first Silver Linings guest Brandon Kyle Goodman.
Brandon is a writer, actor, comedian, educator, and activist, best
known for their brilliant work on the TV show Big Mouth.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Their heartfelt book You Gotta Be You, and their iHeart
podcast series Tell Me Something MESSI.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
We're thrilled to have them with us, so please welcome
the fabulous Brandon Kyle Goodman. Yes, Hi everybody. Hi, Hi,
I'm so excited to be here. How y'all doing today?
Speaker 5 (01:57):
We're doing great?
Speaker 6 (01:58):
Yeah? Where do I find y'all?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Palm Springs?
Speaker 6 (02:01):
Palm Springs? Is it hot?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Maybe one hundred and ten, one hundred and fifteen today?
Speaker 6 (02:08):
How do else stay cool in that weather?
Speaker 4 (02:10):
It's called air conditioning? Honey, Well, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And pol you have.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
In the evening in the evenings.
Speaker 6 (02:19):
And any popsicles maybe I do?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Okay, I love popsicles and ice cream sandwiches. It's summer.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
There we go.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
So what's going on in La?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
La?
Speaker 6 (02:32):
Is also hot?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Not as host Springs. Now, you know, I went to
the gym this morning. I had a little meditation.
Speaker 6 (02:39):
You know. I ate the string cheese. I'm feeling good.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
I'm feeling do you say a string cheese?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
A string cheese? Just saying okay, just the one to
hold me over. It's feeling good.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
So our conversation today has an intergeneration focus. We covered
a lot of ground on this podcast so far, and
now we'd like to mingle with you about the ways
things have changed are stayed the same in Queer life.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Yes, the four of us are considered baby boomers, and Brandon, you.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
Are a millennial, I believe, Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
What's the most millennial thing about you?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I feel like what's the most millennial thing about me
is probably my love of mental health and like feelings
and my love of living single, which is one of
my favorite TV shows. So I love I love wearing,
I love the nineties nostalgia, I love wearing overalls now.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
But I also love my mental health.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
That's like, that's my my gem, you know, talking about
our feelings understand, Yes, what's.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
The most what's the most boomer thing about y'all?
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Bill can be more specific, but we're not really boomers.
Bill and I.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah. Something that's not really talked about a lot is
the Silent generation. Bob was born in forty three. I
was born in forty four. And the Silent generation goes
from nineteen twenty eight through nineteen forty five. And the
(04:29):
Silent generation was very disciplined and it was a very
strict generation. And the boomers kind of broke into it
and that they started expressing their own things and not
things that they were taught like in the past.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Oh, I beg to differ, Uh, oh, differ. Then I'm
a baby boomer. You know, there are older boomers and
then there are younger boomers. I was born in nineteen
fifty six, so it was probably between the two boomer generations. Remember,
Barack Obama is a baby boomer. He was born at
(05:10):
the very end. And I can see that there is
a very big difference between say like a Bill Clinton
and a Barack Obama. You can see the difference in
attitude and approach to life. And I think that has
a lot to do with the fact that the early
(05:31):
boomers were very much involved in civil rights protests, the
beginning of the women's movement, the LGBTQ queer movement, and
also just to open up the way we approach life.
Boomers are, first of all, were expected to achieve a lot,
(05:52):
but they are also the most spoiled generation, and I
would say that about ourselves.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I also think that World War two, the end of
the war had a really big impact in shaping how
many of us viewed our place in the world in
a positive way and how if we all work hard
(06:25):
and work together, what we can achieve. And so that
I think was instilled in many of us by our
parents and by just society at the time that it
really shaped our formitive years and what we chose to
(06:47):
do later in life.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, that's an early boomer. Okay, it's much different.
Speaker 6 (06:56):
And just say, where do you fit into all this?
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I don't I just I just am you just I
never figured out these boomers and exes and all that stuff.
I'm just me. Yes, Was it was it.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Easy to carve a space out for yourselves or did
you have to was?
Speaker 6 (07:20):
Was?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I mean, obviously there was resistance, but what was your
relationship to that resistance?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I don't remember the big issues. It's been a smooth
journey because of my parents educating us on what to do,
when to do, and when not to do. And then
I became vocal as I became a teenager with the
racial issues that were going on. Still had to stay
in the closet for quite a while, so I wasn't out.
Speaker 6 (07:47):
When did everybody come out? How old were you all
when you came.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Out to ourselves or publicly?
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Oh that's a great question to yourself and then publicly?
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Okay, Yeah, for me, there was no single event or anything.
It was just a very gradual, natural process that took place.
When I was probably five years old, and I knew
at that point in time I was different, and I
(08:19):
knew what visuals matters stimulated me. I have never been
to bed with a woman. I have never had the
desire to.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I think each two of us has a different definition
of coming out. It really wasn't until my junior year
of college where I finally came out. And that's when
I started doing the bars in the circuit, but also
going to meetings because Minnesota is a pretty liberal state
and had already developed a high level of gay organization.
(08:56):
And in nineteen seventy seven, I moved to California and
I went to a party with my ex and we
had done LSD and so it was a Sunday morning,
and it was around two in the afternoon, and my
sister called, and then she put my mother on for
some reason. And I was still so loaded, and so
I told my mother that I forgived her for all
(09:19):
anythings that any resentments that I had against her. And
then I said, oh, and by the way, I'm gay.
Oh And she said, oh, okay, I still love you,
but don't tell your father.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah. So I thank god that I left Minnesota that's
all I say.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
Yeah, that makes sense, So you could be yourself, how
about you? Bill?
Speaker 4 (09:47):
And just they I came out at birth. I was
cut out at birth, but I came out to myself
all my life. I was never into girls, but I
had to be on fortunately because I didn't want to
hurt them, but I did. I was close to marriage
but got out of it. But I came out publicly.
(10:12):
When was that? Oh, when I moved to la in
eighty two and joined La Gay Men's Course. And it's
just been the journey of the courses in that community
leading me to where I am today.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, and Bill, I always knew I was gay. I
mean I came out of the womb gay and a
lot of the other kids played doctor with one another.
But I always avoided that situation because I didn't want
anybody to know I was gay. I never came out
(10:52):
to my family, never told them I was gay, because
they just knew I was gay. But I always restrained
from playing around or anything until I was sixteen and
a half years old and I got my driver's license
and I made a beeline right down to Laguna Beach
(11:15):
and the rest was history.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Oh, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I have one more, please, I don't know how I
could forget this. My mom coming out to my mom. Oh,
I was in a relationship already in California, and she
kept saying, you know how parents, when are you getting married?
When are you getting married? Like, okay, girl, you don't know.
So I wrote a letter and sent it to my
sister and her husband and they took the letter to
(11:41):
my mom for her to read with her, and it
was just amazing. She was crying and she was feeling
guilty for not being able to be there for me.
But I told her, I said, you were, you just
didn't know it. I says, that's it. I says that
you love me and accept me for who I am.
It's all I need. After that, I could care less
(12:06):
who knew or who didn't know.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, moms are I mean I think
for ye moms or something. Moms are something and want
that approval or that acceptance my mom. My mom is
from Trinidad, so I'm perseneration American. I came out to
her when I was twenty or no, sorry, twenty one
or twenty two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She didn't take it
(12:29):
well and she Unfortunately we've been estranged for about fifteen
years now. So my journey has been learning to love
myself regardless of whether or not my family could show
up for me. And this is like where you know,
chosen family became such a huge part of my life.
(12:50):
I remember having this moment because we're you know, I'm
a PK pastor's kid. My grandmother was a minister, my
mom is now a minister, and so we just kind
of grew up under the screw. Not this called the scrutiny,
but the I always say, like the sashon Malia Obama
of church, like you're just always being watched and how
you behave it's all. But I remember after I came
(13:12):
out to my mom and that didn't go so well,
and just like wrestling with is it okay to be gay?
Is it okay to be queer or not? And then
looking at my friends who were also queer and loving
them so deeply and being like, well, if they're wonderful,
I don't think there're a sin, then why would I
be a sin?
Speaker 6 (13:29):
And that allowed me.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
To release that shame and realize it was more my
mother's journey and not mine. You know that I get
to be proud of who I am, and also because
of all the people that have come before yourselves, included
who have lived out loud and made it okay. And
I was saying to my friends, I don't know, it
(13:51):
would feel disrespectful to me to not honor the people
who have come before and who were living out loud
and who were old about it, to not do that
if I feel safe enough to do it, I'm in
New York City. Like, if not there, then where are you?
Thank you you're outselling you know?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh well Bram did following up on that. Yeah, yes,
tell me about the podcast, tell me something mess.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
Yeah, my podcast.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
My podcast is a safe space to talk about relationships,
sex and identity. And so we range from you know,
really wild things to really soulful things. But the point
is to just have these conversations about the quiet things
out loud. So to me, we are steeped in a
culture that doesn't want to talk about stuff, and everyone
is moving around in their spaces thinking that they're alone,
(14:39):
and so the intention of the podcast is that you're
not alone. That like, there are the wacky things that
happen during sex that or the cringe things, or the
embarrassing things, the vulnerable things. There are things that happen
with your family, there are things that happen at work.
And here's a safe space for us to talk about
it all with curiosity, communication and compassion.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Can you tell me what was your most memorable, quiet
but explosive memory from the show?
Speaker 6 (15:08):
From the show you know what?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
This one was from Emily no Goski And she wrote
the book Come As You Are, and we were. You
know that book is revolutionary and just like incredible in
terms of understanding one's body and sexuality and what you
what the shoulds are, and how to release all I
should do this and I should be this and just
(15:31):
kind of exist. And she said to me, who you
are as a sexual being deserves to exist. Hearing that
and like just like broke me down in quite the way,
in an unexpected way, because to be given that permission
that who you are as a sexual person has every
right to exist and be. And then Lena Waite came
(15:53):
on and also gave us a moment. We were talking
about mothers and not having adult relationships with our mothers,
and she said something to the effect that her therapist
had said, which is, you don't need somebody's response to heal.
This idea that, like, you know, even if a person
has passed away or you're no longer a conversation, you
don't need their response to heal. You just need to
(16:15):
say the truth of what you're feeling, whether that's to
a candle that you've lit, whether that's the stars, whether
that's in a letter, But you don't need to Their
response is not going to bring you your healing. That
healing has to come from from you. And so those
are two very incredible moments on the show. And then
Katya from ruf Roll's Drag Race told me about you
(16:36):
know how she likes to work out with butt plugs
and then one of the one time it fell out,
she was at the gym and she had to pick
it up real fast because she wasn't sure if it was,
as she said, pristine. So we have the rage, we
have the range on the show everything.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Did she have to like run across the room to
find it at the other wall.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I think, and it was right there she just grabbed,
just like betting itself a too long food moment. Yes, yes, yes,
the sling of shotting across the room. No, it wasn't
that it just fell on the floor. Shit to grab
real fast. So we talk about it all. It's just
it's just a shame free space to have imperfect conversations
(17:18):
that hopefully make people feel less alone.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
Oh great, I had that too. Anybody tell no I
didn't miss a joke.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Let's go back to this subject of butt plugged.
Speaker 6 (17:33):
Yes, please.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Did anybody talk about, like, you know, losing one up there?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I half I did once. That's why you need a
flared base. So I had a silver chrome butt plug,
had a little jewel on it. It was set to me,
you know, because because of the work I do, people
will send me different sex things.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
And I was all right, cool, let me do this.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So I like put it in and I was like cool, cool,
And then I think it coughed or something, and that
thing went up into my guts and I said, this is.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
Not happening to me. This cannot happen to me.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And I tried to reach for it and I could
feel it, but it was moving and twirling and I
couldn't get to it. And I was about to be
like I have to go to my husband and be like, hey, babe,
we might have to go to the hospital. But I
gave myself one more moment, and I sat on the
toilet and I said, just one big push, girl, and
I had that and.
Speaker 6 (18:23):
That thing went clink clink clink clink clink all up
in the toilet ball.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
But I told the about it, and they said, girl,
you need a flared base. So anyone listening, if you
got a butt plug, it better have a flared base.
Speaker 6 (18:35):
So don't go up to your guts.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
And make sure you cagle so you can keep that
thing tight. There you go, yes, grab it.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Yeah. I had a vibrator and you go all the
way up. Yeah. And well if somebody was using it,
and I get I have a very powerful record, and
I guess I just that's right, stocked it right. I'm
just a greedy little.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
What's one of your favorite sex stories you want to share?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
No, they've been varied.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Been varied. You know the thing about there's a lot
of bad sex out there.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
Like, let's be honest.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
But you know, first of all, the only way you
can improve your skills is by practicing. It's like riding
a bike. You just got to keep getting on it.
You just got to keep going on it. You just
got to keep riding it. You know, riding it or
taking it exactly. And you know, the one thing I
(19:41):
will say is, you know, I got a lot of
pointers watching porn. Porn, orn, orn. I got a lot
of pointers watching orn. Yeah, porn, And like you know,
you know the way those guys, some of those guys
you know take it down their throats. I am just
(20:03):
so impressed do that.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
That's a spiral.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
It's an art and one of the things you know,
that that really separate us from the others, you know,
the ninety nine percenters over there. You know, uh is
sexist fun and sexes. I should be unashamed and and
out there. You should try as many different positions and
(20:30):
and and schems and and just to enjoy it because
sexuality is what defines us.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
And Brandon, speaking of that, you put a word in
the dictionary, correct.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yes, Bill, it's an urban dictionary, the VKG. Why the
Brandon kao yawn? I taught people how to give a
better blowjob, which is by yawning so that you open
up the back of your throat, lift that so off
palette and then you can take it for.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
The How do you yawn with your blo and how
do you yawn when you yawned.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah, when you yawn, you suppressed the gag replex exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So yeah, it's it's the when you don't yawn, it
constrains the vocal cords and then you're getting you know,
you're not going to get it all.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
The way Yeah, where you be, I know, And you
know the best thing about is when it gets all
the way down to your poicebox.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
There, give it a battle cry on that, dick, Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Did the work?
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
On my podcast we talk a lot about we're talking
about relationships, sex and identity, but I'm always talking about
sex because there's so much shame around it, especially for
women in queer fix because we've been trained to find
what we do as not sex or not or is
a sin or whatever, and so just having to undo
that and unpack that and then discovering that inside of
(22:07):
learning about sex, you really just learn about who you are.
So I call people on my show, we call each
other hose spelled h E a u X. It's a
fancy word, and my definition of it is someone who
commits to the liberation of themselves and others by thoughtfully
interrogating their relationship to sex. Using curiosity, communication and compassion and.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
So this, well, that's a mouthful.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
It is a mouthful, and you know we like a mouthful. Mack.
Come on, you got mack, You got.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Baby.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
So it's just like having those conversations and creating a
space to have conversations that it's not just about I
always say sex is not just about penetration, but it's
about conversation. It's about intimacy, it's about pleasure, it's about
you know, curiosity. Can you be curious about what you
love and what you don't love?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah? You know, I seem to remember in the days
before age, like when you would go to a bath
house in San Francisco, you were always engaging in conversation
with somebody outside them, you know, the showers, and then
you just saunter into a room, you know, and all
of a sudden you've discovered your long lost friend. Yes,
(23:20):
and you know, your alter ego or you know whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yes, I know, I love I love a bathhouse conversation.
The first time I went to a bath house, that
was my favorite part about it was sitting in the
jacuzzi and just talking and you know, like there without
there having to be anything sexual, just like a bunch
of men naked having conversations about life and whatever, and
then you know, you go in the steamer room and
do whatever. But that the that the the center of it.
The core of it was actually the community. It was
(23:46):
actually the emotional connection. I talk about having safe sex, safe,
being satisfying, affirming, freeing, and emotionally connected.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Stop, come on, you know, let's not.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Preach.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
K Yeah, you know, it's still a Mama Luyer.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You know, the relationships that I had lasting with my
gay and queer friends have always begun through a sexual encounter,
and I think those are the ones that last longer.
I don't know why. Maybe there's a little twinge in
the heart for that person as long as they're alive
and as you remember them. And that's special. You know
(24:30):
that I find now, even when I do go home
and visit my family, that I have so little in
common with them, you know, and that I have to
relate on their level because God knows, you know, they're
not going to turn around and just say to me,
you know, yeah, well yeah, I was a bad time.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I know.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
The blood family is so interesting because I know that everyone,
not everyone, but a lot of us try to hold
on to it, even when the blood family is not
necessarily the healthiest for us. Doesn't necessarily make us feel
our safest or make us feel our softest, you know,
if they do wonderful. But a lot of times, you know,
we talk about people going home for Thanksgiving and dreading it.
(25:16):
You know this generation that's you know, our generation and
gen Z that's coming up as going, Hey, if it's
not a safe place, I don't necessarily owe them anything.
Just because you know, you gave birth to me and
gave me a home which wasn't my choice to be here,
doesn't mean that I now have to I owe you
holidays or I owe you attention if you are not
(25:37):
a safe space. Yeah, you know, especially as queer folks,
I think that your your emotional safety is of the
utmost importance. And if your family, your blood is not that,
then it's okay. I say, you know, there's a boundary here,
and like I'm gonna I'm gonna spend time with my
chosen family, and I want to pour into the people
who pour into me, regardless of if we're related, regardless
(25:58):
of gender or sexual orientation or any of that. It's
like another human who's pouring it to me and I'm
pouring into them. That's where I want to be.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yes, well, I'm I'm really lucky on the blood family
thing because I have great support from all of my family.
In fact, for the fourth of July, my cousin always
throws a big family reunion, and since it had been
covid in that I hadn't been there in like five years,
(26:28):
and they all knew about the old days. Three of
them asked me for selfie and two of them asked
me to talk do a video for friends of theirs
who liked them. So I know, I'm a very, very
lucky guy. But I've got extremely strong blood family support.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's beautiful. And let me ask you, what is it
like being a celebrity now? Like going home and wonderful?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm still Bill.
Speaker 6 (27:02):
Okay, that's how I feel.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
I'm still Bill said.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
It's a lot of it's a lot of fun. Yeah,
it's almost every time you go out, somebody approaches you
for some reason or another.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And they all want to know how we started and that.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Kind of thing, and I tell them to read the book.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Welcome back to Silver Linings with the old gays.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I have two questions. One is, how do you muse
that we protect each other? You know, based off of
having lived a life where you've had to show up
for each other and where a lot of the rights
that my generation has is because of the fight that
your generation partook in. How do you muse that we
(28:08):
today take care of each other and show up for
each other technicogy.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Well, one of the things I wanted to just say
in background is you know a lot of people died
for our freedom. Reason, Yeah, and I think of them,
and so when I say something publicly, I think of
generations that are younger than me, particularly young people between
(28:34):
eighteen and twenty five, especially coming out. All of that
has given me the courage to join in. You know,
it's so important because we have to face this intimidation
(28:54):
and we have to stand up for who we are
because you know, there's no going going back into the closet.
Right the world is just too too complicated and diverse
in quite frankly fragmented place.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, what I hear you saying is that the visibility
is important, and that so whatever your whether you have
a big following or a small following, it's the courage
to say who you are, the truth of who you are,
and show up in that way. And the other piece
of it is, in terms of the activism, is that
it's not just for you. It's for who's come before
(29:30):
you and that's coming after you.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
You know, Like I can think of how many times
at work I would hear a gay slur or I
would think particularly I worked in television. Okay, I worked
in show business as an actor, and talk about being
behind the eight ball and having to you know, do
(29:52):
all of that stuff, and I just in the end refused.
And I suppose that cost me a career, but you know,
I'd rather be true to myself and to my my
peers then to be fake.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, it costs you your career, but gained you your peace.
And I don't think you can put a price on
one's piece of mind and one piece of heart. You know,
there's no there's no price sack for that piece for
being able to look at yourself in the mirror and.
Speaker 6 (30:22):
Say I I.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Know that I acted with the integrity that is aligned
with the truth of who I am.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
That is a that is an invaluable So it all
starts with self love. It really does getting getting to
that point. You know, self love is.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Something that we I talk about often on the show
and with friends, and I'm so curious your thoughts on
how one loves themselves. You know, how how do you
begin that process? Like what is the starting place of
learning to love yourself?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
It varies.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I think you recognize that you are special, that you
are unique, there's no other person like you, and understand
who you are and be the best at that image.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I think loving yourself begins with masturbation. A that's right, correct?
I mean where else is it gonna start? I mean
I think you know, I I learned to love myself
by pleasuring myself and realizing, you know, you're a hot
(31:35):
gay man and I wouldn't have it any other way
in this life.
Speaker 6 (31:43):
Yeah, giving yourself pleasure like learn that. I mean, that's funny,
but it's true.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
The masturbation and like learning how to love yourself and
not being ashamed of it and and giving yourself pleasure
is a form of self in the day. I feel
like with self love, I try to rend that it
doesn't have to be perfect. Sometimes I feel like those
pursuit it's not, but the pursuit of self love is
that like I'm a perfect person. It's like, no, it's
(32:07):
loving your flaws, it's loving your insecurities. It's it's loving
the best parts of you and the scary parts of you.
That to me is the journey of self love. That
you're not trying to be a perfect person who is
worthy of love.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I think we compensate for our what we feel our
deficiencies are because we're queer, and so there's this kind
of neuroticism that comes involved in being a perfectionist. Yes, yes,
and not living or having like issues of body consciousness
(32:43):
like that that's how we get worth yes, yes, And
I think, well, you know so much gay culture, Yeah,
unfortunately is a lot about that. It is about looks
and it's like you know, talking about aging, is that
the fear is that once you turn thirty you disappear
year and that isn't what happened. Thirty is when life begins. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
Yeah, oh my goodness. Yes, I'm thirty eight and I'm like,
I'm just getting started. It's not you are.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, you're a baby, baby baby.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Thank you, thank you for saying that, because I feel it.
I feel like a baby and I feel like I've
just begun. But there was a fear in my twenties
and my teenage yeers that like if I had to
be at a certain point by thirty, which I and
when I didn't hit that, that became scary.
Speaker 6 (33:30):
And then in the last few years it's been like.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Oh no, baby, Like some people may experience what looks
like externally the success or whatever they go out at
a certain age, but who you are as a person, Oh,
you don't know who the hell you are yet until
you're you're much further along. And that this I'm excited
about the journey. I'm excited about the forties and the
fifties and the sixties and it gets litter. My Angela
(33:55):
was like, there's her masterclass when she she said the eighties.
If you can make get to the eighties, the eighties
are fabulous, and I really love I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Is that is that right, Bob Phil.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, yeah, yes, I never thought i'd live this long.
I'm just just being able to enjoy myself now and
the freedom that I have. I mean, it's it's it's
the best time of my life.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
And I feel so content and like everything is almost
in its place where it needs to be. And as
long as there's not an external interruption, which is possible,
that life's gonna be nice to coastone out.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, And I think one of the rituals of passage
is actually to go through the death of your parents.
When my father died, I called a friend of mine
and I rang her up in London and I told
her that my father had died. And she said, oh,
you're an orphan now, yeah, And she said, you know,
(35:10):
that's not such a bad thing. And I said why,
And I said, well, you don't have anyone to answer
to now, you don't have to be something you're not
just to please them. Yeah, you're on your own. And
in so many ways that was true. I think with
both the loss of my parents, even though I grieved that,
(35:31):
I realized that there was a certain freedom.
Speaker 6 (35:35):
There is I have.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
The you know, as somebody who's strange, there's the emotional
you know, I talk about the physical passing of a
parent versus the emotional passing of a parent, So I
have the emotional one. And a friend of mine saw
a performance of mind and they were like, you're so free?
Is it because you're not in relationship with your mother?
And I had never considered it that like, oh, because
I'm not I'm no longer a representative of the bloodline,
(36:00):
I can kind of play.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
And explore yourself. Yeah, and you can. It's self actualization, Yes,
that's what they call it. And you know, you just
latch onto things that interest you and you do it
because they interest you and nobody else. And that's that's really,
I think the first step in being an adult.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
And that's where creativity comes from. Daring to take that step, yes,
is what generate new ideas.
Speaker 6 (36:38):
Can I ask, do.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Y'all have any grieving rituals? I have been musing that
as a culture, we are not good at talking about aging.
We're not good at talking about any kind of death, emotional, physical,
And so I'm so curious about building a grief practice
(36:59):
because you know, with the change is grief. With growth
comes grief. And so sometimes it's relationships, sometimes it's people.
Sometimes it's you know, a home that you lived in.
And I'm so curious if you have any thoughts on
or have your own grief rituals that you've built over
the years, ways in which you've allowed yourself to feel.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
I do, Yeah, I do. I use music for that
when I think about the dogs that I that Joel
and I had raised. I have specific music that I
selected for them so that whenever the music plays and
it's all usually classical music, I do cry and I
(37:40):
think about that. But you know that that was really special.
And and I even have music associated with people like
after I I divorced my ex, I selected a piece
of music that kind of summed up the relationship and
it in and let's just say, French.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
Lovely. How about the rest of you, any any grieving rituals.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Or well, I'm I'm right along with Mick as far
as that, because nothing gives me more inspiration or calms
me down than classical music, especially opera. I mean, it
is just it gets right into my soul and it
(38:31):
makes grieving a lot better for me, and I feel
wonderful when it's happening.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
Yeah, what particular music just uh Tasca.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Mario is sitting down and waiting for Taska to come
and he's writing the letter and then she comes in
and it just explodes with glory. They're both talking about
their love and going on after the pretended shooting in
that and it just it just.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
It's heartbreaking, isn't.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
It it's heartbreaking. I do know what's going to happen,
but it helps my grieving. You know they're grieving in
another way than I am. But it's even I had
a nervous breakdown. The only thing that helped me. I
(39:29):
had no libido, couldn't care about anything. The only thing
I cared about was opera. It's what kept me going.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
I remember when my partner passed away. It was the
most confusing time of my life because I had to
grow up. And I remember getting songs that I was
listening but I didn't realize I was that would just
like say something speak to where you are, and all
of a sudden you just break down crying. I've had
to sit on the fry side a freeway doing it
(40:01):
because I didn't know how to grieve. I thought I'd
have my black leather gloves, my big hat and go,
but society said, no, you don't do that. It was,
it was. It was quite a journey. I finally did
go to a support group to learn how to just live,
and it got me off of me and got me
(40:22):
helping another lady who had her son's remain sitting on
the fireplace or something, and I told her I says,
that's just death. It's just death hanging in your house.
Get it out. And we actually went out and did
the ship thing with him, and she says, this is
really good. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I says, yeah, it helped me too, to get through
it with you. You know, that reminds me of a
story about funerals. This is told to me. This family
they were burying one son who had died from HIV
and what at the other brother. It's who's key came in? Drag?
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (41:05):
How wild?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Now that's current that Wow.
Speaker 6 (41:12):
What a way to hunt way.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Yeah, oh that's awesome.
Speaker 6 (41:19):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I bet he wore flats. It's hard to work at
the stabilize.
Speaker 6 (41:26):
Those hills are a lot.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
I don't know, but I think he went into his
mother's closet. This was a very wealthy family in Beverly
Hill and I can't say the name, but she had
she was a former model, and she had an entire room.
You know how those danger they had walking closet, you know, Nicole,
(41:52):
it's all of that.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
Yes, Bob, do you have any grieving rituals?
Speaker 5 (42:00):
I become very quiet, very inner focused, and very analytical,
and I try to look at what the cause of
the grief as a problem to be solved and how
that fits into a larger picture, and to understand more
(42:28):
what's happening to what has happened to this piece of
that larger picture, and just kind of work it out
mentally until I reach a point that I'm satisfied I've
(42:49):
solved the problem and I can move on.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Well, actually, he can get quite emotional, so you.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
Know, he cries, he'll cry.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
He also knocks down doors with a hammer.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
So just there are too okay, perfect Brandon, Yes, to
wrap us up. Huh.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
What's been your silver lining for being a part of
the queer community?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
The permission, the invitation, and the embracing of being able
to be my full self? You know, I think that
there are as a queer person, you're really given the
runway to be an express how you want to. And
that is not always true when you're outside of the
(43:41):
queer community.
Speaker 6 (43:41):
There's a lot more boxes.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
And in the queer community, I felt like I've been
given permission to break the boxes and live, like to
build my own blueprint as opposed to follow following a
societal one. And so that has been a gift that
I will continue to honor and perish.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
Yes, yeah, thanks so much for sharing. It's so wonderful.
Thanks for being with, Thank you for listen.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Can I say before I go that this I was
so excited to come here. I know that the videos
that y'all do and the content that you create is
always so fun and joyful, but it also has the
greatest impact being like we started this conversation talking about representation,
and so to be able to see the four of you,
to see your friendship means so much to me and
(44:28):
so many people. And so thank you for for being
for being out loud, for using your platform, for bringing
joy to all of our hearts.
Speaker 6 (44:36):
It is just it's really healing in a way that
I won't.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Be able to fully explain to you, and you may
not fully be able to feel, but just know that
you are healing so many people by just being so
thank you.
Speaker 6 (44:52):
Thank you, Thank your friend and keep up your work.
Thank you. I will talk to you so.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
Love you.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
Is this a rap?
Speaker 4 (45:06):
We're done by?
Speaker 3 (45:10):
It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (45:12):
Thank you to everyone who tuned into our first season
of the show.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Silver Linings is a production of Iheart's Ruby Studios and
The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts Bill Lyons.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Robert Breeves, Mick Peterson, and Jesse Martin.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Our executive producer is Sierra Kaiser. The episode was written
by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zeiler. Our
theme music was composed by Max Heirschanau, with audio direction
and design by Matt Stillo. And don't forget to rate
(45:51):
and review the show whenever you get your podcasts. Thanks
for listening, all.
Speaker 5 (45:57):
Right, bye now bye bye bye bye bye bye eighty
five
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Mm hmm
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.