July 22, 2025 • 30 mins
Whether it's a curated bar, a crowded dance floor, a church basement, or an online chat room, LGBTQ+ spaces have long been sanctuaries for queer people. These are the places for meeting, connecting, and feeling celebrated as their true selves.
This week, The Old Gays take us on a nostalgic tour of the queer spaces that helped shape them: from mafia-run bars in St. Louis and San Francisco’s video lounges, to the institutions of West Hollywood and a legendary (and illegal) bathhouse in Silver Lake. Along the way, they reflect on the racism in nightlife, the evolution of Pride & protest in these spaces, the refuge of gyms & saunas, and what it means to feel free in your body, identity, and community.
What was Mick's notorious "dick patrol"? Which bathhouse had a circular urinal? And where in Palm Springs can you still buy greeting cards, dildos, and poppers under one roof? Uncovering these corners of queer life, this episode is a love letter to the many spaces and places that The Old Gays have called home.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ruby is definitely a queer space. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That was the first drag show I ever saw.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I said, guys, wash your mouths out and get out
of here.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles in steamy
Palm Springs, California, It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and
this is silver lining with the old games.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Have you ever been to a gay bar?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Robert me, never, I've never even heard of such a thing. Nick,
I can show you my play spaces.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
We're back, and hasn't silver Lining just been such a
delightful space to share our memory, thoughts, feelings, musings.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Ideas and all things gay.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
And oh, would you say this podcast is a queer
space then, Robert.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Well, yes, I would good.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Today's episode is all about the queer spaces, gay places,
and gathering spots that have supported us over the years
and continue to do so today.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Whether it's a venue, a club, or a weekly meeting group,
these spaces can have a great influence on how comfortable
we feel to let our authenticity bloom.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
And our free flag fly.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So, fellows, what comes to mind when you think of
queer spaces and how do you think they helped us?
Become who we are.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Certainly, I think bars and nightclubs of varying types have
played an important part in most all of our lives
because they've been places that we can meet other people
like us, such as back in Saint Louis. It was
(02:16):
not really until the seventies mid seventies that I became
comfortable in the gay spaces because in the late sixties,
when I was first exploring the gay world, the few
bars that existed in Saint Louis, they were all controlled
(02:42):
by the mafia that was well known in the community,
and they were all places where you had enter from
back alleys or dark parking lots, and they really weren't
that comfortable, but if you wanted to meet other people
(03:05):
like yourself, you were forced to go there.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That sounds very primitive.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
It was very primitive, and I think a lot of
it had to do with it being the Midwest. I
just kind of exploded when I moved to San Francisco.
Exploded in a good way.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And I hope you brought a towel.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
One of the earlier memories for me was seeing drag.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I don't think I ever witnessed a drag performance until
well in to the nineteen eighties in San Francisco and there.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You yeah, almost not everywhere.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
My first drag show was at the Go Go Club
in downtown Chattanooga. I can't remember this queen's name, but
I swear her legs were like ten feet tall and
she would kick them and go up and split, and
she had to be about sixty years old then, and
I'm going, how's she doing all that? But now I know,
don't we guys, We've learned all But that was cute
(04:16):
being in my little church village and then sneaking out
at twelve o'clock after room check and going downtown to Chattanooga.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
In San Francisco, I mean, the big star there was
Charles Pierce, who was an absolute legend in his own time.
He would be in a swing and he'd swing over
the entire audience, back and forth and back and forth.
(04:44):
And that was the first drag show I ever saw,
and it was probably the best one I've ever seen.
But I really didn't start out in bars because I'd
just come out in Laguna Beach when I was sixteen
years old. And my next step was Hollywood, and they
had a wonderful coffee shop called the eighty seven twenty
(05:08):
seven Melrose, and it was where young guys could go
and meet without having any interference from the police or
anything wandering the streets. So the eighty seven twenty seven
was a big savior for me because I had no
peers to talk about in high school and it really
(05:30):
filled the bill. But in the seventies and in the Castro,
the most popular place was the Midnight Sun where you
could go and they played the greatest videos, short clips
from Broadway shows, and it was just a fun place
(05:51):
to be. It was just a really happy time in
San Francisco.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Wasn't that one of the first video bar's ever anywhere?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah? For me.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
The first bar I walked into in West Hollywood was
in nineteen seventy eight, and it was a place called
the Blue Parrot. It was the first of its kind
west of the Mississippi. It was open windows, Florida ceiling
windows that looked onto Santa Monica Boulevard and you could
look into the bar to see who was there. And
(06:27):
the windows were painted in a very tropical kind of
scene of banana palms and that kind of stuff. So
it was very inviting and it was the first place
I saw Barchester guys behind the bar, and I knew
some of them from, as it turns out, from the
old Jim Morris Club that I was training at, which
was the first openly gay gym in America, and that
(06:51):
was opened by a man named Jim Morris who was
an Olympic weightlifter. He went to the Olympics and he
metaled and he was also the first professional bodybuilder.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
To come out.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
And he opened a gym hole in the wall gym
behind the skating rink at Los Aenega in Santa Monica.
There were coult models, professional porn stars, members of law enforcement.
It was a bodybuilder's gay heaven. I met a lot
of people there. You made dates and things like that,
(07:27):
I mean, exchange recipes and all that sort of stuff.
But when you were on the gym floor, you worked out.
It was a serious gym. It really shaped kind of
who I am.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Was there a big difference between gay gyms and straight gyms.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Well, it was a lot more fun. It was a
lot more naughty. I mean.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
For a few years I worked there at the front desk,
and so I had to do what we called dick patrol,
which means right before the gym closed, you had to
go around to all the little nixing cannies around the gym,
but particularly in the sauna. Never saw so many bodies
just flying on the other side of the wall. And
(08:13):
I said, guys, we're closing in fifteen minutes. Wash your
mouths out and get out of here. That's what I
used to say.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And that was the Dick patrol.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
That was Dick patrol. We used to do Dick Patrol.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Did you really tell them to wash their mouths out?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Oh cute quick, and they probably needed that they.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I have to tell you, I have never felt better
in a queer space than during the seventies and dancing
in San Francisco. I would get out there and I
would just let myself go on the dance floor, and
I absolutely loved it. I literally I was stepped out
(09:00):
of the body that was Bill and into another person
because it was just so exhilarating to be dancing with
all these hundreds of men.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
It was that disco music. It was this into your blood.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I mean, there were so many great places to go
and dance, and I literally felt like I had an
out of body experience when I was dancing. I just
let it all go.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, eight thousand club sparks for me and Miami. I
will never forget walking in there in my little twenty
eight inch waist jumpsuit white and the smell was in
there and I'm like, we're going, what is this? And
somebody heard me from around me and came just like
pop something in my nose and I inhaled because let's
(09:53):
just say, I dang. I was going, I went, what
is it? It's pauper's man, I go wow. And then
it came out on the other side and did the
same thing. Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And you know, let's not forget when the bars closed
and you hadn't picked up anyone. The natural place to
go was the baths for me, especially on the weekends,
and San Francisco had probably fifteen sixteen different bathhouses that
(10:37):
time in the seventies, and they were extremely extremely popular.
There was Rich Street south of Market, but then there
was also Dave's Baths down at the end of Broadway
in San Francisco, and that was always jammed with people.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Yeah, I really didn't when the baths all that much.
There is one place that I hold very dear in
my heart to me, however, and it was a place
called Prowl. This place, Prowl was the creation of one
Michael John. Inside it was like a three story building,
and the entire building was gutted and instead this wonderful
(11:23):
craftsman by the name of Michael Pereira, who was a
cult model and a mister iml. He lives out here
in the desert now and he built, literally rebuilt the
set for mad Mes Thunderdome. And so when you walked in,
you were transported to this wild world in which there
(11:47):
were dark crawl splaces. It was built on three levels,
and you took this big stairway up to the upper
level where there were crawl spaces in dark rooms. But
I remembered the very enter was like a jail, all
made of wood, and inside was a sling. And so
(12:07):
it was very much a place where the voyeurs and
the players would meet, and there are just some wild
nights about it. And I, like I said, I meant
a lot of hot guys there. And then remember this
is unlicensed, okay, this is like illegal okay. And there
(12:30):
too you would meet not undercover but off duty law enforcement,
because of course Michael was paying off the LAPD for it.
So that's how things had changed.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Times have changed.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Welcome back to silver Linings with the old gays.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
What are some other queer spaces that have had an
impact on your life?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Church is definitely a queer space. It's wonderful, was it? It
still is. Church is fun. People think of it as
this is boring religious place, but gay people, we bring
it all up. Every church I've been in is Luckily,
I've been in churches that have been open to days
and questioning because they didn't know a lot about it.
(13:36):
My current church is the same way. My pastor is
getting ready to go to a gay function that I'm
attending just to understand it. But then I just found
out his brother's gay too, huh.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Speaking of Also about other public spaces, there's a place
known as the One Institute, and it's based at USC
and it is the first research library into queer life.
And if you want to know the history of being
queer in America, not just in America but around the world,
(14:09):
there's an incredible resource library and it's a place to
really understand the history of being queer. But the beauty
of a gay bar or a place like the one institute.
These are places where you could just be yourself with
other people who were just being themselves.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Because back when I was first entering gay spaces, you
definitely experienced racism. This segregation was still there. When you
walked in, you still got stared at and people made
you feel like you weren't worth shit, why are you here?
And it hurt. It hurt dearly because I would go
(14:51):
in with this big smile, ready to go, and they
would turn around if there were a bunch of people
of color there, and so it was hard. But WHICH
through it and kept going back. But I've seen it evolve.
And the thing is, it's a two sided thing. It's
a two sided thing. But someday I hope we get
(15:13):
it in this country.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Yeah, when I first moved to Los Angeles, this was
a pretty racist place. And what changed it was the
civil unrest.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well I know that even before I moved to California,
the LA police had a reputation for targeting the gay community.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
I remember times actually where it wasn't safe in West Hollywood.
The parking lot at the Jim Morris Club when it
was the Athletic Club was on two sides of Westnell
and I remember walking from the parking lot on West
crossing the street to get to the entrance, and a
car pulled up and a guy pointed a gun at me.
(15:58):
And you know that that did exist, you know, and
that's why these were places of real refuge for us.
I don't think many people understand that now, you know,
because especially here, because California has become so much more accommodating,
(16:19):
because there are so many queer people here, you know,
at other minorities, you know, I mean, we're literally a
state of minorities.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, and so we all have to get along with each.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Other, and we all know we're in it together.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
You've often talked about activism throughout our conversations. Do you
want to talk about how that was a space for community.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (16:48):
It Actually what happens is is it kind of develops
within a queer space and then it moved outside. Like
my time at the athletic club coincided with AIDS, and
I remember many times the guys in the gym were
organizing the marches. And I also remember a demonstration in
(17:09):
the early nineties where this is when Pete Wilson, then
the governor of California, who said he was going to
support gay rights and then then turned around and signed
one of the most homophobic pieces of legislation. Basically he lied.
And there were protests, and I remember marching down Santa
(17:30):
Monica Boulevard, passed the gyms, and we marched down Los
Sienega and into the Beverly Center and we all got
in a huge circle in the Atrian and we owned
for about ten minutes. And at that point I felt
an energy I've never felt before, and I felt the
(17:51):
strength that we never had before. And you know, in
coalition with the Latinos who had been screwed over and
by a lot of other people in the state. As
a result of that, California is not a republican state anymore.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Yeah, I think when we're talking about being comfortable in
public spaces, we can't overlook the pride parades and pride
festivals that now exists throughout the country. But I know
that the first Pride parade I experience was in nineteen eighty,
(18:40):
right after I had a ride in San Francisco, and
going down to Market Street and being among hundreds of
thousands of your fellow human beings is one of the
most uplift thing magical experiences I think you can possibly describe.
(19:07):
And it's such a wonderful sight to see people in
that number celebrating life.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, yes, I remember I was at Palm Springs first
one here it was so cute and short in about
fifteen or twenty minutes at Ruth Hardie Park, and then
was Long Beach their first one downtown. They were small,
but they were so mighty, you know. And now to
see how both both have grown a lot, it's like, okay,
(19:39):
it's getting my la now.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And especially the Palm Springs Parade too. There are so
many straight people there that are just absolutely enjoying themselves
and talking.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
About the Palm Springs Parade. I know you and I
have talked about this before, but seeing the high school
group of the Jay straight Alliances, these young people marching
down the street, I go back to my high school
days where I'd have been kicked out. But the straight
(20:17):
gay alliances to me, are the highlight of the parade.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
What about any significant gay or queer owned spaces that
stand out to you either today or throughout your life.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Well, you know there are restaurants there or restaurants in
Los Angeles that were gay owned. One of them that
I was looking at was called the Academy, and the
Academy was a leather uniform kind of a place.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
You go there for like Sunday Brunch and the Big one.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Studio one, Hello Hello, Studio one, and the Batlot Hello,
that was gay owned. Yeah, uh, like Studio fifty four
was gayled. Studio one was in this big warehouse building
in West Hollywood, and it had the first I'd ever
seen of a circular urinal in the center. It also
(21:16):
had giant reels like to look like movie reels like
thirty five MILLI, you know, big prints, and they were
always hanging from the rafters. And the light show was fantastic.
And Studio one was experience. Studio One's the first secular
show that I ever did. I was scared shitless. The
(21:37):
owner didn't know who I was, but my partner went
in and killed till the show. He goes, well, do
you think you can fill it up? And he goes, yeah,
So I filled up two shows in the back lin.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, the back line. There's lots of cameras. Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
It was fun. It was It was I can't remember
anything bigger in my life. Musically than that because it
was the first the beginning, I had just gotten back
from the Philippines. I had shown their pads out here
wayts since everywhere it was it was cute. Oh and
I had hair, and I had a ponytail, a ponytail. Yeah,
the ear rings and the ponytail went away. But yes,
(22:13):
oh thanks for bringing that up, Nick.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Well, yeah, Studio one was an experience and I've forgotten
how much it's fun.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I oh, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
As far as queer owned places in Palm Springs, there
is one particular place that I have always loved and
you can find anything gay in there, and that is
the que Trading Company. I mean they have greeting cards,
(22:47):
they have magazines, they have books, they have calendars, they
have lube, they have poppers, they have dildo's. It's almost
it's like a gay department store. You can get anything
in the world there that you want that's gay. Where's
that It's right down from the tool shed on the
(23:11):
same side of the street, literally next door to the toolshed,
has been there for years and years. I think it's
next door to Gear.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
It's up from Gear. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
One of the things I enjoy so much particularly in uh,
my neighborhood of the Cathedral City Cove is seeing how
many houses display the Pride flag.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Every day, all day long.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And sometimes I'll get up on the roof of my
house and I've just looked over the neighborhood and I
see all of these Pride flags waving, and that gives
me a really wonderful fear belonging.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And also I think it's so great that at city
Hall right now that they are putting up the Pride
flag every morning.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Because they are all pride and gay.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yes, you know, I would be remiss.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
I think we would be remiss in not mentioning the
investment that Lance Bass has made in West Hollywood. He's
bought a couple of bars, yeah things, and really helped
to revive the street after COVID, because I don't know
if you know, but COVID really devastated the small businesses
(24:41):
in Los Angeles, and you know, the investment of somebody
of Lance's stature in West Hollywood should be recognized.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Plus he has a nice bar.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and doesn't he also have an underwear store?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah? I mean he bought like three or four properties
and that.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
What about online queer spaces I was reading where contrary
to what we have been talking about, that actually today
we are living in the golden age of gay liberation.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And the reason why are three things.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
I'm trying to remember them prep okay, GPS, location okay,
and dating apps. It doesn't matter whether you're on any
of them. The fact that those three things are now
a part of gay life means it's a freedom. It
exists in cyberspace. It is a whole new world, and
(25:44):
it has a whole different set of norms and values
and language and lingo. And I'm just learning.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And I really liked the old days of just walking
into a bar and you could talk to someone and
pick them up. But today it seems like the gays
that go to bars, it's strictly a social kind of
a thing and everyone is just talking together and everything.
(26:16):
And then of course when you want to go home,
first thing they do is they get onto the gay
dating sites. And I really preferred meeting someone in person
because on the gay dating sides, you don't really know
what you're dealing with.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Well, you should go to the toolshed, you should go
to a lot, you should go to the toolshed, because
behind the toolshale is a little business, the tools that's
where you can plump.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Down a little bit of money and go inside. And
it's a sex club.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Oh it's the one behind the antique mark.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
No, I'm through, you know, I'm my bi.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
When you were young, you pick up somebody at the
toolshed and then you go over to the other place.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
That wings you don't have to bring that person home.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Frequently, on the dating apps, I get these calls from
guys saying, meet me at the Toolship and then we'll
go next door.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Really, yes, times haven't changed, really, no, heaven't.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
In closing, let's ask the question what is our silver
lining about cultivating and being in queer spaces.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Well, mine is strictly being comfortable and at ease with myself.
That's what I love about it the most.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
And being able to discover who you are and interacting
with really very interesting people.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Them being around your people, Yeah, that makes the difference.
So many people are lonely out there.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Yeah, it feels natural to be among your friends.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
You know.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
For me, it's just simply about being myself, which is
a slut. Yeah I'm joking, not really.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's a place where you could be yourself.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
And where your friends are always alert to your needs.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I guess because you've got to have friends. You gotta
have friends.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
They're got friends.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
To make the day last long, hadsome friends. But they're gone.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Someone came and took him away. But from the dusk
until the dawn, here is where I'll stand.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yay, you're still you.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Young people are saying, what's that?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Thank you? Bet that alert?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
That's a wrap for today. Silver Linings is a production
of Iheart's, Ruby's Studio and The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Bill Lyons, Robert Brieves, M Peterson, and Jesse Martin.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Our executive producer is crar Kaiser. The episode was written
by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zyler. Our
theme music was composed by Matt Hirchinau, with audio direction
and design Matt Still And. If you're having fun with us,
(30:04):
please subscribe to follow along and don't forget to rate
and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks
for listening.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
All we do is spend our lives at doctors now.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
I tried all kinds of hair restoration products.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Don't work? Does it?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Our younger listeners are leal fun. This is what I
have to look forward to sleep,
Ruby is definitely a queer space. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That was the first drag show I ever saw.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
I said, guys, wash your mouths out and get out
of here.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
From just beyond the lights of Los Angeles in steamy
Palm Springs, California, It's Mick Robert Bill just say, and
this is silver lining with the old games.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Have you ever been to a gay bar?
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Robert me, never, I've never even heard of such a thing. Nick,
I can show you my play spaces.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
We're back, and hasn't silver Lining just been such a
delightful space to share our memory, thoughts, feelings, musings.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Ideas and all things gay.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
And oh, would you say this podcast is a queer
space then, Robert.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Well, yes, I would good.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Today's episode is all about the queer spaces, gay places,
and gathering spots that have supported us over the years
and continue to do so today.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Whether it's a venue, a club, or a weekly meeting group,
these spaces can have a great influence on how comfortable
we feel to let our authenticity bloom.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
And our free flag fly.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So, fellows, what comes to mind when you think of
queer spaces and how do you think they helped us?
Become who we are.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Certainly, I think bars and nightclubs of varying types have
played an important part in most all of our lives
because they've been places that we can meet other people
like us, such as back in Saint Louis. It was
(02:16):
not really until the seventies mid seventies that I became
comfortable in the gay spaces because in the late sixties,
when I was first exploring the gay world, the few
bars that existed in Saint Louis, they were all controlled
(02:42):
by the mafia that was well known in the community,
and they were all places where you had enter from
back alleys or dark parking lots, and they really weren't
that comfortable, but if you wanted to meet other people
(03:05):
like yourself, you were forced to go there.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That sounds very primitive.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
It was very primitive, and I think a lot of
it had to do with it being the Midwest. I
just kind of exploded when I moved to San Francisco.
Exploded in a good way.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And I hope you brought a towel.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
One of the earlier memories for me was seeing drag.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I don't think I ever witnessed a drag performance until
well in to the nineteen eighties in San Francisco and there.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You yeah, almost not everywhere.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
My first drag show was at the Go Go Club
in downtown Chattanooga. I can't remember this queen's name, but
I swear her legs were like ten feet tall and
she would kick them and go up and split, and
she had to be about sixty years old then, and
I'm going, how's she doing all that? But now I know,
don't we guys, We've learned all But that was cute
(04:16):
being in my little church village and then sneaking out
at twelve o'clock after room check and going downtown to Chattanooga.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
In San Francisco, I mean, the big star there was
Charles Pierce, who was an absolute legend in his own time.
He would be in a swing and he'd swing over
the entire audience, back and forth and back and forth.
(04:44):
And that was the first drag show I ever saw,
and it was probably the best one I've ever seen.
But I really didn't start out in bars because I'd
just come out in Laguna Beach when I was sixteen
years old. And my next step was Hollywood, and they
had a wonderful coffee shop called the eighty seven twenty
(05:08):
seven Melrose, and it was where young guys could go
and meet without having any interference from the police or
anything wandering the streets. So the eighty seven twenty seven
was a big savior for me because I had no
peers to talk about in high school and it really
(05:30):
filled the bill. But in the seventies and in the Castro,
the most popular place was the Midnight Sun where you
could go and they played the greatest videos, short clips
from Broadway shows, and it was just a fun place
(05:51):
to be. It was just a really happy time in
San Francisco.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Wasn't that one of the first video bar's ever anywhere?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah? For me.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
The first bar I walked into in West Hollywood was
in nineteen seventy eight, and it was a place called
the Blue Parrot. It was the first of its kind
west of the Mississippi. It was open windows, Florida ceiling
windows that looked onto Santa Monica Boulevard and you could
look into the bar to see who was there. And
(06:27):
the windows were painted in a very tropical kind of
scene of banana palms and that kind of stuff. So
it was very inviting and it was the first place
I saw Barchester guys behind the bar, and I knew
some of them from, as it turns out, from the
old Jim Morris Club that I was training at, which
was the first openly gay gym in America, and that
(06:51):
was opened by a man named Jim Morris who was
an Olympic weightlifter. He went to the Olympics and he
metaled and he was also the first professional bodybuilder.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
To come out.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
And he opened a gym hole in the wall gym
behind the skating rink at Los Aenega in Santa Monica.
There were coult models, professional porn stars, members of law enforcement.
It was a bodybuilder's gay heaven. I met a lot
of people there. You made dates and things like that,
(07:27):
I mean, exchange recipes and all that sort of stuff.
But when you were on the gym floor, you worked out.
It was a serious gym. It really shaped kind of
who I am.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Was there a big difference between gay gyms and straight gyms.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Well, it was a lot more fun. It was a
lot more naughty. I mean.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
For a few years I worked there at the front desk,
and so I had to do what we called dick patrol,
which means right before the gym closed, you had to
go around to all the little nixing cannies around the gym,
but particularly in the sauna. Never saw so many bodies
just flying on the other side of the wall. And
(08:13):
I said, guys, we're closing in fifteen minutes. Wash your
mouths out and get out of here. That's what I
used to say.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And that was the Dick patrol.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
That was Dick patrol. We used to do Dick Patrol.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Did you really tell them to wash their mouths out?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Oh cute quick, and they probably needed that they.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I have to tell you, I have never felt better
in a queer space than during the seventies and dancing
in San Francisco. I would get out there and I
would just let myself go on the dance floor, and
I absolutely loved it. I literally I was stepped out
(09:00):
of the body that was Bill and into another person
because it was just so exhilarating to be dancing with
all these hundreds of men.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
It was that disco music. It was this into your blood.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
I mean, there were so many great places to go
and dance, and I literally felt like I had an
out of body experience when I was dancing. I just
let it all go.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, eight thousand club sparks for me and Miami. I
will never forget walking in there in my little twenty
eight inch waist jumpsuit white and the smell was in
there and I'm like, we're going, what is this? And
somebody heard me from around me and came just like
pop something in my nose and I inhaled because let's
(09:53):
just say, I dang. I was going, I went, what
is it? It's pauper's man, I go wow. And then
it came out on the other side and did the
same thing. Okay, I get it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And you know, let's not forget when the bars closed
and you hadn't picked up anyone. The natural place to
go was the baths for me, especially on the weekends,
and San Francisco had probably fifteen sixteen different bathhouses that
(10:37):
time in the seventies, and they were extremely extremely popular.
There was Rich Street south of Market, but then there
was also Dave's Baths down at the end of Broadway
in San Francisco, and that was always jammed with people.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Yeah, I really didn't when the baths all that much.
There is one place that I hold very dear in
my heart to me, however, and it was a place
called Prowl. This place, Prowl was the creation of one
Michael John. Inside it was like a three story building,
and the entire building was gutted and instead this wonderful
(11:23):
craftsman by the name of Michael Pereira, who was a
cult model and a mister iml. He lives out here
in the desert now and he built, literally rebuilt the
set for mad Mes Thunderdome. And so when you walked in,
you were transported to this wild world in which there
(11:47):
were dark crawl splaces. It was built on three levels,
and you took this big stairway up to the upper
level where there were crawl spaces in dark rooms. But
I remembered the very enter was like a jail, all
made of wood, and inside was a sling. And so
(12:07):
it was very much a place where the voyeurs and
the players would meet, and there are just some wild
nights about it. And I, like I said, I meant
a lot of hot guys there. And then remember this
is unlicensed, okay, this is like illegal okay. And there
(12:30):
too you would meet not undercover but off duty law enforcement,
because of course Michael was paying off the LAPD for it.
So that's how things had changed.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Times have changed.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Welcome back to silver Linings with the old gays.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
What are some other queer spaces that have had an
impact on your life?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Church is definitely a queer space. It's wonderful, was it? It
still is. Church is fun. People think of it as
this is boring religious place, but gay people, we bring
it all up. Every church I've been in is Luckily,
I've been in churches that have been open to days
and questioning because they didn't know a lot about it.
(13:36):
My current church is the same way. My pastor is
getting ready to go to a gay function that I'm
attending just to understand it. But then I just found
out his brother's gay too, huh.
Speaker 5 (13:46):
Speaking of Also about other public spaces, there's a place
known as the One Institute, and it's based at USC
and it is the first research library into queer life.
And if you want to know the history of being
queer in America, not just in America but around the world,
(14:09):
there's an incredible resource library and it's a place to
really understand the history of being queer. But the beauty
of a gay bar or a place like the one institute.
These are places where you could just be yourself with
other people who were just being themselves.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Because back when I was first entering gay spaces, you
definitely experienced racism. This segregation was still there. When you
walked in, you still got stared at and people made
you feel like you weren't worth shit, why are you here?
And it hurt. It hurt dearly because I would go
(14:51):
in with this big smile, ready to go, and they
would turn around if there were a bunch of people
of color there, and so it was hard. But WHICH
through it and kept going back. But I've seen it evolve.
And the thing is, it's a two sided thing. It's
a two sided thing. But someday I hope we get
(15:13):
it in this country.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Yeah, when I first moved to Los Angeles, this was
a pretty racist place. And what changed it was the
civil unrest.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well I know that even before I moved to California,
the LA police had a reputation for targeting the gay community.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
I remember times actually where it wasn't safe in West Hollywood.
The parking lot at the Jim Morris Club when it
was the Athletic Club was on two sides of Westnell
and I remember walking from the parking lot on West
crossing the street to get to the entrance, and a
car pulled up and a guy pointed a gun at me.
(15:58):
And you know that that did exist, you know, and
that's why these were places of real refuge for us.
I don't think many people understand that now, you know,
because especially here, because California has become so much more accommodating,
(16:19):
because there are so many queer people here, you know,
at other minorities, you know, I mean, we're literally a
state of minorities.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, and so we all have to get along with each.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Other, and we all know we're in it together.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
You've often talked about activism throughout our conversations. Do you
want to talk about how that was a space for community.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (16:48):
It Actually what happens is is it kind of develops
within a queer space and then it moved outside. Like
my time at the athletic club coincided with AIDS, and
I remember many times the guys in the gym were
organizing the marches. And I also remember a demonstration in
(17:09):
the early nineties where this is when Pete Wilson, then
the governor of California, who said he was going to
support gay rights and then then turned around and signed
one of the most homophobic pieces of legislation. Basically he lied.
And there were protests, and I remember marching down Santa
(17:30):
Monica Boulevard, passed the gyms, and we marched down Los
Sienega and into the Beverly Center and we all got
in a huge circle in the Atrian and we owned
for about ten minutes. And at that point I felt
an energy I've never felt before, and I felt the
(17:51):
strength that we never had before. And you know, in
coalition with the Latinos who had been screwed over and
by a lot of other people in the state. As
a result of that, California is not a republican state anymore.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Yeah, I think when we're talking about being comfortable in
public spaces, we can't overlook the pride parades and pride
festivals that now exists throughout the country. But I know
that the first Pride parade I experience was in nineteen eighty,
(18:40):
right after I had a ride in San Francisco, and
going down to Market Street and being among hundreds of
thousands of your fellow human beings is one of the
most uplift thing magical experiences I think you can possibly describe.
(19:07):
And it's such a wonderful sight to see people in
that number celebrating life.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, yes, I remember I was at Palm Springs first
one here it was so cute and short in about
fifteen or twenty minutes at Ruth Hardie Park, and then
was Long Beach their first one downtown. They were small,
but they were so mighty, you know. And now to
see how both both have grown a lot, it's like, okay,
(19:39):
it's getting my la now.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And especially the Palm Springs Parade too. There are so
many straight people there that are just absolutely enjoying themselves
and talking.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
About the Palm Springs Parade. I know you and I
have talked about this before, but seeing the high school
group of the Jay straight Alliances, these young people marching
down the street, I go back to my high school
days where I'd have been kicked out. But the straight
(20:17):
gay alliances to me, are the highlight of the parade.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
What about any significant gay or queer owned spaces that
stand out to you either today or throughout your life.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Well, you know there are restaurants there or restaurants in
Los Angeles that were gay owned. One of them that
I was looking at was called the Academy, and the
Academy was a leather uniform kind of a place.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
You go there for like Sunday Brunch and the Big one.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
Studio one, Hello Hello, Studio one, and the Batlot Hello,
that was gay owned. Yeah, uh, like Studio fifty four
was gayled. Studio one was in this big warehouse building
in West Hollywood, and it had the first I'd ever
seen of a circular urinal in the center. It also
(21:16):
had giant reels like to look like movie reels like
thirty five MILLI, you know, big prints, and they were
always hanging from the rafters. And the light show was fantastic.
And Studio one was experience. Studio One's the first secular
show that I ever did. I was scared shitless. The
(21:37):
owner didn't know who I was, but my partner went
in and killed till the show. He goes, well, do
you think you can fill it up? And he goes, yeah,
So I filled up two shows in the back lin.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, the back line. There's lots of cameras. Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
It was fun. It was It was I can't remember
anything bigger in my life. Musically than that because it
was the first the beginning, I had just gotten back
from the Philippines. I had shown their pads out here
wayts since everywhere it was it was cute. Oh and
I had hair, and I had a ponytail, a ponytail. Yeah,
the ear rings and the ponytail went away. But yes,
(22:13):
oh thanks for bringing that up, Nick.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Well, yeah, Studio one was an experience and I've forgotten
how much it's fun.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I oh, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
As far as queer owned places in Palm Springs, there
is one particular place that I have always loved and
you can find anything gay in there, and that is
the que Trading Company. I mean they have greeting cards,
(22:47):
they have magazines, they have books, they have calendars, they
have lube, they have poppers, they have dildo's. It's almost
it's like a gay department store. You can get anything
in the world there that you want that's gay. Where's
that It's right down from the tool shed on the
(23:11):
same side of the street, literally next door to the toolshed,
has been there for years and years. I think it's
next door to Gear.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
It's up from Gear. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
One of the things I enjoy so much particularly in uh,
my neighborhood of the Cathedral City Cove is seeing how
many houses display the Pride flag.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Every day, all day long.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And sometimes I'll get up on the roof of my
house and I've just looked over the neighborhood and I
see all of these Pride flags waving, and that gives
me a really wonderful fear belonging.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And also I think it's so great that at city
Hall right now that they are putting up the Pride
flag every morning.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Because they are all pride and gay.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yes, you know, I would be remiss.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
I think we would be remiss in not mentioning the
investment that Lance Bass has made in West Hollywood. He's
bought a couple of bars, yeah things, and really helped
to revive the street after COVID, because I don't know
if you know, but COVID really devastated the small businesses
(24:41):
in Los Angeles, and you know, the investment of somebody
of Lance's stature in West Hollywood should be recognized.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Plus he has a nice bar.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, and doesn't he also have an underwear store?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah? I mean he bought like three or four properties
and that.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
What about online queer spaces I was reading where contrary
to what we have been talking about, that actually today
we are living in the golden age of gay liberation.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And the reason why are three things.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
I'm trying to remember them prep okay, GPS, location okay,
and dating apps. It doesn't matter whether you're on any
of them. The fact that those three things are now
a part of gay life means it's a freedom. It
exists in cyberspace. It is a whole new world, and
(25:44):
it has a whole different set of norms and values
and language and lingo. And I'm just learning.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And I really liked the old days of just walking
into a bar and you could talk to someone and
pick them up. But today it seems like the gays
that go to bars, it's strictly a social kind of
a thing and everyone is just talking together and everything.
(26:16):
And then of course when you want to go home,
first thing they do is they get onto the gay
dating sites. And I really preferred meeting someone in person
because on the gay dating sides, you don't really know
what you're dealing with.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Well, you should go to the toolshed, you should go
to a lot, you should go to the toolshed, because
behind the toolshale is a little business, the tools that's
where you can plump.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Down a little bit of money and go inside. And
it's a sex club.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Oh it's the one behind the antique mark.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
No, I'm through, you know, I'm my bi.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
When you were young, you pick up somebody at the
toolshed and then you go over to the other place.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
That wings you don't have to bring that person home.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
Frequently, on the dating apps, I get these calls from
guys saying, meet me at the Toolship and then we'll
go next door.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Really, yes, times haven't changed, really, no, heaven't.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
In closing, let's ask the question what is our silver
lining about cultivating and being in queer spaces.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Well, mine is strictly being comfortable and at ease with myself.
That's what I love about it the most.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
And being able to discover who you are and interacting
with really very interesting people.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Them being around your people, Yeah, that makes the difference.
So many people are lonely out there.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Yeah, it feels natural to be among your friends.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
You know.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
For me, it's just simply about being myself, which is
a slut. Yeah I'm joking, not really.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's a place where you could be yourself.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
And where your friends are always alert to your needs.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I guess because you've got to have friends. You gotta
have friends.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
They're got friends.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
To make the day last long, hadsome friends. But they're gone.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Someone came and took him away. But from the dusk
until the dawn, here is where I'll stand.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yay, you're still you.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Young people are saying, what's that?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Thank you? Bet that alert?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
That's a wrap for today. Silver Linings is a production
of Iheart's, Ruby's Studio and The Outspoken Network. We're your hosts.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Bill Lyons, Robert Brieves, M Peterson, and Jesse Martin.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Our executive producer is crar Kaiser. The episode was written
by Ryan Amador with post production by Eric Zyler. Our
theme music was composed by Matt Hirchinau, with audio direction
and design Matt Still And. If you're having fun with us,
(30:04):
please subscribe to follow along and don't forget to rate
and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks
for listening.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
All we do is spend our lives at doctors now.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
I tried all kinds of hair restoration products.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Don't work? Does it?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Our younger listeners are leal fun. This is what I
have to look forward to sleep,
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