July 11, 2024 • 24 mins
For decades, Bobbi Brown has used her light touch and expert eye to allow people’s natural beauty to shine. That’s why we are so excited that the beauty brand founder and makeup artist is joining us for an in-depth discussion about aging.
There’s no turning back time and no magic in a bottle, so how do we accept the inevitable changes to our skin as we age? Listen in to Bobbi’s refreshing insight into caring for our skin and nourishing our bodies from the inside out. Also on hand is a board-certified dermatologist and founder of Skinclusive Dermatology, Dr. Adeline Kikam.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
So let's get real.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Who amongst us hasn't thought a little bit about our
skin in the context of aging. There's been so much
pressure for us to do so many things, from creams
to lasers, pills, procedures, fillers.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
The options are endless.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So to cut through all those layers, we're bringing in
someone who's lived in the beauty industry for decades and
who has a unique and refreshing approach to aging. That's right,
it's the one and only Bobby Brown.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
If I look in the mirror and I don't look good,
you know what I do? I stop looking and I
think for a second, all right, why do I look
so bad? Is the lighting bad?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Is the mirror bad?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Or have I been working too hard? Not balanced? Exhausted?
What did I eat last night? So to me, it's
so much lifestyle and its attitude.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hi guys, and welcome. I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm Nicole Berry and this is Skin Querries, a show
all about our skin and its health as we grow in.
Our skin is really a record of a life well lived,
because there isn't one body part that I could think
of that reflects our well being as clearly as our
skin So let's go on this journey together to really
understand what's going on with our skin. Let's unravel the
(01:14):
mysteries happening inside and out.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Today we're talking about aging.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
We can't do an entire season talking about skin and
health without talking about aging. Whether it's sun spots, lines, wrinkles, creases,
there's no turning back the clock. Aging is inevitable. Our
personal choice is in how we deal with it. So
for me, I like to feel my best, and that
means taking care of my body, taking care of what
(01:46):
I eat, how I move, And my skin routine actually
is quite simple. I love cleansing my skin with a
honey cleanser, I do a simple toner and moisturizer, and.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'm on my way.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
If I'm going to be in the sun, I add
sunlaw and I do love having fun with facials and
the occasional laser. But for the most part, it's pretty simple.
Perhaps in an alternate universe, aging gracefully would simply refer
to healthy living and taking care of ourselves. We'd value
the wisdom of our elders and see their lived experience
as something to celebrate and not to actually hide. But
(02:21):
for now, I'd say, aging confidently and quote unquote naturally
is a fairly radical approach. Even the term naturally can
mean different things to so many different people. There's so
much to think about today. We'll speak with dermatologists doctor
Adeline Kickham, but first the founder of Jones Road Beauty
and in my mind a cultural and beauty icon. It's
(02:43):
none other than Bobby Brown.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
And I'm the one you thought of about aging.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I know I'm very young at heart, to be honest,
the reason that I thought of you first is because
in all of our conversations that we've had, I guess
present yourself as you are, as you truly are has
always been, I feel like, one of your values and
I've always respected that so much since I was a teenager.
(03:10):
Right getting your book Teenage Beauty, it was kind of
like the Bible that everyone wanted for the holidays. And
like I remember using your books and your manuals pre TikTok,
pre Instagram as like how to feel my best. It
was never ever cover myself. It was always like present
myself as I am. And so now I'm in my
forties and with each step you've grown with me and
(03:32):
with I think my generation and many others.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
So I guess, broad scope, what is your approach when
it comes to beauty.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, first of all, I don't feel any older than
you are. I don't think of myself as any older
than you are. I don't. I don't think of myself
in terms of, oh my god, I can't believe how
old I am. And by the way, I've come a
long way since I was your age or younger about
how I felt about myself, about the food I put
in my body, the angst I had about what I'm eating.
(04:02):
And I am at the best place I've been in
my whole life. And I'm not even in my mid
sixties anymore. I'm sixty seven, which is insane to me.
And I really believe in skin being the most important
part of beauty.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It's not about if you have lines or don't. It's
not about if you have blemishes or don't. It's really
just about how your skin looks, and it is such
a sign of health. Right. It's not what you put
on your face, it's what you put in your body.
You know, as someone that makes products, I know that firsthand.
I know That's why when I look in the mirror,
I don't look so bad. I look okay because I
(04:37):
eat really well. And by the way, I do get laser.
I don't shoot anything in my face. I don't do injectables.
I don't, you know, do any of Botot's anything. But
I will do every laser that someone says doesn't hurt
that bad, and it is going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You started as a makeup artist, right when did you
make that connection when it came to letting them skin
actually or the actual person like shine versus just covering
them up.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You know. I started being a freelance makeup artist in
the eighties, you know, mid to high eighties, and I
just couldn't do makeup the way other people did it
with you know, this awful foundation and contour. I just
didn't look good. And I just realized how good the
girls looked when they came in. So I started doing
makeup just to make them look sunny and healthy. And
(05:28):
I used to study kind of like the Self magazine
beauty pages where the girls look so good, and I
would take makeup to kind of, you know, mimic that
on models. So I realized that looking fresh was what
mattered to me in beauty. But then I also at
the same time, I was someone that was going from
diet to diet to diet, to cleanse to cleanse, to realize, Okay,
(05:53):
this is really stupid. I should just find food that
makes me feel good when I eat, and I should
bring it with me because things were not readily available.
And that was, you know, in the early nineties. Wow,
people thought I was weird. I'd come in with the
tupperwaar with my chop salad, and I'd have baggies of vegetables,
so I wouldn't like sit there and eat breadsticks all
(06:13):
day on these gourmet shoots right at you know, during
fashion week or whatever, and I just realized I looked better,
I felt better eating better, and so my holistic approach
kind of began then. But I also was experimenting with
like the weirdest cleanses and diets and things, and finally
(06:34):
I said this is stupid and I stopped.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
When it comes to skincare, anti aging is such a
ubiquitous term. What is your kind of verbiage or that language?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Is it harmful? Do you use that?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I don't believe in anti aging because guess what, I'm
older now than I was when we started this podcast,
right and there's nothing on the market that turns back time.
There's just nothing. It doesn't work. There's nothing on the
market that really gets rid of your spots. There's nothing
on the market that gets rid of lines in your face.
There are moisturizers on the market that make your lines
(07:10):
look better, and there's makeup that could cover your spots.
But if I have spots, that means I'm not wearing
proper sunscreen. Now, when I'm in the sun, I wear
a long sleeve SBF shirt. And you know, I live
in Florida three months a year. I don't want to
look like I live in Florida. So I'm very protective
of my skin.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And so how much does mindset come into play when
it comes to aging.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I mean, you took the words out of my mouth.
It's mindset. It's your attitude. You know, many of you,
many of us need attitude adjustments. So there's times where
I look in the mirror and I just say, oh
my god, I look so old, or I look in
the mirror and I say, oh my god, I look
like my mother. Like that is the you know, kind
of like, ah, you know, my mother was a beautiful woman.
(07:55):
But at the end of her life. You know, didn't
look so good. She didn't take proper care of herself,
definitely didn't have a positive attitude about things. If I
look in the mirror and I don't look good, you
know what I do? I stop looking and I think
for a second, I'm like, all right, why do I
look so bad? Is the lighting bad? Is the mirror bad?
Or have I been working too hard? Not balanced? Exhausted?
(08:17):
What did I eat last night?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I had two drinks and not one, and I had
martini with olives and not you know, water like So
to me, it's so much lifestyle and its attitude. I
have a mirror in two places I live, and it's
a full length mirror. It costs me about nine dollars
at like Kmart or wal Mart or somewhere, and it's
(08:40):
on an angle and it was only supposed to be temporary.
But when I look in the mirror, I look really tall,
and I love it, and I refuse to get rid
of it. My husband's like, let's buy a really nice
one and put it on the wall. I said, absolutely not.
I like this mirror because I like looking at myself
a certain way. And I'm five foot tall. I'm not tall,
(09:01):
but it's you know, it makes me happy. I walk
out of the house and I feel like a supermodel
and I don't care. Yeah, it's fine. And I also
know lighting is everything.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Can Bobby Brown tell us what the keys are to
good lighting?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, my favorite light is daylight. I often do things
in my car. I put my makeup on, you know,
when I'm in the parking lot to my office or
when I'm sitting in my office.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You know, I so natural light when you apply makeup.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
If I have the option, natural light is best. Like
I could look in the mirror and I'm fine with
the lines in my forehead. There's lines around my mouth
because they're supposed to be right. And you know, I
don't have full lips, so I don't wear a ton
of lipstick. I have really good cheeks, so I always
put blush on. But my neck I put moisturizer on.
It looks better. But it's not my favorite part of
(09:52):
my anatomy. You know, I've kind of taught the people
in my organization who video me and shoot me like
guys batting.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, cut that, Like.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
You can't be a sixty seven year old makeup artist
doing a makeup thing and your head is down dipping
into the products. No, guys, right up, And if you
don't like it, I don't care. Then you know, just
cut to my hands, which, by the way, I don't
love my hands anymore, but they're my hands, right, you know,
they're my hands.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
What about when you were younger, like earlier influences, whether
it was your mom or someone growing up that kind
of you know, formed your perspective on beauty.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well in a negative way. As much as my mother
was a very big supporter, she was also wanting me
to be beautiful. That she once came to me and
told me I was very pretty, but I'd be beautiful
if I had my nose fixed. I never once complained
about my nose. I never had it fixed. And you know,
there was definitely insecurities. But the woman that made the
(10:48):
biggest difference in me where I said I'm okay the
way I am was when I was in either middle
school or beginning of high school and Love Story came
out and I saw Ali McGraw and she had, you know,
big eyebrows and these freckles on her nose and very
little makeup and you know, hair parted in the middle,
and I remember looking at her saying, my god, she's gorgeous.
(11:09):
And then I said, ah, she kind of looks like me,
or I kind of look like her, And so I
was able to kind of say, all right, I understand
my own beauty. I'm not Sheryl Tigus or Christy Brinkley
or Barbie.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah right, I mean to that credit, I mean even
behind you, all the faces that are representative of you
and Joanes Road I love. One of my favorite things
of walking into your story is that wall. It's almost
like magazine cutouts. Reminds me of like my bedroom as
a kid. How important is it for you to show
different faces and different types of skin tone, age.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I mean, it's everything. And I've always been someone that
believed in every single woman's beautiful. And it doesn't matter
what your age is, what your ethnicity is, what your
coloring is. You know, my job is to represent everyone.
And these girls on the wall are actually for our
next shoot, which is tomorrow. So we had their pictures,
you know, which are on the top where they're all
made up, and we tore them out of their portfolios
(12:07):
and you know in the bottom, we asked them all
to send pictures of them without any makeup on, and
so you know that's kind of what you're looking at now.
I just I tape things up on walls and change them.
And you know, we started taping them up on walls
in the Jones Road stores and that's now become our signature.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I love it. I think it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
How important are ingredients to you, whether it's what's being
put in or what's not being.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Put in to a product, Very important, very important. I
mean I'm someone that you know I eat or I
shop organically. Let's say, Okay, I eat out in restaurants
a lot. So I'm not going to say I eat
exclusive organic because I don't. I have let go on
any neurosis about making things not work for me food wise,
(12:55):
because they're not supposed to work. You know, there's so
much noise that like goes into our head and what
you should and shouldn't eat. I've tried to be a vegan.
I can't. My body craves meat. I eat meat. I
try to eat the best kind of meat, not too
much of it. I've tried to quit coffee. I can't.
I try to do singles. I go back to double
I try to do organic, I go back to an espresso.
(13:16):
I'm like, okay, Bobby, stop making yourself crazy. Do what
feels good.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
We kind of talked about, you know, injectables and things
like cosmetic surgery, that you do not do those things right?
What is your I guess message to someone who is
thinking about it but scared or feels pressured to do it.
Of course, if someone wants to do it, they could
do what they want. But if they're feeling pressure to
do it, what would your advice be?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Well, who's pressuring you? Number one? And you can always
do it. You don't have to rush into something. You know,
there's certain things you do which are permanent. You know
you're going to get a tattoo, smack on your neck
or your ankle. Guys, it's permanent. You know you're gonna
shoot something in your face, you know once or so
it's not that permanent. But once you start. I always
(14:01):
say to people, it's like going into your garden. Have
you ever tried weeding? Where do you stop? I have
choice in my life done botox when I was in
my early forties a it had just come out. It
wasn't as scary then, but it didn't work for me.
My husband until the other day didn't even know it
because I was too scared to tell him. One time
I had an eye droop and another time I had
(14:24):
one eyebrow that was up to a point, and I
remember saying myself, Okay, dude, don't do it. This isn't
for you. Someone sending you a message. And I also
realize at a certain age, if I did botox now,
it wouldn't match the rest of my face, Like you
can't have a forehead that doesn't move in a neck
that does right right, it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Having so many of these conversations about the skin, I'm
realizing more and more that the choice is really ours
when it comes to taking care of our own skin.
Just like I follow my intuition with what I eat
and what I do, the same goes for skincare. I
know that I always want to be making a conscious
choice of what I'm doing versus listening to some social
(15:06):
media advice or even my friends. I need to bring
the choice into my own and this is where I'd
like to bring in Doctor Adeline Kickup. As a board
certified dermatologist, she's seen this pressure firsthand, coming up right
after the break, welcome back. You know, as a mom
(15:32):
of a daughter, I'm always thinking about how much pressure
girls in their teens, preteens, even in their twenties and older,
particularly on Instagram and on social media, and I wanted
to speak with doctor Kikum about feeling that pressure and
how it affects her patience.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And I think is more higher for gen ziers because
they are inundated with this right in the palm of
their hands. They are very self critical of your appearances,
so when they come to the office, there's this urge
to really move what I can move faster than your
shadows when it comes to appearance, right, they want your
nose to look a certain way, they want your chicks
(16:11):
to look a certain way, and I'm like, you're still growing.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right, And the point of reference is usually someone who's
actually like augmented their face most likely.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
And then we also have the filters that are creating
very unreasonable expectations. So it's reassuring them, educating them that
what they're seeing. They have to be cognizant that it's
not real a lot of times, and nobody is that perfect. Right.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
It's interesting that you're a medical doctor and you actually
have to explain something that's out of the medical field.
You know that these filters are not real, that these
are augmented, because our reality, or a young person's reality,
is cute.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Very very true, and it helps for them to hear
it from me because sometimes parents are frustrated, you know,
the kid harasses the parents about oh I look like this,
I don't like this, so they want to hear from
a different expert to really break it down to them
and say, hey, you're still growing. You think your face
is going to be always like this, but it's not.
(17:13):
Let's not do certain things prematurely. Let's wait till you
know you're an adult age where you can have a
greater insight on some of these things and personalizing your routine,
personalizing your skin health to something that makes sense for them,
something that is achievable, something that is doable, and really
(17:34):
really building up.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Your self esteem.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
And then for older patients, they are coming in wanting
to feel better about themselves. Right, Maybe they grew up
in an era that they didn't have access to certain procedures,
whether cosmetic or whatever, or they just feel like they're
in a certain profession, maybe like sales, and these are
all people that are growing through societal pressures. So for me,
(18:00):
it is reassuring and managing expectations within that natural process
of aging of what can you do and still do
things in a healthy manner. The idea is to never
as a doctor, do any harm, to go overboard when
it comes to your cosmetic options or just even general
(18:21):
skin care advice.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Doctor Adeline says it's important that we don't think of
our skin and its aging simply as an aesthetic issue.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Just like you go for checkups or your kidneys, your heart.
Skin is the same way. So much of the fixation
shouldn't be on the esthetics as much as what is
happening to the structural integrity and the function that we're
talking about when we say we're aging. So I want
to educate people to know what is going on from
that perspective. Now why you should use sun protection instead
(18:52):
of just saying, you know, let's talk about how we
could diminish your wrinkles, but what is happening when you
go out under the sun. You what we call oxidative
damage is happening can increase your risk to cancer. So
instead of just emphasizing just the esthetic part, I try
to remind them of the medical part. When you start
(19:14):
looking at the skin as an organ and the reasons
why you're doing some of these things, not wholly from
a cosmetic but from a medical perspective, it really centers you.
And even as a dermatologist, I don't like the term
aging gracefully, like it puts so much pressure on people
to be youthful or to focus on the youthfulness of
(19:34):
the aging process and doing everything to counteract that instead
of recognizing that we're aging, and how do we support
the skin true is decline in structural integrity and function?
How do we make our skin work for us in
our skin care?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Can wrinkles or sagging skin ever become an actual medical
problem or is it simply just a culture norm that
we expect not to have these things.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
So it's a fine line, especially in dermatology, because we
are dealing with an organ that is also very visible.
You know. I joke with my cadeologist friends and I'm like,
you're just so lucky your organ is like inside.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Right, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
So there's because the skin is open to a lot
of interpretations, you know, people's standards of beauty, esthetics and
so many things. But there are medical issues that happen
in the framework of everything as well.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
You know, people come to the clinic for a different
concerns sometimes, right, and I'm examining them, I'm like, wait,
I'm not concerned about your hyperpigmentation, right, and I'm concerned
about that model that is changing, that needs to be
biopsyn So this is happening in the framework of other things, right,
the wrinkles, the dullness that is happening, and sometimes we
(20:55):
have new lesions, new molds popping up on the skin.
So you have to be able to when evaluating a patient,
look past what is just merely cosmetic to find what
may potentially affect your life, like a melanoma.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's a message we've come back to so many times
in this podcast. Our skin is an important marker of
our health and well being, so it's important to pay
attention to it and to care for it. Thank you
so much, doctor Adeline Kicom for your perspective.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
You're welcome. Let's bring Bobby back for the last word today.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Do you think as far as like leaving our listener
with I guess simple practical step that they can take
with them to improve their relationship to their skin. Whether
that be actually pragmatic things that they could do or
just a mindset shift.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
What would you say, Well, think about what you're putting
in your body first, and make sure you have enough hydration.
It's a struggle I have.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I have water everywhere I go.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
There's a huge difference if I do hydrate myself correctly
and if I don't. So that's number one. And also,
you know, just know what food you eat that makes
your skin look bad. Not everyone has to be dairy free,
not everyone has to be gluten free. I'm not allergic
to gluten. I could eat gluten, but I feel better
(22:12):
if I don't do it that often, and I feel
better if it's good quality bread over anything. But I'm
only making those choices for me, and I'm not telling
people they have to do what I do. But I
just want people to pay attention to what goes in
their body. I mean, I stopped eating sugar to make
me feel good, you know, and everyone's like, how did
you do that? I'm like, because I'd rather have a cocktail.
(22:35):
I won't give up my cocktail.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Well, thank you, Bobby, I really appreciate you taking the
time and chatting.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
It's really awesome.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Thanks, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Thanks, Bobby, Bye, bye bye.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It's always such a treat and pleasure to speak to
beauty legend Bobby Brown. She really shares so much wisdom
about not only aging naturally, but simply taking care of
yourself enjoying yourself along the way. There's something that Bobby
says that really resonates with me, and that's taking care
of yourself, not listening to the outside world or outside pressures.
(23:10):
And clearly it has worked for her and it's such
an inspiring thing to look at her journey and how
she stayed consistent with that message throughout her life. And
as always, be your own advocate, know your own body
and skin, follow that intuition, because if an issue arises,
don't be afraid to reach out for help. Skin Queries
(23:32):
is hosted by myself Nicole Berry, an executive produced by
Evon Sheehan.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Our senior producer is Tory Weldon.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Our junior producer is reem Al mcgrabi, with help from
Austin Johnson. The show is mixed and features original music
by Sam Sagan. If you enjoy the show, share it
with your friends. You can also listen and follow on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'd love to know what you think, so make
sure to leave her a view.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Until next time, m
So let's get real.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Who amongst us hasn't thought a little bit about our
skin in the context of aging. There's been so much
pressure for us to do so many things, from creams
to lasers, pills, procedures, fillers.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
The options are endless.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
So to cut through all those layers, we're bringing in
someone who's lived in the beauty industry for decades and
who has a unique and refreshing approach to aging. That's right,
it's the one and only Bobby Brown.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
If I look in the mirror and I don't look good,
you know what I do? I stop looking and I
think for a second, all right, why do I look
so bad? Is the lighting bad?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Is the mirror bad?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Or have I been working too hard? Not balanced? Exhausted?
What did I eat last night? So to me, it's
so much lifestyle and its attitude.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hi guys, and welcome. I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm Nicole Berry and this is Skin Querries, a show
all about our skin and its health as we grow in.
Our skin is really a record of a life well lived,
because there isn't one body part that I could think
of that reflects our well being as clearly as our
skin So let's go on this journey together to really
understand what's going on with our skin. Let's unravel the
(01:14):
mysteries happening inside and out.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Today we're talking about aging.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
We can't do an entire season talking about skin and
health without talking about aging. Whether it's sun spots, lines, wrinkles, creases,
there's no turning back the clock. Aging is inevitable. Our
personal choice is in how we deal with it. So
for me, I like to feel my best, and that
means taking care of my body, taking care of what
(01:46):
I eat, how I move, And my skin routine actually
is quite simple. I love cleansing my skin with a
honey cleanser, I do a simple toner and moisturizer, and.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'm on my way.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
If I'm going to be in the sun, I add
sunlaw and I do love having fun with facials and
the occasional laser. But for the most part, it's pretty simple.
Perhaps in an alternate universe, aging gracefully would simply refer
to healthy living and taking care of ourselves. We'd value
the wisdom of our elders and see their lived experience
as something to celebrate and not to actually hide. But
(02:21):
for now, I'd say, aging confidently and quote unquote naturally
is a fairly radical approach. Even the term naturally can
mean different things to so many different people. There's so
much to think about today. We'll speak with dermatologists doctor
Adeline Kickham, but first the founder of Jones Road Beauty
and in my mind a cultural and beauty icon. It's
(02:43):
none other than Bobby Brown.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
And I'm the one you thought of about aging.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I know I'm very young at heart, to be honest,
the reason that I thought of you first is because
in all of our conversations that we've had, I guess
present yourself as you are, as you truly are has
always been, I feel like, one of your values and
I've always respected that so much since I was a teenager.
(03:10):
Right getting your book Teenage Beauty, it was kind of
like the Bible that everyone wanted for the holidays. And
like I remember using your books and your manuals pre TikTok,
pre Instagram as like how to feel my best. It
was never ever cover myself. It was always like present
myself as I am. And so now I'm in my
forties and with each step you've grown with me and
(03:32):
with I think my generation and many others.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
So I guess, broad scope, what is your approach when
it comes to beauty.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, first of all, I don't feel any older than
you are. I don't think of myself as any older
than you are. I don't. I don't think of myself
in terms of, oh my god, I can't believe how
old I am. And by the way, I've come a
long way since I was your age or younger about
how I felt about myself, about the food I put
in my body, the angst I had about what I'm eating.
(04:02):
And I am at the best place I've been in
my whole life. And I'm not even in my mid
sixties anymore. I'm sixty seven, which is insane to me.
And I really believe in skin being the most important
part of beauty.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
It's not about if you have lines or don't. It's
not about if you have blemishes or don't. It's really
just about how your skin looks, and it is such
a sign of health. Right. It's not what you put
on your face, it's what you put in your body.
You know, as someone that makes products, I know that firsthand.
I know That's why when I look in the mirror,
I don't look so bad. I look okay because I
(04:37):
eat really well. And by the way, I do get laser.
I don't shoot anything in my face. I don't do injectables.
I don't, you know, do any of Botot's anything. But
I will do every laser that someone says doesn't hurt
that bad, and it is going to make a difference.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You started as a makeup artist, right when did you
make that connection when it came to letting them skin
actually or the actual person like shine versus just covering
them up.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
You know. I started being a freelance makeup artist in
the eighties, you know, mid to high eighties, and I
just couldn't do makeup the way other people did it
with you know, this awful foundation and contour. I just
didn't look good. And I just realized how good the
girls looked when they came in. So I started doing
makeup just to make them look sunny and healthy. And
(05:28):
I used to study kind of like the Self magazine
beauty pages where the girls look so good, and I
would take makeup to kind of, you know, mimic that
on models. So I realized that looking fresh was what
mattered to me in beauty. But then I also at
the same time, I was someone that was going from
diet to diet to diet, to cleanse to cleanse, to realize, Okay,
(05:53):
this is really stupid. I should just find food that
makes me feel good when I eat, and I should
bring it with me because things were not readily available.
And that was, you know, in the early nineties. Wow,
people thought I was weird. I'd come in with the
tupperwaar with my chop salad, and I'd have baggies of vegetables,
so I wouldn't like sit there and eat breadsticks all
(06:13):
day on these gourmet shoots right at you know, during
fashion week or whatever, and I just realized I looked better,
I felt better eating better, and so my holistic approach
kind of began then. But I also was experimenting with
like the weirdest cleanses and diets and things, and finally
(06:34):
I said this is stupid and I stopped.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
When it comes to skincare, anti aging is such a
ubiquitous term. What is your kind of verbiage or that language?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Is it harmful? Do you use that?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I don't believe in anti aging because guess what, I'm
older now than I was when we started this podcast,
right and there's nothing on the market that turns back time.
There's just nothing. It doesn't work. There's nothing on the
market that really gets rid of your spots. There's nothing
on the market that gets rid of lines in your face.
There are moisturizers on the market that make your lines
(07:10):
look better, and there's makeup that could cover your spots.
But if I have spots, that means I'm not wearing
proper sunscreen. Now, when I'm in the sun, I wear
a long sleeve SBF shirt. And you know, I live
in Florida three months a year. I don't want to
look like I live in Florida. So I'm very protective
of my skin.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
And so how much does mindset come into play when
it comes to aging.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I mean, you took the words out of my mouth.
It's mindset. It's your attitude. You know, many of you,
many of us need attitude adjustments. So there's times where
I look in the mirror and I just say, oh
my god, I look so old, or I look in
the mirror and I say, oh my god, I look
like my mother. Like that is the you know, kind
of like, ah, you know, my mother was a beautiful woman.
(07:55):
But at the end of her life. You know, didn't
look so good. She didn't take proper care of herself,
definitely didn't have a positive attitude about things. If I
look in the mirror and I don't look good, you
know what I do? I stop looking and I think
for a second, I'm like, all right, why do I
look so bad? Is the lighting bad? Is the mirror bad?
Or have I been working too hard? Not balanced? Exhausted?
(08:17):
What did I eat last night?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I had two drinks and not one, and I had
martini with olives and not you know, water like So
to me, it's so much lifestyle and its attitude. I
have a mirror in two places I live, and it's
a full length mirror. It costs me about nine dollars
at like Kmart or wal Mart or somewhere, and it's
(08:40):
on an angle and it was only supposed to be temporary.
But when I look in the mirror, I look really tall,
and I love it, and I refuse to get rid
of it. My husband's like, let's buy a really nice
one and put it on the wall. I said, absolutely not.
I like this mirror because I like looking at myself
a certain way. And I'm five foot tall. I'm not tall,
(09:01):
but it's you know, it makes me happy. I walk
out of the house and I feel like a supermodel
and I don't care. Yeah, it's fine. And I also
know lighting is everything.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Can Bobby Brown tell us what the keys are to
good lighting?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah, my favorite light is daylight. I often do things
in my car. I put my makeup on, you know,
when I'm in the parking lot to my office or
when I'm sitting in my office.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You know, I so natural light when you apply makeup.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
If I have the option, natural light is best. Like
I could look in the mirror and I'm fine with
the lines in my forehead. There's lines around my mouth
because they're supposed to be right. And you know, I
don't have full lips, so I don't wear a ton
of lipstick. I have really good cheeks, so I always
put blush on. But my neck I put moisturizer on.
It looks better. But it's not my favorite part of
(09:52):
my anatomy. You know, I've kind of taught the people
in my organization who video me and shoot me like
guys batting.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, cut that, Like.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
You can't be a sixty seven year old makeup artist
doing a makeup thing and your head is down dipping
into the products. No, guys, right up, And if you
don't like it, I don't care. Then you know, just
cut to my hands, which, by the way, I don't
love my hands anymore, but they're my hands, right, you know,
they're my hands.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
What about when you were younger, like earlier influences, whether
it was your mom or someone growing up that kind
of you know, formed your perspective on beauty.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well in a negative way. As much as my mother
was a very big supporter, she was also wanting me
to be beautiful. That she once came to me and
told me I was very pretty, but I'd be beautiful
if I had my nose fixed. I never once complained
about my nose. I never had it fixed. And you know,
there was definitely insecurities. But the woman that made the
(10:48):
biggest difference in me where I said I'm okay the
way I am was when I was in either middle
school or beginning of high school and Love Story came
out and I saw Ali McGraw and she had, you know,
big eyebrows and these freckles on her nose and very
little makeup and you know, hair parted in the middle,
and I remember looking at her saying, my god, she's gorgeous.
(11:09):
And then I said, ah, she kind of looks like me,
or I kind of look like her, And so I
was able to kind of say, all right, I understand
my own beauty. I'm not Sheryl Tigus or Christy Brinkley
or Barbie.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah right, I mean to that credit, I mean even
behind you, all the faces that are representative of you
and Joanes Road I love. One of my favorite things
of walking into your story is that wall. It's almost
like magazine cutouts. Reminds me of like my bedroom as
a kid. How important is it for you to show
different faces and different types of skin tone, age.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I mean, it's everything. And I've always been someone that
believed in every single woman's beautiful. And it doesn't matter
what your age is, what your ethnicity is, what your
coloring is. You know, my job is to represent everyone.
And these girls on the wall are actually for our
next shoot, which is tomorrow. So we had their pictures,
you know, which are on the top where they're all
made up, and we tore them out of their portfolios
(12:07):
and you know in the bottom, we asked them all
to send pictures of them without any makeup on, and
so you know that's kind of what you're looking at now.
I just I tape things up on walls and change them.
And you know, we started taping them up on walls
in the Jones Road stores and that's now become our signature.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I love it. I think it's so cool.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
How important are ingredients to you, whether it's what's being
put in or what's not being.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Put in to a product, Very important, very important. I
mean I'm someone that you know I eat or I
shop organically. Let's say, Okay, I eat out in restaurants
a lot. So I'm not going to say I eat
exclusive organic because I don't. I have let go on
any neurosis about making things not work for me food wise,
(12:55):
because they're not supposed to work. You know, there's so
much noise that like goes into our head and what
you should and shouldn't eat. I've tried to be a vegan.
I can't. My body craves meat. I eat meat. I
try to eat the best kind of meat, not too
much of it. I've tried to quit coffee. I can't.
I try to do singles. I go back to double
I try to do organic, I go back to an espresso.
(13:16):
I'm like, okay, Bobby, stop making yourself crazy. Do what
feels good.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
We kind of talked about, you know, injectables and things
like cosmetic surgery, that you do not do those things right?
What is your I guess message to someone who is
thinking about it but scared or feels pressured to do it.
Of course, if someone wants to do it, they could
do what they want. But if they're feeling pressure to
do it, what would your advice be?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Well, who's pressuring you? Number one? And you can always
do it. You don't have to rush into something. You know,
there's certain things you do which are permanent. You know
you're going to get a tattoo, smack on your neck
or your ankle. Guys, it's permanent. You know you're gonna
shoot something in your face, you know once or so
it's not that permanent. But once you start. I always
(14:01):
say to people, it's like going into your garden. Have
you ever tried weeding? Where do you stop? I have
choice in my life done botox when I was in
my early forties a it had just come out. It
wasn't as scary then, but it didn't work for me.
My husband until the other day didn't even know it
because I was too scared to tell him. One time
I had an eye droop and another time I had
(14:24):
one eyebrow that was up to a point, and I
remember saying myself, Okay, dude, don't do it. This isn't
for you. Someone sending you a message. And I also
realize at a certain age, if I did botox now,
it wouldn't match the rest of my face, Like you
can't have a forehead that doesn't move in a neck
that does right right, it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Having so many of these conversations about the skin, I'm
realizing more and more that the choice is really ours
when it comes to taking care of our own skin.
Just like I follow my intuition with what I eat
and what I do, the same goes for skincare. I
know that I always want to be making a conscious
choice of what I'm doing versus listening to some social
(15:06):
media advice or even my friends. I need to bring
the choice into my own and this is where I'd
like to bring in Doctor Adeline Kickup. As a board
certified dermatologist, she's seen this pressure firsthand, coming up right
after the break, welcome back. You know, as a mom
(15:32):
of a daughter, I'm always thinking about how much pressure
girls in their teens, preteens, even in their twenties and older,
particularly on Instagram and on social media, and I wanted
to speak with doctor Kikum about feeling that pressure and
how it affects her patience.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And I think is more higher for gen ziers because
they are inundated with this right in the palm of
their hands. They are very self critical of your appearances,
so when they come to the office, there's this urge
to really move what I can move faster than your
shadows when it comes to appearance, right, they want your
nose to look a certain way, they want your chicks
(16:11):
to look a certain way, and I'm like, you're still growing.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right, And the point of reference is usually someone who's
actually like augmented their face most likely.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
And then we also have the filters that are creating
very unreasonable expectations. So it's reassuring them, educating them that
what they're seeing. They have to be cognizant that it's
not real a lot of times, and nobody is that perfect. Right.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
It's interesting that you're a medical doctor and you actually
have to explain something that's out of the medical field.
You know that these filters are not real, that these
are augmented, because our reality, or a young person's reality,
is cute.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Very very true, and it helps for them to hear
it from me because sometimes parents are frustrated, you know,
the kid harasses the parents about oh I look like this,
I don't like this, so they want to hear from
a different expert to really break it down to them
and say, hey, you're still growing. You think your face
is going to be always like this, but it's not.
(17:13):
Let's not do certain things prematurely. Let's wait till you
know you're an adult age where you can have a
greater insight on some of these things and personalizing your routine,
personalizing your skin health to something that makes sense for them,
something that is achievable, something that is doable, and really
(17:34):
really building up.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Your self esteem.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
And then for older patients, they are coming in wanting
to feel better about themselves. Right, Maybe they grew up
in an era that they didn't have access to certain procedures,
whether cosmetic or whatever, or they just feel like they're
in a certain profession, maybe like sales, and these are
all people that are growing through societal pressures. So for me,
(18:00):
it is reassuring and managing expectations within that natural process
of aging of what can you do and still do
things in a healthy manner. The idea is to never
as a doctor, do any harm, to go overboard when
it comes to your cosmetic options or just even general
(18:21):
skin care advice.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Doctor Adeline says it's important that we don't think of
our skin and its aging simply as an aesthetic issue.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
Just like you go for checkups or your kidneys, your heart.
Skin is the same way. So much of the fixation
shouldn't be on the esthetics as much as what is
happening to the structural integrity and the function that we're
talking about when we say we're aging. So I want
to educate people to know what is going on from
that perspective. Now why you should use sun protection instead
(18:52):
of just saying, you know, let's talk about how we
could diminish your wrinkles, but what is happening when you
go out under the sun. You what we call oxidative
damage is happening can increase your risk to cancer. So
instead of just emphasizing just the esthetic part, I try
to remind them of the medical part. When you start
(19:14):
looking at the skin as an organ and the reasons
why you're doing some of these things, not wholly from
a cosmetic but from a medical perspective, it really centers you.
And even as a dermatologist, I don't like the term
aging gracefully, like it puts so much pressure on people
to be youthful or to focus on the youthfulness of
(19:34):
the aging process and doing everything to counteract that instead
of recognizing that we're aging, and how do we support
the skin true is decline in structural integrity and function?
How do we make our skin work for us in
our skin care?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Can wrinkles or sagging skin ever become an actual medical
problem or is it simply just a culture norm that
we expect not to have these things.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
So it's a fine line, especially in dermatology, because we
are dealing with an organ that is also very visible.
You know. I joke with my cadeologist friends and I'm like,
you're just so lucky your organ is like inside.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Right, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
So there's because the skin is open to a lot
of interpretations, you know, people's standards of beauty, esthetics and
so many things. But there are medical issues that happen
in the framework of everything as well.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Right.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
You know, people come to the clinic for a different
concerns sometimes, right, and I'm examining them, I'm like, wait,
I'm not concerned about your hyperpigmentation, right, and I'm concerned
about that model that is changing, that needs to be
biopsyn So this is happening in the framework of other things, right,
the wrinkles, the dullness that is happening, and sometimes we
(20:55):
have new lesions, new molds popping up on the skin.
So you have to be able to when evaluating a patient,
look past what is just merely cosmetic to find what
may potentially affect your life, like a melanoma.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
It's a message we've come back to so many times
in this podcast. Our skin is an important marker of
our health and well being, so it's important to pay
attention to it and to care for it. Thank you
so much, doctor Adeline Kicom for your perspective.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
You're welcome. Let's bring Bobby back for the last word today.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Do you think as far as like leaving our listener
with I guess simple practical step that they can take
with them to improve their relationship to their skin. Whether
that be actually pragmatic things that they could do or
just a mindset shift.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
What would you say, Well, think about what you're putting
in your body first, and make sure you have enough hydration.
It's a struggle I have.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I have water everywhere I go.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
There's a huge difference if I do hydrate myself correctly
and if I don't. So that's number one. And also,
you know, just know what food you eat that makes
your skin look bad. Not everyone has to be dairy free,
not everyone has to be gluten free. I'm not allergic
to gluten. I could eat gluten, but I feel better
(22:12):
if I don't do it that often, and I feel
better if it's good quality bread over anything. But I'm
only making those choices for me, and I'm not telling
people they have to do what I do. But I
just want people to pay attention to what goes in
their body. I mean, I stopped eating sugar to make
me feel good, you know, and everyone's like, how did
you do that? I'm like, because I'd rather have a cocktail.
(22:35):
I won't give up my cocktail.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Well, thank you, Bobby, I really appreciate you taking the
time and chatting.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
It's really awesome.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Thanks, I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Thanks, Bobby, Bye, bye bye.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It's always such a treat and pleasure to speak to
beauty legend Bobby Brown. She really shares so much wisdom
about not only aging naturally, but simply taking care of
yourself enjoying yourself along the way. There's something that Bobby
says that really resonates with me, and that's taking care
of yourself, not listening to the outside world or outside pressures.
(23:10):
And clearly it has worked for her and it's such
an inspiring thing to look at her journey and how
she stayed consistent with that message throughout her life. And
as always, be your own advocate, know your own body
and skin, follow that intuition, because if an issue arises,
don't be afraid to reach out for help. Skin Queries
(23:32):
is hosted by myself Nicole Berry, an executive produced by
Evon Sheehan.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Our senior producer is Tory Weldon.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Our junior producer is reem Al mcgrabi, with help from
Austin Johnson. The show is mixed and features original music
by Sam Sagan. If you enjoy the show, share it
with your friends. You can also listen and follow on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'd love to know what you think, so make
sure to leave her a view.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Until next time, m
Host
Nicole Berrie
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