June 20, 2024 • 37 mins
Few things provoke judgment in the queer community like hooking up with someone closeted. In this episode, Gabe and Chris offer a reappraisal of the controversial figure of the “downlow lover” through a spicy interview with celebrated writer Brontez Purnell. Brontez gets honest about his experiences hooking up with DL men on Sniffies, and unpacks the Y2K-era media firestorm that made “downlow guys” into public enemy #1. Then, our hosts interview an anonymous DL dude about his secret life hooking up with men while in the closet.
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Guests featured in this episode:
Brontez Purnell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex, filter dirty words, and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Viewer discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
All right, Cruising Confession time, Chris, have you ever been
with a DL guy?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
If they were DL, they didn't tell me, and it
definitely was in like high school. I guess they were
yell because we couldn't talk about it right, you know,
like I could like publicize the fact that, like we
were hanging out together. So yeah, I guess high school
would be the time.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It is funny because I think a lot of queer
people are sort of in the closet for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And I mean not all of them obviously, but like
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
In high school, I was like, so I love musical theater,
debate club, and I'm straight, Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Believable, believable, she's an actor. Okay, she's an actor.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Have you ever been with a DL person? There was
a guy on a sports team in my high school. Okay.
He like instant messaged me at eleven pm one night
and he was like, Hey, what are you doing? And
I was like what what text? Yeah? Then we started.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I knew he had a girlfriend, okay, and we started
sharing like sexual stories and he's like, yeah, I've always
been interested in like putting stuff up my butt and
hooking up with a dude. Oh, and we like almost
hooked up in a mall parking lot. He was like, Oh,
I'll drive out to the O Vito marketplace to hook
up with you at midnight.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And I was like, oh, I'm down. And then I
was like, how am I going to leave my house?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes, at midnight and explain to my Puerto Rican parents
that I'm just going to the mall.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Girl, I was about to risk it all for a deal.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Man.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Was he hot?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
He was? Okay, well he was.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So I'm wondering when was the first time you heard
DL as like I termed to describe people who were
not out.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So for me, it was like daytime talk shows, the
Oprah moment, these men around the down low, and what's
wild is it was usually men of color. So the
term felt very much racialized and kind of tied to
a specific demographic or a specific type of person, because
I was like, I know a lot of closeted white guys,
but I didn't see them on Rocky Lake, you.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Like, so, yeah, it was interesting. How about you when
you first shared the term around the same time. Honestly,
I think being a black person and growing up in
the nineties, there was all this conversation around HIV AIDS
and how it was ravishing our community, and like that's
where the conversation started.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It was like, well, it's all these DL.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Guys going out and getting HIV and giving into our women.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
The blame is always on the individual and never on
the government or the institutions of power that A forced
people to be closeted and b don't provide folks with
access to healthcare adequate healthcare. It's like, babe, it's the
solution is simple. In today's episode, we offer a reappraisal
of the controversial figure of the down low or DL
guy and unpack some of the stigma and stereotypes that
(03:02):
perpetuate harm today while look at some of the reasons
folks might feel like they need to stay in the closet,
to their families, or in their workplace.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
First, we talked to author Brontes Parnell about his relationships
with DL guys.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Then we'll talk to an anonymous DL guest who uses
Sniffies to hook up with gay and straight curious men.
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I am Gabe Gonzils.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week weeks more the sublime
world of queer sex, cruising and relationship.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
We'll be talking to queer folks of all kinds. Ask
them questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
A lot of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the
library or the airport.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Here, damn.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So I've been like the neighborhood flat, and I took
pride in that I was so afraid but yet so intrigued.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
And the more I gave to him, the more.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
He could take. Our first guest today is Brontes Parnell.
Brontes is a writer, poet, punk dancer, director, and an
icon to the rad queers.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Everywhere.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
His award winning books include Since I Laid My Burden
Down and one Hundred Boyfriends, which won a Lambda Literary
Award for Gay Fiction. His newest book, Ten Bridges I've Burnt,
is in stores now.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Hi Son says, should we
talk about the elephant in the room? That DL article
that was on Hush Sniffy's.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
I thought, that's why y'all flew me here, so a
little context.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Sniffy's published this article by writer Zachary Zane and it
was all about enjoying sleeping with deal guys. And then
the online comments came in pretty swiftly and intensely, and
you actually made a post commenting on the comments and
the article itself. Do you remember what like the issue
you took with the response to that article was and
what you were feeling?
Speaker 6 (04:47):
Okay, well, basically there's kind of like, uh, basically, a
lot of the commenters were like framing all download guys
is having a moral deficit for not being out of
the closet. And the point I was making is if
you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a moral deficit.
Wily fingers and like, aren't we here to do sketchy
(05:13):
shit with sketchy people. That's why I signed up. So
there was kind of like this moral grand standing where
I was just like, I'm gonna bring you bitches back
to earth and the rudest way possible.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, it it's the only way to ground the community.
Get the girls together.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
I'm just like, girls were getting older. There's not a
lot of options. Shut up and take the dig.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Do you remember when this whole thing blew up in
the late nineties around DL guys.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
Oh man, Yeah, I remember it, but I mean it
was just it was framing and it was bullshit.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Did Gregory?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Actually I love did Gregory?
Speaker 5 (05:52):
But did Gregory?
Speaker 6 (05:53):
Like I remember him saying something to the effect in
this panel of Oh so there are black men who
have sex with other men, you know, and keep it
as a secret life.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
But we are to believe that.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
White men don't do this, and of course, right like
when white men do it, they are libertines or bisexual
or whatever. Like DL is a specifically racialized term, and
it's always on the head of like you know, the
fucking lascivious you know, plantation bull or like you know,
the Mexican day worker who's like coming to destroy your bussy.
(06:31):
It's like, no, it's like this totally sensationalized thing. And
to be quite honest, like in the realm that we
interact in, these men don't act any different than the
sketchy baggots you fuck like, I.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Just don't, you know.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
But it's the framing of it that makes it, you know,
it's kind of the thing that's fueling the desire for people.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I think, so like, yes, we could all agree.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Sniffy's as an app that is used by many types
of men, deal men included.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
Sometimes DL is the connotation of just like I don't
want you all niggas in my business. Oka't look because
you know, like I'll be in Oakland and they'll be
guys claiming to be DL. But like this one guy
walked in my room and was like, oh, yeah, you
got the guitar and books. My cousin fucked you, And
I was like, you supposed to be d L. But
(07:20):
y'all y'all talking amongst each other. But I also think
that it, like the the notion of it has kind
of morphed too, you know, which I also think is
kind of fine. There is part of me too, Like
I'm like, I really spent these years of my life
like wearing this rainbow crop.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Toppying like and I'm gay except me, But like what
if I.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Just shut my fucking mouth and been DL, Like it
could have been so much easier, you know what I'm saying,
Like no, cause it's like and there's always this thing
that I talk about, like I'll have like young d
L boys come and talk to me about like should
I come out of the closet? Should I'm not but
me being in like the radical San Francisco vibe, I'm like,
(08:04):
the second he comes out of the closet, the only
thing that's gonna happen is a bunch of trifling ass
white bottoms on grind theer're gonna be blowing up his
phone all day. It's not you know what I'm saying,
like one on the plantation roll thing. It's like it's
like it's treacherous and so like sometimes I'm almost.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Like, no, baby, just stay, just stay, like you know.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
What I'm saying, Like, but then also even thinking about
the fact that like Stiffy's is probably the only place
I get trade anymore, Like the second the second I
turned forty, the second I was over two hundred and
twenty pounds and the second I had gray hair. Nobody
(08:46):
talked to me on Grinder. Wait, white men especially like
don't talk to me on Grinder. I had a scruff
profile for two years. Not one hit right anybody that
I am in. When I am, I want Sniffies and
I was. I started Sniffy's in like quarantine. So Quarantine
was fun. Now I feel like it's just like a
(09:06):
bunch of scammers and gay dudes, But like Quarantine was fun,
and it was always the anonymous profiles where it was
like the jackpot.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (09:16):
Like, but I noticed that when I, you know, started
going through Man, I pause, the dal dude that you
know was you know, probably part of the prison population
became like my number one fan, and thank god for them,
But where would we be, yo guy. But it's also
(09:37):
too it's like I don't know, like we're all just
fucking sketch, you know, like we're all pretty sketch. But
I'm also saying I still have as much sex as
I had when I was like, you know, that twenty
year old thought going to the gym five days a week,
three hours a day, but like when your body change,
how the scope of your trade changes, how you have
(09:59):
access the sex changes. It's weird, right because we're essentially
what we're having here is like an intersectional conversation about sex,
but people don't like intersections because intersections are always black holes.
Like we can discuss how it like kind of has
no meeting once. There's five different things we're talking about.
But I don't say this to uphold these men, but
(10:23):
I do. I am glad that there is this app
that kind of kind of did away with how Grinder
became Christian mingo all of a sudden, seriously, because it
became like about, oh sorry, you be on Grinder sometimes,
and I just feel like it's a bunch of white
dudes asking you what your earning potential is, and like
(10:43):
if you have the nine inch dick, you still have
to have the apartment or the education, Like there's real interview,
whereas like sniffy dudes are just like I want you
face down, ass up social Security card on the bed.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Kind of excited.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
The whole series, so I have to have then, what's
been good or about about hooking up with DL men
from a sexual and maybe an emotional perspective.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
It's when I say, DM, I don't think they act
any different than the gay is.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
What I will tell you is, Okay, here's a funny story.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Right.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
I got this one guy that was like, okay, it
was a white guy. It was this white top and
he was using pictures of a light skinned black boys
dick and talking in a a v like African American
vernacular English, be like, yeah, I'm gonna show up.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I'm gonna beat them cakes up.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
I'm gonna do all this.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
But I want you like you know, I want you blindfolded,
doors locked or door unlocked, like face down. But like
I live on like Martin Luther King Junior Way in Oakland.
You know it's always a scared street. Right, I'll leave
my door on locks. And I was also like, I
got roommates. This is the Bay Area. What the fuck
(12:07):
do you think I live alone?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Anyway?
Speaker 6 (12:09):
Right, I get to the door and I answered the door,
and it's like, not just any white boy. I'm talking
man Bun Berkeley, sweater, burken stocks.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
You got like Rachel Doloso.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
But he was like, oh.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Real, okay, no, but like y'all, but seriously, he has
some serious dick on him, and I still let him
hit right yeah, But then later he like hit me
up and was like, hey, man, that's fucked up. That
was supposed to be anonymous, and I was like, you
were supposed to be black. But the thing about it
(12:42):
was like.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
His it's like.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Here's but because it's a weird.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
His fetish was impersonating a download black man so he
could go fuck blindfolded black bottoms, like okay. But then
afterwards his boyfriend texted me on the app and was like, hey,
did this guy come over? Was he using like was
he using these black boys pictures?
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And then I was like yeah, yeah girl, yeah, yo,
man skitch. But then he was like, well how was
the six?
Speaker 6 (13:23):
And I was like and so I blocked him because
I thought that was like the guy or whatever.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Yeah, but so.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That wild participating in someone else's fantasy without your knowledge,
where I.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Can't do that every day. Also, like it was like
totally fine. Yeah, but then also I don't even when
we're like yeah the dick was good, I'm sorry, like
as I go through mana pause too, like part of
me too is just like good dick is like not
(14:04):
that hard to come by the right, you know, because
I remember being it, like, you know, in my twenties
and just remembering I always had to have the most
porn ideal of the most thunder god dig down, and like,
you know, the older you get, you're just like, oh,
I just need to get this shit done so I
can get on fucking, you know, make my spaghetti and
go to bed. You know, sex becomes as I treat
(14:30):
sex more as a natural function of you know, human life,
you know, and not always having to have it be
this like I don't know, this porn ideal or whatever
kind of changes in the shape of how I engage.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I'm very interested in these sort of porn ideals too,
right because on the one hand, we have talked about
how coming out in some places is not safe even
still to this day, or not comfortable for a lot
of people, which is why we stop people in the closet.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
But I do think there's like a flip.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Side to the a DL men are viewed, and part
of what causes the kind of controversy surrounding the idolizing
of the DL guy, the idea that there's something harder
about them in bed because they are straight or they
give the impression of like uber masculinity. I don't know,
how do you kind of unpack that when you're thinking
about this topic that's.
Speaker 6 (15:16):
All across the board, Okay, Like just if I say
the mean average of stories I hear with these men, right,
they are usually in their forties, the wife has had
the second kid and has stopped putting out. Right, They
usually are in social circle. Straight men have very close
(15:37):
social circles, and it's very hard for them to be
sleeping with women within those circles. So I think they
know they're at that age where a rectile dysfunction is
about to hit, and they're just like, this is my
last ten years to get it in, And so they
go into this realm like where they can have complete anonymousness,
like there's actually something very functional about like kind of
(15:59):
what they're doing and actually makes a lot of sense,
and even like the idea of them cheating, it's funny.
My mom, the biggest like sex positive awesome person is
like kind of like my mom, right, And I remember
like talking to my mom on time and being like, so, like, Mom,
do like all men cheat? And She's like, are you
fucking stupid? Women cheat? Like when a man is cheating,
(16:19):
Do you think he's only cheating with single women?
Speaker 5 (16:22):
He fucking someone's.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Girlfriend, fucking someone's wife, Like do the actual map Like
a lot of these guys, I do think that their
wives have like other lovers or doing whatever. Some of
these guys I think are coming in to like kind
of act out these things that these mans do. Some
shit to me where I'm like, if I was a woman,
i'd call the police. But you know, like look at me,
(16:43):
like I don't know, I'm pretty built. People fuck me
like I'm a linebacker, so it's like I could take
a beating, you know what I'm saying. But when you
talk about them, like the stories are so across the board,
and it really did make me think that like gay
really is a political identity.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
I think it's like we live in a world where
there was always room for the behavior, but the identity
is what became the crisis. Men have found a way
to have sex with other men forever years. Yeah, but
now that we are in like this last seventy years
of this kind of gay revolution, the subject becomes like identity, right.
(17:25):
But then also sometimes I don't know, I feel there's
ways I feel kind of left behind by the current
sexual revolution in a way because I feel like it
didn't make more faggots.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
In my head.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Sometimes I'll be in Oakland and they'll be like I'll
be hanging out with like the trans girls and the dolls,
and all of them want to get their trade and
go move to Sacramento and like live as white women
in pick of fences. And now download men feel like
they can just come in and fucking like, you know,
you bang up all the gay bussy and not fucking
owe nobody nothing. No fact, it's still been't asked to
(18:02):
marry me yet. And for all this representation and all
this openness, Like, why do I still feel like I
don't know, I would have had better luck if I
had just had like a lavender marriage in the fifties,
You know, it doesn't. I always want to feel like
there's a linear line we're moving towards freedom, but we
seem to always make this curve back saying to the
(18:23):
same old shit we've been stuck in.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I've definitely found a couple of men in my neighborhood
that are faceless profiles and are afraid of being like
seen on an apple, like Sniffies because of work or
their family, right, So it's like they're kind of out
of their social circles, but they're not out of families
at work, and at least in my neighborhood. I mean,
I live off Avenue in Puerto Rico, but it's a
(18:46):
lot of Latino men. I'm right at home, but it
is a lot of other Latino men.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
Every time someone puts a face pic on Sniffy's too,
I'm like, Reez is desperate. No one's there to be handsome,
you know. But actually there was a while. There was
a while. There was a period of about six months
where I like didn't take any photos. I just let
dudes come over because I was just like, how do
(19:16):
I say it? In my twenties, I worked at the bathhouse,
I worked at steam Marks.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
So there's something so crazy about like having spent most
of my life in a situation where everyone's in towels,
everything's kind of revealed. Men'll just walk up to you
and grab your dick and be like yes or no,
and like that's it. Where there's something about when you're
having sex with a DL dude, he's coming to your
house specifically just to see you, and I never even
(19:44):
noticed how there's something actually magical about it doesn't matter
what his dick look like, his body and also, to
be honest, who truly has an unattractive face? I don't
really think that that's like a true thing. Watching someone
just undress in front of you and only be there
for you is a way different magic than this kind
of like you know this the way gay man participate
(20:06):
in that like kind of bathhouse he like you're either
cut or you're not kind of culture. That's kind of
that was something that I thought was really special, And
even as I transition into my next phase, I'm trying
to find the outgay man that does that for me,
you know, because that's the two things that I can't
(20:27):
seem to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There's something that can feel very almost romantic about that, right,
the just you experience, And there's a kind of intimacy
that I feel like closeted men actually sort of emanate
in in trusting that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
This person is extremely vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Right, we know that they are absolutely hiding this part
of themselves and they have chosen to come over. They
are exposing themselves in a way that they wouldn't normally do.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, it's really vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Yeah, for sure, this one download trick. I've been seeing
him for five years. I bought his kid's soccer gear
because it's like, no.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
Because stepmom, well, well, because I looked.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
I thought about it too, because I was like, I
was like you we were hanging out. I'm like, yo,
like this fool has been digging me down for five years. Yeah, like,
which is longer than most any gay relationship. I was like, yeah,
you know what I'm saying. And my mom's boyfriends were
such dicks. I was just like, oh, the least I
could do is buy a kid's soccer gear to say
thank you or something.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
So have you ever had a relationship with the DL
person and had them come out as a results of
your relationship.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
I don't think they came out. A lot of them
struggle with the notion of coming out. And these these
are like these are like gay and Latino men like
in their like forties and on, like they're trying to
catch up to the gay revolution that happened in the
nineties much less like this whole like this twenty twenty
fourth thing, where doing you know? So even sometimes when
(22:02):
I'm talking to them. I do have to think though, like, oh,
they are of that age where like even when I
moved to San Francisco, right and I was having sex
and you know I was, I was like that pre
prep bug chasing having sex with the Treasure Island media boys.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, you know, like we were.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
But we were those boys in San Francisco in the
early two thousands, and like, remember how dangerously we read
to people. But the generation just before us, they were
not having sex in their twenties like we were because
of like the age epidemic and like how.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Scary it was.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
And so now these men are like thrust into a
new era where it's like, oh, like you have to
send a dick pic to get laid. Oh I can
bang people without contracting HIV. But now that there's not
the stress of this, now I can deal with this
backlog of like emotional stress around what does it mean
to have sex with a man? What if I like
(23:01):
this person and I keep coming to him? How do
I say this to my family?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
You know, like.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
It's it's really it's really interesting, kind of like the
helix of the heliks of just like consciousness and sex
and all of them. I think I don't think everyone's
everyone's kind of fascinating. It's fascinating to watch someone kind
of learn how to walk, and like how we're all
learning how to walk and reconfigure it whatever age we're at,
(23:28):
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Oh gosh, all right, we've had such a good time
with you. Unfortunately we do have to end.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But I want to know what is coming up for
you this summer and where can people find you online?
Speaker 6 (23:42):
I'm on rentman dot com word right now, I'm like,
not even charging. I'm just doing the boyfriend experience as
long as you buy me records.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
And then I'm going on tour with my band on
the East Coast this week, so you might not see that.
But this summer leaky around, I'm finishing my sci fi
book and yeah, just vacationing, hanging out in Oakland. So
you can find me on Instagram at Bronton's Parnell.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh my god, amazing. We'll have to take a field
trip and come up to visit you. Yes, you can
stay in the Sniffy office.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
After the break, we will be talking to a deal
guy about his experience on Sniffi's and so much more.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Stick around will be right back.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
It's actually gonna be me.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
So this is normally the portion of the show where
we list our guest achievements and plug his latest product
or release, but we can't do that today because our
guest is anonymous. We aren't revealing any details about him
because he is closeted and we want to protect his privacy.
He is masked, and we are altering his voice.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
We're really thankful for his willingness to come speak about
this top topic. Welcome to a cruising Confessions. How you
doing I'm doing good?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, yeah, amazing, Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Thank you. I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Truly, No, we appreciate you being here. So I think
the first question is one of a lot of people
must be asking themselves. Right, it's twenty twenty four. It
feels like, more than any other time in history, it
is safe for people to come out. So what is
it that makes you feel that you need to stay
closeted or deal?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
I think, like you said, I mean, the only reason
why you're so deal at this point is because you
feel like you need to because it's New York, like,
it's twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Four, and how long have you been DL?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Fuck? All my life. Yeah, I mean, I feel like
there's stages to d on this. I was saying in
the beginning, of course, it's like DL to the point
where you're not even sharing a picture of yourself, and
then there's DL where it's just like, Okay, some people know,
but like the core people in my life don't know,
you know. So I feel like I've been DAL my
(26:00):
whole life. But then i just went through the chapters
of d on this and I'm in this face now
where like some people know, but like the people that
are like super core in my life there they don't know. So,
you know, it's like I'm DEAL to some people, I'm
not and then to other people like I'm not the
d O because they know who I am.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So, and do you do any intermingling between those two
groups of people or do you keep them separate?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I don't know, we keep them separate. I think no,
that would be a disaster to like mix them, because
it's like you're just like two different people, two different worlds,
you know, So I'm mixing them. You just you put
yourself in a really really fucked position.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, you know, for real.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I'm also curious, do you identify as gay or bisexual.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yeah, I'm definitely gay, but you know, fun night's a
fun night. Like if I I think I had like
I had a girlfriend of dated girls blah bah blah,
but you know, I definitely want to focus on guys.
It's super different with guys, like especially with like hook
up culture. It's not this same as like when you're
dating like hetero cis woman. I was telling I think
(27:06):
Adam the director, like Sniffy's and all of that. It's
like it's like go Puffer Dick and what's on demand
at any time in any city. It's probably in more
cities than fucking Uber. Oh yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
For sure Sniffy's is international. We're here like France, Germany.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Yeah, but not in the UAE or some shit.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Do you ever think there would be a time where
you'd feel comfortable coming out to close friends and family.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
For the foreseeable future. No, the idea of of me
telling someone like telling them like why would I do that?
Would I ever go to someone and be like, oh,
like I fucked this girl last night? Like if anything,
there should be a choice, like when you first like
are born, like oh I want to know what X
y Z is gonna be. But now it's just like, oh,
(27:59):
like where's your wife? Like oh blah blah blah when
you're having kids, And how do you respond to those
questions when you get them depends on who it is. Again,
this goes back to like certain people know I'm dh
certain people don't. But like if certain people ask me
and I don't want them to know, I go along
with it, like you know, I'm getting on. Maybe someone
would say like I'm lying in a sense, but for me,
(28:22):
it's like I see it as protection.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Safety, true, and that's the reality for people, right it
might not be someone's individual experience. And I think, you know,
we talked about this a brontest too. There's a lot
of folks in New York and San Francisco that are like,
you need to come out?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Why you come out?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I hate that song?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well, yeah they don't.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Everyone's situation and experience is different, and there are places
where it's not safe. Sometimes around family it's not safe.
Sometimes with work it's not safe. So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Facts And there was one time I was in La.
I was in La just for personal reasons and there
was this guy that I met and he was like
he was basically like demeaning me because I wasn't out,
and then he was telling me and I was telling
him that looked like it's so stressful, blah blah blah,
it's so stressful, like I feel like the weight on
(29:09):
my shoulders touch shit. And he was on home. It
must not be that heavy if you haven't like came
out out. He's tweaking like you know, it's just yeah,
like it's levels to d on this, and then there's
like a level of respect that you some people should have.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Totally. Yeah, we got to meet each other where we're at. Absolutely, yeah,
we got to meet each other.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Where we're at.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I'm curious if the opposite is also true.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
If you ever feel like you get people chasing after
you because your d O whenever you use an.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
App, Yeah, but it's mainly older guys. Interesting young guys
are not DL chasers, Like it's always the older ones.
It's always ones that are like married or just completely
not in the mix at all. But yeah, it's never
young guys. But honestly, even if you are d teacher,
(30:00):
like I don't care, like most of the time we are,
we both want just one thing, so like, let's just
get it.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah, at the end of the day, no matter how
we identify, and they.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Don't care to be able to say page because you're
not dating them. You know, they only people really only
care if you're like dating each other.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
What was like one of the hottest hookups or meetups
that you can remember having.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
I mean, it's pretty exploitit or like t M I,
but I didn't like I didn't like, I didn't not
for like a long time. Okay, so you were ready, Yeah,
I was really ready, but then.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Your voice just dropped it often when he said you
were ready.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
But then I went to the parkah, so just like
it's hell, are people here?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Apparently?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
So I meet this like Puerto Rican guy and you.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Know, we're like the one.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
We're doing, the one doing the two and this guy
is just like watching us. But like I think that
what made it so hot was like when I it
was like a three day nuts when I know, it
was just so much and then he just like he
just not as soon as I did that with the
guy that was watching. So that was probably the hottest,
just because it was just so much none. I was
just like it felt so good. But other than that,
(31:14):
like I feel like every time I do it, it's hot,
Like why would I do it? And it's not hot?
Like those are the type of people that have a
problem with like you're just out here fucking just the fuck.
Like it's okay to like just do it as an activity,
but like what did you get from this? Like did
you even enjoy it? You know, like did you enjoy it?
Or are you just doing it just to do it?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So well, sometimes you don't know until you meet up
with the person, right, you think you're gonna enjoy it,
and then you get there and you're like, oops, maybe not.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yeah, that's when you have to do the Oh I
got to go somewhere or I have to do something
or someone cold. Yeah, because there's no point in doing
it if there's not like a if you're going to
regret it after it's just like bro, like it's not fun,
not fun at all.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Do you feel like you've ever been in, uh something
close to a relationship with another guy?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, for sure, Like I've been in a relationship where
I was more recently, like we were both on the
same page in terms of like out or like halfway out.
We're both like halfway out, so we're very understanding both family,
same family problems, whatever. And then I've been with a
guy who is like on the opposite page of me,
(32:20):
like just told his parents his whole team knows blah
blah blah, and yeah, like I don't know, Like it
was definitely different experiences, But I think I must date
someone on the same page as me, because if not,
like I was looking cringed out the fact that you
to his parents like, damn, bro, like I don't have
(32:41):
confident in you anymore. Yeah, he probably wasn't until his parents,
Like I don't see it. I don't want that. It's
not fun it whatsoever, so.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Scary and I'm out, Like that seems really terrify. Ye,
But thinking about like when I wasn't out and then,
I mean.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I've always nowt, but like there was no there was
a couple of years where I was masquerading as a
straight man.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Oh yeah, see, you're giving me flashbacks to like high
school and college. Like I was to school very out,
but in college I still hadn't come out to my parents.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Like I mean, I was dating men, I was like
going to a gay party. I was very out socially,
but I went to school on Rhode Island. My parents
were in Florida, so I was like, how the fun Yeah,
absolutely not. And they're Puerto Rican, they're Catholic. I was like, okay,
I like I don't even want to start. And then
the funny thing is my first job out of college
was editing for a gay porn company. I didn't tell them,
(33:34):
but my mom found out about that. And she found
out about that before I had told her myself I
was gay.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
She kind of knew, right, like your parents are our suspect.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
But it was just really funny because I had to
come out to my mom as like a gay porn
editor and gay at the same time.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
But I thought they weren't good with technology. Bro, how
did they find out?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I'm like, how did she find out about this job?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So that was my fault.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I went on a comedy show because they were looking
to interview a porn producer. Oh god, but it was
like a how Many Central show? And I was like,
my mom doesn't watch Comedy Central? Houck is she ever
gonna find this? This was like well before like like
YouTube was huge, or like she had a smartphone, even
like I didn't even have a smartphone. I did that
interview and she only found it because I think she
was getting divorced from my dad, and my dad found
(34:15):
it and like tried to bring it up for I
don't know how to piss her off or something. So
it's just really funny. And I was like, yeah, yeah,
you did see that interview. It was funny, right, Like
it was wild.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Mom, I hope you're not watching Sniffies.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
To be fair, I did not have a mask on
when I did my interview. I was very Yeah, I
was face out. I had a mustache. It was hard
to miss.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Yeah. The thing about these you never know, like you
never know who's DL obviously d O. So like anyone
can be watching this, like my fucking uncles or my dad.
That shit is wild. But I'm not updating anything on LinkedIn,
and so like we should be good. Yeah, yeah, I'm
not going like a j letter or like out magazine
(34:59):
or some shit.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I mentioned a LinkedIn status like I'm bravely coming out
as DL.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Podcast. Yeah I love that.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
That's an exclusive. That's good for you guys.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, we did get the exclusive. We get that sixty
minutes blurred face voice.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, this is great. I feel like a journalist. It's
giving budget it's giving budget. It's giving budget.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
All right.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Well, thank you so much for showing up and sitting
down with us and having a conversation. It's been such
a pleasure getting to know you a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, really appreciate it. Your stories are really hot and
it was also kind of fun. And I you know,
I hope one day this does become less stressful for you.
But I think you've offered so much insight to our
audience on why some people might not feel ready or
safe coming out. And I think it's really important to again,
like Chris said to me, people where they're at for sure.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Me where I am. It's a good position.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
In the park.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Maybe another Puerto Rican in the park. Stick around, don't
go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Today's episode was really great.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah, And what I hope that people get from it,
whether you're out or you're not out, that there is
a place for you in this world, and if you
aren't finding what you're looking for in terms of like community,
that just go where it's warm, you know, find the
people that do care about who you are and where
your safety lies, and go to them. You know.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me
from this episode is how often we point the finger
people who are in the closet or DL folks and
call them liars and you know, to tell them that
they are holding sort of internalized homophobia. But what I've
gotten from the conversation with our last guest in particular,
is that it's usually external forces that make people feel
(36:46):
pressure to stay in the closet.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't think it's an individual's fault. It's our culture.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
It's a mentality of homophobia and queer phobia that still
pervades so many parts of our culture and cultures around
the globe. So really, to me, it seems like an
institutional and cultural problem. And I hope that the next time,
you know, you feel the urge to read someone down
for being in the closet or identifying as DL, you
think about the external factors that might be playing into
(37:11):
that decision, and how for some people it really is
a matter of.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Security, yeah, and safety, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
All right, Well, that is the end of this episode
of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Thank you so much for joining us. It's been such
a wild ride, and we hope you tune in for
the next one. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is directed by Adam Barron,
produced by Stevie Williams and Karen mc femino, and executive
produced by Elin Martin.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's, the ultimate map based cruising.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Platform for gay by and curious people ready to cruise.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Check out the map at snippies dot com and follow
Sniffy's on socials at Snippy's app.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Put job Good, put job, put put Joe puts up
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex, filter dirty words, and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Viewer discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
All right, Cruising Confession time, Chris, have you ever been
with a DL guy?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
If they were DL, they didn't tell me, and it
definitely was in like high school. I guess they were
yell because we couldn't talk about it right, you know,
like I could like publicize the fact that, like we
were hanging out together. So yeah, I guess high school
would be the time.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It is funny because I think a lot of queer
people are sort of in the closet for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And I mean not all of them obviously, but like
you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
In high school, I was like, so I love musical theater,
debate club, and I'm straight, Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Believable, believable, she's an actor. Okay, she's an actor.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Have you ever been with a DL person? There was
a guy on a sports team in my high school. Okay.
He like instant messaged me at eleven pm one night
and he was like, Hey, what are you doing? And
I was like what what text? Yeah? Then we started.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I knew he had a girlfriend, okay, and we started
sharing like sexual stories and he's like, yeah, I've always
been interested in like putting stuff up my butt and
hooking up with a dude. Oh, and we like almost
hooked up in a mall parking lot. He was like, Oh,
I'll drive out to the O Vito marketplace to hook
up with you at midnight.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And I was like, oh, I'm down. And then I
was like, how am I going to leave my house?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes, at midnight and explain to my Puerto Rican parents
that I'm just going to the mall.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Girl, I was about to risk it all for a deal.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Man.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Was he hot?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
He was? Okay, well he was.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So I'm wondering when was the first time you heard
DL as like I termed to describe people who were
not out.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So for me, it was like daytime talk shows, the
Oprah moment, these men around the down low, and what's
wild is it was usually men of color. So the
term felt very much racialized and kind of tied to
a specific demographic or a specific type of person, because
I was like, I know a lot of closeted white guys,
but I didn't see them on Rocky Lake, you.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Like, so, yeah, it was interesting. How about you when
you first shared the term around the same time. Honestly,
I think being a black person and growing up in
the nineties, there was all this conversation around HIV AIDS
and how it was ravishing our community, and like that's
where the conversation started.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It was like, well, it's all these DL.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Guys going out and getting HIV and giving into our women.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
The blame is always on the individual and never on
the government or the institutions of power that A forced
people to be closeted and b don't provide folks with
access to healthcare adequate healthcare. It's like, babe, it's the
solution is simple. In today's episode, we offer a reappraisal
of the controversial figure of the down low or DL
guy and unpack some of the stigma and stereotypes that
(03:02):
perpetuate harm today while look at some of the reasons
folks might feel like they need to stay in the closet,
to their families, or in their workplace.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
First, we talked to author Brontes Parnell about his relationships
with DL guys.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Then we'll talk to an anonymous DL guest who uses
Sniffies to hook up with gay and straight curious men.
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I am Gabe Gonzils.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week weeks more the sublime
world of queer sex, cruising and relationship.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
We'll be talking to queer folks of all kinds. Ask
them questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
A lot of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the
library or the airport.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Here, damn.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
So I've been like the neighborhood flat, and I took
pride in that I was so afraid but yet so intrigued.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
And the more I gave to him, the more.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
He could take. Our first guest today is Brontes Parnell.
Brontes is a writer, poet, punk dancer, director, and an
icon to the rad queers.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Everywhere.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
His award winning books include Since I Laid My Burden
Down and one Hundred Boyfriends, which won a Lambda Literary
Award for Gay Fiction. His newest book, Ten Bridges I've Burnt,
is in stores now.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Hi Son says, should we
talk about the elephant in the room? That DL article
that was on Hush Sniffy's.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
I thought, that's why y'all flew me here, so a
little context.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Sniffy's published this article by writer Zachary Zane and it
was all about enjoying sleeping with deal guys. And then
the online comments came in pretty swiftly and intensely, and
you actually made a post commenting on the comments and
the article itself. Do you remember what like the issue
you took with the response to that article was and
what you were feeling?
Speaker 6 (04:47):
Okay, well, basically there's kind of like, uh, basically, a
lot of the commenters were like framing all download guys
is having a moral deficit for not being out of
the closet. And the point I was making is if
you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a moral deficit.
Wily fingers and like, aren't we here to do sketchy
(05:13):
shit with sketchy people. That's why I signed up. So
there was kind of like this moral grand standing where
I was just like, I'm gonna bring you bitches back
to earth and the rudest way possible.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, it it's the only way to ground the community.
Get the girls together.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
I'm just like, girls were getting older. There's not a
lot of options. Shut up and take the dig.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Do you remember when this whole thing blew up in
the late nineties around DL guys.
Speaker 6 (05:45):
Oh man, Yeah, I remember it, but I mean it
was just it was framing and it was bullshit.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Did Gregory?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Actually I love did Gregory?
Speaker 5 (05:52):
But did Gregory?
Speaker 6 (05:53):
Like I remember him saying something to the effect in
this panel of Oh so there are black men who
have sex with other men, you know, and keep it
as a secret life.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
But we are to believe that.
Speaker 6 (06:07):
White men don't do this, and of course, right like
when white men do it, they are libertines or bisexual
or whatever. Like DL is a specifically racialized term, and
it's always on the head of like you know, the
fucking lascivious you know, plantation bull or like you know,
the Mexican day worker who's like coming to destroy your bussy.
(06:31):
It's like, no, it's like this totally sensationalized thing. And
to be quite honest, like in the realm that we
interact in, these men don't act any different than the
sketchy baggots you fuck like, I.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
Just don't, you know.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
But it's the framing of it that makes it, you know,
it's kind of the thing that's fueling the desire for people.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I think, so like, yes, we could all agree.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Sniffy's as an app that is used by many types
of men, deal men included.
Speaker 6 (07:00):
Sometimes DL is the connotation of just like I don't
want you all niggas in my business. Oka't look because
you know, like I'll be in Oakland and they'll be
guys claiming to be DL. But like this one guy
walked in my room and was like, oh, yeah, you
got the guitar and books. My cousin fucked you, And
I was like, you supposed to be d L. But
(07:20):
y'all y'all talking amongst each other. But I also think
that it, like the the notion of it has kind
of morphed too, you know, which I also think is
kind of fine. There is part of me too, Like
I'm like, I really spent these years of my life
like wearing this rainbow crop.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Toppying like and I'm gay except me, But like what
if I.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Just shut my fucking mouth and been DL, Like it
could have been so much easier, you know what I'm saying,
Like no, cause it's like and there's always this thing
that I talk about, like I'll have like young d
L boys come and talk to me about like should
I come out of the closet? Should I'm not but
me being in like the radical San Francisco vibe, I'm like,
(08:04):
the second he comes out of the closet, the only
thing that's gonna happen is a bunch of trifling ass
white bottoms on grind theer're gonna be blowing up his
phone all day. It's not you know what I'm saying,
like one on the plantation roll thing. It's like it's
like it's treacherous and so like sometimes I'm almost.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Like, no, baby, just stay, just stay, like you know.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
What I'm saying, Like, but then also even thinking about
the fact that like Stiffy's is probably the only place
I get trade anymore, Like the second the second I
turned forty, the second I was over two hundred and
twenty pounds and the second I had gray hair. Nobody
(08:46):
talked to me on Grinder. Wait, white men especially like
don't talk to me on Grinder. I had a scruff
profile for two years. Not one hit right anybody that
I am in. When I am, I want Sniffies and
I was. I started Sniffy's in like quarantine. So Quarantine
was fun. Now I feel like it's just like a
(09:06):
bunch of scammers and gay dudes, But like Quarantine was fun,
and it was always the anonymous profiles where it was
like the jackpot.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (09:16):
Like, but I noticed that when I, you know, started
going through Man, I pause, the dal dude that you
know was you know, probably part of the prison population
became like my number one fan, and thank god for them,
But where would we be, yo guy. But it's also
(09:37):
too it's like I don't know, like we're all just
fucking sketch, you know, like we're all pretty sketch. But
I'm also saying I still have as much sex as
I had when I was like, you know, that twenty
year old thought going to the gym five days a week,
three hours a day, but like when your body change,
how the scope of your trade changes, how you have
(09:59):
access the sex changes. It's weird, right because we're essentially
what we're having here is like an intersectional conversation about sex,
but people don't like intersections because intersections are always black holes.
Like we can discuss how it like kind of has
no meeting once. There's five different things we're talking about.
But I don't say this to uphold these men, but
(10:23):
I do. I am glad that there is this app
that kind of kind of did away with how Grinder
became Christian mingo all of a sudden, seriously, because it
became like about, oh sorry, you be on Grinder sometimes,
and I just feel like it's a bunch of white
dudes asking you what your earning potential is, and like
(10:43):
if you have the nine inch dick, you still have
to have the apartment or the education, Like there's real interview,
whereas like sniffy dudes are just like I want you
face down, ass up social Security card on the bed.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Kind of excited.
Speaker 7 (11:04):
The whole series, so I have to have then, what's
been good or about about hooking up with DL men
from a sexual and maybe an emotional perspective.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (11:20):
It's when I say, DM, I don't think they act
any different than the gay is.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
What I will tell you is, Okay, here's a funny story.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Right.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
I got this one guy that was like, okay, it
was a white guy. It was this white top and
he was using pictures of a light skinned black boys
dick and talking in a a v like African American
vernacular English, be like, yeah, I'm gonna show up.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I'm gonna beat them cakes up.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
I'm gonna do all this.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
But I want you like you know, I want you blindfolded,
doors locked or door unlocked, like face down. But like
I live on like Martin Luther King Junior Way in Oakland.
You know it's always a scared street. Right, I'll leave
my door on locks. And I was also like, I
got roommates. This is the Bay Area. What the fuck
(12:07):
do you think I live alone?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Anyway?
Speaker 6 (12:09):
Right, I get to the door and I answered the door,
and it's like, not just any white boy. I'm talking
man Bun Berkeley, sweater, burken stocks.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
You got like Rachel Doloso.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
But he was like, oh.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Real, okay, no, but like y'all, but seriously, he has
some serious dick on him, and I still let him
hit right yeah, But then later he like hit me
up and was like, hey, man, that's fucked up. That
was supposed to be anonymous, and I was like, you
were supposed to be black. But the thing about it
(12:42):
was like.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
His it's like.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Here's but because it's a weird.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
His fetish was impersonating a download black man so he
could go fuck blindfolded black bottoms, like okay. But then
afterwards his boyfriend texted me on the app and was like, hey,
did this guy come over? Was he using like was
he using these black boys pictures?
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And then I was like yeah, yeah girl, yeah, yo,
man skitch. But then he was like, well how was
the six?
Speaker 6 (13:23):
And I was like and so I blocked him because
I thought that was like the guy or whatever.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Yeah, but so.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
That wild participating in someone else's fantasy without your knowledge,
where I.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
Can't do that every day. Also, like it was like
totally fine. Yeah, but then also I don't even when
we're like yeah the dick was good, I'm sorry, like
as I go through mana pause too, like part of
me too is just like good dick is like not
(14:04):
that hard to come by the right, you know, because
I remember being it, like, you know, in my twenties
and just remembering I always had to have the most
porn ideal of the most thunder god dig down, and like,
you know, the older you get, you're just like, oh,
I just need to get this shit done so I
can get on fucking, you know, make my spaghetti and
go to bed. You know, sex becomes as I treat
(14:30):
sex more as a natural function of you know, human life,
you know, and not always having to have it be
this like I don't know, this porn ideal or whatever
kind of changes in the shape of how I engage.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I'm very interested in these sort of porn ideals too,
right because on the one hand, we have talked about
how coming out in some places is not safe even
still to this day, or not comfortable for a lot
of people, which is why we stop people in the closet.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
But I do think there's like a flip.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Side to the a DL men are viewed, and part
of what causes the kind of controversy surrounding the idolizing
of the DL guy, the idea that there's something harder
about them in bed because they are straight or they
give the impression of like uber masculinity. I don't know,
how do you kind of unpack that when you're thinking
about this topic that's.
Speaker 6 (15:16):
All across the board, Okay, Like just if I say
the mean average of stories I hear with these men, right,
they are usually in their forties, the wife has had
the second kid and has stopped putting out. Right, They
usually are in social circle. Straight men have very close
(15:37):
social circles, and it's very hard for them to be
sleeping with women within those circles. So I think they
know they're at that age where a rectile dysfunction is
about to hit, and they're just like, this is my
last ten years to get it in, And so they
go into this realm like where they can have complete anonymousness,
like there's actually something very functional about like kind of
(15:59):
what they're doing and actually makes a lot of sense,
and even like the idea of them cheating, it's funny.
My mom, the biggest like sex positive awesome person is
like kind of like my mom, right, And I remember
like talking to my mom on time and being like, so, like, Mom,
do like all men cheat? And She's like, are you
fucking stupid? Women cheat? Like when a man is cheating,
(16:19):
Do you think he's only cheating with single women?
Speaker 5 (16:22):
He fucking someone's.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Girlfriend, fucking someone's wife, Like do the actual map Like
a lot of these guys, I do think that their
wives have like other lovers or doing whatever. Some of
these guys I think are coming in to like kind
of act out these things that these mans do. Some
shit to me where I'm like, if I was a woman,
i'd call the police. But you know, like look at me,
(16:43):
like I don't know, I'm pretty built. People fuck me
like I'm a linebacker, so it's like I could take
a beating, you know what I'm saying. But when you
talk about them, like the stories are so across the board,
and it really did make me think that like gay
really is a political identity.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (17:00):
I think it's like we live in a world where
there was always room for the behavior, but the identity
is what became the crisis. Men have found a way
to have sex with other men forever years. Yeah, but
now that we are in like this last seventy years
of this kind of gay revolution, the subject becomes like identity, right.
(17:25):
But then also sometimes I don't know, I feel there's
ways I feel kind of left behind by the current
sexual revolution in a way because I feel like it
didn't make more faggots.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
In my head.
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Sometimes I'll be in Oakland and they'll be like I'll
be hanging out with like the trans girls and the dolls,
and all of them want to get their trade and
go move to Sacramento and like live as white women
in pick of fences. And now download men feel like
they can just come in and fucking like, you know,
you bang up all the gay bussy and not fucking
owe nobody nothing. No fact, it's still been't asked to
(18:02):
marry me yet. And for all this representation and all
this openness, Like, why do I still feel like I
don't know, I would have had better luck if I
had just had like a lavender marriage in the fifties,
You know, it doesn't. I always want to feel like
there's a linear line we're moving towards freedom, but we
seem to always make this curve back saying to the
(18:23):
same old shit we've been stuck in.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I've definitely found a couple of men in my neighborhood
that are faceless profiles and are afraid of being like
seen on an apple, like Sniffies because of work or
their family, right, So it's like they're kind of out
of their social circles, but they're not out of families
at work, and at least in my neighborhood. I mean,
I live off Avenue in Puerto Rico, but it's a
(18:46):
lot of Latino men. I'm right at home, but it
is a lot of other Latino men.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
Every time someone puts a face pic on Sniffy's too,
I'm like, Reez is desperate. No one's there to be handsome,
you know. But actually there was a while. There was
a while. There was a period of about six months
where I like didn't take any photos. I just let
dudes come over because I was just like, how do
(19:16):
I say it? In my twenties, I worked at the bathhouse,
I worked at steam Marks.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
So there's something so crazy about like having spent most
of my life in a situation where everyone's in towels,
everything's kind of revealed. Men'll just walk up to you
and grab your dick and be like yes or no,
and like that's it. Where there's something about when you're
having sex with a DL dude, he's coming to your
house specifically just to see you, and I never even
(19:44):
noticed how there's something actually magical about it doesn't matter
what his dick look like, his body and also, to
be honest, who truly has an unattractive face? I don't
really think that that's like a true thing. Watching someone
just undress in front of you and only be there
for you is a way different magic than this kind
of like you know this the way gay man participate
(20:06):
in that like kind of bathhouse he like you're either
cut or you're not kind of culture. That's kind of
that was something that I thought was really special, And
even as I transition into my next phase, I'm trying
to find the outgay man that does that for me,
you know, because that's the two things that I can't
(20:27):
seem to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
There's something that can feel very almost romantic about that, right,
the just you experience, And there's a kind of intimacy
that I feel like closeted men actually sort of emanate
in in trusting that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
This person is extremely vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Right, we know that they are absolutely hiding this part
of themselves and they have chosen to come over. They
are exposing themselves in a way that they wouldn't normally do.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, it's really vulnerable.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Yeah, for sure, this one download trick. I've been seeing
him for five years. I bought his kid's soccer gear
because it's like, no.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
Because stepmom, well, well, because I looked.
Speaker 6 (21:09):
I thought about it too, because I was like, I
was like you we were hanging out. I'm like, yo,
like this fool has been digging me down for five years. Yeah, like,
which is longer than most any gay relationship. I was like, yeah,
you know what I'm saying. And my mom's boyfriends were
such dicks. I was just like, oh, the least I
could do is buy a kid's soccer gear to say
thank you or something.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
So have you ever had a relationship with the DL
person and had them come out as a results of
your relationship.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (21:39):
I don't think they came out. A lot of them
struggle with the notion of coming out. And these these
are like these are like gay and Latino men like
in their like forties and on, like they're trying to
catch up to the gay revolution that happened in the
nineties much less like this whole like this twenty twenty
fourth thing, where doing you know? So even sometimes when
(22:02):
I'm talking to them. I do have to think though, like, oh,
they are of that age where like even when I
moved to San Francisco, right and I was having sex
and you know I was, I was like that pre
prep bug chasing having sex with the Treasure Island media boys.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, you know, like we were.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
But we were those boys in San Francisco in the
early two thousands, and like, remember how dangerously we read
to people. But the generation just before us, they were
not having sex in their twenties like we were because
of like the age epidemic and like how.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Scary it was.
Speaker 6 (22:39):
And so now these men are like thrust into a
new era where it's like, oh, like you have to
send a dick pic to get laid. Oh I can
bang people without contracting HIV. But now that there's not
the stress of this, now I can deal with this
backlog of like emotional stress around what does it mean
to have sex with a man? What if I like
(23:01):
this person and I keep coming to him? How do
I say this to my family?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
You know, like.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
It's it's really it's really interesting, kind of like the
helix of the heliks of just like consciousness and sex
and all of them. I think I don't think everyone's
everyone's kind of fascinating. It's fascinating to watch someone kind
of learn how to walk, and like how we're all
learning how to walk and reconfigure it whatever age we're at,
(23:28):
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Oh gosh, all right, we've had such a good time
with you. Unfortunately we do have to end.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But I want to know what is coming up for
you this summer and where can people find you online?
Speaker 6 (23:42):
I'm on rentman dot com word right now, I'm like,
not even charging. I'm just doing the boyfriend experience as
long as you buy me records.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 6 (23:53):
And then I'm going on tour with my band on
the East Coast this week, so you might not see that.
But this summer leaky around, I'm finishing my sci fi
book and yeah, just vacationing, hanging out in Oakland. So
you can find me on Instagram at Bronton's Parnell.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Oh my god, amazing. We'll have to take a field
trip and come up to visit you. Yes, you can
stay in the Sniffy office.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
After the break, we will be talking to a deal
guy about his experience on Sniffi's and so much more.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Stick around will be right back.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
It's actually gonna be me.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
So this is normally the portion of the show where
we list our guest achievements and plug his latest product
or release, but we can't do that today because our
guest is anonymous. We aren't revealing any details about him
because he is closeted and we want to protect his privacy.
He is masked, and we are altering his voice.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
We're really thankful for his willingness to come speak about
this top topic. Welcome to a cruising Confessions. How you
doing I'm doing good?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, yeah, amazing, Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Thank you. I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Truly, No, we appreciate you being here. So I think
the first question is one of a lot of people
must be asking themselves. Right, it's twenty twenty four. It
feels like, more than any other time in history, it
is safe for people to come out. So what is
it that makes you feel that you need to stay
closeted or deal?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
I think, like you said, I mean, the only reason
why you're so deal at this point is because you
feel like you need to because it's New York, like,
it's twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Four, and how long have you been DL?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Fuck? All my life. Yeah, I mean, I feel like
there's stages to d on this. I was saying in
the beginning, of course, it's like DL to the point
where you're not even sharing a picture of yourself, and
then there's DL where it's just like, Okay, some people know,
but like the core people in my life don't know,
you know. So I feel like I've been DAL my
(26:00):
whole life. But then i just went through the chapters
of d on this and I'm in this face now
where like some people know, but like the people that
are like super core in my life there they don't know. So,
you know, it's like I'm DEAL to some people, I'm
not and then to other people like I'm not the
d O because they know who I am.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So, and do you do any intermingling between those two
groups of people or do you keep them separate?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I don't know, we keep them separate. I think no,
that would be a disaster to like mix them, because
it's like you're just like two different people, two different worlds,
you know, So I'm mixing them. You just you put
yourself in a really really fucked position.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, you know, for real.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I'm also curious, do you identify as gay or bisexual.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Yeah, I'm definitely gay, but you know, fun night's a
fun night. Like if I I think I had like
I had a girlfriend of dated girls blah bah blah,
but you know, I definitely want to focus on guys.
It's super different with guys, like especially with like hook
up culture. It's not this same as like when you're
dating like hetero cis woman. I was telling I think
(27:06):
Adam the director, like Sniffy's and all of that. It's
like it's like go Puffer Dick and what's on demand
at any time in any city. It's probably in more
cities than fucking Uber. Oh yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
For sure Sniffy's is international. We're here like France, Germany.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Yeah, but not in the UAE or some shit.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Do you ever think there would be a time where
you'd feel comfortable coming out to close friends and family.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
For the foreseeable future. No, the idea of of me
telling someone like telling them like why would I do that?
Would I ever go to someone and be like, oh,
like I fucked this girl last night? Like if anything,
there should be a choice, like when you first like
are born, like oh I want to know what X
y Z is gonna be. But now it's just like, oh,
(27:59):
like where's your wife? Like oh blah blah blah when
you're having kids, And how do you respond to those
questions when you get them depends on who it is. Again,
this goes back to like certain people know I'm dh
certain people don't. But like if certain people ask me
and I don't want them to know, I go along
with it, like you know, I'm getting on. Maybe someone
would say like I'm lying in a sense, but for me,
(28:22):
it's like I see it as protection.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Safety, true, and that's the reality for people, right it
might not be someone's individual experience. And I think, you know,
we talked about this a brontest too. There's a lot
of folks in New York and San Francisco that are like,
you need to come out?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Why you come out?
Speaker 4 (28:38):
I hate that song?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well, yeah they don't.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Everyone's situation and experience is different, and there are places
where it's not safe. Sometimes around family it's not safe.
Sometimes with work it's not safe. So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Facts And there was one time I was in La.
I was in La just for personal reasons and there
was this guy that I met and he was like
he was basically like demeaning me because I wasn't out,
and then he was telling me and I was telling
him that looked like it's so stressful, blah blah blah,
it's so stressful, like I feel like the weight on
(29:09):
my shoulders touch shit. And he was on home. It
must not be that heavy if you haven't like came
out out. He's tweaking like you know, it's just yeah,
like it's levels to d on this, and then there's
like a level of respect that you some people should have.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Totally. Yeah, we got to meet each other where we're at. Absolutely, yeah,
we got to meet each other.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Where we're at.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I'm curious if the opposite is also true.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
If you ever feel like you get people chasing after
you because your d O whenever you use an.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
App, Yeah, but it's mainly older guys. Interesting young guys
are not DL chasers, Like it's always the older ones.
It's always ones that are like married or just completely
not in the mix at all. But yeah, it's never
young guys. But honestly, even if you are d teacher,
(30:00):
like I don't care, like most of the time we are,
we both want just one thing, so like, let's just
get it.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yeah, at the end of the day, no matter how
we identify, and they.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Don't care to be able to say page because you're
not dating them. You know, they only people really only
care if you're like dating each other.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
What was like one of the hottest hookups or meetups
that you can remember having.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
I mean, it's pretty exploitit or like t M I,
but I didn't like I didn't like, I didn't not
for like a long time. Okay, so you were ready, Yeah,
I was really ready, but then.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Your voice just dropped it often when he said you
were ready.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
But then I went to the parkah, so just like
it's hell, are people here?
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Apparently?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
So I meet this like Puerto Rican guy and you.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Know, we're like the one.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
We're doing, the one doing the two and this guy
is just like watching us. But like I think that
what made it so hot was like when I it
was like a three day nuts when I know, it
was just so much and then he just like he
just not as soon as I did that with the
guy that was watching. So that was probably the hottest,
just because it was just so much none. I was
just like it felt so good. But other than that,
(31:14):
like I feel like every time I do it, it's hot,
Like why would I do it? And it's not hot?
Like those are the type of people that have a
problem with like you're just out here fucking just the fuck.
Like it's okay to like just do it as an activity,
but like what did you get from this? Like did
you even enjoy it? You know, like did you enjoy it?
Or are you just doing it just to do it?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So well, sometimes you don't know until you meet up
with the person, right, you think you're gonna enjoy it,
and then you get there and you're like, oops, maybe not.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yeah, that's when you have to do the Oh I
got to go somewhere or I have to do something
or someone cold. Yeah, because there's no point in doing
it if there's not like a if you're going to
regret it after it's just like bro, like it's not fun,
not fun at all.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Do you feel like you've ever been in, uh something
close to a relationship with another guy?
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, for sure, Like I've been in a relationship where
I was more recently, like we were both on the
same page in terms of like out or like halfway out.
We're both like halfway out, so we're very understanding both family,
same family problems, whatever. And then I've been with a
guy who is like on the opposite page of me,
(32:20):
like just told his parents his whole team knows blah
blah blah, and yeah, like I don't know, Like it
was definitely different experiences, But I think I must date
someone on the same page as me, because if not,
like I was looking cringed out the fact that you
to his parents like, damn, bro, like I don't have
(32:41):
confident in you anymore. Yeah, he probably wasn't until his parents,
Like I don't see it. I don't want that. It's
not fun it whatsoever, so.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Scary and I'm out, Like that seems really terrify. Ye,
But thinking about like when I wasn't out and then,
I mean.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I've always nowt, but like there was no there was
a couple of years where I was masquerading as a
straight man.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Oh yeah, see, you're giving me flashbacks to like high
school and college. Like I was to school very out,
but in college I still hadn't come out to my parents.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Like I mean, I was dating men, I was like
going to a gay party. I was very out socially,
but I went to school on Rhode Island. My parents
were in Florida, so I was like, how the fun Yeah,
absolutely not. And they're Puerto Rican, they're Catholic. I was like, okay,
I like I don't even want to start. And then
the funny thing is my first job out of college
was editing for a gay porn company. I didn't tell them,
(33:34):
but my mom found out about that. And she found
out about that before I had told her myself I
was gay.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
She kind of knew, right, like your parents are our suspect.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
But it was just really funny because I had to
come out to my mom as like a gay porn
editor and gay at the same time.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
But I thought they weren't good with technology. Bro, how
did they find out?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I'm like, how did she find out about this job?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
So that was my fault.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I went on a comedy show because they were looking
to interview a porn producer. Oh god, but it was
like a how Many Central show? And I was like,
my mom doesn't watch Comedy Central? Houck is she ever
gonna find this? This was like well before like like
YouTube was huge, or like she had a smartphone, even
like I didn't even have a smartphone. I did that
interview and she only found it because I think she
was getting divorced from my dad, and my dad found
(34:15):
it and like tried to bring it up for I
don't know how to piss her off or something. So
it's just really funny. And I was like, yeah, yeah,
you did see that interview. It was funny, right, Like
it was wild.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Mom, I hope you're not watching Sniffies.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
To be fair, I did not have a mask on
when I did my interview. I was very Yeah, I
was face out. I had a mustache. It was hard
to miss.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Yeah. The thing about these you never know, like you
never know who's DL obviously d O. So like anyone
can be watching this, like my fucking uncles or my dad.
That shit is wild. But I'm not updating anything on LinkedIn,
and so like we should be good. Yeah, yeah, I'm
not going like a j letter or like out magazine
(34:59):
or some shit.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I mentioned a LinkedIn status like I'm bravely coming out
as DL.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Podcast. Yeah I love that.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
That's an exclusive. That's good for you guys.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, we did get the exclusive. We get that sixty
minutes blurred face voice.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, this is great. I feel like a journalist. It's
giving budget it's giving budget. It's giving budget.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
All right.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Well, thank you so much for showing up and sitting
down with us and having a conversation. It's been such
a pleasure getting to know you a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Yeah, really appreciate it. Your stories are really hot and
it was also kind of fun. And I you know,
I hope one day this does become less stressful for you.
But I think you've offered so much insight to our
audience on why some people might not feel ready or
safe coming out. And I think it's really important to again,
like Chris said to me, people where they're at for sure.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Me where I am. It's a good position.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
In the park.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Maybe another Puerto Rican in the park. Stick around, don't
go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Today's episode was really great.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah, And what I hope that people get from it,
whether you're out or you're not out, that there is
a place for you in this world, and if you
aren't finding what you're looking for in terms of like community,
that just go where it's warm, you know, find the
people that do care about who you are and where
your safety lies, and go to them. You know.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me
from this episode is how often we point the finger
people who are in the closet or DL folks and
call them liars and you know, to tell them that
they are holding sort of internalized homophobia. But what I've
gotten from the conversation with our last guest in particular,
is that it's usually external forces that make people feel
(36:46):
pressure to stay in the closet.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
I don't think it's an individual's fault. It's our culture.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
It's a mentality of homophobia and queer phobia that still
pervades so many parts of our culture and cultures around
the globe. So really, to me, it seems like an
institutional and cultural problem. And I hope that the next time,
you know, you feel the urge to read someone down
for being in the closet or identifying as DL, you
think about the external factors that might be playing into
(37:11):
that decision, and how for some people it really is
a matter of.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Security, yeah, and safety, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
All right, Well, that is the end of this episode
of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Thank you so much for joining us. It's been such
a wild ride, and we hope you tune in for
the next one. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is directed by Adam Barron,
produced by Stevie Williams and Karen mc femino, and executive
produced by Elin Martin.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's, the ultimate map based cruising.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Platform for gay by and curious people ready to cruise.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Check out the map at snippies dot com and follow
Sniffy's on socials at Snippy's app.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
Put job Good, put job, put put Joe puts up
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