November 6, 2025 • 48 mins
Fisting used to be a niche fetish practiced by kinksters in dungeons, but today “Fisting is the It Girl” according to writer and expert fister Alexander Cheves. In this deep dive, Alex explains how the availability of fisting content on Twitter has led to a surge of interest from younger queer folks in recent years. But there’s a lot that first time fist fuckers need to know about how to prepare and train for play, in order to avoid serious injuries. Luckily, Alex has plenty of smart tips (and sweet stories) to share for both beginners and pros. Get the x-lube and puppy pads ready. It’s time to go Fisting For Compliments.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer
discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Put jo pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
Put your pussy up, Put put your pussy up.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. I'm Gabelon Sadez and.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm christotison Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime world
of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We talk to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
practical advice that you can use at home.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Joy, Put Joe, pussy, put Joe, put put your put,
put your put.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Today, we're going deep, elbow deep, right beyond the knuckle,
So whip out the X lube and get the puppy pads.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Ready because this episode is all about fisting. Game.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That was a very loaded transition. I'm really excited to hear,
what's your experience with fisting? Not much. I'll tell you
that I've tried it. I have told I am an
ideal size for fisting. Okay, people look at my height
and they're like, would you fist me? And I'm like,
ninety nine percent of the time, the answer is no,
(01:23):
It personally does very little for me. I'm not that
interested in it. I did you still Look up with
this guy when I first moved to New York and
he was like, Hey, I want to ask you something.
He was like, super shy about it, but he wanted
me to fist him, and I didn't know what that
entailed at all. Yeah, So he sent me home with homework.
He gave me a book on fisting, and he was like,
read this and if you think you'd be interested in
(01:43):
doing it to me, come back and we can do it.
I was like, all right, And I read the book
and I learned a lot of things that would have
terrified me if I'd gone into fisting. So there's like
a whole section in the book that talked about what
happens once you go beyond the knuckle uh huh, that
like the body just kind of sucks.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
The rest of your army.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
That is correct, and I'm like, that is exactly what happened,
and it is very unsettling.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
It is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It felt like something out of alien, you know what
I mean. It was like and it made a sound.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, it was wild.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So again, I'm really glad that I read up before
doing that. I think I did it more because I
was into him, but it felt less for me. Okay,
it felt very much for him. Wow, Okay, we are
so different. Yeah, because your eyes are telling me that
you have a story you did definitely like to share.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah. I mean I fisted someone for the first time
when I was sixteen.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I didn't even know how anal sex worked at sixteen.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No, I entered like a craigsist ad and he like
asked me if I would be into it, and I
did not know what he was talking about, and he said,
don't worry, I'll show you. And like I showed up
and there was, you know, a man and a container
of crisco where old school, old school. Yeah, and that
sort of started me on my fist and journey and
I've been doing it ever since. So was that a
positive experience? I mean, you were clearly too.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Young to be doing that, but like, was it a yeah?
I mean yes, yes, well well yes yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
But I I love it. I think it's one of
the like most intimate acts you can engage with sexually.
I truly enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Is this like the regular part of your sexual practice
or is it like depending on the partner?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Chris, you contain multitudes. I do multitude, But fair, you're
the fister. I'm the fister, okay, top I see and
I have massive hands.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah you do. I know.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I feel like I'm the beginning. I'm like the training
dildo and you're the like literally not for the novice. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
If you've listened to our show for the past two seasons,
you've heard us deep dive on lots of kings and fetishes,
from puppy play to chastity to wrestling.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
But fisting seems to be one of the biggest fetishes
in the queer community, and as years go by, it
just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
With fisting videos all over Gagewitter, Fitzfluencer's pushing prolapsed dildos,
and more and more young people getting into it. It's
almost like we're approaching fisting's total crossover from kink to
common practice.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
In this episode, we're going to talk to one of
our favorite sex writers, the incredible Alex Cheves, who first
gained a following as a sex writer dolling out advice
for The Advocate. In twenty twenty one, he published his
debut memoir, My Love Is a Beast Confessions, where he
talks with a raw, poetic honesty about his sexual awakenings, fisting, kink,
sex work, HIV, and so much more.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Please welcome to Snippy's Cruising Confessions. Alex Chevez.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Alex welcome, Thank you for being here, Thank you for
having me, Thank you so much for calling in. For
listeners who don't know, Alex is calling in from Berlin,
the kinky sex capital of Europe.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
In the sex capital of the world.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I would say, so this might not be the case
in Germany, given that you are the kinky sex capital
of the world. Correct, But I feel like I have seen,
at least anecdotally, in the US a lot more people
talking about fisting. Do you think fisting is having a
moment right now?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Is she the it girl?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Fisting? Is the it girl? It?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Fisters talk about fisting Twitter It is the phenomenon in
the fisting world, and I think it's been the it
girl for a little bit now. If anything, I feel
like we're on our way out of fisting Twitter. But fisting,
I think in a few years is going to be
a whole generation of fisters who met each other through
Twitter because for whatever reason, it was one of those
lanes of sex content on Twitter that just really created
(05:23):
a tight community. Were not that type, but I'm just exploded.
It was one of those kinks that really took off
in the era of social media.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It is interesting that you mentioned Twitter because I feel
like that site was one of the few social media
sites that did not censor sexual content. And even on
sites like OnlyFans, I believe things like fisting are still
not allowed to be distributed or shown platforms.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
That's why I got kicked off of Only Fans way.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, I put fisting videos on there and I didn't
know the rules, and they like, sorry, you can't do this.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Do they have customer service? Can you call it and
be like, my fisting videos are taken down?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So a lot goes into shaping what you're into. Are
there any parts of your life that made you gravitating
towards fisting.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
Yeah, it's not exciting. I found fisting the way a
lot of people did my age is through porn. And crucially,
for a long time, fisting lived in the avenue of
things that I was never interested in actually doing. And
I think a lot of people have those things, right,
You have these kinks that you might watch, but are
things that you're never really interested in actually living out.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
And for years, actually.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Fisting was always this like, oh, look at this cool
thing online, but I never wanted it to be part
of my life. I never once took the steps of
like training and finding a regular fisting playmate.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
It just kind of happened.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
And then once that happened, I was like, oh, okay,
now I'm into fisting, Like, now I'm real I do it.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
And what was it about that experience that made you
jump headfirst into it?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
That first experience was.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It fulsome It was with one of these amazing dumbs
that just I never once said I was into fisting.
I never once expressed interest. But after a nice long session,
he just knew. He just knew when to put loub
on his hand and slide it in, and it was
amazing how he could just tell and he could read
my body and it happened without any dialogue, any communication.
(07:12):
Now to clarify, that's not what I tell other people
to do, and that's not whatever to say, Like, that's
like I would tell everybody to, you know, communicate, talk
to somebody, train, carefully, use toys. Like I don't think
that the way that I got into fisting is necessarily
a way that I would prescribe other people to get
into fisting.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Just to put that out there, Yeah, I mean that
seems kind of as a person who's like intofisting, like
that feels I don't want to say crazy, but like
I don't know, you're just sort of like it just
sort of happened one day, you know. But I do understand,
like as a fitting top, Like do understand being able
to read someone's body and knowing when they're ready for it,
(07:51):
because the body will tell you.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
The body will tell you yeah, and my body was
just like read, let's go.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Was it kind of tricky for you to get into
the rhythm of it at first?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
No, I found it very difficult. And I think a
lot of first time fisters run into this issue where
I have my first experience it's a ton of fun.
I love it, I want to do it again. And then,
for the first time ever, I have to start communicating
this to potential partners. And it was actually quite difficult
from that point on because there seemed to be a
strange resistance to playing with a beginner, and I talk
(08:24):
to a lot of beginners now and that seems to
still be the case, which is really unfortunate. And I
feel like sometimes fisting Twitter and fisting media exacerbates this
problem that we as a community tend to kind of
prioritize very advanced bodies and very advanced tolls, and we
don't necessarily make enough space for the beginners.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I mean, I think, as a fisting top who like
we want, I have really big hands, and so beginners
aren't always my favorite because the time commitment portion of
it I don't always have. And it's not because I'm
not interested in helping someone learn and grow. It's just
because it's like I've only got two hours on a Wednesday.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
There actually are guys out there who really erotically enjoy
the process of training and working somebody open, and that's
the dream, right, Like, if you're a beginner, you kind
of want to find these guys that like opening a
new butt is kind of their fetish. So I would
tell everybody to maybe make that your focus in the beginning,
because yeah, I've trained beginner bottoms too, and they're always like,
I'm gonna come over on Tuesday and I'm gonna take
(09:27):
my first fist today and I'm like, Babe, I don't
know how to tell you this, but it's not gonna
happen the first time we try it. It's not gonna
happen the first three times we try it. And that
is that is a huge commitment. That's a big time commitment. Yeah,
I'm in New Yorker, I've got things to do.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, she's a busy girl.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
She's a busy girl.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
She's only got time for fingers today.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So then what does that kind of entail? What should
people expect if they're kind of starting out.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
I think most people go to toys, and that's my
advice to most people training or just starting out. One
thing I commonly tell people is that you don't advance
as fister with fists. You advance through toy play and
solo sessions, because it's really about learning your own body
and how something just feels up there. It sounds very unsexy,
(10:10):
but you do have to kind of treat it like
a gym membership, like once a week, I'm gonna sit
on this butt plug and go really slow and use
lots of lube.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
And make it sort of my solo time.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
And you do kind of have to keep a schedule,
like if you're really seriously training, some people say you
should be doing some ass play once a week, some
people say it a couple times a week. I would
say at least every two weeks. You're not necessarily fisting
with other people every time. In fact, most of those
times should be solo and with yourself, And that's what
I recommend people do.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
That's what I did.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Did you have a mentor to sort of help you
along in this process?
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Actually, I just met fisting friends fisting sisters. Yes, yeah,
and we're still really close because of it. Like, if
you're starting off as a fist bottom, your best friends
are other fist bottoms who can tell you toy recommendations
and their favorite lube. And yeah, it's like little things
like that that you don't really think about that you
need other bottoms to coach you through.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Now We've talked a bit about fisting bottoms, but I'm
wondering if you have any advice for first time fisting tops.
I feel like the conception for a lot of fisting
tops is like, oh, well, you just throw some glub
on your hand and like slowly slide in and you're good. Right, Like,
what do fisting tops need to know and what do
they need to be bringing to the table.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
The saying in the fisting community is the best tops
or verse guys or you know, former bottoms. I've known
some tops that are very, very naturally skilled tops that
have never taken a fist or aren't interested in taking
a fist themselves and not interested in bottoming, but they
are rarer. I think every top could benefit from at
least trying to bottom a little bit, because otherwise you
(11:43):
don't really know where you're going and how it feels.
And I became a better top after I had been
fisting for years, and now I'm very very verse, and
I fist top just as much as fist bottom. Now,
if you're just starting off and you're not interested in bottoming,
I'd say learn from a very experienced fist botto and
ask questions and ask what feels good and it's okay
to do kind of a clinical training session. I've done
(12:07):
that with beginner tops sore. I've been like, look, this
isn't going to be sexy. This might not be the
hottest session you ever have, but like, I'm going to
go through the steps and be like, here's how you
mix the lube, here's how you lay down blankets, and
then I'll literally like do a diagram of my hand
and I'll be like, okay, you start this way, and
then it's just stop, go, stop, go, kind of traffic
light telling him when to push forward, when to pull back.
(12:29):
And it's not a sexy session, but it is how
you train somebody to top. And I think every aspiring
fistop needs a few sessions like that.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So what feels good about fisting? In your own words?
Speaker 5 (12:42):
So, I can't explain the pleasure behind it except that
it's the best orgasm I can feel. It's the greatest
physical pleasure I can experience.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
And I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Now there is something about watching someone get fisted and.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
You're getting lost in the visual Right now now I am.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I'm thinking about the last time I fisted behind and
I see it with you. It was truly magical and
just watching that look on their face and like the
pleasure that their body is receiving, it is like top tier.
It's magic.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
We You can also have an anal orgasm, right, Yes,
I think I don't know if I've ever ejaculated from fisting,
but I've had like a full body shaking anal orgasm.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, that's the whole New world.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Orgasms are kind of the best thing out there. Honestly,
They're really because you can have like multiple of them,
you can have back to back, and like it took
me a long time to experience one.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
And actually the first time I had an anal orgasm
was at a big group fisting party where they were
like fifteen slings set up and I swear it sounded
like somebody was giving birth to a cow. I mean
I just yelled for minutes, like just shouted.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
That was it. It was great.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, So not to harsh the vibe in the room,
not to pull out my whole fist at once, but
I'm curious. I do want to know about some of
the risks involved with fisting. I know that some of
them are highly stigmatized and exaggerated, but I know that
some are practical concerns that we have to think about.
What are some health and safety concerns that you'd encourage
people to think about.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Several I mean, I've been fisting for well over a decade,
and I've been involved in the fisting scene, and i
know multiple friends that have been in the emergency room
that have had surgery, that have had such severe injuries
that they will never be able to fist to the
same extent that they did before. If you get injured,
you can get permanent scar tissue inside your rectum, and
(14:39):
scar tissue doesn't stretch, so you can stop even your
regular like not even fisting, but just anal sex life
for the rest of your life. So it is a
high risk sex sport. But you can go too fast
in the very beginning and push it, and because you're tight,
you're going to get hurt or when you're going from
like punches to like elbow, you know, and there's a
(14:59):
lot of fists life between those two places, and it's
always in those two spots very beginning or pretty advanced
that people seem to get pretty badly hurt. So people
do need to think about gloves is a way to
moderate risk and actually just going really slow and listening
to your body and obviously using proper loube. But the
(15:20):
biggest predicator of injury potential infesting is fisting on kims,
on substances that override your own ability to read pain
and read your own bodies limits. And everybody I know
who's gotten hurt and fisting has done so high. They
were pushing it past their own limit and they weren't
listening to their body, and that's how you get hurt.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, no, thank you for mentioning the kims and fisting,
because I think as a sober person, it took me
a long time to get back into fisting sober. It
took a lot of conversations with people who do it,
and just like being able to understand that, like fisting
can happen without kims, and it can happen without poppers.
Like I know people who take doubles without poppers, which
(16:02):
is mind boggling to me, but they exist.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Sorry, I used to term doubles. Is that exactly what
it sounds like?
Speaker 6 (16:09):
It?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (16:12):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Do you mean two heads? Double?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Doubles are my favorite thing?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Interesting, You guys should form a doubles team and then
we'll go bowling.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
It'll be great.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So I kind of wanted to address another misnomer. I
think for a lot of folks, there's this idea that
fisting quote unquote ruins other forms of sex, that like,
once you've found fisting, you never want to do anything else.
So I'm curious what would you say to folks that
have that concern.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I have been fisting for well over ten years, and
I love other kinds of sex, and I have a
lot of other kinds of sex. I don't know any
fisters who only fist. I don't know a single fister
who like that's it.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I mean, I do have a friend who.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Always have a friend. If there's anybody that has a
friend and it's Chris.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
She does have other sacks, but she's less likely to
prioritize that over a fisting appointment totally.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Like I went on a date recently with this guy
and he wasn't into fisting, and we had a couple
of dates and he was like, so are you going
back and I'm gonna fucket your place? And I was like,
I'm gonna be honest with you, dude. If I'm douching tonight,
it's for fisting and you're not into fisting, so sometimes
sometimes yeah, Like if you're gonna put in the work
of cleaning out, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And that's the way it comes down to. He's like,
if I'm douchinge, then I'm going to get a fist.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
What does douching and preparation for fisting look like compared
to getting fucked by a dick.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
I don't know if there's a single monolithic answer to that.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Because some guys, these mysterious creatures out there, have these
magical golden rectums that just work after one poop and
they're spotless and they're fine. They tend to be vegan,
and some people, like I fully admit here that I'm
one of the people that takes a little bit longer,
or my body's a little bit more funky. I have
(18:02):
lactose in tolerance, and so I have to be much
more careful with what I eat beforehand, and so my
duching regimen is going to be completely different. I know
guys who spend twenty minutes and they're fine, they can
get fisted all night. And I know guys who spend
two hours getting ready and they're like, okay. I think
I'm like mostly okay, and it all depends on your piping,
your body, your system, but duching's not good for you,
and I would tell most people to try and minimize
(18:24):
the duching process as much as you can, especially since I.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Came to Europe.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
I'm actually one of those people that I'm completely comfortable
with just giving it a shot. If it's just a dick,
I'll be like, well, let's just try it and if not,
we can wash up after, Whereas I would never do
that with fisting. I would never be like, let's just
give it a shot and see.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
How it goes. Like No, with fisting, I'm gonna imagine.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Three hours later, Yeah, yeah, What have you learned about
yourself through fisting?
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Actually, I've learned a lot about my gender, or the
idea of gender, because when I first came out, I
was like hard gay, like strictly gay.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I felt very very.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Sis and I went through a whole gender journey and
I still feel very sis gender. But fisting gave me
this space to sort of challenge that, and it certainly
challenged my sexual orientation. And thanks to fisting, I realized
I'm not strictly gay. I will have sex with any
person of any gender. I have sex with men, women, transmn,
trans women, and the great thing about fisting is that
(19:23):
gender wise, it's very equalizing. I've met so many amazing
fist toop trans men who they're like, my hands are
my dick, and they feel so empowered by fisting because
everybody has hands in a butthole, so gender really becomes
irrelevant in fisting. We all have the same parts, and
anybody can be a top and anybody can be a
bott of. Anybody can be dominant, anybody can be subby.
(19:45):
I've never had a very strong connection to my dick.
I'm not a big dick guy. And there was a
moment a few years ago in my fisting journey where
I was like, oh my god, what does that mean?
Am I broken? Shouldn't I have a strong connection to
my dick? Does that mean that I'm not cisgendered? Should
I start questioning this? And in the end I came
to the understanding that I'm very cis gender. But I'm
grateful that fisting gave me a space to ask those questions.
(20:09):
You know, when I was like hard fist bottoming a lot,
I felt very connected to feminine energy, especially when I
started adding like laingerie and stuff like that. And I
find that that's true with a lot of fisters. We
tend to be really comfortable with gender fluidity, with non
traditional gender presentation because fisting as a culture renders gender
kind of mood. We all have the same parts, we
(20:30):
all have the same bodies.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
I mean, like one time I was.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
At Berkheim and I was like standing in a corner,
like in my little red Jox trap and a tiny,
petite Cis woman came up to me and like cruised
me hard, and she was like, hey, I see you're
wearing a red Jox trap. Does that mean you're into fisting?
And I was like yes, and she was like cool,
I have gloves and I have lube. I'm a fist top.
(20:55):
And I was like fuck yeah. And in that moment
I liked her energy and I was like, oh, you're
a domb like you're alpha energy, and she was like tiny,
you know so much short. I'm like to her, I'm
a relatively big guy. And I swear she could have
led me around that club on a leash, like she
was complete dumb energy. And in that moment I became
(21:15):
complete sub energy. And it was beautiful because we were
both into fisting, and so we spoke the same language,
and so bodies gender. It all felt so irrelevant. We connected,
We linked, and she was this amazing fist top and
I was this quivering little fist bottom and it was great.
It was so hot and connections like that happened in fisting.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
This feels like a great place to take a break.
So when we come back, we're going to be asking
Alex for more tips and tricks for first time fisters
and the fist curious.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Stay tuned, Welcome back. We're here with Alex Cheves, writer
and expert fister, and in this act we're going to
be pumping Alex for more practical advice that you can
use the blossom into the fullest fister you can be.
So in your book you talk about being HIV positive
(22:05):
and I'm wondering, how does that relate to your fisting practice.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Well, I only started fisting after I was positive, so
I don't know. I've been positive since before prep, so
I still remember like dating before anybody knew about PREP
and how awful it was. But actually, interestingly enough, when
I first tested positive, and I was in my junior
year in college, I had a really progressive, good doctor,
(22:29):
and at that time it took a long time to
get on medication. I would have to wait months before
I got my first meds. And so he was like,
you know, there are safer sex practices that don't involve
fluid transmission, and fisting is one of them, So if
you want to try that, And in that moment, I
was like, I would never.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And here we are, and here we are playing doubles.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, has PREP changed the fisting scene at all for you?
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I don't know if PREP changed fisting for me, but
PREP profoundly changed dating for me.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I actually tested positive the year that PREP was approved
as a drug, but it seemed to take about two
years at least in my memory, for it to become
part of the gay ethos. And for those two years,
the minute I told somebody that I was positive, I
got blocked on every platform and every app. But the
fear in the stigma was much higher, and PREP profoundly
(23:25):
changed life for me, and I think for most HIV
positive people, because suddenly negative people could protect themselves and
so they weren't as powerless. That certainly empowered people who
are HIV negative, but empower people who are HIV positive too,
because it made the stakes of having sex with someone
a little bit lighter, a little bit more easy.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah, we've talked a little bit about like Cynthia Slater
and some fisting trailblazers throughout history on the podcast. But
I'm curious, what's your sense of fisting as a historical practice.
You know, we read back and it seems like it
was quite popular, especially in the Bay Area in the seventies.
So what is you sense of how like fisting has
evolved throughout the years or sort of its historical context
(24:05):
within our community.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I mean, we know that fisting has been around, like
I mean in versions of the kamasuture, there's inserting a
hand into a into an orifice, but we're doing a
lot more than that now.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Shoulder deep, shoulders, yeah, hands coming out of my mouth. Yeah,
that's the point. I love your ambition. I love you
what a trendsetter.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
I got really lucky in the fact that one of
my first regular playmates was this very experienced had been
fisting for forty years, Like he was fisting at the
underground fisting clubs in San Francisco back in the mid seventies,
and so he'd been fisting for most of his life
by that point, and so he really was a great
partner to learn from and train for and trained with. Actually,
(24:48):
one time I just asked him what suddenly made us
start doing this? And he was very blunt. He said,
when synthetic recreational drugs became widely available in the American
public and ammal nitrates came out, he was like, fisting
did take off. The intensity and the extreme ways that
we play in festing do go hand in hand with
(25:09):
substances a lot more so than I would say that
another fetish scenes. And I think that only recently is
there a generation of queer men who are critiquing that
and re looking at fisting sober because we've lost so
many friends. We've had so many friends struggle with addiction issues,
and fisting is kind of a gateway drug.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Another thing that I think scares people away from fisting.
We got to talk about the prolapses. I think some
people really love seeing them and some people get really
freaked out when they see them. And I don't think
prolapses are like specific to fisting, but they seem to
go hand in hand if you will back in by
porn Day's people love to like show their low prolapse
and the calm leaking out at the end, and we
(25:48):
all clap and it would be amazing. Some of them
were bigger than others. I'm not here to I'm not
a size queen, right, but I'm wondering when it comes
to fisting, are there any risks to one's body in
terms of prolapses? And then how much of it is
just sort of like fear at seeing the inside of someone.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I have to be very upfront and say, I'm not
a doctor and I'm not a medical professional, so I
don't know if I'm the most qualified to answer that.
I know a lot of people who do prolapse. Do
I personally believe that prolapsing is completely harmless? No, I don't,
But I don't think that fisting as a whole is
completely harmless. There is a certain point at which fisting
(26:24):
does become body modification. Yeah, in part because of fisting Twitter,
we're all competing and uploading our videos and trying to
outdo each other. And over the last ten years, I
think that the frequency at which I hear about my
friends getting injured has increased, and it seems that the
level of intensity at which people are fisting has dramatically increased,
(26:46):
and with that will come more risk because more intense
fisting means a higher likelihood of injury. Fisting hasn't been
like this mainstream ever. So I will be one of
the first generations to have grown up in a fisting
community that I want get bigger. By the time I'm
what forty to fifty, I'll have been fisting for like
most of my sexual development, and so will have all
(27:07):
my friends. And I'm really curious whether or not when
we're there, we'll look back and say, oh, that fisting
is dangerous. There very well could be long term health
effects and deleterious health effects that come as a result
of frequent fisting. We actually just don't know because in
the pre Internet days, fisting was niche and obscure and small,
and so we just didn't have the kind of data
(27:27):
on whether or not fisting was safe long term.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
And let's face it, in the.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Eighties, everybody died, you know, and so we lost a
whole generation, and so we lose that data. Yeah, now
that people are living longer and queer men are living
full lives as fisters, we've yet to see if fisting
is safe long term.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I also feel like the age of people who are
interested in fisting is getting younger and younger. Right Like
when I started, obviously I was really young, but like
the only people that were into fisting were in their
forties and fifties and beyond. And now I know twenty
three year olds who are gape investors, you know, like advance.
I'm like, you're twenty three, what age should you start
(28:08):
this process?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know?
Speaker 5 (28:10):
When I was twenty one, I remember when I was
asking for somebody to train me or somebody to fist
with me, the most common response was concern. Advanced fisting
guys would be like, you're too young, you shouldn't be
doing this yet. Which is interesting because now I know
twenty one year olds that are like way past where
(28:30):
I am at, and that is fisting Twitter. That when
something's regularly available and at your fingertips online, more and
more people are going to do it at a younger
at younger age, and there is a competitive element to
fisting that really I think is the biggest danger in
the scene and the biggest problem in the scene is
the way it's talked about online is that it's a
goal oriented fetish. Everyone's like, I want to get to
(28:52):
doubles or I want to get to punches, or I
want to get past the elbow, and like they see
it now as this fetish of growth and development that
comes with like markers and tears, and I want to
get to that marker, and then I want to get
to that marker. And that is the wrong way to
view fisting, and that's how people get hurt. That's a
really dangerous way to you fisting, because the reality is
(29:13):
that some bodies can't fist to the obo. Some people
have anatomy that can't fist deep. And by prioritizing and
celebrating the very, very advanced fisters, it becomes an issue
of like ableism and access almost like some bodies simply
can't do that. And if we make that desirable, then
people will feel like their bodies aren't desirable. And that's
(29:37):
not the kind of fisting scene that I want to
be part of that I participated.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
So ox, I would love to know what is in
your fisting kit, Like, oh, you have a go bag.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
Fisting kit will vary if I'm going as a top
or as a bottom. My fisting kit at the top
is pretty it's pretty minimal. I mean, there's not a
whole lot I need, so as a bottom usually bring toys.
I'm a big toy queen. I always make my own loob.
Everybody has a different kind of lube that they like,
(30:08):
and there's a battle among fisters about who has the
best formula. I have the best formula.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Are you willing to share? What is your concoction?
Speaker 5 (30:18):
You need a blender for good loob or I use
X lube and I mix Crisco into it. And when
I was in the US, I used to use it
was like a corn Huskers lotion. Used to be able
to get it at like feed in seed stores. It
was a kind of calming I know, right. It was
like this cheap hand lotion for guys who worked out
in the fields. And I used to mix a little
(30:39):
bit of corn huskers lotion into my concoction of jlube
and Crisco, and I would actually add a tiny little
dash of clove oil because clove is a natural anti inflammatory.
Mix it in a blender and it's perferfect.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So I'm curious. I think we've all seen like the
retro photos from like clubs in the meatpacking district with
like giant things of chris Like. It feels like Crisco
was sort of the fisting lube of the past. It's
the throwback, it's the nostalgia factor. I'm shocked to hear
that it is still used, and I'm curious, what's sort
of the difference between something like Crisco and then are
(31:13):
like alphabet of lubes that we have now like klube,
jlube x lube.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Well, Crisco doesn't have to be mixed, so that's the thing. Crisco.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
You just open it up and go the letter lubes
like klube X lube, jlube, they start off as a
powder and when you add water you turn them into lubes.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
You have to make them.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
There's drawbacks to both. Crisco stains everything. Crisco's not toy
friendly to every kind of toy, whereas the water based ones,
the ones that you mix. The powder ones are toy
friendly across the board. You can use them with any
kind of toy, silicone not silicone, whatever. And people like
the fact that the powder based fisting lubes are customizable,
so if you add more water, they become more runny,
(31:57):
more viscous. I like my loub to be really kind
of thick and goofy, which means I increase the ratio
of powder to water. But you can play with it,
right you kind of find what you like your own
mixture to be. But with the powder ones, jlube is
highly highly slippery. Excellute is highly slippery. I mean people
(32:19):
fall all the time from this stuff. Whereas Crisco has
a little bit more give, more grit, more texture. You're
not completely incapacitated if you're covered in it. You just
kind of slimy with the mixing loubs and you can't
like do anything with your hands until it's off.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
It is kind of intense, and trying to wash it
off is like a process.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Absolute nightmare.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I mean, somebody watching this is gonna is gonna use
one of these lubes and they're gonna be scrubbing for
forty five minutes trying to get the shit off them.
And so I want to tell them right now the
secret is salt. Yeah, Salt breaks down the bond of
most powder loubes with the water and it makes it
run off. So get like a couple things of like
cheap grocery store or salt that has like the thing
(33:01):
you can really pour it and just cover your hands
in salt, and never share loub because that, that too
is a good health rule. Yes, never share lube. I
want to broadcast that to everybody. Never share lube. It's
not safe.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, because some folks put kims in theirs and they
don't tell you that they put kyms in there. So
if you're like using your fisting and they're like all
of a sudden, you're like, oh, that's that's an interesting sensation.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
See, yeah, that's spicy. Is there like a sanitation reason
as well? Like everyone's just like dipping their hands in, Like,
what's the primary reason you should not be sharing lube?
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Well, so think about it.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
If there's like a central tub and your hand is
inside someone's rectum and it's dipping back into the same
vat that hands and other people's rectums have been inside,
it's just an easy formula for infection and easily formula
for spreading gut bacteria. And that's how you walk home
from a fisting event with like H colorI and E.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Coli. Yeah, don't share loube.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
How should people find the sea insane partners to fists?
Speaker 5 (34:01):
Oh my god, I think that's a really hard question
across all of gay sex, because it doesn't matter if
you're into fisting or anything else. The tools that we
have available to meet sex partners are the same. We
all have in person events and we have the Internet. Yeah,
if anything, I would say that people who are willing
to have a dialogue beforehand and talk about limits and
boundaries and experience is a good way to sort of
(34:23):
filter out the people who you shouldn't play with. One
common thing that I did when I was just getting
started is I would meet a fist top and I
would ask him, oh, well, what kind of loob do
you like? And if he was just like, oh, you know,
regular loob, I'd be like, I don't know, I don't think.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
This is a matter yeah morning, well yeah really, but seriously,
like you do have to kind of use stuff like that.
And then if somebody was like, oh well I have
my special formula, I'm like, all right, good, you know
what you're doing. Somebody has that level of knowledge. It's
not a guarantee that they're going to be a good
fisting partner, but it does show that they know at
least a little bit about websisting entails.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, earlier we were talking about some of the potential
risks of harm and stuff that folks should look out for.
But I'm curious about duration. Is there a time period
where you could be fisting for too long? Like is
there sort of an ideal window where you're like, all right,
we should take a break, or we shouldn't go longer
than like X amount of time.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
You know, I really like a long session as long
as you do frequent breaks. I think there's no problem
doing a long session. I mean, I've I mean doing
fulsome Berlin, I'm fisting like most days in a row,
you know, for four or five days, and so No,
I don't know if I think that there's an objective limit.
That said, when you add substances to the mix, then
(35:40):
it's harder to read that limit. I had my own
history with drugs that thankfully is really healthy now, at
one point it was not.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
And the only times that I have ever.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Felt like I pushed it too far that I know
that I skirted injury because of endurance, because of how
long I was fisting was on substances that eliminated my
ability to read my own body. Like one time I
was in Fire Island Pines and I did a marathon,
druggy fisting session with the guy who had huge hands,
(36:10):
and I overdid it and I bruised my rectum and
I had painful poops and I had to go back
to the hospital in New York and the doctor was like,
you're fine, You're just bruised and really sore. Like it
was a really really good gay doctor, and I told
him everything. I told him exactly what I did, and
he was like, this was a warning, Like you're not injured,
(36:30):
but that's because you stopped when you stopped, and if
you had kept going, you probably would.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Have been injured.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
And so that comes from keems, not from fisting. Like
if I had been sober, I would have recognized that
I was starting to get sore, because you can feel
in an ass when someone's starting to heat up, when
someone's starting to wear out, Like when I'm fisting a bottom,
even before he's aware that he's getting a little sore
and tired, I can actually feel it. The tissue gets
(36:57):
warm and inflamed, and if you're fisting some much, you
can feel that inflammation happened. And then normally as a top,
I'll say, all right, I think it's time to take
a pause.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, can we talk a little bit about aftercare.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
I take a depository and that kind of keeps it
like not rollen and painful. Like fisting does cause damage,
It does cause inflammation, It does cause pain. Post fisting,
kind of look for care, look for any damage, and
not go too hard anymore. I mean, like, I know
guys who will do a lot of heavy toy play
(37:31):
after after a fisting session. I wouldn't do a heavy
play after a fisting session.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
No, that sounds that sounds crazy.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah it's not. Yeah, it's not the best.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
So this is cruising confessions. I would love to hear
some of your wild cruising confessions, whether it be from fisting,
sex work or your life in Berlin.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
My most beautiful fisting experience as the top was when
I was in sex work in New York. I had
this regular client. He was significantly older, and he lived
in this beautiful apartment and everything in his apartment was
cream colored. It was all milky and cream and silk.
He was a really advanced fist bottom. I mean, we
talked about prolapses earlier, but he could push out his
(38:12):
prolapse pretty significantly, and when it happened, I told him
I'm sorry, but this is such a design triumph because
this is the only color in this room, is this
one little spot of red. And I'm like, you've almost orchestrated.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
This as like he absolutely did.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
That is literally the pop of color literally popped and
I was like, oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
But he was.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
He was a client that I had a lot of
really beautiful conversations with, and he was the old guard.
He lost everybody he lived through the eighties. He was
an AIDS activist. He was so small that I could
literally cradle him in my arms and like rock him
with my forearm and he just kind of held onto
my neck, and I felt like I was caring for
(38:59):
one of our elders in a way that felt meaningful
and beautiful. And he was lonely and he wanted just
some company. He wanted just some fisting every now and then.
But it evolved into a really intimate and loving relationship.
It was beautiful, really really lovely person. But that's not
the hottest thing I've ever done. The problem is, like
(39:19):
cruising confessions, fisting is it something that you kind of
cruise to do. Fisting is like a date that you
schedule and you prepare your home space for it. I
tend to not do it in public. Fisting for me
is now like a one on one experience, and so
it's not that wild. I don't have any like wild
fisting stories because fisting is like my intimate sex. Whereas
I can go to black party and have sex with
(39:40):
like fifty people and that's that's fun. That's great, but
that's not You shouldn't fist at black party. What was
the black party that they did. It was the last
one they did in Manhattan and everybody hated it. It
was called Dark Matter. Do you remember that one? There
was this really hot muscle fisting couple who every fister
in New York was after and was really into, and
they were fist thing on the dance floor and they
(40:01):
were really putting on a show and they were fisting
like right in front of everyone on the dance floor,
and then they ran off the dance floor really quickly
because the guy had like we saw like a line
of shit like going down the dance floor, and so
I mean, he wasn't fully ready, and like it happens,
It's gonna happen to everybody. But that's why you don't
(40:22):
do it on a dance floor, correct, in front of
New York ravers.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Like, yeah, it's just the way the girls are bumping
into each other on the dance floor. People are never
aware of their space sometimes, so I'm like, if your
hands are inside somebody and you've got like millimeters of leeway,
I'm not trying to get you know what I mean.
I'm a clumsy girl. I don't want another clumsy girl
that could not be me. Yeah, yeah, that's wild. Well, Alex,
(40:47):
we have almost reached the end of our interview, but
there's so much more we want to know, so we
are going to ask you some rapid fire questions.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
If you're down, is that all right?
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Oh my god? Yeah sure, Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I know fisting takes a lot of preparation. You got
to get the blender out, you got to mix your
proprietary thing. But we're gonna make a quick and dirty.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Now, if that's all right? All right, describe your snippy's
profile pick.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Honestly, I take really stupid pick, so it's probably and
I cannot take a shirtless pick without sticking my tongue out,
so I probably look like like Miley Cyrus when she
was like always sticking out her tongue.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
All right, describe the last person you fucked in three.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Words, Harry, toxic and precious? Was it me? Was that?
Speaker 6 (41:31):
Me?
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Did? I? Was?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I in Berlin?
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (41:36):
All right?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
So if you're meeting somebody for a fisting session, do
you prefer their place, your place, or a third place?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Only their place? Almost exclusively their place?
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
What is your most controversial take related to sex and
queer life?
Speaker 5 (41:49):
If I could tell one thing to people who are
just getting started sexually, the queer community places an outsized
value on sex, and I would just say it is important. Sexism,
it's great. I've spent my entire life being very sex
positive and very slutty, and I would want everyone to
do the same. But after you have a lot of sex,
you'll learn that you know, it's great. It's a fun
(42:11):
way to spend a Saturday night, But it's not as
important as I think a lot of us go through
our lives believing it is. I would still want everyone
to find sexual confidence, but you don't have to constantly
climb or build or do more and more and more.
It's okay to just kind of coast. I would never
want anybody to feel, especially with fisting. I would never
want anyone to feel like they have to reach a
(42:33):
certain level in order to think that beyond that level
it's great. There is no magical level at which fisting
or any kind of sex is just great. It's always
just sex.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yeah, I can relate to that.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That sounds like a great way to end our episode. Yeah, Alex,
this has been a really incredible conversation. But before we
let you go, where can folks find your work? And
what's next on the horizon for you?
Speaker 5 (43:00):
There is a second book coming, but the first book
is available whoever books are sold, and you can follow
me on all the social media platforms. The handle is
bad Alex Cheeves And if anybody's interested in Berlin nightlife,
follow Hinterhouse Magazine. I'm the editor of a magazine here
and it's a fun magazine to check out.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
All right, well, we've heard Alex's wild cruising confessions, but
in our final act we're going to hear an actual
cruising confession from one of you. Will it's a past
one of Alex's stories. I highly doubt it, but let's
stick around and see. Ye.
Speaker 6 (43:35):
Hey, Sniffy's my cruising confession recently happened at a park
in Brooklyn. So I was walking my dog up on
the hill. I see these two guys pretty close to
one another. They look sexy from afar, so we go
check it out. As we're walking up the hill, it
starts drizzling and there's a tree. So my dog goes
and takes some shelter, and I get closer to these
(43:57):
guys and even sexy, you're up close and they are
up to no good. And so I decided to take
shelter with these guys, and you know, we start making
out and doing hand stuff and doing mouth stuff and yeah,
as we're blowing one another and you know, getting more
into it, it starts raining more, more downpour. We're absolutely drenched.
(44:21):
And this continues on until the first guy comes and
then I come, and then the guy at our knees
just goes, man, you too are like a waterfall. And
after that, I wipe the come away and I grabbed
my dog and we walked down the hill and the
sun comes out and I am feeling excellent. Thank you
(44:46):
for the load sniffies.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I was like, where was the dog? We lost track
of the dog. The dog, What was the dog doing
in the rain?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It's just like hanging out. Just walk. Yeah, I am
not a fan of hooking up in the rain.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
I'm from Florida.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
We don't fuck around with around the rain. I don't know.
I guess I gotta take more walks and parks. I'm
not I'll be the dog.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
You can walk me and then well, yeah, we'll use
it as.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
A pretty does a dream come true?
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Sorry, my dog was taking shelter right next to where
you were doing hands stuff things gave people doing fur
the dogs a lovely cruising confession and thank you for sharing.
If you'd like to hear your own cruising confession on
an upcoming episode of this podcast, you can always call
our Cruising Confessions hotline at three zero two two one
nine three eight nine eight. Please call in and share.
(45:39):
I love listening to these. It's my favorite part of
the show. So now that we're at the end of
the episode, I have to ask. The beginning, you sort
of mentioned that you were kind of sure that like,
fisting isn't for you. Has that changed based on our
conversation today?
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Yeah, So there was a.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Moment where Alex was like, I'm lactose intolerant, I can
still fist and I was like, wow, representation, That's what
I needed to see. Right when we got to the
prolapse as part and some of the dangers, and I
understand all sex is a calculated risk, right, We all
take calculated risks in in search.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Of pleasure living in New York.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Absolutely, yeah, I take a calculated risk going to get groceries,
all right, So like totally understand that. But when we
did get to the injuries and prolapse part, I was like,
I think my ratio of not being interested when from
ninety nine to one hundred, Okay, me and my vowels,
you know, we've got an interesting relationship. I understand they're
they're a very uneasy girl. Yeah, And so I just
(46:30):
I don't know if fisting bottoming is for me, if
that will ever be for me.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
No, I was wondering more.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
I knew you would never be a fisting bottom, but
I was, well, what.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Gave it away so much?
Speaker 3 (46:43):
But I'm wondering if you were more interested in exploring
fisting as a top.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
I yeah, maybe it's not something I'm seeking out, But
you know, if you're if you're served a delicious plate,
why would you not How are you going to say no,
you got to take a bite. Yeah, take one bite
and then dip it in the case. That's not a metaphor.
I don't know why that came up in my head.
It's not that's not any sort of new slang.
Speaker 6 (47:05):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Very grateful to Alex. We're making the call the Away
from Berlin as well to take us through our very
first fisting episode. I'm kind of surprised it took us
until season three. I've been dying to dive in. I
couldn't think of anyone to do it better with than
Alex Chevez. And again a reminder. His memoir is titled
My Love Is a Beast Confessions. All right, we'll see
you all next time. Safe fisting?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Is that what we all say?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Safe fisting? Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is directed by Adam Barron,
produced by A. Menda Kauper and Cameron Femino, and executive
produced by Eli Martin.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Cruising Confessions is presented by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
cruising platform. We're gay by curious people ready to cruise.
Check out the map at snippies dot com and Paul
Snifchees at Snippy's app.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Cruisers are a community do your part in keeping us safe.
Learn more about protecting your sexual health at healthy sexuals
dot com.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Put Jo, put put jo, put put yo, put
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer
discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Put jo pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
Put your pussy up, Put put your pussy up.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. I'm Gabelon Sadez and.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm christotison Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime world
of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We talk to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
practical advice that you can use at home.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Joy, Put Joe, pussy, put Joe, put put your put,
put your put.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Today, we're going deep, elbow deep, right beyond the knuckle,
So whip out the X lube and get the puppy pads.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Ready because this episode is all about fisting. Game.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
That was a very loaded transition. I'm really excited to hear,
what's your experience with fisting? Not much. I'll tell you
that I've tried it. I have told I am an
ideal size for fisting. Okay, people look at my height
and they're like, would you fist me? And I'm like,
ninety nine percent of the time, the answer is no,
(01:23):
It personally does very little for me. I'm not that
interested in it. I did you still Look up with
this guy when I first moved to New York and
he was like, Hey, I want to ask you something.
He was like, super shy about it, but he wanted
me to fist him, and I didn't know what that
entailed at all. Yeah, So he sent me home with homework.
He gave me a book on fisting, and he was like,
read this and if you think you'd be interested in
(01:43):
doing it to me, come back and we can do it.
I was like, all right, And I read the book
and I learned a lot of things that would have
terrified me if I'd gone into fisting. So there's like
a whole section in the book that talked about what
happens once you go beyond the knuckle uh huh, that
like the body just kind of sucks.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
The rest of your army.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
That is correct, and I'm like, that is exactly what happened,
and it is very unsettling.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
It is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It felt like something out of alien, you know what
I mean. It was like and it made a sound.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, it was wild.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So again, I'm really glad that I read up before
doing that. I think I did it more because I
was into him, but it felt less for me. Okay,
it felt very much for him. Wow, Okay, we are
so different. Yeah, because your eyes are telling me that
you have a story you did definitely like to share.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah. I mean I fisted someone for the first time
when I was sixteen.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I didn't even know how anal sex worked at sixteen.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
No, I entered like a craigsist ad and he like
asked me if I would be into it, and I
did not know what he was talking about, and he said,
don't worry, I'll show you. And like I showed up
and there was, you know, a man and a container
of crisco where old school, old school. Yeah, and that
sort of started me on my fist and journey and
I've been doing it ever since. So was that a
positive experience? I mean, you were clearly too.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Young to be doing that, but like, was it a yeah?
I mean yes, yes, well well yes yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
But I I love it. I think it's one of
the like most intimate acts you can engage with sexually.
I truly enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Is this like the regular part of your sexual practice
or is it like depending on the partner?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Chris, you contain multitudes. I do multitude, But fair, you're
the fister. I'm the fister, okay, top I see and
I have massive hands.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah you do. I know.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I feel like I'm the beginning. I'm like the training
dildo and you're the like literally not for the novice. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
If you've listened to our show for the past two seasons,
you've heard us deep dive on lots of kings and fetishes,
from puppy play to chastity to wrestling.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
But fisting seems to be one of the biggest fetishes
in the queer community, and as years go by, it
just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
With fisting videos all over Gagewitter, Fitzfluencer's pushing prolapsed dildos,
and more and more young people getting into it. It's
almost like we're approaching fisting's total crossover from kink to
common practice.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
In this episode, we're going to talk to one of
our favorite sex writers, the incredible Alex Cheves, who first
gained a following as a sex writer dolling out advice
for The Advocate. In twenty twenty one, he published his
debut memoir, My Love Is a Beast Confessions, where he
talks with a raw, poetic honesty about his sexual awakenings, fisting, kink,
sex work, HIV, and so much more.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Please welcome to Snippy's Cruising Confessions. Alex Chevez.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Alex welcome, Thank you for being here, Thank you for
having me, Thank you so much for calling in. For
listeners who don't know, Alex is calling in from Berlin,
the kinky sex capital of Europe.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
In the sex capital of the world.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I would say, so this might not be the case
in Germany, given that you are the kinky sex capital
of the world. Correct, But I feel like I have seen,
at least anecdotally, in the US a lot more people
talking about fisting. Do you think fisting is having a
moment right now?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Is she the it girl?
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Fisting? Is the it girl? It?
Speaker 5 (05:00):
Fisters talk about fisting Twitter It is the phenomenon in
the fisting world, and I think it's been the it
girl for a little bit now. If anything, I feel
like we're on our way out of fisting Twitter. But fisting,
I think in a few years is going to be
a whole generation of fisters who met each other through
Twitter because for whatever reason, it was one of those
lanes of sex content on Twitter that just really created
(05:23):
a tight community. Were not that type, but I'm just exploded.
It was one of those kinks that really took off
in the era of social media.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
It is interesting that you mentioned Twitter because I feel
like that site was one of the few social media
sites that did not censor sexual content. And even on
sites like OnlyFans, I believe things like fisting are still
not allowed to be distributed or shown platforms.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
That's why I got kicked off of Only Fans way.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
Yeah, I put fisting videos on there and I didn't
know the rules, and they like, sorry, you can't do this.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Do they have customer service? Can you call it and
be like, my fisting videos are taken down?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:01):
So a lot goes into shaping what you're into. Are
there any parts of your life that made you gravitating
towards fisting.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
Yeah, it's not exciting. I found fisting the way a
lot of people did my age is through porn. And crucially,
for a long time, fisting lived in the avenue of
things that I was never interested in actually doing. And
I think a lot of people have those things, right,
You have these kinks that you might watch, but are
things that you're never really interested in actually living out.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
And for years, actually.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Fisting was always this like, oh, look at this cool
thing online, but I never wanted it to be part
of my life. I never once took the steps of
like training and finding a regular fisting playmate.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
It just kind of happened.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
And then once that happened, I was like, oh, okay,
now I'm into fisting, Like, now I'm real I do it.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
And what was it about that experience that made you
jump headfirst into it?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
That first experience was.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It fulsome It was with one of these amazing dumbs
that just I never once said I was into fisting.
I never once expressed interest. But after a nice long session,
he just knew. He just knew when to put loub
on his hand and slide it in, and it was
amazing how he could just tell and he could read
my body and it happened without any dialogue, any communication.
(07:12):
Now to clarify, that's not what I tell other people
to do, and that's not whatever to say, Like, that's
like I would tell everybody to, you know, communicate, talk
to somebody, train, carefully, use toys. Like I don't think
that the way that I got into fisting is necessarily
a way that I would prescribe other people to get
into fisting.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Just to put that out there, Yeah, I mean that
seems kind of as a person who's like intofisting, like
that feels I don't want to say crazy, but like
I don't know, you're just sort of like it just
sort of happened one day, you know. But I do understand,
like as a fitting top, Like do understand being able
to read someone's body and knowing when they're ready for it,
(07:51):
because the body will tell you.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
The body will tell you yeah, and my body was
just like read, let's go.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Was it kind of tricky for you to get into
the rhythm of it at first?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
No, I found it very difficult. And I think a
lot of first time fisters run into this issue where
I have my first experience it's a ton of fun.
I love it, I want to do it again. And then,
for the first time ever, I have to start communicating
this to potential partners. And it was actually quite difficult
from that point on because there seemed to be a
strange resistance to playing with a beginner, and I talk
(08:24):
to a lot of beginners now and that seems to
still be the case, which is really unfortunate. And I
feel like sometimes fisting Twitter and fisting media exacerbates this
problem that we as a community tend to kind of
prioritize very advanced bodies and very advanced tolls, and we
don't necessarily make enough space for the beginners.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I mean, I think, as a fisting top who like
we want, I have really big hands, and so beginners
aren't always my favorite because the time commitment portion of
it I don't always have. And it's not because I'm
not interested in helping someone learn and grow. It's just
because it's like I've only got two hours on a Wednesday.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
There actually are guys out there who really erotically enjoy
the process of training and working somebody open, and that's
the dream, right, Like, if you're a beginner, you kind
of want to find these guys that like opening a
new butt is kind of their fetish. So I would
tell everybody to maybe make that your focus in the beginning,
because yeah, I've trained beginner bottoms too, and they're always like,
I'm gonna come over on Tuesday and I'm gonna take
(09:27):
my first fist today and I'm like, Babe, I don't
know how to tell you this, but it's not gonna
happen the first time we try it. It's not gonna
happen the first three times we try it. And that
is that is a huge commitment. That's a big time commitment. Yeah,
I'm in New Yorker, I've got things to do.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, she's a busy girl.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
She's a busy girl.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
She's only got time for fingers today.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Sorry.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
So then what does that kind of entail? What should
people expect if they're kind of starting out.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
I think most people go to toys, and that's my
advice to most people training or just starting out. One
thing I commonly tell people is that you don't advance
as fister with fists. You advance through toy play and
solo sessions, because it's really about learning your own body
and how something just feels up there. It sounds very unsexy,
(10:10):
but you do have to kind of treat it like
a gym membership, like once a week, I'm gonna sit
on this butt plug and go really slow and use
lots of lube.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
And make it sort of my solo time.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
And you do kind of have to keep a schedule,
like if you're really seriously training, some people say you
should be doing some ass play once a week, some
people say it a couple times a week. I would
say at least every two weeks. You're not necessarily fisting
with other people every time. In fact, most of those
times should be solo and with yourself, And that's what
I recommend people do.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
That's what I did.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Did you have a mentor to sort of help you
along in this process?
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Actually, I just met fisting friends fisting sisters. Yes, yeah,
and we're still really close because of it. Like, if
you're starting off as a fist bottom, your best friends
are other fist bottoms who can tell you toy recommendations
and their favorite lube. And yeah, it's like little things
like that that you don't really think about that you
need other bottoms to coach you through.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Now We've talked a bit about fisting bottoms, but I'm
wondering if you have any advice for first time fisting tops.
I feel like the conception for a lot of fisting
tops is like, oh, well, you just throw some glub
on your hand and like slowly slide in and you're good. Right, Like,
what do fisting tops need to know and what do
they need to be bringing to the table.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
The saying in the fisting community is the best tops
or verse guys or you know, former bottoms. I've known
some tops that are very, very naturally skilled tops that
have never taken a fist or aren't interested in taking
a fist themselves and not interested in bottoming, but they
are rarer. I think every top could benefit from at
least trying to bottom a little bit, because otherwise you
(11:43):
don't really know where you're going and how it feels.
And I became a better top after I had been
fisting for years, and now I'm very very verse, and
I fist top just as much as fist bottom. Now,
if you're just starting off and you're not interested in bottoming,
I'd say learn from a very experienced fist botto and
ask questions and ask what feels good and it's okay
to do kind of a clinical training session. I've done
(12:07):
that with beginner tops sore. I've been like, look, this
isn't going to be sexy. This might not be the
hottest session you ever have, but like, I'm going to
go through the steps and be like, here's how you
mix the lube, here's how you lay down blankets, and
then I'll literally like do a diagram of my hand
and I'll be like, okay, you start this way, and
then it's just stop, go, stop, go, kind of traffic
light telling him when to push forward, when to pull back.
(12:29):
And it's not a sexy session, but it is how
you train somebody to top. And I think every aspiring
fistop needs a few sessions like that.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So what feels good about fisting? In your own words?
Speaker 5 (12:42):
So, I can't explain the pleasure behind it except that
it's the best orgasm I can feel. It's the greatest
physical pleasure I can experience.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
And I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Now there is something about watching someone get fisted and.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
You're getting lost in the visual Right now now I am.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
I'm thinking about the last time I fisted behind and
I see it with you. It was truly magical and
just watching that look on their face and like the
pleasure that their body is receiving, it is like top tier.
It's magic.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
We You can also have an anal orgasm, right, Yes,
I think I don't know if I've ever ejaculated from fisting,
but I've had like a full body shaking anal orgasm.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, that's the whole New world.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Orgasms are kind of the best thing out there. Honestly,
They're really because you can have like multiple of them,
you can have back to back, and like it took
me a long time to experience one.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
And actually the first time I had an anal orgasm
was at a big group fisting party where they were
like fifteen slings set up and I swear it sounded
like somebody was giving birth to a cow. I mean
I just yelled for minutes, like just shouted.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
That was it. It was great.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Okay, So not to harsh the vibe in the room,
not to pull out my whole fist at once, but
I'm curious. I do want to know about some of
the risks involved with fisting. I know that some of
them are highly stigmatized and exaggerated, but I know that
some are practical concerns that we have to think about.
What are some health and safety concerns that you'd encourage
people to think about.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Several I mean, I've been fisting for well over a decade,
and I've been involved in the fisting scene, and i
know multiple friends that have been in the emergency room
that have had surgery, that have had such severe injuries
that they will never be able to fist to the
same extent that they did before. If you get injured,
you can get permanent scar tissue inside your rectum, and
(14:39):
scar tissue doesn't stretch, so you can stop even your
regular like not even fisting, but just anal sex life
for the rest of your life. So it is a
high risk sex sport. But you can go too fast
in the very beginning and push it, and because you're tight,
you're going to get hurt or when you're going from
like punches to like elbow, you know, and there's a
(14:59):
lot of fists life between those two places, and it's
always in those two spots very beginning or pretty advanced
that people seem to get pretty badly hurt. So people
do need to think about gloves is a way to
moderate risk and actually just going really slow and listening
to your body and obviously using proper loube. But the
(15:20):
biggest predicator of injury potential infesting is fisting on kims,
on substances that override your own ability to read pain
and read your own bodies limits. And everybody I know
who's gotten hurt and fisting has done so high. They
were pushing it past their own limit and they weren't
listening to their body, and that's how you get hurt.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, no, thank you for mentioning the kims and fisting,
because I think as a sober person, it took me
a long time to get back into fisting sober. It
took a lot of conversations with people who do it,
and just like being able to understand that, like fisting
can happen without kims, and it can happen without poppers.
Like I know people who take doubles without poppers, which
(16:02):
is mind boggling to me, but they exist.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Sorry, I used to term doubles. Is that exactly what
it sounds like?
Speaker 6 (16:09):
It?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (16:12):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Do you mean two heads? Double?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Doubles are my favorite thing?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Interesting, You guys should form a doubles team and then
we'll go bowling.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
It'll be great.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So I kind of wanted to address another misnomer. I
think for a lot of folks, there's this idea that
fisting quote unquote ruins other forms of sex, that like,
once you've found fisting, you never want to do anything else.
So I'm curious what would you say to folks that
have that concern.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
I have been fisting for well over ten years, and
I love other kinds of sex, and I have a
lot of other kinds of sex. I don't know any
fisters who only fist. I don't know a single fister
who like that's it.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I mean, I do have a friend who.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Always have a friend. If there's anybody that has a
friend and it's Chris.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
She does have other sacks, but she's less likely to
prioritize that over a fisting appointment totally.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Like I went on a date recently with this guy
and he wasn't into fisting, and we had a couple
of dates and he was like, so are you going
back and I'm gonna fucket your place? And I was like,
I'm gonna be honest with you, dude. If I'm douching tonight,
it's for fisting and you're not into fisting, so sometimes
sometimes yeah, Like if you're gonna put in the work
of cleaning out, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And that's the way it comes down to. He's like,
if I'm douchinge, then I'm going to get a fist.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
What does douching and preparation for fisting look like compared
to getting fucked by a dick.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
I don't know if there's a single monolithic answer to that.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Because some guys, these mysterious creatures out there, have these
magical golden rectums that just work after one poop and
they're spotless and they're fine. They tend to be vegan,
and some people, like I fully admit here that I'm
one of the people that takes a little bit longer,
or my body's a little bit more funky. I have
(18:02):
lactose in tolerance, and so I have to be much
more careful with what I eat beforehand, and so my
duching regimen is going to be completely different. I know
guys who spend twenty minutes and they're fine, they can
get fisted all night. And I know guys who spend
two hours getting ready and they're like, okay. I think
I'm like mostly okay, and it all depends on your piping,
your body, your system, but duching's not good for you,
and I would tell most people to try and minimize
(18:24):
the duching process as much as you can, especially since I.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Came to Europe.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
I'm actually one of those people that I'm completely comfortable
with just giving it a shot. If it's just a dick,
I'll be like, well, let's just try it and if not,
we can wash up after, Whereas I would never do
that with fisting. I would never be like, let's just
give it a shot and see.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
How it goes. Like No, with fisting, I'm gonna imagine.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Three hours later, Yeah, yeah, What have you learned about
yourself through fisting?
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Actually, I've learned a lot about my gender, or the
idea of gender, because when I first came out, I
was like hard gay, like strictly gay.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I felt very very.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Sis and I went through a whole gender journey and
I still feel very sis gender. But fisting gave me
this space to sort of challenge that, and it certainly
challenged my sexual orientation. And thanks to fisting, I realized
I'm not strictly gay. I will have sex with any
person of any gender. I have sex with men, women, transmn,
trans women, and the great thing about fisting is that
(19:23):
gender wise, it's very equalizing. I've met so many amazing
fist toop trans men who they're like, my hands are
my dick, and they feel so empowered by fisting because
everybody has hands in a butthole, so gender really becomes
irrelevant in fisting. We all have the same parts, and
anybody can be a top and anybody can be a
bott of. Anybody can be dominant, anybody can be subby.
(19:45):
I've never had a very strong connection to my dick.
I'm not a big dick guy. And there was a
moment a few years ago in my fisting journey where
I was like, oh my god, what does that mean?
Am I broken? Shouldn't I have a strong connection to
my dick? Does that mean that I'm not cisgendered? Should
I start questioning this? And in the end I came
to the understanding that I'm very cis gender. But I'm
grateful that fisting gave me a space to ask those questions.
(20:09):
You know, when I was like hard fist bottoming a lot,
I felt very connected to feminine energy, especially when I
started adding like laingerie and stuff like that. And I
find that that's true with a lot of fisters. We
tend to be really comfortable with gender fluidity, with non
traditional gender presentation because fisting as a culture renders gender
kind of mood. We all have the same parts, we
(20:30):
all have the same bodies.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
I mean, like one time I was.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
At Berkheim and I was like standing in a corner,
like in my little red Jox trap and a tiny,
petite Cis woman came up to me and like cruised
me hard, and she was like, hey, I see you're
wearing a red Jox trap. Does that mean you're into fisting?
And I was like yes, and she was like cool,
I have gloves and I have lube. I'm a fist top.
(20:55):
And I was like fuck yeah. And in that moment
I liked her energy and I was like, oh, you're
a domb like you're alpha energy, and she was like tiny,
you know so much short. I'm like to her, I'm
a relatively big guy. And I swear she could have
led me around that club on a leash, like she
was complete dumb energy. And in that moment I became
(21:15):
complete sub energy. And it was beautiful because we were
both into fisting, and so we spoke the same language,
and so bodies gender. It all felt so irrelevant. We connected,
We linked, and she was this amazing fist top and
I was this quivering little fist bottom and it was great.
It was so hot and connections like that happened in fisting.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
This feels like a great place to take a break.
So when we come back, we're going to be asking
Alex for more tips and tricks for first time fisters
and the fist curious.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Stay tuned, Welcome back. We're here with Alex Cheves, writer
and expert fister, and in this act we're going to
be pumping Alex for more practical advice that you can
use the blossom into the fullest fister you can be.
So in your book you talk about being HIV positive
(22:05):
and I'm wondering, how does that relate to your fisting practice.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Well, I only started fisting after I was positive, so
I don't know. I've been positive since before prep, so
I still remember like dating before anybody knew about PREP
and how awful it was. But actually, interestingly enough, when
I first tested positive, and I was in my junior
year in college, I had a really progressive, good doctor,
(22:29):
and at that time it took a long time to
get on medication. I would have to wait months before
I got my first meds. And so he was like,
you know, there are safer sex practices that don't involve
fluid transmission, and fisting is one of them, So if
you want to try that, And in that moment, I
was like, I would never.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
And here we are, and here we are playing doubles.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, has PREP changed the fisting scene at all for you?
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I don't know if PREP changed fisting for me, but
PREP profoundly changed dating for me.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
I actually tested positive the year that PREP was approved
as a drug, but it seemed to take about two
years at least in my memory, for it to become
part of the gay ethos. And for those two years,
the minute I told somebody that I was positive, I
got blocked on every platform and every app. But the
fear in the stigma was much higher, and PREP profoundly
(23:25):
changed life for me, and I think for most HIV
positive people, because suddenly negative people could protect themselves and
so they weren't as powerless. That certainly empowered people who
are HIV negative, but empower people who are HIV positive too,
because it made the stakes of having sex with someone
a little bit lighter, a little bit more easy.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah, we've talked a little bit about like Cynthia Slater
and some fisting trailblazers throughout history on the podcast. But
I'm curious, what's your sense of fisting as a historical practice.
You know, we read back and it seems like it
was quite popular, especially in the Bay Area in the seventies.
So what is you sense of how like fisting has
evolved throughout the years or sort of its historical context
(24:05):
within our community.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
I mean, we know that fisting has been around, like
I mean in versions of the kamasuture, there's inserting a
hand into a into an orifice, but we're doing a
lot more than that now.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Shoulder deep, shoulders, yeah, hands coming out of my mouth. Yeah,
that's the point. I love your ambition. I love you
what a trendsetter.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
I got really lucky in the fact that one of
my first regular playmates was this very experienced had been
fisting for forty years, Like he was fisting at the
underground fisting clubs in San Francisco back in the mid seventies,
and so he'd been fisting for most of his life
by that point, and so he really was a great
partner to learn from and train for and trained with. Actually,
(24:48):
one time I just asked him what suddenly made us
start doing this? And he was very blunt. He said,
when synthetic recreational drugs became widely available in the American
public and ammal nitrates came out, he was like, fisting
did take off. The intensity and the extreme ways that
we play in festing do go hand in hand with
(25:09):
substances a lot more so than I would say that
another fetish scenes. And I think that only recently is
there a generation of queer men who are critiquing that
and re looking at fisting sober because we've lost so
many friends. We've had so many friends struggle with addiction issues,
and fisting is kind of a gateway drug.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Another thing that I think scares people away from fisting.
We got to talk about the prolapses. I think some
people really love seeing them and some people get really
freaked out when they see them. And I don't think
prolapses are like specific to fisting, but they seem to
go hand in hand if you will back in by
porn Day's people love to like show their low prolapse
and the calm leaking out at the end, and we
(25:48):
all clap and it would be amazing. Some of them
were bigger than others. I'm not here to I'm not
a size queen, right, but I'm wondering when it comes
to fisting, are there any risks to one's body in
terms of prolapses? And then how much of it is
just sort of like fear at seeing the inside of someone.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
I have to be very upfront and say, I'm not
a doctor and I'm not a medical professional, so I
don't know if I'm the most qualified to answer that.
I know a lot of people who do prolapse. Do
I personally believe that prolapsing is completely harmless? No, I don't,
But I don't think that fisting as a whole is
completely harmless. There is a certain point at which fisting
(26:24):
does become body modification. Yeah, in part because of fisting Twitter,
we're all competing and uploading our videos and trying to
outdo each other. And over the last ten years, I
think that the frequency at which I hear about my
friends getting injured has increased, and it seems that the
level of intensity at which people are fisting has dramatically increased,
(26:46):
and with that will come more risk because more intense
fisting means a higher likelihood of injury. Fisting hasn't been
like this mainstream ever. So I will be one of
the first generations to have grown up in a fisting
community that I want get bigger. By the time I'm
what forty to fifty, I'll have been fisting for like
most of my sexual development, and so will have all
(27:07):
my friends. And I'm really curious whether or not when
we're there, we'll look back and say, oh, that fisting
is dangerous. There very well could be long term health
effects and deleterious health effects that come as a result
of frequent fisting. We actually just don't know because in
the pre Internet days, fisting was niche and obscure and small,
and so we just didn't have the kind of data
(27:27):
on whether or not fisting was safe long term.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
And let's face it, in the.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
Eighties, everybody died, you know, and so we lost a
whole generation, and so we lose that data. Yeah, now
that people are living longer and queer men are living
full lives as fisters, we've yet to see if fisting
is safe long term.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I also feel like the age of people who are
interested in fisting is getting younger and younger. Right Like
when I started, obviously I was really young, but like
the only people that were into fisting were in their
forties and fifties and beyond. And now I know twenty
three year olds who are gape investors, you know, like advance.
I'm like, you're twenty three, what age should you start
(28:08):
this process?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know?
Speaker 5 (28:10):
When I was twenty one, I remember when I was
asking for somebody to train me or somebody to fist
with me, the most common response was concern. Advanced fisting
guys would be like, you're too young, you shouldn't be
doing this yet. Which is interesting because now I know
twenty one year olds that are like way past where
(28:30):
I am at, and that is fisting Twitter. That when
something's regularly available and at your fingertips online, more and
more people are going to do it at a younger
at younger age, and there is a competitive element to
fisting that really I think is the biggest danger in
the scene and the biggest problem in the scene is
the way it's talked about online is that it's a
goal oriented fetish. Everyone's like, I want to get to
(28:52):
doubles or I want to get to punches, or I
want to get past the elbow, and like they see
it now as this fetish of growth and development that
comes with like markers and tears, and I want to
get to that marker, and then I want to get
to that marker. And that is the wrong way to
view fisting, and that's how people get hurt. That's a
really dangerous way to you fisting, because the reality is
(29:13):
that some bodies can't fist to the obo. Some people
have anatomy that can't fist deep. And by prioritizing and
celebrating the very, very advanced fisters, it becomes an issue
of like ableism and access almost like some bodies simply
can't do that. And if we make that desirable, then
people will feel like their bodies aren't desirable. And that's
(29:37):
not the kind of fisting scene that I want to
be part of that I participated.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
So ox, I would love to know what is in
your fisting kit, Like, oh, you have a go bag.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
Fisting kit will vary if I'm going as a top
or as a bottom. My fisting kit at the top
is pretty it's pretty minimal. I mean, there's not a
whole lot I need, so as a bottom usually bring toys.
I'm a big toy queen. I always make my own loob.
Everybody has a different kind of lube that they like,
(30:08):
and there's a battle among fisters about who has the
best formula. I have the best formula.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Are you willing to share? What is your concoction?
Speaker 5 (30:18):
You need a blender for good loob or I use
X lube and I mix Crisco into it. And when
I was in the US, I used to use it
was like a corn Huskers lotion. Used to be able
to get it at like feed in seed stores. It
was a kind of calming I know, right. It was
like this cheap hand lotion for guys who worked out
in the fields. And I used to mix a little
(30:39):
bit of corn huskers lotion into my concoction of jlube
and Crisco, and I would actually add a tiny little
dash of clove oil because clove is a natural anti inflammatory.
Mix it in a blender and it's perferfect.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So I'm curious. I think we've all seen like the
retro photos from like clubs in the meatpacking district with
like giant things of chris Like. It feels like Crisco
was sort of the fisting lube of the past. It's
the throwback, it's the nostalgia factor. I'm shocked to hear
that it is still used, and I'm curious, what's sort
of the difference between something like Crisco and then are
(31:13):
like alphabet of lubes that we have now like klube,
jlube x lube.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Well, Crisco doesn't have to be mixed, so that's the thing. Crisco.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
You just open it up and go the letter lubes
like klube X lube, jlube, they start off as a
powder and when you add water you turn them into lubes.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
You have to make them.
Speaker 5 (31:35):
There's drawbacks to both. Crisco stains everything. Crisco's not toy
friendly to every kind of toy, whereas the water based ones,
the ones that you mix. The powder ones are toy
friendly across the board. You can use them with any
kind of toy, silicone not silicone, whatever. And people like
the fact that the powder based fisting lubes are customizable,
so if you add more water, they become more runny,
(31:57):
more viscous. I like my loub to be really kind
of thick and goofy, which means I increase the ratio
of powder to water. But you can play with it,
right you kind of find what you like your own
mixture to be. But with the powder ones, jlube is
highly highly slippery. Excellute is highly slippery. I mean people
(32:19):
fall all the time from this stuff. Whereas Crisco has
a little bit more give, more grit, more texture. You're
not completely incapacitated if you're covered in it. You just
kind of slimy with the mixing loubs and you can't
like do anything with your hands until it's off.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
It is kind of intense, and trying to wash it
off is like a process.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Absolute nightmare.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I mean, somebody watching this is gonna is gonna use
one of these lubes and they're gonna be scrubbing for
forty five minutes trying to get the shit off them.
And so I want to tell them right now the
secret is salt. Yeah, Salt breaks down the bond of
most powder loubes with the water and it makes it
run off. So get like a couple things of like
cheap grocery store or salt that has like the thing
(33:01):
you can really pour it and just cover your hands
in salt, and never share loub because that, that too
is a good health rule. Yes, never share lube. I
want to broadcast that to everybody. Never share lube. It's
not safe.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, because some folks put kims in theirs and they
don't tell you that they put kyms in there. So
if you're like using your fisting and they're like all
of a sudden, you're like, oh, that's that's an interesting sensation.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
See, yeah, that's spicy. Is there like a sanitation reason
as well? Like everyone's just like dipping their hands in, Like,
what's the primary reason you should not be sharing lube?
Speaker 4 (33:32):
Well, so think about it.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
If there's like a central tub and your hand is
inside someone's rectum and it's dipping back into the same
vat that hands and other people's rectums have been inside,
it's just an easy formula for infection and easily formula
for spreading gut bacteria. And that's how you walk home
from a fisting event with like H colorI and E.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Coli. Yeah, don't share loube.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
How should people find the sea insane partners to fists?
Speaker 5 (34:01):
Oh my god, I think that's a really hard question
across all of gay sex, because it doesn't matter if
you're into fisting or anything else. The tools that we
have available to meet sex partners are the same. We
all have in person events and we have the Internet. Yeah,
if anything, I would say that people who are willing
to have a dialogue beforehand and talk about limits and
boundaries and experience is a good way to sort of
(34:23):
filter out the people who you shouldn't play with. One
common thing that I did when I was just getting
started is I would meet a fist top and I
would ask him, oh, well, what kind of loob do
you like? And if he was just like, oh, you know,
regular loob, I'd be like, I don't know, I don't think.
Speaker 7 (34:40):
This is a matter yeah morning, well yeah really, but seriously,
like you do have to kind of use stuff like that.
And then if somebody was like, oh well I have
my special formula, I'm like, all right, good, you know
what you're doing. Somebody has that level of knowledge. It's
not a guarantee that they're going to be a good
fisting partner, but it does show that they know at
least a little bit about websisting entails.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, earlier we were talking about some of the potential
risks of harm and stuff that folks should look out for.
But I'm curious about duration. Is there a time period
where you could be fisting for too long? Like is
there sort of an ideal window where you're like, all right,
we should take a break, or we shouldn't go longer
than like X amount of time.
Speaker 5 (35:18):
You know, I really like a long session as long
as you do frequent breaks. I think there's no problem
doing a long session. I mean, I've I mean doing
fulsome Berlin, I'm fisting like most days in a row,
you know, for four or five days, and so No,
I don't know if I think that there's an objective limit.
That said, when you add substances to the mix, then
(35:40):
it's harder to read that limit. I had my own
history with drugs that thankfully is really healthy now, at
one point it was not.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
And the only times that I have ever.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Felt like I pushed it too far that I know
that I skirted injury because of endurance, because of how
long I was fisting was on substances that eliminated my
ability to read my own body. Like one time I
was in Fire Island Pines and I did a marathon,
druggy fisting session with the guy who had huge hands,
(36:10):
and I overdid it and I bruised my rectum and
I had painful poops and I had to go back
to the hospital in New York and the doctor was like,
you're fine, You're just bruised and really sore. Like it
was a really really good gay doctor, and I told
him everything. I told him exactly what I did, and
he was like, this was a warning, Like you're not injured,
(36:30):
but that's because you stopped when you stopped, and if
you had kept going, you probably would.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Have been injured.
Speaker 5 (36:36):
And so that comes from keems, not from fisting. Like
if I had been sober, I would have recognized that
I was starting to get sore, because you can feel
in an ass when someone's starting to heat up, when
someone's starting to wear out, Like when I'm fisting a bottom,
even before he's aware that he's getting a little sore
and tired, I can actually feel it. The tissue gets
(36:57):
warm and inflamed, and if you're fisting some much, you
can feel that inflammation happened. And then normally as a top,
I'll say, all right, I think it's time to take
a pause.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, can we talk a little bit about aftercare.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
I take a depository and that kind of keeps it
like not rollen and painful. Like fisting does cause damage,
It does cause inflammation, It does cause pain. Post fisting,
kind of look for care, look for any damage, and
not go too hard anymore. I mean, like, I know
guys who will do a lot of heavy toy play
(37:31):
after after a fisting session. I wouldn't do a heavy
play after a fisting session.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
No, that sounds that sounds crazy.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah it's not. Yeah, it's not the best.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
So this is cruising confessions. I would love to hear
some of your wild cruising confessions, whether it be from fisting,
sex work or your life in Berlin.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
My most beautiful fisting experience as the top was when
I was in sex work in New York. I had
this regular client. He was significantly older, and he lived
in this beautiful apartment and everything in his apartment was
cream colored. It was all milky and cream and silk.
He was a really advanced fist bottom. I mean, we
talked about prolapses earlier, but he could push out his
(38:12):
prolapse pretty significantly, and when it happened, I told him
I'm sorry, but this is such a design triumph because
this is the only color in this room, is this
one little spot of red. And I'm like, you've almost orchestrated.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
This as like he absolutely did.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
That is literally the pop of color literally popped and
I was like, oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
But he was.
Speaker 5 (38:39):
He was a client that I had a lot of
really beautiful conversations with, and he was the old guard.
He lost everybody he lived through the eighties. He was
an AIDS activist. He was so small that I could
literally cradle him in my arms and like rock him
with my forearm and he just kind of held onto
my neck, and I felt like I was caring for
(38:59):
one of our elders in a way that felt meaningful
and beautiful. And he was lonely and he wanted just
some company. He wanted just some fisting every now and then.
But it evolved into a really intimate and loving relationship.
It was beautiful, really really lovely person. But that's not
the hottest thing I've ever done. The problem is, like
(39:19):
cruising confessions, fisting is it something that you kind of
cruise to do. Fisting is like a date that you
schedule and you prepare your home space for it. I
tend to not do it in public. Fisting for me
is now like a one on one experience, and so
it's not that wild. I don't have any like wild
fisting stories because fisting is like my intimate sex. Whereas
I can go to black party and have sex with
(39:40):
like fifty people and that's that's fun. That's great, but
that's not You shouldn't fist at black party. What was
the black party that they did. It was the last
one they did in Manhattan and everybody hated it. It
was called Dark Matter. Do you remember that one? There
was this really hot muscle fisting couple who every fister
in New York was after and was really into, and
they were fist thing on the dance floor and they
(40:01):
were really putting on a show and they were fisting
like right in front of everyone on the dance floor,
and then they ran off the dance floor really quickly
because the guy had like we saw like a line
of shit like going down the dance floor, and so
I mean, he wasn't fully ready, and like it happens,
It's gonna happen to everybody. But that's why you don't
(40:22):
do it on a dance floor, correct, in front of
New York ravers.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Like, yeah, it's just the way the girls are bumping
into each other on the dance floor. People are never
aware of their space sometimes, so I'm like, if your
hands are inside somebody and you've got like millimeters of leeway,
I'm not trying to get you know what I mean.
I'm a clumsy girl. I don't want another clumsy girl
that could not be me. Yeah, yeah, that's wild. Well, Alex,
(40:47):
we have almost reached the end of our interview, but
there's so much more we want to know, so we
are going to ask you some rapid fire questions.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
If you're down, is that all right?
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Oh my god? Yeah sure, Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
I know fisting takes a lot of preparation. You got
to get the blender out, you got to mix your
proprietary thing. But we're gonna make a quick and dirty.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Now, if that's all right? All right, describe your snippy's
profile pick.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
Honestly, I take really stupid pick, so it's probably and
I cannot take a shirtless pick without sticking my tongue out,
so I probably look like like Miley Cyrus when she
was like always sticking out her tongue.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
All right, describe the last person you fucked in three.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Words, Harry, toxic and precious? Was it me? Was that?
Speaker 6 (41:31):
Me?
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Did? I? Was?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I in Berlin?
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Wow?
Speaker 6 (41:34):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (41:36):
All right?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
So if you're meeting somebody for a fisting session, do
you prefer their place, your place, or a third place?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Only their place? Almost exclusively their place?
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
What is your most controversial take related to sex and
queer life?
Speaker 5 (41:49):
If I could tell one thing to people who are
just getting started sexually, the queer community places an outsized
value on sex, and I would just say it is important. Sexism,
it's great. I've spent my entire life being very sex
positive and very slutty, and I would want everyone to
do the same. But after you have a lot of sex,
you'll learn that you know, it's great. It's a fun
(42:11):
way to spend a Saturday night, But it's not as
important as I think a lot of us go through
our lives believing it is. I would still want everyone
to find sexual confidence, but you don't have to constantly
climb or build or do more and more and more.
It's okay to just kind of coast. I would never
want anybody to feel, especially with fisting. I would never
want anyone to feel like they have to reach a
(42:33):
certain level in order to think that beyond that level
it's great. There is no magical level at which fisting
or any kind of sex is just great. It's always
just sex.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yeah, I can relate to that.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That sounds like a great way to end our episode. Yeah, Alex,
this has been a really incredible conversation. But before we
let you go, where can folks find your work? And
what's next on the horizon for you?
Speaker 5 (43:00):
There is a second book coming, but the first book
is available whoever books are sold, and you can follow
me on all the social media platforms. The handle is
bad Alex Cheeves And if anybody's interested in Berlin nightlife,
follow Hinterhouse Magazine. I'm the editor of a magazine here
and it's a fun magazine to check out.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
All right, well, we've heard Alex's wild cruising confessions, but
in our final act we're going to hear an actual
cruising confession from one of you. Will it's a past
one of Alex's stories. I highly doubt it, but let's
stick around and see. Ye.
Speaker 6 (43:35):
Hey, Sniffy's my cruising confession recently happened at a park
in Brooklyn. So I was walking my dog up on
the hill. I see these two guys pretty close to
one another. They look sexy from afar, so we go
check it out. As we're walking up the hill, it
starts drizzling and there's a tree. So my dog goes
and takes some shelter, and I get closer to these
(43:57):
guys and even sexy, you're up close and they are
up to no good. And so I decided to take
shelter with these guys, and you know, we start making
out and doing hand stuff and doing mouth stuff and yeah,
as we're blowing one another and you know, getting more
into it, it starts raining more, more downpour. We're absolutely drenched.
(44:21):
And this continues on until the first guy comes and
then I come, and then the guy at our knees
just goes, man, you too are like a waterfall. And
after that, I wipe the come away and I grabbed
my dog and we walked down the hill and the
sun comes out and I am feeling excellent. Thank you
(44:46):
for the load sniffies.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
I was like, where was the dog? We lost track
of the dog. The dog, What was the dog doing
in the rain?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
It's just like hanging out. Just walk. Yeah, I am
not a fan of hooking up in the rain.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
I'm from Florida.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
We don't fuck around with around the rain. I don't know.
I guess I gotta take more walks and parks. I'm
not I'll be the dog.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
You can walk me and then well, yeah, we'll use
it as.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
A pretty does a dream come true?
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Sorry, my dog was taking shelter right next to where
you were doing hands stuff things gave people doing fur
the dogs a lovely cruising confession and thank you for sharing.
If you'd like to hear your own cruising confession on
an upcoming episode of this podcast, you can always call
our Cruising Confessions hotline at three zero two two one
nine three eight nine eight. Please call in and share.
(45:39):
I love listening to these. It's my favorite part of
the show. So now that we're at the end of
the episode, I have to ask. The beginning, you sort
of mentioned that you were kind of sure that like,
fisting isn't for you. Has that changed based on our
conversation today?
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Yeah, So there was a.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Moment where Alex was like, I'm lactose intolerant, I can
still fist and I was like, wow, representation, That's what
I needed to see. Right when we got to the
prolapse as part and some of the dangers, and I
understand all sex is a calculated risk, right, We all
take calculated risks in in search.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Of pleasure living in New York.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Absolutely, yeah, I take a calculated risk going to get groceries,
all right, So like totally understand that. But when we
did get to the injuries and prolapse part, I was like,
I think my ratio of not being interested when from
ninety nine to one hundred, Okay, me and my vowels,
you know, we've got an interesting relationship. I understand they're
they're a very uneasy girl. Yeah, And so I just
(46:30):
I don't know if fisting bottoming is for me, if
that will ever be for me.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
No, I was wondering more.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
I knew you would never be a fisting bottom, but
I was, well, what.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Gave it away so much?
Speaker 3 (46:43):
But I'm wondering if you were more interested in exploring
fisting as a top.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
I yeah, maybe it's not something I'm seeking out, But
you know, if you're if you're served a delicious plate,
why would you not How are you going to say no,
you got to take a bite. Yeah, take one bite
and then dip it in the case. That's not a metaphor.
I don't know why that came up in my head.
It's not that's not any sort of new slang.
Speaker 6 (47:05):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Very grateful to Alex. We're making the call the Away
from Berlin as well to take us through our very
first fisting episode. I'm kind of surprised it took us
until season three. I've been dying to dive in. I
couldn't think of anyone to do it better with than
Alex Chevez. And again a reminder. His memoir is titled
My Love Is a Beast Confessions. All right, we'll see
you all next time. Safe fisting?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Is that what we all say?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
Safe fisting? Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is directed by Adam Barron,
produced by A. Menda Kauper and Cameron Femino, and executive
produced by Eli Martin.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Cruising Confessions is presented by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
cruising platform. We're gay by curious people ready to cruise.
Check out the map at snippies dot com and Paul
Snifchees at Snippy's app.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Cruisers are a community do your part in keeping us safe.
Learn more about protecting your sexual health at healthy sexuals
dot com.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Put Jo, put put jo, put put yo, put
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