July 11, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode Gabe and Chris talk to two radical kinksters - Puppy Trainer Chipper and Leather Boy Donald Shorter, Jr. - about the benefits and risks involved in living their kinkiest lives. In the process, we talk about the psychology that makes fetish such a potent piece of our sexualities. What’s your wildest kink? Or something you’ve always wanted to try?
Follow Sniffies' Cruising Confessions: cruisingconfessions.com
Try Sniffies: sniffies.com
Follow Sniffies on Social:
Instagram: instagram.com/sniffiesapp
TikTik: tiktok.com/@sniffiesapp
Follow the hosts:
Gabe Gonzalez: instagram.com/gaybonez
Chris Patterson-Rosso: instagram.com/cprgivesyoulife
Guests featured in this episode:
Chipper
Donald C. Shorter Jr
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer
discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Gabe.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Oh, yes, Chris, it's Cruising Confession time. Do you have
any kinks or fetishes?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, I think I think everybody does, but I'm always
confused about the difference between them. My understanding is like
a kink defines like a very broad array of sexual
interests that deviate from the norm or whatever that is.
So by that standard, definitely and do some kinks. I'm
a little more neibulous on the term fetish. Do you
(00:52):
have a working definition for that?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I generally describe fetish as as things or people or
play is that really get you a rouse, turn you
on on?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So, like a fetish can be a kink. But yeah,
all kinks are fetishes exactly. I feel like I'm taking
an essayt test for queer sex.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
This is and that's why we're here.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
That's exactly why we're here to figure it out with you.
I am so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I think I have kinks, but I think everybody does.
I'm like, who decides what's kinky? Like, growing up a
CD was kinky. Acating was fully kinky, and we saw
it on Girls, Yes, and then we saw it on
Broad City. Yeah, and now the straight people are doing it,
so maybe it's not kink anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think they were always doing it, they just weren't
talking about it. Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah,
because like it's sex. You're right, we're going to discover things, right, Yeah,
how about you? Do you have any any kinks? I
have a very long list of kinks and fetishes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Whenever I get asked that question, I'm like, how do
I answer this? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Because like the people who are generally asking me the
question aren't ready for the answer.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Right, You're like, how long? How long do you have?
Like is the zoom an hour long? No? We got
a Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's like these twenty three year olds who were like
who seeming like in a harness, They're like, oo, what
are your king?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And I'm like, oh, sweetheart, buckle up.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Buckle up. Coincidentally, one of my kinks is buckling up, so.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Safety first. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
In this episode, we were talking to two radical King
practitioners about how they came to know themselves and the
benefits and risks involved in living their kinkiest lives. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
In the process, we demystify what makes fetish such a
potent piece of our sexualities.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
What's your secret kink.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Or something you've always wanted to try? Don't worry, you
can share. You are among friends. Welcome to Stiffy's Cruising Confessions.
I am Gabe Goins.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime
world of queer sex, cruising and relationship.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Will be talking to queer folks of all kinds, ask
them questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations. A lot
of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the
library or the airport.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder here,
So I haven't like the neighborhood slot and I took
pride in that I was.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
So afraid but yet so intrigued.
Speaker 7 (03:06):
And the more I gave him, the more he could take.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
If you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a
moral deficit.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Our first guest is someone who gets woofed out wherever
he goes. Chipper is a Brooklyn based handler and leatherman
with multiple BDSM identities.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Chipper hosts educational and social events in and around New
York City that facilitate connections with the humans behind the
put puts such as Pet Park and Cultured Pets. He's
co producer of New York's premiere pet play events, Brooklyn
Pet Play Weekend and Unleashed.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
He was awarded the title of Northeast Handler in twenty
twenty three and recently won the title International Trainer twenty
twenty four at the International Peppy and Trainer Conference. He's
a grateful drug addict with years of sobriety under his belt,
and advocates for harm reduction and responsible alcohol and drug use,
as well as other forms of recovery. Please welcome Chipper. Hey,
how are you doing right?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Hey? Where?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And how does your king journey start?
Speaker 8 (04:05):
Well?
Speaker 5 (04:05):
I feel like they're like two coming out right Because
like when I was younger, like my late teens, early twenties,
I didn't relate to myself as a kinkster. But he
was like one of those things that like, as I
looked back, I was like she was into some shit.
I've never identified as a monogamous person. I've always viewed
my polyamory as a part of my identity more than
just like a practice with someone, and so I never
(04:26):
felt like constrained to that. But I also grew up
in like a super conservative space, and one of my
survival mechanisms was like freak.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Them out, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
I was like, I'm going to be loud, I'm going
to be out there, I'm going to do what I want.
And so I was like the neighborhood slot, you know,
and I took pride in that, and I would like,
you know, blow guys in the parking lots or like
find whoever I could find.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Like I got pride from like.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Hooking up with people going to like their apartment and
realizing how that'd sack with everyone else who also lived
in the apartment and that kind of stuff true Brooklyn Night.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, just like check chack check check before.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
But I never viewed that is like something leading into
like or being kink per se. I also didn't have
the vocabulary or the understanding, you know. It was a
super download culture, and so I was also kind of
like introduced in like a bizarre way because it was
down low. There's like a lot of secrecy and not
a lot of conversation. It wasn't the healthiest like kink
(05:27):
space to be in. In my late twenties, I was
introduced to meth and that became like a huge factor
of a lot of things I did. For the first time,
I was like really high and fucked up one, you know,
and so I was introduced to a lot of like
water sports, fisting, a lot of power dynamics through that lens,
and I just wanted to disassociate right Like it was
(05:48):
like the acts with no substance. And so when I
got sober, it completely shifted everything and I became more
attracted to kink and the community aspects of and like
the full kind of practice of it, because I felt
so vulnerable as a sober person and I was like
I didn't feel comfortable to being that person. I was
(06:11):
in my twenties just putting myself in situations, you know.
The first time I did math, I was in Switzerland
having some drinks at a bar and this guy was like, Oh,
you're cute. You want to come do this? And I
was like yeah. And so I jump in a car
with someone who I like met like five minutes before.
You have me an hour and a half into the
middle of Switzerland. Who into this like mansion that we
show up to that no one is living in. Tells
(06:32):
me to like go up to the second floor. I
walk in and there's like an empty room with like
a tarp covering the complete of the floor and a
single plastic mattress in the middle. And I was like, fuck, yes,
I was so ready for it. Yeah, that's like the
kind of thinking I was in.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
I was so hungry for like experiences that went out
that took me outside of myself. And then so getting
sober is the opposite. Like I was looking for experience,
it took me inside of myself, and I needed the
safety and security. I needed the conversations. I needed the
spiritual connection because so much of my king practice like sure,
I get off, I like to have fun, I like
(07:11):
to come, I like other people to come, but sometimes
it's like not about that, like it's totally about like
this kind of spiritual connection or intimate connection with someone else,
and so that's been.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Like a game changer for me.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
You know, what did it look like in the beginning
of versus variety to sort of like engage in these
king spaces sober? I know, for myself it took a
lot of like conversations with people about like I don't know,
negotiating what I will allow, what I won't allow, what
spaces are safe for me, what or not safe for me?
How do I get myself out of a situation that
(07:45):
I may not want to be in right, and also
just being comfortable to do the things right because like
you so much of my kink starter while I was
using math and like that's a total brain fuck, you know,
And do I still like these things? Was a question
I was having, you know, and like trying to find
those people that are okay with me exploring these things
and potentially having to pull out because I was like,
(08:07):
you know what, this is too much?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
What was your experience with that?
Speaker 5 (08:09):
So I didn't have sex like the first six months,
and then I was like it was very clear that
was also not a winning strategy for me. Like people
around me were like, please fuck someone immediately, but I
didn't feel comfortable just going on the apps or going
to like online spaces or just meeting people. I didn't
want to be at bars, you know, and so like
(08:29):
it became so much more limited, and I feel like
going to places where I knew there'd be other sober
people or engaging became safer for me. And I also
wasn't sure what I could handle anymore. Like, you know, I,
for example, I've not been a fisting bottom since I
got sober, you know, I'm a fisting top, but it's
just like something that's not come back for me, or
(08:50):
maybe it was never a thing that I was actually
into his bottom, you know, And so I had to
like relearn that. And the best way to do is
people who know what they're doing, right, And so it
became really clear to me really quickly that the people
at the Skills like help me navigate my own experiences
with the people who were in the BDSM world. And
so immediately I was like, ah, like these people like
(09:10):
get it. And so I actually felt safer to explore
my kink side a lot more than just like fucking
or sacks. Outside of that, like it became much more integrated,
and that's a big thing. What got me into puppy
play because I feel like puppy play it's a very welcoming,
easy space that doesn't follow a lot of the protocols
that all the traditions do, and so it felt like
(09:31):
easy to like navigate into and find community into, which
gave me access to a lot of people who are
doing really cool things.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So I'm curious you were telling us a bit about
entering the world of puppy play. When were you like, Oh,
this is a community or rather in affinity groups that
I'm very interested in being a part of or participating with.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
I was at work am I doing my barista job
in Brooklyn, as people do, and I met a pop
and I was interested, and then he invited me to
come hang out. And what attracted me to the whole
thing immediately was like the sense of like playful brotherhoodness,
Like I you know, it wasn't an accident that I
ended up being an addict, Like my whole life is
(10:11):
filled with like me escaping myself, me being awkward and
young and not able to like handle the world as
it was, And so it was like an I the
connection of it was like rid is here to like
pretend to be dogs with each other, you know, like
there's really nothing. The whole point is that I don't
have to worry about if this person likes me, or
if I have to pay bills or if you know,
(10:32):
I can put on a hood and kind of like
block out the rest of the world and just like
snuggle and cuddle and wrestle with some other people. And
it was just so energizing, you know, to just be
in this like freeing space. Like it was the first
time I really felt like I gave myself permission to
like let go of who I was and that I
could be like something completely I made up, you know,
(10:54):
And that's like so much of my journey and so
many things they do is that like how can I
give myself permission to have this ence and allow myself
to enjoy it if I if I do enjoy it,
because sometimes I don't always, But it was the first
one I was just like, oh, this clicked.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
It's not like I'm only into pet play and that's
the only thing I do. Like, there's so many things
that cross over, like as meeting Rubber Pops and getting
into like like power dynamics with then pop play, which
can be like more soft on rather than hard depending
everyone's different. I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf,
but people, there was just so much crossover that just
kept me coming back, you know, and kept me interested
in what the scenes could look like. Uh and and
(11:31):
that just got me more knowledge, more integrated until suddenly,
like a friend was like, you realize you're the inside,
you know. I was like, oh, you know, like as
I always envisioned myself as someone on the outside trying
to get in, and they're like, no, actually, you're the
person on the inside. And I just started doing events,
you know, and that just led to one thing, led
to the next thing, led to the next thing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
How much does sex play a part in pet play? Yeah,
it depends.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
What's interesting is that there's a pretty decent like a
sexual community in the pop world that crosses often not
always with like furries as well. Like there's a lot
of shared interest there. Unleashed, which is the peblic party,
is specifically about how many ways can we get you
in the headspace and a shared experience. We actually make
(12:16):
space and Unleashed for asexual pops until midnight, there's certain
areas where you know you're not going to see genitals
out where you know you're not going to see sex
explicitly happening. And there are people who come for that
hang out and want to socialize, be a puppy in
the marsh, and then when midnight hits, they go, i'll
see you later, thanks for the party, have a good one.
And the people who want to have sex do And
that can look in so many, so many different ways.
(12:37):
Right did you say mash Yeah, mash like a like
a mashpit. No, okay, that's yeah. This is the way
I define a marsh is think of taking your dog
to the dog park. So it's a space that's provided
with mats, and people come with like their gear and
(12:57):
they go into like dog headspace or whatever animal that
person might be, and you play, you know, so you
can play with a trainer like me, or you can
play with other dogs, you play with toys. You can
just sleep in the corner and do nothing, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I know. I was like, if if I went, I
think that'd be me. Yeah, I'd be the sleepy puppy
for sure.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
It's an opportunity to allow like the one and one
play between like a trainer or a handler and a pet.
Except in a social context.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Do you feel like folks show up to these events
with like a partner and a pre established dynamic or
do you ever have like handlers and pups or pets
meet at these events and kind of like navigate the
powerplay dynamic with each other in real time, like.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Showing up independently and right cool?
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, both cool. But there's a shortage of
handlers that gives a shortage of tops, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And I love this. Brooklyn is really down.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Where are the doms at?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I know I have become a verse by accident.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Everyone's like, you're just so short, and I was like, fine,
I'll do both, and here we are.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Yeah, of course, I mean I love a short.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Top, I know'd.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, So it's a mix.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
Like some people have a pre established dynamic and they come,
but a lot of people don't. There's a lot of
straight dogs out there and a lot of people who
are interested in what puppy play is. I think it's
cute or like they like some of the light subdom
potential that's in it, but they don't really know how
to enter into it. So it's like a good opportunity
to like see people meet people, to see what's going on,
(14:41):
and depending on the space, like how far are they
getting the negotiating that. Like, I've definitely had an experience
of like fascination in Boston where I met a dog
I didn't I didn't even see their face until like
later in the night, like they were there, and I
started like playing with them as a handler, and it
was just like I got to go handler headspace, you know,
(15:01):
where I was just like taking care and playing and
giving commands and like just seeing the level of obedience
and had to like improve their performance. And I was
just like so into it. And I had not met
that person prior to that, And so there's opportunities kind
of come up in the space from the play side
as well as like, well, all this horny is fun.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
What's so interesting to me is that like, as we're
making room for people who are interested in kinks but
not sex, there's also space for that, particularly with PEP play, right,
that it is more about these dom sub dynamics as
they manifest socially rather than like, oh, this is going
to be something where I'm like penetrating you by the end,
which maybe you are right, but the fact that the
there's a spectrum of possibilities. There's really interesting for me
(15:42):
because I always assumed I was like, oh, kinks are
involved sex and sexual activity.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yeah, I mean I think pep play is like anything else.
Like I mean there's a dom who I play with
an impact who I am not sure he's ever penetrated me,
you know, Like the scene is purely about the impact
and the power. I mean to drink his piss.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So that's but there's some exchange.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
But it's it's not about the penetration. It's not about
the orgasm. It's like literally like what we're there to do,
you know, And it's about the dynamic, what's happening, how
we're present for each other, where we can take each
other and pet plays no different than that, and so
like yeah, like for me, like my idea of a
treat is going to be my dick or my toes
or my calm or my butt or some kind of
(16:29):
sexual thing.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
That's me.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
I'm a very sexual person. But some people just want
like Scooby snacks, you know, or some people want like
a chew toy, And that's completely valid sufficient you know
what I mean, it doesn't it's just like what anyone's
seeking to gain from that experience and what gives them
like satisfaction and joy, because like that's what's like. Pet
play is so fun and silly, because it's like what
(16:53):
would give you joy, Like what would make you be
like good boy and be like fuck, yes, I wanted
this so much. It's completely open, and it could be
in distinct to the person or the pup or pet
who wants it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I feel like pep play has become more visible for
me recently. I don't know if that's a mean thing
or if it's like a true phenomenon that more people
are exploring it. But I do see a lot of
pup masks in public, and obviously they're.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Like at the gym truly yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Walking around Brooklyn, like at the Eagle.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
I think puppy has blown up so much for a
few reasons. One is COVID, like people are locked up instapups,
you know, became a thing. People are like, this is
a cute visual aesthetic. I can get any color I
want from a whole bunch of leather brands and be
cute and fun and sexy, and that's valid, you know.
And so I think that brought up in the public
(17:43):
eye a lot more. In addition, it doesn't have the
kind of stigmas that as I feel like the fetish
world has like embraced inclusivity around race, gender sexuality, that
you know, there's no if you're a boy, it's like
a very specific thing. It's like a handbook, this is
you be boy, and you can of course, you make
(18:05):
it your own and you shift it. But with pop
it's so much more open ended, and I think that
a lot of people are attracted to the ability to
have their own agency, even within a scene that might
be pre arranged. That's why I'm like proud to be
a part of the leather community, you know, because people
are adapting and changing and with the times. I'm cautious
sometimes when I use the word healing, because I think
(18:26):
people need to go to therapy, people need to figure
out their systems of recovery and whatever that means in
many different ways.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
King should not be like your only go to.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
But kink does have a power to heal, and it
has the power to like reenact and retransform like these
narratives that we have with each other and ourselves and
so like it's just cool shit.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Also, Chipper, thank you again.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
For joining us. This has been so much fun.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Where can folks find you online if they want to
come to Unleashed or any of your other events.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
The best way to find me personally is follow chipper
that's on all of my things. Unleashed is Unleashed to
be on Instagram. You can check it out there. We
have another party I think August ninth, second Friday of August.
It's going to be a fun time, good summer time.
And then we're doing a beach trip the next day,
actually to Gunnisan, which.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Is gonna be Are you driving or taking the Faiy Fairy? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Okay, so sorry ignorant question. But if you take your
pet to the beach and it's a nude beach, do
they keep the mask on or is it like a
we're out of pet play gear for the day.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Here's a little tidbit. To be a puppy or any
kind of pet, you don't require anything except for what's
up here.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay, I like that.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
On that note, as we find our inner pups, we're
gonna take a break when we come back. Film Maker
journalists and kingster Donald Trorter Junior talks about his kink
journey Daddy's and navigating kink spaces as a person of color.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Moresnith these cruis and confessions.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
After the break, Shipperson, be a good cup, you makee
good upissic. Oh yeah, Shipperson, jump through this hoop. I
know that you can do it. Scritches and treats. Ah
(20:18):
that scritches in streets. Scritches and treats.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Scritches and treats.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
That was Scritches and Treats by Chris Conde, the Rapper Now.
Our next guest is a self described leather boy with
a passion for Daddy's one I can certainly share. Donald
Shorter is a multidisciplinary artist whose work explores identity and
seeks to answer the question can my body be free?
His creative practice involves exploring leather culture, sex, and identity.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Donald has danced with world renowned professional dance companies, and
his film and performances have been presented all over the world.
He's also a kink educator who teaches workshops to empower
other leather boys like himself. Please welcome, My Good and
Donald Shorta Jr.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
I love.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Make this boy feel so special. It's truly our expertise here. Yeah,
thank you all for having me.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Do you remember the first time you saw kinker feathers
represented in the mainstream media.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
I think my obsession with leather started when I saw
the Police Academy films, And there's a scene that happens
in all of sort of the franchise where they go
to the Blue Oyster, And in the Blue Oyster it
is a gay bar full of guys in bluff which
is like full on leather regalia, like mirror caps, like jackets,
(21:40):
like vests, leather pants, boots, and they dance the tango. Yeah,
it's like that's like the bit, right, And I just
remember being a young kid and seeing that scene and
like always like rewinding it and going back to it.
And that sort of was the first time that I'd
seen leather in film and media and became obsessed with
and like just had an automatic attraction and interest to
(22:03):
like what that world was.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's amazing. Talk to me about the first time you
went to a leather bar. What was that like?
Speaker 6 (22:12):
When I turned twenty one, I was still in college,
but yet sort of a couple of years after, I
moved to Philadelphia, and there is a leather bar in
Philly called the bike stop once again. I just remember
having sort of this like interest in sort of knowing
what was inside of that bar. Was it gonna be
like the Blue Oyster? And so I was so afraid
but yet so intrigued. I didn't have gear, right, so
(22:36):
I didn't feel like I could you know, fit in
with sort of the leathermen that were there, who were
sort of in full bluff or full gear. So yeah,
I did have to sort of like have a lot
of liquid courage to go into these spaces to only
still feel like I just like couldn't fit in, you know.
So there was just a lot of fear and anxiety
around that, you know. But I would, you know, I
(22:57):
would stick around and stay, you know, in my G
and T shirt and hope that you know, a leather
guy would talk to me.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You did you see yourself reflected in that space? I didn't.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
I think now there are a lot of leather spaces
for so many different folks who don't identify as CIS, white, gay,
and male. You know, they're more inclusive leather spaces for
other marginalized folks. But at the time, I didn't, you know,
and I still think there's a lot of work to
do around being able to create leather spaces for the
non sise, white gay men.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
What's interesting You've talked about how the community, at least
visibly from the outside, seemed predominantly white, and leather culture
does involve a lot of regalia as you mentioned that
harkens back to like classic police uniforms and sort of
a kind of like almost militaristic vibe to it, right,
which I think reads very differently to communities of color
than it does white folks. And you've talked about how
(23:52):
spaces for people of color in the leather scene have expanded.
What was it like sort of navigating that early as
a black person of predominantly white space and also seeing
imagery from like law enforcement, Like, how did you sort
of navigate that interest with your comfort?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (24:07):
I think that it wasn't until maybe probably about five
to seven years ago when I really had mentorship and
a lot of access to resources in terms of information
and like I said, mentorship to really start thinking about
what does it mean for me to be a queer
person of color and accessing these communities. You know, I
(24:28):
think so much of what we know to be police
uniforms language, you know, in the BDSM, fetish, king, communities
tools that are used for pain and or pleasure have
a pretty sordid past around racism in the world and
in this country, right, and so there's always that sense
of navigating sort of that history and how I engage
(24:52):
with it. The reason why it is that I'm doing
how do I identify I am a submissive, I am
a leather boy? Right, have to build relationships with dominance
and or subs and or switches to be able to
navigate and BDS and leather fetish and kink and ways
that are safe saying and consensual. What are my boundaries
for me? That does not include race play?
Speaker 7 (25:15):
Right?
Speaker 6 (25:16):
That may be for someone else, but that doesn't that
doesn't connect for me. But knowing that there is an
element of you know, racism, brutality, right, oppression that's connected
to this world, and how I engage with that is
there's a there's an awesome book. I can't think of
it right now, but one of the scholars in the
(25:37):
book talks about sort of like, yes, there are people
who see this as absolutely not that you know, people
of color should not be engaging in leather fetish and
king can be DSM. Her argument is sort of saying that,
how do we honor the history of what this, you know,
connects with, but how can we use these implements, these
(25:59):
tools as tools of empowerment for what it is that
we're seeking, catharsis release, connection, intimacy. So I have to
make sure for me that I've acknowledged right that that
is a part of it. But how can I connect
with people in ways that are safe, staying and consensual, trust,
honesty and communication that will respect my boundaries?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Right?
Speaker 6 (26:19):
So I always say that leather fetish and kink and BDSM,
those experiences for me have been transformative, right like in
a spiritual sense, you know, And they've allowed me to
connect to myself and to someone else in ways that
vanilla sex hasn't. I consistently have to sit with and
(26:42):
answer those questions and then sort of having those experiences,
I continue to find answers and more questions.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
We're like, we have many questions.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, yeah, I love this.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I do want to fall up really quickly and ask
about lingo and sort of the vernacular surrounding the leather scene.
You identify as a boy. Could you sort of unpack
what that means in the context of the subdom play
you're talking about and unpack the term for us a bit.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
Yeah, So, I mean I think in the BDSM, leather
fetish king communities, right, there's all of these ways in
which we can identify dom sub switch, alpha, you know, daddy, sir, master, slave, boy,
pop handler.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Being a boy is.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
A category of submissive. That does mean that I am
I have a dominant, and that dominant can be a ser,
can be a daddy. It's an interpersonal relationship and sort
of how I express my submission to that dominant is
going to be up to myself in a dominant. So
I can't sort of say that this is standard across
the board. But there, as a boy, there is an
(27:49):
act of submission or acts of submission that you would
honor your dominant buy and those can include all different
types of protocols that can be public and or private,
and once again, those are negotiated with your dominant. There
is no one way to be a boy, right, It's
not based on it. You know, being a boy isn't
about like age, race, section like, it's just you know,
(28:13):
it's just how you identify and what being a boy
means to me is going to be different from someone else,
and so I think for me, once again, as a boy,
I am looking for dominant. I mostly connect with daddy's
and so in terms of dom sub relationships, I'm very
much connected to the daddy boy dom sub relationship.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I'm wondering, do you have multiple partners or is there
one daddy that you're with and what is he like
if you're interested in sharing, like your dynamic some of
the hardest things you've tried together.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Yeah, this is like, once again, these are interpersonal relationship,
So what my daddy boy relationship looks like is going
to be far different from what someone else is. I
just want to sort of like put that out there
and say that I think you know my daddy boy relationship.
(29:08):
We don't live in the same city, so I think
being able to maintain the relationship, we've had to find
ways that we can still connect. So that's phone calls
at certain points in the week, FaceTime calls, we'll see
each other at different leather events that happen here in
the country, and sort of being able to live out
our daddy boy relationship in its fullest potential, and that
(29:32):
does include both play and not play right just as
much as we identify as daddy and boy. We're very
much just two people, right, and so that's just an
element of connection that's that's there and is important for
us as well. The daddy boy relationship that I have
once again has been one of the most profound relationships
(29:54):
that I've had, and I have a short documentary called
boys right, And you know, I'll just sort of say that, like,
you know, yes, there is an element of uh, a
lack of intimate relationship with my own biological father who
passed away four years ago that I didn't have, right,
and so being able to explore an intimate relationship with
the dominant who I call daddy has been sort of
(30:16):
very therapeutic for me and very healing. But once again,
just as much as yes, he is my dominant who
I call daddy, he is still a person who I
care for in.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Love deeply, you know.
Speaker 6 (30:28):
So it isn't just I'm not just fetishizing this person
for that sake.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
I want to hear about the hottest scene that you've
ever been involved in? Oh yeah, Oh do I know
the story already promising?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
What am I willing to share? That is the question. No,
I will say that I think for me.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
As I go along in my leather journey, I definitely
do like impact play, so thanking, flogging, and I'm on
both ends of the implement. I will definitely say that
one of the one of the first moments where I
went to a new place in my impact play journey
was with was with Daddy, you know, and you know,
(31:18):
there was a spanking scene that we'd done and sort
of the intention was to to really go to a
place I'd never been before. It was like, when we
can't go anymore, let's keep going, you know. And I'd
never I'd never, I'd never done this before, but like
I just started crying, like I don't there.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Was a c.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I was like, we needed the context and I didn't
know what that was.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
And and so I found that impact play is a
form of catharsis. It's a form of release, and there's
there's so much that I'm able to let go right
And as I continue to go along in my leather journey,
once again setting an intention for a scene, not every
scene is that that is not the you know, And
(32:09):
there's certain people that I won't go to that place with,
but there are a couple of people who I will
and it's it's just, yeah, it can get really intense.
I will say that I've seen some very intense scenes
of people who've been single tailed.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
And what is that.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
I'm just a single tail is a it's a it's
a form of a whip that just sort of has
a really a really long sort of tail that then
has like a little sort of like not at the
end of it.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
And you know, and so I've seen I've seen people.
One of my mentors, that is his expertise, right, he
is a single tale expert, and he was playing with
another friend of ours and I remember watching this scene
and uh, he sort of brought me over behind him.
There's a guy who's standing on a Saint Andrew's cross, right,
(33:01):
and this guy wanted to as the sub wanted to
like push and it was not easy for a lot
of people to watch. And so I remember sitting back
and my mentor brought me over and like this guy's
back was like hamburger me like blood everywhere. Trigger warning.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I grew up Catholic that that happened once a year
in mass all right, that was we had the reenactments.
I feel like that might have been my introduction to
the BDSM community. It was Catholicism. We love a good
flock literature.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
And it was really intense to see but also really
powerful to see that two people were able to connect
in a way of I'm able to take you there,
and I want you to take me there. And at
a certain point in the scene, my mentor brought me
over to the bottom and sort of said, like, this
is where I'm aiming for on his back, and this
(33:59):
is what is doing now. You know, who knows, maybe
in seven to eight years I may be that person
who is doing that. And I've had that one on
one experience through that, right, I felt their power and
energy exchange through that. It was unlike anything I'd ever
experienced in my life. And it was so powerful and
(34:22):
beautiful to be able to be in that space and
that they let me be in that space. Many people
kind of came around and saw what was happening and
they couldn't take it. But once again, they both were
consenting to go on that journey together and to know
that they will be taken care of afterwards. Right, And
that's a great point. Right, So as much of it
is about that is always about consent and creating a
(34:46):
container through which we say this is how, this is
what we're going to navigate, this is where I want
to go. This is a safe word that we can
utilize so that if I reach a point for whatever,
that we use this word and every think stops. It's over,
no questions asked. And a part of them sort of
the negotiation process is saying that we will have aftercare.
(35:08):
Now what aftercare looks like for for people? Once again,
these are interpersonal relationships. They're going to vary, right, so
that there is aftercare.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, I appreciate that. And also you walking us through this.
I mean again, from the outside, what we get is
like the blue oyster tango right y yeah, or you
go into the egle and you see someone getting flogged
in a corner, or even orders. I've been to straight
bars in Florida where they're like people come in and
they're like little cages and there's like a dancer that
will flog you and everyone's like, ooh, I'm gonna get flogged. Right,
(35:38):
It's like this idea that it's like the leather scene
is something you can just jump into, and you can.
But I think what you're talking about right when you
start developing these dynamics and you start veering toward impact play.
It's I think it's crucial for people to realize that
there is a lot of boundary setting and conversations happened
before and care that happens after.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
It's like navigating this oscillation between pain and pleasure really
does take an emotional connection and a level of trust
that I think those outside the community might not understand.
So I'm curious, what is maybe the most important piece
of advice you could give a young person who might
be wanting to explore their kinks and is interested in
the leathers scene.
Speaker 6 (36:18):
Yeah, especially I'm you know, I grew up at a
time as a young gay man prior to the Internet existing, right,
So being able to find communities you know, was really hard.
You sort of had to be on the know, and
if you did not fit a certain look right, then
you weren't gaining access, right, especially being a leather person
of color. So I think now there's all of these
(36:41):
digital communities and spaces where people which people can access
to find out or to connect, right, And I think
for me, first things first, vet people like, yes, you know,
have fun, right and your leather exploration, but that people right,
don't just rush into wanting to do a scene with
(37:03):
someone and you don't know this person. You don't know
what their values are, you don't know what their interests are,
you don't know what their intent is. Right, So VET
people to make sure that they are safe and that
you can once again play in ways that are safe,
staying and consensual. Right, So automatically get references if you
go on I don't know if I won't say any
other website names, but if you go on to like,
(37:26):
let's say a website that is primarily focused for BDSM,
leather fetish and kink, and you see that that person
doesn't have any friends and they're wanting X, Y and
Z from you, and you know, so VET people, you know,
I would say, find community of other people who have
the lived experience, who are respectable within the community. So
(37:48):
and then the third one is to have fun. You
know that that there are I've learned many lessons and
I continue to learn and grow as a leather person
and maybe from setbacks or failures or mistakes, you know,
you hope they don't cost you too much. But that's
the way in which which I've been able to grow.
But to have fun Donald.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
You're also an amazing filmmaker, and now you're starting to
make film around your leather fetishing kink experience. Talk to
me about those films and where can we find them.
Speaker 6 (38:17):
Yeah, I a lot of my work as an artist
is autobiographical, and so it's a great way for me
to process the way in which I experienced the world.
And so I ended up creating a short film called
State of Mind, and it's I'm so blown away by
sort of how successful it's been. It's really sort of
(38:38):
a poetic visualization of how I experience BDSM. It is ceremony,
it is ritual. What does it mean to sort of
start a scene by having the dom place the collar on?
How do you sort of position yourself to show loyalty,
to show surrender, to show submission. And it was a risk,
(38:59):
but it so well received, you know. And so right
now it's on streaming online the Hump Film Festival. They
have a streaming library, so it's there, and we're also
in deals. We're also in the works for another licensing deal.
In the very early stages of this film, and you
and I were talking about it and you were staying
on my couch. That's filming and you have showed me
(39:21):
the first edit and I just remember thinking this is
so beautiful and so intimate. Yeah, I think that for
me because there is such an element of danger and
risk and sort of these more sort of type of
fringe play as we call it, where it's maybe breath
control or maybe there you know, there is a flogg
(39:42):
or there's impact there at bondage, right, Like, there's all
these ways in which I think you have to extend
care for the person that you're with, maybe more so
than what you might do in a dark room.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Right.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
So when I'm connecting with someone, I think connection is
is the most important word. I need to be able
to trust you. I want to feel a connection, right
because I am submitting to you. Maybe I don't have
vision or maybe I can't hear, right, So I need
to know that for wherever we go in the scene,
that you will protect me and that we have that
(40:18):
element of power exchange leather sex. To me, that's that
was that sort of sense of connection was profound and
new and something that I hadn't experienced in my vanilla
sex life. And that's where this this radical sense of
spiritual connection and transformation has taken place.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thank you so much for joining us today, Donald.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
For having me, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
It's been such a pleasure to get to share this
platform with you and hear more about your journey. And
it's been really phenomenal to watch as a friend and
someone I can consider family to sort of like watch
you grow into the boy that you are today.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, where can people find you?
Speaker 6 (41:01):
You can find me on Instagram at d O n
x M men, don x men. You can find my
work on the Tom of Finlin website. You can also
find some of my work over at Drummer Magazine. There's
a couple of new issues that are out that I'm
a part of, And I was an artist in residence
at the Tom of Finland Foundation this past fall and
(41:22):
so I'm still connected with the foundation, so please go
check them out. There's such a deep history and so
much that's archived and so much new representation for the
home eerotic arts that are happening in the world today.
So you can check me out at over on those platforms.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I love that. Fantastic Thank you again, Donald.
Speaker 8 (41:44):
I just want nice let's sets and so sweet and
it's a city one more beyond I don't want to
be a good bye anymore. I don't want to be
a good bye anymore.
Speaker 7 (42:01):
I just want to next.
Speaker 8 (42:03):
So you just set send the outspeed and next.
Speaker 7 (42:08):
More bed.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I don't want to be a big anymore.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You just heard I don't want to be a good
boy anymore. By Vince the Alien. This episode has been
super enlightening. Can you tell me something that you learned
so much?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I mean, you know, obviously I have friends in the
leather scene, but I you know, I've known they've identified
as like switches, bottoms, daddies boys, but I've never really
kind of interrogated the dynamics and conversations that take place
in establishing these roles and thinking about how much they switch, right,
I mean, we're having this conversation when comes to tops
(42:43):
and bottoms.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
It's like, I don't know, it depends on the day
and my mood. Right.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Obviously, there's a little more work in terms of cultivating
these relationships, but I'm just so curious about how the language,
both spoken and unspoken, continues to evolve and change on
a personal level, on a community level.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
I'm want to thank our guest today, pup Chipper and
my good friend Donald Shoulders Jr.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is a production of the Outspoken podcast
Network from iHeart Podcasts. It's directed by Adam Barron, produced
by Stevie Williams and Cameron Femino, and executive produced by
Eli Martin. Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's, the ultimate
map based cruising platform for gay, by and curious people
ready to cruise. Check out the map at Sniffy's dot
(43:25):
com and follow Sniffy's on socials at Sniffy's app.
Speaker 7 (43:28):
Put job, put put Joe, put put Joe put up
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this. Viewer
discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Gabe.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Oh, yes, Chris, it's Cruising Confession time. Do you have
any kinks or fetishes?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, I think I think everybody does, but I'm always
confused about the difference between them. My understanding is like
a kink defines like a very broad array of sexual
interests that deviate from the norm or whatever that is.
So by that standard, definitely and do some kinks. I'm
a little more neibulous on the term fetish. Do you
(00:52):
have a working definition for that?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
I generally describe fetish as as things or people or
play is that really get you a rouse, turn you
on on?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So, like a fetish can be a kink. But yeah,
all kinks are fetishes exactly. I feel like I'm taking
an essayt test for queer sex.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
This is and that's why we're here.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
That's exactly why we're here to figure it out with you.
I am so excited.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I think I have kinks, but I think everybody does.
I'm like, who decides what's kinky? Like, growing up a
CD was kinky. Acating was fully kinky, and we saw
it on Girls, Yes, and then we saw it on
Broad City. Yeah, and now the straight people are doing it,
so maybe it's not kink anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I think they were always doing it, they just weren't
talking about it. Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah,
because like it's sex. You're right, we're going to discover things, right, Yeah,
how about you? Do you have any any kinks? I
have a very long list of kinks and fetishes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Whenever I get asked that question, I'm like, how do
I answer this? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Because like the people who are generally asking me the
question aren't ready for the answer.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Right, You're like, how long? How long do you have?
Like is the zoom an hour long? No? We got
a Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's like these twenty three year olds who were like
who seeming like in a harness, They're like, oo, what
are your king?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And I'm like, oh, sweetheart, buckle up.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Buckle up. Coincidentally, one of my kinks is buckling up, so.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Safety first. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
In this episode, we were talking to two radical King
practitioners about how they came to know themselves and the
benefits and risks involved in living their kinkiest lives. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
In the process, we demystify what makes fetish such a
potent piece of our sexualities.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
What's your secret kink.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Or something you've always wanted to try? Don't worry, you
can share. You are among friends. Welcome to Stiffy's Cruising Confessions.
I am Gabe Goins.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime
world of queer sex, cruising and relationship.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Will be talking to queer folks of all kinds, ask
them questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations. A lot
of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the
library or the airport.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder here,
So I haven't like the neighborhood slot and I took
pride in that I was.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
So afraid but yet so intrigued.
Speaker 7 (03:06):
And the more I gave him, the more he could take.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
If you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a
moral deficit.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Our first guest is someone who gets woofed out wherever
he goes. Chipper is a Brooklyn based handler and leatherman
with multiple BDSM identities.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Chipper hosts educational and social events in and around New
York City that facilitate connections with the humans behind the
put puts such as Pet Park and Cultured Pets. He's
co producer of New York's premiere pet play events, Brooklyn
Pet Play Weekend and Unleashed.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
He was awarded the title of Northeast Handler in twenty
twenty three and recently won the title International Trainer twenty
twenty four at the International Peppy and Trainer Conference. He's
a grateful drug addict with years of sobriety under his belt,
and advocates for harm reduction and responsible alcohol and drug use,
as well as other forms of recovery. Please welcome Chipper. Hey,
how are you doing right?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Hey? Where?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And how does your king journey start?
Speaker 8 (04:05):
Well?
Speaker 5 (04:05):
I feel like they're like two coming out right Because
like when I was younger, like my late teens, early twenties,
I didn't relate to myself as a kinkster. But he
was like one of those things that like, as I
looked back, I was like she was into some shit.
I've never identified as a monogamous person. I've always viewed
my polyamory as a part of my identity more than
just like a practice with someone, and so I never
(04:26):
felt like constrained to that. But I also grew up
in like a super conservative space, and one of my
survival mechanisms was like freak.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Them out, you know.
Speaker 5 (04:35):
I was like, I'm going to be loud, I'm going
to be out there, I'm going to do what I want.
And so I was like the neighborhood slot, you know,
and I took pride in that, and I would like,
you know, blow guys in the parking lots or like
find whoever I could find.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Like I got pride from like.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Hooking up with people going to like their apartment and
realizing how that'd sack with everyone else who also lived
in the apartment and that kind of stuff true Brooklyn Night.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
Yeah, yeah, just like check chack check check before.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
But I never viewed that is like something leading into
like or being kink per se. I also didn't have
the vocabulary or the understanding, you know. It was a
super download culture, and so I was also kind of
like introduced in like a bizarre way because it was
down low. There's like a lot of secrecy and not
a lot of conversation. It wasn't the healthiest like kink
(05:27):
space to be in. In my late twenties, I was
introduced to meth and that became like a huge factor
of a lot of things I did. For the first time,
I was like really high and fucked up one, you know,
and so I was introduced to a lot of like
water sports, fisting, a lot of power dynamics through that lens,
and I just wanted to disassociate right Like it was
(05:48):
like the acts with no substance. And so when I
got sober, it completely shifted everything and I became more
attracted to kink and the community aspects of and like
the full kind of practice of it, because I felt
so vulnerable as a sober person and I was like
I didn't feel comfortable to being that person. I was
(06:11):
in my twenties just putting myself in situations, you know.
The first time I did math, I was in Switzerland
having some drinks at a bar and this guy was like, Oh,
you're cute. You want to come do this? And I
was like yeah. And so I jump in a car
with someone who I like met like five minutes before.
You have me an hour and a half into the
middle of Switzerland. Who into this like mansion that we
show up to that no one is living in. Tells
(06:32):
me to like go up to the second floor. I
walk in and there's like an empty room with like
a tarp covering the complete of the floor and a
single plastic mattress in the middle. And I was like, fuck, yes,
I was so ready for it. Yeah, that's like the
kind of thinking I was in.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
I was so hungry for like experiences that went out
that took me outside of myself. And then so getting
sober is the opposite. Like I was looking for experience,
it took me inside of myself, and I needed the
safety and security. I needed the conversations. I needed the
spiritual connection because so much of my king practice like sure,
I get off, I like to have fun, I like
(07:11):
to come, I like other people to come, but sometimes
it's like not about that, like it's totally about like
this kind of spiritual connection or intimate connection with someone else,
and so that's been.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Like a game changer for me.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
You know, what did it look like in the beginning
of versus variety to sort of like engage in these
king spaces sober? I know, for myself it took a
lot of like conversations with people about like I don't know,
negotiating what I will allow, what I won't allow, what
spaces are safe for me, what or not safe for me?
How do I get myself out of a situation that
(07:45):
I may not want to be in right, and also
just being comfortable to do the things right because like
you so much of my kink starter while I was
using math and like that's a total brain fuck, you know,
And do I still like these things? Was a question
I was having, you know, and like trying to find
those people that are okay with me exploring these things
and potentially having to pull out because I was like,
(08:07):
you know what, this is too much?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
What was your experience with that?
Speaker 5 (08:09):
So I didn't have sex like the first six months,
and then I was like it was very clear that
was also not a winning strategy for me. Like people
around me were like, please fuck someone immediately, but I
didn't feel comfortable just going on the apps or going
to like online spaces or just meeting people. I didn't
want to be at bars, you know, and so like
(08:29):
it became so much more limited, and I feel like
going to places where I knew there'd be other sober
people or engaging became safer for me. And I also
wasn't sure what I could handle anymore. Like, you know, I,
for example, I've not been a fisting bottom since I
got sober, you know, I'm a fisting top, but it's
just like something that's not come back for me, or
(08:50):
maybe it was never a thing that I was actually
into his bottom, you know, And so I had to
like relearn that. And the best way to do is
people who know what they're doing, right, And so it
became really clear to me really quickly that the people
at the Skills like help me navigate my own experiences
with the people who were in the BDSM world. And
so immediately I was like, ah, like these people like
(09:10):
get it. And so I actually felt safer to explore
my kink side a lot more than just like fucking
or sacks. Outside of that, like it became much more integrated,
and that's a big thing. What got me into puppy
play because I feel like puppy play it's a very welcoming,
easy space that doesn't follow a lot of the protocols
that all the traditions do, and so it felt like
(09:31):
easy to like navigate into and find community into, which
gave me access to a lot of people who are
doing really cool things.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So I'm curious you were telling us a bit about
entering the world of puppy play. When were you like, Oh,
this is a community or rather in affinity groups that
I'm very interested in being a part of or participating with.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
I was at work am I doing my barista job
in Brooklyn, as people do, and I met a pop
and I was interested, and then he invited me to
come hang out. And what attracted me to the whole
thing immediately was like the sense of like playful brotherhoodness,
Like I you know, it wasn't an accident that I
ended up being an addict, Like my whole life is
(10:11):
filled with like me escaping myself, me being awkward and
young and not able to like handle the world as
it was, And so it was like an I the
connection of it was like rid is here to like
pretend to be dogs with each other, you know, like
there's really nothing. The whole point is that I don't
have to worry about if this person likes me, or
if I have to pay bills or if you know,
(10:32):
I can put on a hood and kind of like
block out the rest of the world and just like
snuggle and cuddle and wrestle with some other people. And
it was just so energizing, you know, to just be
in this like freeing space. Like it was the first
time I really felt like I gave myself permission to
like let go of who I was and that I
could be like something completely I made up, you know,
(10:54):
And that's like so much of my journey and so
many things they do is that like how can I
give myself permission to have this ence and allow myself
to enjoy it if I if I do enjoy it,
because sometimes I don't always, But it was the first
one I was just like, oh, this clicked.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know.
Speaker 5 (11:08):
It's not like I'm only into pet play and that's
the only thing I do. Like, there's so many things
that cross over, like as meeting Rubber Pops and getting
into like like power dynamics with then pop play, which
can be like more soft on rather than hard depending
everyone's different. I'm not going to speak on anyone's behalf,
but people, there was just so much crossover that just
kept me coming back, you know, and kept me interested
in what the scenes could look like. Uh and and
(11:31):
that just got me more knowledge, more integrated until suddenly,
like a friend was like, you realize you're the inside,
you know. I was like, oh, you know, like as
I always envisioned myself as someone on the outside trying
to get in, and they're like, no, actually, you're the
person on the inside. And I just started doing events,
you know, and that just led to one thing, led
to the next thing, led to the next thing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
How much does sex play a part in pet play? Yeah,
it depends.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
What's interesting is that there's a pretty decent like a
sexual community in the pop world that crosses often not
always with like furries as well. Like there's a lot
of shared interest there. Unleashed, which is the peblic party,
is specifically about how many ways can we get you
in the headspace and a shared experience. We actually make
(12:16):
space and Unleashed for asexual pops until midnight, there's certain
areas where you know you're not going to see genitals
out where you know you're not going to see sex
explicitly happening. And there are people who come for that
hang out and want to socialize, be a puppy in
the marsh, and then when midnight hits, they go, i'll
see you later, thanks for the party, have a good one.
And the people who want to have sex do And
that can look in so many, so many different ways.
(12:37):
Right did you say mash Yeah, mash like a like
a mashpit. No, okay, that's yeah. This is the way
I define a marsh is think of taking your dog
to the dog park. So it's a space that's provided
with mats, and people come with like their gear and
(12:57):
they go into like dog headspace or whatever animal that
person might be, and you play, you know, so you
can play with a trainer like me, or you can
play with other dogs, you play with toys. You can
just sleep in the corner and do nothing, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I know. I was like, if if I went, I
think that'd be me. Yeah, I'd be the sleepy puppy
for sure.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
It's an opportunity to allow like the one and one
play between like a trainer or a handler and a pet.
Except in a social context.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Do you feel like folks show up to these events
with like a partner and a pre established dynamic or
do you ever have like handlers and pups or pets
meet at these events and kind of like navigate the
powerplay dynamic with each other in real time, like.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Showing up independently and right cool?
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, both cool. But there's a shortage of
handlers that gives a shortage of tops, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And I love this. Brooklyn is really down.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Where are the doms at?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I know I have become a verse by accident.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Everyone's like, you're just so short, and I was like, fine,
I'll do both, and here we are.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
Yeah, of course, I mean I love a short.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Top, I know'd.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, So it's a mix.
Speaker 5 (14:19):
Like some people have a pre established dynamic and they come,
but a lot of people don't. There's a lot of
straight dogs out there and a lot of people who
are interested in what puppy play is. I think it's
cute or like they like some of the light subdom
potential that's in it, but they don't really know how
to enter into it. So it's like a good opportunity
to like see people meet people, to see what's going on,
(14:41):
and depending on the space, like how far are they
getting the negotiating that. Like, I've definitely had an experience
of like fascination in Boston where I met a dog
I didn't I didn't even see their face until like
later in the night, like they were there, and I
started like playing with them as a handler, and it
was just like I got to go handler headspace, you know,
(15:01):
where I was just like taking care and playing and
giving commands and like just seeing the level of obedience
and had to like improve their performance. And I was
just like so into it. And I had not met
that person prior to that, And so there's opportunities kind
of come up in the space from the play side
as well as like, well, all this horny is fun.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
What's so interesting to me is that like, as we're
making room for people who are interested in kinks but
not sex, there's also space for that, particularly with PEP play, right,
that it is more about these dom sub dynamics as
they manifest socially rather than like, oh, this is going
to be something where I'm like penetrating you by the end,
which maybe you are right, but the fact that the
there's a spectrum of possibilities. There's really interesting for me
(15:42):
because I always assumed I was like, oh, kinks are
involved sex and sexual activity.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Yeah, I mean I think pep play is like anything else.
Like I mean there's a dom who I play with
an impact who I am not sure he's ever penetrated me,
you know, Like the scene is purely about the impact
and the power. I mean to drink his piss.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So that's but there's some exchange.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
But it's it's not about the penetration. It's not about
the orgasm. It's like literally like what we're there to do,
you know, And it's about the dynamic, what's happening, how
we're present for each other, where we can take each
other and pet plays no different than that, and so
like yeah, like for me, like my idea of a
treat is going to be my dick or my toes
or my calm or my butt or some kind of
(16:29):
sexual thing.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
That's me.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
I'm a very sexual person. But some people just want
like Scooby snacks, you know, or some people want like
a chew toy, And that's completely valid sufficient you know
what I mean, it doesn't it's just like what anyone's
seeking to gain from that experience and what gives them
like satisfaction and joy, because like that's what's like. Pet
play is so fun and silly, because it's like what
(16:53):
would give you joy, Like what would make you be
like good boy and be like fuck, yes, I wanted
this so much. It's completely open, and it could be
in distinct to the person or the pup or pet
who wants it.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I feel like pep play has become more visible for
me recently. I don't know if that's a mean thing
or if it's like a true phenomenon that more people
are exploring it. But I do see a lot of
pup masks in public, and obviously they're.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Like at the gym truly yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Walking around Brooklyn, like at the Eagle.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
I think puppy has blown up so much for a
few reasons. One is COVID, like people are locked up instapups,
you know, became a thing. People are like, this is
a cute visual aesthetic. I can get any color I
want from a whole bunch of leather brands and be
cute and fun and sexy, and that's valid, you know.
And so I think that brought up in the public
(17:43):
eye a lot more. In addition, it doesn't have the
kind of stigmas that as I feel like the fetish
world has like embraced inclusivity around race, gender sexuality, that
you know, there's no if you're a boy, it's like
a very specific thing. It's like a handbook, this is
you be boy, and you can of course, you make
(18:05):
it your own and you shift it. But with pop
it's so much more open ended, and I think that
a lot of people are attracted to the ability to
have their own agency, even within a scene that might
be pre arranged. That's why I'm like proud to be
a part of the leather community, you know, because people
are adapting and changing and with the times. I'm cautious
sometimes when I use the word healing, because I think
(18:26):
people need to go to therapy, people need to figure
out their systems of recovery and whatever that means in
many different ways.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
King should not be like your only go to.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
But kink does have a power to heal, and it
has the power to like reenact and retransform like these
narratives that we have with each other and ourselves and
so like it's just cool shit.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Also, Chipper, thank you again.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
For joining us. This has been so much fun.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Where can folks find you online if they want to
come to Unleashed or any of your other events.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
The best way to find me personally is follow chipper
that's on all of my things. Unleashed is Unleashed to
be on Instagram. You can check it out there. We
have another party I think August ninth, second Friday of August.
It's going to be a fun time, good summer time.
And then we're doing a beach trip the next day,
actually to Gunnisan, which.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Is gonna be Are you driving or taking the Faiy Fairy? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Okay, so sorry ignorant question. But if you take your
pet to the beach and it's a nude beach, do
they keep the mask on or is it like a
we're out of pet play gear for the day.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
Here's a little tidbit. To be a puppy or any
kind of pet, you don't require anything except for what's
up here.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Okay, I like that.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
On that note, as we find our inner pups, we're
gonna take a break when we come back. Film Maker
journalists and kingster Donald Trorter Junior talks about his kink
journey Daddy's and navigating kink spaces as a person of color.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Moresnith these cruis and confessions.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
After the break, Shipperson, be a good cup, you makee
good upissic. Oh yeah, Shipperson, jump through this hoop. I
know that you can do it. Scritches and treats. Ah
(20:18):
that scritches in streets. Scritches and treats.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Scritches and treats.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
That was Scritches and Treats by Chris Conde, the Rapper Now.
Our next guest is a self described leather boy with
a passion for Daddy's one I can certainly share. Donald
Shorter is a multidisciplinary artist whose work explores identity and
seeks to answer the question can my body be free?
His creative practice involves exploring leather culture, sex, and identity.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Donald has danced with world renowned professional dance companies, and
his film and performances have been presented all over the world.
He's also a kink educator who teaches workshops to empower
other leather boys like himself. Please welcome, My Good and
Donald Shorta Jr.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
I love.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Make this boy feel so special. It's truly our expertise here. Yeah,
thank you all for having me.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Do you remember the first time you saw kinker feathers
represented in the mainstream media.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:16):
I think my obsession with leather started when I saw
the Police Academy films, And there's a scene that happens
in all of sort of the franchise where they go
to the Blue Oyster, And in the Blue Oyster it
is a gay bar full of guys in bluff which
is like full on leather regalia, like mirror caps, like jackets,
(21:40):
like vests, leather pants, boots, and they dance the tango. Yeah,
it's like that's like the bit, right, And I just
remember being a young kid and seeing that scene and
like always like rewinding it and going back to it.
And that sort of was the first time that I'd
seen leather in film and media and became obsessed with
and like just had an automatic attraction and interest to
(22:03):
like what that world was.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's amazing. Talk to me about the first time you
went to a leather bar. What was that like?
Speaker 6 (22:12):
When I turned twenty one, I was still in college,
but yet sort of a couple of years after, I
moved to Philadelphia, and there is a leather bar in
Philly called the bike stop once again. I just remember
having sort of this like interest in sort of knowing
what was inside of that bar. Was it gonna be
like the Blue Oyster? And so I was so afraid
but yet so intrigued. I didn't have gear, right, so
(22:36):
I didn't feel like I could you know, fit in
with sort of the leathermen that were there, who were
sort of in full bluff or full gear. So yeah,
I did have to sort of like have a lot
of liquid courage to go into these spaces to only
still feel like I just like couldn't fit in, you know.
So there was just a lot of fear and anxiety
around that, you know. But I would, you know, I
(22:57):
would stick around and stay, you know, in my G
and T shirt and hope that you know, a leather
guy would talk to me.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You did you see yourself reflected in that space? I didn't.
Speaker 6 (23:09):
I think now there are a lot of leather spaces
for so many different folks who don't identify as CIS, white, gay,
and male. You know, they're more inclusive leather spaces for
other marginalized folks. But at the time, I didn't, you know,
and I still think there's a lot of work to
do around being able to create leather spaces for the
non sise, white gay men.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
What's interesting You've talked about how the community, at least
visibly from the outside, seemed predominantly white, and leather culture
does involve a lot of regalia as you mentioned that
harkens back to like classic police uniforms and sort of
a kind of like almost militaristic vibe to it, right,
which I think reads very differently to communities of color
than it does white folks. And you've talked about how
(23:52):
spaces for people of color in the leather scene have expanded.
What was it like sort of navigating that early as
a black person of predominantly white space and also seeing
imagery from like law enforcement, Like, how did you sort
of navigate that interest with your comfort?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (24:07):
I think that it wasn't until maybe probably about five
to seven years ago when I really had mentorship and
a lot of access to resources in terms of information
and like I said, mentorship to really start thinking about
what does it mean for me to be a queer
person of color and accessing these communities. You know, I
(24:28):
think so much of what we know to be police
uniforms language, you know, in the BDSM, fetish, king, communities
tools that are used for pain and or pleasure have
a pretty sordid past around racism in the world and
in this country, right, and so there's always that sense
of navigating sort of that history and how I engage
(24:52):
with it. The reason why it is that I'm doing
how do I identify I am a submissive, I am
a leather boy? Right, have to build relationships with dominance
and or subs and or switches to be able to
navigate and BDS and leather fetish and kink and ways
that are safe saying and consensual. What are my boundaries
for me? That does not include race play?
Speaker 7 (25:15):
Right?
Speaker 6 (25:16):
That may be for someone else, but that doesn't that
doesn't connect for me. But knowing that there is an
element of you know, racism, brutality, right, oppression that's connected
to this world, and how I engage with that is
there's a there's an awesome book. I can't think of
it right now, but one of the scholars in the
(25:37):
book talks about sort of like, yes, there are people
who see this as absolutely not that you know, people
of color should not be engaging in leather fetish and
king can be DSM. Her argument is sort of saying that,
how do we honor the history of what this, you know,
connects with, but how can we use these implements, these
(25:59):
tools as tools of empowerment for what it is that
we're seeking, catharsis release, connection, intimacy. So I have to
make sure for me that I've acknowledged right that that
is a part of it. But how can I connect
with people in ways that are safe, staying and consensual, trust,
honesty and communication that will respect my boundaries?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Right?
Speaker 6 (26:19):
So I always say that leather fetish and kink and BDSM,
those experiences for me have been transformative, right like in
a spiritual sense, you know, And they've allowed me to
connect to myself and to someone else in ways that
vanilla sex hasn't. I consistently have to sit with and
(26:42):
answer those questions and then sort of having those experiences,
I continue to find answers and more questions.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
We're like, we have many questions.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Well, yeah, I love this.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I do want to fall up really quickly and ask
about lingo and sort of the vernacular surrounding the leather scene.
You identify as a boy. Could you sort of unpack
what that means in the context of the subdom play
you're talking about and unpack the term for us a bit.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
Yeah, So, I mean I think in the BDSM, leather
fetish king communities, right, there's all of these ways in
which we can identify dom sub switch, alpha, you know, daddy, sir, master, slave, boy,
pop handler.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Being a boy is.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
A category of submissive. That does mean that I am
I have a dominant, and that dominant can be a ser,
can be a daddy. It's an interpersonal relationship and sort
of how I express my submission to that dominant is
going to be up to myself in a dominant. So
I can't sort of say that this is standard across
the board. But there, as a boy, there is an
(27:49):
act of submission or acts of submission that you would
honor your dominant buy and those can include all different
types of protocols that can be public and or private,
and once again, those are negotiated with your dominant. There
is no one way to be a boy, right, It's
not based on it. You know, being a boy isn't
about like age, race, section like, it's just you know,
(28:13):
it's just how you identify and what being a boy
means to me is going to be different from someone else,
and so I think for me, once again, as a boy,
I am looking for dominant. I mostly connect with daddy's
and so in terms of dom sub relationships, I'm very
much connected to the daddy boy dom sub relationship.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I'm wondering, do you have multiple partners or is there
one daddy that you're with and what is he like
if you're interested in sharing, like your dynamic some of
the hardest things you've tried together.
Speaker 6 (28:46):
Yeah, this is like, once again, these are interpersonal relationship,
So what my daddy boy relationship looks like is going
to be far different from what someone else is. I
just want to sort of like put that out there
and say that I think you know my daddy boy relationship.
(29:08):
We don't live in the same city, so I think
being able to maintain the relationship, we've had to find
ways that we can still connect. So that's phone calls
at certain points in the week, FaceTime calls, we'll see
each other at different leather events that happen here in
the country, and sort of being able to live out
our daddy boy relationship in its fullest potential, and that
(29:32):
does include both play and not play right just as
much as we identify as daddy and boy. We're very
much just two people, right, and so that's just an
element of connection that's that's there and is important for
us as well. The daddy boy relationship that I have
once again has been one of the most profound relationships
(29:54):
that I've had, and I have a short documentary called
boys right, And you know, I'll just sort of say that, like,
you know, yes, there is an element of uh, a
lack of intimate relationship with my own biological father who
passed away four years ago that I didn't have, right,
and so being able to explore an intimate relationship with
the dominant who I call daddy has been sort of
(30:16):
very therapeutic for me and very healing. But once again,
just as much as yes, he is my dominant who
I call daddy, he is still a person who I
care for in.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Love deeply, you know.
Speaker 6 (30:28):
So it isn't just I'm not just fetishizing this person
for that sake.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
I want to hear about the hottest scene that you've
ever been involved in? Oh yeah, Oh do I know
the story already promising?
Speaker 2 (30:46):
What am I willing to share? That is the question. No,
I will say that I think for me.
Speaker 6 (30:55):
As I go along in my leather journey, I definitely
do like impact play, so thanking, flogging, and I'm on
both ends of the implement. I will definitely say that
one of the one of the first moments where I
went to a new place in my impact play journey
was with was with Daddy, you know, and you know,
(31:18):
there was a spanking scene that we'd done and sort
of the intention was to to really go to a
place I'd never been before. It was like, when we
can't go anymore, let's keep going, you know. And I'd
never I'd never, I'd never done this before, but like
I just started crying, like I don't there.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Was a c.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I was like, we needed the context and I didn't
know what that was.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
And and so I found that impact play is a
form of catharsis. It's a form of release, and there's
there's so much that I'm able to let go right
And as I continue to go along in my leather journey,
once again setting an intention for a scene, not every
scene is that that is not the you know, And
(32:09):
there's certain people that I won't go to that place with,
but there are a couple of people who I will
and it's it's just, yeah, it can get really intense.
I will say that I've seen some very intense scenes
of people who've been single tailed.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
And what is that.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
I'm just a single tail is a it's a it's
a form of a whip that just sort of has
a really a really long sort of tail that then
has like a little sort of like not at the
end of it.
Speaker 6 (32:40):
And you know, and so I've seen I've seen people.
One of my mentors, that is his expertise, right, he
is a single tale expert, and he was playing with
another friend of ours and I remember watching this scene
and uh, he sort of brought me over behind him.
There's a guy who's standing on a Saint Andrew's cross, right,
(33:01):
and this guy wanted to as the sub wanted to
like push and it was not easy for a lot
of people to watch. And so I remember sitting back
and my mentor brought me over and like this guy's
back was like hamburger me like blood everywhere. Trigger warning.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I grew up Catholic that that happened once a year
in mass all right, that was we had the reenactments.
I feel like that might have been my introduction to
the BDSM community. It was Catholicism. We love a good
flock literature.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
And it was really intense to see but also really
powerful to see that two people were able to connect
in a way of I'm able to take you there,
and I want you to take me there. And at
a certain point in the scene, my mentor brought me
over to the bottom and sort of said, like, this
is where I'm aiming for on his back, and this
(33:59):
is what is doing now. You know, who knows, maybe
in seven to eight years I may be that person
who is doing that. And I've had that one on
one experience through that, right, I felt their power and
energy exchange through that. It was unlike anything I'd ever
experienced in my life. And it was so powerful and
(34:22):
beautiful to be able to be in that space and
that they let me be in that space. Many people
kind of came around and saw what was happening and
they couldn't take it. But once again, they both were
consenting to go on that journey together and to know
that they will be taken care of afterwards. Right, And
that's a great point. Right, So as much of it
is about that is always about consent and creating a
(34:46):
container through which we say this is how, this is
what we're going to navigate, this is where I want
to go. This is a safe word that we can
utilize so that if I reach a point for whatever,
that we use this word and every think stops. It's over,
no questions asked. And a part of them sort of
the negotiation process is saying that we will have aftercare.
(35:08):
Now what aftercare looks like for for people? Once again,
these are interpersonal relationships. They're going to vary, right, so
that there is aftercare.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, I appreciate that. And also you walking us through this.
I mean again, from the outside, what we get is
like the blue oyster tango right y yeah, or you
go into the egle and you see someone getting flogged
in a corner, or even orders. I've been to straight
bars in Florida where they're like people come in and
they're like little cages and there's like a dancer that
will flog you and everyone's like, ooh, I'm gonna get flogged. Right,
(35:38):
It's like this idea that it's like the leather scene
is something you can just jump into, and you can.
But I think what you're talking about right when you
start developing these dynamics and you start veering toward impact play.
It's I think it's crucial for people to realize that
there is a lot of boundary setting and conversations happened
before and care that happens after.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
It's like navigating this oscillation between pain and pleasure really
does take an emotional connection and a level of trust
that I think those outside the community might not understand.
So I'm curious, what is maybe the most important piece
of advice you could give a young person who might
be wanting to explore their kinks and is interested in
the leathers scene.
Speaker 6 (36:18):
Yeah, especially I'm you know, I grew up at a
time as a young gay man prior to the Internet existing, right,
So being able to find communities you know, was really hard.
You sort of had to be on the know, and
if you did not fit a certain look right, then
you weren't gaining access, right, especially being a leather person
of color. So I think now there's all of these
(36:41):
digital communities and spaces where people which people can access
to find out or to connect, right, And I think
for me, first things first, vet people like, yes, you know,
have fun, right and your leather exploration, but that people right,
don't just rush into wanting to do a scene with
(37:03):
someone and you don't know this person. You don't know
what their values are, you don't know what their interests are,
you don't know what their intent is. Right, So VET
people to make sure that they are safe and that
you can once again play in ways that are safe,
staying and consensual. Right, So automatically get references if you
go on I don't know if I won't say any
other website names, but if you go on to like,
(37:26):
let's say a website that is primarily focused for BDSM,
leather fetish and kink, and you see that that person
doesn't have any friends and they're wanting X, Y and
Z from you, and you know, so VET people, you know,
I would say, find community of other people who have
the lived experience, who are respectable within the community. So
(37:48):
and then the third one is to have fun. You
know that that there are I've learned many lessons and
I continue to learn and grow as a leather person
and maybe from setbacks or failures or mistakes, you know,
you hope they don't cost you too much. But that's
the way in which which I've been able to grow.
But to have fun Donald.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
You're also an amazing filmmaker, and now you're starting to
make film around your leather fetishing kink experience. Talk to
me about those films and where can we find them.
Speaker 6 (38:17):
Yeah, I a lot of my work as an artist
is autobiographical, and so it's a great way for me
to process the way in which I experienced the world.
And so I ended up creating a short film called
State of Mind, and it's I'm so blown away by
sort of how successful it's been. It's really sort of
(38:38):
a poetic visualization of how I experience BDSM. It is ceremony,
it is ritual. What does it mean to sort of
start a scene by having the dom place the collar on?
How do you sort of position yourself to show loyalty,
to show surrender, to show submission. And it was a risk,
(38:59):
but it so well received, you know. And so right
now it's on streaming online the Hump Film Festival. They
have a streaming library, so it's there, and we're also
in deals. We're also in the works for another licensing deal.
In the very early stages of this film, and you
and I were talking about it and you were staying
on my couch. That's filming and you have showed me
(39:21):
the first edit and I just remember thinking this is
so beautiful and so intimate. Yeah, I think that for
me because there is such an element of danger and
risk and sort of these more sort of type of
fringe play as we call it, where it's maybe breath
control or maybe there you know, there is a flogg
(39:42):
or there's impact there at bondage, right, Like, there's all
these ways in which I think you have to extend
care for the person that you're with, maybe more so
than what you might do in a dark room.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Right.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
So when I'm connecting with someone, I think connection is
is the most important word. I need to be able
to trust you. I want to feel a connection, right
because I am submitting to you. Maybe I don't have
vision or maybe I can't hear, right, So I need
to know that for wherever we go in the scene,
that you will protect me and that we have that
(40:18):
element of power exchange leather sex. To me, that's that
was that sort of sense of connection was profound and
new and something that I hadn't experienced in my vanilla
sex life. And that's where this this radical sense of
spiritual connection and transformation has taken place.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Thank you so much for joining us today, Donald.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
For having me, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
It's been such a pleasure to get to share this
platform with you and hear more about your journey. And
it's been really phenomenal to watch as a friend and
someone I can consider family to sort of like watch
you grow into the boy that you are today.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, where can people find you?
Speaker 6 (41:01):
You can find me on Instagram at d O n
x M men, don x men. You can find my
work on the Tom of Finlin website. You can also
find some of my work over at Drummer Magazine. There's
a couple of new issues that are out that I'm
a part of, And I was an artist in residence
at the Tom of Finland Foundation this past fall and
(41:22):
so I'm still connected with the foundation, so please go
check them out. There's such a deep history and so
much that's archived and so much new representation for the
home eerotic arts that are happening in the world today.
So you can check me out at over on those platforms.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I love that. Fantastic Thank you again, Donald.
Speaker 8 (41:44):
I just want nice let's sets and so sweet and
it's a city one more beyond I don't want to
be a good bye anymore. I don't want to be
a good bye anymore.
Speaker 7 (42:01):
I just want to next.
Speaker 8 (42:03):
So you just set send the outspeed and next.
Speaker 7 (42:08):
More bed.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I don't want to be a big anymore.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
You just heard I don't want to be a good
boy anymore. By Vince the Alien. This episode has been
super enlightening. Can you tell me something that you learned
so much?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I mean, you know, obviously I have friends in the
leather scene, but I you know, I've known they've identified
as like switches, bottoms, daddies boys, but I've never really
kind of interrogated the dynamics and conversations that take place
in establishing these roles and thinking about how much they switch, right,
I mean, we're having this conversation when comes to tops
(42:43):
and bottoms.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
It's like, I don't know, it depends on the day
and my mood. Right.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Obviously, there's a little more work in terms of cultivating
these relationships, but I'm just so curious about how the language,
both spoken and unspoken, continues to evolve and change on
a personal level, on a community level.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
I'm want to thank our guest today, pup Chipper and
my good friend Donald Shoulders Jr.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is a production of the Outspoken podcast
Network from iHeart Podcasts. It's directed by Adam Barron, produced
by Stevie Williams and Cameron Femino, and executive produced by
Eli Martin. Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's, the ultimate
map based cruising platform for gay, by and curious people
ready to cruise. Check out the map at Sniffy's dot
(43:25):
com and follow Sniffy's on socials at Sniffy's app.
Speaker 7 (43:28):
Put job, put put Joe, put put Joe put up
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!