July 17, 2025 • 35 mins
The 2012 FDA approval of PrEP as a tool for HIV prevention gave HIV-negative queers anxiety-free access to the sexual freedoms of the 1970s. But writer Daniel Sanchez Torres says PrEP didn’t exactly make things easier for HIV positive folks who still face stigma, rejection, and fetishization from HIV negative folks. In this episode Chris, Gabe and Daniel discuss the varied impacts of PrEP and U=U on their sex and cruising experiences. Then, a listener shares a cruising confession about an encounter that has our hosts very, very afraid…
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offense your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer
discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Put your pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
put your pussy up, put you, put your pussy up.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm Gabeln Sadez and.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm christtison Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime world
of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We talked to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
practical advice that you can use at home. Put joy,
put your put yo, pussy, put jo, put put your put.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Put your puts up.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So Gabe, yes, Chris, do you remember the first time
you heard about prop Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, the year was nineteen fifty two.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
No. I.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
One of my first jobs out of college was editing
for a gay porn studio. My boss was HIV positive,
and he told me that he had just learned that
PREP had been improved by the FDA in twenty twelve,
and he was undetectable. And he had sort of explained
to me what you equals you is undetectable equals untransmissible. Right.
If somebody who's HIV positive is taking their medications regularly
(01:24):
and being treated, they're undetectable and therefore they cannot transmit
HIV to you. And this all started because I had
had a hookup with someone who was HIV positive and
so despite the fact that it was perfectly safe for me,
whatever that means for you, right, I was like kind
of anxious about it. My boss he was like, oh, well,
you know you can get on PREP and I had
never heard about it. So I started like serving the
(01:45):
porn performers we would work with. I'd be like, hey,
are you a PREP?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Have you tried it? Like ah ah, where'd you get it?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
About this?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Like I was literally every girl and they were like, yes, girl,
I've been on it for six months. Like it changed
the game. And it was so funny because at the
time I was working.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
For a bareback or condomless studio.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Usually there would be testing and you know, talent would disclose,
but often there were zero discordant couples or groups being
paired on camera, so they all were very aware of
what PREP was. And you know, this is also the
era when a lot of porn studios, folks like Michael
Lucas or folks like Larry Kramer, were very negative about PREP. Right,
this was very early days, and a lot of the
(02:24):
data that was coming out was being questioned, you know,
sometimes without reason, and a lot of these scare tactics
that people hold on to, and a lot of the
fear that people was going to hold on too from
the nineties and early two thousands still kind of impacted
the perception. So I literally, I think until the age
of sixteen or seventeen, I thought you just magically got
HIV if you had condomless sex with another gay man.
So very grateful to the porn world because they gave
(02:48):
me the education that no teacher in Florida did and
very few of my friends could have at the time. So, Chris,
how about you, I'm very curious when did you learn
about PREP and has it impacted the sort of sex
ring or the sort of partners you seek out in
your life.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, so I didn't hear about PREP for a long time.
I am HIV positive. I have been since two thousand
and five. I didn't hear about it because, like, my
doctor is not gonna tell me about product because like
I don't.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm it's it's too late.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Okay, this is our Angels in America audition right now.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It was too late.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I started using Crystal method having sex round the same time,
and so there wasn't a lot of conversations around safer
sex and those spaces, and so for six years from
the time I started having sex, and so the time
I tested positive, I knew that I was engaging in
risky behavior and I just didn't care. I did have
a really good friend and he worked in HIV care.
(03:46):
So like one day he like shows up to my
apartment and he was like, we're gonna go get you
tested and got the results.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
My friend immediately clocked it.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Like I was in there for a while because like
I had a compleat eat breakdown. Yeah, I remember really
feeling alone because I didn't have people.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
The first year or so was really really, really difficult.
But yeah, I didn't really hear about PREP for a while.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Honestly, I couldn't really tell you when the first time
I heard about it was and what the context was
it might have been on an app. From the beginning,
was always very clear that like, IMHIV positive and like
if you're cool with that or you're not, I'm not
going to waste time.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Like if you're going to reject me, then to reject me.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There are plenty of people in New York that I
can fuck, and like for a while there there was
a lot of like sero sorting. You know, I was
only hooking up with other HIV positive people just because
there was like less to like worry about.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Wow. Yeah, And I'm sure there must have been a
i don't know, very difficult time to also engage with
trying to find sexual partners or dating partners. You still
got this like post nineties like scare right, everybody's like,
oh my god, but it's like pre prep right. So
it's like a lot of headway had been made in
terms of treatment, in terms of medication that HIV positive
people could take to live long, healthy lives, but it
(05:07):
just felt like the knowledge and the grace and the
accuracy was still lacking. Yeah, it is to this day.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I mean, and there were still people dying from its
related like in the early two thousands, Let's be clear,
Like people were still dying from the disease, like, and
that is a thing that I think a lot of
folks kind of forget. And the way that we engage
around treatment is different today than it was back then
to Like when I first tested positive, they didn't give
me medication right away. They said that your numbers were
(05:36):
good enough, your viral lod isn't crazy high, so we're
not going to put you on any medication.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Which is not the way that they treat the disease
today today.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Like you test positive, you're on medication immediately because we
want to get you to the U equals you.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Oh yeah, the word undetectable wasn't something that entered my
vocabulary until shortly before I found out about PREP.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah. It was twenty twelve when the FDA approved the
use of PREP, medication that was already being used to
keep HIV positive people undetectable as a tool to prevent
HIV transmission and serial conversions.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
During its early year. Its prop was controversial, to say
the least, because it up ended the established approach to
safer sex, which prioritize condoms above all else.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Most of the conversations surrounding PREP has focused on its
impact on HIV negative.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
People, but PREP had an impact on queers living with
HIV two and today we're going to have that discussion.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
We're going to look back on thirteen years of PREP
exploring how it's changed the lives and sexual behaviors of
both HIV positive and negative people. It's time to meet
our first guest. Daniel Sanchez Torres is a San Francisco
based writer and editor who has covered topics like photography, literature, film, relationships,
HIV and pandemics.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
He's a member of the collective What would an HIV
Doula Do? They create art, informational materials, and engage in
discussions about aspects of HIV care and community.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Most recently, Daniel has written a series of essays about
his history of cruising in the San Francisco Bay Area
with Everything Matters Press called Cruising with the King of Sex.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Welcome to Snippy's Cruising Confessions, The King of Sex, Daniel
Sinja's Daughters.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Hi Daniel, how are you hi?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Hi?
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I should clarify I did not give myself that title.
Somebody else gave me that title, So okay, you know
it's something that I sometimes claim.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm sure you're living up to the responsibility every day though, right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
You know, I worked very, very hard to overcompensate.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Daniel, Before we dive too deep into your title on
how you earned it, I would love to hear a
little bit about Ring Up near San Francisco, which has
a long history, not just as a gay hotspot, but
as a place where a lot of important strides were
made in HIV, AIDS activism and community care.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
It's this weird thing, like I grew up in the
Bay Area. It's super open, it's super queer. It has
its history. But I also grew up like in the suburbs.
The city was thirty minutes away, so it was kind
of this thing of like, oh, it took me a
while to kind of find people that I wanted to
have sex with. Because I like graduated from high school,
(08:02):
I went to community college. I was kind of a
fuck boy, Like I was just kind of having a
good time. And when I was eighteen, I traded my
virginity for HIV, and so I was like with my
mom in the doctor's office and my doctor's telling me
that I'm HIV positive and I'm sitting there like, great,
my mom's in the waiting room, you're telling her.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think that was sort of the big moment of
like me coming out of like if you weren't sure before, Yeah,
this is why I have a pretty positive confirmation that
I am very gay.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I'm wondering if I can ask what your reaction to
that news was, especially given that your mom was in
the waiting room, Like what were your first thoughts and
how did you and your family react to the diagnosis afterward?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So it was terrible timing to get HIV. I mean,
is there ever really a good time? I don't know,
maybe like a spring, but I ended up so converting
like over over the winter holiday. So I had like
graduated from high school at all this summer, and then
I was it was like fucking around during the fall
and I ended up getting like hospitalized. My fever was
(09:09):
so high that they had to put like an ice
blanket on me to just like get my fever to
come down. So that was like super intense, And because
of the holidays, I didn't even get a chance to
see my doctor until the new year, so I kind
of had this feeling of like, oh, I was just sick.
It's fine, it'll be chill. And then when I had
(09:32):
like this follow up appointment with my doctor, I very
distinctly remember like seeing all of these plaques on the
wall of like achievement in HIV studies. And I sat
there looking on all these like plaques and stuff, and
I was like, oh, he might just be giving me
like a stern talking too about like my behavior. And
he walked in and was like, you're HIV positive, and
(09:55):
I was like, oh shit. I still very distinctly remember
that office appointment and that being in that room and
like my mom was freaking out, and my mom like
asked the doctor like you know, like through teary eyes
and like shaking breath, like you know, is he going
to die? And the doctor looked at her and said,
(10:18):
We're all gonna die. That's just really stuck with me.
I have this constant like monologue in my head of like, oh,
we're all going to die, Like we're all going to die.
And my mortality is very much like I'm very aware
of it, and for better or worse, like it leads
me to great decisions. And that's a great decisions because
(10:40):
I'm just like fuck it, yo, know, let's go.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, I kind of wish that I had had someone
to tell my mom that I was HIV positive.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It's really helpful. That's my advice. If you're trying to
be positive, get somebody else.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So, like I was out of the country for like
four months, like as I was zero converting, and like
it was horrendous. I'm nineteen years old, I'm on tour.
I'm going to have a conversation with my parents.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
You come back from a tour and your mom's like,
what'd you bring me in? And You're like, I got
you told me to have a positive experience.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
She came around, but it took some time. I know,
a lot of conversations. She watched the AIDS epidemic happen
and was really terrified for what that meant for me,
Like when she got more education on the science around it.
Like she came around and she saw me living in
like a very full and healthy life. You know, I
wasn't like sick ever.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Daniel, you have an essay about cruising and your experiences
with HIV called Cruising with the King of Sex. Can
you tell me more about the essay and where this
excellent nickname came from.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Yes, the essay is really just kind of thinking about,
like my history with sex, how HIV has impacted my
relationship to sex, how I've changed as a person. I
do think that sometimes I can be a great person
to have sex with, and it was also thinking about
like why is that? Like why did that happen? A
lot of it was overcompensating for my HIV. I think
(12:08):
a lot of what my headspace was at was like,
if I'm a risky person that have sex with, then
I'm going to do everything I can to make the
risk worth it. And I think that's part of how
I kind of got this title.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I'm curious if I can ask, when you cruise, when
you use the apps, when you meet new folks, how
do you sort of handle the disclosure question?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I mean, I think what's been interesting about cruising is that,
you know, I feel like the core of it and
kind of what makes it fun and what makes it
enjoyable is the anonymity. So like, I'm not having conversations
about my HIV with people, and that requires a little
bit of personal responsibility. I wasn't always comfortable with not
(12:52):
being so open about it, and now I'm just kind
of fine with it because I think it's sort of
to the point of like education and knowing about your
body and knowing about HIV and knowing about these things.
I'm the safest person that you can have sex with.
Like somebody who is HIV positive and on meds and undetectable,
They're not going to give you HIV. I find disclosure
(13:13):
to be like a very intimate thing, and the situations
that I have gotten into that have been complicated have
been sort of the hookups that are not a one
off thing. In those moments and the times that I've
had those conversations, They've always been pleasant and they've always
been fine, And I think it's mostly because they wanted
(13:34):
to keep having sex with me. So I think leading
with really great sex is really helpful for disclosure.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
The way that I disclosed today is different than the
way that I disclosed fifteen years ago. I've been positive
for twenty years now, and the drugs have changed. The
science around you equals you has changed, right, the information
that he has has changed. So in the beginning, every
single person I came in contact with I was disclosing.
Today I have it on my apps. If someone is
(14:02):
like looking at my profile, it is up there. I
talk about it. I say that I'm undetectable. I'm less
likely to have that conversation in the dark room.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
You'll hear Chris saying things in the dark room, but
it won't be about that.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
No, Yeah, I'm usually saying actually in the dark room,
I get called that first singing.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And if you ever hear like humming that sounds like
someone's humming into someone else's butt, that is.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But today, like, yeah, it's just a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I'm only having that disclosure conversation if I'm meeting someone
out and we decide that we're going on a date
or something in that sense, then I'm having like the
disclosure conversation. But outside of that, I don't think I
need to have it unless it's going to be something
like I'm in a romantic situation with you, and I
think it's important that you should know this.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
We talked a lot about how PREP hasn't fundamentally changed
the way you go about your life. But I'm wondering,
if you know, since the FDA approved PREP in twenty twelve,
if you've seen a difference is in the experiences that
you're with partners, when you're hooking up, when you're cruising.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
I do think that PREP has really sort of taken
away the responsibility of people having a conversation about HIV
and about STIs in terms of like a difference. I
don't even know if I would call it a difference,
but just something that I've noticed. The people who are
not going to have sex with me before PREP because
of my HIV are not going to have sex with
(15:23):
me after PREP because of my HIV. I'm just one person,
But anecdotally, I don't really know that PREP has really
done away with stigma as much as it has done
away with having an opportunity to have the conversation. And
you know, at the same time, like I'm not trying
to have a conversation about it either, So it is
kind of a thing that I just sort of had
(15:44):
to accept.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think I have to agree with you on that one, actually,
and I hadn't really thought about it that way until
you said it. But it's true, like I don't think
there are people who are like now that PREP exists,
or like banging down my door to fuck.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know, the drug treatment is not going to magically
dissolve some stigma. If people have grown up with years
and years and years of these like incorrect, inappropriate, like
stigmatized ideas ingrained in their head, that's like community work
that you have to undo.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Right, I do want to like give space to the
folks who are like learning. Hey, I understand that science
is different, right, I understand that, Like the way that
I showed up before was really stupid. Like if they
approach it that way, then like I might give them
a pass.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's also it's so interesting that your experiences are so
different than folks are on PREP. Because a lot of
people online, right, you hear this every now and then
it's like, oh, we're ultimately on the same drugs. It's
like we're all doing the same thing. And it's like, no, no,
the experiences are different.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It's like I might be taking a certain drug for
PREP that somebody else is taking to you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Know, save their lives.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, exactly, but that our experiences are not the same.
It's not that the community is not the same, even
though we might be taking the same drugs.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Yeah for sure. I mean the stakes are incredibly different,
you know. I think especially now, like in this moment,
the things that are being attacked right now are prevention methods.
So this is really sort of a negative people problem
that they need to kind of deal with.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I think sometimes I get this question of like, you know,
what what should we do? Like how do we approach this?
And it's kind of one of those things where it's
like I actually don't know because at this present moment,
my care is not under attack. And I think the
stakes are different too, because you know, for HIV negative people,
like what happens if PREP goes away? You stop having
sex with HIV positive people. Maybe I don't know what
(17:30):
happens if the care for HIV positive people goes away.
It can be a life or death situation. And so
even those situations, like the stakes are different. It's been
an interesting dynamic to be in this position to realize
that like right now, people who are on PREP, they're
the ones that are most at risk in terms of
getting their care taken away. And so I'm curious what
(17:53):
you guys are doing, you know, I'm curious about like
how you guys are motivating each other and what your
community is doing.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I'm curson about your group. What would an HIV doula do?
Can you talk a little bit about the group, How
did you get started? What work do you do?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
So I'm in a group called What we Can HIV
Doula Do. It's a community of people joined in respond
to the ongoing AIG crisis. We really understand adula as
someone who holds space during time to the transition. We
really think about how HIV is a series of transitions
that begin long before getting tested and that continue after
treatment and beyond. We realized that like no one gets
(18:36):
HIV alone, no one should have to live with HIV alone.
And so that's really sort of where the group came together,
foundational to sort of what we do is really just
asking questions. We've made sines that we've done, exhibitions, we've
done public engagement work. It's been a great kind of
group to be a part of, and it's been honestly
kind of a mind fuck in the best way. It
(18:58):
was a very rare experience of being in a room
full of people and having the realization that the people
that I was talking to were like directly responsible for
the fact that I had health care, for the fact
that I had access to meds. They are a lot
more activists than I am I mean, I think I'm
(19:19):
kind of a punk, but they are on a neither level.
So like, I have a lot of respect, I have
a lot of appreciation for them. Going through a pandemic
and now currently living through our current administration. They've invigorated
me and they've been a bridge of knowledge, of inspiration
of hope. I think the thing that I kind of
(19:40):
am always in tension with is I'm not interested in
being an activist. I'm not interested in being like a
cautionary tale. Like I really honestly believe that, like my
life has been amazing partly because of HIV, and that's
not to say that my life hasn't been shitty also
because of HIV. I mean, I live in in the
United States and we have our shitty healthcare system. So
(20:03):
I think that's really sort of where I kind of
entered the group.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I'm wondering how much PREP has had an impact on
your organization and the work that y'all are doing.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
The people in the group are really activated around protecting
PREP and around protecting healthcare. I don't want to limit
it to just PREP, and I don't want to limit
it to just HIV. I think what's been interesting about
the group is that we have people from so many
different kind of activist groups bringing a lot of ideas
and thinking and experience to the table. To have a
(20:33):
group like that who has experienced is really kind of
nice to kind of see and be on the sidelines,
especially as I see a lot of them activate to
protect prep and make sure that people who are HIV
negative can stay negative.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's exciting to hear too. I mean, I feel like
post pandemic. There's also been this resurgence in the visibility
of ACT up in New York. But that's another organization
that I think growing up, I always associated with the nineties,
and they're still here and they're still doing stuff surrounding ACTS.
It's so encouraging to hear that there are groups everywhere
kind of like breaging that connect. Right, we can sort
of continue the work and hope to make this world
(21:09):
a little better than it was when we entered it.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
We're not starting from zero here, right, And I think,
I mean, I go through this all the time where
I'm just kind of like, fuck, what am I gonna do?
This is like completely new to me. How am I
subouted to navigate this? And then to like be reminded
that there are people out there doing the work, and
I think kind of the best thing that you can
do is go find those people first. Oh yeah, go
find the people that are already doing the work and
(21:31):
connect with them and figure out what they're going to do.
They'll have better answers than I do.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, So I have to ask It's kind of a
controversial question, but I have to ask you this question,
just past person a pause, person, how do you feel
about bug chasing and the phenomenon that is.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Girl leave me alone? Every time I got a bug
chaser in my DM, first of all, I realize they're
mostly always white, always, And then my second thought is
usually like, damn, your healthcare is that good? You want
(22:06):
to get a disease that's a pain in the ass
of paperwork and also like a fundamental misunderstanding of you
know how HIV works, Like, bro, we're all undetectable. You're
not getting it from any of us. I don't know
what to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, so I normally just block them because like, I'm
not doing this with you. I don't need to engage
with you. I'm not doing an education.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yeah, this definitely is like one of those fantasies that like,
I'm not trying to go down that road. This is
not the fantasy I'm trying to live.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
No, it's not. It's also I already have it, so
it's like, I.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Don't know, I am already living the fantasy.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It's cute gift, but like, we don't wish you with.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Me in this economy.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, you know, returns no exchanges.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Sorry, baby, we should shift some gears.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
We should years. All right, let's get a little more anecdotal.
Since you were nicknamed the King of Sex. What is
one of the wildest, craziest, maybe most memorable hookup stories
you've ever had during your years in the Bay Area.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Oh my god. In the last year or two, there
was this guy who like hit me up on Sniffy's
and he was like, Hey, i'm working late. I'm at
this gas station, Like just come in, Oh, take out
your dick at the counter and if I like what
I see, then you can fuck me in front of
the I was like, oh okay. And at the time
(23:31):
while this was happening, I was also texting another guy
and I was like, Hey, I don't think it's going
to work out. I'm about to go meet this dude
maybe next time, and he was like, can I come watch?
And I was like sure. So I walked into this
gas station in the middle of the night, took my
dick out at the counter. The guy looks at it
and he goes, great, the manager's off, it's that way,
(23:53):
and I was like, cool, leave the door open. My
friend is coming, and he was like awesome. So we
go to the manager's office. He's sucking my dick, he's,
you know, going to town. And then all of a sudden,
I hear the door open and this guy walks in
and he walks into the manager's office and he just
starts jacking off and watching me fucking and I like,
(24:14):
turn him around. I put him on the manager's chair.
I'm like fucking him in the chair like it was great.
I had a great time. I did wake up with
a giant bruise on my thigh because of how hard
I was like slamming into the chair that he was in.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Maybe sometimes you gotta put your whole puss into it,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
I mean, they don't call me the King for nothing. Yes,
I told you I'm gonna make it worth it.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I'm sorry that you organized a sex show as somebody
else's place of work. And I'm kind of gag because, like,
what if the guy that walked in wasn't even when
you were texting? What if it was just like a
random client that came in and decided to drink off
with you all on the manager who knows. That's really beautiful.
That's community. That is community community. So you see, like
a very beautiful anecdote To end our interview on before
(25:03):
we let you go, could you please tell us where
listeners can find you and read more of your writing.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
The best place to find me is be on my
newsletter set DST slash newsletter. That's sup dst dot com.
I'm also begrudgingly on Instagram at sut underscore at DST,
and my Then the Cruising Diaries can be found with
Everything Matters Press, So that's Everythingmatters dot Press, slash shop.
(25:29):
Pick it up and find out how I became the King.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I guess amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
All right, when we come back, we're gonna give you
a refresher course on the different varieties of prep that
are on the market and in the pipeline.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So stay with us, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So in this act, Chris and I will be talking
about all the forms of PREP that are currently available
and some of the forms of PREP that are coming
soon to a pharmacy or a doctor's office near you.
So the first of the approved methods for taking PREP
that we want to talk about is the daily prep,
and this one might be the one that is most
familiar to you.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
It is the pill that you take once a day,
every day, regardless of what, whether you're having sex or not.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Ideally you're going back every three months for refills as
well as HIV and STI testing with your doctor.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Now, once a day prep is not the only way
you can take PREP. You can also take PREP on demand.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
So prep on demand is also known as the two
to one one method or the intermittent prep. And this
one's a little trickier because you are taking pills on
a schedule.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
You want to take two pills two to twenty four
hours before you have sex. Then you take one pill
twenty four hours after the first is and one more
pill forty eight.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Hours after the first.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Since the two one one two before you have sex,
one after, and one two days after. If you continue
having sex, you can keep taking one pill every twenty
four hours, but you'll have to take two pills after
you last had sex, so one twenty four hours after
you do, and another forty eight hours after that. Now,
for folks who don't like taking pills, there is now
injectable prep.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
This is fairly new.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
So this is one shot in the butt and it
happens once every two months.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
It is important not to miss an injection.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yes, there is a short grace period about one week
in either direction, either one week before the two months
end or one week after that two months. If you
wait too long, the amount of medicine in your body
may fall too low to prevent HIV, but a lot
for mutations. This is the same thing that happens when
you're missing enough of your daily prep two months.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Injectible prep is just the latest advancement in prep. But
soon there should be an injectible prep that you only
have to get injected every six months.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
And that works by two subcutaneous injections in the abdomen
once every six months.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Not as fun as in the butt, but it is
very effective.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
All right.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So we've covered the forms of prep that exists now,
but there are also so many that are in the
research pipeline.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
There are things like microboside gel, vaginal rings, depositories, foams, etc. Now,
before we close today's episode, let's hear some listeners submitted
cruising confessions from our Horny Colin hotline.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yes, my favorite tradition. I'm so excited. It's great.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
So I was home for Christmas in this tiny town
out in the desert, and I was desperate together of
the house and stuck some dick and I remembered that
at this party in Brooklyn, I hooked up with this hot,
handsome Santo looking daddy from my hometown. So I was
talented him on Facebook and he said, well, I can't
bring you home because I've been taking care of my mother.
(28:21):
But if you had found at a party in Brooklyn,
I know there are some people who throw raids out
here in the desert. And I saw some lights up
on the mountain, and maybe we should go up there
and see what's happening, and if there's nothing, we could
just go back to my mind, and I kind of
didn't understand exactly what he was saying, and I was like, okay, sure,
And this guy pulls up in front of the house
in his hummer and we start driving up into the
(28:41):
mountains with his enormous car completely filling up this narrow,
winding road, and it feels like at any moment we're
about to plunge over this cliff into the dark. And
he goes up to where he saw the lice and
he says, oh, I didn't see anything. That's weird, Bute.
We should just go back to my mind. I'm like, oh,
you mean, like back to your place, and he's like, no,
my mind is right near here. And he spends like
he owns a mine, like he's mining or and I'm like, oh, okay,
(29:05):
And he stops the car and we get out, and
I say to him, Wow, I'm not getting any signal
on my phone up here. This is just like in
a horror movie where somebody says I'm not getting the
signal up here and then they immediately get horridly murdered.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Pretending like I'm joking, But I say to him, you know,
if I hadn't just had long conversations on the record
with you and several of my friends about my plans
for tonight, I would be scared for my life right now, which,
of course is exactly what I am. Terrified but we
have a good laugh about it. And we walk over
to the entrance to his mind with like the tracks
(29:40):
on the ground for the whole cart and everything, and
he's got like a lantern and I got my phone
light and we go inside and it's literally sleezing coals outside.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
It's a line.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
There's all this geothermal heat and it's warm, way damp.
I'm we go down this narrow passageway into this mine.
It banks on like this platform on the ground. We're
making out it's me and this grizzled prospector in his mind,
and we're getting undressed, and he's got a whole union
suit on under his clothes, with like a trapdoor seat
(30:14):
and everything, and I'm eating his ass. Well, he's sucking
my dick, and then I'm sucking this white bearded daddy
up the ass on the floor of his mind. And
it's incredibly hot, this crazy fantasy. And we come and
he did not try to murder me at all. We
just had an amazing time up in his mind. And
(30:35):
then he drives me back home to my parents' house.
And that's my crazy story.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Okay, no, what do you mean You're picking me up
on a hummer.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
First of all, red flag number one. Red flag number
one is the hummer.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You're picking me up a armor?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Okay, good part of the story. You had met this
person before, so like you already knew that they were
likely not a murderer. Again, you never know. So we
have the hummer. Yeah, and then we have the driving
up the narrow path. I'm gonna be honest, I think
the rave was a pretext.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
I won the rave.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh my mind, happens to be next to this ray? Like, girl,
how many mines are there in the desert? And also
what were the oars? What are you mining? Are these
precious materials that we should not be mining? Is this
a kin to fracking? I need to know, yes, this
is this a victimless mine? I mean it's a hummer,
So I think we get Yeah, maybe he said fuck
the environment and my ass.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Now they are making electric ones now Okay, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I'm also like, okay, when I think of mines, I'm like, oh,
a corporation runs a mine. A corporation runs a mine.
This man's treating this like his bachelor pad. He's like, oh,
the people come in, Yeah, they clink on the rocks
and then when they leave, I bring out my blanket
platform and I like what And.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It must be a fantasy for him because he obviously
going to afford a hotel. Girl.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, if you own a mine and a hummer, you
could have three houses. That's the thing he likes, fucking
in the mind. Yeah, that's why the rave was a pretext,
because he's like, it sounds creepy when I email somebody,
let's fuck.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
In my mind. And then he goes back to his mother.
Right then he goes.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Back to his mother, the previous owner of the mine.
I'm assuming because how else do you fucking get a
mine unless you inherit it from your family?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Just like a mind.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, once you go to an estate sale, be like, oh,
this mine looks great to fucking I this is one
of the most like, like, honestly, everything in my body
is like no, no bad idea. But it also sounds
kind of funny and really hot. You Yeah, you're sixty
nine ying the owner of the mine. I lost it
at the lantern. I was like too much, too much.
(32:33):
I I this is weird. What kind of role play
are we in right now? I've needed a story to
make me feel something. This is the most I've felt
in I am I'm like thrilled, I'm scared, I'm angry,
I'm I'm dubious, I'm a little turned.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
On us dubious.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Okay, Wow, so we fucked in a mine. We've been
told about fucking of mine with the Union suit and
then I bet it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
But I bet I have a little bits the butt flat.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, that's some snow white and the seven Dwarves ass shit.
I can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
If you want to hear your own cruising infession an
upcoming episode of this podcast, you can call our Cruising
Confession hotline at three zero two two one nine three
eight nine eight. That is three zero two two one
nine three eight nine eights.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Okay, so we're at the end of this episode. We've
had an incredible guest. How are you feeling after this episode?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I love this episode and I'm really glad that we
got to do this episode because I think that it
has been thirteen years, but I think there are still
a lot of conversations that can be had right and
sort of talking about the impact not only on the
folks who are HIV negative, but those of us who
are HIV positive.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, I'm really excited we got to talk about it
specifically from this perspective because I think a lot of
the conversations or the ads or the TV programming we
see that involves PREP always has an HIV negative person involved,
and a lot of panels and conversation I've been to
publicly about PREP usually center HIV negative folks, and I
love that we were able to talk to Daniel and
to you as well about how PREP has impacted HIV
(34:10):
positive folks because in some cases it's like, well, hasn't
changed much, but in other cases it has changed quite
a bit.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
One of the things I think we didn't really like
name it specifically, but the conversation around shame around HIV.
Daniel and I have showed you like the lack of
shame that we have, but I think that there has
been a shift in the perception around HIV and the
shame that folks who are experiencing around it.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I think, I think, in my experience.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I want to think our guest Daniel Sanchez Torres. You
can subscribe to his newsletter Rough Drafts at sup dst
dot com, Backslash newsletter, or order his new essay on
Cruising at Everything Matters dot Press, backslash Shop. He's also
on Instagram at sub sup Underscore, dst. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions
is directed by Adam Barron, produced by Amanda Keuper and
(34:54):
Cameron Femino, and executive produced by Eli Markin.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Cruising Confessions is present by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
cruising platform.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We're gay by incurious people ready to cruise.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Check out the map at snippies dot com and fall
snitches at snippis app.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Cruisers are a community. Do your part in keeping us safe.
Learn more about protecting your sexual health at Healthisexuals dot com.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Put your put, put your put, put your puts to
y
Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
queer sex. Filter dirty words and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
offense your sensibilities, you might want to skip this Viewer
discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Put your pussy up, put your put your pussy up,
put your pussy up, put you, put your pussy up.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm Gabeln Sadez and.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I'm christtison Rosso. Each week we explore the sublime world
of queer sex, cruising, and relationships.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
We talked to queer folks of all kinds. We'll ask
some questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations, and provide
practical advice that you can use at home. Put joy,
put your put yo, pussy, put jo, put put your put.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Put your puts up.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So Gabe, yes, Chris, do you remember the first time
you heard about prop Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, the year was nineteen fifty two.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
No. I.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
One of my first jobs out of college was editing
for a gay porn studio. My boss was HIV positive,
and he told me that he had just learned that
PREP had been improved by the FDA in twenty twelve,
and he was undetectable. And he had sort of explained
to me what you equals you is undetectable equals untransmissible. Right.
If somebody who's HIV positive is taking their medications regularly
(01:24):
and being treated, they're undetectable and therefore they cannot transmit
HIV to you. And this all started because I had
had a hookup with someone who was HIV positive and
so despite the fact that it was perfectly safe for me,
whatever that means for you, right, I was like kind
of anxious about it. My boss he was like, oh, well,
you know you can get on PREP and I had
never heard about it. So I started like serving the
(01:45):
porn performers we would work with. I'd be like, hey,
are you a PREP?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Have you tried it? Like ah ah, where'd you get it?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
About this?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Like I was literally every girl and they were like, yes, girl,
I've been on it for six months. Like it changed
the game. And it was so funny because at the
time I was working.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
For a bareback or condomless studio.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Usually there would be testing and you know, talent would disclose,
but often there were zero discordant couples or groups being
paired on camera, so they all were very aware of
what PREP was. And you know, this is also the
era when a lot of porn studios, folks like Michael
Lucas or folks like Larry Kramer, were very negative about PREP. Right,
this was very early days, and a lot of the
(02:24):
data that was coming out was being questioned, you know,
sometimes without reason, and a lot of these scare tactics
that people hold on to, and a lot of the
fear that people was going to hold on too from
the nineties and early two thousands still kind of impacted
the perception. So I literally, I think until the age
of sixteen or seventeen, I thought you just magically got
HIV if you had condomless sex with another gay man.
So very grateful to the porn world because they gave
(02:48):
me the education that no teacher in Florida did and
very few of my friends could have at the time. So, Chris,
how about you, I'm very curious when did you learn
about PREP and has it impacted the sort of sex
ring or the sort of partners you seek out in
your life.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, so I didn't hear about PREP for a long time.
I am HIV positive. I have been since two thousand
and five. I didn't hear about it because, like, my
doctor is not gonna tell me about product because like
I don't.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm it's it's too late.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Okay, this is our Angels in America audition right now.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It was too late.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
I started using Crystal method having sex round the same time,
and so there wasn't a lot of conversations around safer
sex and those spaces, and so for six years from
the time I started having sex, and so the time
I tested positive, I knew that I was engaging in
risky behavior and I just didn't care. I did have
a really good friend and he worked in HIV care.
(03:46):
So like one day he like shows up to my
apartment and he was like, we're gonna go get you
tested and got the results.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
My friend immediately clocked it.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Like I was in there for a while because like
I had a compleat eat breakdown. Yeah, I remember really
feeling alone because I didn't have people.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
The first year or so was really really, really difficult.
But yeah, I didn't really hear about PREP for a while.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Honestly, I couldn't really tell you when the first time
I heard about it was and what the context was
it might have been on an app. From the beginning,
was always very clear that like, IMHIV positive and like
if you're cool with that or you're not, I'm not
going to waste time.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Like if you're going to reject me, then to reject me.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There are plenty of people in New York that I
can fuck, and like for a while there there was
a lot of like sero sorting. You know, I was
only hooking up with other HIV positive people just because
there was like less to like worry about.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Wow. Yeah, And I'm sure there must have been a
i don't know, very difficult time to also engage with
trying to find sexual partners or dating partners. You still
got this like post nineties like scare right, everybody's like,
oh my god, but it's like pre prep right. So
it's like a lot of headway had been made in
terms of treatment, in terms of medication that HIV positive
people could take to live long, healthy lives, but it
(05:07):
just felt like the knowledge and the grace and the
accuracy was still lacking. Yeah, it is to this day.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
I mean, and there were still people dying from its
related like in the early two thousands, Let's be clear,
Like people were still dying from the disease, like, and
that is a thing that I think a lot of
folks kind of forget. And the way that we engage
around treatment is different today than it was back then
to Like when I first tested positive, they didn't give
me medication right away. They said that your numbers were
(05:36):
good enough, your viral lod isn't crazy high, so we're
not going to put you on any medication.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Which is not the way that they treat the disease
today today.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Like you test positive, you're on medication immediately because we
want to get you to the U equals you.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Oh yeah, the word undetectable wasn't something that entered my
vocabulary until shortly before I found out about PREP.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah. It was twenty twelve when the FDA approved the
use of PREP, medication that was already being used to
keep HIV positive people undetectable as a tool to prevent
HIV transmission and serial conversions.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
During its early year. Its prop was controversial, to say
the least, because it up ended the established approach to
safer sex, which prioritize condoms above all else.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Most of the conversations surrounding PREP has focused on its
impact on HIV negative.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
People, but PREP had an impact on queers living with
HIV two and today we're going to have that discussion.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
We're going to look back on thirteen years of PREP
exploring how it's changed the lives and sexual behaviors of
both HIV positive and negative people. It's time to meet
our first guest. Daniel Sanchez Torres is a San Francisco
based writer and editor who has covered topics like photography, literature, film, relationships,
HIV and pandemics.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
He's a member of the collective What would an HIV
Doula Do? They create art, informational materials, and engage in
discussions about aspects of HIV care and community.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Most recently, Daniel has written a series of essays about
his history of cruising in the San Francisco Bay Area
with Everything Matters Press called Cruising with the King of Sex.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Welcome to Snippy's Cruising Confessions, The King of Sex, Daniel
Sinja's Daughters.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Hi Daniel, how are you hi?
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Hi?
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I should clarify I did not give myself that title.
Somebody else gave me that title, So okay, you know
it's something that I sometimes claim.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I'm sure you're living up to the responsibility every day though, right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
You know, I worked very, very hard to overcompensate.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Daniel, Before we dive too deep into your title on
how you earned it, I would love to hear a
little bit about Ring Up near San Francisco, which has
a long history, not just as a gay hotspot, but
as a place where a lot of important strides were
made in HIV, AIDS activism and community care.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
It's this weird thing, like I grew up in the
Bay Area. It's super open, it's super queer. It has
its history. But I also grew up like in the suburbs.
The city was thirty minutes away, so it was kind
of this thing of like, oh, it took me a
while to kind of find people that I wanted to
have sex with. Because I like graduated from high school,
(08:02):
I went to community college. I was kind of a
fuck boy, Like I was just kind of having a
good time. And when I was eighteen, I traded my
virginity for HIV, and so I was like with my
mom in the doctor's office and my doctor's telling me
that I'm HIV positive and I'm sitting there like, great,
my mom's in the waiting room, you're telling her.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I think that was sort of the big moment of
like me coming out of like if you weren't sure before, Yeah,
this is why I have a pretty positive confirmation that
I am very gay.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I'm wondering if I can ask what your reaction to
that news was, especially given that your mom was in
the waiting room, Like what were your first thoughts and
how did you and your family react to the diagnosis afterward?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
So it was terrible timing to get HIV. I mean,
is there ever really a good time? I don't know,
maybe like a spring, but I ended up so converting
like over over the winter holiday. So I had like
graduated from high school at all this summer, and then
I was it was like fucking around during the fall
and I ended up getting like hospitalized. My fever was
(09:09):
so high that they had to put like an ice
blanket on me to just like get my fever to
come down. So that was like super intense, And because
of the holidays, I didn't even get a chance to
see my doctor until the new year, so I kind
of had this feeling of like, oh, I was just sick.
It's fine, it'll be chill. And then when I had
(09:32):
like this follow up appointment with my doctor, I very
distinctly remember like seeing all of these plaques on the
wall of like achievement in HIV studies. And I sat
there looking on all these like plaques and stuff, and
I was like, oh, he might just be giving me
like a stern talking too about like my behavior. And
he walked in and was like, you're HIV positive, and
(09:55):
I was like, oh shit. I still very distinctly remember
that office appointment and that being in that room and
like my mom was freaking out, and my mom like
asked the doctor like you know, like through teary eyes
and like shaking breath, like you know, is he going
to die? And the doctor looked at her and said,
(10:18):
We're all gonna die. That's just really stuck with me.
I have this constant like monologue in my head of like, oh,
we're all going to die, Like we're all going to die.
And my mortality is very much like I'm very aware
of it, and for better or worse, like it leads
me to great decisions. And that's a great decisions because
(10:40):
I'm just like fuck it, yo, know, let's go.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, I kind of wish that I had had someone
to tell my mom that I was HIV positive.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
It's really helpful. That's my advice. If you're trying to
be positive, get somebody else.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So, like I was out of the country for like
four months, like as I was zero converting, and like
it was horrendous. I'm nineteen years old, I'm on tour.
I'm going to have a conversation with my parents.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
You come back from a tour and your mom's like,
what'd you bring me in? And You're like, I got
you told me to have a positive experience.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
She came around, but it took some time. I know,
a lot of conversations. She watched the AIDS epidemic happen
and was really terrified for what that meant for me,
Like when she got more education on the science around it.
Like she came around and she saw me living in
like a very full and healthy life. You know, I
wasn't like sick ever.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Daniel, you have an essay about cruising and your experiences
with HIV called Cruising with the King of Sex. Can
you tell me more about the essay and where this
excellent nickname came from.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Yes, the essay is really just kind of thinking about,
like my history with sex, how HIV has impacted my
relationship to sex, how I've changed as a person. I
do think that sometimes I can be a great person
to have sex with, and it was also thinking about
like why is that? Like why did that happen? A
lot of it was overcompensating for my HIV. I think
(12:08):
a lot of what my headspace was at was like,
if I'm a risky person that have sex with, then
I'm going to do everything I can to make the
risk worth it. And I think that's part of how
I kind of got this title.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I'm curious if I can ask, when you cruise, when
you use the apps, when you meet new folks, how
do you sort of handle the disclosure question?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I mean, I think what's been interesting about cruising is that,
you know, I feel like the core of it and
kind of what makes it fun and what makes it
enjoyable is the anonymity. So like, I'm not having conversations
about my HIV with people, and that requires a little
bit of personal responsibility. I wasn't always comfortable with not
(12:52):
being so open about it, and now I'm just kind
of fine with it because I think it's sort of
to the point of like education and knowing about your
body and knowing about HIV and knowing about these things.
I'm the safest person that you can have sex with.
Like somebody who is HIV positive and on meds and undetectable,
They're not going to give you HIV. I find disclosure
(13:13):
to be like a very intimate thing, and the situations
that I have gotten into that have been complicated have
been sort of the hookups that are not a one
off thing. In those moments and the times that I've
had those conversations, They've always been pleasant and they've always
been fine, And I think it's mostly because they wanted
(13:34):
to keep having sex with me. So I think leading
with really great sex is really helpful for disclosure.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
The way that I disclosed today is different than the
way that I disclosed fifteen years ago. I've been positive
for twenty years now, and the drugs have changed. The
science around you equals you has changed, right, the information
that he has has changed. So in the beginning, every
single person I came in contact with I was disclosing.
Today I have it on my apps. If someone is
(14:02):
like looking at my profile, it is up there. I
talk about it. I say that I'm undetectable. I'm less
likely to have that conversation in the dark room.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
You'll hear Chris saying things in the dark room, but
it won't be about that.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
No, Yeah, I'm usually saying actually in the dark room,
I get called that first singing.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
And if you ever hear like humming that sounds like
someone's humming into someone else's butt, that is.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But today, like, yeah, it's just a little bit different.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
I'm only having that disclosure conversation if I'm meeting someone
out and we decide that we're going on a date
or something in that sense, then I'm having like the
disclosure conversation. But outside of that, I don't think I
need to have it unless it's going to be something
like I'm in a romantic situation with you, and I
think it's important that you should know this.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
We talked a lot about how PREP hasn't fundamentally changed
the way you go about your life. But I'm wondering,
if you know, since the FDA approved PREP in twenty twelve,
if you've seen a difference is in the experiences that
you're with partners, when you're hooking up, when you're cruising.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
I do think that PREP has really sort of taken
away the responsibility of people having a conversation about HIV
and about STIs in terms of like a difference. I
don't even know if I would call it a difference,
but just something that I've noticed. The people who are
not going to have sex with me before PREP because
of my HIV are not going to have sex with
(15:23):
me after PREP because of my HIV. I'm just one person,
But anecdotally, I don't really know that PREP has really
done away with stigma as much as it has done
away with having an opportunity to have the conversation. And
you know, at the same time, like I'm not trying
to have a conversation about it either, So it is
kind of a thing that I just sort of had
(15:44):
to accept.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think I have to agree with you on that one, actually,
and I hadn't really thought about it that way until
you said it. But it's true, like I don't think
there are people who are like now that PREP exists,
or like banging down my door to fuck.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know, the drug treatment is not going to magically
dissolve some stigma. If people have grown up with years
and years and years of these like incorrect, inappropriate, like
stigmatized ideas ingrained in their head, that's like community work
that you have to undo.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Right, I do want to like give space to the
folks who are like learning. Hey, I understand that science
is different, right, I understand that, Like the way that
I showed up before was really stupid. Like if they
approach it that way, then like I might give them
a pass.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's also it's so interesting that your experiences are so
different than folks are on PREP. Because a lot of
people online, right, you hear this every now and then
it's like, oh, we're ultimately on the same drugs. It's
like we're all doing the same thing. And it's like, no, no,
the experiences are different.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
It's like I might be taking a certain drug for
PREP that somebody else is taking to you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Know, save their lives.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, exactly, but that our experiences are not the same.
It's not that the community is not the same, even
though we might be taking the same drugs.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Yeah for sure. I mean the stakes are incredibly different,
you know. I think especially now, like in this moment,
the things that are being attacked right now are prevention methods.
So this is really sort of a negative people problem
that they need to kind of deal with.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I think sometimes I get this question of like, you know,
what what should we do? Like how do we approach this?
And it's kind of one of those things where it's
like I actually don't know because at this present moment,
my care is not under attack. And I think the
stakes are different too, because you know, for HIV negative people,
like what happens if PREP goes away? You stop having
sex with HIV positive people. Maybe I don't know what
(17:30):
happens if the care for HIV positive people goes away.
It can be a life or death situation. And so
even those situations, like the stakes are different. It's been
an interesting dynamic to be in this position to realize
that like right now, people who are on PREP, they're
the ones that are most at risk in terms of
getting their care taken away. And so I'm curious what
(17:53):
you guys are doing, you know, I'm curious about like
how you guys are motivating each other and what your
community is doing.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I'm curson about your group. What would an HIV doula do?
Can you talk a little bit about the group, How
did you get started? What work do you do?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
So I'm in a group called What we Can HIV
Doula Do. It's a community of people joined in respond
to the ongoing AIG crisis. We really understand adula as
someone who holds space during time to the transition. We
really think about how HIV is a series of transitions
that begin long before getting tested and that continue after
treatment and beyond. We realized that like no one gets
(18:36):
HIV alone, no one should have to live with HIV alone.
And so that's really sort of where the group came together,
foundational to sort of what we do is really just
asking questions. We've made sines that we've done, exhibitions, we've
done public engagement work. It's been a great kind of
group to be a part of, and it's been honestly
kind of a mind fuck in the best way. It
(18:58):
was a very rare experience of being in a room
full of people and having the realization that the people
that I was talking to were like directly responsible for
the fact that I had health care, for the fact
that I had access to meds. They are a lot
more activists than I am I mean, I think I'm
(19:19):
kind of a punk, but they are on a neither level.
So like, I have a lot of respect, I have
a lot of appreciation for them. Going through a pandemic
and now currently living through our current administration. They've invigorated
me and they've been a bridge of knowledge, of inspiration
of hope. I think the thing that I kind of
(19:40):
am always in tension with is I'm not interested in
being an activist. I'm not interested in being like a
cautionary tale. Like I really honestly believe that, like my
life has been amazing partly because of HIV, and that's
not to say that my life hasn't been shitty also
because of HIV. I mean, I live in in the
United States and we have our shitty healthcare system. So
(20:03):
I think that's really sort of where I kind of
entered the group.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
I'm wondering how much PREP has had an impact on
your organization and the work that y'all are doing.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
The people in the group are really activated around protecting
PREP and around protecting healthcare. I don't want to limit
it to just PREP, and I don't want to limit
it to just HIV. I think what's been interesting about
the group is that we have people from so many
different kind of activist groups bringing a lot of ideas
and thinking and experience to the table. To have a
(20:33):
group like that who has experienced is really kind of
nice to kind of see and be on the sidelines,
especially as I see a lot of them activate to
protect prep and make sure that people who are HIV
negative can stay negative.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
That's exciting to hear too. I mean, I feel like
post pandemic. There's also been this resurgence in the visibility
of ACT up in New York. But that's another organization
that I think growing up, I always associated with the nineties,
and they're still here and they're still doing stuff surrounding ACTS.
It's so encouraging to hear that there are groups everywhere
kind of like breaging that connect. Right, we can sort
of continue the work and hope to make this world
(21:09):
a little better than it was when we entered it.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
We're not starting from zero here, right, And I think,
I mean, I go through this all the time where
I'm just kind of like, fuck, what am I gonna do?
This is like completely new to me. How am I
subouted to navigate this? And then to like be reminded
that there are people out there doing the work, and
I think kind of the best thing that you can
do is go find those people first. Oh yeah, go
find the people that are already doing the work and
(21:31):
connect with them and figure out what they're going to do.
They'll have better answers than I do.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Okay, So I have to ask It's kind of a
controversial question, but I have to ask you this question,
just past person a pause, person, how do you feel
about bug chasing and the phenomenon that is.
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Girl leave me alone? Every time I got a bug
chaser in my DM, first of all, I realize they're
mostly always white, always, And then my second thought is
usually like, damn, your healthcare is that good? You want
(22:06):
to get a disease that's a pain in the ass
of paperwork and also like a fundamental misunderstanding of you
know how HIV works, Like, bro, we're all undetectable. You're
not getting it from any of us. I don't know
what to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, so I normally just block them because like, I'm
not doing this with you. I don't need to engage
with you. I'm not doing an education.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Yeah, this definitely is like one of those fantasies that like,
I'm not trying to go down that road. This is
not the fantasy I'm trying to live.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
No, it's not. It's also I already have it, so
it's like, I.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Don't know, I am already living the fantasy.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Girl.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It's cute gift, but like, we don't wish you with.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Me in this economy.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, you know, returns no exchanges.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Sorry, baby, we should shift some gears.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
We should years. All right, let's get a little more anecdotal.
Since you were nicknamed the King of Sex. What is
one of the wildest, craziest, maybe most memorable hookup stories
you've ever had during your years in the Bay Area.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
Oh my god. In the last year or two, there
was this guy who like hit me up on Sniffy's
and he was like, Hey, i'm working late. I'm at
this gas station, Like just come in, Oh, take out
your dick at the counter and if I like what
I see, then you can fuck me in front of
the I was like, oh okay. And at the time
(23:31):
while this was happening, I was also texting another guy
and I was like, Hey, I don't think it's going
to work out. I'm about to go meet this dude
maybe next time, and he was like, can I come watch?
And I was like sure. So I walked into this
gas station in the middle of the night, took my
dick out at the counter. The guy looks at it
and he goes, great, the manager's off, it's that way,
(23:53):
and I was like, cool, leave the door open. My
friend is coming, and he was like awesome. So we
go to the manager's office. He's sucking my dick, he's,
you know, going to town. And then all of a sudden,
I hear the door open and this guy walks in
and he walks into the manager's office and he just
starts jacking off and watching me fucking and I like,
(24:14):
turn him around. I put him on the manager's chair.
I'm like fucking him in the chair like it was great.
I had a great time. I did wake up with
a giant bruise on my thigh because of how hard
I was like slamming into the chair that he was in.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Maybe sometimes you gotta put your whole puss into it,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
I mean, they don't call me the King for nothing. Yes,
I told you I'm gonna make it worth it.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I'm sorry that you organized a sex show as somebody
else's place of work. And I'm kind of gag because, like,
what if the guy that walked in wasn't even when
you were texting? What if it was just like a
random client that came in and decided to drink off
with you all on the manager who knows. That's really beautiful.
That's community. That is community community. So you see, like
a very beautiful anecdote To end our interview on before
(25:03):
we let you go, could you please tell us where
listeners can find you and read more of your writing.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
The best place to find me is be on my
newsletter set DST slash newsletter. That's sup dst dot com.
I'm also begrudgingly on Instagram at sut underscore at DST,
and my Then the Cruising Diaries can be found with
Everything Matters Press, So that's Everythingmatters dot Press, slash shop.
(25:29):
Pick it up and find out how I became the King.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I guess amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
All right, when we come back, we're gonna give you
a refresher course on the different varieties of prep that
are on the market and in the pipeline.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So stay with us, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
So in this act, Chris and I will be talking
about all the forms of PREP that are currently available
and some of the forms of PREP that are coming
soon to a pharmacy or a doctor's office near you.
So the first of the approved methods for taking PREP
that we want to talk about is the daily prep,
and this one might be the one that is most
familiar to you.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
It is the pill that you take once a day,
every day, regardless of what, whether you're having sex or not.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Ideally you're going back every three months for refills as
well as HIV and STI testing with your doctor.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Now, once a day prep is not the only way
you can take PREP. You can also take PREP on demand.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
So prep on demand is also known as the two
to one one method or the intermittent prep. And this
one's a little trickier because you are taking pills on
a schedule.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
You want to take two pills two to twenty four
hours before you have sex. Then you take one pill
twenty four hours after the first is and one more
pill forty eight.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Hours after the first.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Since the two one one two before you have sex,
one after, and one two days after. If you continue
having sex, you can keep taking one pill every twenty
four hours, but you'll have to take two pills after
you last had sex, so one twenty four hours after
you do, and another forty eight hours after that. Now,
for folks who don't like taking pills, there is now
injectable prep.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
This is fairly new.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
So this is one shot in the butt and it
happens once every two months.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
It is important not to miss an injection.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yes, there is a short grace period about one week
in either direction, either one week before the two months
end or one week after that two months. If you
wait too long, the amount of medicine in your body
may fall too low to prevent HIV, but a lot
for mutations. This is the same thing that happens when
you're missing enough of your daily prep two months.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Injectible prep is just the latest advancement in prep. But
soon there should be an injectible prep that you only
have to get injected every six months.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
And that works by two subcutaneous injections in the abdomen
once every six months.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Not as fun as in the butt, but it is
very effective.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
All right.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
So we've covered the forms of prep that exists now,
but there are also so many that are in the
research pipeline.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
There are things like microboside gel, vaginal rings, depositories, foams, etc. Now,
before we close today's episode, let's hear some listeners submitted
cruising confessions from our Horny Colin hotline.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yes, my favorite tradition. I'm so excited. It's great.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
So I was home for Christmas in this tiny town
out in the desert, and I was desperate together of
the house and stuck some dick and I remembered that
at this party in Brooklyn, I hooked up with this hot,
handsome Santo looking daddy from my hometown. So I was
talented him on Facebook and he said, well, I can't
bring you home because I've been taking care of my mother.
(28:21):
But if you had found at a party in Brooklyn,
I know there are some people who throw raids out
here in the desert. And I saw some lights up
on the mountain, and maybe we should go up there
and see what's happening, and if there's nothing, we could
just go back to my mind, and I kind of
didn't understand exactly what he was saying, and I was like, okay, sure,
And this guy pulls up in front of the house
in his hummer and we start driving up into the
(28:41):
mountains with his enormous car completely filling up this narrow,
winding road, and it feels like at any moment we're
about to plunge over this cliff into the dark. And
he goes up to where he saw the lice and
he says, oh, I didn't see anything. That's weird, Bute.
We should just go back to my mind. I'm like, oh,
you mean, like back to your place, and he's like, no,
my mind is right near here. And he spends like
he owns a mine, like he's mining or and I'm like, oh, okay,
(29:05):
And he stops the car and we get out, and
I say to him, Wow, I'm not getting any signal
on my phone up here. This is just like in
a horror movie where somebody says I'm not getting the
signal up here and then they immediately get horridly murdered.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
Yeah, and I'm.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Pretending like I'm joking, But I say to him, you know,
if I hadn't just had long conversations on the record
with you and several of my friends about my plans
for tonight, I would be scared for my life right now, which,
of course is exactly what I am. Terrified but we
have a good laugh about it. And we walk over
to the entrance to his mind with like the tracks
(29:40):
on the ground for the whole cart and everything, and
he's got like a lantern and I got my phone
light and we go inside and it's literally sleezing coals outside.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
It's a line.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
There's all this geothermal heat and it's warm, way damp.
I'm we go down this narrow passageway into this mine.
It banks on like this platform on the ground. We're
making out it's me and this grizzled prospector in his mind,
and we're getting undressed, and he's got a whole union
suit on under his clothes, with like a trapdoor seat
(30:14):
and everything, and I'm eating his ass. Well, he's sucking
my dick, and then I'm sucking this white bearded daddy
up the ass on the floor of his mind. And
it's incredibly hot, this crazy fantasy. And we come and
he did not try to murder me at all. We
just had an amazing time up in his mind. And
(30:35):
then he drives me back home to my parents' house.
And that's my crazy story.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Okay, no, what do you mean You're picking me up
on a hummer.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
First of all, red flag number one. Red flag number
one is the hummer.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You're picking me up a armor?
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Okay, good part of the story. You had met this
person before, so like you already knew that they were
likely not a murderer. Again, you never know. So we
have the hummer. Yeah, and then we have the driving
up the narrow path. I'm gonna be honest, I think
the rave was a pretext.
Speaker 4 (31:04):
I won the rave.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh my mind, happens to be next to this ray? Like, girl,
how many mines are there in the desert? And also
what were the oars? What are you mining? Are these
precious materials that we should not be mining? Is this
a kin to fracking? I need to know, yes, this
is this a victimless mine? I mean it's a hummer,
So I think we get Yeah, maybe he said fuck
the environment and my ass.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Now they are making electric ones now Okay, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I'm also like, okay, when I think of mines, I'm like, oh,
a corporation runs a mine. A corporation runs a mine.
This man's treating this like his bachelor pad. He's like, oh,
the people come in, Yeah, they clink on the rocks
and then when they leave, I bring out my blanket
platform and I like what And.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It must be a fantasy for him because he obviously
going to afford a hotel. Girl.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, if you own a mine and a hummer, you
could have three houses. That's the thing he likes, fucking
in the mind. Yeah, that's why the rave was a pretext,
because he's like, it sounds creepy when I email somebody,
let's fuck.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
In my mind. And then he goes back to his mother.
Right then he goes.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Back to his mother, the previous owner of the mine.
I'm assuming because how else do you fucking get a
mine unless you inherit it from your family?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Just like a mind.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, once you go to an estate sale, be like, oh,
this mine looks great to fucking I this is one
of the most like, like, honestly, everything in my body
is like no, no bad idea. But it also sounds
kind of funny and really hot. You Yeah, you're sixty
nine ying the owner of the mine. I lost it
at the lantern. I was like too much, too much.
(32:33):
I I this is weird. What kind of role play
are we in right now? I've needed a story to
make me feel something. This is the most I've felt
in I am I'm like thrilled, I'm scared, I'm angry,
I'm I'm dubious, I'm a little turned.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
On us dubious.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Okay, Wow, so we fucked in a mine. We've been
told about fucking of mine with the Union suit and
then I bet it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
But I bet I have a little bits the butt flat.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, that's some snow white and the seven Dwarves ass shit.
I can't handle it.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
If you want to hear your own cruising infession an
upcoming episode of this podcast, you can call our Cruising
Confession hotline at three zero two two one nine three
eight nine eight. That is three zero two two one
nine three eight nine eights.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Okay, so we're at the end of this episode. We've
had an incredible guest. How are you feeling after this episode?
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I love this episode and I'm really glad that we
got to do this episode because I think that it
has been thirteen years, but I think there are still
a lot of conversations that can be had right and
sort of talking about the impact not only on the
folks who are HIV negative, but those of us who
are HIV positive.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, I'm really excited we got to talk about it
specifically from this perspective because I think a lot of
the conversations or the ads or the TV programming we
see that involves PREP always has an HIV negative person involved,
and a lot of panels and conversation I've been to
publicly about PREP usually center HIV negative folks, and I
love that we were able to talk to Daniel and
to you as well about how PREP has impacted HIV
(34:10):
positive folks because in some cases it's like, well, hasn't
changed much, but in other cases it has changed quite
a bit.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
One of the things I think we didn't really like
name it specifically, but the conversation around shame around HIV.
Daniel and I have showed you like the lack of
shame that we have, but I think that there has
been a shift in the perception around HIV and the
shame that folks who are experiencing around it.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I think, I think, in my experience.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I want to think our guest Daniel Sanchez Torres. You
can subscribe to his newsletter Rough Drafts at sup dst
dot com, Backslash newsletter, or order his new essay on
Cruising at Everything Matters dot Press, backslash Shop. He's also
on Instagram at sub sup Underscore, dst. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions
is directed by Adam Barron, produced by Amanda Keuper and
(34:54):
Cameron Femino, and executive produced by Eli Markin.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Cruising Confessions is present by Snippy's, the ultimate map based
cruising platform.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
We're gay by incurious people ready to cruise.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Check out the map at snippies dot com and fall
snitches at snippis app.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Cruisers are a community. Do your part in keeping us safe.
Learn more about protecting your sexual health at Healthisexuals dot com.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
Put your put, put your put, put your puts to
y
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.