Gene Yu, Former Green Beret, Author of The Second Shot and CEO of Blackpanda Group

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
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Speaker 2 (00:33):
Rad with another awesome episode of soft Rep Radio. You
guys already know that I don't like to tell you
who my guest is until I tell you, But you've
clicked on the link and so you already know he's here.
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(00:55):
soft rep Mafia. Thanks so much for supporting us at
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All right, so go check that out. Go check out

(01:16):
the book club at soft rep dot com. Also, the
loadoutroom dot com has taken off with peer reviews articles.
The podcast is shared over there now, so make sure
you're checking out the loadoutroom dot com. Now, my next guest.
His name is Gene U. He's a former Green Beret.
He went to West Point, and I'm gonna read a

(01:36):
little bit about his dotti and then we'll welcomed him
to the show. Okay, So I'm gonna okay, So we're
going to talk about first of all, one of his
books that he wrote, called The Second Shot by Genu.
But gene was born in Concord, Massachusetts, in nineteen seventy
nine and entered the United States Military Academy at West
Point in nineteen ninety seven, where he majored in computer
science and graduated top of his class. Gene served in

(01:58):
Korea and Japan as a US Army armorer and Special
Forces officer. He deployed for four combat tours in Iraq
and the Southern Philippines and is a recipient of two
Bronze Stars excuse me, two Bronze Stars medals and the
Combat Infantry and the Combat Infantryman Badge. In twenty fifteen,
Gene founded Black Panda Group, a cybersecurity, insurance and emergency

(02:19):
response services company headquartered in Singapore, and currently he serves
as the CEO. Jane is also an alumnus of John Hopkins'
School of Advanced International Studies and Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Welcome to the show, Jean, awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Rad Yes to be here, and thanks for coming to
us from Singapore tonight. I know it's about twelve thirty am,
year time, and I'm in Utah. It's beautiful, sunny. It's
about ten thirty in the morning here mountain time, and
I got the fireplace going. It's about it's going to
be about eighty eight high today started out about fifty
four and the low so how Singapore today.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
It's absolutely sweltering and humid, as it is every day here. Yeah,
we're almost on the equator, so it's a different, different
scene out here. There's no seasons, right, it's basically just
the same same year around. Is that a huge ey?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (03:11):
It is?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
It is?

Speaker 3 (03:13):
I thought it, you know, I thought i'd uh wear
it for this this podcast.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah. People actually asked me about it out here in
Asia sometimes and are like, that's cool. I've never heard
of that university in the States, Pineland, University of Pineland,
where's that? And uh, you should? I just have a
Chuck Houm State it's somewhere in North Carolina. Yeah, small
school in North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
So let to you go through huh right now? Now, now, Gene,
you guys have asked to me on the show to
talk about, you know, your book that you've written, which
is going to get into I believe it's Evelyn Chang, right,
did I remember that correctly? Right? And she lost her
husband in an ambush situation. Uh, you know, in the
jungle settings of the Philippines. And I know there's so

(04:00):
much to this book that I've that I've learned, but
I also know there's a lot to you. So but
let's let's let's let's go to prequels like Star Wars.
Let's go back. Okay, you're like sixteen years old, living where.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, so at that point, I'm I'm in Curpertino, California,
where Apple's headquartered. That's where my family moved. I was
born in Massachusetts. Has covered my bio briefly there. But
I moved out when I was ten and I spent
kind of my adolescence in South Bay, Silicon Valley. That's
that's where I grew up. So yeah, at that time period,

(04:35):
like a lot of teenagers, pretty confused trying to figure
out my.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Identity skateboarding scouts skateboarding.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
I was a little bit weirder, like, you know, I
had a kind of like this confused goth you know,
thing going on with this code and and but then
it was like this nerdy tennis player. So we had this.
We actually were one of the best high school tennis
teams in all the West Coast. But you know, in
the States, tennis does get a lot of get a
lot of respect growing up in high school. And so

(05:05):
but that was kind of my identity, right. So I
was a bit frustrated with my lot in life and
felt like I was a pretty cookie cutter like every
other Asian kid in in Cupertino. A caveat that. I
grew up in an area that's a part of the States,
one of the few parts of the States is dominantly
Asian American population, right, So my high school is over

(05:25):
fifty percent Asian, right, And so I kind of grew
up in the Asian American bubble, you know, around that area.
And I mentioned this my my writing as well. I
went to a public, public public education you know, previlege
all the way through through West Point, and oddly my
high school Mono Vista High School was so anti military
that they didn't even allow recruiters onto the on the campus.

(05:48):
So I had never actually even heard of West Point,
but they sent me a letter recruiting me for tennis,
and I thought it was like I thought it was
like Hogwarts, you know, you know, but for warriors rather
than wizards. You know, this is pret Harry Potters. That's
kind of a back dad reference. But and you know,
when I when I started looking into more of the school,
I was inspired by a book that I actually shoplifted

(06:12):
at a head, a local bookstore that I used to
used to hang out at, written by another Asian American
named Gustlie and he went to West Point in the
sixties and wrote a semi fictional account of his own
experiences there. And that's what kind of tipped me off
to is that the whole school and the experience and
inspired me to apply.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
And of was that book called China Boy.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Oh good poll So that is actually the prequel to
the book about West Point is called Honor and Duty.
China Boy. Yeah, so China Boy, which actually is a
book that I read before that as well. So this
this actually caught my eye when I realized there was
a sequel did the same character, which is basically Gustlie
growing up in San Fransco. I mean, China Boy is

(06:53):
basically the karate Kid for Asian for an Asian American story,
but in the boxing ring, right.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
I love boxing, dude, I tell you what. I love it.
I just got done today.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah yeah training, Yeah yeah, I do it every day.
Yeah it's awesome, man.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, that's that's.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Uh, that's part of Gustly's story in China Boy, and
that that I don't want to leap too far forward,
but so that's actually part of my story as well.
So I was I was the Brigade open boxing champion
at West Point. I got uh, I got knocked out
and yeah, man, I love you, bro. But part of

(07:30):
my stories I got I got knocked out in plea
boxing and got put in the hospital for two days
with a severe traumatic brain injury. I still actually most
of my disability check today as a veteran comes from
that TBI in my medical records, just from my plee
beear at West Point. I got messed up, man, I was.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right, you're going for your pugilist in the military.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Well, I mean this is a plea beear mandatory physical
education boxing, right, and man the story, Yeah, and I
was like, like in high school, I did go do
like a little bit of like tie kickboxing classes, but
I never did anything serious. It was just like went
to a gym and they you know, just had me
kick the kick and punched the bag in the corner
and they just took my money. Right. But when I

(08:15):
showed up to West Point, I had a little bit
better form, I would say, than some of the classmates.
And so the instructors thought it was a lot better
than I was and put me in with a really
good classmate who beat the crap at our first graded
graded bout and and I got I got hurt, right,
And so there was a huge crisis of confidence for me,
you know that hadn't really been in a fight before. Then.

(08:37):
I grew up a pretty you know, pretty PC life,
I would say, you know, yeah called tennis player, right,
you know what I mean, Like I was, I was
like throwing down like uh, you know, in the streets
like that. I grew up a pretty nerf ball life.
Things changed in my adulthood. I lived a very soft childhood,

(08:58):
but not so soft as it. And but yeah, and
I took that as a as a motivation, right and
ended up training you know when on my holidays back
at back home and actually went back to the same gym,
but then found like a very serious, you know, old
school boxing coach from like Chicago, this guy named Doc Mango,
and had trained with him, you know, and on on

(09:19):
my on my holidays with like kind of my own
little Rocky Montage scenarios. Came back to West Point and
started competing in the intramurals and gaining confidence, you know,
through through intramurals and trying to face that fear. And
by the time of my senior year, I entered the
Brigade Open Boxing Championship and and uh beat three or

(09:40):
four very formidable opponents and won that thing.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Man, Yeah, so I was I love that mid Yeah
kind of West Point is my favorite football college team
and it's now my favorite boxing Okay, that's what's up
right there, Let's go West Point.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I think I don't know about TDA, but definitely in
my era, the the West Point boxing team was routinely
usually like top three or four in the country as
well for it for the boxing. So once you win
the Brigade Open Boxing championship for a weight class, you
actually earned the starting spot typically, or you can compete
at least with the incumbent boxing champion boxing first string fighters.

(10:19):
So I did actually compete a little bit afterwards for
West Point itself, and had had a few few bounds
with some of the top top boxers in the country
as well, but didn't didn't take it much further than that.
But yeah, it was just that whole story for me
is a big part of my journey because it started
giving me confidence that I was a little bit tougher

(10:41):
than I originally thought because I got my ass kicked
at West Point in the first year, like I was,
I was actually ranked last in the class militarily like
a ninety eight out of one ninety eight, you know,
like I failed everything man, like I failed land NAV,
I failed basic rifleman marktanship. I was a very last one,
you know, and on the range. I remember this like,

(11:03):
you know, just just basically the worst, you know, and
everything was still out of place for me and everything
like that. And so you know, after unimpressing all of
my classes, getting hazed like like held by all the
upper classes through the first year, it's really the comeback
through boxing. That started giving me a bit of confidence,
you know, that I could do a little bit more.
Maybe I wasn't as weak as as everybody thought it was,

(11:26):
or even myself at that point, you know. And so
that's that started, that really started giving me a bit
of you know, that internal sense of self worth that
maybe I could maybe I could do a little bit
more than I was putting out at that point. So
boxing is we touched upon it randomly here, but yeah,
box is a huge component of my story.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, it's it's huge. I mean, and I love it.
And you're still training I'm sure all the.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Time, right, Yeah, well boxing these days. No, I'm a
jiu jitsu guy and the new jiu jitsu for close to
thirty years and black belt. I didn't I didn't do
it back at school, but I did start started out.
I've been in high school, had a big break. But yeah,
so I mean box, you know, buction is grade four
I think for working out right you were talking about Yeah,
mean the cardio is unreal, right, bro, I mean yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
You become a runner. Boxers become runners. Yeah, I'm looking
for like the Arnold arms and body. But I'm like
seeing my legs in the mirror. Yeah, and I'm like,
jump rope three minutes. Go ahead, give it a try.
Try to jump rope for three minutes, and you can
reward yourself with three burpies if you skip the rope wrong,

(12:28):
if you catch your toe right, just drop you three
berpies and then go right back to skipping. See what happened.
Just three minutes. Give yourself three minutes of rope time, bro,
just three minutes, let alone everything else that we're all
putting in at the gym. You know, the coach pulling
us over for mittes and he's like, rad, you're six
foot five, bro, I don't think you're gonna be rolling
too much, So why don't we just have you like
rocking poles versus like getting all these rolls going. And

(12:50):
I was like, someone's bigger than me, Coach, someone's bigger
than me. Okay, they're out there.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Gosh, I wouldn't want to get in the ring with you.
Six five for sure hit like yeah two seventy damn
I hear. I'm sure you hit like a mack truck man.
I think I think a lot of people you know,
just on this topic, and you understand this obviously spending
some time in the ring. Just even ten fifteen pounds
makes a huge difference, huge in terms of how somebody
hits you right, a huge right. And then you know,

(13:16):
it's interesting, you know when you just see people on
the streets sometimes mouthing off to people that are a
lot bigger than them, and it's like, bro, you have
no idea, Like when you hit that guy, like he
doesn't feel it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, he could follow evenly like he's just yeah, my sense.
Back in the day, I was making a movie and
they put us into this karate class here locally and
with some other actors, and for three months we were
actually taking you know, martial arts, and I was really
into it. It wasn't even just a movie thing anymore. It's like, oh,
I find a whole inside of myself. And he would
call me Riddle because my last name is Raydel r

(13:48):
A d. L. And so he'd be like, Riddle, I
don't know what I'd do with you because he's like
five foot three and he's a black belt sense that
he's like. I was like, what would you do to me, coach?
How would you get me? Sense? He's like, well, I'd
probably climb you and then just hack you down at
the neck. You can't.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
You can't train size man, right, Like that's hard to
sort of overcome that with technique. You know, it's not
something that you can learn, you know. So but yeah,
but I think that boxing and all that teaches you
a level humility, you know, around that in terms of
understanding size differential, managing distance, right, the distance management and
how dangerous that is inside striking distance and the person

(14:25):
is large than you. So so anyway, what I share is, look,
I'm forty five, you know, like I need my I
need I need the brain, you know, for for work
as a CEO and everything like that. So I think
that boxing as I get older, uh, it will have
to actually, to be honest, I didn't spar hard or
or compete in boxing at the Left West Point, but
I mean there was days like especially when I was

(14:46):
sparring a weight class up or really even riskier, maybe
even two weight classes up. And this is only we're
talking like ten pound differences, right yeah, and uh uh,
and I fought middleweights. I was one of fifty six
back at West Point. I'm two hundred and two rod
pounds and now is a older man. But yeah, back
then I was a lean mean, you know, one f
six and there's a couple of times, man, the one

(15:06):
sixty five or one seventy two fighters just rung my
bell and sparring, and later on that day I would
literally go to class and sit there and then the
next thing, I know, like my buddy is like hitting me, like, hey,
class is over, we need to get up and go.
And it's just like it just blanked me out, you
know what I mean, Like it rattled my my my
brain in there. You know, it's really it's not good
for you to get hit. No, it's not right, it's

(15:28):
not good for you. My coach, my old coach.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
He's like, you know, the ring's right over there, wrath.
And I was just like, coach, you guys can't pay
me enough to lose whatever brain cells I have left
from high school. Okay, that's it. Like you want me
to get in there, I get it. But you put
the money on the table, the right amount of money.
We're putting it out there like that's it. That's it,
you know. But at the end of the day, yeah,
I have a mouthguard. It sits next to my bed

(15:51):
and I've not molded it, and I promised my wife
that I wouldn't spar as. You know, like once I
mold that thing, I could put it in my mouth,
and you know, so I just haven't. I have it
right here next to my bed like there it is
if I ever want to mold it for my teeth.
But yeah, I'm also forty seven now, just recently, so
it's like I feel you, you know, it's like, yeah,
I love to learn the craft. I love to learn

(16:12):
the sport, you know, and I think that it's just
healthy for me. I wish I found boxing like at fifteen, right, right,
it's also one out there, bro, you know I found
the forties, you know, yeah, but they get it all
the system as well.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
I mean all that, all the testosterone, all that, all
the pentent energy. But what it sure is, right is
what I like about being a hobbyist with with jiu
jitsu today, right, is that you can actually spar each
other one hundred percent striketh right and not rattle each
other's brain in the cage and harm each other in
that way. Now that's not to say jiu jitsu is
it's soft. I mean you can very much get hurt,

(16:45):
but it's more musco skeleton, you know what I mean,
Like you could.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
It's rolling right, more like you're like trying to hoist graciot.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, so you get all that aggression out right and
able to practice the techniques at again one hundred percent
and strength, you know, against a fully resisting opponent, to
refine the technique right again. Disinis management, the timing, you know,
all that aspect. So I kind of get that out
of my system from that aspect of Still, you know,

(17:13):
I do love combat sports, but yeah I can't. I
definitely would not get in the ring and heartspar anybody
at this at this stage and place in life.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, let me let me segue your mind now to
let's go. Okay, you were armor, you left West Point
and got commissioned as a lieutenant, and then you were
attached to the SF right away or did you have
to go through I mean the riga moreau of getting there?
Did you get to like the first cap? Who'd you
go to first? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:40):
So when I first started out, I was in Korea.
I was with second Armor. So it's just a straight
up a tank officer right beatween leader and actually started
on one a one Abrams. Right, I'm not sure they're
in commission anymore. Right, old school like like we were
like like the fifty kl on the top. There was
this thing called the egg beater right like you you

(18:00):
would like rotate it around and like elevate the fifty
cal up and down as the tank commander or stuff
like that, and uh, it was cool. I remember at
the time something that they had said was like, I
was like, how come we don't have the A two's
out here right with all the you know, the awesome
optics andthing like that. And they're like, well, the North
Koreans only have like t fifty fives. Man, we can
smoke them with these old old things, you know. But

(18:21):
that was kind of cool that just from a stance,
just like you know, this here is good enough against
whatever they have. You're like, dude, this is a rock
like stick.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
What the hell you're doing? You got thermals on the
A two right that can see feah. It felt that fun.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
It felt like we were in like some old old chaalapee.
But but I kind of like it now and I
talked to old a tank or something like that. I
kind of feel like I'm, you know, part of that
kind of more era. Yeah, good question. So sable round
is I still remember this depleted uranium tipped one hundred
and twenty millimeters round, right, And what it is is
it's a penetrator that will actually punch through most other

(19:02):
tanks armor.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Right.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
So the other type of round that in Abram's generally
fires it is a heat explosive round, right, high explosive,
and those are more used for like armored personnel carres,
thinner skinned or hum vs because you don't blow it up, right,
but if you need to take out an enemy tank,
like a T ninety was the main one that we
always were fighting fighting, yeah, exactly, fighting the recal battles

(19:24):
against right, yeah, red you know what I mean. Like,
and all the simulators were alla like, oh no, it's
a teen ninety. Oh yeah, because the get that sable
rounds loaded up, and that's what a sable round is, right.
So it's it's a it's a depletated Iranian tip that
just penetrates through that front armor. And uh, I think
it's actually recently and I think it's the Ukraine conflict

(19:48):
that it's actually been really showing that the teen nineties
actually not not that it was all made up to
be like the the American sable rounds and or even
NATO sable rounds just cutting through it like a knife
through butter, right.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
So it's going through it.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
And so yeah, just was that.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
They're like in there, like what was that? Comrade. He's like, bro,
do we now have a hole through our tank?

Speaker 3 (20:07):
We are dead?

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, We're dead? Yeah yeah, just stop now right, go
back to video games, guys. Okay, just just lay down
your tanks and go home Russia. Okay, if you listen
to this message, that's right.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
So yeah, but yeah, and then but back in the
day when we were sitting on the you knows, as
the brochure attracted me this, yeah, right before we decided
our post, right before nine eleven. So I was class
of two thousand and one, which I considered to be
the real class of nine eleven for a four point right,
because we were the we're actually the longest continuous combat
class in history west point right, straight years right, So.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
And that hit us all differently. At our age, you know,
you were like twenty two years old, twenty three years old,
like I am now ready to go, right if anyone
is ready to go for such a situation.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Okay, great point rat So that that's part of like
when I joined West Point in ninety seven, it was
like Clinton, right, like people were talking about kiss but
is kind of it's like this smattering of whatever's going
on there, and you know, barely anybody's paying attention to it.
It's cold War's over, right, People are talking about how
it's the end of war. Right, you know we won whatever.
The Russians are our friends. Now we were in debt, right, yeah,

(21:16):
we're above the tech tech one point or was going off.
You know, economy is on fire.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Clinton has downsized half the army, right, people actually were
joining I remember when I was being recruited to go
to West Point, and you got to serve five years, right,
they're actually saying as part of the pitch, yeah, you've
got to serve five years, but since the army is downsizing,
you probably only have to serve two. And actually, if
you really push, you might be able to get a
waiver and just not serve at all. Like it was
actually part of the story of like, hey, don't recreate

(21:45):
it may not be yeah, like because.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
That wasn't a good place right now.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, Like a kid as a kid, Like I
just wanted to go to West Point because I thought
West Point was cool. I didn't actually want to be
in the Army, you know what I mean, Like the.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Army is cool. Yeah, yeah, well you know it is cool.
I okay, I see that cool you know kid looking
at West Point because I see that castle. You know,
I'm just right.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Right, and that's where I'm going to prove myself and
being you know what I mean, I'm going to do
something so hard that nobody can ever talk shit to
me ever again, right, That's what I was thinking about
at that time. I was thinking like, oh wow, this
place is hardcore. It's different from any other university. Oh
and there's this other thing called the Army afterwards that
I have to go do. But especially again in the

(22:28):
in the late nineties, I'm thinking it's peacetime. You know.
I'm looking at the post. Look, I'm from California. And
then a lot of the locations don't seem attractive to me, right,
like for Polk and you know these you know, bending
and these places. But oh hey, look Hawaii. Maybe I
could go to Hawaii. That would be yeah, you know,
I'll get a I'll get a motorcycle, you know what
I mean, and a cruise round and like the beach right,

(22:50):
beach adventure overseas, you know what I mean. Like this
is my my thought process, you know. And I'm gonna
be I'm going to join the computer branch of the Army,
which is would be the Signal Core, right, and I'll
learn about networks and I'll come back and work at
Apple and you know, be a programmer in a cube
farm somewhere. Right. That was that was my mindset before
I went to West Point, Yes, and when nine to

(23:11):
eleven happened, to your point, right at this point, now
it's you know, I'm not like some highly trained you know,
weapon you know, or something like that coming out of
West Point, But I'm a commissioned US Army officer, right,
I mean, like you know what I mean, Like, if
it's not me, who's going to go fight at this
point in time? Who who is supposed to go fight
at the time?

Speaker 2 (23:29):
You know what I mean? Who were supposed to be
the lieutenants?

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Obviously I am qualified according to the US Army at
this point right.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
At that past time in your life, yep, ready, yeah,
I was.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Ready, right, So nine to eleven actually changed my entire
mindset of not using West Point and the US Army
for my own personal self interests. But I really did
actually change my mindset the time to become a volunteer,
right because I was actually very pissed about nine to eleven.
You know, I grew up in California, but West Point
was one hour north of New York City. You know,

(23:59):
I was there almost every weekend, trying to pretend to
be a regular college student. You know, I have a
lot of great memories down there, and I was very upset,
you know, when the planes flew into in those twin towers,
and of course the Pentagon as well. So so that
really to your point, you know, nine to eleven and
being the class nine to eleven changed me entirely about
what I was doing with my time as US Army officer.

(24:21):
And so again, to use another Harry Potter reference, but
I looked at trying out for Special Forces. Its kind
of like the sorting hat, you know at Harbor Woods. Right, Like,
my mindset was like, Okay, I'm ready to I'm ready
to fight, and I've joined armor because I thought tanks
were cool, but I'm not sure that's what's actually happening

(24:41):
in Afghanistan and Iraq right now? Is that really what
the main thing is? How About there's this thing called
Special Forces. It looks like it might be a right
fit for me at this point in time, Like I've
gone to ranger school, you know, the boxing thing. I'm
a little bit tougher than I thought it was. You know,
I'm starting to realize that maybe you know something with it. Yeah,
I'm realized I've got a little bit more. Maybe I

(25:02):
could make make it into into into SF. But to
me at the time, those guys seem to just walk
on water as well. But I decided to go try
out more non not not from the sense of being like, hey,
I'm good enough to be there, so that's that's what
I want to do. But more let me go to
selection and hey, Army, you tell me if I'm supposed

(25:23):
to be here, you sort me out. Because if I
can make it through this and you tell me I'm
supposed to be here, clearly that's where I'm supposed to
serve because so few people can make it through this thing.
If I make it through, then that is where my
duty is and responsibility is to serve. Right That was
my mindset after nine to eleven why I tried out
for SF so so part of it, though, too, was

(25:44):
that like this is an era where the Internet is
not really the Internet we know today, of course, and
like anything I could find on SF was just like misinformation,
to be honest with, startain career. Like there's like these
weird websites that people had created, like fans of SF
and had all this like weird MySpace looking pages. That
was the extent of the information you could find on
SF in like two thousand and two, you know. And

(26:08):
so I'm in Korea and I'm at a bookstore in Seoul,
just hanging out, and then I see a guy with
all silver hair and a suit, looking very dapper, and
he's got the crossed arrows, which I recognized the insignia
of Special Forces on a pin on his lapel of
his suit. So I roll up to him and I'm like, hey, sir,
you know, my name's Potent G and you I'm trying

(26:29):
to learn about Special Forces. I know he's having insignia.
Can I buy you a cup of coffee? And you know,
if you know anything about this? And he's kind of impressed,
and I, you know, kind of you know, rolled up
to him like this in the bookstore and he's like, yeah,
let's sit down, and in fact, I'll buy you the
cup of coffee. This turns out to be Colonel Rick
Thomas Okay, who is the Chief of Staff of Special
Operations Command, Korea and later becomes the first Group Special

(26:53):
Forces Commander. Right, and so Rick Thomas sits down, we
chat for you know, ten to fifteen minutes on. You know,
this is like a Sunday in a soul bookstore. And
he goes, you know what, lieutenant, you're so interested, you
know about SF We've got this two week exercise. You know,
why don't you come down and figure out how you
can come down and volunteer and just be like a

(27:15):
staff officer and just home out and so I you know,
when you do your hardship tours in Korea up on
the on DMZ, you get a trip home every week
every once a year, and they pay for your ticket
back home and everything. I took my holiday and went
to go volunteer at this exercise, right, to go work
for Colonel Thomas. And uh, pretty quickly they realized I'd

(27:38):
do a little bit more than just get coffee for
the senior officers there and actually actually they gave me
a joint award at the end for writing whatever good
good good operations orders and things like that. But so
after that he offered me a role. He said, Hey,
if you're up on your your tour up there in
your your first year, I'll talk to your pent commander
and see if you can come down and essentially be

(27:58):
an intern. Add a unit called Detachment Korea, okay, Special
Force Attachment Korea, and it's a very unique special forces
team that's been around I think since the fifties. And
it's all team like former team sergeants, right, So it's
a team of basically all e eights who have already
been team sergeants, right, each one of our signs. Yeah,

(28:21):
they're like they're like the top of the food chain
of of the you know, the action guys. The teams
are the.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Radio bro go ahead, right.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
And so each one of these guys are assigned to
a Korean Special Force brigade as an advisor and facilitating
the joint operations between Green Berets and Korean special Forces.
And it's all intertwined in the in the Korean theater
in case on the kicks off North Korea. What's going
to happen there? So I basically go down there, and
I in turn essentially as the like I'm the executive officer.

(28:52):
They make up a position for an exemant officer but
basically an intern for all intensive purposes. But that's where
I got exposed uniquely as as as as well anybody
whether enlisted or officer, but particularly it's an officer to
see something like that as an armor officer and being attached.
So I was in an airborne unit. You know, I'm
wearing like a Maroon beret as an armor officer in

(29:14):
this unique Special Force of Korea detachment. And got to
live in Seoul too for close to a year, which
was awesome, and I had so much fun. I'm like
twenty three years old, you know, twenty four years old,
just hanging out with a bunch of s F guys. You know,
they're they're like basically running me through the ringer as well.
Some of them were hazing me, some of them are
taking me under the wing. But I could do a
lot of stuff during that time. I was jumping out
of hot air balloons in Korea, I was calling in

(29:37):
we were we had like a ten's come at one
time and I'm like learning how to call for fire
and we're dropping bombs on like a Korea, Korean island.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
They were really OJT and you dude, oh yeah it.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Was awesome man, I'm training really yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
I got to go with them to like Okinawa, like
with the dive guys, and I was like, you know,
I couldn't go on the actual dive operations like the
combat dive training and stuff, but I could have go
and see what I was all like and did all
like the they call it the surface swimming yeah up here. Yeah,
just just seeing how it all went down, you know.
And you know, in a SF, so much of it

(30:11):
is like there is like a strong aspect of networking
and reputation, right. They always say like you're the day
you start selectioning your reputation, your name starts in in
uh in s F. And as a lieutenant showing him
an Okinawa was meeting like some of the some of
the n c O s and stuff like that would
become teams that were team sergists by that time. I
showed up as a team leader and people are like, hey,

(30:32):
I remember you. You know you're that guy that came
from Korea and helped out you're you know, a good
you're a good teammate at the time, or a good dude,
you know whatever, and that all that all started playing
into you know, I think, you know, some some some
measure of positivity of of of my reputation. So but anyway,
so it was a really unique experience when you're asking
me about like where I got into SF and everything, like,

(30:53):
you know, as I actually got a preview through that way,
and so once I kind of that that union saw everything,
oh man, then I got sold all the way through, right,
because then I actually realized that this was this whole
thing was about unconventional warfare and could leverage the aspect
of of me being a minority having that ethnic cultural
cultural kind of adaptability or or or how do you say,

(31:16):
just like navit being able to navigate you know, two cultures,
language r.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
You know, like showing that anybody can do it from
any culture, Like it doesn't have to just be somebody specific.
It's like anybody can put their mind to it and
no matter their shape, color, or you know, well their shape,
but still feel it still a yeah, yeah, a little
bit a little bit, especially at that point, but I
feel it and and yeah, I mean one of the

(31:43):
baddest SF guys on my dad's team. His last name
was Kim, and he was Asian dude, and he was
about five foot six and he was coming He was
a little dude though, and he was coming down on
a halo jump and we were all at the airport
watching everybody do their jumps. And I was a little kid,
and I remember he came down but the wind had
picked him up he was still light, and just slammed

(32:03):
him right onto the ground. I remember saw my dad
his guys run so fast because they had already come
down from like regular style PLF jumps, and then he
was just coming down the halo style and then they're
all watching him and then the wind just picked him
up like forty feet above the ground and slammed him
right down. They were hauling. Yeah, Kim, this is for you, bro.

(32:23):
I know you're out there acting in Utah. If you
listened to this, what's up?

Speaker 3 (32:27):
I hope we were recovering from that. That is very dangerous.
It's all about the landing, right, And then it sounds
like got he caught a pocket of air And yeah,
people get really hurt, you know that way, right, he.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Was close to because he was like to me, I
think he was probably thirty to fifty feet up off
the ground before he was going to land. And then
that he was probably like coming down pulling on his
strip and picked him up and dropped him, hit him hard.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
There's there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing just perfectly fine
about you know, jumping out of aircraft. And we're not
supposed to be all except the aircraft, right, yeah, we're
supp up there as a human beings, you know what
I mean, like from a nature standpoint. And but yeah,
so back to the whole decade story. So the first
time I actually went to selection, I got sent from

(33:10):
Korea to selection, right, and I actually failed the first time.
And that's the longer story itself that I talked about
the book. But I failed the Star exam, right, I
wasn't very I just mentioned that I failed the land
navigation exam at west Point and like barely past that,
which is like basically a scavenger kids hunt, you know.
By comparison, even from La dav courses, the Star exam

(33:30):
is really hard, right, it's you know, I think now
in the jung I saw something in the news of
the jungle warfare courses back I think in Hawaii that
was at the time considered to be the hardest LANDAV
exam was the Jungle Warfare course but in Panama, but
they had shut that down by the time I showed up.
So but people always kind of qualified that the Star
Exam was the second hardest to that one, even though

(33:52):
I shut down. So in theory, what they're saying is
the Star Exam was the hardest landav examiner in the
in the Army at the time. And yeah, and I
got my ask and I didn't pass right, and uh
and actually worse, and it's a longer story in my book,
but I actually lost my rifle right on the on
the land of exam. I had strapped it to the
back of my rucksack. I was going through one of
those nasty draws at at on the Star Exam. I mean,

(34:16):
these are like the the thorns are like as long
as like a man's finger, you know, coming out of
it's like triple concertina wires. You get through this and
it I mean you're fighting through these draws for literally hours,
just feeling like you can only move an inch at
a time. There's cases during the train up or during
the star exam where people will actually get stuck in
the draws and they'll need to pull out like the
Kio kaya was or the ISR infrared you know, kind

(34:40):
of mission to see and they'll just see like these
wanna be Green Beret you know students right, just stuck
in the draw and just paralyzed. They've just been trying
to move through it that they've just gotten entangled so
much they can't move and it literally becomes a like
a safety situation from a survival standpoint of to get there,
to get to the guy, uh, especially.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
In and you have your ruck on your back, right,
you guys are all rocky out yeah, yeah, full kit
and kaboodle, and you're trying to like just move through
something and it's just every time you move it's probably getting.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
To describe it, it's like a it's like it's like
some type of like wicked you know, type of trap,
you know what I mean, like a like a maze
trap of things that are just entwining. And and by
the way, like this is oftentimes in the pitch black right, darkness, right,
because there's no lights around in your sta mill of
the woods and you can't even see as the thorns
are coming in like coming at your eyes, you know

(35:32):
what I mean, and your your nose and your mouth
and you know you can't even see this and it's
coming in at you. And uh uh yeah. So I
just so I bring that up because as I was
trying to move through this draw, I decided to take
my my shovel, right, they called the E tool, right
that the foldable shovel that you carry, and uh I
had on the tip of one of my decade mentors,

(35:56):
Tony Bell, had gone to a mill in Fayetteville, and
I had him sharpen the E tool sides right, so
you're not allowed to bring a machete, okay to selection right,
and for this exact purpose, because you could just cut
through the draws the machee like you definitely in a
normal situation would not try to go through the draw
without a without a machete, right, You've got to cut

(36:17):
through all that. And so so I had the E
tool sharpened right on the side, so it's kind of
like kind of like a makeshift machete, right, And so
I pulled that out right, and I started hacking through
the draw and I'm making good time, but you know,
because I'm usually with full pans. That's why I strapped
my rifle top of my rucksack and you know, as

(36:39):
tight as I could.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
Horrible move, horrible move right. And so at one point, actually, uh,
there's a big branch and I was hacking at it,
hacking it, trying to get through. You know, I missed
the branch and I just buried my shuffle straight into
my shin. I saw the scar on my knee now,
but it basically like literally buried it into my own

(37:01):
leg and I just cream like crazy right in the
middle of this draw by myself is bleeding all the place.
I actually had a good buddy later when we're circling
up and I was telling the story, It's like, dude,
I heard you. I thought that was like a wounded animal,
like some like like a wounded animal got attacked by
like an animal fight happened or something. Yeah, because we're
like way the hell no nowhere out here, you know,

(37:22):
and so I had to. You know, I basically crawled
through the draw the other side, patched myself up a
little bit, and then realized my rifle was gone, right,
and I'm like no, right, because it literally just like
spent like two hours trying to get through that thing,
and uh, you know, feudally look for it really quick,
you know, in the in the draw definitely, I was
like realized it's gone, right, there's no way going to

(37:43):
find that. And as I realized that I've just failed
to the star exam and it was the last try
it the third day, I'm like, all right, I'm done, right,
I'm not gonna be I didn't make it right. The
sorting hat sorted me. I'm not gonna be I'm not
gonna be green, Bret, Okay, all right, I'm just gonna
go back to Korea and just be, you know, get
mocked by all the all these senior team sergeants and

(38:05):
and that just invested a year with me. I reached
down to grab my map to to go back to
the base, and my cargo pocket it's split open and
the map is actually gone too, So I don't even
have a map on a land navigation exam. Right, I
lost the map, you know, I mean what a what
a I mean like talk about frustration, right, it's just failure.

(38:28):
Just it's humiliating as well, right, law Murphy beyond Murphy
Murphy times three. Right, I don't have a I'm supposed
to be a soldier, right, I don't have a rifle.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
I don't have a map.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Right, I don't even know what like, I don't even
know what direction cardinal direction the base I've gotta I've
got a MASHETI in case, you know, some animal comes by,
I'm you know, I'll be able to kind of defend
myself with it. So yeah, so I don't even know
what cardinal direction the base camp's at, right, So I
just kind of just grab my ruck and just wander,

(39:02):
you know, just start wandering any random direction, and just
by pure luck, I wander, like after about an hour
straight into the Star Exam base camp.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Right.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
That's just just random as well when you think about it, right,
because the thing is huge, right, It's we're talking about
like thirty forty kilometers of space. And so I wander
straight into the base camp. And it's about daybreak because
Star Exam starts at like you know, wander two am
or something like that, and they all take you to
these like random places and then they just give you
one point, right, and then you set out on that point.

(39:31):
It's usually like eight to ten kilometers away through all
sorts of nastay terrain. When you get to that point,
it's usually it's a Special Force instructor who's got like
a camouflage tent and you're hanging out hiding in there.
And I point that out because a lot of the
regular US Army Land average education exams, there's nobody sitting there.
It's like a it's like a big sign that's like

(39:52):
posted on top of the tree. And sometimes it's even
like really high up so you can really see it
far away as well, and sometimes even fluorescent orange like
some of the courses have been on.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
I mean, it's like.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Easy, you know what I mean, Like once you get
within like a couple hundred meters of it, you usually
can spot it right. You're like, oh, it's right there, right.
Not to mention that there's usually a lot of other
people going at the same points the way that they
arrange it, so you kind of see like other people
around you, and you kind of quietly cheat off each
other and just kind of see like, oh he's going
that way, I'm gonna go this way. You're like totally
alone in the Star exam, right, So you got to

(40:22):
walk right on top of the point, and that the
instructor is trying to keep quiet too, right, he can
hear you chopping around, cursing, trying to get through all
those and he's just sitting there just laughing at you,
reading like a Maxim magazine or something like that or
and anyway, so kind of going all to place by
the star exam. But when I when I get get
into the base camp, you know, I realized that it's

(40:46):
about daybreak, right, so it's the sun's coming out because
we started so early in the morning. And I go
knock on the hut to tell him that I failed, right,
and I expect them to put me in this like
this thing called the Quitter's corral where they rope this
area off. You sit in front of everyone that's a
big loser when you either quit or we're Yeah, it's
very humiliating, right, This is this is funny, right because

(41:07):
it's so not today's nerve ball, you know, Like I
don't know, I keep on hearing about these weird things
in the army today, but I just know what like
the the private sectors like and all this like DEI stuff.
This is like the opposite of trying to like make
everybody feel good and included, right Like, it's like you failed,
you sit in front of everyone, we humiliate you, right
like everything about specifically.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
The rope says you sit behind the rope, yes.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Like you if you if you thought you were a
loser before, let's make it really clear use a little
or you yeaheah, Let's let's make it absolutely clear to
you that we think you're a loser, right oh man.
And so so I'm expecting that I'm gonna have to
sit in this this crowd, right And one of the instructors,
one of the actually the nicer instructors, comes out and

(41:55):
it's like, hey, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Man?

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Like the starting sampling half over, And I tell him, like,
you know, I lost my rifle and my my uh map.
And I thought he was just laugh and just like,
you know, uh, send me a lot of crowd.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
What are you doing?

Speaker 3 (42:09):
But he actually yeah, but he actually is like, hey, actually,
you know what, even though I remember this very specifically,
he's like, even even though you're an officer, I've been
watching you and you're a good teammate because I was
helping I was trying to help out a lot of
people during the during selection and and uh and all
this stuff, and he's like, you know what, I was
actually hoping that you're gonna you were going to pass.
And he sees that nobody's looking. He goes back grass,

(42:29):
you know, the rifle, grasp another map. He's like, go right,
and I was like, oh ship, And so I had
another least on life, right, so I should start a
hauling ass right, your care to my first points, right, yeah?
And man like I'm going it's like, oh my god,
maybe I'll another chance, right, I mean, like, you know,
we've got I've only got like a few more hours, right, Yeah.

(42:51):
If I just run, you know, I'm not going to
follow any discipline because I just got to just.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Take huge risk because yeah, and get it done right.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
And I don't forget I've got like a I like
this gash wound on my leg, right, so I'm just
like limping. And by the way, this is like two
and a half weeks in the selection, right, that's day
in day out, right. This is this is the army, right,
seven days. Yeah, it's just seven days a week, right,
there's no weekends, you know, like at some other soft

(43:19):
you know, schools and stuff like that, Like this is
just straight through four hours of sleep or lesson night,
two meals a day. You're hallucinating, You're a mountain. You know,
you're you malnutrition, You're losing like ten, you know, ten
twenty thirty pounds start this whole thing. And yeah, I'm
just exhausted right as you're you're heading out and anyway,
so I tell much, I go go for it, you know,

(43:39):
try to skip to the end of the story. Were
basically at the last point that I need to get to.
I've got just a few minutes. I'm so close, so
I can't find it. I throw down the ruck, climb
this tree, right, which you're not allowed to do, right,
and again, I leave my rifles out there on convench tree. Yeah, unconventionable,
like a monkey. Just climb with this tree. Maybe I'll
just see the point, you know, everyone here, Actually I do.

(44:00):
I see the instructor taking the piss right, and I'm like, yes,
it's like one hundred and fifty meters away. I got it.
I jumped down. I started running towards him, and then
the guy like literally, why he's taking the piss is like, candidate,
sit down, time, time's up right, It's been up, so
you know what I mean. And and so I failed
selection the first time with my tailgion like so close,

(44:21):
you know, and even with all the crazy shit that
just happened that story and went back to Korea, that
was one of the worst like ways to return to
that team, you know what I mean. Now my closest
mentor there, Tony Bell was just kind of like, you know,
it's just like he was disappointed, but he didn't like
writ me. There was like some other the dudes are

(44:41):
there that I didn't really like, like that there's an
officer in the unit anyway, but many they were brutal man.
I mean, they're like they had already heard you know,
through their their connections at yeah thero'ugh the Grapevine. They're like,
you lost your rifle. They're like, I mean not even
I mean, guys are not exactly the softest people as
you might imasgine right, They're pretty direct with their feedback

(45:04):
and they're just like not even like oh yeah it
could have happened or you know, try again or anything.
They're just like you suck, you know what I mean,
Like really yeah, yeah, like there's nothing to all to say,
Like how do you lose your rifle. That's the stupidest
thing I've ever heard. It's like yeah, they're like yeah,
it's like they're like, thank god you didn't didn't pass.

(45:25):
You're an idiot, Like you could we could have been
on a team together, Like oh my god, you're such
an idiot. And so so that that was actually a huge,
obviously huge to feed and humility, and also it's just
such a long flight to think about it as well,
right from the North Caroline all the way back to
Korea and you know, and everything like that. So when
I left Korea, continuing in my in my career, then

(45:46):
I went to the Infantry Advanced Course for Captains at
for Benning. And when I was down there, I was
just like just just you know, they don't let officers
go twice usually, Okay, that's the conventional Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you won't hear like a lot of people actually when
they hear the story, they're like, what, how's that possible
officer allowed to go twice? Well, I started when I

(46:07):
started realizing I wanted to try a second time. I
started calling the branch office right and immediately they're like, no,
officers don't get a second chance. Don't don't call back.
And then I was I through like the email system.
I found a civilian lady's name that I realized I
worked in that office, and I called her instead, and

(46:29):
she was just like a friendly lady, right. I just
kind of start building a rapport with her phone, just
kind of like hey, you know, like trying to figure
out the slot, you know what I mean, and then
sort of like just kind of like like not calling
her repeated Like I called her like coming in like
two or three times to ask them questions and try
to see if I sneak my way back in. And
actually the officer who had the major, who had basically

(46:52):
told me that I couldn't come back the first time
that like the second or third time i'd called this lady,
picked up the phone and was like, Lieutenant you I
already told you can't come back, and the like hangs up, right,
And so then I thought it was done right, And
I'm like, okay, okay, I better not get in actual
trouble here, right because it's major, you know whatever. Like
I just thought I was trying to be persistent, you know, like,
and uh, fast forward another like month or two, and

(47:15):
then that major emailed me, is like, you know what
lieutelling you you're a lucky fucking day rights dropped out
a selection. There's no slot here. If you want, I've
got it for you right here, if you show up
and like this is like right when the evanced course
it ended for me. So I was like, if you
show up here like in in in three weeks, you
can have that, you can have a slot. And I
was like, oh damn. And so I had actually been

(47:37):
just from a personal standpoint, because the Star exam and
kicked my ass, and I realized that I was so
bad at land navigation. You know, a couple a few
of the weekends when I was at Benning, I grabbed
one of the like the Benning you know maps, you know,
and topographical maps, and I was going out there practicing
what I hear. So what what they don't a lot
of people don't tell you is like during selection they
actually run some of the best training I'd ever received

(48:00):
on land navigation, actually the very best training I'd ever
seen on land navigation. Right, I never really got trained
very well before I was taught by cadets, you know
what I mean, don't know anything. And and so I
learned a lot while I was there, but you didn't
have the chance to like let it process and sinking,
you know what I mean. Like it was just it's
like you get taught and then you immediately have to
implement it on a test, right, and so it's.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Like it's like what's a peak, what's a valley? You
know you can you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
You know, yeah, exactly, but like really like really letting
like mastering it and really understanding the principles, you know
what I mean, Like, you know, they have a lot
of things that would could be considered a very advanced
techniques for land navigation. You know that that was wasn't
taught like the regular the regular Army, and I had

(48:47):
a chance to like take my time and practice that
you know at Benning. And so when I showed up
for selection again for the start exam, I crushed it.
Man I was the first one to finish out of
my whole class. I got all four points the first
day before the sun even came up, man like. And
I didn't run or anything. I just planned and just
made zero mistakes and just never stopped moving right. It

(49:10):
was just you know what I mean, it was just
like I'm actually quite private because it was just like
like kind of back to our like discussion about combat, sportes, boxing, you.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Know, just fa for me bro it.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, it was just efficient right like that that the
technique was on points right, and it was actually practiced,
and I wasn't worrying about a million other things because
the basics were down to muscle memory at that point
when I've been practicing so much landap and so that
really gave me a lot of confidence as well. Again,
I was just being like, oh, you know, like I'm

(49:40):
not the most natural soldier in the world. I kind
of described how how I struggled so much at West
Point and everything like that. But I started realizing. I
was like, if I'm given enough time, right, maybe I
won't learn it as fast as everybody else. But I'm
given enough time, I can master this. But I just
need a little bit more time than everybody else, right,
And you know that.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
W fair equals unconventional soldier, bro. So you know, you know,
you know, you guys aren't cut of the mold. There's
a song that says one man wins out of a hundred,
you know, I.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Hope, So you know, I hope. So that's where I
ended up. But yeah, that's kind of my story of
selection everything too.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
So yeah, I love that about you. And you know
it's so close to home with dad and everything like that.
He would tell me about going out on seventy two
hours stress tests, like what you're kind of talking about,
and he would be like, you know, there's nothing. So
I do airsoft war games on a large level out
here in Utah and and back in the day in
the early two thousands when he was helping, when he
was still around, he'd be like, you know, I can

(50:37):
see this being practical for like a land NAFT test
because they're always telling you expect contact. Yeah, and he's like,
and Aaron, the last thing I did was ever get
contact except for some guy at a fire pit stoking
a fire saying you're good. Like he's like, where was that?
You know that? Get up and go and like take

(50:58):
cover and return? Why am I wearing face paint? You know,
the whole nine yards? And so he would talk about
how sometimes the points would be like one point here
on the mountaintop and then like point three is right
next to it, right right right, but he still has
to go back down to point two right point three?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah, So I mean that that was always like probably
the hardest thing if you were there for the patrol leader,
whether it be at ranger school or later in the
Q course. You know, it is like you're you're moving
out on your your patrol and then they hit you
with the Ardi sims or something like that, and everybody's
like running like crazy and then to fire you have
to figure out after you've just run and like your

(51:36):
team's all over the place trying to bring it all
back together, and then to figure out where you are
at that point. That was I think where the biggest
challenge to want to have, and that's the aspect of
being able to you were saying like read the read
the converse, like okay.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
That's real. What yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
What like where did we think we were? Like you
have to be accurate where you thought you were number one? Right,
and then you have to guess how far did we run?

Speaker 2 (51:58):
And what director we just want to view But now
we're down here, so wait on be hand, So what
what what Gene and I keep looking at for the
listeners is our fist and your knuckles and the lines
of your fist if you make a fist. It starts
to create a valley, and it starts to create spines
and you know, ridges and saddles. So you can use

(52:18):
that as a quick reference of like what am I
looking at in the terrain. It's a saddle of between
two skills, you know, etce. That's what we're looking at
for those of you listening through any of those mediums
out there. And then you know, I don't want to
like stop talking about your book. I know you wrote
this book because after you got out of the military,
you kind of went through a little bit of a downtime.

(52:39):
You're like, you know, where's all this? You know, how
am I going to finagle myself? And you went and
got lost in the Philippines looking for Evelyn.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Yeah that's right, kind of lost again, right, okay, perfect, Yeah, yeah,
that's fine.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
So I think so, you know, like my story I
think is unique in the sense and I thought we're
telling you because I don't think there's a lot of
SF guys who targeted whatever group they were targeting when
they were on the teams and everything like that. To
have those people kidnap or just be involved in your

(53:15):
life in the post your post life, you know, post
mid life, right. So basically there was a major operation
called Ultimatum that was a battle captain on down in
southern Philippines where we're supposed to take out about forty
of the opposite of leadership, which is like the al
Qaeda Arm of the Southeast Asia or ISIS Arm of
Southeast Asia. But really these days, or even at that time,

(53:37):
they started becoming really just bandits, really just kidnap, kidnap
from ransom groups, but they would use the money, oftentimes
for terrorist activities or just sustaining their livelihoods. And so
three of the guys out of the top forty that
we had failed to take out in the first phase

(53:57):
of this major operation called Operation Ultimatum was Battle Captain
and one of the major planning officers for three of
those guys. Five years later, after I'd already gotten out
of the military, you know this, in late twenty thirteen,
kidnapped a family friend and then killed her husband while
they're vacationing in eastern Malaysia, so Malaysian Borneo. Okay, So

(54:21):
that area, like places where you know, a lot of
the US military saw conflict in the Middle East, is
split up, not really by any sense of they should
have been the separate countries, but just split due to
European colonialism. Right. So, in particular, Malaysia was used to
be Britain's and Philippines used to be Spains, right. And
so where they split the Southern Philippines and Eastern Malaysian Borneo,

(54:46):
they split a group of people there called it used
to be called the Sultanate of Sulu, and the ethnicity
there are called Taosik people, and they speak their own language.
Those are the people and very dominant Muslim Muslim ethnicity.
Those are the people that largely Opposia draws from, and

(55:06):
their nation moves across from the Sulu Archipelago or those
islands over into Eastern Borneo as well. Okay, so for them,
it's like all their people's are just across this you know,
so called international border.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
So where Evelyn was kidnapped was at a resort close
to Sippinon Island, which is a very famous diving site.
I've actually had a chance to go there previous event.
It's definitely the most gorgeous diving that I've ever seen,
but there's a lot of a sense of heightened risk
in there. You can kind of feel it. Right, There's
there's a lot of guys to ak's around. There's a

(55:42):
lot of people staring at you all the time, you know,
looking at the foreigners, stuff like that. So Evelyn was
vacationing in a on her retirement holiday with her her
husband was vacationing on a one of these bamboo still rooms.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
So it's like a little villa right on the hut
out of the water, right, and basically an opposite longboat
came in the middle of the night, came straight up
and yeah, straight up into the into the room. Yeah, yeah,
villa right, shot shot the husband eight times, right, grabbed her,
broke the wrist of the dragging her on the way out.
And it's only twenty or thirty minutes by that speedboat

(56:18):
right back into the Seulo Archipelago across the international border. Right,
and she got sold from subgroup subgroup to subgroup until
she landed at an eighty eighty person camp in Holo
and actually ended up being in an area called mind
Bowe where my first ODA was actually operating out of

(56:38):
during Operation Ultimatum.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
So this is like straight in my Bailey Wick, you
know what I mean In terms of two of my
two of my tours area of operation first group, right
you know, hey, yes, my theater, right, Like I was
a team leader of two teams when I was in SF.
I was a one two ones team leader, which is
a rock team. So my first team, and then I
went over to the SIF or the Commanders and Extremist

(57:03):
Force for the second team, and I did two trips
to to Iraq with those those teams as well. But
what first group is kind of I mean, first group
eventually got into the fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, but
in that two thousands time period, it was all about
the Philippines. And so that's that's one of my aos
or areas operations as well, right. So so so that

(57:26):
was just crazy for me because I was, you know,
at this point in time in my career, like you know,
I'd been had a stint in grad school. You know,
I'd gone to a bank, you know, as an investment
banker for for a year or so. It didn't work out,
you know for me, it didn't fit. Then then I
joined a talenteer that didn't work out for me, you know,
and in in uh in that company as well, and

(57:47):
I was really struggling, like a lot of veterans, I think,
do struggling in a different way. Right, These are not
horrible companies that I was at, a very prestigious welcome shock,
but it was hard for me. I was not having
easy time landing on my feet what I was doing, Like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
It's just it's just just you got to be free, dude.
You got to be able to do you you know what.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Yeah, I did it. I was supposed to be doing,
you know. Yeah, And uh so it's in between jobs
at the time, you know, And and really down down
on myself, you know, felt a lot of guilt as well,
Like I knew I was in my prime, you know,
it felt, man, I'm a prime. I left Green Brads
when I was my prime, you know, like you know
they're still out there, right, you know what I mean.
There's all that like waves of guilt, you know what

(58:28):
I mean, like coming through And and so when Evelyn
got kidnapped and my mom, my mom called me she
was she was coming to visit family in Taiwan at
the time, told me to come out and meet her.
And so when I got into Taiwan, this story was
just like non stop in the news because people don't
get kidnapped in Taiwan, right, Like Asia in general is
a is a very safe place, right a. Taiwan is

(58:50):
one of the safest places in the world, minus the
fact that China has like you know, a thousand.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Wants it right right, right, Taiwan? How about that?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
How about that over there West?

Speaker 2 (59:04):
How about that?

Speaker 3 (59:06):
It's hilarious, that's hilarious West Taiwan.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Yeah, bro me how ma that? Yes?

Speaker 3 (59:18):
So so yeah, so minus this whole World War three scenario,
Taiwan domestically is super safe, man, right, And so people
people in the island blew their minds as something like
this would happen to one of their citizens, right. That's
why it was on the news all the time, right,
I think.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Vation on vacation and a beautiful villa on a water
like with a dive team and all of a sudden
boom pirates or whoever show up. Guys.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
It's just crazy, right, It's a spectacular story, right and
and uh and then also so she her her older
sister okay Went, was classmates with the first Lady of Taiwan,
okay okay Uh. And then part of my story is
that the first lady is married of course to the
President of Taiwan, who is at that time was my uncle, right,

(01:00:06):
so that's my my mother's older brother, right, So yeah,
Royalty's not there. It's crazy. So so her even though

(01:00:27):
she wasn't that connected to him, the Taiwan media is
very much like Papa Roxi, right, and so they created
this link because also they just couldn't imagine, like how
could it be a random kidnapping like that It was
totally random, right, but how could it be random? And
so the media blew it up in a much bigger
story as well. And the irony, of course is that
she didn't actually ever have much of a connection to
the President Taiwan, but the story did when I got involved, ironically, right,

(01:00:52):
like naively, when I got involved, then it became a
very direct connection in the actual presidency. But uh, and
that's my own naivete as well, because is you know,
most of my life, like I know, I know my
uncle quite well now, you know, because I spent a
lot of time in Asia or in Asia and Taiwan
visiting in my post in real life. But when I
was growing up, I only met him maybe once or twice,

(01:01:13):
you know, as a child, and I didn't speak very
much Chinese when I was growing up, right, and he
mostly speaks Chinese because he's most of my family all
moved over to the States, and all my cousins, I mean,
were all born in the US and grew up in
the US, and then just him basically stayed in Taiwan.
And so his English is really really good. But when
he came to visit the station just a couple of times,

(01:01:35):
it was all in Chinese, and you know, there's that
distance between you know, the generations the center. So I
really didn't know him, like I really didn't know him,
you know, and and so yeah, but anyway, so this
this connection is very loose for Evelyn to to him,
but the media had made such a big story. It

(01:01:55):
was all over the news. And so when I got
to Taiwan, my mom my mom is her one of
her closest friends is the older sister of Evelyn Chang, right,
her name is Angela, And so they were in Taiwan.
She lives in Florida, and she had come back to
try to help like just whatever from the family side
of just helping arrange like what were this crisis, And

(01:02:17):
so I went to go They had asked if, like,
does you know anything about what's going on down this
part of the world. And I was like, at that point,
we didn't know as appasa, but I was had a
pretty good guest.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Based off what it happened, is probably those guys part of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Those guys, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
So he's got a few men.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
So met her of breakfast, and I came quickly to
realize because Taiwan's not a recognized country, right, it's even
though it is completely operating as a freely independent country, right,
its own government, it's democratic, democratic, its own military, its
own currency. You know, everything China has choked has gotten
the whole world, you know in the United States degree,

(01:02:57):
that's not right. So it doesn't have any real dimlomatic
relations with except for like I think it's like Haiti
or something like some really random small countries like around
the world, maybe like single digits. And so there's no
relationship between Taiwan and Philippines formally, right in that in
that sense, and so there's no leverage, you know, from
the Taiwanese government and be like, yo, help our citizen

(01:03:18):
that's been kidnapped, right, And came to quickly realize they
had no nobody was helping them, right, it was. It
was literally like just this like loose Interpol connection and
me knowing and understanding that at that at that point
is some you know knowledge right of the Philippine military
and Philippine police. I'm like, wow, this is a really
bad situation. Like nothing's going to happen here, right, nobody's

(01:03:39):
getting every went out right, and Taiwanese lost it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
It's like what season the Jungle somewhere? Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Yeah, So so I realized in that moment, I was like, wow,
out of like it's not that I'm a good option here,
but you have no options. And suddenly, out of all
these shitty options, I guess I'm the least shitty, right,
and again I'm completely available for like the first time
of my entire life.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
You've been sorted.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Yeah, have been great? Yeah, exactly the verse. Yeah, A
lot of ways, right, like even today, this event has
happened now ten years later, a lot of things I
think about now and I talk about this in my writing.
It's like it's almost like my entire life in many ways,
you could you could quantify all of the events in
our lives happened and then came to the point of

(01:04:29):
this event in your life. But really, because there's such
a magnitude of this when you look at my whole
life of how happenstance it was that I ended up
at somehow, at West Point, somehow, you know, into into
SF and these experiences and all that type of stuff
after this event occurred, and even today sometimes I think
that the entire point of my life right was just
to rescue everyone check, you know what I mean, Like
just to get her out, you know what I mean,

(01:04:50):
Like in a weird, funny way of the cosmic fates
of the universe, of everything that had happened led to
this to.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Be that rescue element for her because there would be nobody.
You were the one, you know, like nobody else is around?
Is anybody else to go down the trail? Here about with.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
The context and the experience, and it's like it's you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
And again the fact that I was unemployed at the time,
you know what I mean, Like if I was still
at the bank, you know, at Credit Swiss or a
pound me, like I probably would have been like, hey,
that really sucks, Like what a horrible situation, and maybe
made a phone call to maybe right and then it
would have stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
But it was like because I was completely available both
your call, yeah, my mom calls.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
It's like, I'm gonna get Jean. Don't you worry about it.
Everything we find he's that one entrepreneur phase.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
Well, that one so Asian Asian mom. After we met,
she said, you better not think about doing anything to
help them, right, like even though it was a friend, right,
you don't put you don't put her son and into risk,
you know, for for this, right. Yeah, And it was
very touchy. So actually, the whole time that I was
in the Philippines working on this, I was actually lying

(01:06:06):
to my mom telling her I was in I was
somewhere else. I was in Hong Kong, hanging out with
my buddies, right, and you know what I mean. It
wasn't until after everything that I that I confided to her,
And actually even in my time in SF, when I
was in Iraq and stuff like that, I just tell
her I was in Okay, now, right, everything's fine, Yeah,
everything was fine, right, like this sort of thing. So, yeah,

(01:06:27):
I don't wanted to worry, you know, but.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
She knew you were a reen Beret, right, she understood.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
What that was right. No, I don't know, right, just
I'm just some. I'm just some like little her boy.
I'm just a little boy. Yeah, sound like a mama's boy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah. Even now right, she's like, you're going, is your
mom still with us? Yeah? She is good for you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Yeah, I love her there and thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yes, I love from me on behalf and my parents.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
You know, I appreciate that I caught that. And yeah, no,
I appreciate saying that, right, I do appreciate her. So
so you know, I'll try to fast forward through the story.
But because obviously I'll leave something to the reader for
the book.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
They should go get this book and look at look
at if you're listening to us talk, it's called the
second shot. Okay. The book is the second shot. Okay,
by Gene. You if you've gone this long, the second shot, this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Whole interview with the second shot, you're still with us
for some reason after.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yes, you're still here having a good time with us,
you know, the second shot. Yeah, theater soon.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
I mean a long story short. Actually I'll share the
information on that in a second. But so the long
story short of of it is basically that I was
able to get connected up through West Point and s
F contacts to the Filipino Scout Rangers, and they actually
ended up having assets in the camp that everyone was
held at. And to cut to the chase, there was

(01:08:02):
a lengthy, very very high intense you know, and like
at this point, I have no experience at kidnapping ransom negotiations,
and I'm just doing my best, you know, to It's
it's like the ultimate battle of wits. Right, It's like
it's the ultimate heads up poker, one on one, right,
there's no other hands. It's gonna be one hand. We're
betting it all. Both sides like Times of the Essence,

(01:08:22):
Times of the Essence. Right, There's both sides have pressure,
right because on their side, on their side, they're like, man,
I'm running the risk every single day that I'm holding
onto this, this this hostage. Right, I got to feed her.
You know, the military is looking for me, police are
looking for me. Right, I got to offload this and
get my money and get out of dodge. Right. Then,
of course, on your side, you're worried about the hostage.

(01:08:43):
You know. There's it's it's an ultimate like I just
consider that how I describe it's an ultimate battle of wits,
you know what I mean of a of a trade.
You know it's one time, right, and you're never gonna
do business again. It's just who can screw each other
over and win on one side? Right. So So anyway,
long story short, that's I go through the whole story
of the negotiation and the various the various ups and

(01:09:06):
downs of that. During the exchange, we were operating out
of a basically Filipino CIA safehouse and an Australian intelligence
operative who was working up there as well. We were
able to build some I was able to convince them
to give us a one of their tracker and logger devices,

(01:09:26):
so we inserted that into the actual exchange of ransom
cash and electronics equipment they wanted and basically vectored in
the scout rangers. They hit them right after the exchange,
and it basically over the lapt the next few months destroyed,
basically destroyed that whole group. And I've actually only been
been briefed by the it's called NIKA, the National Intelligence Coordination,

(01:09:48):
see the Filipino CIA. Like about a year ago. I
went to go visit them and they unloaded the entire story.
Because now it's ten years et cetera. It's gonna be
fully declassified, they said in twenty thirty two, but they're
able to share a lot of the details. I didn't
even know right until very recently about all the operation
has spawned off of this tracker and logger that ended

(01:10:09):
up being I believe the most one of the most
successful operations gainst Asia, right, and just lucky to be honest, right,
and as I get it, you know, but yeah, you know,
like it wasn't really me, it was that, you know.
But the domino effect though, the domino effect's just a
really interesting just again the certendipity of it, all right,
And and the three guys that that we that we

(01:10:31):
missed that operation ultimate in the kidnapped Evelyn, every single
one of them got taken out right like in in
individual operations or the or the actual full on company
scout ranger assault. You know that they hit the camp
with over and over with that you know, being able
to track them with that tracker and logger that we
put on them. So so that's that's basically the story, right,
And just that ended up being the lead into how

(01:10:51):
I created my company Black Pane today, right where thirty
million US dollars in venture capital now right, Like this
story basically gave me this known variety here in Asia
as like the guy that put this together, and basically
investors and people with money were very interested, are like, hey,
you like you seem like a competent individual. What are
you doing now?

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Hey?

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
And then you know, my co founder and chairman of
my company is actually a former Green Beret who is
a big boss at Credit Swiss Matt Peco. And he's
the first guy. Basically twenty fifteen, it's like, Hey, Gene,
I want to start a company with you called Black Panda.
I want to put a million US dollars. You want
to come over and run it. It's like hell, yeah,
right right, you know, and then partner with him, and
ten years later, I'm still running this company. We've got

(01:11:31):
offices all over Asia and we're leading one of the
leading cybersecurity companies out here. So all of this to
your point earlier is I can share this. They told
me that you know I could share this is that
we're in discussions with Temple Hill Entertainment, the producers behind
Mais Runner and first Man. You know, it's a pretty
major guy's Marty bad and John Fisher. So yeah, and

(01:11:56):
then do you know the actor Simoulu from shang Chi
and the Marvel character, like there's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
A oh yeah, yeah, yeah I do, I do.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Yeah, he's in discussions as well to be the lead
actor for the for a Phone story.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
So there that's a part of a big beard anywhere
in your book. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Actually, you know what's funny, there is a character actually
the story that you could actually will cut just five
seventy it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
Yeah, that's a character called the Viking. But yeah, yeah, yeah,
thanks man. Yeah. So it's kind of a I mean,
obviously it's it's obviously fun fun to to be going
through all this, but I think it's an interesting story
to share as well and just kind of tie. But
that that's really why the book kind of came around,
was because in order to do to have a shot

(01:12:43):
at maybe making a film, we had to write a book,
you know, because honestly, I'll be straight up you know,
like I didn't have some burning desire to come around
and tell the story so much. I mean, I do
have agendas in terms of want to tell the story
for different reasons. One of the reasons I want to
show the heroism as well the Philip. You know, Nika
operatives were actually the ones who went in. There's a

(01:13:03):
whole christ story, but how they went in and got
it done and everything like that, and did it for
me as a stranger as well. Right, I met him
basically just a few days prior, and they just completely
put the careers like right away.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
Left the line, immediately felt the brotherhood and you were
just like this is the case, and they're like we
got you. Uh yeah, so cool. Jumped out of hot
air balloons too, man, that's dope. My dad did as well. No,
he's got the jump wins with the elephant on him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
From yeah you know, yeah, that's the way I jumped
out of the ones in Thailand too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Oh yeah, no, not to go back away. So oh
you jumped out of Thailand and yeah, yeah. His theater
was the Southeast, it was it was all of the Pacific.
That was my nineteenth group. So okay, God, how to Utah?

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
That's what that's right, that's right. It's headquartered out of Draper, right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
That's right. So yeah you say it like you know it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
I would say, no, I read it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
He's like Draper right over the It's like right there.
I live like ten minutes from it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
I've been through Utah a few times because I know Draper.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
It's okay. It's where it's at. That is camp all day,
nineteenth SF all day, no beret zone and no salute zone.
It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
Yeah, no salute zone. Man, hands and pockets all day. Right,
So pretty much? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Well, Jean, you've lived a cool life so far. Bro.
You've chased yourself. You're constantly reinventing yourself. And I think
that what you didn't mean to do by doing this,
writing the book and now possibly having you know, talks
about the movies and having your successful black Panda company.

(01:14:40):
It wasn't something that you really saw then as the
young Jen. It just was a culmination of everything that
you've gone through and here you are today.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
I mean, thanks man.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
I really love this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
This speech that Steve Jobs gave in two thousand and
five and commenced the speech at Stanford, and he talks
about how you can't connect the dots forward, right. You
can't look and plant it forward of what you're going
to do and then put it all together. You can
only connect the dots backwards when you look backwards, right.
And that's a part of all this as well as
when I look at the various different things that I've
done and just kind of wandered into accidentally, like how

(01:15:13):
do you all stitch that together and make it work
for you today? Right, It's not about making the right
decision back then. You know, it's impossible really at the
end of the day to always make the right decision.
It's just make it right afterwards, right, to make it
work for you. And that's why this book's called the
second Shot. Right when as a student at US Army
Sniper School, I remember the instructure is emphasizing right, It's like,

(01:15:34):
it's not yeah, the unofficial model is one shot, one kill.
But it's not about hitting it on the first shot,
because over a long distance, there's no way, like the
wind is going two different directions, three different directions. You know,
over a long distance, the curvature of the earth, even
the temperature is going to change how that bullet flies.
So if you hit it on the first shot at
long distance, it's really lucky. It's frankly, it's just luck

(01:15:54):
that you got on the first shot. It's about how
fast you can adjust the winds, the elevation with your
spot or on the second shot, the shows how good
that sniper team really is, right, And I love that
because I think of that as a kind of a metaphor,
you know, for how my life was in terms of
failing everything the first time and then just keeping calm,
you know, lock and loading that next round and then
just getting in and target the second shot, right. And

(01:16:16):
so so that's how I try to look at look
at all this and why I called the book the
Second Shot, uh, you know, because I'm not I'm not
out there trying to pound my chest, is you know,
I consider myself a very have been a very average parade,
all all things told and said. But but there's even
this story here of missing the first time and reloading
the second time and coming after it is that's the

(01:16:36):
story I wanted to share with folk. You know. I
also again, uh, you know that the proceeds from this
book even you know, it's basically all the revenue proceeds
I've been pushing towards interests for those NIKA operatives that
they wanted like a gun, like they wanted like equipment
for their unit. I took them to Taiwan right to
you know, on a on a trip out there right
with what little you know money I was helping to

(01:16:58):
get off of this this book, you know, all this
type of stuff you're trying to do, do it for
those reasons and and uh and kind of bring bring
attention to the heroes and that they provided. I mean,
I'm still humbled.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
By that aspect, right unless the NIKA Rangers is that
how we're calling them.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
Yeah, so there's there's two units. It's it's it's very
similar to US Defense apparatus, right, So the NIKA would
be the CIA, so national intelligence coordinations we see, and
then the Scout Rangers would be like the Ranger Regiment, right,
and so yeah, so they and they've got like basically
the same units in parallel of comparison.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
And ortoons battalions. They're like delpt out, just like kind
of we are.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Yeah, well they said, they're like they've got their Tier
ones and their Tier two's, and you know, it's it's
modeled exactly after the US military because the long history
between the two and and so intertwined as well, and
so critical strategically with Philippines right right south of Taiwan
and everything like that too, right, So oh yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
I know it's very it's very sensitive area and beautiful people,
beautiful country. Uh, there's bad actors and they need to
be sniffed out and it would be you know, and
then if we can help them as well from the
US side, and you know, just continue to pump in
revenue to that country and not take it, take their
resources and leave them with a Coca Cola sign. We

(01:18:19):
just like take care of them, please, because they're beautiful people.
All right. I love a Doo's gonna do most my
favorite bro. So nonetheless, I'm saying, thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
Dad, Oh he brought you brought that into your life.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Well, yeah, we grew up in a in a Mormon
church in California, and so uh in Stockton, and there
was a there was some Filipino families and some Samoans
and different families that went to church. So I just
grew up eating different fit food, you know, from my
mom and dad's friends. We'd go to their houses and
it's like here's I'm adobo, you know, and I'm like,
it's my favorite. And then my mom would just make

(01:18:56):
it all the time. And then we go over to
our friends who are sman and they feed us like
rice pudding and like all sorts of good food. And so, yeah, bro,
I grew up in a diverse life. My parents, even
though we were raised in the church, kind of had
a outside of Utah. It was different. I'm not trying
to get into this conversation, but I'm grateful for I'm
grateful for the food that I was able to eat. Yes,

(01:19:19):
I love a dude.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
That's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
I remember the Internet is forever, so I gotta watch it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
The other things want to say, Yeah, that's right. My
own advice.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Right now, I'm gonna wind us down, Jean. I've had
you for over an hour. I know you're in Singapore
and you're like, I got you for some time, and
I've taken much of your time. But you've been awesome, dude,
and you're always walking back on the show. If you
ever want to get back on and talk deeper about
Black Panda, you know, and put that out there as
just something we can work spread.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
I mean, one of the things about Black Panda two
is you know the co founders are all s F guys, right,
so we were all can now SIFF guys. Actually now,
Matt was ahead of us by seventeen years. But the
other co founder, Kevin McCaffrey, He was actually on my
team when we went to Baghdad together, and then we
actually co founded the company together, so it's actually an

(01:20:15):
SF founded company. You know, we just stayed out in Asia.
We kind of we like to privately call ourselves like
forward deployed still, you know what, like yeah, after we're right,
we're like on the front lines out here in cyber
out here in Asia.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Well, I have you right now, I have you right now.
So who's your client? Who would you want to reach
out to? Black Panda? Who is that person that would
be interested? Let's just put that sure? Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:20:39):
I mean our kind of a specialization. I would say
in the sector that looks for cybersecar the most are
like finance and banking, like banks, you know what I mean,
or just basically the folk of the finance sector because
they're regulated to the guys who've got the money.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
So yes, hackers are company and that want to steal
their money. Right, So those are the guys that we
probably protect and we specialize cybersecurity in essentially a crisis response, right,
which is the whole team in my career and I
realized not again on purpose, right, but both in public
service personal situations and now private sector. It's it's all
the same to me, you know, in terms of responding

(01:21:16):
when when something bad bad goes, and that's basically what
our company does. Right. We're the leading company for across
across the region out here.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
Yeah, so if any of my listeners out there are
in the finance industry and they're looking for somebody to
help safeguard their cybersecurity, you should reach out to Black Panda,
that's right, and the group and Matt, who's seventeen years
older than everybody else.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Yeah, right, he's the youngest. He's the youngest dude out
of the three of us though, like in terms of
spirit and attitude and securely the most is the most
fit too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
He's like ripped right now. But you figured it out out.
We've never met Matt, but I'm sure we will and
you're more than welcome to come out here too, and
we could talk about age is just the number, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
Yeah, that was cool. People come out to Utah to
do an in person or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
Yeah, so pre COVID, you know, I was always doing
a lot more in person. I had a studio I
was using through Black Rifle Coffee Company back in the day.
They're here in Utah. So they're like, Rad, bring your
guests in here, and yeah, it was way more personal.
And then COVID and then now this medium is here
and we've built I have built something off of this
with soft Rep. And there's you know, folks that reply

(01:22:21):
to me and the former generals that write me reviews
like Rad, that was a good episode. I liked how
you treated the guy with his question. I'm like, if
these guys are sending me these emails from LinkedIn ands
and I'm like, all right, you're good to go. I'm
gonna keep doing it. But if you ever came to Utah,
we could set up a thing where it's one on
one on a snowboard lift and we would just strap
in and go snowboarding.

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
I don't know if you do well, let's do snowboard.
I'm sure as good as Utah. But yeah, I just
I can board. Yeah, oh yeah, I mean I think
madd and Kevin would love to come on. You know
what I mean, because it's it's we've got some crazy
stories as well as you might imagine from when we
founded Black Pandemic. Oh of course, you know, guys just.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Like well you and I just did you know how
we just kind of like went through the dosey dough
of how how nice to meet you, you get to know you?
You want to play contra? You know what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
Up?

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Down?

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
Updown?

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
You know I turned that into a punching. I turned
so my coach would be like, all right, everybody, next minute,
free bag. I'm like up down, down, left, right, left, right,
B A B A slet start.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
Hey, that's probably a great combination, man, Yeah, up, up, down, down,
you know, head buddy Boddy, you know, left right, and
then I use my six and sevens or like you
know my over the tops is my B A B
A slex.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Start I do. That's cool man, it is it is
And you're cool and you're cool, and you know what
I'm gonna I'm gonna close our show off on a
cool note like that. And if anybody wants to know
about Black Panda Group, go check it out. If you
want to know about the second shot written by Gene
youn or ge Gene you excuse me, I was gonna say,
former Green Beret Special Forces West Point graduate, uh second

(01:23:56):
Armor Officer, tank commander sable rounds down range uop, thank
you so much. On behalf of myself and Brandon Webb
who runs the website Anton. Thank you for everything you do,
Chris and everybody that's making these cool reels out there
that I get to share on social media. I appreciate

(01:24:16):
you guys chopping it all up and making us look awesome.
That'll happen to you too on this episode, so look
for that, and thank you on behalf of my guest gen.
And this is Rad saying peace.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
You've been listening to self Repreadia

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Gene Yu, Former Green Beret, Author of The Second Shot and CEO of Blackpanda Group

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