Lieutenant (SEAL) Rob Sarver and Alex Gendzier, Authors of Warrior to Civilian

Lieutenant (SEAL) Rob Sarver graduated from the US Naval Academy in 2004. He initially served as a surface warfare officer and ultimately as a Navy SEAL assigned to SEAL Team 3, completing seven deployments during his service. He completed three tours in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and two tours in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Rob's awards and decorations include the Bronze Star Medal with a combat "V" device and oak leaf cluster, the Combat Action Ribbon with a gold star device, and various additional personal and unit accolades. Since his departure from the military in 2013, Rob has held various leadership and executive roles and earned an Executive MBA from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business. Currently, Rob is the Co-Founder of Servius Group and serves as the Co-CEO and Co-Founder of The Heroes Journey, LLC. 

Alex Gendzier is a partner at Seyfarth Shaw LLP, where he is involved in veterans affairs. Although Alex has no personal military experience, he feels a connection to them through his own journey of overcoming the odds, experiencing painful losses and making life-changing transitions and the five years of research and interviews that went into this Field Manual. His sense of his own successes and failures, as well as his desire to make a contribution to our service members and their families, led him to collaborate with Rob Sarver.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Lots. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.
You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and
straight talk with the guys in the community.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to another awesome episode of soft Rep Radio. I
am the host rad and you have tuned in once again,
and if you're new, welcome to the show. All right now,
first off, before I introduced my two guests today, So
we have a threesome going on here, okay, which I
heard is what the macarena stands for, which you didn't know, Hey,
Macharina the dance it's supposed to be something about a threesome.

(01:03):
So we have a threesome today. And what we're gonna
what we're gonna do is we're talking about the merch
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slash merch Go check out the merch store, pick up
some branded items that say soft Rep and we love
the support and it really helps to keep the fireplace going.
Number two is our book club and it's soft Rep
dot Com Forward slash book hyphen Club. And I know

(01:25):
Brandon Webb and the guys behind the scenes are putting
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go check out the book club through soft rep dot com.
Now I'm gonna introduce these two gentlemen here as soon
as I read this little excerp here about the book
that they're gonna talk about. Well, let me just introduce, okay,

(01:45):
So for I have former Seal Lieutenant Rob Salver s
excuse me, Rob Sarver, and I have Alex gen Zier. Okay,
now let me just read this real quick. A compassionate,
practical guidebook for veterans transitioning from active duty to civilian life,
for the loved ones and supporting their journey. Challenging yet reassuring.

(02:07):
A key addition to every veterans packing list. Stan McCrystal,
General US Army, retired and co founder and CEO of
the McCrystal Group. He left you a review about this
book that we're going to talk about, which is called
A Warrior to Civilian and I have again former Seal
Lieutenant Rob Sarver and Alex Genzer, the authors. Welcome to

(02:31):
the show. Thank you so much, Ed, thank you for
having us, Hey, thank you for being on the show,
and thanks to Dina for having you. Get on the show.
Really appreciate the reach out.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, very generous of her and very generous of you.
We take any and all chances to talk about our
book and our sense of mission.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yes, and your book is up for pre order right now.
So the book that we're talking about, you can go
on to Amazon. In fact, let me just let me
just pretend that I'm listening to the show at the
same time, and I'm just going to go right out
of Amazon here and check out this book, Warrior to Civilian,
the Field Manual for the Hero's Journey, and you can
pre order it right now. So go check out Warrior

(03:13):
to Civilian and get on the list that comes out
in what about January twenty twenty five? Is that what
we're thinking, Yes, end of January twenty end of January. Now, Rob,
as someone who's transitioned from the military life into civilian life,
let's talk about the first part of the transition, which
is the civilian to military. Okay, so here you are

(03:36):
as a young man, as a civilian who is now
going to join the military. How old were you when
you decided this is my calling. I'm going through the
military joining the Navy.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
May I think my journey, my call to adventure, if
we stick to the hero's journey from Joseph Campbell, really
started when I was eighteen, and I guess I needed
more punishment. I went to two different military colleges and
spent five years in military college. So I did one
year at Virginia Military Institute and I transferred to the
Naval Academy. And that's my Annapolis, right, Annapolis? Yes, So

(04:11):
my journey started eighteen.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Eighteen years old. And what was your focus of studies
going in? So did you go to West.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Point no vm? I for a year Virginia Military.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Institute, So what was your goal? You're like, Okay, I'm
going to join the military, but my degree is going
to be.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
Start electrical engineering. And then when I transferred the Naval Academy,
I switched to computer science. And then it was actually
on September eleventh, I switched again. I remember switching my
classes to oceanography right before the planes hit the tower.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
No kidd, and so didn't even see that. So you
were just choosing classes.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Well I did. I got out of class early to
go switch my major. So I was walking back to
my company area and I saw people running towards kind
of the common space of the ward room to watch
the TV. And that's when the planes hit.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, they're probably quick pace moving to it. What's going on?
What's going on? Holy cow? That's about yeah, eight something
in the morning. And I remember where I was on
nine to eleven. And so here you are at a
college ROTC going through military it's being put into you.

Speaker 4 (05:17):
Right, yes, yes, the morning. So the Naval academy.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
What do you think? And like, when do I go? Right,
how do I deploy? You're like in the Naval Academy?

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Right, it's like, yeah, I mean some of the first
thoughts were Okay, this became very real. You know, what's
what's going on? Obviously everybody star for information and then
but then there was also the realization that I still
had two and a half years to finish, yeah, before
I would have my chance.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Jeez. So did you go straight from did you have
a sealed contract? No?

Speaker 4 (05:50):
I I tried to have a normal civilian college experience
in a military college and that doesn't usually work out well.
So I stood a lot of restriction marching around with
a rifle, and I missed a few holidays in there,
and no, I had to kind of go grow up
for a little bit in big Navy.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Okay, did you ever do laundry in the Navy? Like
on a ship? Like?

Speaker 4 (06:17):
No, I was the I was the first lieutenant on
a frigate. So everything painting the ship, busting up rust,
helicopter operations, shipboarding operations, that was all that all fell
to me.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
So very cool. My dad was a calms guy on
a frigate in Vietnam in the Navy. Yeah, yep, yep, yep,
that was pretty good. Then he transferred into the SF
and became a Green Beret later in life.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
But wow, smart yeah, smart man.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, I mean, hey, you know, I always asked him,
didn't you have to have two languages to be a
s F? He's like, does Morris Code not count as
a second? I was like, but I hear you say
Russian all the time around the house, but never like
directly at me, Dad, Like, what's going on here?

Speaker 4 (06:58):
You know, it was a very competitive year two thousand
and four coming out of the Naval Academy, so I
had to go do my time big Navy for a
couple of years.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah. So the Global War on Terror was already kicked off. Yes,
now you're deployed out into the fleet as a lieutenant
or no, as an ensign? Right, would that be an ensign?
And so the rank of lieutenant is that like a
lieutenant commander, that'd be like a major maybe in an
army In five?

Speaker 4 (07:25):
No three, I got three, it's like a captain.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
Captain.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Okay, just to put in perspective from my own thought process. Now, now,
how did you and Alex meet together? Can I get
this little relationship? Because here you are in the navy
and I know Alex.

Speaker 5 (07:42):
Go ahead, Rob and I met through common friends and work.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
We were working together on a bunch of stuff. I
think that we found a friendship, a kinship. My belief
about if you've been around the block in life is
that if you find kindred spirits and you start talking,
it goes pretty deep, pretty fast. We started talking about
life transition, recovering from loss, what it means to grow

(08:12):
and kind of become the man you're meant to be
if you can do that. And part of the output
of those conversations over over beers late at night was really,
how do we make a contribution if we can to veterans.
It just came up kind of naturally, and I think
the thing that fueled it in the beginning, which we

(08:35):
find interesting and unique in terms of the books that
are out there, is that while Rob and I couldn't
have had more different backgrounds and places we came from,
we had an utter commonality in life experience once you
took off the labels, and how we went through it,
how we attempted to grow. I think our sense of

(08:57):
having failed and succeeded a different point in life and
what it means to put these things not for yourself
but for others in an attempt to serve others in
some way that I think we're all meant to do
and gives meaning to your life. So, gosh, Rob, you're
used to my long answers.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
What would you add a subtract to that?

Speaker 4 (09:20):
I would add. Alex and I were working at a
private equity shop. He was the general counsel. I was
a director working there, and I had no experience on
the debt side of the house, private term loans and credit.
So Alex kind of took me under his wing and
was we were doing weekly calls as he would teach
me the markets on that side. But conversations, like Alex said,
soon shifted over to the commonality. He started asking how

(09:43):
I dealt with some of these transitions in life coming
out of the military, losing a lot of friends in
combat and training. And after those many conversations, he told
me more and more about his personal experiences, his personal loss.
He came back probably about a month later, he said, Hey, Rob,
we should really memorialize everything that you've been through helping

(10:06):
vats transition. Like they're already reaching out to you privately,
like why don't we put everything that you've been taught
into a book? And then let's let's put some more
substance around this. Let's give them some frameworks to work through.
Let's give them tell them what they're about to experience
when they come out.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Exactly, which is why you guys call it the FM
the Field Manual. Right, It's like, right there, we all
know Field Manual. Look at the FM. Did you r
T FM? Did you you know? I'm not going to
break that acronym down, but if you know what it
is coming down below? Okay, because Warrior to Civilian the
Field Manual for the hero's journey. I believe you guys

(10:42):
want to talk about how you enlist and how like
you did swear an oath rob and you did go
in and uh and and then you get out. It's like, okay,
is it all on me? Did I go get everything
checked off with the range to make sure that I'm
a good shooter? Did I go get all these things
checked off by all these people in the military that
that maybe does matter to the outside transition. And here

(11:03):
you are trying to focus on all these things when
you should be focusing on like maybe you know, getting
a secondary lane opened up for yourself outside of the military.
But everybody seems to transition out of the military still
in the military, like it's like, oh, go here, go here,
go here, But somewhere you have to take the exit
off the freeway, you know, and realize that you have to.

(11:23):
Now you're like, okay, where am I now? And you're
kind of like in this uncharted area that you've been
used to and the VA system, the veteran's administration system,
the benefit system, everybody always hears it's a nightmare, but
it's a better than not having anything at all. Okay,
which is out there? Okay, there is something and b

(11:43):
you know, just applying yourself at a younger age as
you transition out probably helps you better than when you're older,
and you should have done it when you were younger.
And I mean, like some of the troops that do
get wounded or get injured, or may have some mental
health issues that they don't dare go get checked out,
Like they don't dare to go get a colonoscopy because
they just feel embarrassed or it's something they don't want
to talk about. But you know, it's it's just help,

(12:06):
it's preventative. So I guess I'm just trying to say,
help us understand from your guys' thoughts on how this
prevented it, Like how we can help with this book,
you know.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, I think and Alex you know, jumping here too,
because very early on we spoke with commands Egeant Major
Tom Satterley, who's over at Delta for a long time,
and what you just said, we spend all this time
in the military training for a specific task or mission,
operation whatever it is, you know, to align to some
sort of strategic strategy, you know, the why, being serviced

(12:39):
the constitution, and we transition out. But but he made
a really good point is we do nothing to train
to get out, and this is a different terrain. This
is a different purpose in our lives. This is a
completely new language, and we do nothing to really prepare
for that, and that really hit us very early on
as we start a drafting and outlining this book, Alex,

(13:02):
is anything you want to add what Tom said to
that point.

Speaker 5 (13:05):
Yeah, I think that's at the heart of it.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
And let me also read forgive me for detouring for
one second. For veterans and their spouses listening, I want
to say, with great humility, I never had the honor
of serving Rob, and I spent the last five years
devoted to this book and our sense of mission to
help veterans and their families.

Speaker 5 (13:28):
And so when I speak with.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Rad with Rob on this podcast, I hope you get
a sense of my humility about not having served and
not wanting to tell you about stuff that I've never done.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
Rob, you hit the nail on the head.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think that essential insight that nothing has prepared you
for leaving the military in the way you did for
training for a mission. And you know, we've done hundreds
of interviews, We've read every book and article out there,
and we saw patterns.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
One of the patterns.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
That fits through almost every chapter is that few if
any are prepared for this life transition. So what lessons
can we bring from our own failures and attempted successes,
from our research, from hearing the most moving stories, imaginable
stories that left us in tears, would leave anyone in

(14:25):
tears also with great inspiration and hope. It's not just tears.
How can we do that? How can we use.

Speaker 5 (14:31):
That in service of veterans and their families?

Speaker 3 (14:35):
And because this transition for many is like, as we've
come to use this expression, it's like stepping off a cliff.
It's like stepping off a cliff into the unknown for
any of us, no matter how rough and tough, that
is a challenge that.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
Can be scary.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
And so our book is an attempt to do just
what Rob said, is to help folks prepare.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
And train for it.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
And that's really one of the essential intermost parts of
it that we have attempted to pull together for veterans
and their families in a way that we don't think
exists out there.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well. And even Stan McCrystal, right, General McCrystal says, you know,
take this, read this if you're transitioning out, you know,
use this as a field manual for you know, a
template to give you some kind of idea of what
you know you can transition into and out of, et cetera.
I do recall, like my dad, you know, being a
medically discharged at forty one years old. I remember this.

(15:37):
So I'm from a young family. I was probably about
you know, thirteen fourteen when that was going down, and so,
you know, my mom became basically the VA and the
veteran's advocate. So she was the one that helped push
you know, the paper's work through for disability ratings and
denials come through. And then she wouldn't let that be

(15:59):
the last denial. She would say that's not the case,
and then they would approve it, you know, deny, denied, approve.
Nothing was changed, bro, I just resent it each time,
you know. So here I am watching my mom later
in her life, in her sixties, pushing my dad in
his sixties around the VA, right, and it's wearing her out.
But he's already worn out now, green beret marathon runner,

(16:23):
broken down heart issues. You know, no one new to
check his heart at thirty six, thirty nine, forty years old.
He's still active duty green beret, which is like what
you would think guys in your position, you know, extreme athletes,
someone who's been nurtured and you know, and grown into
this elite operator, you would think that they would run
you through some system ops of like let's check your

(16:45):
health every two months, you know, just make sure that
the CT scans going around you and you're getting your
heart checked. Because you guys are the cream of the crop.
Why are we not and why are we not taking
care of that right? First of all? On second, why
isn't the government really stepping up to the plate to
really present more than just like an eight hundred number.

(17:05):
If you've called the VA recently, I have, it was
an hour and fifteen minute hold, hour and fifteen to
get through to get because you know, as a fiduciary
for things in my life, I have to go through
these PROCs hour and fifteen minutes. So it's kind of
like it it makes you not even want to do it.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Right, You're hitting out a lot of things there, so
you I mean, you look at you know that the
annual turnover you know folks transitioning out of the military
is roughly twenty percent, so you're dealing a couple hundred
thousand up to June and fifty thousand a year transitioning
out of the military. So, yes, there are great resources
out there, you know, the VA and the government does
they've tried to put those resources in place, but there's

(17:45):
this too many of us getting out. There's too many,
you know, for twenty years of this asymmetric warfare environment
we've been at with the PTSD, Moral injury TBI, there's
there's too much for the system to handle. So you
see that and all the nonprofits that are popping up.
If you just take a step back and there's I
think there's roughly forty thousand nonprofits in the United States

(18:07):
to help veterans, and there's a lot of there's a
lot of other ones out there that just to help these.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Wall Like the VFW is free, right, You go to
the VFW and they're not there to take anything from
you as a veteran. You know, if you go to
one of these places, they're like pay us. You might
want to think about that. You should just be like, hey,
you know this, Just go to the VFW first of all,
and they'll point you into a direction in your area
of who works with probably the best resources is I
would think that's kind of a good spot to start.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
There's a lot of sorry, there's a lot of resources,
and we've spoken to many folks in the government, at
the DoD, at the VA, at VET centers, at hospitals,
and our overriding impression is that while many vets don't
have a positive sense of it, we believe these are
incredibly well intentioned people. But as Rob and you were saying,

(18:58):
the stats, the numbers are just too big. There's twenty
two million veterans alive today. That's the highest number in
our country's history. Rob and you mentioned the numbers getting
out every year. There's about fifteen million spouses. There's several
other million folks in their ecosystem that are caregivers or
larger family members. It's too big a problem an issue

(19:20):
to solve.

Speaker 5 (19:21):
It's up to us.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
It's up to podcasts like yours, and we hope our
book makes a contribution to give folks tools. But it
is it is an issue that has come to a
head in our country because of the consequences of the
result the consequences of the end of our twenty years
wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We all have to own
that and make a contribution. It's what we owe each other.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yep. They usually say these days that you could turn
to your left or right and meet somebody who's been
in the conflict of the global War on tear. You know,
a neighbor or somebody really close, really like right around you.
You know, somebody's gone off and done it right. So
I mean one of three here, there's Rob. He's already
gone to do that. You know, it's just like that.

Speaker 4 (20:02):
So Rod, you also touched on something. And if I
could just use your mom and dad as an example.
With this and a framework, we're introduced into the book.
And Alex, I heard this at twenty years twenty years
ago in the Naval Academy when I was taking a
class by a Master Chief, Will Guild, who is a
sealed master chief who was teaching ethics at the Naval Academy.
He was the first enlisted to do it. Incredible, incredible guy.

(20:25):
And it worked out well because Alex has a lot
of education in Greek mythology. But Heracles gives us the
circles a concern, and that first circle is self. You
have to fix yourself when you're coming out of this journey.
You've gone to the known universe to the unknown and
you're coming out and you're dealing with all these issues.

(20:46):
Some people may come into full circle and have some
sort of knowledge of self and be able to transition
very successfully, but a lot of people can't. They they're
clouded either through a PTSD, TBI, a physical injury, a
moral and a breathement atonement, whatever it may be. If
you don't take ownership to fix the self and take number.

(21:07):
You're in the military, so a lot of your choices
already being made for you. Now you have to take
that power of choice and give it back to yourself.
You have to go help the self to get to
the next concentric ring of family, and ultimately, as the
family unit comes together, you're a contributing minor to the
community and then we look out at society and then

(21:27):
you can go very you know, very grandiose and beyond
and you know where I fit in the universe if
you really want to go that deep. But going back
to you know, just your just your example of the family.
Before family, you have to fix the self. I just
wanted to highlight that it's one of the one of
the frameworks we talk about well.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
And you know, obviously all the flight attendants have are
well aware of hercules or heracles excuse me, because they're like,
put the oxygen mask on you first before you put
it on your kid. Okay, on you first, right, They're
like everybody oxygen on you first. And that makes total sense.
If you take care of you first, you could take
care of who you want to take care of second. Correct,

(22:06):
that's right, because nobody loves you more than you. No
one ever will, I guess say I love you, and
I can try to help you, but at the end
of the day, I have to care about me and
you have to care about you, and so you have
to be kind of selfish to yourself and love yourself.
And it's okay.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
And it's a very different way to think, alex, I'm sorry,
I think I'll cut you off. It's a very different
way to think because when we look at you know,
the adage of the seal teams and just the military large,
it's team teammate self right, we always put ourselves last.
We're never going to go in and get that self
help unless we're like, you know, I really needed to
go to the hospital.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
But it's so true.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
Yeah, Alexah, no, rad I love your sense of humor.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
I've been told I'm too serious since I was in
nursery school, so I benefit from it.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
There's a lot there in what you said. I think that.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
The subtitle of our book is the Hero's Journey, as
Rob was alluding to, and at the heart of it,
that's a way not just to look at big stories
like Homer's illi de and Odyssey, it's a way to
look at your life and if you can reframe your
sense of yourself in your own journey, where your return
from the military has you having to live in this

(23:19):
mundane world of shopping malls and things you got to
do job, but also where you've come from and the
gifts they may not seem like gifts initially, but the
tremendous powers inside of yourself that you got from those experiences,
and you can combine them, you have a way to
touch on what Rob was saying of finding some self healing,

(23:42):
and God knows, we have veterans with the wounds of war,
whether they're visible or not, and that's a fundamental first
step that everyone.

Speaker 5 (23:50):
Deserves to give themselves.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
There's a lot there, But where we go with it,
and what we try and give our readers is you
can do that, and you can lift up those around you,
your family, your community, your friends. Think about the impact
on our country by this kind of approach to life.

(24:13):
Then you bring back tremendous superpowers and gifts that can
add tremendous meaning in your life, give you an avenue
to refined purpose in your life, which is an enormous
challenge when you have a life transition of any kind,
certainly when.

Speaker 5 (24:28):
You leave the military. Those are really.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Important things and hard to write about because ultimately everyone
has to internalize it and follow their own path. But
I think Rob and I feel to some small degree,
perhaps from our own lives what we've tried to do,
but what we think is available to veterans and their
families is this kind of approach, and it gives a
tremendous sense of purpose and even redemption. I've thrown out

(24:54):
a lot of big words, but what you say, your
humor aside, is so rich that we could talk for hours.

Speaker 5 (25:02):
Rob, please adder some track to me, correct me.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
I think that was well said.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
I think I was listening. I'm like you have the floor, sir, Yes,
and eloquent as well. And boys keep saying nice things
go ahead because kindness is infectious, okay, and it's never
out of style, so it's okay. And again we should
be positive with ourselves. It's us. You know. People are like,
why do you have you on a shirt, and I'm like, well,

(25:30):
because somebody put it on there and showed me and
I loved it, and I was like, I'll take ten
thousand of them.

Speaker 4 (25:36):
Yeah, you got a movie named after you?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
I mean well, and I'm also in movies, so there's
that too, buddy. You can go watch a fire Starter
from Stephen King. I play the dad to the fire
starter Andy McGee with telekinesis, so I can I try
to tell her to stop being like blowing stuff up.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Let me return the favor.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
If I wore that shirt rad that you're wearing, you
know what, my two boys would huh Dad, you expect
too much from that shirt?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Oh the legends? Oh yeah? Oh yeah no, yeah, that's
my boxing shirt. I don't know which. I know you're
talking about my shirt with me on it, but.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
Let me, let me, let me just add Let me
just add one thing because in I'm ribbing you and yeah,
I get it, I appreciate your spirit.

Speaker 5 (26:18):
Let me add one thing.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
The things I was talking about healing, service contribution, having
a transcendent cause as a civilian, as a civilian warrior.
We have a chapter on that. Those are real, those
are life meaningful things. But I don't want to forget
about the lightness, the joy, the love, the tremendous life

(26:42):
opportunity which is just amazing. It's not all serious topics,
and we try and.

Speaker 5 (26:47):
Cover those two, but this is available.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
To everyone in their life journeys. And I think Rob
and I both feel blessed that we have found those things.
So it's it's really important stuff. It's serious stuff, but
there's also lightness and love here that's available, and I
think it's really important to remember that well.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
And you said earlier like hey, I haven't had any
military this, that or the other. And I'm gonna say
that you being a part of this and servicing the
service member is just as important as the service member
of servicing the constitution. I mean, we can only just
be the pit crew for our military personnel. So when
they come home, we could just be like, it's it,

(27:27):
are you good? Is you tire fixed? Okay? You need fuel?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, Okay, cool, you good,
you know, I mean you want me wash your windows? Bro?
You're just not seeing clear, you know what I'm saying.
I mean, we as the civilians on the outside who
say you support the military. On the inside, we're the
pit crew, right, And so when they get out and
they come home and they're your neighbor, and you didn't

(27:48):
realize that they were some former seal guy who's been
through tor Boris caves looking at cooking teapots and almost
burned out cigarette butts because they're chasing bad guys. But
here they are. They're also your your baseball coach. They're
also your high school teacher, you know, so you know,
or someone in your church you just never know. And
funny enough, my dad would go to church and sometimes

(28:11):
he would come in his uniform, his his camis, his
woodlands from work from drill, and I'd be like, how
can you get to wear your uniform? He's like, because
God knows what I do is right. It's like I
don't always have to wear my tie by suit, you know,
And he'd come in walk it in. I was like,
I got camouflage at home too, how come I can't
wear it? You know, I've got exactly, so you know,

(28:35):
as long as we can be you know, pay a
full full circle, right, you know that's it, you just but.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
I mean, but even the way you know Alex is
talking presenting this, it's also highlights another thing that we
were discussing the book is, uh, vetters need to find
a mentor. They need to find someone and if that's
to go, you know, deal with personal problems or things
within a marriage, something that's happening, or you know, a
traumatic event that happened in service, find someone to talk to,

(29:05):
but also find that mentor on the outside that's going
to help them navigate everything as they come out into
this different world to find new purpose, start a new chapter.

Speaker 5 (29:14):
I love that all of us need guidance.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
I've been extremely lucky in my life how I grew
up the resources I had. But even so, at any
you could pick ten points in my life, I could
have fallen off and gone on the wrong side in
a heartbeat, and I was blessed to have mentors. And
I hope it doesn't sound presumptuous, but we hope our book,
our mission. Also the resources on our website, which is

(29:41):
Heroes hyphen Journey dot Net has a bunch of annexes available.
We want to serve in that capacity. We think it's
one of the ways that we're paying rent to be here.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Yeah, I love that, No, I do. And I think
that you know, if my listener out there or the
viewers watching and they're getting ready to transition, go go
put yourself down for that book, you know, pre order it,
get it to you so you have something to read.
And and honestly, it seems like Rob, you know, is
a mentor, and I think that what's in that book,

(30:16):
Rob is kind of what you thought. Hey, if I
could just say this to everybody, if I can just
have everybody together and just go over these things, and
that way you can just open up that book and
kind of see what you and what Alex have compiled
together for the transition outside of the military.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
I wish I had, you know, if I could go
back and read that last chapter of life, which we
know is you know, we don't want to do right
because that takes away from some of the personal growth.
But if I could go back and read that last chapter,
there's a lot of things. Obviously I would do different.
Finding a mentor to talk about these things and navigate
these things, you know, the loss from combat, you know

(30:55):
that bereavement cycle that I just was kind of caught
that ENDOS feedback loop. I just couldn't forget past it
accepting some of those things, you know, being properly diagnosed,
going through you know, the VA system or whoever it was.
I wish I'd had that mentor to do that. But
you know, even with not having that, still took me

(31:17):
probably two years to kind of find that somewhere the
right balance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Now, now you had to have somebody that you looked
up to on the teams, even even as a as
as an ensigner, as an officer. Okay, I want to
throw that kind of a side. I know that at
the end of the day, you guys are all, you know,
bleeding the same blood together in the same box. Lis
like you you deployed, you were you were with Sealed
Team three. Correct, Yes, and so tell me take me

(31:44):
on on on an deployment like you went into where
what year and and go from there.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Okay, I was at let me think, so I was
at you just sort of headquarters in Balad, Iraq in
two thousand and six. I was in Flujjah two thousand
and eight, I was out in Al Chaim right on
the border Syria, Iraq twenty ten. That's all Iraq. Two
thousand and nine. I was an augmentee to Development Group

(32:12):
in nine that was Southern Afghanistan. And then I went
back to Southern Afghanistan my last deployment and the end
of two eleven into twenty twelve. Came back and got
out in thirteen and then so that was so five
trips over there. I rack Afghanistan. Then I did to

(32:33):
deployments on the ship.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
And yeah, over multiple years, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Like, yeah, nine years. Yeah, seven deployments, seven deployments, nine years.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
How long is the deployment.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
Anywhere from three the shortest morning and then up to
nine months is the longest.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Were you single or were you married?

Speaker 4 (32:51):
Or kids or divorced? Now with a young son who's seven,
just wants to fight and rustle every morning, it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
But when you were in, did you?

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Oh no, I was in. I was in a single
dating the whole time.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, so free spirit be able to just be deployed.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
Uh dating the same person actually hung she hung with
me through every deployment.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, oh okay, no, that's what. Yes, So someone who
was there to you know, for you to write home to.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yes, but I mean it's nothing of a normal courtship.
You come back and you deal with many funerals. So
you want to go out and focus on those people,
make that make sure they're okay. You never focus internally,
You never and then you know, before you know it,
you can like, well now I'm back in training cycle
and then I'm getting ready to go into sustainment. Then
I'm out the door again. And it's just this is

(33:37):
competed for process over and over and over.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
M So who is your mentor during those times? What
did you look up to.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
In the teams I had? I gravitated to a couple
of guys who were actually my buds, instructors who ended
up at still teem through with me. Just phenomenal guys
that you know, out of a thousand faces that come
through the door each year, they remembered me, I guess,
hopefully for the good things, not the bad. Not the
bad things I did, right, it's all good.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
It's all good though.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah, And some of them took me under my wing.
And then you know, I had this this close knit
uh coherd of friends, you know, a couple of guys
a couple of years older than the officer community, and
a couple of guys you know, a little bit younger
that I that I preciprocated and took care of them.
So in today and today my friends are my peer

(34:28):
group is commanding officer, just passed post commanding officer. Some
are pending on six right now?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Wow? Yeah, yeah, that's what What would that be in
the Navy at six?

Speaker 4 (34:39):
Oh, captain, captain's commanders.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
And that's the double railroad ties the crossbar or the
double bars right there, right total like yep, captain.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
No, but the no captain be the eagle Navy captain,
the colonel until colonel.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Oh yeah, so it would be an eagle. Huh see
that's so cool about the Navy man. No, really, it's
like infantry.

Speaker 4 (35:04):
We just like to confuse people.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, it's a little bit. It's a little bit. But
I learned that there's rates, right, and then I learned
about bosun's mate and gunner's mate and eod is a
rate you know, and seal would be a rate. Correct. Yes,
yes see, I'm learning Alex. We're learning Alex always, and
we're learning.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
There's one other if I could interject there's one other
aspect of this book, which is both our own journeys
into it. That was really interesting. Every month or so
we would send out a draft of what we were
writing to get feedback to know if we were full
of our own blowney or actually made a difference and
was practical.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
And when we thought we were done, Rob.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Got feedback from a friend and teammate and I will,
I will elaborate. Rob, you can, you can give me
a thumbs up or down. He said, you guys are crazy.
You do nothing about spouses. They are as important as
the veteran, Like, what is the matter with you two?
So in a very well meaning way, right, And so

(36:09):
we then said, wow, huge omission. We got to go
fix this. And it probably delayed us, I don't know,
nine months. And so we have a chapter about how
spouses transition. We rewrote several parts of the book to say,
when the veteran's getting out, if you have a spouse
or partner, whatever you want to call it, you got

(36:29):
to factor that in.

Speaker 5 (36:30):
You got to act like a team. This is a
transition for both of you.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
And we found very powerful stuff, very powerful moving quotes
and life stories from spouses, as well as many female
vets whose stories we can tell you. But what there's
some amazing things. Their transition is entirely parallel, no less
difficult than the veteran their experience, they're falling off a

(36:57):
cliff in their own life ecosystem. The incidents of secondary
PTSD for spouses and children has not been recognized or
easily diagnosed. Upheaval of family and location.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Where your kids go to school, where do.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
You go shopping?

Speaker 3 (37:16):
What happens when you've been waiting for your veteran spouse
to come home and you're both excited, and then that
person comes home and your marriage is at risk because
you've never you've not trained for that moment. These are amazing,
painful and also very inspiring stories, And so I didn't
want to forget a drone on sometimes.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
But the role of spouses in.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
The transition is something we felt was incredibly important and
that no other book had really accomplished.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
Rob set me right.

Speaker 4 (37:49):
No, No, just to give you due credit and justice
to who said that to? So A good friend of mine,
Dan Canausen, who is stultot one, actually came to my graduation.
I tried last time I saw him because then he
would deployed Afghanistan and his first op was a turnover
op and uh uh taking the high ground, stepped into

(38:09):
an id field, lost both legs and I mean you
talk about someone you you love the guy, but meant
everything that that guy's accomplished, he has gone and he
has redefined purpose and what it means to have a
disability now and just crush life. I mean got into Harvard,
he's uh six seven medals now from the Paralympics.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I think he got a new legs to make him
six foot seven, broken RoboCop or like, yeah, that'd be cool, though.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
I want to be a basketball player. I just want
to make himself tollerant. Yeah exactly, I'm sixty seven Harvard. Yeah. Yeah.
But Dan was the one that took a step back
and is like, guys, you have to put something in
there for spouses. So for that, thank you Dan.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
And that's the way.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
Yeah, thank you Dan.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yes, it's true. And again to touch back on my
mom and dad, that's how that's how I can relate.
It's very much a spouse. My mom when my dad
was deployed for three to six months at a time
doing whatever with the SF guys. I never realized it
was any different. But my mom took My mom was
the dad. My mom was the mom. My mom was

(39:24):
the butcher, the baker, every single thing in the house.
She was the whole Swiss army knife. And she had
the toothpick behind her ear to prove it, you know.
So it was like when dad comes home, he needs
to realize, you know, that she's been waking me up
every morning to get me to school, to get the
car started, to get me down there to come back,

(39:44):
and then dad just falls into it. I'm home. I
never saw any difficulty between my mom and dad, right,
I always saw that transition kind of like, hey, dad's home.
We're all at the armory. All of his guys are
taking off all their rucks, getting out of formation and
hugging the families. It just kind of seemed like the process.
But that's because mom my dad's you know, my the
spouse and the family, you know, took care of the

(40:07):
situation at home. And that's tough work because usually takes two,
you know, kind of to run things together in a household,
and he has to go to work. Right, It's like
me going to work and my wife watching two kids here.
Well I'm at work. Oh, I'm at work on a keyboard,
working hard for eight hours today. But she's at home
right taking care of the house. So, you know, and

(40:29):
then when I come home, I have to realize, like, hey,
she's already been going through all this all day, this
is what's been. This is where I come in at.
Let me put away the dishes, let me try to
do some things extra, you know, to offset all of
that extra workload, and then and not be so demanding.
I think that's what it is, right. We have to
be so understanding and having this compromise with each other.
So especially if you're deploying and dude, you're doing like

(40:51):
hot washmen, You're like you're doing hot missions, you know,
especially in ninety day, like some type of ranger or
navy seal coming home and you guys are spun and
you come home, it's so slow. I'd imagine it's like molasses,
you know.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
It a little bit of decompression there to get used to.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah, yeah, right, you know now.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
But you're also highlighting your mom went through probably a
loss of identity as your father did, a loss of
community and having to refine that, reestablish that I'm sure
there was some. If it wasn't voiced or seen by you,
there's probably somewhere internalized that there was coping with that.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, she got more jealous of him donating all of
his time after retirement to the church working in the warehouse,
because he would work like forty to eighty hour weeks
pulling pallet jacks for the food bank, and she's like, Jack,
you spend more time there than you do here. I
think she liked him deploying and coming home versus every
single day like going to this other job. But he

(41:46):
after he retired, he needed to do something and he
felt like his church was always there for him. So
he went and served as church as like a mission
in that church as a Mormon. And that's what he
went and did. Was the food warehouse was his church.
That's where he had his first real heart attack. I
think that's why she kind of was like, you know,
lift up that palate, Jack, just palate jacket, palajacket.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
Yeah, that was his new purpose. That was him turn
the page, finding his new journey.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yeah, exactly. And and he was that, you know, and
he was a loyal, dedicated individual. So whether he was
in the military or in his faith or in the
Boy Scouts. He just went full on, you know, so
ran every marathon and he ran, never stepped out of it,
you know, completed everything he always did and instilled in
me to be a business owner and to be the

(42:31):
best person and a voice actor without even realizing it,
because he'd always read like all of these books like.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
The best voice actor ever.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Oh yeah, the Hunt are in October. He'd read it
to me and he would try to read it in
this Russian accent. Remember how he told you morrise code.
I'd always ask him, you read He's like Russian and Russian,
and I'm like, Dad, are you do you speaking? No? No,
I don't speak Russian. I'm like, wait, so confused. You
seem like you speak Russian. But his theater of operation
was like the Philippines and the Pacific, you know that

(43:00):
whole Asia, Pacific, Thaighland, everything. So but yeah, dude, you guys,
you guys go through a lot, Okay, I call I
call Special Forces, Navy Seals, rangers, you know, just extreme athletes,
Olympic style athletes you know that put themselves through it, Alex.
You know, they're like run on this beach, carrying this
and these and those and all of your friends are dead.

(43:23):
Now you're like, okay, I did it. You know that's
there's just some type of mental wall they can break down,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
Dude, Yeah, there's there's Yeah, there's a there's a stress
inoculation piece to that as well, you know, absorbing more
and more stress and kind of you know, compartmentalizing and
oculating that.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah. I knew you were going to say compartmentalizing it.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
I felt it.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I felt it. It's like you got to put it
back here, but then it pops up right.

Speaker 4 (43:51):
I mean, every vet's got to throw that word out right.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Compart to menalize it. Yes, you know, it's it's so true.
And just because like and somebody doesn't serve the military
doesn't mean that they don't serve the military, you know,
and serve our country one way or another.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
So you know, I think that's it. No, I mean,
right spot on, And I think that's a great Another
universal thing with this book is my past and my
experience wanting to transition out and to get into some
sort of life experience that Alex had on the civilian side,
and him being able to tell that side is like okay, Rob,

(44:25):
But these universal things that you're feeling, they're not not
just confined to the military. Like I've had these hard
transitions in my life and everything. You need to be
prepared for this as well. So I think there's a great,
you know, dichotomy between the two of us and our stories.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Oh it completely like say, somebody out there just gives
themselves to the company, to the corporate corporate gods, and
they work for this is my thing. I'm going to
make this a career and then they're like, we don't
need you, goodbye. You're like, wait, whoa, but I gave
you my everything, but now you don't need me. Now
they have to transition and how do they how do
they cope with it? Going to go? It's kind of
the same thing. You give yourself to the military, you

(45:04):
go get checked out at METS. You give a healthy
body with no problems to them, and then when you
get out things start to happen. You're like, oh, that
did happen When I was in I did break my
wrist and you know, those burn pits were really warm
at night, But that was bad, right, You know?

Speaker 3 (45:21):
It can it can be like a car wash in reverse.
You know, you kind of go in ready and clean,
and sometimes you come out with some mud on you.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, you know, and then they want you just to
deal with that or cope with it, or call the
eight hundred number and wait, you know, and not to
be rooted to the VA, because I've had the former
director of the VA, who also teaches surfing okay on
here where he was like, I was in charge of
three hundred thousand people during COVID rat and I was
losing staff, you know, So I understand that it's real
to try to keep that organization going to handle all

(45:53):
of the needs of our veterans out there, all right,
especially with you like talking two hundred thousand plus veterans
getting out at different ages. You know.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
One thing Rad you've touched on that is central I
think in terms of how Rob and I have attempted
to view our lives and the contribution we're seeking to make,
is that if you look at life transitions, major life transitions,
and of course we're focused on leaving the military for
the veteran of the spouse, but there's a commonality.

Speaker 5 (46:27):
Of clues that are left for success.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
And challenge, and if you look at this as just
an enormous life challenge or obstacle.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
What are the ways, what are the.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Lessons you can draw from the stories of others, and
how we've attempted to distill it for your benefit because
people have gone through it for thousands of years. In fact,
the stories from ancient Greece are as relevant today as
any other story. But the point is there are clues,
and there's patterns of success full mastery of life transitions

(47:02):
and ways that are very helpful, ways that have.

Speaker 5 (47:05):
High impact and adaptability.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Rob has talked about in this regard the power of
choice in your devotion to the success of this transition.
So there's all kinds of ways to think about life transitions.
Our focus is leaving the military. One of the things
we try and do in our book, which we think
is a bit different, is put to use our sense
of how we've distilled those life lessons from many from

(47:31):
many quarters of life, non military and military. Why not
take the best of what's out there. And that has
been a part of what we've tried to do and
how Rob and I have spoken with each other about.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
Our own lives.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
So you're touching on like incredibly rich, interesting, valuable stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah, because maybe I've lived a little bit of it.
I don't mean to say it like that, but you know.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
Tell us Ron Bernady kind of a big deal man.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
You know, I'm like, tell me more, tell you more,
oxygen mask. Bro, I can't get over that enough. You
have to take care of yourself and then you can
take care of those next to you. Because if you're
not self helping yourself, what.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Are the odds you're going to yell for that stewardess
when you get on the plane or come help you.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, what's to say they're even gonna be
on it when it pulls apart? Okay, because like it's
just you, bro, and you're.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
It's on the news getting kicked off the airplane.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
They love me on the plane now, they love me.
I'm not on any of those lists, my friend, don't
you dare? That's not my goal. I like to fly.
I bring little gifts for the crew. I feel that.
From London with Soft Rep. We went over there to
host the SAS versus Navy Seals boxing match, okay ye,
and I was the announcer in the ring and all

(48:56):
that kind of stuff, you know, for the Facebook Live.
But anyways, I always learned that if you want to
be nice to somebody, you'd be nice. So I went
to Herod's, which I didn't realize was a fancy place
at the airport, and I just bought a thing of
chocolates okay, and it came in a little Herod's bag
that's green and it's very identifiable. So I'm going and
I'm like, I'm gonna give this to the crew. It's
a long trans atlantic flight. They'll like a couple pieces

(49:17):
of chocolate. I'm walking through the airport with this little
bag in my hand and I get on the plane
and I'm like, this is for the crew and this
is for you guys. And I gave them the bag,
the Herod's bag with the chocolate in it, and they
were like, dude, they found my seat so fast you
would have thought that I was in first class that
entire flight from London to Utah because of just like

(49:39):
this chocolate. Late were individually wrapped, okay, so they could
each have one, and I just thought, what would this do?
Maybe I can get a drink or some extra food, right,
super cool man, every single one of them. Maybe two
years later, I'm going through the airport with my wife
and I see a flight attendant walking with this little
green Herod's bag that's and stapled and he's walking with

(50:02):
it to his terminal which we're about to fly out on.
He's like, ladies and gentlemen, please start the board for
you know, everybody that's cooler than rad. And I'm like,
I gotta wait. Fine, okay. So I finally get up
to him, I'm like, hey, I remember that bag. He's like,
it's you, and I was like, it's me. Next thing
you know, we're on the plane leaving. They were super
nice the whole time. Do you need anything extra? You
gave him the Herod's bag. He still was holding onto

(50:24):
it two years later.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Just the act of kindness, right, You can never be
accused of kindness or receiving gratitude. Think of saying, think
of the impact you had on those folks lives. It's
a great story.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I mean really, I just it just came out on
this episode to tell you about it, because yes, I
was over there, soft rep. Yes there was a bunch
of Navy seals involved, but it was just how do
I get an extra drink on the plane? Maybe you
know it's a transatlantic flight, dude, I flew there. I
was like that, this is long, I'm flying back. Maybe chocolates, chocolits. Yes,
So whether they did anything or not, I just wanted

(50:57):
to let them know we appreciated them, because there's a
lot of people who are not nice on flights and
they just have expectations of like whatever. But honestly, that
flight crew person is there to like make sure that
you put your oxygen mask come first.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
I should have tried that the Naval Academy. They would
have gotten better grades. Bro, here's some chocolates that most
chocolates in my exams.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah. Oh, I'll tell you there's a story. Oh man.
I used to deliver Krispy Kreme donuts back in the day, Okay,
and I'd go through all of my route, all right,
really cool job. My wife is pregnant. I was trying
to be the dad, you know, take care of things
after the military. I was like, I'm gonna drive Krispy
Cream donuts. So I'm driving this route all through northern Utah,
up into Idaho and back down into Utah, taking donuts,

(51:39):
brand new donuts less than twenty four hours old off
the shelf, putting on new ones. And every time I
would drive by this certain police department in Soda Springs, Idaho,
and I would always pull over at three in the morning,
knock on the door and say, you guys want six
dozen donuts, and they'd come over. They'd open the door,
they say, yeah, we're just gonnaut them in water first though,
just to make sure right that they're not anything crazy,

(52:00):
just giving them the donuts. It's just so funny. It's
the small little things, dude. But yeah, that's how I
transitioned up to the Air Force. As I went to
Krispy Kreme in Idaho. No, in Utah, but I had
to drive into Idaho, which was like an hour north. Yeah,
because yeah, because I mean, like the yeah, it's it
was just a eight hour drive every day, bro blizzards

(52:21):
bringing the donuts. I know you wanted to know about this.

Speaker 5 (52:26):
Story.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I'm taking notes, dude, white outs. I'm like, why am
I driving twelve dozen donuts through two states for this Chevron?
Well that's business. Maybe that's business. Now. The business that
you're in today, which you've transitioned to, is becoming an author,
and Alex, you have also become an author. I don't
know if you guys ever grew up with a poster

(52:47):
on your wall of I'm going to be an author
one day. Maybe you did. Is that the case?

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Now? I think my parents probably put posters up my
wall like please figure it out soon, please do something
I don't.

Speaker 5 (53:03):
I think we're both surprised by the journey.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yeah, you see, and that's what I love. And the
journey is the biggest part of the adventure. And you guys,
you know bringing this book together. This Field Manual, you
know it's again it's called The Warriors to Civilian the
Field Manual. Let me just get the exact name here
so I could say it appropriately. So so when Dina listens,

(53:26):
it's like, rad it's actually a Warrior to Civilion, the
Field Manual for the Hero's Journey. Thank you, You're well,
You're welcome. Well, I've had you guys on for just
about an hour of the show. You've been a wonderful guest.
We've gone back and forth, talked about a lot of things,
and a lot of veteran transitioning and spouses, how important

(53:49):
they are on the home front, and different jobs that
we've gone into after the military, which you're going to
be out there, Okay, you'll just transition, just just roll
with it and all of a sudden you'll be an author, okay,
and then I'll be talking to you on softwap dot
com just like these two. Okay, Hey, that website was
that heroes hyphen Journey dot net? What was that website?

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yes, exactly, And by the way, yeah, yeah, sorry, By
the way, we invite anyone who's a veteran, a spouse,
a military kid to send us their story and we
would love to post it because we have dozens of
stories and we want to help people tell theirs.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
I love that. And also, if you buy the book
on some platform online, leave a review for it about
what you read on that platform. If it's at a
local Mama Pops, just buy it a local Mama Pops, okay,
because they're putting it on the books. And also I
heard a trick from some really popular authors. You guys
wanted me to tell you what that is.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
Please.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
They always pack around two to six extra books with
them when they travel, because then they wind up at
the maybe like the DC airport where there's a life
you know, the gift shop, yep, and they just kind
of put it on the shelf and then they take
it and they and they scan it and it actually
can scan and it says out of stock, and then
what it means is that somebody bought the last one

(55:15):
out of stock and they tried to resupply your book
at the airport.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
Just to let you know that.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
As long as you got a UPC on the back, yes,
well you to know hand.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Them out with oxygen mask.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I like it, Bro. If it came with one on.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
It, that's awesome marketing right there. That's right.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
So first, I mean, really glad.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
You're awesome. Thank you for giving us the time to
talk about it on.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
This Red No. You guys are awesome. Thanks for choosing
to be on our show and reaching out. And again
thanks to to Dina for having you for sending you
our way, and to Brandon Webb who sits in the
background and make sure that I'm doing what I'm supposed
to be doing. Thanks Bro, I appreciate you, Brandon. And
to Calum out of London who's my producer. Thanks so much, Calum.
I appreciate all you do and making us look good

(56:00):
on the internet. And you my listener and my viewer.
I just wouldn't be here without you. You guys, keep
listening and watching and commenting. Just keep that up. Check
out the merch store at soft reap dot com. Check
out the book club. It's book hyphen Club. That's soft
reap dot com forward slash book hyphen Club. And I'll
be half of my guest Rob Sarver and Alex gen Zier.

(56:21):
I am going to say peace.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
Thanks Rob, appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
You've been listening to surf rep Uadia