December 3, 2025 • 46 mins
Claude and Ryan Crysler dive into how better strategy and game planning can free you from obsessing over technique — and help you finally reach your target score.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the son of a butcher. Pop. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon. This week, we've got Ryan Chrysler back on
the pod and or see I want to talk about
kind of game planning and coming up with a strategy
on how to play your golf course. And I think
it's a good story. It's kind of a teachable moment.
We just went through this with Mingbo Jang. I'm probably
(00:22):
pronouncing his last name the wrong way, but I've been
working with Mingbo for about four years and he just
won the Florida State High School one A Championship two
rounds sixty eight, sixty eight. But we kind of went
through before he played. And the golf course that they
play the state championship in Orlando mission in right.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The l Campion course for the boys.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, yeah, and it's the same golf course. It's a
very very Yeah, it's a funky golf course.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Right, there's no other course in Florida like it. It's
which is very rare for Florida, super rare for Florida.
So kids too in the freak ad and hate it
because it looks so different than what they're kind of
growing up playing.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right, So one of the things that we did was
sit Mingbo down beforehand and say, listen. You know he'd
been winning some tournaments. I told him, I think you're
going to have a good chance to win this tournament,
right because of the way you've been playing, because you've
become a better player. And I said, I think we're
also at a stage in your golfing career to where
(01:26):
we can actually focus on how to play the golf
course that week for the tournament that you're playing, because
your golf swing's in a good space, the mechanics are good.
We're kind of past that. Yeah, I mean, we're always
going to be working on his golf swing, but I
think we were at a stage to where we could say, listen,
let's game plan the golf course. So the strategy that
(01:48):
we had for that was a strategy that you used.
How many years are earlier with Garrett Barber.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So Garrett Barber another player we coached for a little bit.
Twenty seventeen, I won the Stay tied on this same
course sixty nine to sixty five. This course has like
a tournament every week, so there's Q school there. The
State championship is always there for the State of Florida,
so I've got a ton of research player experience. I've
(02:15):
been at this course I don't know, five or six
times in the past ten fifteen years. We seem to
have great success there because it's not an ordinary Florida course.
It's a course that I used to kind of play
it in Texas. It's very hilly, a lot of trees,
intimidating visually intimidating for sure at eye level, but when
(02:38):
you look at it from high above GPS wise, you
can see how the architect back in the day was
trying to fool you and how open it is actually
despite shooting these t shots through these tiny corridors off
the team.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
The other thing that I think was interesting that you
did that was back when Arcos was first coming out.
You were doing a lot of work with Arcos, so
you went to the and said, listen, give me data
on what people are shooting on not only the entire round,
but on specific holes and what you were able to
come up with. And this is one of the things
we talked to Mingo. There are holes on that golf
(03:14):
course that, in tournament conditions, if you make a par
you're gaining massively against the field. But there's also holes
out there that if you can just make a bogie,
you are gaining even more strokes against the field because
of the visual nature of it, because of some of
the decision making process. So when you're looking and the
(03:37):
reason why I wanted to talk about this is a
real world experience that we just helped a player win.
He's senior, he's going to play Division one college golf
at the University of Southern California. He just basically hit
a walk off and won his state high school tournament.
Right the dream that's a big goal for a high
school golfer, right, and that's a great way to kind
(03:57):
of end your high school season. But I think there's
power in this. I've talked about this you and I've
talked about this on the pod before for the majority
of golfers listening. Every time you go play your home course,
it's the equivalent of a major championship golf course. Right.
All you need to try and do is just manage
(04:19):
your game around a golf course that is familiar to you.
So how can we gain plan at home and talk
me through what you kind of did for Garrett, Barbara.
Garrett went on, he was a high school golfer at
the Pine School. He went on to play Division one
college golf at LSU, one of the big D one
(04:39):
programs he's trying to play now. But what specifically when
you were game planning were you on Did you go
on site walk around with him? Because you were the
coach of his high school team at that time, he
was an individual, so you basically had the coach player
relationship to where you could just basically focus solely on hint.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right, that was basically as caddy for the week. From
the top, I did get the report from Arcos. You
can basically ask customer support and say, hey, can you
send me the population how they play this particular course.
So we got basically this is not like the straight
up handicap assignments for the holes. We got the actual
(05:22):
scoring averages for certain handicap groups on the entire course
before we even get the game plant. Right, So for example,
we know like number one is like the toughest part
five because it's like averaging like six handicap wise, it's
averaging number one if you look at it from the
score card perspective. But we can see how the population
(05:42):
plays the course and see where we can make some
gains and where we can save some shots, And so
we had that kind of data going into it. Which
holes are deceptively hard, which holes are deceptively easy based
on how the real golfing public plays, and that might
be available with the US. At your home course, you
can definitely track your own scoring average on your own
(06:04):
course and get each hole data.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Another good thing at your home course talk to your
head pro and say, listen, what do you see as
how our golf course gets played? Right? What do you
feel like as the head pro here when you play here?
What do you feel like or the important holes that
you have to kind of take advantage of. What are
the stretches of holes that are okay? These are kind
(06:28):
of the stretches of holes on this golf course where
you just need to kind of hang on and make
par through these stretches. Right. We talked about this recently
and it's a term that we use auto par. Right,
look at your home course and say, okay, when you're
trying to game plan, where are the auto pars that
you can make to where you say okay, these are
(06:50):
the holes that I think everybody goes out with the
plan of saying Okay, I'm going to try and birdie
every hole, or I'm going to try where are the
birdie holes? As opposed to looking at the golf course
first and foremost, look at the scorecard, look at the
front nine and the back nine, and say, okay, what
are the auto par opportunities on my home golf course
(07:12):
that I can say, Okay, I just need to make
power on these holes. Then these are the holes that
I can kind of feel like I could take advantage
of from a scoring standpoint. And then these are the
real danger holes where if I can play these holes
and maybe just bogium right, it's going to be plus plus, right,
(07:34):
you're gonna save a shot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah. So one example is like number eleven here at
the college tournament. It's typically top two or three hardest holes.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Here at the Floridiania eleventh pole, par four, water down
the left hand side, two bunkers, plenty of room off
the tee. Yep. But it's one of those holes that
I think always plays much much harder than the scorecard
says it does, the handicap says it does, because visually
off the te you know you don't want to hit
it in the water over there to the left, and then.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You know the second SHOT's really does second shot because
that's where everyone screws it up.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, forced carry because.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
The green sideways from the direction you're coming in. So
we know, like number eleven, if you can make a
bogie there, everything's okay. So that's a good example.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
It's just a hard par four to where listen, making
horror is like making birdie. But if you can get
out of there and say, okay, it's just a handicapped golfer,
whatever tea you're playing it from, you can get out
of there and just make bogie that baste off of
what everybody else is going to do on that hole.
(08:41):
I mean, that's a huge, huge game.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, So it's not the number one handicap on the scorecard,
but it's definitely one of the holes you have to
get through no matter what, and bogie even during the
college tournam where everyones shooting under party helps you, so
it's okay to make a bogie there. So that type
of mindset can apply to your course at home, where
you get the score and averages either for you or
for the membership, and to see how they match up
(09:06):
with the scorecard. Who's usually not a matchup in terms
of the handicaps for re each hole. And now we
have a game plan and it almost kind of takes
a little pressure off. And we know we have a
stretch of holes that's tough. We know we have a
stretch of holes that can be the auto part And
in terms of mindset, bogies are not going to hurt
(09:26):
you on this particular set of holes. Prs are going
to really help you on this particular set of holes.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And you know, the auto power concept. You know, I
was talking to, you know, some of our junior golfers
that we worked with, one of which was just playing
in Dubai. I was messaging, you know, he had a
chance to win a tournament. He ended up winning one
of Tommy Fleetwood's Ajaja tournaments. But I told him, listen,
take care of the par fives. Meaning I think a
really good strategy to give yourself an opportunity to make
(09:54):
more bogies or make more birdies on par fives is
to try and use the auto par strat on par fives. Listen,
at my home course, I'm just going to try and
par all the par fives today, right, So most golf
courses people are going to play, are going to have
four par fours. If you could say to yourself, Okay,
the game plan is to auto par all the par five.
(10:16):
So if my goal is just to make a par right,
anything else is a bonus if I make a birdie
or a making ego. But I'm not going into it
with the mindset that a tour player would go into.
A tour player is going to look at the par
fives and say, Okay, I'm going to try and birdie
all the par fives today. Take advantage of the par
fives because those are the legit birdy opportunities that you're
(10:39):
going to have. But I think for everyone else if
they just look start by gain planning their home course
and say, okay, the non negotiables are, I'm going to
try and auto par all the par five. The more
you're in the mindset of trying to make pars on
the par fives, I think you give yourself more chances
de facto bite being more conservative not trying to burdy them.
(11:03):
By not trying to birdy them, you give yourself more
chances to make birdies.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And a good story with mission in in the state title.
At the State Championship they have there. Number one is
like the hardest t shot, and so it's like, start
the state championship with the hardest T shot.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Now you're starting the state championship on a par five,
which you think is a scoring opportunity. It is, but
again knowing that if you can somehow get out of
there and make a par based off of what everyone
else in the field is going to be doing, you're
picking up shot.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes. So the thing with that particular hole is they
typically move the high schoolers up, so there's only a
handful that you know, hit it past three hundred. But
it's a tree lined fair away. It feels it's probably
technically twenty five yards wide, which is really narrow. It
opens up a little bit, probably about three hundred to
(11:56):
three fifteen off the tee and the on top of it,
there's two trees in the middle of the fairway and
it basically bisects the fairway. So now we got ten
yards basically a fairway.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
You've got to choose which side you're going to go on,
and invariably players don't really think about strategy. They hit
a good drive. Now they're right behind two trees in
the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So and the good example of Garrett and Mingo who
can actually hit it pretty far. The target is literally
those two trees. So they get past the trees right
and now the fairway's opened up and a typical high
schooler is going to want to try to lay back
or try to aim on one particular side of the fairway.
They don't have enough distance to pull that off. And
if they miss it, now they're in the Now they're
(12:43):
in a deep hole because now they're probably three fifty
away from the green and they're in the trees and
there's water down the right side or on the on
the approach shop. Now we have to have two layups. Basically,
now we're looking at Bogie at best huge advand from
Mingo and Forgett to basically send it right out those
(13:03):
trees and get past it.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, And I think one of the things that we
tried to do is take Mingbo through a strategy on
every single hole. And in talking to him to him
after he won, I said to him, talk to me
about the game plan, how did that go? And he
said it really helped me focus way less and not
(13:26):
really even start thinking about my golf swing because I
was so focused on the strategy. So I think the
other thing that game planning your home course for everyone
listening can do is we're always trying to go out
on the golf course and not play golf swing, not
think about our golf swing, and actually play golf. That's
(13:47):
hard for a lot of people to do. But if
you can get a really good game plan around your
home course and have a strategy every time you go out,
like almost like a kind of strict, kind of really
draconian kind of no, no, no, this is how you
play this whole. Yes, period, you're playing chess, you're playing yeah,
(14:08):
point A to point B, and if you and then
I think the other thing that having a really good
game plan strategy, and we talked to Mingbo about this
getting ready for the state championship, was it also allows
us to create a plan B too. Yes, So I
think the other thing that game planning your home course
allows you to say, Okay, this is my strategy, but
(14:32):
if I do get in trouble, this is the plan
B strategy for each hole if I'm not in position,
So then you basically are going through kind of a
checklist where okay, this hole, if I hit the fairway,
I do X if I don't hit the fairway, now
I go to why, And I think most people don't
(14:53):
even have one. They don't even have plan A strategy.
They have no strategy. So having a plan B strategy
is I mean, it's never even an option. And I
think we've talked about this on some of the pods
that we've had you on before. I think most golfers
go out with no strategy, no game plan.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And trying to play it like reactionary.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And they don't expect anything bad to happen, right, even
though they're not a tour player, even though there're so
there's no fault that they expect to play well, especially
if they've hit it good on the range. And then
when something bad happens, they don't really know what to
do because they don't have a game plan. They don't
(15:36):
know in their head where the auto par you know,
holes are. The other thing that I think game plan
in your home course is look at the short par
fours and think, okay, that's an that's that's an auto
par opportunity as well. And for you a short par
four in thinking about it into and put it into
(16:00):
kind of that auto par category would be what in distance.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Let's say it's three fifty or less.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, I was gonna say three eighty yeah, okay, or
any or Another way to think about it is if
you've got a four par four, it's your home course
that's under four hundred yards, that's a really good opportunity
for you to say, Okay, I'm going to use the
auto par strategy for the par fives, and then I'm
gonna look at the short par fours and then basically say, okay,
(16:29):
I'm gonna put those in the art. I'm just trying
to make a par here. I'm just gonna not do
anything crazy. I don't need to go for any pins.
I'm just going to try and get through this.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, because you're probably looking at four par fives, yeah,
and we're probably looking at maybe two or three shorter
par four shorter ish par fours. It's almost half the course.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
If you're thinking of if you could get to where
I think a good game plan and a good strategy
is if you could come up with almost at your
home course nine that you feel like are legit auto
par opportunity right the par fives where you don't have
to go for every one of them, and too so
(17:09):
play them as three shotters. Play all the par fives
as three shotters. Don't try and go for any of them,
even if you can from a distant standpoint. Look at
the risk versus the reward. And I thought it was
really interesting that Mingbo said that by having a really
good game plan. We printed out a game plan form.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Basically, it's printed out. It's basically shot by shot for Garrett.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, shot shot one that Garrett Barber used in seventeen
to win the state championship. We gave this to Mingbo
and said, listen, print it out, keep it in your
yardage book, yep. So that you know, on this whole
you're you're not even thinking about your technique. You're not
think because we're trying to get players into the playing
(17:55):
of the game headspace when they're playing in competitions and
when they're playing tournaments. For everyone listening a weekend round
at your home course, think of it like you're in
a competition, like you're in a tournament, and approach it
like that. Yeah, you're playing with your friends, you're not
in a tournament, But get into that tournament mindset when
(18:16):
you're on the golf course right that you're able to say, Okay,
now I'm going to the course and trying to play
the game of golf, trying to play golf and not
think about my golf swing. And I think one of
the good ways of being able to go to the
golf course, Bob Rotello wants you to go to the
golf course with no swing thoughts, right zero. He'll maybe
(18:40):
let a player work with one, but he wants you
going out there with no swing thoughts. He wants you
going out there trying to think about playing the game
strategy and stuff. So I think the easy hacks to
take your focus away from your mechanics and your technique
is to game plan and come up with a strategy. Now,
(19:02):
there's so much more tech out there available, What tech,
what apps? What do you think is an easy way
for people listening to say, listen, I'm going to game plan.
I think the easiest one is Google maps. Right, go
look at your home golf course, look at it from
above and get that kind of thirty eight thousand foot
(19:25):
view of it as opposed to the eyeline or eye
level of view that you're constantly looking at. Because I
think that looking at a GPS of a golf course
your home course that you've played so many times, you
can see things error ely, I knew I was gonna
mess that word up. But you can see things from
(19:46):
above and from the air way differently than what you
see at eyeline correct.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And that's all part of architecture, and you can basically
uncover things that you cannot see from the eye line.
From GPS. You can also see things even from the
eyeline walking back backwards from green to tea and see
how a bunker may actually not be in play, See
how a bunker may not be close to the green
(20:12):
where from the fairway it might look like it's on
top of the green.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
We talked to players about that a lot. Stand on
the green and look backwards and work backwards from Okay,
I'm on the green. Now. What everybody does is they
get on the tea box and they're thinking, Okay, how
am I going to get to the green from the
tea box. I think a really good thing and a
good habit to get into at your own home course
(20:35):
is to stand at the front of every green and
look backwards and say, okay, what am I seeing from
where I'm of where the goal is to get to
yep which is the green. Okay, what do I see
when I look back down the fairway back towards the
tea box, Because like you said, sometimes you'll say, wow,
there's so much more room over here on the right
(20:58):
or the left hand side that I didn't see. So
I think GPS, Google Maps, Google or any of that
stuff is really kind of your first point of contact.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, so just a list of apps. Shout outs to
apps today. Eighteen birdies is probably my favorite.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Why do you like that one?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So eighteen birdies is pretty much all inclusive in terms
of course preview versus also keeping your stats. So if
I kind of show you the first old El campiond
those are the trees right in the middle of the fairway,
how they bisect the fairway I get a actual yardage
of the fairway right so you can see how those
trees at three hundred off the tee. Basically it's three
(21:39):
hundred off the tee. It's probably ten yards wide right
now based on this imagery where most high school players
only hit a two sixty five and now they're stuck
because they're done.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
A wider fairway to hit. But then the shot if
they do hit that part of the fairway. So that
was I think a really interesting album.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So they see the tree and they want to lay back.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Correct And I think one of the things that you
said to Mingbo and the game plan you came up
with with Garrett, is there are certain holes where you
want to be aggressive, yes, and being aggressive you get
rewarded for being a little bit more aggressive maybe off
the tee than you would normally want to. Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And so we get to see how wide it is
past those trees, and now we're looking at forty yards
wide almost.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So if you can get it past the trees, the
fairway opens up a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And it's going to be based on where they put
the tea box for number one, it's all gonna be
based on the wind. But the other cool thing about
eighteen birdies is I can change the direction of the
wind based on the forecast, and so I can go
ahead and predict how that hole is going to play.
If it's coming out of the south Verchus now and
it's going to be a lot more difficult, and so
(22:53):
then that changes the game plan, and that's where we
come up with plan B right, win dependent, Yeah, and
so that's where you have to lay way better so
you have enough room to clear the trees on the
second shot.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
And I think everybody listening their home course will have
a couple of holes that they always tend to struggle on. Yep. Right.
Maybe you just don't like the way it looks. Maybe
it's a visual thing. Maybe it's a shape thing to
where it's a dog leg from left to right and
you like to hit draws and there's no room to
(23:25):
kind of draw it into the fairway, or you hit
fades and the fade won't really work. So I think
that's where you want to try and look at those
kind of nemesis holes that everybody has on their home course.
Like I think most people listening will say, I've got
a hole on my golf course where I say, you know,
I pick up my mail in the right rough because
(23:46):
I hit it into the right raff every single time,
or I come up short of this green every single time.
So trying to figure out why. Yeah, obviously some of
that will be technique base golf, swing based mechanics and
things like that, but I think a lot of it
is going to be strategy and game planning. Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And another thing with eighteen Birdie's is they have the
green hate maps.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yep, right on there. It kind of shows you where
kind of the slopes are. And so I think once
you start to do this visually, you're getting into the
playing of the game, yes, and you're thinking, Okay, where
do I want to hit it as opposed to where
am I trying to not hit it? And I think
(24:34):
game planning and having a strategy like this is also
a very very good way to get you in the
headspace of saying, Okay, what is it? What is my
intent on this whole? What am I trying to do?
Off t what am I trying to do? Into the
approach shot and things like that, And I think when
you get into that mindset of having a plan, having
(24:55):
a purpose, then I think intent becomes much easier to
control and to do.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And just a good example again of seeing this from
a GPS ten thousand foot view, this green complex is
really tough water both sides, and the green slopes heavily
from back to front. So if you attempt going at
this green in two, it's a really hard shot. Number
one hard shot to pull off. Number two. If you
(25:26):
happen to this either short, left, right, or long, you
are essentially screwed. So we had Garrett laid up look
at this to one hundred yards basically both days, and
this guy hits it three twenty off the tee and
he decided to lay up both days because you put
(25:47):
it to about one hundred yards out, you can hit
a wedge on the green, especially with at his skill level,
but you avoid that huge mistake of trying to be
greedy on the second shot of the day to start
your out. It's just a great classic hole of what
we're trying to get these guys to learn to listen
to the podcast is what you see from eye level,
(26:09):
what you see from the yardage you're playing at may
not match up from a population, and how they play
the hole and what it looks like from ten thousand
feet up.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, so I like that app and I like the
fact that you know, Arcos has an app to that
does the kind of the same thing. You can take
the overview of your golf course. It's going to give
you that kind of GPS view, but then you can
kind of toggle to where like, let's say, how far
do you carry your driver right? And if you let's
say you've got bunkers off the tee right, left and right. Okay,
(26:42):
you've got to look at Okay, what is the yardage
that will keep me from getting into those bunkers right right?
Because that's what we do on tour. Right, we're looking
at holes, and the caddies will have, you know, their detailed,
detailed yardage books, and the players will be saying, hey,
what's it to carry the bunkers and what's it to
lay up short? And so a lot of times kaddies
(27:04):
will say, yeah, listen, it's like two ninety five to
carry those bunkers. So downwind we can carry those all day.
But into the wind, that's a little bit of a push.
So okay, what is it to lay short of these bunkers?
So I'm trying to game plan to take trouble out
of play, meaning give myself a good idea of Okay,
(27:26):
to hit it into that water, I would have to
hit the golf ball x amount of distance. So to
not hit it in the water, one of the easiest
ways to do that is just take a club that
is going to take the water out of play. So
that was the thing that that Mingbo said was really
important for him. The game plan and the strategy that
(27:46):
we had got him staying away from the trouble because
there was a specific plan to where the plan was, Okay,
we're game planning this to try and keep you away
from the danger spot, to try and keep you away
from a bunker that you could hit it in. That's
tough to get up and down from a pin position
(28:07):
that you don't even aim at because of the way
the green works. And I just think so many people
go out and play golf or see with just not
one thought in their head about how they're actually going
to play the game that day. It's just golf. Swing
golf swing, golf swing mechanics, mechanics, mechanics, see the only
(28:30):
sport that does it. There's no sports. So like if
right now in the US we're in football season, think
about going out and having you know, a football coach
is going to stand there with a giant laminated you know,
play calls of plays that they can call, and then
he's looking at the game. He's figuring out what is
(28:50):
happening in the game. They're trying to figure out is
the run game working really well. They'll keep running run plays.
If the run plays are running well, that open up
the passing place if the quarterback gets hurt and they
have to bring in a second string quarterback that doesn't
have a great arm, that's a Plan B strategy. So
they're not going to be taking a lot of deep
(29:12):
shots downfield. They're going to be doing a lot of
dump offs, check downs to try and get some confidence
and things like that. And I think if you could
look at other sports, yes, and think, okay, all the
other sports, the team sports that everybody that's listening, if
you follow team sports, and you think about whatever sport
(29:32):
that is, American football, European football, soccer, rugby, cricket, tennis.
Your tennis players have a you know, they can talk
to their coaches. Now professional tennis players, the coaches can
talk to them, so they're shouting out strategy. They're telling
them what to do. They're saying, go to the foehand, more,
go to the forehand, more set up more opportunities here
(29:53):
and there. So all of the sports that everyone listening watches,
think about everything. As a fan, you expect from your team.
You expect them to have a really good strategy. You
expect them to know what the opponent's strengths and weaknesses
are and stuff like that. If you follow, you know,
(30:13):
Real Madrid, Man United, the Dallas Cowboys, the Los Angeles Lakers.
You expect those teams and those coaches of those teams
every time they play. You expect them as a fan
to have a good game plan. And how many times
are seed you You know, when we listen to other
sports at the end of the game, when they interview
(30:34):
the coaches or at halftime, what do they say. If
they're going in at halftime, they'll be saying, listen, we've
got to make some adjustments. This is what's working. But
we can't keep leaving ourselves. We can't keep making these mistakes.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Got to execute better execute.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So then at the end of the game, you'll have
coaches when they win or when they get beat, they'll say, listen,
I thought we had a really good game plan today.
We stuck to the game plan, and you know that's
one of the reasons why we won. Or sometimes you
hear coaches that are on the losing side and say, listen,
we had a really good game plan today. We stuck
to the plan. I think our guys really played well.
(31:08):
We just got beat today, ye right, I think you
want to get in from a golf standpoint, you want
to be in that headspace when you go into playing
golf at your home course, that you've got a really
good strategy, that you have a plan B strategy, you
have a checkdown that you know, Okay, these are the
(31:29):
holes today that I'm really going to focus on and
just try and make nine pars. Right. If I could
find half the golf course where I focus solely on
nine pars, that's it, and then the other nine holes go, Okay,
these are the difficult holes. So maybe these are the
holes where my strategy is I'm just going to try
(31:51):
and bogie these four or five holes.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
If I can get out of these four or five
holes with bogies and have a really good strategy no
where I want to hit it. You know, again, the
game plan blueprint that we gave Mingbo based off of
a successful game plan that you came up with for
Garrett Barber. Have two kids win the state championship, you
know in under ten years, that's a pretty good I
(32:17):
think we've kind of used this as Okay, if we
can do this on a very very specific golf course, right,
and I try and we try and talk to the
players you know that we work with give them the
tour stuff that you know, I'm lucky enough to be
around majors to where we're trying to spend a ton
(32:37):
of time around the green complexes. We're trying to figure
out where's the best place to miss it. We're trying
to figure out where's the best strategy off the tee
that can get us from point A to point B.
We're always saying, Arcie, from a mental standpoint, the only
thing you can control on a golf course is, first
(33:00):
of all, the only hole you can control is the
one you're playing, yep. And the only shot you can
control is the one you're playing right now. Right You
can't control what just happened on the last hole or
some of the shots that have happened early in the round.
You can't control what's going to happen in the future
on the holes you've got to play because you haven't
(33:21):
played them. So I think if you have a really
good game plan for every hole on your golf course,
keep it in your yardage book and say, yeah, I'm
just going to try and have a strategy that I
stick to. And then if you say, okay, I'm playing
really really good right now, regardless of my handicap. Okay,
(33:43):
maybe my strategy can change a little bit, maybe I
can be a little bit more go on offense and stuff.
But I think most players when they play golfer, they
never think of where do I need to play defense
and where do I need to play offense? Right to me,
that's one the things that separates competitive golfers at all levels.
(34:04):
The best competitive golfers in the world play offense when
they're supposed to play offense. They play defense when they're
supposed to play defense, and they know the difference. Yes,
the average golfer, and I think most golfers are just
everything is straight offense. They never think about playing defense.
Playing defense around your home course and knowing which holes
(34:25):
to play defense on is a massive way to break
the score barriers of one hundred, ninety eighty and par for.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
The first time, where defensive maybe three would instead of
driver lay up further back than where you would want
to typically and then hitting it to the correct side
of the green no matter where the pennants. That's playing
basically defensive golf, which what pro would do after annex
the triple where the junior turns it, turns it around
(34:54):
unless hit the next green in two and try to
make eagle.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, I think what happens to most golfers, and and
I've talked about this more times than I wish I
had to. Whenever something bad happens on the golf course,
because you don't have a strategy, because you don't have
a game plan or a plan B or this idea
of Okay, whatever just happened on this hole, I can't
(35:19):
fix it. As soon as that happens, I think to
most golfers is now the strategy just goes straight offense.
Now I'm just going to try and birdie every hole.
I'm gonna take as many chances as I can possibly take.
I'm going to be as reckless as I can possibly be.
I'm going to try and be as aggressive I possibly be.
(35:39):
So you don't even have a strategy. But as soon
as something bad happens, the strategy just goes. I push
all in on every single shot, on every single hole,
I just push all my chips in. And we say
this all the time. You're hoping that works. Hope isn't
a strategy, correct, You can't think that hope is a strategy.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Hall memory's in a row is not going to work.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So you like eighteen birdies using GPS? What else do
you think people can use at their home course? What
are some things that they could be asking their head
pro or the assistant pros from an information standpoint? Hey,
what would be something you would want to ask?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, so in terms of the course previous stuff, the
eighteen birdies and arcos were great. What I would have
asked my head pro is, can you give me scoring averages?
Maybe from maybe the number guest tournaments? I can get
it from the college tournament here, the Vallas Park Collegiate.
I believe you should.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
You just want to try and get as much data
that you can get about the home course that you're playing.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
What is my handicap doing, my handicapp group doing. Let's
say if I'm a five to ten handicap, what is
the handicap group doing on the course. Where are they
losing their shots? How can I change my strategy to
save shots on those particular holes? First, and it doesn't
usually match the scorecard handicap So I mean, here a
(37:04):
good example. Number one is a really tough hole. At
fluidian number nine is a really tough hole. At fluidian
number eleven is a really tough hole at Floridian, Number
eighteen is a really tough hole, and those are identified
on the score card, like we know it's going to
be tough. So where are the sneaky heardholes? Number three
is a sneaky heardhole here. Number four par three really
(37:26):
difficult green to hit. Number five par five really difficult
green to hit. It's a really complex green complex that typically,
if I'm not mistaken, is the hardest of the par
fives for our college tournament. So what are these sneaky
little holes that kind of show up where the scoring
(37:47):
average is much higher than you would expect. That's where
you come in and say, why do I need to
change on my game plan that I can beat these
players in that group? And it's typically going to be
playing more of a defensive style. Skid a bogey and
get out of there.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And the other thing I think is important is you know,
at your home course, talk to the people that are
in your handicap bracket, right, but then talk to people
that are where you want to go from a handicap standpoint.
Talk to your club champion and say, hey, could I
pick your brain for five minutes? How do you play
(38:22):
this golf course? Right? Or you're in that kind of
higher handicap range to where you're you know, you're in
that kind of eighties shooter, like you're shoot in the
eighties and the low nineties. Talk to the guys that
are shooting in the seventies or talk to the players
and say, listen, how do you play this hole? What
do you do on this From a strategy standpoint, I
(38:44):
think the more information you can get it helps you
then come up with a game plan where you're like, Okay,
I didn't think this golf hole was hard. I never
really play it.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Now I get why it's hard, and now maybe I
change my strategy to play it correct. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Very simple data, right, very simple. Get it from your head,
pro get it from the USGA. It's all there in
front of it. And just to change your mindset on
those holes, whether it's a expectation that boge is okay here,
can help you play a better golf.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, and then have a game plan for every hole
on your home course. Eighteen plans and you know you
could print that out and keep it and just so
then it's almost like having your own caddy. The caddy's
just going no, no, you don't hit driver here, we
know you hit three wood here yep. Right, So then
you're not getting ahead of yourself doing things that are
(39:40):
going to cause some issues, cause some problems, right.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
And one of the strands of Arcos and other Apple
lag is that the Arcos caddy does that for you.
So after you get several rounds of data, it has
an idea of how you should play each hole.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
How important do you feel breaking these score barriers, breaking
one hundred ninety eighty, breaking part for the first time.
How important do you feel data can play to help you.
It's like it's a cheat code almost.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
It's a cheat code. You have to have some sort
of background going into your course, and we call it data,
but it's basically information on how to play the course. Right,
He's got to have some level of knowledge, and the
more you dive in that gives you a strategical advantage
over the players you're playing with.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
And it also gives you a strategic if you think
about it, not from a tournament standpoint, but if you
can gain plan religiously and have a really good strategy
for your home course, it can help you kind of
think about, Okay, I want to break a hundred for
the first time. Yep, right, Okay, I've got to beat
(40:55):
one hundred. Okay, so what do I need to do
from a strategy standpoint. The opponent now is one hundred.
You know it's the arbitrary score and say, okay to
beat these arbitrary handicap defining. Hey, I want to get
down to a single digit. I want to break eighty
(41:16):
for the first time. I want to break ninety. But
a lot of players are just listen, man, if I
could shoot in the nineties all the time, then I
can start getting these other scorecard barriers. They become more
manageable and more realistic to break yep.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
By having a strategy, Yeah, create your own Bogie blueprint
at the game. You did a couple of podcasts ago,
get some ws, build some momentum and not even thinking
about trying to break those barriers instead of trying to
just win the hole with the correct game plan is
going to help you lower those scores.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
And listen, it's hard to do this, right. First of all,
it's never been easier, I think, to come up with
the game plan. It's never It's never been easier with
all of the technology available, right, But sticking to that
game plan.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
That's the hard part.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
It's hard, but if you don't ever think about it
like that. Now, I think, you know, in terms of
you know, mingbo one of the things that I think
this strategy that we helped him with it's going to
help him as he now transitions from a high school
junior golfer and next fall transitions into a Division I
(42:31):
college golfer. I think it's going to make that transition
easier because he's going to be thinking better and he's
going to be thinking more like the players that he's
competing against, and the college coaches. Everybody at the college
level is doing this correct. So I'm always trying to,
(42:53):
you know, on the podcast, focus on things that we
see in the real competitive world, the PGA Tour Live
DP Asia, wherever guys are LPG wherever people trying to play.
What we see at the Division I college level, from
the coaches and the players and the programs that we're lucky,
(43:13):
what we know that players are using to Monday qualify
and stuff like that. But having a game plan, having
a strategy, I think it's the easiest way to get
you out there playing golf, and get you out there
not playing golf.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Swing you can basically make it an intangible skill just
to be able to outgame plan your competitors.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Or to outgain plan one hundred. Yes, there's a cheat
code to break a one hundred. Right, there's a cheat
code to breaking ninety. Yes, your golf swing is a
big part of that. But your golf swing can't exist
in a vacuum. If you're never going to play golf
until your golf swing is good, then you're going to
(43:59):
probably not be playing a lot of golf, and you're
going to be spending a lot of time on the range.
And if you are really hyper focused on breaking these
score barriers one hundred, ninety eighty, breaking power for the
first time, I think game planning is a vital part
of that and some of the easiest low hanging fruit
(44:22):
wins you can get because you then basically say, Okay,
for the next four to five hours, I'm not going
to think about my golf swing. I'm just going to
think about what my game plan is. What plays am
I going to run as a head coach today? What
am I going to do from an offensive standpoint? What
am I going to do from a defensive standpoint? And
(44:43):
I'm just going to see for eighteen holes at my
home course. Maybe just try it for nine and say,
you know what, I'm just going to go out trying
nine hole game plan and see what that does. Wow,
that really did have an effect on my score. Okay,
I'm going to try and do it now for eighteen holes,
and then I'm going to try and do it every
(45:04):
time I play perfect.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think would be a great way to play golf
where you take the arbitrary score out of it and
just trying to execute game plans, trying to execute a
bogie proof blueprint. That's type of style of golf where
it's just kind of the culture to be putting the
numbers down on the scorecard, but let's put something else
down on the score card. Yeah, and let's think notes
down on the course.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah. And then I think that's the other thing on
the golf course. Take notes, take notes, and see what
worked what didn't work. I think then you have a
better opportunity to go into your blueprint, your game plan
and your strategy and say, listen, this really works for
me when I do this on this hole, and this
(45:46):
doesn't work for me when I do this. You'll figure
out quite quickly which strategy works and which strategy doesn't correct.
And that's what the best players in the world are doing.
So we got another We helped another player solve the
puzzle of playing competitive golf. I think that's a big
(46:08):
part of what our jobs are as golf coaches and instructors. Yes,
we're trying to make their golf swings better, but we're
also trying to help them play the game better. Good
stuff are see always really really good. Your instagram golf
Chaos Managed, you talk about a lot of this stuff.
Go check it out. It's The Son of Aitch podcast.
We will see you next week.
It's the son of a butcher. Pop. I'm your host,
Claude Harmon. This week, we've got Ryan Chrysler back on
the pod and or see I want to talk about
kind of game planning and coming up with a strategy
on how to play your golf course. And I think
it's a good story. It's kind of a teachable moment.
We just went through this with Mingbo Jang. I'm probably
(00:22):
pronouncing his last name the wrong way, but I've been
working with Mingbo for about four years and he just
won the Florida State High School one A Championship two
rounds sixty eight, sixty eight. But we kind of went
through before he played. And the golf course that they
play the state championship in Orlando mission in right.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
The l Campion course for the boys.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, yeah, and it's the same golf course. It's a
very very Yeah, it's a funky golf course.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Right, there's no other course in Florida like it. It's
which is very rare for Florida, super rare for Florida.
So kids too in the freak ad and hate it
because it looks so different than what they're kind of
growing up playing.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right, So one of the things that we did was
sit Mingbo down beforehand and say, listen. You know he'd
been winning some tournaments. I told him, I think you're
going to have a good chance to win this tournament,
right because of the way you've been playing, because you've
become a better player. And I said, I think we're
also at a stage in your golfing career to where
(01:26):
we can actually focus on how to play the golf
course that week for the tournament that you're playing, because
your golf swing's in a good space, the mechanics are good.
We're kind of past that. Yeah, I mean, we're always
going to be working on his golf swing, but I
think we were at a stage to where we could say, listen,
let's game plan the golf course. So the strategy that
(01:48):
we had for that was a strategy that you used.
How many years are earlier with Garrett Barber.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So Garrett Barber another player we coached for a little bit.
Twenty seventeen, I won the Stay tied on this same
course sixty nine to sixty five. This course has like
a tournament every week, so there's Q school there. The
State championship is always there for the State of Florida,
so I've got a ton of research player experience. I've
(02:15):
been at this course I don't know, five or six
times in the past ten fifteen years. We seem to
have great success there because it's not an ordinary Florida course.
It's a course that I used to kind of play
it in Texas. It's very hilly, a lot of trees,
intimidating visually intimidating for sure at eye level, but when
(02:38):
you look at it from high above GPS wise, you
can see how the architect back in the day was
trying to fool you and how open it is actually
despite shooting these t shots through these tiny corridors off
the team.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
The other thing that I think was interesting that you
did that was back when Arcos was first coming out.
You were doing a lot of work with Arcos, so
you went to the and said, listen, give me data
on what people are shooting on not only the entire round,
but on specific holes and what you were able to
come up with. And this is one of the things
we talked to Mingo. There are holes on that golf
(03:14):
course that, in tournament conditions, if you make a par
you're gaining massively against the field. But there's also holes
out there that if you can just make a bogie,
you are gaining even more strokes against the field because
of the visual nature of it, because of some of
the decision making process. So when you're looking and the
(03:37):
reason why I wanted to talk about this is a
real world experience that we just helped a player win.
He's senior, he's going to play Division one college golf
at the University of Southern California. He just basically hit
a walk off and won his state high school tournament.
Right the dream that's a big goal for a high
school golfer, right, and that's a great way to kind
(03:57):
of end your high school season. But I think there's
power in this. I've talked about this you and I've
talked about this on the pod before for the majority
of golfers listening. Every time you go play your home course,
it's the equivalent of a major championship golf course. Right.
All you need to try and do is just manage
(04:19):
your game around a golf course that is familiar to you.
So how can we gain plan at home and talk
me through what you kind of did for Garrett, Barbara.
Garrett went on, he was a high school golfer at
the Pine School. He went on to play Division one
college golf at LSU, one of the big D one
(04:39):
programs he's trying to play now. But what specifically when
you were game planning were you on Did you go
on site walk around with him? Because you were the
coach of his high school team at that time, he
was an individual, so you basically had the coach player
relationship to where you could just basically focus solely on hint.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right, that was basically as caddy for the week. From
the top, I did get the report from Arcos. You
can basically ask customer support and say, hey, can you
send me the population how they play this particular course.
So we got basically this is not like the straight
up handicap assignments for the holes. We got the actual
(05:22):
scoring averages for certain handicap groups on the entire course
before we even get the game plant. Right, So for example,
we know like number one is like the toughest part
five because it's like averaging like six handicap wise, it's
averaging number one if you look at it from the
score card perspective. But we can see how the population
(05:42):
plays the course and see where we can make some
gains and where we can save some shots, And so
we had that kind of data going into it. Which
holes are deceptively hard, which holes are deceptively easy based
on how the real golfing public plays, and that might
be available with the US. At your home course, you
can definitely track your own scoring average on your own
(06:04):
course and get each hole data.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Another good thing at your home course talk to your
head pro and say, listen, what do you see as
how our golf course gets played? Right? What do you
feel like as the head pro here when you play here?
What do you feel like or the important holes that
you have to kind of take advantage of. What are
the stretches of holes that are okay? These are kind
(06:28):
of the stretches of holes on this golf course where
you just need to kind of hang on and make
par through these stretches. Right. We talked about this recently
and it's a term that we use auto par. Right,
look at your home course and say, okay, when you're
trying to game plan, where are the auto pars that
you can make to where you say okay, these are
(06:50):
the holes that I think everybody goes out with the
plan of saying Okay, I'm going to try and birdie
every hole, or I'm going to try where are the
birdie holes? As opposed to looking at the golf course
first and foremost, look at the scorecard, look at the
front nine and the back nine, and say, okay, what
are the auto par opportunities on my home golf course
(07:12):
that I can say, Okay, I just need to make
power on these holes. Then these are the holes that
I can kind of feel like I could take advantage
of from a scoring standpoint. And then these are the
real danger holes where if I can play these holes
and maybe just bogium right, it's going to be plus plus, right,
(07:34):
you're gonna save a shot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah. So one example is like number eleven here at
the college tournament. It's typically top two or three hardest holes.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Here at the Floridiania eleventh pole, par four, water down
the left hand side, two bunkers, plenty of room off
the tee. Yep. But it's one of those holes that
I think always plays much much harder than the scorecard
says it does, the handicap says it does, because visually
off the te you know you don't want to hit
it in the water over there to the left, and then.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You know the second SHOT's really does second shot because
that's where everyone screws it up.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, forced carry because.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
The green sideways from the direction you're coming in. So
we know, like number eleven, if you can make a
bogie there, everything's okay. So that's a good example.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
It's just a hard par four to where listen, making
horror is like making birdie. But if you can get
out of there and say, okay, it's just a handicapped golfer,
whatever tea you're playing it from, you can get out
of there and just make bogie that baste off of
what everybody else is going to do on that hole.
(08:41):
I mean, that's a huge, huge game.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Yeah, So it's not the number one handicap on the scorecard,
but it's definitely one of the holes you have to
get through no matter what, and bogie even during the
college tournam where everyones shooting under party helps you, so
it's okay to make a bogie there. So that type
of mindset can apply to your course at home, where
you get the score and averages either for you or
for the membership, and to see how they match up
(09:06):
with the scorecard. Who's usually not a matchup in terms
of the handicaps for re each hole. And now we
have a game plan and it almost kind of takes
a little pressure off. And we know we have a
stretch of holes that's tough. We know we have a
stretch of holes that can be the auto part And
in terms of mindset, bogies are not going to hurt
(09:26):
you on this particular set of holes. Prs are going
to really help you on this particular set of holes.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And you know, the auto power concept. You know, I
was talking to, you know, some of our junior golfers
that we worked with, one of which was just playing
in Dubai. I was messaging, you know, he had a
chance to win a tournament. He ended up winning one
of Tommy Fleetwood's Ajaja tournaments. But I told him, listen,
take care of the par fives. Meaning I think a
really good strategy to give yourself an opportunity to make
(09:54):
more bogies or make more birdies on par fives is
to try and use the auto par strat on par fives. Listen,
at my home course, I'm just going to try and
par all the par fives today, right, So most golf
courses people are going to play, are going to have
four par fours. If you could say to yourself, Okay,
the game plan is to auto par all the par five.
(10:16):
So if my goal is just to make a par right,
anything else is a bonus if I make a birdie
or a making ego. But I'm not going into it
with the mindset that a tour player would go into.
A tour player is going to look at the par
fives and say, Okay, I'm going to try and birdie
all the par fives today. Take advantage of the par
fives because those are the legit birdy opportunities that you're
(10:39):
going to have. But I think for everyone else if
they just look start by gain planning their home course
and say, okay, the non negotiables are, I'm going to
try and auto par all the par five. The more
you're in the mindset of trying to make pars on
the par fives, I think you give yourself more chances
de facto bite being more conservative not trying to burdy them.
(11:03):
By not trying to birdy them, you give yourself more
chances to make birdies.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And a good story with mission in in the state title.
At the State Championship they have there. Number one is
like the hardest t shot, and so it's like, start
the state championship with the hardest T shot.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Now you're starting the state championship on a par five,
which you think is a scoring opportunity. It is, but
again knowing that if you can somehow get out of
there and make a par based off of what everyone
else in the field is going to be doing, you're
picking up shot.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yes. So the thing with that particular hole is they
typically move the high schoolers up, so there's only a
handful that you know, hit it past three hundred. But
it's a tree lined fair away. It feels it's probably
technically twenty five yards wide, which is really narrow. It
opens up a little bit, probably about three hundred to
(11:56):
three fifteen off the tee and the on top of it,
there's two trees in the middle of the fairway and
it basically bisects the fairway. So now we got ten
yards basically a fairway.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
You've got to choose which side you're going to go on,
and invariably players don't really think about strategy. They hit
a good drive. Now they're right behind two trees in
the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So and the good example of Garrett and Mingo who
can actually hit it pretty far. The target is literally
those two trees. So they get past the trees right
and now the fairway's opened up and a typical high
schooler is going to want to try to lay back
or try to aim on one particular side of the fairway.
They don't have enough distance to pull that off. And
if they miss it, now they're in the Now they're
(12:43):
in a deep hole because now they're probably three fifty
away from the green and they're in the trees and
there's water down the right side or on the on
the approach shop. Now we have to have two layups. Basically,
now we're looking at Bogie at best huge advand from
Mingo and Forgett to basically send it right out those
(13:03):
trees and get past it.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, And I think one of the things that we
tried to do is take Mingbo through a strategy on
every single hole. And in talking to him to him
after he won, I said to him, talk to me
about the game plan, how did that go? And he
said it really helped me focus way less and not
(13:26):
really even start thinking about my golf swing because I
was so focused on the strategy. So I think the
other thing that game planning your home course for everyone
listening can do is we're always trying to go out
on the golf course and not play golf swing, not
think about our golf swing, and actually play golf. That's
(13:47):
hard for a lot of people to do. But if
you can get a really good game plan around your
home course and have a strategy every time you go out,
like almost like a kind of strict, kind of really
draconian kind of no, no, no, this is how you
play this whole. Yes, period, you're playing chess, you're playing yeah,
(14:08):
point A to point B, and if you and then
I think the other thing that having a really good
game plan strategy, and we talked to Mingbo about this
getting ready for the state championship, was it also allows
us to create a plan B too. Yes, So I
think the other thing that game planning your home course
allows you to say, Okay, this is my strategy, but
(14:32):
if I do get in trouble, this is the plan
B strategy for each hole if I'm not in position,
So then you basically are going through kind of a
checklist where okay, this hole, if I hit the fairway,
I do X if I don't hit the fairway, now
I go to why, And I think most people don't
(14:53):
even have one. They don't even have plan A strategy.
They have no strategy. So having a plan B strategy
is I mean, it's never even an option. And I
think we've talked about this on some of the pods
that we've had you on before. I think most golfers
go out with no strategy, no game plan.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
And trying to play it like reactionary.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And they don't expect anything bad to happen, right, even
though they're not a tour player, even though there're so
there's no fault that they expect to play well, especially
if they've hit it good on the range. And then
when something bad happens, they don't really know what to
do because they don't have a game plan. They don't
(15:36):
know in their head where the auto par you know,
holes are. The other thing that I think game plan
in your home course is look at the short par
fours and think, okay, that's an that's that's an auto
par opportunity as well. And for you a short par
four in thinking about it into and put it into
(16:00):
kind of that auto par category would be what in distance.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Let's say it's three fifty or less.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, I was gonna say three eighty yeah, okay, or
any or Another way to think about it is if
you've got a four par four, it's your home course
that's under four hundred yards, that's a really good opportunity
for you to say, Okay, I'm going to use the
auto par strategy for the par fives, and then I'm
gonna look at the short par fours and then basically say, okay,
(16:29):
I'm gonna put those in the art. I'm just trying
to make a par here. I'm just gonna not do
anything crazy. I don't need to go for any pins.
I'm just going to try and get through this.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, because you're probably looking at four par fives, yeah,
and we're probably looking at maybe two or three shorter
par four shorter ish par fours. It's almost half the course.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
If you're thinking of if you could get to where
I think a good game plan and a good strategy
is if you could come up with almost at your
home course nine that you feel like are legit auto
par opportunity right the par fives where you don't have
to go for every one of them, and too so
(17:09):
play them as three shotters. Play all the par fives
as three shotters. Don't try and go for any of them,
even if you can from a distant standpoint. Look at
the risk versus the reward. And I thought it was
really interesting that Mingbo said that by having a really
good game plan. We printed out a game plan form.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Basically, it's printed out. It's basically shot by shot for Garrett.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, shot shot one that Garrett Barber used in seventeen
to win the state championship. We gave this to Mingbo
and said, listen, print it out, keep it in your
yardage book, yep. So that you know, on this whole
you're you're not even thinking about your technique. You're not
think because we're trying to get players into the playing
(17:55):
of the game headspace when they're playing in competitions and
when they're playing tournaments. For everyone listening a weekend round
at your home course, think of it like you're in
a competition, like you're in a tournament, and approach it
like that. Yeah, you're playing with your friends, you're not
in a tournament, But get into that tournament mindset when
(18:16):
you're on the golf course right that you're able to say, Okay,
now I'm going to the course and trying to play
the game of golf, trying to play golf and not
think about my golf swing. And I think one of
the good ways of being able to go to the
golf course, Bob Rotello wants you to go to the
golf course with no swing thoughts, right zero. He'll maybe
(18:40):
let a player work with one, but he wants you
going out there with no swing thoughts. He wants you
going out there trying to think about playing the game
strategy and stuff. So I think the easy hacks to
take your focus away from your mechanics and your technique
is to game plan and come up with a strategy. Now,
(19:02):
there's so much more tech out there available, What tech,
what apps? What do you think is an easy way
for people listening to say, listen, I'm going to game plan.
I think the easiest one is Google maps. Right, go
look at your home golf course, look at it from
above and get that kind of thirty eight thousand foot
(19:25):
view of it as opposed to the eyeline or eye
level of view that you're constantly looking at. Because I
think that looking at a GPS of a golf course
your home course that you've played so many times, you
can see things error ely, I knew I was gonna
mess that word up. But you can see things from
(19:46):
above and from the air way differently than what you
see at eyeline correct.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And that's all part of architecture, and you can basically
uncover things that you cannot see from the eye line.
From GPS. You can also see things even from the
eyeline walking back backwards from green to tea and see
how a bunker may actually not be in play, See
how a bunker may not be close to the green
(20:12):
where from the fairway it might look like it's on
top of the green.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
We talked to players about that a lot. Stand on
the green and look backwards and work backwards from Okay,
I'm on the green. Now. What everybody does is they
get on the tea box and they're thinking, Okay, how
am I going to get to the green from the
tea box. I think a really good thing and a
good habit to get into at your own home course
(20:35):
is to stand at the front of every green and
look backwards and say, okay, what am I seeing from
where I'm of where the goal is to get to
yep which is the green. Okay, what do I see
when I look back down the fairway back towards the
tea box, Because like you said, sometimes you'll say, wow,
there's so much more room over here on the right
(20:58):
or the left hand side that I didn't see. So
I think GPS, Google Maps, Google or any of that
stuff is really kind of your first point of contact.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, so just a list of apps. Shout outs to
apps today. Eighteen birdies is probably my favorite.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Why do you like that one?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
So eighteen birdies is pretty much all inclusive in terms
of course preview versus also keeping your stats. So if
I kind of show you the first old El campiond
those are the trees right in the middle of the fairway,
how they bisect the fairway I get a actual yardage
of the fairway right so you can see how those
trees at three hundred off the tee. Basically it's three
(21:39):
hundred off the tee. It's probably ten yards wide right
now based on this imagery where most high school players
only hit a two sixty five and now they're stuck
because they're done.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
A wider fairway to hit. But then the shot if
they do hit that part of the fairway. So that
was I think a really interesting album.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So they see the tree and they want to lay back.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Correct And I think one of the things that you
said to Mingbo and the game plan you came up
with with Garrett, is there are certain holes where you
want to be aggressive, yes, and being aggressive you get
rewarded for being a little bit more aggressive maybe off
the tee than you would normally want to. Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And so we get to see how wide it is
past those trees, and now we're looking at forty yards
wide almost.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So if you can get it past the trees, the
fairway opens up a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And it's going to be based on where they put
the tea box for number one, it's all gonna be
based on the wind. But the other cool thing about
eighteen birdies is I can change the direction of the
wind based on the forecast, and so I can go
ahead and predict how that hole is going to play.
If it's coming out of the south Verchus now and
it's going to be a lot more difficult, and so
(22:53):
then that changes the game plan, and that's where we
come up with plan B right, win dependent, Yeah, and
so that's where you have to lay way better so
you have enough room to clear the trees on the
second shot.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
And I think everybody listening their home course will have
a couple of holes that they always tend to struggle on. Yep. Right.
Maybe you just don't like the way it looks. Maybe
it's a visual thing. Maybe it's a shape thing to
where it's a dog leg from left to right and
you like to hit draws and there's no room to
(23:25):
kind of draw it into the fairway, or you hit
fades and the fade won't really work. So I think
that's where you want to try and look at those
kind of nemesis holes that everybody has on their home course.
Like I think most people listening will say, I've got
a hole on my golf course where I say, you know,
I pick up my mail in the right rough because
(23:46):
I hit it into the right raff every single time,
or I come up short of this green every single time.
So trying to figure out why. Yeah, obviously some of
that will be technique base golf, swing based mechanics and
things like that, but I think a lot of it
is going to be strategy and game planning. Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And another thing with eighteen Birdie's is they have the
green hate maps.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yep, right on there. It kind of shows you where
kind of the slopes are. And so I think once
you start to do this visually, you're getting into the
playing of the game, yes, and you're thinking, Okay, where
do I want to hit it as opposed to where
am I trying to not hit it? And I think
(24:34):
game planning and having a strategy like this is also
a very very good way to get you in the
headspace of saying, Okay, what is it? What is my
intent on this whole? What am I trying to do?
Off t what am I trying to do? Into the
approach shot and things like that, And I think when
you get into that mindset of having a plan, having
(24:55):
a purpose, then I think intent becomes much easier to
control and to do.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And just a good example again of seeing this from
a GPS ten thousand foot view, this green complex is
really tough water both sides, and the green slopes heavily
from back to front. So if you attempt going at
this green in two, it's a really hard shot. Number
one hard shot to pull off. Number two. If you
(25:26):
happen to this either short, left, right, or long, you
are essentially screwed. So we had Garrett laid up look
at this to one hundred yards basically both days, and
this guy hits it three twenty off the tee and
he decided to lay up both days because you put
(25:47):
it to about one hundred yards out, you can hit
a wedge on the green, especially with at his skill level,
but you avoid that huge mistake of trying to be
greedy on the second shot of the day to start
your out. It's just a great classic hole of what
we're trying to get these guys to learn to listen
to the podcast is what you see from eye level,
(26:09):
what you see from the yardage you're playing at may
not match up from a population, and how they play
the hole and what it looks like from ten thousand
feet up.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, so I like that app and I like the
fact that you know, Arcos has an app to that
does the kind of the same thing. You can take
the overview of your golf course. It's going to give
you that kind of GPS view, but then you can
kind of toggle to where like, let's say, how far
do you carry your driver right? And if you let's
say you've got bunkers off the tee right, left and right. Okay,
(26:42):
you've got to look at Okay, what is the yardage
that will keep me from getting into those bunkers right right?
Because that's what we do on tour. Right, we're looking
at holes, and the caddies will have, you know, their detailed,
detailed yardage books, and the players will be saying, hey,
what's it to carry the bunkers and what's it to
lay up short? And so a lot of times kaddies
(27:04):
will say, yeah, listen, it's like two ninety five to
carry those bunkers. So downwind we can carry those all day.
But into the wind, that's a little bit of a push.
So okay, what is it to lay short of these bunkers?
So I'm trying to game plan to take trouble out
of play, meaning give myself a good idea of Okay,
(27:26):
to hit it into that water, I would have to
hit the golf ball x amount of distance. So to
not hit it in the water, one of the easiest
ways to do that is just take a club that
is going to take the water out of play. So
that was the thing that that Mingbo said was really
important for him. The game plan and the strategy that
(27:46):
we had got him staying away from the trouble because
there was a specific plan to where the plan was, Okay,
we're game planning this to try and keep you away
from the danger spot, to try and keep you away
from a bunker that you could hit it in. That's
tough to get up and down from a pin position
(28:07):
that you don't even aim at because of the way
the green works. And I just think so many people
go out and play golf or see with just not
one thought in their head about how they're actually going
to play the game that day. It's just golf. Swing
golf swing, golf swing mechanics, mechanics, mechanics, see the only
(28:30):
sport that does it. There's no sports. So like if
right now in the US we're in football season, think
about going out and having you know, a football coach
is going to stand there with a giant laminated you know,
play calls of plays that they can call, and then
he's looking at the game. He's figuring out what is
(28:50):
happening in the game. They're trying to figure out is
the run game working really well. They'll keep running run plays.
If the run plays are running well, that open up
the passing place if the quarterback gets hurt and they
have to bring in a second string quarterback that doesn't
have a great arm, that's a Plan B strategy. So
they're not going to be taking a lot of deep
(29:12):
shots downfield. They're going to be doing a lot of
dump offs, check downs to try and get some confidence
and things like that. And I think if you could
look at other sports, yes, and think, okay, all the
other sports, the team sports that everybody that's listening, if
you follow team sports, and you think about whatever sport
(29:32):
that is, American football, European football, soccer, rugby, cricket, tennis.
Your tennis players have a you know, they can talk
to their coaches. Now professional tennis players, the coaches can
talk to them, so they're shouting out strategy. They're telling
them what to do. They're saying, go to the foehand, more,
go to the forehand, more set up more opportunities here
(29:53):
and there. So all of the sports that everyone listening watches,
think about everything. As a fan, you expect from your team.
You expect them to have a really good strategy. You
expect them to know what the opponent's strengths and weaknesses
are and stuff like that. If you follow, you know,
(30:13):
Real Madrid, Man United, the Dallas Cowboys, the Los Angeles Lakers.
You expect those teams and those coaches of those teams
every time they play. You expect them as a fan
to have a good game plan. And how many times
are seed you You know, when we listen to other
sports at the end of the game, when they interview
(30:34):
the coaches or at halftime, what do they say. If
they're going in at halftime, they'll be saying, listen, we've
got to make some adjustments. This is what's working. But
we can't keep leaving ourselves. We can't keep making these mistakes.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Got to execute better execute.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
So then at the end of the game, you'll have
coaches when they win or when they get beat, they'll say, listen,
I thought we had a really good game plan today.
We stuck to the game plan, and you know that's
one of the reasons why we won. Or sometimes you
hear coaches that are on the losing side and say, listen,
we had a really good game plan today. We stuck
to the plan. I think our guys really played well.
(31:08):
We just got beat today, ye right, I think you
want to get in from a golf standpoint, you want
to be in that headspace when you go into playing
golf at your home course, that you've got a really
good strategy, that you have a plan B strategy, you
have a checkdown that you know, Okay, these are the
(31:29):
holes today that I'm really going to focus on and
just try and make nine pars. Right. If I could
find half the golf course where I focus solely on
nine pars, that's it, and then the other nine holes go, Okay,
these are the difficult holes. So maybe these are the
holes where my strategy is I'm just going to try
(31:51):
and bogie these four or five holes.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
If I can get out of these four or five
holes with bogies and have a really good strategy no
where I want to hit it. You know, again, the
game plan blueprint that we gave Mingbo based off of
a successful game plan that you came up with for
Garrett Barber. Have two kids win the state championship, you
know in under ten years, that's a pretty good I
(32:17):
think we've kind of used this as Okay, if we
can do this on a very very specific golf course, right,
and I try and we try and talk to the
players you know that we work with give them the
tour stuff that you know, I'm lucky enough to be
around majors to where we're trying to spend a ton
(32:37):
of time around the green complexes. We're trying to figure
out where's the best place to miss it. We're trying
to figure out where's the best strategy off the tee
that can get us from point A to point B.
We're always saying, Arcie, from a mental standpoint, the only
thing you can control on a golf course is, first
(33:00):
of all, the only hole you can control is the
one you're playing, yep. And the only shot you can
control is the one you're playing right now. Right You
can't control what just happened on the last hole or
some of the shots that have happened early in the round.
You can't control what's going to happen in the future
on the holes you've got to play because you haven't
(33:21):
played them. So I think if you have a really
good game plan for every hole on your golf course,
keep it in your yardage book and say, yeah, I'm
just going to try and have a strategy that I
stick to. And then if you say, okay, I'm playing
really really good right now, regardless of my handicap. Okay,
(33:43):
maybe my strategy can change a little bit, maybe I
can be a little bit more go on offense and stuff.
But I think most players when they play golfer, they
never think of where do I need to play defense
and where do I need to play offense? Right to me,
that's one the things that separates competitive golfers at all levels.
(34:04):
The best competitive golfers in the world play offense when
they're supposed to play offense. They play defense when they're
supposed to play defense, and they know the difference. Yes,
the average golfer, and I think most golfers are just
everything is straight offense. They never think about playing defense.
Playing defense around your home course and knowing which holes
(34:25):
to play defense on is a massive way to break
the score barriers of one hundred, ninety eighty and par for.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
The first time, where defensive maybe three would instead of
driver lay up further back than where you would want
to typically and then hitting it to the correct side
of the green no matter where the pennants. That's playing
basically defensive golf, which what pro would do after annex
the triple where the junior turns it, turns it around
(34:54):
unless hit the next green in two and try to
make eagle.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, I think what happens to most golfers, and and
I've talked about this more times than I wish I
had to. Whenever something bad happens on the golf course,
because you don't have a strategy, because you don't have
a game plan or a plan B or this idea
of Okay, whatever just happened on this hole, I can't
(35:19):
fix it. As soon as that happens, I think to
most golfers is now the strategy just goes straight offense.
Now I'm just going to try and birdie every hole.
I'm gonna take as many chances as I can possibly take.
I'm going to be as reckless as I can possibly be.
I'm going to try and be as aggressive I possibly be.
(35:39):
So you don't even have a strategy. But as soon
as something bad happens, the strategy just goes. I push
all in on every single shot, on every single hole,
I just push all my chips in. And we say
this all the time. You're hoping that works. Hope isn't
a strategy, correct, You can't think that hope is a strategy.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Hall memory's in a row is not going to work.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
So you like eighteen birdies using GPS? What else do
you think people can use at their home course? What
are some things that they could be asking their head
pro or the assistant pros from an information standpoint? Hey,
what would be something you would want to ask?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, so in terms of the course previous stuff, the
eighteen birdies and arcos were great. What I would have
asked my head pro is, can you give me scoring averages?
Maybe from maybe the number guest tournaments? I can get
it from the college tournament here, the Vallas Park Collegiate.
I believe you should.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
You just want to try and get as much data
that you can get about the home course that you're playing.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
What is my handicap doing, my handicapp group doing. Let's
say if I'm a five to ten handicap, what is
the handicap group doing on the course. Where are they
losing their shots? How can I change my strategy to
save shots on those particular holes? First, and it doesn't
usually match the scorecard handicap So I mean, here a
(37:04):
good example. Number one is a really tough hole. At
fluidian number nine is a really tough hole. At fluidian
number eleven is a really tough hole at Floridian, Number
eighteen is a really tough hole, and those are identified
on the score card, like we know it's going to
be tough. So where are the sneaky heardholes? Number three
is a sneaky heardhole here. Number four par three really
(37:26):
difficult green to hit. Number five par five really difficult
green to hit. It's a really complex green complex that typically,
if I'm not mistaken, is the hardest of the par
fives for our college tournament. So what are these sneaky
little holes that kind of show up where the scoring
(37:47):
average is much higher than you would expect. That's where
you come in and say, why do I need to
change on my game plan that I can beat these
players in that group? And it's typically going to be
playing more of a defensive style. Skid a bogey and
get out of there.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And the other thing I think is important is you know,
at your home course, talk to the people that are
in your handicap bracket, right, but then talk to people
that are where you want to go from a handicap standpoint.
Talk to your club champion and say, hey, could I
pick your brain for five minutes? How do you play
(38:22):
this golf course? Right? Or you're in that kind of
higher handicap range to where you're you know, you're in
that kind of eighties shooter, like you're shoot in the
eighties and the low nineties. Talk to the guys that
are shooting in the seventies or talk to the players
and say, listen, how do you play this hole? What
do you do on this From a strategy standpoint, I
(38:44):
think the more information you can get it helps you
then come up with a game plan where you're like, Okay,
I didn't think this golf hole was hard. I never
really play it.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Now I get why it's hard, and now maybe I
change my strategy to play it correct. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Very simple data, right, very simple. Get it from your head,
pro get it from the USGA. It's all there in
front of it. And just to change your mindset on
those holes, whether it's a expectation that boge is okay here,
can help you play a better golf.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yeah, and then have a game plan for every hole
on your home course. Eighteen plans and you know you
could print that out and keep it and just so
then it's almost like having your own caddy. The caddy's
just going no, no, you don't hit driver here, we
know you hit three wood here yep. Right, So then
you're not getting ahead of yourself doing things that are
(39:40):
going to cause some issues, cause some problems, right.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
And one of the strands of Arcos and other Apple
lag is that the Arcos caddy does that for you.
So after you get several rounds of data, it has
an idea of how you should play each hole.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
How important do you feel breaking these score barriers, breaking
one hundred ninety eighty, breaking part for the first time.
How important do you feel data can play to help you.
It's like it's a cheat code almost.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
It's a cheat code. You have to have some sort
of background going into your course, and we call it data,
but it's basically information on how to play the course. Right,
He's got to have some level of knowledge, and the
more you dive in that gives you a strategical advantage
over the players you're playing with.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
And it also gives you a strategic if you think
about it, not from a tournament standpoint, but if you
can gain plan religiously and have a really good strategy
for your home course, it can help you kind of
think about, Okay, I want to break a hundred for
the first time. Yep, right, Okay, I've got to beat
(40:55):
one hundred. Okay, so what do I need to do
from a strategy standpoint. The opponent now is one hundred.
You know it's the arbitrary score and say, okay to
beat these arbitrary handicap defining. Hey, I want to get
down to a single digit. I want to break eighty
(41:16):
for the first time. I want to break ninety. But
a lot of players are just listen, man, if I
could shoot in the nineties all the time, then I
can start getting these other scorecard barriers. They become more
manageable and more realistic to break yep.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
By having a strategy, Yeah, create your own Bogie blueprint
at the game. You did a couple of podcasts ago,
get some ws, build some momentum and not even thinking
about trying to break those barriers instead of trying to
just win the hole with the correct game plan is
going to help you lower those scores.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
And listen, it's hard to do this, right. First of all,
it's never been easier, I think, to come up with
the game plan. It's never It's never been easier with
all of the technology available, right, But sticking to that
game plan.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
That's the hard part.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
It's hard, but if you don't ever think about it
like that. Now, I think, you know, in terms of
you know, mingbo one of the things that I think
this strategy that we helped him with it's going to
help him as he now transitions from a high school
junior golfer and next fall transitions into a Division I
(42:31):
college golfer. I think it's going to make that transition
easier because he's going to be thinking better and he's
going to be thinking more like the players that he's
competing against, and the college coaches. Everybody at the college
level is doing this correct. So I'm always trying to,
(42:53):
you know, on the podcast, focus on things that we
see in the real competitive world, the PGA Tour Live
DP Asia, wherever guys are LPG wherever people trying to play.
What we see at the Division I college level, from
the coaches and the players and the programs that we're lucky,
(43:13):
what we know that players are using to Monday qualify
and stuff like that. But having a game plan, having
a strategy, I think it's the easiest way to get
you out there playing golf, and get you out there
not playing golf.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
Swing you can basically make it an intangible skill just
to be able to outgame plan your competitors.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Or to outgain plan one hundred. Yes, there's a cheat
code to break a one hundred. Right, there's a cheat
code to breaking ninety. Yes, your golf swing is a
big part of that. But your golf swing can't exist
in a vacuum. If you're never going to play golf
until your golf swing is good, then you're going to
(43:59):
probably not be playing a lot of golf, and you're
going to be spending a lot of time on the range.
And if you are really hyper focused on breaking these
score barriers one hundred, ninety eighty, breaking power for the
first time, I think game planning is a vital part
of that and some of the easiest low hanging fruit
(44:22):
wins you can get because you then basically say, Okay,
for the next four to five hours, I'm not going
to think about my golf swing. I'm just going to
think about what my game plan is. What plays am
I going to run as a head coach today? What
am I going to do from an offensive standpoint? What
am I going to do from a defensive standpoint? And
(44:43):
I'm just going to see for eighteen holes at my
home course. Maybe just try it for nine and say,
you know what, I'm just going to go out trying
nine hole game plan and see what that does. Wow,
that really did have an effect on my score. Okay,
I'm going to try and do it now for eighteen holes,
and then I'm going to try and do it every
(45:04):
time I play perfect.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I think would be a great way to play golf
where you take the arbitrary score out of it and
just trying to execute game plans, trying to execute a
bogie proof blueprint. That's type of style of golf where
it's just kind of the culture to be putting the
numbers down on the scorecard, but let's put something else
down on the score card. Yeah, and let's think notes
down on the course.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah. And then I think that's the other thing on
the golf course. Take notes, take notes, and see what
worked what didn't work. I think then you have a
better opportunity to go into your blueprint, your game plan
and your strategy and say, listen, this really works for
me when I do this on this hole, and this
(45:46):
doesn't work for me when I do this. You'll figure
out quite quickly which strategy works and which strategy doesn't correct.
And that's what the best players in the world are doing.
So we got another We helped another player solve the
puzzle of playing competitive golf. I think that's a big
(46:08):
part of what our jobs are as golf coaches and instructors. Yes,
we're trying to make their golf swings better, but we're
also trying to help them play the game better. Good
stuff are see always really really good. Your instagram golf
Chaos Managed, you talk about a lot of this stuff.
Go check it out. It's The Son of Aitch podcast.
We will see you next week.
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