Lydia Ko's Caddy Paul Cormack

Paul Cormack sits down with Claude to reflect on a historic summer run on the bag for Lydia Ko as she won gold at the 2024 Paris Olympics, secured her spot in the LPGA Hall of Fame and clinched her third major title at the AIG Women's Open in St. Andrews.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. I'm your host
Claude Harmon. This week's guest Paul Kormack. Paul Caddy's on
the bag with Lydia Coe. She's won a gold medal,
won her third major at the AIG Women's Open at St.
Andrew's And this is a really, really cool story. But
it's a fun one for me because Paul, he's from Scotland.
I used to live in Scotland from Aberdeen. I used

(00:23):
to live in Aberdeen. But I used to teach him.
He was trying to play. He had status on PJ
Tour Canada, so back in kind of I think he
quit playing in twenty sixteen. He was trying to play.
I worked with him on his game. He was a
good player. But to watch the success he's had in
the caddy in ranks on the LPGA, I think he's

(00:43):
one of the best caddies in the world and it's
fun to watch him do what he does. I know
him well and to see him doing all the stuff
that he's doing to be a part of Lydia's team
to win an Olympic gold medal, which completes you know,
she's got a Bronze silver and now our gold and
then for Paul being from Scotland, from Aberdeen to be

(01:06):
on the bag for Lydia at the Home of Golf.
Such is such a cool story. I'm really excited for
everyone to hear this one. Paul Kormack on the Son
of a Butch podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
All right, I guess today Paul Cormack, Paul, you and
I worked together when you were trying to play competitive
professional golf. You know, you, like a lot of players,
came from overseas, came to America with aspirations to play.
How did you get into caddying and what was the
decision making behind becoming a caddy. We'll get to the

(01:40):
superstars you've caddied four and all the majors and all
that stuff. But I always think it's interesting ex players
their journey to becoming a professional caddy. I think we
see more of that now maybe than we did in
the past. Or a lot of players on the PGA
Tour that had status. There's a lot of guys out
on the LPGA that had status as well. But your
journey to becoming a professional caddy from trying to play,

(02:04):
what was the decision behind that?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
I mean, the decision was probably it was probably my
easiest way to get back into that competitive environment of
where I wanted to be. And as you know, I
was a member at Bay Hill. I was lucky enough
to be a member there for about five years. And
it was Maria Huorth her husband. She used to play
on the LPGA tour. Her husband, Sean McBride was a caddy.

(02:30):
He carried on the LPGA for a long time, caddied
on the PGA Tour and I think at that time
he might have been carrying for Bryce Moulder. And when
I stopped playing, he basically we sat and had a
beer in the clubhouse and he was like, what are
you going to do? And I was like, I've got
no idea. But obviously I wanted to remain in golf.
I mean, I'm not the smartest person on the planet.
And I was like, I don't know how I'm going

(02:51):
to make any money unless it's something involved in golf.
And I thought about coaching, and then I was like,
I'm gonna have to go in at kind of the
bottom level and then work my way up and then
you know, there's no guarantees there. I mean, there was
no guarantees Caddian, but like, I figured that I could
probably work my way up quicker with the knowledge that
I have in the game caddying than I could anything else.
So that was kind of it. And I told him

(03:13):
for a start, I was like, I don't want to
do it, as like it sounds miserable, and he kind
of kept on at me and he was like, you'd
be really good at it, and I kind of I
was like, okay. I was like, put me in touch
with some people. I eventually got in touch with some people,
and then dude called me. He's like, do you want
to come and work at Kingsmill for an American rookie?
And I said yes, And that was it, and I'm

(03:34):
still doing it today. I mean, I love it, but
it's definitely a different side of the game.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
How many years ago was that, because I'm trying to
think of when you made the decision to quit trying
to play full time.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
Twenty and sixteen was the last time I went to
Q school, so it would have been May of two
thousand and seventeen that I started caddy in.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
So the first player you worked with was.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Here, Maddie Shields.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Maddie shield How long that last.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Uh six events. I did kings Mill Shopwright Tournament in
Our Arbor, Michigan. I think we did a tournament in Canada,
did another one in Michigan and Grand Rapids, and I
think Arkansas was the last one. And I drove every
single one of the other than I took my car,
and my car at the time was a Kia Optima,

(04:22):
and it broke down in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The engine seized,
and so I had to rent a car and drive
to Arkansas. And I drove all the way back to
Orlando with this rental car.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
The glamorous life of professional golf. Yeah, so when you
started out, give yourself a grade those first six tournaments
is to caddy versus where you are.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Today, Ah, like two or three. I mean, I had
no idea. I mean it's just completely different. I mean
that's the thing. Like I remember once I'd kind of
got to know some of the guys. Davy Jones, who
now caddies for Running Yin. He was caddying for Suzanne
Patterson at the time, and obviously he's Northern. I I
was chatting away to him and he's like, oh yeah,

(05:02):
I used to play as well. And all that kind
of stuff, and I remember it. So after six events,
ni on Troi called me, so I worked for her.
The first event I worked for ni on Choi is
the US Open at Trump Medminster. I'm in this golf course,
like I've never seen a US Open golf course at
all in the flash and I'm walking this thing and
I'm like, how do we get around here? I'm like, right,
I'm like, Dave, can you give me a little bit

(05:22):
of kind of pointers? And He's like, you just need
to figure out roughly where you're going to be. He's like,
then you know, you get the heads that you think
you're gonna need. He's like, then you just kind of
work off that. He's like, if you've always got like
a reference point, He's like, you can basically work off that.
He's like, it's not too difficult. So the first six events,
I would say that I would have been probably like
a two or three. I wouldn't have been any good
Like I was. I was. I understood golf, but I

(05:44):
don't like I understood the art of caddying. I still
don't think I do.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I think a lot of people will find that very
interesting because obviously trying to play professionally. You play college
golf in America, you know, you had some status. P
J turt Canada, you know how to play golf. But
what is the difference? Because I look at a guy
like Austin Johnson, right AJ, who's caddy for his brother DJ.

(06:08):
When AJ came out, he didn't know anything, right, he
played college basketball, He wasn't a golfer. And AJ has
turned into one of the best caddies in the world.
And it's just not because he caddies for his brother.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, but that jump from.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Playing competitively to caddya, what's the difficulty because in my mind,
I think there would be a lot of it that
would be similar.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
It is, Yeah, I think because you're not doing it
for yourself and you're actually doing it for somebody else.
And it's like like my like I listen to a
lot of different podcasts and stuff like that, and fear
of failure, and I think I played golf that way,
like I didn't want, like I was scared, so like
I ultimately when I played, I played scared. But then
with like the math that goes in with caddying and

(06:53):
kind of like the wind and all that kind of stuff.
It was like kind of like, Okay, I don't want
to get it wrong, but it's like you don't want
to get it wrong for somebody else. Like for me,
if I got it wrong for myself, then I'm like
all right whatever, like I can get up and down
or whatever. But it's like you just like you don't
want to get a show it at.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
When you're trying to get numbers and stuff like that,
you have to do it quite quickly, and you want
to get the information as a caddy as quickly as
you can so that you can give the information to
the player and say, listen, this is this is what
we've got. You know, it's one sixty eight to the front,
it's one fifty to carry the bunk or whatever it is.

(07:29):
Then you can kind of go into the strategy part
of it. But I don't think people realize. I mean,
I could never be a caddy unless I can use
the rain further because I basically can't add. I mean,
I'd have to take my shoes off and I'd be
counting on your fingers and I'd always get the number one.
But the mass part of it early on, did that

(07:50):
take some adjusting to get used to, or is it
just repetition. You just get used to doing it. Are
you someone that adds in your head or are you
someone that writes it down?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah? No, it probably took me a little bit of
a minute of adjustment because on the mini tours, although
in Canada, I don't think that we could use range
finders when I was in Canada, but like playing the
Hooter's Tour and like the E Goolf and all that
kind of stuff, we could use rangefinders, but like I
had to then go back to pacing it and you know,
angles and all that kind of stuff when I first

(08:19):
went out in the LPG. Now we can use range finders,
which I hate because I actually think it takes away
from the guys that go and walk the golf course
and figure out angles and you know dog legs if
you're down the left and the pins on the left
and it's going to play shorter, Like everybody has that information.
Whereas I said, I wasn't smart, but I'm probably smart
enough to figure out, you know, if it's going to
play shorter or longer. But yeah, it's not. I don't

(08:41):
write anything down like a lot of guys will write down,
you know, like one fifty plus fifteen one sixty five.
I just do it all in my head, and I
find actually find that kind of humorous because I was
crap at math in school. I mean, it's simple math,
but like I had to write everything down when I
was in school, So now I don't do it, so yeah,
it's I don't know, it's weird, but yeah, no, I

(09:04):
don't do any of the edition or whatever subtraction in
my book. I just do all on my head.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I've had my uncle Billy on the pod a couple
of times. He caddied for Jayhawk for thirty years. I
asked him what he thought made a great caddy. He says,
find a good player. You found a good player in
Anna Nord. Chris. You worked with Anna for four years.
You guys won the Women's British Open in twenty twenty
one at Carnoustie. Working for a great player, you learn

(09:32):
a lot. Anna has been a great player her entire career,
Major Spoheim Cup. When you finally had that four year
run with an established one of the big superstars in
the game, what did you learn from those four years
that have helped you now in this hint that you've

(09:55):
had with Lydia co with the amazing things that Lydia
has done over the line. We'll get to that, but
you get to work with Anna nor Quist. She's a
great player. Would you learn from that experience?

Speaker 3 (10:11):
The probably the best players in the world work a
lot harder than probably what I even gave them credit for.
Like I used to think that I worked hard like
that last year that I played golf in two and sixteen.
I mean I was I was often up at five
thirty and I wouldn't get home until five thirty at
night when I was in Orlando. Then you turn up
to a tournament and you're just absolutely done and you're
no good. But like they they are very good at

(10:33):
using their time wisely. They you know, they work incredibly hard.
They have a belief in themselves. But I think the
other thing that I found of it, like kind of
like the obviously the negative side of it, is that
they are also human, you know what I mean, Like
they have things going on in their lives that they
have to deal with, but it's unreal that they can

(10:53):
throw it to the side for five hours on a
golf course and go out and shoot, you know, sixty
eight sixty seven sixty five, whoever it is, and it's
it's very, very impressive that they can do that. Because
I had this conversation on the range three weeks ago
in France with one of the guys that was helping
with the New Zealand team, and I was like, I
used to think that every professional golfer was a robot.

(11:16):
I was like, and that's just not the case. And
I think that's probably part of where I failed a
little bit, was that I was trying to be something
that I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, I mean, I do think that it's easy to
look at place. I always marvel it the way that
you know, all the players that I've been lucky enough
to work with, how they can compartmentalize the things that
are going on around them. Yeah, you know that they can,
Like you said, they can come to the golf course
not in great mood, something's gone on off the golf course,
but as soon as they kind of step inside the rope,

(11:44):
everything kind of it hanges. Were you impressed with Anna's
game were you surprised at I always think it's it's
a combination of the two. Right. The best players in
the world hit really really good shot, But yeah, they
also their mediocre shop and the way they managed themselves, Yeah,

(12:07):
is amazing from a course management standpoint. In the four
years he worked within a would you learn about how
she manages her game on the golf course?

Speaker 3 (12:18):
I mean out of like even probably out of anybody
on the LPG, I would say she probably has the
best course management because she just placed her strengths, Like
she will never ever put us or try and ever
put herself in a situation where she feels like she's
under pressure to hit a shot that she's not comfortable hitting.
So like, there was plenty of times where we could
be standing there, you know, perfect number pins, maybe in

(12:41):
a little bit of a kind of an if he's
spot or whatever, and she's like, I'm just going to
hit it to twenty feet and it's like perfect. And
that's just the way that she would play golf. And
if you look at look back on our career, I
mean she's been incredibly consistent. I mean generally finish like
she always finishes in the top sixty on the CMME list.
She's generally pretty high up there. She normally has, like

(13:01):
every good or great professional golfer, she has her five
or six week run where she finishes inside the top fifteen,
top ten, pretty much has it every year, but she
just played to her strength. That was another thing that
like I think I learned was that it was like
you don't have to be an idiot on the golf course,
which a lot of amateurs can probably take stuff from,
because it's like they're trying to pull off shots that

(13:21):
they're not really capable of, and they're putting themselves in
positions that they're definitely not capable of, either getting up
and down or no taking on shots off the tee,
and it's like it's actually kind of boring. If you
watch good professional golf, it's the most boring golf you'll
ever watch. It is, literally because they're generally in the
middle of the fairway or they're just off and again
TV probably doesn't really do them justice because you see

(13:43):
the highlights and all you see is them hitting it's
five feet every day or every every hole, and it's
like that's not the case. Like there's a lot of
like last week at Saint Andrew's with Lydia, I mean
there was a lot of like just twenty five thirty
forty feet two pats par move on, like just limit
the mistakes. That's essentially what the best players do, is
they just eliminate mistakes.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, and I think that I do think that everyone
listening to the pod, we are so skewed by television.
They're showing you on the weekends, even you know, in
the men's and the women's game. On the weekends, you're
going to see the best players who are playing the
best golf. The only time you're going to really see

(14:23):
anything else is if you're seeing a superstar that isn't
in contention knock at the three feet or a superstar
rinse one out of bounds or hit it in the
water and do something stupid. But other than that, you're
basically the television is focusing on the five to ten
players that are going to have a chance to win.
They're playing the best that week. Yeah, they are going

(14:45):
to highlight their best shops. But I think that it's
something that I've that with, something that I said to
you when you were trying to play, is minimize the mistake. Yeah,
and I don't think everyone that listens to this part understands.
I say it all the time. I'm sure people get
tired of hearing it. It's great that someone like you
is saying as well, twenty feet is a good shot.

(15:09):
The average golfer who's the fifteen handicapper thinks hitting twenty
feet it's a bad shot.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah, it's crazy, it's yeah, No, it's absolutely insane. I
mean you see every week in pro ams and it's
like they're hitting shots and they're like, oh, that's no good.
It's like you've just hit five iron to thirty five feet, Like,
what's wrong with that? It's on the green two potts, move.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
On and you can't hit five iron to thirty feet.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
No, yeah, exactly, You've actually done something really remarkable there,
and you're taking as a negative like it's in sanni.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, I mean, if you just I mean we say
it all the time, right, and the pro ams the
majority I mean the majority of the people playing in
pro ams. In professional golf, I'd say you're more surprised
when they hit the green from the fairway than you
are if they miss the green. If you get like
a group of you know, if you're lucky, if you
get three golfers and they all hit the first fairway

(15:58):
in the first green, you're looking at you and Lydia
are looking at this. The other going, this could be
fun today.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, it's a nice easy day. Yeah, exactly, because that's
that generally doesn't happen. I mean the amount of non
golfer she get in a pro am as well. I'm
sure it's the same when the PGA Tour live or whatever.
And it's just mental. It's like, would you ever go
and throw a ball around on an NFL field, like
in a warm up? Like you've got no chance after.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Four years after a major, you made the decision to
go to the men's route, tread your hand at the
PGA Tour, But then you get the call from Lydia Coe,
a major champion. I mean, her career is it's a
great story. I don't think people realize she's talking that

(16:40):
she's what twenty seven now, she's saying that she's probably
not gonna play past thirty. I think a lot of
people think that's crazy. She won her first professional tournament
in twenty twelve, she's fourteen years old. She is one
of those players that has won. She's grown up in
front of all of us. But two, she's the player
golf were so long, and he's in her late twenties,

(17:05):
and you've got to think that she's just like, man,
I've been doing this a long long time. Her career
has the arc of her career. I think it's been
so impressed. But when just like you and I are
hired guns right, we get hired by professional golfers, professional athletes.
So when you get the call from someone like Lydia Coe,

(17:27):
you're trying your hand on the PGA Tour. We all
know that if you want to make a ton of
money as a caddy, the PGA Tour is the place
to do it. You can do it on live now
as well, but you really want to make legit money
as a caddy, you caddy on the PGA Tour. You
were trying to do that, trying to get into the
men's game. But then somebody like Lydia Co calls you.

(17:48):
I read where you said you'd have been stupid if
you'd have called me that Lydia Coe called you, and
you turn that down. I mean, I don't think I
ought to talk to you again. I mean you had
to make But what's it like? How did that decision
come about? How did you get the call? Did she
call you? Did the manager call you? What happened? Because
I always think that's a cool story. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
No, she She called me on the Monday after the
Women's Writish Open last year. So I was sitting at
my home in Saint Pete and at that point I
was working for Kevin Chapel, and she was like, I
need a caddy. Would you be interested in caddy in?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Do you know her?

Speaker 3 (18:27):
I knew her a little bit. We've been paired with
her a few times when I were I mean and
Lydia is lovely. I mean everybody asks that, like you know,
she as nice as she seems, and I was like
one hundred percent, like she will literally sign every autograph,
She'll speak to every kid, you know, so on and
so forth. But yeah, she called. I actually missed her
call for a start, and I text her and I
was like, can I call you in an hour? And
she was playing golf in San France. So this is

(18:48):
the Monday after she's missed the cut at the Women's
Writis Open. She's already back home, she's playing golf and
she's like, i'll call you when I get done. So
she called me and she was like, look, she's like,
I'm looking for a caddy. I got a list of
names from our agent and she's like you were on
my list. She's like, and you're my first call. She's like,
would you be interested in caddying for me? And I
was like one hundred percent, Like as I said, you would.

(19:09):
You would have to be an idiot to say no.
I mean, I know that she was struggling at that point,
but it's like, and if you look at our career,
like there's been a lot of lows, but like the
highs are super high. And I knew that she wasn't
a million miles away from you know, a couple of wins.
She would get in the Hall of Fame. I knew
that obviously with it being an Olympic year, you know,
if I do a decent job and we get to there,

(19:30):
like I got the chance of obviously potentially winning a medal,
and I knew that obviously gold would complete the set
for her and all that kind of stuff. And I
was just like, yeah, I was like this, you know,
I was on the PGA tour with Chapel, but like
I was kind of like you know what, I was like,
this is going to be better for me long term
than doing what I was doing, Like I could better
myself doing that. It's a selfish reason. But like players

(19:52):
and caddies move for selfish reasons all the time, and
I was like selfishly, I was like, I think that
this is going to fit me a little bit better,
and I said yes, I was like cool. So then
I think we had a week that was a week off,
and I think the following week was Canada, and that's
where we started.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
When you started with a big eight years since she
won her last major, and like you said, the arc
of her career has been, you know, massive highs, but
also some lows. And when when you guys got together,
she wasn't necessarily in the form, certainly nowhere near the
form that she is now when you go to work
or a player of her caliber, obviously she's a great player.

(20:36):
The resume says she's a great player. I mean, you're
taking her on and all she's got to do is
win a couple of craws. I mean, the criteria to
get into the LPGA Hall of Fame could be tougher
than to get into Ike or Harvard. I still don't
understand how they just can't make it much easier, and
look at someone like Lydia Cohen, go you're in the
Hall of fame of the eyepat When you go to

(20:58):
work for her, what's that first week like is a
caddie working with a new player, because obviously your job
is your job. You know how to caddy, you know
what the ardages, you know numbers are. But I say
this all the time and people laugh. My wife always,
you know, says I can't say, but professional golfers are
like dogs. They communicate with you non verbally correct and

(21:18):
they don't say a lot either. You're constantly trying to
figure out by the walk up, by when they show up,
and normally within about i've even less than that, you
can tell if they're in a good mood or a
bad man.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
So that getting to know a player early on, but
also getting to know a player of her caliber that
obviously she's done great things, She's won majors, she's won
a bunch of tournaments. Is that scary? Is it? What's
that like for you? Iusly?

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, I was probably scared a little bit. I don't
like I would use the word intimidated, but I was
definitely scared because I was like, you know, Chapel hunn't
been playing the backs like, and that's all respect to him,
I mean, he's a great player, but he was obviously struggling.
And it's kind of like I didn't question if I
was any good at what I did, but it was
just kind of like I needed to get back into
kind of like a little bit of mojo, a little

(22:11):
bit flow. And then when I got out there, like
I had met Lydia obviously plenty of times before, i'd
never met her sister and or you know, her sister
was very much kind of like, you know, we're struggling
right now, but everything's gonna be fine. And I'm like,
I know it is. I was like, she's really really
good and she's only twenty six. I'm like, it's not
like and I told the Scottish media this on Sunday

(22:32):
last week. I was like, it's not like she's thirty
seven or forty, like, which in the women's game is
obviously very not very old, but it's generally on the
older end, whereas in the guys, I mean, they're almost
just peaking at that time. I was like, she's got
plenty of years left, and I think I just brought
kind of a little bit of positivity. I was like,
you know, it's fine, like bad golf happens. Everybody goes
through that stretch. So that first week, and as he said,

(22:55):
it was a lot of like, Okay, well what do
I need to do to help her? And she's like
any good at setting stuff up on the and green.
So I'm out there, you know, twenty minutes before she
comes out on the pot and green, setting up drills
and putting the cones out in the range. You know,
you've got like a new routine. Like everybody's got the routine.
But it's like it's different for every player. You know,
some start on the range, some starting to pot and green,
and yet no, it was actually it was actually really easy.

(23:16):
Like after that first day, I was like, you know what,
it's like, this is like I could I can deal
with this. This isn't that difficult. I'm probably building up
in my own head to be something that's not. And
it was fine. I mean, by your own mission. She
didn't play very good that week. I think we shot
eighty one on the third day and she really didn't
do a whole lot wrong. She just didn't drive it
very good. That we were at Shaughnessy in Vancouver. I

(23:36):
don't know if you've ever been there, isn't it. It's
single file down the fairways. I mean, like you don't
even need to hit a bad t shot and you're
basically just chipping out sideways. So and I was like, well,
that's going to be you know, like you're driving. Missus
A probably been heightened a little bit. The roff was long,
you know, Lydia is not the longest on tour. So
it's like when you're standing there in the rough and

(23:56):
it's thick and you do have a shot and you've
got seven iron in in the green, are almost us
open like, and somebody's standing there with a wedge, it's
like it's going to be way easier for them than
it is her. So it's like it's fine, Like bad
golf happens. You don't shoot eighty one very often, and
you might not ever shoot eighty one in a tournament again,
but you did it today, So like let's just move
on like it's it's just golf. Unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, And I think sometimes that refresh of just you
know what happens with coaches as well. I mean, players
move on and they say, listen, I just want to
try something different. I want to try something new. That's
always the worst thing to hear, right, you know, in
our business, you know, it's always that it's not you
with me than right, Yeah, you know, you just want
to try something new. So I think the last time
I saw you was that the Loo's at the end

(24:42):
of last year.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
This year in Orlando, sort of this year, that's right.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
The sort of this year in Orlando, which you guys
won that tournament. When Lydia plays for best, what do
you feel makes for such a great player?

Speaker 3 (24:57):
Well, I mean that weekend Orlando. I mean, obviously she's
familiar with the golf course. She's a member there. She
lives right off the second hole. I mean, so it's
like it's like when I go back, like I don't
I don't play a whole lot of golf anymore. But
if I go back and play a track, I know,
it's like you almost free wheel it a little bit.
And it's like she should very calm. I mean, it's
probably the same with the players that you work with.
It's like they're very calm. Everything kind of comes to
them kind of very slowly, and like nothing ever gets

(25:20):
in their way. But when Lydia hits it in the
fair way more often than not, and I know that
sounds very cliche, and every player is exactly the same,
but more so with her, it's like I feel like
she thinks she's like, Okay, well I can attack this week,
like I can be aggressive when I need to be,
you know, in her in the positions that she wants
to and it's like, you know, like last week, I

(25:40):
think on fourteen, shit driver off the deck, and I
saw in the commentary or wherever they're like, this is amazing.
And it's like she does that every week, Like she
will literally hit drive her off the deck almost every week.
I mean, and it's a hard shot. But yeah, I
think when she's when she's nice and calm, she's got
her mind quiet and she's peaceful, and that just allows
her to I think, because that's the thing. Even through

(26:00):
the course of seventy two holes, you're not going to
every shot exactly the way you want it, but the
quicker you can brush it off, then you get back
to the way that you were playing.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
So man, so it's so funny listening to you talk
like this because this is one hundred and eighty degrees
from the way you thought when you tried to play
profession Yeah, I mean, you were, you were nervous, you
were always doubting, you were never trusting of what you
were doing your own game and all of that, and
you're you're talking about, not surprisingly, one of the best

(26:30):
players in the women's game, and the mental strength she's
got is a positive. What's she like as a player
to cadge? What does she want? What does she not want?
Does she want a lot of information? Does she want
to make the decision? Is it a collaboration between the
two of you.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
It's probably a little bit of both in terms of decision.
Like seventeen last week on the Saturday, for example, when
the pin is behind that road hole, Bunker and I
had been telling her and both are three time or
the twice that we played that hole in the pro am.
Then in the practice round, I was like, if the
pin's on the left, we're hitting it left. You know
that you've been there, like yeah, I mean that hole

(27:08):
was a long hole for them. I mean, if you've
got a nine iron our wedge, Aron, maybe go out.
But we were always miles back. I mean I think
the shortest we had in there to the front was
probably like one hundred and sixty yards maybe. I mean
that pins thirty on, so I think on the Saturday
we had two hundred wind was straight across right to
left and she's like, can I just hit it on
the front right part of the green And I'm like no.

(27:29):
I'm like, because if it ends up being short, you
can't get that close. Like the closest you're gonna get
it's probably fifteen or twenty feet. You're making exactly you're
going to make a bogie. I was like, so we
have to hit it left and she's like, I thought
you were going to say that. So like I'm then
giving her a line. We've got like a tent or
whatever that I'm trying to get her to hit it on.
She's like, well, can I not just hit it on
the seventeen on the TV tower and it was like
left half of the road hole bunker and I'm like no,

(27:51):
And she's like why And I'm like, because we don't
want to be long. I was like, and we don't
want to be in there. I was like, and I
was basically begging her. I was like, can you please
just hit it a little further left? I mean, again,
you're just essentially trying to get her a play her
strengths I mean, and that's the thing as a caddyo.
It's like, I'm not there to tell her how to
play golf or any of the players that I've ever
worked how to play golf. But it's like you're just
trying to not get them to screw up. Essentially, it's like,

(28:14):
just don't do something done, Like let's be smart here.
So I'm saying it's it's pretty much a collective thing.
But like again very cliche. Every caddy'll tell you this.
If they're playing good, just stay out of the way,
you know what I mean. It's like dermot Burn always
told me. He was like, always listen rather than talk.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
That's an interesting one.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
And I'm like, that's He's like, they're the best players
in the world. He's like, they're going to tell you
what they do and don't want to do. And I'm like,
it's probably it. So it was said that whenever he
had a good day, you'd come back to the Airbnb
and he'd tell me he was like, I did a
lot of listening today.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
Let's talk about the Olympics. What a week Lydia had
won a silver, she'd won a bronze. She now has
a gold medal, What was the week like for you guys?
The Sunday, you guys were cruising five shot lead at
one point, and then you guys make double on thirteen.
That's a funky golf course. She hooped one early from

(29:08):
like what like forty feet?

Speaker 3 (29:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Like eight or nine right around the turn. Yeah, seven,
And you know, she had a five shot lead on Sunday,
but then all of a sudden that lead goes away.
That finished at Golf National ain't easy either, you know, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,
those little holes I think at that golf course, Paul,

(29:32):
where you have to stand up and you can't fake it.
You just have to hit a quality golf shot. Yeah,
you've got to hit the fairway off the tee, You've
got to stand up and hit the green, hit the
right shot into there. And then eighteen as well, I
think eighteen you just have to stand up and hit
really really good shot. What was the week like for
you guys? And what was that Sunday like?

Speaker 3 (29:53):
The week as I sent you earlier, I mean the
week she was she was very calm. I mean I
know that it was a big deal for her. I mean,
I'm not a massive proponent for golf in the Olympics.
I've probably changed my mind a little bit now, but yeah,
it was. It was calm, like I did the Olympics
before with Anna in Tokyo. That was obviously during COVID,
so there was no fans. So I remember the first

(30:15):
day we had Selene Boutier playing in front of us,
obviously French, I mean, and there must have been ten, twelve,
maybe even fifteen thousand people following her. And you've been there, right, Yeah,
golf course, I mean, it's it's unbelievable, like it's a
great setting for respect there.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
The golf course is down in the bottom of all
the hills. And then yeah, it feels like up above
you is where like a lot of the fans are.
You kind of feel like the fans were on top
of you when you're in the middle of those parawis.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, it's like an amphitheater. I mean, and the sound
was traveling. I mean she I think Selene shot sixty
five that first day and me and Lydia kept on
saying all around it's like she must have just been
loving this. But like the adrenaline that she had must
have been insane. But yeah, no, I mean that first
day was really tough as well. I think we shot
even maybe the first day maybe one under I can't remember. Then,
Like as just as the week went on, it was

(31:04):
kind of the same as last week. I mean, it's
just again it sounds stupid and it's it's repetitive, but
it's like you just minimize the mistakes. It's like, if
you're playing good, you know you're gonna get your birdies.
You know you're gonna get your looks. The wind was
kind of helpful for us on a pretty much all
of the longer holes, like the par fives, and it
was just like, okay, well, if we do what we're

(31:25):
meant to do, then you're gonna have you know, X
amount of looks every day, good chances for birdie. And
it's just like, you know, you've got the as you said,
like thirteen is not a particularly easy hole. You got
hit the fairway there or you're I mean, I would
think that the girls that the majority of girls that
missed the fairway on thirteen, which is not particularly hard
to do, you've probably been laying up fifteen. You don't
hit it on that fairway. I mean, you can obviously
get it over the back of the green. But like,

(31:46):
as you said, it's like you you can't fake it.
You've got you've got to back yourself and you've got
to you've got to just stand there and execute.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Really eighteenth pole. I mean, obviously she knows what she's
about to do, but we all have to get through
that stretch. You got to hit the fair way. She
laid up the mindset and her demeanor on that eighteenth
hole different than the rest of the week or was
it just normal.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
No, just exactly the same. I mean, we got onto
that tea and the wind was kind of it was
kind of switching around a little bit, and if it'd
be not off the left, I would probably have liked Driver.
And I think she did the same or whatever. And
she was like, is it Driver or three Wood? And
I was like, well right now. And I looked over
and there was flags up that were to the right
of seventeen, to the left of where we were looking,
and they were kind of going straight across, and I

(32:34):
just felt the wind to go down. She's like, can
I hit three Wood? And I was like absolutely. I
was like, because I knew that three Wood would take
out that kind of in between shot where it was
like do we go for the green or do we
have to lay it up? And it was like, she
can hit this as good or as bad as she wants.
It's going to be fine, and we're probably gonna have
a seven or eight are and down there to lay up. Then.
I mean that pin actually was fairly easy for the layup.

(32:57):
It wasn't a particularly easy pin if you were to
go for the green because it was kind of right
on that mound where all slopes away.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, there is that kind of ridge there where everything.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Like in the practice round when it was straight down wind.
I mean we had a seven iron that ran out
thirty yards on that green basically into the hazard and
they'd softened up as the week had gone on. But
once we had got it in the fairway, I was
like all right. I was like, well, probably the hardest
shot now for her is just to lay up, which
was perfect. It was like one hundred and fifty yards

(33:28):
eight iron down there. Then we left a really good number.
I think it was like seventy four maybe just a
just a chippy little sand wedge in there.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Oh, she had a beautiful sandwige in there.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, Like it was it was really good. It was
really and that's it. Like again, it talks to just
play your strengths. I mean, she was playing into department
of the game that she's like, Okay, well I know
that I'm extremely good from here, or she should know.
If she doesn't, then I'm going to tell her then.
And it's just like all right, you know. But then
obviously you're not thinking that way at the time, but

(33:58):
because obviously it's it's golf and there's a human element
to it, and it's like, okay, well something could still
go wrong. But yeah, she was fine. We got the number,
the wind was perfect for it. I mean, she had
a really really good shot in there.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Are you able in that moment? Yeah? She hits a
beautiful wedge shot. What was the number you said you.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Guys had I think it was seventy four yards somewhere
in there, so seventy four yards.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
He hit it to like four feet.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Great feet, yeah, six I think it was about six
feet six feet.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I mean, are you able in that moment where you're
walking up to just in your head just go man,
what what a great shot? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. I mean I don't
I don't show a whole lot of emotion when I'm
on a golf course. I know that some caddies will
be fist pumping and kind of and there's actually quite
a lot of the caddies will get a little disgruntled
or whatever. But like, I was just kind of like,
all right, I was like, well, we've still got a
two pot from there, you know what I mean, Like
you're you're thinking, I'm thinking, like probably in a little bit,
not in the negative, but it's like, all right, well

(34:52):
we've now got two putts to win. But yeah, when
she rolled it in, I mean it was probably fitting
that she rolled it in as well, rather than just
dollied it up to a foot or whatever then tapped
it in.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Did she say anything afterwards? Because she looked I mean
I watched it. She looked very emotional. It looked like
you understood what it meant. Did she say anything?

Speaker 3 (35:12):
No, I don't think she could speak. I mean she
had tears streaming down her face. I think I had
I had a little sweary word with you legend in there,
But yeah, no, she never she never said much. I mean,
it was just it was just mental. I mean then
even afterwards, I mean the whole because obviously it's not
the normal golf tournament where they go in and sign
their scorecard, they come out and they get the trophy.

(35:33):
I mean, you've got kind of maybe that fifteen twenty
minute period where they go and they get their you know,
their track suits on and they come out and it's
neat that you know this the first time. Well no,
I saw the ceremony in Tokyo, but obviously to have
a player up there that I've just helped, it's it's
a pretty neat feeling.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
I was gonna ask, it's got to be a different celebration, Yeah,
the win an Olympic gold medal than it is to
win a tournament.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well so that happened. Then the dude,
Greg Thorpe that was with us, he's the high performance
manager from New Zealand for Golf, and he was like,
right now, we need to go to the New Zealand house.
So we end up getting in this van after she's
done her media or whatever, and we're in this van
and there was I think he was a Kiwi journalist maybe,
and he had his laptop and we're standing there or

(36:17):
we're sitting in this van driving forty minutes into Paris
and he's got the high jump on because one of
the key we guys was in the final of the
high jump. So we're sitting there watching that we just
won a golf tournament and everybody's worried about this guy
winning a gold medal. I'm like, this is kind of
a little bit weird. I was like, but it's kind
of cool, Like I can get used to this.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
So then you guys go to the New Zealand house
and there's all the New Zealand athletes there.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
There was I think it was a lot of sponsors
that help obviously pay for the Olympic stuff. There was
I believe there was two or three of the athletes there.
You know, they they sing a song when Lydia goes in,
they do the hack out right in front of us,
which is really cool. And then yeah, like everybody's taking
pictures with the medal like it was really neat. It

(36:58):
was kind of like, all right, I was like, this
is what's sports is about. It's not about you know,
it's not about the check it's not about anything like that.
Like this is the probably the purest form of golf
you get other than the Solheim Cupp or the Ryder
Cup or whatever it was neat Then I sat there
at ten past eleven, eating a curry and drinking a corona.
I was like, this is this is a little bit odd.
I don't normally be well gone by night.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Did you try on the metal?

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Yeah? I wore it. The thing's heavy, really heavy.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Everybody says they're really really heavy.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah. Like I was like, I remember when she was
walking from press up to she had to go and
do someone else. I think Molly, the commissioner of the
LPGA tour. She wanted to present her with something for
getting into the Hall of Fame. And she's walking up
and I was like, can I just have a quick
look at it before you go in there? She's like
here where? So she put it on my neck and
I was like, holy crap, this thing is super.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Heavy, amazing. Onto the Women's British Open, Uh Saint Andrew's.
I mean, Marina Alex was messaging me all week about
she was just saying it's just so cool. I mean
there are there are majors, there are open championship, and
then there are open championships. At St. Andrew's. Uh yeah,

(38:03):
it's just personally. I know it might sound controversial. I
wish they'd play it at St Andrews every year. Yeah,
I wish they would just leave, certainly for the men.
I just wish they'd leave the Open Championship at St. Andrews,
the home of golf. Leave it there. Such a great
golf course. You know, you make that turn and you
come back into the city. It's it's a magical place. Obviously,

(38:27):
she went into that week playing well. What was the
week like? As the week progressed, did you guys have
a feeling that she was on the cusp of doing something,
you know, really unique and really really special.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah, And I kind of thought even before we went there,
I was like it might take a little bit of
pressure off kind of off the tee as like, as
you know, you've been there plenty of times, I'm sure
like the fairways are pretty wide, but there are a
lot of bunkers that you kind of need to avoid
that kind of are on the left of every hole,
and it's it's almost one of those golf courses where
if you kind of play the hole as it's meant

(39:01):
to be played, it can be very very easy. But
that's also you're flirting with a trouble. But then if
you start hitting it left, like the angles into the
greens aren't very good. And the way that the wind
was like, it was like the front line was pretty
much hard off the left, whether it was slightly in
or slightly dying every day. But the it was almost like, right, okay,
we need to try and get it in the middle
of our fairway, Like if we can get it as

(39:21):
close to the middle of our fairway every day, because
I mean some of those fairways are fifty sixty seventy.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Miles and what people, if you've never played Saint Andrews,
you can miss it off the tee going out on
the front nine and coming back on the back of
you can miss it as far left as you want. Yeah,
that's got one hundred yards left of the fairway, and
you're still going to be unless you go into a
bunker or you get unlucky to go into some you know,

(39:47):
gores for or heather, you're probably going to have a
lie from the fairway. The problem is the angle you're
coming in from is just going to be.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Horrendous, exactly. And that's the thing, Like I remember Lydia
had played there in thirteen and I can't remember what
hole we were playing, and she kind of looked back
and like, say, we're playing like fifteen or whatever it is.
I mean, and there's bunkers that you can't even see
off the tee. We can see them because we have
a yardage book and obviously I've walked to golf course
et cetera or whatever. But it's like when you look
back and it's like that bunker shouldn't even be on

(40:18):
this hole, but it's like in the middle of whatever
fairway you're playing, because it's actually a bunker that's actually
meant to have gone or it looks like it was
going the other way. So yeah, I mean, we just
we had a really good game plan. Again, it was
kind of similar to Paris. It was like as the
week went on, it was like when we were just
hanging around, hanging around. Then obviously again in that final
day and I remember somebody or saying to me on

(40:39):
the Saturday night, They're like, uh, you're probably hoping that
it's not windy tomorrow, and I'm like, I hope it's
really windy tomorrow. It's like, because we played really good
for three days in fairness for the first two days
we got the best of the draw. I mean, that's
another thing when it comes to the Open is that.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
You always have to get the right side of the draw.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I have to get the luck in the draw. Like
we played on Thursday, I think we only we maybe
had like four or five with very little wind compared
to what they've been in the morning. Then on the
Friday morning, I mean we literally played the hole the
back nine with very little wind. Then you make the
turn and it starts howling when you're on one. But
then on Saturday we played it in the wind all

(41:14):
day and I was like, I hope it's really windy,
because then you know, and as you know, it's like
you don't really need to miss a hole a shot
very badly when it's that windy, and it just gets exaggerated.
But she had basically been hitting her lines off the
tees and I was like, if we can just keep
doing that, you know, we're we're going to be fine.
Then I mean you get round to I mean with
the wind that strong, you get round to like seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven,

(41:37):
then twelve, and it feels like you're in a wind tunnel.
It's like little micro climate it's like it's howling, And
it was like it was almost the same thing every day.
It's like, okay, like let's get through the first six holes,
kind of hang on to your hat a little bit.
Once you get to seventy, get round to thirteen. Then,
because she plays a little cap I was like, I

(41:58):
was never really that fearpole on the back nine because
it was like we had good targets. She was hitting
good shots off of tea and I'm like, if we
can just keep hitting it in the fairway, like she's
capable of hitting it close and making a couple of birdies,
and that was it. Then it wasn't really as she said,
it was probably the same for me. I didn't realize
that we were tied for the lead until she had
that three foot or on sixteen on Sunday, So I
was just.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Gonna ask, is she a scoreboard watcher? Are you a
scoreboard watcher?

Speaker 3 (42:21):
I look, she looks. We never really ever talk about
it because at the end of the day, it doesn't
really matter where you are, like you still have to
stand there and execute the shot. I know that some
caddies and players, I mean I know that Anna in
the past has said to me, you know, where do
we stand?

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Like?

Speaker 3 (42:33):
That was kind of actually one thing when we were
in COVID in Arkansas when I was Caddy and Farannah
there was no scoreboards, but we were a look at
her phone to look at the scores, and I actually,
I'll take the blame for that one. I actually never
told her where she stood with about four holes to go,
and she said she told me afterwards. She's like, it
wouldn't have made a difference. She's like, but it would
obviously be nice to know. So I think all of
them look, but like I never ever bring it up, like, Okay,

(42:55):
we'll maybe if we were one or two back with
three holes to be to go, or I'd be like, okay,
look we kind of maybe need to take a little
bit more of a risk here there. But when you're
when you're in that position of tied for the lead
or that close to the lead with especially with seventeen,
it's just like you've just got to stand there and
now show you don't really need to be thinking about Okay,
well you know, I don't need to have a bad

(43:16):
one here because we're tied for the lead.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Everybody has seen the seventy te shot at St. Andrews,
where you've got to go basically over the corner of
the hotel. They've seen it on TV, but if you've
never stood up and had to hit that shot, but
in competition, yeah, getting the line and where the wind
is and how much the wind is going to affect it,
that to me has got to be a caddy nightmare

(43:40):
when you're sitting back there because you're basically staring at
this big giant building that, depending on where the wind is,
the line can sometimes be. You're basically hitting it over
the building and you're like, no, no, that's gonna be fine.
That's gonna be fine. That's gonna be fine. And you
get down there and it just never looks like it's
going to be in the fair one.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, yeah, no it is. And especially and it was like,
I've played Saint Andrews maybe ten or eleven times before,
and I knew what my line would have been from
obviously the further back to you or whatever. But when
you're standing off to the side and it's like this
ball takes off and you're like, is that going exactly
where she's looking like, because obviously the angle skewed, and
it's like but she hit it. She hit it pretty

(44:21):
much exactly where she was looking on that T show.
Every time. I think the furthest left we would have
been would have been like left half of the fairway.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
You guys never missed the fairway.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
No, we were in the fairway on that hole every
day they.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Hit the seventeenth fairway in a major championship at Saint
Andrews is for four days because there's so much chance there. Right,
you could hit an absolute perfect one and it hits
the mound and goes hits it sideways and you are you've.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Got no shot exactly and it sounds stupid, but like
there is a lot more room there right, but like
left is actually death. Everybody thinks that left is okay.
But left's fine if you want to hit it short
at the green, but you have you've literally gotten like
there's not really a hole or there's not really a
good chance of making par from that left rough it's
not very thick, but like you have zero angle, Like

(45:10):
the only thing that's staring at you is short at
the green or the road.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
And on Sunday they're going to tuck the pin if
you miss it left, they're going to tuck the pin
over the road hole bunker. So now you know, if
you go you hit it in there, you're making X.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah exactly, you're probably like you might have a putt
for four, you're probably making five. And if you're not
making five, you're probably making a six or seven.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
But I think that's a great that hole and that
hole on Sunday, isn't It is an example of if
you want to win the golf tournament. There are times
in major champions but I think every player goes through this.
You've seen it on TV, but that is okay, if
we want to win the golf tournament, we have to

(45:51):
make a par on this hole. And the mindset. I
don't think people realize that are listening realized how difficult
that mindset is because you're always attacked, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack.
But sometimes when you know all you have to do
is make a par when you go into that not defense.

(46:13):
So I guess that's the question is the county When
you say, okay, we are going to play for par,
it is easy to think of that as a defensive strategy,
like the prevent defense they were in team sports in
basketball football, What does the prevent defense prevent you from winning.
Every time you go into the prevent defense, it seems
like the team loses, right. So when you're in that situation,

(46:36):
you're trying to talk her into the smart play and say, listen,
left is fine. Short is in the road hole bunker.
We're making bogy or double from there. Yeah, front right
to that pin, we're not going to be able to
get it close. Left is the play. How do you
convey that and see that as a positive and play

(46:59):
of aggressively but conservatively because I think that's a balance
that a lot of players struggle with. You know, conservative
target but it's something I say all the time, conservative
targets but committed aggressive swing to conservative targets. The big
difference between being aggressive and reckless. But I think that's

(47:22):
the trap that a lot of players, specifically when you
are trying to break ninety one hundred and eighty for
the first time, just don't be reckless. You still be aggressive,
but committed swings to conservative targets. That process, How did
you guys go through that process?

Speaker 3 (47:41):
The first two days of pins were on I don't know,
I can't remember what they were on, but they were
on the front right part of that green and we
had I kind of remember, I think we had five
iron both times. I mean, normally we would probably have
hit four hybrids. So it was like right on the
limit of whether it was going to land up top
or maybe not up top, but like right on the
rest of that hill on the front right of the green.

(48:02):
And it was just like, like, just keep it right
like we can. We cannot hit this golf club onto
the road like that. When the pin's on the right
hand side, I'm gonna hit it in the bunker. It's like,
just keep it right in the flag. You know, we
cannot hit this long. So but if you hit it
good or it gets a bounce, you know, a links golf'slike,
I mean every now and again you get the old
bounce and it goes some stupid distance or whatever. And
I was like, the bounce is not gonna affect us

(48:23):
that badly here. So the first two days we were
kind of short, right, she hit two good lag puts
up there. I mean, we made part there four days
and then.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
You sprint, yeah the next hole if you're making par
there every day.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yeah. Then on the third day, that was when it
was tucked right behind the bunker, I mean and I've
played that pin position before in the Saint Andrew's Links Trophy,
and I don't think I hit it left at that point.
I was probably reckless and went at the flag. But
it's like, again, it's like plate your strengths. I think
that's where they are a lot better than obviously your
average golfer is, because the strength of Lydia is our

(48:57):
short game. I mean, she can get it up and
down out a ball washer. So it's like that was
kind of what I was saying to her, was like, look,
let's just hit this one left. You're gonna have twenty yards.
But if you hit it on the front right part
of the green, you're either going to have to chip
it from there, you're gonna land it on a downslope.
You're gonna have maybe ten feet. Like if you've got
twenty yards with a lob wedge in your hand, you
could chip that in. So it's like you're you're essentially

(49:17):
taking five out of the equation. Then on the final day,
it was kind of tucked just over the slope to
the right of the bunker, so you're now that was
probably the hardest pin because obviously you're bringing in short
right or short left. If it's like even if it's
short left and it's not in the bunker, I mean,
that's no gimme up and down. If it's in the bunker,
it's not an easy up and down. And if you
hit it long, it's into the road. So I'm sure
anybody that watched on the coverage, I mean, it was

(49:39):
pissing it down with rain and the wind picked up,
and it was it was one of those I can't
remember what number we had, but it was like it
was way shorter than what a three wood was. And
she was like, do I just punch you know, just
flight a three wood in there? And I'm like yeah,
and she I think she said it in her press
conference afterwards. It was like she had a club in
her hand that she couldn't go long. It was like
there was no way that she could get that essentially
past the flag.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Yeah, so that shot, she has to hit that shot
in that situation.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Yeah, And that was the thing, like as I said,
I think she said it in the press conference afterwards,
like she literally had a club that she couldn't hit long. Like,
So for that one for us short right, same as
the front first two pins, I mean that was kind
of where you wanted to hit it. I mean, and
she hit this unbelieva like I'm standing there with the
umbrella trying to peek my head out to see. I mean,
she hits this unbelievably low three wood, and as soon

(50:27):
as it came off, I was like, as long as
that doesn't kick left, like, we're gonna have a pot
at Bertie. Like, I don't know how long that put's
going to because it might have just cress it up.
It might have ended up getting up and coming back down.
I was like, but we're gonna have a chance at Birdie.
I mean, and it's obviously crept up there, kind of
ran a little left and it was It was good.
I actually thought that she was probably gonna hold that pot.
But I mean it's not It's not an easy green

(50:48):
hole any kind of put on. I mean, there's a
lot more slope there again than people actually realize when
you're watching on TV.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
So then you go to eighteen, Did you guys know
where you stood?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah? I think we well, yes, we would both after
we were all well, after we finished sixteen that we
were tied for the lead. Yeah, then there was a
big leader board to the like behind and to the
left of seventeen Green.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
I can't think of a better place to stand up
in a major championship. I mean, going back into the
town of Saint Andrew's, I mean, it is magical if
you if you get a chance to even go there,
if you get a chance to play, But to be
on the eighteenth hole, I mean, were you aware of

(51:29):
that we were at least, or were you so in
the moment when at any point when you were walking
down there did you kind of go wow?

Speaker 2 (51:37):
No?

Speaker 3 (51:37):
I never did. I mean, that's the thing is like
I think when you're in the heat of the moment,
it's just kind of like, all right, well, we've just
got a job to do. I don't think it ever,
or I don't think it's sunk in yet, But I mean,
to win it Saint Andrews is cool. I remember saying
to her afterwards, once everything had happened and we went
she was down getting pictures on the Swilkin Bridge, and
I was like, right, I'm gonna leave you, because she
had a bunch of other stuff to do and they

(51:58):
were obviously going for dinner. I left there on the bridge,
photographers everywhere, and I was like I said to her.
I was like, only legends win here. I was like,
this is literally where legends win, as like the old
courses Andrews. I was like, and you are now or
you were a legend anyway, I was like, but you're
you're now a legend. So I hope that she kind
of took it like I took it in. Then I
wouldn't have took it in at the time that we

(52:18):
were that we were doing it.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
How many drinks did you have on the Sunday night?
Give me a tally? Come on, where'd you go?

Speaker 3 (52:26):
First?

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Of all, we got a top where'd you go?

Speaker 3 (52:28):
I went to Russex. We went to the rooftop restaurant
in Russex, had some dinner there, rememb we had three
or four beers there. Then we went to the vic.
Have you ever been to the Vica?

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (52:38):
Yeah, I've been to the VIC.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
And I walk in there and I ordered a pint
attendants in the gimme and like the old school mug.
And I've still got my ring year on. I've got
like all my stuff from the golf course or whatever.
And when we were down in Troon the week before,
I'd seen that they'd been serving tenants and those like
Stella Attua goblets, and I was like, weird, It's like
that doesn't really fit tenants. So of course this chick
gives me the my pint attendants in this mug, and
I was like, I'm having this and she's like, no,

(53:01):
you're not, and I was like, yeah, I'm my buddy.
It was with me. He was like, he just won
the openings and Andrews just give him the mug and I
was like, I'm taking it. I was like, I don't care.
I was like, and I might even get you rinsed out,
and she's like, you can have it, but I'm not
rinsed it out for you. So I ended up walking
out of there with two So somebody from the vix
liston has like, apologies, I've got two year glasses.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
So what's next for Lyddy? I mean, obviously, you know,
she's twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
She's saying she's probably not going to play golf much longer,
you know, three years until she's thirty eight years since
she won her last major.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
She's now won Olympic gold medal.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Do you think getting into the Hall of Fame will
take some pressure off? Do you think that was weighing
on her mind.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
I think it probably was at the start when I
first started caddying four, and I mean i'm speaking for
or now. I think it was at the start. Then
when we won in Orlando, then obviously got beat the
falling week in a playoff by Nelly. I think that
she maybe felt a kind of a little bit like
her chance came and gone. But then I think she
said since that like her her mom and her her

(54:03):
husband had said to her, like it doesn't really matter
about the Hall of Fame. I mean, and that was
the thing. Like I like, as you said earlier, like
the criteria to get in the LPGA Hall of Fame
is insanity. Like I looked at I like every time
I would go out there, I'm like, she is a
Hall of Famer. Like there's nobody out here that has
as many points or whatever it is to get into
that Hall of Fame. It's like she is literally a

(54:24):
Hall of Famer. And like I never ever said to her,
but I was like, if they change it, you're gonna
get in any way. I know you don't want to
backdoor it that way, but like they would probably have
changed it at some point, and she would have got in.
I don't think she would have really have accepted it
that way, and she didn't have to. Well she doesn't
have to now, but yeah, I think that there probably
is a little bit of pressure off. I mean, she
could go on a crazy run for you know, the

(54:44):
rest of this year, twenty seven years old exactly. She's
twenty seven, I mean, And that's what I said on Sunday.
I was like, it's not like she's thirty seven, and
it's like she's forty. It's not like she's like dwindling
down and she only has like a year left to play.
Like she she literally could probably take a if she
wanted to, then come back and play again if she
really wanted to. I don't think she will. But yeah, no,

(55:06):
I honestly don't know. I haven't really spoke to her
over the last couple of days. I've just kind of
left her. I mean, I know she was going back
to San fran on the Friday morning. I'm back at
my parents' house in Scotland, so I've kind of I
don't really have the great service and I've just kind
of I've just been trying to take it all in.
But it's absolutely nuts.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
But yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
I mean, she still has a lot of good golf
to play. I mean, I don't think anybody needs to
be worried about her running off into the sunset. Yet.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Lastly, your goal growing up in Aberdeen, Scotland was to
play professional golf.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
You had those moments like everybody does.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Where you're a kid and you're hole in a putt
to win the Open Championship or stuff like that. It
didn't turn out like that for you, but you've now
been on the bag for two Open Championships at arguably
that other than maybe true Carnustian, Saint Andrews Okay, Mirfield
is probably those are the four.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Yeah, you couldn't script it.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Any better, being from Scotland on the bag to caddy
and have an Open Championship win at Carnoustie, and then
to have one at the home of golf Saint Andrews.
Has it sunk in for you personally? Have you allowed
yourself to kind of congratulate yourself and go, man, this
is pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
No, And I don't know why, but it's it's almost
I don't know. I suppose I take a little bit
of the mentality of what I was like as a
player and my caddian and it's like, I don't get
me wrong, it is very special. I mean they're the
two that's probably the only two golf tournaments that the
women will play that will be anywhere remotely close to
where I grew up and I play. I played Carnoustie

(56:42):
on Monday after Saint Andrew's actually midday and I walked
up on the first tea and the starter was like, oh,
have you played here before? And I was like, yeah,
a long time ago. And he's like, well when was that?
And I was like it was twenty two years ago
in the British Boys. And he's like that's a long
time and he's like, oh yeah. And it was actually
Anna Nordquist Sea time. She couldn't make it. She was
going to Boston, her manager set up and he's like,

(57:03):
he's like, you've been very lucky. He's like, it was
meant to be on an Nordquist that was played today
and I was like, well, I actually caddied for here
in twenty twenty one. When she won. Was like and
he's like oh, and I was like yeah, so no,
I don't and I don't think like a lot of
people close to me get annoy you may because I
don't ever really take any of the credit for the success,
and I don't think that what I do is that difficult,

(57:25):
and I just it's just a pleasure to to work
for good players. It's a pleasure to watch good golf.
And I've just been very, very lucky that I've managed
to win probably two of the biggest tournaments in the
women's game, basically on my doorstep. I mean, it's pretty neat.
It is pretty neat.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
One day.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
I'm sure I'm going to sit back when I'm in
Saint Pete long time from now, and I'll be having
a beer and I'll maybe shed a little tear and
be excited about it. But I mean, it's like, you
know what, it's like, all these all these guys that
you work with, It's like once they won one tournament,
they get to the next. It's like, it's not that
they forget about it. But you've got a job to do.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
You're gonna get the Olympic tattoo.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
I might do. I might do. Know that. I again,
I want not massive proponent for the for the golf
and the Olympics, but I'll maybe I'll maybe make an exception.

Speaker 4 (58:14):
I mean, come on, man, you got to do it.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
Yeah, no, I probably will. I probably will. That'll be
my nice little memento.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Well, as much as I know that you wanted to
play and we worked pretty hard to try and get
you to reach your dreams, I'm proud of you.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Man. It's it's been fun to watch.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Uh. These moments are special when you're in them, and
when you're a part of them, it's hard to to
understand what has happened. But we are so lucky to
be around great players, to have an opportunity to share
in their success, to have an opportunity to be a
part of their success. Listen, we all know that, you know,

(58:54):
in the world that we live in, they could do
it without us. Yeah, right, they are the best players
in the world. They could win tournaments, they could win
majors without our involvement. But it's also important. It's something
you know, my father's always said. Yeah, you know, I
look at Tiger's success. He could have done all of
this without me. I just know he didn't. And yeah,
I think it's it's important to remember that. Yeah, I mean,

(59:17):
they can always do it without you. They can always
win tournaments. Their talent is amazing. It's great, but they
don't do it without you, and you are a part
of it. Are you the reason? Hell no, they're the reason, right,
we all know they're the reason. But yeah, we do play,
and you'd have played an enormous part in the success

(59:37):
of both, you know, Anna, But I think Lydia's this year.
I think the reset of getting somebody like you on
the bag who had some experience of playing, who could
make things on the golf course simpler, to make it
less pressurized. I'm proud of you, mate, You've done a
great job and I think you're going to have more
continued success and hopefully we'll celebrate with some alcohol soon.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
We will, for sure, I'll come down for a lesson.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Please please tell me your your mother has overloaded you
with square sausage sandwiches and you know, all the good.

Speaker 3 (01:00:14):
Stuff Macaroni prize, bridy sausage roles. That's the only thing
I missed, because obviously I live in Florida, know, And
it's like, that's the only thing I missed, Like just
all the all the Scottish crap bakery goods. I like
all the savory goods, like even the candy, Like I
order iron Brew off Amazon like every week when I'm
at home, so iron Brew, I don't really miss that much.
But yeah, yeah, all the all the square sausage and

(01:00:34):
all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
It's been good, great to talk to you, mate. We'll
look forward to seeing you soon. Travel safe.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Thanks God.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
So that was Paul Kormack. And listen for those of
you that listen to the pod on a regular basis.
I try and talk all the time about minimizing mistakes,
playing to your strengths as a player, trying to eliminate
the big numbers. And you just heard a guy who's
on the bag for Lydia coach. He just won an
Olympic gold medal. She just won her third major after

(01:01:02):
an eight year drought. He talked a lot about she
plays her strengths, she tries to limit the damage and
just tries to play smart. And I just think that
is something that everyone that's listening can take the heart
with their own game. You know, make a good bogie,
you don't have to go for the hero shot. Play
to what your strengths are. Know what your strengths are,

(01:01:24):
and that's what the best players in the world do. Yes,
they hit better shots than we do. Of course they do.
They're the best players in the world, but they also
limit the damage. They manage their missues, they manage their
mistakes better, and I think Paul did a great job
at talking about kind of the process that Lydia goes through.
And you know, anytime you can listen to a caddy,
that caddy's for a great player that's winning big tournaments,

(01:01:47):
I think it's very unique insight because I think caddies
have the best seat for professional golf. They're up close
with their player, and I really enjoyed that. I'm proud
of Paul. I consider him a friend and a really
really cool talk So I want to thank everyone for listening, Rate, review,
subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.